| IVOD_ID |
168437 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168437 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-20-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-13T09:34:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-13T09:45:36+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5655ee4938da65e1cd70d99386594cc9e63d9eaeca1783e35b9b854957482d506175e7c94f56e9555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:34:28 - 09:45:36 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長及台灣中油股份有限公司董事長、衛生福利部、法務部就「中東衝突對能源、物價、民生與醫療物資供應及市場秩序之中長期影響與因應檢討，暨因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算執行情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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吳委員秉叡 |
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賴次長建信 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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這個關於塑膠袋因為在我的選區新莊有認識一些塑膠袋的製造的工廠認識一些朋友我就有請教他們說為什麼會缺塑膠袋 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
50.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
當然這是一部分人的意見他說因為那個原料從過年到現在漲了三次那這個塑膠工廠他們平常就是專門在做這個塑膠袋的他就是隱隱的感覺就是那上游原料從過年到現在漲了三次他隱隱的感覺就是說這個就是要漲價所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
81.474 |
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我如果以我個人來跟他講說那如果有商家說缺塑膠袋啊可不可以直接跟他買當然他礙於交情的關係他也是會賣但是問題是其實他工廠生產是大量你個別的商家需要的量對他來講是微不足道的那我就是從這個地方要請教一個問題因為台灣的親友列姐只有中油跟台塑化兩家 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
96.548 |
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這個從經濟學的觀點來講 這個叫寡占那這個寡占喔 尤其我們看到油價油價這兩家的這個關聯關係 雖然他們都講說沒有聯合壟斷但是他們之間的關聯是非常的強這國務委員每天都在看 都看得出來那這個中間 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
105.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
116.494 |
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是不是有可能利用這樣的機會肌肉行銷啊 減少產量然後就去拉抬這個把這個價格給抬高呢你覺得有沒有這樣的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個部分為了穩定的物價行政院已經成立了物價的小組每週開會剛剛委員所說到的一個狀況是法務部包括各地的檢察司、廉政署、調查局都會有相關的稽查小組來稽查這個現象是否屬實若是有屬實的話他們會依法處置那以經濟部的立場的話我們除了在穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
145.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
167.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
上游的這個物料的一個進口之外對於中游的產銷包括你剛剛講的塑膠粒的這個部分因為中游本來這個世青的這個廠沒有這麼早要開所以他3月31號就先開爐了那開爐的話他會多一個生產比如以稀為例的話其實一個月的一個需要量我們的需要量 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
168.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
194.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
是遠小於我們的供給量那為什麼會有現在的一個剛剛委員所提到的大家有一個恐慌的心理我們也希望說消費者這邊不要因為有預期的心理當然我們會努力在新聞報導上面都有說明都足夠的但是我跟你講這個因為台灣他的市場本身市場的維納量是小那之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
195.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
216.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
中國可以用很多非法的方法去取得一些原油啦譬如說他偷買伊朗的原油被美國制裁的啊俄羅斯的原油啊所以他的油就很低他在原來弄了一大堆的石化產業打到台灣中國本身就內捲所以全世界的這個塑膠的原料幾乎都被中國打趴嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
217.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
234.873 |
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那所以導致台灣的這個親友裂解之後所衍生的生產品它的生產意願因為我走得了緊啊所以它生產意願也不高那另外一點是人的心裡利用這個中東美伊的這個衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
261.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
然後這個河母之海峽的封鎖 造成國際遊記要飆漲他利用這樣的危機 他自己本身也在要探這個機會探指我個人是覺得說 難免會給人家這樣的猜測因為台塑這個集團 過去一段時間是很賺錢但是去年前年是不太好 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
確實如委員所說,因為中國近幾年的經濟動能不足,他以石化業為例,他不但是內捲還外捲,然後造成很多的國家長期依賴中國的進口,但戰前就有這種狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
對於說石化業的未來的加值化,甚至是說剛性需求的自我滿足的部分,終有演繹了包括新世青的一個改建的建設的一個計畫,就是希望說這些基本物資所需要的,我們國家必須要有一個足夠的韌性。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
320.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
對 那問題是很可能為了要供給國內需求 中油被這個包袱很可能他甚至要虧本 也要生產因為如果從國際的這個物資生產這些原料的生產 搞不好現在國際的價格就比你這個生產的價格還要低啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
324.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
會有這樣的風險那問題是我們台灣的國會又很不友善對於台電對於裝油蓋撥譜該要給你們的他們都不給啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
331.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那怎麼辦咧?要拖垮台電跟拖垮中油嗎?其實台電跟中油是為了要抑制國內的通貨膨脹為全國人民背起這一個十字架,不是嗎?是,國營事業要服務全國的民眾,這是理所當然但是因為中油的一個狀況因為最近的中東的情勢的發展它過去的虧損包括以 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
358.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
373.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
汽油為例的話到目前為止吸收了107.3億元而我國的這個汽油到目前為止是33.9塊我剛剛在報告裡面已經談到了韓國、日本甚至是中國、香港 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
