| IVOD_ID |
168867 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168867 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-27T11:37:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-27T11:50:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fcf676897be76b96ac0eabb37d7450da502584eb9ab8e1f8df8c171d4c1cef901cee844413abcda5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪毓祥 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:37:51 - 11:50:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國防部創新小組將新興科技應用於不對稱作戰之效能分析與未來發展」，併請衛生福利部、國家科學及技術委員會列席，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 有請國防部部長我想今天的話大概就是你們的報告就是新興科技用在不對稱作戰跟效能分析與未來的一個發展所以我把你們的報告 |
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也很認真的看完所以我發現我先講我總體結論就是說這樣子的報告說實在是不合格不合格所以我在想等會後諮詢你們可以再交詳細的報告給我我身為在外面審查那麼多的案子這種東西叫做都是形容詞形容詞我等一下再跟各位說明 |
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所以我只能下這個結論我看完你們的報告我把我那個非常豐富的投影片全部都註廢重做就是你的AI這樣子用創新科技這樣用真的會變成BI然後就CI那果然個戲來 AI的基本功如果各位要幫部長回答都可以 |
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因為部長也不是我們資通訊專業的沒有問題AI基本功資料模型推論動作動態回饋所以呢你們在做每一個案子的時候都要去考慮這件事情你的Data Source對不對夠不夠準不準你的模型是哪一種模型Pretrain的模型哪一個 |
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不知道我都看不到你可以呼通其他沒有資訊專長的委員沒有問題但我不是我交大畢業之後資工系畢業之後我就在做這件事情做整個系統整合做軟體我念博士班的時候impeded real-time system那時候還是接中科院的計畫雄風 |
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那時候還要做reverse engineering所以我覺得你們這種東西就是紮實一點然後講資安也是你們現在講的是說我AI去弄資安可是當你們現在講要創新科技用AI的時候新型態的AI的資安呢我的plump ingestion我的gold hijackingplump的leaking模型的混亂干擾 |
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這個當你在外包的時候或者是你在做合作的時候這些都要去處理我今天只是提醒部長部長就了解這個問題就好好好去問這些底下要負責的人 |
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跟委員報告我們今天不是在做AI的報告沒有問題不是不是不是這都你寫的不是我寫的喔不是我們是在就總體的國防創新小組來來來部長不要給我唬爛 |
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第二頁你寫的 什麼叫做我跟你唬爛這你寫的啊 多元情資融合強化預診能力這不是我寫的喔AI分析及決策輔助工具我們的報告當然不可能在每一個環節裡面都做這是你們寫的 這誰寫的那我們如果光一個AI我可以寫十頁給你啊這你寫的嘛 什麼叫做我們唬弄這不是你寫的嗎 這誰寫的 |
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你們報告 第二頁第一項 我都招你們的AI分析及決策輔助工具發展成熟二本部客規劃整資整合系統結資料融合及AI輔助分析然後再來第二頁的第三項地面無人載具投入多元場景 |
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的第一點 結合AI功能UGB可投入偵查火力資源 全部都是這不是我寫的啊 這你們寫的啊然後 再多了 第三頁裡面自衛化後勤系統提升整體效能 對不對用AI來做輔助 做分析不是我寫的 這都你們寫的 |
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291.754 |
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第八項資安AI技術防範進階網路威脅資安防禦重點由被動阻擋轉向主動偵測這都你們寫的不是我寫的第八項你們的報告第四頁那請問有什麼問題問題多了 |
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312.445 |
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那你講一下我講的啊所以我沒有叫你回答我知道你也不會回答你剛剛講一個AI的基本這個不曉得後面還有後面還有所以我剛剛問了嘛這個有什麼好在那邊那不然就找回答誰可以幫我回答我後面這些問題比如說這是你們寫的啊模型採用的我想要問的什麼是哪種樣的標準你的Pretrain的資料數量會是多少 |
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342.335 |
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中科院還是誰我覺得我們在回答這些問題的時候我們要考慮到我們的機敏性好隨便中科院可以回答不機敏的好不好那中科院嘗試回答不機敏 |
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358.32 |
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383.32 |
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先跟您老實誠實的報告我們所有引入的模型基本上我們是引入人家的模型然後回來以後用我們自己的資料來訓練他那真的沒辦法因為我知道就是Pretrain的話是引進那引進國際的模型的時候你Pretrain的時候對不對我們是因為你要考慮到的是說我是在雲端AI做還是在Edge AI還是在地面型地端AI因為這三個都有可能 |
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384.639 |
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412.366 |
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回來我們要分兩個階段第一個階段是在實驗室裡面做封閉式的學習因為不然我會影響到我整個戰備我也不敢這樣直接把它擺進去那在實驗室完之後我們會到中間還有一個隔離實驗室在隔離實驗室它就跟戰備有一些接上了但是它必須要接受軍種的測裁OK的 成熟的我們才會進到我的整個系統裡面再去做機械學習大概分成這兩個階段所以他們現在用的這個Pretrained的模型 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
413.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
428.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
