| IVOD_ID |
168589 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168589 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-15T12:18:33+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-15T12:48:45+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:12 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ec77822e2e6eae3904c893aec4c71ae8ea785098ebfecd5e6b800412f8d870b315cf85df7fa038c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林淑芬 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:18:33 - 12:48:45 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院經貿談判辦公室、經濟部、農業部、教育部就「美國貿易代表署發布《2026年各國貿易評估報告》（2026NTE）提及技術性貿易壁壘或食品安全檢驗與動植物防疫檢疫SPS）壁壘之豬肉、牛肉與牛肉產品、β促進劑的最大殘留容許量等各項食農相關產品及技術之要求，我國所承諾之措施、移除產品禁令或取消輸入口岸檢疫程序等，並特就其中開放切片馬鈴薯帶芽（或腐爛或發黴）仍能整批進口與其敦促撤銷基改食品進校園，對我國食品安全造成之衝擊與因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
邀請衛生福利部、農業部、行政院消費者保護處就「寵物用藥新制上路在即，犬貓及非經濟動物急重症醫療銜接、藥品流向管理、飼主取得可近性與消費權益保障之整體配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
6.188 |
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今年以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
20.802 |
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46.872 |
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台大醫院研究大樓在1月29號台大醫院東址大樓在2月24號三軍總醫院松山分院在4月3號這兩家醫院有三起火災事件發生火災然後松山分院還是清明節連假的第一天然後台北市消防局獲報後立即提升為B級的這個火警 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
出動了53名的警消前往救援16分鐘以後撲滅火勢然後大家發現醫護啦民眾受影響大家都就地避難那我現在要談這個是因為啊2026今年到現在才多久的時間就有 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
70.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
90.559 |
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這個都教學型醫院大型的醫院然後火警見報那台大還兩次那我們在講說這樣的火警都不是偶發的還不是偶發的單一事件你看從台大醫院說他們是建築施工然後設備安全火災預警 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
91.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
109.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
然後這個應變管理大家都開始睜大眼睛在檢視這些事情很難以想像就是說怎麼會像台大醫院東址是外部六樓的外部施工導致煙霧煙霧會跑到醫院裡面然後造成12樓13樓觸發警報外面的煙霧跑到大道裡面觸發警報 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個不是非同小可的事情在這種狀況裡面緊鄰大作然後他也不是一次今年就兩次雖然沒有人員傷亡但是依照醫療事故預防及爭議處理法的第35條專案主管機關應該要組成專案小組做出這個調查報告請問你們有啟動調查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
149.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
171.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
跟委員說明因為那個應該還不能夠列入我們這個醫療事故正義處理預防跟正義處理法的這個定義啦那個他還沒有屬於叫做醫療事故第315條他是事故預防或危害公共衛生及安全或有危害之餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
172.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
200.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
但是他前面的那個法規在前第三條他在名詞定義上他有提到那你說中央還沒有構成要件那地方的火警調查火災調查原因是什麼這應該要因為他還是可能的一個公安事件所以按照醫療法本身他還是這個地方要去介入了解我們來追蹤這個事情很嚴重今年就兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
201.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那三種的是控制的病房 控制的病房沒有人大白忙 不明原因起火這大事建築物的外部施工焊接引起火花 然後觸發警報控制的病房不明原因起火 這是正常的嗎這絕對都不正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
244.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那地方政府的調查你們對他的狀況怎麼樣我想聽起來好像你還是沒有去問沒有特別去沒有掌握嘛但是不是每次火警都要等到有人死亡我們才要去把它當成是重大事件去關注不是因為你必須見為知著啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
247.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
263.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以你從這裡就看到這個醫院醫院的管理有沒有問題一次兩次 台大耶然後現在講說因為醫院跟一般建築不同裡面是臥床的病人重症的病人行動不便者一旦失火 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
他的風險不是一般的公共場所可以來相比你的所以我現在跟你講說兩次然後都是教學型醫院然後控制的病房會起火這事情很嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
284.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
310.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
跟委員說明確實因為台灣很多醫院也相當老舊台大醫院也是他已經很久的我們聽不下去老舊老舊不要提出來談再怎麼老舊也要確定這個醫療場所裡面的安全是更勝於其他公共場所的沒有錯就如同委員所提到的因為醫院裡面的住院病人相對的避難能力是比較差的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
311.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以他所需要要求的防火相當的措施要更高所以我們去年開始就有一個輔導計畫你們的輔導計畫是什麼輔導計畫我們輔導當然是先從比較小型的醫院因為他們自己的能力比較不足所以我們先去輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
360.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那這個大型醫院的話而你們輔導計畫的內容主要是什麼核心的那個點是什麼我們的輔導當然包含第一個就是它的防火設施還有它的這個那個建築安全它的設計那以及應變能力那些大概這些因為去年年底剛好監察院也通過糾正屏東縣政府衛生局東港政公所衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
362.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他們在年底去年12月26號糾正了你們地方政府主要的疏失以安泰醫院為例他合法的面積大概一半一半47.2都是非法的違建而且在2005年就開始了在那種狀況裡面地方政府放任違建醫院在違建內從事醫療使用到連 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
390.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
407.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
到去年 監察院去年2025年10月去履刊的時候現場仍然是違建 持續在使用當中現在政府也沒有依法勒令停止使用也沒有依法採取斷水斷電的處置火災的風險不是偶發 而是結構性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
414.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個問題消防署統計全國469家醫院在2005年到2024年之間一共發生過98件的火災起火的原因都以電氣因素最多佔56.1%起火的地點以機房居多佔13.3%而安泰醫院就是因為電氣因素加上機房起火 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
443.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
462.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
死了8個人 死了8個人我這個都是監察院的監察報告全國醫院評鑑的制度也出現了系統性的失靈我說的也是監察院的調查報告監察院指出 全國有81家的醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
463.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
479.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
屬於你講的中小型醫院類似安泰醫院他們都涉及違法擴充樓地板面積應列管的違建醫院竟然其中有70家這些都違建要列管的然後都還在營業的81家裡面有70家通過了衛福部的醫院評鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
496.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
523.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
通過了醫院評鑑你們衛福部都給他評鑑通過所以顯然可以知道你們衛福部的對醫院公共安全的評鑑存在著系統性的為師而讓所有看病的這些民眾置於風險當中所以你動搖了人家對你們監督機制這種評鑑機制的信任 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
525.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
543.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
81間有70間通過你們的醫院評鑑你怎麼做 何感想跟委員說明 當然在這個評鑑的過程當中基於這個委員的專業啦他不見得有辦法看得那麼細所以通常在評鑑的同時會會同衛生局我現在不在看你們的委員看不看得這麼細啦現在監察院說你們81間都是這個有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
553.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
568.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
連七十經理也是讓他評鑑合格這不是你們有問題嗎然後你們被點出來的四大缺失喔他們簡直就透過安泰醫院這個評鑑上的問題他點出你們四個問題第一個問題你們衛福部辦理安泰醫院的評鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
577.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
592.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個早在2005、2007年就存在了結果你們的這種違建還在一半以上都是違建然後你們在2011年、2017年通通都繼續通過評鑑都通過第二個你們在2024年 這個在2011、2017都評鑑通過 合格喔合格喔在2024年他要辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
606.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
632.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個評鑑2024年8月要辦理評鑑評鑑委員在上面清楚的寫出他的意見他說公安消防有缺失2024年的8月評鑑委員說公安消防有缺失結果呢當年10月就發生火災了就8條人命了但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
633.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
658.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你們安消防有缺失有同時通報縣政府去解決去改善嗎有橫向聯繫嗎答案是沒有在8月的時候就說有缺失沒有通知縣政府不要說當時沒有到現在可能也沒有啦是不是沒有沒有啦評鑑的時候都是會統衛生局你有通知縣政府說裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
667.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
692.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員認為上面有公安消防的缺失衛生局他們不會知道你們的委員當時審查的意見所以在這個裡面依據你們醫院評鑑基準第1.5章安全的環境和設備裡面有講所以你們應將員工工作環境病人就醫環境的安全納入考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
693.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
713.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
在規劃院建築和相關硬體設施時就應該把這些納入考量而且要審視是不是符合法規的要求如果發現有違反相關的法定規定應立即改善然查上開基準欠缺呼應條文和查核的方式沒有將核心的公安事項列入評鑑指標當中你們沒有把 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
716.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
730.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
公安的核心指標列入評鑑指標制度顯有缺漏這不是我講的這個是監察院講的監察院又說你們的評鑑人員雖然有醫學公共衛生和管理的專業背景但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
731.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
759.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在醫療設施設備安全評鑑時考評存在建築硬體配電器消防安全等缺漏醫院的評鑑人員如不具備建築公安消防等專業也沒有看到評鑑時要求受評的醫院要提供上開的證明文件通通都沒有辦法評鑑所以你們評鑑淪於紙上作業居多就公安公共安全上真的是沒有那個作用 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
761.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
789.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那只有台北市衛生局在要求轄區醫院在考評的時候台北市政府會要求他們要提供醫院的建築出圖證明供衛生局現場集合我的意思是說地方政府人家有人這麼做那我現在在講喔監察院不是只有糾正地方政府也糾正了衛福部要求衛福部消防署國土署要檢討強化醫院的建築安全管理等等還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
790.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
816.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
他們現在到現在去年12月糾正到現在然後也明確指出了你們應該要修正評鑑制度請問你們衛福部到底修正了沒有好跟委員說明喔第一個在這個評鑑的時候呢那麼多另外有消防安檢那個是由地方的主管機關要去做檢核的就是聯合的概念我現在講的是監察院要求你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
818.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
831.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
監察院要求你們在評鑑的時候不是什麼都是由評鑑委員來評啦我現在在鑑主法規的合法消防安檢的部分本來就有地方的補管機關人家地方政府隨時就可以檢的啦我沒錯啦我現在問你的問題不是這個問題你答非所問你不要轉移焦點我問你的問題是你的評鑑委員在評鑑的時候就發現他有公安消防的疑慮你們沒有同時通報地方政府沒有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
847.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
852.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第二個監察院說你們在做醫院的評鑑的時候也要把公安的這個消防的這一些確保安全的這些項目要納入評鑑的機制裡面所以評鑑的基準有沒有納入核心的公安事項評鑑的委員的組成有沒有補到建築消防配電的這些專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
875.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
893.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
受評的醫院 如果沒有那些委員的話受評的醫院應備的文件有沒有增加建築 公安 消防等相關證明我問你是監察院都給你們糾正了 到現在四個月過去了這些通通改進了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
894.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
901.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
在這個剛剛委員關心的就是我們的評鑑的報告給地方政府這個我們會做啦就是把它我們過去就是有給衛生局啦就是這個評鑑的結果報告會給衛生局作為它未來督導考核的查核項目之一啦所以這個部分橫向的部分我們做了不是啦你們的委員都發現有問題了一定要通報地方政府馬上進場去檢查如果2024年的8月 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
924.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
939.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你們這麼做的話或許那10月發生的火災就不會有這8條人命的去無辜的傷亡跟我們說明就是說那個時間的落差是不是可以縮短一點我們是前車之鑑慘痛的經驗過去是最後評定完之後再把這個評鑑的結果報告會給衛生局 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
949.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
950.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我現在不是在談個案而已我是從這個個案要跟你講制度而監察院都糾正了你們的制度全面性的改善了沒有就這麼簡單問你們全面性的制度改變了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
