| IVOD_ID |
16891 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16891 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2025082628 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-27T14:01:19+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-27T16:02:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:00:41 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/cbbd4ed0b5fcd3a0f14b58179120353a9efa5631727c57cc112bf0b47f4e58e3b14713c3ed82e6dd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-27T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院黨團協商（事由：研商「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別條例第三條、第六條及第九條條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:01:19 - 16:02:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1612.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1612.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
我 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1781.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1783.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我們通知一下那個台灣民眾黨團時間到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1846.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1874.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
好 張祺凱副總召到了好 謝謝黃國昌黃總召也到了好 謝謝各位黨團的總召謝謝各位列席的官員各位工作夥伴新聞界的好朋友今天在開朝野協商之前先給柯建民總召按個讚第一個到現場謝謝柯總召也謝謝各位列席的黨團幹部很辛苦也謝謝各位列席的官員我首先先向各位來介紹今天我們列席的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1875.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1903.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
各部會列席的官員代表財政部的阮次長 歡迎您經濟部的何次長 歡迎您衛福部的邱部長 歡迎您邱部長剪頭髮了 看得好年輕行政院總署的陳副主席長 歡迎您勞動部的陳次長 歡迎您教育部的朱次長 歡迎您法務部的謝副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1905.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1930.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
歡迎您好 謝謝各位我們黨編都已經有都到了還有陸續還有其他黨面黨團的幹部也在路上但是也都有代表在現場所以我們正式開始今日的朝野協商會議我們今天要進行因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別條例修正案的協商要在這裡首先我們請執政黨民進黨柯總召請發言國民黨團請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1937.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1937.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
笑一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1940.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1968.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主席 各位內需官員 各位市長代表 大家好今天是八三結束以後我們開始展開另外一個層面的開始應該是要理性對話來追求國家的發展這是本席在這裡嚴明在先那有關於今天的特別預算的修正的重點我在這裡代表執行長稍作說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1969.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1988.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
本來是5450億多礦裂420億所以達到是5900億那為什麼增加這個450億這個450億是用在什麼地方呢第一個強化電力系統要礦裂200億比如說北市科等等新的產業園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1989.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2010.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第二個當然就是加碼這個都是族群再多匡列40億第三個花花心情總要有一個作為費用匡列10億再下來就是說一流下一階段產業支持方案再匡列200億那這些加起來410億兩個加起來剛好是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2015.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2035.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
是五千九百億我想這個是大家這個國家發展商應該有一個理性對話空間另外在這裡也要提出一個請求就是說上次上禮拜五朝夕時間的時候有講到說預算以外法案有關於這個貨物稅條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2037.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2052.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但是呢 院長到目前為止有九個案子是協商完畢不予協商的總共有九個案子是不是等一下我們都會表格在禮拜五就一起把它通過因為這些都是沒有意見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2055.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2070.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以說我希望禮拜五該通過的預算該通過的法案都能夠通過讓我們這個會議畫下一個美好的Ending以上請各位同仁支持好 謝謝柯總召的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2071.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2091.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
今天真的要幫柯總召第二個點讚溫良恭儉讓 柯總召回來了以前是溫良恭儉 從來不讓謝謝柯總召理性的發言這樣展開理性的討論跟對話我相信對未來黨團的運作院裡面的一些行政立法之間的互動都會大有幫助 謝謝柯總召接下來我們請羅志強 羅首席副書長請發言台灣民眾黨團請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2095.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2119.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好 謝謝主席也謝謝我們兩邊黨團的幹部那其實第一個當然我覺得預算有需求這個用所當用我們也是會支持但是裡面其實有出現幾個問題我先初步點出來待會進到第二輪的部分我想請行政機關也說明一下就是說比方說舉個例子就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2120.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2144.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們現在發現 我先講一個歷史的緣由這個台電過去在長久我們政府執政一面它都是國營事業的金雞母 盈餘都很多到2006年民進黨第一次執政的時候你就會發現台電開始由盈轉虧一直到馬政府執政之後 又讓它由虧轉盈 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2145.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2169.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那等到馬政府卸任之後留下了828億的電價穩定基金給這個新的政府所以還有留錢給大家可是大家看這九年發生了什麼事情這九年來我們撥補了台電三千億那還有所謂的強化韌性電網的五千億這都是拿公務預算來去支應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2170.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2189.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那馬政府時代我就先講那個撥補馬政府時代沒有撥補任何一毛錢給台電所以即便沒有撥補最後還留下828億的電價穩定基金這就是國民黨執政時候的一個國營事業經營效率那就產生一個問題那為什麼民進黨政府竟然要撥補3000億然後還要什麼呢還虧損了超過4500億 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2198.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2226.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那再加上強韌電網的這個計畫五千多億它分十年期嘛那理論上這強韌電網部分當時立法院也支持啊那執行過程當中為什麼我們電網還是這麼脆弱那出現一個最根本的疑惑就是說是不是這個洞它變成某種無底洞那馬政府所做得到不用撥補還留電價穩定基金給新政府而現在卻要撥補三千億 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2228.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2251.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
