| IVOD_ID |
16819 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16819 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-17T08:30:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-17T12:52:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:21:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685b29573f7f40ddb36ad9f551ce5fa921f80a0af5ed963d0f53935b1acfbab433b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部部長、財政部部長、農業部針對「因應嚴重災情、緊急重大事件，醫療院所承擔救護量能困境及因應台美關稅談判對台灣食品安全相關影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:15 - 12:52:00 |
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15627.64784375 |
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SPEAKER_15 |
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SPEAKER_01 |
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SPEAKER_15 |
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15631.02284375 |
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SPEAKER_15 |
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15631.44471875 |
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15633.16596875 |
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SPEAKER_15 |
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15637.62096875 |
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SPEAKER_15 |
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15638.32971875 |
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15642.22784375 |
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SPEAKER_15 |
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15683.11596875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
675.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
686.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
8億度的萬分之一你們把一場重大的這個災難因為要放進全國發電量去稀釋處理然後用全國每日6.88度來沖淡地方一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1799.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1814.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
報告委員會初期委員人數10人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會好我們現在開始開會請議事人員先讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1816.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1840.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
立法院第11屆第三會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議議事錄時間114年7月16日星期三9時至14時17分地點群賢羅801會議室出席委員陳委員昭之等14人列席委員黃委員國昌等4人列席官員環境部部長彭啟明等相關人員主席蘇兆吉委員清泉 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1841.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1853.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定邀請環境部部長經濟部部長海洋委員會農業部內政部國防部金融監督管理委員會針對光電設施對環境影響情形進行專題報告並被質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1858.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1881.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
本次會議由環境部部長及經濟部常務次長賴建信報告後委員陳昭之等17人提出質詢軍經環境部部長經濟部常務次長賴建信國防部軍備局工程營產處處長黃建勝海洋委員會海洋保育署副署長李小霞及農業部政務次長黃昭清及各相關主管等即席答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1881.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1882.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請問委員會上次議事錄有錯誤或遺落之處好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1908.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1932.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
沒有那我們議事部確定那本日會議的議程我們邀請衛生福利部部長勞動部長財政部部長農業部針對因應嚴重災情緊急重大事件醫療院所所承擔救護量能困境及因應台美關稅談判對台灣食品安全相關影響進行專案報告並被質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1937.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1965.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那我們現在介紹在場委員陳昭志委員王振旭委員接下來我們介紹行政官員衛國部邱太仁部長石耀署江志剛署長中央健保署石崇良署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1969.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1990.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
醫事師 劉業平師長護理及健康照護師師長 蔡淑鳳中醫藥師 蘇玉璋師長口腔健康師 張永敏師長護署醫療及社會機構管理委員會 副執行長 賴慧珍 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1998.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2023.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
長崎照護師檢任計政 白山崎好 歡迎文明健康署檢任計政 陳立堅好 歡迎保護服務師科長 邱秀琳好勞動部部長 洪森翰好 歡迎勞動力發展署黃靈毅署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2029.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2033.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
職業安全衛生署署長林玉堂 歡迎 歡迎勞動關係師王厚偉師長 歡迎勞動條件及就業平等師黃齊亞師長 歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2046.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2063.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
財政部常務次長謝玲媛次長歡迎歡迎關稅署副署長趙台安歡迎農業部常務次長杜文珍歡迎農糧署副署長陳啟榮國際事務司科長年利慈 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2076.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2091.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好,不要齁,站在通頭的好,謝謝,畜牧師副師長周志勳好,歡迎耶穌主祕,這個要怎麼唸?祕,祕智昌,這個名字我要怎麼唸? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2099.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2103.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
動植物防疫檢疫署副組長齊榮祥 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2108.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2137.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
今天要特別跟大家報告 跟委員報告因為今天中午有萬安演習1點半到2點 我們立完要熄燈的所以我希望在1點之前結束更早的話更好因為我們部長下午要陪總統去任性醫療 萬安演習然後我們洪森漢部長11點要撈跑要去主持大會 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2139.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2156.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
大家都因為這一陣子萬一大家很忙所以今天的質詢一定嚴格質詢嚴格質詢超過一分鐘我就站起來了我們昨天17個人尋答5個多小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2157.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2182.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
整個環境部跟經濟部大家都討論得很詳細該衝突的衝突該解釋的解釋非常好昨天那個效果非常好今天一個時間關係所以來我們請衛國部長還有朝中部長還有財政部次長等一下各報告五分鐘我們先請邱部長報告五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2187.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2197.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
主席 各位委員 女士先生今天大案第11屆第三會議社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開前提委員會本部呈要列席報告深感榮幸 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2198.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2217.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
持久因應嚴重災情緊急重大事件醫療院所承擔救護量能困境及因應台美關稅談判對台灣食品安全相關影響提出報告敬請各位委員不吝會議指教依背景氣候變遷導致的極端災害是近年來全球面臨的嚴峻議題面對氣候變遷衝擊健全醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2222.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2247.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
建成緊急醫療應變及自然調度機制時刻不容緩的議題二 醫療緊急應變及自然調度機制A平時緊急醫療服務網絡依據醫院緊急醫療能力分體標準規定其分為中度一般級共205家急救責任醫院提供前天後緊急傷病病患醫療照護同時依生活圈規劃14個急診轉診 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2250.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2262.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
網絡以區域聯網概念提供急診病人向上平行向下轉診以特定緊急傷病患之綠色通道給予急重急重症病人及時適切之轉診服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2266.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2287.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
醫療緊急應變機制從丹麥斯颱風發布海上颱風警報後本部啟動緊急應變小組展開緊急醫療應變機制由六區緊急醫療應變中心確認手下急救責任醫院運作情形外本部亦透過全國衛生主管群組和電話通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2289.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2316.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
縣市衛生局務必將洗腎以孕產婦完成撤離並於1月14年7月6號中午11時50分前以電話再次提醒截至7月12日12點10急救責任醫院所住緊急傷病患共713人持續調整急重難支付全體健保醫院總額今年持續編列預算調整急重難支付106人至113人共預住 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2319.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2334.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
221.28億元另外反映投入及重症照護的醫事人員辛勞並鼓勵醫院強化急診及住院照護量能及任性健保醫事人在疫組42.37億元用於 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2337.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2364.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
調整急診交病房及護理相關支付標準三 食品安全管理一 本部秉持國家至上食安優先為前提始終以民眾健康為核心科學分析為基礎風險評估為依據作為決策之基本原則在確認食品安全無疑的前提下訂定安全且合理之管理措施以維護國家整體利益與國全民健康扶持二 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2364.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2393.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我國順美世界貿易組織WTO之會員國在食品管理政策之訂定與執行一直遵循以科學實證與風險評論為基礎確保食物從產地到餐桌的每一環節皆符合規範並致以為民眾建構實在安心實在放心的環境本部曾答應各委員之指教及監督在此靜置謝神並請各位委員繼續予以支持以上報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2395.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2402.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
謝謝部長很精簡接下來請農業部也要報告5分鐘接下來請勞動部洪部長報告5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2414.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2430.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主席各位委員跟各位女士先生大家好感謝國委會邀請由本人向各位進行今天的專題報告敬請各位不吝指教本部一直以來都非常重視並致力於保障醫療院所勞工的勞動權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2432.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2451.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那我們在不同的面向都採取相關的作為首先有關加強法令宣導的部分每年各縣市辦理勞動基準法令的研習會讓勞資雙方可以就近參加同時也透過官網、臉書等多人的方式進行宣導使勞工跟僱主都能夠了解法令的規定進而來落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2452.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2467.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
其次和衛福部合作訂定相關的行政指導提升醫院的法尊能力本部積極協助衛福部訂定醫院護理師以及住院醫師的排班相關執行範例促進醫院合法排班有效保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2469.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2483.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
醫務人員的權益另外本部修正違反勞動基準法裁處罰還共通性原則那增列醫學中心和區域醫院那有積欠加班費或超過法定加班時數上限輪班間隔時數不足例價 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2485.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2506.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
休息排班及加班費計算未依法等違反勞基法的情形時那最低罰還金額從新台幣2萬提高到5萬元那這些條文案涉及到維護勞工及身心健康和經濟生活希望雇主要依法來辦理另外本部每年都會規劃醫療院所勞動條件專案檢查並設有多元的申訴和 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2510.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2533.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
督責的機制喔那對於違法的醫療院所本部會喊請衛福部加強督導那更會將其列為重點檢查的對象並且本部與衛福部合作那該部護理職場正義通報平台有接獲之個案也都會請地方政府配合查查另外勞動部依據職業安全衛生法的規定要求僱主應付 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2533.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2560.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
不要讓勞工因輪班夜間工作長時間異常工作負荷而生病之預防義務為了確保勞工痊癒受損能夠及時獲得協助本部也設有1995專線勞工可以就近向所在地的勞政機關申訴主管機關也會立即派員查處本部也會透過法遵法制以及補助等多元的方式督促並協助醫療院所遵守法令最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2561.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2590.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
本部也協助僱主補食人才提供求財推介媒合的服務113年已經協助僱主僱用28位醫師6000多位的護理以及助產專業人員以及592位護理助理專業人員另外配合衛福部延攬外籍專業醫事人員以開放取得衛福部核發醫事職業證書的外籍醫師、中醫師、護理師等可受聘僱於醫事機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2591.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2591.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2592.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2620.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
截至今年5月底外国人从事医疗保健及社会工作服务业的有效聘雇许可已经达1287人次那接下来本部还是会持续跟卫福密切的合作来协助医院提升法军的能力有效改善医院工作环境和劳动条件增进工作稳定度促进和谐的劳资关系共同建立一个友善永续的医护劳动环境以上报告进行各位委员部令指教谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2623.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2627.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 謝謝洪部長那接下來我們請財政部謝次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2641.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2662.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
主席各位委員先進 大家好今天貴委員會邀請相關部會就今天的專題提出報告財政部僅就相關業務做檢要的報告進行指教有關我們財政部書面報告說明的美國對台灣加徵對等關稅的概況請委員參與我們的書面報告我就不在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2664.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2679.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
以下警告我们进口食品的通关流程及查验措施提出怎样的说明进口食品的边境查验措施是由海关查核10道货物与报单申报的货名 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2679.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2706.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
重量及生产国别等是否相符另由卫生福利部食品药物管理署也就是食药署负责食品卫生的安全查验也就是说进口食品除填具进口报单向海关办理报关之外也应该向食药署申请输入食品的一个卫生查验由食药署来确认卫生安全是否符合标准 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2707.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2731.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
海關依照食藥署的一個查驗和通知訊息我們才可以辦理放行的作業如果食藥署查驗不合格進口人就必須依照食藥署的通知辦理退運或銷毀海關於貨物放行後的一日期會將進口報單的資料傳送給食藥署供食藥署做境內查核的一個管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2732.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2758.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我國輸入食品的衛生查驗標準及邊境查驗程序由食藥署訂定、修正及執行本部公務署與該署其實密切的分工也持續在分工合作這個合作關係也非常的良好我們會持續的共同執行食品進口食品的一個通關措施維護國人的食品安全健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2759.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2783.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
本部官署将持续协同食药署依法办理进口食品的通关业务并与美国合作确保供应链的安全及贸易便捷化深化台美经贸的互动同时密切注意美方最新的关税政策配合我们行政院台美经贸小组谈判的结果来办理后续相关事项以上报告敬请各位委员指教谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2785.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2786.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
謝謝 謝次長 那接下來我們請農業部 杜次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2800.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2806.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主席 各位委員 各位與會先進 各位女士先生本人很榮幸代表農業部今天列席社環委員會就這個議題來做專題報告農業部負責的部分是在台美關稅對台灣食品安全影響的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2815.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2839.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那就三个面向来跟大家说明第一个是台美贸易关系那美国是我们重要的农业贸易的伙伴那去年113年台湾有22.3%的农产品是从美国进口的那进口值大概36.9亿美元台湾是美国的第八大海外市场那美国输台湾的主要产品是黄豆小麦玉米跟牛肉 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2840.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2865.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
在出口的部分美国是台湾第八大的农产品市场那消化美国的农产品价值大约8.9亿美元那这是所有出口的农产品中大概占17.6%那主要的品项就是花卉跟水产品那至于美国对整个关税对我国农产品的影响在一个基础值上来讲就是依照WTO来说美国的农产品的简单平均关税大概是5% |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2867.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2892.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那台灣的農產品的簡單平均關稅是16.6%那美國採取這個對等關稅4月2號公布之後呢其中對我國輸往美國的重要的品項包括蝴蝶蘭、茶葉、毛豆、吳郭魚、鬼頭刀、鱸魚等這個影響比較大那農業部這邊也採取了金融支持然後協助我們產業競爭力以及開拓多元市場這三個面向來協助產業因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2894.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2916.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那第三點就台美關稅談判這當中對於台灣的食品安全的影響那我想大家也都知道涉及如果是食品衛生安全的進口農產品的邊境檢驗食品及食品原料的相關管理標示法令相關規範這是衛福部主管那進口的食品由衛福部食藥署 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2916.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2931.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
依照食品及相關產品輸入查驗辦法在邊境執行查驗如果有檢驗不符合規定的情形則由衛生單位依據食安法來相關規定查處並依據國人對這個相關牛肉豬肉即可食部位 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2932.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2952.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
及包裝原料這邊進行做評估那對於飲食場所餐飲場所應標示原料的原產地標示也同樣由衛福部支援來主政以利消費者辨識及選購那本部的部分是就農業貿易談判裡面是有關於動植物防疫檢疫措施的技術問題那相關技術問題當然是要依照國際規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2955.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2981.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
並遵循WTO-SPS的協定架構在保護國人生命安全以及動植物健康透過適當的邊境管制防範外來的疫病及有害生物入侵並免對我國的農業生產環境以及產業經濟造成損害所以重上述三個面向本部將密切掌握相關對等關稅的最新發展並持續與我們的產業及相關部會保持聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2983.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3005.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
協助我們的產業發展 經濟各方面的因應協助我們產業在提升競爭力並開創多元市場維護我國農業經營者的權益並顧及食品安全 以上報告敬請不吝指教 謝謝好 謝謝杜市長那有關本市會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄團人公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3008.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3029.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
跟大家報告我們這次雲加蘭的颱風非常非常非常嚴重昨天我們有報告我們有台電的正值員工促電6000伏特的電促電現在裝ECMO我們總統也下去看了我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3030.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3050.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
這個是正職員工,他們的外包員工也很多我們希望勞動部要加強安全的問題,他們的權益、公使都要加強我昨天也跟西北醫院院長聯絡兩次,昨天應該有跟他聯絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3054.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3065.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
希望他變了,情況不好,我們大家幫他禱告祈福那我們現在開始巡檔,做以下宣告本委員會委員8分鐘,列席4分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3068.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3085.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
10點半截止歡迎登記有書面執行請於上會前提出預期不受理暫定10點半休息10分鐘 沿著上11點半處理臨時提案11點截止收費 收案那現在請登記第一號的陳昭之委員詢問謝謝主席 麻煩邱部長邱部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3098.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3113.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
今天有幾個議題跟您討論但是我還是要先跟您談討就是老師拿分數當武器逼迫學生交出血液這件事情那因為訊息一直進來昨天我看到有一位受害者學生姓簡他出來說他忍耐了四年 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3114.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3116.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那跟同一篇報導說 視障政見行為已經進行了7年所以我認為是這個 學校在包庇教育部在裝睡那衛福部讓你選一個 是裝聾還是裝傻你選一下這麼久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3133.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3135.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這不只是倫理問題耶它涉及醫療法這個涉及醫療法還有這個不只倫理問題嘛醫療法跟這個人體研究法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3145.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3150.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
是我們是法的主管機關然後這個部分從研究的一個督導考核以及調查其實是世衛主管機關但是有涉及醫療法部林市長他又對接受媒體採訪說他有說就是監察院在調查那教育部等等也是在跟學校在調查然後等這個之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3169.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3174.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
衛福部再來做一次處理但是教育部已經完成了他有行政處罰都已經裁定了我就不再多談那請問衛福部現在要處理了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3180.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3197.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
是的我想教育部以及像地檢署也就自我調查所以這個部分我們可以期盼能夠調查得更清楚那衛福部現在要做什麼我們還是要堅持學生的人權以及學生的受教權的傷害絕對不能受到傷害所以如果以這樣的事件來講我們當然整體都要來檢討整個機制是不是能夠更加的落實所以我們第一個我們會把 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3209.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3217.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
針對受害的學生我們昨天也開過相關的會議怎麼樣來保護他的身心健康你要積極在做這件事很多學生喔 太多年 七年喔對 我意思就是說先最急的是趕快照顧這些受害的家屬以及他們的受教權還有他們的家庭因為這樣的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3228.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3230.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
然後我們會去跟相關的機關來檢討整個是不是能夠在連結方面更加的落實因為那個市長在這裡但是那個16號之後這個醫師是副市長劉副市長他在回答受訪者而講他當時認為研究中的抽血不是醫療行為也不是醫療輔助行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3247.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3260.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
但是因為他有提到說因為有關受試者的保護他覺得執行這個還是要醫護人員或學校的醫護人員或是醫檢室來執行部長我想問你同意嗎研究中的抽血不是醫療行為或不是醫療輔助行為您同意這個說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3261.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3268.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我想我們一切都要按照醫師法規你同不同意這個說法他說出來了副司長說出來了所以我就從國衛院喔他有關這個倫理委員會的審查紀錄中找到了一個我隨機去找了一個需要抽血的試驗那國衛院的這個倫理委員會有講到說抽血就是屬於醫療行為醫療輔助行為必須由具有執照的醫護人員來執行而且需要在醫療場所那即便是研究案也不例外所以我想請問部長是醫事師副司長的說法錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3292.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3303.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
還是國務院說法有誤呢?我想在醫療醫療法這個部分當然是很清楚他抽選是不是醫療行為或醫療輔助行為?因為這個部分不是在醫療機構的執行所以我們要了解一下醫療行為還是醫療輔助行為?他說都不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3313.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3332.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我覺得這件事情要拆開兩個層面來講因為今天是研究案裡面他我覺得從頭到尾這件事情最大的問題會在IRB到底通過了什麼這個學校到底那個執行的PA到底做了什麼這問題的癥結在這邊這是第一件事第二件事情我們家副市長講的是最好的照顧費是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3335.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3358.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
就是臭血啦我覺得這兩塊是不一樣的最好的照顧在procure裡面最好是醫事人員的這件事情可是研究案裡面在這個案子我們所以才會覺得剛剛委員垂詢說很像這邊我們衛福部要做什麼其實是每一個事業目的主管機關到底在他們所委託的兩位都是醫師啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3359.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3376.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
因為這個抽血有一點雖然說不是傷害但是這個侵入性的一個做法所以我希望衛婦是不是以後對於相關的這個研究案要設有這個查核跟檢舉機制可以嗎這我們會督導各個事業目的主管機關去做把那個標準拉一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3376.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3399.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
