| IVOD_ID |
168233 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168233 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-08T10:31:53+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-08T10:44:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:22 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/70d8fc05dcd8abb073000fdbf988f633a7afadf2dd1952ec212c5ce4660756d3dd317367dc2c47e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:31:53 - 10:44:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長及台灣中油股份有限公司董事長、行政院經貿談判辦公室首長、財政部首長、行政院主計總處首長就「台美關稅協定（ART）中關於『擴大採購及購買』（原油、天然氣、發電設備等）項目之評估、規劃及涉及之問題與工作，並就台灣中油股份有限公司之增資案」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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740.94471875 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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743.56034375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
有請這個楊全文委謝謝主席 楊全文發言 邀請部長跟中榮邀請部長跟中榮 方董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
17.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
36.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
因為中東戰爭石油的供應有大減所以會導致整個在這個全球性的一個控管機制似乎導向不是很順暢的一個情況之下所以因此這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
54.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
IMF也估計說全球性的經濟成長他會放反那高盛也說石油的危機亞洲處境是最危險最危險那也提出說全球是 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
55.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
74.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
市場呢那因為以往說是短暫性的一個干擾他可能會轉換為結構性的供應緊張所以部長跟忠友在這裡我們看到因為受美伊戰爭波及呢那卡達大概有17%的天然氣呢他出口遭到了這個癱瘓 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
79.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
88.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那導致那亞洲的LNG現貨的價格那大概是落在每百萬英勒單位的是大概在20塊美金左右那遠高於美國的Hund Hub它的2.8美元的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
95.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
113.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那所以在4月份的時候 中油天然氣的價格當然我們一定要以民生為主所以我們要求民生的用戶不能調漲那工業用戶的部分大概是漲5%那這個電業用戶的部分大概是漲41點多 58%那排價的部分是以18塊7左右為基準來反映這個高漲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
124.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
149.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個氣源成本那如果以剛剛所說的這樣的一個數字我們看到是史上最大的一個漲幅所以部長你在4月6號的時候也對外經濟部對外說已有某個主要能源生產國他承諾要來支援我國的天然氣的一個需求那請教部長哪一個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
155.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
172.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個視訊就有達成這樣的共識就是什麼什麼我們跟他視訊的時候就有達成共識對哪一個國家視訊啊不對外說明不對外說明對那因為你又有說了一句話你說因為我們人緣很好所以人家願意協助我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
192.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
的確是這樣是因為人緣很好應該講就是說我們中央公司包括我們過去來講跟這些國家他們的商業往來也好或產業關係也好事實上是算有互信關係那你所謂的有國家願意那是一個國家還是幾個國家有一個國家是一個國家表示怎麼樣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
217.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
他是說如果我們有需要在這個天然氣如果真正有需要的時候他願意全力的支持我們供應我們好那請教我們要謝謝那你這個國家不能講那你供氣的條件跟採購的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
220.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
244.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
條件呢他只是表達這樣的意願啦所以有沒有講到條件沒有沒有沒有但是這個意願表達就是至少我們量的部分可以可以優先去取得因為量還是最重要優先去取得所以到目前為止因為價的話事實上市場上他有一個參考價格所以目前為止也就是條件購電的價格都還沒有談 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.92 |
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276.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為大家對這個很期待啊不是它是天然氣啊對啊對啊是很期待啊也就是你這一個採購的成本嘛供氣的條件啊你們談到了這個部分了沒有你找到了這個國家願意嘛你們視訊過了嘛那也就是說供氣的條件跟採購的成本有沒有具體談了有沒有價格的部分就是反映從市場上的價格作為參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
278.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
280.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本席請問有沒有跟這個國家具體談 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
283.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
307.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有沒有沒有談到這個說多少價格所以你還沒有談嘛 跟這個國家還沒有談嘛還沒有談這個項目沒有還沒有談 這個要講清楚那因為那你原則上你的企業的這個採購價格你會依常約的公式去計算還是依照現貨市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
309.791 |
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326.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
根據我剛才提到的如果是這一個國家來講的話還沒有談到那麼細的部分當然定價是有兩種委員講的沒有錯一個是現貨價格另外一個是長約用跟這個時間那以你經濟部長中油董事長在你後面你會以哪個方式去談 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
327.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
354.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為這個牽扯到中油的成本中油的成本也是納稅人的錢啊所以你會哪個方向因為你對外說我們人緣很好所以有一個國家願意要提供給我們很好那到底我們的條件是什麼供給的條件供給的價格是什麼你說你再告訴我們還沒有談那我們自己本身你會以哪一個方向去談 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