還虧損四五千億這一點我覺得行政機關可能要說明清楚否則的話你在新增200億的電網這部分的話我會有點懷疑那是不是又是一個放水流的結果對我們立法院在監督預算的部分我覺得可能我們可能必須向選民做說明跟交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2252.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2273.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那另外就是我也不是很懂就是說這個我們還稅漁民普發現金為什麼作業費要10億那我看以前的作業費就是在這個我們的所謂的那個疫後強化經濟及社會韌性全民共享經濟成果的特別預算裡面那他的業務費我看是3億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2274.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2303.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那為什麼今天到了賴清德總統就要失憶呢那還有很多細部的問題我覺得可以先一個一個討論我們也可以先聽聽民眾黨的意見我們到轉移圈來大家來看看聽清緣由之後我們來看說怎麼樣能夠滿足我講說國人對於我們勘警政府荷包把錢用在刀口之上我們這樣的一個審查的一個基準必須向台灣人民交代 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2303.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2329.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好 謝謝羅志強首席副市長的說明在台灣民眾黨的說明之後要請行政部門準備說明現在請黃國昌總召請說明好 謝謝院長喔上一次在議場後方院長針對這件事情召開程序性黨團幹部彼此意見交換的時候其實我們那個時候已經有讓各個黨團以及院長報告過 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2331.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2354.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們對這件事情的不解、困惑跟覺得離譜至極我為什麼會這樣說這個特別條例當初行政院提出版本立法院審議三讀通過七月的時候就已經三讀了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2357.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2385.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
幾乎都是按照行政院的版本通過的除了普發漸進以外除了普發漸進以外幾乎都是按照行政院的版本通過在行政立法彼此的互動上你們送了版本立法院三讀通過接下來該做的事情是什麼就是依照特別條例把你的預算案送來結果我們的行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2386.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2414.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在特別條例過了以後沒有編預算沒有把預算書送來然後我們的卓榮泰繼續在那邊說說普發現金違法違憲違法違憲也不敢提復議啊不是嗎然後送這一個修正草案來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2416.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2440.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
趕鴨子上架好像在野黨的立委不趕快審不趕快照他們的意見過就是在阻擋普發一萬塊的現金怎麼會有這麼荒謬的論述啊現在民進黨政府是覺得反正我掌握了媒體我掌握了側翼要怎麼抹黑要怎麼胡說八道都沒有關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2441.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2467.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
台灣人民會忘記是誰在阻擋發一萬塊的現金嗎台灣人民會忘記是誰說發一萬塊違法違憲嗎會忘記是誰為了這件事沒有順他的意不肯把預算送到立法院來嗎你行政院提的特別條例我立法院三讀通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2468.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2496.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你不就是應該依照立法院通過的特別條例把預算送來嗎結果現在預算不送來竟然是提特別條例的修正草案什麼時候發生過這麼荒謬的事啊還是對於行政院來講反正我現在的伎倆就是你們只要不順我的意我就不送預算書來我就針對你的特別條例再送修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2498.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2506.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你不按照我的意思修正通過我不送預算書來就是在野黨在組黨普發一萬塊怎麼會有一個執政黨是用這麼傲慢這麼囂張近乎無賴的方式在面對這麼嚴肅的議題更何況當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2524.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2552.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
當初在面對高關稅的時候台灣民眾黨黨團的版本我們還幫行政院的版本加碼多給產業一點多給勞工一點多給農漁民一點全部都反映在我們的版本我記得很清楚啊當天表決封殺我們案子的就是民主進步黨就是執政團隊的立法院黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2553.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2580.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
然後現在送一個修正案來說不夠再多給我兩百億我完全看不懂啊那你們當初在封殺台灣民眾黨的案子是在封殺什麼我們在野黨幾乎是在做執政黨的事跟你說這樣可能會不夠多給你一點 你不要你不要把我們的案子封殺掉三讀通過了以後我們作為少數黨我們也是遵照國會的遊戲規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2583.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2602.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們台灣民眾黨8票投我們的版本被封殺了我們也按照民主審議的遊戲規則就接受啦就等你們行政部門送案子來啊結果行政部門預算書不編來現在說啊 不夠我還要再多200億怎麼會有這麼荒謬的事情啊然後說普發現金 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2613.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2640.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
要多編十億來普發現金上一次普發現金的時候蘇貞昌普發現金的時候作業費多少錢行政院不知道嗎決算都出來了還是你們以為現在的立委都很不用功都不會去看過去普發現金作業費花多少錢反正我大手一揮發現金我就是要十億的作業費 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2642.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2671.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
不給我 就是在野黨在阻擋普發現金怎麼會有這麼傲慢的行政團隊啊好 謝謝喔好 謝謝台灣民眾黨團的意見表達接下來行政部門發言完畢之後我們請吳斯堯幹事長準備那先請經濟部請院長還有各位委員大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2671.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2689.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那剛剛針對國民黨團所提到的就是說這一次我們在特別預算裡面又編了這個兩百億的預算那要來支持這個我們的這個中藥產業園區的這個供電振興的這個部分我想這個部分是確實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2690.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2695.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是現在我們在整個經濟發展過程裡面尤其是我們面對這個未來這個美國對等關稅的這樣的一個大環境的一個改變那我們希望讓產業在投資台灣的過程裡面他要能夠穩定供電 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2708.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2727.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
而且也要讓我們的產業園區他們的一個生產力要能夠維持持續能夠來提升一個很重要的一個一筆費用那尤其現在的這個極端氣候環境之下過去產業園區除了科學園區以外其他都是單回路 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2728.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2745.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那所以我們這一次希望能夠用雙維路去保證這個供電的這個穩定性那這個部分是我們在這一次特別預算特別對這個產業園區供電韌性所提出來的這個部分那第二個部分就是針對剛剛這個黃委員所提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2746.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2763.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
就是說我們為什麼還要再多增加這兩百億那事實上也是因為美國他們在7月31號剛宣布對台灣暫時性的這個對等關稅的稅率20%那我們跟產業界的這個座談產業界都希望政府能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2764.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2785.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個擴大對產業的這個支持所以我們希望在關稅談判這個定案之前我們預留這200億然後作為未來政府在提供產業支持上面能夠有多一些籌碼那未來也可以用這200億元我們可以照顧更多的這個產業所以這個行政團隊這邊才提出這樣的一個預算 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2790.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2805.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 謝謝經濟部的說明主計總署的代表可不可以副主席長可不可以請說明一下這個預算的問題剛剛黃國昌總召所提的請說明我是財政部好 請說財政部我來補充一下剛才 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2807.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2825.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
提到就說要增加10億元這一部分這10億元不是作業費最主要是原來編的預算是2,350億但是現在我們人口初估就是2,357萬人所以就少了7萬人7萬人就是7億 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2830.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2848.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那其他的原來的那個多人的其他的那個3億多就那個作業費用就是比如像這個交易的手續費等等這些那個就跟112年發放的這個金額的差不多這一樣的以上好 謝謝財政部說明現在主席總署請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2850.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2872.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
