| IVOD_ID |
16871 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16871 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-15T08:30:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-15T17:56:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
09:25:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a60933e79f5a66a952595e5a7d9476abbdb3a4a8e3640dc7cc204dfb4fda4df4d8355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:45 - 17:56:00 |
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1 2 3 41 2 3 41 2 3 41 2 3 41 2 3 4喂 目前者聲音沒有變到正常是不是 |
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409.901 |
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411.582 |
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123412341234正常啊 好 先這樣 好不好 |
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1767.898 |
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1780.908 |
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報告院會現在我們開始進行開會請秘書長報告出席人數報告院會出席委員49人已足法定人數我們現在開會報告院會依照協商結論今天報告事項處理完畢之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1782.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1808.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
先進行處理丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例草案一案並於處理完畢之後我們再請行政院卓院長及相關部會首長依原定議程列席報告並備諮詢今天院會後續就依照協商結論來進行現在進行報告事項請米莎宣讀第三會期第24次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1810.649 |
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1830.045 |
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宣讀立法院第十一屆第三會期第二十四次會議議事錄時間中華民國一百十四年八月八日上午九十至九十二十四分時時至十一時四十七分八月十二日上午九十至十二時十一分下午二十三十分至五十四十九分地點本院議場 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1831.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1856.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
出席委員陳委員招致等一百十三年內席官員行政院院長卓榮泰主席院長韓國瑜報告事項第一案宣讀扁院第十一屆第三會席第二三次會議議事錄決定確定第二四至八十四十六至三百五十案均決定交互相關委員會審查處理或交互相關委員會第三案決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1857.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1868.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
禁貨毒與相關提案併案協商第九至十三案決定併案禁貨毒與院長召集協商第十五案決定定期舉行會議邀請審計長列席報告審核經過並備諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1873.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1892.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
第三百五十一案 為考試院秘書長涵送考試院一百一十五年度施政計畫第三百五十二案至三百五十五案為內政委員會等所提出報告案執行事項 本院委員執行部門一見討論事項第一至三案均決議通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1894.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1920.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
行政院長提出丹納斯臺翁及728豪宇災後護援重建專案報告並答覆質詢決定一 將各委員發言紀錄及書面質詢函送行政院請就位答覆部分予以書面答覆二 已提出的書面質詢尚未登載公報則一律補刊其他事項一 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1922.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1941.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
114年8月8日朝野黨團協商結論一件民進黨黨團提議變更議程一頁不予通過宣讀完畢動議會針對第三會期第24次會議的議事錄並沒有委員或黨團提出錯誤及遺漏之處我們現在做一下決定第三會期第24次會議議事錄確定請宣讀第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1943.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1970.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第二案 總統資委選紀部審計長陳瑞銘任期於一百十四年十月一日屆滿自依據憲法第一百零四條規定提名陳瑞銘繼續任選紀部審計長資勤同意案前衆委員會間交全院委員會審查 宣言完畢前院會有異議 面議通過下案第三案 本院委員黃建豪等二十二人離去海關進口稅責不分稅責修正策案前衆委員會間交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1971.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1973.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
無異議通過下案無異議通過下案無異議通過下案 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1990.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2018.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第六案 本院委員劉許廷的十七人離聚文化創意產業發展法第十條追議條務修正草案柴旭永會兼交交務及文化委員會審查 宣告完畢第七案 本院委員林月琴的二十四人離聚少年事件處理法第八十三條追議條務修正草案柴旭永會兼交司法及法制部委員會審查 宣告完畢第八案 本院委員徐小新的十六人離聚人工智慧基本法草案柴旭永會兼交交務及文化交通兩委員會審查 宣告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2018.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2048.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
報告議員會報告事項第八案現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商請問議員會有異面議本案禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商下議案第九案本院委員賴世寶的二十七任理據豁稅條例第十二條居五條維修正常案財修委員會見交財政委員會審查宣傳完畢報告議員會報告事項第九案現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商請問議員會有異面議本案禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商下議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2049.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2073.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
第十案 本院委員王玉敏等16人離去 家庭暴力防治法部門條文修正草案陳修永會監教社會福利及衛生環境司法及法治兩委員會審查 宣言為併第十案 本院委員鄭烈才等18人離去 社會救助法部門條文修正草案陳修永會監教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣言為併第十案 本院委員高清素美等19人離去 原住民族文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2074.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2088.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
原住民族委員會組織法第3條 第4條及第6條之一條維修正常案前衆委員會兼交司法及法制內涉兩委員會審查 宣告完畢委員會報告事項第13案現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商請委員會有異議沒有異議本案禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商 下議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2104.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2131.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第十四案 本院委員王美惠等17人離聚擔當四颱風及7.28豪雨災後復原重建特別條例草案財修委員會見 擬請院會議黨團協商結論進一步二讀與相關提案平安協商宣讀完畢第十五案 本院委員蔡宇等32人離聚擔當四颱風及7.28豪雨災後復原重建特別條例草案財修委員會見 擬請院會議黨團協商結論進一步二讀與相關提案平安協商宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2132.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2154.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第十六案 本院委員邱盈盈的二十三人理據擔當四颱風及七二八後雨災後復原重建特別調理草案陳秀園會見 擬請院會議黨團協商結論進覆二讀與相關提案平安協商宣讀完畢第十七案 本院委員賴慧媛的二十三人理據擔當四颱風災後重建特別調理草案陳秀園會見 擬請院會議黨團協商結論進覆二讀與相關提案平安協商宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2160.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2179.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第十八案 本院委員吳麗華等21人擬聚擔當司臺峰及728候與災後復員重建特別條例草案陳修揚會見內政委員會議黨團協商結論進覆二讀與相關提案並且寫上 宣讀完畢第十九案 本院委員吳麗華等21人擬聚行政區劃程序法草案陳修揚會見將內政委員會審查宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2182.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2189.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第二十一案委員會函送《台灣與澳門避免航空企業雙重課稅協議》一百十四年第二季季雙門延程效報告陳秀永會借交內政委員會處理宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2203.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2226.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第二十二案 前紀委韓總公告中華民國一百十四年丹納斯颱風風災災區範圍為坦丹市 併自一百十四年七月五日生效陳修緣會見交內政委員會 宣讀完畢第二十三案 前紀委韓總公告中華民國一百十四年丹納斯颱風風災災區範圍新增嘉義縣嘉義市及高雄市部分 併自一百十四年七月五日生效陳修緣會見交內政委員會 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2230.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2253.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第二十四案 行政院函誦台英提升貿易夥伴關係之數位貿易能源與淨零排放及投資三項領域協議英文本 英文本及中英文陳修永會兼交經濟 外交及國防兩委員會宣讀完畢報應會本案 臺灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交經濟 外交及國防兩委員會審查 下一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2253.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2282.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第25案 行政院行為修正一所得基本稅額條例第八條第一項鎖定營利事業所得基本稅額之徵收率並自一百十四年度生效財政委員會兼交財政委員會宣布完畢第26案 行政院行為修正行政院處規程部分條文及行政院編制表財政委員會兼交司法計劃財政委員會宣布完畢第27案 行政院函送總統府軍人權益申訴實現處理辦法財政委員會兼交司法計劃財政委員會宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2283.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2284.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
無異通過下頁無異通過下頁無異通過下頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2311.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2336.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第30案 行政運航維修生入海空軍刑法第54條 定項第3款 利用以確認檢驗判定檢出毒病品項及濃度值 並自114年7月12日生效 裁修委員會監交司法及法治外交及國防兩委員會 宣讀完畢第31案 海洋委員會和中華民國臺灣政府與索馬利蘭共和國政府海巡合作協定影本 裁修委員會監交內政外交及國防兩委員會 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2336.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2361.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
包園會第31案由臺灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交內政 外交及國防兩委員會審查下議案第33案海洋委員會寒松海洋保育法海洋庇護區申請案件收費標準陳修緣會兼交內政委員會宣讀完畢無異通過下議案第33案海洋委員會寒松海洋庇護區劃定辦法陳修緣會兼交內政委員會宣讀完畢無異通過下議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2362.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2378.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
第34案 海洋委員會橫送海洋庇護區之核心區從事科學研究監測或調查活動統一辦法 全球委員會建交內政委員會宣讀完畢第35案 海洋委員會橫送海洋保育法順行細則 全球委員會建交內政委員會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2379.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2393.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第36案海洋委員會函送海洋保育獎及課程實施辦法陳修委員會結交內政委員會宣布完畢第37案海洋委員會函送劃定海洋庇護區之核心區損失補償辦法陳修委員會結交內政委員會宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2397.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2415.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
第38案 海洋委員會含送海洋保育審議會設置辦法 全球委員會建交內政委員會 宣布完畢第39案 海洋委員會含送海洋保護區以外海洋其他有效保育措施之區域認定辦法 全球委員會建交內政委員會 宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2416.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2440.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第一次選案 海洋務委員會含送《公告海洋保育法》第28條第三項之書面告知格式 產修委員會結交內政委員會 宣讀完畢第一次選案 海洋務委員會含送《海洋保育觀察員資格取得及管理辦法》產修委員會結交內政委員會 宣讀完畢第一次選案 海洋務委員會含送《海洋庇護區之緩衝區及永續利用區內申請許可辦法》 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2443.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2457.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第四十三案 海洋委員會橫送海洋生物資源調查及保育措施執行辦法第四十四案 海洋委員會橫送海洋動物培育或野方執行人員教育訓練證書費收費標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2462.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2485.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第四十五案 海洋委員會函送取締或舉辦違反《海洋保育法案》兼獎勵辦法陳修委員會兼交內政委員會宣傳完畢第四十六案 海洋委員會農業部函送《海洋生物服務域措施辦理原則及實施辦法》陳修委員會兼交內政經濟良委委員會宣傳完畢第四十七案 農業部海運修正政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2485.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2502.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
部門執行權照護管理規則第六條之一及第八條條文財修委員會建交經濟委員會宣讀完畢第四十八案金融監督管理委員會海外修正公開發行公司財務報告及營運情形公告宣佈特殊使用範圍辦法第三條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2505.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2524.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第四十九案金融監督管理委員會海外修正住宅地震防線危險分散機制實施辦法部分條文財修委員會建交財政委員會宣布完畢第五十案金融監督管理委員會海外修正金融消費者保護法第四條第二項授權規定財修委員會建交財政委員會宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2525.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2545.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第五十一案 財政部喊維修生財政部國有財政署編支票 財修委員會兼交司法及法制財政兩委員會 宣讀完畢第五十二案 教育部喊維修生教保服務人員條例順行細則第九條及第十二條條文 財修委員會兼交教育及文化委員會 宣讀完畢第五十三案 教育部民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2546.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2572.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
原住民族委員會 海外修正各位其中的一項學校及幼兒園原住民族與獅子培育及併養辦法陳修委員會兼交教育及文化內政兩委委員會宣讀完畢第五十四案文化部橫送國家鐵道博物館儲備署門票收費標準陳修委員會兼交教育及文化委員會宣讀完畢第五十五案文化部海外修正文化創意產業發展法第十條正義檢舉案件處理及獎勵辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2576.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2590.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第56案 文化部韓文修正古蹟修復及暫利用辦法第11條條文第57案 文化部韓文修正水下文化資產保護區化石及管理辦法第25條16條文第56案 文化部韓文修正水下文化資產保護區化石及管理辦法第25條16條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2597.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2615.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第五十八案 交通部內政部海外修正違反道路交通管理事件統一採訪基準及處理細則第二條附表並自114年6月30日實行財修委員會兼交交通內政兩委委員會宣讀完畢第五十九案 交通部內政部海外修正道路交通標誌標先號設置規則第170條條文財修委員會兼交交通內政兩委委員會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2620.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2623.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
無異議通過下言無異議通過下言 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2641.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2654.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
第六宣案 考試院行政院行為公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法明確修正委公務人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法並修正條文裁處院會見交司法及法制度委員會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2655.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2678.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
第六十三案 考試院行政院行為修正 各警官適用議事人員人事條例主義藍標 陳修緣會建交司法及法政務委員會 宣傳完畢第六十四案 考試院行政院行為114年5月15日修正 各警官學校聘護人員離職及與辦法 第三條條完整實行日期定自114年7月1日實行 陳修緣會建交司法及法政務委員會 宣傳完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2680.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2703.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
第69案 環境木炭為廢止水中生化需要量檢測方法 NIEAW-510.55B 全區委員會兼交社會福利及外向環境委員會 宣布完畢第66案 環境木炭送排放管道中總氮金化合物等自動檢測方法 新生物業粒子化專層法 NIEA-723.77B 全區委員會兼交社會福利及外向環境委員會 宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2704.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2722.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第67 環境部海外廢止排放管道中總氮氫化合物等自動檢測方法心酸火液粒子化專測法NI1A723.76B全球運用會建交社會福利及核心環境運用會巡弋委員第68 環境部反送水中生化血氧量檢測方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2722.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2745.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
NIAW510.56B 財修委員會 接交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢第69案 環境部海維修生乾淨時回收清除處理費費率 財修委員會 接交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢第70案 環境部海維修生容器回收清除處理費費率 公告事項 立下副表財修委員會 接交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2747.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2767.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
第七宣案 環境部卡維修生物品或其包裝容器及其應付回收清除處理責任之業者範圍公告事項第六項 第六項主義及第一項表一 第二項表二陳修援會建交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣讀完畢委員通過報議會第七十二案至五百四十案 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2769.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2796.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
會請依序宣讀其中第七十二、八三至八十八、九十、九十一、一百三、一百三十二、一百三十四、一百四十九、一百五十六、一百七七、兩百一十九、兩百二十五、兩百三十二、四百五十七、四百七三、四百八十一、四百八十六、五百二十九案台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查宣讀之後以上提案均改交相關委員會審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2798.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2825.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
區議案均照程序委員會意見通過請委員會有異議沒有異議我們就開始宣讀宣讀之後通過請宣讀第七二案是第166案內政部第167案原住民組委員會第168案是第214案海洋委員會第215案國防部第216案是第233案財政部第234案是第273案金總監督管理委員會第274案是第276案行政院主席總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2825.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2854.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
第二屆7案 指第287案 教育部第288案 指第311案 核能安全委員會第312案 指第322案 國家科學及技術委員會第323案 指第324案 中央研究院第325案 指第432案 交通部第43案 指第451案 行政院公共工程委員會第452案 指第456案 司法院第457案 指第458案 監察院第459案 考試院第460案 指第470案 立法院秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2855.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2875.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
第四期一案 集體四期二案 權序部第四期三案 集體四八九案 房屋部第四九零案 集體四九一案 股市管第四九二案 集體四九三案 財政部第四九四案 集體四九七案 金融監督管理委員會第四九八案 集體五一五案 文化部第五一六案 集體五二六案 數位發展部 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2875.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2901.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
第五案 經案 追締五三五案 衛生福利部第五三六案 國家發展委員會第五三 經案 追締五四零案 國立故宮博物院判為一百十四年度中央政府總運算中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第五期特別運算等運算決議分別檢訟相關報告宣讀完畢委員會第五百四十一案 以下一併宣讀宣讀後準語被查 請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2901.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2902.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
好 謝謝報議員會現在我們開始進行討論事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2930.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2954.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例草案行政院韓情審議及本院國民黨團、臺灣民眾黨團、陳庭飛委員等、林靜憲委員等分別提案經第三會期第二四次會議的決定,併案盡附二讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2956.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2983.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
並請本席負責召集協商王美惠委員等蔡易瑜委員等邱益穎委員等賴慧園委員等伍麗華委員等分別提案經第三會期第25次會議決定盡附二讀與相關提案並按協商官員會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2985.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3003.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
立法院黨團協商結論時間114年8月13日星期三下午23時12分至7時21分地點立法院紅樓302會議室協商主題甘納斯颱風及728豪雨災禍復原重建特別條例草案案協商結論一 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3004.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3030.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
寫上通過名稱第一條至第八條及台灣民眾黨黨團提案第九條第十條均含立法說明如附件一二 通過附帶決議實項如附件二三 院會不再新收附帶決議四 各黨團委員提案及修正動議均列入公報紀錄含台灣民眾黨黨團提案第七條委員陳廷輝等17人提案第五至第九條 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3031.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3059.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
委員武麗華等21人提案第6條第7條等5 本案於8月15日星期五院會上午報告事項必進行處理處理必在請行政院院長及相關部會所長依原定議程於同日列席報告備詢6 各黨團同意本案於同日完成三讀並不提出附議條次引述條文部分文字及原引條次授權議事人員處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3061.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3089.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
本案三讀後發言由臺灣民眾黨黨團推派一人民進黨黨團推派二人國民黨黨團推派二人輪流交叉發言順序授權一事處理協商主持人韓國瑜江啟臣協商代表傅坤祺王鴻維羅志強鄭天才柯建民吳思耀陳培宜黃國昌張其凱陳昭芝宣讀完畢請問院會對以上協商結論有無異議沒有異議我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3091.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3116.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
本案就主條討論時 進行協商結論進行處理丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例草案 請宣讀名稱照協商條文通過 請宣讀名稱丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例 宣讀完畢照協商名稱通過 請宣讀第一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3117.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3145.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
第一條 為安全有效迅速推動丹納斯颱風及飢餓爆紅雨至災後復原重建工作及災民救助落實專管專用並強化監督特制定本條例本條例為規定者以災害防救法及其他相關法律之規定辦理但其他法律規定較本條例更有利於災後復原及災民重建者適用最有利之法律宣讀完畢趙協商條文通過 請宣讀第二條 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3146.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3157.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
第二條本條例鎖定災區為因丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後之受創地區其範圍有行政院公告之宣讀完畢照協商條文通過請宣讀第三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3157.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3176.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
第三條本條例最主管機關為行政院公共工程委員會本條例最中央主行機關為中央各目的事業主管機關地方主行機關為直轄市政府縣市政府及鄉鎮市直轄市三地原住民區公所宣讀完畢照協商條文通過請宣讀第四條 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3177.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3192.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
第四條本條第一範理是災區復原重建項目主項一 農業設施一 農路林道及農業運輸設施二 溫室網市 倉促 畜舍 禽舍 化製廠堆肥廠 資產市及農機具市三 農作物 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3194.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3213.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
補職與種苗等設施及設備四 農業機具及設備五 漁港漁船及養殖設施二 電力系統一 編電所及特高壓以上輸電線路二 配電網防災任性三 路單及公共照明設施四 緊急備用電力系統移動式電源 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3213.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3227.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
自發自用電源及儲能等微電網設施三 電信系統及有線廣播電視系統一 公眾電信網路二 行動通信基地台車三 衛星通信邊緣設施四 有線廣播電視系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3229.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3250.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
4.自然水瓦斯基燃氣設施1.自然水及檢疫自然水設備2.瓦斯基燃氣管線3.家園及公共設施1.災損住宅拆除修繕補助及促進補貼2.公共建築學校及政府機關構設施3.文化資產與原住民族文化健康戰支緊急搶修及修復 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3251.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3260.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
六 水利設施一 河川排水上升下游系統實施理農田水利觀看系統海岸防護設施疏進清淤及土方清淤處理二 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3263.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3284.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
雨污水下水道及道路排水三 三部地整治及土石流防治四 淨流分擔出流管制及在地滯洪措施五 縣市管河川排水設施災後復原重建工程及跨越中央管河川排水平井段橋樑改建七 道路及交通一 道路橋樑及隧道 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3285.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3300.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
二 道路邊坡防護及護岸工程三 交通耗質標誌與護欄等附屬工程及設施八 環境衛生復原一 災後廢棄物清理 環保設施修復及環境復原二 災後疾病防治 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3301.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3318.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
九 社會復原及產業促進一 災害救助心理輔導及社會支持二 振興地方產業及企業災後跌利貸款等復原措施三 文化觀光旅遊振興四 農業聽人災害現金救助及跌利貸款利息補貼等復原措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3319.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3346.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
五 商家援助生產設備代換及產業設施復原十 其他經各中央執行機關認定有復原重建必要之項目辦理前項復原重建項目發給津貼補助救助慰問金 工資及其他給予職資的條件基準金額應解副文件等會認為通貨委辦事項及其他相關事項之辦法由各中央執行機關定之宣讀完畢照協商條文通過 請宣讀第五條 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3347.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3370.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
第五條 本條例所需經費上限為新台幣600億元 則順行事變化擬定相關計畫分期編列特別預算及預算編制與執行不受預算法第23條 第62條及第63條規定之限制前項所需經費來源 等以營用以前年度稅計剩餘或舉借債務之印及每年度舉借債務之額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3371.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3383.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
不受國共債務法第五條第七項規定之限制中央政府總預算及特別預算與本條例實行期限之舉下的度和計數不得超過該期間總預算及特別預算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3386.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3406.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
及特別預算稅出總額度合計數之15%本條例實行期間中央政府所舉借的一年雙公共債務未償餘額預算數應依公共債務法第五條第一項規定辦理地方執行機關辦理本條例及災害防救法規定事項所需經費中央政府得核實 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3407.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3436.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
給予補助中央執行機關並得同意受補助之地方政府以代收代付方式執行為因應各項災需救災及復原重建工作之緊急需要中央執行機關得報監監政院統一後於第一項特別宣案未完成法定程序前先行支付起義部分並送立法院備查中央政府補助地方執行機關之經費地方執行機關因依補助之目的及項目之用不得已作他用 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3436.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3458.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
宣讀完畢第六條本條例鎖定災區不再依災害防救法第51條規定公告之災區範圍者及復原重建準有該法有關災區之規定宣讀完畢第七條依本條例規定自各執行機關領取之津貼補助救助慰問金 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3459.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3475.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
公資及其他給予免貸所得稅依本條例規定資格執行機關領取之津貼補助救出慰問金公資及其他給予不得作為抵銷扣押公單保護強制執行之標的宣讀為畢在寫上條文通過請宣讀第八條 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3476.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3496.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
第八條 依本條例編列預算之中央各部會應於本條例實行後兩個月內提出災後復原重建計畫本條例編列預算之中央各部會應將預算之工作計畫實施內容概述及預計實施進度按計送立法院被查 宣讀完畢照宣傳條文通過 請宣讀第九條 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3498.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3524.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
第九條主管機關應設置資訊網站專區提供並與搜尋得以理解之完整資訊主動按月定期公開本條例下列執行進度其內容一第二條鎖定災區之公告二第四條第二項由各中央執行機關訂定執辦法三前條鎖定之內容第十條宣讀完畢在寫上條文通過請宣讀第十條 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3525.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3547.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
第十條本條例及其特別預算施行期間自公佈日施行至中華民國一百十五年十二月三十一日至但第四條第一項第二款第三款及第六款施行至中華民國一百十六年十二月三十一日至本條例及其特別預算施行期間屆滿得經立法院同意延長之宣讀完畢照協商條文通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3548.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3552.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
報告院會全案已經經過二讀我們現在依照協商結論繼續進行三讀請宣讀經過二讀這條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3559.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3588.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例第一條為安全有效迅速推動丹納斯颱風及728豪雨之災後復原重建工作及災民救助落實專款專用並強化監督特制定本條例本條例為規定者依災害防救法及其他相關法律時規定辦理但其他法律規定較本條例更有利於災後復原及災民重建者適用最有利之法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3588.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3606.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
第二條本條例鎖定災區為因丹奧斯颱風及728豪雨災後這受創地區其範圍由行政院公告之第三條本條例之主管機關為行政院公共工程委員會本條例之中央執行機關為中央各目的事業主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3607.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3633.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
地方執行機關為直轄市政府縣市政府及鄉鎮市直轄市山地原住民區公所第四條本條例辦理之災區復原重建項目如下一 農業設施一 農路領導及農業運輸設施二 溫室網市倉促 畜舍 勤舍化石廠 堆肥廠 資材市及農機具市三 農作物補職與種苗等設施及設備四 農業機具及設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3637.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3655.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
五 漁港漁船及養殖設施二 電力系統一 變電所及特高壓以上輸電線路二 配電網防災潤性三 路燈及公共照明設施四 緊急備用電力系統 移動式電源自發自用電源及儲能等為電網設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3656.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3681.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
三 電信系統及有線廣播電視系統一 公眾電信網路二 行動通信基地台車三 衛星通信備援設施四 有線廣播電視系統四 自然水瓦斯級燃氣設施一 自然水及簡易自然水設備二 瓦斯級燃氣管線五 家園及公共設施一 災損住宅拆除修繕補助及租金補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3682.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3705.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
二 公共建築學校及政府機關共設施三 文化資產與原住民族文化健康戰爭緊急搶修及修復六 河川設施因河川排水上中下游系統式治理農田水利灌溉系統和防護設施疏去 淨域及土方清運處理五 二 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3706.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3729.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
與污水下水道及道路排水三山坡地層及土石流放置四淨流分擔出流管制及在地滯洪措施五縣市管河川排水設施災後復原重慶工程及跨越中央管河川排水平行段橋樑改建七道路及橋通一道路橋樑及隧道二 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3730.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3757.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
道路邊坡防護及護岸工程三 交通耗質標誌與護欄等附屬工程及設施八 環境衛生復原以災後廢棄物清理環保設施修復及環境復原二 災後疾病防治九 社會復原及產業促進以災害救助心理輔導及社會支持二 振興地方產業及企業災後地利貸款等復原措施三 文化觀光旅遊振興 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3758.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3785.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
四 農業聽訊災害現金救助及滴滴貸款利息補貼等復原措施五 商家援助生產設備汰換及產業設施復原十 其他經個中央執行機關認定有復原重建必要項目辦理前項復原重建項目發給津貼補助救助慰問金 工資及其他給予職資的條件 基準金額應解封文件等委任委託或委辦事項及其他相關事項執辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3786.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3809.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
由各中央执行机关定制第五条本条例所需经费上限为新台币600亿元得适形式变化拟定相关计划分期编列特别预算其预算编制于执行不受预算法第23条第62条及第63条规定之限制前项所需经费来源得以已用以前年度税计生予或取借債务之应 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3810.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3821.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
其每年度舉借債務者額度不受公共債務法第五條第七項規定之限制中央政府總預算及特別預算與本條例稅刑期間之舉債額度和計數不得超過該期間總預算及特別預算稅出總額度和計數之15% |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3831.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3847.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
本條例實行期間中央政府所舉借之一年上公共債務未償餘額預算數因依公共債務法第五條第一項規定辦理地方執行機關辦理本條例及災害防救法規定事項所需經費中央政府得何時給予補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3848.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3876.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
中央執行機關並得同意受補助之地方政府以代收代付方式執行為因應各項災區救災及復原重建工作者緊急需要中央執行機關得報信協助院同意後與定向特別預算案未完成法定程序前先行支付其一部分並送立法院備查中央政府補助地方執行機關之清費地方執行機關因依補助之目的及項目之用不得已作他用 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3877.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3906.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
第六條本條例鎖定災區不在依災害防救法第51條規定公告之災區範圍者其復原重建準用該法有關災區之規定第七條本條例規定資格執行機關領取執經貼補助救助慰問金工資及其他給予免納所得稅依本條例規定資格執行機關領取執經貼補助救助慰問金工資及其他給予不得作為抵銷扣押供單保或強制執行之標的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3907.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3927.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
第八條依本條例編列預算之中央各部會應於本條例實行後兩個月內提出災害復原重建計畫本條例編列預算之中央各部會應將預算之工作計畫實行實施內容概述及預計實施進度按計送立法院備查 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3929.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3948.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
第九條 主管機關應設置資訊網站專區提供便於搜尋得以理解之完整資訊主動按閱定期公開本條例下列執行進度及內容一 第二條鎖定債區之公告二 第四條第二項由各中央執行機關訂定之辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3948.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3978.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
三 前條鎖定之內容第十條本條例及其特別預算實行期間自公佈日實行至中華民國一百十五年十二月三十一日至但第四條 第一項第二款第三款及第六款實行至中華民國一百十六年十二月三十一日至本條例及其特別預算實行期間屆滿得經立法院同意延長之宣讀完畢歡迎各位 我們三讀條文已經宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3979.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4006.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
沒有文字修正好我們現在做以下決議丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例制定通過歡迎會本條例例條次及條文中之條次授權議事人員調整我們繼續處理朝野協商通過之附帶決議共十項請議事人員一併宣讀附帶決議之內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4010.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4039.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
通過附帶決議實項一 為營運花蓮馬灘岩塞湖的重大問題請行政院督導行政院工程委員會農業部經濟部及花蓮縣政府嚴提減災監測疏散和工程方案二 災害重建應以人為本以恢復原有生活秩序為原則主管機關應協助災區地方政府篩選合格修繕合作廠商與專機人員清單建立修繕 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4040.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4056.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
銘合平台協助銘合在民修善事宜災區重建工程簽訂合約廠商需僱用人員時優先僱用災區事業者及優先僱用者政府應給予獎勵相關辦法由中央主管機關定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4058.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4074.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
因災害造成之光電設施毀損有嚴重污染環境之餘者主管機關應限其命業者移除藉其為移除者得依法處罰三 針對淹水50公分以下住屋請經濟部水利署邀請地方政府研議納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4075.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4103.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
予以救助四行政院以本特別條例之適用範圍內因疑病涵蓋楊柳颱風襲台所造成之災區得依本條例規定支應五考量楊柳颱風直接衝擊台東原準用丹納斯颱風及728海嶼災禍復原重建特別條例以利盡速復原六盤點原住民地區此次風災期間配合政務撤離族人依其處境給予 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4105.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4127.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
從優從素之專案急難救助7政府進而補助修繕對象除中低收入戶以外應納入經地方政府列冊之關懷戶完成災後復原重建8針對災損住宅建築物之拆除修繕與重建補助應考量落實經濟困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4130.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4146.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
請行政院研議提高補助金額以加速災禍復原重建久行政院與本特別條例之適用範圍應一併納入揚柳颱風襲台之災區依本條例規定之意以保障災區民眾生命財產之權益時 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4149.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4176.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
針對因水災致住戶淹水之救助不受門牌一戶計算淹水達50公分以上者除依水災災害救助總列及標準第7條發放救助外依本條例每戶發給新台幣2萬元具低收入戶或中低收入戶資格者每戶發給新台幣3萬元行政院承諾遵守本附帶決議宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4184.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4203.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
報告委員會我們依照協商結論均照案通過現在我們要進行完成立法程序後之發言依照協商結論由各黨團推派代表發言首先請張祺凱委員發言王美惠委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4216.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4217.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
不介意的那些 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4225.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4252.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
感謝大家不分黨派我們快馬加鞭今天完成了丹納斯跟728好以後的復原重建特別條例這裡面有非常多的各黨各派也包括台灣民眾黨對我們災民的關懷跟我們的堅持今天通過的三讀條文有台灣民眾黨提出的四大堅持跟重點第一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4253.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4274.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
加碼補助第二個加速重建第三個避免非法移用要專款專用所以我們訂了防偽責條款第四要求要公開透明國會監督在加碼補助的這個區塊我們在明文裡面明定了第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4275.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4298.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
要排除一個門牌只有一戶因為這是受災的很多民眾一個門牌裡面可能有好幾戶另外補助的這個標準從現有的規定之外我們要求每一戶再增加只要是淹水超過50公分的一戶增加2萬塊中低收入戶跟低收入戶增加3萬塊錢另外加速重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4299.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4313.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
明確要求在明年底之前要完成所有的重建只有在電力跟通信還有水利這部分延後一年到後年要完成另外防偽責條款是因為審計部明確提出說 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4315.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4329.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
發現台南市在用這個地下道的這個青葉預算竟然非法挪用了九千多萬所以我們明定一定要專款專用我們中央不是給地方這是要救災的復建的這個整個復原重建的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4330.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4349.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
一定要依照目的跟項目不能夠有任何非法的挪用另外我們要求公開透明國會監督中央部會在兩個月內要提出整個重建的計畫然後中央部會把你每一季執行的狀況要送到立法院來被查而且要設置資訊的網站專期每個月公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4370.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4374.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
謝謝張祺凱委員發言接下來請王美惠委員發言王育民委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4383.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4383.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
大家来 大家来 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4395.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4419.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
謝謝感謝我們所有的電視機朋友我們的鄉親家庭大家看到今天在這個宴會裡面今天為了這個風災的條款經過三度也在這個禮拜三經過院長的條約協商之後我今天來完成尤其剛才 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4420.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4439.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我聽到院長說三道通過的時候想到我們七位那兩個在下的心我相信無論哪一套都為了百姓來撇平來請主以神 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4440.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4448.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
所以說在這個過程當中我們在海的錢是560億提供到680億在這個橋的學生裡面我們有很多人都覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4456.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4479.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
不需要做不夠的但是在這個過程當中我們可以提出草野學生來賓加強高昂的陷阱來賓我覺得很久很久沒有看到我們這次這麼協和 這麼努力這麼有效率的來通過這個案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4484.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4502.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
雖然天災無情也不夠我們的團結有愛所以在這個規定當中我們可以早日來訪戰這個災害因為在這個災害發生的當中非常地困苦非常地難過所以在今天的三十不是你我會開心是災民 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4514.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4525.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
可以有更好的保障以上謝謝王美惠委員的發言接下來我們請王育民委員發言賴惠元委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4534.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4549.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
院長各位委員大家好很高興今天我們有關於丹納斯颱風災後重建條例順利三讀通過國民黨黨團在第一時間我們率先提出了整個災後重建條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4550.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4570.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
也積極的召集協商更感謝韓院長禮拜三召集協商當中大家迅速的有了共識今天順利完成三讀在這當中國民黨堅持重塑的原則就是救災重建一定要盡速的完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4570.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4591.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
有太多的災民無論是嘉義台南的民眾他們還住在這個帆布遮蓋的房屋當中下大雨下一個颱風來他們都非常的焦慮無比所以我們要求所有的重建單位在重建的過程當中一定要秉持重塑的原則盡快完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4592.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4611.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
第二點我們也給予了最高的預算在我們的這個條例當中我們把560億提高到600億的重建預算就是希望讓我們所有受災的災民農民還有這一些企業他們都可以得到應該有的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4613.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4632.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
所以我們也希望之後行政院提出的相關預算都必須秉持從寬的原則因為國會已經給了你們最高的預算第三點加速整個雲嘉南地區的防災韌性體系的一個建置跟打造包括從電力 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4634.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4655.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
水利還有通訊這一次的預算也通通都給了相關的預算可以讓政府機關來執行我們希望透過這樣的一個條例我們可以打造更堅韌的防災體系我們可以讓災區的所有的災民盡快回到正常的生活我們一起努力加油謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4660.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4683.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
謝謝王育民委員的發言接下來我們請賴慧媛委員請發言院長各位同仁大家早上七月八號大納斯風災跟七月二十八號豪雨的重創台南還有嘉義我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4684.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4714.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
在這兩個區域裡頭有很多的農作物還有基礎的設施我們的家園我們的產業都受到很嚴重的一個衝擊今天立法院三讀通過丹納斯颱風跟728豪雨災後復原重建的特別條例我們也謝謝將特別預算由本來行政院版的560億提升到現金的600億對災區我的故鄉而言這是一個非常重要的及時的一個支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4715.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4740.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我在這裡我希望我也謝謝因為這一個條例不僅就是增加大了一個軍會的規模況且它攘跨了項目更大那也讓地方政府在執行災後的一個重建更具有彈性同時也規劃了在整體我們施行期間的各種中長期還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4743.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4762.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
演成的一個基礎建設不管是電力還是電信還是水利我們也謝謝可以延長到116年的12月31號為災後的韌線建設一流的沖煮了一個時間那也謝謝各位黨團支持附帶的一個結議對淹水50公分以上的住戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4763.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4784.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
不再是以一個門牌號為限制並且加碼救助金一般的住戶是兩萬塊低收入跟中低收入是每戶三萬塊這個對弱勢的家庭來講是非常重要的也是救災更貼切的實際的一個需要再一次感謝大家整個過程裡頭其實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4785.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4806.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
