| IVOD_ID |
168956 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168956 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-29T11:37:53+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-29T11:56:11+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6301273cb2dfee84c37d7204c761d7f5c71d97a3abd7207418096c5e05de57c6e744949ebbc1455f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
廖偉翔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:37:53 - 11:56:11 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）
審查
一、委員羅廷瑋等43人擬具「空氣污染防制法第二十七條、第二十八條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。
二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「空氣污染防制法第三十條條文修正草案」案。
【詢答及處理】
【4月29日上午9時起及下午2時30分起為一次會】） |
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謝謝主席先請彭部長請彭部長部長好部長好部長我想要先請教依據我國的空氣污染防治法的第五條跟第六條的規定這個三級防治區白話文就是空品不達標區就是空氣品質不好的地方要求是什麼 |
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我現在條文是不是請我們市長有沒有條文好沒關係我跟部長說基本上五條和六條意思就是說要讓空污要減量那在這個防治區裡面呢空氣品質未達國家標準必須要採取較嚴格的污染管制措施好然後這五六條是連動的比如說就是要要求一定規模者應該採取最低可達成的排放率控制技術好那再來我想要請問一下部長 |
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雲林縣目前在PM10 PM2.5跟臭氧等項目上是不是屬於三級的防治區是是嘛對那麥寮電廠是不是屬於三級防治區的寄存污染源是是嘛是是不是是好那我就要再請教喔基本環境基本法的第三條題集第三條題集如果經濟對環境有不良影響之餘者應該以何者優先 |
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環境保護以環境為優先嘛所以我現在PowerPoint也有給你看好那最後我就請教一下針對2026年的4月份這個經濟部責成台電短期調度民營麥寮電廠1號與3號燃煤機組執行為期三個月的發電任務那雲林縣本身是列為三級的防治區而且台大公衛研究也指出 |
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六清周邊的高曝露組包含台西麥寮居民癌症的發生率為其他雲林鄉鎮的1.29倍在這裡1.29倍所以已經符合所謂的環境經濟對於環境有不良影響以環境優先且空污不達標區寄存的固定污染源應該減量 |
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那如今要重啟這個機組請問一下環境部的立場是什麼這個事情我們當聽到消息的時候我們有請經濟部跟台電公司要審慎評估它重啟的必要性還有它的時機啦那如果有啟動的話那我們當然會責成地方的環保主管機關就是雲林縣環保局然後嚴密的監督它空污排放的數據因為目前來說的話據我所知他們有承諾一個量例如說它全年總用的量所以你的態度是說 |
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你們會嚴格監督這樣?是嚴格監督那怎麼嚴格監督?第一個是他不能超過例如說他們當然有嚴重空污的時候他應該要優先把它剪下來然後第二個是他如果說超多排的話但是部長這個我們前面有講了這幾個法條這個態度會不會是太 |
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213.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
不太屬於環境部應該有的立場你是不是應該要更因為剛剛已經講到你的經濟迫害這個環境那這個也是三級的防治區喔你的態度是不是應該要再堅定一點呢這個問題我舉例我禮拜一在日本的時候也跟幾個他們相關的教員討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
214.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
240.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
大家的問題就是說遇到一個挑戰就是整個中東的這個戰事的危機這個可能的能源的這個要多一點這個游刃有餘的一個方式所以我們我們也體會到這一點但是我剛剛前面這個環境基本法第三條不就是說如果經濟經濟的發展也讓環境受到迫害的話環境應該優先嘛所以我要提的不是單一事件喔部長這個路透也報導這個卡達的LNG的設施受攻擊後 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
242.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
262.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
約17%的出口產能受到影響而且它修復需要3到5年這對於我們未來可以預期現在政府一定會像你剛剛說的這些理由去重啟所謂的燃煤發電機組的可能性是很高的那今天麥寮發生了這樣的事明天也有可能是其他的發電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
263.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
282.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那事實上過去也不曾真正的去思考也不曾遇到這個火力發電廠重啟的問題所以我去問了一下你們環境部相關的一直沒有所謂相關的評估或重啟程序的依據那現在就會變成是經濟部想要重啟會需不需要問過環境部的意見你的意見他們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
284.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
311.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