會是我們商用的那幾個還是說他們從商用那邊再調成軍用的這點你知道嗎是直接用軍用的直接用軍用的OK好那如果不機敏的話就再跟我做一點報告分析因為我對這個東西是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
430.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
456.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
相當有興趣啦因為這會影響到我們後面的推論是那因為你的Ashen之後會再跟你的D端雲端這邊Edge端裡頭的整合好不好對這個大概是這樣子相關剛剛委員所指教的這些這個AI的一些基本功我想我們大家都已經好啦沒關係啦 陸準那如果說委員想要知道一些我們可以私下再跟委員可以可以可以來指教再給我一點時間主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
458.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
484.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個下一個就是我那時候在經濟部的時候做召委諮詢的時候事實上我對於軍民科技我是支持的但是現在的話就是民間廠商反映的就是我們這整個整機這樣做來之後因為數量很龐大未來只會越來越多所以在通訊整合然後敵我識別這是不是可以精確 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
486.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
502.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這一點的這個防干擾的能力然後另外我們也擔心我們平常擔心也是衛星所以大概就這幾個問題也請總科院第一個那個通訊整合的問題我們現在正在把原本的那個寬頻通信機 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
503.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
528.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
透過金創計畫的遺囑把它晶片化晶片化之後我們就用軟體定義無線電的方式來去做一個整個大型資料鏈的整合這是第一個部分第二個問題是石山中的敵我識別確實是很討厭尤其是我們如果要製造地域場景的話目前我們做的方式就是因為我們都是autonomous所以你最重要的是你的任務規劃所以在任務規劃的時候做整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
528.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
549.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以我才知道我的我的飛機在哪我們現在基本上就是我不是我的無人機我就視為敵機這是目前我們整個一個系統設計比較回到初始的概念那防干擾的能力就是我們繼續在SERPA這上面做努力另外除了SERPA就是陣列貼線之外我們在今年的預算裡面像當然還沒審過 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
550.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
575.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們針對無GNS deny的狀況我們去做了 利用我們是防衛作戰的一方我只能這樣講 利用我們是防衛作戰的一方來發揮我們防衛作戰的地理空間的優勢來去防止相關的干擾好 因為我想要知道的是說沒有問題啦 因為短時間我們也沒辦法回答清楚如果一樣 非機敏的 我們可以好好討論因為我們都是為了國家更好因為我在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
576.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
604.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那個經濟部的質詢的時候因為我們晶片我其實也參與啊因為金創那時候的計畫嘛但是在就很不幸的我們在非島控地島籌載通訊這些我們的晶片化還是不足所以基本上 呃 龔部長 龔明星部長也說過了就是他在15年會做但是他可能要到17年可能這一個國產化的晶片還不見得啊就是說盡量達成目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
606.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
628.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以就回到剛剛馬文君委員問的因為就是軍民的科技的合用這一塊我們希望是把我們無人機的自主化的這個比例拉高但這樣子的通訊相關的這四個關鍵型的晶片不曉得中科院跟因為你們在經濟部這邊也有軍民科技的合作所以跟民間廠商的配合這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
629.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
655.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是不是可以再趕上進度出來這樣子我想簡單然後如果鐘哥要再補充原則上也就是說我們跟經濟部不斷的再去調查有關國內包括甚至國外它相關的能量在這幾個方面那有關國內可以能量的部分我們當然國內能夠就把它納入如果國內能量還沒有的還有國外那我們當然的政策我們的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
656.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
666.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是要希望他們提供技術移轉或者共同開發然後能夠落地生產這個是我們總的一個這個我都同意我現在只是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
668.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
692.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
速度嘛對不對因為不然我們弄完了之後又是下一代了我怕是Fast out這樣的東西所以剛剛才會講到說這些材料因為我是尊敬中科院的非常尊敬包括這個模組化也好包括用軟體驅動也好讓它不斷能夠迭代更新這就是我們現在努力的方向嘛好這個另外我們在民間廠商合作的時候就是說在專屬的軍用的測試 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
694.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
718.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那個場域目前的準備狀況的因為我們必須要符合實際作戰電池抗干擾測試這些等等所以這個地方是落在還是嘉義那一個嗎還是不是這個沙河會落在南部地區啦沙崙差不多好那我就知道了我也沒有什麼特別問題我只問出我要的答案就好了謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
721.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
742.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
委員我再補充報告一下就您剛剛講這些晶片的發展齁其實因我們國家的科技實力發展這些晶片都不是難事其實我們現在都有蠻大的突破真正的重點是沒有人要幫我排製成因為量的問題 謝委員明白嘛 就是預算扎下去嘛 好不好國家對嘛 可以啦好 謝謝 |