因為現在審查出去的東西每一個事業目的主管機關都有委託審查會價值還嚴重好好就是說你們再請你們繼續就是要有一些監察跟後來的集合制度好好謝謝部長那個衛福部推動三班護病比啦我知道你最怕這幾位啦六月底他首度撥付了獎勵金你知道他總共撥付了多少錢嗎到現在是5.96億 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3403.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3409.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那既然發了獎勵金,表示有改善喔?是不是?部長這樣有改善嗎?你錢都搬下去了,有沒有改善?我們這個三半富用筆的獎勵金發下去以後,也要求他要按照KPI來做,只能用在護理醫生的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3420.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3442.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我這幾天上網去查 結果發現不管是健保署的網站或是照護師的網站上都查不到今年上半年的三班負病比資料欸現在都七月十七了欸那為什麼資料還沒有上線呢你是怕規避監督嗎 沒有資料欸沒有 我們廠長在這邊也跟大家報告過我們整個醫學中心已經到達三班負病比合乎的已經六成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3443.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3446.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
就是上網 你上網沒有資料以前有 現在斷掉了市長報告一下我們目前的資料是由醫院做填的我知道醫院 但是你要催促 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3459.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3469.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
現在目前健保署的BPM是公告到12月沒有錯啦但是一到這個已經半年啦你沒有資料就是沒有資料沒有資料就是沒有資料請立刻我們會針對這件事啦好謝謝那部長您本身是資歷豐厚的這個醫師啦我想請問部長如果現在要你去值班OK嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3483.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3487.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
你OK嗎只要人民健康需要我上山下海都可以你可以值班喔那我請問昭緯昭緯您現在可以去值班嗎值夜班嗎昭緯可能常常在值班 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3494.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3514.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
還是有所低限不過體力是有差但是你看這張圖因為明年8月要進來兒科這個是2月26日的報導對外招聘幾乎乏人問津某些中南部的醫學中心55到60歲的主治醫師甚至必須在醫院睡覺值班就很類似能力當然不是做醫師但是他的行為必須像住院醫師一樣的來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3518.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3534.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那現在就很多組織醫師可能去招不到人嘛斷崖嘛就是說整個這個是人力斷崖那很多組織醫師去開業或是說明天醫師覺得說少子化他覺得未來就是夕陽工業他就沒有投入這個領域嘛那健保我知道之前健保署也會編列預算想要調高這個極重難科別的支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3538.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3553.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那144也有在監測這個專科醫師的人數那我可不可以請報告一下就是健保署這邊我想知道這個策略有沒有成功呢你調高致富標準有沒有增加那144的監測指標是什麼有沒有如所欲起 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3554.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3572.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我先跟委員做報告再請兩位市長跟市長報告一下第一個就是說我們重建保署當然加成他的給付不管是在兒科的診察會譬如說我們加成3%那先增加一個他給醫院有一定的力量嘛量能嘛那在醫事事方面也用兒童的一個照顧的一個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3573.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3589.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
你預期什麼時候會看到效果其實讓這樣的我們會看到其實很多醫院都針對集中男人症真的有加薪那自己加薪以後是不是外界的環境這個牽涉到比較複雜我們當然有在督導因為沒有兒科醫師就不得了了對當然我們今年的領證人數還到達123人是每年的容額是300人 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3596.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3597.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
現在是開業的比較多 留在醫院的比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3621.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3625.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以我們現在努力的目標是如何讓兒科醫師留在醫院請你繼續往這個方向去走好嗎那部長我還在請教你醫師加班費一加班降低所得稅這很多人期待但是他們覺得有可能是因為看得到吃不到為什麼呢因為醫師大家都認為他是責任制所以對加班的這個定義是模糊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3640.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3644.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那譬如外科醫師手術隨時後他去寫報告那算不算在工作通訊哪裡這麼發達那醫師在回覆這個護理站的訊息或家屬訊息算不算PGY算不算等等等等財政部今天是來謝次長我有看到這個您一邊上來我一邊談我有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3658.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3684.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
複稅署在新聞上回應說相關法規需要由主管機關法定就是說法定來訂定延長工作時間及規定的標準也要為服務用函式的方式去通案處理或是憲保署要修法在全民健保法醫療服務機構及管理特別管理辦法才能夠進行跨部會的討論啦我有希望這個財政部是不是可以更積極努力嘛就是兩個跨部門來處理是不是盡可能如果你們要做這件事盡可能讓明年報稅的時候這個時間讓醫師就可以去試用嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3688.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3703.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
為了留住醫院的人力 真的我覺得這個是需要來努力來做這是你們提出來的方法 試試看嘛那另外就是說比較困難科別譬如說你們可以借清楚比如小兒科 剛剛我提到小兒科可不可以適度的拉高那個上限就是這個免稅 加班免稅的上限我們都可以來研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3705.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3713.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好 謝謝啦您還沒有站起來我只好先離開了因為今天有安安演習謝謝主席 謝謝兩位所長一直跟我們在演繹這個等一下我會接著問謝謝謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長 組長接著我們請陳清威委員質詢謝謝主席 謝謝官員也請邱部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3736.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3754.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
委員長部長早部長這兩天沸沸揚揚的新聞就是師大這一群很可憐的女足球員學生非自願被教練要求成為實驗對象連續14天配合抽血有時候一天抽三次從早上起床一直抽到晚上 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3755.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3780.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那這邊呢昨天我也感到非常的不解因為林靜怡次長她評論說她對於這件事件是很震驚啊她非常想知道說這麼多學生的血液檢體到哪裡去了是學校在處理血液檢體嗎或者是和醫療相關的機構做合作部長你是不是也一樣覺得對這件事很不解那我想知道衛福部過了這麼久有哪一些新的資訊呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3782.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3808.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
好,謝謝委員的垂行我們聽到這樣的一個訊息的確非常難過說實在也很生氣因為學生的授教權、學生的人權的維護是完全沒有模糊的空間所以我們非常願意來協助這個職業主管機關你一定去了解,現在地檢署也去做司法調查整個了解以後該究責的我們要原辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3808.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3827.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那我先問一個問題抽血這件事情是不是要依市人員來執行是不是就簡單的問這個問題在醫療機構提供醫療服務的時候一定要依市人員這件事情是無用質疑那抽血可以在非醫療機構執行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3829.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3845.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
從前像我們的居家醫療其實有有這樣子的一個但是是不是醫事人員執行所以我覺得這件事情的重點會回到了IRB到底通過什麼然後這個這個PI到底有沒有按照IRB的這個計畫來執行因為這裡面的問題到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3849.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3865.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我覺得在以溫府部的立場我們是人體人體研究法主管機關我們是希望要求所有的事業目的主管機關按照法尊來做處理如果他對法尊不清楚的時候我們其實是做協同所以才會是在這個事件裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3866.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3892.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
整個教育部的IRB的訪查的這個機制到底有沒有什麼問題這是我們關注的第二件事情是IRB裡面特別是台師大的這個IRB通過的計畫到底是什麼然後目前因為整個教育部的案子還在進行當中並沒有一個完整的報告跟我們講所以這個地方我們其實會再跟教育部做合作把它做理解因為這個制度的檢討才能夠預防再發我真的是問一個很單純的問題第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3897.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3922.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
抽血到底需不需要醫事人員執行就這麼簡單 部長部長你回答一下原則上醫法令是應該要這樣對阿 依照醫療法就是應該要醫事人員執行嘛所以你可以介入阿 你是可以介入的阿我給你看這個就是學生 我給你看我們要瞭解他整個過程嘛如果的確有發生這種事情當然我們就要究責 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3923.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3947.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
好我先給你看這個是學校內部這個霸凌的調查報告他講說他給誰抽血沒有醫護執照技術不好再換成誰抽血還有一些學生他是直接把他整個被抽血的過程都錄影下來放到Threads還有把他自己拿著他的血去做離心也放到Threads他把這些事都公開因為他們現在拿到畢業證書了他不再那麼害怕了他願意站出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3951.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3966.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這個你就可以介入啊 如果我是部長我直接去找這些學生問說誰幫你抽過血你們醫事人員的名單就在你們的手上欸你不是最快就可以知道這些人到底有沒有符合醫事人員的資格嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3967.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3985.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
你還需要等教育部的調查報告教育部告訴你誰幫誰抽過血然後你再來跟你比對你需要這樣子嗎你衛福部跟教育部一樣大一樣大你本來就可以主動介入調查不是嗎違反醫事法醫療法是你們執行的業務耶對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3990.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4002.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
如果以人體研究法來講,當然世衛主管機關要去做,他的權責是監督、調查還有處罰,還有去懲處但是違反醫療法,違反醫事法令當然我們一定會趕快去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4009.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4023.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
如果真的有違反醫療相關的法案,我們是整個究責啦,因為這個有時候跟,你也知道嘛,跟老師有跟PI有關係嘛,對不對但是很單純的他被誰抽血這個人是不是醫師人員,對你來說應該很簡單整個系統來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來,來 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4033.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4061.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
因為這個的確我們要確定他抽血的每一個去抽血這個動作的人是誰我們去調查清楚才有辦法去做然後他的原因整個他的來友是怎麼樣整個了解以後我們要知道他的輕重才能夠給予最適當的懲處我們現在已經跟教育部合作一起來努力你已經接觸到這些受害者了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4062.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4086.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
還沒我們先尊重世界主管機關他們交易部還在調查所以你在等他們給你名單意思是這樣子我們有含請交易部就是針對我們以涉及可能涉及人體研究法裡面哪幾條的問題我們有含請他們也能夠去調查部長我給你一個建議其實你就是醫療法的主管機關你也可以禁訴執法啦就看你要不要做而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4087.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4094.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我還是這樣子介意你啦你其實很快找到這些人問到誰幫他們抽血你很快就可以知道他們是不是醫事人員了 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4096.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4118.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我覺得在人體研究法裡面有一個很重要的精神第一個究責PI第二件事情受試者保護所以在受試者保護的情況下面的時候怎麼去approach才不會造成這些受試者的二次傷害這件事情所以我們在這個地方我覺得還是會拉到這個事件的本質第一個校園八零案疑似 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4119.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4144.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
第二件事情我們的人體研究法的違法的部分要就責PI我覺得這是這這件事情應該要去處理的至於其他的細節的部分的話同步進行的是我們醫療機構是不是這一個教育部這邊的協同的子計畫這個部分這個是我們可以目前馬上做的我對你們很有信心我很相信你們可以兼顧他們的隱私跟保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4145.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4164.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
但是也可以做到你們執行醫療法違規的這些糾察好嗎好再來部長這是很多醫師關心的也是許多基層診所現在給我一些他們的報表去年我們一起簽下了一個主決議這個主決議你是說6月30號以前你要達成健保點值0.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4166.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4182.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
像前幾個禮拜我們一起出席活動您接受記者訪問你說非常的有信心那最近這些基層的醫療告訴我說去年第四季他們的點值大概是0.8然後你們是不是這週會開始幫他們補到0.9是不是有這件事可不可以給我們一個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4184.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4205.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個補兌已經在進行這個禮拜開始在撥款這個禮拜在撥款那今年第一季他們是有到0.9那第二季也就是您曾經給予的承諾6月30號以前可不可以到0.95這件事情您認為做得到還是會跳票 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4205.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4219.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
跟委員報告一下第一劑,因為第二劑還沒有出來第一劑我們的所有的不管是醫院、基層、中醫、牙醫所有的部門六個區全部都在0.95以上,只有台北區是0.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4226.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4234.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我這個表上面你在講第二劑還是第一劑整個西醫基層是0.946醫院是0.95會要0.9所以這兩個平均起來在第一劑西醫我們在講中醫跟亞醫就已經到達0.95了那第二劑應該是差不多這樣的水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4244.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4272.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
第二季你現在應該有數據了吧還沒出來我們在這邊是幫他們說說話因為第二季你才開始個別總額的這些限制所以我們希望你不是只透過不管是這個核酸或者是斷頭或者是個別總額的限制去讓他們達到0.95我們上禮拜有三讀通過一個特別條例請問如果你有實際上 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4273.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4279.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
有這些配置的話你會不會把它拿來補健保點子你要怎麼做你的安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4280.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4306.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
據瞭解所有的一個黨團提出來都很關心到我們醫藥的韌性醫藥的韌性所以這個部分的確是應該是我們面對國際間的一個挑戰裡面的確應該是先補醫藥的韌性那當然因為我們現在的在今年的四月行政會也通過了就是只要補的在安全準備基金只要是補進來的都可以再用在我們政府覺得需要所以將來 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4307.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4331.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
如果真的是點子到達不夠的時候當然是可以補啊這個已經明文已經規定了但是我們現在點子跟委員報告一下其實我現在到在議界去看真的大家都覺得相當的欣慰啦已經到達跟以前差很多啦但因為關稅即將來臨嘛我們也擔心原物料會變貴還有川普給予一個這個什麼最惠國要價的政策主席我時間到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4337.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4338.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
好部長問你最後一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4363.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4380.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
醫界對於這兩個附帶決議都表示高度的重視那我們想問你會不會因為執政黨委員都投反對所以即使通過了約束了衛福部必須要做這兩個附帶決議但是你會影響到你執行的這個成果我想我們衛福部是一個國家的部門政府部門我們所有的政府部門就要創造人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4391.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4409.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
福國利民的一個各種措施嘛所以只要對政府的部門是很負責任的不是短暫的是長期的一個一個能夠穩定的在各方面的保護國家的安全我剛剛已經有講這兩個附帶決議的內容啦你認為有沒有符合你剛剛講的這些條件嗎你剛剛說福國利民 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4415.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4436.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
第一個就是說當然以單單某一個方面來講當然我們如果有某一個方面某一項目他對那一個部分的政策當然會有幫助但是是不是會影響到其他的一個國家的整體的發展這個也是政府部門必須要無私的 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4437.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4460.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
來考慮到以國家整體的發展來處理所以我們非常謹慎的來遵照我們所以你的意思是說你還在評估你不曉得你有沒有辦法落實這兩個附帶決議我們一切都會依法辦理啊我們會依法辦理謝謝主席 阿姨你等一下再問好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長附帶決議是我提的好 謝謝抱歉啦 今天是控制時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4465.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4467.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
來 繼續我們請王玉琳質詢好 謝謝主席 我們有請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4483.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4508.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
委員好部長好 台師大這一個女卒她們這些學生被違法抽血的這件事情如果我們從這個人體研究法裡面我們攤開第二條來看它開宗明義你這個人體研究要尊重研究對象的自主權而且對研究對象侵害要最小 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4509.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4536.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
要保障研究對象的權益在這個事件當中到目前為止我們看到的校方完全違反這個學生自主的意願強迫去抽血而且現在所揭露的如果是連續14天每天抽血高達三次這個是對他的侵害最小嗎一般人都難以想像啊你每天要被抽血連續14天有這樣子喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4539.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4563.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我不知道這一個研究計畫當時是怎麼通過倫理審查委員會的怎麼通過的因為如果他當時有載明這樣的一個情況我光看到這一點就不合理啊你今天只是為了研究而研究完全去忽略掉一個研究對象他該有的基本權益有什麼樣的研究會連續14天去抽學生的血 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4564.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4583.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
過去你們有看過這樣的相關的研究嗎密度這麼高我覺得這件事情非常的離譜耶那另外離譜的是他去年其實就有學生反應了我要問的是那衛福部你們是這部法的主管機關喔你們什麼時候才知道這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4584.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4608.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
去年時候學生揭露的時候有通報到你們這邊來嗎我先跟委員報告一下謝謝委員關心這件事情我們感同身受跟委員一樣那但是我們一切都是按照依法來辦理其實人體研究法的確主管機關是衛生福利部但是人體研究這個研究的監督查核管理處分及研究對象權益的保障是教育部我知道這個事件是教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4612.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4637.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
所以我們當然是尊重教育部的調查跟處理嘛那我們當然以法的畫面我們只是說怎麼樣去把它落實這個法我知道但是部長我要告訴你一件事情就是說原來的法是這樣子並沒有錯以這個事件真正要負責的目的世界主管機關是教育部教育部沒有負擔起督導查核的這樣的一個任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4639.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4656.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那這個會不會有所謂的官官相互的問題他們通通都是教育系統又是台師大提出來的研究所以對他呢就輕輕放下那這個事件已經暴露出來如果未來我們的這個法的本身都是交由目的事業主管機關管轄 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4657.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4674.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
但是呢他的倫理審查委員會看起來又沒有積極的發揮這個監督審查的功能那怎麼辦這是漏洞啊我要求你們根據這次的事件要去看到這樣的現象就是都是來自同一個體系的官官相互是免不了的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4674.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4694.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這個就是我現在看到的情況我希望你們好好去調查清楚包括這個倫理審查委員會是不是失功能找了哪一些的對象這個委員會有沒有夠公平公正專業如果有的話應該第一時間這樣一個計畫根本連通過都不應該通過我自己的看法是這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4695.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4723.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
因為今天時間有限 還有很多議題要問接下來就是民眾最關心的食安的問題這件事情必須 衛福部跟大家做說明今天農業部也來 可能一併要跟國人表示清楚因為現在傳言滿天飛我第一個要問的是現在美方有沒有要求我們取消美牛美豬的產品的標示 有或沒有你們接到訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4724.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4746.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我想台美的談判這個部分是還在談判中所以我想這個是還沒有結論的時候我想就未來我由行政院這邊來所以你們都被下了風口我們衛福部當然就是要堅持以食安照顧人民所以衛福部的立場不會取消產地標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4747.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4774.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
是或不是我們一切都是會按照那個現行的法令食安法22條是要標的喔其實我們是一個身為一個WTO的一個國家我們當然是要國際的標準部長你回答我直接的問題我今天時間很有限我們科學分析跟國際的一個規範我這三題你就回答是或不是有或沒有就好不要再說明了有沒有要取消產地標示有或沒有就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4775.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4792.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
謝謝委員因為國際的慣例底下我們在面對談判的過程我們都知道很多國家的你不要再講這些我的時間很有限有或沒有不敢回答第二個要不要放行美牛的絞肉跟內臟這個是食安法第15條裡面的規定有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4793.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4814.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我想針對所有的內容在他們其實之前叫做National Trade Evaluation NTE裡面其實都有以前多的議題美國其實是很關心的那有沒有要放行嗎我問你有沒有要放行很關心的議題當中呢其實大家都會進一步去思考如何去去因應這樣所以已經鬆口了就是有可能要放行 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4815.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4835.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我想這個議題其實因為牽涉到在談判的確在食藥署已經觸及了三級的機關的江署長其實安心署長對這部分有點困難針對這個重要的議題整體的國家的談判我們是配合所以你是配合如果是經貿談判小組說放行你們就照辦就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4836.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4840.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我想整個食品安全我們是以我已經知道你的答案了只要上面談判上面說放行你們就照辦第三個來季的容許值現在0.04是不是要放寬到0.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4851.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4874.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個部分我們在食安優先的前提之下要達到食安優先其實在風險評估的前提這個有沒有放經貿談判小組曾立軍副院長說放你們就放我們一定是在食品安全的科學分析風險評估的架構之下那我知道了你們這三項都有可能要開放都已經觸及了只是你們現在沒有辦法回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4876.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4902.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
接下來我要問勞動部一樣是關稅的議題我們看到衛福部在這個食安把關上面在關稅上面通通都是要聽行政院的指示邱部長你可以請回我接下來我要問的是洪部長一樣是關稅議題我直接問你這一波的關稅預計會衝擊國內多少的勞工行政院是說12.5萬地方政府估起來是50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4903.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4928.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
到底會衝擊多少我想現在關稅談判的結果還沒有出來這當然都會有不確定的地方就是關稅出口稅率的數字還沒有最後談判的結果出來這個我想這個相關的預估都是非常參考性的而已因為不同的數字當然就會不同受影響的程度所以那個Range行政也估了一個12.5萬不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4931.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4940.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
這個談判的數字沒出來簽我就不講這個數字今天還有一個更重大的公安的問題我要問你這個台積電的外包的職災 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4942.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4964.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
事實上這個昨天剛發生這一個也是一個很重大的就是他的這個冰水管就是墜落現在這一位員工受傷工人受傷還在搶救當中那但是呢我們發現是不是在去年台積電在南科同樣有一個類似的 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4967.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4983.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這個需要你們證實就是在南科18A廠有一個外包的僱員遭到905公斤一樣是冰水管重壓身亡有沒有這件事情我們可能要去了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4983.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5010.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
你們作為主管機關都還不知道這麼重大的質問沒有通報我以為你問的內容是非常非常細的所以我們可能要去了解一下你們都沒有獲得任何的通報嗎我今天要提醒的勞動部就是說如果是同一件的話這個2024年已經有一件現在是在台南那現在又在嘉義又同樣的類型都是冰水管這樣的一個施工出現問題然後重壓導致員工身亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5013.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5026.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
你們照照來講 針對這樣子同一個類型的案件勞動部應該有責任 這個涉及到這個職安的問題同一個類型 那應該就要提出警告或者是提醒大家怎麼樣去訪犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5027.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5050.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我分兩個部分第一部分是我們這兩天我們回去把到底有沒有這樣子的事件就是是否這樣子的敘事是否屬實我們會把它弄清楚那弄清楚以後來跟委員辦公室來做報告這是第一點那第二個是說如果真的有屬實的話我想該依法那要來做什麼樣處理的可能不是只是規勸該依法怎麼做處理的我們就必須依法來去落實來處理就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5052.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5068.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
你們作為這個勞動主管機關就是這麼重大的職災不應該是你們不知道你們應該第一時間都應該要通報應該是要知道的所以這個是看到新聞上面是這樣子講的就是說當事人他們還有去陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5069.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5097.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