是 我在這邊做一個說明就是說當然立法院通過這個法律案這絕對是立法權的這個部分只是說這一次的任性特別條例所增加的這個普發現金一萬元因為它所影響的數字是達到兩千三百五十億 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2873.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2893.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那因為這樣的一個條例的內涵它實質已經增加支出所以我們才會有這個違憲的疑慮所以我們現在就是讓它能夠合憲所以才會提出這個特別修正案來讓它能夠符合我們憲政的體制 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2898.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2912.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
謝謝主席總書的說明也跟各位黨團幹部報告一下我們台電的曾董事長也到了等下針對台電的問題第一階段我們請經濟部打訊針對台電的問題大家如果黨團幹部有問題我也會請曾董事長來回答我們現在請吳士堯幹事長請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2916.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2936.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
謝謝院長召集今天的朝野協商在上週五的時候在議場的後方各黨也獲得共識也非常謝謝院長的促成各黨的同意所以才會有今天我們坐在這裡大家都有共識期待能夠為這個任性特別條例的修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2937.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2957.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我們坐下來好好來看看各黨能不能夠協調出共識所以說如果還要在講回之前說為什麼要送修正案什麼我覺得可能就會多耗費一點額外的時間但是我希望先優先針對今天在修正案的第三條第六條跟第九條的部分我們先就條文論條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2959.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2983.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
第一個 第三條是增加了這個本條例所規範的適用要發放給不管是停產業 不管是安定社會不管是駐弱市 不管是發現金四個面向對應於我們有哪些政策的措施項目所以原條文是十一項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2984.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3009.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那新增的第三條是增加一個項目就是我們要增加對於強化電力系統的這一項所以在野黨的委員同意或不同意在條文上就是增這一項至於剛剛所說的發現金要增加多少錢因為當初是人口估錯了嘛少算7萬人嘛就少編7億嘛那個 對嘛那 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3013.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3036.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
發現金的部分的10億元也好或者是我們加碼駐弱式的40億也好或者是產業擴大支持的200億也好其實跟這些條款無涉新增的只有台電的強化電力系統200億是在這一款所以大家對於這一款有沒有意見落在條文就是討論這一條第三條的最後一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3037.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3046.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
第二個第六條在處理的就是跟預算面比較有相關了就是那個總額我們原本從5450億增加到5900億就會剛剛回到剛剛說的在野黨委員同不同意這個總數的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3054.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3074.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
所以這個是大家可以就這個條文的部分否則也可以請在野黨委員看那你們不同意加碼到5900億因為我非常同意啊當初這個在野黨委員說希望能夠因應關稅增加對於產業的扶植所以我想行政院也回應了在野黨的這個訴求也增加編列了產業的200億 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3076.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3091.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那總不能說參採了在野黨的意見現在還要來罵行政院說你為什麼現在又要增加這個就是回應產業的需求也是一個善意的接納在野黨委員的意見所以說在這個從5450到5900億裡頭是唯一跟預算的數字比較相關的所以等一下可以聚焦如果在野黨的委員不同意到5900億那他們是要5800億嗎還是多少可能就是在野黨委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3105.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3121.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
舊條文論條文這個可以提出更具體的說法第三個條文就是第九條第九條要處理的是當初立法院通過的是針對發現金的時間的限制希望在10月31號前發放完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3123.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3151.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
但是行政部門回去做了檢視過去我們的政府發了一次的現金另外是三次的消費券或者是促進振興券這樣唯一一次可以參採的就是2023年蔡英文總統任內確實善用了稅計剩餘然後發放了每個人六千塊的現金所以可以參採的是這個因為發券跟發現金它的作業又不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3152.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3171.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以可以參採的2023的經驗我們可以看喔從立法院那時候三讀通過那個議後振興特別條例的時候通過然後編預算到完成法案三讀通過到開始可以領現金的作業時間是49天 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3173.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3199.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
所以他是有一个作业时间的那上一次因为是第一次发现金你可以说在野党委员可以质疑说49天是不是有了第一次的经验可以缩短或者是说因为他从6000块增加发放到1万块这一次可能作业期间要再拉长也有可能所以过去的经验就是至少49天所以可见在野党的委员要明定在10月31号 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3201.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3221.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
錢要發放完畢這真的執行有困難我剛說的只是啟動作業規劃可以開始領喔從法案三讀通過立法院完成通過到開始可以領現金作業時間就要49天然後上一次2023年發6000塊現金好像是給大家6個月嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3221.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3237.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
因為給國人方便的時間所以這一次是不是也要給國人合宜的時間可能有的國人他在國外啦他在怎麼樣給一個合宜的時間所以從作業的時間的準備乃至於發放的時間要給民眾合宜的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3238.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3259.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
相對寬裕的時間去領都不可能在第九條在野黨當初提的強制在10月31號前發放完畢如果在野黨委員這一條不調整的話很有可能發生一個狀況你時間還是10月31號真的很多人來不及領可能只發一部分而已也不一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3260.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3284.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以說為了讓發現金發好發滿作業時間充分然後民眾有充分的時間來領取也不會擠在某一個時間點那麼在第九條的部分也有調整的必要所以說我先用條文的部分來回應這都是有需要做調整的回過頭來對不起主席還沒有回過頭來 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3286.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3303.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
支持產業的預算相信大家有共識增加發現金的10億因為人口估算少算了7萬人也應當有共識然後加碼弱勢我相信在野黨也會支持那就回過來台電這個部分台電這個部分我也要非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3305.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3317.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
懇切的請大家能夠理解這個200億是在提高科學園區跟產業園區的供電品質尤其是北中南三大科學園區還有產業園區的強化用電 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3321.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3344.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我来自于台北市,我绝对非常期待这一笔预算,因为士林北投科学园区是全台湾北台湾最后一块科技廊带的拼图。也是过去台北市政府从郝龙斌市长、柯文哲市长到现在蒋万安市长都期待的一个有利于产业以及地方发展的建设。 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3345.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3372.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
對於園區現在正在招商場商進駐就是要有穩定的用電更不要說現在揮達向準了希望能夠進駐北市科等一下台電可以增加說明如果這一筆預算獲得立法院的支持將可以有利於我們跟台北市政府的溝通取得設這個便電所這個相關的電力設施的期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3373.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3381.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以我是以我的選區的北市科它也不是只有台北市的需求是全台灣產業的需求想想揮達進駐台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3383.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3405.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