964.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
980.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第一個就是我們把這個報告早一點送 早一點送給地方不要等到那個評定完之後啦那第二個就是那個評鑑的標準裡面來優化把這些納進來 這個我們會再做你們評定完要多久才會評定完 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
982.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
991.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
通常你們評鑑要評定多久才會評定完怎麼會分批啦 不過大概都是評定完那個叫實地評鑑 你實地評鑑完要多久大概都會幾個月後才會決定會議我問你最具體的 為什麼我要問這個問題是因為你們2024年的8月去評鑑東港的安泰醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1005.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1032.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
10月3號就發生大火 死了8個人然後呢 發現一半都是偽章建築那請問這樣子事情過了多久了從你8月評鑑 2024年評鑑到現在2026年的4月了已經過了幾個月了請問你安泰醫院的評鑑到底是合格還是不合格所以他當年沒有合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1033.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1048.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
就要重評我在你們的網頁上查詢不到啊就是還沒有2024年的8月你就去評鑑啊到現在你說他不合格還是合格來他就是要重評啊 他要重新評鑑啊什麼叫重新評鑑就是2024年那一年他沒有合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1060.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1071.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
你們對於人民知的權利真的是認為都不需要給我們嗎不合格然後不用讓我們知道嗎你說他不合格他的網頁說他合格耶那是之前吧他之前的話現在還可以掛在網頁上嗎他說他們合格耶來看你們的查詢系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1089.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1102.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
你們的醫院評鑑你去查詢都查不到不合格你只公佈合格那查不到不合格那人民是要知道他是還沒評鑑還是不合格嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1105.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1117.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這個跟你們狼醫查詢系統都一樣在這裡虛晃一招你只公佈合格然後呢事實上還沒評鑑的也查不出來評鑑不合格的也查不出來你們的網頁連不合格的資訊都不公告蛤 這不用改進嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1126.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1134.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我們過去當然只公告合格名單啦啊不合格不用公告給我們知道嗎他自己的意願說他合格你說他不合格如果沒有立委在這裡質詢你人民怎麼會知道他合格還是不合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1145.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1162.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
就是過去我們都是公告合格現在呢過去是這樣現在呢我們來演我們來演繹你評鑑這個要幹嘛不就讓人民知道哪些是合格哪些是不合格嗎你不合格不公告我人民怎麼知道這間是不合格還是不合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1165.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1179.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這是包庇嘛 就是包庇嘛在你們的醫院評鑑專區網頁上東泰安泰醫院沒有任何敘述這種到底是 你說不合格還是合格不要講了啦 其實你們有改嘛其實你們公告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1190.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1202.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
在2024年10月安泰醫院大火以後以後你們修改了你們的醫院評鑑及教學醫院評鑑作業程序第11點 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1204.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1229.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
你們改了不知道是對醫院太好還是怎樣你們說放寬評鑑結果可以限期改善其實他為什麼他也不是合格也不是不合格安泰醫院現在不是合格也不是不合格經過了快要兩年了一年八個月了評鑑完到現在一年八個月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1231.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1244.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
到現在他不是合格也不是不合格因為你為他量身訂製了放寬放寬評鑑結果可以限期改善但這個限期是要限多久保定是要限多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1247.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1267.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
你們現在開放可以限期改善是要限期多久沒有啦你們可以把重大公安 病安事件納入評鑑但沒有明定一旦發生應停止或不予通過評鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1269.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1295.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
一旦但你沒有明定一旦發生問題應該要停止或者是不予通過你就說可以給他限期改善你就允許他改善嘛所以你不會判定他合格還是不合格表面上你們是說新增了重大公安病安事件的處理規定實際上卻是把重大事件納入先改善再決定是否不合格的框架 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1296.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1318.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
你不是加嚴啦你有可能是在架空和弱化你的評鑑的及時把關的功能讓發生重大公安或病安事件的醫院仍然有機會可以透過限期改善維持評鑑結果把重大事件納入可補正程序卻沒有同步建立明確的評定暫停還有資訊揭露和對外標示的規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1324.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1348.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
導致問題的醫院得以停留在通過跟未通過之間的模糊地帶他是合格不合格還沒有判定的狀況所以現在安泰醫院一年八個月不是合格也不是不合格因為他發生了公安事件還在限期改善你們制度面我就問你你的限期改善沒有讓人民知道他現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1350.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1370.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
在限期改善階段你在合格不合格之間如果允許他限期改善那你也要讓人民知道這家醫院現在正在限期改善你也要在法規上明定限期改善最長的時間是多少沒有人這樣子一年八個月了還在限期改善的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1374.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1390.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
你這個有三個層次的影響第一個層次對民眾知情權的不利 評鑑本來就讓我們知道他的醫療品質跟安全標準到底合格或不合格你現行的制度只有公佈合格不公佈不合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1391.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1418.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
然後發生 還修改你們的作業程序 評鑑作業程序你們允許他限期改善可是呢 你們對於發生事情裡面進入限期改善也沒有讓人民知道也沒有清楚公告目前法律跟評鑑狀態也沒有公告限期改善期間要多久民眾無法做出正確的判斷這間便宜有安全嗎 不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1419.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1443.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
第二個對主管機關責任不利因為只要不知道他是合格不合格或是陷起改善狀況主管機關就持續用 尚在處理當中尚未評定來延後表態也不必立即公告不合格也不必立刻說明該醫院是否仍得對外宣稱自己具有某種評鑑資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1445.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1461.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
都不知道都是醫院自己說我合格了你們政府都不用說明第三個對醫院形成有利的模糊空間然後醫院就利用這一種空窗期主張我沒有不合格喔因為我還在限期改善喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1462.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1478.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
甚至還可以說我過去的平健光環或是社會的印象它還上面寫我合格所以對這種發生重大事件的醫院來講保留了很大的操作的空間所以現在怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1479.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1498.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
安泰醫院我現在問你安泰醫院他可以適用你們20他2024年評鑑不合格2025年你們修改了評鑑作業程序他現在可以適用你們2025年的評鑑程序然後給他限期改善嗎舉這個醫院來講是這樣子把我們說評鑑制度當 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1506.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1518.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
當裝飾嗎?他用2024年的評鑑然後你2025年修改規定他又2024年評鑑沒算 要用2025年的作業程序來重評給他機會 每間便宜都這樣你們的評鑑這是裝飾用的嗎?不對 這樣對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1526.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1547.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這個限期改善的部分我們會再督促主管機關啦來啦你那主管單位在哪裡限期改善限期是限多久一年八個月還要限嗎限期你們沒想過你們的限期改善是多久嗎2024年8月評鑑到現在還在限期改善連合格不合格都沒有辦法判定他對外說他合格啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1553.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1558.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
到底你們現在是判定他合格還不合格還是在限期改善當中醫院評鑑合格是與否合格不合格他醫院自己說我合格你們網頁找不到也沒有公佈他們沒有違反他們這樣做他們沒有違反相關規定嗎我今天不是要跟他針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1584.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1596.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
安泰醫院這個個案 而是要問你監察院已經指出全國有81家像安泰醫院一樣的列管的 違建的醫院81家70家通過評鑑而這些狀況都有可能會跟安泰一樣有公安的疑慮而你們說他們評鑑合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1611.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1617.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
你到底要不要正面的去面對你們評鑑制度失靈的責任啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1619.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1647.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
然後再來 當你們2024年8月在評鑑安泰的時候評鑑委員已經在公文裡面寫下他的評鑑意見 寫下公安消防缺失沒有同時通報地方政府 地方政府不知道這樣的評鑑制度有預警功能嗎 沒有所以8月之後的10月發生大火 死了8條人命 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1649.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1676.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
再來當醫院發生重大公安或病安事件以後你現在修改你的評鑑作業程序評鑑結果沒有判定合格也沒有判定不合格就停留在長期停留在現期改善當中民眾的風險要依據什麼沒有資訊不知道任何狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1678.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1684.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
然後民眾無從判斷風險所以我們用這個個案來看你的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1686.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1708.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
你立即公佈81家 你把資料給我們 81家列管的違建的醫院到底是哪81家 給我們知道然後你的醫院評鑑合格公告出來 不合格也一樣公告出來你的限期改善也要公告出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1709.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1738.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
然後你的制度面限期改善是限多久最多一個月兩個月三個月已經夠多了如果不行的話就是不合格不要這樣子安泰醫院已經限期一年八個月了一年八個月了所以在這種狀況裡面如果這樣拖下去你的評鑑制度形同虛設沒好處而且治病人的安全在高風險之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1740.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1761.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這樣補聽有辦法嗎?這方面要改跟委員說明這個有關於這個國土署所給的這個名單我們都有列管然後再進行輔導 改善我要說監察院說的80億斤啦 明年大學給我們啦 可以對不對可以可以可以 那個名單其實是國土署給我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1762.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1779.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那你再搭配你們70家評鑑合格的一併勾出來網頁公開的網頁要改進有沒有問題你們的限期改善不能限到一年八個月還在限期可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1780.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1797.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
限期改善最長一個月兩個月三個月已經夠長了你們想想看還要拖多久啊限期改善可以一直限下去嗎從合格六年評鑑一次你現在已經評鑑一年八個月以前的評鑑到現在還沒有公告不合格這樣六年已經有兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1802.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1807.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
都還在限期這個評鑑制度就沒好起來了這制度面都要改進啦好 謝謝 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-04-15T12:18:33+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-04-15T12:18:34.547000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席，是不是請石部長？ |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-04-15T12:18:34.547000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-04-15T12:18:36.094000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請石部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-04-15T12:18:36.094000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-04-15T12:18:37.641000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