很多的一個協助我們謝謝社會大眾那我們為中低收入戶爭取了現金的加碼我們希望重建之路不再孤單謝謝賴會員委員發言接下來請登記最後一位第五號張家俊委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4818.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4846.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
院長各位同仁早安風雨無情人間有愛今天立法院完成丹納斯颱風及728豪雨重建的特別條例三讀特別感謝韓院長的主持與協商促使朝野合作將多項的核心條文與補強措施納入也證明了朝野的團結合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4846.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4863.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
能夠產生非常大的力量這段時間我們看到無數家園被摧毀生活陷入混亂與不安我們知道那一份傷痛與焦慮只有親歷過的人才明白有多沉重我們心中惦記的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4864.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4880.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
是努力恢復家園的鄉親們特別條例的通過不只是一份法案更是給予他們實質的幫助與重建的希望在原有的條文基礎上我們更進一步的爭取更多的加碼與補強把經費上限從560億提高到600億讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4886.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4909.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所有的資源能夠更加及時的投入我們也支持淹水救助淹水50公分以上者每付多加發2萬元低收入戶或中低收入戶加發至3萬元50公分以下者也應該嚴議給予補助此外我們也要求重建必須優先聘用 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4910.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4930.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
災區的失業者參與復建的工資也必須納入免稅與免扣押的範圍內同時我們也要求中央部會必須每季向立法院報告重建的經費與使用的情況重建之路或許漫長但我們相信只要我們共同努力就能渡過難關 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4933.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4942.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
重建特別條例是我們給予災區的實質幫助與承諾我們會持續監督讓大家早日重回安穩的生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4948.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4968.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
謝謝張家俊委員的發言報議會我們討論事項已經處理完畢現在我們休息六分鐘休息之後十點整準時開會請行政院卓院長專案報告並備質詢請行政院院長以及相關部會首長一起列席我們先來休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5601.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5610.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
發言會我們現在繼續開會我們進行行政院左院長所提出新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效專案報告並備質詢我們現在請左院長進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5633.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5660.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
韓院長 江副院長各位委員先進我知道今天在這裡報告的這個事項關於打擊詐欺的工作國人一定不會滿意現在工作的進度但是我要利用報告的時間為一群一直努力在工作的工作同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5661.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5682.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
他們也許是檢警調的同仁也許是銀行的臨櫃人員也許是超商的服務人員也許是散佈在各個社區裡面的相關人員這一段期間以來確實全心全力的投入了整個打炸的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5684.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5710.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我雖然不敢期待這個報告讓所有的國人滿意但我誠懇的希望給予這一群工作的朋友們 夥伴們多一點的努力我也要求給我們多一點的時間我們會把該做的事情做得更多 做得更好我們期待一步一步的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5711.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5739.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
把這個全球性共同的犯罪行為當各國都使出了渾身解數在面對犯罪集團的時候台灣在這個工作上我們願意努力地達到我們所設定的目標以及今天我要向大家報告的是把這一群默默工作的夥伴們 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5740.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5756.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
在這段時間的工作的成果我不敢說成績 工作的成果向大院以及國人做一些綜合性的整理面對這種新型態的詐欺犯罪的趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5758.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5781.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
行政院今年也提出了打炸綱領的2.0我們從策略 從法制跟組織三方面分別來做各種的措施尤其是重點在於從上游的源頭的防治到下游的溯源查緝 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5783.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5807.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我們更重要的是在精準宣傳以及保護被害人有了新的措施跟方法我們利用人工智慧分析被詐欺受害人他主要的這些族群他的背景跟他的特徵包含他可能是學生他可能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5809.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5834.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
退休的人員也可能是某些特定行業的從業人員在過去七個月來發送了五千萬則的政府專屬的短碼簡訊來提醒來告警各位讓大家能夠了解到當你身處在這種新型犯罪時代當中如何提高警覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5836.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5864.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
同時我們跟全國一萬三千家的便利商店跟十六萬名金融機構第一線的服務人員通力合作共同推動市詐 賭詐 房詐跟主詐各種的工作今年的一到七月我們就攔阻了八十三億六千四百多元的可能犯罪金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5865.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5890.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
也協助警方逮捕了數百名的車手因此我要再一次利用今天在大院報告的機會向全國共同參與這項打詐工作的便利商店店長 店員銀行 信用合作社 農漁會櫃檯人員以及檢警調同仁再致上最高的感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5892.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5917.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
在中央跟地方政府通力合作底下以相關產業公司協力合作我們每個月受理詐欺案件的數量從去年的19000件一直到今年的7月下降到15000件下降的幅度是22.5%那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5922.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5945.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
財損的金額也從131億下降到81億下降的幅度是37.7%到底有哪些詐騙的行為是我們現在主力打擊的對象一個就是假投資第二個是假交友投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5947.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5974.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
第三個是假網購第四個是假買家騙賣家第五個是假檢警這五項犯罪形態已經佔受理案件的60%而且財損金額光這五項加起來就達到90%因此這五大類型是政府主要打擊詐欺的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5976.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5999.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
根據我們的統計民眾從遭到詐欺到報案的期間各種樣態有它的時間差我們以假投資詐欺為例將近有95%的受害者要在六個月內六個月他才會發覺自己受騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
6000.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
6028.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
因為一開始可能用各種的話術甜言蜜語投資等等的假象我們到六個月才知道平均來講才知道自己受騙因此相關的打詐的作為要在半年之後才能呈現出它打擊犯罪的一些成效另外假投資詐騙在2024年8月的高峰期每個月有175件 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
6031.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
6050.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
到今年的7月已經降到86件同期間詐騙的金額是最高峰期2024年的8月是2.8億到今年的7月降到1.3億這都有明顯的下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
6051.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6076.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
也就是我們實施的打炸綱領2.0以及所有的工作夥伴共同努力我們確實得到了一些看得到的數字的改變但打炸是一個長期的抗戰詐騙手法日新月異千變萬化所以打炸工作我們也會與時俱進不斷的翻新另外我們在五個 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6078.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6099.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
打诈的行为上分别有不同的做法第一个是试诈认识诈骗这个试诈我们从受害人背景的分析我们从他的分年龄分群众分族群来强化宣导今年的一到七月触及了 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6103.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6123.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
9872萬人次同時加強我們在金融機構 行員 超商 電源的試炸能力就是我們這麼多的人次我們給他進行了解讓他了解何謂炸棄的行為這也幫助了主動發現來通報遠景共同攔阻的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6124.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6150.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
第二個賭詐怎麼樣防堵詐騙政府已經跟LINE這個數位平台合作我們已經下架了7.3萬個涉及可能是涉及詐欺的異常帳號7.3萬並持續與網路通訊平台跟社交平台合作主動偵測下架這些可能涉詐的帳號這個工作會持續進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6153.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6178.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
第三個是防詐 防止詐騙我們現在大家最常用的Meta、IG、Google以及YouTube這個四大平台我們在新的打詐事法經大院審議通過之後我們利用這個手上的法律工具我們強力地要求它已經要求他們將廣告的實名制一一落實 落地化 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6179.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6204.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
目前新興起來的Trade也在九月份會納入管理因此這些個打詐平台都會在新的法律當中我們有效地來防治我們不僅要求它廣告要實名制甚至要求它在詐騙廣告發現之後要在我們給它的通知期限內必定要下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6205.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6234.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
他一定要履行這樣的義務跟責任並且在每個年底要發佈一個透明度的報告讓所有的國人來對這幾個平台我們來對它加以個人以及公眾的評斷什麼樣的平台對社會盡了它的社會責任值得我們信賴值得我們支持我們有大院通過的新市法就讓我們手上有這樣的工具也因此 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6235.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6250.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
对于Meta在过去这段时间它违反了一些实名制的做法我们已经对Meta开罚1600万而且它也照我们未来以后的相关规定一一的落实跟执行 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6251.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6269.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
第四點 在阻詐 就怎麼樣阻止詐騙上政府已經建立了一套疑似詐騙境內金融帳戶的預警機制透過這個所謂的鷹眼系統可以阻止民眾將資金匯往第一個可疑的帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6270.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6298.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
銀行端會幫大家做這樣的控管所以針對詐騙集團的勾結我們也有新的做法現在詐騙集團勾結到一些不守法不孝的律師或是地政士來騙取一些房地產所以我們也推動了地政作業的新制度會增加一些銀行或是不動產處理方面交易上的一些麻煩這是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6300.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6322.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
但我們都要相信我們也要感謝這些麻煩帶來的麻煩是一時可能保障的權利是永遠希望能夠在這些新的制度底下為國人守護大家辛辛苦苦自己得來的自己的財產讓他沒有受到安全的威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6324.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6329.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
因此在大家另外關心的所謂虛擬貨幣跟洗錢我們也輔導業者要強化關於風險預警的聯防作業在2024年的8月我們涉及詐騙在虛擬資產的金額有30億元左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6344.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6361.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
到了今年的7月稍稍下降到26億因為這個到底是一個新興的詐騙手法我們還在做全面的防堵未來我們隨著對這些虛擬貨幣的服務的幣商加強管理之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6362.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6374.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我們有能力可以把這個數字再往更合理的進步去做更多的努力希望大家大院也能可以在制度上法制上相關的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6375.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6400.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
最後一點是懲詐如何能夠懲罰這些詐騙集團截到今年7月檢警調已經查獲了詐騙集團2025團人員超15000人左右查扣的不法所得犯罪也達到了40億元也深化了跨境合作我們在執行跨境合作跟國外跨境合作的打擊犯罪方面一共有1271件 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6403.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6425.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
除了以上這幾項之外我們充分運用科技手法來分析滾動的檢討而且面對外籍人士政府針對外籍旅客來台我們已經在各機場提供了各種外語的宣導提醒旅客第一個不要以身試法第二個要謹記的 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6426.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6443.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
有一些行為應該要提高警覺同時對於外籍的移工除了我們在國際的平台上加強宣導之外我們也會配合外籍移工來自各種不同的國家我們用他的母語來宣導一些世詐的宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6445.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6468.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我們會廣泛的來做這些工作讓來的人是守法的在這裡幫助我們的家庭幫助我們的產業我們也協助他 保護他基本他的經濟的安全所以在這些個過程上面強化源頭管理完成建置網路詐騙通訊查報網也是我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6469.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6495.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
一年多來所做的一個相當大的一個進展所以每個月民眾會通報三萬則以上的可疑的詐騙的訊息給這個源頭上面的這個查報網另外我們在打詐儀表板165專線每天會把所有的行為太陽分析之後一一列舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6496.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6520.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
國人如果進去看就會知道哪些行為我們沒有想到的它確實是一個詐騙的行為用這樣的教育的方式讓國人知道不要深陷這種陷阱裡面這個是打詐儀表版在過去一年多以來我們持續要求有相當好的進展我們也希望國人多多的充分的利用這個打詐儀表版 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6521.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6549.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
此外我們利用科技的分析我們還有一項工作就是尋找潛在的被害人剛剛說過也許是學生 退休的而且可能比較有閒錢的這些朋友們我們把這些潛在的被害人找出來我們預警的告知他要面臨各種陷阱詐騙的時候提高警覺那這個對象我們已經通報了兩萬五千件 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6550.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6576.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
所以主要的形態有相當多有族群不同有時間差的對案件的了解不同而且打炸綱領2.0各項精進的作為我看到了是這些數字的表現但是我仍然知道這種數字不代表成果但是我至少看到了這一群工作夥伴的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6577.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6598.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我也知道如果是政府的策略不夠完整不夠全面不夠積極那我們會積極的全力的改進但是這一群默默工作的同仁們一定要得到社會給他們更多的努力跟支持他們才會持續的在他們的崗位上 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6600.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6622.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
檢警調的崗位上銀行員的崗位上超商這些服務人員的崗位上以及所有社區裡面的崗位上繼續陪著幫著每一個國人來防止詐騙集團的橫行所以今天我做以上的報告我知道我們的路還很遠因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6623.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6645.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
詐騙集團一直一直地冒出來新興的手法一直一直地出現但是只要我們有這一群工作同仁存在政府能夠積極地提出一些策略跟措施大院能夠適時地給予各種在法治面上的支持台灣向詐騙集團全力打擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6647.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6671.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
將這個全球共通的犯罪行為在台灣把它降到最低的這個目標我們有能力跟信心我們一定要達到謝謝大家好 謝謝卓院長的報告報言會我們現在開始進行委員質詢每位委員詢答時間不得超過15分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6673.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6682.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
輪到質詢委員如果不在場我們視為放棄首先請富坤齊委員質詢黃珊珊委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6709.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6729.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
主席請院長麻煩請卓院長備詢副院長好院長好從今天的打造到 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6731.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6758.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
立法院本院來做報告之後下禮拜二就是一般性補助款也要請卓院長到立法院來做相關的說明我想今天很重要的就是台灣現在面臨兩岸的不和平還有對美關稅的問題讓人民洪洪不安因為畢竟台灣85%的產業都是以外銷為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6760.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6788.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那此時此刻台灣人心必須要安定那詐騙集團的橫行已經行之多年立法院不斷的配合行政院給予必要的這些工具跟立法國會都是全面的來支持配合但是到現在為止114年8月 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6791.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6814.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
請問卓院長你剛剛報告完畢到底我們打炸有沒有成效行政院卓院長你身為閣僱你滿不滿意現在打炸有沒有成效政府機關滿不滿意我覺得沒有國人會滿意現在的打炸工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6816.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6842.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
但是我剛剛說過這一群工作的同仁還是值得鼓勵國人不滿意的話那院長滿不滿意我自己要求我們從政策上多給予更多的支持我們也給這些工作同仁更多的鼓勵我們從數字的下降來看是有進展的院長不回答我們就來看一下詐騙逼死一家五口啊敲醒政府的警鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6845.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6870.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
詐騙集團逼死台中一家五口政府如何重視還是有曾經關心過詐騙案嗎來 下一頁內湖雙屍母女遭詐騙輕生為了謀財不惜害命這個來累積一六百個詐騙案嫌犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6874.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6902.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
被遣送大陸被遣送大陸這個真的是台灣之光是嗎台灣的詐騙已經橫行到全世界然後呢在海外設機房在台灣訓練好之後到海外去行騙全世界不只騙台灣人騙全世界的人只要全世界有華人的地方就是他們下手的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6903.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6930.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
然後這個被押解到大陸去啊這個沒有被判死刑啊大概一輩子也出不來來 下一頁這個炸團啊這個警察空間又逮捕25人炸團橫跨北中南運動員可以看一下嗎 再過來現在不是炸團而已還囚禁被害人然後凌虐致死 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6932.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6960.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
自由時報等等 再來台灣多數金箭浮屍 浮屍炸團黑吃黑 殺人滅口 再來短短兩週 台灣三地有看到三具浮屍 再來從2020年到2023年 因為2023年以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6962.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6988.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
大概警政署已經很懼怕人民在看這些資料2023年以後本席跟警政署要他們不做這個資料也不提供了以前在民國60年 70年那個時候台灣民風有多麼善良有一件服侍案全國查抓到為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6992.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
7007.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我們現在一年幾百件的腐蝕案幾百件的腐蝕案院長 本席再請教一次您對現在整個政府體系打詐的成果 您滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
7008.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
7037.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我認為我跟國人一樣都不會滿意現在呈現出來的成果但是委員剛剛說的那些治安的問題確實是問題它跟打詐之間有沒有百分之百直接的關聯這個值得我們再去分析但是我願意面對治安的問題我們從這個方向來做自我的檢討治安也是行政院的問題打詐也是行政院的問題這個數字讓院長了解就是難辭其咎 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
7039.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
7061.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
必須睜大眼睛好好來研究怎麼解決來為什麼我們台灣的詐騙如此的猖獗台灣只有6%的人沒有被詐騙過台灣為什麼成為詐騙之島這都媒體的報導再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
7069.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
7097.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
剛剛院長在報告有提到希望立法院能夠全力支持來配合去年打詐釋法我們是不是配合了行政院 配合了法務部打詐新釋法也通過了但是我們完全配合法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
7098.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
7117.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
配合行政院配合警政署所有需要的工具所有司法勤制單位需要的立法立法院通過以後越打越炸越打越炸 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
7119.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
7147.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
報告委員我剛剛的數字已經有說明了本席案件下降了百分之二十二今天下降了百分之三十七點五是不是下降我們一步一步來討論我知道這個數字不代表一種成果謝謝你啦你在這裡願會向全民告訴說我們的詐騙案有下降那我們就慢慢來看您剛剛也特別提醒大家要去看那個打詐儀錶板好 我們繼續來台灣為什麼一直被國際點名 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7150.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7177.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
詐騙王國跟洗錢中心台灣善良的寶島曾幾何時會成為國際的詐騙王國跟洗錢中心請您看清楚下一頁聯合國點名台灣是詐騙洗錢中心院長這都是今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7178.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7196.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
聯合國的報告4月22號發布的所以打詐釋法中洗錢防治法我們會盡力的把它發揮它的效力 要的工具國會都支持要的經費國會 國會也支持來 下一頁來113年打詐行動綱領去年13.9億今年73.5億一次增加5.6倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7208.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7217.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
院長增加了這麼多錢我們來看一看成果再來2020到2024從2023年2024年從新政府上台從原本2020年詐騙金額42億到去年的487億 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7236.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7254.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
到今年上半年就481億現在是確確實實聯合國的報告台灣是全世界第一名的詐騙王國院長這個數字有點諷刺院長看一下去年2024年跟2020年 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7262.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7264.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
2020年42億2024年487億遭詐騙金額今年1到6月480億這是不是歷史的偶然 看下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7275.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7290.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
統計方式不一樣那這個是跟委員報告 這個是統計方式資料來源就是剛剛要跟本席解釋本席沒有請你發言 本席沒有請你發言委員 我講一句本席在跟你討論統計方式不一樣沒有關係 因為剛剛院長的報告本席聽得很清楚 請我們看打詐飲料版 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7299.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7311.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
打造業老闆顯示出來而且這是歷史的偶然看一下今年1月到6月份竟然是888888件這數字怎麼會這麼偶然打造業老闆公佈的上半年的詐騙金額就481億院長再過來看審計部審計部的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7332.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7343.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
不要再講什麼資料又錯誤審計部看到沒有112年89億113年487億審計部資料有錯誤嗎不是審計部錯誤是統計的方式不一樣你可以講糾正檢察院 糾正審計部他的數字寫錯了再過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7363.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7390.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
7兆年犯案增加集中在詐欺院長我們的下一代也淪落至此再過來現在車手 車手看那個成長的幅度現在孩子們當車手比跑福菲恩塔賺的還多福菲恩塔是靠自己的勞力努力的去打拚 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7394.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7419.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
詐騙車手卻是用這種方式來賺錢就是我們的孩子趨之若鶩的工作行列這個是不是我可以來說明一下不需要 本席請你你可以到委員會去好好說明院長 我們今天是在跟院長探討資料都不是本席的都是正式公告的再看一下為什麼滿意度會下降這麼多一個行政團隊應該整體來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7423.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7450.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
為什麼有這些問題說使用的這些相關的人是不是有足夠的能力來處理這些問題院長 本席今天是語重心長本席很客氣希望院長能夠解決問題今天國會議員在這裡懇切地呼喊請院長拿出辦法來讓台灣不要成為詐騙之島 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7452.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7474.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
國民黨團 立法院都用全力來支持但是辦法要拿出來 能力要拿出來再來 我們希望我們執政者要把心思放在人民身上停止其他的政治動作 院長可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7477.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7504.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
行政院一直對於推動業務列為我們優先唯一重要的方向本期是希望共勉之啦好不好本期希望是請院長共勉之把心思放在人民身上不要放在政治身上下一頁藍白三預算這個事情其實各部會首長都說明得很清楚了請行政院各部會的官員不要再把這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7505.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7529.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
欺騙社會的行為不要再講再講 拜託不要再說了不要再說就好一句話 不要再說了增加預算因為有新的新增業務我們會配合嘛 就講嘛可以辦追加嘛你下禮拜不是要送進來了嗎我們在今年已經辦了已經增加在裡面了昨天不是通過了下禮拜要送進來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7530.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7555.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
對不對 是我們會很良善的來看待只要院方有需要行政院方有需要也符合人民的需求我們會給予支持嘛一句話 就是剛剛說不要再講這個沒業的事情不要再講了 好不好每個部位有增加是因為他已經列了新增業務昨天啊這個行政院會通過普發一萬塊這是真的跟院長來共勉之 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7558.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7574.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們面對美國這麼強大的經濟的壓力各國 先進的國家都在擴大內需 普發現金謝謝院長從善如流我想送到立法院來我們會在時程上盡量與你配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7576.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7597.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我期待整個任性的特別條例能夠緊迫的通過我們會依據編列預算我們會整體來一起討論好不好謝謝委員長當然院長會來 卓院長會再來報告我們也就謝謝了那我想這個蘇花安也正式來核定了讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7600.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7616.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
花東人有安全回家的路也謝謝院長您核定了我想擴大內需是很重要的當外在經濟有危機的時候內部我們要全面來提升所以在這裡請院長本席還會再就教花東塊的部分台灣島就這麼小 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7617.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7629.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
華東快 環島路要盡快來做本席為全力的支持 也全力的配合好不好 謝謝院長好 謝謝謝謝副國務卿委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請黃珊珊委員質詢陳培宇委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7650.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7652.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
謝謝主席我請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢黃委員好院長早我想今天打詐專報其實國人都非常的關心尤其是我認為詐騙正在傷害臺灣您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7673.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7686.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這是一個全球性的犯罪行為台灣在這個工作上面我們還要持續的加強還要更加油院長上任之後有所謂的打詐惡典禮的政策從市詐 堵詐 阻詐 懲詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7689.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7706.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
那您剛剛說了很多數字我想剛剛大家也都看到了數字現在的問題在於成詐一年前院長記得嗎我們在這裡在立法院通過了打詐專法這個專法通過了整整一年這一年來您覺得成效怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7708.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7729.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我們在市詐跟防詐阻詐方面前面做很多懲詐但是懲詐可能還需要在刑事訴訟法懲詐的部分院長知道刑事法庭跟我們法務部還有我們立法院甚至跟行政院的立場完全不一樣我們通過的專法被司法院打臉院長知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7731.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7744.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我覺得針點在於如何把犯罪的金額能夠取回以及對被害人如何加強我們去年七月通過了打詐專法經過一年到今年的一月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7745.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7768.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
最高法院開一個所謂的刑事大法去解釋我們當時為什麼立這個法立這個法的目的是什麼所以我們的立法意旨講得很清楚要如果你自白或自首繳回你的犯罪所得的話你可以減刑但是法院用所謂的繳回犯罪所得是他得到的酬勞所以一個車手繳回三千塊五千塊他就減刑了 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7769.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7784.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
今天這個法條已經被最高法院大法庭解釋成就是這樣了所以打臉行政院打臉法務部打臉立法院法務部長去年今年五月我問你你說你會修法有 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7785.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7803.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
法案立法院委員都已經提了案了法務部的草案有不敢拿出來院長你知道為什麼這個跟委員報告不敢拿出來為什麼這個法案現在在那個還在行政院審查所以院長在你桌上了沒因為還要再請司法院來一起來做一個討論我要問院長院長你看到了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7808.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7822.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
他要修法你知道嗎部裡面送出來草案通常程序上還有經過政委他一個月之後就修了我們6月21號立政委員會已經排了他也拿出他的草案了但到今天8月15號沒有任何影子 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7826.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7844.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
這對修法的方向應該是明確而且可以進行是什麼時候要送來這個立法一直這麼清楚這個司法院完全不聯絡院長我再告訴你更可笑的當天6月21號內政部排審法案的時候法務部把他的草案拿出來司法院的代表告訴我們他第一次看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7846.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7870.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
你們事先不聯絡了嗎你們在立這個法之前沒有告訴司法院你們的態度嗎第二個要說草案的有沒有跟他討論過呢這是在行政審查中一定會請司法院來表示意見院長我現在說的是一個行政院一個法務部如果我們的法案不跟司法院討論你再送過來就白搭所以現在行政審查中有請司法院來表示意見嗎你做的事情你都做了我知道可是我們司法院不理你啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7872.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7897.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
國務院長 你要不要去協調一下司法院跟行政院是不是不聯絡這件事情呢我們這個有修法 我們是修法的方向我們就採用德國的立法例來做一個修理我要問院長報告委員 我們包括這個保護被害人以及我要說的是 行政院跟司法院要不要聯絡當然 我們說除了包括這個保護被害人的修法再來修 立法院再幫你通過然後司法院照樣不判 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7898.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7917.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我都還沒講完保護被害人以及承受共犯幾個案子當中你要不要跟司法院溝通我說我們這個都會積極跟司法院在談判當中會積極跟司法院溝通就不會發生這種事我給你個時間現在是8月5號下個會期開議前你可以把法案審查來嗎審查完之後我們就會送到司法院你要什麼時候送到立法院來 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7924.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7938.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
審查他必須經過 打詐要打真的啦今天這個專報完了之後你法院還是這樣子辦 你撐什麼詐下個會席送過來可以嗎 當然是要打真的你我都可能受害我們旁邊的親人都可能受害 下個會席可以送來吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7939.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7959.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我們現在已經在 九月份可以送來吧九月份 下個會期我覺得應該是 一定可以送來 院長這很重要你的懲詐就在這裡面我現在給你看一個影片 這個的確是很重要所以我們那個草案不是只有這個個人的一個報仇說跟被害的損害的我現在要給院長看影片喔 謝謝26個被害 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7969.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7976.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
他是一個車手他交保了他出來教人家怎麼詐騙他在假釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7985.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7991.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
他說拿著他的判決書去詐騙集團一定會百分之百被錄取真的假的你看你這個判決書這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8020.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8039.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
好 請切掉院長 這是詐騙犯詐騙犯這麼囂張出來之後在假釋期間還可以拍這種影片然後告訴大家說他的判決書就是他的履歷表這在台灣 看到這個人也很年輕現在台灣的年輕人可能認為詐騙集團很光榮啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8041.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8055.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
現在才是這個問題我想這個是很可惡的一個行為很可怕很可惡這個假釋犯你查出來好不好這個個案查出來有沒有這樣的事情部長這個個案查出來這個在假釋的人查出來把這個個案要找出來這樣的行為如果還放在社會上讓他犯罪不應該這個先處理吧我們未來針對被害人的保護以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8071.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8094.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
具體的酋刑乃至於考慮到未來這些人的禁舍令我們都是在修法的概念當中趕快進來吧我們趕快幫你修吧不要再等了吧一年了成效如果只有這樣的話還有這麼一個影片的話我是覺得成效真的很不好下一個接下來是這是第一個今天大家都在談數字大家就看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8095.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8108.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這個數字剛剛部長一直說這是統計方法的問題我同意統計方法有問題不過這叫做之前都在當遮羞布遮羞布掀開之後所有的金額出來就不一樣這個原來統計數字是以警方做初步調查之後才排了一個數字現在是一個報案的一個數字本來就應該這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8121.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8142.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
之前就是在那邊遮羞吃案所以這個不能講說是遮羞吃案這個反正就是在那邊我等於是說之前就是故意不報現在就是按照被害人說的算不是這樣的接下來院長你看到這個數字還是觸目驚心第一個你們的數字我不知道我這個是我們從打債儀表板8月份的統計數字2024年到502億 12.2萬件現在2025年1到7月就566億 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8148.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8167.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
你剛剛說的下降我同意可能它逐步在下降但是統計起來還是很可怕而且我跟委員報告因為整個一個兆團的一個兆區的形態的一個改變以前是電化兆區所以那個金額比較少現在的建樹其實是有在下降的建樹小 數字大這也是一個投資的一個兆區所以它那個數額會比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8169.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8196.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
所以不要再自我感覺良好他是在增加所以大家看那個詐騙的數額也不能夠虧錢冒所以我們重視這個被害人跟被害的件數是有下降的一個趨勢來簡單的說這裡就是去年8月的數字這裡是今年7月下降的幅度當然緩慢但趨勢是有的我們會再努力你如果做這麼多事還沒有下降真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8197.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8198.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
請尊重一下執勳的委員好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8211.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8232.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以这个数字我希望看到的是它逐步的下降不管任何统计方式都不应该有这么大的偏差最严重的是诈骗里面投资诈骗占了多数投资诈骗我看到你们报告是说占了所有诈骗里面23%财存占了64%也就是说金额很高件数不见得最多 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8233.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8255.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
但是投資詐騙裡面很多都是所謂的六個月才發現九成五三十天之內一半數所以意思就是說養套殺的狀況很嚴重養套殺是因為他對金融不了解或者是他對現在的金融商品不清楚很容易受到所謂的社群很容易受到所謂的廣告他就受到的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8256.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8271.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以這個剛剛講了很多的社群軟體要管理第二個我們現在有一大的最大的問題是虛擬資產虛擬資產是金管會的管轄虛擬資產在113年度審計部的總決算的審核報告針對所謂的虛擬資產的管理其實院長 虛擬資產你知道現在的進度到哪裡了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8285.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8303.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們要用工會來管理所以虛擬資產它有一個專法也一樣送進去行政院了請問什麼時候要送來立法院是我們6月27號送進院院裡面由政務委員已經開始在審查已經開過會議院長你可以去催啊 快一點啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8304.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8329.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
為什麼大家都不知道在台灣買哪些業者是合法的搞不清楚狀況每天都被人家騙可以趕快讓專法進來讓所有願意在台灣落地合法的業者能夠盡快的讓他們納入管理讓所有的民眾知道我要去哪裡買虛擬資產不是現在到處被人家亂騙一通 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8332.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8357.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
金管會六月就進來了所以院長下個會期送來吧快吧 快嘛 加鞭案子都在 我就在等院長講了在你桌上你就趕快合啊只要趕快送到你桌上你來吹啊現在已經在那個審查中了他們都送了啦就是你們行政院我不知道啦動作慢半拍還是怎樣打詐是所有你的施政裡面我認為最急要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8358.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8374.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
而且都有法案只是還沒有送到院長桌上接下來是剛剛講的打詐成效神蹟部院長你覺得我們接下來還可以改善什麼打詐的成效神蹟部其實有講過耶你覺得現在還可以改善的是哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8376.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8389.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我覺得還是要從剛剛委員所提到懲詐後端就被害人的保護這方面應該再加強第二個我剛才說審計部他其實說過了他說其實最嚴重的是我們165人力不穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8390.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8407.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
第二個沒有建立打炸成效的量化指標現在好像建立了第三個是165的量能不足去每年仍然有將近五萬通電話就被漏接了所以院長165可能是一個需要改進的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8407.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8436.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那我會跟內政部跟165專線來檢討是不是要擴充 是 人力不足漏接電話 造成了後端沒有辦法懲詐我們用AI的方式來盡量能不能技術的導入這個可能要快再接下來一個是 院長剛剛也看到大家都說了我們發生台中豐原的五口的命案不管他們的原因是什麼他最嚴重的是他們求助我們走投無路 家破人亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8438.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8467.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這是台灣人最深切的悲哀為什麼他們沒有辦法得到幫助找不到人協助甚至走上絕路我想這個是一個很嚴重的另外一個就是他們碰到了更嚴重的是剛剛講你剛剛講地震拿房子去抵押炸團還幫他介紹金主去貸款在借永無止盡的借今天另外一個問題叫做融資公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8468.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8485.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
融資公司已經成為詐騙集團的共犯甚至有一些當鋪有一些相關的人他都變成跟詐騙集團說你們來借他錢繼續被我騙然後因為你是善良的第三人你借他錢你沒事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8486.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8512.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
所以現在的融資公司一樣經管會我們在立法院也提了融資公司專法然後監察院在114年的4月就告訴大家監察院認為說現在公股銀行融資給這些所謂的民營的租賃公司是有問題的第二個是 接下去是行政院應該要有專法院長 這件事情你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8513.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8542.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我們也在往這個方向在做經管會一直努力也時常跟我做說明現在經管會只管大不管小啦當然主委很幫忙已經納入經保法我們是逐步納管啦接下來主委我還是要講院長這件事情可能也是跟打詐有關如果融資公司我要先講馬來西亞在7月份通過了他們的轉法馬來西亞針對非銀行的借貸業者全部納入管理而且有監管條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8543.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8564.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
這是台灣可以學習 可以接近的可以嗎 院長至少要納入你的打詐的長期的目標我們不僅跨境打擊合作我們也希望吸取更多的國際好的經驗最後 我覺得政府的資訊公開是人民比較不會受到詐騙的重要的關鍵包括一萬塊 包括這些資訊都要完整的揭露好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8568.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8592.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝黃珊珊委員質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會首長備詢 謝謝卓院長喝口水吧 我在等你喝水好 謝謝接下來我們請陳培餘委員質詢 羅志強委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8599.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8617.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
好 謝謝院長那有請卓院長 謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢陳委員好好 卓院長早安我想我就藉著這個剛剛黃珊珊委員提到的165來 第一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8619.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8637.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這個是內政部警政署的165打詐儀表版我必須要說這個資訊其實對於非常多人想要認識詐騙真的很有幫助現在我的截圖上所顯現的數字是詐騙案件受理數也就是每一個當天有收到報案的電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8638.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8656.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我說的是有收到報案然後呢當時我們組織了多少的金額其實相關的數字非常非常清楚我想我要鼓勵這個部分因為剛剛院長您在做業務報告的時候也說在回答富坤啟文的時候你也說我們必須要持續給予現場的工作人員鼓勵這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8656.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8680.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
因為詐騙的科技詐騙的心法說實話是日新月異而且從古至今不管是童話故事民間真實的生活其實壞人走的都比好人還要快我想這個現實是我們目前在做打詐業務最大的困境所以要拜託行政院繼續支持這個打詐儀表版的工作我認為這個非常重要下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8681.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8700.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我覺得這個也很棒最新詐騙案例然後有非常非常多的故事甚至還有語音播放這一次為了要做這個打詐專報的跟院長您的對話我自己很認真看了這個網站看了很多我覺得這件事情我們還有沒有機會透過數位影音化 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8701.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8719.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
因為說實話大家現在每天回到家滑手機可能沒有力氣看這麼多文字我不確定像這樣的文字內容或者是原來這麼多奇奇怪怪的詐騙案例我們可以怎麼樣讓更多國人看見跟更多國人知道我先跟部長分享一個案例院長對不起來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8722.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8729.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這個是另一種注目這個是一個電視公司他們拍的專輯大概有30分鐘這裡面他們說記者在這裡面48小時連續拍48個小時他們記錄了165 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8737.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8752.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
接線人員的辛勞跟他們所面對的困境我想我必須要幫他們拜託部長跟院長有沒有可能我自己發現從這個片子裡面後來也上網查了一些困境一個是他們其實在第一線每天平均要接超過1500通電話這個是有接進來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8754.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8780.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
然後呢 這個電話當中他們不是只是告訴當事人說你真的被騙囉 你真的被騙了他們還得去說服當事人說沒有啦 他真的是騙你的我覺得我光是看那個螢光幕前的故事我都覺得心累這個30分鐘的紀錄片裡面呢他還拍到說長官還為了照顧他們的身心健康還有放了一些例如說夾娃娃機啦然後現場如何讓他們的工作狀態是舒適的可是說實話 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8781.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8805.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
在接到這麼多詐騙電話的過程當中我認為心累身體勞累但我們有沒有機會再增加現場的服務量能這是第一個第二個我知道內政部其實長期有在關心遠景身心健康這個非常重要但我也很想跟部長您討論我認為165的這個第一線接電話這些同仁他們的身心健康所需要的服務可能跟第一線遠景 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8806.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8828.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
的狀態是不一樣的例如說這裡面好幾個工作人員講到的話我非常印象深刻其中有一個人說他騎摩托車回家下班的時候他都覺得他有幻聽一直聽到電話聲那我也可以想見如果我每天在那邊排班要8到10個小時電話一進來我就要立刻按平均一通電話可能20分鐘我要勸那個人甚至我要教那個人怎麼報案甚至樓上還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8829.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8850.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
