| IVOD_ID |
168412 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168412 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-09T12:58:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-09T13:14:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7792dc2520ff3d9aa0a49e36d97d29c5fc5b9733af610d7e5d6989c2027b9690b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:58:46 - 13:14:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、經濟部、農業部就「防制強迫勞動與公平招募：台灣移工制度接軌國際人權與供應鏈治理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【4月8日及9日二天一次會】） |
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主席麻煩請紅部長請紅部長 |
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陳委員好部長好 上次我有特別提到法人重建處副處長葉秀珊在調查期間向外部調查委員騷擾的事情也就是調查委員名單外洩這件事情請問部長有開始調查了嗎 |
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43.195 |
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62.01 |
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跟委員報告 那有關於委員上市所關心的那個部分喔 那我有親自跟三位沒有 你就按照我問題回答就好 我說請問你們有開始啟動調查了嗎我有親自跟那個三個外部委員通過電話 就是說他們確定是說這段期間沒有這樣的情形你說什麼 |
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就是說在調查期間對不對 那個葉前副處長並沒有跟三個外部委員做接觸好 那接觸有很多種 有身體的接觸有電話的接觸 也有信件的接觸那我們來看看 我不曉得我先請教一下你現在是董事長嗎 執行長 |
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執行長好那個那請教執行長你的接觸並沒有接觸你指的接觸是哪些範圍我剛剛列舉了很多就是說在這個過程中那他三位委員都並沒有接到那個葉前副處長的電話他只是說在這個過程中或許就有像委員剛才所提示的就是說我就問你啦我沒有要提示你什麼啦就是 |
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你就講電話嘛好就是說你說沒有電話這沒有打電話這件事情啦沒有電話的接觸啦好啊其他你就沒有問了嘛所以你剛剛一上來你是告訴我們大家如果我沒有追問的話你就說 |
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157.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你問了你去查了沒有接觸所以剛剛剛剛執行長報告是這樣嗎你們的理解跟我有一樣嗎好如果我沒有再再分享的話對不對你剛是這麼回答我們還可以倒帶去看喔那個主席應該也是聽到一樣的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
188.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那那個我剛剛是問部長就是說部長應該呃在執行長上來之前你還沒有很清楚就是這件事開始調查這樣子是吧這呃在預防重現中心的幾個霸凌案的調查應該都是在執行長去年5月上任前就已經完成的事情已經完成調查去年好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
191.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
215.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
就算好現在算你們有調查好知道說有調查因為呢我們昨天也接到某位調查委員來向我們反映說你們有人打電話跟他詢問可能應該就是在講執行長吧好然後但是問的是葉秀珊有沒有電話聯絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
217.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
245.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
沒錯吧那所以剛剛特別執行長也跟大家報告沒有電話聯絡那調查委員呢他有特別告訴你們說告訴去電的人可能也就是應該是執行長吧誰有講誰被騷擾了而且是用email寫信的方式好那我們繼續喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
247.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
265.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為這位調查委員呢擔心部長被蒙蔽那也擔心說在文字上的敘述會產生一些誤解所以呢本席只好再問一次那我們來看一下簡報 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
266.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
291.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
葉秀珊在去年2月底被確認霸凌之後竟然在114年3月13日葉秀珊寫信給他們三位敬愛的老師的信件第一句話就說很冒昧寫這封信我無意針對調查結果有任何的意見我想再提醒各位上次我有特別問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
外部調查委員的名單是可以事先被知道的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那部長回說不行我想事先跟事後都不可以洩漏名單那很清楚的今天葉秀珊自己提供了這樣子的一個留下了這樣的一個證據給大家好那我也不知道部長說了剛剛其實沒有人說謊他的確沒有電話聯絡但email算不算是另外一種聯繫好我們繼續看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
331.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
雖然說我無意針對調查結果有任何意見但是他又講了一直在訴說他自己有多委屈自己有多麼的傑出目的就是要求要更改調查霸凌成立的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
373.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
但当时调查委员没有回复因为大家谨守奋进知道不应该有这样子的接触于是呢叶修山在6月的时候再写一封调查委员也一样没有回复然后我们再看下个简报11月18日这位被尊称为敬爱的老师瞬间就变成被告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
374.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
377.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
而且要求要賠償賠償葉秀珊損失40萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
410.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
結果這個他在翻臉這個調查委員的時候呢就變成理由是未查證證言真偽違反調查倫理未回應原告後續申訴被告沒有更正報告內容理由竟然是他3月13日跟6月28日寫信要求調查委員回覆及更改調查結果沒有被回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
411.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
422.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以調查委員沒有善盡責任忽略他給的資料讓他霸凌成立這還沒完喔後面還有更令人吃驚的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
423.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
444.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他指控這位調查委員沒資格擔任你洪部長提名的擔任的這個法人董事的職務用這樣的理由給他所謂的尊敬的老師告到法院調查報告是2月下旬完成的這位調查委員是5月2日兼差董事那怎麼可以告人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
446.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
457.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
未主動申請迴避這件事情難道沒有幫葉秀珊更改霸凌的結果沒有幫她更改這個霸凌成立的結果就沒有資格當董事了嗎今天呢照理來講這些都是應該你們自己去調查的但很好啊你們調查完結果是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
469.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
484.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒有電話聯絡喔其他聯絡接觸都不算喔如果今天我說照理來講這些你們應該都是你們自己調查好要呈給部長你那天上次我質詢的時候部長說我如果有什麼要提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
485.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