374.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
396.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
它的油價都遠遠高於我們的國家所以針對於外界也有討論到甚至我們部長也有在立法院你說的都是事實啦但是問題是一般在外面的這個市場上面一般的消費者感受不到因為一般的消費者他沒有辦法去比較台灣的油價跟日本的油價台灣的油價跟韓國的油價台灣的油價跟中國的油價 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
399.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
411.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你講了然後就有人反宣傳說台灣就民不聊生百惡非長所有人都活不下去他就是惡性宣傳這裡面就是包含了很多的說法是包含了政治的動機在誤導不然的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
414.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
438.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
請問這一個動漲那當然政府也有幫忙在貨物稅的部分也減了不少那但是這個動漲最重要的目的就是不要讓台灣通貨膨脹那這個付出的代價當然政府要承擔所以政府也願意編預算撥補甚至也願意給你們增資結果在野黨說因為我們國會人多就是不給你過啊不然你是要怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
440.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
445.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他只是要逼你 你剛剛那個報告我看了很怕他這樣逼 你10月電價要漲我跟你講10月要漲電價你敢嗎 10月28號要投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
454.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
477.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
國營事業對民生非常有重要性所以剛剛委員所提到的問題不管是國營事業的一個事業預算甚至是我們公務機關的年度預算對於我們國家的經濟的發展都是非常的重要我們也藉此機會期待大院諸位委員來支持我們行政院包括經濟部所提的各項的一個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
478.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
495.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們當然願意支持啊 我現在是問你說萬一在野黨不支持 還是不能過那你們中友跟台電還有經濟部會打算如何因應啊你們有沒有什麼想法要怎麼因應啊可不可以講出一個讓人家眼睛一亮的這個東西啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
496.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
524.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
國際油價上漲的真的是非常的高那中油跟中油目前所吸收的國際油價的一個上漲無論是在包括是石油的部分或是天然氣的部分市長我的問題是市長你聽清楚我的問題我很了解我也很願意支持我向來都支持都非常支持因為這個是為全民的付出那我是說如果本願 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
525.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
544.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
高高在上他不給你撥補他不給你增資那經濟部對於中油跟台電的未來有什麼想法基本上我們先從補考專案貸款專案貸款問題是你的負債比如果拿到銀行去能看嗎負債比都快要100%了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
547.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
559.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
中有過去的一個性評因為在公司的治理之下有很好的性評那透過這個專案的最好的性評是很多人以為是郭文施又說後面有政府在撐腰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
560.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
579.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那當然因為中油是對於我們國家如此重要而且中油也是百分之百由經濟部持有股份的一個公司所以我們對於中油理所當然也是支持的我知道那我現在跟你說我有兩個事情想要拜託你第一個要跟台電跟中油的員工加油打氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
582.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
589.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個狀況不是他們造成的他們都很努力認真的在自己的工作崗位上是為全國人民背這個包袱 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
591.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
619.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以這個說真的應該對台電跟中油的員工感覺到要鼓舞他們的士氣不要因為這樣說人家又說中油台電這個國營事業怎麼樣子這樣好不好這是第一個第二個技術要再精進這個世界現在這個時代你要技術精進才能夠超越才能夠繼續有領先競爭所以中油在提煉的方面在列解 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
620.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
635.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個技術 化學的體驗技術如果能夠再提升那是跟別的產業 跟將來甚至可以對我們電子業需要的這些非常精密的化學品能不能有這個產制 從另外一方面可以獲得利潤 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
637.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
661.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝委員指導我上個禮拜已經到工會去表達經濟部對於中油工會員工的投入的一個感謝那除此之外的話其實中油公司這幾年不管是低流、原油、高流、聯油的參配包括煉成綠的部分都有如委員所說的一直在精進之中我們也非常感謝所有公司及員工的一個付出 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
662.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
663.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好 謝謝 請為中華民國 為台灣繼續加油謝謝好 謝謝吳秉瑞委員 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-04-13T09:34:28+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-04-13T09:34:30.486000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
主席，麻煩請經濟部賴次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-04-13T09:34:30.486000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-04-13T09:34:32.972000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請賴次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-04-13T09:34:32.972000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-04-13T09:34:35.458000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-04-13T09:34:35.458000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-04-13T09:34:37.944000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