落腳北台灣的這個產業的意義是什麼所以這200億真的請在野黨的委員這完全是扣合著因應關稅的衝擊給產業更合宜的穩定供電的需求但講回來如果在野黨委員依舊有1億的話那就是第12款要怎麼處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3407.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3428.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
對不對所以很具體的我用條文來論述跟實際的需要來論述那至於在未來審預算的時候項目保留了總數定一個合一的總數當然執政黨是捍衛院版那未來在每一個細項是審特別預算的時候大家可以來嚴格監督合理審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3429.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3445.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
但是現在是在做條例所以我認為去談很細節的執行要支用哪些那都應當是特別預算的時候討論的最後一點我想我們都是要依法行政捍衛憲法的憲法70條預算法91條我們財政紀律法第三條第五條 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3451.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3475.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
針對一個財政紀律的秩序我認為捍衛這個財政體制是國會也需要看守的所以這是為什麼行政部門再送出修正案的理由我們非常懇切的需要駐產業挺弱勢護民生發現金我們需要這個特別條例可以在這個會期最後的時間來予以通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3476.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3503.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
好 謝謝吳司遊幹事長的發言那民進黨團兩次發言了國民黨團要不要二次發言好 請王宏威書記長發言台灣民眾黨團請準備好 那個主席還有我們行政院的官員以及我們各黨團的幹部那我想這次的修正基本上剛才黃國昌總召也特別講 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3504.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3529.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
就是說其實我們在立法院在8月1號其實總統府就已經公告我們三讀通過的這個特別條例照理說行政院應該送過來的是特別預算而不是在送特別條例那這樣子的一個程序說實在跟過去也完全這個程序完全不符 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3529.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3534.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以基本上 這並不尊重立法院的一個在立法的一個審查權 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3539.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3557.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那當然我們現在基於因為現在面臨一個非常特殊跟關鍵的時刻就是我們全體的外銷產業面臨美國對等關稅的衝擊所以呢立法院其實基本上我們現在在野黨團是顧全大局 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3560.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3562.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
顧全我們受創的產業受創的勞工還有農漁民所以今天我們在這邊要協商這個特別條例照理說這個特別條例根本就是一個大違建因為它原來就有一個主體在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3579.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3603.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我們委曲求全 為什麼委曲呢我剛才講了是為了我們廣大的外銷產業跟受影響的勞工和農漁民至於剛才我們民進黨團的吳思堯幹事長說我們因為其他修正條文並不多只有三條我想基本上在第三條的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3605.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3610.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
可能最有爭議性的就是有關於強化電力系統這個部分剛才大家也都談過了因為之前的特別條例送來的時候要台電補貼1000億那個時候的特別條例已經把它刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3622.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3624.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那現在感覺是這個化整為零或者是另外變了一個名目就變成說那這樣你不給我一千億好吧你給我兩百億好了那我覺得用這樣一個討價還價巧立名目的方式去塞在這個特別條例事實上我覺得搭這種便車大可不必 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3648.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3669.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
因為當時我們就是要求台電尤其我們現在整個的行政院應該去檢討現在錯誤的能源政策那當然你們這次是用這個強韌這個電網韌性那我剛才也收到了因為我前兩天在質詢卓院長還有我們次長的時候我就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3670.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3677.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
在111年的時候事實上台電就有一個10年強化電網韌性的計畫這個金額高達5645億 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3687.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3714.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那這個十年計畫後來呢這個次長告訴我現在要把它精簡成六年精簡成六年也可以啊那我們就來檢視一下也就是金額沒有減少但是呢你的時間縮短基本上我是贊成的那麼因為我們要強化電網韌性不要動不動就因為這些小動物變成因此而停電那我剛才看到一個最新的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3716.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3720.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這個強化電網韌性的計劃到今年7月底為止總計應該要有331件工程完成了107件預定的進度是32.02%他說現在實際進度又比預定進度有一點點超前 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3739.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3768.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
所以我在這邊要跟大家報告的是也就是強化電網韌性的建設計劃在台電原來就有一個10年計劃而且高達5645億這樣算下來是什麼呢算下來一年呢平均560幾億你把它縮成6年那一年呢他要執行的更高要執行的更高除此以外我們現在呢在立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3769.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3784.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
應該是今天我還忘記今天還明天要審查的災後重建計畫災後重建計畫也有強化電網韌性當然你們的說法是這個部分是主要是針對災區的部分Total加起來也超過100億 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3785.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3800.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
所以我要讲的强化电网韧性不管是十年计划不管是现在重建这个灾后重建计划这个金额基本上我们也愿意支持所以你的其实金额已经非常非常的高了 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3800.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3823.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
金額非常非常高所以你在這邊再搞一個200億老實說我覺得除了要錢之外我看不出有任何的特別意義啊你台電一年到底可以執行多少億的多少億的一個強化電網韌性給了你錢其實你也沒有也沒有做得很好啊所以我要講的第一個強化電網韌性根本不缺錢我的結論就是強化電網韌性根本不缺錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3829.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3840.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
包含這個五千六百多億還有馬上要給你的一百億所以它不缺錢所以我們如果回復到就是比較詳細的就是針對這些條文來做修正的話那麼強化電力系統的這個部分兩百億我認為只不過是巧立明目化整為零再來要錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3852.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3874.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那另外的部分呢 就是對於第六條的部分那當然這個所需的經費上限5900億它就要隨著待會兒我們對第三條的最後的修正它必須也要做一些調整那另外剛才特別有講到就是發放現金的作業費的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3875.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3886.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
因為剛才是吳思耀幹事長他講說為什麼十億呢因為我們講說你就在幾年前發六千塊只要三億多作業費只要三億多怎麼會過幾年我們人口有暴增三倍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3894.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3897.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