就是有這樣的一則興亡這個是我們看到的然後我們連到最新的昨天又一樣是冰水管所以我要你們好好去了解的是像這一類的半導體他們需要的這一些大型的重物的這個設施設備它在移動跟搬動的過程當中它會造成工人這個職災就是蠻嚴重的那這一類型你們就有責任要去分析原因然後善盡提醒而且要去督導 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5098.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5117.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
跟恩文說明其實過去以台積電它其實在公安相關的記錄是算是蠻不錯的就是因為它這是一個很旗艦性的企業那當然最近發生這些事件我想我們也願意跟廠商來做更多的討論跟協助然後導致有這樣的一個情況我們願意來協助因為確實過去以台積電的這個它的工程的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5125.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5149.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
它其實是相當表現相對是比較好的那但是這幾件事情大家也覺得遺憾所以我們願意來給跟台積電來做討論哪些部分需要我們再多做協助那我們也希望這個模範生未來可以持續成為大家的模範因為我覺得這企業的領頭羊這很重要好 我要求你們要去查清楚重點是未來的防範不應該讓這樣的事情一而再再而三的發生好不好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5152.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5168.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
謝謝委員 謝謝部長下一位我們請蘇清泉召委謝謝主席我請勞動部部長請部長 財政部次長農業部次長 兩位次長來 第一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5184.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5191.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
部長 這個問題我上個禮拜醫院協會 區醫院協會都一直來反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5193.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5216.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那你們開會就這樣倉促的決定說醫協中心跟區議院要比照上市公司來管理只要違反勞基法就要加重處罰這個反彈非常大那我有找師長來做協調但是反正有1000個理由說一點被實施8月1號 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5217.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5230.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那這個是非常嚴重,我是覺得,我常常跟你電話聽說你是在中邪,你是怕今天事情不夠煩,不夠派出力,要跟火上加油,那你的看法怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5232.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5247.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
跟所有人說明喔其實我想老戶在這一次這個這個處罰罰還的採處罰還的公共性原則的調整上面其實我們並沒有增加對醫院更多的管制性的要求其實只是針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5250.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5274.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這個財儲他的下限從原本是兩萬元到一百萬現在改成是五萬到一百萬其實我們上限也並沒有動薪資的部分我想是沒問題就是兩萬到 風時的問題對那我現在現在我的意思是說我們其實只是從兩萬提高到五萬這花款是吧對我們只把這個花款從兩萬提高到五萬到一百五十萬啊沒有沒有我們上限還是一百啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5275.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5304.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
上限還是一百萬上限是一百萬只是下限的部分從兩萬拉到五萬那這個我要強調的是我們並沒有提出更多的管制性的要求只要醫院能夠遵守法規把法規做好這個調整其實對醫院來說並沒有影響啊我跟部長講這個勞基華是霸王條款霸王不是你做保健的比霸王一向就是醫療院所碰到這個大家都坐在等 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5305.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5317.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
公家醫院也有約聘人員他也是壓力都很大那我跟你剛剛陳昭志委員一個好幾個委員在講台灣有韌性台灣能夠發展台灣可以這樣現在不錯齁那是台灣24小時在碰 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5321.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5337.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
所以晶片業者 他們三班坐 另外一班叫做On call所以是四班人兩輪 那就是付出很高的代價那些人都是在賣肝啦 賣命啦那他的酬勞250年薪 300年薪 500年薪 應該的那醫療人員 剛剛陳昭書人講的值班 熬夜 現在我去某一個醫學中心的急診室 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5350.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5359.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我去看他結果小兒科的急診你知道看病的那個兒科醫師是幾歲嗎57歲他看著我就站到後腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5363.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5391.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我做到副教授還要看急診還要加上媒體加上媒體是練不了的因為孩子大家都很緊張所以我要跟你報告現在醫院是全部人都納入勞基法包括住院醫師也納入勞基法住院醫師值班都有限制工時也限制反而是保護呢現在醫院的主力是主治醫師在值班看你有要求嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5393.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5395.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
富山哥平均要60塊啦麻醉哥 我說現在開桌一開超過八點鐘 十點鐘 要很多啦那都麻醉哥 都醫生 外國醫生大家在那邊 拚拚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5408.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5423.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
對這是很嚴肅的問題那個跟文說明我們其實正是要來保護醫療人員跟醫護人員的勞動權益我們就是因為重視他們的勞動權益也是因為有很多的醫護人員來跟我們反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5424.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5452.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
其實醫院如果違法其實有幾個相關的法規違反的話其實常常只是被罰兩萬元這個違法的成本真的太低了其實這正是很多的醫護人員來跟勞動部反映認為這個財儲過去的財儲不符合比例原則所以我們很怕現在醫學中心跟區醫院因為很多區醫院都是在在各個縣市的偏遠地區尤其區醫院都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5453.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5475.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
石中良說燈塔醫院,我看是碼頭醫院或是標桿醫院都沒關係反正那些都很重要那些都是現在主治醫師級在撐那個醫院學院李輝鵬他的兒子好像神經外科他兒子半夜要去開刀把小孩子丟給他他阿公在過分主治醫師其實現在是適用腦肌法的84條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5477.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5493.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
主治醫師現在 住院醫師住院醫師那是沒有問題 主治醫師沒有公實規範對不起 主治醫師沒有公實規範我告訴你 過去了 因為說去買的走走要用檢紀 想要檢紀都要去買所以如果用檢紀 昨天沒人要開桌沒人要拒收 有人求像日本這樣一個產婦 要去洗衣服 救護車 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5503.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5529.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
請問施加醫院沒有一間要收台灣如果變成這樣那一頓就停產這個跟委員說明我們其實正是很關注醫護人員的勞動的權益所以我們其實才做這個方面的調整那我們也覺得我們也看到現在醫護人員這個人才流財相關的困境所以我們也才覺得更需要院方把 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5530.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5547.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
法尊給做好,這才有助於流程我們在熬夜,我們在值班,我們在亂24小時熬夜是很累的耶六頭目,六的時候我就在錄影,博電也在錄影皮膚會老化,免疫力會下降,那是怕白的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5548.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5559.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
不然我就繼續動下去你信我們婦理人員如果是大一班常常上那連月經週期都會亂欸要很緊張但是啦這台灣的妹妹是在這,台灣的韌性在這所以你這個案要實施來我們財政部處長我問你喔川普說加班費、值班費都免稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5574.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5583.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我覺得他講得很好啊 雖然川普常常亂講話 但是他講這個非常好因為那都是在賣命 整個美國要進步也是這樣這的人為了台灣 不關是服務業 不關是醫療我們公家醫院的醫師 我們社團法人 財團法人的醫師都是這樣在碰這的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5598.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5600.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
極重震懶的主治醫師他這樣賣命拿個值班費現在都要繳稅而且稅都很重 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5607.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5633.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們現在始終處長跟部長在推說這些家職班會不管公家醫院 不管私人醫院 不管財長法醫院都可以給免稅 美國就這樣幹啊我們能不能這樣幹不然的話 組織醫師 重症醫師全部跑光了都招來經受 因為經受可以執行業務所得嘛所以你這個事情非常嚴重 要修法 我跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5634.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5644.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
財政委員會的人說要修法 給他免稅額啦什麼特別扣除 但是那都不太可行就是把夾環會 值班會直接認定你有這個Data嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5646.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5662.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
跟委員報告一下其實我們也了解我們中央健保署其實有在檢討這部分那其實我們財政部非常的積極已經有函詢衛福部在釐清這個延長工作時間的加班時數跟他的支付標準的問題那這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部來演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5664.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5693.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
你把他每個月的那個所得等下除以他的工時然後算出來每個小時那他如果超時的或者是時間外的就讓他免稅能夠報出來 這樣可行這個沒有多少錢嘛不然的話留不住人喔 我跟你講我覺得建議蠻好的這個部分我們來看看我們財政中心可不可以跑一下但是那個工作時數可能醫院才會有所以這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5694.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5722.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
你要積極來做 不然的話就很嚴重 被勞動部再K下去的話我告訴你 兩頭空連陳先生都不想值班了還是有受那個勞基法的一個加班時數規定的一個限制啦所以 對你們是用醫師法所以我們會持續的來跟衛福部那持續跟我們的醫療院所這邊衛福部看看他們有沒有這個我們的一些醫師的一個加班時數的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5724.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5743.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我希望會務部還有那個時事署長跟家政部要不要積極啦這個公家醫院的意思也是一樣那你如果沒有的話這個社團法院醫院、私人醫院把這個拉高把這個有加值班費免稅我要跟公家賠償一點點賺賠償一點點 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5746.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5757.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那是很嚴重的問題你現在值班的人都五六十歲六十幾歲值班耶我們屏東有婦產科醫師八十五歲還在控完價還在值班耶一個八十五歲一個六十五歲請問是委員其實我們都去過那大家救人耶所以這個你們財政部不要說到財政部說到負稅層大家都抬高抬高不委員我們你確定是有夠過分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5776.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5793.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我們還是必須考慮租稅的中立性跟公平性啦但是我們了解醫療院所的我們的醫生的一些他工作的一個特殊性所以我們會來檢討這個合理性你的多久可以討論出來這個我們會看跟衛福部一起合作兩禮拜一個月應該是沒辦法這麼快一個月可能也沒辦法這麼快 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5798.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5809.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我們會積極來處理兩個聯席會一直來跟你K我們可能也需要一些Data來研究看怎麼樣的加班時數比較合理報告一下這個衛福部我們有請健保署這位很會心會心還是會心很會心地做了很多的討論很會心地做了討論也很用心地跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5828.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5844.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
現在是請醫院協會因為這個科別有它的複雜不同性所以我們用最快的適度所以我想也拜託財政部能夠用最快的適度因為希望在今年能夠完成這樣的一個制度那明年就可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5858.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5869.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
現在他就看一半乾淨跟那些醫院是救人的單位啦所以那個我們開刀絕對不會開到一半就停因為他的想法跟我...跟你就不一樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5871.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5884.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
他是算不太年輕 他很年輕他的生活就跟我們不一樣 你們常常說的理想 為了陪人 救人什麼的說那些五四三的 現在都沒在聽 我們那個時代真的是要有這樣站在內地 但是現在不一樣所以 現在很specifical的所以這 施主長你趕緊啦 一個月 一個月 一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5900.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5921.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我們會要求臺灣醫院協會盡快希望在幾天之內就能夠提出來提出來以後就請負稅署能夠財政部能夠做然後我們這邊相關的成績衛護部的高階會議也一直在討論怎麼樣把它落實那最重要就是財政部這邊我自己都吵死了對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5922.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5929.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
因為 部長你這個案對的請人家是要執行你硬是要執行就對了啊你就要看要怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5931.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5954.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
實行上的那個態度有很多很多嘛你不要再火上加熱讓我們這個這個已經很慘了會員說明我們願意來跟醫院來協助他們相關的法尊的輔導我想這我們都願意做但是我們做這件事情正是我想大家都很在意醫護人員的勞動權益我們正是因為重視醫護人員的勞動權益到時候醫院就一句話就 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5955.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5958.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
都吵死了 現在在開桌 開桌房已經滿載了反正叫你把你撒出去撒出去 我們請什麼在地財 因為鄉村再來當工 當工在意高雄 都在地財其實我們其實針對警察的手術如果說我要給你撲 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5972.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5992.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我們如果針對緊急性的連續手術其實是我們有開了一個這個牢記法的裡面相對應的這個彈性其實如果是因為緊急手術他沒有辦法如時間的下班的話其實在這邊是有彈性的所以不用那個問題其實我們現在看到最多違反的問題就是不給加班費不給加班費這有助於流財嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5997.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6015.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
不給加班費,難道我們就是應該沒有沒有,1.25億的要求,1.25億的薪資的調整我在這裡也跟你承諾為了不給我們的錢,健保提供員的錢我們大部分都用在改善勞動條件,增加薪資這個我們可以承諾,我們也可以責成醫院協會跟區議員協會 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6017.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6026.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
每一張碼放在一起都在改善 市場已經改善 大家都變我們從數據上面 統計上面看到最多的就是沒有如實給加班費 這個我們來努力這個難道不給加班費 勞動部可以放鬆嗎好 那再來農業部 來來來我還有30秒 三十秒就好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6045.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6060.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
現在很多市街市地的來陳情來陳情都是我跟張嘉軒在一起我平常都在市地市街市街兩個我們現在榮譽木美國進來的這些產品我們的關稅是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6061.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6069.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
差不多6.5我們平均關稅是16.6我們去美國是平均5.幾那我們像豬肉進來的關稅是12.5我們給他收12.5現在如果他全部要求我們都領關稅像那個越南像印尼這樣全部領那我們會不會崩盤 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6079.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6086.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
應該是這樣說啦 其實美國跟我們的農產品貿易本來就是互相大家有來有去 譬如說我們的黃小玉大部分都從美國來我們這裡去美國的也有我們的譬如說我們蘭花啦 這裡的花卉 水產品所以本來就是互相在疊疊 啊疊疊的當然是台灣過程當中一定是大家在那 我也要替我們台灣的農業顧 啊他也相當希望他的農產品來台灣民關稅的話 譬如豬肉 牛肉本來就進來很多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6107.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6129.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
那豬肉的話,現在進來的,如果是零關稅,這樣大舉入侵進來到30%的話,我們的豬籠是會崩潰的,你們要怎麼保護,你們有配套嗎?我們特別預算上禮拜通過5000多億,裡面有一部要給農業的,夠不夠?沒有的話它是沒有屋頂的,我們是打開屋頂 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6130.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6142.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
感謝委員支持臺灣的農業當然那是面對全世界的問題我們農業自己要站得住站得好不只是保護我們自己的農業我們也要農業要出口所以感謝我們的特別條例我們臺灣的豬肉一公斤是95塊成本美國進來是差不多60塊如果在12.5%的關稅拿掉剩下50塊不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6154.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6156.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
所以稻米現在美國每年出口320萬噸比台灣出產的還多我們稻米現在一公斤也是50塊那美國進來的才35塊如果要零關稅的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6178.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6190.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
所以我賺20幾塊 30塊我們台灣的稻米跟北海道的稻米一本硬幣要賺就要賺稻米嘛對不對坦白說我昨天站在我們台灣都站不住了站不住啦 站不住要怎麼保護啦站不住啦 站不住啦我們站不住的拜託大家支持啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6194.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6195.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
接下來我們請圖圈級委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6235.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6240.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
好 謝謝主席那先請我們勞動部 黃部長請黃部長 還有我們勞動條件司 黃司長請司長 還有勞動關係司 王司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6250.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6252.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
台豐丹納斯重創嘉義台南電感導斷2000多支台電的員工當然很辛苦 作業不休 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6266.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6291.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
搶休那現在有台電的員工家屬也有反應先生一個多禮拜在外奔波也希望能夠早日回家休息那當然網友聽了也都鼻酸那這段這段時間台電也釋放了很多台電員工在晚間並排用餐的辛勞的照片那當然社會上也引起很大的共勉那當然我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6291.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6305.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
行政院也打蛇髓棍上 說這次的特別條例沒有撥補一千億是愧對台電的員工那但是在昨天七月十六號台灣電力產業工會串聯台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6308.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6332.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
新營區高雄區的企業工會發布聲明說呼籲台電儘速釐清電感導斷的原因也喊話中央拼命工作甚至被工作的時候還有吃飯的時候還要擺拍那他們也說並不是為了讓政府高層拿來做撥補台電遷移政治的大文宣的素材 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6334.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6350.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那針對這部分請問一下我們勞動部那基層台電員工反映被要求工作的時候吃飯的時候要擺拍那其實這應該也是超出他的工作範圍那有沒有違反我們勞動法令或者勞動契約這個跟突然說沒有其實當然我們有看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6358.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6378.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
電力產工那他們這個相關的意見但我們也看到台電的台電公司的工會那也提出了很不一樣的看法所以我想一定要去說這一定是擺拍或者是有沒有違反我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6381.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6405.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
呃我想我們都應該是要站在台電基層工員工的角度來去做思考那給予台電的基層的員工更多的尊重那跟協助好那部長你看一下這是我們網路有流傳他們的截圖喔台電的長官有要求他們在事故搶修拍照的作業流程喔連要橫拍豎拍都有講究那 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6406.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6422.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這一部分我們想了解針對勞動部認為這一部分有沒有強迫勞工做工作以外的事情而且畢竟這是基層工會員工他們反映的我相信台隊員工他有反映出來我相信他們應該是不會說謊 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6426.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6453.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
對不起我沒有看到這個我可能要再看一下這些相關的資料但我還是覺得最重要的原則是對於基層員工的支持跟尊重我覺得這是最重要的事情所以我想請教為什麼希望能夠編列一千億的這個特別預算來去協助其實也是基於這個想法我今天是希望勞動部去了解一下台電裡面有沒有這樣子的事情發生那畢竟你看他把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6454.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6471.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
截圖已經都截出來了你看到台電的長官要求他們要這樣去做然後員工也反映他認為這基本上已經不是他工作範圍的他們已經很辛苦了結果還要在工作的時候吃飯的時候長官還要求他們要去擺拍 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6472.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6487.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那他也已經反映出來我希望勞動部去了解一下有沒有這樣的情形那這樣的情形是不是有違反了這個勞動法令或者勞動契約的部分我想各種勞工的聲音其實我們都會去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6489.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6509 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
還是那個原則希望給員工最多的尊重跟支持包括預算上的支持瞭解一下有沒有這樣的問題如果這樣的情形員工已經反映了是不是有違反勞動契約的問題希望部長們去幫我們瞭解一下我們可以來瞭解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6509.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6537.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
後來這個事情也在發酵那經濟部有發聲明表示說台灣電力工會的會員人數近2.9萬人那涵蓋大概99%的公司同仁才是代表多數同仁意見的工會而台灣電力產業工會僅只有會員百餘人的團體那我請問一下部長那現在中央經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6538.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6544.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
他是最大的慣老闆嗎他百育人的團體他難道不代表員工的聲音嗎我其實不會是這樣看就是各種不同員工的聲音其實都應該看待所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6555.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6573.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
所以你認為經濟部發這個新聞稿對嗎那經濟部說新聞稿說他這個只是百餘人的小團體那就是繼我們之前部長郭志輝嗆台電的員工你看不下可以離開啊那到現在你經濟部還發這個新聞稿說基層員工自發組織的工會是小團體那小團體不用照顧嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6581.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6599.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
跟陀苑說明,我想這個意思應該不是這樣,我自己在看到,我有看到這一篇,但我的理解比較是說其實也應該要重視這個電力工會,尤其是企業的電力工會他們的聲音跟他們的看法,我認為他的意思比較是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6599.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6622.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那我請問一下我們勞動關係是哪些人的意見就不需要重視電力工會的人數也很多那我們也應該要重視所以我覺得經濟部不應該發這個新聞稿說他只是100多人的團體那他不是歧視這100多人嗎對不對你不應該發這新聞稿啊我的解讀是他是說我們應該要重視員工反映他的聲音他居然第一時間說他這是小團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6623.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6641.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我的解讀是他表達的事情是我們應該重視將近三萬的人的企業工會他們的聲音跟看法對啊百餘人也是員工也是勞工啊應該也是要重視怎麼第一時間說他是小工會所以我問一下我們勞動關係師王師長台電基層員工自行發起的組織工會台灣電力產業工會跟我們台電新營區處企業工會台電高雄區處企業工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6651.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6655.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
這些數是合法合規申請成立的正式公會組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6658.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6687.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
任委員報告目前除了台電力工會企業工會是過去長期就是一個大的企業工會然後因為在5月19號我們工會法新細則已經失效了所以到目前為止有一個是台灣電力新營區營業處企業工會有登記剩下的部分目前沒有好那他這有登記就是合法嗎對那有合法那我們經濟部資防這樣子質疑工會那不就是擺明在打壓工會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6688.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6693.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
是不是有構成不當的勞動行為我比較認為他是在重視台灣電力工會的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6700.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6724.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
沒關係部長我今天提出來只是希望針對這部分因為我們勞動部啊應該是要照顧勞工啊我想了解一下那我想了解一下那如果針對這樣子的部分請勞動部幫我們了解一下他這樣子有沒有違反工會第35條的不當勞動的行為到時候了解一下給我們回覆他這樣子有沒有構成 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6725.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6750.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我們當然可以來瞭解一下可是我的意思是說就那篇我有看了可是他的意思是說希望大家去重視台灣電力工會的意見跟想法沒關係啊 部長我們今天提出來因為這也是基層工會他們有提出這個反應他們已經有這個心聲那我是認為說勞動部是主管單位應該去瞭解一下有沒有這樣子的情形然後你認為我們可以來瞭解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6751.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6777.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
對我希望說勞動部來重視啦畢竟他們已經有凸顯這一塊我覺得勞動部主管單位希望這個站在勞工的立場幫我們來瞭解一下勞動部一定是站在勞工的立場我們不會分哪一個工會齁那大工會小工會但我們一定是站在勞工的立場為勞工的利益來捍衛對我是希望經濟部在發這新聞稿的時候要注意啦不能說好像說他這個是大工會那是小工會你感覺你就是歧視小工會小工會也是勞工啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6778.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6783.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
好沒關係部長先幫我們了解一下那請我們衛福部邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6789.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6817.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