次長早。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-04-13T09:34:37.944000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-04-13T09:34:52.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
關於塑膠袋，因為在我的選區新莊我有認識一些塑膠袋製造的工廠，認識一些朋友，我就有請教他們說為什麼會缺塑膠袋？ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.98 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-04-13T09:34:54.500000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-04-13T09:35:18.665000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
當然這是一部分人的意見，他說因為原料塑膠粒從過年到現在漲了三次，塑膠工廠他們平常就是專門做塑膠袋的，上游原料從過年到現在漲了三次，他隱隱感覺這就是要漲價。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-04-13T09:35:22.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-04-13T09:35:30.567000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
但若我去跟他講，如果有商家缺塑膠袋，可不可以直接跟他買？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.88 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-04-13T09:35:30.567000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-04-13T09:35:39.730000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
當然，他礙於交情的關係，當然也會賣，但是問題是工廠是大量生產，個別商家需要的量對他來講微不足道。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.907 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-04-13T09:35:41.171000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-04-13T09:36:23.153000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
我就要請教一個問題，因為臺灣的輕油裂解只有中油跟台塑化兩家，從經濟學的觀點來講是寡占，因為寡占，尤其我們看到油價，這兩家的油價關聯關係，雖然他們都講說沒有聯合壟斷，但是他們之間的關聯非常強，國人每天都在看，都看得出來，中間是不是有可能利用這樣的機會，飢餓行銷、減少產量，然後把這個價格給抬高呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.902 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-04-13T09:36:23.333000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-04-13T09:36:24.474000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
你覺得有沒有這樣的可能性？ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-04-13T09:36:26.155000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-04-13T09:36:48.740000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
這部分為了穩定物價，行政院已經成立了物價小組，每週開會，剛剛委員所說的狀況是法務部，包括各地檢察署、廉政署、調查局都有相關的稽查小組來稽查現象是否屬實，若有屬實的話，他們會依法處置。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.988 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-04-13T09:36:49.460000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-04-13T09:37:29.205000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
以經濟部立場，我們除了穩定上游物價物料進口之外，對於中油的產銷，包括你剛剛講的塑膠粒的部分，因為中油本來四輕廠沒有這麼早要開，他3月31號就先開爐了，開爐的話，他會多一個生產廠，比如乙烯為例，其實我們一個月需要量是遠小於我們的供給量，那為什麼會有剛剛委員所提到大家有一個恐慌的心理，我們也希望消費者不要因為有預期心理，相關…… |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.911 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-04-13T09:37:30.625000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-04-13T09:38:17.128000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
當然因為你們很努力在新聞報導上都有說明都是足夠的，但是我跟你講，因為臺灣的市場胃納量小，之前中國用很多非法的方法去取得一些原油，譬如說，他偷買伊朗的原油，被美國制裁，還有俄羅斯的原油，所以他的油價很低，弄了一大堆的石化產品打到臺灣，中國本身就內卷，全世界塑膠原料幾乎都被中國打趴，導致臺灣輕油裂解之後衍生的生產品，因為做就賠錢，所以它生產意願也不高。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.894 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-04-13T09:38:18.069000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-04-13T09:38:35.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
另外一點是人的心理，利用中東、美伊的衝突，荷姆茲海峽封鎖，造成國際油價飆漲，他利用這樣子的危機，他自己也要趁這個機會賺錢。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.815 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-04-13T09:38:37.677000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-04-13T09:38:49.340000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
我個人是覺得難免會給人家這樣的猜測，因為台塑這個集團過去一段時間是很賺錢，但是去年、前年是不太好。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.978 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-04-13T09:38:51.614000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-04-13T09:39:07.253000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
確實如委員所說，中國因為近幾年的經濟動能不足，以石化業為例，它不但內卷還外卷，造成很多的國家長期依賴中國的進口，戰前就有這種狀況。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.915 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-04-13T09:39:09.756000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-04-13T09:39:26.514000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