好等一下你聽我講完嘛你聽我講完所以基本上我們的要求因為照這樣你就不應該編到作業費上啊不是很奇怪嗎人頭變作業喔那不覺得很奇怪嗎你不就是被我們抓出來然後說哎呀沒有啦因為你的作業費怎麼暴增三倍我們我們的這個消費物價有這樣飛漲三倍嗎你發六千三億多發一萬就變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3924.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3942.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
變成10億好你現在說作業費變成人頭了是因為這個人數增加了到時候我們就要保證你你的作業費不能夠比之前發放這個6000塊的增加對不對這樣合理吧這樣合理吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3945.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3950.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
沒有人口增加就是當然你這個金額我剛剛要講的所以這件我講得很清楚因為我們給錢也是要有一個原則我也不能閉著眼睛給另外一個部分比較重要了就是我們很在乎的第九條的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3965.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3976.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
第九條的部分主要是方放日期因為原條例是要在十月底前完成發放十月底前完成發放當然我可以理解因為我們發放有所謂的線上的領取 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3982.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4003.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
也有實體的領取那確實我們在過去的發放的過程裡面那確實總是會有一些民眾他不是那麼快速的可能大部分比較熟悉使用網路的他可能在線上發放他就可以非常快速但有一些呢也確實他可能要到郵局那麼才能夠履起實體的實體的這個現金所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4010.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4033.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我可以接受我可以接受這個發放時間要有一定的期限因為我也不希望說你10月底前完成那個領取在10月底前那10月底之前沒有來領的人他就落空了我想這也不是我們原來原來這個立法的初衷所以在這個部分我可以接受就是在這個你 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4036.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4045.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
執行的時間是在七個月七個月內我不曉得是不是所謂的七個月內發放完畢也就是到時會訂一個如果超過這個七個月是不是就不再發放這個待會兒可以幫我們再說明一下幫我們再說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4054.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4057.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
因為這個發放時間我覺得牽涉到民眾的權益問題我們除了希望能夠快速而我們也希望能夠照顧到所有的民眾並不是只有這個因為總是有一些所謂資訊落差的民眾他可能等到一段時間才知道其實他可以領這一萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4075.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4102.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
或者他現在人在國外他沒有辦法很快的來做領取我們通通都理解所以你基本上七個月內發放完畢我可以接受但是也請說明一下是不是代表這個時間點就是這個七個月後時間一到是不是就完全就是結束發放這個部分能不能幫我們來做一個說明以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4104.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4129.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那個台灣民眾黨團發言之後要請台灣電力公司的曾董事長要提出說明因為您是焦點中的焦點好幾個都提到您的問題再來要請財政部也要一併說明就是到了假設七個月之內發時間截止之後沒有在這時間領到的錢的人國民朋友可不可以繼續領取因為這個是很關鍵好 我們現在請台灣民眾黨團二次發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4133.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4145.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
謝謝院長針對剛剛行政院的代表所說我們這次行政院之所以沒有按照之前本院通過的特別條例授權給你們編預算案來 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4148.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4168.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
你們到目前為止預算案沒有送來採行的方式是針對這一次的特別條例再提你們的修正案來行政院說是為了要避免違憲台灣民眾黨黨團對於行政院這樣的態度跟說法完全沒有辦法接受完全沒有辦法接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4170.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4197.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
港民進黨黨團的代表援引憲法70條憲法70條規定立法院對於行政院所提的預算案不得為增加支出的提議預算案 三個字這個試讀能力應該不會有問題除非是有一些綠營的側翼粉專自己善改了中華民國憲法70條的規定把預算案再加上法律案鬧成了一個大笑話 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4199.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4224.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
把自己過去所有的信譽全部都丟到垃圾桶裡面去如果不是看那個側翼粉專的內容應該不會產生這樣的誤會所以現在行政院的立場是什麼如果我把你們的針對這個特別條例的修正草案我全部都不予採納我全部都不予採納按照原來的特別條例編預算行政院認為還是違憲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4227.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4253.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
還是沒有關係只要過水了過完了這一個水即使你們所提的修正草案本院全部都否決還是就變合憲了我完全搞不懂行政院的邏輯到底是什麼是只有接受你們的修正草案才會變合憲嗎不是啊那你爭執有違憲的部分現在在你們的條文裡面修正草案的重點是什麼都要給我錢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4254.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4283.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
再多給我錢啊 再多給我450億啊你行政院要的根本就是錢嘛你就是多要450億才提這個修正草案嘛扯到本院三讀通過的法律案違憲經過你這樣修正草案丟來的就突然變合憲喔這個是什麼憲法學上高深的道理啊我完全聽不懂完全聽不懂 第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4285.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4314.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我們這個是針對因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費任性特別條例這個是有個特定的立法目的在處理的特別條例結果這次為了多要錢是不是像王宏威委員所講的之前要給台電的一千億被我們否決掉了以後變另外一個名目變另外一個名目再來要錢我基本上傾向的看法也是這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4316.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4330.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
但我即使用你名目上面的藉口來看強化電網什麼北中南區科技園區這不是早就該做的事嗎這不是早就該做的事嗎還是我們的行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4331.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4353.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
在沒有碰到高關稅以前北中南區的科技園區的電網強化從來沒有放在心上從來不在施政目標然後遇到高關稅衝擊的時候突然發現我們北中南區的電網好脆弱要多給我錢不給我錢我沒有辦法做如果國會敢不給我錢在野黨敢不給我錢馬上 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4355.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4374.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
今天協商結束了以後鋪天蓋地的網軍又出來了這些在野黨不顧台灣高科技的發展不顧台灣電力供應的穩定竟然連高科技園區要的電網穩定的錢都不給我們除了王宏威委員剛剛所講的10年5645億的強化電網韌性建設計畫以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4383.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4400.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
行政院自己不知道強化電網從什麼時候開始喊的從什麼時候開始喊的從蔡英文第一任當總統就開始喊了我記得很清楚從那時候就開始喊了那時候就開始編經費了我遠的不講109年智慧電網工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4408.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4413.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
48.9億110年智慧電網工程50億111年智慧電網工程86.8億111年還有15.7億112年80到90億我現在念的這些喔都不是王宏威委員剛講的10年4600多億的喔這個都是額外的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4434.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4459.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
如果今天是遇到高關稅我們的政府才想到我們北中南區的智慧電網很脆弱要趕快補強 要用這個特別條例那真的是我國高科技產業的悲哀怎麼會有這麼不負責任的政府怎麼會有這麼不負責任的政府所以要用條文論條文 我們具體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4461.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4484.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
