| IVOD_ID |
16821 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16821 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-17 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-17T08:50:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-17T11:46:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:55:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528eb29573f7f40ddb36831a2cf93fac92ad80a0af5ed963d0f5b75b2799b3b0c86a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-17T09:20:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第6次公聽會（事由：召開「臺美政府對等關稅協商我國政府因應對策」公聽會） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:50:01 - 11:46:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
98.295 |
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99.065 |
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野生野生 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1804.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1810.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
向委會報告本席正式宣布我們的公聽會開始那麼首先啦歡迎今天麗玲的學者專家在場的委員鄭偉晉的代表來參加台美政府對等關稅協商我國政府因應對策的公聽會那麼其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1831.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1836.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我在開始之前我想講幾句第一個當初定這個題目鄭麗君副院長已經回來了我們都認為說應該有答案結果沒有答案那外界就揣測兩個原因第一個談得不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1852.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1863.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
因為以我們政府的習性如果談得好一定敲鑼打鼓所謂談得不好那是遠高於10% 遠高於15%再加上如果把匯率漲了13%加進來那個中小企業會倒一片第一個 可能談得不好第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1877.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1901.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就是大家很關心的國內的產業你們是不是面臨到美國的壓力要我們零關稅我講清楚喔你們如果同意美國零關稅要海關進口稅者條例還是要經過立法院我相信我們立委會很多意見比如說農產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1903.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1905.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
雞腿磅17.5%吧對不對 你猜一下雞腿磅 農民啊17.5%我們是要怎麼花啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1915.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1934.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
農民是要如何?汽車工業你說保護太絕了要減但你不是這種計劃你逐年降低大家可以接受你148歸0那跟汽車產業它的衛星工廠加起來超過100萬人的就業怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1935.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1953.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
不能說是為了要討好美國把台灣的整個經濟都勾垮把台灣的就業人口就業情況都勾垮這是外界所慣性的兩大問題也就是說我們的談判怎麼會變政治化的這麼的嚴重這個越南從原來46變28但是他付出代價零關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1962.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1983.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
零關稅還有加很多其他的可是我們旁邊的我們加我們就加了我們這個也開始台積電區了而且還蓋了這個從北極圈到阿拉斯加的這個油管我們要花140億美金左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1984.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1990.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
也簽了我們經濟部長說未來十年增加兩千億美金從美國進口這個天然氣平均一年兩百億美金這個條件都比川普現在跟其他國家談得更好怎麼還沒有答案所以今天藉這個機會希望聽聽專家學者的意見我們未來再折起來審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2011.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2016.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好 我先介紹到場的立委我們的黃國昌委員也是民眾黨的主席第二位 我們按照先後到的順序我們來介紹丹江大學經濟學系的蔡明峰教授第二位是桃園市總統會的劉富理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2046.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2072.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
中華民國全國總工會的秘書長 溫副秘書長溫秘書長 對不起台灣汽車輛工業統一工會的副秘書長 吳志奎副秘書長以及國立中正大學勞工關係學系的王教授好中華經濟研究院的劉所長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2078.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2085.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好 那政府的機關代表介紹一下行政院的秘書長 副秘書長李國新 李副秘書長國會秘書處的陳副處長行政院經貿談判董事的副總代表這個議員副總代表以及國會的高先貴副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2107.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2131.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
經濟發展處的陳美菊處長以及經濟部的江次長 江文若 江次長以及國貿署的劉署長產發署的周副署長中小企業署的李祖密農業部我們的胡宗一周次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2134.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2161.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
以及國際事務司的文副司長中文規劃司的韓副司長訓務司的李司長漁業署的林副署長農經署的李祖密農糧署的蘇祖長以及動植物防疫建議署的陳祖密衛福部食藥署的林副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2163.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2191.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
健保署的庞副署长机关署的陈副署长社会及家庭事的魏科长长期照顾事的徐科长财政部的钟部长以及公务署的彭署长国务署的陈署长辉瑞署的宋署长中国输出流民囊的戴理事主席劳动部的黄社长 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2196.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2218.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好 我們現在就開始今天的公聽會啊原則上就是讓專家學者先講我們的立委隨時要發言來登記我們基本上就會中間串查那每位專家學者八分鐘結束前一分鐘會按理提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2220.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2242.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
原則上依專家學者的簽到順序發言委員若需要發言到主席才登記每位五分鐘這都是我們的慣例全部發言完畢以後再請行政機關就全者的月管全者整體的回應現在請第一位學職專家蔡明峰的補師意見請 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2253.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2253.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2261.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2281.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
主席還有各位與會的先進大家好今天非常榮幸可以來參加台美政府對於對等關稅跟我國因應做法的一個公聽會我想我們這一次在因應對等關稅的時候這個談判其實跟過去的貿易談判完全不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2282.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2300.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為無論是高關稅或是低關稅,一定都會有產業受到影響所以在這個情況之下,面對的情況變成是兩害相權取其輕一定都會有衝擊,那這個衝擊看哪一個是政府可以做的比較可以吸收的,那當然你可能會選擇那個衝擊相對比較小的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2302.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2316.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們可以來看一下就是說其實我想在今天的提綱裡面有提到如果當面對關稅的時候我國政府可以有哪些談判的這些做法第一個我想大家都會提到的就是所謂分散出口市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2317.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2334.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
但是我也覺得就是在分散出口市場的時候大家要特別小心這個分散市場已經跟過去的你隨便賣到一個市場不一樣今天賣到的市場是一個高所得的市場所以你可以分散的市場大概就是日本歐盟這些的市場日本歐盟也都還是需要美國的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2334.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2357.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以在這一次的對等關稅裡面這也是為什麼會讓大家非常傷腦筋的原因但是其實如果是就低所得的國家來講我想大家就不用花太大力氣去協助廠商分散市場因為對廠商來講他為什麼會賣到高所得市場他不是沒有能力賣到低所得是因為他要賺取一個比較高比較合理的利潤所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2357.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2374.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在這樣一個情況之下其實如果真的在協助業者轉到低所得國家市場其實坦白講就是一個二次傷害所以在這個case之下我們可以來看另外一個就除了這個市場面以外我們要注意另外一個就是供應鏈的互補性 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2376.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2402.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我想提高供應鏈的這個互補性是非常重要的事情提高供應鏈的互補性其實也是在提高你不可取代性所以你在提高這個不可取代性的時候你這個時候就可以對於有一些有競爭力的廠商呢讓他更有這個出口競爭力讓他在面對外國如果要加徵關稅的時候外國政府也會擔心所以在研發面的話我想就這個部分應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2403.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2417.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
來好好的來這個進行第三個部分就是國內市場的開放程度我想這個是大家最關心的那國內市場開放程度其實剛剛主席有特別點到了這個不同的開放程度到底要怎麼開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2418.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2432.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那其實比如說如果今天在國內已經有非常多外國品牌的這個市場如果政府還給予比較高的保護那這個時候如果一旦開放外國廠商進來他不見得是對於本國市場的廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2433.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2463.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
是有直接的競爭反而是對外國品牌的競爭會比較激烈所以就這個部分來講我想當然這個需要更進一步的評估但是我們不應該就是說只有一時去保護某一個特定的產業或某一些產業那這些產業他明明就有一些風險承擔能力結果你還繼續保護他如果這個有一些產業他是本身沒有風險承擔能力的當然你去保護他這是理所當然可是有一些產業如果你保護他很久 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2463.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2479.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在國內也有很多外國品牌廠商進來了繼續的保護是不是幫助他其實大家好好思考當然大家也會關心到就是說那這些受害的勞工怎麼辦其實如果你讓這個勞工他一直留在一個沒有競爭力的產業久而久之他也會變成一個沒有競爭力的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2481.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2508.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個其實害了勞工不是在保護勞工所以我覺得當我們面對這個衝擊的時候除了勞動部都已經有提出來的一些直接的補貼或協助以外我覺得在面對台灣普遍產業界認為有缺工的情況之下盡量去協助這些員工從業人員去轉業我想應該是讓我們的勞工提高整個勞動市場韌性比較好的這個方式所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2509.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2533.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
在因應這個對等關稅生效之前如果就在談判上面我想如果在談判上面對方也開出他的一個需求那第一個我想買了很多我們的東西那如果我們也有需要買的國內也沒有生產的其實我們也可以擴大採購所以第一個我想對美採購這個部分在雙方互有需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2534.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2549.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
在基於安全原則的情況之下我想這個是有必要去進行的那第二個就是海外的投資你有這個能力的廠商台灣在資源有限的情況之下如果這個廠商他也沒有辦法再繼續待在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2550.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2576.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
如果是他在台灣的資源就真的有限了那其實他出去的話對於整個台灣的經濟安全他不是傷害他應該是幫助第三個就經濟安全的問題而言我想這個部分其實也是在這一次關稅談判裡面世界各國都會面臨到比較重要的地方就是比如說在洗產地違規轉運這些問題或投資審查機制出口管制的做法這些都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2577.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2606.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
美國他在意的那美國在意的坦白講他也是如果對台灣有利的那台灣也應該好好去做那這樣子你才可以維持一個廠商可以永續經營的一個環境所以最後我們的中長期的這個調整策略應該要怎麼樣去進行我想就這個部分來講就如同我剛剛舉出來的幾個第一個就是要拓展出口市場這是很重要那因為假設歐盟的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2607.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2635.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
獲利沒那麼高美國市場獲利比較高但是你面對高的關稅廠商自然就必須要往歐盟往日本去做但是歐盟跟日本有沒有這樣的產品可以來讓我們的廠商轉過去這是另外一個問題因為你的產品很不錯但是如果這個國家的廠商沒有需求那也沒有用所以這其實是一個蠻高難度的挑戰因為他是一個高所得市場來對大家課關稅那第二個就是供應鏈的互補性就是有一些具有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2637.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2652.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
比如說AI產業大家都覺得說它是具有比較長的這個願景那許多台灣的廠商美國的廠商歐盟的廠商也都一直在合作那如何再去提高這個供應鏈互補性我覺得這個是政府可以盡量去協助的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2652.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2681.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
降低這個對沒有競爭力廠商的保護讓這些勞工可以到有競爭力的廠商去我們都知道人力資本非常重要如果你可以到有競爭力的廠商去你的人力資本的累積應該是會更有競爭力這對台灣來講才是一個讓產業可以永續經營之道所以第三個當然就是協助這些勞工盡量可以轉業而不再只是一般的補貼而已第四個就是維持供應鏈的完整性因為你可以從這一次在整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2683.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2709.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們在面對這種產業的壓力跟關稅的壓力之下如果你可以去維持我們國內供應業的自主性這個其實就是台灣的籌碼那盡量再去凸顯我們跟低生產成本國家的差異我想這個是讓台灣可以維持比較高競爭力的一個做法最後一個就是大家都很喜歡出口去玩那這個議題大家也講很久了那為我們的國人有這樣的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2710.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2737.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
如何扶植一些盡量去避免面對關稅的這些產業我想也是非常重要那我想服務業比較高品質的服務業絕對是過去幾年政府也投很多那政府也應該好好去思考看看如何讓國人留在國內旅遊我想這個部分其實也是讓我們的國家經濟可以永續成長很重要的一個方式以上 謝謝好 謝謝蔡民芳蔡教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2743.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2756.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
補充介紹我們現場張祺凱張委員好謝謝接著歡迎的是請賴世保賴昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2767.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2783.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
謝謝主席 以及各位先進我補充一下 剛才我在起頭的時候啊舒适來講 講偏了我說那個雞腿棒啊關稅17.5啊我講少了 真的關稅是20%啊20%啊 各位如果雞腿棒變零關稅各位你可以想像農民的傷害有多大嗎第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2795.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2800.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我們整體美國進來台灣的關稅172億66億貨物稅 貨物稅就是所謂的這個非關稅的障礙 非貿易障礙營業稅我們收到的是391億 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2817.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2839.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這裡面我很關心的我相信很多立委都很關心的就是台灣是不是已經被要求了領婚稅等一下我們請副總代表一定要告訴我們雖然說你們不揭露答案但是今天公聽會你可以讓大家知道是不是被要求領婚稅我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2842.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2853.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們極可能被要求零關稅當然其他專制學者有講說更在意其他的產品不是這個可是現在零關稅面臨到最大的兩個產業一個就是農業一個就是汽車產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2857.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2873.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
