| IVOD_ID |
168291 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168291 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-23-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-08T10:57:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-08T11:08:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/70d8fc05dcd8abb05c19431302300f81f747912251df08273efd812baa63ee588a94a20e7e7dac435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳清龍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:57:30 - 11:08:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長林宜敬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【4月8日及9日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝主席那邀請我們市華部我們林部長來 請林部長陳委員長安好 部長早那我在這邊先一個簡單的問題是 請問部長我們的這個治安院就是我們國家自動安全研究院嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
47.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這一個行政法人應該我們部長這邊管轄的到吧監督的到吧是我們今天院長也有來嗎不是 這個是我們專屬署長好 署長 那院長有來嗎有 也請院長好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
75.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
院長好像上洗手間好 待會請他也培訓那我判斷我也可以很精確的來確認我們部長這邊對我們治安院絕對有監督的一個責任那治安院就我了解目前有兩個問題一個問題就是治安院本身內部 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
80.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們的同仁資安院的同仁有涉及我們院內的一個機密、敏感的文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
109.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
上傳到雲端啊然後讓各界自由的下載那這個案子啊那也經由我們的北檢去處理嘛那我們的同仁好像最後也都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
126.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個有交保嘛是這個案保證你知道嗎我知道先簡單的說明一下這個案是你了解嗎我們治安院院長說明這些事情分三個方面講第一個就是說這件事情是我們治安院主動發現主動找調查局來調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
143.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
然後第二點是說發現的事情是說那個院內有同仁他利用駭客的手法去閱讀他不應該閱讀的文件然後第三個部分是說他拿到這些文件以後是內部的同仁自己在看還是說外部在看嘛這件事情我們還在調查還在調查當中那其實我們檢調單位也出手了對不對這三位可能有三位吧這同仁現在也在交保候傳嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那這樣的案子在我們國家級的一個治安的一個單位產生這樣的一個狀況好 還好是你們內部發現了 主動報案了那我請問院長 這樣的事情會再發生嗎我們內部人員的管控 我們有什麼機制可以來防止這樣的事件再發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
209.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
您有什麼因應作為嗎還是跟報案調查我們主動找調查局介入調查主動我們了解嘛我現在就是的原因是因為我們擔心他資料有沒有外洩的問題有沒有透過他的手機或個人的使用的電腦外洩那因為他的個人的這個還在調查當中嗎我OK跟手機是不是我們沒有權限去調查對 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以你們交給調查局調查局嘛就我了解我現在要確認的我們已經發生這樣的漏洞再來你自然院你怎麼去防止這樣的案件類似的事件再發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們做了幾件事就技術上我們做了很多漏洞的檢測因為這個是一個內部的系統公文的系統的漏洞那我們做了很多檢測也通知這個公文的系統有用有數加機你已經知道這個嚴重性了吧所以我們治安院在這樣的一個治安漏洞至少我在這邊也提醒你不是光報案再來我們要怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
284.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
防範這是重點嘛第二個 資安院還有一個問題就是人事管理的問題人事管理的問題我在這邊我要跟部長講我辦公室也接獲到這個人民的一個監舉一個陳情那我循正常程序跟你資安院要所知要資料你們竟然不給 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
313.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你們竟然不給好這是第一個你們說我要了解國家資通安全研究院主管任用及加級資歷要點我需要這樣的資料了解你的人員任用結果你對我的辦公室是這是屬於內部的管理文件未曾對外公佈所以不被提供給本席但是在這樣的一個資料過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
315.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
339.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們已經看到治安院剛剛我講了在治安啊這管理有漏洞有粗暴但是你在人事任用今天給你用行政法人我了解就是要讓你更有彈性任用更有彈性但是你在這個調查裡面你回覆這樣的人員調查後你看他的結論有關主管任用案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
346.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
371.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
合宜的宜就代表既然你的調查報告用這個宜字就代表沒有嘛所以你的調查報告才會用這個宜這個字嘛那就代表你這個人員啊責任用沒有照你這樣子一個要點來辦理那在這個過程當中當然我尊重民治安院的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
372.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
398.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
禁用但是既然我們國會辦公室收到了人民的檢舉案陳情案我們要鎖職你竟然不給那也從這個資料判斷這個人員的任用應該是有狀況但是你們也置之不理置之不理所以在這個過程是不是請院長你能夠針對我剛剛的這兩個問題請你回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
402.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
418.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
委員所知的資料我們可以給的我們都會給這一個部分沒有給的原因是我內部的同仁跟我表示說這個部分不能給院長你認為不能給我請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
420.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
436.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
可以不可以給這個資料是機密資料嗎一個這個主管任用期加期的指令要件不能給連這個都不能給來 部長可以給嗎如果是你 可以給嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
437.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個因為要看那個那個各個法人因為他是自然院士抒發部下屬的行政法人所以他說不給就不給那我你的預算該給我們也可以不給啊沒有這個有法律規定那個有哪些是 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
459.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
477.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那我要資料你說不給就不給你部長也不敢講說應該要給這樣的資料的機密嘛我們今天要一個資料你一個治安院說不給就不給那你的人員的任用從你的調查報告看出來就是有瑕疵有問號 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
481.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
502.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你也不處理那我請問我請問你們去做這個調查案這樣的一個報告完你們怎麼做有人要資料不給然後人員你們那部調查完之後認為沒事情但是從文字裡面可以發覺就是有狀況有問題怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
529.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們自己的內規在更早以前訂的內規我們檢討以後發現不合時宜所以我們做了修改是因為這件事情做了修改嗎有幾個case我們內部的幾個case會不符合那一個內規所以我們做了修正所以你們的內規一直在修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
529.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
547.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以委員辦公室要鎖這個內規來資料來瞭解你們不提供所以你們就是自己內部自己來調整自己來因人來辦理因人來調整這樣的規定對不對所以不敢提供給 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
547.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
552.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為那個內規定的時間比較久因為內規定的時間比較久那前面已經有幾個case是聘任的時候不符合就因人設施嘛因人把內規調整在我接任之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
565.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
569.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在我之前因為在聘的時候沒有去注意到那個內規那後來發現聘了有幾位是不符合的然後就修正了那個內規我在這裡還是要跟專院院長來再次的告知 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
584.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
611.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們委員大家一視同仁 所知該給就給 不是提供資料第二個 既然你的內規任用人士可以因人而挑戰那就代表沒有制度 這個制度就是走一個形式那在這裡我也要要求你的這個人事任用的制度絕對要建立起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
613.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
626.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這就是一個要求啦這件事情我們有深刻檢討這兩個破口你一定要處理出來嘛對不對 治安院有一個治安破口人事任用的一個漏點一定要把它補起來嘛我們深刻檢討 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
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2026-04-08T10:57:37.136000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-04-08T10:57:39.759000+08:00 |
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謝謝主席，邀請數發部林部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-04-08T10:57:39.759000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-04-08T10:57:39.899000+08:00 |