負責比較高科技處理的人還要下來對現場街道那些狀況也就是說他們在現場街道的狀況是已經看得懂的詐騙還有看不懂的詐騙還有打電話進來的人的身心疲勞這件事情其實讓所有工作人員非常非常辛苦所以我想在針對相關議題進行討論實質政策我們可以做什麼之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8850.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8865.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我可不可以拜託部長跟院長我們如何協助165這些現場的工作同仁可以有更好的身心健康支援謝謝委員的關心我想我們的165的第一線的同仁基本上是警政署的保醫總隊那我們現在已經增加到47人 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8868.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8888.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這些分三班都非常的辛苦在工作院長也多次到現場去慰問而且我們採取的是多國的語言包括我們要協助移工或是其他的外國人也都包含在內所以我們現在要除了人力增強以外還要增加了就是有關技術面的部分譬如說我們把圈存的通報電子化 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8888.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8912.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
從今年年初的時候已經開始了就是說把它改為由系統的線上作業不需要再用紙本的傳真另外一個就是接通率的目前為止已經提升到86.6%再來就是我們要建置一個新的系統這個新的系統就是剛剛院長有跟各位委員報告的就是我們想要導入AI的人工智慧的技術重建原有165的系統功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8913.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8938.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
這個就是為了服務165的近線電話裡面能夠馬上得到警政署的協助另外一個也非常謝謝陳委員的關心有關在第一線處理反詐或者是說接聽電話的同仁他們的身心健康我想我們本來就有關注到這一點我們會來持續加強如果有必要的話我們還是會請專業的心理諮商師來介入希望他們能夠保持在職場上面一個健康的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8939.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8958.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
對 因為我真的看了這個片子我重複看了兩遍我真的很心疼他們因為作案那邊真的壓力山大而且可能打進來電話那個人錢其實已經匯款出去了因為現在有非常多詐騙其實是線上匯款不見得是尤其是剛剛院長有講到我們有第一線的銀行人員在阻詐這件事情確實已經受到成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8959.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8982.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
可是其實更多的是數位科技甚至當我們好人端這邊在運用AI不要忘了壞人也在運用AI所以其實有90%是透過線上這件事情所以真的要拜託部長跟院長我想就身心健康這件事情也好技術層面也好或者是多國語言這些他們現場所增加的服務我們在後端給予他們更多的支持好不好謝謝部長跟謝謝院長那我們接下來看一下謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8984.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9008.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
下一張這個數據會說話其實剛剛兩位委員都提到相關數字我要先提醒大家如果我們看111跟112跟113其實數字是又上升又下來那一定這個數字背後代表一些趨勢那趨勢的原因到底是什麼我認為原因非常的複雜多元大概沒有辦法用單一的原因來看可是我要談的是這個是確實全世界的人民在面對的現實 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9009.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9028.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
如果願意關心國際新聞就知道其實美國這幾年從疫情開始非常多而且針對不同國家不同語言的詐騙也非常非常多那如果我們回到台灣我比較關心的是兒少的部分從詐騙來看兒少怎麼說呢在投影片的左手邊矯正學校的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9030.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9058.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
29.3%都是跟詐騙有關右手邊是少關所所收容的學生也都跟詐騙有關數字最高也就是說不管是少角校或是部長請回不好意思不管是少角校或是少關所其實都是跟詐騙有關的學生收容最多那關於學生犯罪的部分我認為可以分幾個部分一個是事前預防第二個是行為的處遇第三是後續追蹤我們來看下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9060.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9079.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
好 這一張是我們看到少事法我們知道目前針對事前預防的部分我知道現在我們要增加少年前科三年內沒有在因為故意觸犯刑法或法律而受保護處分或刑之宣告者這個門檻我知道我們要調整對不對 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9080.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9099.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
是這個一定是要做三級的預防這是屬於邵教校裡面的一些的非常重要的一個機制那我想這可以預防也可以在邵教校現在可以要做好然後以後就出校的時候能夠跟社會做現在再一個就學就會可以做一個比較好的一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9099.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9114.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
部長你覺得我們做這個修法真的有可以幫助少年詐欺犯罪的預防嗎怎麼說因為我認為詐欺這件事情它的背後因素真的非常非常多容我先往後說第一個我知道其實行政院在今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9116.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9141.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
新政院3月的時候合訂了一筆經費是4年內我們要投入76億關於預防兒童及少年犯罪方案14到17年我覺得這件事情非常非常重要為什麼要從修法開始談起因為少年青少年現在儼然成為各式犯罪集團非常重要的工具人因為孩子有這個豁免的條款所以導致於這些黑道這些詐騙集團的大人 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9142.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9166.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
他們直覺想到可以利用青少年那我知道我們相關的規劃是希望可以從初級預防二級預防到後續孩子們回歸社會回歸家庭回歸社區的時候有一個好的路可以選擇可是我看到相關的困境是當孩子們在面對自己可能變成詐騙集團或是走進去之後發現好像真的有利可圖有甜頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9167.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9196.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
比起他去打工比起他做正常的工作好像容易得多我認為我看見的是孩子們生活的困境他可能是因為家庭的需求家裡面沒有錢 急需用錢或者是個人消費慾望的需求他可能很羨慕同學有新的手機 新的球鞋對 部長不要懷疑新的球鞋可能五六千塊孩子們很想要或者是情感的需求例如說詐騙集團這些大人真的很會接觸小孩的情緒種種的困難其實都不是我們處在光明面的大人 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9197.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9214.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
可以看得見可以接得住的所以我才會問說我們如何在未來一一四到一一七七十六億防止青少年犯罪這一塊我們加入一個這個部分我剛講的如何接住這些孩子原生社區原生家庭在學校的需求跟困境讓他們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9215.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9244.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
提早理解更多假設我真的加入了詐團假設我真的成為其中犯罪的一份子或是我被關進去之後我在掃腳效我在掃關鎖我會發生什麼樣的事情我出來還會面對什麼樣的困境剛剛黃珊珊委員播的那個影片大家只有看見快樂的一面可是壞人都是這樣啊他騙你吃蘋果之前他跟你說蘋果很好吃可是他沒有告訴你你吃了毒蘋果你會發生什麼事情我認為我們要讓孩子及早知道這些事情雖然看起來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9244.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9271.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
有點像恐嚇但我們轉換一個語法轉換一個說法讓孩子知道你犯了錯你犯了罪我們不會因為你是少年就不告訴你可能會有的後果我想拜託法務部在後續114到117年這個四年防治計畫當中如何加入這個部分也就是在三級預防的前兩級初級預防跟二級預防我們提早加入這個觀念給小孩我想聽一下部長您的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9272.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9291.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
謝謝 的確委員對這個問題很深入了解當然提到宣導面已經讓小朋友讓學生 兒童 少年聽清楚這個絕對不能夠去吃毒蘋果這個是不要被詐團所利用當車手 當搜捕手甚至提供一些的個資的我想這部分我們會全力來做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9293.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9315.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
一個做一個宣導那我想這邊我們跟主管機關來做一個合作主管機關一定還有教育部教育部還有衛福部內政部勞動部還有法務部這幾個部會那以法務部來講的話我們重要是在少教校跟少關所那在學校的這一部分那因為在一個成長在少年這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9315.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9338.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我也清楚這個少女私人處理我們法務部是沒辦法去碰這個區塊的我知道但是我們有更多初級預防跟二級預防這個本來就是跨部會需要一起努力的好不好我就提出我們的觀察跟問題因為確實少角校跟少關所這幾年也確實被詐騙的孩子們充滿了這個詐欺的部分所以你們其實也會很辛苦那我們來看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9339.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9365.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
假設他們真的發生了這些行為然後被放進少角校跟少關所目前我們看到你們相關的輔導的內容我看到有弟子規影片生命重塑靈性生命我知道因為孩子們進來的時間或長或短你們可以發生影響力的時間也或長或短有非常多的變數但我要說我認為相關的課程真的必須要與時俱進到底弟子規我知道我們上次去考察的時候你們跟我說弟子規的老師是有證照的老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9366.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9388.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
但是部長我真心要說地址規真的是我們這個世代的孩子他們聽得下去的嘛與其叫他們地址規不如搞不好黃珊珊委員剛剛那個影片更有效他們看完之後你們好好的告訴他們你在前面做的這個壞事看似光鮮亮麗但陰暗面 黑暗的那一面孩子你們必須承受什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9389.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9407.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我認為這個事情搞不好更實際也就是說相關的矯正課程在做行為處遇的階段我認為我們要更加與時俱進更靠近他們不要忘了他們在被放進哨角跟哨官之前他們可是每天拿著手機看短影片的小孩你突然讓他回到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9409.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9435.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我們上一個時代在看的弟子規我覺得有嚴重的落差他們根本在裡面就是把眼睛閉起來把耳朵關起來這個要拜託部長所以我認為教化如果要把這麼多課程安排放進來我們的教化人力就要調整輔導人力就要調整可是現在現行我知道國教署有在協助你們但我認為人力是不夠的其實你們自己也非常清楚所以在這個而且這些小孩說實話如果他們在一般校園裡面他們會被放 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9435.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9453.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
放在所謂二級跟三級的輔導回到學輔法的角度他是屬於二級輔導跟三級輔導的對象而二級輔導跟三級輔導他急需要高度的專業去同理他 支持他 接納他他才有可能跟我們大人站在一起說好 我試試看 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9453.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9473.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我來改邪歸正我來努力看看而這個部分可能也是你們現在缺乏的人力我時間有限我是不是就先把問題提出到這裡拜託部長把相關的意見帶回去不管是少角校 少關所我們在初級 二級 三級每一個階段我們都需要足夠多的專業人力來協助這些已經走上 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9474.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9491.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
不好的路的孩子他們回過頭來他們想要回頭的時候我們大人接得住好不好拜託部長報告委員我曾經要求教育法務部對於經過這些少年處遇的少年犯結束了這個行為處遇之後他進到社會他的再犯率有多高 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9492.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9521.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
研究一下跟原來我們這些矯正或是關乎的這個制度跟內容是不是相關是不是我們必須從這裡改善來讓他們回去社會之後降低他們的再犯率這個是值得我們研究的我今天只是要他們去做好 謝謝院長所以我很謝謝你們收到我的訊息我對於孩子們的關心希望他們還來得及在成年之前回頭試案要拜託我們大人一起努力 好嗎謝謝院長好 謝謝陳培育委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9525.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9554.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
現在在議場二樓旁聽來自屏東縣旅居台北的鄉親團各位好朋友我們掌聲這裡歡迎好 謝謝我們接下來請羅志強委員質詢劉書斌委員請準備主席有請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9555.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9580.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
麻煩再請卓院長備詢副委員好院長好在正式進入主題之前我想先說一個減一加二的小故事我在總統府擔任副秘書長期間大概每個月一到兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9582.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9609.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
都會陪馬英九總統聽取警政署長的治安報告這也是馬總統八年執政幾乎每個月都一定會做的事情每一次治安報告馬總統一定會要警政署長報告一個統計數字就是酒駕肇事致死的統計數字我每次都看著他對著署長講還有辦法再降嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9611.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9638.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
到底這個酒駕照試致死的人數要用什麼方法把它減少呢這個月又增加的原因是什麼就這樣子一直陪著他聽這個治安簡報日復一日重複一模一樣的場景可是有一天馬總統在跟警政署長聽報告的時候他突然嘆了一口氣說他說署長你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9641.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9667.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這個數字每降個一就代表拯救了兩個家庭的幸福我其實聽了這句話的時候非常感動那時候馬總統可能沒有注意到每降一救的不只是那個可能被害的被害者的家庭他其實也是救了肇事者的家庭一個酒駕肇事致死毀掉是兩個家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9668.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9694.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那麼馬總統這麼執著在這件事情上有沒有功效呢我分享給院長事實上根據交通部大安會的統計酒駕肇事致死的人數最高峰是2008年陳水扁總統他那時候高峰是一年948人到馬總統2016年卸任的時候下降到399人減少549人 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9698.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9720.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
降幅超過將近60%代表這一連串的反酒駕的措施拯救了549條生命也就是將近1000個家庭這一加二的體貼就跟韓院長曾經說過莫忘世上苦人多其實是同一個心情 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9722.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9748.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我現在就要進入主題了我想請教院長你對民進黨執政九年打詐成績你打幾分拜託委員不要讓我自己打這樣的分數我剛已經說過了數字不代表任何一個蠻力的程度我知道院長的原則都不會自己打自己分數但是我告訴你這一題如果你去問陳歐破的話他會跟你講一百分 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9749.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9774.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
畢竟陳歐珀住處搜索到一個關鍵筆記本裡面標注曾經收受IMB這個吸金高達83億多的詐騙案主嫌曾耀峰800萬元他可能很滿意我們民進黨執政9年的打詐的成績所以這一題如果是由陳歐珀由詐團來打分數我想應該可以拿到100分 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9775.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9795.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那我再問如果這個問題拿去問2022年台版柬埔寨案當中被詐欺集團集體拘禁關押虐待的61個被害者請問院長你覺得他們會打幾分絕對是非常不好的分數 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9799.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9821.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那我問你好如果是問其中那三位被虐待死亡的38歲的黃姓男子拘禁12天因為被毆打凝月受不了跳樓身亡45歲黃姓婦人被毆打凝月因為肝硬化腹腔積水腫脹發炎出血24天休克死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9822.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9849.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
死亡前還跟他同樣被拘禁的受虐人跟他講說拜託你出去跟我的兒子講媽媽對不起你媽媽沒有辦法陪你到最後了患慢性病的57歲零性男子被拘禁虐待腿部受傷延誤治療腿部潰爛非常痛哀嚎結果被未讀噤聲最後心肌梗塞死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9851.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9880.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
詐團殘暴到令人髮指你認同吧我們都非常痛恨這樣的行為我們也覺得應該有大的利益到能夠來阻止重複發生繼續來打擊這個犯罪那你覺得對這些被活活虐死的黃姓男子 黃姓婦人 林姓男子他們會對政府打詐打幾分我告訴你啦0分 答對了0分啦0分啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9881.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9905.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那我再問你喔 上個月喔我用一句話 就是這些個案我都承認 都是事實但討論的時候 我們還是要給很多夥伴們我從來不會否認 也否定我們今天打炸前線的我們的同仁的努力但我要提醒你是 莫忘世上苦人多甚至莫忘世上冤魂多 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9907.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9921.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
上個月台中市風源被發現一家五口沉屍屋內屋主妻子大女兒二女兒小兒子全部倒臥房內死亡多日你知道他是怎麼死亡的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9924.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9948.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這新聞很大喔我想部長知道吧這件事那個台中地刑偵辦中那個主嫌也受壓偵辦善盡家財 搗欠五百萬因為遇到投資詐騙 舉家被活活逼死那又請問他們要打幾分呢積蓄權沒了 因為陷投資詐騙損失兩百五十萬 汐止老夫婦輕生 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9951.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9978.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
台北市內湖區一對母女被騙一千兩百萬在家輕生情侶慘遭被騙走七百多萬雙雙輕生基隆曲姓女子被騙走畢生積蓄五百五十一萬輕生死亡院長還需要我繼續說下去嗎我知道案件確實很多那這個表格我只強調一點因為2024年我們統計數字改變所以會增加很多案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9979.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10001.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我告訴你這個是事實因為你就知道我通常會突襲你這個事實我只要提醒說因為統計的方式改變我現在還在講案件數字我再告訴你我也聽到前面你的答詢的回答你有什麼話要對這些受害者家屬說受害者說他們在天之靈說 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10004.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10025.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
請問他們要打幾分我們當然非常不捨但我們覺得政府應該更有所作為全球犯罪行為在台灣我們不能置外於全球這個犯罪行為之外院長 我告訴你零分 零分 零分好了 剛剛院長跟我講不能只看個案所以我數字拿給你看這數字我不一一念 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10026.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10048.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
如果按照這個內政部警政署的打詐儀表版我只能用觸目驚心來形容當然我也聽到剛剛部長的解釋統計方法不同統計方法不同但是數字總是正確 總是真的吧不是假消息吧數字是正確那我告訴你我也聽到剛剛部長跟院長你們回答的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10050.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10078.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
很抱歉 我也不客氣的說讓人民來看看他相信是法務部的數字還是警政署打詐以表擺的數字哪個數字更接近我剛剛前面講的這一群因為政府打詐沒有做到好結果被詐騙集團詐騙到走投無路 舉家輕生你問問他們他們相信這個數字還是相信法務部你的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10080.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10107.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
人民的感受是什麼而且重點 這打造儀標板你們有講說下半年統計對不對 去年 是嗎所以回溯以前的東西 是不是不是回溯 它是用計算方式本來是以犯罪者 炸船來算它算一個案件現在是以受害者來算可能有十個 可能有三十個案件無論如何 我告訴院長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10109.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10137.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
當然 賴總統上任才一年多了其實說真的 這打仗問題我們已經關心很久了民進黨是執政九年了 九年了要嘛今天賴清德總統沒做好要嘛蔡英文總統沒做好但不管哪個總統沒做好都是民進黨政府沒做好這一點我希望能夠記在心上那我要問一下我們政府真的百分之百用心在打擊詐騙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10140.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10161.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我們很積極在做這個事情我告訴你 也許你很積極但有一個人跟委員報告你要不要讓我講事實上我們是全方位的在做一個處理在一個 全面的在打砸我跟你在時髮法治委會譬如說台北地檢署最近不是有一件那個斬金專案我的質詢時間有效不是刻意要打斷我沒有否定 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10162.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10189.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我沒有否定今天第一線人員的努力啊我剛剛有否定嗎我沒有否定啊讓我問問題好不好可以嗎 讓我問問題我沒有否定 你不用急著defend啊真的不用急 我也沒有否定辦案人員的辛勞我們都知道 我也肯定啊我要問的只有一個人不是你 也不是卓院長我要問的是賴清德總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10192.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10210.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
當這些枉死的人期待政府交出詐騙成績單過去一年多賴總統忙什麼你告訴我忙三件事情大罷免大罷免大罷免我跟你講院長聽我講完你再評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10213.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10231.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
如果他用大罷免十分之一的心思好好打仗也許往死的幽魂可以少一些我要謝謝台灣人民用25比0敲醒執政者敲醒賴總統謝謝他們 院長你跟總統都要謝謝台灣人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10235.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10249.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
為什麼是25比0 你知道嗎我走在路上 每天站在路上早上五點多出門 晚上十一二點回家民眾心心念念 盼望的是政府好好打仗不要搞大鬥爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10252.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10275.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
25比0就是提醒我們的政府把所有的心思百分之百的心思放來好好打仗放來做關稅的應變放來去治理國政啦委員會只要一句話去年520之前總統只告訴我強化治安發展經濟是兩項最重要的工作他沒有做其他的交代說到心沒到 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10277.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10298.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
心不在焉我不敢講說百分之百不在焉但他的心起碼被框了百分之九十在大罷免上並沒有這樣子的你說沒有讓民眾判斷沒有關係因為我這個是不可能跟你達成共識我知道我為什麼在質詢要講馬總統防治酒駕的故事 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10300.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10329.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
當酒駕肇事歷史新高的包袱交到馬總統手上的時候他是用什麼心思在降酒駕肇事啊八年任內降幅60%每個月每個月每個月的丁我拜託 我真的拜託院長也許總統做不到 拜託你做到這本來是一件不可能完成的任務 你知道嗎但是一個有心的總統就可以做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10331.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10341.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那我告訴你 我也不客氣的說今天 民進黨九年打詐不利還創造另外一個慘不忍睹的成績單你知道是什麼嗎秀出來沒啊 有啊 告訴你衛福部六月公布2024年國人十大死因 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10356.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10385.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
蓄意自我傷害也就是自殺在14年後重回十大死因排名第十專家說跟詐騙有關因為很多人人生無望選擇輕生那我告訴你這個自殺防治我要再講一個把總統莫忘世上苦人多親自讀導的故事台灣自殺人數在民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10387.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10415.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
在2006年陳水扁執政的時候是達到高峰的4406人歷史新高也一直在國人十大死因當中馬總統上任後積極推動自殺防治工作在他的任內有效降低死亡人數2010年自殺終於退出國人十大死因我在當總統府副秘書長那一年比2006年少了700人 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10417.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10446.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我要講的事情其實一個很簡單的事情總統的用心院長的用心部長的用心你們多一份用心就少一個家庭破碎你們多一個用心就少一個詐騙去傷害無辜的老百姓 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10448.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10472.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
至少一件事我相信院長你一定可以跟我達成共識啦現在詐騙真的是國恥沒錯吧是不是啊這也是全球性的犯罪沒錯啊我們台灣真的是國際也很多在講台灣的詐欺啊不只台灣全球性都有這樣的共識院長拜託放在心上謝謝你我們要努力我們會努力謝謝委員好謝謝羅志強委員的質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10486.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10512.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們接下來請劉書斌委員質詢之後我們會休息十分鐘休息完畢以後請王逸川委員請準備現在請劉書斌委員請質詢主席好 請左院長麻煩再請左院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10522.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10545.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
劉委員好 院長好本席今天就行政院的打詐政策跟民進黨政府的誠信問題還造成的財損的部分來請教於您再我們看一下民進黨在109年的時候就宣告了打詐元年您去年就任就已經通過了打詐的新的四法 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10545.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10563.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那也後來有2.0的版本也出現了但是我們可以看到到上個月的財損還是到85.4億那麼下一頁我們可以看到的是這個每天都還超過了2億的這樣的一個財損那這個是最重要的在本黨的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10566.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10588.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
診斷當中發現到最重要的成效有限是因為民眾對政府的誠信充滿了不信任施政就有過度的包裝跟話術的問題我們現在就繼續往下看行政院你自己本身的打炸架構當中有了市炸 堵炸 防炸 阻炸跟懲炸的部分當然最重要的是市炸請問您 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10590.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10595.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
院長這四五個步驟裡面哪一個是最重要的是不是市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10596.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10624.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
每一個環節都重要有源頭到下游全部都重要有市詐就會降低案件的發生好 我覺得是從第一步來講沒錯 第一步你說的市詐非常重要所以我們就必須要了解市詐的重點是什麼包括你的打詐成果包括你常常說要強調源頭管理那我們現在看到市詐竟然是預防於先我看到基本內容當中詐騙本身有幾個部分第一個部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10625.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10647.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
誇大的謊言製造第二個部分是設計騙局第三個是導致財損這是非常重要的情況我們就繼續來看就用這樣的架構我們就來看看民進黨本身你卓院長的這個政策幫他們看到好多項包括的是在看到的是在財化法當中造成的非常多的一個民怨還包括在 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10648.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10666.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
重視到光電但是卻造成台南的這個光電爐炸案這郭蔡清的這個非法的掩埋等等還有包括21的這個非法獲利那我們再往下一頁看到的是特別是在現在進入到非核家園強調的達成了但是20%的要再生能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10667.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10690.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那又看到的是但是實際上在現在19 16%的再生能源部分還造成了很多的影響企業的配電我們再往下看看到的是在這次的颱風當中有出現到了這麼多的光電 海溫 新溫光電廠當中12天之內都還沒有再清洗我們繼續再往下看的時候他都已經清理完畢在集中在一個站置場上 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10691.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10713.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
對但是還是沒有處理完備好這部分我們繼續往下看這一部分民進黨的話術這邊就呈現到在2024 2025我們再看看這次的颱風當中呢也強調說風光發電瞬間的這個風速呢是非常高到15.2%等等的但事實上這些的剛才說那兩個在台南跟嘉義的光電呢通通都是屬於 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10714.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10722.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
在心理的部分包括之前用實驗性的都要花到3到5億這部分然後還要造成的環境的汙染 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10723.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10751.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
大家可以看到的是剛才所說的部分可以看到是一個誇大的說很好很好光電很好這真的有它的好處但是被誇大了看到這部分造成了災損的部分我們看往下的這部分好那繼續再想到在再生能源的部分行政院長主任院長你在當初有呈到說在2024的時候2024的時候這個新聞當中你說的再生能源的這個成本一定會降下來那 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10752.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10770.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這一部分我們可以看到是根本就經不起在風災上面的檢驗根本還沒有準備好那測試當中呢還沒有準備好發電都已經有虧損的這個情況出現了報告委員風災檢驗不堪一級這句話實驗性質的設備吧可能要調整一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10775.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10793.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
不需要我現在就說事實上我們看到就是我剛剛特別是指剛剛那兩個那兩個的養魚重電的場合所以沒有問題好那我們繼續往下看以現在台電我們看到的發電成本的數據來看在最近的台電的網站當中所呈現的這個數據當中呢平均的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10794.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10821.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
發電購電成本是3.19但是再生能源還是到5.6我覺得是特別是針對到外部的購電的成本這些部分好那我們知道的是請問卓院長一個問題再生能源的成本是需要考量的沒有錯可是重要我們知道核電的成本這部分你看到的是請問您知道核電是唯一的後端處理基金都已經計入電價的能源嗎CPT請出現核核端的基金有累積相當 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10823.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10840.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
有放進去嘛 對不對所以他現在的價格已經是像剛才那張圖上呈現出來的是不是才一點多塊錢而且他已經加入到了這個計價當中把唯一後端的處理基金放進去除了處理之外他呈現的安全上的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10840.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10865.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
是我們要優先考量所以我們是說有核安有核廢的處理還有全民的高度共識是我們對現在傳統能源的看法以及我們對新式能源願意來接觸的一個態度沒有錯你這樣講再把你的政策宣示一下是好事情但是我們現在繼續看到但是在目前的部分我們看到的是剛才就出現到在撥補台電1000億的招商的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10866.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10895.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
院長你自己說的調整電價呢恐釀成呢就是刪了1000億之後呢就會調整電價 會釀成物價的上漲但是這民眾看起來就是怎麼樣就是您在恐嚇民眾這一部分因為在野黨的部分沒有刪就是把它刪除掉了再說你們刪除了不去做撥補了之後那會有漲漲電價還會有造成物價上漲其實就像剛才我說的整個詐騙的過程當中就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10896.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10923.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
就是一個誇大的一個說法之後然後事實上面不是造成這樣最後造成的災損當然我們很清楚的知道我們今天我用這個方式教訓大家講的是卓榮泰政府所做的事為是一個當然是一個政府但是他最重要的是他所做的行為其實跟詐騙集團的思想法是很相近的 我覺得剛剛那句話的邏輯應該是很簡單一般人都會懂因為他就是一個邏輯 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10925.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10940.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我們敢讓台電的財務狀況比較健全我在電價審議委員會裡面的討論他就會認為台電可以抑制那如果不是的話電價委員會有他的考量我現在讓你看看下一頁的地方我們看到到2019年2019年 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10943.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10968.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
109年2020年的時候蔡總統在說了2050、2025年的時候再生能源可以創造1兆的投資額1.2兆的產值跟2萬個工作機會他把台灣打造成亞洲的綠能發展中心那這個地方是他2020年說的那我們繼續往下看我們現在風電的增加量 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10970.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10994.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
經濟不統治 我們風電的增加量那個時候到現在是世界第一位但我們不是以此自滿我們要做更多安全的能源分布就算是這樣子也只要部分可是其他的工作機會產值這些部分通通也只講再生能力 現在只講到風電再生能力有非常多種所以我們去想想就是你是誇大不實的這部分就跟詐騙其他所做的很相近第二部分我們在看到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10995.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11021.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
上個月在本席在佛科會的這個質詢當中呈現到說要他呈現做科學園區的用水用電包括是再生能源是不是能夠供應到台灣的科學園區的需求結果拿到三頁的這樣的內容事實上就看出來的是對於再生能源的供應他沒有說得清楚更重要的是在下一個部分看到的是在科學園區的部分我們看到這張圖是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11022.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11035.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
可以看到在生能源發展這邊呈現出來的是支持資料在2025年的時候是330億度左右這部分我們可以看到是台積電它本身在台灣就要用到250億度電 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11038.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11066.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
350億度電但是如果在科學園區的話呢他事實上要更多了而且目前只能到達25%的部分如果到2030年的話再生能源是400億度台積電就450度本身就不能供給到台積電的需求這地方就呈現了再生能源不足董院長你知道再生能源不足對廠商會發生什麼樣尤其是我們是外銷導向的所以我們要增加開發更多的再生能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11067.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11080.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
是沒錯但是我跟你講現在謝謝院長但是我們繼續往下看同樣的可能又是在騙局的一個製造了我們看看這張圖當中呈現出來的我看為了事實上面呈現出來是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11082.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11101.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
現在的電網部分你再生能源不生產出來但是你要把輸電輸到廠商那邊去啊可是在柏科威的網站當中呈現出來的是所有的網路的潰線的部分呢再生能源網站呢再生能源的電網最多到203年2032年之後才能達成7年之後所以現在再生能源是 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11103.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11106.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
所以我們要求拜託給台電多一點支持就是讓他增加電網的韌性時間暫停 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11126.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11140.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
委員 容許我提醒一下我們今天根據職權新司法第17條邀請行政院率委員來報告題目是打詐策略那個 院長我們有考慮過這個問題我說明一下因為本身 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11141.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11169.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
行政院就是一個非常重要的一個能夠讓人家信任而且能夠說你在政策部分所以這部分如果本身卓院長行政院的部分他本身就是一個製造謊言製造誇大言詞甚至還造成人民財損他本身不是最大的一個最大中心嗎我想就尊重容我提醒你如果說你針對能源問題我們立法院大家形成共識再請卓院長來報告能源問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11170.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11178.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我覺得這樣子比較民俘相識好我可以很快嗎能源我覺得這個民俘不是我們很多過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11179.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11204.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
有可能雞飛塵世我特別提醒你我希望你還是能夠回到我們請卓院長來的今天主題打炸七列策略好不好謝謝請繼續謝謝韓院長才是好那是我尊重那個院長的這樣的但是我這邊部分有一個很快的就會帶過去好不好那這地方我們看到是剛才再生能源的部分有包括的是有再生能源但是我們看到的是再生能源因為往 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11205.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11224.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
往潰線的部分的一個差異性所以他沒辦法供給那最重要是剛才的部分大家知道再生能源當中中午的9點到下午的2點當中就是非常多的一個潰線的非常多的再生能源沉澱出來但是這部分台電就是要付費給到發電業者去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11227.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11246.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那其他部分在晚上的跟凌晨的時候呢就是會補上的這邊有火力去就是造成的台電虧損最重要的原因那我再必須從企業部分去講的是在於企業部分看到他還是要要複合他國外去做出口的時候他必須要有再生能源憑證那我們繼續往下看可是再生能源憑證他必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11247.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11258.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
能夠這個電力呢是能夠真正有用的目前台灣的再生能源的憑證當中因為匯線真的沒辦法到達所以他只能在台灣用但是最像台積電其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11260.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11283.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
廠商他輸出國外的有外銷的部分他就沒辦法達到國際間的再生能源憑證那就會出現到非常大的問題就是說台灣現在的再生能源的環境並沒有去撐他的對他的在國際間的出口是有幫助的他沒辦法達到廠商的需求這部分更重要的還有一個部分再生能源剛才已經說了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11284.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11312.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
屬於一般的我們它的再生能源可是現在就最重要的在於說再生能源如果到二再生能源它的量的話其實越受制於地形當地環境的差異性更重要的現在是要有所謂的非碳的全時的24小時7天能夠用的這樣子的一個能源在它才能夠應用國際間的這個需求但是這部分也是由聯合國跟國際能源總署跟產業客戶所達成的這樣一個部分我們繼續再往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11313.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11332.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
在這個情況下之前的國科會也提到了在廠商的外移這邊我們看到台積電的外移是非常重要的台積電的外移我們發現雖然涉及到關稅的問題可是更重要的是台積電沒說的事實大家往下看到這個部分在全球的分佈當中台積電要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11334.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11355.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
德國了德國他德國完整的跟他講可以的我們可以百分之百的供應到再生能源但日本的部分呢在熊本那但是他是用九州的這個整個電網裡面供應他也是再生能源也是沒有問題的然後在亞利桑那當中呢這個整個州這部分核能 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11357.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11376.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
因為供給他在基載電力之後他的再生能源也是可以的那最重要的是要跟大家講的是當芬蘭呢這個是大家知道北歐是非常重要的一個重視環保的國家他現在更是全世界第二大的這個核電生產國那降低75%的一個建價成本這部分也是供參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11377.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11396.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
當然這部分我們的銀長佐的現在代表已經到芬蘭去了這部分可是他在那邊如果有機會跟全民的這個共樂的時候可以講到說這部分他在一個核電這麼高的地方事實上是要去了解到的那最重要講到這邊的部分是要跟大家跟院長你要做一個資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11398.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11425.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
因為行政院民進黨的政府當中就是為了政策選票在誇大不實的然後找出錯誤的一個政策出現導致了國家的財損還會繼續台電的擴大企業就不斷出走包括剛才說的台積電是一個非常典型的例子因為剛才所說的台灣並沒有辦法提供足夠的再生能源如果又沒有所謂的非碳的電力而且24小時7天的去站狀是不行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11426.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11446.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以在剛才的這部分詐騙的一個行為當中就是誇大不實事實上是相反然後還包括是後面這部分那當然就說人民就會覺得您就是民進黨政府可能就是一個非常大的詐騙期也就是因為這樣的情況之下他沒有辦法去得到信念包括剛才的 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11448.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11473.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
羅志強我也說了當你的心思沒有完全在你的政策的上面大大增這個效果那我們繼續看到的是目前台灣最大的民怨是什麼是對等關稅 能源問題跟詐騙跟詐騙的問題那因為缺乏政府人民缺乏對政府的信任只想優點的這個謊言而且忽視財產這個事實那老實講就是一個詐騙這種情形那這個地方怎麼去改變呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11474.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11503.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
打仗最重要在這裡就是希望是說包括的是希望在這邊我們繼續往下看的是希望能夠誠實的來去處理對不起委員你剛剛的這一席講話不僅違反院長的才勢也完全沒有邏輯我實在沒有辦法理解好 謝謝謝謝謝謝委員辛苦了 劉書斌委員 謝謝好 謝謝你的質詢也謝謝卓院長相關首長的備詢 謝謝好 辛苦你 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11510.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11517.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
抱怨会我们现在休息十分钟十分钟之后我们请王逸川委员准备咨询现在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
12132.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
12149.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
現在我們繼續開會接下來請王逸川委員質詢 侯孟楷委員請準備謝謝院長 我們請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
12159.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
12188.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
黃委員好好 卓院長好剛剛這個聽了很多委員的質詢相關的訊息統計資料當然跟包括法務部部長大家對這些統計資料的調查的方式時間點你們有一些要做說明但是我是覺得這樣這些統計的數字包括這些曲線的上上下下在人民的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
12189.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
12217.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我覺得有感報告裡面有講過一萬件、兩萬件、幾百件這個數字對任何一個個人他用詐騙的那個人看到這個數字有感第二個呢這個打詐的這個儀表板這個在很多公共政策在跟人民宣傳的時候都有這個儀表板 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
12219.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
12246.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這儀表板 我也常常接到朋友說你這蟲蟲 詐騙這麼多 用這麼久還有一個辦公室 也是在詐騙我們說 沒有啊 這詐騙有在改進 有在進步你看那個數字怎麼樣 可是這有時候人民聽不下去我覺得這個困境要想辦法突破這個困境要想辦法突破 譬如說剛才有人說到酒駕 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
12248.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
12277.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
你問酒駕現在量有減可是也有酒駕也有酒駕致死啦所以我跟這個院長交流一個概念跟院長報告的時候你說我們現在這個詐騙有五大類型這樣聽起來很危險的是說我們知道有這五大類型你們按照AI去分析包括卡丁他講的這個內容第六個正在行程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
12278.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
12303.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我們花很多時間在處理這五個可是對詐騙集團的人來說你這五個我都知道你中華民國政府知道這五個我當然不會再用這五個我會形成第六個 形成第七個所以這一塊我是請卓院長跟打詐辦公室或相關的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
12304.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
12312.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
這一部分可能要再精進就是說正在形成中的詐騙型態要提早啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
12313.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
12342.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
能夠因應委員所說的是我剛剛說的假投資假交友假網購假買家騙賣家還有假檢警這五大這五大只是他受理案件60%都是這五大財損90%都是這五大其他當然還有很多各種型態都有那在達渣儀表板上面就會有很辛苦把他內容都把他太陽化出來我們不會放掉其他小的我以為說20年前 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
12343.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
12361.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
可能沒有什麼詐騙的事情以前可能有什麼金光檔這種的 我們了解金光檔現在這十年 假設我這個詐騙這件事這個技術 方法一直變數位平台的發展它一直變 它一直變的時候要醞釀一兩年 吃一兩天就變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
12363.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
12382.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
啊 原來這種的也是詐騙就被我們的政府啊收錄到詐騙的形態然後我們就開始去研究怎麼樣防止然後怎麼告訴大家說這種的叫做詐騙我的意思是說 想這個東西我們要做在前面好 那我 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
12383.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
12411.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
用方法論來想這件事情如果要想在前面是不是世界各國啊世界各國也有很多詐騙的嘛那世界各國有沒有正在形成中的這種詐騙型態台灣現在沒有可是我們總是有專業的人員啊全世界你們有在交流 交流之後想說這次有可能是台灣的發生提早把這件事說出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
12412.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
12422.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
你提早把這個事情提早防範在前面不然我覺得我們的政府現在都在做已經發生的事情然後我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
12423.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
12450.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
在處理啦我們還有一個就是預警中斷他的詐騙所以我們剛剛我報告中有提到一個尋找這個潛在的被害人而且我們已經通報了兩萬五千件就是把你可能受騙的人還不是很大眾化的一個行為但是我們認為你這個身份特殊或是你的環境特殊等等還有你可能現在在某一種平台上面你有一些接觸把他找出來提醒他不要涉入到這個詐騙那專長我請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
12452.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
12481.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
潛在被害人你可以跟大家講有哪些類型因為這個潛在被害人通報有兩萬五千件還要從裡面再去分析我現在就是要提醒卓院長文化民國政府如果給社會說潛在被害人是這幾類詐騙集團就聽到了詐騙集團就聽到了嘛因為你說詐騙集團就聽到了你網路上說人就看到說這些人被注意到了喔我就轉個方向啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
12483.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
12508.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
至少我們保護了兩萬五千人的安全所以我是說為什麼會為什麼就是說我們在這件事情上民眾也會繼續用詐騙當然很多官第一官有跟他們一攤有時候是一個陷阱什麼一大堆有的沒的這一塊我覺得要用比較好的跟世界交流一下看人們新型態的詐騙不要再讓他進來台灣這個大家互相勉勵好第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
12515.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
12538.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
最近有人在分析這個台灣在這個跟詐騙有關的三件事情一個叫人力輸出人力輸出就是說他去外國去做詐騙不管他去了騙台灣人 騙中國人 騙什麼人人力輸出第二種叫做金錢轉運第三種叫做幫派轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
12542.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
12566.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
因為他還要偷錢 要靠幫派嘛好 中間的金錢的轉運啊 就是洗錢啊這件事情我們到底要怎麼處理 我要跟院長講一個實際的案例啊有位朋友啊 朋友就他送他家人去洗錢 現在被抓起來了他就整個人問他們的家人說 你們怎麼做這些什麼詐騙的 這樣對不對騙了很多人 害了很多人 這樣對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
12572.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
12591.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
家人回答說 沒有啦 他是在洗錢 他不是在詐騙然後整場的人 他說那不一樣 洗錢跟詐騙不一樣所以你家人沒有在做詐騙 沒有 我家人是在做洗錢聽起來洗錢比較高級詐騙聽起來比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
12597.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
12607.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我為什麼提這件事情就是說他詐騙來的錢總是要把他洗乾淨洗錢的這件事情是台灣到底我們政府是怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
12610.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
12636.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
你總是要在這裡擠假設有一個人他去用詐騙10萬塊飛過去或是進某一個戶頭那個戶頭也是中華民國的戶頭嘛這擠了再去用洗出來不管叫車手去捏出來還是網路轉轉的轉出去防不勝防他擠又洗洗洗洗洗洗洗洗洗了 清了清了以後可能這擠回來以後我就買豪宅買豪車什麼一大堆嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
12637.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
12663.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
洗錢這件事情 昨天跟大家講一下我們現在在處理洗錢是怎麼用洗錢怎麼防治然後我們現在到底做了什麼樣的努力因為洗錢會是詐騙過程中蠻重要的一環洗錢這條路可以動的可能詐騙的錢在這一關也許可以擋住蠻多的所以打詐釋法當中就有一個就是洗錢防治法 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