林委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-04-15T12:18:37.641000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-04-15T12:18:39.188000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
部長辛苦，中午了。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-04-15T12:18:39.188000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-04-15T12:19:34.678000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
今年以來，臺大醫院研究大樓在1月29日、臺大醫院東址大樓在2月24日、三軍總醫院松山分院在4月3日，這兩家醫院有三起火災事件，三總松山分院是在清明節連假的第一天，臺北市消防局獲報後立即提升為B級火警，出動53名警消前往救援，16分鐘以後撲滅火勢，醫護、民眾受影響，大家都就地避難。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.948 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-04-15T12:19:35.118000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-04-15T12:19:41.961000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
我現在談這個是因為今年到現在才多久的時間？ |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-04-15T12:19:43.917000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-04-15T12:19:50.645000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
這些都是教學型醫院、大型醫院，結果因為火警見報，臺大還發生兩次。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-04-15T12:19:52.427000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-04-15T12:20:09.724000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
我們在想，這樣的火警不是偶發的單一事件，你看，臺大醫院說他們是建築施工的關係，所以對於設備安全、火災預警、應變管理，大家都開始睜大眼睛在檢視這些事情。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.881 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-04-15T12:20:10.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-04-15T12:20:35.333000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
很難以想像，臺大醫院東址是6樓外部施工導致煙霧跑到醫院裡面，造成12樓、13樓觸發警報，外面的煙霧大到大樓裡面觸發警報，這件事情非同小可。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.914 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-04-15T12:20:35.493000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-04-15T12:20:57.481000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
警鈴大作的狀況，他們也不是只有一次，今年就發生兩次了，雖然沒有人員傷亡，但是依照醫療事故預防及爭議處理法第三十五條，中央主管機關應該要組成專案小組，做出調查報告。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.797 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-04-15T12:20:57.701000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-04-15T12:20:57.921000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
請問你們有啟動調查嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-04-15T12:21:03.870000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-04-15T12:21:14.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
那個應該不符合醫療事故預防及爭議處理法的定義，因為它不屬於醫療事故，不過呢…… |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.657 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-04-15T12:21:14.992000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-04-15T12:21:24.175000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
第三十五條是事故預防，危害公共衛生及安全，或有危害之虞。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.84 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-04-15T12:21:25.987000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-04-15T12:21:29.909000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
但是它前面的法規，在第三條吧！ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-04-15T12:21:30.049000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-04-15T12:21:32.291000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
它在名詞定義的部分有提到醫療事故。好。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.471 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-04-15T12:21:33.191000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-04-15T12:21:39.895000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
中央認為還沒有構成要件，地方的火災調查原因是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.913 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-04-15T12:21:40.535000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-04-15T12:21:42.977000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
因為它還是屬於公安事件……對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.615 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-04-15T12:21:43.477000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-04-15T12:21:50.881000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
所以按照醫療法，地方還是要去介入了解，我們來追蹤過去…… |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-04-15T12:21:50.881000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-04-15T12:21:51.481000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
這個事情很嚴重耶！ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-04-15T12:21:51.922000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-04-15T12:21:53.382000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
今年就發生兩次。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-04-15T12:21:55.304000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:03.851000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
三總的空置病房，沒人住的病房不明原因起火，這是大事耶！ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.583 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:05.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:13.799000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
建築物的外部施工焊接引起火花，然後觸發警報，空置的病房不明原因起火，這是正常的嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:13.799000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:14.100000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
這絕對都不正常。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:17.461000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:20.924000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
地方政府的調查狀況怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:22.185000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:24.647000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
聽起來你們好像還沒有去問。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:24.647000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:25.188000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
沒有特別去…… |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:25.428000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:26.108000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
沒有掌握嘛！對。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:27.529000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:35.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
不是每次火警都要有人死亡，我們才把它當成重大事件關注，不是！ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:36.437000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:37.838000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
因為你們必須見微知著啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:41.523000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:45.008000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
從這裡，你們就能看到這個醫院的管理有沒有問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:45.008000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-04-15T12:22:46.431000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
發生一次、兩次，臺大醫院耶！ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.636 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-04-15T12:22:48.514000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:01.512000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
因為醫院和一般建築不同，裡面是臥床的病人、重症的病人、行動不便者，一旦失火，它的風險不是一般公共場所可以相比擬的。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:02.533000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:10.583000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
所以我現在要跟你說，連續發生兩次，而且都是教學型醫院，空置的病房會起火，這件事情很嚴重，不是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.69 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:10.583000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:19.252000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
你們都沒有主動去關心？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:19.252000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:25.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
確實，因為臺灣很多醫院相當老舊，臺大醫院也是，它已經是很久的建物，所以我們從去年開始…… |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.658 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:25.837000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:26.457000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
我們聽不下去！ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:26.757000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:36.865000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
老舊不是理由，再怎麼老舊，也要確定這個醫療場所的安全，它的安全更勝於其他公共場所。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.811 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:37.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:38.426000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
是，沒有錯。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:38.426000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:43.791000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
就如同委員所提到的，因為醫院裡面的住院病人，相對的，避難能力是比較差的。對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:45.912000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:48.774000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
它需要要求更高的防火措施啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.692 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:50.175000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:52.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
所以我們去年開始就提出一個輔導計畫。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:52.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:53.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
我們一開始是…… |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:52.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:53.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
你們的輔導計畫是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-04-15T12:23:53.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-04-15T12:23:56.699000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
我們的輔導當然是先從比較小型的醫院開始，因為他們自己的能力比較不足，所以我們先去輔導。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.925 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-04-15T12:24:07.246000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-04-15T12:24:08.587000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