第三條的第十二款強化電力系統 台灣民眾黨不同意不同意的理由很簡單 早就該做 本來就做 持續在做要用這個名目來要錢 要用這個名目來要錢然後還是我們拒絕了以後 等一下綠媒 側翼 網軍全部都出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4485.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4514.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
所以我們要弱化台灣弱化台灣的電網跟當初說要發現金一樣說在野黨是配合中共要弱化台灣這不就當初民進黨提出來的論述嗎沈博洋當初不就是這樣講的嗎現在是行政院什麼要決定配合在野黨一起弱化台灣嗎全部都變成中共同路人嗎第三件事情增加給 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4516.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4544.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
針對高關稅的衝擊多給錢我們當初就說啦要多給啊否決的不就是你民進黨立法院黨團嗎我有記錯嗎那個表決燈立法院公報都還在啊今天知道錯了沒有關係我們從善如流那但是針對這個錢你要增加200億的部分我們認為除了企業以外勞工呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4545.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4553.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
農漁民呢勞工呢 農漁民呢所以針對200億的部分我們會提出附帶決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4554.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4576.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
因為到時候預算書你們送來了以後我們通過特別條例上面都沒有框金額在這個總金額之下符合特別條例預算你們要怎麼編就怎麼編預算編來了以後我們只能刪我們只能動我們不能增加我們也不能移項目所以在特別條例如果要增加這200億的話這200億在分配上面該給勞工的 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4582.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4611.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
改給農漁民的增加對於勞工跟農漁民的照顧我們願意用附帶決議最後一點就好也請等一下行政院代表說明一下上次在普發現金六千塊的時候我們已經花了公帑建置了一套系統了請問那套系統是用完一次就丟掉嗎還是那套系統還在上次那個系統花了多少錢能不能再用還是這次要重新發包一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4613.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4640.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
重新發包一次重新再做一次上次那個系統花多少錢還能不能用現在這一次是打算要再重新做一次嗎然後以及上次發六千元請問發放率總共發放的發放率有多少是百分之百全部發放嗎是百分之百全部發放嗎這個對我們在省接下來就這個特別條例的部分都有關係也請行政部門一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4643.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4649.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
謝謝黃國昌總召的二次說明那接下來我們請財政部針對兩個重點問題第一個是王宏威 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4650.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4671.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我簡單的報告一下就是說第九條的發放期間這邊規定是七個月七個月到了以後就停止發放總是要一個截止日這個做法跟112年是一樣的這是第一點說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4672.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4697.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
第二個剛才黃委員提到的就是說上次發放的時候那些系統能不能用都還是可以用但是這邊的所需要的經費是什麼就是交易的手續費你要匯款的時候要有手續費還有自動的櫃員機ATM那個系統要重新調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4698.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4722.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
另外網路你要有網路的費用客服費用這些都是參考上一次發放的這個模式來編列所以基本上我們是何時來編對不起 次長您 王宏威所提的最重要的重點您還沒有回答就是假設七個月發放之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4723.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4737.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
沒有在這個7月領取的他有沒有資格再來領取他可能人在國外就不能再領取了因為那個系統就關了嘛OK 王威偉那你現在聽到財政部的說明就是這個訂了7個月之後沒有在這個7月領取就不得再領取了 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4739.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4761.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
沒有他現在剛剛講的就是說上一次六千塊六千塊等一下那個六千塊就是這樣做法嗎就當時領的是七個月對 就是七個月的時間就是過了這個七個月沒有領取的國民朋友就不能再領了這個問題就回答了好不好那那個系統可以繼續用財政部講得很清楚現在要請台電了那個曾董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4762.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4787.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那你現在大家都很想聽一下您怎麼說明好嗎請好那謝謝院長我把幾個狀況跟委員報告一下就是有關因為這幾年當然都是有一些行政院編列的預算給台電那給台電有很多不同的項目就看起來就很多東西在一起所以我覺得需要一點時間釐清簡單來講第一件事情行政院沒有撥補過給台電3000億 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4791.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4815.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
只有五百億 兩千五百億是增資他完全沒有辦法跟虧損相抵消所以這是第一件事這個重點 黨團幹部先暫時那個王航威署長請聽一下台電他講這個非常重要這第一件事情就是其實是經濟部多持有了台電兩千五百億的股票是增資 不是補貼我想說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4817.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4819.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
是2500億所以我還低估了那你不進一步的錢不是我們的錢是你的錢唉呦 亂扯 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4837.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4858.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我們先請曾董事長委員我這樣講我這樣說因為他不能夠他沒有辦法抵消虧損這完全是不一樣的事所以把這個疊在虧損上我覺得我這是第一個要釐清的事第二個釐清的是10年的5600億這一個預算基本上是當2022年的時候那時候正發生一個很大的電網事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4858.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4885.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所以整個隆起以南隆起以南的電廠全部都跳機所以造成隆起以南幾乎全部都停電那也花了24小時左右時間把它恢復起來那之後台電就做了一個長期的規劃要把所有這個過去為了效率能夠全國就是整個台灣島人融通的這一些電網要做分隔這第一件事第二件事情是剛才各位委員一直提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4886.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4900.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
就台灣其實用電成長真的非常的快那主要集中在一些特定的負載區域那大概成長最快的就是科學園區所以我們另外拉了特殊的線路去科學園區避免我們民生電網受衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4902.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4919.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那這個是花比較長的時間要做到的事所以大部分的五千六百億的工作是在做這個那另外五千六百億裡面還有另外一個重要的指向就是避免一些重要變電設施等等受到影響停跳電的所以我們把變電站室內化然後把那個我們有一些在電感上裸露的部分能夠把它給絕緣包覆掉減少停跳電的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4929.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4949.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那這停跳電的數字其實這幾年來也陸陸續續在下降我想說這是一個事情那當然十年五千六百億一年要執行平均五百多億其實是非常龐大的工程這個台電完全同意就是對我們來說我們現在有丹納斯的預算又增加了一筆錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4950.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4964.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那我們要去有效的執行它我們現在都必須跟公路崗位等等去協調怎麼樣同時施工才有辦法有效的來做這樣子的工作但我要跟各位委員報告現在的狀況是這些內容並不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4970.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4985.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這些內容都是因為民眾的需求或是產業的需求帶動出來的需要而不是台電說我要增加我要增加什麼樣子一些工作項目等等去額外提出來的就是真正有這些需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4986.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5008.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