12663.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
12686.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
目前的措施 請部長來說跟委員報告 最主要那個洗錢委員剛才提到那個案例說我們怕你洗錢的那就是提供人頭帳戶都用洗錢防治法來起訴的因為它那個洗錢防治法是21條跟22條一個是收集這些人人頭帳戶 人頭的帳號另外22條就是賣就是提供的這種人頭帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
12691.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
12707.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
所以如果說這一種提供人頭帳戶帳號的這一種的行為的話就是適用洗錢房治法22條來處罰你說的這些都很小條的啦我給你提供一個郵局的樸案郵局的樸案我交出去如果說我交出去你讓我殺青錢就由你去寫嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
12713.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
12734.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
這個應該很快 他就發言說這個虎頭納奇怪五年沒進出香港 現在十萬又出去五萬這個我覺得現有的金融體系這個事情我判斷應該有守住啦而且現在因為很多人沒有去整台了出去下去 去業績的洗來洗去 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
12735.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
12758.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
所以我們有第一線很努力我們的金融機構的人員我們常常看電視說什麼阿伯去到那裡 阿姨去到那裡跟他們說你不一定是在詐騙的那個我們都有看到但是其實應該是蠻多人已經不得不接觸的人他就在網路手機按一按電腦按一按錢就出去後來他才驚覺他跟我們朋友說的時候才驚覺說那就是詐騙啊我覺得這個事情是人民現在人民不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
12764.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
12791.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
這政府總是要想一個辦法不然那個董事人啦可能董事給他騙或是為了貪啦什麼賭注十萬一百年一萬回來啦何況到時候沒有啦我抱怨抱怨啦 說現在還賺二十萬喔限期三天啊 如果沒有齁這機會就沒了這種我們都聽很多但是這種金額數字不大可是現在很多人是他是透過網路的錢就出去了他也還救不回來這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12793.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12811.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
報告委員這個是可疑帳戶請主委說明我知道他在一定的時間內重複的使用固定的金額或是在不同的地區短時間內不同地區一直的使用我們都有列入這個可疑帳戶詳細再請主委說明報告委員就是有關帳戶的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12813.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12840.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
如果現在確實有被害人就是現在給我警示帳戶就會全面凍結那再來就是如果可疑帳戶的話他們透過通報的話他會就採取必要性因為他還沒有犯罪行為但他會去做一些管制那如果他覺得可疑他會通報警察他可以把這個事情把這個帳戶做為一個警示主委你剛剛講前面有一個叫被害人對 要有被害人去報案問題就自己家嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12841.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12861.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
他就被害了,他就一直在那邊擁擠人民的問題一件事啦,就是說奇怪咧,我們家的四大人他平常是叫郵局來供來,不然供來五萬、十萬的,每天清涼嘛,三清、兩清涼他現在要給他當五萬、十萬,你們郵局也給他當去你們郵局也給他當去,這歐里桑、歐巴桑,娘子也都去郵局了,怎麼還給他當去 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12871.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12893.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
跟委員報告一下報案報案我幫你處理有關這部分就陳總剛才委員講我們正在做一些現在不方便在這邊說那我可以再跟委員做私底下的報告這個確實有有些銀行已經跟法務部在合作做這些事情但是我是說這個細節的部分我們已經在進行中很好我今天就是要聽這句 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12895.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12905.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
因為我感覺聽卓院長的報告 裡面有些人想繼續謎語這對詐騙集團來說這叫保點你對美國政府說 我就知道了詐騙集團 他可以做詐騙集團 他的頭腦叫我們沒什麼工 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12913.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12936.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
如果我們主委告訴我們有些事情是已經在做那已經在做沒說出來防範在前面當詐騙集團決定要往那條路走的時候發現被我們堵住了其實包括委員我們是全方位做很多事情但我們不會對外說明這個很好最後我還是建議卓院長跟我們的團隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12938.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12965.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這些統計的金額、數量、統計的圖表不要再糾結在這些事情這是一段時間我們對於工作人員的一個檢查的報告我剛剛有說過這個數字不代表任何的成果就是說這些數字上上下下可能有一個突發事件就忽然間就跳起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12966.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12970.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
有些我們很努力就降下去可是不代表說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12971.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12996.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
但是我們必須對這些內部做一些考核要用這個來做考核但對外絕不承認它是一個什麼樣的程度對 就是說 院長不要糾結說價值 因為價值委員會問嘛問說你怕幾分啊 什麼到底有在做嗎 有進步嗎 有改善嗎這些數字啊 內部參考啊就也不用特別去說 哎喲 我們這詐騙金額已經成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
13001.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
13017.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
已經多少金額 減少多少人被害這些事情對被詐騙的人跟被詐騙的家庭來說這些數字對他沒有意義對他有意義的是兩件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
13022.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
13047.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
但是他沒有希望叫他同樣的人再去做PAN所以他會問政府說所以我的案子就在這裡醫療敢不可以再去做PAN政府到底做什麼事情剛才我們彭主委說的這些事情現在正在做這個就是努力去做把這個事情做好真的不要再計較這個圖表上的那些數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
13048.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
13061.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
跟KPI 以免啊搞到最後大家都在做這些表面功夫啦這件事情 把這個院長提醒一下好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝王一川委員執行謝謝卓院長 三關部會首長的備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
13073.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
13099.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
好 接下來我們請侯孟凱委員質詢鍾嘉斌委員請準備主席謝謝麻煩請莊特院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
13110.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
13125.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
院長好院長上任一年多以來國人一直希望是政府是做實事做真事做對的事打擊詐騙是沒有任何一個人可以接受的我剛聽到好幾位委員跟您這邊質詢以及救教之後發覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
13127.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
13156.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
你也開始改口願意稱說我們的這些數字其實是沒有太大的一個意義我在報告裡面就講過了因為每一個數字即便你講是說從去年到今年有減少但是對於被害者來講每一個案件就是百分之百的詐騙每一個案件就是沒有辦法拿回來而更重要是態度問題本席第一線長期跟我們所有的警務同仁以及相關人員在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
13156.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
13182.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
本席非常肯定我們地縣的員警同仁大家對於打擊詐騙的一個辛苦辛勞謝謝但是有沒有讓全國國人看到說現在的政府帶頭從上到下在拼打詐院長你自己怎麼看我們為什麼你有讓國人感受到說我們全國所有的部會首長大家都真真正正放心思在拼打擊詐騙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
13184.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
13212.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
外表太陽上來看我們對這些打詐的相關人員我們予以鼓勵 重視 感謝內部而言我們從政策上來強化法制面而言我們希望能夠有所不足的地方我們再透過更強大的修法院院長你沒有回答本席的問題所以我們從政策 組織 法律各法制各方面都在進行院長你還是沒有回答本席的問題是過去這幾個月國人普遍印象裡面認為說政府在幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
13214.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
13239.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
行政院還是在做行政院在做行政院的事但是國人普遍印象裡面從不管是政論節目新聞媒體以及相關各部會下鄉去做宣講宣講是講國人認為說政府在做什麼宣講是跟預算相關的話題在行政院的範圍裡面我們跟國人來做說明說實在話 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
13240.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
13258.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
本席在經歷過7月26號再一次的選舉我想我應該是很有資格在這邊講這個話從上到下其實全國國人可能都認為今年三分之二時間政府從上到下帶頭都在搞罷免沒有真真正正的在做其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
13258.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
13285.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
真的國人關心的我常說絕大部分的部委首長人民最希望看到的是拚經濟 拚民生 拚打詐但絕對不是拚政治絕大部分的部委首長都在努力自己的工作所以新聞畫面 你看一下七個人在七月因為詐騙而喪命權力大罷免的政府何時才能權力打詐當媒體用這樣的一個標語的時候其實我們是心痛的 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
13286.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
13295.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我身為在野黨的委員我一樣非常心痛因為代表連媒體都認為是說現在這個政府完全沒有在針對民眾想要了解的問題來解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
13296.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
13318.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我們每個月都有打砸的時機你看你又要回來講數字了剛剛王玉川委員才跟你哭口婆心講說不要再講數字你現在又要拿數字來救援是委員說我們都沒有在做我說我有在做做得不夠多不夠好非常好來 院長如果說你真的要講數字我們來講數字什麼樣的數字在你心目中你有沒有一個概念現在一天有多少國人被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
13321.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
13340.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
去年到現在我們每天減少的案件大概有350件今天 昨天打在儀表板上面昨天統計有多少的詐騙案件今天昨天我是沒有看我們每天下降的數字從這個禮拜一到禮拜四今天禮拜五還沒有統計出來這個禮拜一到禮拜四有多少的金額被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
13341.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
13363.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我只能跟你說這一年以來我們每天統計下降的數字每天有350件如果說你真的說念茲在這的話其實我覺得說這些數字應該都會在你心目中每天想著怎麼樣來降低一點一滴而不是到目前為止還是只能拿這本報告來救援禮拜一到禮拜四本期剛看了一下總共有11億2000萬被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
13367.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
13396.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
四天裡面就有十一億兩千萬被詐騙的金額算不算高因為我們一年現在每個現在降到七月份是有八十一億來院長這個比例上就你的報告我們來討論其實本期今天很希望是很持平的因為我們都是要一起面對詐騙打擊詐騙人人有責來我們來看一下數字本期也跟你就數字討論數字因為這很客觀跟科學來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
13397.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
13422.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
這是您的報告對不對詐騙案件你上面畫了一個紅線是逐年下降的概念逐月下降的概念對不對院長有沒有發現有一個盲點從今年的3月到現在的7月其實它沒有下降它其實是完全有一個持平的概念來我們上一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
13424.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
13450.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
上一張你看如果說從去年因為你一直強調說去年8月才開始有改變這個登記的方式所以說8月以前你們先不記好本席也同意來我們先看一下就說那8月到今年的7月快一年的時間每個月的數字可你真的看過去這5個月從3月到7月他是一個成水平等於是說15000件每個月有超過差不多15000件他沒有繼續往下 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
13454.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
13467.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我們就講是說這類似選舉有所謂基本盤難道我們詐騙也有詐騙基本盤嗎國人一個月有一萬五千多件可能會被詐騙那過去這五個月發生了什麼問題委員我兩句話第一個對這個數字政府從來沒有滿意過 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
13471.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
13500.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我也不滿意你也不滿意沒有錯但我要找的是問題啊他每個月都有每個月的因素比如你看院長我可不可以請教一下說這個問題在哪裡這五個月都有每個月有一萬五千件每個月我們都有分析過二月份特別低因為是過年期間我現在在問三月到七月七月份會比較高因為進入到暑假期間我現在在問三月到七月特別對青少年的事情沒有針對本學會有啊七月會比較高因為是暑假期間院長七月有比較高嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
13502.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
13524.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
七月沒有下降 七月有比六月高嗎七月沒有下降 因為它是暑假期間是嘛 所以院長本席現在在跟你討論的是說我們現在國內有一個所謂詐騙基本盤就是一個月有一萬五千件已經持續了五個月有沒有注意到這個數字不是 我們逐月在分析如果把它下降是 那我們剛剛有說過所以本席才會問是說在這五個月裡面沒有下降的問題點在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
13525.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
13547.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我們說有些案件它是遞延會發生六個月才會發生但這個是一直遞延下來我也覺得一直維持我首先要求的是不能往上升再來維持平衡之後就往下降我們再看下一個金額我們再看金額的數字院長本席希望能夠跟你好好就事論事就事情討論事情來看一下這個詐騙的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
13550.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
13563.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
你的報告也是畫一條紅線往下代表是說這個逐年往下嘛 對不對逐月往下嘛 但實際上是這樣子嗎實際上是這個樣子嗎我們看一下過去這五個月我們看一下過去這五個月嘛來 你看一下過去這五個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
13571.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
13595.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
過去這五個月從二月你剛講的農曆因為第一農曆二月天數比較少第二農曆過年放假比較多所以二月比較低但從三月一直到七月它其實呈現一個逐步往上的數字二月不是天數比較少是大團在休息放連假嘛但是三月到七月是不是一個逐步往上 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
13596.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
13612.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
是 我的要求是不能往上升所以現在往上升了你的要求看起來是破功啦院長我現在再請教院長不然部長 除非你想創外否則的話我先請教院長來回答好不好院長院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
13617.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
13644.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
圖形有所不同但是我不爭執這個事情我現在都是拿你今天的報告來跟你救教我今天都拿你今天的報告我不是要美化數字數字是科學 數字是理性 數字是務實但重點是本身現在看到的數字就是有問題你不能拿數字之後然後你給我一個圖表畫一條橫線往下你就以為催眠國人說現在是往下不對啊每個月有八十幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
13646.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
13669.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
五月八十五億 六月八十九億 七月八十六億八十幾億的詐騙金額在被詐騙 平均一天兩億到三億也是經過我們就是打造團隊的一個努力像一去年八月到十二月都是一半多月嘛那你現在就是不理性不科學的做法嗎但是我想這個都是一長期來看就是下降趨勢 就是我們打造有一些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
13670.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
13675.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
一些看到一個成果部長你還要跟我扯趨勢是不是你還要跟我扯趨勢嗎這個是什麼趨勢三歲小孩都看得懂趨勢你跟我扯趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
13681.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
13707.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我們從去年比較上他是下降的那現在足月有高高低低我們不滿意我們在這裡的對話我們這裡的對話不要讓外界覺得說您不滿意我滿意絕對不是我們都不滿意大家都不滿意所以我們會努力往下降所以民眾的民怨才會那麼高所以民眾才會希望大家好好的做實事做真事做對的事情而不是浪費時間浪費精力在搞其他的政治來 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
13709.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
13737.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
剛剛我也聽到黃珊珊委員有詢問到因為我們認為是說詐騙竟然每一個都是每一個都是一個血淋淋的案例但是我們也看到今年1月到6月這刑事警察局給本席的資料已經財損561億如果看這個趨勢下去很有可能今年會破千億院長有什麼方法可以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
13740.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
13764.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
剛剛我在報告裡面都把基本上的方法講了那這些方法只會越來越精進該橫向聯繫 該跨境合作該加強它的懲詐的效果跟司法院的互相的來就法制面來強化等等我們都會做這個都已經在進行當中就法制面來處理法制面的問題我先請教喔因為剛剛黃珊珊委員有提到一個案例這是四天前的一個新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
13765.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
13789.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我要不要跟那個詐騙300萬被抓車手假釋還高調拍片說沒有想賠我們看一下內容因為剛剛聽起來是院長跟部長沒有看到這一個影片嘛對不對我剛剛已經請部長要把這個影片找出來到底這個人是誰是真是假來如何處理他說錢已經被他花光了法院只跟他強制扣了有7000多塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
13790.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
13817.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
但是他花光了300萬他本來不打算賠錢認為錢關出來之後可以繼續花但是因為爭取假釋所以說他才要去和解院長如果說到最後台灣變成是笑評不笑唱如果說台灣社會變成是這種詐騙集團車手可以這樣子高調用社群媒體平台還這樣子肆無忌憚的把他的犯罪過程跟犯罪狀況PO在網路上你可以允許可以認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
13819.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
13838.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
所以我們現在才來講是說是不是能夠針對修法騙多少 欠多少 罰多少他騙了三百多萬結果到時候他只被強制扣押七千多塊可能是因為他三百多萬全部都已經花光了所以他名下沒有這些財產 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
13840.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
13863.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我們一般的民間借款 借了多少錢可能你都要還多少錢欠款都要還款但沒想到詐騙局就可以騙多少錢不用還他應該騙的金額院長 有沒有修法空間我們要啟動修法 請部長說明這部分在委員關心就是詐偽條例43條裡面我們有就高額的一個詐欺那以現在的來講的話 500萬元是 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
13865.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
13894.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
三到十年一億也是五到十二現在我們要再多一個級距我們想要是在中間如果一千萬的話就五到十二一億以上就七年以上我想這個高的渣期的這部分的確是要遏止一定要嚴加的研辦那這部分我們修正查明先再行政再審查中什麼時候可以出來我們這盡快因為這部分還邀司法院來做一個討論我們希望能夠盡快能夠達成一個公示能夠把這個法案送到立法院來審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13896.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13912.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
院長剛剛部長回答的是針對詐騙那另外嫌犯但是本席剛有提到另外一部分是針對他騙的錢因為你現在很多的案件其實你被騙的金額到最後你也是拿不回來有 這份公文包括這個是我們關心的是在詐偽條46跟47條 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13915.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13940.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
他那部分現在以刑事大法庭來講的話他是採報酬縮報酬縮所以說他三千七千塊只拿了一筆這是很不公平那我想我們當初的立法本來就是要全部以被害人的被交付的被害金而縮但是現在我們現在有修法有修正草案在4647條這部分仿照德國立法例我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13941.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13961.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
什麼時候可以出來我們現在是也是草案現在同時因為我自己修了好幾條8月14號那個對那個我們六位六位送過去那最近密集的在做一個開會做一個最近就在開會所以什麼來院長還是強調嘛你不能全部都是積在行政院你什麼時候可以來到立法院我們共同討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13962.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13974.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
因為這個還要跟司法院做討論我記得8月10幾號已經開過一次會了開過會有具體結論我們就把它法治法完整送交大院院長三個月內有沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13976.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
14001.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
現在是8月底了嘛我們9月10月會期下個會期一定提出來好不好下個會期是到12月一定提出來讓他可以大院有審議我們希望是在你總諮詢的時候總諮詢結束之後我們就可以來處理一定提出來讓大院有審議的時間好 院長其實本期還有很多的問題還有很多的意見尤其是針對我們現在所謂的這個融資公司專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
14002.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
14014.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
不能說融資公司因為其實大家看到很多的新聞案件融資公司也是現在有可能變成是詐騙集團的一環不要說讓劣幣驅逐良幣如果說合法的融資公司它可以持續的經營但是非法的很多的融資公司它沒有受到法律管理的時候很有可能會被犯罪回酬我們看到之前被逼死的那些民眾很大部分也都是有資金的居然被公佈在那裡我們會自己把他們的責任讓他們納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
14057.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
14060.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
好 謝謝侯孟凱文的資訊謝謝主任長 相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
14072.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
14098.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
好 接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢張志倫委員請準備好 主席 在場委員先進列席的政府基幹事長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們卓院長以及先邀請法務部部長跟金管會彭主委麻煩請卓院長法務部金管會備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
14110.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
14134.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
總委員好委員長好 部長好 主委好今天上午許多委員都關切國人最痛恨的打債來質詢這也是今天院長的專報就這麼巧在今天有一個2025年的亞洲詐騙報告當中提到亞洲14個國家或地區院長你覺得哪些國家的詐騙最頻繁 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
14137.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
14163.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
抱歉我倒沒有看到這個內容香港跟泰國被詐騙的頻率最頻繁但是台灣有高達七成的民眾在過去一年前曾經遭遇過詐騙所以可以理解為什麼民眾對於詐騙這麼深惡痛絕因為很多人都有類似的經驗結果中國的網路也不遑多讓他們說詐騙猖獗是因為A 騙子太多還是B 傻子太多院長你覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
14165.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
14185.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我想這是一個網路上他們在一種以笑虐的方式來進行但是我們嚴肅來看待往下看那請教法務部曾部長你認為引發竊盜的主要原因是因為受害人屬於防範他的財務還是贓物因為容易脫手變現引發了竊盜您的經驗那個犯罪的類型很多應該也不限於這兩種吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
14186.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
14200.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
不限於這兩種但是有人說鼓勵竊盜是因為髒物很好脫手啊如果髒物賣不掉他偷了也沒用往下看所以呢請教彭主委你認為詐欺超越竊盜成為犯罪大宗的原因有可能是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
14204.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
14215.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
直接提示因為網路交易已經取代了當面交付虛擬資產取代了實體貨幣以前你偷 要偷鈔票 偷金銀珠寶還要囂張 還要變現因此現在虛擬貨幣來無影去無蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
14220.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
14242.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
而且以前要到你山上爬現在不用直接在網路上你按個鍵網路就交易了這是詐騙的原因好我們往下看所以有一個最近有幾件事情讓我們看到了第一個是有台灣有超過4家業者成立第三方支付的工會彭主委這是一個正面的一個訊息雖然我知道第三方支付不是您的業館 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
14243.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
14265.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
是 當然任何一個工會它有自律那當然會比沒有工會好很多好 那另外也要請部長來看一下我們上週財委會到國泰世華跟華南銀行去實際考察他們銀行的零貴主詐跟他們跟警方配合辦案的情況結果第二條簡報說假三資可以詐騙很多錢那我們來看一下詐騙了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
14266.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
14287.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
第三方支付洗錢高達50億結果裁罰30萬民眾說太輕了院長你會不會覺得民眾會這樣感覺洗錢洗那麼多對不對那個案子部長應該了解嗎那調查去辦了結果裁罰30萬 訴發部裁罰30萬院長你覺得什麼原因呢民眾什麼感覺呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
14288.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
14308.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
不成比例但是往往我們忽略一點因為我們目前看到的洗錢防止法不管是第8條還是第13條它都是行政法都是程序上對這些參與洗錢的業者在他的刑事司法審理之前行政機關先祭出的華凡 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
14309.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
14331.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那滑環呢以地方開放支付來講是多少五萬到五百萬相較到洗錢金額當然是不成比例為什麼院長要跟您說明我們在宣傳打造的時候為什麼民眾還是這樣的錯覺因為我們在新聞媒體呈現出來的是龐大的洗錢金額跟少少的行政滑環事實上最重要的是哪一個部分後面這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
14332.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
14333.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
像這樣的一個刑罰的處罰是不是要等到法院審理完成的確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
14351.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
14379.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
這一定要判決 一定要判決 占卜確定院長 了解原因了沒有我聽了很多委員的質詢 很多民眾的抱怨哎呀 胖子太輕了啦為什麼認為胖子太輕我要生五十也要活五十萬其實這是一個誤解因為行政裁罰先後面的司法審理刑罰在後但是你認為目前是不是普遍人民認為就算刑罰判了也不夠院長你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
14380.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
14407.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
行動應該調整合理而且他的這個判決的時間也應該速審速決好但是儘管如此司法院的判決我們尊重也期待但是我們還是行政局外可以有所作為舉例來講我曾經問過彭主委類似這樣的問題其實詐團他們都利用人頭去開戶但是在現在的銀行金融機構不管你是證券戶要開交割戶到銀行要KYC你銀行自己本身自然能開戶也要KYC |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
14408.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
14426.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
甚至你是電子支付業者 這是金管會管的也要KYC KYC就認識你的客戶只要你臨櫃辦理 大概要很難用人頭辦為什麼 因為有一個叫財軍資訊公司的如果你拿人頭來辦他只要一查你這個名字以前申請帳號的行動電話跟你現在不同一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
14427.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
14455.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
為什麼行動電話不同因為詐團用人頭就叫用同一支行動電話比較好控制因此跟原來的那個人頭的留存的電話號碼就不一樣了就抓到了但是目前第三方置物業者跟虛幣交易所他們沒有這樣的被要求在開戶的時候沒有辦法透過財經資訊公司去自行因為財經資訊公司會告訴原來的用戶告訴宗嘉斌我發一個OTP給你你是不是來開戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
14456.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
14485.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
沒有這個查核院長了解了那可不可以請彭主委說那為什麼你認為財經資訊公司沒有辦法對於三資跟虛幣交易所來進行這樣的照會這也是我們在這一次打造專法在檢討修法的時候比如說我們有個同業照會機制這很重要是那怎麼辦因為他不同業所以我們也提出了修法建議在這次裡面同業照會要誰來修來請我們劉世芳部長跟我們的黃燕蘭黃部長因為這就是他們的業務了請 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
14488.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
14515.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
時間暫停 老闆請院長 因為打詐非常繁瑣希望透過您來聽我們質詢了解到各部會的合作很重要剛剛金管會要管 法務部要罰但是法要修 修哪一個法修詐欺犯罪危害防治條例這個是哪個部會主管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
14517.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
14541.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
沒有 很多部會一起除怪但是主責是內政部有內政部 法務部 還有金管會金管會提出要修法請問院長您覺得哪個部要趕快提出來哪個部要趕快提出 炸房條例要修改第八條要把其中的金融機構以及提供虛擬資產服務事業或人員也要納入照會的機制是不是請行政院趕快提出修法法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
14543.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
14572.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
報告委員其實這個炸房條例有若干條文現在已經在內政委會在討論現在的立法院的內政委會那您所提到的第八條如果要增刪下去的話我們要按照行政程序或按照立法程序來提出來好 那麼為什麼請黃部長來因為剛剛講的目前洗錢最多的就是第三方支付的假冒第三方支付業者黃部長是不是第三方支付是不是出發部管的第三方支付是我們現在那管理部會好 那我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
14573.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
14593.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
當我們要去透過這些洗錢的途徑防止詐騙來的金額逃竄無法追回我們有很多動作要做政府有在執行防詐措施但是在第一線不管是速發部在監看網路網頁的人還是我們內政部警政署第一線的員警他們往往要公文的層層覺醒因此 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
14594.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
14612.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
要錯過怕錯過時效如果以基層來講如果沒有獎勵他幹嘛做那麼多的事情那另外呢公務員執行這些書發部的黃部長有沒有如果我們同仁跟你說當他們要執行業務的時候也擔心被業者提告有沒有難免會有這樣的擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
14612.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
14641.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那我要告訴院長問題出在哪裡我們炸房條例第38條當我們要協助打炸的時候這些金融機構網路廣告平台第三方事務業者 電商業者他可以有一個免責條款免除他業務上因所的祕密他來配合檢警調偵辦他有一個免責條款所以業者可以說我提供給警方辦我不用擔心被客戶告所以有這個免責條款但是公務員沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
14642.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
14665.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
公務員沒有類似的設計所以速發部來講他主管的業務當中因為是管網路那麼動不動如果說配合辦案萬一給這些平台業者告公務員受不了院長要不要支持我們透過修法也讓公務員有這個機制讓他可以配合檢警調進行相關詐騙的防詐賭詐以及這些相關的偵辦作為我一向主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
14667.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
14693.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
公務人員在從事任何保障人民權利的時候跟自己的業務要用積極的方向來做如果他願意積極來做一些事情我們在刻意他重責顯然是不宜的所以如果到這個方向來做我們從這裡做合理的調整我覺得是好的方式那就請指示行政院相關的一個樣的一個免責的一個保障要有好其實我們目前呢防止詐騙基層員警很重要其中有一個叫做165專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
14695.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
14714.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
一路專線部長 劉部長這是一個任務編組還是一個常態編制現在是一個任務編組是的那麼這些人的技工嘉獎各種的續獎都是要回到原機關辦理所以我們希望說行政院能夠協助這些辦案有功的人員能夠得到積極的鼓勵好不好 院長要不要支持他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
14715.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
14736.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我請店長申報整合出來到底這個時候怎麼樣來處理對這些第一線很辛苦的員警們是最佳的鼓勵我們願意朝這個方向即刻來謝謝院長的肯定來我們今天看了這個表看了很多次了行政院認為說打詐有成趨勢是往下沒有錯但是我們看到這個紅線是詐騙金額那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
14741.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
14768.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
條塊是詐騙的案件量我們注意到在2014年的2月非常有效急速下降那個時候是因為我們社群的網路平台實施了廣告實名制這也因為法令通過之後我們速發部動手了詐團受到阻礙但是他馬上又找到對策所以案件又上升了所以長期看趨勢是下滑但是是有高有低就看我們有沒有持續的提出有效的防詐作為院長你說對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
14770.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
14781.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
要靠持之以恆啊報告委員這個圖表我們每一週的行政院的政務委員的政務會議林明星政委都會每個禮拜提出一個數字我只要求他 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
14782.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
14800.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
第一個不能往上升 這要努力了解 您剛剛說了很多次了我的意思是說不能只靠一朝一世因為詐團的手法千變萬化要持之以恆對不對所以持之以恆要怎麼辦我們往下看現在在我們刑事警察局底下要設一個詐欺犯罪防治中心他要推動他的組織法制化 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
14801.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
14829.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
但是要推動組織法治化在我們行政院要先行成共識要許到相關主管局的同意請問劉部長是不是我們行政院我們內政部這個刑事警察局已經得到行政院內部的同意了是的 我們在討論的過程當中行政院的包括政務委員他們覺得說165把它法治化是一個非常可行的方向好 院長法治化之後行政院還要送到考試院是不是院長可以承諾9月底之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
14830.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
14850.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
完成兩院的會嫌把這個法制化工作完成我要跟內政部好好談法制化的功用是在提升它整體的效率跟所有在第一線工作同仁的一個工作上的尊重如果這兩個要同時達到要求的目標我才願意這樣做的考慮所以9月底前有沒有把握 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
14851.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
14872.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
我們會就內容來討論我們來演你我是要因為已經到院長辦公室了到行政院了我們希望後續能夠得我昨天也問過考試院全序部他們也是全力支持但是為什麼會有要這樣詢問呢因為我們看一下因為刑事警察局過去內部有37個內部單位有時候被質疑說機關龐雜需要整併因此我們也請提醒我們內政部跟行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
14873.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
14898.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
根據中央行政機關組織基礎法第十條任務性已經完成或政策改變或者業務功能萎縮或重疊者要予診病所以當我們新設詐房中心的同時也要注意到刑事警察局內部這些分支機關的效能請一併做出檢討好不好好的 謝謝那怎麼檢討呢其實我就提一個例子讓你們知道一下其實我們看到國民參與審判制度就是所謂的俗稱國民法官法 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
14899.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
14928.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
他其實在當時五年前推動的時候他其實就很清楚的設定每年要提取民國報告而且執行滿六年之後要整個的通盤檢討如果有效繼續推如果效益不彰他就把它拿掉所以在我們立法的時候就把這樣的檢討機制放進去所以是不是也請行政院注意到我們推動打詐要搶求效率成如剛剛院長所說的要有效我們來實施檢討好不好好的好所以最後我們這邊就提出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14928.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14952.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
有關於進速推動 對不起 上一頁刑事警察局的這個詐欺犯罪防治中心的組織法之外也請你們行政院參照國民參與審判制度的規則對於一個成效跟評估把這個辦法 考評法定出來我一方面希望促成你們的成立二方面也責成行政院要經常的查核他們的成效院長可以嗎謝謝委員 這個建議很寶貴 謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14955.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14977.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
最後我就把今天對行政院提出的打詐的質詢希望對這些事項提出有關於詐欺犯罪危害防治條例的修正相關辦法有效打擊詐欺犯罪第一提供跨業照會的法據這在詐謗法當中要去修改第二行政機關參考免責條款的設計提供公務員保障的機制以及給予第一線基層及165專線員警能夠讓他們領到防詐的獎勵最後請競速 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14983.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14998.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
推動警政署行政警察局詐欺犯罪防治中心組織法治化並比照國民參與審判制度訂定成效評估相關法律法案辦法以利後續的組織整併增進現象院長您接受嗎我請內政部詳細的研議我們來處理謝謝院長謝謝部長兩位部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
15004.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
15027.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員質詢也謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢包括因為我們最後一位今天中午以前是張志倫委員即將質詢我們謝謝台中選區的黃建豪委員從早上陪專案報告到現在再次致謝那接下來張志倫委員結束質詢之後我們會進行午休現在請張志倫委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
15035.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
15052.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好 謝謝韓院長各位委員 各位官員 大家午安大家辛苦了有請卓榮泰院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢三位委員好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
15053.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
15080.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
卓院長好 辛苦了我是今天早上最後一位質詢今天要請教院長的事有關於我們打詐行動綱領2.0的執行成效首先還是要跟院長拜託因為大家知道現在全台灣詐騙案件的數量跟金額還是很高每一個被詐騙的家庭跟受害者常常會遭到家破人亡或者是被詐騙了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
15082.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
15107.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
這個心神不寧 寢食難安或是甚至有這樣子後遺症就是被恐懼下的後遺症所造成的影響所以這邊還是要拜託院長大家一起來努力讓打詐更有成效讓詐騙的金額逐漸減少那今天我提供一些資料給院長跟院長報告從111年的7月核定了打詐綱領以後到了112年提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
15109.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
15119.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
我們有了打炸綱領1.5以及到這次的2.0版本我們看到我們的預算我們行政院的預算從112年的1.28億到現在112跟113年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
15128.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
15145.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
15億以及到現在114年到115年我們整個的經費已經高達了33億所以基本上我們是有給希望是有給行政院足夠的打炸的經費那已經從上一次的1.5到2.0已經增加了兩倍的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
15146.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
15172.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
可是我們看到政府投入打詐的金額越高可是民眾被詐騙的金額也越高我們看到就是你們這次今天專案報告的資料也顯示從去年113年的8月到114年的7月其實也剛好滿週年警方共受理了19萬8千多件的詐欺案民眾的財損已經達到了一千 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
15174.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
15183.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
一千一百九十四億左右的這樣的金額等於國人一年的被詐騙的金額已經超過了千億所以本席要這邊跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
15185.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
15205.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
院長報告其實這個金額是有意義的代表現在詐騙的展值已經數字上實際數字上已經超過千億所以變成這樣的金額我們一定要好好來努力來把它給下降那人民對於政府打詐的民調來顯示我相信普遍的人民也是認為這個詐騙的越來越嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
15207.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
15228.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
而且問題有逐漸的惡化所以我要來請教也要跟院長報告本席認為打詐應該有六個字應該要來做才能有效的來降低詐騙就是應該要嚴查 嚴辦以及重罰院長你支持我這樣的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
15230.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
15237.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我覺得對於這個猖獗的犯罪的行為公權力一定要張揚出來才能夠保障人民的安全所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
15239.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
15265.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
嚴查嚴辦這當然是要的重罰的部分我們要經過修法來讓他的整個罰則跟他所受到的傷害以及財產的損失要成相當的比例好 謝謝謝謝院長可是首先我要先跟您報告有關於審計部所提出來的資料審計部裡面有提到似乎法官在過去的量刑有過輕導致車手繳回不罰所得後就輕輕放下 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
15266.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
15286.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
根據審計部的報告我不知道院長有沒有看過從108年到113年截至到113年8月底法院依照刑法第339條之四加重詐欺罪科處的刑期大多是在三年以下處三年以上的刑期只有1%所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
15289.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
15310.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
這樣子我覺得會讓人民尤其省紀部這邊也特別提到說會不會有認為法院侵犯的一個狀況其實就我跟很多在民間一起努力在打詐的一些好朋友他們所反映給我的他們說基本上很多詐騙的人他們詐騙完以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
15311.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
15340.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
他們不是判的是三年以上他們判三年以上不到1%他們很多都是判六個月以下然後都在服勞動服務他們怎麼做勞動服務他們就是在法院外面在掃地所以我這邊是不是可以請院長可以幫我做一個統計資料到底詐騙的人他們所過去所判的刑責到底是不是像審計部說的都是輕判 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
15341.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
15360.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
或甚至有些都是判六個月以下都是在做勞動服務的這個資料是不是可以提供本席來做參考據統計出來的數字跟太陽確實是如此所以我們經過層層的修法包括打炸釋法我們也希望說第一個加重它的罰則未來我們覺得還不足我們還要啟動新的修法程序請部長答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
15361.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
15376.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
這部分做一個補充的確那個是不是判得太輕剛才委員提到說大部分都判六個月以下在法院外面在掃地做勞動服務其實這個要跟委員報告事實上那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
15376.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
15393.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
因為絕大部分的那個網路電信詐欺的絕大部分案件都是車手跟尤其是人頭的一個提供人頭賬戶當然這個刑度是低但是我們要處罰就是詐團那一部分那現在我們有做一個這個的確是有要回應的話其實我們有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
15394.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
15421.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
要求我們依照詐偽條第50條來做一個要求檢查機關具體求刑那抬高檢署他也有提供一個具體求刑的一個標準你說的是刑事案件妥適量刑刑法嗎剛剛其他委員有提出來的對不對這個就是我們有做現有的這樣處理那剛才院長有提到就是要修法因為我們認為高額詐欺還要再加強另外我們也更司法因為這就是法官判的 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
15422.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
15444.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
所以我們跟司法院我們也就跟他做一個協調就是說我們提出我們的一個良心的標準給司法院做一個調整良心的一個參考所以省紀部提出來報告認為說判刑有稍微過輕事實上應該是有這樣的情形希望說未來還是可以提供本席這樣的資料到底詐騙犯他們所判刑的大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
15445.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
15473.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
大多數的比例是判多久還是要提供這樣的資料可以嗎第二個就是因為省紀部提出這樣的資訊說判刑過低所以再犯比例是相當的高我問了很多基層在查詐欺的警員跟我分享他說每次抓到詐欺犯都是同一批人都是同樣的人我請教院長跟部長你認為這些詐騙犯的再犯比例有多高 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
15474.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
15492.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
這部分我們再做一個數據再一個我收到的資料我想說整個是辦案不立這個沒有我們現在辦案那個我收到的資料那個再犯比例其實超過八成這個詳細的數字我要請部長你好好來統計一下所以我希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
15494.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
15520.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
剛剛我們有提到所以我說在量刑的部分一定要是不是有需要重罰所以我們的刑事案件這個妥適量刑罰這個部分我也希望說是不是可以盡速來提供立法的一個動作這部分我們再來提供另外其實跟我們做一個補充其實現在那個假釋緩刑了假釋那部分我們就是在詐謀條例出犯我們就到刑期要執行三問之二才會假釋謝謝部長我們要三問的話就不假釋了 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
15522.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
15536 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
好 OK 那我們進下一個我們看一個剛剛很多委員給院長看的影片我們簡單快速看一下300萬是什麼意思就是這台有一個財損局到我頭上的300萬他只幫你扣7213元我跟你講為什麼因為錢花完你這樣可能扣到又不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
15550.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
15556.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
像我們這種有沒有如果你今天不和解不賠錢給受愛人的話假設就是賠那麼好過通常都會關到九成 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
15564.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
15592.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
好 謝謝院長跟部長我相信你們剛剛已經看過這影片看過我多次了我的問題跟其他委員的問題可能不太一樣這裡面提到了很多的元素第一個是被害人的財損的金額是300萬其實剛剛這裡面我覺得他這個影片是有設計過的就是低於嚴重財閥的500萬之內到底被害者的損失金額多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
15594.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
15605.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
沒有一個準確的一個金額可是它裡面提到了幾個重點就是說它裡面的教學影片要求車手或是詐騙集團把詐騙的金額給花掉花到 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
15606.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
15634.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
他最後能查到的金流只有七千兩百一十三萬這就認定是他的犯罪所得第二個重點他為了要尋求保釋所以他就是跟法官請求說那法官如果我除了我自己的犯罪所得以外我再多繳一點錢給這些被害人是否就可以申請假釋或檢除其刑那我想要請教針對這樣子的重點部長跟院長你們要如何來回應這些詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
15636.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
15656.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
詐騙的車手已經在網路上宣傳教這些其他可能未來潛在的車手這樣的行為我覺得這是非常嚴重的一個問題我認為這個影片我真的是很糟糕他那個車手詐騙進入就是剛才我有提到就是規避那個詐偽條例43條的高額詐欺的徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
15656.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
15680.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
現在但是他如果說第三百萬還是回到刑法339條就是加重詐欺那是一年以上七年以下這部分我們在位其實三百萬也是金額蠻高我們會做具體的酬刑另外車手把錢花掉剩下7213這就剛才委員 局委委員有提到就是說刑事大法庭裡面採證的說法就是個人的報酬說 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
15681.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
15701.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
而不是整個被害人損害說那這部分我們有做一個修法的修正草案還有那個五百萬的規避的等等那個我們另外再做修法的一個所以我還要請教另外那個和解什麼假釋那一頓剛才有公務員報告過了詐偽條例出犯你一定要到三分之二才有辦法合乎假釋的門檻不一定要給他假釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
15702.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
15727.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
另外有雷犯的話 委員關係有雷犯這部分我們要達四分之三如果第三次犯的話我們就完全沒有假釋的機會了所以我們起死氣之案我們在審核這些詐騙的話我們還是說嚴加審核那這部分我想這個影片這個是一個教學影片就像部長講的一件事跟委員報告我們剛剛看到影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
15728.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
15750.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
部長在研究如果我們現在是我們已經可以將他落地的四大平台Meta、IG、Google、YouTube乃至Trade我們都可以要求他剛剛看的是TikTok就是無法落地不讓我們管理所以這個平台是絕對是有他的問題如果是其他平台我們馬上就可以有著力點可以出去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
15751.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
15775.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
