| IVOD_ID |
168261 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168261 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-22-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-08T11:38:48+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-08T11:52:21+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/70d8fc05dcd8abb05ceabec80f3e6e1fb9b76447cfe948dbce185cfc45202cc05eb32057a8da52ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
翁曉玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:38:48 - 11:52:21 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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接下來有請翁曉琳委員質詢好謝謝主席我們首先有請那個國會會主委請吳主委好有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.608 |
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46.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我想首先要請問您的就是這個有關於國內大學每年得到的國科會研究計畫補助經費的金額還有國科會各個處事各年度核准金額的比例等等這些統計數據是機密嗎?像這些統計數據是機密嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
82.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
应该我们网站上有这些基本资料对嘛他应该都是公开的这个资料对不对是那么所以呢本席呢在3月17号就向国科会所资希望国科会能够提供近5年来国内12所顶尖大学包含台城清教等等这些学校里面每年得到的国科会专题计划的补助经费的统计数据可是为什么到了今天4月8号过了20几天 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
83.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
109.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
本席還是沒有得到你們辦公你們國科會給我的相關的資訊主委知道這件事情嗎不知道所以代表說你們下面的同仁是有欺上瞞上的這個情況嗎應該不是吧應該是行政院我也不是要甩鍋給行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
110.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
126.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就是說我們那個回復委員的這些資料現在是規定必須要經過行政院這樣所以您要一開始說你不知道說我有所知然後現在你又說是現在我要的這份資料是在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
129.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
142.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
不是在國和會所以是在哪裡我們已經報給行政院報給行政院所以呢剛剛主委還在講說這個資料它是公開的資料它不涉及機密吧連這樣子的一個所知 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
144.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
169.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個國科會主委都還要上層行政院請行政院院長核試這不是很可笑的一件事情嗎這個真的讓我都質疑就是吳主委您還能夠有一點獨立思考判斷能力嗎您現在是不是事事都要請示院長要院長核准了之後你才能夠去做決策是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
有些規定我必須要遵守這是什麼規定是定在哪個地方行政院院長你一句話就是規定喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.598 |
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201.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
他就是命令喔所以他對於你的行政指導影響很強嘛那你作為一個國科會的主委你竟然連一點這樣子的一個獨立判斷的能力都沒有真的讓本席感到非常非常的驚訝吳主委您曾經是我非常尊敬的清華大學的副校長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
225.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主委竟然連本席所要求的這樣的一個根本不算是公開機密的所知你都還可以壓在你們國會然後上層行政院然後行政院院長他不同意你就一直壓在那邊那我就在懷疑說現在國會會是有多少的相關的辦法政策主委你根本沒有決策的能力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
226.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
248.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我有在國科會的主政的項目上當然是我要負責啦可是行政論理我一定要遵守是 所以呢本席今天要求你立刻要提供給我相關的資料你也同樣是不可以給我是嗎今天在這個質詢台上面我接下來我還有另外一個所值 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
249.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
256.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我可以提供但是我按照目前的規定我必須要經過行政院總之我現在曉得了就是主委您今天的這樣的發言就讓我認為你就是一個不能夠自己做主 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
265.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
283.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
只能够事事听从上面长官的命令然后等候上级指示的木偶人本席已经了解您的态度了而且本席根本压根认为你就是不敢告诉我们现在到底这个十二所顶尖国立大学里面到底拿了多少的专题研究计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
284.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
309.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
这里面是不是可能有特别图立某些大学本席已经听到非常多来自于学界的教授们大家非常惊讶这两年通过的比率非常之低但是本席有看到发现你们的研究补助经费基本上并没有缩减那就代表说非常有可能这些计划经费是图立了哪些学校 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
311.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
331.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
如果没有的话你就应该要公开的迅速的提供给本席否则本席基本上我就会有这样的疑虑我觉得这些就是你现在国科会的问题你事事都要请示这个行政院卓荣泰你根本不敢自己去做决定好但接下来本席要讲的就是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
332.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
大家一直在质疑啊就一直在在说现在台湾的基础科学研究经费基本上是远比韩国日本还有乃至于像是瑞士美国的这些国家有明显的不足那么吴主委您在去年二月的时候你也很感慨的说台湾的投入科研数十年却没有 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
356.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
357.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
本席基本上是暗蓝认同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
381.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所谓巧妇难为无名之炊今天台湾的大学虽然说不是说没有经费做研究但是普遍的问题就是我们的研究经费不足特别是基础科学研究的经费 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