他會理你嗎你有沒有什麼相關的約束力因為他的這個現在他2號已經關掉了1號跟3號他的許可期是可以到117年6月跟到116年12月也就是最快一張是到明年的12月所以他現在而且他現在的使用的時間只有三個月就是夏天那夏天的情況下其實對於我們這個雨下的比較多所以對於環境的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
314.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
333.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我沒有辦法解釋這樣子重啟的狀況他有沒有需要問你那你有沒有知情有沒有需要被查你有沒有任何的手段可以去好好的保護百姓保護這個環境因為會問這個事情是因為其實去年監察院去年的監察院就已經有糾正了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
334.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
350.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
賣寮的一號燃煤機組研議案整體的作業不合程序倉促混亂研議理由未服事實又經濟部沒有評估政府承諾跳票的爭議更沒有跟地區的居民充分溝通因此要求政府相關部門改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
351.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
377.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那過去呢我們有合理的能源規劃所以可能過去也沒有想到重啟的問題那也一直不認為是會發生的事情但是麥寮一號機組原定是2024年的5月31號正式除役然而在合約到期的前夕台電公司跟經濟部又迅速的核准他延役至2025年的12月31號那他合約的修改簽合也只用了一天那今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
378.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
406.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
今天經濟部又一指的行政命令就要在麥寮重啟5月到7月要重啟發電那部長我想這個事情已經不是單純的一次性的能源調度喔而且連去年被監察院糾正程序倉促後今年的重啟案又重蹈覆轍依舊是程序倉促溝通不足請問環境部至今有沒有收到任何的任務你在這件事情裡面你的角色到底是什麼有沒有被要求說提出環境影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
407.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
418.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
空污排放或者居民健康風險或替代調度方案的意見還是整件事情其實經濟部講就好了你們就是看到新聞知道說那我會嚴格監督監測就被動的背書請問一下你這部分你有沒有想過 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
422.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
451.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個部分按照現在的法規裡面是經濟部他提出這個計畫他要獲得雲林縣政府的同意的許可所以雲林縣政府是有條件的同意那當然啦我們事後也知道這樣的一個情況不過呢他其實當時他們的協議裡面我們也知道說他的用煤量有要受到嚴格的控管不能超過114年當年停機前的一個水準部長你現在的這個論述就很像是你知道這件事情但是主要是經濟部跟地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
452.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
469.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
環境部的角色我們的角色就是希望說他們在這個要把這個重啟的必要性跟這個他的這個時機然後他如果有空污的影響的話其實一定要把它降到最低這是我們的工作部長我想今天經濟部的作為跟你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
470.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
491.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
剛剛我講到的空氣污染防治法跟環境基本法都有衝突啊我從開中銘我前面幾題就已經問到那你們作為主管機關你們沒有做出任何的動作也任由這樣子經濟部這樣子一指命令就蹂躪說這個立法院通過而且是你們環境部主管的法條啊所以我們希望你應該更有態度而且你應該去執法 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
492.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
513.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你應該要去強硬的執行這些法條啊所以部長我知道你剛剛有講啊你說這個有可能有什麼許可範圍內啊沒有立即違法的問題但是我想環評這件事情你有沒有需要去環評有沒有需要去思考說他重啟的話因為這個麥寮電廠也是25年前的老舊的燃煤機組啊所以他對於環境的影響到底是什麼然後對於這個當時的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
517.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
530.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
環境背景跟現在我們的淨零碳排的目標也完全不同那現在這幾年也有這個所謂的淨零排放為主流的概念所以你現在也欠缺明確的法令依據所以你好像沒有任何的角色可以做是不是就是目前以法條來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
532.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
553.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
基本上當然我們是希望是說能夠減少越少越好但是基本上現在有一個這個中東戰爭的一個危機的事件那經濟部有這樣的需求他們必須要做好該有的一個溝通那我們是做好空氣品質還有各種的數據的一個監督跟檢查部長其實現在就是重啟其實是欠缺明確的法令依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
554.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
