| IVOD_ID |
168856 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168856 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-27T10:10:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-27T10:28:39+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:12 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fcf676897be76b909bf01c9284a54b4a502584eb9ab8e1f4e97f91d438fea250cd0b6bef2137dcc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:10:27 - 10:28:39 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國防部創新小組將新興科技應用於不對稱作戰之效能分析與未來發展」，併請衛生福利部、國家科學及技術委員會列席，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 麻煩部長請顧部長那另外中科院我們站規師麻煩都一併上來中科院還有站規師黃市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
14.565 |
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36.452 |
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部長辛苦 早上我聽了其實最近大家就我們國家在無人載具跟反制無人載具的發展其實討論很多那我覺得每個人都專家但每個人大概因為這是新的東西更新換代非常快所以有時候昨天的觀念妨礙了我們明天的進步所以我今天有兩個問題是常聽到的要就教於三位 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
37.492 |
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45.984 |
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第一個有關我們不管是無人載具水面上的水面下的空中的陸地上的四條腿的或跑輪者不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
47.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
74.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
他要怎麼納入職管這其實是蠻重要的因為尤其在軍事用途上如果他不能納入職管他在哪裡我不知道他去哪裡我難以預測的話友軍不敢進來我們自己在運作上有問題所以我第一個要請教就是在軍方的部分是不是所有這些無人機還有這個防制無人機的裝備都會納入我們的職管系統還是會獨立一個職管系統中科院先來好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
76.721 |
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這個是一定要納入我的整合執管系統的不能讓他out of loop 這個答案我聽過所以我真的要問的是下一題現在去年通過的防衛任性的預算現在非軍方的CI 中油啊 海巡啊還有這個警政署啊 高鐵啊 甚至台積電他們也要建置一堆防制無人機的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
101.533 |
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129.285 |
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那至於他們建立的防制無人機系統可能會走區域聯防他們有他們的指揮所嗎或者他們有他們C2的中心嗎這整個是由中科院來負責整合硬體裝備部由中科院供應你們負責整合你要讓不同的系統不同的廠牌不同的來源要能夠跟你們對話嘛對 不只要區域聯防那另外按照內政部警政署的要求我們還會建立兩個大區域的指管中心兩個夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.369 |
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159.76 |
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目前的預算只夠做這麼多因為你要區域聯防兩個的話光一個中山山脈隔成兩邊你怎麼弄還有海島啊然後我請教就是因為那個預算過了我看他們現在正在寫相關的案子我好奇的比如說軍民共用的機場台南機場啊CCK啊就軍民共用或像松山機場它的防制無人機的系統是軍方來建立還是民航局來建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
161.232 |
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185.92 |
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目前以松山機場的案例是由民防局來建立民防局來建立 是那民防局來建立它納入他們自己那個所謂你建立了兩個中心嘛那一個東西就是CI的防制無人機的系統這個它的C2或者我們講指揮所有跟我們軍方串在一起嗎這個通報系統是隨時都是保持上的有時候順序我假設一個狀況我如果說說請你糾正我 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
188.084 |
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216.428 |
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現在民航建立了或者民間建立一個防制無人機的體系然後我們軍方的無人機在旁邊操作的時候會不會被他打下來這個我們都會有相互的通報在軍機場裡面或是軍民共用的這個機場裡面比如第一秒鐘我在旁邊我們現在軍機場台南機場隔一條街外面都民宅啊我飛起來了包委員這個都是在都是在管制區內管制區內所有的這個無人機的活動都要相互通報你們現在是由民航局來建制嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
217.068 |
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244.887 |
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所以他掃到了看見了民航局裡面他有一個委員會我的了解是這樣子這個委員會有關於我們現在無人機訓練的空域我們無人機要進行的那個他有一個高度的要求一個分配然後某個高度上面那就要進行派駐通報還有聯絡官進駐那一定的空域下沒有影響飛安像他防制無人機有干擾的問題我們的指揮通信導航 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.369 |