其實院長跟部長可以去坊間查問一下大概車手所拿到的報酬大概是犯罪所得的百分之多少絕對不會像他們講的這麼低其實有時候車手他嘴巴講的是這麼低未來他可能還會跟詐騙集團使用虛擬貨幣的方式來去交錢的這樣的問題所以我們才說還有很多相關的法令要來實施比如說虛擬貨幣專法等等的也希望院長跟部長來加強一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
15776.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
15793.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
那再來我要講的特別時間的關係我特別要講的就是有關於我們現在第一線很辛苦的不管是警察同仁在抓車手或抓詐騙集團的部分其實或是在做監聽等等這樣的工作其實都非常的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
15793.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
15813.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
其實現在其實內政部已經有提出一個防制詐欺犯罪有功人員檢舉獎勵辦法等等這樣的問題其實是可以讓我們第一線的執行人員在遇到這麼危險的這些狀態的時候是有一個講仇的機制我現在聽說這個草案還在行政院核准當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
15813.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
15834.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
那是不是應該要快速來趕快來通過讓我們基層的警察同仁或是在執勤的人員有一個更強力的這個獎勵方式讓他們來執勤是 因為我知道內政部有提出這樣一個草案出來那我也是看到這樣的內容我覺得讓他更精進所以我今天在早上報告的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
15835.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
15863.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
我一直強調對這些第一線的工作夥伴給予更多的感謝跟鼓勵我想我的用意也在這裡那我們會加速我請內政部說明委員我們除了法治化以外其實我們7月開始的時候已經有這些獎勵金的核發原則按照比例現在大概是發給2000到1萬元所以就要拜託部長把這個草案的內容跟你現在實際有發放的金額做一個對比這已經會整個部會的意見目前正在審議中跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
15863.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
15882.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
好 最後我還是要拜託其實在詐騙體團他們有一個手法很單純他們都是會設立一個群組像剛剛我們院長講的他們會設立一個群組不管是用LINE FB的群組他們會設立一個聊天群當車手被抓的時候他們就會把這個車手在這個聊天群裡面剔除掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
15882.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
15912.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
所以很重要的一個機制就是我們是不是可以溯源到我們這些的平台業者很多在國外的業者他們願不願意提供給我們相關他們的聊天紀錄等等這些資料就我了解的是他們在取得的部分是有困難的請問是這樣嗎所以我要問院長跟部長的是我們跨國的合作的進度到底是如何以及我們相關的很多的我們跟這些平台業者我們到底拿不拿到這些他們的聊天紀錄等等這樣的資料是不是有遇到相關的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
15913.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
15930.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
困難等等這些問題那我們有沒有一些明確的時間表讓我們可以跟這些平台業者來做一個很好的溝通是不是可以請部長院長來是 鮑委員是這樣子我們在去年一整年當中還陸續到包括日本去尋求包括LINE或者是Meta這些他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
15931.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
15955.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
是不是有拿不到資料的問題做決策的人告訴我們說如果台灣要實施這個實名制要落地的時候他們能不能夠做到所以目前為止我們按照這樣子的程度跟數位部一起來努力慢慢再做到了希望用實名制的方式來落實這是第一點然後第二個就是有關那個網路廣告平台的部分也是一樣你必須要落實你沒有落實的話用很快的速度的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
15969.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
15982.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
好 謝謝張志倫委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝歡迎各位 我們上午會議進行到此為止下午兩點三十分繼續開會再次呼籲各黨團能夠下午敦促 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
15984.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
15996.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
所有的委員盡量多多參與專案報告再一次謝謝台中選區的黃敬航委員從早一直陪到現在參與專案會議非常感謝我們現在進行休息下午兩點半繼續開會 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
21569.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
21590.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
歡迎會員 我們現在繼續開會接下來我們請郭育秦委員質詢王宏威委員請準備謝謝主席 有請院長麻煩請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
21606.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
21622.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我想從最近大家一直在關心所謂的這個詐騙的這樣子的一個議題風源一家五口的一個悲劇我想這個不是只有台灣其實詐騙這樣子的一個全世界都在關注的議題其實在歐美也是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
21623.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
21641.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
那根據統計27%的受害者他們在接觸詐騙的同時其實在第一個小時內受騙的人其實也非常非常之多那另外呢關於投資以及交友詐騙這個長時期的被養套殺就是取得所謂的被害人的一個信任 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
21642.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
21661.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
到巨額的一個金錢被騙我想這一年平均下來整個所有的犯罪所得是高達將近這個還是2022年的統計高達700億以上我想這一連串我們看到詐騙的一個問題都是長時間大家普遍關注的一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
21663.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
21675.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
當然去年我們的行政院跟立法院其實也合作通過了新打炸四法我們從內容當中可以看到從市炸 堵炸 防炸跟阻炸以及我們的城炸 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
21676.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
21704.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
這五個部分的面向當然我們也看到最近其實我們也有很多就是破獲的一些案件當然也交出了一些成績單但我想做得永遠不夠根據今年的7月光是打詐飆板當中數據顯示我就以一個地區來做這樣子的一個例子說明包含台中光是詐騙集團被破獲的數量是高居全國第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
21704.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
21720.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
那另外呢他的這個詐騙集團被破獲的高達有50團432個人落網那受理的這個詐騙的案件呢也是高居第二那整個所有的這個詐騙的案件數是高達2245件 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
21722.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
21743.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
那造成的財損光是7月份就已經高達了有11億多那我不曉得為什麼很多的詐騙集團是選擇在中部那也有許多的這個查獲的數量其實在台中也是最多的但並沒有因為被查獲的數量增多 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
21744.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
21756.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
而下降他所被詐騙的這樣子的一個金額跟財損這個是兩相矛盾的一個現象我們有沒有分析過這個背後的原因大概會是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
21758.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
21775.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
委員我先報告一下您提到說台中市最多那其實有我們警政署的資料大概六都裡面第一個人口多第二個交通便利還有就是說他在包括網路或者是其他的通訊都非常的好而且因為他在大樓裡面或是在園區裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
21777.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
21802.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
隱密性反而高比在偏鄉來得好所以被查獲到的次數就是您看到的統計資料就比較多我想這個是我們警政署的同仁在統計的時候所得到的一個統計的結果所以我想我們也會特別留意在都會地區如何可以把這個詐騙集團可以來處理的一個最重要的一個關鍵部長也點出了我等一下要接下來要詢問的 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
21803.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
21825.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
這個是媒體的報導我想已經不止一次的一個報導包含台中的七級高級商辦因為它的管制嚴格但反而成為博弈炸團的工作基地這個其實也是都經過媒體多次的報導也連同這樣子的一個報導當中其實我們可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
21825.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
21848.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
這些所謂的這個高級商辦豪宅地區那原本他的管制其實就是嚴格但是也很容易淪為所謂的詐騙集團他們的工作基地那就如同剛剛部長所說的因為隱密性高但是呢就是他的所有人就是房屋的所有人他不管是短期租賃也好或者是他自己持有也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
21849.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
21865.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
其實在短期租賃容易讓他們比方說他們可以用比較高於行情的一些租金可能月付押金的一個方式他就可以租下這個豪宅那因為豪宅跟豪宅之間鄰居啊其實他們的互動時期相對的是減少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
21866.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
21890.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
所以其實他們的管理可能就產生了這樣子的一個漏洞那在這樣子的一個漏洞當他們聽到一些風吹草動的時候他們是即刻就可以逃離現場這個也讓我們的警方其實也是長期來是難以追查這是原因之一第二個我剛剛講因為詐騙集團他們通常有時候不是只有用短期租賃他們是直接買下合法的掩護 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
21891.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
21910.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
或者所謂的直接買下合法掩護因為他把它當成一個長期作案的一個基地那基於他的產權其實是合法的那相對來講他的管委會或者他的保全其實並沒有明確的被法律授權去進行所謂的通報相對的來講也保護這些所謂的詐騙集團的總部的一個安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
21911.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
21927.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
這個也變成是我們在看到像七夕這樣所謂的高風險的一個社區租賃或者是購置的一個行為我們針對這個部分有沒有一套可以更加有效而且管理的一個機制來彌補這樣子的一個漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
21927.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
21947.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
報告委我們了解這樣的狀況您所提到的非常的正確也就是說有的時候他還會用人頭戶的方式他並不是用真名然後再來就是豪宅跟豪宅或者是房間跟房間之間大家都互不相認識除非說他出入或者是有一些其他的犯罪這樣子的部分這地方的政府警察才會去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
21948.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
21967.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
所以我們現在中央跟地方的部分就要來協助就是如果發現它有異常也就譬如說它在電腦網路上面突然跳增非常的高或是用電量非常高的話我們會用這樣的方式來查找有可能潛在的加害的這個集團那這個都要長時間的監控才有可能達到這樣的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
21967.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
21987.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
所以現在這些長時間的監控已經開始在著手進行其實我們都會有留意但是最最最佳的方式還是說會透過譬如說有人來檢舉那我們會更快因為如果詐騙集團假設他們都是比較年輕的或是說看起來很像是犯罪幫派這樣的話警方才會特別留意 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
21988.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
22015.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
但是如果他打扮得很時髦很登對或者看不出來的話人家以為他就是豪宅裡面的住戶所以還是要透過檢舉的方式比較好如果說郭委員有這方面的資訊的話您給我們馬上就來處理我想這個七期的模式應該絕非是個案我們也擔心其實因為豪宅也不是只有台中有其實各地都有豪宅但是類似像這樣子的一個所謂的犯罪的模式我們也擔心它其實已經會變成是 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
22017.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
22040.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
全台灣各地的豪宅型或複合型的這些所謂的社區它會形成一個巨大的一個社區防線的破口我想這樣子的一個模式有可能會複製到全台灣各地那我想很多的豪宅其實他們追求所謂的這個高隱私就我剛剛講的鄰居其實不互相往來那就會變成零監督的一個環境再加上有時候是租期短 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
22041.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
22068.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
豬集團就更難掌握他到底是第幾手的轉租所以這個人的流動讓很多的成豬人的動態其實根本沒有人知道所以其實這個也是我們非常擔心的一個部分那另外就是在詐騙集團就是利用這些所謂的這些漏洞那北中南各地他們在用所謂的VPN或者是多跳節點這些所謂的科技的一個手段就會讓我們的警方其實更難掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
22069.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
22085.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
這也是我們真的一直不斷的我們在想這個上有政策正在下有對策其實他們也不斷的在翻新他們所謂的詐騙的一些手法我們很擔心這不是一個單一的個案而是全台灣是目前持續在擴散當中的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
22086.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
22105.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
那我想如果再加上這個屋主他自己本身就是詐騙集團的成員如果他又是詐騙集團成員利用自家的豪宅來進行所謂的犯罪其實管委會跟物業管理我們應該要怎麼樣來從外圍來做控管這個我們有想過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
22106.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
22129.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
我想我們可以從不一定是警政系統啦譬如說民政系統或者是大樓管委會就是如果有出入人口複雜或者是很奇怪這整個月都沒有人進出可是用電量又非常的高然後每天都叫便當這表示說他們可能在裡面從事的是詐騙的行為那這個呢還是一樣如果管委會不願意提供給我們這個資訊因為管委會他是要保護用戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
22130.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
22152.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
他自己本身的一個隱秘性他如果沒辦法提供我們這些資訊的話會比較難一點但是我們還會從其他的管道來試看看好像譬如說今天早上有多位委員有提到有一位在抖音上面在炫耀說他賺了300萬然後他只要賠7000多塊然後就可以不被收押禁建 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
22153.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
22176.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
事實上我們也在提供資訊的時候我們的刑事警察非常的認真院長有交代其實我們在8月9號的時候已經通報抖音把這個影片要下架而且我們在8月13號中午的時候已經將這位姓廖的疑似嫌疑犯查緝盜案函請雲林地檢署來偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
22177.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
22199.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
也就是說警方如果有任何這方面的資訊提供給我們的話我們會很快不管是從網路或是其他實體的查緝到案的部分動作都會非常的快接下來我想要請問的就是所謂的跨部會的治安協作的部分我想這個不是單一只有警政署或者是我們的內政部還包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
22201.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
22229.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
移民署或者是甚至我們的這個抒發部的部分那我想這個跨部會的一個協作那不管是我們的這個公寓大廈管理條例當中我們是不是也要做有一些灰色地帶的一個修正來防堵這一類的所謂的這個詐騙的這個事件那另外還有包含就是我們這個對外籍人士的車手他們短期來台的動態其實掌握不足這個其實也會成為這個詐騙當中的另外一個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
22230.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
22255.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
其實可以去關注的一個地方那另外就是所謂的這個高隱密性的所謂的機房的這個網路流量的分析其實這也是警政署這個地方或者書發部這個部分我們可能也要是要加強那我想在我們的這個詐騙集團其實他比較常利用剛剛我們講到的是豪宅去收受所謂的這個大筆的現金讓金流的部分其實掌握其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
22257.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
22282.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
有時候它的金流掌握是更加的困難我在這裡我想請教一下關於金管會的部分金管會是不是我們請金管會金管會是不是能夠將豪宅當中異常的現金流納入洗錢防治法的一個監控網這個部分我們有這樣子的一個措施怎麼樣來盯這一類的漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
22282.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
22292.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
世保委員如果它這個豪宅是有涉及到貸款那我們當然是完全能夠掌握到這個金流如果它大額資金的流動本來就在我們洗錢房子的納管範圍之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
22294.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
22323.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
另外在科技的部分我想就是我剛剛提到豪宅內當中的這些機房其實它要去偵查的難度其實是比較高的那犯罪集團它常常會利用所謂的這個VPN這個多跳節點的一個隱密的一個網路的流量那書發部在這個部分有沒有透過類似的科技上的一個手段能夠協助發現及早發現類似這樣子一個高密隱密性的一個機房 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
22324.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
22337.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
報告委員 這個的確是個問題那偵測的方式剛剛講就從流量或者是甚至於可以偵測就是網路流量還有用電量那甚至還有人說可以用電視播去偵測 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
22338.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
22360.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
這個我們都有在持續關注但不過現在最大問題是第一個就是說尤其是他們當連上VPN到國外以後他們常常是真正發送那些大量的訊息或者這種詐騙的訊息是從國外發送回來所以國內出去的流量不大可是到國外就大量進來所以說有時候在技術上比較困難鎖定另外一點就是說就算我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
22361.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
22386.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
有懷疑還是需要有法規的依據去進去查驗所以我想在這裡面我講技術上還是有點挑戰那在實行上的確需要跟各部位合作你說技術上其實目前還是需要有挑戰就是剛剛講就是說第一個就是說它的流量因為現在這種有方法嗎我們有找到一些方法嗎或者是我們可以複製國外他們怎麼樣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
22387.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
22410.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
因為他們現在都是用VPN引到國外去說真正的犯罪的server是在國外所以大量的流量是從國外進來這個都不見得是從公寓裡面出去的所以這個是當然我們可以跟ISP業者或者ISP業者合作看看能不能把這種流量把它找出來不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
22411.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
22435.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
是有機會可以去解決不過這目前還是有些挑戰就是好 這些挑戰我們什麼時候可以盡快的我們再回去研究一下但是我會覺得這個會有挑戰這委員的想法很好但是我想這個我們再回去再去分析請陳書偉好跟委員報告是剛剛委員提到的這個流量部分其實在原來我們警方在處理這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
22437.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
22464.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
攔截違反著作權的信號OTTV那一塊已經處理過炸團也有這種情況但是炸團它本身進一步的把流量分散所以現在比較不容易處理但是這個機制警方其實一直持續有在掌握有跟電信公司在掌握當中好 我想打炸這個工作其實真的是從上到下我們每一個人其實都要特別去 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
22465.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
22484.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
去關注最後其實我還想要再強調一點我想許多的受害者應該是說被詐騙的這些受害者他們其實都是社會支持系統比較薄弱的一些族群比方說像老人家我想這個部分其實他們失去了畢生的積蓄之後可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
22485.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
22507.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
苦於不敢開口那也不敢去報警然後他們礙於顏面的關係但最後其實我們看到有許多就因此走上絕路那我想這些數字上遠遠高於資料的一個顯示那納入公共衛生或者是在我們的社福的部分來填補這些社會的安全網的一個裂縫也是我們當務之急這個部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
22521.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
22522.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
22535.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
22548.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
卓院長喝口水吧你每次喝完水我才會呼叫下一位好 謝謝接下來我們請王宏威委員質詢蔡易瑜委員請準備好 主席我請卓院長還有內政部部長NCC |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
22563.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
22583.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
代理主委 處發部部長 經管會主委 法務部部長王會員 我們一次是三位為主那就先請院長和內政部部長以及法務部部長好 謝謝 請卓院長 內政部 法務部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
22592.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
22611.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
王委員好院長好時間要暫停一下我現在是請兩位部長就位好時間暫停好院長我想請問一下針對現在政府反詐騙的成績您滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
22613.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
22635.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
早上也有相當多的委員詢問過這樣我始終的答案是我知道我跟國人一樣都不會滿意現在的任何成績但是我希望大家給我們第一線的工作人員多一點的鼓勵多一點的時間我想請問一下我們內政部長您認為在內政部的工作打照有收到成效嗎您滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
22637.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
22661.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
報告 報告委員從來沒有滿意過因為打炸本來就是有很多不同的面向大家一起合作但是我們第一線的同仁確實很我們第一線的同仁確實很努力非常的努力在處理打炸有成效嗎我認為成效不是太好但是我們仍然有很多接近的空間我請教我們法務部部長您對法務部打炸的成效您滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
22663.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
22689.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
我想我們可以再更有努力的一個空間那我想我們檢察官也跟各個機關來做一個合作好 所以成效仍然不夠好對 那個我們有很多的非常好的一個案例那我想對一個詐團這其實也建立一個很好的一個我來請院長和部長其實我剛才點名的幾位部長首長也請你們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
22690.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
22719.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
行政院一直把打詐作為一個主要的施政的目標但是這幾年行政院變成伏詐王也就是從蔡英文政府時代那個時候從成立所謂的跨部會中心的打詐中心一直到2022年又成立了打詐國家隊2023年蔡政府又成立了行政院的打詐辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
22720.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
22742.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
可是我們打詐的金額跟數量逐年升高並沒有隨著這些打詐中心打詐辦公室而有所改善而這兩年我們打詐就是被詐騙的金額更是節節升高以今年1到7月份我們半年被詐騙的金額達到555億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
22746.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
22766.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
比去年的502年已经超越了而这个是我们行政院又成立新世代打击诈骗诈欺行动纲领的2.0所以我们现在每一个首长来都说要打仗预算也编了 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
22767.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
22785.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
但是如我們看他的被詐騙的數字尤其金額事實上是越來越讓人觸目驚心所以行政院變成伏詐王而不是打詐王我另外請教在今年我們編列了預算2025年 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
22787.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
22807.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
中央政府就是當時因為要打炸所以這個有關於打炸的預算由前一年的2024年13億元增加到73億元增加的數量不算少是倍數5.6倍之多我想請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
22809.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
22834.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
這麼多的預算的金額其中還是網路課金運用的經濟計畫所以我剛才為什麼去特別去點名像數法部NCC請問一下我們的預算用到哪裡去了為什麼我們編列這麼多的預算給行政院說實在我在司法法治委員會法部說要打仗要編預算我們一毛錢都不敢刪全部給 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
22835.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
22861.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
但是我們打炸的成績剛才看到鴨鴨屋所以我想請問一下這樣子的一個成績所以我剛才請教各位你們滿意嗎如果你們滿意的話我覺得所有的老百姓欲哭無淚好你們在報告裡面也講到打炸有幾個試炸這個是主要是內政部的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
22861.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
22881.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
賭詐NCC防詐速發部阻詐金管會懲詐懲戒詐騙法務部所以院長最近也講到行政院要內閣改組如果以現在詐騙這種成績這幾個部會誰應該要下台部長請說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
22889.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
22905.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
謝謝委員打炸當然是國家重要的施政方向但是各部會不是單一做打炸這件工作我當然會要求各位首長專注在打炸這個事情上提出一個更讓國人理解跟接受的成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
22906.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
22920.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
但是部會的工作包羅萬象我會用綜合性的考量來看看對整個團隊對政府的施政對人民有沒有提出更好的政策我們政府的施政終究會有一些目標跟KPI值 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
22922.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
22951.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
那麼有些是財經財經做得好不好那就要看了看我們的經濟成長率看我們的失業率看我們的消費物價是不是有通貨膨脹這都是有數字可以去做一個參考剛才講到這幾個部會沒有錯我也同意他的工作不是完全是在打擊詐騙可是當現在的打詐的工作已經確實做到所有的國人都有感 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
22951.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
22973.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
那種有感是什麼 有感的憤怒啊 有感的憤怒現在已經到了摩才害命的地步我們最近發生的台中豐原一家五口我們很難過 自殺死亡 為了詐騙我們也有看到內湖母女 一對母女也為了詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
22975.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
22982.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
而這個輕生所以當我們看到這麼多的社會事件而我們去看到打炸的成績所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
22984.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
23004.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
院長你覺得這幾個部會打詐的成績我不認為你會滿意如果你滿意的話那就代表你們是整個政府的集體麻木所以我想請問未來在內閣改組裡面打詐不力會不會成為內閣改組的一個檢討的其中的一個環節 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
23005.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
23029.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我早上的報告跟剛剛我們都說過我們不會以現在做的成績做任何的滿意但是我們如果跟去年8月跟今年相比我們在案件數有降低了22%財產損失有降低了37%這當然還是有相當高的金額但至少趨勢有在緩緩下降我們給我們的法律依據法律手段更多的所以這個意思還要給你們時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
23030.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
23034.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
我希望大家給我們更多一點時間還要給時間我們把現在的機制讓它更完善更強大依照現在所列舉的各種機制來做好各種工作這就是你不了解為什麼你們現在的整個內閣的民調滿意度這麼低 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
23049.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
23077.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
其实老说所有的相关的这些政府施政打诈是民运最高的其中之一我们了解同意好另外院长跟您请教一下我们再来看下一页今天在网络上有一个公文因为现在诈骗太多了我要跟院长来求证一下网络上有一个公文就是总统府函文给行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
23079.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
23101.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
這個檢証本府公共事務室會診就是今年7月份民眾關注的重要議題其中一個就是要檢討今年7月26號罷免投票結果檢討罷免失敗的原因而且提供後續的施政建議院長 這個公文是真的還是假的因為我不曉得是不是詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
23102.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
23128.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
而且我沒有看過這個公文但是如果文藝看起來他是反映民眾關注重要議題像這樣反映民眾關注議題的文會有相當多這只是很多當中的一件而已當民眾有提出這個時候希望行政院來檢討就會轉到這裡來這只是過程當中所以你就會檢討所以院長我看我想你看到這個公文的時候你會被皮皮剉因為第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
23130.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
23158.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
在整個大罷免當時總統賴清德主席講說這是公民團體的運動但是後來我們看到民進黨中央有很多的發文民進黨直接拿公文要求配合大罷免這個是我們第一次看到來自於總統府提到大罷免所以請問一下這種公文到底是總統的韓文還是黨中央的韓文 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
23158.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
23185.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
報告委員 他並不是要我們配合大罷免的任何行動他是民眾來要求我們做這樣的檢討但是我認為行政院重要的工作不在檢討罷免的成敗與否行政院檢討是罷免也好或是8月23的公投也好這個投票的秩序是不是順利這個才是我們該檢討的這個公文裡面有說檢討罷免失敗原因承認大罷免大失敗所以您承認大罷免大失敗嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
23186.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
23213.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
我們只希望不管是罷免或是公投讓罷免跟公投的投票行為能夠順利這個是行政院的工作中選會跟行政院的工作至於他的結果如何不在我們檢討的範圍另外院長我請教在726之後總統府已經要求你們要去檢討失敗的原因而且提供後續的政績那麼如果823也大罷免繼續大失敗您會因此請辭下台嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
23214.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
23221.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
我們不會去檢討罷免失敗的原因只要罷免的投票順利不順利這才是行政院會檢討的地方希望他能夠順利那麼一個政治工作者隨時 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
23235.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
23258.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
對國人負責這是應該有的態度院長 我剛才特別講其實你的打詐大失敗你們的打詐大失敗絕對也是這次大罷免大失敗的原因但是其中因為檢討有關於大罷免失敗的原因我也要問因為這兩天你們行政院傳出終於要普罷現金一萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
23259.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
23284.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
因為之前行政院說我們立法院通過的普發現金一萬元是違憲然後又說呢這個呢根本是政府沒有錢那甚至有民進黨立委還說這是配合中共的窮台政策把我們立法院通過的普發現金一萬元講的不值一文 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
23285.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
23304.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
那可是現在呢行政院也提出要普罷現金一萬元那我請問一下之前你們對於立法院所通過普罷現金一萬元的種種的污蔑和抨擊這是不是一個詐騙這不是污蔑我們是表達行政的立場我們要舉借這是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
23305.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
23324.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
這次的2350億以上的普發現金其中部分要舉借債務來支應這是事實當時沒有經過徵詢行政院而增加大幅的支出違反了憲法跟預算法的精神這也是事實所以你們現在你們來發就沒有違憲你們來發就沒有財務的問題這個說得通嗎我們是舉債 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
23333.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
23361.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
然後我要跟院長說你們因為政治上的鬥爭一直在延遲整個的我們因應美國貿易戰特別條例我們的特別條例在7月15號就在立法院三讀通過8月1號總統府就公告如果你們不這樣折騰來折騰去一直在東搞西搞現在又搞一個特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
23362.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
23370.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
搞來特別條例接下來就要送特別預算了對不對是這時辰有沒有延當 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
23371.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
23393.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
我們在特別條例通過的時候我們這時候談判正到最後的關頭我們也很希望在談判底定的時候是不是對特別條例內容要再做有所調整所以保留了一點彈性即使到現在為止談判的最後決定還沒有出現20%是暫時性關稅所以你自己都發現你站不住腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
23393.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
23414.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
因為你們自己說這是暫時性如果百分之二是暫時性你現在即便通過來的特別條例更不要說你們還沒有告訴我們有多少市場要開放還有美國多少的產品過來關稅要降低甚至是零關稅我們通通不知道一樣蝦子摸象一樣摸石頭過河 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
23415.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
23424.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
那在這個狀況之下你們一直遲延延遲又把特別條例送過來我再審你特別預算所以啊 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
23426.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
23453.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
我老實說你們是不是多此一舉啊不是8月1號行政院行政效率之低下就來自8月1號20%的特別的暫時性關稅才宣布出來8月7號開始執行那我們為了說暫時性關稅能夠延續多久還保留一個彈性所以我們在預算特別條例的修正案當中提出的第二期200億的保留我們有做這樣的彈性運用請委員支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
23454.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
23474.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
我們其實有關於產業資源的部分我們都會支持所以我們當時第一時間你們從880億提高到930億我們都說無條件支持你們只是為了一個普巴現金因為這樣卡卡卡我有講過蘇貞昌院長當時普巴現金當時112年2月21號特別條例三讀然後當天總統府就公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
23483.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
23505.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
即使如此特別預算搞了一個月才過來才三讀通過在那個時候特別條例經總統府公告然後特別預算也到一個月才通過但是那時候蘇貞昌院長算是他是有效率的所以我要在這邊講就是因為你們花了 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
23521.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
23523.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
好 謝謝王宏威委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長貝勛 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
23541.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
23551.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
院長喝水喝完水我就會好謝謝我們接下來請蔡宇委員質詢賴思寶委員請準備謝謝院長那我們是不是有請卓院長以及我們法務部部長麻煩再請卓院長法務部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
23577.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
23582.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
院長好因為今天的專報是針對打擊詐騙我們針對打詐2.0執行的成效事實上我們也都看到了詐騙尤其是在投資詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
23597.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
23622.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
大概是現在說這個詐欺犯罪裡面佔了65%強而且台灣的2025有一份民調說有超過72%的人他們表示他們都遭遇過詐騙當然每一個人是否會被詐騙當然又看他每一個人會遇到不同的情境但是大家都很擔心自己遭受詐騙那以及確實 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
23623.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
23637.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
最近因為詐騙然後他可能一輩子的積蓄被騙走造成他沒辦法在之後維持生計甚至有很多我們看到我們很不想看到的一些新聞的一個事件就因此而發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
23637.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
23666.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
所以這個打炸這件事我覺得在我們整個行政團隊來說一定是一個很重要的任務所以我相信院長部長在場每一位我們每一位行政團隊的長官甚至到最基層的員警大家都很認真在打炸這個我都相信但是在這麼認真打炸的時候為什麼我們還是沒辦法真正有效的遏止打炸呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
23667.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
23683.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
院長我想聽聽看大概這段時間我們的努力來跟我們遇到的一些瓶頸是什麼首先第一個就是每個禮拜行政院政務委員的會議林明星政委都會就那一週整個詐騙案件的案件數跟金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
23684.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
23698.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
來做分析跟比較來報告給所有的政務委員了解我們在那邊共同討論這也印證剛剛委員所說的大家實在是很用心在這一塊上面但是打炸的事情是當我們有新的方式出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
23699.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
23721.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
詐騙集團也是吹塵出心手段翻新他們的方式也一直在改變而且利用數位化的科技而且用境外的方式而且用不同的年輕族群去從事一些比較低階的詐騙的車手工作讓我們實在是在這個整個唯獨網上產生了相當大工作的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
23722.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
23748.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
這個都是詐騙集團一直發生的從他們鎖定各種不同的特定族群來施以這種從語言方式各方面來加以引誘所以我們要找出潛在的這些被害人加以分析提前告訴他們所以我們從市詐 房詐 城詐 賭詐一直到城詐各方面都分別了很多的工作在做這是我們現在在做的當然有所不及而且我們要大力的趕上 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
23748.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
23770.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
那現在法務部也透過打詐釋法再透過跟司法院要將新釋法當中尚有不及之處再把它加強包括刑度包括整個刑法的太陽等等還有包括陳紹共犯等等都把它結合在一起這個是我們目前在努力的我知道努力的方向還不夠深遠但是我們都把方向給找出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
23771.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
23799.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
所以院長就像我講的剛聽你這一段就如同我講的我相信行政院非常努力一定要把打詐這一塊做出成效給國人看但是看起來就是這些詐騙集團他們有利可圖所以他們就窮盡一些方法甚至說他們只要人在國外然後他們把他們的一些IP都移到國外去會造成我們很多在追查犯罪的時候會產生斷點這件事情就很麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
23800.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
23817.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
所以我們現在看到的就是說我們還是在過去我們打詐可能都比較站在加害人就是要詐騙的人我覺得我們有時候要轉一下轉著就說我們要回到被害人到底被害人為什麼被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
23818.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
23839.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
所以從第一步 第一步是什麼就是他怎麼接觸到詐騙的人那現在看起來詐騙的人最常用的就是透過社群媒體包括我們的臉書包括IG啦 翠啦甚至後來就把他們引誘到一個LINE的一個群組裡面結果這個群組裡面全部都是在騙他的他自己不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
23840.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
23860.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
他就陷入了一個被詐騙然後投資詐騙往往越投資越多而且他的方式以前是直接叫你投資他直接誘使你投資甚至他早期還跟你一點矛頭小弟現在可能是先送你一個東西送你一本書 送你一個什麼讓你引誘你你進來之後慢慢很多人在旁邊圍攻你讓你以為這個群 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
23862.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
23883.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
這個環境裡面是大家都在投資這個正常的行為結果只有你一個是被害人其他都是假的所以我在這個情境之下我想要請教部長或者是我們速發部就是說在這種情境之下假如我們最常用的我覺得以前最常用的一個辦案技巧就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
23884.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
23902.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
有一點叫做這個叫釣魚就是說我事實上跳進去我就是要我就是要破獲這樣的一個集團但是我進去後比如我進入這樣一個LINE的一個群組後我有辦法因為在這個群組裡面然後把他們後面整批人揪出來嗎依現在的科技我們做得到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
23905.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
23925.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
謝謝那個委員我想我們現在檢警調對這一種的包括電信網路的一個擦漆像這一種的在網路上我們有那個警察巡我們有巡邏我們有那個各大系統就負責是看來一個社群網站社群的一個軟體媒體我們都有在做一個巡邏都沒有分工 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
23926.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
23940.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
有巡邏但是我們如果已經巡邏到我們已經進入了好我們先看到一個假的臉書的一個訊息讓我們接觸到然後他就跟我們開始我們跟他對話對話完他叫我們加入進入這個LINE的一個群組 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
23941.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
23967.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
我都進去了 那我抓得到他嗎我想這個每個個案都不同其實從這個網路上我們可以試著去抓得到我也知道這個成功率不是那麼大這很辛苦我們這部分最好是用即時的一個下架我想這部分整個一個速發部這部分會跟社群軟體的一個公司他們業者再做一個下架的通知部長 下架是一塊事實上我也就是要問速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
23968.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
23992.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
那既然就是有這樣的一個群組那既然這個群組他一定有一個他的末端那這個末端的人我們沒辦法掌握嗎報告委員通常做法是這樣我們最好是希望在源頭就在他在廣告登出來的時候這個詐騙廣告我們就能夠發現把它下架所以不要讓民眾進入這個詐騙廣告再進入私人群組因為一旦進入私人群組要抓就比較困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
23993.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
24018.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
所以在源頭我們用AI用網路詐騙通報查詢網去發現詐騙廣告目前我們用這種方式已經使得投資詐騙廣告下降了九成九也就是說過去一個月七萬八千多件現在剩下七百多件OK 但是速發部我想我要跟部長說的就是說你請他下架但是民眾是覺得說既然有源頭為什麼抓不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
24019.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
24041.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
跟委員報告 他有下單啊 他有去買廣告啊我想這個是全方位的 委員關心的這是一個查緝的一個方向那我想很多的切入口 包括我們洗錢的那一部分譬如說我們現在臺灣檢署 各地檢署我們現在也跟那個金融機構金融去簽MOU那這個簽MOU就是從那個可疑帳戶的資金往來 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
24042.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
24066.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
去勾肌用大數據AI的分析去勾肌出來所以我們最近有謝文給我今天這個機會講就譬如說台北地球有一個斬金專案也就是一個郵局提供的這個可疑帳戶而破獲了一個非常龐大的一個詐團那這個被害人高達五千多個那這個被騙金高達一百五十幾億那這個壓了五十幾個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
24068.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
24081.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
所以這一件就有一個非常的棒的另外台中地檢也有透過土地營養提供的可依帳戶的這些來勾結出來的用帳戶來抓來勾結這件事很重要這個是MOU的對 部長因為我時間有限我有設定幾個問題所以我沒辦法給你我們就知道說從 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
24087.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
24111.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
這個社群媒體來揪出詐團這是一個方式第二個就是說因為事實上今天好多委員都有去講到我們訂了這個詐欺犯罪的一個防治條例47條你只要繳交犯罪所得的話你可以減薪執行那過去就變得說很多法院他們在認定上他們認為繳交犯罪所得是以他的報酬 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
24113.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
24141.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
那我舉一個例子啦 我現在就舉一個例子假如有詐騙集團騙了對我騙了一千萬我被詐騙集團騙了一千萬那車手勒就是我拿 但是我被騙一千萬是好幾次其中一個車手其中一個車手從我這裡經手了一百萬我一百萬給他那這個車手跟詐團拿到了十萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
24143.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
24160.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
我想請教部長部長這讓你回答那這一個車手他是要繳交10萬塊100萬還是1000萬他就可以試用47條所以這個是非常不合理所以這次那個最高法院那個刑事大法院他是採用個人的報酬說就10萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
24161.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
24180.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
事實上他被騙的金額那個被害人被騙的說明就是一千萬甚至是一億所以我們認為是要以被害人的損害而說交出的部長我看起來最高法院大法庭還是這樣過去的法官他就用十萬塊少數幾個他是用少數的他是用十萬塊這個大法庭是把他拉到了一百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
24181.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
24202.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
就是以這個車手他經手的大法庭是少數說是個人報酬說個人報酬是十萬塊有的法官是會用一百萬有的法官會用一百萬就是以這個車手實際處理的所以我們最近有提出修法我們認為還是要站在被害人的觀點他的損失是一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
24203.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
24214.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
他的損失是1000萬所以他應該要負責這1000萬來換取他的減刑但是我覺得這個就是會卡在說這個車手到底實際上支出了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
24217.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
24241.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
車手實際獲得什麼所以我在講這個就是說我們要站在被害人的觀點去思考這件事情所以我在舉很多個案很多個案的一個產生因為我遇到了很多來跟我說曾經他遇到詐騙警察我請他去警察提告他也去提告了他就是真的去警局提告了過了兩個月後他接到一個不起訴書 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
24243.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
24260.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
人非常的沮喪說我被詐騙我去提告去提告誰去提告那個假帳號的提供人結果後來是不起訴書我把這個不起訴書列出列出來了他不起訴的原因是什麼他說因為你告這個詐騙這個帳號的提供人他這個帳號騙了好幾個人前面的人已經告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
24271.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
24289.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
前面的人 前面被害者已經告了你在後面告前面那部分已經告了也判完了所以你跟他是一個行為他是同一個提供帳號的行為所以你後面去告你就變成拿到不起訴書部長你覺得這件事合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
24291.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
24312.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
這是洗錢方式吧他那個提供的那個165提供的那個現在是提供那個是在21條吧應該是在洗錢法21條的一個事情最近一個修法就是要提供三次最早的時候現在修法就是要因為現在其實沒有修法之前因為地檢署可能大部分檢察官就是認為他這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
24315.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
24340.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
沒辦法證明他直接的故意所以會不起訴書書員如果其實檢察官檢察官是跟他說因為是同一行為啦因為他就一個提供賬號行為嘛然後有十個人受騙嘛那前面的部分因為九個人有去提告已經判完了他也已經在關了所以你是後面去告的人你是後面去告的人所以你這個已經被前面已經判完了你後面去告他就給你一個不起訴書那這件事影響到了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
24341.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
24361.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
這件事還有後續因為我就跟他說好 沒關係你至少要告民事對 那個民事是有184的你至少要告民事就侵權行為嘛你至少民事你要取得對他的一個債權憑證未來你還是可以把追索回來嘛結果他就去適用了詐欺犯罪第54條第54條說如果你因為詐欺你請求損害賠償的時候你可以暫免繳償判費 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
24366.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
24393.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
結果法院呢 這個法院的一個民事裁定說 抱歉 因為你之前那一份是不起訴書所以你不是用免繳裁判費 部長你會覺得這樣聽聽就 哇 這很不準怎麼會這樣 一個被詐騙的被害人 他去尋求他的司法救濟的時候 層層受阻啦很不準所以部長 報告委員 行政院實在不應該對個案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
24395.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
24418.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