舉個例子來講13號在這邊也是院長協商就是在講丹納斯的預算的時候那時候我們也提到說你那個80億要做要做那個沿海的下地你做的夠嗎足夠嗎我也跟各位報告說那個其實有一定程度就只能夠做最重要的地方尤其兩年半其實不到兩年半現在已經八月底了 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5009.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5029.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
二十幾個月的時間我們要把它快速執行完畢其實真的是我要做很好的界面協調那當然接下來這個額外的兩百億就是在這個特今天誰三個特別預算裡面談到的兩百億他有兩個部分一個部分是剛才講到的一些產業園區比方說他供電要擴張 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5031.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5049.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
還有一些關鍵的節點要地下化除了這個以外有69億其實是配電的就低壓系統的就是我們在一開始在規劃丹納斯的災區的時候我想各位委員都有參與那次的協調就是那個是災區的範圍我們那時候就台電來講我們想到的就是台17線台19線是西南部 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5053.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5073.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那後來災區的範圍其實變得一花東再加上苗栗以南都進來了有些確實比較脆弱的地方我們也覺得應該要納入來做一些地下化強固的工程那東岸其實過往在東岸其實過往因為颱風都從東邊來所以大家可能不曉得就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5074.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5095.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
花蓮台東像台九縣等等地下化的程度其實比西岸的雲嘉南來的高因為他颱風來所以這一次連台九縣台十一縣及台十七台十九有些部分要擴張的地方我們編了69億的預算要去做這些相關的地下化的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5096.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5115.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那當然委員可以說台電用自己的自有資金來支應那這當成是一種做法這個沒有問題我覺得這預算上要怎麼樣執行這是行政部門編列預算國會來做決定那你說要台電自己去執行台電用自己的財務去執行那是另外一個狀況但我要跟院長跟各位委員報告是 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5116.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5144.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
全世界現在有很多因為新增用電等等而產生的電網投資陸陸續續都有政府在編列預算支持的工作開始出現那我們台電公司其實也收集了最近這一段時間的一些新聞包括美國 德國等等都有在做這些相關的工作那只是說這一個事情值不值得政府來支持台電那就交給大院來決定 以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5145.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5153.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
好 謝謝曾董事長的說明各位黨團幹部我想我們現在跟大家報告369第6條 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5157.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5183.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
問題不大了只有黃國昌總召提出要用附帶決議對不對 我知道 我知道不要急嘛都已經兩輪發言讓我來講講第六條基本上已經達成共識了但是台灣民眾黨團要求提出附帶決議針對這個勞工 農民的朋友這要能夠予以支持是不是這個意思好 這個問題不大了第九條那財政部也說明得非常的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5185.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5191.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個當年的軟體還在可以繼續使用那時間一樣是七個月三個黨團也是沒有意見對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5194.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5216.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
沒有意見我先讓我做個小結論讓我們的超級協商更有效率我們第三條顯然大家都有不同的意見那曾董事長做說明等一下我會針對第三條我們大家來展開黃金十分鐘的協商但我要先確定第六條跟第九條我剛剛這樣上述講各位是不是都同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5219.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5232.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我們現在就不再講其他就針對第六條 第九條第六條其實基本沒有但是它最重要的是它的那個金額那個上限因為它是會跟著第三條牽動那第九條的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5235.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5239.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
因為它的發放時間其實它最牽動的是特別預算對不對 按照現在的條文它是特別預算就是公布之後的一個月內開始執行那我想請問一下如果我們在這個會期我們如果在這個會期我們把特別條例通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5258.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5265.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那請問一下行政院大概你們有沒有預計什麼時候會送這個特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5270.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5295.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
讓我們了解一下不然因為很多民眾會說我什麼時候領到一萬塊什麼時候領到一萬塊現在好像變成我們在欠他一萬塊一樣對不對所以民眾要知道我們又有一個回應所以可不可以行政院能夠答覆我們一下如果我們在這個本會期結束之前那個完成特別條例那你們特別預算大概什麼時候會送來柯總召你稍微等一下我們現在針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5298.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5321.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
剛剛王洪威委員的意思非常的清楚就是590億會根據上述強化電力系統做調整如果黨團都同意當然沒有問題如果黨團不同意那這就會調整這是第一個王洪威所的重點第二個重點就是到底什麼時候主席總署才能送出來讓每一個立法委員可以面對選民的時候做一個更清楚的宣示這個等一下請主席總署說明來 黃國昌委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5322.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5347.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
那個針對剛剛院長所說明的第六條的部分跟院長還有各位黨團的代表報告第六條的部分依照行政院目前所提出來的因為我們不贊成他們在裡面針對強化電力系統的部分在灌水200億所以那個金額我們會把它調低 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5348.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5360.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以他本來寫的是5900億我們會把他調低成5700億這個是第一個部分第二個部分這個預算編下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5364.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5391.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
預算編下去那接下來按照這些要幫助產業幫助勞工 幫助農漁民的實際上面執行的狀況是什麼非常的重要所以我們在第六條的部分我們增加了最後一項因為既然要談修正草案就談修正草案嘛我們在第六條的部分台灣民眾黨黨團會提出修正動議我們要求依照本條例編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5392.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5393.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
也就是本院 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5416.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5436.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
不是不負責任的通過特別條例通過預算那你錢拿去怎麼花花到什麼地方去實際的進度是什麼還是錢給你的以後拿去亂花根本執行不利這不僅僅是國會要監督一般的公民也有資的權利我們會提出這樣子的修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5437.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5452.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
請您幫忙印一下換句話說黃國昌總召所同意的就是說除了電力系統之外是同意是5700億那現在只剩下第三條就是強化電力系統這一部分那柯總召請就針對條文 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5454.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5481.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好我想今天已經差不多說明到最後要有結論了那當然這個是經過條文的時候有譬如說第三條荒山委員對第12款第12款不像第12款強化電力系統他不同意見他發表那就只有兩個版本表決嘛這很清楚至於他要增加負債結益那是一回事負債結益是一回事這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5482.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5498.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
第二點 因為第六條剛才洪商委員說要增加再一款那一款就是 我覺得那是可以的那就把它加上去就好那可能另外一項了啦另外一項 那是OK的就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5503.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5514.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