汽車產業當然有委員提出已經保護這麼久了應該降為零關稅可是能夠一下子馬上降嗎等一下經濟部的長官又否釋意見了一下子降為零台灣的汽車業還有汽車能夠活那就關門算了幾個關門了而且第三大題我要強調的我們是民主國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2884.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2890.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所有政府去跟他談的結果第二包括合約包括關稅你要降稅要經過立法院同意喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2897.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2921.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
最後簽字 最後同意的是立法院剛才我跟 請教我們的總部長我們總部長很認真地做了我問他一個問題 說如果我們不同意咧他看起來好像一路就不宣布不同意的樣子而已我向各位長官報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2923.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2951.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
最後要說怎麼過是立法院是立法院所以我們立法院可以做後盾今天我今天講這一話都正式的紀錄留下來我們就是我可以講我們不能接受美國要求我們的零關稅絕不接受絕不接受我們已經付出夠多了他現在跟越南的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2953.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2976.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
專買增加天然氣天然氣我們要從原來的這個10%要變成30%從美國花錢免費從北極圈到阿拉斯卡的那個管線我們要負擔440億美金的三分之一那就是將近150億美金那就是4000多億台幣我們負擔的這筆錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2982.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3001.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我們負負擔台積電一千億川普總統說兩千又說三千到底是什麼事我們付出不夠多嗎他們說喔越南又買了幾十架波音台灣沒有買波音嗎連七八七都買了台灣都先付啦還沒談就先付啦這種情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3007.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3021.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我們的流水在談判的過程當中一開始你底牌揭露我們等於是跪著跟他談了能探出一個什麼好的地方外界高度質疑否則為什麼你們不宣布呢不講進度呢 全部黑箱 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3025.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3051.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
你可以看看日本的首相石破茂怎麼講 說七十零關稅 絕不接受美日關係多好啊在日本還有美國的駐軍多麼的依賴美國在保護他他都敢這樣說所以我們的官員從頭到尾沒有一個人在坑 敢跟美國說NO全部都說YES人家都沒開口 先給 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3052.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3068.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我們談判是這樣談的所以等一下真的請政府的官員代表要跟我們講一下到底為什麼川普政府馬上要公佈世界一百多個國家馬上要公佈一口氣公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3070.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3087.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那時候就醜媳婦見公婆了那時候台灣怎麼樣就很清楚了沒有閃躲的空間但是現在外界另外一個質疑我剛才忘了講了現在想到很重要的質疑就是什麼其實早就談了 知道了 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3090.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3106.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
只是因為大罷免啊 因為談得不好 對大罷免不利所以把它拖啊 拖在7.26之後 甚至要拖到8.20之後因為8.23有第二體制的所有的罷免 8.23有另外一個體制所以 我要強調的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3116.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3141.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這個是關係到我們的產業發展關係到我們的就業人口關係到台灣人的生存的問題我覺得真的拜託政府官員不要政治化不要政治化我再講一遍我代表個人我是台灣的立委監察委我代表個人零關稅絕對不能接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3144.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3154.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
如果你們談出來的結果不管怎麼抬到什麼20%啦 怎麼樣啦說台灣竟然是零關稅那就是上群入國謝謝好 謝謝賴市長來召委接著請黃國昌黃委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3176.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3200.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
謝謝主席首先感謝今天所有到場與會的學者專家產業界以及勞工界的代表你們所提出來的寶貴意見將會成為本院接下來在面對有關於台美關稅談判以及相關配套措施的時候非常重要的參考依據今天其實站在這邊參加這場公聽會感觸非常的深因為我第一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3202.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3229.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
站在同樣的這個講台參加有關於我國有關於對外經貿談判立法院到底應該要怎麼處理是2013年12月19號當時我是以中央研究院研究員的身份站在這個地方我們那時候大聲疾呼馬英九政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3230.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3246.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
對外有關於服貿的談判黑箱作業立法院該進行的程序不曉得在搞什麼東西那個時候跟非常多的學者專家我們在這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3247.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3274.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
財政委員會所召開的公聽會 宛如狗吠火車因為那個時候的立法院 形同快要癱瘓了完全沒有辦法發揮任何監督制衡的功能所幸 微小的聲音得到了廣大的回應當時 民進黨的主席蔡英文終於站出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3275.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3304.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
蔡英文說什麼國家對外貿易談判從開啟談判 談判過程到談判結果協議的審議都要有國會的參與才可以體現行政立法在對外談判上的權力分享與責任分擔的法則說得非常的好現在的民進黨政府有做到嗎當時不僅民進黨主席蔡英文跳出來了賴清德也跳出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3305.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3331.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
他怎麼說一個對台灣政治經濟層面影響深遠的協議在事前以黑箱作業的方式沒有審慎評估各行各業所受的衝擊就已送入國會這是獨裁心態立法院舉辦公聽會要把公聽會的意見納入修正馬英九總統要求國會無條件接受一個字都不准改 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3333.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3351.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
這是什麼這是以個人的意志凌駕民主制度更是獨裁的心態 展露無遺說得太好了接下來民進黨出去外面的談判團隊會不會用相同的口氣要求國會一個字都不准改 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3352.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3365.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
你如果敢改就是破壞台美關係你如果敢改就是中共同路人我們等著看我們等著看事前事終根本什麼把當初的承諾當耳邊風把公民社會的參與把國會的參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3375.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3385.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
當什麼 當塑膠昨天外交國防委員會辦了巡打 辦巡打又怎麼樣上來 關槍關掉講了什麼東西啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3388.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3412.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
當初 鄭麗君 我們現在的行政院副院長談判的總代表怎麼講的不是只有簽署後的監督啊簽署前的談判過程就要讓社會參與 社會協商利益關係人必須被充分告知資訊今天有一些利益關係人 我相信已經坐在這邊我非常想知道 你們有沒有被告知資訊你們有沒有覺得有參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3416.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3438.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
受到衝擊的產業有被告知資訊嗎?有參與嗎?接下來可能會面臨重大負面影響的勞工有參與嗎?有被告知資訊嗎?還是大家串在地上等老實說啦正式最後的結果出來以前此時此刻的台灣早就受到傷害了過去兩三個月我們從北部到南部 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3445.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3466.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
密集拜訪了非常多的廠商跟勞工大家怕得要死但沒有人敢出來講為什麼沒有人敢出來講現在的政府肅殺氣氛很重啊怕被查水表啊誰敢出來講啊我現在出來講那接下來立法院通過好不容易要去補助產業補助勞工的會不會因此拿不到會不會被關切 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3472.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3494.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
什麼時候台灣的一個民主社會面對這麼重大的經貿議題啊靜若寒蟬我最後啊只想要補充一件事情或許有人說當年是在跟中國談判啊中國是我們的敵國跟美國談判美國是我們最好的朋友態度應該不一樣我提醒一下民進黨當初我們要改的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3501.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3530.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
除了兩岸協議監督條例以外還有條約締結法這個是民進黨當初提出的條約締結法修正草案他們提的修正草案他們的條約締結法說要建立標準化與透明化的條約締結程序要明定國會在締約前後的參與以及監督具體的條文我不唸了在立法院公報都有現在資訊非常發達大家都google的到 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3532.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3545.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
剛剛有在討論說如果涉及法律的修正那國會要怎麼處理這件事情很簡單我為什麼會說這件事情很簡單十一年前就討論過了締結計畫的提出與成行第一個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3549.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3574.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
依照締結計畫進行協商第二個階段完成協商後正式簽署前第三個階段國會審查第四個階段簽署後的監督第五個階段這是當初多少學者專家大家共同智慧的接近在一個當代的民主國家當中牽涉到這麼重大的經貿談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3576.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3601.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
在國內的民主程序應該要如何進行產業勞工要如何參與國會要如何監督法律修正要如何配合只不過很遺憾當初參與提出這些意見的學者專家現在全部都到民進黨去當官全部都到民進黨去當官當了官的這些人完全忘了當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3602.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3629.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
的主張對台灣民眾黨而言我們願意全力做我們政府的後盾但是請民進黨不要忘了當初的承諾不要把國會當橡膠把台灣的民主當空氣接下來我們會用盡所有的力量跟我們的產業跟我們的勞工跟我們台灣的農漁民站在一起追求台灣最高的國家利益 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3632.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3640.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
好 謝謝黃國昌黃委員接著請中華民國全國總工會秘書長溫中瑜請溫先生發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3653.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3677.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
謝謝主席中華民國群工總工會在這邊發言代表勞工發言中華民國群工總工會雖然是勞工團體但是當企業不好過的時候勞工也不會有好日子所以我們必須關注關稅對於企業之方的影響所以我們和中部的幾個產業進行了一些訪談譬如說水五金、電子還有模具等相關產業就美國關稅問題進行深入的對談討論那我們目前歸納出兩個意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3682.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3706.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
廠商最在意的就是關於匯率的波動對產業的影響是最大的再來就是其實是關稅的影響以匯率來說我們這邊收到的一些意見就是關於如果說匯率的波動如果台幣升破29那對產業的影響當台幣升值的時候除了減少廠商的獲利之外台灣的出口產品也會變貴這就失去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3707.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3717.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
價格上的優勢我舉個實例來講也是我們所了解到的就是關於台中的那個Buffalo工具機它運用計畫性生產方式要來拼新櫃結果因為美國關稅問題再加上訂單的大量減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3724.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3738.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那又遇到台幣的大幅增值因為他們是做高精密而且高價格的高檔機器那遇到日幣貶值又台幣大幅增值工具機的價格和日本製造的其實差不多了所以問大家一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3740.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3753.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
當國產豐田汽車跟賓士差不多價錢的時候你會買哪一種車這也導致公司無法行賄上市而被併供這就是現在匯率影響一下台灣的廠商的途徑那再來是關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3755.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3776.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
台灣企業主要競爭對手是在於中國、韓國、日本和東南亞等國家當我們關稅高於這幾個國家的時候雖然說關稅大部分是由買方這邊來承擔但相對就會降低一定的競爭力所以建議關稅的部分應該是要低於競爭對手那中華民國全國總工會作為全國勞工的代表對於本市台美關稅協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3778.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3784.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
深深感到此事不僅牽動到產業靈脈更加直接影響基層勞工的工作權與生活穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3785.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3809.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
再來看我們這次公聽會的主要三大的題目全總這邊總結一個問題的根源就如剛剛那個黃國昌委員所講的資訊不透明並且沒有充分溝通也並沒有讓多方來參與所以針對這三個議題全總在這邊提出以下的建議第一個關於台美關稅談判的民主監督跟法律程序問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3811.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3824.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
經貿協商過程必須透明而且必須取得社會信任依據條例第六條及第八條行政機關應該主動向立法院來報告並且依程序審查所以前總建議啟動國會報告以及社會諮詢程序尤其應該納入商業總會、工業總會還有全國總工會的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3830.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3851.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
第二個建立三階段民主監督機制就是剛剛也有提到的事前報告、事後諮詢以及事後的審議那第三個強化透明談判度以避免以技術細節掩蓋重大政策方向導致民眾失去監督的能力這是關於第一個議題的建議那第二個因應美方關稅衝擊的產業對策與經貿戰略調整我們這邊提供的建議如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3856.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3883.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
台美關稅協商看起來像是貿易條件的重新討論但卻暗藏了整體產業結構跟勞動市場的影響以出口導向出口為導向的半導體資通訊產業到廣大的中小企業過去長期仰賴外交市場今天面對關稅壁壘的調整是首當其衝所以建議政府參考新加坡方式建立經濟韌性特別工作小組協助開拓歐洲中國市場尤其中國是第二大經濟體更不能視而不見 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3884.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3894.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那近三個月可以觀察到企業已經開始面臨壓力匯率升高訂單波動跟關稅問題選擇未解職業變化最直接影響到是轉嫁到第一線勞工身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3895.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3917.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
公司減少工時凍結加班逐步實施減班休息甚至考慮裁員是基層勞工現在正在面對的問題所以全總認為政府若謹以產業補貼付罪減免等策略來應對恐怕難以觸及問題的核心建立制度化並長期可運作的就業與產業轉型三方協作機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3918.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3939.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
日本跟新加坡都已經有建立長色性的三方平台台灣仍然缺乏應對的架構所以我們要打破各自為政的現況建立共共政策共擔責任共享成果的三方平台唯有透過勞資政三方共同參與才能形成真正有溝通有責任有執行力的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3940.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3954.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