356.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
368.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個因為現在還沒有我們還不到買不到的狀況如果我們在現貨市場上買不到的情況之下我們當然會跟他你不要扭到旁邊嘛我們針對嘛因為你幾天前你這麼說啦你會這麼說表示你心裡有一個底嘛那你會以長約的價格去談還是以現貨的價格嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
380.71 |
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398.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
請問沒有 因為我們本來就跟他有簽長約的部分對所以大概大家會猜到哪一個國家嘛所以到底你會繼續長約嗎長約的部分就會用長約的價格來談那額外增加的部分當然參考的價格是欠貨價格好 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
400.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
412.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們就離去一個方向嘛長約的大概哪一個國家大家知道那不能講那但是呢已經有簽了長約長約當然是依照契約走那你認為如果額外的是以現貨來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
416.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
435.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
市以現貨的這個價格作為基礎這個社會大眾才會理解 了解到底未來我們的左向會怎麼樣好 接下來本席請教中東的衝突提升了這個國際的能源價格那麼中油預估3到6月份的時候你的成本會暴增1760億 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
441.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
464.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這部分指的是能源進口的成本所增加的金額對 所以你會增加1760億的成本所以你現在目前負債比是92%是92% 你的淨值大概有854億目前淨值大概是如此那你有一個規劃 經濟部你規劃怎麼做你說有一個四年要規劃3500億的增資 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
468.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
470.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
而且你告訴我們說明年你首先要編列1687億 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
473.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
501.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那你相關的財源仍需依照稅收以及舉債的情況你是用這兩個嗎請說明報告委員剛剛提到的這個1687億這個部分是明年希望增資的部分那現在我們協助中油大概有三個面向一個是專案融資另外一個是用預算來撥補那第三個是增資那這個增資的部分就是剛剛向您報告的這個部分那增資會呈現嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
503.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
522.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
會不會 你三個面向嘛專案公務預算啊那第三個才是增資嘛 增資會不會做會不會做會不會做 請教會 要報行政院 行政院也同意了會做 那會做你的來源依據什麼依據預算啊不是啊 你的預算來源依據什麼 你說依據你的稅收跟舉債的情況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
534.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
559.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你要依據什麼這個增資的部分主要它有幾個部分它是比較算是投資未來因為它很多的部分要投資未來所以你現在還是規劃四年要增資3500億那明年是1687億但是你現在是靠舉債跟不確定性的財源來做增資是不是以這兩個面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
560.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
573.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
目前來講因應現在的狀況 是不是第一個的確是舉債第二個我們當然也希望但是你告訴我們不確定的來源啊 財源啊那你如果沒有達到那中友怎麼辦本席重點要請問這個因為你爭執的來源是不確定性耶那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
581.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
600.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
取債的部分現在行政院幫我們處理嘛另外一個撥補的部分預算撥補的部分行政院也現在幫我們處理嘛部長你說的行政院幫你處理本席要提到的這個重點就是在你財源不到的時候中油的財務如果失控一次性的調漲價格讓全民會承擔會崩潰 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
605.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
613.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
本身是預警性的告訴你因為你告訴我們 中央董事長在後面點頭囉你要注意到這一點喔是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
615.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
634.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
是是是是什麼意思所以我們就盡量要協助他協助中油你怎麼協助他因為你首先說的舉債舉債可以知道舉債怎麼了但是你有一個是不確定性的這個稅收啊來源啊這一段如果沒有中油怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
635.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
640.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以我們盡量把這個預算盡快的提到大院如果大院可以同意的話這個就比較可以安穩部長你沒針對本席的提問啊中油是國家很重要的資產啊是人民的納稅錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
654.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
659.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你一個舉債 你要政治的部分 一個舉債 一個不確定性的稅收來源你應該要保證啊 一定的稅收來源 中油才會安心啊對不對 那你這一點你沒有給他解決他萬一他不確定的稅收達不到的時候 那中油怎麼辦 我請問中油不能倒欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
676.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
685.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
是啊 所有的預算都要送到立法院啊 要立法院同意啊這不是送到立法院 是原則問題耶你的稅收是不確定的來源啊你告訴我們的 部長請再編進去 他就是確定要送到立法院啊你講的是程序 本席告訴你的是原則他的財源要從哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
701.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
728.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
行政院同意我們增長這個裁員要從哪裡來啦部長第一個是舉債嘛第二個是不確定性的稅收嘛我請問你不確定的稅收如果未達到的時候怎麼辦沒有不確定性的稅收啊你在補足資不是因為我們政府補足資對不對不是因為我們會編入明年的預算本身要告訴你的也就是說因為戰爭的問題那中油不能倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
729.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
732.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
一定要好好的協助我們的民生中小企業產業這非常的重要大家要好好的來協助嘛這才是讓我們的人民可以過生活嘛 |