有共識 有共識現在我們休息十分鐘曾董事長您可以跟各黨團溝通 好嗎好 你盡量放電希望你能夠達到你的效果我們休息十分鐘之後我們要進來做結論 好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6650.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6674.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
好謝謝各位黨團幹部請坐我們現在會議準備繼續開始好嗎來謝謝各位列席官員謝謝各位工作同仁請坐那我嘗試性來做一下結論第三條第六條任性特別條例我們保留送院會處理第九條我們就叫協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6676.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6676.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6691.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6720.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
寫章結論後之第九條條文第九條本條例及其特別預算施行期間自中華民國一百十四年三月十二日起至一百十六年十二月三十一日子第三條第十一款應於本條例編列之特別預算公佈後一個月內開始執行發放作業並於七個月內發放完畢行政院應於本條例生效後一個月內將以本條例編列之特別預算案送交立法院審議本條例及其特別預算施行期間屆滿得經立法院同意延長之 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6720.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6726.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
提案人 臺灣民眾黨 立法院黨團 中國國民黨 立法院黨團 宣布完畢好 請副國務卿總統 請發言我現在朝野需要的是和諧我想賴清德總統所推動的這個大罷免這一年多也已經結束了這時候大家好好來做事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6749.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6777.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
能夠盡量能夠盡量大家達成共識盡量達成共識但是我想剛剛院長是好意大家讓台電曾董事長再來做一個最後的溝通那我們這裡要特別強調就是說公投的結果已經出來了大概希望使用核能的人大概是反對三倍的人所以國家的能源政策如果不解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6779.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6803.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我們當然了解曾董事長他對台電他的責任但是我們更有對國家對所有產業的責任今天不是兩百億的問題是整個國家能源政策再不徹底檢討的話大小永遠在這裡空轉今天兩百億明天要多少億後天要多少億我們永遠在這裡打轉都轉不出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6805.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6832.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
所以這個也要跟台電剛剛韓院長真的是很客氣希望再溝通一下而且要特別強調已經講了這麼多天了這麼多天了10年5645億的這個強化電網韌性的這個預算到現在沒有執行完他都可以先用嘛他都可以先用嘛不需要這個時候5000多億沒有用完又到立法院來要錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6834.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6858.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我們是覺得而且上一次風災的部分從560億我們主動提供到600億也讓所有災區的這個電網能夠地下化我們也都主動的支持那我在這裡要特別特別因為我今天這個看到這個邱太元衛福部部長在這裡我們真的很感慨 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6863.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6890.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
真的很感慨啊發動大罷免 配合大罷免所有的造謠生非的人全部都留任啊所有內閣造謠生非的全部都留任然後呢這個邱太元 邱部長啊還是我們少數啊滿敬佩的而且真的為異界做了很多事情的人而且在過程當中從來沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6892.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6918.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所謂的亂造謠言什麼藍白三預算而且邱部長到任何公開場合只要任何任何黨派的立委在場他都由衷的表達感謝好 鳳總我們先回到這個沒關係因為這是同樣一件事情同樣一件事情不是你愛邱太元部長就不要說他好好不好我要說他很好因為我們不能讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6920.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6941.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
這個如同賴總統說的這個雜質一直留在內閣裡面然後兩品都離開了我覺得這樣子真的很不適宜我們一定要把這個事情這個邱部長 邱部長我們雖然很遺憾沒有關係28年也歡迎你回來啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6942.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6960.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
第九條您同意嗎您現在還沒有針對我們這個協商條文表達意見同意了還有一個修正動議馬上要念基本上院長主持的我們都表同意謝謝我跟邱太元部長一樣優秀好 謝謝來我們現在念附帶決議好宣讀附帶決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6965.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6972.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
將條例經費上限至新台幣5450億元增加250億元提高至新台幣5700億元其中預留200億元用以強化對產業支持擴大協助範圍並滿足各產業需求並增列40億元以加強對弱勢族群之照顧及關懷服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6983.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6994.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
應確保所預留的200億元中不低於50億元用於勞工安定就業措施另不低於50億元用於農業與產業發展支持提案人 中國國民黨立法院黨團 臺灣民眾黨立法院黨團 宣導完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6998.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
7019.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好 各位黨團幹部如果沒有意見的話我就把協商結論快速的來念一遍好嗎好 謝謝時間8月27號星期三下午2點31分我們協商主題因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別條例第三條第六條第九條條文修正草案協商結論一 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
7020.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
7038.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
照協商條文通過第九條條文如後附二保留條文送請院會進行處理第三條及第六條條文三協商通過附帶決議項如後附四院會進行處理時廣泛討論由台灣民眾黨團推派一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
7039.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
7062.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
民進黨團推派一位 國民黨團推派一位每人發言時間三分鐘 逐條討論不再發言依序進行各條文黨團版本之處理五 本次協商各黨團T均列入公報記錄本案完成三讀之後 我們不再進行三讀後之發言各黨團也不再提出複議請問各黨團幹部有異議沒有異議 麻煩請各黨團簽署 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
7069.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
7088.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
另外做一個重要宣告有關本會及最後一天院會處理完成協商之後及不需協商議案部分由於我們協商結論先前已經明定最後一天只處理四個討論議案因此對於上開未及於最後一天處理的議案我們預估 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
7090.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
7115.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
不含發言三讀後時間要至少四個小時所以時間實在是不夠時間不夠我們就訂夏會期加開一天的院會我們專門來進行處理這些議案好不好做一個重要宣告我們要爭取一下這些都是朝野有共識的議案但是那要等到夏會期啊院長節日過我們最後一個表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
7117.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
7118.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
7147.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
7165.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那個報告院長這些都是社會期待很久的讓我們在這個會期各黨大家都有一個更好的成果像攬財條例資安法個人資料保護法還有刑事訴訟法 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
7167.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
7196.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
行政區劃法公路法道路交通管理處罰條例跟停車場法這個都沒有爭議都民生議案而且大家都各黨同意都不需要再協商也都可以直接院會處理的我們讓他再成為這個研會的最後的好的成績單我們是在爭取一下因為院會時間應當夠的這都是民生的各黨有共識的當天院本部也有其他的重要的會議也都發出去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
7197.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
7212.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
再溝通好了好不好我盡量我們等會再跟我們團隊我們再來溝通好不好好那謝謝今天各位協商的黨團代表也謝謝列席的官員我們現在散會 |