大型醫院的話…… |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-04-15T12:24:09.007000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-04-15T12:24:11.789000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
你們輔導計畫的主要內容是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-04-15T12:24:11.789000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-04-15T12:24:14.210000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
核心的點是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-04-15T12:24:14.630000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-04-15T12:24:25.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
當然包含第一個，就是它的防火設施，還有它的建築安全、設計以及應變能力，這些是我們要注意的。好。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.805 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-04-15T12:24:25.535000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-04-15T12:24:39.681000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
因為去年年底，剛好監察院也通過糾正屏東縣政府衛生局、東港鎮公所和衛福部，他們在去年12月26日糾正你們。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.932 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-04-15T12:24:39.681000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-04-15T12:24:58.985000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
地方政府主要的疏失，以安泰醫院為例，它合法的面積大概是一半，另外的47.2%都是非法的違建，而且是2005年就開始使用了，在那種狀況之下，地方政府放任違建，醫院在違建內從事醫療使用。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.855 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-04-15T12:25:05.908000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-04-15T12:25:19.181000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
監察院去年2025年10月去履勘的時候，現場仍然持續使用違建當中，縣政府沒有依法勒令停止使用，也沒有依法採取斷水斷電的處置。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.885 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-04-15T12:25:19.202000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-04-15T12:25:20.203000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
火災的風險不是偶發，而是結構性的問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-04-15T12:25:27.090000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-04-15T12:25:30.851000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
據消防署統計，全國469家醫院，在2005年到2024年之間，一共發生過98件火災，起火的原因以電氣因素最多，占56.1%，起火的地點以機房居多，占13.3%。 |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.943 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-04-15T12:25:30.851000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-04-15T12:26:01.342000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
而安泰醫院就是因為電氣因素，加上機房起火，死了八個人，這些都是監察院的監察報告內容。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-04-15T12:26:02.042000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-04-15T12:26:10.227000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
全國醫院評鑑的制度也出現系統性的失靈，我說的也是監察院的調查報告。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-04-15T12:26:11.288000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-04-15T12:26:31.740000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
監察院指出，全國有81家醫院屬於你講的中小型醫院，類似安泰醫院，他們都涉及違法擴充樓地板面積，屬於應列管的違建醫院，其中竟然有70家是有違建要列管的，但是都還在營業。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-04-15T12:26:31.760000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-04-15T12:26:55.970000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
81家裡面有70家，通過了衛福部的醫院評鑑，衛福部都給他們評鑑通過。 |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-04-15T12:26:55.970000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-04-15T12:27:09.918000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
所以顯然可以知道，衛福部對醫院公共安全的評鑑，存在著系統性的違失，讓所有看病的民眾置於風險當中。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-04-15T12:27:11.039000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-04-15T12:27:22.874000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
你們動搖了人家對你們監督機制、評鑑機制的信任，81家當中，有70家通過你們的醫院評鑑，你做何感想？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-04-15T12:27:24.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-04-15T12:27:34.097000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
當然，在這個評鑑的過程當中，限於委員的專業，他不見得有辦法看的那麼細，所以通常在評鑑的同時，也會會同衛生局和相關的主管機關。 |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.804 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-04-15T12:27:34.297000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-04-15T12:27:35.957000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
我現在不管你們的委員看的細不細啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.812 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-04-15T12:27:35.977000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-04-15T12:27:51.181000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
現在監察院說這81家當中，70家有問題，你們也是讓他們評鑑合格，這不是你們有問題嗎？沒有…… |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-04-15T12:27:52.981000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-04-15T12:28:22.793000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
你們被點出來四大缺失，透過安泰醫院評鑑的問題，它點出你們四個問題，第一個問題，衛福部辦理安泰醫院的評鑑，這個狀況早在2005年、2007年就存在，一半以上都是違建，但是你們2011年、2017年的評鑑通通都通過。 |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.887 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-04-15T12:28:22.793000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-04-15T12:28:24.393000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
第二個，這個部分2011年、2017年都評鑑通過，是合格的喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0.684 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-04-15T12:28:39.508000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-04-15T12:29:13.982000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
2024年8月在辦理評鑑時，評鑑委員在上面清楚地寫出意見，說「公安消防有缺失」，2024年8月那次，評鑑委員說公安消防有缺失，結果當年10月就發生火災，喪失了8條人命，但是你們有針對「公安消防有缺失」通報縣政府去解決、去改善嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2026-04-15T12:29:13.982000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2026-04-15T12:29:15.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
有橫向聯繫嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2026-04-15T12:29:15.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2026-04-15T12:29:25.446000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
答案是「沒有」，在8月的時候就說有缺失卻沒有通知縣政府，不要說當時沒有，到現在可能也沒有啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0.974 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2026-04-15T12:29:26.326000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2026-04-15T12:29:26.847000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
是不是沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2026-04-15T12:29:27.767000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2026-04-15T12:29:28.507000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
沒有啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2026-04-15T12:29:29.728000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2026-04-15T12:29:30.448000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
有，評鑑的時候都是會同衛生局。 |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2026-04-15T12:29:30.848000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2026-04-15T12:29:42.597000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
你有通知縣政府說評鑑委員認為有公安消防的缺失嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0.87 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2026-04-15T12:29:43.457000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2026-04-15T12:29:50.182000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
衛生局他們不會知道你們的委員當時審查的意見啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2026-04-15T12:29:51.722000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2026-04-15T12:30:17.879000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
依據你們的醫院評鑑基準第1.5章「安全的環境和設備」，你們在規劃醫院建築和相關硬體設施時，應將員工工作環境與病人就醫環境的安全納入考量，而且要審視是不是符合相關法規的要求，如果發現有違反相關的法令規定，應立即改善。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0.773 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2026-04-15T12:30:18.540000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2026-04-15T12:31:05.953000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
「然查，上開基準欠缺呼應條文和查核的方式，沒有將核心的公安事項列入評鑑指標當中，制度顯有缺漏」，這些不是我講的，是監察院講的，監察院還說你們的評鑑人員雖然有醫學、公共衛生和管理的專業背景，但是在醫療設施設備安全評鑑時，考評存在建築硬體、配電器、消防安全等缺漏，醫院的評鑑人員如不具備建築公安消防等專業，也沒有在評鑑時要求受評的醫院提供上開的證明文件，統統都沒有辦法評鑑啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2026-04-15T12:31:05.953000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2026-04-15T12:31:28.844000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
所以你們的評鑑淪於紙上作業居多，就公共安全而言真的沒有作用，只有臺北市衛生局在考評轄區醫院的時候，臺北市政府會要求他們要提供醫院的建築書圖證明供衛生局現場稽核，我的意思是人家地方政府中是有人這麼做的。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.863 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2026-04-15T12:31:29.884000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2026-04-15T12:31:56.184000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
我要講的是監察院不是只有糾正地方政府，也糾正了衛福部，要求衛福部、消防署、國土署要檢討及強化醫院的建築安全管理等等，他們從去年12月糾正到現在，也明確指出了你們應該要修正評鑑制度，請問你們衛福部到底修正了沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2026-04-15T12:31:56.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2026-04-15T12:32:07.872000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
跟委員說明，在評鑑的時候，另外都有消防安檢，那個是由地方的主管機關要去做檢核的，就是聯合的概念…… |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0.977 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2026-04-15T12:32:08.032000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2026-04-15T12:32:11.955000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
我講的是監察院要求你們在評鑑的時候…… |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2026-04-15T12:32:12.175000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2026-04-15T12:32:19.480000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
並非什麼都是由評鑑委員來評，建築安全及消防安檢部分是否合法，本來就由地方主管機關來做，我們在評鑑的時候是聯合的。 |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0.481 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2026-04-15T12:32:19.480000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2026-04-15T12:32:23.183000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
