| IVOD_ID |
168700 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168700 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-22T10:23:23+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-22T10:35:48+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:25 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5b5880b40c5769f18725ba5d8c61a9b2f38d440c98c629e7dfea45507174d07908f75701a873fd4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:23:23 - 10:35:48 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長、國家科學及技術委員會、交通部、經濟部、內政部、農業部、衛生福利部、國家發展委員會就「我國氣候變遷調適現況檢討與全球調適目標接軌之推動情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部主管預算案。(公務及非營業特種基金預算案)
三、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款環境部主管部分預算。
四、審查環境部函送財團法人環境資源研究發展基金會等4家財團法人115年度預算書案。
【預算案僅詢答，115年4月30日下午5時截止收案】
【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】
【4月22日及23日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席好 我們要請彭部長有請彭部長邱委員好部長好這兩天大家為了這個馬鈴薯的事情吵翻天我想請教部長農業部或行政院在決定按照美國要求的放寬馬鈴薯進口標準之前有沒有跟環境部來討論或者是評估這個決定對台灣的水質跟土壤會不會有什麼影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.389 |
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報告委員這個我沒有參與那我們是不是請農業部或是我們應該這個不是我只是問說你環境部有沒有參與沒有沒有馬鈴薯這個那我再請問就是說昨天卓榮泰院長在備詢的時候他說政府會負責做到每一顆馬鈴薯都經過檢查那言下之意就是說除了逐批檢驗之外他還要逐顆檢查部長你聽完這句話你覺得很感動還是會覺得心驚膽跳 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
64.949 |
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包委因為我不是馬鈴薯的專業我吃馬鈴薯那好你是環境的專業嘛那聽起來院長這樣講很有決心那當然我覺得這是先不管他做得到做不到啦那而且這是一個非常巨大的環境監測的一個黑洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.787 |
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88.031 |
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那我用算了一下就是說去年台灣從美國進口的8.2萬噸的馬鈴薯當基礎那以中型馬鈴薯一顆150公克來計算換算下來一年有5億4781萬顆馬鈴薯進到台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.317 |
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110.655 |
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那按照國際物流跟美國的USDA的官方數據長途運輸必然有10%的生理發芽率這代表這一年會有5478萬顆馬鈴薯會因為發芽而必須被剔除 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.961 |
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134.916 |
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那這五千多萬顆累積起來就是八千兩百一十七公噸的廢棄物那一般在我們在路上看到那種黃色垃圾車一次大概再四噸左右啦那八千兩百一十七公噸的發芽廢棄物在一年內要清運完畢平均每天大概五到六車 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
137.233 |
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165.833 |
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總共要2054台這個垃圾池才能清理完那每顆檢查每顆剔除的這些廢料那未來會遇到的狀況是什麼就是發芽的馬鈴薯含有高濃度的這個龍蝟鹼那另外為了強行壓制發芽美國要用這個ERG美國常用的ERG就是CIPC的這個ERG那台灣對CIPC的殘留上限是30ppm那第一個問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
167.154 |
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181.801 |
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剔除的馬鈴薯是農業廢棄物還是事業廢棄物應該是農業廢棄物你怎麼追蹤留下這是農業部在主責那他不用跟你談啦他要進粉花爐還是要掩埋 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.06 |
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208.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個是農業部在主責啦你環境部應該有意見吧不是農業部說什麼你就什麼啊因為現在還沒有進到這個農業廢棄物的這個階段所以也沒有那麼大量所以目前以這樣換算是這樣子啊他如果說要進來的話他確實就有這個量啊啊你們環境部竟然沒有你們沒有討論說未來要怎麼去處理這些廢棄物嗎沒有因為這個是主責還是農業部跟我這樣講啊他如果先拿去燒的話會怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.156 |
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224.662 |
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燒的話它其實這個不用燒啦這個其實它是一種生物的生物質質的這個觀念可以它分解到土壤裡土壤會自行分解嗎不行不行這個其實還是要配合一個生物質那怎麼辦呢那汙染的土壤 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
229.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
253.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
臺灣地不大欸應該有機會做一些生殖能或是最後最後不得已才要焚燒啦現在可以做一些利用可以做別的利用可以做什麼利用基本上它是一個類似生物質的廢棄物例如說做成SRF做更好的分解或是做成肥料或是各方面的處理但是這個我不是這個專業可能因為它沒辦法分解啊它的毒素還在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
264.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你去做其他肥料怎麼辦那不是又感染到其他的農作物裡面那怎麼辦你們有沒有想過這麼嚴重的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
267.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
293.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
報告委員這個一般來講就是說農業部他們有訂了一個農業廢棄物的再利用的辦法所以這個可以再利用優先會先可以再利用嗎再利用一般會去用比如說是用把它做成最差的就做成堆肥堆肥那你毒素會毒素會分解掉這個會分解掉因為他會慢慢的會慢慢的去慢慢的是多久慢慢的這個要看你不要騙人你這個講話要負責任他 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
301.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
最差最差最後才會送去焚化爐你焚化爐裡面我剛剛有算過它含水量是80%那80%的話你這樣會造成這個焚化爐的溫度不夠那就會產生黛奧辛 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
313.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