起訴不起訴或判決來多加揣測的意見但是我是希望這樣的意見能夠讓司法院能夠理解怎麼樣幫助行政院來完成打詐行為司法院應該要再退一把手因為我各自都把它蓋住了但是這個不是只有這一個個案是這樣的狀況的情況之下法院的統一的做法會採取這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
24419.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
24437.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
所以我們今天我覺得我們在這裡我們除了去講說現在台灣打詐的問題很嚴重我覺得這樣是不夠的因為我們這裡代表立法院你們是行政機關我們應該要立更多法律出來對這個打詐有實際的一個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
24438.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
24464.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
這是我們的責任我現在再講一個例子以被害人來出發的話我們看現在有很多破獲的說包括第三方支付他可能涉及幫打詐洗錢最近破獲好多那也因為從第三方支付抓到金流了也知道詐騙集團的部分人是誰了抓到這些部分人了那行政機關法務部有告知這些被害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
24465.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
24482.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
告訴任何一個人說你的這個案件我抓到源頭了有告訴他們嗎沒有這就是我覺得我們做的不好的地方應該要告訴他們因為他們之後還有來民事求償的這個權利我們至少這一塊既然他都跟我們來提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
24503.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
24505.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
好 謝謝蔡議員的質詢 謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
24523.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
24540.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
謝謝 接下來我們請賴世寶委員執行 李昆成委員請準備謝謝主席 韓院長 我們有請我們的卓院長以及內政部的部長麻煩請卓院長內政部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
24552.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
24579.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
代委好院長好 兩位長官好我不知道你今天的報告這個是哪一位的幕僚幫你寫的這個報告叫做睜眼說瞎話 你知道吧你看到第四頁我也接了一段你們寫了說損失金額每月減少五億元但是從今年的二月 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
24580.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
24605.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
3月4月一路攀升一路攀升你怎麼好小意思講說每月減少5億這是睜眼說瞎話我們也要你回答你先不要回答不要急那麼我們來看按照這個來推估不是推估事實上是如此一年我們的被詐騙的金額高達1000億高達1000億是多我為了這個事情開過兩次公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
24607.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
24630.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
我幾乎我的辦公室啊幾乎每個禮拜一定有好幾件被炸的有老師 退休的老師有退休的公務員來一邊講一邊哭啊哎呀我這個開公聽會的時候找那個當事人來他講講就哭起來了七十幾歲他的所有的積蓄一千萬都沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
24630.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
24657.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
都不去啊然後呢 那時候我找了內政部的警政署相關的長官來那個長官非常的認真跟他說這個報告這個老師你這個錢大概要不回來了欸 多殘酷啊我們找長官來欸警政署長官來就告訴他沒有希望 為什麼平均如果真的能破 不一定能破能破大概一年拿回來多少 10% |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
24660.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
24670.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
拿回來這是最樂觀的最樂觀的就是一年能夠破案因為他立案就要一個月到三個月的時間然後再開始調查什麼之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
24673.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
24695.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
真的 台灣很可憐的啦我們的打詐金額 預算越變越多打詐指揮中心 人員也都給你們愛人給你們 愛錢給你們結果我們的結果是這樣就是每一次人家跟我講的時候我心裡都好難過 我說我能做什麼我跟立法委能做什麼好了 最近又看到一個 也是要跟我們澄清 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
24697.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
24722.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
錢沒有很多 可是我心裡也很痛他說 通知他 你電費少交了請你補49塊錢 台幣49他就點進去 49 進去以後就進去了好了 扣款扣多少 38000這是千真萬確的事實我的鄉民服務案 如果你要我都可以給你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
24724.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
24749.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
怎麼會這個樣子他叫我說我少交了四十幾塊錢結果一扣扣三萬八這就是詐騙集團這就是我們各自全部都洩露院長你知道嗎台灣的我們所有的人包括你我在內包括韓院長包括所有的部委首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
24750.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
24775.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
每一個人的個資通通在網上可以被交易總共多少錢你知道嗎全台灣2300萬人金額多少錢2300萬人的個資賣5000塊美金賣5000塊美金這是我們目前的狀況目前的狀況是這個樣子我們裡面有寫到院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
24777.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
24800.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
你們今天說的這本報告多少賭多少賭我們也不要在這裡口舌啦我當然我知道你回答很多你也不滿意 這個態度對可是我們希望要見其理及啦針對問題 我們來看比較客觀給你打分數 check GPT他幫你打分數啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
24802.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
24828.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
落實性給你5分啦25分裡面給5分啦等於100分的話就是給多少?給20分而已可衡量性10分而已創新性15分條理完整啦作文比賽你們25分得滿分 你看到?你這切的GPT對你不錯欸說你很好作文你很好作文欸但是你看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
24829.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
24842.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
我告訴委員 我不會以60分為滿意我需要更高 我們要努力我不會以60分為滿意 我要更高我要更高 不會以60分為滿意我希望我們一起努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
24845.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
24869.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
好 這個兩位長官你們真的我是在第一線的我第一線的明帶這種案子實在太多了幾乎每個禮拜都有有時候這個禮拜多一點有時候這個禮拜少一點幾乎都有 心裡很痛啊因為來的幾乎都是退休的幾乎都是退休的他說 有的參加投資投資 現在投資最多 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
24870.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
24894.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
都跟一件事情有關係 洩露個資來 我們來看我們那個書發部的長官也可以一起來這是審計部的報告 請看這個page審計部的報告我們打詐是不是應該有一個統一的窗口你現在看喔書發部編113年編了網路詐騙通報查詢網 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
24901.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
24907.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
通報查詢網設計一個APP系統開發跟維護維運的預算1350萬114年平台維運5800多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
24917.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
24934.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
我們165大家都知道啊 打電話詐騙了165打165165這個警政署這邊編了110萬可是呢 舉報的功能反詐騙平台編了1219萬老實講 這兩個是重組的報告委員你聽不聽得懂 不要急 不要急部長是說這數據有誤5月15號 蘇華部的正式上線結果通報只有幾筆你知道嗎 4000筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
24945.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
24951.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
4000筆 不止 不止 絕對不止我就查了 這個是審計部的報告審計部的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
24954.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
24977.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
我以上的資料都是審計部的審計部跟你查的 這很有公信力的什麼都不知 你不能夠以你的那種感覺來 我就請教院長 索巴部的黃部長先不要讓你講話來 院長你這個能不能整合一下能不能整合一下 你不要 這兩個都一樣啊有什麼不一樣 重複的重複啊 我預算所以錢這樣子亂花一通 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
24979.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
24981.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
我們今年才上線 審計部應該沒有最新的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
25002.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
25010.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
審計部的資料就114年這是我家進來的113年是審計部的資料114年是我的那審計部就是審計部的重點所以這兩個應該要結合我就告訴你這一點審計部的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
25016.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
25033.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
報告委員我們現在下架的數目超過3萬就是說下架的數目所以這個數字是有嚴重錯誤他原來一上去5月15號我現在跟你講5月15號我不是講現在我跟你講5月15號5月15號我要跟你強調就是現在老實講老百姓習慣165老百姓習慣165 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
25037.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
25046.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
所以我覺得這次是假的我們蘇華部的黃部長請你回去我們再請衛福部的長官時間請暫停一下請衛福部備詢邱部長內政部的劉部長要可以先請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
25070.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
25096.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
今天啦我特別講一個東西啊資料外洩我們有民安有網暗網有社群通訊軟體然後呢馬街醫院二零二五年的今年的三月他的資料外洩那時候我就去問給你們喔給你們喔給衛福部喔立法委員賴司法辦公室去問給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
25097.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
25125.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
你們給我回答的是什麼你們給我回答的是說這是暗網 這不是暗網 這是明網這是明網 這不是暗網然後今天最新的 今天剛出來的台灣阿鼻喉頭頸外科醫學會各自全部結論院長 你知道吧我們每一個人 很多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
25126.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
25150.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
以我為例 我就常常接到這個電話也不是電話 簡訊簡訊就告訴我什麼地方可以投資你要投資嗎 什麼投資平台加入什麼社 什麼投資社好了 那我就想 他怎麼有我的電話他怎麼有我的電話我隨便一問 每一個人都有類似這樣的遭遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
25151.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
25174.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
我們的個資洩漏的非常的嚴重所以今天來講的話可以這麼講我今天要打砸怎麼樣防止個資的外洩是非常重要的我剛才一開始我就講了我們五千塊美金可以把台灣所有每一個人的個資都拿到這個是昨天晚上我看到的資料那個邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
25177.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
25192.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
這個B喉外科醫學會這裡面就是每一個大醫生他的姓名 他的電話 他的住址通在裡面請部長回答一下 說明一下好 包委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
25193.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
25221.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
從今年3月我們開始發現醫院有相關的資安的一個資料的一個外線以後我們衛福部的資訊是馬上就召集我們所有的關鍵就是也就是急重症的醫院就是那個關鍵的醫院大概有二三十家我們就馬上來整個資安的一個部的一個檢視然後給他們一個SOP那除了這樣以後所以他們以後就 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
25222.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
25247.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
不會再發生這種情況那另外因為這樣的SOP台灣的醫院有幾百家所以也後來比較小型的醫院也希望他們也能夠有這樣的一個SOP所以我們也都布置下去了今天是鎖定衛福部鎖管的好多醫院都各自外洩的不會不會 現在都已經我們都已經有給他們SOP新光也有啊 對不對沒有我現在問你喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
25249.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
25264.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
那醫學會來講會比較因為醫學會還沒有列管到我們的這個好像醫療機構一樣他只是會員的資料不是病人的資料所以這個部分我們會來了解請問你對於現在醫院的治安有沒有做一些輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
25270.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
25298.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
對醫院的治安我們有進行輔導當然我們從三月以後就我們已經給非常嚴格的用最高規格的來對三十家這種大型的醫院我們已經給他最嚴格的治安的指導然後接下來又把這個SOP做法給所有的醫院去遵照因為有些醫院沒辦法有那麼多資源來建造來建構這樣的一個治安網你要指導怎麼樣去 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
25299.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
25322.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
我有一句話 我們對醫院 對銀行 對電信公司 對護證所我們都展開這樣的 因為掌握了這個趨勢了各自的保護 針對這幾個機關你們要不要要求醫院設資安長這樣的一個作法 我想各個醫院都一定有資安的一個體系 一個主任銀行有資安長 但是醫院沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
25327.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
25353.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
我們公立的各部會以及我們機關我們都設有資安長醫院沒有資安長如果沒有的話我們會請他能夠補上因為資安長確實在保護個資上面是需要的一定有資訊室主任但是資安長他的一個設立跟定位我們趕快來研議看看能不能配合整個政府的組織來一同步那個蘇華部的長官可以再一起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
25355.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
25381.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
這個最後一小題麻煩再請速發部備選那個邱部長可以請回謝謝我們都知道現在的詐騙變成是跨國性的那麼連結國際打擊假帳號我們跟Meta或者Google Line合作阻斷詐騙的廣告具體的規範跟KPI有沒有來請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
25381.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
25400.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
自從炸房條例通過之後我們是定期密集的跟這四大平台網路廣告平台商有開會後來我們要求兩個基本要做到一個就是實名制一個就是他們收到所謂的下架的公文要在24小時內廣告下架這個他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
25401.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
25416.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
我們就執行段時間以後發現Meta沒有做到所以我們已經罰過他兩次1600萬什麼時候可以全部做到我們現在就邀請現在就要全部做到但是現在沒有全部做到現在我們就是定期在查驗什麼時候可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
25419.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
25444.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
他們只要沒有做到我們馬上開罰所以現在我們還在檢查所以目前是這樣子現在其實對於詐騙的廣告其實可以RPG不是可以封嗎RPG是一頁式網站一頁式網站就是說如果是一頁式網站我們如果查到的話我們會進行所謂RPG把它遮蔽但是對Facebook |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
25445.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
25465.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
對Google這種公司你不可能把它全部遮蔽所以你只能要求它下架某些有問題的廣告所以對這次公司我們做法是用發文去要求它下降有問題的網頁 有問題的廣告這是我們目前的目的好 謝謝賴世保委員的資訊謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長貝馨 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
25478.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
25500.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
好 接下來我們請李坤澄委員請質詢楊瓊英委員請準備謝謝主席 我們請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
25510.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
25528.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
林委員好院長好 辛苦了今天早上也聽到院長在講就是說你也認為說這個國人也不一定會滿意打炸的進度派你給政府多一點時間這是左院長早上的反應其實我在民間也有聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
25529.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
25552.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
大家對於說這個打詐雖然政府有在努力在做但是還是有一些疑慮就民間的一些反應我來跟部長來請教一下第一個 為什麼打詐會越來越多呢第二個 被騙的人為什麼都被判那麼輕呢第三個 被詐騙的錢能不能追回來大概這三項能不能請院長先簡短的答覆一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
25553.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
25581.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
因為對詐騙集團來講第一個他有利可圖他後面一定是一個幫派一個組織所以是大規模的在從事另外手法不斷的翻新再來就跟境外的合作經常把他的基地台等等可是我們有打詐釋法了為什麼會派的還是派那麼近對境外的部分我們還要跨境的合作雖然有一些合作但是我想速度跟這個數目上遠遠不及這個才是越來 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
25582.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
25598.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
打詐的這個集團越來越猖狂的一個原因那怎麼辦我們法令也給行政院也送來立法院也通過了所以我們說的我們希望從市詐開始讓人民知道說什麼是有陷阱的什麼是你不應該加入的用這個方式來阻絕源頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
25599.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
25613.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
再來就是把從市帳 房帳 主帳 整帳各方面一路的下來如果只是用抓的 抓不勝抓抓當然是最後端了啦我先請教一下這一個院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
25614.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
25639.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
第一個就是有關165 165很辛苦早上也有同仁有問過就是說165現在有50名的工作人員然後平均每一天要接到1200通到1500通的電話請教一下院長在它法制化之前能不能優化補它的人力讓我們最前線的我們同仁不用這麼的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
25640.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
25663.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
謝謝李委員關心第一線工作人員確實值得需要鼓勵我多次去到165中心看他們在接電話第一個要非常有耐心第一個要非常極致的反映出對方來的詢問問題能夠給他解答第三個要能夠告訴他後續應該有些什麼救濟的行為對一個專業訓練來看是非常非常現在是50門50個嗎47 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
25667.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
25683.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
47 人力夠不夠我想以現在的量來講 他們都很辛苦還是會按照 他們是從哪邊調過來的寶一 寶一調過來的我們去的時候還希望他增加外語的人力跟語言能力 短時間這人力能不能增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
25684.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
25709.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
人力當然是可以增加但是我想李委員可能會希望我們能夠在科技上面譬如說我們要導入AI的系統或者導入這個圈存電子化或者是系統性的上限而不是像以前好像街市化一通一通填寫這樣子這樣可以減輕第一線同仁的負擔等於優化對 優化這個優化在科技面上面我們已經開始補充人力跟優化這個能不能做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
25710.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
25730.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
當然沒有問題 但是還有一個就是讓它法制化那有沒有一個期程短期間我們先補充人力先優化長時間法制化同時我們從7月開始的時候也會提供獎金按照他們的程度提供2000到1萬元預計短期要補到多少人你們認為現在他們輪調是沒有太大問題太辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
25735.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
25749.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
委員一再來提醒說因為每一次接電話都耗盡很多的心神而且心理的壓力也會很大所以今天早上委員在提醒的時候就是說要給他們做一些心理諮商的協助跟支持這一點我們已經馬上交辦了沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
25750.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
25775.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
我也認為院長這邊能力我覺得短時間在增加這47名可以說是精英他們這樣子每天24小時也不斷電在服務我認為說第一個當然就是身心雙方我們要稍微注意一下第二個就是說能夠增加能力就增加能力讓他們不至於這麼的疲憊好不好謝謝委員關心我請內政部就短期的委員所講的短期的部分你訂一個計畫我們來進行核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
25777.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
25796.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
好 那再請教一下這個院長高齡詐騙的問題因為我們現在進入高齡化了那部長可以先請問進入這個高齡化了那大家也知道說現在高齡化的長者他們可能現在有錢也有錢但是這也容易成為詐騙集團他所覬覦的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
25797.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
25816.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
其實在日本他們其實有在去年有公告一個保護國民免受詐騙的綜合對策他其實有針對這個是高齡化的比如說推動跟金融機構合作針對長期未使用ATM轉帳功能的高齡客戶然後就是限制他的金額或是說銀髮族家用電話安裝防騷擾的裝備或是說我們能不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
25824.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
25847.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
讓長者在領錢的時候稍微增加他的不方便性因為我知道說在這個比如說在保單這方面就是說他們有設計就是說那你如果是長者要來解約這個保單然後他們就問說那為什麼要解約甚至有多一個人就是說你必須要家裡的其他的人知道這件事情而且同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
25848.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
25872.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
這個長者才能去把保單做解約的過程我就想說我們對於高齡的長者這部分能不能多一些關懷然後多一些在法令上面給予他們協助因為其實在今年4月的時候我就跟林志傑教授一起來談到說有關於高齡財務風險管理不足的這部分這部分 彭主委你要先回應一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
25873.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
25898.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
跟委員說明一下有關高齡剛才講說我們對於保單有解約金的這些註記的部分因為牽涉到法律我們已經請幾家公司他們已經開始跟客戶在做這個示範了在做這個我想就是高齡者他要解約必須要其他家人通知就是你要如果是要解除這個的話要通知這個就跟我們那個比如說我們的那個土地啊房屋要過戶那個是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
25899.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
25921.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
那另外剛才講說對於ATM異常的部分我們已經納入全面的管控就是假設這個很久沒有領那我說有沒有特別針對長者因為我是在講說高齡化這部分高齡的風險其實我們對高齡化的這一部分一些的保護我們就是我們不是歧視但是我們需要多一些關心跟照顧這個就是我們現在正在做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
25924.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
25944.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
這樣有在做嗎 有你的方案是什麼 我怎麼不知道就剛才講 因為早上也有人問有關ATM管控的部分細節我不方便在這邊說但是我們已經針對各種異常的現象做一個全盤式的我覺得像日本那個我剛提到這個你們可以做一些參考就是說讓高齡者 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
25945.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
25963.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
他們要在做這個不管是提款或是說解約這方面的話多增加一些他的家人能夠關心他這件事情所以是我們現在在鼓勵他們往這個方向來走好 謝謝那我再請教一下院長早上結果這個同仁有問到 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
25964.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
25993.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
有一個是自稱是詐騙集團的車手然後他假設之後他高調分享他的詐騙還說自己的判決書可以當履歷表早上有播這個影片我聽政部長也說好像要去抓還是劉部長這個其實網路上都找得到他的編號 他的名字他司法判決書都找得到我不曉得說現在掌握的情況怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
25994.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
26005.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
報告委員我來補充一下好嗎這位姓廖現在已經被移送到雲林地檢署現在今天嗎13號然後他在8月9號的時候已經有將這個影片下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
26011.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
26026.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
所以現在在民眾流傳的部分應該不是是其他的部分這個在流傳的部分就之前拍的就對了他現在你說他現在已經對 那這位廖姓詐欺嫌犯的我是覺得囂張因為他總共被移送28次 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
26028.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
26054.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
這個就是問題為什麼可以移送到28次然後他繼續出來就是我要凸顯一下這幾個問題第一個對年輕人來講他覺得詐騙不是丟臉的事情他可以甚至拿來炫耀第二個剛才我提到的判得很輕因為他投資報酬率很高所以我們要修法我們防詐條例要修法包括禁車條款可能要放到裡面會比較好第三個就是說詐騙的金額高但是和解的金額很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
26056.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
26081.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
合解性很低啊然後輕易就能夠假釋啊那就是法令上不足的問題啊對 所以我們詐欺犯罪危害條例一定要修那現在其實在貴院的內政委員會其實也是在修法的這個研議當中那還包含這個法務部啊早上我也聽到這一個同仁有在提到啊現在就是說這一個你只要願意去跟受害者和解 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
26082.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
26101.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
那和解的金額不是你詐騙的金額啊是你我自己拿到了這個金額啊那結果就用這個金額去做和解了也都行得通耶那我們這部分是不是我們盡快來做這個修法那不然這樣子的話那對於這些詐騙集團來講代價太低了啊那對受害者來講 情何以堪啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
26101.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
26120.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
我了解的部分是法務部已經跟司法院他們在研議當中看怎麼樣從法治上面來解決這方面的問題跟委員報告法務部已經提出修正草案限定送行政院在審查中了那要徹底解決這個問題因為我們是有覺得這個是很不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
26121.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
26145.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
這個非常的不合理因為當初立法的時候本來就是採全部的損害而說但是後來實際運作司法院的法院的作業他是採個人報酬說後來他是有不同有少數的採全部的損害說這個就是我相信很多立委也都有提案那現在就是我們等院版等院版看何時送來立法院院版就代表這個行政院的一個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
26148.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
26175.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
他這部分在審查現在也在開審討會議請司法院來表示意見我想儘速的審完畢就送立法院來審議我覺得這個太誇張了光從早上大家在談的這個例子就凸顯了好幾個問題就大家覺得說你詐騙那幹部長你提到說他被抓了26次那26次又出來那為什麼大家會覺得說我回到我之前所講的為什麼現在都判得那麼輕 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
26178.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
26193.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
不過我們檢察官起訴的時候起訴的第一個起訴可能量刑就不重那結果到法官那邊判決法官跟委員報告那這部分的確是有量刑的的確是都大部分集中在一年到兩年之間那是外界的反應最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
26195.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
26210.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
現在我們有一個一個具體球型50條 炸白條50條具體球型我們在高檢測有一個球型的標準給檢考做一個參考我想他們可以來因為現在剛開始在做而已我想大概一定時間效果會出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
26211.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
26229.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
跟委員報告因為很多類似這樣的一個法律的修法法都必須跟司法院進行討論那我們也發現到當中無論是行度或者是速度以及他這個修法的過程的程序都有問題所以我已經拉高到由雙方的秘書長來進行交涉希望能夠把這個時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
26231.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
26249.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
趕快一點現在就是大概去年是這個時候這個打砸專法通過了現在一年其實就是說包含兩位部長院長都有提到說我們相關的法令這一年之後的確有許多要去做修改的譬如說第一個加重我們的犯罪的刑罰第二個強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
26251.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
26264.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
犯罪的被害的補償第三個研議犯罪禁捨的管制我覺得說一年這樣子下來之後大家發現說有這一些不足的地方我們也希望說行政院趕快來補這個漏洞好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
26265.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
26286.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
好的 我們會請司法院一起配合我們會盡快來處理好 那這個你剛才提到這個市詐的部分我跟院長提供一個數字就是說現在在青少年的部分就是在19歲以下我們這個市詐欺的嫌疑犯人數每年都增加從111 112到113每年都增加然後這個車手 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
26293.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
26322.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
擔任這個車手是在12歲到17歲這個佔車手的比例高達六成就是說年輕人現在就是被抓起來當作車手裡面的大概有六成是屬於青少年的這是一個非常嚴重的問題這部分怎麼去做處理院長少年事件的處理我們跟司法院也在進行溝通當中還有教育部我覺得教育部也要來做處理就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
26323.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
26341.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
第一個大家覺得說車手第一個就是量刑青現在很多詐騙集團也是找年輕人去當車手然後量刑青很容易就被假釋所以都是當年輕人用車手所以才會有部長你講提到說被抓了二十幾次然後就出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
26342.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
26360.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
這麼高調的拍影片這是一個問題我們在年輕人12歲到17歲裡面車手的嫌疑犯裡面竟然有六成都是年輕人然後有關煮炸的這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
26363.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
26387.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
主帳 張款的這一個流項面現在就是說我們對於警示金融帳戶剩餘款項的返還這方面的速度我們是不是可以再加快一點因為各個案子它有不同的情節太陽所以它沒有辦法訂出一個一定的標準我們現在平均大概是多少時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
26388.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
26414.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
這個現在很難講一個平均的數字這個也是要請金管會有的會幾日就可以出 有的會比較長的時間要請金管會來研議這個警示金融帳戶剩餘款項的返還的進進作為我時間有限 最後再請教一下這個是應該是跟NCC有關的就是說有關於清查非國籍預付卡手機門號的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
26418.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
26446.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
目前來看這個是比較應該是說到幾年級為止大概清查才清查兩百二十五萬才清查了一萬多這個我請院長要去推一下因為他們是說今年八月應該是今年年底會去清查一千百多萬我們請院長來介紹一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
26448.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
26474.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
好謝謝好謝謝李坤城委員的質詢謝謝主委院長相關部會首長備詢謝謝接下來我們楊瓊英委員質詢完畢之後我們會休息10分鐘休息完畢請林月琴委員準備我們接下來請楊瓊英委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
26484.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
26489.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
謝謝院會主席楊全雲發言首先來邀請卓院長再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
26501.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
26524.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
根據官方打炸儀表板的統計我們在114年7月份的時候查獲的炸團有228團 1826人比6月份有少了4團 少了125人但是我們認為成效是有限的查購步伐的部分所得是4億 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
26525.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
26544.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
多將近5億當然比6月份少了一點點少了一成左右所以我們認為到目前為止我們的攬主金額雖然有到13億但是跟全國詐騙財損的部分85億以上還是差距很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
26545.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
26552.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
尤其我們從打詐儀錶板的上面來看歷史112年是89億 他是37,823件113年是502億 他的案件是122,805件 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
26563.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
26582.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
那114年今年的1月到7月份呢他總共有10萬件105310件他的金額是565億換句話說今年的上半年就等於是去年在打仗儀表板上面還更多一整年都更多的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
26583.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
26601.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
所以在這樣的情況之下縱使行政院相關單位告訴我們說是計算方式不一樣但是這個是政府公告的打造儀表版所以本席要再請教七月份裡頭我們看到到底是為什麼會有這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
26602.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
26627.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
社会现象产生7月份涉及网络媒体诈骗的我们当然也努力下架了很多但是诈骗的内容它仍旧在平台里头层出不穷换句话说显示政府你在行动方面我们还有很大的讨论空间也就是还没有有效的可以去压制这些的犯罪虚拟货币 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
26629.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
26645.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
這一個必傷的一個交易網路平台跟通訊軟體他認就是三不管地帶這三方如果沒有有效的來做管理那麼我們打架國家隊呢當然這個成績是得不到民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
26645.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
26668.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
的一個信任的所以本席首先提出這樣子的一個背景背景給你也就是請教打詐國家隊的運作了將近一年那麼我們為什麼案件跟金額他是不減反增那麼跨境詐騙外交的跟司法的合作我們有什麼精進的方案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
26669.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
26687.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
我們剛剛說所謂統計數字的不同是從去年的8月之前跟8月之後依照它發生我們採取的太陽不同以前是以一個犯罪行為人一個案件來處理後來我們改變是一個犯罪行為人 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
26688.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
26709.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
騙了十個人就會有十個案件這樣的方式來處理所以數量會有所改變但是本席告訴跟卓院長分享你即使把一件或者是一件拆成十件這些的數字實際上我們民眾對於詐騙非常的恐慌所以我們討論這個數字是沒有意義的我們要聽到方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
26709.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
26736.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
跟聽到您的經濟我有提到說這是我們內控上一個考核的機制那剛剛你有說到網路平台啦通訊軟體啦以及這個虛擬貨幣我們在這個數位的網路平台上面現在我們已經要求這四大的平台Meta、IG、Google還有YouTube現在再加上Trade五個平台Trade在九月份也會要求它落地管理實名制這樣會有助於我們對於九月份是下個月嗎對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
26738.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
26766.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
其他都有了 全面四個都有了就是TRADE這個部分會在九月份要求他也要照我們新的打炸心法裡面所規定要在這裡落地失明 耐耐的時間請TRADE要在九月份的時候也要強制執行制他必須接受我們的管制那麼另外就是虛擬貨幣這個我們現在當然他的成效比較不明顯因為他到底是一個很新興的一個取代一個貨幣的一個行為但是接著我們這個金管會會從 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
26768.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
26782.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
貨幣發行幣商服務幣商的這個管理讓他成為一個工會讓他納入我們工會的管理之後納入工會的管理從根源來管理 是否這個解讀正確嗎納入工會的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
26784.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
26802.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
從根本來解決我們會他成為一個工會讓他在裡面第一個是要自律第二我們用法律上來管理再請這個彭主任來做說明施保委我想剛剛有關那個虛擬資產的先跟委員說明一下我們那個專法在6月27號已經送進行政院在審議中現在已經在加緊審議中 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
26803.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
26827.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
在我們去年11月30號通過了登記制以後可以行者這部分是我們第一步的管理剛剛院長有提到我們組工會的部分我們把現在所謂的VASP就是虛擬資產業者的工會現在已經開始運作了像比如最近我們在5月的時候禁止他們限制交易請問你們這樣的方案要什麼時間可以承行因為民眾苦不堪言 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
26827.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
26854.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
其實我們現在的你們有方法給予肯定但是你要告訴我們答案你們一定有你們的KPI你什麼時候公會他可以成行我們政府可以管控去年已經成立已經開始運作像比如說在跟委員報告我們今天5月就看到現金交易的問題我們就直接把現金禁掉所以我們在這一部分我們把這個就做了很有效納管這是其中一個措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
26854.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
26865.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
接下來比如說我們對於所有的虛擬資產業者的管控我們從原來最高的26到現在的話我們大概只剩下14家因為對不合規的我們全部把它淘汰掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
26866.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
26887.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
院長您聽到你的單位主管說是非常有效的管控但是本席告訴你我們在坊間聽到的不一樣的一個方向所以本席剛剛所說的虛擬貨幣我們的幣商交易以及網路平台通訊軟體這三不管地帶你們必須要好好的去整 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
26887.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
26900.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
所以因此我要告訴你對守法合法的業者納入工會但是我們還有一些非常不守法的在網路世界數位率所以我們還要加強這個部分當然要加強這個部分當然要加強 怎麼加強呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
26902.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
26924.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
當然要加強 怎麼加強呢我們民眾苦不堪言你好好去經濟好不好也把時間點給我們好不好接下來我要告訴你因為在國家政策研究基金會裡頭給你的一個民調也就是在政府打詐司法跟青年方面44.8%的民眾是認為我們對於打擊詐騙是表示不滿的 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
26929.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
26955.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
其中還有一個更重要的因子也就是50到69歲的族群他是感受最深在這樣的情況之下本席要請教院長就是打詐的成效這個案件跟金額他是雙雙惡化所以民眾會恐慌所以本席要請教的就是說那打詐 詐團他有恃無恐 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
26956.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
26985.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
那你主謀消防法外 金流跟跨境的鏈結你沒有去把它破解那當然民眾是沒有辦法求償所以你們不斷地在宣導說所謂的市詐 賭詐 防詐 主詐 以及懲詐但到目前為止似乎它的成效是不足以去壓制這些犯罪者的行為所以在這邊本席要特別要告訴你一點也就是你跨部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
26986.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
26998.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
跨部會本來你們從打造辦公室然後改制為指揮中心從去年的8月27號你的指揮中心但是你跨部會的整合你滿意嗎院長你滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
27001.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
27023.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
他們逐步在推動是各種的事務逐步的在推動我們已經一年了人員的部分我們會適度的加強人員部分要適度加強表示你也不滿意提到剛剛法治化的問題也是我們現在在想的方式如何提升它的效率這是一年指揮中心正式成立一年之後院長你告訴我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
27024.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
27040.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
我們也民眾是苦不堪言的情況之下我們希望政府有方法能夠保護民眾所以本席具體建議跨部會的協調是失靈的因為金管會 NCC 警政 移民 外交它各自為政嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
27040.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
27060.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
他沒有共享資源沒有共享資訊所以他當然沒有辦法有一個美好的成果一個成效出來所以本席要特別請教未來在整個跨部會的一個綻合資源裡頭你要怎麼做我覺得本席希望聽到這個部分請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
27061.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
27069.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
我們現在打造指揮中心有新的指揮官他全力的在做這些內部的管控問題那麼我們的165專線將來會做更多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
27073.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
27101.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
平行的整合如果我們有一天這個165跟打炸這個把它法制化之後會更進一步符合剛剛委員所說的165法制化什麼時候要法制化我們就朝這個方向什麼時候請教院長那剛剛我已經指示內政部盡快就近期的對這些人員的一些鼓勵方面近期擬定一個方法出來那麼把它法制化的過程現在也提出一個方式我們正在審議中正在考慮當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
27101.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
27116.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
正在考慮跟審議當中 你要盡快要盡快 你有沒有你的指標預計在什麼時候可以成行我已經指示內政部 請內政部盡快來提出一個方案內政部有時間點嗎可以告訴我們民眾嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
27118.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
27134.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
我們不能讓這個空窗期這麼長啊不會 我知道大家都非常的殷切期盼所以我這個會請內政部儘速完成儘速完成所以現在沒有辦法時間告訴我們法制化必須要有一個過程所以你也把這個繳成 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
27136.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
27163.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
可以同步進行的 同步進行儘快告訴我們 儘快讓民眾可以安心我們拭目以待同時我要給院長說明打仗司法的時候包括了科技偵查當時我們不分藍綠白一起好好的幫助這個國家能夠讓人民安心所以甚至在整個科技偵查裡頭大家努力的協商終於也放在刑事訴訟法裡頭的專章裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
27165.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
27180.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
甚至本席所提案的我們的洗錢防治法15條之一之二也就是事先將這些你沒有理由的在收集這些帳號那你就要出動了我們用法讓執行者有所依歸有能夠有成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
27181.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
27197.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
這個是大家努力的能夠希望將這個成軍讓民眾可以安心可以打擊這些詐騙這是大家一起努力的我們一起努力通過這個打詐司法之後這個狀況稍微有一點穩住沒有這樣急需的變化變壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
27198.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
27227.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
院長你講這個就是你真的要加油因為打詐司法之前跟之後我告訴你我們被詐的數字金額是增加的所以你好好的去檢討這一塊接下來本席要告訴你也就是這個假釋的詐欺犯他能夠假釋出來詐騙了300萬他也約與你政府只苛扣了這個7200萬要賺錢的找我這可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
27229.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
27257.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
請教這可以嗎這剛剛說這可以嗎已經移送雲林地檢數了這可以嗎在8月10幾號已經移送這個案子已經移送雲林當然這個行為絕對不可取行為不可取而且我們要杜絕就是要對這個案子速查速辦對他已經移送院長你這樣就對了速查速辦不可以這樣子囂張啊他已經移送了還可以如此的囂張揶揄你政府絕對不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
27257.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
27281.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
挑釁我們民眾 這不行的臺灣是一個溫暖的國家是一個安定的國家不容許如此 恕神恕敗 是不是再接下來假冒公務人員我們不斷的也要宣導但是剛才本席說到的50到69歲的人是對於打仗他不安心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
27282.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
27307.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
感受最深所以因此也有詐騙的他現在已經是高度的組織化了高度的組織化所以他鎖定什麼高年齡層所以政府對於我們這樣子的高年齡層你有什麼方案比如說本席提出的你的電信異常偵測還有你的家屬通知這個都必須在第一時間我們至少還可以防堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
27308.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
27332.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
院長對於高年齡層這麼受害你認為我們有什麼經濟方案我們對於青年退休的族群以及一些特定的族群我們都把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙的退休的族群我們把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙集團去引誘的一些對象所以我們用 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
27333.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
27348.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
科技的方式來分析把這些族群找出來之後我們現在已經是用至少用一些簡訊通知告訴他們有一些詐騙的行為要他們能夠知道這個陷阱你不要輕易的進入同時也對這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
27349.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
27363.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
行為的這個潛在的被害人我們透過AI的方式 科技的方式把他們找出來給他們施予更多的視乍的教育的都有這麼多的方式但是你的成效是不髒的這表示我們的方法還有精進的 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
27365.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
27384.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
這個空間絕對是所以本席具體建議您在下個會期請提出具體的防詐騙的政策目標明確的告知各部會你們的行政你們的行動分工到底要怎麼分工必須要明確讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
27386.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
27402.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
民眾對於我們檢警調以及我們的政府他是有信任的而且本期要求必須對於我們長者的宣導必須要擴大你能夠做得到嗎好的 我們會提出一套完整的方式我請內政部來主辦跟法務部來協辦好 謝謝謝謝楊承英委員資訊謝謝卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
27411.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
27421.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
各位會員 非常感謝我們黃建豪委員 劉淑冰委員以及林月琴委員的下午專案報告一直陪同我們參與現在休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
28047.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
28071.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
我們繼續開會接下來請林月琴委員質詢黃建豪委員請準備主席麻煩我們的院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
28082.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
28110.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
林委員好委員好 委員好事實上隨著我們的科技產品跟網路都改變了我們的生活的確現在詐騙已經是全球各國都面對到的問題台灣沒有更嚴重事實上也一樣跟國際一樣像日韓一樣人數跟金額都跟我們差不多可是我很肯定的是行政團隊一步一步的很扎實的在推進把打詐的這樣子的一個提升到2.0版 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
28112.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
28130.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
那從根本的政策去著手我今天看到報告也看到非常多的一個績效在不過當然我在這邊也要提醒一點什麼呢也就是聯合國在整理各國的這樣子一個詐騙的經驗的時候他特別強調我們要關注社會中的一個特別的弱勢族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
28132.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
28144.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
像在聯合國的線上兒童跟青少年安全的計畫裡邊他就特別提到說要保護弱勢的青少年免於網路詐騙的傷害所以今天就要在這邊跟院長一起來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
28146.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
28162.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