沒有錯，人家地方政府隨時就可以檢核了，我現在問你的不是這個問題，你答非所問，不要轉移焦點。 |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2026-04-15T12:32:23.183000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2026-04-15T12:32:24.324000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
我問的問題是你的評鑑委員在評鑑的時候就發現他有公安消防的疑慮，你們有沒有同時通報地方政府？ |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
0.977 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2026-04-15T12:32:24.344000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2026-04-15T12:32:24.484000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
沒有啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2026-04-15T12:32:41.415000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2026-04-15T12:32:44.637000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
其次是監察院說你們在做醫院評鑑的時候，也要把公安消防這些確保安全的項目納入評鑑機制裡面，所以評鑑的基準有沒有納入核心的公安事項？ |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
0.951 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2026-04-15T12:32:44.637000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2026-04-15T12:32:45.737000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
評鑑委員的組成有沒有增加建築消防配電這些專業？ |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2026-04-15T12:33:10.089000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2026-04-15T12:33:18.078000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
如果沒有那些委員的話，受評的醫院應備的文件有沒有增加建築公安消防等相關證明？ |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2026-04-15T12:33:18.899000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2026-04-15T12:33:26.907000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
我問你的是，監察院都對你們糾正了，到現在4個月過去了，這些統統改進了沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2026-04-15T12:33:28.086000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2026-04-15T12:33:31.687000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
剛剛委員關心的就是我們的評鑑報告有沒有給地方政府，這個我們會做，我們過去會把這個評鑑結果報告給衛生局，作為他們未來督導考核的查核項目之一，所以橫向的部分我們做了。 |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
0.908 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2026-04-15T12:33:31.687000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2026-04-15T12:33:32.687000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
第二個是…… |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2026-04-15T12:33:31.707000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2026-04-15T12:33:31.847000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
不是啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2026-04-15T12:33:31.867000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2026-04-15T12:33:34.288000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
你們的委員都發現有問題了，一定要通報地方政府馬上進場去檢查啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2026-04-15T12:33:34.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2026-04-15T12:34:05.858000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
如果2024年8月你們這麼做了的話，10月發生的火災或許就不會有這8條人命的無辜傷亡。 |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2026-04-15T12:34:06.138000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2026-04-15T12:34:10.319000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
跟委員說明，就是那個時間的落差是不是可以縮短一點，這個我們未來會改進。 |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
0.719 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2026-04-15T12:34:10.319000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2026-04-15T12:34:10.639000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
這個是我們的前車之鑑，慘痛的經驗。 |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2026-04-15T12:34:10.639000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2026-04-15T12:34:12.100000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
過去是最後評定完之後，再把這個評鑑結果報告給衛生局，我們現在會依照委員講的會早一點。 |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
0.615 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2026-04-15T12:34:22.002000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2026-04-15T12:34:23.463000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
我現在不是在談個案而已，我是要從這個個案跟你講制度，監察院已經提出糾正了，你們的制度全面性的改善了沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
0.896 |
| transcript.gazette[95].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[95].start |
2026-04-15T12:34:23.483000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[95].end |
2026-04-15T12:34:23.863000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].text |
我問的就這麼簡單，你們的制度全面性改變了沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[95].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[96].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[96].start |
2026-04-15T12:34:37.853000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[96].end |
2026-04-15T12:34:45.036000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].text |
第一個就是我們把這個報告早一點送給地方，不要等到評定完之後才送。 |
| transcript.gazette[96].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[97].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[97].start |
2026-04-15T12:34:46.216000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[97].end |
2026-04-15T12:34:51.458000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].text |
第二個就是優化評鑑標準，把這些納進來，這個我們會再來做。 |
| transcript.gazette[97].quality |
0.88 |
| transcript.gazette[98].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[98].start |
2026-04-15T12:34:52.478000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[98].end |
2026-04-15T12:34:53.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].text |
要多久才會評定完？ |
| transcript.gazette[98].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[99].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[99].start |
2026-04-15T12:34:55.019000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[99].end |
2026-04-15T12:34:57.721000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].text |
你們的評鑑通常要多久才會評定完？ |
| transcript.gazette[99].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[100].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[100].start |
2026-04-15T12:34:58.181000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[100].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:01.883000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].text |
我們會分批，不過實地評鑑大概要3個月。 |
| transcript.gazette[100].quality |
0.562 |
| transcript.gazette[101].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[101].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:02.083000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[101].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:02.483000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].text |
實地評鑑完要多久？ |
| transcript.gazette[101].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[102].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[102].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:02.924000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[102].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:03.364000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].text |
大概都會在幾個月後才會做評定會議。 |
| transcript.gazette[102].quality |
0.812 |
| transcript.gazette[103].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[103].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:03.364000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[103].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:03.684000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].text |
我問個最具體的，為什麼我要問這個問題？ |
| transcript.gazette[103].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[104].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[104].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:03.684000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[104].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:28.377000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].text |
是因為你們2024年8月去評鑑東港的安泰醫院，10月3號就發生大火，死了8個人，然後發現一半都是違章建築，請問這件事情過去多久了？ |
| transcript.gazette[104].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[105].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[105].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:28.778000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[105].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:36.102000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].text |
從2024年8月評鑑到現在2026年4月，已經過了幾個月了？ |
| transcript.gazette[105].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[106].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[106].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:37.723000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[106].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:42.745000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].text |
請問安泰醫院的評鑑到底是合格還是不合格？ |
| transcript.gazette[106].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[107].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[107].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:44.686000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[107].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:47.311000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].text |
2024年當年他沒有合格，所以後來要重評。 |
| transcript.gazette[107].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[108].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[108].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:48.072000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[108].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:50.434000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].text |
在你們的網頁上查詢不到呀！ |
| transcript.gazette[108].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[109].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[109].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:54.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[109].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:56.878000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].text |
2024年的8月你們就去評鑑了，到現在你說他不合格還是合格？ |
| transcript.gazette[109].quality |
0.913 |
| transcript.gazette[110].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[110].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:57.859000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[110].end |