513.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這是我們該去調查的事嗎這是你們自己內部的事情欸我還沒有講完喔這些資料一併給部長這些都是調查委員有正式email給你們的這個法人董事長執行長都有正式email喔那這些被騷擾的調查委員有尋求你們的法律協助這些請問部長你有沒有掌握這些資訊 你有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
514.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
534.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
有 我們其實都有提供法律的資源的協助給他不是 你有沒有掌握這些調查委員跟你們跟你們求救 跟你們反映這些事情你們有沒有提供 不是說誰怎麼樣你就提供法律協助我不是講 我不是泛指所有的人我是講 就這些委員部長有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
538.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
548.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你知不知道到底有沒有掌握然後你有沒有協助他們我們去講其他人我就講這些委員根本說明第一個我們當然要協助這些調查的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
549.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
575.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我先跟委員講這幾件事情的層次這個霸凌案的調查存在調查出來以後霸凌成立存在也沒有因為這裡面任何的過程而去改變這件霸凌調查的部分我沒有追究這個事情我在追究是名單洩漏的事然後再來是去年的法人的幾個這樣子的霸凌調查的案件其實我們後來也做了人事上面的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
576.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
586.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以也沒有你做人事上的處理你處理了什麼其實我們認為不一定是任的人員其實現在應該都你們處理了哪些人調查霸凌成立的對哪些啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
591.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
614.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
委員我們不好在這邊這裡面當然涉及到這個很多個案上面的個資的這個問題其實我不應該我不太瞭解你你剛我問你說你們處理的一些人職務上的調度這些都是去霸凌人家的人是不是可能說就像委員你因為你現在講的這個案子我沒有問你名字我不問你名字我說是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
616.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
642.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
呃這個就是經過的霸凌的職場霸凌的調查然後經過一個我們認為堅守不要要堅守程序正義的調查調查完以後確認假設有成立的話那我們當然要做相關的處理人事上的處理好沒關係日子還長得很我們一件一件來今天我就先處理這個名單外洩的事情因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
644.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
673.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我也有在就是說在這個你另外一個問題還沒有回答我就是說這個調查委員部長到底是不是有掌握這個調查委員有沒有得到這個法律的協助有這個調查委員有好應該是說我們其實有把這個如果需要法律上面協助的話其實我們都應該提供他們法律資源上面的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
675.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
701.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我想因為上次部長有特別請我就是說提供這些被騷擾委員的資料那我又打電話那今天就直接給部長那我想事實的真相也都很清楚你們其實大概也都知道哪個委員哪些委員被騷擾了那我要在這裡再重新提醒一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
702.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
730.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所有的這個霸凌的被害者被霸凌的人還有出庭的證人還有按照不法侵害指引將葉秀珊調離主管職的首長再加調查委員這些人通通都被告所以我上次才會說欸搞不好我講完這件事下一個被告的會是我這些人按照常理判斷這些都是應該被告的人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
732.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
758.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
嗯但是他們都只要是只要是有遵守程序正義然後完成這相關的專業的霸淫的調查當然我們都不應該被要要要想問一下部長的壓力大家會不會想說為什麼他有這麼大的底氣敢這麼做他有這麼大的底氣為什麼可以拿到這些名單我接下來我就是想追這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
762.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
765.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
誰手上可以掌握名單有哪些人部長知道嗎你可以能夠掌握調查委員名單的有哪些那你可以去那個消去法嗎你可以去了解可以去排除嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
791.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
814.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這是你下一個功課我們可以來了解這個他知道這個調查委員的原因是什麼可是我還是要說我們並沒有因為任何這些這些發生過程裡面發生這些狀況就去更改這個霸凌調查的結果甚至是人事處理的結果我已經講了人事處理的結果跟霸凌調查的結果這事情我們是很明確的我今天的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
815.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
841.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你要這樣講我給你們肯定但是我今天的重點就是調查委員名單洩漏這件事情如果今天你沒有把那個源頭揪出來那後續會發生什麼事未來的這些霸凌案外部這個調查委員一個一個都會被騷擾一個一個都要跑法院不是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
842.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
871.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們會來盡量避免然後我覺得我們會把這件事情當然如果有相關的資訊的話我們可以再來瞭解但是我覺得最重要的事情是我們並沒有因為任何這個過程裡面發生這些事情不是你已經講很多次我們耳朵都很好我們都知道也沒有人怪你這件事情我就是緊咬為什麼調查委員名單會洩漏嘛所以我說部長你下一個功課你回去好好查一查為什麼這些名單會洩漏嘛我們這件事不是講完就算了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
873.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
876.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
不是嗎 搞不好後面還有下一個葉秀珊的長官包庇 給他名單要不要去查一下 到底是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
885.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
905.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
跟我們說明第一個我們沒有包庇這裡面任何一個被調查的不是啦你沒有調查清楚就大家就會認為你包庇我們沒有包庇任何一個被調查者所以我們也沒有去改後面的包括因為他說了什麼事情就是說他叫陳立堯陳立堯部長你要弄清楚我沒有說你包庇喔我是說他的誰有在協助他給他名單請你查清楚嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
906.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
933.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好我這部分就是為什麼他會知道明天這事情我們當然可以來瞭解對嘛你一定要查清楚嘛我們可以來瞭解這件事情可是我們絕對沒有包庇這裡面的任何一個被調查者對好啦我們就不要轉移焦點你只要查到為什麼會這樣好那如果裡面還有在亂栽贓沒關係我東西我們就慢慢拿出來大家等著瞧看要自己承認還是要這樣子很難看的拿出來好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
935.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
937.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好,謝謝陳委員、謝謝主席、謝謝部長 |