所以針對三方平臺建議我們具體建議如下由政府主導結合企業與工會建立三方平臺及時掌握產業變動訂單波動對勞動市場的影響並整合產業轉型計畫勞工執訓與就業媒合等政策工具減少資訊的落差那這三方平臺的成員主要建議韓國勞動部、經濟部、全總產總工總、商總、工商協經會、產業工協會等代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3969.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3988.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那它供應主要是針對危機環境的比方說關稅、疫情、產業衝擊跟AI取代性工作等進行快速反應、自定應對與資源分配的機制那主要的結合是可以由地區型來推動、地區型的小組來推動針對我們一些第一個受到衝擊的產業比如說台中、彰化、中科、遠區這類或產業代表團體進行推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3992.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4010.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那再來就是我們建議制定勞工在培訓計畫因為目前青年待業率仍然高於7%那中高齡求職者平均待業時間超過半年我們必須聚焦在聚焦在中高齡勞工與青年族群提供專業技能培訓課程並結合產業趨勢與實際需求如綠能 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4013.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4030.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
數位製造、跨境整合、AI應用等協助勞工職涯中不中斷並且針對繼續工作的退休人員除了職業再訓練外給予一定額度的免稅鼓勵再就業此外同時會過減免賦稅鼓勵大家加入工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4032.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4061.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
第三個 針對平台的建議的部分推動企業實施無裁員條款來換取政府補貼建立合理遊營讓企業在接受政府協助的同時承諾保障勞工基本就業穩定但是補貼只是短期措施中長期目標能需要協助企業轉型經濟部應該也要建立一個轉型基金之類的簡化申請流程提高補助金額並透過三方協作平台長期且持續的溝通減少政策與實際的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4062.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4084.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那第四個必須將勞動條件影響評估制度化納入未來重大經濟協商與法規調整的程序中讓勞工處境不再是承受政策變動的最後一環尤其是產業轉型過程中企業面對壓力往往第一步就會先從人力成本調整減班休息變成最常營運的方式所以全種呼籲政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4086.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4104.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
補強通報及補助制度設計企業若有實施減班休息的時候應該依法與勞工協商並簽訂書面協議而且必須在實施前主動通報主管目前為通報者並無罰則建議盡速修法賦予主管機關必要處置權限確保通報制度落實真正發揮保護與輔導功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4107.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4128.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
通報後的企業可申請僱用安定措施政府提供工資補貼跟營運支援而勞工亦可以申請充電再出發執訓方案作為執訓強化與轉職準備但目前我們可申請僱用安定措施的產業類別極為有限僅限於橡膠製造業、機械設備製造跟其他運輸工具及零件製造業 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4128.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4144.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
因應在擴大範圍包括資通訊產業、電子零件製造、中小型外銷產業等高風險部門納入真正做到提前預警、事後準備最後針對兼顧安全與農業利益之衝擊及政府因應措施的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4145.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4165.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們支持自由貿易但是自由貿易的前提必須在公平與公平教育與風險補償機制下所以全總期盼政府在進行經貿協商的時候納入多元社會意見確保談判結果兼顧產業發展與公平共同為台灣打造具韌性與永續的未來以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝全總溫中瑜秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4173.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4198.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
接著請劉勝明,桃園市總工會副理事長發言好,主席,以及各位官員跟專家學者,大家早上好 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4199.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4208.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
本人代表桃園市總工會來進行這邊做說明本人是勞工代表這一次的關稅議題那個進口車 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4211.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4231.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
可能對美國進口台灣的進口車可能會造成最終的結果可能會有零關稅的現象這個完全都沒有跟老方來進行溝通或協商那也沒有讓勞工非常清楚的了解評估這樣子的零關稅所帶來的失業的效率那政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4232.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4261.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
不管對外的談判貿易上的談判的一些事項是否也要來跟勞工做說明這一點政府在做的部分是完全都沒有那我們這邊勞工團體非常的對政府非常的失望政府整體都黑箱在作業完全都沒有召開勞資政三方面的會談來去跟勞方來去做友善的一些傳達溝通或者是進而了解勞方所想要了解的一些事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4262.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4289.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那我們也會 汽車產業這邊因為桃園是汽車產業的重鎮現階段台灣六大生產國產車的汽車廠裡面有三家在桃園那普遍都是分布在桃竹苗地區那其實就業人口整體從上游到下游包括零件業的整體就業人口預估的工作人數有30萬人那平均的年齡都是在40歲到50歲之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4292.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4316.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那這一波的零關稅如果未來導致工作權的喪失都是中高齡失業那長期勞動部在扶植中高齡就是非常吃力的一份工作那後續如果我們這些人口都失業的時候政府是否有評估這些失業人口你要如何讓他轉型再就業其實是相當困難的而且此時此刻我們大家坐在這邊吹著冷氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4318.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4337.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
然後來去做這樣子的研討會可是我們勞工兄弟朋友我們尤其汽車這個產業我們的勞工勞動的那個張力是非常的大從上班的第一分鐘開始就衣服沒有乾過汗水就一直流流到下班的那一刻為止那 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4338.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4355.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我們也曾經透過立法委員向政府單位去做一些友善的溝通的時候大而殘之的說我們可以幫你轉行到台積電啊科技園區啊可是我們有這樣子的勞動競爭力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4357.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4374.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個勞動部從來也沒有去設想過以為轉職就業就是這麼輕鬆的一件事情好像他指派你去哪裡工作那個公司都一定會照單全收那事實上是這樣子的嗎我們也是非常的擔憂啦然後再來一個是汽車產業真的有像過去的立法委員講的這麼惡質嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4377.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4391.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
一直說我們是扶不起的阿斗是長期受國家保護的產業真的是這樣子嗎有沒有什麼樣的數據可以去證明去調查咧還有國人買到高額的車輛的新車 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4394.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4419.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
真的是因為這些扶不起的阿斗造成的嗎我們的貨物稅從民國五、六十年代當時因為沒有奢侈稅的稅率的限制用貨物稅來取代奢侈稅然後那時候的車輛率民眾可以購買車輛的能力也有限所以當時就收了25%高額的貨物稅一直到現在這樣子不當的稅率政策也沒有改變啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4420.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4435.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
如果真的大家各個民意代表還是立法委員想要全國的人民買到便宜的車子應該是要從貨物稅去做修法而不是從進口關稅沒有保障勞工的工作權益的情況下去擅自去做更改 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4436.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4455.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這是我們桃園的勞工想要來去闡述的一件事情以及我們汽車產業也配合著政府的政策持續的在提高我們自己的自治率那我們現在也知道包括美國所生產的汽車當中也很多的零組件都是中國大陸外銷過去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4456.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4481.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
全世界的工廠都是單一我們的應該是說每一個零件它都是全球標全球哪一個國家生產出來的零件便宜那我們就從那個國家去做購買所以才會有這一次的這個貿易的一些協定的簽出來的方式那我們還是政府在配合需要我們輔導我們自治率要提升的同時都沒有想過這個產業的艱辛 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4483.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4511.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
而且我們是創造極大化的勞工就業的人口那這邊還是在此呼籲啦希望說未來的配套要有效有措施的而且要跟勞方來進行溝通希望說未來國家的政策能夠保護我們這些相關勞工的一些權益那最後還有就是希望說能開啟協商的窗口啦那跟勞方做有效的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4513.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4518.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我報告比較簡短 以上 謝謝好 謝謝劉聖民副理事長接著請張祺凱 張委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4552.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4560.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
賴清德在2014年批評國民黨政府說事前黑箱作業為評估衝擊是獨裁心態 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4564.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4591.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
現在民進黨政府對於這次美國高關稅這個談判這麼重要的事情到目前是不溝通不說明不讓立法院也不讓產業不讓公民社會一起來參與這是何其嚴重的問題很謝謝今天有這一場重要的公聽會我們今天有這麼多的專家學者包括杜振華杜教授吳志奎吳副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4592.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4616.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
劉聖明、劉副理事長、溫忠義秘書長、王安祥、王教授、蔡明芳教授還有劉孟俊、劉所長跟嘉欣,我們最強的菜農農民代表我們期待今天有這麼多官員來好好傾聽把重點記下來特別是趕快溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4617.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4642.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
趕快說明趕快溝通 趕快說明因為時間已經到了談判那麼多次 你馬上就要公佈了結果到目前都是黑箱作業全世界現有哪一個民主國家跟美國這次的談判裡面像台灣是這樣黑箱的而且馬上就要定案了希望今天這個公聽會是一個好的一個開始請聽專家學者跟代表的聲音之後請 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4644.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4668.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
民進黨政府趕快把門打開趕快溝通趕快說明另外我要特別強調請政府要特別注意你跟美國答應的事情如果衝擊到哪些重要產業甚至可能會被犧牲的這幾天一定要先溝通你不要隨隨便便去答應不要答應了之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4671.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4686.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
國內我相信很多人是沒辦法接受的剛剛已經有好多位立委已經提到了如果你真的去談了一個美國對美零關稅回來我請提醒之前賴清德賴總統講說我們可以從零關稅開始談的時候養豬協會養雞協會一些農民都跳起來了你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4695.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4704.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
稻米方面美國的價格比我們低那麼多它又是大面積的這個耕種這個一進來這對我們稻米這是媚容計畫養豬協會理事長他們都已經出來講了各個產業都已經講了請讓我們參與更重要的不要犧牲我們到目前為止很多人看到的講說我們不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4727.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4754.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
高於25%25%會是一個很重要的臨界點因為我們的主要競爭對手南韓日本都是25%可是我更要提醒了不只不要跟比競爭對手高的同時我們到底拿了什麼去換現在比25%低的有兩個國家一個是越南一個是印尼這跟台灣都有相當的關係越南去換了什麼越南雖然降到20 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4756.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4777.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
可是在美國所有的產品進越南零零我相信如果美國所有產品進來包括農業包括汽車產業這一些如果是零我相信台灣民眾不會接受立法院也不會通過趕快說明趕快跟我們溝通我們不會像越南這樣子第二個印尼 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4778.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4805.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
印尼雖然是20% 它採購了150億的美國能源45億的農產品 還跟波音那邊訂購了50架飛機這裡面我特別要強調的剛講農產品第二個 天然氣經濟部部長我在問他的時候他說我們目前跟美國買的天然氣佔我們所有100%裡面的10%他說會增加2到3倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4807.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4831.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們現在又跟阿拉斯加的天然氣公司又簽了意向書連賴清德總統都講我們要擴大對美這個採購顯然天然氣這一塊不只是量會增加連這個投資都會進去我們明確的要求價格不能太高第二個你如果要投資像路透社講的還要投資它基礎建設包括一起去開採還有管線這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4834.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4859.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
他總金額超過一兆兩千億 台灣到底要負責多少這個都要盡快跟國人要講清楚連國外的路透社 國外媒體都報導了 台灣人不知道這可不可以消耗嘛 這樣怎麼對得起我們台灣民眾呢這天要傳出來 主權基金有沒有被要求 到底要做哪些的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4862.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4885.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
請盡快跟全民講清楚好 今天最主要是請聽寫者專家的這個聲音我要誠懇 誠懇也是做一個非常嚴正的要求馬上就要拍板定案了請所有官員只要是知道你的產業北你主管的機關裡面有受到影響的請盡快說明 盡快溝通不要再黑箱下去 謝謝好 謝謝張祺凱 張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4892.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4896.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
接著請車輛工業同業工會副秘書長吳志葵 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4910.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4937.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
主席各位委員我們各位政府部門長官還有我們這個各位賢警大家好我是車輛工業同業工會副秘書長吳志奎今天很榮幸能接受邀請來跟各位報告我們相關汽車產業的一些現況還有在這波美國關稅這個衝擊的影響跟大家來分享我想會 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4940.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4963.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
專門請這個來談這個汽車產業因為在當前我們國內的經濟環境以出口為導向的ICT產品已經占我們整個出口已經占了65%那相關的壓縮到我們傳承產業的一個發展那待會我也會跟各位報告那今天準備的資料我還是首先要向各位來報告我們汽車產業一些概況我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4965.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4991.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
近年來大家都對我們汽車產業汽車國內汽車工業發展都提出了很多的指教但是我相信在這麼多年來的一個發展的一個基礎對社會對政府對這個人民的貢獻政府部門應該心中自有一把尺那這個這個到 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5003.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5020.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
會動嗎我想汽車是全球國家都非常在意的一個產業我們國家的地位我們在全球排名是我們的土地大小140我們人口占了第57位可是我們的汽車市場45、6萬到47萬占了全球 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5024.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5044.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
第26、27位而且我們的NCAP是第13個國家有這樣的NCAP對消費者的保護的要求所以是一個已經非常成熟競爭的市場在市場上我們有52款超過50款的品牌在國內販售 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5046.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5075.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
有200款以上的車型在販賣這已經是非常自由競爭的一個社會一個市場那大家都質疑為什麼國產車賣得比較貴這其中必然有它其背後的原因大家應該要去探究而不是去質疑說我們為什麼因為公會的功能就是希望政府能營造一個對製造業友善的環境但是到目前來看還是有些不足的地方我待會會提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5078.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5083.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