2026-04-15T12:35:59.020000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].text |
他要重新評鑑啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[110].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[111].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[111].start |
2026-04-15T12:35:59.100000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[111].end |
2026-04-15T12:36:00.040000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].text |
什麼叫重新評鑑？ |
| transcript.gazette[111].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[112].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[112].start |
2026-04-15T12:36:00.040000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[112].end |
2026-04-15T12:36:01.882000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].text |
就是2024年那一年他沒有合格。 |
| transcript.gazette[112].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[113].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[113].start |
2026-04-15T12:36:14.745000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[113].end |
2026-04-15T12:36:20.069000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].text |
對於人民知的權利，你們真的認為都不需要給我們嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[113].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[114].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[114].start |
2026-04-15T12:36:20.069000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[114].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[114].end |
2026-04-15T12:36:22.432000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[114].text |
評鑑不合格不用讓我們知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[114].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[115].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[115].start |
2026-04-15T12:36:22.432000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[115].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[115].end |
2026-04-15T12:36:22.972000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[115].text |
你說他不合格，但他的網頁說他合格欸！ |
| transcript.gazette[115].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[116].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[116].start |
2026-04-15T12:36:23.152000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[116].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[116].end |
2026-04-15T12:36:23.292000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[116].text |
那是之前吧！ |
| transcript.gazette[116].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[117].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[117].start |
2026-04-15T12:36:23.392000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[117].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[117].end |
2026-04-15T12:36:24.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[117].text |
若是之前的話，現在還可以掛在網頁上嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[117].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[118].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[118].start |
2026-04-15T12:36:24.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[118].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[118].end |
2026-04-15T12:36:24.393000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[118].text |
他說他們合格欸！ |
| transcript.gazette[118].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[119].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[119].start |
2026-04-15T12:36:24.493000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[119].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[119].end |
2026-04-15T12:36:55.003000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[119].text |
再來看你們的查詢系統，若查詢醫院評鑑，都查不到不合格，你們只公布合格的，查不到不合格的，人民知道他是還沒評鑑還是不合格嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[119].quality |
0.855 |
| transcript.gazette[120].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[120].start |
2026-04-15T12:36:58.168000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[120].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[120].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:10.780000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[120].text |
這個跟你們的狼醫查詢系統一樣，都是在這裡虛晃一招，只公布合格的，但事實上，還沒評鑑的查不出來，評鑑不合格的也查不出來，你們的網頁連不合格的資訊都不公告，這不用改進嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[120].quality |
0.92 |
| transcript.gazette[121].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[121].start |
2026-04-15T12:37:19.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[121].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[121].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:21.620000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[121].text |
我們過去當然只公告合格名單，沒有公告…… |
| transcript.gazette[121].quality |
0.765 |
| transcript.gazette[122].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[122].start |
2026-04-15T12:37:22.361000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[122].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[122].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:25.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[122].text |
不合格的不用公告給我們知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[122].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[123].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[123].start |
2026-04-15T12:37:26.406000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[123].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[123].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:27.868000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[123].text |
醫院自己說他合格，你說他不合格，如果沒有立委在這裡質詢，人民怎麼會知道他合格還是不合格？ |
| transcript.gazette[123].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[124].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[124].start |
2026-04-15T12:37:39.039000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[124].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[124].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:40.480000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[124].text |
過去我們都是公告合格名單。 |
| transcript.gazette[124].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[125].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[125].start |
2026-04-15T12:37:42.082000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[125].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[125].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:43.103000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[125].text |
過去是這樣，現在呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[125].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[126].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[126].start |
2026-04-15T12:37:43.343000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[126].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[126].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:43.723000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[126].text |
我們來研議把它加上去。 |
| transcript.gazette[126].quality |
0.3 |
| transcript.gazette[127].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[127].start |
2026-04-15T12:37:44.724000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[127].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[127].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:46.226000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[127].text |
你們評鑑這個要幹嘛？ |
| transcript.gazette[127].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[128].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[128].start |
2026-04-15T12:37:47.106000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[128].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[128].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:50.950000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[128].text |
不就是要讓人民知道哪些合格、哪些不合格嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[128].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[129].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[129].start |
2026-04-15T12:37:50.950000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[129].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[129].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:54.874000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[129].text |
結果你們不公告不合格的，人民怎麼知道這間是不合格的還是還沒評鑑的？ |
| transcript.gazette[129].quality |
0.581 |
| transcript.gazette[130].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[130].start |
2026-04-15T12:37:58.858000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[130].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[130].end |
2026-04-15T12:37:59.518000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[130].text |
這是包庇嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[130].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[131].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[131].start |
2026-04-15T12:38:00.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[131].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[131].end |
2026-04-15T12:38:00.839000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[131].text |
就是包庇嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[131].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[132].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[132].start |
2026-04-15T12:38:01.820000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[132].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[132].end |
2026-04-15T12:38:10.804000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[132].text |
在你們的醫院評鑑專區網頁上，對安泰醫院沒有任何敘述，這種到底是不合格還是合格？ |
| transcript.gazette[132].quality |
0.972 |
| transcript.gazette[133].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[133].start |
2026-04-15T12:38:10.824000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[133].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[133].end |
2026-04-15T12:38:11.044000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[133].text |