576.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
然後呢也會跟現行的空污法以及環境基本法有衝突的地方那請教一下部長那經濟部用緊急採購就可以凌駕空污法跟環境基本法嗎那環境部是不是應該跟經濟部商討修改電業法增加未來的授權的依據然後呢在這個重啟的過程中你們到底要做到哪些事情是不是應該要去討論這個我們會來研議一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
580.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
601.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個不能只有研議啦部長 這個是很重要的事情因為一定 我剛剛已經講到了 現在你們說各國可能有面臨到相關的問題那但是各國環境部 環境上面的角色是什麼要不要再做一個很嚴格的幫人民把關 幫環境把關因為會導致 所以另外就是會導致致癌的一級的這個致癌物 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
604.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
616.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個本病皮在賣電還品的時候並沒有被納入完整的空氣品質跟健康風險管理的框架那這個東西在歐盟也在2004年他就有納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
616.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
636.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以我國也至今還沒有針對這個本病皮制定相關的排放標準所以我想要強調的事情這個環境的評估不是一核定就是終身應該你們要去適時的介入滾動的調整而且針對這些淨零碳排無煤加原為主流倉益的現在應該要有更嚴謹的檢核機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
638.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
659.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以要請環境部在過程中要具備監督者的立場要幫我們的環境幫我們下一代把關所以我想要請問所以第一環境部是不是要去討論一級致癌物這個本病皮未來有沒有規劃納入環境影響評估或者是空氣污染排放標準的規定範疇這是第一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
660.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
688.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
然後第二件事是針對重啟的機組你應該要重啟的相關的評估以及健康風險空污監測的分析報告在重啟後也要提出一份環境影響的回顧評估告訴國人這段時間對於環境的影響也確保人民知情跟監督的權利可不可以好第二項的部分我們會來研究說怎麼樣的去做表達那第一項的部分的話就有關那個環境中 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
690.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
709.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
BAP的部分我們有在做監測但是有關排放標準的部分還是要看各國目前現在的排放的監測技術跟方法我們會後續來評估那我問你歐盟說在2004年就納管了那我們咧你有沒有去了解和研究那納管了應該也是會有相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
710.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
736.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
因為那個方法還是要轉回我們國家的標準方法另外一個就是那你有去研究過嗎你有去了解過嗎我們有去了解但是美國目前沒有這樣的一個排放標準那歐盟呢你怎麼選一個選一個好像你覺得沒有因為我們會綜合評估各國的這個情況那當然越完整對我們標準是越好那你現在決定要不要去你有去研議過了嗎我們會來做後續的研議所以前面有做過研議我們有先做環境中的監測那你們現在覺得要做要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
739.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
756.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
因為這個監測也要看他對應的可行的技術跟可行的評估方法這所以我們後續會來做評估那你可不可以這個本席給本席辦公室一個月的時間給我們報告可以可以嗎針對這個這個部分這個一級致癌物納入我們的範疇好還有第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
757.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
776.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
部長第二個,這個部分你可以答應嗎?這個我們會來做該有的風險性的評估因為這個也需要一些時間做大氣擴散的模擬還有它的排放多少的量我們應該要趕快先開會去討論它現在重啟的過程中你到底要扮演什麼角色,要做哪些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
778.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
788.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這部分是不是也可以請部長在一個月內給本席辦公室這個如果要做一個模擬調查的話可能真的需要一兩個月的時間因為這個需要專業的團隊去一個月的時間你至少要有初步的你的哪些節點要去檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
795.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
815.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
然後前中後你要做什麼事情你要做到什麼監督這應該也不用那麼久吧應該一個月至少可以吧就是說整個到完整的一個答案或是一個方法可能要花到兩到三個月當然不是完整你得先有流程你才可以細細做嘛可以可以是不是因為問這件事情是不是只有這個賣寮的個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