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請林部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-04-08T10:57:39.899000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-04-08T10:57:39.919000+08:00 |
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陳委員早安。 |
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0.8 |
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陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-04-08T10:57:40.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-04-08T10:57:40.199000+08:00 |
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部長早。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
1 |
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陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-04-08T10:57:40.279000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-04-08T10:58:07.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
我這邊先問一個簡單的問題，請問部長，我們的資安院就是國家資通安全研究院，這一個行政法人我們部長這邊應該管轄得到吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.868 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-04-08T10:58:07.860000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-04-08T10:58:08.661000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
監督得到？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-04-08T10:58:09.682000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-04-08T10:58:11.203000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
今天院長也有來吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-04-08T10:58:11.203000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-04-08T10:58:13.185000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
不是，這位是資安署署長。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-04-08T10:58:13.185000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-04-08T10:58:16.748000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
好，那院長有來嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-04-08T10:58:17.369000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-04-08T10:58:17.930000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
請院長好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-04-08T10:58:20.424000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-04-08T10:58:21.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
院長好像上洗手間了。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-04-08T10:58:21.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-04-08T10:58:22.906000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
好，待會請他也來備詢。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-04-08T10:58:25.467000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-04-08T10:59:27.139000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
依我判斷，我可以很精確的確認部長對資安院絕對有監督的責任，資安院的部分就我了解目前有兩個問題，一個問題是資安院本身內部有家賊，就是內賊，資安院的同仁有涉及院內的機密，把敏感的文件上傳到雲端，讓各界去下載，這個案子也經由北檢去處理，而同仁最後好像也都有交保，這個案子部長知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.827 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-04-08T10:59:27.139000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-04-08T10:59:31.444000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
我知道，我先簡單的說明一下，等一下請資安院院長說明。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.739 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-04-08T10:59:31.444000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-04-08T10:59:32.444000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
這個案子你了解嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.125 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-04-08T10:59:31.964000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-04-08T10:59:51.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
這件事情分三個方面來講，第一個是這件事情是我們資安院主動發現、主動找調查局來調查；第二個是發現院內有同仁利用駭客的手法去閱讀他不應該閱讀的文件；第三個部分是他拿到這些文件以後，是內部的同仁自己在看還是說有外部…… |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.919 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-04-08T10:59:51.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-04-08T10:59:51.642000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
還是外部在看嘛，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-04-08T10:59:51.803000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-04-08T10:59:52.263000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
這件事情我們還在調查。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-04-08T10:59:52.283000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-04-08T10:59:52.603000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
還在調查當中，其實我們檢調單位也出手了，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-04-08T10:59:52.603000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-04-08T10:59:52.783000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
這三位同仁，可能有三位吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-04-08T10:59:52.943000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:25.169000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
現在也在交保候傳，這樣的案子在我們國家級的資安單位發生，還好是你們內部發現了主動報案，我請問院長，這樣的事情會再發生嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:25.169000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:32.834000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
我們對內部人員的管控，有什麼機制可以來防止這樣的事件再發生？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:33.855000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:36.316000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
你們有什麼因應作為嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:36.316000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:36.776000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
還是只有報案就結束了？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:38.337000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:40.858000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
跟委員報告，我們主動找調查局介入…… |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:41.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:42.018000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
主動，我們了解嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:42.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:42.738000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
我現在是…… |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:43.158000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:48.320000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
原因是因為我們擔心他資料有沒有外洩的問題。對。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.952 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:48.320000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:54.563000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
