| IVOD_ID |
168395 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168395 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-09T11:58:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-09T12:09:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc731070286e4a3ad920a49e36d97d29c5f155eb231b4402889142e1c090ea04b925ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊曜 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:58:35 - 12:09:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、經濟部、農業部就「防制強迫勞動與公平招募：台灣移工制度接軌國際人權與供應鏈治理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【4月8日及9日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席 主席請問一下洪部長有請洪部長部長好部長我還是問一下有關巨大公司在台灣生產的自行車和零組件在美國被暫扣令暫扣住了原因是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.729 |
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違反使用強迫勞動生產的商品進入美國原因大概這樣子我想要請問一下這一件事情是去年九月到現在勞動部在後續有沒有對該公司進行相關的勞檢以及協助該公司因應的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.412 |
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根本說明其實在9月底的時候我們其實就有進場針對美方目前針對該公司的5點的部分其實也協助去做他現場的一些檢視跟給予一些建議那當然後續這家公司巨大公司其實他也做出應該是蠻實質的改善所以他目前對國際的要求也有 |
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78.749 |
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很清楚的理解也應該提出了蠻具體的改善所以現在其實應該是在後續的集合跟相關的報告文件的檢閱之中就是說我這邊的資料是這樣子就是9月底發生了以後呢勞動部這邊去稽查大概也沒有查到我們那次不是去稽查我們是去現場看然後給予這個相關的一些建議改善的建議 |
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那就是也沒有發現很大的問題對不對其實的確會有一些部分有改善的空間有改善的空間我請問一下部長就是除了美國其實歐盟在2027年開始大概也要開始適用禁止強迫勞動 |
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產品規章啦齁那國企業在保障勞動權益上國內合法跟國際標準落差有沒有這個現象我們有解釋相關的法規那假如有的話現在在11項的指標裡面比方說我們看到 |
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不得留置勞工證件的部分的法規的強度的確有需要再強化所以這也是為什麼我們今天在行政院院會裡面其實已經列為討論案接下來就要送到立法院來做修法的審議在救福法的部分這是一個部分那另外一個部分就是扣留證件的部分我們覺得法規上的確有強化的需要 |
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165.919 |
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191.448 |
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第二個部分就是針對這個抵債勞務的部分會有人說有些人會說叫債務約束債務約束的部分就會是關於讓移工來付相關的招募費或相關的仲介費的部分也需要改也需要做出法規上面調整的改革那這部分我們是目前是以一個大概三年的時間作為給企業的調整是不是就是今年二月發布的參考指引 |
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192.808 |
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參考指引是其中的一部分參考指引不是只針對DSAO參考指引我們是針對11個ILO的強迫勞動的指標項目裡面都在這裡面告訴大家應該要怎麼做同時也告訴企業要怎麼去檢視自己的風險我舉個例子其實有一些企業他可能連跟人力仲介他都沒有簽合約 |
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216.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以甚至沒有進到履約管理的邏輯裡面的時候他可能就會變成是在強迫勞動相關裡面相對比較高風險的狀態所以我們的指引就是來協助企業去檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
229.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他目前他的聘僱的模式裡面在強迫勞動的風險上面的高或低那他要有能力去辨識才會有能力去管理那部長既然講到這一點就是這個就是可以立即積極去做的事情是這是一定要積極做的因為有一些企業主特別是微型企業其實他可能也有聘僱移工可是呢他在法規範也好在企業概念上也好他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
277.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
可能相關的知識儲備是不足的所以我們發布了指引以後不是只是把指引發布完就沒事了是後續的宣導包括輔導的機制都是要同時上路進行那這部分是跟經濟部跟經濟部的包括他們的產發署其實都在針對這個部分來向企業來去宣導輔導的合作這個要趕快做因為強迫勞動呢畢竟還是以 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
抵債勞務為最主要的點然後向外擴張就會產生很多誘騙控制剝削威脅等等的支配勞工手段那我大概知道你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
338.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有一個指引出來可是現在現在的救福法上面並沒有強制規沒有強制雇主必須要負擔乙公母國的中介費用其實就是為什麼說抵債勞務就是因為有欠錢嘛對不對那我們在救福法上面沒有沒有相關的強制的規定那 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
339.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
在政策工具上可能勞動部還是要想一下怎麼去促進企業願意遵守剛剛講的那個質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
371.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
針對抵債勞務的部分我們目前就是預計有一個三年的調適期來去做相關法規的修訂就是希望在這裡面有一個更明確的法規的律定其實來去處理這個問題不過這的確因為涉及到就像剛剛委員說我們有很多的中小企業所以這些中小企業是需要給他一點法規的調適期所以我們大概設定了一個三年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
393.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
部長我還是要幫你們講一下就是說移工跟台灣的特別是中小企業之間的權益保障確實怎麼橫平這個確實是一件很困難的事情所以最快的方法就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
395.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
怎麼落實執聘中心的功能因為執聘中心我們是除了收取相關規費以外是沒有任何仲介費用的對不對我們希望降低仲介人力仲介應該是說選擇執聘的方法的模式裡面其中一個核心就是國對國的選工對然後除了國對國以外對於移工的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
424.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
450.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
或者是把中介費用轉嫁到台灣的中小企業就不管哪一邊負擔都可以降低那我請教一下部長我們在這個是部裡面的數據這114年國內引進移工人數大概有86萬透過執聘中心引進的人數是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
452.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
469.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
應該部長那邊有資料嗎蠻低的蠻低的不高對蠻低的那我們剛剛已經先討論了就是職聘中心的可以可以達到很多經濟上的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
494.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
從保障移工也好 從扶植台灣的中小企業也好執聘中心就是有很大的功能那為什麼會在86萬人裡面 透過執聘的比例那麼低我們其實在過去幾個月 其實我們做了檢討有幾個原因 第一個 的確我們在政府執聘中心已經成立多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
497.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
521.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在97年到現在其實時間蠻長的然後最近最近才開始好好那最近最近檢討有幾個部分我們認為我們必須要來做了第一個部分是關於職聘中心的據點其實應該要增加這個這個這個資資訊我有齁不過我還是要要跟跟部長提醒一下就是說功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
522.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
543.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
要先看它現在目前的功能跟管道是不是有問題可能並不是單純的多點就可以提升它的功能所以我把幾個部分這樣跟委員說明其實據點的增加是其中一個部分另外幾個更重要的部分是我們在職聘或者說我們在聘僱過程的程序要簡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