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270.898 |
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這個規範是由軍方來規範還是民航來規範這個是由我們軍方來規範我舉一個例子以桃園中正機場為例中正機場的無人機防制系統是由中正員協助建立的那現在每一天都有在執行任務而且評價還蠻好的但是他旁邊就是入航六棟妖女的訓練空域所以透過兩邊中間的整合所以六棟妖女的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
289.114 |
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無人機起來或是它的入航的直升機起來絕對不會去讓淘機的干擾系統干擾到這題是大家的疑慮那我建議就是說這一個指揮鏈啊或者通訊傳輸的鏈有這個可以的話讓我們委員會了解一下如果有人疑慮可以提 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.775 |
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315.784 |
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就是說怎麼樣整合是一件事情第二個疑慮常常提到的就是我們在委員會也提到無人機是一個新的從2020年亞美尼亞跟亞塞拜蘭戰爭開始大量運用那更新換代非常快所以我現在這一題就一個題目就是怎麼樣避免我採購以後或大量採購以後沒有多久就變昨日黃花我到底是在合約裡面怎麼寫或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
316.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
322.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
每一次少量多餐避免更新換代整個淘汰掉目前國防部的想法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.272 |
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349.747 |
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跟我們報告,現在進入AI時代以後,所有的像無人載具,尤其是無人載具系統因為它自主化程度很高,所以它都是由軟體來定義硬體就以二屋戰場為例,你如果一個月你的軟體沒有更新沒有進步的話,你這無人機就落伍了所以重點在於軟體的不斷更新,而不是硬體的迭代所以現在採購的都必須能夠隨時可以接受upgrade |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.407 |
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379.219 |
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是而且這個但是我要提醒院長跟部長軟硬體互為所用而且戰場環境不同在某個戰場比如說在烏克蘭戰場沒用的或者有用的未必適應台海戰場風不一樣啊氣溫不一樣啊地形地貌不一樣用的人跟你對抗的對象毛與頓不一樣所以俄烏戰場是一個很好的參考但不是唯一的指標在那邊失效的未必在我們這邊會無效在那邊能飛的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
380.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
401.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
能在水上能夠在黑海跑的未必在台灣海峽跑得出去所以環境因素對於更新換代的軟體跟硬體這兩個要一併思考我正在提醒否則我們花那麼多錢買了一大堆裝備萬一過了三個季度之後它就失效了那個是很大的影響跟傷害我再解釋一下30秒剛剛那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
404.008 |
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424.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
陳永康委員有講到我們的軟體都是要回來以後經過我們自己再按照我的任務和我的接站規則去增六它不斷的增六它才能夠更follow我們需要的任務特性第二個硬體的部分現在都是模組化設計當我在軟體更新的時候我硬體如果匹配不上的話我就必須把這個模組抽換掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
直接換新的模組上去這是軟硬體相結合的部分更新換代並不是說不斷的去創造新的構型不是 而是從一開始設計你就要把更新換代的理念擺在裡面我相信你們比我還專業啦但這兩個問題其實是國人一律要提出來的那除了部長要其他請回啦我就要提一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
448.41 |
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469.001 |
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這個土法不足以自行只有裝備沒有優秀的國軍也沒辦法去運作它那最近陸軍六軍團一五三旅經六節發生這一個溫信上位的事情它事情大概只有兩個樣態我今天要問一個我這邊接到的情形它在第一個樣態是公然侮辱 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.444 |
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495.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
霸凌那個台日混血的行兵坦白講罵到人家媽媽那個是不應該的不管什麼族群背景那陸軍六軍團處理的很明快我看你們知道之後馬上把他調離主管職然後以公然侮辱移送法辦這個部分處理算明快至於他跟那個士兵是單一個案或者他們彼此能不能和解那是另外一件事情其實另外本席關注到另外一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
496.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
522.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他們那個單位在1月份今年初就有人投訴他們在部隊裡面播放中華人民共和國的統戰的電影那個部長跟參謀長知道這個事情嗎?是,我們都有注意到這個那這個事情要怎麼處理?我們現在有關這個他們不能夠再播放這個中制的影片那我問明確一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
525.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
536.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是這個溫馨連長自己想播放的嗎?有沒有人下令叫他去找這個片子來播?您說播放這個影片,那個影片是銀長銀長要求播的嗎?銀長為什麼要求去播一個中國的統戰電影? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