有沒有透過他的手機或個人使用的電腦外洩，因為他個人的家裡電腦…… |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.862 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:55.483000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:56.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
這個還在調查當中，我OK。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:57.644000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-04-08T11:00:59.864000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
跟手機，是不是我們沒有權限去調查？ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-04-08T11:00:59.884000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-04-08T11:01:02.906000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
對，所以你們請調查局嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-04-08T11:01:02.906000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-04-08T11:01:03.206000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
所以交給調查局。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-04-08T11:01:04.326000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-04-08T11:01:04.706000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
這我了解。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-04-08T11:01:04.706000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-04-08T11:01:05.706000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
這是第一個…… |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-04-08T11:01:05.407000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-04-08T11:01:17.492000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
我現在要確認的，我們已經發生這樣的漏洞，再來資安院怎麼去防止類似的事件再發生？ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-04-08T11:01:18.132000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-04-08T11:01:33.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
我們做了幾件事，就技術上我們做了很多漏洞的檢測，因為這是一個內部公文系統的漏洞，我們做了很多檢測，也通知了數家有用這個公文系統的機關。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.887 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-04-08T11:01:33.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-04-08T11:01:50.353000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
了解，你已經知道這個嚴重性了，所以資安院面對這樣一個資安漏洞，至少我在這邊要提醒你，不是光報案，再來我們要怎麼防範，這是重點。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-04-08T11:01:51.253000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-04-08T11:03:09.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
第二個，資安院還有一個問題，就是人事管理的問題，我在這邊也要跟部長講，我辦公室也接獲到人民的檢舉、陳情，我循正常程序跟資安院要資料，你們竟然不給，這是第一個，我需要國家資通安全研究院主管任用及加給支領要點來了解你們的人員任用，結果你對我的辦公室說，這屬於內部的管理文件，未曾對外公布，所以不便提供給本席，但是在這樣的索資過程當中，我們已經看到資安院在資安的管理上有漏洞、有出包，在人事任用上，今天讓你們成立行政法人就是要讓你們更有彈性，但是在這個調查報告裡面，你看你們回復的結論：「有關主管任用案，宜確實依據院內規定……。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.834 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-04-08T11:03:16.267000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-04-08T11:03:35.596000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
」，「宜」是「合宜」的「宜」，用這個「宜」字就代表沒有，所以你的調查報告才會用「宜」這個字，就代表你的人員任用沒有照要點來辦理。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-04-08T11:03:36.997000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:08.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
在這個過程當中，當然我尊重資安院的人員進用，但是我們國會辦公室收到了人民的檢舉案、陳情案，我們要索資，你竟然不給；我們也從這個資料判斷人員的任用應該是有狀況的，但是你們也置之不理，所以是不是請院長能夠針對我剛剛的這兩個問題回答？ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:12.282000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:17.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
委員要索取的資料，我們可以給的我們都會給…… |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.842 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:17.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:18.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
就沒給啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:17.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:26.598000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
這一個部分沒有給的原因，是我們內部的同仁跟我表示，這個部分不能給。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.967 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:26.598000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:28.180000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
好，院長，你認為不能給我。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:28.180000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:32.284000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
那我請問部長，可以不可以給？ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:32.284000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:34.266000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
這個資料是機密資料嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:36.649000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:41.815000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
主管任用及加給的支領要點不能給？ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:41.815000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:43.497000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
連這個都不能給？來！ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:43.497000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:45.439000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
部長可以給嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:45.439000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:46.660000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
如果是你，可以給嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:47.881000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:53.263000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
這個要看各個法人，因為資安院是數發部下屬的行政法人。對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.615 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:53.383000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:54.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
我知道它是一個行政法人，所以他說不給就不給？ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.65 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:54.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:55.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
對，他照理說他應該要…… |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:54.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:54.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
那你的預算該給，我們也可以不給啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:54.943000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-04-08T11:04:56.764000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
沒有，這個有法律規定，那個有哪些是…… |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-04-08T11:04:56.764000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-04-08T11:05:03.176500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