所以我們的汽車市場一直在維持穩定的一個46萬去年我們的關稅收入是450億 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5090.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5105.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
貨物稅超過八百億加起來要一千三四百億這是非常對我們經濟社會是一個非常穩定的一個力量尤其我們的過去幾年的市場數量的穩定造就了這個就業的機會還有我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5108.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5137.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
每年稅收從我們汽車業也是相當穩定的一個支撐的力量所以即使在其他國家當一個經濟情況在一個萎縮情況始終都是把汽車當作一個標的因為它產值大因為它單價高所以這個過去幾年都有相當不錯的成績事實上我們也在做外銷最高峰的時候在2014年 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5139.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5166.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
即將突破十萬因為外銷的狀況在海外的競爭有所不同所以這幾年但是還都能維持到四萬輛的一個外銷的情況汽車最大的特性上中下游的供應鏈是需要非常完整而且是非常講究一個品質所以在QCD方面我敢說在所有產業裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5168.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5196.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們汽車產業是絕對是大家一個學習的標竿我們問中鋼就好了中鋼以前從來沒有辦法進入汽車市場是因為在2020年左右開始我們汽車廠使用中鋼的高強度鋼板之後中鋼才有建立跟汽車提供汽車原材料的機會還有外銷的機會如果一旦國內沒有這個廠的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5198.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5223.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
不要講中鋼了我們相關的供應鏈一定都發生困難我們之前幾個月前我們還聽到有委員辦公室說我們汽車產業只有一家就是某一家的集團我聽了是非常訝異所以今天還是非常要跟各位報告汽車產業是一個非常這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5225.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5235.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
有具有巨弱的一个产业我们在北部桃园有4家车厂所以他相关的零组件在 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5236.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5263.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
觀音在這個龍潭都有非常的零件的這個廠家在中部尤其是在中部最主要就是台中工業區彰化、鹿港、彰濱工業區在南部永康永康更是我們這個零件外銷的一個大本營這個都需要政府持續的關注跟協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5265.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5285.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那這產生就是大家參考基本上如果能有機會繼續努力尤其現在有關自動性運用到車上面的未來的汽車產業加零件產業絕對有機會突破兆元但是在這個生存的關卡上面看政府是不是給產業一個機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5289.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5307.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
關於這個價值我就不再多提那當然現階段事實上在這些產業一直呼籲希望優先調降貨物稅而不是關稅我們後面會來提 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5309.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5332.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
最主要我還是要提到川普對我們這個影響4月3號其實美國川普第一件宣誓的事情就是對他的汽車業及他的員工說我會保護你們我會支持我們的就業機會我會支持我們汽車產業所以第一個提出來的對汽車的關稅的提高後面才有4月5號的所謂對等關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5335.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5354.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
四月就開始談到現在我們還沒有一個結論但是其他國家相對都已經陸續發布了各位可以參考但是因為我們是對美國我要再強調美國他自己的市場他自己的車廠三大車廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5356.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5384.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
究竟都製造哪些車子事實上95% 97%都是製造pick up為什麼日本跟美國談不了進口的問題很顯然美國自己不做乘用車我今天簡報就顯示美國不做乘用車做乘用車的都是外商包括日本的HondaToyota Nissan |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5386.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5410.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
再來就是現代即使歐洲VWBMWBenz在美國都沒有做乘用車將來如果開放會進來是什麼車大家可以去思考我這要談的再跟大家refresh我們政府實在反應很快讓總統4月6號馬上對應第一個談的就是零關稅可見 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5415.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5437.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我們可以來檢驗對外談判迎合美國看起來百分之百實踐但問題是對內對我們的產業的說明對我們產業的溝通做了多少分有待大家來評論看看政府做了多少事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5440.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5469.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
再來出口為什麼會談汽車因為65%都是ICT產品我們汽車零配件去年72億在我們非ICT產業裡面除了石化之外就是我們汽車其他的都幾乎在衰退之中為什麼我們汽車業可以表現這麼好而且我們一半的市場幾乎就是放在美國美國是我們汽車零件輸往的50% |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5472.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5500.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這個給大家參考其他國家因為季節的不同而有變化排名但是美國一直是第一位所以對我們汽車業來講外販出口原來只有2點多的關稅現在可能要提升到25到30競爭力還在不在就看我們政府談判的結果如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5501.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5528.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那另外提出這個原產地的問題如果我們真的是開放美國零關稅進來那什麼叫做美國製我只是提醒因為政府一直強調原產地不要洗產地將來可能輸進來的可能是TOYOTA的可能是HONDA的那這些品牌算不算美國製 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5532.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5559.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
在國際的準則上面本來就有很明確的規則但是現在都被打破了我們出口事實上對汽車零件最重要的是一個實質轉型我們汽車零件進口零組件加工出口從來不會有什麼洗產地的問題我希望政府這個部分再講清楚我們汽車零件絕對不會洗產地 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5564.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5587.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這是美國他的規則那將來我們是不是要制定美國原產地的規則那是不是要比照大家思考公衛訴求事實上我們在5月12就已經蔡委會有個公聽會已經表達很多意見第一個當然就是大家最關切的關稅我們一直講17.5是不是很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5589.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5615.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
以我們國內市場的量跟其他國家前幾大市場他們的關稅的比較大家可以有一個公論什麼才是我們合理的關稅那我們要降為零是比別人更有辦法能力承受嗎第二我剛才講要一個合理公平一個完善的一個製造環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5617.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5638.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
當別的國家都是進口低關稅的零件組裝自動化輸往台灣你說到價格競爭力有沒有那台灣整車17.5我們很多的關稅都是超過12.5 15 17.5你叫我們汽車整車產業怎麼去降低成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5639.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5664.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
所以不要一直認為說是車廠不願意降低成本很多是制度讓車廠沒辦法降低成本OK公費訴求剛剛有談了我們很多的歷次的談判我都列出來從WTO因為10年的關係所以跟產業都非常有長的調適到後面ECFA |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5665.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5689.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
甚至RCEP到CPTPP我們都很努力說我們有機會我們產業都一起打拚努力怎麼樣來達成任務沒有一項成功反而不需要跟產業溝通就認為說我們已經很成功了這個是我們需要思考OK這個政策貨物稅我就不再提 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5691.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5713.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
另外老舊車輛始終是這個大環境的問題是不是利用了機會可以長可久的淘汰老舊車輛對整體大環境的幫助最終什麼是最壞的狀況出口要科高關稅進口沒阻礙變成零關稅到頭來誰會哭誰會笑勞工笑著出場老闆說 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5720.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5749.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我也很想努力政府不讓我努力誰會笑貿易商笑了昨天新聞台灣賓士馬上跳出來我要零關稅反映的是說你違反WTO你一直給美國你沒給Benz我政府要去思考啊但是反映的事情第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5750.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5778.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
台灣錢真的很好賺台灣真的是一個賺錢的地方所以誰笑著進場貿易商笑著進場消費者會不會笑是說我可能受益成本買車可是消費者還是弱勢在看來都是一個被等著讓人賺錢的一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5779.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5787.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好 以上拉拉遭遭 有機會再給各位好 謝謝石亮工業同業工會的副秘書長吳志奎 謝謝我們可以從談話中看到對三十萬的員工來講影響置身且懼請一些主管機關不得不慎接著請本院劉書斌立法委員 劉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5817.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5831.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
謝謝主席今天首先非常感謝有來自學界還有汽車同業工會還有工會代表跟農民學者有八位的來賓來參加這次的公聽會讓我們來聽到基層的聲音杜振華教授在這裡還有王安祥的教授在這裡我們現在最重要來談論這個議題就是台灣是美國第七大的貿易夥伴 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5846.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5862.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那在過去的這時間到現在為止呢包括我們的競爭對手日本韓國還有歐盟美國都已經說出了對他們的一個談判的關稅是多少但是到現在我們還是沒有得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5863.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5872.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
關稅到底是多少的這個答案那我們就在懷疑是不是在談判之前台積電已經送出去了還包括在談判期間當中傳出來了天然氣還有波音飛機能源的這些部分還有國防武器在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5881.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5883.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
條件都送出去之後呢還有沒有談成的那這樣子是不是有可能會犧牲到我們台灣的人民跟產業的利益呢因此我們民眾黨主張必須以資訊公開立法監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5897.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5903.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
產業保護及積極協商四個原則來尋求行政部門他必須來提升談判的一個透明度來落實國會監督來正視社會多元利益來主動回應產業界跟民眾的一個焦慮這主要是基於過去在2013年的時候福茂強犯協議的這樣的一個警醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5922.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5931.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
如果不是這樣的情況之下呢到時候會發生到台灣內部的共識跟經濟安全的基本條件被維護這樣的問題那談判如果沒有辦法兼顧到公開審議配套跟產業的合作的情況之下呢這就會加劇到社會的這種對立因此政策的脫貧產業補償跟全民參與是非常必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5947.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5952.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那我現在再繼續根據在現在各個部會他們的報告當中的一些問題我提出來我的一個看法第一個在關於經濟部分經濟部分它部分裡面有講到所謂佈局全球要開拓的這個全球的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5965.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5984.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
但是經濟部這邊只重視到東歐、日本、美國、菲律賓等貿易夥伴並沒有考慮到說針對人口最多的印度還包括在土耳其在回教市場的一個開拓尤其是說還要在美國去設立投資的一個貿易中心這是非常令人奇怪的這樣的一個說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5986.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5991.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
但另外我們也關注到是一直在強調對美國的這個避免雙重關稅的協定課稅的這個問題是很重要的有沒有列入到現在跟美國的談判的議題當中呢那如果已經納入了目前的談判的結果是怎麼樣是證明其實是很關切的 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6004.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6006.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
另外一個針對財政部財政部他對於洗產地的防範有提到但是他缺乏了確實揭露洗產地的查緝數據還有查核流程跟MIT |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6020.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6025.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
標章檢證的成效這部分也要說明第二部分我們看到是在鋼鐵汽車反傾銷跟平衡稅的重大項目上面財政部大力報告美方的關切清單但是並沒有看到明確的產業方向的支持跟影響的財政分析報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6039.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6043.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
所以財政部應該把過去兩年產業受到台美貿易的措施的具體的損失跟未來潛在的影響要做一個報告出來第三個針對農業部農業部它直指美國的貿易產品我們進口到美國產品是22.3%那出口是17.6% |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6061.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6081.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那對於對美方們可能要加劇徵收的這個產業農業項目呢是不是應該要公開或分類它的成效評估跟預警的這個報表讓社會知道到底哪些的產業是最脆弱的哪些是最急迫要去處理的這樣子才是有幫助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6082.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6098.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
另外我們看到是民眾都在擔憂這些部分就是說對於現行談判他並沒有能夠及時回應到貿易順差從產品標示汽車關稅的這些美方注意的焦點是重要的敏感的議題長期懸而不決加重了產業的負擔這部分要去進行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6102.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6119.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
最後我們要看到的是民眾黨再次強調的是要重視的是產資訊公開立法的監督要落實還有產業保護跟積極的做協商這樣才能夠確保我們的利益能夠繼續被保持住好 謝謝好 謝謝劉淑冰 劉委員接著請 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6130.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6135.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
國立中正大學勞工關係學校教授王安祥 王教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6154.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6174.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
主席還有現場各位先進大家早安非常榮幸能夠應立法院查委會這邊的邀請來參與今天的公聽會作為一個在中南部教書的勞動學者其實我深刻的感受到尤其在我們很多中南部的傳統產業不論是業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6177.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6196.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
或是從業的人員尤其這些剛剛很多我們勞動工會的朋友跟大家說明的非常憂心的一個部分所以我今天大概就我最近的一些觀察跟我最近看到一些現象就整個勞動的一個概念大概跟大家做一個說明跟一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6199.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6218.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我想從四月份開始就看到美國提出了關稅的一個事情我也在很多場合做很多報告這個報告其實改了非常非常多次我們現在大概都知道川普美國政府大概劍指其實不是在關稅就是出了所謂的貿易的逆差我想現在都沒有問題在四月的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6219.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6237.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