817.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
834.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
興達的電廠也有老舊機組研議的問題然後呢剛剛也有討論到台中還有燃煤機組未拆但是呢我們立法院也已經通過2028的無煤中火相關決議那2050的淨零也已經是國家政策方向所以現在的問題就是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
835.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
863.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
從賣掉的案件看到只要中央說供電韌性、能源安全為理由老舊的燃煤機組就可能被重新的調度地方政府若核准操作許可污染的壓力地方扛那如果你不核准又可能被說說影響供電這就是今天的這樣的狀況所以要請教部長未來針對已經除役年限卻又因為供電理由嚴議備轉或短期調度的老舊燃煤機組 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
864.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
889.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
你應該要建立一套最低的環境檢核機制而且你至少應該也要要求排放增量評估健康風險的檢核以及替代調度方案跟與居民溝通的紀錄你是不是應該要要求這些事情這個我們會來研議啦因為這些在蓋之前齁他其實都有做過環境影響評估那現在呢又一個新的一個局勢我們會來研究一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
890.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
918.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
幾年前了對啊那到現在已經差了這麼多你現在的角色應該要積極的介入但是因為這個到底是他們適用於哪一個法規然後什麼樣的條件我們可以來監督我們會來研議一下所以我現在問起來就是我今天整個質詢就是我知道你們根本就沒有準備了我也問過你們環境部你們現在目前就是沒有沒有這些東西所以我才要告訴你你是不是要願意研議一下燃煤發電退場的時程或者是透過剛剛講的修法你要去了解修法專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
919.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
943.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
或者是給地方政府更明確的環境把關的依據這個就是我今天整個主題要告訴你的對 野報委員這個其實是一個突發的中東的局勢的影響沒有人想到的所以這個各國都因應這個突發的一個事情其實部長也不是這樣子喔部長也不是這樣子之前在還沒中東戰爭之前我們已經多次講過我們的能源是有問題能源配比是有國安問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
944.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
955.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那你當初有這個國安問題我們也一直在堅持就是說為什麼你老舊的燃煤機組要拆掉就是因為擔心你到時候又說供電有問題然後要有韌性然後就把老舊機組再重新啟動所以部長這不是今天的問題啊部長我相信以你的這個專業和關心環境的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
962.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
988.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
一個態度你應該更積極有作為因為這個事情真的不是臨時發生的我們之前已經多次的從2024年本席上任以來已經講過很多次這個能源配比的問題影響到環境的問題當然這個是必須我們要跟經濟部一起來討論來面對這個事情但是我們現在這個法規如何設在哪裡做檢核的我們的確要內部要做一些跨部會的討論部長所以我跟你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
989.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1011.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
調度能源是經濟部的權責可是環境部的責任就是要幫我們把關環境和空污所以這個就是跟剛才一樣是一個月內要給本席一個檢討報告嗎初步的檢討報告謝謝好那最後我想要請一下次長還有我們剛剛的能源應該是能源署的署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1018.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1044.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
最後還是要請教一下剛剛上一位我們王玉明委員在質詢的時候有問到這個老舊的一號二號中火的部分你們確定年底會把它拆除我們當新一號機組然後上線了之後我們開始年底之後開始做這個作業就是把老舊的會拆除確定你們可以承諾啟動啟動那多久啟動之後要多久才會完全拆除拆除的時間可能一到 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1046.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1072.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
兩年 一到兩年左右的時間2027年底可以完成拆除一年嗎 因為你今年2026年底開始我們希望說在28年底之前28年底之前那就是因為我們還要拆一個煙囪那個煙囪的話它相當的高那這個必須要有一些安全的問題要去處理所以你承諾要2028年前要把它拆除完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1073.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1093.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
二零二八年前 你說二零二八年底前所以你現在說二零二八年底前 我們現在是希望說在二零二八年底之前把它完成那當然拆除的這個時間如果是可以更順利的話那當然可以提早好那我要請次長承諾一定要做到好不好好謝謝好謝謝 |