545.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
554.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就是程序簡化程序必須簡化第二個是我們在跟來源國談的國對國的引進的這個部分的量能跟穩定度也必須要提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
577.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以有在境外的部分國對國的部分的量能穩定度要提高但這會涉及到要跟來源國的討論跟這個合作那再來說我們更很重要的事情是我們自己在聘僱的過程裡面如果程序過度繁複的話就會讓很多的僱主他自己即便他想做可是因為過度繁複他會覺得行政成本太高所以也會 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
578.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
比較降低意願這部分也必須改變所以從據點到我們的流程到國外的討論這些事情都缺一不可因為等一下還有法案要協商然後我就簡單做個做個 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
596.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
625.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
做個結論就是說我的看法是殖病中心其實可能是目前想得到最可以保障各方權益的方式是那部長剛剛講了三點就是國對國之間這個可能不是我們單方面可以做的但我們要努力對那增設據點的部分我覺得你們應該要排在比較後面一點簡化流程然後加強宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
627.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
655.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我並不覺得說在台北設一個職聘中心沒有辦法達到職聘中心原有的功能在全台多設幾個可以這個供部長做參考我們下一次有機會我們就這個問題再做深入一點的探討好不好好謝謝部長好謝謝養藥委員發言接下來請邱正軍委員發言 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-04-09T11:58:40.793000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-04-09T11:58:40.933000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-04-09T11:58:41.713000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-04-09T11:58:41.954000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請洪部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-04-09T11:58:41.954000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-04-09T11:58:42.114000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
有請洪部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-04-09T11:58:42.114000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-04-09T11:58:43.114000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
楊委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-04-09T11:58:42.114000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-04-09T11:58:42.134000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
部長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-04-09T11:58:42.174000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-04-09T11:59:13.796000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
部長，我還是問一下，有關巨大公司在臺灣生產的自行車和零組件在美國被暫扣令暫扣住了，原因是違反使用強迫勞動生產的商品進入美國，大概是這樣。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.984 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-04-09T11:59:14.857000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-04-09T11:59:27.090000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
我想要請問，這件事情是去年9月到現在，勞動部後續有沒有對該公司進行相關的勞檢以及協助該公司因應的措施？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-04-09T11:59:28.932000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-04-09T11:59:44.583000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
跟委員說明，其實在9月底的時候，我們就有進場針對美方對於該公司的那5點，協助去做現場的一些檢視跟給予一些建議。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.898 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-04-09T11:59:45.083000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-04-09T12:00:02.533000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
當然後續巨大公司其實也做出蠻實質的改善，目前對國際的要求也有很清楚的理解，也應該提出了蠻具體的改善，現在是在後續的稽核跟相關報告文件的檢閱中。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.97 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-04-09T12:00:04.233000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-04-09T12:00:11.316000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
我這邊的資料是這樣，9月底發生了以後，勞動部去稽查，大概也沒有查到什麼問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.879 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-04-09T12:00:12.777000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-04-09T12:00:19.480000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
我們那次不是去稽查，是去現場看，然後給予相關的一些建議、改善的建議。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-04-09T12:00:22.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-04-09T12:00:25.162000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
也沒有發現很大的問題，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-04-09T12:00:25.162000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-04-09T12:00:27.384000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
其實的確有一些部分有改善的空間。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-04-09T12:00:27.384000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-04-09T12:00:29.925000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
有改善的空間？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-04-09T12:00:30.225000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-04-09T12:00:54.183000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
請問部長，除了美國，其實歐盟在2027年大概也要開始適用禁止強迫勞動產品規章，我國企業在保障勞動權益上，在國內合法但跟國際標準落差，有沒有這個現象？ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.953 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-04-09T12:00:55.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-04-09T12:00:56.966000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
我們有檢視相關的法規。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-04-09T12:00:57.106000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-04-09T12:00:58.247000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