其實台灣被指派的關稅稅率是32%不過後來降到10%之後我們現在都引頸期盼不曉得會有什麼樣的結果那當然剛剛前面很多的先進會的委員都已經提到了我想先進的社會我們在學校教書或是我在外面做倡議我想資訊透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6241.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6268.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這個好幾方的協商其實是一個先進國家必要的一個程序我想過去這幾十年來有非常多的學者或者是從政的朋友們我們參與了這些事情我希望在這一次談判的時候能夠有更多人的參與那當然經貿辦這邊的我想這個談判代表非常辛苦因為過去看到這個21世紀的談判的時候看到很多的談判代表其實都剛好時間是顛倒了非常辛苦不過我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6269.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6288.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們在台灣的這些產官學的這些人都願意做大家這些第一線談判代表的最好的後盾所以還是希望在談判的過程中能夠公開一些必要的資訊事後可以踐行我們國內的一些法治程序這個等下我等會跟大家說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6291.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6313.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
不過這幾天看起來 就算收到通知函 收到信之後也許也不是最後的結論也許也是一個談判的籌碼從昨天的一米就可以看到 它降到19%不過看到19% 也許也有另外的擔憂昨天這個參選會的理事長也有特別提到所以他們擔心另外一個部分 就是匯率的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6314.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6338.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這個我想很多產業也非常非常的憂心那最近幾天這個匯率的事情其實大家都有目共睹當然很多人說這個沒有受到壓力可是看起來這一波匯率的上漲對國內的產業可能會有非常大的影響那當然在我們投影片上這個幾個在蘇美上非常重要的這些項目產品的項目當然就非常重要不過我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6340.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6355.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
看到川普的關稅的這個事情之後其實好像恍如隔世因為我立刻就想起了前幾年的這個台美的21世紀貿易倡議而且我們在初步都已經有了五項基本上已經達成協定了所以基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6356.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6384.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我們過去應該有一些很好的經驗大概可以做一些表率剛剛有一些委員跟代表大家都提到我們希望進行在法律的程序上必須要完備也就是說不管任何的談判結果我們都希望上次21世紀談判初步的協定基本上送到立法院來還有進行實質上的審議的部分我想就第一線的談判代表來 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6386.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6413.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
對 這個所面臨的壓力來說我想後方我們給大家的協助或者是必須要經過立法院的同意我想是在談判上非常好的一個籌碼所以我們也希望能夠視為是一個條約能夠進行這個條約締結法相關的一些程序因為這件事情其實涉及到人民權利義務而且在財政經濟跟國內法上可能有明顯的不一致這也是我今天非常重要的一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6414.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6440.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那就我最近的觀察台灣的這個產業的處境因為我們過去啊這個follow美國的一些建議其實我們有把一些產業往南向部分來做一些移轉那這個可能這次會受到一些影響那這個賴總統在這個第一時間就說了這幾件事情我想現在這個台北代表大概在進行這樣的程序我們也非常這個拭目以待 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6440.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6455.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那上個禮拜我們這個所謂的這個特別條例也剛剛通過這個國民黨的版本那這裡面其實也有這個所謂的支持安定就業的部分因為我今天主要著重在這個就業的部分那勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6455.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6478.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
在他的網站上從第一階段開始就提出了一個這樣的對策大概分為下面這幾項包含訪視的沖洗、安心就業安心就業裡面當然就是我們過去所謂的雇用案例的一些措施或者是無薪假期間充電再出發這一類的東西另外兩項就是再就業跟今年我覺得相對來說可能不是這麼關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6479.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6495.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
不過基本上這些我們在這個傳統的勞動裡面大概都是一些我們現有的一些救出的工具那現在的這個狀況假設關稅的衝擊非常大那以我們現在勞動部手上的這些救出工具的一些手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6496.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6516.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
是不是足以應付可能衝擊非常多的產業而且衝擊的人數非常多的狀況之下也請勞動部要非常的審慎就像當初EGFA的一樣是不是要針對某些特定的產業或特定的勞工基本上要做出一些比較特殊的因應而不再侷限於現在勞動上的這些傳統的救出的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6517.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6541.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
基本上我認為現在的衝擊我們還是必須要在各部會要積極做一些剛剛其實很多前面的委員都有提到過要做一些比較全面性的衝擊評論的報告我想進步的國家我們在學界也常常在協助政府機關在做這些事情包含有哪些產業到底受影響的勞工有哪些人數到底有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6541.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6558.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那這個呢其實這個上次在關稅第一階段的時候這個主任長有到立法院來報告做了一些報告那時候的這個人數大概是覺得製造業大概是有12.5萬那基本上產業的那個產值大概5%來算大概是這個九千多億九千六百多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6559.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6584.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
不過基本上我們在做一些內部的調查跟我訪查一些產業的狀況我們認為這個數值應該是偏低所以我們對於很多的現象上我剛剛說了事後要能夠從容不迫的應付有好的政策其實很好的衝擊評估報告是非常非常重要與其事後措手不及不如做一個很好的衝擊評估的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6586.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6612.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那這個大概很多產業聚落大概都會受到影響那我也建議跟地方政府要建立好的網絡的關係提出一些真的某些特定產業的一些特殊的方法那當然經濟部也提了很多剛才委員也提到可能要做一些到各地做一些貿易的中心或者是貿易投資中心或者是做一些台灣SELECT這樣的東西不過我覺得短期上可能都看不出立即的成效所以還是請 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6613.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6639.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我們的政府部門要非常的小心最後我就用前幾天剛剛公佈的無薪假的數字來給大家做一個參考看我剛剛說的這個是不是危言聳聽還是這真的確有其次這一頁大家可以看到無薪假的狀況最近剛剛公佈的結果就是這個六個月是最高的而且人數還有上漲還有上漲了一些而且因為這次他調查有問大家是不是受到關稅的影響我們可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6640.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6665.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
受到關稅影響裡面有五十幾家啦那會有大概人數會一千四百多位那在這個時候其實大家就已經受到影響我想在產業界大家都看到其實不是怕最後的結果而是怕不確定我們大家現在非常陰險的判斷有一些確定的結果所以呢現在的評估跟現在的狀況從這個五星大的數字上我想提醒這個主管機關我們還是要密切的注意這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6665.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6670.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們所有的國內的產官學界都願意做所有談判代表的最好的後盾謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6690.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6718.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
謝謝主席我想也謝謝今天所參與的所有的專家學者在今天的公聽會之前其實我們是為了台美的相關關稅貿易協定所定的時程但是很遺憾的是我們的特別條例通過了接下來變特別預算了可是我們沒有人知道我們到底談到了什麼今天的公聽會雖然我們還是隔靴搔癢我們在這裡提出各界的意見但是我們的政府從 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6720.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6738.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
開始四月份有相關的貿易關稅問題的到現在其實在國會在立法院甚至在各界應該都沒有完整的資訊中華民國政府現在在跟美國政府的協議的內容進度進程外界沒有任何的資訊行政院說了說 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6740.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6760.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
一切都在進度上這句話有說跟沒有說一樣真正進行談判負責談判的人了解進度的人都非常的安靜彷彿這些談判的項目跟進度是什麼不可說的秘密這一次的台美關稅的協議在台灣民眾黨來看我們已經認為它符合所謂條約締結法裡面有關條約的相關規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6764.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6783.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
必須就談判的方針原則跟可能爭議的事項適時的要向立法院說明並向立法院委員會報告但是除了我們立法院主動要求各個單位來做相關的專案報告之外到目前為止沒有接到任何行政單位主動提供的任何報告資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6784.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6813.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
甚至行政院對外所做的說明也幾乎為零相較於台灣日本政府在日美談判關稅協議的談判上反而他設立了一夜市的網站而且他把所有的資訊對各產業的衝擊全部都放在網站上也就是說日本人民可以很清楚的知道日本現在面臨的狀況就台灣來說我們的中央政府雖然到地方開了很多的說明會 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6814.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6833.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
在本席跟他們要求農業部也好經濟部也好要求他們提供我們各產業他們所稱的相關的衝擊到今天為止給我的回答都是非常籠統說我們都有去都有看但是都不能告訴你今天的問題在於這是一個不可說的密密碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6834.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6854.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們認為說在現在經貿辦的所有的網站上面只看到經貿辦的新聞稿告訴我們都在進城裡我們同意行政院可以可能不要說太多因為必須要去做談判但是現在的狀況不是說多說少的問題而是他什麼都不說 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6855.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6870.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
所以現在看到的消息在美國方面川普是單方面的發文單方面的簽署行政命令並跟美國自己的關稅規定比較像是有具體協議的只是好像是川普第一個簽好的英國跟美國之間的協定 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6871.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6898.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
而這個協定在英國人來看比較像是有在既有的談判架構下面去談的也就是說用同樣的狀況來處理台灣跟美國之間關稅協定我們也有所謂的台美21世紀的貿易協定用這個框架來看的話不管是延續哪一個框架這些都應該按照相關的程序來向立法院做說明但是到目前為止一個影響我國如此重大的關稅協定 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6899.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6917.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
沒有經過國會的審查說到底它也不是行政單位對外代表台灣針對行政事務所簽的行政協定而已而是攸關台灣未來方向經貿發展的重要協定這個協定的內容我們認為在今天為止到8月1號之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6918.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6928.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
至少不能說的可以隱匿起來但是該給民眾包括很多學者說的對勞工的衝擊對產業的衝擊對製造商的衝擊對貿易商的有利這些都應該把它理清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6934.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6958.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
而這個部分在中華民國目前是付之缺乳的所以不要呼籲行政院隨著川普將關稅生效的日期延到到8月1號所以現在還有17天的時間進去進行磋商正在民意代表機關的立場我們希望能夠做到所謂的監督跟成為行政單位的後盾也就是說也要告訴美國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6959.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6974.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我們民意機關跟行政機關它不是由你們說了算而是中華民國政府還是一個主權獨立的國家所以行政院它可以裁量什麼需要保密什麼不能公開但是不能全部都不說所以我們認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6976.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7001.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
福茂協定在台灣是一個黑箱的標的如果以現在的角度來看的話現在的台北協定是比福茂協定更黑箱的狀況我們認為國會跟民眾都有權利了解所有的程序我們也希望行政院能夠適時的揭露相關的資訊讓各個行業跟產業都能知道自己將會面對什麼樣的挑戰以上 謝謝好 謝謝黃珊珊 黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7004.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7029.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
接著請中華經濟研究院所長 劉孟俊 劉所長好 主席 各位長官 各位嘉賓大家好 我是劉孟俊 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7039.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7066.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
今天這一張並不是來跟大家上數學課這一張的話只是告訴我們說我們是接受經濟部的委託來進行分析在怎麼樣的關稅底下的話就台灣出口面臨到美國怎麼樣的關稅的時候我們的在什麼樣的匯率的水準才不會那個出口廠商才不會有虧損 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7068.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7096.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這邊的話我們分析起來大概有幾個條件第一個條件的話就是這個產業裡面的獲利率第二個的話這個產業裡面的話出口占它的營業的比重第三個的話就是它的在國內裡面的採購的成本占它所有的成本的比重那基本來講說我們可以得到一個結論是講說如果說我們面臨到美國的關稅水準越高事實上我們的匯率應該是有所貶值 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7097.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7118.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
但是這邊的話有幾個tricky的地方是在哪裡就是第一個就是想說是如果說我們的產業裡面的獲利率水準越高的時候事實上能夠吸收到關稅的一個衝擊越大那貶值的就不需要那麼大第二個的話就是如果說是我們的產業裡面非常具有特殊的一些競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7121.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7146.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
美國的一個進口商願意是跟我們的產業進行怎麼去去吸收這個關稅水準的時候那我們可以講說我們的匯率的水準就不需要貶值太多這換句話說這個是一個 bargaining power那在這邊這幾個另外一個的話就是以台幣所計算的一些成本裡面就是國內採購的一些成本如果說水準越高那換句話講 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7149.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7171.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
國內裡面的話就變成你要著會有匯損的影響的話就越大如果說經過這幾個計算裡面的話我們可以得出幾個結論怎麼去幫助我們的出口商來吸收到匯率高漲裡面的一些衝擊第一個我們可不可以建議可以思考一下如果是出口廠商的繳稅可不可以用美元來繳稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7173.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7193.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這似乎來講這個應該是比較顛覆一些我們過去的一些思考因為我們是所謂的你出口也好你繳稅的話一定要是用台幣來繳稅但是如果說你允許在某種程度裡面可以讓出口廠商是用美元來繳稅的話或許也可以吸收第二個的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7194.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7223.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們那些廠商裡面有許多是外勞是不是他薪資的話在某種程度上可以允許來講是支付給他美元的一些薪水或許可以幫助我們這個出口廠商來面臨到這種窘境這是我們今天所面臨到一個面臨到美國的關稅的衝擊以及到我們那個面臨到同時台幣升值一些匯率的一些壓力裡面那我們大概計算裡面的話就10%到15%的一個美國關稅的一些壓力的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7224.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7241.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我們或許來講說我們的匯率水準可以保持在30%就1美元對30的時候可能還可以有所面臨到這種衝擊如果說美國的關稅對我們的15%到25%的話大概我們台幣應該要貶值到31%到35% |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7243.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7253.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
如果說美國是對我們的關稅是壓到25%以上的話我們應該是要貶值到35%等等這些是我們這個計算的一些結果這是給大家做一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7256.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7274.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
第二個我們認為關稅水準固然是一個衝擊從長期而言對於我們台灣最大的衝擊應該是講說是叫貿易的不確定性就是我們可以看到川普兩三天改變一些說法兩三天的政策調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7275.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7290.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那這邊的話所以我們可能是研判我們現在所面臨的未來的一個經貿的環境是一個相當不確定的一個環境我們知道很多企業裡面我們有訪問到很多企業裡面不斷的在反映他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7292.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7316.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