332.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你們懂嗎?有沒有去解決想過這個問題跟委員報告會不會產生代替耗鋅要看裡面有沒有含有氯的成分因為是氯的成分才是代替耗鋅的一個源頭之一所以在焚化爐它的溫度都至少都850以上所以它有足夠的成分解掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
333.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
352.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們還有這個進口8.2萬公噸的馬鈴薯如果這些都帶有上限30ppm的這個農藥那表示說這有2456公465公斤的這個CIPC的藥劑會分布在這馬鈴薯的表面那在洗的時候那這些水要流去哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
356.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
366.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們的污水處理廠有沒有針對這個CIPC這種歐盟禁藥來建立任何阻攔或淨化機制嗎我們請雄寒署副署長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
368.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
391.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
報告委員,我們就農業廢棄資源的部分,一般來講農業廢棄物在農業部定有在利用管理方式,那我們常見的方式不是先拿去燒比如說我舉個例子,即便是壁石豬等等也好,它都會有一些畫質的規定所以像這個案子是植物性的,我們稱作是植物殘渣,它會分解堆肥等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
393.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我跟你講我現在是提醒你們就是說按照原來的機制只要驗到發芽就是整批退運那用新的資金的話那農業部你這個開門放毒進來那你現在是環境部你要幫農業部去擦屁股所以我希望這個部長你是環境的守護者你有理由把你的立場告訴我們卓榮泰院長這個東西到時候不是搞得人仰馬翻 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你一顆一顆檢查我看不出他的能力要在哪裡來這不是隨便亂講的再來就是部長我們重啟核酸我聽了很多次那不需要環評嗎目前按照現在的法規是不需要那如果接下來要做SMR環評法規會改嗎會改法規嗎SMR就要環評 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
444.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
468.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你會因為他來改嗎不會因為那個是屬於新的一個能源的設施按照現在的這個環評的法規的規定就是要做環評好那經濟部和安會4年要花8億去研究法律是要研究哪一國的法律基本上他們應該是因為這個不是我的職責他們應該是研究說新的SMR的新的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
470.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
498.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他現在又說確認國際輕視這個SMR的商用品在運轉無虞經過國外授權生產預估國內最快2035年就會發出這個第一度電那所以國科會他們在四年五百億的這個淨零科技創新方案裡面包含SMR也會支持沒錯吧那經濟部國科會的意思就是希望我們台灣不走研發而且要走國外授權的意思是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
499.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
525.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
對 我知道 因為他們給的錢也不多啦不是說我們自己台灣自己做SMR應該是看國外有什麼好的選擇全球的輕式SNR目前已在商轉的國家只有中國跟俄羅斯那還在開發的主要國家是美國 英國 加拿大所以你們要找誰授權你會找中國還是俄羅斯應該是會找一個比較沒有紅色供應鏈的地方那其他都還在開發怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
527.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
548.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
基本上我們就在看說因為現在最快的SMR可能是2029年所以還是美國其實還包含了像加拿大我這樣講我們台灣明明有一流的這個核能科研人才你們卻不去栽培他們我覺得這個是有點可惜而且也是這個放棄我們自己的權益未來把我們的這個能源自主的實質的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
549.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
像是核心技術是看人的臉色發電設備是等候授權那末端核廢料自己處理的這個斷頭的概念我覺得我們買到的不是不只是電力而是一個永遠無法自拔連維修都要那個跟燃料都要被遠端監控的一個產業你懂我意思嗎這是能源殖民體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
572.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
593.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以最好的是用綠能所以我覺得我們要做是不是我們自己的人才自己要培養不過這個SMR需要龐大的資金跟技術那以台灣現在我們對於這種大型的能源我們大概都是只是使用者而言所以我們還是建議是積極的發展綠能還是最好的做法好那最後一個問題我請那個那個什麼經濟部經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
600.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
625.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
水電都是經濟部管的那在民生用水跟當成備用電源之間做取捨的時候經濟部的立場是哪個優先?水跟電哪個優先?當然是水嘛那為什麼水利署要幫台電備出說發電不耗水重容高品質的民生水流向大海這個水利法規定你們可以讓用民生水直接排入大海嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
626.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
655.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
其實我們的耗水會的那一個我們的耗水會事實上是針對有台電的話他是沒有針對水資源有浪費掉他只是在高位能的落差而已然後呢那個水那個你像我就以翡翠水庫來講他的體積是很大的嘛可是他底下的那個叫什麼那個那個那個下游接水的那個植檀宴是吧植檀宴他就一個小臉盆大概400萬噸而已你們水排下去之後他他的水去哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
656.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
683.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他的水他就會進進水廠有的就會進水廠直接直接進水廠直接進水廠他不會直接排到大海去對他有的有收就是會進水廠的那萬一水廠水廠裝得下嗎你為了發電你有想過這個問題嗎其實整個耗水會他用的事實上他應該是台電要跟水水庫他們要去談因為耗水會是針對有浪費水的這一塊來針所以他對發電業這是沒有來針的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
686.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
715.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
對啊但是你現在是水資源的問題啊我們現在談的是水資源的問題你要發電我們沒有意見你們這樣但是你要想到水資源這樣子發完電之後你說流到水廠水廠那邊能夠負載能夠負荷這麼大的水量嗎這個就要看那剩下的水去哪裡了剩下的水一定往外排嘛它一定是溢出嘛對不對對啊那浪費的水那這個損失要跟誰要啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
716.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
741.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個事實上這個是應該是台電要跟水水水護他們要去談你經濟部不管嗎我們署裡面對用耗水會的這一個有沒有就是耗水會他不是當做一個你真用的一個條件好啦因為時間的關係我不想講那麼多那你們自己好好去跟台電跟跟這個這個肥水水護這邊你們做好溝通這個水資源很珍貴不要浪費好不好是謝謝邱正軍委員發言 |