假如有的話，部長要怎麼處理？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.417 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-04-09T12:00:58.247000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-04-09T12:01:06.253000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
現在在11項的指標裡，比方說我們看到不得留置勞工證件部分的法規強度的確有需要再強化。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-04-09T12:01:06.973000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-04-09T12:01:15.297000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
這也是為什麼我們今天在行政院院會已經列為討論案，接下來就要送到立法院來做修法的審議，在就服法的部分，這是一個。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.961 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-04-09T12:01:15.297000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-04-09T12:01:17.578000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
就是扣留證件的部分。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.222 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-04-09T12:01:17.578000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-04-09T12:01:20.059000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
扣留證件的部分，我們覺得法規的確有強化的需要。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-04-09T12:01:20.919000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-04-09T12:01:36.464000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
第二個就是針對抵債勞務的部分，有些人會說是債務約束，債務約束就是讓移工付相關的招募費或仲介費，這部分也需要做出法規調整的改革。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-04-09T12:01:37.685000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-04-09T12:01:41.946000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
我們目前是以大概三年的時間，作為給企業的調適期。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-04-09T12:01:42.106000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-04-09T12:01:48.088000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
是不是今年2月發布的參考指引？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-04-09T12:01:48.248000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-04-09T12:02:04.333000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
是其中的一部分，參考指引不是只針對抵債勞務，針對11個ILO的強迫勞動指標項目，參考指引裡面都有告訴大家應該要怎麼做，同時也告訴企業要怎麼檢視自己的風險。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.871 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-04-09T12:02:04.333000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-04-09T12:02:19.288000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
我舉個例子，其實有一些企業可能連跟人力仲介都沒有簽合約，甚至沒有進到履約管理的邏輯裡，這時候可能就會變成在強迫勞動指標裡相對比較高風險的狀態。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-04-09T12:02:20.410000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-04-09T12:02:32.704000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
我們的指引就是來協助企業，檢視他目前的聘僱模式在強迫勞動風險的高或低，他要有能力辨識，才會有能力去管理。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-04-09T12:02:34.004000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-04-09T12:02:39.846000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
部長既然講到這一點，這個就是可以立即積極去做的事情。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-04-09T12:02:40.106000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-04-09T12:02:40.847000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
是，這是一定要積極做的。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-04-09T12:02:41.227000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-04-09T12:02:56.733000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
因為有一些企業主，特別是微型企業，他可能也有聘僱移工，可是他在法規範也好，在契約概念上也好，可能相關的知識儲備是不足的。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-04-09T12:02:57.034000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-04-09T12:03:00.757000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
所以我們發布指引以後，不是只是把指引發布完就沒事了。對、對。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-04-09T12:03:01.597000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-04-09T12:03:06.381000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
後續的宣導，包括輔導的機制都要同時上路進行。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-04-09T12:03:06.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-04-09T12:03:11.305000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
這部分我們是跟經濟部，包括他們的產發署，其實都在針對這個部分向企業宣導、輔導的合作。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-04-09T12:03:11.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-04-09T12:03:11.585000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
這個要趕快做。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-04-09T12:03:11.605000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-04-09T12:03:41.688000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
因為強迫勞動，畢竟還是以抵債勞務為最主要的點，然後向外擴張，就會產生很多誘騙、控制、剝削、威脅等等的支配勞工手段。 |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-04-09T12:03:43.029000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-04-09T12:03:58.999000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
我大概知道你們有一個指引出來，可是現在的就服法並沒有強制規範，也沒有強制雇主必須要負擔移工母國的仲介費用。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.86 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-04-09T12:04:02.601000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-04-09T12:04:03.962000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
為什麼說抵債勞務？ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-04-09T12:04:03.962000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-04-09T12:04:04.862000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