關稅水準是一件事情如果說關稅的政策一直不確定的時候對他們的長期的投資的策略營運的策略是很難執行的那如果說我們從這個角度來去延伸下去其實我們的廠商或者是全世界裡面廠商所面臨的一個情況我們可能要是中小企業要面臨到是一個什麼樣將來所面臨的是一個全球經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7318.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7329.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
走弱的一個環境這時候可能對於我們廠商的一個衝擊遠遠高過於對匯率乃至於對關稅這是我們必須要呼籲的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7331.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7350.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那我們再接著下來的話 我們來思考一個情況這時候我們的台商裡面可能會有短期因應關稅的一個衝擊跟長期一些作為那我們知道短期裡面的話 很多廠商採取一個策略叫做Tariff Engineering |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7350.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7374.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
他可能看到一些關稅裡面對產品的定義分類乃至於現在川普裡面對各個國家人採取不同的關稅水準可能就對我們廠商而言的話他可能就要去思考他如何的投資跟市場的佈局可以讓他降低對美國出口的一些壓力那當然說是對我們廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7375.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7385.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
企業對我們政府而言的話可能有必要的是尤其我們中小企業的出口更關鍵的想說是一個現金流的一個穩定性所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7386.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7416.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們可以呼籲一下就是我們行政單位裡面可能是要協助我們廠商做一件事情就是去協助廠商去檢視一下他的現金流穩不穩定他的財務狀況可不可以面對到未來一些衝擊這樣可能是對於無論是廠商的一個競爭力乃至於對於勞工裡面的就業的穩定性這也幫助很大那至於長期佈局而言的話我們台灣現在已經走進去另外一個程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7417.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7429.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
或者是產業發展到另外一個新的一個事業就是我們的廠商或者我們的產業要進行深度的國際化過去來講是我們第一次的國際化可以講說很簡單是到 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7431.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7449.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
海峽的另外一端去中國大陸去進行投資這是我們的第一次的國際化在第一次國際化裡面培養出我們的廠商裡面的話是有規模做大的像鴻海像華碩等等這些或者是很多的ESG的一些代工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7450.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7470.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
但是我們現在是新的一個國際化的話就是除了China plus one可能到先進國家的投資到發展中國家裡面的話所以說我們的供應鏈怎麼去重組讓我們的台商台灣裡面的話進行一個多角化的經營那變成我們的人才的是很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7470.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7495.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以我們的這個國際化裡面的話有短期跟中期跟長期的一些作為這就變成一個重點那我們建議是講說我們應該是採取一個長期的一個視野跟戰略就是幫助我們的廠商幫助我們的產業人進行國際化我們設想一下日本裡面的一個日本商社它是怎麼去全球布局那我們將來台灣可能也面臨到同樣的一些共科 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7496.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7511.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我們不可能只是仰賴台灣自己本身的一些人才我們的土地我們的天然資源其實這個有限但是我們也可能要經營到全球的市場的面要讓我們的廠商有個全球佈局的一些能量那我就簡單報告到這邊謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7522.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7525.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
謝謝主席黃珊珊委員各位在場的委員政府官員專家學者媒體朋友大家應該可以說午安了 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7551.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7578.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我本來以為今天我們所面對的問題大概是我們要進入CPTPP談判的時候才會碰到的結果沒有想到可能提早了好幾年現在就爆發了過去大家沒有準備好該做沒有做的準備今天都造成這個問題的嚴重所以這是蠻感慨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7580.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7604.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那不管怎麼樣既然問題發生了我們就應該要面對它那以我個人的專業來講是以今天討論的第二項怎麼樣來因應是比較相關的剛才有許多猜測就是我們未來會面對哪些產業的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7606.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7616.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
會面對多高的稅率到底要不要降我們對美國的關稅到零等等不管怎麼樣一個相當大的衝擊是沒有辦法避免的目前的關稅率是10%看起來台灣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7629.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7656.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
套不掉要加個5% 10%甚至於半導體的萬稅率把你提得很高把台灣的半導體相關的產業逼到美國去投資這些不確定性的都存在那我不願意去猜測到底到最後會發生什麼狀況那我來提一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7658.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7676.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
這個短期的因應跟中長期的因應應該有什麼樣的考慮在短期方面我們最近有一個930億美元的因應美國關稅我國出口供應鏈支持方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7678.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7693.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
那我認為這個規模是太小沒有辦法應付未來的需要我建議把它擴張到至少兩千億這樣的一個規模那你名稱可以把它擴大因應關稅衝擊產業發展基金那這個東西呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7700.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7725.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
大家可以回想當年我們要加入這個WTO的時候有一個農業發展基金設立了一個規模1000億的農業發展基金那是類似的一個模式但是我認為規模要把它擴大名稱稍微修改一下提供給我們必須要進行升級轉型開拓新市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7726.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7747.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
研究發展員工培訓這些企業所需要的這個貸款或是給他的補貼讓他們有辦法能夠繼續跟流台灣那這是第一項我建議的因應那再來在開拓新市場方面我認為有需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7748.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7776.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
去提出一個專門針對這個東西的方案比方說分散出口市場方案那這裡面會包括提供有需要的企業出口的協助這是可以是個別的企業給他一些協助然後我們要增加現有駐外經貿單位跟外貿協會據點的這個人力配置跟他的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7777.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7792.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
目前已經很多但是看起來以後又不夠了所以有必要增加他們人員的配置跟他說能使用的資源跟這個有關的是我們應該要設置更多駐外經貿的據點 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7794.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7816.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我記得剛才已經有委員提到像土耳其、印度這些新興的市場市場規模越來越大可能我們需要設立更多的據點來收集更多的資訊提供我們廠商更多出口的新聞讓他們去掌握這個出口的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7819.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7844.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
好那另外呢我們可以補貼企業要參加一些國際這個貿易展覽商業展覽這樣的一個支出讓他們有能力呢參加更多的商業性的展覽來增加出口的機會那再來我建議在中長期的經貿策略調整有一些可以做的那基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7846.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7873.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
還是要增加我們對市場的分散度這不只是短期的因應中長期來看它也是一個很重要的策略剛才劉所長他也提到像日本的商社其實不只是日本商社今天40年前我在泰國念書的時候我那個是英文的碩士班 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7874.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7893.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那班上就有同學是日本商社派來念碩士班的你可以看看日本商社為了收集泰國當地的商情他下了多大的功夫他竟然會送人到這邊去念一個碩士班然後畢業之後就在當地住下來繼續幫他收集商情 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7894.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7923.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
那在台灣我猜測大概是沒有這樣的公司存在到現在我剛講是40年前所以如果企業要做到可長可久可大的話那收集商情是非常非常重要的一件事情但是很顯然我們台灣跟日本比起來有非常大的一個差距所以這個更加的分散市場不只是短期它也是中長期的一個策略那中長期另外就是要提高我們產品的獨佔性 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7925.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7939.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那獨佔性如果越強的話就表示進口國更沒有辦法脫離對你這個產品的依賴度那如果這樣關稅提高的話你提高價格這個價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7942.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7970.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
這個關稅的負擔就會比較多的是由進口面進口方來承擔那我們這個出口方必須要承擔的就比較少甚至於你可以完全轉嫁給對方你完全不需要承擔這個關稅那這個溢價的過程當中就牽涉到你的這個產品的獨佔性看來時間過得很快我就比較快的來把我的想法介紹出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7972.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7987.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
再來分散供應鏈到低關稅的國家這也很重要剛剛已經提到印尼最近關稅就降到19%越南是20%菲律賓也是20%這三個國家看起來都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7995.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8018.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
這一波在東南亞關稅率被降得比較低的國家這些國家我們應該要略為重點輔導廠商如果在台灣沒有辦法升級轉型的話輔導他們到那邊去投資轉移降低他們的關稅負擔另外生產的成本也可以繼續下降特別是越南跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8019.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8027.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
菲律賓他們跟北京的政治關係是比較差的我們應該配合跟他們簽訂自由貿易協定來 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8030.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8058.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
來把這個生產鏈能夠完整有效充分的建立起來讓廠商能夠面對這樣的一個衝擊那我的資料呢這個前天就已經給主辦單位了大家手上如果有資料的話都有所以其他的東西就請大家自己去看一下那我再提一下就是農業農業可能這一波是很大的一個衝擊所以可能要仿效進入WTO的時候我們有這個農業發展方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8059.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8076.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
如果這個方案還有錢的話那現在應該要把它擴大可能要一兩千億讓農民能夠放心提供他們各種各樣的輔導我特別要提出來我們的農業試驗單位這些年來它的角色逐漸的弱化 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8077.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8094.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
他不管是人員的配置或是使用的經費呢都已經沒有辦法跟上實在的需要所以如果沒有辦法強化這些農業試驗單位的能量跟研發的能力的話呢那農業呢以後會越來越困難那以上呢那最後我再提一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8095.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8108.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我們應該把產業轉型到服務業越來越重要能夠避免掉這種關稅的衝擊因為服務業是比較不必負擔關稅的但是我們服務業的貿易正式的統計到現在沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8109.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8133.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那中央銀行經濟部跟這個主計總署呢互推皮球幾十年到現在沒有解決我希望行政院能夠趕快折成某一個單位負責我們服務業貿易統計重視的統計讓我們知道哪些東西可以發展那他的基礎統計的基礎必須要有以上提供大家參考謝謝大家好謝謝杜教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8142.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8168.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
好的目前登記發言的專家學者都已經發言完畢那接下來我們請行政機關回應相關的意見依序請行政院秘書長國家安全會議還有行政院經貿辦談判辦公室國家發展委員會經濟部農業部衛生福利部財政部勞動部來做回應首先我們是不是先請行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8173.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8178.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
是 李副院長請冒犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8180.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8204.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士先生 大家好那美國川普政府在2025年的4月2號公布了對等關稅後那總統也在4月6號發表談話那提出了五大的因應策略包括了展開對美談判產業支持計畫中長期的經濟發展計畫展開台灣加一也就是台灣加美國的新布局 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8205.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8220.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
開啟了產業傾聽之旅這些都是我們目前所做的原則方針那主任長的話也在4月11號應邀立法院就針對美國關稅政策的因應作為進行了專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8222.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8241.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
就美國對等關稅的措施對我國產業衝擊的影響評估政府協助產業的因應對策政府五大因應策略有進一步的說明那另外的話我們的行政院的副院長鄭麗君也率了經貿談判辦公室等等的部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8243.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8260.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
美方的話由美國的貿易代表署來主責那雙方的話也在5月1號、6月25號、7月8號在美國華府完成了三輪的實體諮商那我們在實體諮商以後的話都有發布新聞稿對外說明進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8262.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8291.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那對等關稅談判的話呢它起因在美國盼望能改善它的逆差以及再工業化那美方呢依此提出的要求跟期待那我方的談判團隊的話呢那在總統的指示秉持著國家跟產業的利益維護國民健康糧食安全為核心的原則那針對台美關切的經貿還有合作議題我們協商溝通那期盼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8291.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8313.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
透過談判全力爭取最佳的對等關稅稅率也將產業界所受的衝擊降到最低那在此同時的話行政院也提出了因應美國關稅我國出口供應鏈的支持方案以九大面向二十項措施來協助農工產業的加以因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8315.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8339.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
面對美國政府的對等關稅政策我們始終秉持著深化台美的經貿關係雙方互利互補的原則來進行談判也期盼在談判中尋求達到雙邊的貿易平衡增進台美在科技及國安等國原領域的合作那以上報告進行主席及各位委員指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8344.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8346.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
第三位是行政院經貿辦副代表嚴惠欣 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8374.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8401.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