好 周部長我們衛福部今年一直推動我們護理人力改革包含今年調薪3%還有我們也編列了擴增公職護理人員的預算但是我們知道錢只是一次性的原因其實制度還有工作環境的改善應該才是最主要的那請問一下針對今年加薪3%我們有實際增加了多少人力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6819.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6840.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那尤其在人力最缺乏的夜班跟急重症的這一塊有沒有獲得改善報委員您是在提部醫院這個部分嗎還是整個護理你調心3%嘛調心3%有沒有效果工時的嘛是有沒有實際的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6842.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6870.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
因為醫院的整個護理人醫護的人力其實要包括全國的啦應該是要包括公司沒關係到時候看一下我想了解一下你們做的這部分對於實際人力上有沒有改善那我們要了解一下我們三班護病比的獎勵全台灣有27家醫院這個獎勵是掛零的那代表什麼說這些醫院他根本沒有請到夜班的護理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6871.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6898.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
好 謝謝委員 隨請這個招募司司長跟報告一下我們現在27家裡面有一家是醫學中心12家是區醫院那其他都是地區醫院那這個醫學中心他的問題是在於他過去是區域然後升到醫學所以他標準增加了那其中有一家區域是從地區醫院進來的所以因為標準增加所以他沒有辦法達到那大部分的這個地區醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6899.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6918.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
很多大概有八九家呢其實是因為他完全沒有通報他的住院人日那也就是說可能他沒有收住病人對那我們看一下27家掛聯然後這個獎勵最多的前五名其實都是醫學中心那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6920.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6947.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
反觀這些獎勵金掛鈴的幾乎都是地區醫院跟區域醫院那最主要大部分都在偏鄉那所以我們擔心這些偏鄉的醫院本來就存在人力短缺的問題那針對這一部分我們有沒有來追蹤這些醫院人力的問題跟委員報告就是地區醫院這個11家裡面就是有8家 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6947.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6951.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
他就是目前我們看起來他都沒有通報他的三班的病人數跟護理人力那他們的護理人員數也都是在20到30之間所以這個我們現在也會再進一步了解他個別的原因是什麼不過從目前的掌握的資料是他可能也沒有收住病人 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6968.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6986.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
對 因為我現在比較擔心因為我自己選區裡面有五間醫院那這裡面只有部桃新屋分院有拿到這個獎勵金那針對這些吊車尾的這些醫院衛福部到底有沒有提供輔導機制來輔導這些偏鄉的醫院目前那個針對個別性的我們針對個別性有在做一個更針對個別性的瞭解然後看看用什麼方法來協助這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6998.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7018.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那還有這些醫院拿了巨額的獎勵金之後我們看衛福部這個平台他們有沒有回報我們怎麼看不到這公開的資料也看不到這獎勵金到底是醫院拿走還是有實質回饋到我們基層的人員身上目前這個獎勵金是在6月19號播出去的那我們的播出去的跟原來的規定就是說醫院要把這個獎勵金呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7028.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7045.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
針對個別醫院的這個缺口做差異性的流論措施的分配那目前各家醫院都有不同的設計也在大概每家醫院我們現在了解是大家醫院應該都已經準備好那個要做的方法了但是接下來他們就會公告在醫院裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7047.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7070.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
因為我們現在比較擔心就是因為我們選區比較偏向都是一些地區醫院小醫院那而且這互併比的比例跟條性3%而且像我們地方沒有這些醫院都是一些診所那他又不適用這些診所所以我們反而擔心這些基層的診所像我的觀音區啊你獎勵金跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7071.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7096.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
跟調薪都是針對醫院反而基層的診所這些都沒有照顧到會不會這些人員反而都跑到醫院去變成我們基層診所這些待遇影響到反而變成他的人力影響更大現在目前那個診所的獎勵健保署有相關的專案在做支持作為他的醫護人力的這個留任 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7097.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7116.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
好 我希望我們來注意一下因為我們現在比較擔心你這樣子的方式變成像我們這些比較偏鄉的基層診所反而缺工會更嚴重所以希望我們衛福部針對這些看有沒有一些輔導機制有沒有一些改善的方法能夠注意到我們偏鄉這些基層診所的人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7117.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7134.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我們觀音鄉那邊的確偏鄉的醫療資源是比較需要加強我們會去了解這些地區醫院他們實際上的狀況那在診所的一個協助方面我們也會全力來協助讓偏鄉的民眾能夠得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7135.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7153.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
對 因為我擔心你這個條性跟獎勵金到時候反而影響基層診所造成他人力更短缺所以這部分希望部長幫我們了解一下我們不同的地區有不同的文化所以我們會去特別做對啊 要多輔導啦不然這些基層診所人力更短缺對於他們醫療資源更匱乏好 謝謝好 謝謝部長好 謝謝圖委員 謝謝部長那繼續我們請賴會員 委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7166.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7170.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
謝謝主席 有請勞動部部長黃部長請部長你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7179.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7208.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我是在這一次丹納斯颱風重創整個南部我是重災區的重災因為本席的11個區域全部全部都是在沒有中央山脈的一個屏障然後在7月6號17級的這個強風直接吹到就是七谷北門還有那個布袋從這樣子登陸上來的時候你知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
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部長在當初就是7月6號7月6號7月6號7月7號的時候我們初步的登記就是說在台電他倒了2454根的電線桿為什麼會倒了這麼多的電線桿其實那是因為風力太大沒有中央山脈的一個屏障還有各種的一個原因造成的 |
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7233.919 |
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7241 |
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那台電出動了多少的一個人力一萬次的一個人力那如果我們要講 |
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7242.768 |
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電力產業工會這個近100人的台電的員工跟我們台電電力工會近3萬人的這個員工的一個工會哪一個講的比較精準我想兩個工會講的都精準部長因為電力產業工會是台南市的區域性的一個工會那台南市的區域性的一個工會其實受創我想他們應該是 |
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7271.454 |
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7286.186 |
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最嚴重最嚴重他們的感受是最深最深的如果這個時候在救災的過程當中還有這麼多的一個口水的話是不應該的當你們看到我們整個整個就是在這幾個區域裡頭 |
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7288.388 |
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7311.753 |
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你在每一個大街小巷看到的就是台電的工程車那個黃色的工程車在大街小巷裡頭 這樣的一個穿梭我們還需要這麼多的口水嗎 實在是不應該啊台電的員工每一個人都是這樣的一個投入啊府長 我覺得沒道理的 說這個沒道理的對一個工夫 三萬人對一個工夫 沒到一百人 |
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7317.202 |
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7343.223 |
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想想看我們的心情啊當我們四天剛性需求停電的時候這些台電的人其實他們也是不眠不休的一個搶休啊你到了晚上兩點的時候你還有看到很多的一個工程車啊不這樣啦 不可以這樣啦我們的辦公室接到電話竟然台南沒有大罷免 |
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7345.124 |
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7359.041 |
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這個停電的 停電的受災婦她卡來怎麼說 她說是不是因為我們不要支持你民進黨的大罷免所以你們不給我們送電開玩笑 台電哪有那種智慧性的一個送電那這樣台電就報死啊 |
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7361.325 |
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7387.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
怎麼會是這樣子跳躍式的呢所以你就知道說這整個狀況有多慘因為到了第四天絕大部分九成還沒有送電那你說台電很笨嗎不是那是受損的面積太大太大了大家沒有在那個地方看到的時候你們沒有辦法感受到這種世界末日那個數字都是折斷了是折斷的 |
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7390.134 |
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7401.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我想所有不管哪一個工會我們都給他加油我們都給他加油吃飯要怎麼樣擺pose我覺得這個這個都是其次的問題啊 |
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7403.5 |
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7423.575 |
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跟各位說明我想從農部的角度其實我們非常知道這一次丹納斯颱風那對於這個我們南部其實造成的這個重創跟損失的狀況那所以我覺得我們真的是現在應該給台電跟台電的基層的員工最大最大的支持 |
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7424.575 |
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7445.354 |
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那在這裡面真的不用有這些不必要的口水或者把它做政治化的標籤我覺得這些真的都不必要那什麼樣能夠給他們最大的支持最大的尊重我覺得現在才是政府跟這個社會最該做的事情沒有錯沒有錯部長加油謝謝那我先請那個農業部那個杜長翅 |
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7450.877 |
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7469.712 |
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長次,這個大量式颱風帶來的一個豪雨,這17級的豪雨已經造成就是整個大台很大的一個災情的損失那短短的一週的那個強降雨,它其實已經高達357毫米就等於是高過整個六月份的降雨量355 |
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7471.613 |
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7492.584 |
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你看喔短短幾天喔那這個災情受損的嚴重要跟你來探討一下就是說農業的一個災情那我們知道就是說農業部到目前為止我們看到的就是說不管在農產還是畜牧還有遺產那總共損失了27億那這個是初步這是初步這個27億裡頭台南有10億多有10億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7498.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7521.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
好 那我簡單的讓你看一下這一個背景今天總統在五天去了兩次那我們看到了就是文旦 文旦受損的情形部長 次長 那個文旦過五十天 就可以收了結果在整個麻豆跟下影的文旦你看現在掉滿地 這個九層 九層幾乎都是掉到地上去了 |
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7523.138 |
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7545.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
為什麼他們會掉這麼多的陳述你知道當然風大雨大還有就是說他其實準備要休息了這個時候他相關的資深什麼其實都跟這個時候真的看起來都要流汗這真的所以你要看農業部如何協助農民相關的損失這個是本席今天要跟你探討的在這個 |
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7549.026 |
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7566.258 |
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農業裡頭的一個毀損毀損還有農業設施裡頭那你大概就是說簡單的跟你討論了幾個問題在整個農業天然災害的一個救助紓困的一個措施我們看到了非常的一個清楚 |
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7567.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7578.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
這個現金的一個救助 天災的一個貸款 還有新增半年免息的一個措施你們有沒有在研議有有有 因為表示說 其實比如你多給我一點時間喔 抱歉我重災重災婦抱歉 |
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7583.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7586.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
現在真的很嚴重 包括譬如說以後我們一年就只收而已嘛所以今年如果沒收什麼 你說要再支付明年的要再一些財政或是一些經費可能會比較困難包括貸款的還款也是有壓力所以這個部分我們來演繹說譬如說還款可以延長免利息的時間也來延長 讓我們可以延長多久 |
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7604.991 |
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7623.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們現在免利期本來就是半年了那是不是有沒有辦法延長到一年因為這個有前例在這個2009年8月的時候到2010年1月的時候其實我們政府就支應了榮保跟國民年金這個是半年 |
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7624.372 |
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可是在2021年3月的時候我們遇到了百年大旱 寒流還有COVID-19的一個沖襲那政府就宣布免貸款免息一年 這個都不是首例啦都不是首例 因為他就沒休息 還要再給他還錢這個事情 心理壓力很大 這我們了解 |
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7664.728 |
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所以希望就是說次長待會去研究還有在整個沿海地帶有很多的一個養殖業現在面臨到一個困境就是說這些養殖業你看死掉的這些沙巴魚還有這些餘溫裡頭的所有的遺產為什麼沒有人撈啊因為這個死的面積太大了 |
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7665.709 |
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那你這麼大的一個面積的時候,你光靠現有的人力光是靠國軍的人力,光靠這個替代役的人力,沒辦法啦那你的機械呢?你的機械是不是應該要進來?你要怎麼樣協助這些人?因為他再來的後面延伸的就是環境的一個汙染 |
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7713.535 |
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環境的一個汙染,那後續怎麼樣來處理所以就是說,市長這個非常重要,不是不可能你前面都已經有那麼多次了啊這要快點清掉啦,一個就是說我也跟青雲業者,我們自己都沒說,可以借到車要說一些文匯上,我們都要到處...我跟你講,如果農業沒有去認定這是農業上的一個損失的話,環境部不知道啦 |
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7715.16 |
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7722.848 |
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環境部不知道啦這個非常清楚我們這十天在地方一直在張羅這些事情所以農業部的一個農損的一個認定還有你的資產的一個認定這個是農業部你們必須要快速去認定的不然你那邊的本首都靠那邊了好 再給我一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7738.463 |
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7760.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
過一段時間 農業的天然救助跟紓困的措施 拜託長治趕快啟動 然後重減 重寬不要造成那麼大的一個民怨尤其就是在整個海域裡頭 沿岸裡頭幾乎都是老弱殘兵 |
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7760.58 |
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7782.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
有啦,所以APP企業這邊很多人有上傳,這第一條,阿第一條我們農金署如果收到,收到資料一、兩天裡面一定報款,因為大家這個地方很要緊那我們知道現金的救助跟天然的一個貸款,這個已經是在運行中了可是我們希望這個免息半年延長到一年,免息半年延長到一年,然後救災基金夠不夠 |
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7784.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7809.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
你的農業救災基金夠不夠 39.6億夠不夠沒夠嘛 一定沒夠沒夠你要動用第二億倍金 你要多少錢啊我們比較快來處理錢的事情沒有 你是有處理還是沒處理有一定要處理 因為絕對沒夠對 所以你要儘快因為動用到第二億倍金 所以你要快謝謝委員支持 在這裡我還特別就是說跟農業部 勞動部 還有衛福部 |
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7811.511 |
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7827.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
怎麼樣去減免災民的健康保險國民年金的費用 外務部部長這個也請你跟我們跨部會的去研擬因為這個都有潛力的 已經有潛力了我們也希望就是說 你們可以比照辦理 |
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7828.622 |
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7850.639 |
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很艱苦的然後還有就是災民的醫療那個災民的醫療還有安置還有照顧的一個措施那我們知道就是整個災後的一週登革熱是最嚴重的這也是一個關鍵我不知道衛福部有沒有啟動什麼樣的一個措施協助那個民眾的一個預防 |
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7852.423 |
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7879.543 |
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我們在第一時間已經整個去了解到整個運轉的情況剛剛有報告那至於受災的醫療院所我們也去盤整在健保的一個提供方面會給他比較合理的一個處理來幫助他運轉我們知道你的那個慰問金已經有出來的嘛死亡嘛還有失蹤的是20萬嘛重傷的是5萬嘛有關於預防登革後疾患史來啟動的相關的一個策略 |
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7880.023 |
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7906.492 |
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部長 我要說 你的考驗來了喔這個風災過後 那個是滿個屋子都是蚊子在揮喔這個況且有很多龍損到現在是沒有辦法處理的喔這個整個環境是非常糟糕非常糟糕的你要加強地方政府衛生局的一個消毒要支援它 好不好是 全力以赴 全力以赴 全力以赴好 謝謝主席好 謝謝 謝謝內委員苦民所苦 謝謝部長 |
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7909.817 |
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7911.018 |
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主席好 我先請我們洪森漢部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7933.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7954.284 |
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邱院長部長好那我想請問一下這次台電員工搶修電力設備這個設施遭受電擊的公安這個職災的事件你們職安署南區職安中心昨天有去現場做這個勞檢發現現場個人防護具確實沒有使用沒有戴絕緣手套所以遭電擊是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7957.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7979.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
跟委員報告這個案子我們南區中心接獲報告以後有去釐清整個災害發生的原因那初步來看的話在台電公司平常在做這樣的一個維修作業或這個修復作業基本上它有完整的一個SOP但是因為在這次的一個緊急搶救的時候可能在聯繫協調的問題造成這個我們這個離災勞工他誤以為這條線是已經斷電了 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7986.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8011.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
所以他沒有配戴這個防護手套所以這樣子聽起來是誰的責任基本上在治安法上面就是因為你們昨天的報告你們昨天的報告是說聽起來很好聽但是就是說一套看起來很客觀很溫和的話術來暗示的是勞工自己沒做好防護我覺得這個對於我們的基層的這個台電員工這個不太公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8012.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8023.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那當然我們沒有認為是歸咎於勞工個人的問題那這樣最好 當然啦我們這次是發生了所以發生了我們當然現在是解決問題當然我覺得對受傷這個台電員工我們要更加的這個先照顧人家還在醫院那這個時候當然我覺得剛剛你講對了那個潰線他為什麼會有電那條線為什麼沒有斷電有去查了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8044.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8062.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
跟委員報告初步了解原因是這樣那細部我們還要繼續做職業障礙的調查那什麼時候才能夠出來你現在不出來因為南部現在幾乎還在搶救對不對所以你這個原因不找出來那未來是不是還是不能保證不會發生這樣的事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8065.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8092.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那個邱委員當然我們都希望不過的確現在很多的部分還在還在調查中但是我想還是很清楚我們希望台電在這個當然替我們這麼多的南部的災民盡快的來救災這部分我們很謝謝可是也希望台電也要同時也能夠把這個作業的安全給做好我想這這個是南部現在很清楚的立場是不是因為我在想是不是因為台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8093.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8105.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
他因為要搶著給我們這些民眾用電所以這個狀況造成了今天這個結果沒有做好一個SOP的一個流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8106.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8131.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我想現在當然台電跟台電的員工們現在當然很著急著想要完成來協助我們災民這個恢復原本生活的這樣的人我覺得他們這個心是很著急的我知道因為大家受災戶這些他們當然很著急當然我知道台電也很認真可是我覺得在做這個事情的時候我們該做的防護該做的一定的這個流程還是要做不能因為急著 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8132.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8153.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
要幫這個我們這個受災戶復電然後用我們台電員工的這個生命去來換電這個是非常非常不得是當然我們希望能夠兼顧近早的復電我想這是全民的希望包括南部我們災民的希望但也希望台電同時要把這個作業安全給兼顧給做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8155.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8171.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
還有一點我要提醒就是說這些台電員工或者是外包員工連續搶修這麼多天在這個搶修期間是不是出現工時嚴重超標的問題是這個最長工時是多少我希望你們勞檢局你去查了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8171.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8193.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我想我們有來查其實就是他其實會有一個因為天災等等的原因所以會突發狀況所以這個會需要做相關的通報那就我們目前去去查查台電公司是有針對我們的地方政府有來做通報好啦我希望大家同理心好不好那請部長休息我們請這個邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8198.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8222.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
委員好部長好總統府有健康台灣推動委員會的副召集人陳志宏教授在衡量醫療體系氣候韌性的推薦序就說了台灣的醫療體系在面對極端氣候的時候有很多先天體質不良的問題包括第一個急救跟慢性疾病照顧很容易中斷病人要去醫院要轉診 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8224.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8247.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
碰到災難他就會直接卡死那第二個資源調度不容易尤其是偏鄉根本等不到人也等不到設備像疫苗血液這些冷鏈保存的物資一旦斷電物流停擺就會立刻出現問題那第四個最嚴重的是人力我們的醫護早就過勞了還要在災後連續上陣根本撐不久 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8248.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8274.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這就讓我不得不再問一次我們賴清德總統在2023年選舉期間明明公開承認兩年內要完成三班護病筆這個入法但是你們您在7月14日接受訪問的時候說醫院人力還不夠先入法會引起不一樣的做法所以我們慢慢鼓勵慢慢努力所以我想請部長我要你講清楚這兩年內的承諾會實施嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8278.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8290.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
謝謝委員的推行,指出我們台灣醫療體系有很多困境,也感謝委員一直關心怎麼樣來改善這個部分,所以為什麼會推動健康台灣這樣的一個計畫? |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8297.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8319.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
裡面一個很重要的就是我們增加賦予的人力其中一個就是三班互併比的一個鼓勵我們現在的制度是鼓勵先行隨著在標竿學習在華字化不然我還是不要繞那麼遠我就問一句嘛那兩年內有辦法做到嗎因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8323.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8347.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
跟委員報告,這個因為要牽涉到我們,要人力夠如果是你的兩年內是從什麼時候算?明年的520能做到嗎?對,我們總統已經指出一個政策的方向我聽你講,你也不敢保證明年的520以前會入法,對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8350.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8372.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
因為議院還是要讓他慢慢的那總統說的兩年內他是認真的還是隨便講講來騙選票用的這個政策是非常重要的一個方向我們也全力以赴我知道你們都在努力啦可是我問的時候我要問的是這句話有沒有兌現的一個機制比如說時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8374.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8394.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
進度,你們有自己給定自己一個標準嗎?一個時程嗎?因為我們要定標準是比較容易,但是要如何讓它真的順利來進行,不影響到人民照顧的一個健康的權利,包括很多噴箱,今天圖前級委員也提到,看到很多噴箱,兩年內要入法, |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8397.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8425.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那如果做不到這樣壓時間隨便承諾還是您認為總統的政見不重要我們一定一步一步的往總統的政見來落實來實現但是他講兩年啊你有辦法做到嗎這個時間上我們會把它做得更周延因為如果只是鼓勵沒有進度這就不叫政見一定有進度現在是基層護理師他希望有一個答案那你不敢正面回答他們不敢回答那兩年內三班護病比入法做得到還是做不到我就知道這個嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8429.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8447.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我們會努力啊 而且是真的一直在努力從現在的鼓勵剛剛也有報告過了那現在有進度嗎 我先講 你有進度嗎比如說我們經過這陣子的努力 我們的醫學中心可以到達六成已經達到三萬戶論比你剛剛講的是 你是發用獎勵的方式嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8453.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8479.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那這個獎勵方式就是讓醫院你發了5.47億這個獎勵金沒有錯但入法進度這個幾乎是零我知道衛福部花了很多的心力那推出這個獎勵機制鼓勵醫院改善排班但是一個很核心的問題如果今天獎金可以取代入法那當初我們就不應該這個要講說這個兩年內要入法那我知道這一次有363家醫院拿到三班護病費的獎勵金 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8481.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8510.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
但這個獎勵金的門檻有兩班達標就可以領我知道你們的規定是這樣那所以我想了解過去一年裡三班都達標的護病比等於是完整達標的醫院有幾家三班不是兩班這個請市長回答一下我們有三個層級那這個醫學中心醫學中心大概可以達到五層以上那區醫院大概是 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8512.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8534.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
35%到45%之間那地區醫院的話大概可以85%到90%之間可以達到好那另外有27家沒有領到我看了一下其中有5家是我們不立院這是不是代表我們直接在管理的不立院我們都沒有辦法來配合你們有去了解這個原因嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8535.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8558.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
有,那部立院因為他比較有特別的任務,包括社區各方面的人力所以他的護理人力會比較需要配合社區整個國家的政策所以他在達標上會比較辛苦一點,但是這個我們都會給予支持來 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8559.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8579.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
因為我還要再問一個就是說你這些獎勵發下去之後我剛剛有聽到你說讓各醫院自己去調配去發放那我更關心的是我們護理留言到底有沒有領到這個獎金他們到底領到了多少他們領到現在直接領到的當然就是月班獎獎勵金你確定他們都拿到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8581.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8609.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這個沒有問題 這個如果沒有拿到就這個絕對沒有問題不要變成口號啦因為這個問題其實是非常嚴重的我們台灣的現在的狀況 醫療狀況真的真的是非常緊急隨時都可能爆掉那我們不希望我們希望好這個護理人員能夠好好留下來工作那給他們一個更好的一個待遇這個我覺得衛福部要趕快來想辦法我們有十二個措施一直在改善這樣的一個對 我還是要那句話我希望部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8611.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8615.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