就是因為有欠錢嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-04-09T12:04:07.024000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-04-09T12:04:23.180000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
但我們的就服法對此並沒有相關的強制規定，所以在政策工具上，可能勞動部還是要想一下，怎麼去促進企業願意遵守剛剛講的那個指引。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.807 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-04-09T12:04:25.289000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-04-09T12:04:38.074000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
委員，針對抵債勞務的部分，我們目前預計會有3年的調適期去做相關法規的修訂，就是希望在這裡面有一個更明確的法規律定去處理這個問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.949 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-04-09T12:04:38.074000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-04-09T12:04:46.618000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
不過這的確涉及到像剛剛委員所說的，我們有很多的中小企業，是需要給這些中小企業一點法規的調適期，所以我們大概設定3年的時間。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.893 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-04-09T12:04:48.048000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-04-09T12:05:12.745000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
部長，我還是要跟你們講一下，移工跟臺灣、特別是中小企業之間的權益保障要怎麼衡平確實是一件很困難的事情，所以最快的方法就是怎麼落實直聘中心的功能。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.926 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-04-09T12:05:14.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-04-09T12:05:21.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
因為在直聘中心除了收取相關規費以外，是沒有任何仲介費用的，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-04-09T12:05:21.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-04-09T12:05:31.336000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
我們希望降低人力仲介……應該是說選擇直聘的方法與模式的話，裡面其中一個核心就是國對國的選工，這是它的核心。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.792 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-04-09T12:05:32.937000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-04-09T12:05:38.120000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
對，然後除了國對國以外，對於移工的負擔…… |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-04-09T12:05:38.120000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-04-09T12:05:39.221000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
都會低很多。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-04-09T12:05:39.221000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-04-09T12:05:48.867000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
或者是把仲介費用轉嫁到臺灣的中小企業，不管哪一邊負擔，都可以降低。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.967 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-04-09T12:05:48.867000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-04-09T12:05:51.508000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
對，都可以降低。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-04-09T12:05:51.508000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-04-09T12:06:05.737000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
部長，依據部裡面的數據，114年國內引進移工人數大概有86萬，請問透過直聘中心引進的人數是多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.872 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-04-09T12:06:07.660000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-04-09T12:06:10.042000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
部長那邊資料嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-04-09T12:06:10.042000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-04-09T12:06:10.222000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
應該滿低的。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-04-09T12:06:11.202000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-04-09T12:06:11.383000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
滿低的？ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-04-09T12:06:11.543000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-04-09T12:06:11.663000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
對，不高。 |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-04-09T12:06:12.903000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-04-09T12:06:13.184000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
對，滿低的。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-04-09T12:06:13.464000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-04-09T12:06:40.900000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
我們剛剛已經先討論了直聘中心可以達到很多經濟上的目的，從保障移工也好，從扶植臺灣的中小企業也好，直聘中心就是有很大的功能，為什麼在86萬人裡面，透過直聘的比例那麼低？ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-04-09T12:06:42.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-04-09T12:06:47.605000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
跟委員說明，其實在過去幾個月我們有做了檢討，這有幾個原因，第一個，的確我們在政府的部分…… |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.744 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-04-09T12:06:47.905000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-04-09T12:06:49.687000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
直聘中心已經成立多久了？ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-04-09T12:06:53.332000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-04-09T12:06:54.673000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
97年到現在，其實時間滿長了。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-04-09T12:06:54.934000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:00.939000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