主席各位委員在場的各位先行大家好今天簡單跟各位說明一下我們現在由鄭麗君副院長所領導的台美經貿工作小組現在面對美國的關稅談判的一個最新的一些發展那我想美國為了要去處理長期的跟盟友之間的貿易逆差的問題所以提出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8402.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8430.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
這些對等關稅的議題所以原本在4月9號要開始起徵包括台灣在內比較高的對等關稅稅率的這些國家那這一個4月9號的時間現在仍然維持在暫緩實施那我們只實施10%的對等關稅那不過原本他提供了90天的談判期是到7月9號那不過就在7月 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8432.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8450.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
8號基本上時間要到期之前他在7月7號宣布讓這個各國可以有更長的時間維持到8月1號可以再持續跟美國進行談判所以在8月1號以前各國現在的所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8451.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8463.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
暫行的對等關稅稅率仍然維持在10%即便現在已經有25個經濟體以上陸續收到美國通知他們預期會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8465.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8479.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
這個從所謂20%到50%不等的對等關稅的未來的稅率但是這些稅率也是在8月1號以後才會開始實施那目前我們觀察這個關稅信函 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8482.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8505.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
他基本上發出的一些可能的考量看起來處理的方式也不太有具有一致性或跟談判的進展看起來可能也沒有必然的關係主要的我們的觀察是因為到目前為止我們看到有一些國家看來似乎已經在公開的場合表示跟美國的談判有達到一定的進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8506.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8524.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那譬如說柬埔寨政府在7月4號他宣布他跟美國的談判已經即將完成歐盟也提到他在跟美國也談到了原則性的協議但是他們還是收到了關稅的信函然後得到了一個新的稅率那可是像越南 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8525.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8551.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
美國宣布他跟他完成了談判但給他的一個20%的薪稅率可是越南卻反而沒有收到關稅信函所以簡單來講目前的觀察台灣目前為止還沒有收到關稅信函但是有沒有收到這個關稅信函目前看起來的解讀是美國政府是希望給各國更多的時間但是是希望可以加速 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8552.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8580.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
各國跟美國進行談判的誘因跟動力所以就台灣而言我們現在即便還沒收到關稅信函但就台灣的談判立場我們就是持續的在8月1號以前會努力的跟美國進行積極的協商那我們的目的就是希望在8月1號可以跟美國取得一個對台灣產業對國家利益最佳的 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8581.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8607.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
對等關稅稅率而這個對等關稅稅率我們也希望可以爭取到跟我們的日韓競爭對手更好的待遇這個就是我們現在談判團隊希望努力去這個衝刺的一個最重要的目標那我在這邊也要說明的就是8月1號這個時間點是美國設定給全球的期限 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8608.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8636.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
並不是給台灣的期限所以應該是跟國內的其他的事件是沒有關聯性的那此外呢就我們的談判團隊來說我相信因為美國提出對等關稅這個談判目的是要解決貿易逆差他要去檢視他覺得長期以來對美國不公平的關稅結構所以自然而然他當然會對台灣提出很多他認為有助於促進他的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8636.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8664.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
的商機可以增加他的出口成長的任何的議題但是對台灣來說我們會持續去堅守這些所謂產業跟國家的利益我們也會去捍衛我們的國民健康跟糧食安全但是我沒有我們的國際標準國際義務需要同時要兼顧所以這個是我們在談判過程當中一定會去尋求貿易跟產業之間的平衡性那 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8665.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8692.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我也要再次強調這不是一個典型的經貿談判通常經貿談判當然一定是要耗時至少兩三年以上可是這一次的談判是美國基於他的對等關稅他想要去快速的解決他長期的貿易逆差的問題而提出來的談判那台灣在因應這樣子的一個談判需求上面不是只有台灣各國同樣都面對了這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8694.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8706.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
不確定的談判挑戰不確定性很高不可預設性很高的談判挑戰那所以我們在這個過程當中行政院以及各部會我們都盡可能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8708.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8729.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
在立法院的要求之下來提出報告委員會報告書面說明以及可能還有包括親赴各委員會去進行一些討論那未來我們一定會在有具體共識的情況之下然後符合國際談判的慣例也在這個符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8729.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8749.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
大家的共同的這個共識之下來跟國人以及立法院來做事實的報告那我想今天各位寶貴的意見我們都會完整的記錄一定會回報未來一定會事實的來跟各位加以說明那再次的感謝產官學各界 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8750.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8766.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
還有包括我們立院的各位委員給予我們政府最佳的後盾那我想政府會持續積極的談判 謝謝好 謝謝副代表接下來我們請國發會高仙貴副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8786.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8814.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
首先我還是要感謝各位委員還有學者專家還有產業代表的一些建議那國防會以下就緊究因為美國的對等關稅政府的中長期的戰略的調整進行說明我想就如剛剛學者專家所說的的確川普的關稅事實上已經引發了全球經貿局勢的改變包括了全球將會進行第二次的供應鏈的重組 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8816.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8836.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
第二個就是美中對峙可能會導致中國內卷的負面效應的擴大還有包括總體經濟的不確定性也會升高那我想在過去其實政府已經針對經貿政策的調整的這個方向我們擬定了三個大的面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8837.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8865.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
第一個我們希望推動產業的創新轉型就像剛剛有學者講到的我們希望打造台灣產品的獨特性不可替代性我們希望由價格競爭來取代所謂的成本的競賽所以我們即將國發會還有相關部會即將推動AI的新十大的建設我們希望從智慧運用關鍵技術還有數位基礎三個面向來推動希望可以鞏固 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8866.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8887.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
台灣在半導體跟AI既有的競爭優勢維持競爭優勢的不變其中非常重要的一部分我們希望推展AI的智慧應用也就是我們希望將來可以把AI的相關技術導入到百工百業尤其是傳產跟中小企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8888.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8906.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
然後我們希望可以配合經濟部的中小微企業的多元振興方案然後我們整體的從結構面來提升我們中小企業跟傳產的競爭力那第二個其實我們希望可以強化國內的內需動人來因應國際環境的不確定的升高 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8911.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8921.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我們包括第一個我們希望我們可以打造這個六大區域產業跟生活圈然後配合我們要推動152項的重要的建設我們打造宜居宜業的產業環境我們希望這個面向可以提升台灣的投資動能 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8931.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8950.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
第二個呢剛才其實學者專家也有提到我們怎麼樣去提升國內以內需型的高附加價值的服務業那我想那個院長已經宣示了我們會有新的觀光的方案我們希望可以提振觀光產業那目前儘管會在推動的亞洲資產公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8951.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8965.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
管理中心事實上也希望打造台灣有一個高值的服務業同時呢我們也會針對婚育穩居育兒津貼等等的提供一個青年院生燃養的健康老化的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8967.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8981.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
進一步來刺激國內的消費的動人那第三個我們希望開展多元的佈局也就是協助台灣的企業會進行供應鏈的重新佈局跟重組 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8982.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9006.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
其實大家當中有講到一件事情就是說怎麼樣維持國內供應業的自主性跟經濟自主所以我們希望企業在進行供應業重組的時候可以優先考慮投資台灣也就是回到台灣所以我們目前已經通過了投資台灣的三大方案的2.0提供更優質的服務給願意回到台灣的企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9007.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9026.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
第二個,我們在協助全球產業布局裡面,我想非常重要的,剛剛其實委員也有提到,我們將來就會希望我們透過經濟部的在目標市場的台灣貿易投資中心,還有一些海外產業聚落的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9029.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9055.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
呃成立我們提供所有要到海外佈局的企業呢客製化的服務輔導他在當地可以落地那同時大家其實也有提到我們到底希望投資哪些目標市場哪些目標產業我想我們國家會在整體的戰略佈局裡面鎖定我們要打造的飛鴻功利念到底我們應該在哪一些國家佈局哪一些我們將來台灣必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9058.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9061.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
推動的關鍵性產業那我們在後面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9063.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9091.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
規劃的過程我們會等關稅確定以後我們會做一些更仔細的研擬那最後呢我想再次謝謝舉辦這次的公聽會然後各位學者的建言那我想國發會不會持續關注相關國際經貿情勢的變化然後針對政府要提升的提出的中長期的經濟調整戰略我們也會持續吸收而且那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9093.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9094.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
接受各方的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9116.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9124.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
主席 各單位代表承蒙貴委員會邀請參加今天的公聽會經濟部緊就因應關稅衝擊的產業對策還有經貿戰略的調整來做說明自從川普宣布對等關稅以來從總統院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9136.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9161.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
都有到下鄉到各地去了解可能會受影響的產業他們的心聲經濟部也密集的跟相關的產業代表們進行了多場次的座談終結這些業者的需求他們最主要最關心的就是希望政府能優先的給予金融資源還有擴大出口拓銷等需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9162.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9184.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
在應對的部分就短期的方面來說我們最主要的有採取三項的措施第一個是出口供應鏈的支持行政院提出的特別條例當中經濟部會投入460億元提供我們廠商相關的金融資源尤其是對中小微企業周轉性支出或者購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9186.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9195.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
機器設備貸款的利息補貼我們也協助業者拓展海外的市場在海外設立發貨倉庫或者展示中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9196.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9215.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
另外也将支持企业投入研发转型以及设备太旧换新等措施第二个是持续的来帮助我们业者争取海外的订单今年四月份我们特别针对可能比较会受冲击的产业包括机械金属 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9216.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9238.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
水五金手工具還有扣件人產業聚落辦理了全球搶單的大會總共有48國454位的國際的買主來台跟我們的業者進行媒合的洽商有了這樣子的經驗之後我們也規劃在今年的下半年也會再次的辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9239.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9258.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
同樣的這個搶單大會來精準煤和潛在的買主第三個是海外布局的服務經濟部也非常的關心海外台商受美國關稅影響的情形已經設置了專線專網的窗口提供可能受影響產業的還有業者的諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9262.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9289.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
至於對有益到海外布局的台商例如他可能會想去美國設廠或移轉到東南亞或印度我們也會提供目標市場的相關的資訊還有我們的建議來幫助他們尋找合作夥伴等至於在中長期的調整我們最主要的目標是要協助產業升級跟深化經貿布局 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9291.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9298.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
賴總統也有特別強調台灣的經濟體質要堅固出口導向以及擴大內需所以呢我們經濟部也會 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9300.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9329.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
配合推動落實總統立足台灣佈局全球加強美國行銷權世界的目標在立足台灣部分我們政府會幫助業者投入高質化的產品開發推動低碳化智慧化的轉型那我們也非常的歡迎國際的大廠到台灣加碼投資經濟部會持續改善經貿的投資環境延續投資台灣三大方案來幫助台商跟外商在擴大在台投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9330.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9351.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
在布局全球經濟部會持續帶領我們的業者開拓全球市場並且聚焦中東歐日本美國菲律賓等貿易夥伴例如我們已經在捷克跟日本設立了台灣貿易投資中心也會規劃今年下半年在美國設立提供台商一戰式的投資服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9353.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9370.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
此外,台美产业高度互补,尤其是在科技的领域合作密切。近两年,美国已经成为台湾最大的投资对象,我们的厂商主要是着眼于接近客户市场商机,成为美国供应链重要的伙伴。 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9371.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9387.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
随着国际局势跟供应链的调整,经济部会帮助有意去美国市场开发的这些企业能尽速的落地,同时政府会持续积极推动跟美国洽签避免双重科税协定,创造有利企业的投资环境。 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9389.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9405.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
在行銷全世界部分經濟部會運用既有的交流管道強化與美日歐產業合作深化夥伴關係我們也會幫助業者持續掌握東協印度等市場商機來打造台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9406.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9435.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
具有高品質安全健康永續形象的台灣產品經濟部將持續的關注美國關稅的政策還有國際經貿形勢的發展同時我們也非常感謝今天出席的各位委員各位專家還有企業代表所提供的建議我們會聆聽各行各業所需面臨的這個需求及挑戰也讓我們政府的應對的對策能夠貼合業者的需求以上報告 敬您指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9439.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9444.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
主席還有今天的各位學者專家為因應美國對等關稅對台灣的衝擊農業部秉持深化台美經貿關係雙方互利互惠以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9467.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9472.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