剛剛講的 路法你的任內會不會 我們賴總統的任內會不會完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8617.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8645.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
你直接給我答案就好我想應該可以法制化可以嗎?會達到法制化你能答應嗎?你能保證嗎?我們會全力以赴好謝謝最後一個我再問一下我們賴清德總統說要打造健康台灣結果現在充滿漏洞的實驗地域先蓋好這個地域就是你們每一個部會親手施工集體完成的成果那台大女這個女卒台視大女卒被強迫抽血做研究那 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8646.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8661.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我們衛福部指出教育部要依法辦理那我覺得很奇怪就是人體研究法的機關不是在衛福部嗎你們林靜儀次長又在臉書撇清衛福部責任你們都是醫生你看不出來這搓血行為是有問題的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8662.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8679.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我想這個部分早上也有報告跟大家報告過第一個就是說如果以人體研究法那當然是衛護部的那個主管那至於人體研究的一個就是他的監督、實行或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8680.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8696.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
可是他這樣不是就違反你們的規定嗎是由研究機構的事業主管機關所以學術機關你是不管的他們要怎麼玩都可以啊我們是尊重事業主管機關去做調查那你立這個法是幹什麼呢我們這個法就是製造一個就是來 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8698.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8721.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那個法然後我們讓定了相關的規定然後讓世衛主管機關他們去執行我們院長都說話 衛福部要負該負的責任那你覺得衛福部接下來要做什麼好 我們第一個我們當然學生的人權跟社教權保護這是絕對不容模糊的第二個我們當務之急就是趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8723.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8733.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
把學生的受教权能夠看看能不能保護第二個就是他們的身心狀況我們也啟動了心理健康方面的系統那台灣現在到底還有多少這種人體實驗呢人體實驗是沒有在醫療場所進行的有幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8741.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8762.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這個可能要去了解一下對我覺得部長這是你的職務這是你的業務範圍所以我覺得你應該要全權掌握吧因為這樣的實驗會觸犯的法律包含我唸給你聽醫師法、護理人員法、人體研究法、感染管制相關法規、傳染病防治這些都是衛福部主管的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8763.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8788.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
所以不要把這個事情都推給教育部我們現在是主持人他有沒有按照當時你去嚴格執行如果有牽涉到相關的法令我們當然一定嚴格執行好 謝謝部長好 謝謝邱委員 謝謝部長那接下來我們請林淑恩委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8799.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8806.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
謝謝主席 主席你剛剛講了14分鐘好 謝謝 我請邱部長部長 今天大家質詢很多台師大女足球隊的這個被教練周台英這樣強迫抽血不得退出的這一些這個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8827.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8847.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
第一時間台師大可能違反研究倫理的這個案子你們的林靜儀次長很厲害馬上說這件事件的主角應該負責的是教育部不是衛福部依照人體研究法的確是這樣子沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8848.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8871.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
然後接下來呢次長又說他個人的意見是說要關注利害關係權利不對等的狀況是非常重要的所以要特別注意這個倫理這樣子受試者應該要有明確的知情同意權不可以在被脅迫的狀況下為之而且要隨時退出了權利好 話講得這麼好聽然後這樣講了以後好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8873.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8876.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我就覺得說難道衛福部完全都沒有任何一丁點需要檢討的地方嗎這個事情完全跟衛福部都沒有關係嗎今天聽了一個早上你們的劉悅平司長 喔很難聽 今天終於來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8892.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8895.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
劉月平司長今天有講他的論述更簡單他說這個事情都應該要照研究計畫的主持的目的事業主管機關就是教育部他們有審查了IRB那要看這個研究人員有沒有遵守 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8913.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8932.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
他們應該遵循的法尊是像IRB計畫有沒有遵守這樣在執行然後第二個 劉業平馬上說這個IRB計畫不是你們審的那內容你們也不知道所以也不知道他們有沒有遵守是吧 大概你們就這樣講 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8934.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8941.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
整齊都這樣說啊 意思是說跟衛福部都沒關係啦是台師大的問題啦 跟教育部的問題啦事實是不是這樣 保庭你說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8946.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8959.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
好 謝謝委員的催省我想任何民眾有受到健康上的一個威脅你不要避重就輕 你知道嗎你今天在這裡 你們所值的理由就是說這個IRB不是你們審美主管機關是教育部這個研究界外的IRB內容你們不知道 對嘛 對嘛 是不是我們都一切依法辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8975.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8983.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
很好我現在就是要跟你講依法辦理的事情我今天要再跟你講今天國科會副主委出來講了一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8984.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9013.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
國科會副主委說全台灣一百多個大學裡面而體育學門有申請人體試驗的計畫數台師大遠遠超過其他學校的總和國科會的人體試驗的補助計畫台師大萊爾申請了占了所有補助計畫裡面的六成以上這是一個非常不尋常的事情或許這是一個全面性在體育學門長期以來存在的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9014.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9016.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
OK 這事情有嚴重嗎 有啊 為什麼這麼嚴重誰讓這些學生要透過學分這樣威脅 畢業威脅讓他們沒有執行同意 不能行使退出權誰讓這些孩子哭 而只是這幾個孩子在哭嗎今天不是只有這些學生耶你看這很嚴重的可是我要問你一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9043.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9051.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
教育部在審查IRB的時候他們會知道他們會有足夠的專業去知道說IRB委員要聘請哪一些領域嗎他們會知道每天抽血三次連續抽血14天而這樣子的抽血行為對被抽血人的健康風險會有什麼樣的影響嗎教育部會有這個專業嗎教育部會有這個能力嗎你有給他任何行政指導嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9072.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9079.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
你們衛福部不但沒有給他們任何行政指導我現在要講衛福部就是你所謂的依法行政裡面讓教育部讓台師大讓這些孩子這樣子在脅迫的狀況下恐懼的狀況下在那裡哭不得已才跑出來陳情讓他們哭的始作俑者我告訴你就是你們衛福部看這個公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9103.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9104.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
看這個公文來護理人員法解釋會編 108年好 那看你們的行政函式誰允許教育部來抽血 不需要專業的人力然後誰認為這個不是輔助醫療行為非侵入性 即便侵入性也沒關係是你們衛福部 101年因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9133.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9148.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
人體研究法通過以後大量的人體研究然後大家講說誰可以執行抽血的動作大家就寫公文來問你衛福部衛福部告訴大家你們不要假裝你不知道啦這個事情你們都知道啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9149.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9170.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
衛福部人家所詢學校護理人員如果是由學校護理人員受託協助校內研究計畫進行人體抽血採樣他的釋法性應該是什麼最後一個所以你們說衛福部說研究計畫進行人體抽血抽樣非屬醫療行為也不是醫療輔助行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9175.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9197.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
讓他們可以亂找人有人來抽血抽到手發抖的不是校戶連不是校戶連叔叔伯伯阿姨是誰來抽血這些孩子都不知道抽到很痛在那裡哭一天抽三次連續抽14天讓孩子暴露在風險之下的就是這一張公文函式 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9199.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9227.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這一張公文好像是有講說至學校護理人員 如果是學校護理人員系授託協助校內研究計畫進行人體抽血採樣上街計畫應經人體研究法相關規定審查通過 使得為之OK看起來是什麼意思 不知道欸 不知道欸他是說校務可以抽 要放到計畫裡面審查通過就可以問題是 你這張函是憑啥這樣子說 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9229.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9254.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
你的外服部的這一張公文等於是法規了命令了他有法律未接法律效力你們今天一直講依法依法你們幫助台師大逃避法律的規範就是你們這一張函式不要再多說了你們的你們都很清楚醫事司司長自己也很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9255.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9259.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
你們今天在這裡為七成這麼多 你不敢說的就是因為你副師長講了 副師長受訪 劉玉京說研究中的抽血並不是醫療行為 也不是醫療輔助行為但因攸關受試者保護 必須要由校護或醫檢師執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9277.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9300.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
144就是根據這一張函式來的啦好 這個函式的進解是這樣子我現在就講說 奇怪了這個函式合法嗎?這個函式合理嗎?這個函式最大的問題就是對於涉及需要抽血的研究計畫進行抽血的人是沒有任何資格條件的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9301.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9305.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
而且是完全沒有規定的只要IRB計畫審查通過就可以了因為人家來問你說校戶可不可以抽你們說只要放在計畫裡面有就可以了那你們沒有說校戶以外的人不能抽事實上有你們就是說不是醫療行為不是醫療輔助行為每個人都可以來執行抽血的任務你校戶要來抽的話放在計畫裡面通過就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9328.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9352.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
大貓阿狗來抽也可以放到IRB計劃裡面通過就可以了你們憑什麼這麼說 憑什麼市長來 你來講 伯弟你來 你來講你們憑什麼把這一張公文的函式 法律的依據在哪裡讓你可以允許讓這些孩子這樣子讓這些人暴露在健康的風險之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9353.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9361.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
憑什麼連續一天抽三次 連續十四天有風險的行為你們讓它合法化 憑什麼來 學長阿姨就可以抽 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9366.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9394.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我先講一下第一件事情校護是護理人員也就是醫事人員我不講我不講校護了我現在你的這張函式是阿貓阿狗學長阿姨通通可以來抽沒有我覺得這是對於法令這邊我們在講的是本來人體研究法裡面的IRB就會進行受試者保護所以所有的東西必須程序這邊IRB這邊的在審查每一個計劃案的時候就應該就這個地方來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9396.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9415.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我們人體研究法你們不需要訂出任何的行政指引給要做研究因為你把所有研究計畫的把關機制都交給要做研究的那個計畫的主持人的他的目的事業主管機關去核定去管理去監督IRB也交給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9418.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9423.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
你們衛福部在人體研究法讓你們當主管機關之後你不用訂出任何的遵循的行政指導嗎你不用訂出任何的執法嗎來讓教育部搞不好還有體育部未來的體育部搞不好還有國科位 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9437.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9457.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
搞不好其他的農業部也可以來提研究計畫你認為他們有足夠的專業他們知道IRB要聘請哪種委員嗎你們外服部作為人體研究法的主管機關難道不用訂出相關的行政指導給這一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9458.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9468.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
目的事業主管機關嗎?你剛才說的都不符合裡面你們怠惰了這麼久,從一百二零一一年是吧,完成立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9470.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9499.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
2011年完成立法到現在都沒有做出任何行政指導放任放任這一些目的世界主管機關不知道把關的住把關不住隨便你到這一次事件爆發才知道衛福部不但是這麼的瀆職而且台師大案件凸顯了這一個101年你們含釋的不合理且沒有辦法保護受試者權益的缺陷 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9500.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9525.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這個事件凸顯了你們怠乎職責然後你們的韓式不但沒有保護到這些受試者的權益而且還推他們入火坑所以你們難道不應該針對執行人體研究特別是收案地點不是在醫療院所的研究涉及到抽血的行為人員的資格框定做出清楚明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9526.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9554.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
而且要符合受試者權益保障的任何規範來給目的事業主管機關當指導嗎而且基於衛福部作為人體研究法規的主管機關三讀以後當時學校啦其他部會啦其他研究機構啦他們的研究案例不像現在這麼多所以經過了十幾年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9555.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9572.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
你們還繼續拿舊的韓式出來舊地合法化台師大這一個根本就是聽不下去合法不合情也不合理的合理的舊的韓式法規啦但不合情也不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9574.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9601.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
的這種狀況 你們難道不用再檢討嗎還是像你們次長講的第一時間先甩鍋給教育部跟監察院不是我 我沒有 不關我的事跟衛福部無關就是台師大的這個案例才反映了你們這個含釋才了解到衛福部是今天讓這麼多孩子在你們那裡哭 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9603.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9614.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
然後才是今天這一種不違反倫理的假倫理的規範的這種研究案啦可以繼續在那裡執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9616.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9636.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
今天受試者參與研究是醫學研究進步的關鍵所有的受試者都應該在要知情同意的前提之下而且要理解自己參與研究的內容和權益今天還有你們的責任喔 還有一個喔他不准他退出他不准人家退出 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9643.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9650.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
然後用受教權人權被威脅這個你們不用訂出任何的規範嗎所有的研究計畫都要他們都送一個知情同意書出來被迫了那他要檢舉要去哪裡檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9669.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9695.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
本來在計畫裡面都有所以我們會強調被迫了要去哪裡檢舉當他們被脅迫不能畢業會怕他要去檢舉這個其實回到檢舉機制在哪裡他敢向學校檢舉嗎本來就可以本來就可以要去哪裡然後連記者去年就幫他們開記者會還是六個月前就幫他們開記者會連立委都幫他們開過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9696.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9700.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
你們有看到嗎立委開記者會的時候已經表示他們是被脅迫的為什麼你們沒有主動關心當他說我人體研究計畫我被強迫抽血我用畢業學分被威脅而曝光了立委也在立法院質詢也開記者會了 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9717.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9724.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
已經好幾個月以前了不是現在這一波請問你衛福部為什麼沒有作為請問你劉岳平司長都視若無睹很難受的劉司長要來立法院這裡被刑很難受的 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9735.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9751.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
視若無睹捏這樣要怎麼做 保證你怎麼視若無睹 你做保證多久啊他開記者會的時候 立委這個爆料的時候 質詢的時候 教育委員會的委員爆料開記者會的時候 你們做了什麼事 你們做了什麼事那時候已經違反人體研究法所有的規範了 你做了什麼事 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9758.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9770.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
包委員 這個要調查是要去調查我們計劃組織有沒有按照IRB對 那你調查了嗎從第一次曝光開記者會曝光到現在你剛才劉悅平還在講這個IRB內容你們不知道要去調查已經經過半年了 你現在還要去調查你們有動於衝啦不當一回事啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9783.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9790.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
你們就是不當一回事 無動於衷那你告訴我那你告訴我那你告訴我他們的IRB內容審查有沒有問題他們內容說什麼然後他們開記者會 叫立委開記者會說他們被強迫 他們要退出 他們被威脅你們又做了什麼你們做了什麼 這半年多來你們做了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9809.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9833.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
第一件事情因為教育部已經開始做處理所以我們才會是說那這樣子的話應該是等教育部給我們他的報告然後整體的機制來做一期的檢討現在就是層層掩護 層層的壓下來而才會有這一第二波的爆料和第二波的記者會 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9835.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9853.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
你還在講說第一波的時候教育部已經調查了所以你們就不管了你現在是在說笑的你在說笑的柏定你什麼時候再完成你們這一張不合理的韓式的漏洞的重新檢討柏定這一個韓式到現在還可以適用嗎還適當嗎第一個我們馬上來處理那個所有發生的問題韓式我要講制度面這個韓式我們馬上 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9866.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9871.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
好 很好 那你們需不需要訂出更多的行政指導給其他的目的事業主管機關你們要不要再去重新的檢討檢視你們人體研究法有沒有更多其實是需要衛福部訂出來的法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9889.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9902.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
對 其他目的事業主管機關在做監督在做IRB審查的時候他們可以有所依循你們是不是應該要主動做更多啊有沒有檢討空間有 一定有檢討空間因為事情已經發生表示說我們所有的相關的單位都應該要盡責任的去把它改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9912.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9917.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
不要再有下一次的發生我看你們劉月餅好像就覺得不當一回事還很想變啦我現在講說善意的為醫學或為科學進步去貢獻自己的受試者不應該在醫院參與研究有合格的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9934.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9952.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
醫療人員抽血而在醫院和在社區參與研究卻有任由沒有受過訓練還邊抽血邊發抖的這一些人來抽這不是回報善意而且熱心參與研究的受試者該得到的對待當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9954.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9968.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我很熱心的我很善意的我要回饋我們的醫學研究了那我去醫院抽我就有合格的人幫我抽而我到醫院醫療院所以外的你們就容許他讓這種阿貓阿狗邊抽血邊發抖的人來幫他們抽 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9972.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9997.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
這是不應該的 這不是回報這一些善意的人要參與研究 願意參與研究的人該有的這個回饋是的 是的 我們如果一定會協助去調查如果有違反IRB的 該設的究責的一定是MV的究責而且我們一定會檢討整個制度怎麼樣把它改善得更好對 還有很多制度面是你們應該要扛起來 要做更多沒問題 我們應該要負這個責任 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10000.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10019.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
好,謝謝林淑文委員,謝謝部長你習慣了嗎?不好意思但是你不要改正了,最重要沒有沒有,這個應該要有專業證照的醫療人員才可以啦應該啦,這樣是不對的啦好,我們請陳冠廷你好,我們請農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10034.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10051.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
是委員好市長好昨天有跟你談到關稅的部分今天先談救災然後我們再補充首先就是這一次我們是全品項這一次風災我們是全品項是嘉義台南都全品項對全品項但是有一些特殊品項的養殖業他們對於這些全品項的一些細部內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10051.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10079.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
可能不是認為說他們有沒有包含在裡面那都還會有一些問題所以這方面我們希望請農業部能夠先帶回去知道這件事情那我們其實辦公室已經有先跟農業部的專員先討論過了有一些比較特殊的品項羅類或者是少見的這些品項也是有實用性的那這個部分我們希望儘快有一個回應一般的縣府科長他們回應的時候也不太確定所以農業部可能要有一個比較清楚的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10081.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10107.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
然後第二個部分就是這一次像是包含香蕉美工請示救助是八萬元那這是用一般災損去估算的可是我必須要強調這過去十年來這十年來其實沒有什麼大大的變化可是物價已經有很大的變化也就是說這一次強風帶來毀滅性的破壞他們還是用一樣的這種方式去補償的話我覺得可能沒有辦法讓他們能夠去重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10107.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10120.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那一些交農來反映其實過去不管你說肥料啊成本啊資材啊已經至少是百分之一百五十跟過去幾年比較起來所以我是希望說可不可以在現行的額度之上針對當下是颱風啟動一次性的專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10124.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10146.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
災損的加成補助 專案加損的加成補助這個部分我希望可以帶回去來檢討因為除了我剛才提到說過去的這些成本在提高之外這十年來的成本在提高之外還有一些廢棄物的親民用還有一些物價等等這些都必須要納入考量這是第二點那第三點就是也請農業部來檢討一下就是多年生的高經濟作物 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10147.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10175.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我們剛才提到香蕉或者是其他的或者是蔬菜葉類等等那些跟這種我們剛提到包含咖啡 茶或者是荔枝 龍眼 樹葡萄等作物他們的概念是不一樣的現在每公頃針對那些是5萬5到6萬2000元不同的標準可是我希望這種補助可以反映在多年生的這個木本作物的真實災損這不是補助 這是救助因為這是特別的救助我們還是希望能夠來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10177.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10201.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
有些是七年成素 十年成果那這次它是攔腰有些是攔腰 攔腰或許還有機會有些是整個年根拔起那等於是全面性的這十年都沒有辦法再去生產那這個問題我們去各個鄉鎮重番 鹿鄉 梅山鄉 中埔等等這個還是新港等等都有類似這樣子的問題出現所以再麻煩次長這個也能夠帶回去講 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10204.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10225.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
因為未來性持續性的損失這不是一次的那之前部長來我們加一的時候也有提到說因為連續兩年的災損那現在可能會有尼龍草那為了避免這些尼龍草我剛才提到的從這個一般的這些果物這些果實作物到我們剛才提到的多年生的木本這些作物如果我們不給它一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10226.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10240.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
最基本的救助的話我相信這個離農草是會出現的所以我還是要拜託農業部來盡快來去做這些類似的認定那再來就是關於災後貸款抱歉我今天要講比較快一點要再一次請那個次長來統一的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10242.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10264.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
災後的貸款包含六個月的免息我認為利益很好可是我們很多受災的農民他是在災前為了響應政府的政策來提升競爭力像是有時申請了像是輔導農糧這個經營貸款增生網市或者是申請農機貸款來去購買設備可是這些溫室農機等生產的這些工具在一夜之間基本上都成了廢田 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10265.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10292.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
所以這個時候還是零收入但是還是要繼續來去償還這些既有貸款的利息所以這個部分政策型的這個相信災前已經申請的各種政策型的貸款是不是能夠比照災後貸款給至少半年的利息減免或者是還繳所以我知道這兩個貸款體系不同但是這是特例我們希望專案來處理可不可以至少給我們簡短的一些回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10292.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10306.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
好 簡單三點回應就從最後面來看因為其實現在農損有損失很珠是它救的錢它不會 等一下你要再繳款不管是利息或是本金都有壓力所以我們現在正在研究說不管是到幾種會合作會 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10308.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10333.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
現前借的 現在新借的我們都一致的把它拉長延緩或是免稅期限這樣對農民來說不太會撐開不然是很嚴重第二點就是因為他現在就是沒收入那沒收入怎麼辦呢在中間這一段的專案補助這個我們也會來想辦法特別是長年生的他現時是正年不在他今年沒到收成每年也不知道什麼時候所以這段專案性的我們也會來處理那第三點就是委員第一個提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10333.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10347.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
現在最要緊的 協助農民趕快來親援也好 復援也好 跟他在現場做好可以讓他安心 這是第一要緊所以包括在那個 親運啦 協助這個 要協助我們的現場的人去做什麼 補助啦 有料啦 水電啦 這我們都會來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10351.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10358.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
對 我最開始的問題是說一些像是一些香蕉這種大規模的作物就是有工期現在是8萬其實是跟10年前差不多一樣我們專案來處理專案來處理就這一個專案好不好 先專案我們先救急好 謝謝謝謝委員支持謝謝陳委員 謝謝市長來 繼續我們請劉建國召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10382.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10383.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
謝主席 有請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10385.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10413.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