對啊，好…… |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-04-08T11:05:03.176500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-04-08T11:05:09.589000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
他這個應該做他們的機密等級分級。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-04-08T11:05:09.589000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-04-08T11:05:16.033000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
所以，好，那我要資料，你說不給就不給，部長也不敢講說應該要給，這樣的資料有機密嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-04-08T11:05:16.673000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-04-08T11:05:41.869000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
我們今天要一個資料，資安院說不給就不給，你的人員任用從你的調查報告看出來就是有瑕疵，你也不處理，那我請問你們去調查完之後你們怎麼做？ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.951 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-04-08T11:05:43.810000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-04-08T11:05:52.696000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
委員要資料不給，然後人員任用你們內部調查完之後認為沒事情，但是從文字裡面可以發覺就是有狀況、有問題，怎麼處理？ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-04-08T11:05:55.780000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:05.485000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
我們自己在更早以前訂的內規，我們檢討以後發現不合時宜，所以我們有做了修改。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:06.206000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:08.547000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
是因為這件事情做了修改嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:08.547000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:15.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
有幾個case，我們內部有幾個case會不符合那一個內規，所以我們做了修正，那…… |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:16.831000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:37.249000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
所以你們的內規一直在修正，委員辦公室要索取這個內規的資料來了解，你們不提供，所以你們就是自己內部來調整，自己因人來辦理、因人來調整這樣的規定，所以不敢提供給委員？ |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0.919 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:37.850000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:38.230000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
因為那個內規訂的時間比較…… |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:38.230000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:39.230000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
內規隨時在變嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:38.310000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:40.733000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
因為那個內規訂的時間比較久，前面已經有幾個case是聘任的時候不符合…… |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.788 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:40.793000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:41.053000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
就因人設事嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:41.433000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:41.614000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
因人調整內規…… |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:41.634000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:42.054000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
在我接任之前…… |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:42.054000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:48.600000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
你就答復是不是這樣嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:48.600000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:55.146000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
所以索資不給。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:55.146000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:57.887000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
在我之前，因為在聘的時候沒有去注意到那個內規，後來發現聘了有幾位是不符合，然後就修正了那個內規。 |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:57.887000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:58.688000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
我在這裡還是要跟資安院院長…… |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:58.688000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2026-04-08T11:06:59.688000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
確實是有…… |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2026-04-08T11:06:58.688000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2026-04-08T11:07:41.195000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
再一次的告知，我們委員大家一視同仁，索資該給就給，不是機密資料；第二個，既然你的內規，任用人事可以因人而調整，那就代表沒有制度，這個制度就是走一個形式，在這裡我也要要求你的人事任用制度絕對要建立起來，好不好？好。 |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0.872 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2026-04-08T11:07:43.337000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2026-04-08T11:07:44.318000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
這就是一個要求啦，就是一個改進嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
0.533 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2026-04-08T11:07:45.959000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2026-04-08T11:07:48.541000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
這件事情我們有深刻檢討。 |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2026-04-08T11:07:48.541000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2026-04-08T11:07:52.124000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
這兩個破口你一定要處理，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2026-04-08T11:07:52.204000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2026-04-08T11:07:56.347000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
資安院的資安破口、人事任用的漏洞，一定要把它補起來，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
0.731 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
林院長盈達 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2026-04-08T11:07:56.427000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2026-04-08T11:07:56.487000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
我們深刻檢討，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
陳委員清龍 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2026-04-08T11:07:56.987000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2026-04-08T11:07:57.987000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
好，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2026-04-08T11:07:58.287000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2026-04-08T11:08:01.715571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
謝謝陳清龍委員，也謝謝部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2026-04-08T11:08:02.015571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2026-04-08T11:08:05.158429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
接下來請邱若華委員發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
0 |