543.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
568.851 |
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謝謝委員我來做一個補充報告我首先先就中共統戰的一個手法它實際上是透過各項的電視影音包含到社群這種文化滲透或者從旁邊我們都知道就是再怎麼樣你要播台灣版的八百壯士我OK啦你去播中華人民共和國的八百而且在軍中把官士兵集合這不對嘛我的意思說營長為什麼下這個令 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
570.752 |
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599.195 |
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這個是不對因為營長的認知裡面他本身產生一個錯誤的判斷他他自己看了這個影片裡面看到有我們的中華民國千天白日滿地紅的國旗還有播放我們的國歌他就認為這是一個適合給官兵做一個精神教育所以他自己先看過了對他殊不知裡面其實是中共他統戰的一個包裝我跟你講中共最喜歡把你國軍共軍變成中共軍變一大群是他就在黏糊敵我意思和分化 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
600.535 |
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627.103 |
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在播放電影的時候 營長坐在那邊看喔是對不對是他為什麼那麼認真推這個事情我就講是他自己在自己個人看了這部影片之後他的一個錯誤判斷曹國長你剛才講的我認同是中共的影片有時候你第一時間看有中華民國國旗好像不錯他其實在混淆那一個他的敵我界線讓以上師保護自己國家鬆懈我們的心防鬆懈心防嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
627.703 |
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656.033 |
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那現場陣戰人員在啊報告這個這個營長播在這個案情之後他播的時候陣戰官在啊是後面我們了解了我們已經有那陣戰官有沒有起來站起來說制止有後面有反映到呂陣戰主任呂陣戰主任知道之後當場有一個陣戰人員站起來說這不適合有沒有這個事情這一段戲不會有這個陣戰人員應該加冕一下是可是荒謬是他站起來說不適合的時候 |
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657.49 |
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676.786 |
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裡面的兵口音很特別的兵還站起來駁斥這個陣戰人員我第一次看到部隊兵可以駁斥軍官的耶我沒有聽我沒有掌握到這樣的情況但是後面這一梯式的兵那一梯式就是上應該年初跟這一次這個台日混血不同梯式的那一梯式的兵裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
677.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
693.986 |
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有好幾位都是非常高階學府的人所以陸續寫了信出來我現在要提的這件事情就是說這一個溫馨旅長個人去公然侮辱該怎麼辦就怎麼辦你們也辦了不錯那軍方該看的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
694.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
723.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是他一個人的個案還是他有對其他T4的兵做一樣的事或者有其他的班長配合他進行這樣的霸凌第二個是只有這個連這樣子有沒有其他單位犯了類似的錯不能再犯或者要普遍的了解這是一件事情那個事情就讓你們去處理我們現在看到的是營長下令那個溫馨連長那一個禮拜是執行 背執行帶連長只好去找這個中國的影片統戰影片拿到軍中來播 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
724.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
744.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
而且 你有沒有想過 這還有版權的問題啊在部隊播盜版的影片無法無天 目無法跡就算要播國內的影片 你也要有版權啊就 版權也有問題裡面有中國對台灣心理戰的成分在裡面然後營長下令 現場監看 營長在場然後當場有政戰人員制止 還被兵駁刺 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
750.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
760.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
後面這一段你們去查證一下如果有這樣情形的話我腦袋就一個問號而已這個銀是個案嗎是認知意識形態的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
762.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
786.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
還是想幹嘛?就你們現在陸軍掌握的情形報告委員 我沒有認為這是一個個案那這純粹我剛才也跟委員報告過是營長他個人對這個這部影片裡面他的一個價值判斷的錯誤那事實上征戰局他對於各項的政教的這個教材都第一個都有明定的軍安總隊有沒有進行相關的調查背後金流啦 相關的人事物 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
787.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
807.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
您說 這個營長有問題的都該了解吧 那個石局長是 委員好 跟您報告 只要是有異常的狀況我們保防安全處跟軍安總隊都會做相關的調查了解年初這件事情其實當時就已經有公開投訴了 是為什麼那時候都沒處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
809.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
828.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第一時間我們都會掌握跟處理那跟您報告一下這個有關於他的這個營長所播放的這個影片正常來講這些輔助教材都要經過旅籍的政戰主任在每個就舉光是前一天的政教研討會都要經過審查旅籍的政戰主任知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