部長今天召委的專題報告是這個前半段是因為嚴重災情緊急這個重大事件醫療院所承擔的這個救護量人的困境還有包含這近年來我們台灣人民很關心的這個議題就是如果台灣發生緊急狀況時不論要醫材或是這個專業人力到底夠不夠那部長先看這個表格這是近五年的護理人員的總職業率 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10414.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10440.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我們是在下降中這109是63.26然後113是62.7也就109年的時候爆發的那個公民奶艇然後整個疫情延燒三年之久當時醫護人力就已經是短缺的一個狀況那現在如果又遇到緊急狀況我們到底有沒有足夠的這個醫護人力因為當時很多縣市有發出這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10441.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10450.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
退職醫務召集令然後召集退職的醫務人員回到現場支援像快篩站、社區篩檢站等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10451.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10478.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那我們在回憶過去的時候在新冠這段期間臨時靠這樣做法徵召來了這個退職的護理人員當時是非常緊急又很臨時所以如果台灣又面臨到這樣一個狀況再發生我們需要這些退職的醫護人員回到這個第一線的時候來做服務我們是不是有整體的規劃好的一個SOP可供來做執行也保障這些退職然後再成為職場的醫護人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10480.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10505.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
配合政府做一些減息應備的這些狀況有嗎有 好 包括劉少偉兩個問題回答第一個就是在護理人員的成長今年我們在我們的努力政府的努力之下有62.7變成63所以有增加了3000多左右3500多的護理人員力從去年同期但這中間有1700多是所以又回到63點多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10507.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10525.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
第二個就是非常感謝趙偉提醒到這個退職醫護召集令這件事情那當時在疫情期間的確我們召組了護理臺灣隊那當時有一千一萬五百個人報名當然很多其實都是自公性質的,就說我已經在對你服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10528.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10552.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那我願意來投入,譬如說幫你打針、幫你做篩檢等等的那其中其實裡面有25%,真正是25%是沒有職業的啦其他還是有工作,就像我有時候去診所你們為什麼台北市醫生說一副這樣好,你為什麼沒有來召集我,我願意去篩檢所以當時真的醫護都很願意來投入,這是一股很好的力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10553.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10581.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
所以為了維護這樣的社會利益本部在我們衛福部有建立一個互助醫平臺這裡面有超過十二萬個護理人員註冊在這裡那我們也給他繼續的教育那也擴大這個平臺所以委員所隨行的這件事情我們是一直繼續在做而且將來應該不管是在平時或者是有特別狀況的時候我覺得都應該啟動這些人力來幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10584.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10607.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
部長講的就是當時應變這個狀況基本上我們也感受到溫暖也感受到衛福部加了一個召集大家都願意從75%的可能在其他比較不是很嚴重的地方的職業的游人員他也願意過來接受政府的調動來做支持另外25%他是已經沒有在職業中的他也願意再回來這個比例應該有點少75%對25% |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10612.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10634.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這可能你們要再了解一下啦當然不用在這邊再回答我這個問題那第二個我還是必須講不管這個75%從北地方過來支援還是25%已經沒有支援一段時間的他又要受到政府這樣的趕招又要再投入這樣一個緊急的應變狀況那我們都應該鼓勵跟應該肯定但是相對的他的安全的保障政府也必須要給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10635.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10641.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
有訂出這樣的SOP嗎?相關的所有要點嗎?相關的勞動條件的這個保障這個基本勞動的這個保障然後另外一個就是假設他做什麼工作之前我們都確定他有經過教育訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10656.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10662.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
都有還有職業職業你都會先做我先跟委員說一下就是說你剛才提的是這個COVID的時間我們做了一個護理臺灣隊那當時護理人員確實展現了他的社會力那我們希望這件事情可以持續所以我們就在設立一個叫做護理社群平臺 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10677.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10693.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那事實上護理人員是這樣假設我們的統計是這樣那如果離開醫院兩年後你讓他再回到醫院等於不可能所以不是只是退休的人而是說假設他要離職或退休的人我們怎麼讓他維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10695.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10701.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
維持在這個人才庫裡面這是重點你們75%跟25%就被你這樣的趕招來投入、分配、支援各個地區的醫療的系統裡面那他回來的之前他應該要多少時間來做一個培訓或是怎麼樣我們就以任務導向譬如說當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10719.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10723.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
要做這個疫苗注射隊那我們就會開始招募各家醫院他的需求是什麼然後我們就會開始辦訓練然後做媒合這個時間那每個人就會填說他的時間是可以的時間是什麼那我們確定他有經過訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10735.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10744.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
然後到哪裡去集合然後到哪裡去做報導所以妳要對我表達就是說沒有一個統一的一個時間啦是不是沒有的時間沒有嘛但是妳的培訓的時間應該是一致啊妳要沒有醫院那個會有時間的落差我很清楚嘛我是在請教妳培訓的時間嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10753.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10771.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
在那個之前我們就啟動那個培訓對啦 時間啦一天、兩天、三天、一天、四天、三天、八天、七天、八天培訓就有看疫苗注射嘛那一個是那個檢查就看他的任務有一個是居家隔離的時候的那個關卡那你可以直接有當跟我的會報告嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10772.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10794.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
那注射的事要培訓多久?那什麼事要幾小時?那什麼又是一天又兩天嗎?市長你就是沒有做啦你有做你就可以直接來回答我了嘛沒有啊,不然你就直接跟我們講1、2、3,舉一三個注射疫苗,做什麼樣?快篩?還是什麼?你再強調一次好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10799.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10824.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
居家醫療的大概是一天我們一天就集合那那個感控的我們是透過那個視訊視訊的這個教學視訊教學的培訓多久那個視訊教學的培訓大概也是大概一天左右你怎麼都會叫做大概你怎麼都會叫做大概你現在答問我全部都叫大概你會不會叫做大概的造物師的師長 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10826.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10832.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
趙復師 大概 蔡市長醫療 不能讓你這樣回答吧 你的專業我是非常慶祝的嘛 對不對他們這個一段時間 75%已經沒有你這個市長的職業剛剛市長是講6小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10843.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10872.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
什麼樣的6小時?不然你要替台北公務請做,是多少個項目6小時?感控的方面6小時那其他的大致上舉兩個就好了,大致上是幾小時?居家醫療的我們是做那個指引的訓練那那個講解也是早上講解然後下午講解但是早上兩個小時下午是兩個小時這樣也是大概嘛所以居家關懷也是大概嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10877.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10900.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
醫療可以講大概醫療的培訓、醫護的培訓可以講大概上午兩節、下午兩節啦不然這樣啦,我印象中平均是一週上班、上課一週培訓是一週,沒有好,沒有代表照護師沒有不代表其他的這個公部門的單位沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10901.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10921.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
你要不要把這些東西弄出來盤整清楚然後做一個統一的規範那相對的對這些願意受到政府趕招回來支援在第一現場的這些醫護人員我們有相關的這些要點作業的要點可以保障他們然後也把這樣的這個草案可以訂出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10922.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10949.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好 我們來處理 我就要求這個而已嘛好 沒問題 之前沒有做啦這個都必須要做 而且很重要就因為之前沒有做 現在我們就落實來做嘛好 一個星期嘛 可以吧好 我們把資料整體起來跟委員報告好 謝謝那第二件事也是這樣 現在除了緊急狀況增加退職的醫護人員能力之外還需要正本期就是正式現在疫病的這樣的一個環境嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10950.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10976.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
然後衛福部會改善護理人力的這個護客從去年3月就已經推動急性一般病患的這個三班的達標獎勵嘛然後就是國立醫院要補儲這個護理人力那三班護病比達標的獎勵我想大家都很清楚嘛第一個階段就是2024的3月到2025的6月嘛其實就是三個月就已經結束了啦那你第二階段什麼時候開始7月開始算7月 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10980.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10996.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
7月就開始第二個階段就是一定要三班達標才獎勵你們第一個階段有做相關的檢討然後調整一些這樣的一個計畫然後包含未達標該如何去做處理然後有達標的當然就獎勵嘛對不對那未達標怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11001.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11017.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
只要三班 白班 小業 大業 中有兩班達標 衛護部及一各院申報住院護理會額外給予3%加成獎勵 對不對沒有錯吧 好 如果三班全數達標加成提高至7% 對不對謝謝衛護部 謝謝部長 謝謝司長衛護達標你怎麼處理衛護達標怎麼處理有達標我們獎勵嘛對 沒達標的勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11030.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11056 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
比如說第一階段目前沒有達標的是27家我沒有問你幾家你直接跟我講怎麼處理你針對我的問題答我好不好那每一家的特殊性都不一樣我沒有在問你特殊性啊我就請教你未達標你們怎麼處理啊你要特殊性要去特殊處理我尊重嘛那你要不要講說他們達標有達到這樣如果有特殊性你要不要另外再加成 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11057.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11070.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
3比7啊 那特殊性要不要3比7比10你才跟我講說你要懲處的是有特殊性啊我們要公平啊 我們要一視同仁啊 該獎勵獎勵啊我們的邏輯很簡單嘛 我們把事情講清楚嘛 不對你也是一個很聰明的人為什麼沒有懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11082.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11090.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
因為現在先鼓勵你現在是跟你這個額外加3%跟這個加成這個三班落全數達標加成提高到7%是針對醫院喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11092.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11118.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
對不對?對阿醫院沒有達標有達標你獎勵他嘛對不對阿沒有達標沒事沒有達標就是公告然後去了解他的內容剛剛其實我們也有分析那裡面有不少是地區醫院那地區醫院他們就沒有報八家市地區醫院就沒有把書記報上來嘛沒有把住院信報上來他們怎麼敢 你知道當部長咧他們怎麼敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11120.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11133.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
他們怎麼敢不報上來?他們是有多大的膽子不報上來?有報上來,但是沒有...沒有住院病人有些地區醫院應該是有的沒有住院病人,地區醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11145.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11153.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我問這件問題是這樣,全國372家醫院,311家都有達標,大致上,對不對?好,但有53家,不是你講的,不是剛剛市長講的,29家27家是113年的3月到今年的3月,那這個是4月份現在第一階段已經結束了,你再跟我講113年的3月 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11174.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11183.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那你現在在跟我補充是114年的試驗你現在是要用哪一個段層來跟我來做這個說明跟委會做說明蔡大愷市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11187.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11213.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
三月以前的是27家那四月...董事長我給你看其實很簡單的啦你先不要回答啦你不要急著回答你就讓市長回答嘛你看啦你看嘛你剛剛講的地區醫院嘛對不對紅色的字那叫什麼醫院?附地鋪子醫院那是地區醫院對不對還有育理醫院嘛對不對那區域醫院呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11215.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11238.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
台南便衣沒有啦,前一陣子那兩支你也唸一下喔,那是地道中心,慈濟醫院不是啦,不是啦,紅衣的保安你唸一下,你有沒有聽到雙河醫院沒有啦,那是醫藥中心嘛,對不對,我說區醫院啦區醫院的部立台南醫院對,部立嘛,再來部立台北醫院再來部立苗栗醫院,部立鳳梨醫院,部立彰化醫院,部立南投醫院你們的部立實在很清,通通沒有打標 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11240.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11242.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
請教你還沒答對因為補補到待會補力便宜就對了有辦法三班互併比這會答標 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11256.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11262.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
請蔡大蓋市長再說明一下 部長你休息一下蔡大蓋市長要提供的是113年未達標的然後他現在講的又再補充114年未達標的 在4月前 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11276.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11301.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
報告委員因為我們大部分的醫院都在偏鄉離島然後我們為了臺南在偏鄉離島台北在偏鄉離島彰化在偏鄉離島我們為了不要讓你要不要修正你剛剛講的偏鄉離島這幾句話因為你們衛島三幫互併比的醫院我剛剛列的這幾家不利醫院它不是偏鄉離島的醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11303.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11321.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
這幾家醫院你要不要先修正你剛剛對我回應的第一句話我們再有辦法統一下去不然就請你可以回到你的座位上因為我也沒有邀請你上來有幾個原因第一個原因你要不要先修正你剛剛講的第一句話不修正請你回到你的座位下修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11322.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11345.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
另外是因為我們為了怕急著擁塞比如說台北醫院在北部有很多醫學中心他們可能為了護病比的關係可能有關床那我們不要造成人球事件所以其實他們的床是沒有關完全沒有關就維持開放所以他們會讓護理人員有很多很好的福利所以那些護理人員願意撐著讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11348.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11368.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
讓民眾享受比較好的醫療而不是用關床來解決這個護病比的問題我沒有問你到後面這個問題你只要這麼講你不關床你就是把人力補足就這樣而已我們會努力補足人力我現在要給部長看的是部長醫護會還是照護師他們可以幫你講到什麼程度幫你們說明到什麼程度其實都很困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11378.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11401.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
今天三班護兵比魏達標不立院這麼多家這個數字顯示出來,紅字就是不及格嘛難看不好看所以我請長官講說底下的幕僚單位到底在做什麼事情請部長要小心啦我們會去加油你當然要加油,你自己加油也不夠你又加加酒吧也不夠這不是這樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11408.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11418.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
對 人人百人三百幾斤都要到達標提供這個獎勵的加乘對醫院喔3% 7%那我才會請教你啊 那未達標你怎麼處理啊不管什麼原因啦 你怎麼處理嘛有獎就有乘啊很簡單的邏輯問題嘛柏堯 請你輸課好不好一禮拜一禮拜檢討報告然後去做修正嘛 好不好最好齁 最好台灣那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11436.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11458.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
照顧室強調這筆款像是專管專用必須用於護理人員然後針對不同班設計留任方案醫院需要在院內公開分配方式並向護理人員說明清楚對不對沒有錯嘛臺灣護理產業公會跟你講說你不要這樣做我們要不要把獎勵金直接報給病人由醫院統籌運用政府不干預喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11463.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11481.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
我們獎勵金有兩類我當然知道獎勵金有兩類啊我再跟你講哪一類你很清楚啊你不要再跳來跳去啊因為每一家醫院他拿到的獎勵金都不一樣所以這個是我們的規範每一家醫院拿到的獎勵金當然不一樣啊但是你是招募師你卻有同一個規範啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11483.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11502.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
有規範啊沒有規範你規範怎麼可以說你不管我們沒有說不管啊你怎麼管我們是公告啊然後我們有調查他們會回覆啊公告完之後他違反咧他違反你相關的公告規定你怎麼處理啊你怎麼處理啊就收回啊就收回啊怎麼收回你到目前為止收回幾筆為照你們公告的規範去執行你到目前為止你收回幾筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11511.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11514.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
你收回幾筆,你跟委員說明,你收回幾筆你連大概收回一筆都沒有啦你好有好有意思在這邊講大放厥詞我尊重你們,你們把這些委員當成在委員會的意思在呼嚨亂七八糟到幾點 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11545.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11573.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
護理人員一直依賴的,一直對於期待的,是非常高尤其對部長,不然你怎麼對台南人愛所以對培養管理,對護理人員照顧,你都比什麼更清楚你的制度有問題,獎勵沒有人去挑戰你但是為達標,你的部理醫院比例這麼高然後你自己講這麼清楚,專管專用今天醫院,你給了他的獎勵,他沒有專管專用 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11575.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11581.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
你沒有任何的方式可以做處理你還好意思在這個委員會跟我講說收回你收回哪一筆的啊報告委員我們一定堅決來執行你這個委員是予以賠償你做的這個問題這案子繼續在出現對你有好補是好事嘛對你有好補要帶領全國的醫護人員在每一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11602.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11625.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
他盡心盡責 負責職業的場所這是一件好事嗎絕對不好嘛 對不對那我們政策上有一些問題政策上有一些問題我們就該修啊 該面對啊你沒有做到沒有做到事情 你怎麼好意思在公開在這邊講然後問題 你一直用偏鄉醫療來搪塞我你當初今天這個委員會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11630.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11645.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
下禮拜看蘇貞昊要不要排考察啦全部的不理會我們全部走一次啦好 施委員我們會努力 謝謝這個我要補充一下就是事實上這個護理獎勵金到每一個人是到戶頭上 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11647.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11668.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
所以那個都是可以電腦交出來每一筆都會到護理人員的帳號幾乎所有都是這樣那有沒有違規的那當然要查那這個我們再來加油啦好謝謝劉兆偉謝謝那我們接續請黃秀芳委員質詢謝謝主席我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11682.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11702.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
委員好部長好 部長我先就這一次可能這個美國對等關稅的議題那基層很多人會擔心未來這個藥品的這個價格是不是會上漲或者是會有缺藥的這樣的一個狀況那我想請教就是說衛福部針對這一部分你們有做什麼樣的因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11704.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11730.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
好 我想國際的現在關稅的變化我們必須要延至擬代那在不管是藥品或醫材在價格方面那當然有可能因為營養藥的提升所以會增加提高它的價錢所以這個時候我們當然相對的不管是在健保的體制裡面我們都會根據廠商進口的成本來提高它的一個給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11732.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11757.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
所以你們有這樣因應的一個對策這個都已經成立這個對策會密切來注意監測那第二個我們也要徹底來改善我們藥品的公用韌性包括我們支持新藥在地製造鼓勵國產學民要及早進入市場等等的這樣的一個系列那個部分這幾個策略我們都已經設立在那一邊來應應這樣的一個變局 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11760.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11772.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
好 那我希望就是說因應這個美國的對等關稅的這個議題一旦開始實施或發生之後衛福部能夠及時來反應不要因為這個關稅的議題影響到我們的藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11775.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11789.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
或者是讓這個基層需要用藥的這個部分可能會有一個短缺我們希望說真的要戒慎恐懼我這個真的是要事先提醒部長還有署長另外我想請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11791.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11801.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
部長在前陣子在基層我們看到就是說集中南韓那尤其是兒科的部分我以彰化為例彰化兒科這個9點過後的這個急診 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11807.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11836.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
就只剩下張基因為張基他有兒童醫院那其他的這個醫院他們都沒有九點過後就沒有這個兒科的一個急診那不論是兒科或者是急重男寒的這個部分其實我擔心的就是說可能未來會比較集中在都市那偏鄉的部分可能所有的醫師可能不太願意到偏鄉以目前我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11837.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11857.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
彰化的竹塘、方院、大城、二林這幾個鄉鎮所有的診所的醫師年紀都已經偏大了可能都七八十歲了那未來也許這些醫師不再看診之後這些鄉鎮可能就沒有醫師 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11859.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11875.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
就沒有醫師我覺得這是很嚴重的一個問題那甚至我看到就是說我們那個重點科別培育的這個公費醫師我不知道說為什麼衛福部好像針對這一部分有做一些調整是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11876.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11901.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
工會醫師因為他的計畫到今年就結束了那結束之後呢就沒有延續沒有延續那沒有延續的話剛我講的偏鄉也許未來這些這個年紀比較偏大這些資深的醫師退休之後再看診之後可能就剩下衛生所的醫師那衛生所的醫師這些醫師他未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11903.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11930.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
也許會很難招聘喔這些公費的醫師這些衛生所的醫師他也許也不想到偏鄉喔所以我覺得說如果你們把這個重點科別培育的公費醫師到今年結束你們就這樣子結束之後未來你的公費醫師或者是偏鄉的醫師你要找醫師我覺得應該都會非常的困難所以我希望部長針對這部分你們應該要好好的去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11931.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11952.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
是的 謝謝委員 我們台灣現在的醫事人力是不換寡 是換不均是 所以全部都集中在 服醫措施到偏鄉那當然現在目前的在地養成的還是有在地啦 那比較老一點因為公會醫師其實訓練以後 他服務以後基本上就 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11953.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11978.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
大概都會離開那個服務的地方所以部長我今天要講的在地養成的應該是比較需要關注那部長你講的在地養成那我今天要講的就是說如果你把這個重點科別培育的公費醫師這個時間到今年為止嘛那你後面你不再有這樣的一個計畫那未來我覺得說這個偏鄉的醫師或這個比較偏鄉的衛生所的醫師我覺得你都會很難去 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11984.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11999.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
剛開始最後一屆是醫學生所以後面延年不絕至少有十年是後面還有醫師的可是部長你不擔心未來這些醫師就集中在都市嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12000.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12028.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
當然我們現在譬如說這幾年的公費生為什麼大家比較有意見有些學生都比較有意見因為他要服務比以前多啦要到10年那你今年既然你是一個公費醫師的話那你就知道就是說我就是要綁定服務幾年嘛對現在就是這樣子嘛目前這幾年都是綁定10年如果你不願意的話那你就不要投入公費醫師嘛對不對那所以我覺得部長我覺得這個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12029.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12052.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我認為應該要讓他繼續 要不然你以後偏鄉的醫師我覺得你應該是很難找到因為公會醫師也算是在醫師人力 所以可能會增加到醫學生的名額這個部分我們也會謹慎來處理 應該更重要的是鼓勵那個更多的人 例如集中症 到偏鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12052.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12057.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
當然你願意到偏鄉你要有誘因啊如果今天你看到人家到偏鄉誘因公衛醫師是其中之一而已啦有更多的像我以前在台大當完總醫師我也到幾乎沒有醫師的金山鄉那你在那邊待幾年我在那邊待兩年待兩年以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12076.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12080.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
現在30年後面都是有總醫師在那邊當主任部長我今天要跟你講的所以看制度的問題我就覺得醫學中心也有責任去對偏鄉地區的醫療的人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12095.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12108.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這個意思中平線的六大任務裡面也是有提到這個部分那我們給他相對的一個幫忙支持很多大醫院是願意去照顧偏鄉這樣也是一個制度啦當然我們可以多元化來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12110.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12136.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
部長我今天想要特別的提醒你因為我看到我們彰化地區有很多比較偏遠的鄉鎮那真的醫師年紀都偏大那偏大之後未來這些這個醫師不再看診之後這些鄉鎮就沒有沒有牙醫診所沒有一般的那個診所是完全都沒有現在這個鄉鎮可能就只有一家兩家甚至有的之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12137.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12159.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
在前幾年是連一間那個牙科醫師牙科診所完全都沒有所以如果說你今天要有這樣的一個重點培育的公費制度的話我認為應該是要有一些誘因而且如果你今天要投入公費醫師的話那你就知道說這個時間你可能在這個地方你可能要服務5年10年甚至15年那 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12161.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12179.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
當然他願意再偏鄉的話我們要給他更好的一個薪資更好的福利我覺得這應該也是我們的重點要不然你看到現在很多的醫院護理人員大家覺得說護理人員為什麼都不想投入即使他今天讀了護理科系可是他就不願意投入這個當護理師為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12183.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12206.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