對於石化業未來的加值化，甚至剛性需求自我滿足的部分，中油也擬了包括新四輕建設的計畫，就是希望這些需要的基本物資，我們國家必須要有足夠的韌性。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.862 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-04-13T09:39:28.077000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-04-13T09:39:38.485000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
對，但問題很可能為了要供給國人的需求，中油背這個包袱，很可能他虧本也要生產。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-04-13T09:39:38.485000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-04-13T09:39:49.334000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
因為如果從國際進口這些原料來生產，搞不好現在國際的價格就比你生產的價格還要低，會有這樣的風險。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.932 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-04-13T09:39:49.514000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-04-13T09:39:52.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
問題是我們臺灣的國會又很不友善，對於台電、對於中油該撥補、該要給你們的，他們都不給啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-04-13T09:39:59.320000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-04-13T09:40:00.901000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
怎麼辦呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-04-13T09:40:00.901000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-04-13T09:40:03.403000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
要拖垮台電跟中油嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-04-13T09:40:03.403000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-04-13T09:40:12.048000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
其實台電跟中油是為了要抑制國內的通貨膨脹、為全國人民背起這個十字架，不是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-04-13T09:40:12.048000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-04-13T09:40:44.955000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
是，國營事業要服務全國的民眾，這是理所當然，但是最近因為中東情勢的發展，中油過去的虧損，以汽油為例，到目前為止吸收了107.3億元，而我國的汽油到目前為止是33.9塊，我剛剛在報告裡面已經談到了，韓國、日本甚至中國、香港，他們的油價都遠遠高於我們國家。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.943 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-04-13T09:40:46.456000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-04-13T09:40:50.700000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
針對於外界也有討論到，甚至我們部長也有在立法院…… |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-04-13T09:40:51.020000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-04-13T09:41:46.610000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
你說的都是事實，問題是在外面的市場上一般的消費者感受不到，因為一般的消費者沒有辦法去比較臺灣的油價跟日本的油價、跟韓國的油價，臺灣的油價跟中國的油價，你講了然後就有人反宣傳，說臺灣就民不聊生、百物飛漲，所有人都活不下去了，他就是惡性宣傳，這裡面很多說法是包含了政治的動機在誤導，不然的話，凍漲當然政府也有幫忙，在貨物稅的部分也減了不少，凍漲最重要的目的就是不要讓臺灣通貨膨脹，這個付出的代價當然政府要承擔，所以政府也願意編預算撥補，甚至也願意給你們增資，結果在野黨說因為他們國會人多，就是不給你過，不然，你要怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-04-13T09:41:48.291000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-04-13T09:41:53.038000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
這個是要逼你……剛剛你那個報告我看了很怕，他這樣逼你10月電價要漲，我跟你講10月要漲電價，你敢嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.925 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-04-13T09:41:53.038000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-04-13T09:41:53.338000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
11月28號要投票。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-04-13T09:42:02.499000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-04-13T09:42:25.221000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
國營事業對民生非常有重要性，所以剛剛委員所提到的問題，不管是國營事業的事業預算，甚至是我們公務機關的年度預算，對於我們國家的經濟發展都非常的重要，我們也藉此機會期待大院諸位委員來支持我們行政院包括經濟部所提的各項預算。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-04-13T09:42:26.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-04-13T09:42:35.987000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
我們當然願意支持，我現在是問你，萬一在野黨不支持，還是不能過，那你們中油、台電還有經濟部會打算如何因應？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-04-13T09:42:36.168000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-04-13T09:42:38.509000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
你們有沒有什麼想法？ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-04-13T09:42:38.669000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-04-13T09:42:39.189000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
要怎麼因應？ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-04-13T09:42:39.549000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-04-13T09:42:43.392000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