397.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
本心很在意的就说我们台湾我们政府是不是真正提供了一个足够可以让基础研究长成为世界级影响力的肥沃的土壤我们来看看的根据你国科会在去年10月底所公布的113年的全国科技动态调查 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
432.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
2024年台湾的公司部门的研发经费突破了一兆台币这个数字看起来很亮眼可是我们再看看如果把一兆的经费你拆开成为几个部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
434.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
457.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我们发现几乎是两个世界这一兆经费里面14%是来自于政府部门还有公部门的投资其他的16%基本上就是民间私部门企业的技术开发而且这些民间企业的这个科研经费主要是投资在半导体的制程的精进以及与优化 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
457.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
479.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那么对于这个台湾的基础投资对于台湾的基础研究的经费整体而言他投资的比例大概只有7.7%大概是在800大概就809亿左右所以呢事实上就是整个台湾的这个研究经费他挹注在基础科学研究的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
480.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
501.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
项目是非常非常低的在整个一兆的科研经费里面只有800多800亿左右是投入在科学研究经费里面那么所以呢我们发现就看起来台湾好像是个研发大国但是实际上更像是个应用科技的巨人基础科学研究的侏儒所以我想请教 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
503.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
524.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主委就是我國115年度的科研經費大概是1600億左右請問這1600億的科研預算當中有多少的比例是投資在基礎研究經費你說整個1600億裡面多少的比例這個數字我等一下請同仁查一下基礎研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
530.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
539.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
國科會的部分我們114年是408億只有408億114年去年今年我們成長一點本來要更高的一點是多少一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
548.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
573.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
427億就是因為我們財政收支方法使得我們今年的預算被迫要從1800億降到1600億所以剛剛委員提的議題其實就是我們預算的問題主委你不要再牽拖我們從去年到今年今年當然預算還沒有審去年的預算我們有像你們國會會任何一毛錢的預算嗎今年就是還沒有審 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
574.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
579.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以今年还没有审我现在讲是前面的事情你不要再讲说是今年的预算今年的预算确实是没有审但是你们还是可以去执行而且按照预算法的规定新增的没有办法你超出的怎么可以执行呢我们新增的计划我们来看看啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
592.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
604.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你们新兴计划我们现在立法院已经通过了30几项计划委员如果支持基础研究就赶快通过预算我们明年还要再增加好了了解了所以主委您的意思说现在所有基础研究经费全部都是靠新兴计划吗你们在年度的预算里面你们没走吗既有的计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
619.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
626.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你们年度的预算计划本来就有而这个计划你们就可以去执行所以你今天执行不能超出原来的额度啊执行不能超出原来额度啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
631.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
637.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以你要新興計畫我們也通過新興計畫問題是卓榮泰他有給嗎他不給我們現在的問題是說立法院通過新興計畫可是卓榮泰他不發給你是矛盾的你要支持基礎研究就要通過我們的預算好不好就這樣子盡快我現在要求你們要增編要增編 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
656.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
658.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
主委您今天這樣子嗆立法委員我覺得是非常不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
677.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
691.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們所要求的所有資料都不給你還有什麼臉好意思在這裡講而且你根本就是亂扯我們去年的一百一十四年度的一百一十五年度的行政會的經費來來來兩邊先停一下休息一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
699.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
709.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
五秒五秒,兩邊平心靜氣我們討論事情,也希望大家有一方面講基礎研究重要對,不好意思我正在發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
714.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
730.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我想諮詢議題有問有答是固然重要但是我們希望平心靜氣那不要用激烈的言語過當的態度來面對那也希望兩邊呢能夠繼續平心靜氣的來討論我們繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
735.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
761.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好 我現在要講的就是我也不要再浪費多的時間我就請主委你要提供給我115年度科研經費裡面大概有多少的比例是投資在基礎科學研究有多少比例是在應用科技及技術發展的部分金額比例是多少我希望國科會兩週之內就給本席一個報告請問我們主席是不是可以同意要求國科會要提供這份報告同時給我們所有的委員參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
764.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
783.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好 主委如果在剛剛所提到的這個無關於任何機密的情況之下那本來就應該擁有相關的資料應該兩個禮拜可以完成吧沒問題可以嗎沒問題啊好 會後麻煩再提供給所有的委員一份好不好好 包含給我翁小林委員翁小林委員然後另外我最後要講一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
784.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
807.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
因為曾經得到過諾貝爾生理醫學獎的日本東京工業大學教授大禹兩點曾經說過要想讓科學有利於社會可能需要一百年這樣的名言本席希望你國科會能夠更重視台灣基礎科學的研究該通過計畫就要通過該病例就要編列不要在那裡東扯西扯好 以上好 我們謝謝翁委員巡打 |