因為他覺得太辛苦也許薪資不是他理想的他想要再找其他的工作所以我覺得說部長今天應該要去好好的思考如果今天偏鄉的醫師未來五年十年後不再有人在那邊服務的話我覺得這個是一個國家非常重大的一個危機那如果你今天原本有的這樣的一個重點培育的計畫如果可以繼續延續的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12209.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12224.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
這個醫師他願意投入偏鄉那你應該就要有更豐厚的這個福利來支撐讓他願意到偏鄉去服務所以部長我在這邊要特別提醒你這個制度我覺得你應該要好好的再去思考好 我們再來演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12226.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12248.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
再來演繹因為這個要注意到是不是會增加因為他那個公會醫師沒有算在醫學生的容額裡面所以這個醫學界也會有意見不是啦請三個意外啦是啦 保證我現在要跟你說的好多醫生如果願意投入偏鄉的話那當然是OK的我們在鼓勵我們在鼓勵沒有問題啊今天就是沒有人要去嘛今天如果說大家都很想要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12253.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12276.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
那當然這個就沒問題啊那今天是重點你重點急送難喊或者是偏鄉就沒人要去啊所以你就是要另外一套制度來支撐嘛那再來就是說你要有更更好的誘因更大的誘因讓他想要到偏鄉去服務啦一定一定我這是一家宇宙新廠因為我曾經常常下鄉過我很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12277.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12299.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
那個我跑過無數個偏鄉的一個醫療服務我很清楚必須要有更多的因為包括去那邊的都還是連剛好小孩子都很小他們其實是很難離開太原所以怎麼樣做好各方面的處理以及保障他回來可以當醫院的主治醫師或者是怎麼樣這有很多的方式就可以讓我們的年輕的醫師願意去服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12301.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12323.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
所以我好那這個部分我們會來整體來研議真的我要特別提醒部長齊眾南韓那兒科的部分確實現在的醫師真的也很難找所以真的保定一部分你真的要再去思考好好的思考未來如果真的找不到偏鄉的醫師那怎麼辦齊眾跟偏鄉是我們要努力的重點謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12326.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12329.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
主席麻煩邱部長委員好部長晚安晚安 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12360.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12377.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
上禮拜一的那個丹納斯颱風造成中南部很嚴重的災情 台電人員在這週都還在搶救那到7月12號就上週六的中午為止急救的那個責任醫院收治的緊急傷病患總計大概713人 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12378.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12396.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
突顯在緊急天災的時候維持醫療的量能的重要性可是有媒體報導台風期間有很多中部的醫院事實上是縮減服務有的甚至停止門診這情形在過去不太明顯不過本席認為為了維護醫療人員的安全的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12397.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12423.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
臺豐天醫院縮減服務大概是情有可願可是有一屆人是懷疑今年的特例跟剛上路的醫院個別總額的試辦計畫是有關的所以對醫院來說恐怕會擔心就診的人數超過總額那導致點數打折所以臺豐天就乾脆就停診了那所以想問部長說如果這是事實的話那就是一個很嚴重的警訊所以請 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12427.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12445.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
部長針對媒體提出來的疑問做回應好 謝謝委員的垂醒跟關心我們在台風天或者一般時候的一個醫療的運作那像張基總院陳木寬院長所提的要信奉對病人的承諾我想所有的醫院的院長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12445.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12470.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
都是懷抱有這樣的情懷所以不會受到幾乎是不會因為颱風天而是很故意就除了說向南部就沒水沒電那當然是沒辦法反而我們現在都要去補助他那中部這個我跟委員報告一下我們7月1號到15號也就是在風災這段期間中區分歧的 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12471.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12497.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
健保IC卡上傳的件數還比去年113人成長11.5%表示他們的看診並沒有受到風災的影響所以這個我相信中部的醫院應該是不至於因為可能停班你如果停班讓你去外面來就變成加班那可能有些 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12498.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12504.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
現在颱風天上班也不好現在基層的醫護也是非常重視這個醫院也很重視安全所以現在都以颱風天上班的規定所以我們在安全的經營之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12517.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12529.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
其實便宜也都只能在運作啦除了它真的被因為台灣現在風險也比較高隨時又有可能短時間內出現我們的大量傷患健保支付制度如果沒有妥善規劃的話影響到緊急狀況的 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12532.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12550.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
醫療量能的話這是民眾很擔心的事情請民眾安心我們的各位醫院總和現在運轉得很好而且也沒有發生人球的事件在此之前醫院個別總和制在南區就已經試辦大概實施了三年到今年一月中 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12550.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12566.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
1月在中区开始实施全国最晚实施的是台北区从今年的4月1号开始所以请问部长台北区最晚实施的原因是不是因为医学中心比别的地区多那需要更多的时间沟通是因为这个原因吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12567.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12594.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
是因為台北區的文化因為我在台北西海很久他們都覺得他們是要接受很嚴重的病人不能沒有後路了啦所以比較大的醫院包括台大龍總他會覺得說他們有先天的使命所以他們很擔心這樣的一個是不是影響到他們照顧病人結果我們溝通以後他們也發現說如果讓我們的這樣一個一定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12595.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12624.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
總而之下也根本也有一些剛性需求的話也不受影響需要的急重症那個都不受影響另外也可以把一些比較輕症的病人能夠盡量在分級醫療的理念之下放給那個比較屬於中小型或地區的醫院這樣反而形成一個良好的一個分級醫療而且有一點點財務的控制財務控制是其實不只醫院啦也是區域都在管那是不是我們也跟他 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12625.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12652.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
跟他溝通就是未來的方向也要讓民眾健康促進讓整個所有的健保也要朝向讓民眾更健康那這樣的話就變成一個分級醫療以此做對人民健康最好的一個模式那以到目前來講北區也得大家應做得相當好那用醫院個別種而治來控制健保經費支出這當然直接影響到醫院門診檢查手術甚至急救 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12653.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12673.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
等可以收治的病人數量我們擔心醫院為了健保點數不要超過總額發生拒收重症病患的狀況所以也要請教部長說那這樣子要怎麼去避免這種狀況發生好 謝謝委員我是不是請站拍手署長剪調的跟大家報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12673.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12694.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
跟委員報告從我們的統計來看我們在疫情前國人就醫的次數每年是15次在所有的OECD國家是非常非常的高那麼到了疫後我們從去年的數字又再往上升已經逼近17次了所以這中間一定可以有管理的地方所以我們希望透過這個醫院的個別總額來強化這個分級醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12697.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12719.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
那麼對於慢性病的管理也好跟病人的就醫能夠有適當的一些好的管理措施那也可以讓國人得到照顧所以急重症的部分我們都是在個別總和裡面都是保障在中區的話他們是沒有限制只要你是急重症的他都是保障成長所以不會有斷頭的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12720.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12735.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
可是中區當然我覺得目前看起來不是太我寧願已經實施三年可是民眾普遍相信台北的醫院又多又好所以外縣市的急重症的病患經常都會到台北區的那個教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12736.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12754.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
醫學中心來所以從圖表上可以看到是說台北區的健保點子從前年到去年增加的幅度是非常明顯的可是病人總不能都擠到台北區所以應該是就近就醫才比較好所以如果說要盡可能讓他們就近就醫的話您的對策是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12755.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12770.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
跟委員報告我們都有在監測流入跟流出所以從這幾年這幾個我們按季按月都在監測這個台北區的流入情形並沒有增加整個比例是沒有增加那當然各地區的醫院的數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12771.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12792.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
還有這個病床數確實也有變動所以像北區或台北區北區這幾年的醫院的加速是增加病床數也增加那當然他就會影響到這個分佈的情形所以並沒有讓台北區的就醫人數有明顯的增加所以我覺得後期可以觀察因為接下來台北也要執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12795.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12809.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
中的榮總因二零二五年第一季的健保申報的點數就超出額度那遭健保署核三了三億元那另外張基也是光總院就核三掉一點二億元這凸顯醫院在個別總額 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12812.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12830.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
好的上邊來看的話馬上就會面對到一些困境那健保署的說法呢事實上是健保總額執行已經行之有年的話那現行的個別醫院的總額制的是南區實施的做法那南區的經驗現在是成功的那推行到全國 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12831.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12859.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我剛剛講台北市現在4月1號執行的話那後邊到底會怎麼樣不太確定因為南區只有兩家醫學中心而且健保點子都是比較高的那一樣的制度在台北區可能會不會面對到很多問題所以想問說對醫院來說要控制健保總額要避免虧損除了要減少病患以外就是從醫護人員的薪水下手這是我們最擔心的衛福部有沒有應對的措施去解決這種可能出現的 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12860.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12879.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
醫護減薪然後不賬薪或是預缺不補的問題跟委員報告我們第一劑今年的第一劑跟去年的第一劑相比所有的醫院的點值都是大幅的提升以台北區為例去年醫院的點值在沒有斷頭之前那麼大概不到0.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12880.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12907.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那今年呢已經是0.93所以比去年都是提升的那醫院的營收也都是成長的那但是呢相對的醫院的病床的規模並沒有明顯的增加啦在台北區而言所以我們現在正在積極的希望呢醫院把這個增加的這個收入呢那麼能夠轉化成在人員的加薪上面我們在做這個努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12907.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12933.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
所以有再去促成這件事嗎因為我們最擔心的就是這個在這個總額被限制的制度裡面門診量跟手術量大的醫生聽起來也是會不會相對被變相被處罰因為事情卻做得越多跟報酬卻無法增加那要怎麼去避免這種狀況根文報告我們都有相關的這監測那麼我剛剛也提到有一些的門診的次數確實可以減少那麼醫療人員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12938.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12962.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
這個過勞情形其實也是蠻重的所以我們希望透過好的管理也讓這個醫護人員減壓啦那至於是剛性的需求這個在我們的總額裡面都是保障的而且在明年在談總額成長的時候個別醫院總額成長的時候也會看他的人力的投入情形有沒有增加薪資的這個組長我剛才也提到南區 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12963.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12988.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
事實上你覺得是成功經驗可是媒體有報導說在最早開始用這個制度的時候南區就已經開始有部分醫院用降薪限制醫生門診量跟手術量還有全力鼓吹病患自費等等的方式去控制不讓醫療點數超過每劑的總額所以想問說為了避免無效醫療當然我們覺得浪費資源或過度控制手術量門診量跟檢查量 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12989.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12999.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
是需要的 必要的一個措施在 可是如果醫院為了省錢 讓手術量 門診量跟檢查量下降 就會傷害當地區的醫療量能這個問題你們要怎麼去應對 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13001.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13022.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
跟委員報告其實這個我們南區先實施之後高屏區然後北區就是陸陸續續大家還跟進也就是大家互相在學習一個制度剛上路的時候難免有需要調整的地方但是經過南區先行這幾年之後那麼發現了他其實大家都 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13023.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13048.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
都很滿意啦所以才持續擴大到其他的各區以現在第一劑為例南區的點值超過1.1塊錢了那麼高屏區也是差不多是0.99啦所以靠近這個1啦所以相對於這個沒有實施之前來講呢那麼其實這個對醫院的營收更穩定那他更能夠做比較中長期的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13050.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13065.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
好 疏解醫院門診壓力的解方就是弱勢分級醫療 所以為了控制總額呢 各醫院可能把重症的病人轉出去 重症病人呢事實上是不會往送去診所 而是到各大醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13066.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13085.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
的那個診間去轉診踢來踢去最後把被送到不能再將病人轉出去的部立醫院或者醫學中心結果導致呢部立醫院跟醫學中心負擔更大醫護工作量更大所以部長想問說你們衛福怎麼去因應病人如果被當人球轉來轉去的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13088.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13112.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
這個我們都有監測的指標在看就是病人的轉出轉入在我們的健保系統裡面都看得非常的清楚從哪邊轉來的比例有多少這個都很清楚的指標都在而且我們剛剛也提到說在急重症的部分它是剛性需求是被保障成長的那相對的呢你這個轉診的不當轉診呢那我們就會把你調降成為用 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13112.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13134.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
不保障點值的方式去處理所以對醫院我們也會有一些處罰的措施不過署長寫請教一下以南區為例在個別總額以下過去三年大醫院的輕症病轉回地區醫院或診所的成效怎麼樣因為你剛剛講說我不知道你有沒有掌握這個成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13136.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13163.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
就是轉診的部分那個南區的轉診成效都是蠻好的沒有什麼問題我們再提供詳細的數字給再麻煩最後想問因為我覺得不管天災或平時台灣醫療體系的需求越來越大政府有餘裕應該是投入社會福利或醫療體系而不是普發現金這是我的看法所以請問部長因為的確我們現在隨著需求越大的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13164.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13176.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那大家很遺憾的是最近立法院通過的普發現金要把兩千三百五十億發出去而不是投入我們關心的社會福利或是醫療體系對此部長有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13176.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13197.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我想醫療體系跟社福它是一個長久的一個規劃所以如果國家有財富比較盈餘的時候應該把醫療的符合來醫療的需求跟社福的需求這應該是會比較能夠一本多利能夠有時候要看它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13198.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13206.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
效力也許能夠創造人民更多的健康跟幸福會創造更多的健康跟幸福 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13208.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13224.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
最後就請我們的衛福部應該要確保我們的醫療量能然後輕重症的病患都能夠受到妥善照顧還有就要保障醫護人員的一個權益還有落實醫療分級以上謝謝謝謝林委員 謝謝部長 署長來 接下來我們請徐宇臻委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13236.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13239.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
謝謝主席 我們請衛福部邱部長還有勞動部理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13244.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13269.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
委員好還有次長好利用這個機會跟部長說明一下普發現金是利用超徵的稅收還稅於民所以並不會排擠到所謂的衛福跟社會這個社會福利方面的支出所以我想剛剛這個部分我必須要在這邊說明一下然後另外想請教一下就是從7月7號的丹納斯颱風侵襲全台造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13270.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13290.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
雲林台南嘉義縣市大概有超過百萬戶的用電停電那雖然台電有派出大量的人力附電真的也非常的辛苦但是因為過了11天目前還是最新的數據是還有500多戶還沒附電那我先請教一下李次長如果有政府的高層 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13291.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13307.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
期許導致員工有效有搶休的一個時效跟壓力造成台電員工超時跟過勞或是防護的措施不夠完善因而發生意外這個責任誰要來負責是台電公司還是政府高層 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13308.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13326.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
跟委員說明台電公司這一次他們都有依照勞基法32條還有40條一規定跟地方政府勞工局來做那個加班計畫的報備然後來備查所以這個在勞基法的法規上是完全合法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13327.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13346.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那請問一下就是目前也有因為很多台電的員工包括工會都有提出來他們有過勞的相關問題那這個部分就是當然也有一位理性員工目前還在急救當中那意外發生了之後請問是要怎麼釐清責任勞動部會不會開始進行調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13347.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13361.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我們已經依照相關職安法的規定開始進行調查了是嗎先請他們停工然後進行調查請他們停工然後進行調查所以是開始調查了沒已經在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13363.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13382.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
可能要請這個會後是不是請這個這個我們調查完備之後是不是可以送交本委員會還有本席這邊來瞭解狀況那我剛為什麼要說這樣呢是因為7月9號的時候卓榮泰院長前往嘉義縣視察停電然後要拼9日夜間復電7月11號賴清德總統郭智輝部長前往台南市視察台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13387.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13412.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
搶修的狀況 他們現場說天黑前要全部送電你認為台電會不會有負電的壓力我想負電是全民全社會的共同期待那台電員工也非常努力在幫助這些地區的民眾台電非常的用心我們知道但是如果高層施壓的話你覺得會不會有這樣子的一個負電的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13413.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13432.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我想這個壓力應該是台電的員工他們從上到下都攜帶趕快幫民眾來復電他們本身在總統院長之前就非常努力了市長你不要因為是卓榮泰院長跟賴清德總統或部長你就不敢說真話事實上一定會有壓力的我剛剛是在表達我真心的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13433.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13461.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
是我也是表達我真心的話我覺得今天總統這個院長都說什麼這個總統在11號說天黑前全部要送電你覺得基層會不會有壓力一定會有所以在這個部分我想台電面對這個要加速附電的壓力所以導致有員工這個發生病危的這個事故然後像李姓員工他的爸爸就指出搶修的時候還要才繼續通電 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13463.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13486.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
所以沒有在最安全的狀況之下造成這樣一個憾事所以勞動部有沒有針對這個部分提出調查對 剛已經跟委員說明我們已經正在調查中就是也是針對這個案子就對了好 那是針對這個部分可能希望就是能盡快的釐清這樣的事故那另外請教部長就是針對這一次的颱風我們剛剛提到就還有到現在11天還有500多戶還沒有復點 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13488.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13507.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
所以很多重症的病患會依賴呼吸器抽痰器這些重症病患所以在台南就有發生了兩起呼吸器病患因為停電無法使用設備而宣告不治的案例請問一下部長就是當前的災害應變的體系是不是有把這個仰賴電力維生的人納入核心保護的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13508.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13532.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
是的我們對於在災難產生的時候我們就會動員六區的一個緊急應變中心來做好醫療的一個整備同時我們會被比較可能可能會受災的區域他們的弱勢團體來希望移動那像產婦洗腎的這些都是在我們的衛生局一定要把它移了那請問這個有照冊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13536.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13562.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
就是你是不是也可以先建立一個高風險的醫療戶的名冊而不是被動的說當發生事情的時候某些地方可以做這樣的事情可是事實上你都可以先列冊然後針對這些不管是小呼吸器或這個抽痰器他們需要的這些用戶他們就可以馬上先提供他們的這樣的援助不要讓電力中斷我想衛生局他其實都應該是算逼 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13563.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13571.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
比中央更清楚所以我們都會跟衛生局來討論那有沒有列冊呢就我所知目前是沒有可能我們現在的重點是比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13574.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13596.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
比較適合於偏鄉的一個孕婦洗腎的啦那至於說在家裡居家照顧的這個部分我想我們未來因為像這次停電已經11天了所以說針對這樣子在家裡需要呼吸器的這些病人他本來不需要因為這樣子一個颱風就真的命喪黃泉而是真正如果我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13597.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13620.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
盡快的附墊給他有幾個這個所謂的高風險的醫療戶的部分我們盡快的附墊給他就可能不會發生這樣的憾事包委員醫院本身都有發電機是沒有不是我是指在家的那現在在家裡的就是這樣的一個轉介燈這個我們會來檢討對台中的時候是不是可以把我們這方面的這個利率我們會把這個謝謝委員的關心我們這個將來會列為好那請部長這個部分希望能夠真正的來落實好謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13627.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13632.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
好 謝謝許委員 謝謝部長那繼續我們請喜新委員質詢好 謝謝主席 本席有請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13650.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13678.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
委員好邱部長好辛苦了我們今天要特別來跟您談有關台美關稅談判所以台灣食品安全的相關影響首先我想國人非常非常關心的就是有關我們在這一次的台美關稅談判中部長可不可以明確的來跟我們國人承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13679.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13697.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
在整個的談判中我們不會放寬有關美豬或美牛含瘦肉精萊克多巴胺的標準不會放寬標準以及標示義務可不可以明確的來跟我們國人承諾我想我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13701.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13726.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
報告委員因為這個食安這個是絕對是我們衛福部要堅守的那食安的一個根據是在哪裡就是在一個科學的分析科學的根據還有依照國際的規範所以這個部分這是我們衛福部在堅守的那自己在談台美關稅的一個談判是不是有去接觸到這個部分談得怎麼樣因為他還在談 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13728.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13753.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
但是我們應該有我們的立場我相信我們談的成員一定很清楚一定很清楚我們跟我們衛福部一樣的一個立場你們有溝通過嗎?您跟我們代表談判的談判官代表台灣的你們有溝通過這塊嗎?應該是非常了解到我們國人的需求當然也要看看國家的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13755.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13772.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
國人的需求 食安的堅持因為他們很辛苦在堅持這幾個原則我覺得全國的民眾應該要支持這些談判的人在這幾個原則之下真的費盡了老金從國家的立場和食安的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13773.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13799.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那個因為我時間也有限我知道您會特別提這個國際標準就是國際還有科學數據那首先第一個您剛剛提到的我們要支持我們代表國家我們大家全國一體嘛那我們認同但是整個台美談判過程你看我們台積電先走了一步然後接著我們整個的關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13800.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13816.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
稅率會多少目前還沒公布但是我們民眾最基本最卑微的要求就是我們不能賠償去食安我們人民的健康還是最基本的所以您既然談到這個科學數據那我想世界各國 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13817.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13830.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
我們有關這個瘦肉精萊克多巴胺的標準大部分都是還是在0.01ppm以下所以這一次的談判我們希望我們整個的標準不要放寬您可不可以具體承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13833.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13838.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
有關於這個訂定的標準的部分對於全世界對於收入金的和國際的規範的確如您所言會有一些些的差異的存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13850.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13863.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
那但是不管是差異在哪裡都我們會回歸到我們的食品安全風險分析科學的基礎我們必須要針對我們的飲食對嘛 我們目前是0.01ppm 肌肉的部分然後內臟是0.04嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13866.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13887.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
我的意思就是說經過這一次的台美關稅的談判我們不要放寬不可以再放寬了可以嗎其實我是希望部長承諾因為部長你都是你去開行政院會還有跟我們包括我們可能代表的副院長所以我們還是希望衛福部的立場就是要堅守 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13889.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13915.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