來自市政府界也長期只在關心兒少在我們整個來看的話未成年跟青少年詐騙事實上是不太一樣的在受害的案件當中12到17事實上是受害類型以詐欺最多 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
28162.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
28190.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
的確在加害這一塊有犯罪這一塊也是涉入的詐欺案件當中有3124人10年當中涉嫌詐騙的少年已經事實上是暴增到4倍從民間的調查也顯示將近有4成的少年曾經遭遇過網路詐騙的陷阱也就是他變成是被害剛剛前面講的是加害 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
28191.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
28217.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
其中有兩層真的事實上是金錢的一些損失甚至個資外洩有三層是選擇隱忍不報院長麻煩可不可以要衛福部的部長麻煩衛福部準備選院長我今天要特別強調的是少年的詐騙議題不只是治安問題事實上是一個社福議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
28218.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
28241.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
所以在今天來院會要針對這個質詢之前我先問第一線的社工從他那邊收集到一些相關資料為什麼青少年他們會走偏除了家庭的教養因素以外很大的問題事實上是還是在經濟壓力這一塊那這些少年不只是要養活自己他還要養活的可能是他的弟弟妹妹之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
28243.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
28267.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
在學歷低沒有專業技術的狀況下詐騙工作往往會成為他們一個最快能夠賺到錢的選擇所以簡報上的文字各位可以看一下也就是說這是真實的他們的一個反應也就是家裡只剩下爸爸工作那要養他還養弟弟妹妹還有一些支出甚至阿公阿嬤都要靠這個爸爸的收入養 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
28268.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
28295.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
甚至他才15歲他根本沒辦法找到工作可是他負擔家裡經濟的時候怎麼辦呢就會是讓這些孩子呢落入到風險裡面那在左邊來看的話我們的脆弱家庭的個案管理平台目前有8.9萬的少年事實上是脆弱家庭的那其中呢12到18歲佔了四分之一那就意味著有可能他們會暴露在詐騙的引誘風險當中所以想問部長這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
28298.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
28320.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
在目前涉及到詐欺犯罪的少年當中有多少人是同時具有社會福利身份的我想那個比例我們再查一下那至於所以部長我是不是可以建議就是說相關部會是不是應該要把這個數據跨部會串聯如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
28322.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
28347.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
有詐騙的一個加害者甚至受害者那他的身份事實上是社會服務是比較能掌握所以我覺得未來事實上這個數據要串聯那針對這些少年個案後續的追蹤跟再犯比例是多少有掌握嗎我相信如果沒有比對的話事實上是很難掌握甚至有沒有針對這些個案做分析嚴厲相關的措施來避免他們再度落入到風險裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
28348.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
28377.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
我覺得衛福部可能要針對這一塊能夠著一些力院長少年接觸到詐騙集團不論是受害還是被利用成共犯他們的路徑都跟成人不一樣他們事實上是一步一步的因為接觸到網路所以是透過朋友的TRADE跟IG跟私訊甚至是限動這些一個一個拉到聊天群組裡面最後被捲入違法銷售跟詐騙的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
28378.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
28403.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
整個的供應鏈裡邊這兩張圖示上是社工提供給我的少年的一個社群的訊息內容大把鈔票 黑盤讀品在柬埔寨你可以過奢侈的生活 奢華的生活我相信這些訊息很難被定義廣告而受到限制所以院長可以麻煩我們的韓院長可以麻煩我要邀請我們的訴發部麻煩請訴發部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
28408.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
28436.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
我相信警政單位非常清楚少年進入到詐騙產業鏈的管道跟方法所以蘇發部的黃部長這邊想問因為依現行的網際網路內容管理基本規範那天去考察的時候也有問過你其中的虛實應對原則網路世界真的能有效管理這個訊息嗎部長看一下我們剛剛左邊的這張圖裡面它這個叫做類廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
28438.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
28448.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
他是在IG耶那這算是可是你們對應的法規是要有拖播廣告拖播廣告就是要有人拖播可是這上面的圖是來自IG |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
28449.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
28473.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
那就不會變成是你們可以去阻擔所以我不知道我們的速發部怎麼去應對報告委員的確目前我們是對廣告就是說這個是廣告平台對廣告的刊登者或者是拖播者去做比如說實名制是 可是這要怎麼做處理因為它根本就是我們只能講它類廣告它不需要拖播它自己就放在IG裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
28473.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
28496.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
放在限動裡面就可以讓青少年一步一步的落入到陷阱裡面了目前並不在我們關心但這個原因也是因為他這個如果是個人的這個所謂的帳號他的接觸就是他的群組的人所以部長這邊是不是應該也要去考慮我們在考慮但是這個確實那謝謝黃部長再麻煩接下來我們的內政部 部長麻煩請內政部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
28500.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
28519.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
在實體世界裡面這次我問了全台的雙北彰化嘉義花蓮縣市的社工他們都反映不只是宮廟事實上幫派組織也在吸收少年提供照顧歸屬感和跟經濟來源所以想問內政部全台社工都知道這些青少年在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
28520.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
28541.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
那對我覺得要組織黑幫跟詐騙集團來吸收少年為下線人頭的時候有哪些積極的策略部長這邊是非常謝謝林委員關心尤其是來自脆弱家庭的部分那其實我們警政署在查查這些有關於青少年犯罪尤其是牽涉到詐騙的時候大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
28541.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
28556.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
跟委員報告一下大概百分之六十呢是淪為車手跟車手頭那百分之二十左右呢是自願性的人頭賬戶也就是剛剛林委員所說的因為他可能缺錢或者是因為他對金錢的觀念比較沒有那麼的成熟 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
28557.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
28577.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
那現在就是要如何來防止這個部分我們也提出來可能要跨部會譬如說請勞動部要能夠做青少年的就業跟職業的管道那抒發部也要下架這種違法打工的訊息還有請法務部要加強公布高額的賠償案例還有教育部也要透過教育系統來告知家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
28578.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
28608.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
最近因為開學在即內政部跟教育部其實共同寫了一封信給家長請他們留意一下就是他們的學生或是孩子要注意一下詐騙上的訊息我們把相關的案例寫在信件裡面後邊再麻煩部長再把這些相關策略再提供給我們院長第一線社工跟我講說我們雖然賺不過非法的那個就是非法詐騙可是每一個青少年並不想鋌而走險去做這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
28608.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
28620.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
可是對生活有壓力的是不是我們可以給他一個更好選擇在這邊真的還是要感謝這一個多月來我們的勞動部長跟衛福部部長跟我們全台的少年服務團體一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
28621.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
28648.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
已經在做討論了我覺得要給他們正常工作而不是落入到詐騙所以最後我們大概有幾個共識也就是少年就業政策不能夠用大人的角度來思考應該要知道他們跟成人不同第二個弱勢的孩子要有專門的方案不是用成人的方案和KPI硬塞在他們身上不過真正要做這些事情要跨部會所以院長你的角色就非常的重要因為現在已經事實上是衛福部跟勞動部已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
28648.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
28674.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
要開始要去啟動可是事實上還是有法務部還是有教育部因為今天青少年還是在就學的階段可是處罰的少年他們要工作所以院長這邊是不是可以承諾說可不可以在行政院的層級由我們的院長再主動再長期列管這個弱勢境遇未成年少年的就業的一些議題能夠讓部會能夠動起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
28677.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
28699.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
單就就業的部分我想勞動部一定會做比較多的研究那我們在行政院裡面的這個社會福利的會議當中我們可以把它納出一個議題怎麼來協助這些因為有社福身份的這些青少年們如果中離生的話很多事實上是會是在衛福部可是在校生的話會是在教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
28701.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
28719.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
犯法的少年事實上是在法務部那就拜託我們的院長我們都會把他擠在一起來討論這些共同的問題謝謝院長也很感謝因為我覺得真的要大家一起來院長我自己事實上是來自社福界的背景可是不是只有少年事實上我們社福團體也常常是變成是詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
28722.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
28741.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
集團的一個對象所以為什麼只要打開社福網站社福團體的網站都會提到說你要提醒捐款小心詐騙這些字眼為什麼因為社福團體被詐騙集團利用到怕了公益竟然變成了一個詐騙的包裝所以詐騙集團就假借 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
28741.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
28756.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
要申請補助生活津貼文化資源的一些民意然後在LINE群組跟社群平台大量播放假訊息所以又使民眾交出個資然後辦理貸款甚至被盜刷這些狀況不只是傷害到民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
28757.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
28774.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
也對我們公益團體事實上是有一個重創甚至捐款人就不再捐款所以想問一下衛福部這邊有沒有面對詐騙集團利用公益跟攝服民意行騙的時候政府在防範攔截跟追查的策略上有沒有可以讓他們協助他們來做自保的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
28775.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
28797.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
好 報告委員內政部其實已經因為存在於社會各種詐騙的手法所以我們提出了新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領其中對於社府遭詐騙方面是先凍結賬戶這個由金管會再處理為了避免非營利社府團體被利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
28798.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
28815.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
被詐騙利用的確需要有相關的管理跟風險資安的風險控管來加強先導這個部分有兩個法一個是內政部的一個社團法人方面內政部來管財團法人社府團體這個由社家屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
28816.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
28841.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
我想部長是不是可以告訴我們的社福團體來做一些提醒我們會做加強先導我的時間也有限了因為今年來社福團體真的深受困擾都來我這邊做求助所以有時候會讓社福團體事實上感受到很大壓力因為為什麼有時候會影響到他們賬戶就直接被凍結所以他們就發不出薪水來給社工甚至就沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
28842.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
28861.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
繼續他們要做的一些服務就想問我們的劉世芳部長這邊就請問一下政府要如何去防範公益團體賬戶被我們的詐騙集團利用又如何要避免凍結賬戶的時候真正的公益資金不要讓它能夠凍結之後它沒辦法去運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
28862.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
28891.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
這個比較不容易第一個就是我們要確定說他這個賬戶是不是已經被詐騙集團拿去變成詐騙別人的一個賬戶那如果沒有經過後面的檢警調查查的話要解凍確實會比較困難一點但是我們還會再提醒就是說這些賬戶的擁有人也就是公益團體他是不是有看到這樣子的一個很莫名其妙的連結的時候趕快打165專線會告訴你說這是一個不法的連結不要一下子就 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
28891.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
28908.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
弄進去裡面然後被盜取我們社福團體的個資部長可不可以去研擬一下事實上之前我們有透過內政部的警政署真的有成功幫社福團體處理過這樣子我覺得是不是可以讓更多人受惠我也很感謝你們我們來辦說明會讓他們看怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
28911.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
28938.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
沒有辦法否則就會讓很多服務對象是沒辦法受到服務因為跟委員報告其實我們也會擔心說他透過這樣單一的一個公益團體的賬戶有時候會有其他的連帶的賬戶也會被圈存就是怕他可能是潛在的被詐騙戶所以這是警政署比較多超前部署的狀態但是也會有很多人覺得說這樣不太好不太方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
28939.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
28961.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
但是我們雖然阻詐了可是他們使用的人覺得說我又沒被詐騙你幹嘛把我的帳戶凍結所以我們來說明一下我想跟委員一起來努力因為很多社福團體他常年是非常正派在經營也在照顧大眾的是不是我們有可能建立一套社福團體的白名單讓他能夠安全的去運作同時未來我們在審查的過程當中要嚴謹的來審查各方來的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
28965.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
28986.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
再者萬一有誤觸到這個警視的帳戶的時候應該有一套機制讓他能夠尋正常機制迅速的能夠來解除這樣會不會造成比較少的問題因為我覺得您帶領的團隊的確在我們社福界真的給我們很多協助雖然我們提到少年就業馬上就有啟動所以今天最後還是希望行政院可不可以納入社福的視角 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
29014.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
29016.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
好 謝謝林岳清委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
29028.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
29050.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
讓院長喝水好 我們接下來請黃建豪委員質詢陳庭飛委員請準備好 謝謝韓院長那我們現在請行政院的卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
29063.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
29079.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
黃委員好院長好 院長我想一整天我想我是僅次於幾位官員聽最久的一個委員謝謝委員從早上到現在非常多大家從各個角度來關心我們這個台灣的詐騙委員一定可以給我更多更好的建議我相信應該可以 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
29080.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
29103.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
一開始我想先放一下新聞當然這個新聞片段的這個標題為什麼要特別提這個我想院長你看過這些新聞但是要跟院長報告這個只是兵山一角為什麼因為我的支持者我選區裡面也確實有這樣的家庭他們有上新聞他就是因為被詐騙家裡面受不了這樣的財務壓力他選擇結束自己的生命 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
29104.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
29124.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
那這個當然沒有上新聞那它一定會在政府的統計數據裡面它是一個聲明它只是一個數字所以今天院長在這邊我們在這邊質詢在這邊討論詐騙問題我們談了很多數字但是我今天一開始要放這些新聞讓院長知道說我們希望要怎麼樣去解決台灣的詐騙問題最核心的是我們把每一個詐騙案 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
29126.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
29147.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
它背後代表的是很多的家庭它代表的可能是每一個人的生計把它放在心裡面去面對這些事情我想我們才有辦法去用同理心去了解受害者的心情因為我想過去在整個司法體系裡面在整個大環境裡面大家認為詐騙好像是小罪 是輕罪從它的量刑 從它的判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
29148.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
29166.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
看起來過去是這樣子那當然陸陸續續包含說發生這種詐團去虐求這種詐騙集團騙的金額越來越高有這麼多人選擇這樣的方式解除自己生命所以導致說國人現在非常注重詐騙的這個問題所以我要拜託的是說一開始我們討論這是你的前提是要把詐騙它視為 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
29167.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
29193.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
非常嚴重甚至是國安等級的問題來面對這樣子我想院長幫我們行政團隊我們社會各界大家才能夠認真的去考慮這件事情好不好 院長沒錯 我們現在就把它當作很重要的治安而且可能影響到動搖整個國家經濟跟社會安定的這個層面來看它確實是一個高層次的治安甚至已經進入到一個國安的要求裡面去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
29194.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
29213.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
我想這個詐騙動搖國本我們從今年不談去年或前年因為院長你們不斷強調統計數字不一樣那我們就以新的統計方式來看待我想從詐騙的財損來看每個月這麼多錢被騙走平均一天大概兩億到三億我想整個台灣社會有這麼多錢通報被詐騙集團騙走 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
29214.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
29233.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
那真正的確實我也沒有否認說大家很辛苦有去查扣有查扣沒錯但是你看查扣的金額跟被詐騙的金額我想不成比例啊詐騙集團現在基本上是等於台灣最賺錢的行業但是我們在追溯在查扣的比例裡面我們真的效果不好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
29234.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
29249.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
那效果不好到什麼程度包含說今天所有委員都放了那支影片我本來也想放但是沒關係我節省時間我們看到那個影片那個廖什麼廖先生我問他叫什麼名字他在他的這個社群上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
29250.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
29269.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
各地都是傳這個影片這個廖先生他敢這樣做就表示說他認為詐騙是輕罪對他來講確實他很快就假釋出來了他把這個錢繳一繳他就出來了然後繼續上網去講說沒關係想要賺錢的什麼叫做尻的什麼叫做水的這些專業術語 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
29270.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
29287.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
我等會都要上網查一下但是對他們來講對這個社群來講好像是一個天生的與生俱來他就知道怎麼做的事情所以比方說這個事情這個詐騙問題已經深入到很多的年輕族群很多不屋正宴的人他認為反正不管我是真的去做詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
29288.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
29312.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
我去做什麼 做尻的 我去做水的我能夠輕輕鬆鬆的騙過這個司法系統我能夠輕輕鬆鬆的走進法院裡面可能連監獄都不用進去因為他可能半年就出來了半年就出來之後裡面還有一些是什麼勞務役他根本連進去都不用進去他根本不受任何影響更何況我們看真正的這個數據我們看那個詐我們看下一頁 刑度統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
29315.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
29340.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
真正的行動統計你可以看到說有罪人數確實你們在報告裡面提到我們在懲詐的部分今年抓到詐團2025團查獲15912人這個是我們第一線的檢警調非常辛苦的把這些人抓到了但抓到之後院長你看一下這個數據我相信法務部也給你看過很多次了這個數據有罪的人每個月每年像1萬多人2萬人這樣子抓 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
29342.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
29361.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
但實際上真的被判三年以上的0.5% 0.3% 0.4%六個月以下的20%一年以上三年以下的50%那還有拘役的所以我們花了這麼多社會資源這麼多社會成本簡簡單單這麼認真這麼多宣導抓到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
29364.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
29393.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
但送進法院判決出來即便我們修法了我要講為什麼特別提今年度因為去年通過打詐條例所以我們本來期待的我們第一時間期待就是說為什麼要修打詐條例當初修打詐條例包含修新法339條之四都是因為說過去看到這樣的數據覺得這麼多人犯罪我抓到了我們希望他至少判刑他的這量刑能夠重一點能夠懲戒比較稍微效果但是從去年修完法到今年為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
29394.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
29423.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
你看這個數據它的比例並沒有明顯的改變六個月以下還是佔兩成多一年以上一年以上三年以下的也是要佔五成真的被判到三年以上我們打詐調例希望懲戒的所謂重罪要判到三年以上的一樣只佔百分之零點多而已不佔百分之一喔到底問題出在哪裡到底是我們修法不夠嚴謹還是司法系統判決哪裡出問題還是整個法界我們整個政府機關對於詐騙沒有把他視為重罪才有導致這個結果我嚴查嚴辦的部分請部長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].start |
29424.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].end |
29443.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].text |
這部分 這份統計數字的話因為我們詐偽條例的提高刑度是在去年113年8月才開始施行案件的偵辦必須要有一定的時間我相信這些數字應該是屬於判決確定的一個案件這個是在舊法時期就是最多是用刑法339之四 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].start |
29444.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].end |
29468.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].text |
的那個型度那目前的話我們的確是有我們認為這個技能新法的成立而且這個炸團的氣焰一定要再壓制所以我們有要求檢查要具體球型那具體球型我們台高檢署也有定一個球型的一個標準給檢查做參考那我們要增加那個積壓率讓這些炸團的這些手模這些以及用窩裡環的條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].start |
29469.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].end |
29489.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].text |
來做一個鱷子這些兆團的這個棲驗我想這部分的效果會一段時間就會很明顯的看出來那我再跟委員做一個補充剛才委員有說尿性攣子這方面這個是警方已經移送給Unity監視我想Unity監視會火速的來處理這個案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].start |
29490.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].end |
29516.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].text |
來以正式聽因為這一種的話有涉及有可能會涉及到刑法153條的善或他能犯罪犯罪的這一種反悔秩序罪的這些的問題那我想這個的確是此風不可漲這個真是一個假釋中的一個這個怎麼可以去善或來 部長 這個個案喔那我想這部分這個個案當然要處理啦這個個案當然要處理但是我們今天見為之助嘛今天他敢這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].start |
29517.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].end |
29529.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].text |
他可以光明正大的那是因為剛好他這個影片我不知道為什麼突然在社群上就爆紅了我也是在社群上看到他發現這個人怎麼那麼囂張但我相信這樣子的心態這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].start |
29530.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].end |
29554.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].text |
這個社區它這樣子的組織它不是唯一一個一定前面很多人做過類似的事情不斷的回溯不斷的再來一遍又一遍包含說前面也有問的我們這種判所謂的詐欺犯罪這些輕罪的人他們的債範率到底多少多少人被抓了被判了半年之後我出來然後我繼續投入同樣的產業繼續再做一樣事情這部分的數據到底我們法務部有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].start |
29555.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].end |
29581.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].text |
這部分我們有委員有需要的話我們可以提供給你們做一個參考那我想這個這個輕判的這個大家社會認為輕判我相信在一個假以時日我想這個整個效果會顯示出來因為我跟委員報告其實以前我們繳證署在監的這些受刑人是以毒品最多現在新收的都已經是詐欺最多了那個毒品的這邊一直降從五成降到四成 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].start |
29582.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].end |
29604.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].text |
現在榨漆是一直在增加那個比例所以現在新收人犯新收最多的就是榨漆犯所以我想這個效果我們新法施行之後已經見到它的效果但是我們在等這個時間因為總是要一個審判的期間這樣才會看出它具體的成果這種數字是屬於 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].start |
29605.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].end |
29621.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].text |
那個還沒有確定的一個我們希望這個數字能夠盡快呈現因為我提到了去年8月到現在快一年了那當然這個數字案件辦董事要有一定的心法要加快啦這個我是希望說行政的立場也好或是從司法立場也好或從我們多數民的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].start |
29623.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].end |
29650.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].text |
這個騙就是事實嘛我錢一直被騙走我每個月這麼多民眾的錢被騙走如果我們把它視為常態的一般像以前這樣我要強調為什麼一開始我要講這個案例就是因為我們過去當然你把它視為說這個是整個國家裡面其中一項事情那當然我們就按照流程來處理但今天我想詐騙的問題是動搖國本動搖民間的資產這個真的是我們以前常常講長富於民沒想到民間有這麼多自己給被騙耶一直被騙耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].start |
29651.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].end |
29665.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].text |
那這個部分當然需要說這些去做詐騙的人就算他是車手車手被視為說是整個詐騙的產業裡面最底層的但是如果沒有這些車手詐騙也沒辦法成因為你每次都講我們也抓不到手錨啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].start |
29668.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].end |
29696.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].text |
總是要把他手腳砍斷這個跟委員報告 我想我們努力今年來就破了2200多個炸團有 我看到報告上面有這個數據不是只有單純一個數據這個炸團整個一個非常大一個炸團的話就可以壓50幾個人所以我想我們的努力我想如果委員有在注意我們檢警調的這些的懲罰的績效我想你就很有印象部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].start |
29697.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].end |
29725.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].text |
再來談一下方法論的部分當然過去我也非常關注詐騙包含因為這是我自己的支持者親身經歷過所以我在提近代立法院包含提了電信管理法這個惡類電信詐騙我們要處理因為惡類電信過去也是很多人透過惡類電信這個法律的修正也走了一年才終於在基點終於刪讀後續現在正在執行當然執行成效好不好也需要等待時間出來惡類電信接下來還有什麼問題要處理我們的所謂的預付卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].start |
29726.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].end |
29737.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].text |
傳統名稱移工卡 外勞卡這部分兩百多萬一路在外面 辦兩百多萬張但說真的 我國的所謂不管合法的 非法的移工大約就一百萬左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].start |
29738.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].end |
29759.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].text |
就像你把桃園外老全部抓進去一百萬左右但是我們的卡有兩百多萬張那到底多的卡去哪裡了我們到底現在查到什麼程度在給我的數據裡面目前只有查了一百六十五萬筆那我就很好奇啊電信是有心靈資料的我們如果總外籍人士只有一百萬左右而已我有兩百多萬張卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].start |
29760.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].end |
29771.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].text |
不是應該很快可以匹配出來這張卡跟那個人有沒有在一起吧同一個人取下兩張卡有沒有在一起吧這不是應該很好查是因為什麼要查了這麼久然後還有這麼多卡查不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].start |
29772.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].end |
29796.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].text |
跟委員報告這一部分我們是預計在8月底三家的239萬全部都清查完畢之所以會有時間的限制是因為當初有一些茶的量能專線怕影響白天入出境管理局的作業這邊我們也謝謝新市警察局跟入出境管理局移民署跟我們的合作這一塊到8月底都會清查出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].start |
29797.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].end |
29818.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].text |
另外委員也關切了說這一塊部分其實到現在為止也已經停花了25.6萬拒絕申辦了14.6萬所以8月底以前這些全部都清查完畢我今天提這個就是希望說我們這件事情就一開始我所講的我們希望整個行政系統應該把這件事情視為第一要務 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].start |
29819.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].end |
29842.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].text |
能夠阻止的不管是電信詐騙也好網絡詐騙也好金融詐騙也好我手上就有了資料就是你們能夠確實掌握到資料至少先把這個先斷掉嘛那其他的他用新的手法來騙用新的手法來鑽漏洞我們才有餘力去追查但是你現在是至少要先把手上能夠擁有的先處理完如果連手上擁有的本來我提到的心靈資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].start |
29843.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].end |
29865.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].text |
一個人匹配他有兩張卡這兩張卡在不同地方出現他就擺明不同的人在使用這個應該就可以直接禁掉了不需要等那麼多時間對 這邊我們最後清查完畢就是他如果已經出境那卡還在國內的就會給他停掉另外委員關心的此卡的數量部分我們也已經在納管就是說外國人大概只一門為原則 本國人是兩門 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].start |
29866.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].end |
29883.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].text |
如果说超过两门它要加强KYC的一些风控也要求业主来做到这一点我们未来除了在KYC指引之外我们现在在政委的打炸的修法里头我们打算修入打炸条例第14条那边去 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].start |
29884.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].end |
29898.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].text |
好主委謝謝喔院長接下來還有一個剛剛你提到說其實我們真的銀行很辛苦第一線警察很辛苦所以我們常去阻詐是用人工去阻詐行員說你不可以轉警察就說你不能轉他就硬要轉然後把他轉出去發現自己被騙了 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].start |
29899.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].end |
29928.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].text |
我能參考新加坡啊因為你剛提的沒錯詐騙是全球問題就連法律大家認為最嚴格的新加坡他們詐騙也非常嚴重所以他們今年提了一個法案Protection from Scams Bill的一個法案做什麼事情他就是從被害者的角度去出發今天我們是用柔性勸導的我們台灣是用柔性勸導說你不要轉啦那如果堅持要轉他還是能轉的新加坡他們的法案我認為是我們國內可以參考的方式他認為有疑慮的他會發出限制令 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].start |
29930.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].end |
29954.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].text |
這個帳戶不能把這個錢轉進去大筆的不能轉但是要保留你的生活費你有對詐騙的疑慮警察來介入 司法機關來介入把相關的錢保護起來雖然是圈存 凍結起來但是你的生活費你要繳學費你要繳房貸 你要繳日常的生活費一樣可以繼續支出這樣的方向有沒有可能在我們中華民國政府裡面來試用 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].start |
29956.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].end |
29967.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].text |
因為我們到底是一個教育自由高度自由的國家跟社會我想要這樣做以保護被害人的身份是值得考量但是一定要取得社會的共識應該把這個議題讓大家來討論好 謝謝黃建豪委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].start |
29995.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].end |
30009.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].text |
好 接下來我們請陳庭飛委員質詢葛如君委員請準備謝謝院長我們請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].start |
30024.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].end |
30043.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].text |
主委好 辛苦了 謝謝這幾天我想在這段時間除了我們要忙著我們台南的風災雨災還有很多縣市你辛苦了但是因為打仗也是很重要的議題我知道說從我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].start |
30046.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].end |
30065.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].text |
民進黨執政以來甚至是賴總統上任以來其實我們對於打詐的議題是非常關注的然後在我們賴總統開始我們也一路從2024年我們有打詐五法也有打詐新四法 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].start |
30066.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].end |
30090.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].text |
但是我們也重新把所謂的打詐儀錶板然後讓大家看得到到底我們現在被詐騙的數字所以很多人就說好像我們感覺我們的數字越來越多可是賴總統說不是是因為我們要求所有各單位各部會要據時呈現所有 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].start |
30093.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].end |
30121.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].text |
人員或是人民被詐騙的數字所以感受到我們沒有掩飾我們也沒有掩蓋所有的狀況讓大家很清楚了解原本我們是期待大家看到這些數字會很驚慌會很擔憂可是我們看了之後反而在一度可能有稍微往下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].start |
30122.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].end |
30143.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].text |
可是之後又往上我們也看到了最近幾個案例台中一家五口的命案說我們全家都被詐騙了沒有錢走上絕路還有看到這個汐止老夫妻親生因為被詐騙了250萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].start |
30147.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].end |
30163.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].text |
這些都是眼睜睜讓我們看到這些數字跟這些社會案件那我要問院長在我們打詐無法打詐新釋法之後然後我們也看到打詐儀表板 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].start |
30165.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].end |
30188.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].text |
整個數字從113年8月一路來看到了114年1月2月好像有往下降了可是還是在往上飆升我們看到這些數字院長你有什麼感受比較低的月份它有它的因素就每年大概在那個時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].start |
30190.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].end |
30219.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].text |
是比較低的 往年都這樣子我們現在是每個禮拜 我剛剛說過我們的政務會議林明星政委都會把這個數字向政委們說明我們就一直掌握說 不論如何不讓它再往上升一定先把它壓平再把它往下降我們現在思索更多的方式現在幾乎是呈現一個比較水平的狀態我們現在在思索是如何把它往下降所以第一個不讓它往上升 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].start |
30220.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].end |
30230.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].text |
初期達到這樣的要求所以我們幾項速度在我們設定是達標的但這些達標不代表我們有多少成效是我們現在下一個階段就是希望把它往下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].start |
30231.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].end |
30253.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].text |
所以我們現在目前先控管數字不要往上飆升用的方法就是剛剛我們所說的市詐賭詐房詐主詐以及懲詐這幾項內容他也達標了那我們還用科技引入找出這個潛在的被害人等等的方式而且我們知道年輕人跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].start |
30254.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].end |
30273.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].text |
退休的比較高齡的朋友們他們容易在某些季節裡面變成受害的對象我們也鎖定這些關鍵的時刻院長 我們不斷在宣導我們不斷在把這些訊息讓我們周邊的人知道可是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].start |
30276.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].end |
30299.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].text |
重點在哪裡是因為對方就是詐騙的人他的手法日新月異但是我們都是由各個單位然後固定一個禮拜開一次會如果必要的時候才由政委召集會議你知道政委召集幾次會議了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].start |
30302.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].end |
30313.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].text |
林明清政委是經常召集很多次會議我沒有辦法算出他幾次會議還有他跟司法院也在做溝通其實政委召集會議就四次那雖然我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].start |
30315.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].end |
30332.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].text |
每個禮拜每個月我們這些小組打造辦公室指揮中心都會開會可是我們被負責的部分就是只有報告而已而且我們沒有一個主責單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].start |
30334.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].end |
30362.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].text |
在抓出到底別人怎麼在利用心理因素然後日新月異的詐騙手法我們沒有一個單位主要在監控這些訊息你知道這個詐騙集團他是每天他覺得你有辦法突破我我就有辦法突破你 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].start |
30366.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].end |
30377.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].text |
可是重點是人家是一個集團每天就是在思考這些詐騙的手法但是我們有沒有這樣的主責單位每天在跟他鬥法 沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].start |
30386.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].end |
30412.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].text |
我們都只是有了這些訊息被詐騙了收集這些資料變成樣板然後我們再從這些樣板思考這些方式去針對它 去防堵它但是人家已經又換了一個手法了現在的問題是在這裡所以你看我們的資料我把它特別調出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].start |
30413.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].end |
30434.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].text |
我們被詐騙的被害人其實24歲到39歲他是最高峰的他是最高峰的然後第二順位是誰40歲到59歲然後再來是12歲到23歲你知道光24歲到39歲他最被詐騙的人數就52,140人 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].start |
30441.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].end |
30447.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].text |
然後40歲到59歲被詐騙的是38,792人12歲到23歲是24,424人我們有沒有去分析為什麼24歲到39歲被詐騙的人是最多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].start |
30462.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].end |
30491.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].text |
我們如果沒有從這個族群去做分析我們沒有辦法了解為什麼我們的被詐騙人數一直居高不下再來我們從詐騙被害人的這些資料收集他的教育程度其實高中職是最高峰的是第一名的總共占了六萬四千兩百五十二位 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].start |
30492.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].end |
30513.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].text |
大專是第二市佔了44,943為什麼我們有沒有去了解為什麼在教育程度當中被詐騙的第一名教育程度是高中職然後第二名是大專院校 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].start |
30514.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].end |
30527.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].text |
如果我們沒有把這些細節把它區分出來我們就不知道問題會出在哪裡所以你看我們的數字2024年2024年被損失的金額總共整年度是1332億250萬2547元 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].start |
30542.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].end |
30569.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].text |
到了目前2025年截至到七月底為止是五百六十五億五千六百八十萬五千元你看我們不斷的在宣導其實我們走到哪裡都在宣導我們都跟大家講拜託天上沒掉下來的禮物從簡訊跟你說恭喜你中獎了可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].start |
30572.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].end |
30586.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[903].text |
一開始他們用簡單說恭喜你中獎可是現在他們的手法已經改變了他們居然可以了解到你都在哪一個網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].start |
30587.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].end |
30610.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[904].text |
買東西而且都知道說你可能在哪一個時段哪一個時間你密集在哪一個網站買東西然後突然之間傳了一個訊息給你說我告訴你因為你在哪裡哪一個網站買東西但是我們都刷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].start |
30611.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].end |
30640.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[905].text |
那你會不會很懷疑 不會啊因為他講的資訊很正確啊我確實在哪一個時間 哪一個時段我有在哪一個網站買東西所以他就打電話去問說 你說我多刷了 你要退還給我就中了我的經驗 我都用貨到付款絕不給他賬號 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].start |
30642.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].end |
30663.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[906].text |
但是我們現在手機LiPayApple Pay非常的方便太簡單了 太輕易了對不對 非常的方便根本就不會想到用貨到付款除非我們開始宣導拜託大家 貨到付款可以這樣宣導嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].start |
30665.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].end |
30689.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[907].text |
不一定每個人都適用對啊不一定每個人都適用嘛所以我一直在講為什麼我們這個族群24到39歲族群是最多的因為這個族群用LiPay Apple Pay非常多最方便還有第二名是40到59歲因為這個年齡層也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].start |
30695.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].end |
30719.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[908].text |
第三12歲到23歲剛好這三個年齡層所以我說院長你應該責成他們去做分析要把這些問題點找出來我們才有防詐的一個利基點還有為什麼明明我們常在講我們不斷宣導希望大家不要受騙那應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].start |
30721.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].end |
30751.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[909].text |
我們受教育的程度如果越高的話我們認為應該比較不會受騙但是為什麼不一定為什麼我們要不要找出原因我們現在常常在活動當中跟阿公阿嬤去宣導可是如果依照這個數字應該被宣導的阿公阿嬤很重要可是在24歲到39歲也很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].start |
30752.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].end |
30763.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[910].text |
所以我在講的是我們要對症下藥要怎麼對症下藥如果我們沒有把這些數字很清楚的做分析那我們很難對症下藥啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].start |
30765.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].end |
30784.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[911].text |
我相信內政部 警政署 打詐中心他們都有做各種不同的分析今天我們呈現出來的是從案件來做分析年齡的分析 族群的分析應該都是一個基礎上的分析我可以請他們應該有做這個分析的資料我們跟委員一起來研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].start |
30785.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].end |
30803.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[912].text |
院長不是只有分析就是他們有分析啊所以我才拿得到這些資料啊就是他們有所謂族群這個哪一個年齡層最多然後那個次多的是誰就是因為他們有這個所以我拿得到資料重點是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].start |
30805.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].end |
30824.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[913].text |
為什麼我們要去把這些案例做一個比對是不是這些人因為用iPad、iPad比較多用Apple Pay的比較多或做什麼樣的一個直接用手機支付的比較多網路購物的比較多我覺得我們去做這個分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].start |
30825.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].end |
30840.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[914].text |
所以院長因為這些資料一定是他們有把它分析出來對 有這個基礎我只是拜託他們有沒有把所有的案例再做比對為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].start |
30841.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].end |
30870.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[915].text |
應該我們要的是這些比較潛在的資料那麼我們才能對於這些族群去做一些宣導甚至一些防堵甚至有一些要求我們一定要有這樣的一個數字所以院長這是我的想法非常好我們不想要拜託你 必要是朝這個方向因為我們在地方實在是接受太多的訊息了 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].start |
30871.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].end |
30884.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[916].text |
所以拜託院長可能要折成我們這些相關單位來做這個部分那剩只有幾秒鐘的時間我跟院長報告一下要拜託一下我的板子呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].start |
30888.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].end |
30915.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[917].text |
我要拜託我們的院長因為我板子沒拿下來就是說院長有兩個部分拜託就是我們家戶這個防水閘板的部分家戶防水閘板申請趕快做專案的核准凱米有 我們丹納斯沒有大家都期待第二個就是農民勞工的紓困貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].start |
30918.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].end |
30929.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[918].text |
這個會有一個及時語這個及時語很重要這兩個部分拜託院長給我們一個最快速的一個回應我們盡量納入特別條例特別預算當中來好 謝謝陳廷飛委員質詢謝謝卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].start |
30941.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].end |
30961.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[919].text |
報應會現在來自我們議場二樓旁聽的是香港之友會舉光文化福中心兩個團體熱情掌聲熱情歡迎好我們接下來請葛如君委員質詢林楚瑩委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].start |
30985.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].end |
30989.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[920].text |
好 謝謝院長有請行政院卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].start |
31001.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].end |
31018.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[921].text |
委員好 院長好我想我國的詐騙問題很嚴重您今天應該已經有更深刻的認識詐欺案件的發生數和採水的金額可以說是逐年升高想必您今天就是最好了解的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].start |
31019.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].end |
31043.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[922].text |
那為了讓政府有充足的武器跟工具去應對日益嚴重的詐騙案件我們透過了法律去賦予行政機關空間以及條件作為在必要的時候採取必要行動的依據不過沒想到如今卻變成了行政單位有可能去侵害到人權以及數位人權的手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].start |
31044.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].end |
31070.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[923].text |
過去其實發生過不少次錯誤下架的事件有一些平台啊比如說在去年大量的下架正牌財經網紅的粉專遭到大家的批評在兩週之前又再次發生數千人的賬號被停權下架裡面有醫師有新聞主播美妝旅遊KOL |
| transcript.whisperx[924].start |
31071.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].end |
31098.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[924].text |
設計師 心理師還有出版社編輯各行各業可以說是百工百業被下架更甚者在四天前連我們113位立委之一翁小林委員的臉書帳號也被停權粉專藍勾勾也被下架這些被平台下架封鎖的一般民眾非常痛苦成立了超過3000人的自救會 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].start |
31099.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].end |
31106.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[925].text |
本席手上有他們的陳情書這裡面有五百多個人的個資以及心聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].start |
31108.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].end |
31132.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[926].text |
500多人啊 這只是一小部分啊3000人的自救會 也只是一小部分啊他們有些人啊 失去了工作有些人啊 他的工作本來就是管理這些粉專老闆的賬號被封啊 連員工的也一起被封粉專立刻不見 而認定他們失職還有直接就被集團給fire掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].start |
31132.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].end |
31147.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[927].text |