維護產業競爭力、穩定永續發展、確保農民權利等原則推動台灣農業施政及對外協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9475.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9491.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
同時農業部鑒於農漁業發展與國家糧食安全息息相關堅持適當關稅以確保我國糧食安全絕不會完全仰賴進口對於產業照顧也將以農漁民為優先與美方進行協商為因應美國關稅及國際經貿情勢的變化農業部已經提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9502.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9517.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
農業三大面向六大措施全力讓國家經濟穩定產業發展穩定及國人生活安心我們預計投入180億涵蓋生產儲運及產銷至外銷層面資金協助與生產場域補助及外銷獎勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9524.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9547.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那當中農業三大面向六大措施最主要的第一我們要強化農業的金融支持農業貸款利率加碼補貼第二提升農產業競爭力包括強化外銷能源體系透過我們農業試驗改良場所還有行政機構加強產業價值轉型協助取得國內外 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9552.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9568.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
標章及認證那第三協助開拓多元市場擴大國內外行銷擴大海外行銷那最後要跟各位先進報告其實從為了要因應美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9571.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9586.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
關稅所以農業部從今年的四月初以來我們陸續到各個主要的產地跟相關產業的農民還有農民團體以及農企業舉行了非常多場的這個座談會同時我們也設了0800的專線來協助農漁民或者是相關的業者諮詢了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9595.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9612.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
對應美國可能實施關稅的相關的影響我們主要的目的就是要確保農漁民的權利以上報告謝謝次長接下來請衛福部食品藥物管理署的林金富副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9623.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9630.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
主席 各位委員 專家 縣進 大家好今天大院第11屆第三會期財政委員會召開 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9632.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9651.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
今天的公聽會 衛部在此特別感謝衛部針對提供三 兼顧食安與農業利益之衝擊及政府應用措施政府將如何同步保障本土農業與消費者權益避免遭受美方高額報復性關稅 說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9654.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9667.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
在面對各項食品安全議題時本部秉持國家至上食品優先為前提始終以民眾健康為核心科學分析為基礎風險評估為依據作為決策之基本原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9672.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9689.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
本於審慎與專業的態度延期國際規範與科學證據在確保食品安全無虞的前提下訂定安全且合理的管理措施以維護國家整體利益與全民的健康福祉 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9691.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9715.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我國身為世界貿易組織 的會員國在食品安全管理的政策與訂定執行一直遵循以科學實證與風險評估為基礎確保從產地到餐桌的每一環節皆符合規範致力為民眾建構實在安心、實在放心的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9717.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9723.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
再一次感謝各位委員專家先進的寶貴意見衛福部會繼續努力以上報告謝謝好接下來請財政部莊瑞雲部長主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9747.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9763.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
現在緊究本部涉及到台美對等關稅協商重要議題的幾個重點跟各位做一個報告首先就是在這一次的談判當中針對美國非常重視的就是防堵違規轉運這個議題那對於這個議題我們海關採取了事前嚴防 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9768.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9774.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
市中嚴查以及事後嚴處的三嚴措施所謂的事前嚴防就是配合經濟部公告從今年的5月開始到必須要輸美產品必須要附原產地的聲明書那麼這個部分從5月7號到7月6號總共已經我們也查核了這方面的聲明書超過了17萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9792.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9799.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
9000件那麼業者的配合情形也良好在市中嚴查的部分我們是用系統來篩選高風險輸美貨物並且給警示那麼海關同仁就會嚴格查核貨物的產地還有標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9807.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9818.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
並且把查核的結果納入風險分析那在事後延處的部分我們在今年的4月到今年的7月13號已經查核了蘇美貨物9500多筆那麼也有移送經濟部國貿署依照國貿易法來採取的案件也達到106案 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9827.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9846.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
第二個部分我們會持續深化和美國貿易的便捷化的合作來維護貿易的一個次序台美雙方持續會推動擴大電子化的通關還有預先審核機制來簡化貨品進出口的程序和通關的作業並且會深化交流反傾銷稅還有平衡稅的調查資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9850.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9877.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
來提升我國的產業經營環境以及供應鏈的韌性維護首髮廠商以及國家的產業利益那第二個部分要報告的時候我們本部相關的財政支持措施以及其他的一個相關措施首先在金融支持方面為了減輕廠商的資金成本那麼本部在今年的4月21號已經發布了強化出口廠商金融支持的措施執行要點由我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9878.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9895.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
輸出物銀行來提供相關的減免措施包含了貿易融資利息的減收還有輸出保險費用的減免那麼我們輸出物銀行已經和27家的金融機構完成了簽約同時在今年的6月也建置了利息減碼平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9896.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9911.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
等到公告施行以後就會全面的開放使用同時在4月到6月之間也辦理了多場的廠商還有金融機構的說明會那對於中小企業所諮詢的相關問題也逐一回覆那麼也達到了959件 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9913.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9933.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那么在公股银行的协助部分呢本部会持续的督导我们公股银行依照金管会来办理对企业融资宽款措施那么对于符合条件就会提供环角本席或展延借款年期的协助并且会持续的推动中小及微型企业的振兴融资方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9935.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9955.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
來減輕企業在資金方面的壓力第三個部分我們也提供租稅協助方面第一個會根據的提供租稅優惠來支持我國出口供應鏈的產業那在今年5月7號也修正公布通過產創條例的部分條文其中第10條之一的智慧機械的投資抵減施行期間延長到118年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9959.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9979.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
同时还扩大了试用范围,新增了人工智慧以及智能检探的项目,也提高了支出的上限从10亿元提高到20亿元。另外对于有关新创产业的试用条件的部分,也同时在23条之一及23条之二做了相关的修正,来鼓励资金可以益助新创的事业。 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9981.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9985.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那第二個部分我們還提供了相關的協助措施來減輕企業和民眾的負擔那麼大家都知道今年的所得稅的結算申報呢延長了一個月那可以有效減輕企業和民眾在申報方面的壓力那另外也受理了民眾收到那個關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9999.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10009.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
政策影響可以申請稅付稅的申請嚴分期繳納的一個稅券那目前也核准了有6800多件那應納稅額也達到288億那對於營業人因為美國關稅的影響而我們採取的相關的一些可以退還營業稅亦付稅額就不需要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10023.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10028.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
逐步由國稅局報本部核准就由國稅局就可以辦理了那目前來說也已經核准了有72家退稅金額也達到1790萬元那另外本部也在我們本部的網站也設置了 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10039.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10054.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
專區來提供專人的諮詢服務讓企業跟民眾都可以及時的獲得的協助再降低業者行政成本部分從今年4月取科學園區的1224家的保稅業者可以按月匯報通關案件免付裝箱單那麼海關是透過保稅智慧服務平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10062.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10085.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
來擴大對保稅業者實施遠端集合這樣可以減輕業者的一個成本那最後呢本部將會持續關注美國關稅政策最新的發展就各個產業主管機關所評估產業所受的影響提供相關的資源以及協助那對於今天公聽會呢各位先進所提相關的意見我們都會納入參考以上的說明進行指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10089.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10093.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
好,谢谢部长。接下去是劳动部的黄珍娜次长。 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10103.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10126.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
主席 各位與會的女士先生 大家午安首先感謝貴委員會跟今天與會的學者專家產業代表跟工會夥伴就今天舉行了台美政府對等關稅協商我國政府的因應對策公聽會提供了許多寶貴的意見跟諸多的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10127.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10146.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那我現在就就勞動部因應美方實施對等關稅的影響推動勞工保護機制來降低裁員與減薪風險確保就業穩定事項二要說明今天的說明有兩個重點一個是掌握勞動市場變動的情形主動訪視事業單位跟工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10150.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10167.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
第二個部分報告的是因應美國對等關稅發展勞動部已經採行的相關措施穩定就業勞動部在美國即將宣布對等關稅措施之前我們就建立了受美國關稅影響事業單位的監測通報機制定期的會診 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10173.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10195.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
地方政府通報受到美國關稅影響而實施減班休息的事業單位名單以及僱主團體通報的名單並且針對受影響的事業單位由勞動部勞動力發展署的五個分署主動進行關懷訪視跟提供相關的協助措施同時也持續訪視相關的工會掌握勞動市場變動的情形及時的給予協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10202.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10221.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
為了避免僱主資遣勞工嚴重影響勞工的勞動權益僱主在實施減班減少工時的權益措施的時候應該要參考勞動部首發布的因應景氣影響勞僱雙方協商減少工時應行注意事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10222.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10246.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
以及勞僱雙方協商減少工時協議書我們有提供範例來跟勞工簽訂書面協議並且通報他所在地的勞工行政主管機關以及勞動部的勞動力發展署各所署的分署勞動部也都持續密切來監測減班休息的數據並請各地方政府的審慎把關積極掌握各縣市勞工產業勞工的狀況做最後的因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10252.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10267.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那勞動部除了透過勞動力發展署各所署分署主動訪視關懷廠商那我們從114年就今年的4月9號到7月10號為止五個分署總共訪視合計11157加次訪視的方式包括了電訪跟實地的走訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10275.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10302.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那美國政府發布實施對等關稅措施之後勞動部就展開了工會的訪視也已經跟台中、桃園、彰化、新北、雲林、新竹縣這些縣市的產業總工會跟他的會員工會來座談聆聽勞工的心聲以及相關的建議並且與工會建立了直接聯繫的溝通管道掌握到受衝擊的企業經營的現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10304.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10313.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
第二部分我們所採行的穩定就業措施為了降低勞工解雇風險對潛在受衝擊勞工提供薪資補貼鼓勵事業單位辦訓讓勞工能夠穩定就業勞動部已經啟動支持受影響企業規劃辦理訓練以及支持減班休息勞工再充電的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10328.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10350.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
其他支持勞工安定就業的計畫我們也將視勞動情勢的發展逐步來推動以全力協助勞工就業在支持受影響企業規劃辦理訓練的部分我們協助企業提升勞工員工的職能以維持企業的競爭力提供他企業內部或者是聯合辦訓最高補助到200萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10354.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10367.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
今年度受理申請的時限也延長到9月30號我們也鼓勵投保就業保險的民營失業單位跟非營利法人或團體積極的投入職能的升級 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10368.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10391.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
第二部分我們支持減班休息勞工再充電計劃我們專案協助在職勞工跟受僱事業單位因應美國對等關稅導致的減班休息勞工利用減班休息這個時段來參加訓練課程可以在減班休息前後的薪資差額內依照他實際參訓的時數申請訓練津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10395.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10417.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
每個月最高可以補助到17,210元那麼為了確保薪資差額較小的甚至到沒有什麼差額的勞工也能夠順利參訓我們特別也針對減班休息前月頭保薪資在30,300元以下的全職勞工同樣可以依照實際參訓的時數申請訓練津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10420.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10422.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
每個月最高補助2280元那麼補助事業單位辦訓的費用也加碼提高到350萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10431.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10454.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
為了降低裁員跟減薪的風險確保就業的穩定勞動部除了掌握事業單位的人力變動情形跟服務需求之外我們並主動聯繫關心受影響的企業工會聆聽受影響情形並收集相關的建議未來也將持續密切的監測掌握各縣市產業勞工的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10456.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10466.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
同時我們要視美國關稅實際狀況,據時調整因應及滾動修正這些措施,來保障勞工的穩定就業。 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10476.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10486.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我想今天依照立法院職權刑事法第58條的規定委員會應該在公聽會終結後10日內依照出席者所提供的正反意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10487.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10505.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
提出公聽會的報告送交本院的全體委員及出席者所以我們今天會把所有與會者所寶貴的發言意見作為未來修法的參考並會編成冊送交本院全體委員以及今日初列席提供建言的貴賓參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10507.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10520.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
如果各位貴賓還有其他書面意見或相關的資料也請盡速的提供給我們將併入本次的公聽會報告再次感謝各位學者專家以及政府機關代表的出席謝謝大家我們今天散會謝謝 |