不要講了啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[133].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[134].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[134].start |
2026-04-15T12:38:11.144000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[134].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[134].end |
2026-04-15T12:38:26.811000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[134].text |
其實你們也有修改，在2024年10月安泰醫院大火以後──是「以後」喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[134].quality |
0.76 |
| transcript.gazette[135].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[135].start |
2026-04-15T12:38:27.872000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[135].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[135].end |
2026-04-15T12:39:16.283000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[135].text |
你們修改了醫院評鑑及教學醫院評鑑作業程序第十一點，不知道是對醫院太好還是怎樣，你們修改為放寬評鑑結果，可以限期改善，評鑑完到現在，經過了1年8個月快要兩年的時間，安泰醫院現在不是合格也不是不合格，因為你為他量身定制了放寬評鑑結果是可以限期改善的規定，但這個「限期」是要限多久？ |
| transcript.gazette[135].quality |
0.76 |
| transcript.gazette[136].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[136].start |
2026-04-15T12:39:23.889000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[136].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[136].end |
2026-04-15T12:39:24.890000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[136].text |
部長，是要限期多久？ |
| transcript.gazette[136].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[137].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[137].start |
2026-04-15T12:39:24.890000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[137].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[137].end |
2026-04-15T12:39:26.251000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[137].text |
限期改善以前每年都是這樣，這個舊的規定就有了，很早啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[137].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[138].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[138].start |
2026-04-15T12:39:26.251000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[138].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[138].end |
2026-04-15T12:39:28.193000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[138].text |
沒有啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[138].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[139].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[139].start |
2026-04-15T12:39:29.254000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[139].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[139].end |
2026-04-15T12:40:55.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[139].text |
你們可以把重大公安、病安事件納入評鑑，但你沒有明定一旦發生問題應該要停止或者是不予通過，只說可以給它限期改善，就是允許它改善，所以你不會判定它合格還是不合格，表面上你們說是新增了重大公安、病安事件的處理規定，實際上卻是把重大事件納入「先改善再決定是否不合格」的框架，這不是加嚴，有可能是在架空和弱化你們評鑑的即時把關功能，讓發生重大公安或病安事件的醫院，仍然有機會可以透過限期改善以維持評鑑結果，把重大事件納入可補正程序，卻沒有同步建立明確的評定暫停還有資訊揭露和對外標示的規則，導致問題的醫院得以停留在通過跟未通過之間的模糊地帶，處於合格不合格還沒有判定的狀況，所以安泰醫院在1年8個月後還既不是合格也不是不合格，因為它發生了公安事件，還在限期改善階段。 |
| transcript.gazette[139].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[140].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[140].start |
2026-04-15T12:40:57.282000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[140].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[140].end |
2026-04-15T12:41:23.958000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[140].text |
我就問你在制度面，就算你在合格不合格之間允許它限期改善，它現在是在限期改善階段，你也要讓人民知道這家醫院現在正在限期改善，你也要在法規上明定限期改善最長的時間是多少，沒有人這樣子長達1年8個月了還在限期改善的吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[140].quality |
0.806 |
| transcript.gazette[141].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[141].start |
2026-04-15T12:41:27.469000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[141].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[141].end |
2026-04-15T12:42:11.601000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[141].text |
你這樣有三個層次的影響，第一個層次是對民眾知情權的不利，評鑑的目的本來就是要讓我們知道它的醫療品質跟安全標準到底合格或不合格，你們現行的制度只公布合格、不公布不合格，你們還修改了評鑑作業程序，允許他限期改善，可是你們對於發生事件後進入限期改善的醫院，既沒有讓人民知道，也沒有清楚公告目前法律跟評鑑狀態，更沒有公告限期改善期間要多久，民眾無法做出正確的判斷，不知道這間醫院是否安全。 |
| transcript.gazette[141].quality |
0.836 |
| transcript.gazette[142].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[142].start |
2026-04-15T12:42:12.341000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[142].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[142].end |
2026-04-15T12:42:42.346000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[142].text |
第二個是對主管機關責任不利，因為只要不知道它是合格、不合格或是限期改善狀況，主管機關就持續用「尚在處理當中」、「尚未評定」來延後表態，也不必立即公告不合格，也不必立刻說明該醫院是否仍得對外宣稱自己具有某種評鑑資格，反正都不知道，都是醫院自己說「我合格了」，你們政府都不用說明。 |
| transcript.gazette[142].quality |
0.951 |
| transcript.gazette[143].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[143].start |
2026-04-15T12:42:43.147000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[143].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[143].end |
2026-04-15T12:43:10.640000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[143].text |
第三個是對醫院形成有利的模糊空間，醫院就利用這一種空窗期，主張「我沒有不合格」，因為我還在「限期改善」，甚至還可以強調過去的評鑑光環或是社會的印象，還在網站上面寫「我合格」，所以對這種發生重大事件的醫院來講，保留了很大的操作空間。 |
| transcript.gazette[143].quality |
0.921 |
| transcript.gazette[144].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[144].start |
2026-04-15T12:43:10.640000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[144].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[144].end |
2026-04-15T12:43:31.044000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[144].text |
所以我現在問你，安泰醫院2024年評鑑不合格，2025年你們修改了評鑑作業程序，它現在可以適用你們2025年的評鑑程序，讓它限期改善嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[144].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[145].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[145].start |
2026-04-15T12:43:31.044000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[145].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[145].end |
2026-04-15T12:43:39.492000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[145].text |
以這個醫院為例，是這樣把我們的評鑑制度當裝飾嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[145].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[146].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[146].start |
2026-04-15T12:43:40.533000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[146].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[146].end |
2026-04-15T12:43:51.639000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[146].text |
它在2024年進行評鑑，用你2025年修改規定，所以它2024年的評鑑不算，要依照2025年的作業程序來重評，給它機會，如果每間醫院都這樣，你們的評鑑是裝飾用的嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[146].quality |
0.712 |
| transcript.gazette[147].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[147].start |
2026-04-15T12:43:51.779000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[147].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[147].end |
2026-04-15T12:43:51.779000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[147].text |
部長，這樣對嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[147].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[148].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[148].start |
2026-04-15T12:43:59.995000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[148].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[148].end |
2026-04-15T12:44:03.338000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[148].text |
限期改善這部分，我們會再督促主管機關。 |
| transcript.gazette[148].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[149].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[149].start |
2026-04-15T12:44:03.638000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[149].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[149].end |
2026-04-15T12:44:06.161000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[149].text |
你們的主管單位在哪裡？ |
| transcript.gazette[149].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[150].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[150].start |
2026-04-15T12:44:06.161000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[150].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[150].end |
2026-04-15T12:44:07.922000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[150].text |
限期改善的「限期」是限多久？ |
| transcript.gazette[150].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[151].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[151].start |
2026-04-15T12:44:08.603000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[151].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[151].end |
2026-04-15T12:44:10.945000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[151].text |
1年8個月了還要限嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[151].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[152].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[152].start |
2026-04-15T12:44:11.425000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[152].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[152].end |
2026-04-15T12:44:14.828000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[152].text |
你們沒想過你們的限期改善是多久嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[152].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[153].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[153].start |
2026-04-15T12:44:14.828000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[153].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[153].end |
2026-04-15T12:44:27.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[153].text |
2024年8月評鑑，到現在還在限期改善，連合格不合格都沒有辦法判定，它對外說它合格，到底你們現在是判定它合格還是不合格？ |
| transcript.gazette[153].quality |
0.92 |
| transcript.gazette[154].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[154].start |
2026-04-15T12:44:27.561000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[154].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[154].end |
2026-04-15T12:44:28.061000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[154].text |
還是在限期改善當中？ |
| transcript.gazette[154].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[155].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[155].start |