有人是多年的家庭生活的記錄跟祖父母合照的照片就因為帳號被停權下架消失人生的閱歷回憶全部消失而罹患了憂鬱症 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].start |
31148.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].end |
31170.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[928].text |
有非常多複雜的狀態所以我想要請教院長本席正式的在此將這份陳情書交給您這裡面有受害者的名稱 停權日期停權造成的影響等等能不能您接下來我們就折騰速發布來處理此事各位我在數年前也曾經被下架過 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].start |
31171.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].end |
31183.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[929].text |
這經過一個程序就把它回復過來您是院長不是 數年前報告委員但是這確實是擾民我們是不是先接下這個陳情書願意嗎 院長可以吧好 謝謝謝謝院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].start |
31207.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].end |
31226.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[930].text |
我想真的也謝謝院長接下這幾千位裡面只是一部分的這個陳情書啊那真的是要責成速發部來正視此事我想部長您應該希望能夠盡速給這些受害者您也受害過一個交代不要讓他們繼續承受這些壓力對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].start |
31229.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].end |
31249.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[931].text |
待會會有時間給抒發部部長說明院長你應該願意幫忙對吧我們認為我們在打擊各種不法的過程當中也是要善盡到保護一般的合法的國人好的這裡面其實真的不是只是平台的責任我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].start |
31250.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].end |
31273.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[932].text |
很多人都是因為政府機關的錯誤通知才慘遭下架很多人正常的經營粉專就被這些平台告知因為政府有速發部有刑事局有可能是金管會的要求去下架當平台業者收到通知以後如果不進行處理可能就會被處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].start |
31274.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].end |
31292.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[933].text |
只好全部下架全部封鎖但有很多正牌的粉專正牌的帳號就被錯殺造成正版被下架結果咧爆版活得好好的還像雨後春筍一樣冒出來院長您可以看一下左邊左上角本來是一個KOL |
| transcript.whisperx[934].start |
31293.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].end |
31320.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[934].text |
他的帳號被下架以後左下角搜尋同樣的KOL名字立刻跑出一堆假的這不是在助長詐騙集團嗎在右邊也是另外一個用粉專在營業推廣知識的平台就來陳情抱怨因為被打詐被下架立刻跑出一堆假的平台假冒他們的身份去騙錢啊所以我想請院長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].start |
31321.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].end |
31346.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[935].text |
真的要了解如果我們打詐真的有這種錯殺由政府發出通知錯殺的情況這就是在幫助詐騙集團院長同意嗎我們會盡量的避免但是同時這個內容的審查跟雙方之間民眾跟平台之間有可能是他們內部的商業行為這個倒不是一概而論全部都這樣不是一概而論但是政府要負政府的責任同意嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].start |
31347.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].end |
31364.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[936].text |
我們來看一下政府其實有責任這些都是非常明確的速發部可以封鎖把服務搶起來然後我們的內政部刑事局可以說不能看台灣人不能看 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].start |
31365.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].end |
31390.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[937].text |
還有完全沒有證據就說人家有詐欺的嫌疑整個帳號被停權沒有證據哪個單位哪個情況完全不知道請問院長當民眾因為政府單位錯誤通報被下架以後民眾應該要如何申訴我們期待平台有一個申訴的管道政府需不需要因為政府有通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].start |
31391.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].end |
31394.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[938].text |
政府如果可以的話我們也可以做一些這樣的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].start |
31396.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].end |
31420.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[939].text |
提供一些管道來幫忙那現在管道待會我們會提到啦那誰要對這個錯誤負責有沒有賠償的機制很多粉專就是他們的營業的方法啊就是一個粉專就是一個公司啊第一個當然是要求公部門能夠嚴格的要求自己那如果出現了這樣的錯誤我們第一個協助民眾儘快恢復如果有不得恢復的事情那可能會是衍生其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].start |
31421.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].end |
31437.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[940].text |
民事的等等問題 我覺得那個是個法律問題謝謝院長說要趕快協助那我們來看一下其實現在的狀況就是速發部完全沒有管道來協助民眾其實這裡我們看一下這個通報網的流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].start |
31438.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].end |
31452.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[941].text |
裡面呢有審核機關結果呢完全沒有任何一個機制去審核這些審核機關去監督這些監督機關我想問一下速發部長民眾去請速發部下架有單一窗口嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].start |
31454.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].end |
31470.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[942].text |
我們有網路詐騙通報查詢網我說的是帳號被停權的一般受害的百姓我們有申訴管道如果有申訴管道有效的話還會有這麼多人要陳情三千多人要成立自救會嗎報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].start |
31472.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].end |
31498.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[943].text |
我們這些很多不是我們去那個因為像Meta它有一個叫社群守則那這個社群守則很多是它根據內部的自律的機制去做處理並不是我們謝謝部長我已經都秀給部長看了你們的部會名稱都在這裡院長如果只要有錯下架你們都說是平台的責任那我讓平台來當速發部部長好不好不能這樣子我們先講沒有關係部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].start |
31501.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].end |
31518.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[944].text |
我相信速發部很想把事情做好我們現在是一起把事情做好我們來看一下這張圖啦我直接就問嘛中間的審核機關可以決定名單通報平台去下架這個部分沒問題啊這張圖是你們自己的圖喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].start |
31519.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].end |
31541.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[945].text |
那請問這個審核機關啊有沒有平衡的機制有沒有人可以二次把關這個審核機關有沒有誘因去提高他的辨識率不要亂下架什麼機制告訴我我們現在就是在精進這個機制那我剛講就是說很多比如像這牽涉到健康衛福 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].start |
31541.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].end |
31568.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[946].text |
那就衛福部來審查我們沒辦法做第二次審查交通的話就交通部來審查或者是各個部會他負責審查自己內部的內容就說像詐騙廣告是要給目的事業主管機關所以院長今天我要透過這個渠道來讓您知道這個各個目的事業主管機關的認定是沒有任何人可以制衡沒有任何人可以檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].start |
31568.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].end |
31594.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[947].text |
我們今天完全不知道任何一個部會今天提供了多少清單有多少人被下架哪些是錯誤的我們有這樣的機制嗎如果你要再加一個機制下去那整個下架流程變更長我們現在希望是24小時下架你要再去重新審查所以就是求快剛剛那三千個人的權益都可以損失嗎三千人不見不見的都是我們要求下架這是他的社群守則 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].start |
31595.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].end |
31620.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[948].text |
那有沒有是你們的啊我再秀一次有沒有是你們的嗎所以我想你們事實上我們都很清楚啦正確率其實是不夠的啦我只是不想在這裡大家都是同行我想要一個具體的建議機關不可以獨斷獨行做出侵害民眾的權益我們要有double check的機制不然某個機關心情好多殺一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].start |
31621.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].end |
31646.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[949].text |
心情不好多錯一點有什麼關係有沒有平衡的方法有打架儀表板可不可以有下架儀表板讓大家可以知道發生什麼事在儀表板旁邊可以有申訴院長可不可以責成速發部把這件事做好我先講一句話我說我幾年前也被下架過那時候並沒有這個通報的平台但是那個下架就是他內部的管理所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].start |
31647.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].end |
31672.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[950].text |
今天所有的下架都歸於這個平台我們有全部歸於但是這個機制不完美部長也承認了我們來也請委員來提供我們有沒有更好的方式來一個安全的機制我剛剛提出了有打詐儀標板可不可以有下架儀標板我們現在民眾沒有人知道誰是被錯下架誰是自己真的做了壞事沒有任何證據院長我們希望責成可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].start |
31673.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].end |
31699.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[951].text |
我們第一個要求我們事先在審核的時候各部會依照他的部會業務要嚴格的來審核即是優化嚴格處理不好意思我時間有限了還有一個很重要的問題我們剛剛討論的是平台我們現在討論連整個網站跟服務都有可能被封鎖了我們看到速發部有說哇很成功啊攔阻了幾萬件幾十萬件啊但是結果發生什麼事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].start |
31700.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].end |
31722.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[952].text |
DNSRPG是鎖掉整個平台跟網域啊Google可以直接被認定詐騙封網啊我們Telegram可以直接被搶啊我們連這個Azure的雲端平台的服務全部包括超商企業全部連到這裡被封鎖啊沒辦法解鎖院長知道為什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].start |
31722.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].end |
31751.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[953].text |
因為公文系統也是用這個平台在建設的所以公文發不出去所以我想要問的就是啊我們沒有一個機制去做但是呢部長之前有說了給平台跟服務也有救濟管道請問部長救濟管道在哪裡我們剛剛就委員建議就是說我們當然以後會在我們的這個網路大通報存檔加一個鏈接不過現在遇到這種狀況的時候直接聯絡我們蘇華部的窗口我們都會去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].start |
31751.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].end |
31780.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[954].text |
但是另外一點就是說其實這些平台他們也有申訴的管道所以事實上可以從那個地方申訴也是可以所以申訴的管道不是一個您是速發部部長平台是平台如果您再這樣做我們請平台來做速發部好了啦我想我們不要這樣我們先繼續我想請問院長機關動用防詐條例第42條可以用DLS RPZ直接認定就封鎖不用經過審核為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].start |
31782.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].end |
31798.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[955].text |
可以看一下各目的事業主管機關喔您底下的所有部位只要他認為有問題直接就可以全部封掉剛剛全部的都是因為這一條院長為什麼可以這樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].start |
31801.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].end |
31827.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[956].text |
是不是可以檢討一下可不可以檢討一下這個流程跟機制有沒有濫用的問題濫用法條的問題可以嗎這個認定如果是依法來認定應該沒有事法上的問題但依法這個法它是合不合理那就是另外一個討論我們是給空間跟條件但是執行上拜託好好的處理那一定要嚴謹的去認定如果是 沒錯 嚴謹嘛緊急案件我們理解可是沒有制衡跟濫用這個我們絕對是不可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].start |
31828.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].end |
31846.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[957].text |
我想有很多的錯誤判斷沒有把關就會造成什麼降分我想網路人權也是人權數位人權也是人權美國自由之家在網路自由度的報告2022年跟2023年都下降你知道為什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].start |
31848.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].end |
31874.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[958].text |
我想院長不清楚我直接給你看2022年降分因為你們封鎖了因為你們屏蔽了2023年你們刑事案件裡面直接對網站刑事屏蔽沒有做任何的監督機制跟監察機制所以我們想要講的就是不透明沒有監察機制就有錯殺亂殺我想我們作為民主國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].start |
31875.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].end |
31902.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[959].text |
一個數位的帳號也是一個數位的人數位人權也是人權數位民主也是民主數位資訊的自由也是自由如果沒有審查的機制沒有嚴格執行的做法就會影響到我們的數位人權院長可不可以在一個月內對保障數位人權提出報告我請訴發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].start |
31903.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].end |
31915.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[960].text |
請恕研究一個合理的救濟的管道跟機制好 謝謝葛如君委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].start |
31929.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].end |
31951.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[961].text |
好 接下來我們請林楚英委員請質詢陳冠廷委員請準備謝謝主席主席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢數位部黃部長數位部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].start |
31964.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].end |
31984.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[962].text |
議員好院長辛苦了其實從今天早上我在這裡聆聽您的報告的時候我就非常注意到首先當然我必須講只要有任何一件詐騙的存在人民就不會滿意但是呢詐騙這個部分我想詐騙集團他其實就是絞盡腦汁要 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].start |
31987.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].end |
32001.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[963].text |
從人民或者是受害者的身上拿到最多的金錢上面的利益所以他也會絞盡腦汁那麼對整個行政團隊來講確實是非常非常大的嚴苛考驗跟挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].start |
32002.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].end |
32022.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[964].text |
今天我們針對這個新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0的執行成效請您跟相關的部會來做報告也一整天了那我必須講這個行動的打擊的2.0的綱領是去年11月底也就是11月28號才開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].start |
32024.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].end |
32046.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[965].text |
那麼說實在的根本都還沒滿一年如果我們用月來推算現在大概就是滿八個月而已其實現在在這個時間點所有防詐的各個相關部會坐在這裡是不是現在馬上就必須要來做檢討其實本席是存疑的因為坦白說立法院在這個時候它並不是會議的期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].start |
32047.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].end |
32064.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[966].text |
但是因為民眾黨提案要研會民眾黨也提案說要來做這個報告那麼我們當然也就予以尊重但是到底有多少民眾黨的委員在現場目前有一位啦那其他的民眾黨的委員呢有人早上黨署席還去車隊掃街了 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].start |
32066.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].end |
32091.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[967].text |
所以我認為我希望真正關心這個議題的就不要作秀真的好好的認真來關心這個題目那麼我們一起來解決民眾的問題首先開始之前本席先來念一個最新的報導上面提到的就是道高一尺 謀高一丈打詐2.0我們真的要加把勁根據行政院的官員說今年的詐騙期短有兩種改變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].start |
32094.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].end |
32122.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[968].text |
第一個是詐騙的金額沒有變少一樣喔但是案件數變多了可見詐騙集團很狡猾他的作案動作越來越多那麼剛剛前面有委員一直提到的就是打詐的樣態當越來越多的時候我們到底要如何讓人民知道第二個當然等一下我也會就叫金管會的彭主委就是現在的洗錢流程變短了那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].start |
32123.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].end |
32150.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[969].text |
過去可能要有五個步驟要有超過三個金融機構以上但現在通常就是兩個步驟一下子經過一個金融機構就洗到了加密貨幣然後來無影去無蹤我想先就第一個就是詐騙的樣態變多本席想請問一下部長手機裡面有沒有下載一個叫做打詐通報平台系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].start |
32152.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].end |
32180.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[970].text |
部長你有下載這個平台系統嗎委員講的是我們自己有一個網路有一個APP部長你有下載嗎有下載其實剛剛前面葛如君委員在問的就是這個包括這個通報的系統到底怎麼樣的操作其實本席有下載但是你知道這個通報系統有多少人知道有多少人在使用嗎我們來看下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].start |
32182.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].end |
32202.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[971].text |
這個通報系統5月15號上線到現在截至8月11號有19522位民眾下載那麼有3300剛好3838人使用這個APP來做案件的通報但是如果以Google Play平台上每個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].start |
32203.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].end |
32231.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[972].text |
下載的流量有61萬件來講那麼我就請問部長你覺得這個使用量高嗎我們需要我們當然希望更高那我們也需要做一些宣傳這個我想我們可以再繼續努力但現在就是說很多民眾下載之後他們很熱心通報所以我們通報的案件有現在到目前至少有超過25萬件然後裡面有發現14萬件以上是詐騙廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].start |
32233.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].end |
32251.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[973].text |
讓我們能夠去下架這14萬多件的詐騙廣告所以雖然說參與的下載人不多但是這些民眾的熱情通報確實讓我們下架很多詐騙廣告但是我們會繼續努力讓更多人能夠去利用這樣的一個APP來協助政府打詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].start |
32251.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].end |
32269.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[974].text |
坦白說本席是因為要質詢所以才去做了功課然後我才下載知道的人可以說是非常的少但是既然五月份到現在我們就已經上架但是使用量卻非常低其實它有一個功能是很好用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].start |
32269.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].end |
32284.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[975].text |
我們乾脆就藉由今天現在這個質詢的機會來告訴大家就是當你發現任何一個平台上面有任何一個廣告任何一個社群你覺得有問題你只要複製貼上就可以通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].start |
32285.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].end |
32308.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[976].text |
而且在通報的過程中他會告訴你現在通報的狀況比如說本席現在看到放在最上面的一個是蔡鴻圖的粉絲專頁還有國泰清控董事長他的粉絲專頁被通報了但是我點進去看之後他其實還在跟本人確認中 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].start |
32310.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].end |
32326.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[977].text |
所以這個也就是剛剛委員們垂詢這未到的就是說這是不是放進去之後到底能不能獲得證實我看到的這個是我點進去看了8月15號就通報了 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].start |
32328.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].end |
32352.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[978].text |
那8月15號也就是今天嘛那早上通報了之後那麼到了下午之後有沒有任何新的進展不知道但是也許現在我們諮詢的傳播出去了本人會趕快來確認這是不是真的那我覺得這樣的一個通報系統他是結合了跟平台的合作跟金管會跟財政部跟所有的社群 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].start |
32353.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].end |
32375.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[979].text |
包括在我們的打炸相關的部會當中他都有做一個連結大家會知道這個資訊我覺得是一件好事但問題現在就在這裡宣傳不夠民眾不知道那麼就形同虛設到底我們要如何增強宣傳我們大家也知道巧婦難為無米之炊啦現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].start |
32376.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].end |
32404.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[980].text |
數位部到底有沒有打算要做宣傳當然本席也可以幫忙找出數據包括之前數位部因為宣傳費用這個通院刪減60%然後宣傳提案又刪了50%所以你們到底還剩下多少的宣傳那這個部分到底有沒有安排宣傳還是你就是把它上架在Google的App Store跟這個Apple的App Store然後其他你就沒有再管它 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].start |
32406.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].end |
32426.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[981].text |
委員其實講到一個重點就是因為經費被大刪的結果我們現在所有經費都拿去發展因為這個APL包括我們要發展AI的技術去做這個掃描所以的確在宣傳經費上是幾乎沒有但是我想以後我們會在有限資源之下我們會盡量去做宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].start |
32428.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].end |
32454.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[982].text |
這個基本上 院長我覺得這個通報系統我自己下載了之後我覺得有它的必要存在性但是剛剛前面的委員也在質詢就是是不是讓平台擁有太多的下架權力但是這個就是這樣當初我們在自訂有關於打炸專法的時候求的是快 求的是效率求的是第一時間的阻斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].start |
32456.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].end |
32476.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[983].text |
但是現在呢又過來變成是有人來跟你澄清說哎呀我是正宮結果我的真正的粉絲被阻擋了是不是平台把我屬於我本人真正的認證的粉絲團反而被下架了我要上傳我的東西的時候反而我被阻攔了 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].start |
32477.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].end |
32489.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[984].text |
所以在快速跟正確性之間到底有沒有一個平衡包括剛剛我講的這個通報的平台有沒有bug還是說其實在這個中間真的缺少了一個守門員 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].start |
32492.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].end |
32513.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[985].text |
剛剛從委員那個案例當中就知道他確實有經過一段時間的查和審查那審查的過程當中本人也應該積極的來配合告訴大家說我這個是名符其實的那這個就會安全了那如果他真的是碰到一個假的他大概不敢出面我們就會把他做下一步的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].start |
32514.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].end |
32537.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[986].text |
那這個也是當初速發部在設計這個通報平台當中花了很長時間一直在我們內部的會議一直在反覆的使用我們非常謹慎一定要它能夠達到真實這個目的才出來的談了很多次我發覺都不如今天委員在這裡講的這一次所以您今天應該我們可以請委員當我們的代言人 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].start |
32538.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].end |
32561.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[987].text |
我是真的覺得這個東西五月底上線到現在知道的人太少然後再來就是驗證的速度是不是夠快尤其是像粉絲團或者是Instagram或者是其他這個所謂的社群平台上面的這種所謂個人的粉絲團需要驗證確實需要花一點時間能不能有更多快速的綠色通道那這個就請 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].start |
32562.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].end |
32577.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[988].text |
行政院這裡跟數位部這裡來做一個跟平台更快速的溝通那麼至於如果是所謂我們講的這種廣告式的詐騙那麼他一見就可以立刻把他拉下來那麼這個當然就可以有比較快的效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].start |
32579.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].end |
32604.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[989].text |
報告委員的確沒錯這個整個過程中也就是說尤其特別講的是Meta因為被我們要求的結果要產生更強硬的自律的措施這裡面包括社群守則的確是有需要精進的空間所以剛剛講的很多間的下架是它內部自律的結果我想我們會再跟Meta再去溝通它的確這個所謂的社群守則在判斷這個所謂的詐騙廣告的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].start |
32606.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].end |
32620.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[990].text |
需要更精準這個我們會繼續再跟Meta努力但是很多下架並不是我們數碼部通知的就是他們自律用社群守則去下架這個需要再精進這個我們再會去跟Meta再來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].start |
32621.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].end |
32643.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[991].text |
好那麼接下來呢我要看下一張就是剛剛提到的兩個重點第一個是手段多樣那麼如何讓民眾更知道多樣的手段那麼通報的方式當然要多元再來當然就是有關於虛擬貨幣現在是不是虛擬的服務商虛擬貨幣的服務商成為洗錢的這樣的一個管道當你一旦 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].start |
32643.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].end |
32672.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[992].text |
放进了虚拟货币的平台之后可能就真的再也来无影去无踪因为我们都知道这个所谓在网路上面一旦钱洗出去之后要追都追不回来只能用事后的方式来补枪除了我知道其实今天早上已经有非常多的委员在询问有关于就是我们的虚拟资产的法律到底什么时候可以真的送到立法院因为我们已经过了预告期了 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].start |
32673.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].end |
32693.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[993].text |
現在大家非常要知道的是行政院在這個部分在金管會在這個部分裡面到底怎麼樣來看把關的部分是 跟委員說明一下我們在虛擬資產服務法草案我們在列為27號送進行政院而且很快的行政院劉靜清是政委已經做過審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].start |
32694.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].end |
32714.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[994].text |
持續在審查中因為這個條文是一個全新的而且非常複雜比如這裡面還有涉及到現在全世界都在關注的穩定幣這部分大家都非常的關注我們在送出來之前也已經開過超過20場的公聽會其實也整合了蠻多的意見我想這個應該會儘速來在行政院討論完畢然後送到行政院來 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].start |
32714.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].end |
32738.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[995].text |
因為其實現在缺的就是一個法源我當然知道就是現在許多我們的相關的這個虛擬的貨幣的服務商喔他們其實是很配合的不論他們有沒有在台灣落地他們都很願意配合相關的單位來進行打詐的協助但是有沒有法源是非常的重要如果說今天明明知道這個賬戶有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].start |
32739.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].end |
32754.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[996].text |
但是沒有法源可以立即來做阻斷那麼我們只能變成事後後續來把錢追回來但是放上了網路一切斷鏈之後前後追查不到那麼很難錢會追回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].start |
32755.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].end |
32770.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[997].text |
所以對於所謂的很快到底要有多快速度上面院長有沒有一個想法跟宣示因為我們都知道虛擬資產的服務商他們多數是跟銀行端確實是有建立一定的聯絡的管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].start |
32770.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].end |
32791.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[998].text |
但是如果說今天我們在法規上能夠更健全當我們知道這一筆錢送進了虛擬資產服務平台的時候它就是有憑有據不是來路不明甚至於就是客戶自己的自有的資金那麼可以提供這樣的所謂的KYC的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].start |
32791.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].end |
32819.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[999].text |
那麼當然我們就可以更杜絕所謂剛剛我前面提到的透過這樣的一個虛擬資產虛擬幣把錢洗出去所以法的重要性是來自於不只對於這些服務商提供他們一定的法源的監控是他們跟這些金融機構之間彼此的連結也有一個法源的根據我對於台灣的金融機構在我們金管會的金融監督底下他們包括今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].start |
32821.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].end |
32842.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[1000].text |
前幾個月這個所謂警示賬戶都慢慢逐漸在減少因為對於金融機構來講他們的警示賬戶超過一定的比例他們會收到金管會相關的這個詢問甚至於懲處所以他們是非常非常仔細跟小心的可是聯絡到所以我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].start |
32843.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].end |
32869.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[1001].text |
虛擬幣的服務提供商的時候可能中間就會有一個斷鏈的bug這個也是現在詐騙集團找到可以鑽漏洞的巧門所以我才會認為這個法規必須要加緊腳步剛剛主委說六月底已經呈報到院六月底呈報到院我認為如果內容完整而且非常的充實可用為了趕快我們在下會期是不是可以把它送出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].start |
32875.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].end |
32897.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[1002].text |
好 謝謝林楚瑩委員質詢也謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長貝許瑩 謝謝各位 接下來是最後一位登記的陳冠廷委員我們非常感謝臺灣民眾黨團唯一的從下午專案到現在的劉淑冰委員從頭到尾非常感謝我們請陳冠廷委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].start |
32918.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].end |
32932.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[1003].text |
你好 我們請院長麻煩請卓院長再次備選陳委員好 院長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].start |
32933.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].end |
32961.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[1004].text |
院長我們看今天的報告裡面有提到各種的詐騙的形式其中投資詐騙它也是一個主要的原因投資詐騙裡面我認為說除了詐騙集團他們的各種的方式之外其實源自於不了解投資的標的物特別是我們剛才很多委員都提到的虛擬貨幣也好或者是穩定幣也就是說我們現在金融的防堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].start |
32962.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].end |
32974.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[1005].text |
它有一個重要的一點就是我們在國內大概是有辦法做有效的防堵但是在境外的合作具體的方式可能我們還是需要透過各種外交的手段努力來去進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].start |
32975.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].end |
33004.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[1006].text |
但是現在跨境洗錢過去可能是用虛擬貨幣像是比特幣來進行但是現在穩定幣也成為主流的虛擬貨幣甚至在美國也被納入它的天才法案裡面虛擬貨幣是具備高度的流通性以及高度的隱蔽性所以隱蔽性也有 流通性也有有了穩定幣之後等於是說他們能夠連價值儲存的功能都具備價值甚至不會因為市場的波動而去縮水它又變成了新時代的一個洗錢的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].start |
33005.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].end |
33026.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[1007].text |
我講這麼多的原因是因為在穩定幣雖然是號稱有基於去中心化的技術但是它的發行卻是基於高度中心化的這些發行商所以從這些發行商來去做技術上的凍結特定地址的資產的權利是有的譬如說美國司法部就曾經成功的要求泰達公司凍結泰達幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].start |
33030.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].end |
33050.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[1008].text |
我們在未發生之前我們先做防範它的效用會更大我想請教院長我們是不是也可以和泰達這些主要的穩定幣發行商直接建立快速的緊急聯繫跟凍結機制在黃金時間裡面 例如說24小時內請求這些發行商對這些涉詐的錢包進行預防性的凍結然後之後再補足司法程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].start |
33053.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].end |
33073.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[1009].text |
是跟委員報告一下當然最近有關穩定幣的討論非常的多當然剛剛委員有提到我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面也有這一塊剛剛委員提到說我們可不可以透過特定的穩定幣商去做這樣的合作我想那個層面蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].start |
33074.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].end |
33093.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[1010].text |
特別是剛剛提到這家其實在國際上面它有它很大的特色它是一個受監管比較低度的一個美國穩定幣發行商它比如現在的潮流是希望能夠接受高度的監管泰達它也想說可不可以在有些境內接受高度的監管境外它還是維持這樣這個東西我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].start |
33095.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].end |
33114.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[1011].text |
當然就以犯罪增防的角度的話任何有助於這個當然可以做但是我們現在未來會有自己的穩定幣的發行還有就是說還有怎麼樣跟國際上面的這些已經發行的穩定幣做合作我想這部分可能是我們未來會按照不同的屬性來進行這樣一個討論跟合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].start |
33120.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].end |
33143.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[1012].text |
我只是把這個問題先提出來先做好準備因為過去美國的司法部有成功的案例比如說有潛力的話就可以去遵循潛力特別是在我們能夠努力的方向之一我們先做好防堵未來才可以做有效的去打擊犯罪接下來可能要請教院長跟法務部麻煩請法務部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].start |
33153.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].end |
33166.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[1013].text |
部長 我們想請教一下最近這幾年 任何一年都沒關係因為這個詐欺罪 出獄的受刑人兩年內的再犯率你覺得大概是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].start |
33167.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].end |
33179.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[1014].text |
這部分我沒有目前沒有數據我會後再提供我們有這個數據因為我們從法務部那邊提出來我想說你的概念上面可能有沒有大概是三分之一還是五分之一還是四分之一其實是23.2%這個數字那我為什麼講這個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].start |
33184.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].end |
33202.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[1015].text |
是因為我們如果做統計的話我們做案件來去審理的話我們會看到每年都是數以萬計那個數字是很大的但是如果我們以人追案的話我們找這些有高度的再犯率的有前科的那我們可以發覺到這些人是反覆犯案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].start |
33204.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].end |
33214.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[1016].text |
一年內的再犯比例是16.7%這都是法務部的這些記錄所以說他們重新返回犯罪的速度是極快的所以監禁的嚇阻效果為什麼沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].start |
33216.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].end |
33243.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[1017].text |
這個犯罪持續案它變成是治安上面的一個頑疾所以高度再犯率它凸顯出現在的矯正教化還有出獄之後的追蹤體系是不是對詐欺犯沒有產生有效的嚇阻作用所以現在打詐的政策不斷的經濟但是預防再犯我認為這個是可以解決的因為我們擁有他的過去的犯罪的記錄我們知道他過去犯罪的手法我們有他的資料之後甚至我們可以查出他背後的犯罪集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].start |
33244.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].end |
33261.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[1018].text |
所以我們可以在源頭管理環節上面來去阻止這樣子的犯罪所以說我們要切入這個再犯率的核心怎麼樣去降低這樣子的再犯率所以這個是一個很重要的一個數據這個統計上面我想部長可不可以跟我們講一下未來你的這個經濟方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].start |
33263.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].end |
33291.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[1019].text |
我想目前的大部分的這些的詐欺犯他在整個判決確定的一個刑度大部分都集中在一年或者是到這個是車手部分如果說單純的那個人頭賬戶這邊都是一年以下居多我想這個有他社會的一個原因我想會參加詐團一定是一個觀念偏差尤其是金錢官的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].start |
33292.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].end |
33306.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[1020].text |
觀念的一個篇章那我想在整個一個預防面的如果說有道監獄裡面我想這部分我想我們再加強再做一個教化另外在那個我也關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].start |
33306.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].end |
33333.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[1021].text |
这个再犯率的问题事实上我们那个诈欺危害防治条例对这种在我们怕有这种所以在一个长期比较诈骗人多的这种的刑度比较高的这种我们这个在假释这部分我们新的法律是规定是三分之二出犯了出犯三分之二那另外累犯的话是四分之三如果三犯的话就没有假释的这种的优惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].start |
33334.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].end |
33347.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[1022].text |
那我想執行刑期的一個長團與活並不代表就是說一個教化的一個成功那我想我們這個委員關心的這預防再犯這個教化這部分我們再跟矯正署我們再來做一個經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].start |
33348.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].end |
33370.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[1023].text |
賀祖利然後剛才部長說會提供給我們這些統計數字我想說有這個詐騙前科犯加上這個再犯我們這些多一點數字出來之後有數字我們才可以做一個數字的政策導向政策工具才可以進去那另外委員關心的就是為什麼再犯因為再犯的話我想會再檢討那個言語對 我們先從 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].start |
33371.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].end |
33388.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[1024].text |
因為我現在手上沒有炸雞犯的有前科的犯罪這幾年的波動我們知道這個之後我們就大概知道說可能我們可以專注在已經有犯罪紀錄所以包含這一個全國的炸雞犯的資料庫或者是高風險的資料庫我們有沒有建制 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].start |
33389.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].end |
33410.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[1025].text |
這部分我們再來了解有沒有考慮堅持一下我為什麼這麼講的原因是因為你知道現在我們來思考一下就是說這應該有吧有 這個可以國際出來我要講這句話的原因是說全國的這個詐欺犯的資料庫我為什麼講這件事情包含我們現在ATM有限額包含我們這個高度的銀行監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].start |
33411.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].end |
33436.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[1026].text |
這種高度的銀行監管其實國內外許多媒體都在對台灣的銀行體制有做出一些 頗有微詞比方說他們說對居留者的移民對銀行與保險公司的過度監管開設台灣銀行這樣非常困難即使有配偶也往往需要經過漫長還有繁瑣的流程為什麼會這樣因為我們要防堵詐欺 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].start |
33436.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].end |
33454.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[1027].text |
為什麼要防堵詐欺來影響一般民眾呢這就是我們的癥結點就是說怎麼樣針對這些已經有犯罪前科的已經是再犯 三犯那這些人都還持續的沒有辦法來去嚇阻他們第一個是沒辦法嚇阻第二個是沒辦法教化 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].start |
33455.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].end |
33479.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[1028].text |
那我們接下來的做法是什麼這個部分我想部長能夠給我們一個更好的一個說明的方式執行完畢的這些的受刑人這個就是進入到更生人的這個身份那這部分受保護管束或者是假設屬於受保護管束的以及更生這部分我們再來努力再從那個柔性司法這邊我們再努力來協助他互歸社會那我想一個會介紹的可能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].start |
33480.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].end |
33505.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[1029].text |
金錢官的一個偏差或者是因為迫於他的沒有收入或者家庭的一個貧困等等那我想會檢討這個檢視他的原因因為我們在矯正署裡面我相信也有一些的社公司心理師我想如果說對有在犯或者出犯的在監執行我們會試圖去了解他的為什麼要犯罪的原因我想這個在一個刑案的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].start |
33506.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].end |
33521.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[1030].text |
之後他會更容易去把它表達出來好 我們一起找方法好不好 部長好 謝謝就是我們提出一個對岸來那我們有數據那我們就可以來去看數據有沒有變化院長我們接下來就是來討論這一次的打炸的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].start |
33522.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].end |
33547.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[1031].text |
這次的數據剛才其實院長都有提到有一些數據的調整的原因是因為警政署從113年9月起他將情案發生的計算方式由一案一發生改為受領報案被害人一發生數所以說我剛剛看到專報上面有用圖表畫了一個回歸線他說詐騙案件是長期每月減350件 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].start |
33550.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].end |
33565.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[1032].text |
數字下降當然是好事但是如果只看下降趨勢沒有做比較或者是沒有對照組就沒有辦法去排除其他的原因我們看到只有2013年8月到2014年7月但是如果說我們之前的數據都在的話只是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].start |
33566.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].end |
33589.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[1033].text |
方式不同 我們還是可以做一些跟過去的對照因為打炸這個東西不可能一年就見效它必須要有一個數據作為一個佐證那來去告訴我們說比方說你說季節性的波動那這樣的統計解讀在科學上和政策上站不站得住腳那我們要的是政策效果政策效果把它做了之後那數據上面有沒有反應出來所以這不是單一的趨勢線 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].start |
33591.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].end |
33618.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[1034].text |
院長 行政院手上一定會有一個完整的歷史數據跟區域數據我們就可以用更嚴謹的方法例如用雙重差異的分析比較政策前後不同地區的變化差異當我們排除外部因素之後我們就可以知道我們的政策工具有沒有真正發揮作用所以如果未來我們下次報告提供分析的時候我希望這個時長再長一點因為3月跟4月 4月跟5月5月跟6月的比較我剛剛看到很多委員在做比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].start |
33619.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].end |
33646.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[1035].text |
對我來說這個統計上面的意義或者是政策上面實施之後有沒有顯著的差別我認為這沒有辦法做出有效的分辨所以在數據上面變化的這個趨勢我還是希望說未來行政院上面可以給我們一個更完整的數據這樣我們才知道說我們的政策到底有沒有用比方說剛才其實有很多委員都提到這個第17條得檢刑的這個要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].start |
33649.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].end |
33676.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[1036].text |
這個東西到底是有沒有辦法嚇阻這個炸雞飯剛才有很多的討論說之後司法院跟法務部討論之後很快的可能會有調整等等沒有關係 我們都是希望有調整但是有調整之後會不會有更好的效果我們就要用數據來去佐證我想這些都是今天講的這個目的接下來想要討論一下用智慧化的管理來去降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].start |
33678.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].end |
33690.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[1037].text |
炸機阻斷上次打炸中心的執密有提到調降ATM的限額沒關係 我們打炸中心的代表都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].start |
33692.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].end |
33714.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[1038].text |
有提到說調降這個限額是為了阻斷詐騙的金流這個決心我們是絕對去支持的但是一個好的政策就如同我剛剛說到的不要因為防堵犯罪來去犧牲守法民眾的日常便利現在的做法是不是無形中反而造成那些守法的民眾的不便 |
| transcript.whisperx[1039].start |
33716.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[1039].end |
33732.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[1039].text |
我們並不是要求無上限或者是特別調高而是要回歸正常限制的措施應該是例外而不是作為常態所以說比方說你會清楚的風險管控你又導入用戶行為的模式那執行的識別異常的提臉 |
| transcript.whisperx[1040].start |
33733.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[1040].end |
33757.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[1040].text |
那如果說用戶的行為平常一個月才領一萬的今天突然要領十萬那我們要自動或者是就來調整他的這個提領的上限而不是說一概的全面的把提領的上限來去做調整我想請教一下像這樣子偵測用戶長期嚴重不符合的高風險停款行為即時自動的提領上限在技術上可不可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[1041].start |
33759.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[1041].end |
33783.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[1041].text |
這個跟委員報告一下有關前陣子很多銀行他不是把全面停掉他對他的宿存客戶就是數位開戶的宿存客戶就是其實他是比較特別如果前陣子委員有注意到的話就對於所謂用我們自然能憑證去單憑自然能憑證去開戶的時候因為這很明顯的他比一般的賬戶這個詐騙的機率高了將近有八九倍這樣對 |
| transcript.whisperx[1042].start |
33785.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[1042].end |
33809.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[1042].text |
就各種不同的開戶數所以他們先啟動一個風險控管機制那我馬上也跟銀行講說你不可以用去風險的經驗所以你要開始找到一個平衡以後逐步開放像剛才講的他們在九月的時候就會逐步按照這個方式來做因為突然發現說大量使用這樣的這個方式進行詐騙所以我們必須他們就啟動他們自發性的風險管理機制來進行那我們也 |
| transcript.whisperx[1043].start |
33810.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[1043].end |
33834.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[1043].text |
跟銀行提醒說不可以全面這樣來做他們也開始會按照這來做我要提醒這件事情的原因是因為剛才我也提到了現在台灣已經走向世界我們的產業也是走向國際化有越來越多旅台的其他國籍的人士商務人士台灣遇到的商務問題通常就是在銀行上面的問題我們不能為了綁賭放罪來犧牲這些民眾的權益謝謝委員這問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[1044].start |
33851.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[1044].end |
33855.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[1044].text |
好 謝謝陳冠廷委員的資訊也謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1045].start |
33856.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[1045].end |
33880.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[1045].text |
謝謝報言會 我們本日排定質詢的委員均已經質詢完畢非常感謝卓院長以及相關部會首長的列席答詢先來做以下決定一 將各委員會發言紀錄及書面質詢函送行政院請就未答覆的部分予以書面答覆二 已提出這書面質詢尚未登載公報者一律補刊 |
| transcript.whisperx[1046].start |
33882.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[1046].end |
33890.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[1046].text |
包園會八月十九號星期二上午九點我們繼續開會進行全額撥付一百一四年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[1047].start |
33892.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[1047].end |
33913.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[1047].text |
對地方政府之一般性補助款及援助民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜專案報告並被質詢今天再一次感謝我們劉淑冰委員我們林楚英委員一起參與我們今天的專案報告再一次謝謝卓院長 各部會首長我們現在休息 |