對 針對這部分的話我特別提一下因為的確如院長 如部長剛才提到的因為談判的過程中在最後的 應該是在最後抽傷的階段那你看到新聞其實有三次的實體的談也有在媒體上其實有一部分的資訊大家因為它本身是所謂原始的國家所謂的National Trade貿易的評估美國所以公開的有很多的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13916.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13932.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那這個議題裡面我們針對這個談判的過程呢其實是不是在這邊我們要的是部長其實您的立場也讓我們民眾安心嘛我們要堅持標準不放寬還有我們的標示也不可以放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13934.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13957.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
就是有關國內標示的義務也不要放寬還是跟委員報告我們食安一定是按照我們國委的習慣還有科學的分析還有一定是符合安全的規範這個是一定要堅持的然後再來因為台灣人跟美國人的飲食習慣不一樣他們不吃內臟我們台灣人很多人吃內臟所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13959.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13968.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
內臟又是殘存量特高的所以我還要特別強調因為這些民眾的期待我們希望衛福部替民眾把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
13970.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
13996.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
是的我們一定替民眾在食安的一個把關所以我們希望不知道也許聽說是8月1號整個公布的時候我們希望是不要讓民眾失望最後最後我們一定會保障民眾的食安健康好謝謝部長我們替民眾把關我們也全力挺您好那最後我想用一點點的時間就是近期國內的缺藥問題頻傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
13998.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14024.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
那新補充錠長期缺貨短效型的胰島素供應也告急民眾用藥權益受損所以很多基層的藥師和專家都呼籲政府要積極備戰所以本席想請問衛福部是否已盤點國內必要藥品的供應現況是否還有對於單一來源或全數仰賴進口的藥品有沒有具體的應對計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14025.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14041.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
是的我想我們國內的兩個方面一個是缺藥的一個機制因為剛剛您提的譬如說是短效性的胰島素這個都是必要的一個藥品所以它的缺藥的一個機制以及通知以及它的儲存我們都有這樣的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14043.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14061.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
這個都有盤點第二個就是說我們還是要長年來講推動整個藥品的改革包括支持新藥在地的製造鼓勵國產的學名藥這兩個部分都是增加我們醫藥醫材韌性很重要的工作很好這剛好也是我的問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14063.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14073.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
部長是不是可以提出明確的時程您剛剛講我們可以鼓勵我們國內藥廠自製一些關鍵藥品降低對進口的依賴有沒有明確的時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14077.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14103.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
市長報委員這邊在食藥署對這個規劃其實非常積極的在進行那這個整個計畫在2月就任以來其實對於學名藥廠原料藥廠及國內外的剛才提到的生物理事的用藥的藥廠都進一步的召集很多的相次委員非常精準的提到我們現在必須要建立更強的一個韌性方向那我們有更進一步的時間積極的在這邊辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14106.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14116.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
應該要有明確的時程嘛我們有個目標有個時程才可以去依據來推動所以是不是會後提供給我們好嗎好的 謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝好 徐委員 謝謝好 謝謝徐委員 謝謝部長署長來 接續我們請王振旭也要你上來啊 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14133.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14136 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
謝謝主席就麻煩邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14142.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14154.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
市長你好,最近辛苦,台北、台南四月遭,大家要做加油,我們都是嘉義人,被蔡議員說的,我們是嘉義人,這邊的風態對嘉義、台南影響很大,電線感 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14166.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14171.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
一共倒了2454,超過2000基台電的人員,李源和同仁,很高興 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14181.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14197.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
有的就要幫助護店嘛 結果再幫你做董事早期去美醫院 保證也要去關心整個醫院其實所有的大家都不太願意 也希望他們能夠接受那些人我們替他激起所以這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14200.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14220.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
索需要大家來幫忙所以今天就是要有兩個強化啦是那就是要怎樣針對災變的量能來強化弱勢安置那第二個強化就是之前有請教過這個疫苗配套部分要強化基層參與這部分我們來跟保安局來討論一下是強化這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14224.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14237.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
有關災情的變化的部分 其實補充也已經強調幾個部分針對運醫療 查災損 顧安置 都有做盡環境的處理方法這部分是不是利用這時間 麻煩補充再給大家報告一下環境的內容 給大家做參考好 我先用這個納斯風災的例子來看我們衛福部的緊急 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14254.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14277.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
緊急應變的一個制度第一個我們一開始當然就是要緊急醫療管理系統就要開案了這樣才能知道各地方傷患所居的情況第二個我們本部有六區我們台灣有六個區的緊急醫療應變中心我們立即來監各個應變中心就是看他當地緊急醫療救護系統其中的情況以及急救責任醫院的運作狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14278.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14303.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
那另外因為這是風災嘛,所以我們怕說淫水或是說有時候剛剛有習委員提的那種情況其實我們也把弱勢的一個病人能夠希望我們所有的縣市我們跟衛生局都有一直在互動把他移到安全的地方,特別是習慎的硬產戶撤離這個都有弱勢,而且這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14305.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14316.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
每8小時可能就要在應變中心裡面報告這樣的一個移動的一個情況以及它整個種情況那當然我們現在如果有更 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14318.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14346.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
更特別的一個災變的一個發生當然我們除了這樣啟動的部分以外當然我們也會更動員到全國的醫療院所的一個支援另外就是社工方面在收容安置這個部分也會有完整的一個規劃包括各個救濟站這個都怎麼樣利用學校怎麼樣利用衛生所等等的這個我們都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14346.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14362.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
一個週密的一個機制在規劃其實大家也知道因為台灣真的是每一年的風災颱風影響很大至少一年都平均有3.2個颱風會侵襲台灣每一次颱風之前不管中央地方都會開設 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14363.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14392.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
一些應變中心來做一些安排那也看到這一次的確透過這樣的安排得到很好的一些照顧模式當然還是有很多部分持續要加強啦是剛才博長有跟我們說明說很多都是經過事前的一些安排處置所以也的確發揮它的量能還有互相幫助的這個成果不過我們也知道這個安置到底有沒有制度上的忽略 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14393.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14422.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
這個就是剛剛部長有提到我們看到一些新聞媒體的報導他們說你們待會還有處理屋頂還在就不用通知他們安置所以很顯然就是說我們在制度上需要再補強當然我們透過這一次風災的這麼大的傷害的影響還是有很多需要再檢討的地方所以不是說我們通知就表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14422.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14439.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
照顧他的安全同理跟他照顧其實還是有一些落差那尤其現在是不管是偏鄉或者是非偏鄉可是有一些弱勢的失能的失智的長者這邊特別來讓我們知道我們之前都說 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14442.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14469.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
會跟你通知說你去哪裡問題是很多的通知是臨時通知的這些人通知的對或不會這個就是未來我們希望透過這次風災造成的影響在制度上是不是需要再重新檢討同時來補強不管是事前通知也好或者是這些失年的應變機制也好還有偏鄉幼視失能長者的保護機制也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14469.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14497.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
這部分我不知道我們現在在檢討的時候會包括幾部分包括剛剛有委員提到在處理他需要呼吸器的還有他可能在家裡需要洗腎的這個如果是沒有電沒有水要怎麼幫忙他屬性要怎麼安排這個應該做到事先就有機制不管是中央要出指引有地方來執行過程當中碰到的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14498.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14519.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
還有中央能不能夠建就是請中央這邊就開始建立這些弱勢的時候出現這些天災害孫應該有完整的安置名冊你先知道說哪裡什麼人他住在哪裡他如果要安置要安置去什麼地方這個都要有一個整體的配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14519.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14528.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
我們就不會發生問題,這開始通緝,通緝也不知道我們通緝道有辦法處理還是沒有這部分是不是可以先補充來做相關的這個研議,或者是在執行上將來要怎麼來做應變的部分謝謝委員的一個隨行,那當然我們各個 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14543.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14571.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
因為各個縣市衛生局或社政他都有一定的非常佈置到相當周全的一個照顧那這中間一會發生變化的話無論是電話卡不通啦或者是說人力的縣市這個部分的確如果能夠在照冊上更加的周全包括我們獨基老人這個部分有時候也要注意這樣的情況我想謝謝委員我們會把這樣的工作再把它來檢討來把它更落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14572.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14600.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
好,包括衛生、社政,還有包括地方衛生局、林醫長,我們有這個名冊出來,當然你做事情就必然好做第二項就是有關疫苗配套的部分,上一次也有麻煩部長開始來研議相關的,不管是中央或地方來提供這個疫苗能量配送的服務,這部分相信部長應該在部內開始做相關措施的研討,不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14601.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14618.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
今天要請教的是我們知道目前有一些疫苗如果出現問題的話他可能就需要做賠償尤其是公費疫苗我們再來看到113年一共有699件是需要做公費疫苗的賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14620.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14640.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
這個賠償裡面有幾個部分其實可以透過一些制度上或者是好的一個設計模式來減少這樣的錯誤包括重複接種 接種間隔時間不足還有施打與非計畫的實施對象這六八九的稿件裡面就有416件其實是可以透過好的資料串接 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14641.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14669.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
你如果主要用好血才有可能說一個人去做兩遍也有可能說你不是要煮的人要你自己來煮這根本不應該讓它發生啊這不然我們不知道有什麼好的辦法讓這個資料的串接不管是透過現有的健保資料庫也好或者是目前的疾管署的資料裡面要讓它串接比較好血不要讓這樣的錯誤重複發生部長這邊有什麼好的方法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14671.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14671.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
我... |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14673.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14699.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
我也當過很久的醫事公會,包括台北市醫事公會理事長,我覺得我也聽到很多的醫院跟特別是診所在資料上的一個藉階的必要性那其實衛福部在機關署從110年已經全面推動核A的醫療院所,我們用API藉階的模式進行HIDS跟NIDS,就是醫療資訊體系跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14702.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14730.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
全國疫防接種資訊管理系統的一個自動交換查詢跟核對修正那到113年已經全國有3200家大概有效的參與可以在24小時裡面就是完成這樣的一個上傳所以那個降低了70%以上的接種勿施所以我想這個部分我們會讓它一直進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14731.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14756.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
因為起碼這可以進步就可以減少這方面的困擾避免我們基層的診所在參與的時候不僅付出他的勞力還要被扣款還是還要受到處罰我想也拜託各縣市的醫師公會如果了解一下會員有困難跟當地的縣市衛生局 縣市衛生局其實都很 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14757.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14762.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
很熱心來幫忙處理那跟我們疾管署這邊一起來解決這六百九十九千塊裡面要做造價賠償原價賠償你自己租的金額是四百幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14772.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14795.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
六百九十九千要四百幾萬,表示說有一些的賠償可能是有一些可以在討論的地方,我們現在只分兩種一個就是無需賠償,不然就是要原價賠償那你中間有一個,有可能說什麼經營之下你要造價賠償,什麼資本什麼經營你就只需要賠償一半啊或者是幾個百分比,這部分可能也要麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14798.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14817.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
所以最難就是針對這部分來改善這個疫苗配套強化基層參與有三個部分就是能量配送還有這個有效資料串接疫苗處置費我們也知道其實很辛苦出一百塊事實上成本是四百幾塊這個如何能夠讓這個參與者包括基層診所可以用心 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14822.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14848.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
而且能夠努力的來參與,是不是讓一個月裡面有個書面報告這幾點我們都會來努力,而且在一個月內提出書面報告好,謝謝王委員,謝謝部長你的意思是,疫苗要自己保管,風太天天疫苗失效了,要再賠錢要看外部可以專案給你,那稍微稍微稍微 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14852.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14865.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
好,謝謝昭偉還有王偉,我想這個部分我們來瞭解如果天災的話,我們會給他無息賠償,集團署說無息賠償無息賠償,這樣可以,好謝謝部長來最後一個陳穎,快點喔,要結束了,要換演習了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14883.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14888.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
好 謝謝主席 麻煩請我們食藥署江署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14901.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
14927.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
在你們所屬業務裡面有一個包裝醬油製程的標示規定目前醬油的標示規定大概也分成這幾類有速成醬油、水解醬油、混合調和醬油跟釀造醬油我想要請教就是說在這四種類別的醬油裡面哪一種類別的醬油售價是最高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
14931.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
14931.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
鮑爾元 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
14933.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
14961.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
很久沒有買醬油猜得好那個應該是釀造醬油因為是最傳統的古法你真的蠻聰明的真的確實是這個釀造的醬油價格是最高的因為雖然這幾種醬油它的這個原料都相同但是釀造的時間最長時間就是金錢所以釀造醬油是售價最高的那那我再請教你你那麼聰明再猜猜看 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
14962.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
14979.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
在這四個類別裡面在市面上哪一個有一個類別已經是不存在的你知道是哪個類別嗎我猜是右下角的速成是不是還是速成醬油猜一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
14980.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15004.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
好對果然能夠當食藥署署長頭腦還是不簡單確實這個速成醬油在市面上是已經不存在很久的事情那現在我要請教你這麼聰明的食藥署署長那請問既然已經不存在的類別為什麼你們類別裡面現在還存在這樣子的一個分類 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15007.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15021.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
你要繼續保存呢還是要這個已經不存在的這個我回去檢討一下他的必要性之後再跟委員做進一步報告好你那麼聰明應該知道要怎麼做啦就已經沒有了好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15023.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15049.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
再來過去這個衛福部在109年曾經有一項這個醬油產品監測委託辦理計畫雖然當時您不是食藥署署長但是這份報告呢對於現階段的這個包裝醬油製程的這個標示規範規定有很重要的參考價值我想了解就是說你們後來有沒有新的執行計畫或報告出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15053.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15070.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
這個計畫之後是沒有再進行另外的計畫那就是維持原來的就沒有新的嘛我記得說這份報告裡面其實我們主要是要解決是否以果醣酸低於0.1%作為標示釀造醬油的依據那檢測結果我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15078.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15100.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
在108件我们国产的酿造酱油里面全部都没有检测到果糖酸出来那29件国外输入的样本27件未检出那有一件是低于0.1%那只有一件是超标的 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15101.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15119.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
這樣的結果顯示出我們台灣自己生產的釀造醬油都很棒都沒有問題那可是呢如果因此我們這樣去要求這些釀造醬油廠商必須要自己去標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15119.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15143.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
說他們都沒有含沒有這個果糖酸的這個含量或者是果糖酸低於0.1%那除了這個增加這個檢測的成本之外呢其他他們這個標示也都要全部都改我想這個是一個不太合理的一個要求那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15144.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15167.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
通常要人家主動證明沒有的東西就好像一個無罪的人要證明自己的清白我想一般大家都無罪推論啦那有罪你就是要去提出證據來嘛所以我想這樣的行政規定我不曉得合不合理我不知道這個署長看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15169.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15186.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
就果醣酸因為我看這個圖表因為之前同仁們在這個報告裡面有特別跟我報告過那因為食品安全還是以科學分析的基礎如果我管制上面用0.1它能夠涵蓋的解釋度大概是92% |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15188.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15211.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
所以造成了一些會有一些些影響雖然說我們國內的醬油是0.1%的話釀造醬油的確都是符合的但是如果是這樣切下去就會產生一個效果我想後續接下來我們會我想這個已經開始慢慢要進入到去我們會去討論到這個靈敏度跟那個特異度的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15213.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15240.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
我想在這份報告就是另外的結果也有顯示就是說有另外兩種的這個水解跟調和醬油我們再繼續看29個水解醬油有8個果醣酸未檢出或低於0.1%那29個調和醬油有10個未檢出或低於0.1%所以如果以果醣酸作為標示釀造醬油的關鍵指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15243.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15249.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
那我們看18個水解跟調和醬油可不可以標示為釀造醬油 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15251.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15276.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
因為這個數據這樣子顯示我們反過來講那如果他可以標示如果規定是這樣那他標示了釀造醬油這個價格馬上就翻倍了剛剛署長馬上就猜說釀造醬油應該是最貴的現在大家都知道了那本來或許這些業者也沒有想要標示為這個釀造醬油的意圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15278.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15305.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
但是如果你們強制做了這樣的規定之後呢漏洞出來了他們反而可以就是說違反規定就是讓價格翻倍也會變成是沒有違規的問題了我在這裡特別提出這樣子的推論不知道署長認不認同委員這個講得非常非常精準因為就我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15306.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15321.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
市場的稽查的時候如果以這個標準去當稽查那的確他一線切下來他小於0.1如果他標示說他是釀造的我們很難去做後續判斷他真的釀造或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15322.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15339.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
不是随机好所以我现在特别点出这样子的问题那看来食药署都有弄懂了那我想问题的本质在于没有的你们要人家自己去证明自己没有那 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15340.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15369.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
卻反而開了一扇門讓他們讓這些就是說可能或許未來變成有機會不違規的去做不正確的標示那我想就是說我也是有點想不通啦所以說這樣子去改變醬油的標示那我不曉得這個意義到底在哪裡除了增加成本給出模糊的空間以外到底還有什麼就是說有利於民眾的好處 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15370.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15398.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
有嗎目前我們針對這個議題其實持續在研議也邀請一些專家委員來協助我們去做該如何去的確果醣酸單一的很困難當作是一個判斷因為醬油我們每天每天這麼多人在吃那現在是這樣我舉個例子好了就像早期這個紅標米酒的原料它也 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15399.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15419.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
應該不是早期啦我是說紅標米酒的原料它也有參入這個食品級的鹽酸那經過發酵蒸餾之後它就完全就去除了難道我們也一樣要要求紅標米酒變成鹽酸米酒嗎你家變成鹽酸米酒我想大家看了這個字眼應該都不敢買了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15420.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15448.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
那在特別在監察院110年8月23號的函文裡面這個有特別提醒你們說在把這個食品安全衛生管理法第28條第一項規定食品標示不得有不實誇張或異生誤解之情形所以我拿監察院特別再提醒你們的這個條文再提醒你們一次因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15449.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15468.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
在這個水解過程中使用鹽酸那醬油販售成為商品之後它也就都沒有鹽酸了那還要要求廠商來標示說鹽酸水解醬油或者酸水解醬油我覺得這個是讓民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15472.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15496.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
看了會卻步的事情所以這樣子的要求其實是很擾民的啦那我不知道就是說署長你新上任你就大力要來支持這樣子的一個規定還是說你有什麼樣比較合理的一個想法跟看法因為我很怕你們被逼著違法耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15497.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15521.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
報告委員這邊因為不管我們的鹽酸或者我們之前其他的叫做氫鹽也就是酸鹼平衡裡面的氫氧化鈉都是所謂的加工注劑這加工注劑在國際間的規範在我們在標示的部分其實是沒有強制這樣子的標示那要因為已經的確是吳委員所說的化學反應之後最後它其實是沒有特別鹽酸的存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15522.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15548.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
沒有就不用再要求人家寫了吧我想本席是絕對要會支持就是說我們要有正確的標示還有關鍵指標建立那既然 署長你又是這個台大的這個醫學院的教授好的指標必須要同時要符合這個我剛剛前面講的靈敏度跟他的特異度都要高同時都要高那所以這份報告在你們沒有新的數據出來之前他 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15549.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15563.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
我們現在有的也就是一個最新的參考數據所以結果是證明說以果醣酸當釀造醬油的關鍵判定指標它是存在有這個特異度高靈敏度不到七成的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15564.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15585.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
好所以我想今天整個質詢我必須點出這個那全世界也都沒有其他國家有做這樣的規定所以除非你們有最新的數據支持不然我們要貿然去改變這樣的一個標示一定要有很明確的目的跟依據不然你們就是為了管制而管制了嗎那 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15586.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15603.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
除了增加業者的成本那也就是說業者提高了這個醬油的價格然後到頭來最後傷害的還是我們民眾的荷包甚至影響到物價上揚所以我最後請你們就是說醬油製造為釀造醬油以果醣酸為標示重新檢討那並於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15611.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15621.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
就是說我讓你們有很長的時間六個月一年都可以你們就是好好研究然後提出報告之後再來做這個定論好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15622.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15641.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
好 謝謝委員 我們待會去進一步的研究分析 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝陳委員 謝謝署長本次會議診斷全部結束委員陳永康 楊耀 廖瑋祥 盧憲一所提書面執行列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15643.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
15659.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
現在做以下宣告 報告局勤勞完畢委員實行未及答覆或請補充資料者相關機關以兩週內以書面答覆委員另行要求者從期鎖定本日會議到此結束 現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
15662.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
15662.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
謝謝大家 |