2026-04-15T12:44:28.101000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[155].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[155].end |
2026-04-15T12:44:30.883000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[155].text |
醫院評鑑合格與否，結果是醫院自己說我合格，你們網頁找不到，也沒有公布，他們這樣做沒有違反相關規定嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[155].quality |
0.911 |
| transcript.gazette[156].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[156].start |
2026-04-15T12:44:30.883000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[156].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[156].end |
2026-04-15T12:45:30.354000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[156].text |
部長，我今天不是針對安泰醫院這個個案，而是要問你，監察院已經指出全國81家如安泰醫院一樣列管的違建醫院中，有70家通過評鑑，這些醫院的狀況都有可能跟安泰一樣有公安的疑慮，而你們卻說他們評鑑合格，你們到底要不要正面的去面對你們評鑑制度失靈的責任啊？ |
| transcript.gazette[156].quality |
0.91 |
| transcript.gazette[157].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[157].start |
2026-04-15T12:45:32.506000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[157].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[157].end |
2026-04-15T12:45:55.823000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[157].text |
再者，當你們在2024年8月評鑑安泰的時候，評鑑委員已經在公文裡面寫下他的評鑑意見「公安消防缺失」，你們卻沒有同時通報地方政府，地方政府不知道，這樣的評鑑制度有預警功能嗎？沒有！ |
| transcript.gazette[157].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[158].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[158].start |
2026-04-15T12:45:56.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[158].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[158].end |
2026-04-15T12:46:00.907000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[158].text |
所以8月之後的10月發生大火，死了8條人命。 |
| transcript.gazette[158].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[159].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[159].start |
2026-04-15T12:46:04.196000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[159].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[159].end |
2026-04-15T12:46:26.894000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[159].text |
當醫院發生重大公安或病安事件以後，你們修改你的評鑑作業程序，評鑑結果沒有判定合格也沒有判定不合格，就長期停留在「限期改善」當中，民眾的風險要依據什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[159].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[160].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[160].start |
2026-04-15T12:46:26.894000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[160].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[160].end |
2026-04-15T12:46:32.281000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[160].text |
沒有資訊，不知道任何狀況，民眾無從判斷風險。 |
| transcript.gazette[160].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[161].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[161].start |
2026-04-15T12:46:32.281000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[161].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[161].end |
2026-04-15T12:46:49.851000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[161].text |
所以我們用這個個案來看你們的制度，讓我們知道被列管的違建醫院到底是哪81家？ |
| transcript.gazette[161].quality |
0.853 |
| transcript.gazette[162].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[162].start |
2026-04-15T12:46:52.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[162].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[162].end |
2026-04-15T12:47:31.479000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[162].text |
然後公布你的醫院評鑑結果，合格的公告出來，不合格的也一樣公告出來，限期改善的也要公告出來，制度面的限期改善時限是多久，一個月、兩個月、三個月已經夠多了，如果不行的話，就是不合格，不要再有這樣子的狀況，安泰醫院已經限期1年8個月了，如果再這樣拖下去，你的評鑑制度形同虛設，沒有用的，而且置病人的安全在高風險之下。 |
| transcript.gazette[162].quality |
0.854 |
| transcript.gazette[163].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[163].start |
2026-04-15T12:47:33.023000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[163].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[163].end |
2026-04-15T12:47:33.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[163].text |
部長，有辦法做到嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[163].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[164].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[164].start |
2026-04-15T12:47:33.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[164].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[164].end |
2026-04-15T12:47:35.404000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[164].text |
這個制度面要改啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[164].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[165].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[165].start |
2026-04-15T12:47:36.984000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[165].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[165].end |
2026-04-15T12:47:45.187000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[165].text |
跟委員說明，國土署所提供名單上的醫院，我們都有列管，會再進行輔導改善。 |
| transcript.gazette[165].quality |
0.774 |
| transcript.gazette[166].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[166].start |
2026-04-15T12:47:45.267000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[166].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[166].end |
2026-04-15T12:47:49.548000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[166].text |
我是說把監察院說的81家名單給我們，可以嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[166].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[167].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[167].start |
2026-04-15T12:47:50.689000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[167].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[167].end |
2026-04-15T12:47:54.850000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[167].text |
可以，那個名單其實是國土署給我們的。 |
| transcript.gazette[167].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[168].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[168].start |
2026-04-15T12:47:55.570000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[168].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[168].end |
2026-04-15T12:48:04.433000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[168].text |
再搭配你們評鑑合格的70家，一併勾出來。 |
| transcript.gazette[168].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[169].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[169].start |
2026-04-15T12:48:04.433000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[169].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[169].end |
2026-04-15T12:48:05.433000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[169].text |
這些目前都在我們輔導之下。 |
| transcript.gazette[169].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[170].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[170].start |
2026-04-15T12:48:04.433000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[170].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[170].end |
2026-04-15T12:48:08.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[170].text |
你們公開的網頁要改進，有沒有問題？ |
| transcript.gazette[170].quality |
0.867 |
| transcript.gazette[171].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[171].start |
2026-04-15T12:48:08.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[171].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[171].end |
2026-04-15T12:48:09.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[171].text |
可以、可以。 |
| transcript.gazette[171].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[172].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[172].start |
2026-04-15T12:48:08.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[172].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[172].end |
2026-04-15T12:48:12.035000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[172].text |
你們的限期改善不能限到1年8個月了還在限期，可以嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[172].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[173].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[173].start |
2026-04-15T12:48:13.015000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[173].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[173].end |
2026-04-15T12:48:18.939000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[173].text |
限期改善的時限給一個月、兩個月、三個月已經夠長了，你們還要拖多久啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[173].quality |
0.867 |
| transcript.gazette[174].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[174].start |
2026-04-15T12:48:19.719000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[174].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[174].end |
2026-04-15T12:48:21.980000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[174].text |
限期改善可以一直限下去嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[174].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[175].speaker |
林委員淑芬 |
| transcript.gazette[175].start |
2026-04-15T12:48:22.941000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[175].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[175].end |
2026-04-15T12:48:40.917000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[175].text |
6年評鑑一次，1年8個月以前的評鑑到現在還沒有公告不合格，6年期間有2年都在限期改善中，這個評鑑制度就沒有效用了，這些制度面都要改進啦！謝謝！謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[175].quality |
0.823 |
| transcript.gazette[176].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[176].start |
2026-04-15T12:48:41.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[176].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[176].end |
2026-04-15T12:48:44.274143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[176].text |
謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[176].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[177].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[177].start |
2026-04-15T12:48:44.574143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[177].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[177].end |
2026-04-15T12:48:47.431286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[177].text |
現在請王正旭委員質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[177].quality |
0 |