然後最近才開始檢討…… |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-04-09T12:07:00.939000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:06.924000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
有幾個部分我們認為必須要來做，第一個部分是關於直聘中心的據點應該要增加，因為現在只有一處據點…… |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-04-09T12:07:10.827000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:22.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
這個資訊我有，不過我還是要跟部長提醒一下，要先看它目前的功能跟管道是不是有問題？ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-04-09T12:07:22.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:27.687000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
可能並不是單純的多點就可以提升它的功能，你懂我的意思嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.769 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-04-09T12:07:28.748000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:29.728000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
對，我就這幾個部分跟委員說明。 |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.692 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-04-09T12:07:30.729000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:35.271000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
其實據點的增加是其中一個部分，另外幾個更重要的部分是…… |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-04-09T12:07:35.271000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:36.271000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
部長，你簡單…… |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2026-04-09T12:07:36.131000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:38.673000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
在直聘或是在聘僱過程的程序要簡化…… |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2026-04-09T12:07:40.414000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:41.116000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
就是程序簡化？ |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2026-04-09T12:07:41.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:42.017000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
程序必須簡化。 |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2026-04-09T12:07:42.598000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2026-04-09T12:07:59.709000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
第二個是我們在跟來源國談國對國引進部分的量能跟穩定度也必須要提高，所以，在境外的部分、國對國的部分，量能跟穩定度要提高，但這會涉及到要跟來源國討論與合作。 |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.972 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2026-04-09T12:08:00.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2026-04-09T12:08:16.377000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
再來，很重要的事情是我們自己在聘僱的過程裡面，如果程序過度繁複的話，就會讓很多雇主即便他自己想做，可是因為過度繁複，他會覺得行政成本太高，所以也會比較降低意願，這部分也必須改變。 |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2026-04-09T12:08:16.377000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2026-04-09T12:08:22.423000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
所以從據點、到我們的流程、再到與國外的討論，這些事情都缺一不可。 |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2026-04-09T12:08:23.784000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2026-04-09T12:08:32.554000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
部長，因為等一下還有法案要協商，我就簡單做個結論。 |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2026-04-09T12:08:33.754000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2026-04-09T12:08:50.623000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
我的看法是直聘中心其實可能是目前想得到最可以保障各方權益的方式，部長剛剛講的三點，國對國之間的這個部分可能不是我們單方面可以做的…… |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0.903 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2026-04-09T12:08:51.123000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2026-04-09T12:08:52.644000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
但我們要努力。對。 |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2026-04-09T12:08:53.884000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2026-04-09T12:09:18.074000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
增設據點的部分，我覺得你們應該要排在比較後面一點，簡化流程，然後加強宣導，我並不覺得在臺北設一個直聘中心沒有辦法達到直聘中心原有的功能，在全臺多設幾個就可以，這個供部長做參考。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2026-04-09T12:09:20.094000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2026-04-09T12:09:24.576000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
下一次有機會，我們就這個問題再做深入一點的探討，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2026-04-09T12:09:24.576000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2026-04-09T12:09:25.576000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
當然，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2026-04-09T12:09:24.756000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2026-04-09T12:09:28.057000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。 |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2026-04-09T12:09:28.057000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2026-04-09T12:09:28.597000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
謝謝楊曜委員發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2026-04-09T12:09:29.077000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2026-04-09T12:09:30.558000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
接下來請邱鎮軍委員發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
0.909 |