可不可以講出一個讓人家眼睛一亮的東西？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-04-13T09:42:44.725000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-04-13T09:42:59.236000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
國際油價上漲的價格真的是非常高，中油目前所吸收的國際油價的上漲，無論是在石油或天然氣的部分，都需要國人的支持。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.824 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-04-13T09:43:00.877000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-04-13T09:43:22.817000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
次長，你聽清楚我的問題，我很了解，我也很願意支持，我向來都非常支持，因為這個是為全民的付出，我是說如果本院高高在上，不給你撥補、不給你增資，那經濟部對於中油跟台電的未來有什麼想法？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-04-13T09:43:23.918000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-04-13T09:43:26.620000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
基本上我們先從比如專案貸款，包括…… |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.733 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-04-13T09:43:28.421000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-04-13T09:43:31.823000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
專案貸款，問題是你的負債比，那個拿到銀行去能看嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-04-13T09:43:31.823000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-04-13T09:43:32.644000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
負債比都快要100%了。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-04-13T09:43:35.103000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-04-13T09:43:42.190000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
中油過去在公司的治理之下，有很好的信評，透過專案融資…… |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-04-13T09:43:42.571000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-04-13T09:43:46.815000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
最好的信評是因為很多銀行會以為是國營事業，所以後面有政府在撐腰。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-04-13T09:43:48.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-04-13T09:44:00.418000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
當然，因為中油對於我們國家如此重要，而且中油也是百分之百由經濟部持有股份的公司，所以我們對於中油理所當然也是支持的。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
吳委員秉叡：我知道，我現在跟你說，我有兩個事情想要拜託你 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-04-13T09:44:04.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-04-13T09:44:31.384000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
第一、要幫台電跟中油的員工加油打氣，這個狀況不是他們造成的，他們都很努力認真的在自己的工作崗位上，為全國人民背這個包袱，所以說真的應該要鼓舞台電跟中油員工的士氣，不要因為人家都說中油、台電國營事業怎麼樣……這樣好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.919 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
吳委員秉叡：我知道，我現在跟你說，我有兩個事情想要拜託你 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-04-13T09:44:31.964000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-04-13T09:45:03.311000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
這是第一個；第二、技術要再精進，現在這個時代要技術精進才能夠超越、才能夠繼續保持競爭領先，所以中油的化學提煉技術如果能夠再提升，將來甚至可以生產我們電子業需要的非常精密的化學品，另外一方面也可以獲得利潤。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.894 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-04-13T09:45:05.593000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-04-13T09:45:25.002000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
謝謝委員指導，我上個禮拜已經到工會去表達經濟部對於中油工會員工投入的感謝，除此之外，中油公司這幾年不管是低硫原油、高硫原油的摻配，包括煉成率的部分，都有如委員所說的一直在精進之中。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.94 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
賴次長建信 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-04-13T09:45:25.642000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-04-13T09:45:29.744000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
這我們也非常感謝中油公司及員工的付出。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
吳委員秉叡 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-04-13T09:45:30.324000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-04-13T09:45:31.005000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
好，謝謝，請為中華民國、為臺灣繼續加油！謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-04-13T09:45:31.226000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-04-13T09:45:31.266000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
謝謝吳秉叡委員的發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-04-13T09:45:31.766000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-04-13T09:45:35.194571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
接下來請第三位賴士葆委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0 |