829.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
854.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以他沒有經過審查這個然後你知道在同二時期你回去Google我建議軍安或者政戰局去了解一下同二時期在某些縣市在某些縣市後備叫召的時候在遊覽車上面就在播這個影片我不是說它一定是一個集體行為但是你們要有敏感度夠啊怎麼會那麼剛好後備叫召遊覽車上面司機播這個影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
856.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
881.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
金六杰這個營區的營長下令播這個影片同一個影片喔 你們有沒有掌握包委員 這個我們會再詳細做調查那您剛剛講遊覽車這件事情喔因為有一段時間這個事情我們也有掌握也都有經過調查跟處理那這個背後是一個組織性的行為一個認知作戰的作為還是那麼剛剛好大促銷大家這個時候都在播這個電影 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
882.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
897.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我想我有關於這個對於中共統戰的一些手段我們會強化這方面的教育那麼相關的有違常的情況我們也都會充分的了解跟立即的處理年初知道這個情形之後你們做了什麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
898.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
926.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
如果年初有處理 現在後面還會發生這個連長還有這個連長霸凌這個台日混血的士兵的事嗎 沒有嗎是你們當時沒處理吧是 如果我們做得不夠我們會再檢討不是 年初做了什麼處理 我這是一個問號委員是指影片年初揭露了他們在軍中播放中共統戰影片你們當時做了什麼處理包含了這相關議場的這些人員我們都經過調查跟了解然後每個都還在原位啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
928.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
945.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這叫處理喔表示他做的沒錯嘛不是 而是說他的對於這樣子不是 我的問題很簡單當年初爆發這件事情其實我坦白講霸凌是當然也嚴重那是個案在部隊這樣子去播這樣的影片又由營長層級下令 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
947.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
974.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我認為這個事情比較嚴重但我的問題很簡單你們當時知道做了什麼處理有沒有處理沒有就沒有嘛被處分了這個營長也被處分但是因為他對於這個內容被他是沒有經過審查的也就是說他對這個內容的認知有誤你們當時處分這個營長是營長有處分做什麼處分營長申戒兩次那因為我幫我抱怨我們的了解純粹是 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
975.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1002.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
就營長而言他純粹是個人在這個影片裡面他自己的認知錯誤我們可以這樣想啦調查單位不能這樣想啦是那所以我們針對他的不當的第一個沒有經過政教研討會播放這個政戰的輔教影片拿了一個你沒有版權偷偷下載下來拿到部隊來播我先不講影片內容光這個行為就毫無法律概念了是人家告你賠錢怎麼辦第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1003.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1016.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那個內容很明顯就是中華人民共和國而且還支援解放軍去演的一齣電影沒有版權智慧財產權的概念沒有心理防線的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1019.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1036.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我坦白講如果這是單一個案那當然這個人就有問題嘛報告委員也容我補充一下雖然不管是這個溫連長的事件或是這個營長播放這影片目前在我們陸軍做了深入的掌握我們認為是單一事件他用什麼機器播的你如果掌握的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1037.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1051.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
有 它是用手機連線它手機 我們部隊如果裝了你們那個管制系統叫什麼MDM你們裝了MDM 它可以播中國的電影沒有 那是YouTube在手機裡面連接到YouTube抓的連YouTube上就直接播了然後直接連線抓的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1052.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1077.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那我要跟委員報告就是說雖然我們的做了深入的了解認為這兩個都是單一事件但是我們仍舊對中共無所不用其極的用各種的包裝來實施統戰包含到吸收我們低階的官士兵以及我們幹部的一個重要敵我意識和為何而戰為何而戰的認知這事實上在國防部裡面和軍總現在都是列我們很重要的一個精神教育的一個事項我把這個幹案讓你了解讓部長知道其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1079.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1091.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
敵人的矛我們都知道我們的盾有沒有破洞這是我們自己要檢討然後理論我們都知道實際的作為要有一些時機做出來好不好時間關係這個案子後續我們再來追蹤謝謝部長 |