| IVOD_ID |
168141 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168141 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-01T11:37:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-01T11:48:52+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:42 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c537cbfddc74f2bc6bad885c3c28ba2b2afe627a357cd2d7f6367c9c5a82321895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
沈伯洋 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:37:10 - 11:48:52 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席我先請經濟部次長請經濟部次長好 次長好那這個其實跟我之前這個案件有點類似我記得之前在經濟委員會的時候有問過淘寶等等相關的那時候有得到一些答覆後續也有做一些處理那這一次我想問的是瑞幸咖啡 |
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就是說因為目前按照這個瑞幸咖啡的這個說法就是經濟部也有講說他說這個是這個若是透過代理商進入台灣屬於這種商業行為那就沒有辦法去用投審會來處理那但是到底是怎樣這個我現在還不是很清楚是不是有可能請次長稍微說明一下現在瑞幸咖啡的狀況 |
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謝謝委員關心瑞幸咖啡它是之前有透過在台灣的公司我應該這樣講台灣的有一家公司有在申請公司的設立我們也同意了後來台灣的這家公司就有表達它希望能夠代理 |
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所以比較像是代理這條路所以我們跟這家台灣的公司有一直保持密切的聯絡因為對於這家台灣公司跟新加坡商他之間的關係到底是什麼樣子而且他們也有簽訂相關的合約所以我們現在還在繼續的了解中他們的契約的內容非常的多所以我們在逐項的在了解 |
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這個要麻煩經濟部,因為畢竟就是雖然他說是咖啡,但比如說像瑞幸咖啡在中國他有APP嘛那就算沒有APP,比如說你要加入他的會員,他會員也會有台灣人的資料所以無論如何他一定會有跟我們國人的隱私要如何保障的問題那如果說單純的中資,其實投審會來處理什麼之類這個我覺得目前來講我們的機制已經越來越完善 |
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128.186 |
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但如果是按照就像剛剛您講這個如果是用代理的方式這個相關的這個規範這個審查當然可以有內規但是我們顯得法律有沒有不足的地方就是有沒有可能就是需要更多的法源才有讓經濟部有辦法處理像類似像這樣的事物 |
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資安的部分個資的部分也是我們非常的關心所以我們也有在詢問台灣的這家公司到底他跟新加坡商有談到是否會仿效這個瑞幸在中國的使用APP的部分我們還在等台灣的這家公司給我們回覆資安絕對是我們要資安等於國安所以這個部分還有個資的部分這是一定我們會很堅持的 |
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嗯哼因為這個齁就是說真的就是說齁這個就我之後還會繼續再追這一題啦齁那但是我覺得像你說TikTok他也是說他在新加坡但我們背後我們也都知道他的自己的跳動其實在後面是佔有實質的這個影響力那我現在看他如果說他在台灣不管他的Logo啊什麼之類如果他跟中國都是一樣的那等於又說欸他用一個新加坡然後又說他要帶然後又從台灣來走代理但是問題是他背後很有可能就還是中國 |
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203.331 |
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221.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那所以這個部分呢除了我們要釐清有沒有中國以外它的隱私要怎麼保障這兩個層次我們可能都要來釐清那這個之後呢可能再到這個經濟委員會或有時候到辦公室我們再來繼續持續追這件事情我覺得國人的隱私要保護這真的非常的重要是那謝謝那我覺得之前那個主席我要請外交部謝謝 請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
229.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
242.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
部長好我相信今天很多人都是要問霸凌相關的這個事情新聞報導什麼等等之類的這個我待會晚一點再說因為我覺得有幾件比較重要的事情我想先問第一個就是這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
246.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
272.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個卡麥隆就是說現在這一個我剛看前面的委員有提到就是說因為我們缺席這一個WTO的這一個部長會議那確實啦這怎麼看都是一個中國的施壓那我認為啦就是說在過往我們在這個2758號其實也是打了漂亮的一仗那現在呢中國還是持續用這樣的一個方式去矮化台灣的一個國格目前外交部對此事的應對是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
273.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
293.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
對這事情就是說我們當然積極爭取那也要有堅定的立場但是我們也要預防未來再發生就這個部分因為大家在交涉的過程包括WTO的秘書處還有包括各國都其實表達關切但是柯麥隆他就是吃了剩腿鐵了心因為你要入境 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
295.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
312.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你必須要經過他的海關啊那好那後來要補救嘛發個邀請函至少讓我們有一個對不對符合我們身份的可是這個時候就錯誤百出所以時間一直在過所以我們的方式就是我們把資料先送進去包括我們的書面的所有的報告我們的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
312.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
339.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那也表達抗議然後也要求未來包括秘書處都要針對申請主辦國必須承諾不能夠違反相關規定所以有的時候危機也是轉機我們把它轉為未來不會再發生的一個契機所以這件事情的處理我們是確實是有整體上考慮到我們的目標然後我們的攻防那最後這個結果當然我們也表達抗議不能接受可是我們讓它以後不會再發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
341.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
360.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我覺得這件事情我認為是處理的好就是說以這件事情來講我們外交部絕對不能自私立場那你看這個標題這個自由社會標題有說外交部說這個一中妙論誤導國際社會那我現在我發現就是當然一中妙論就是最主要是中國在傳遞這個一中妙論但我看在台灣講一中妙論的人也不少 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
361.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
377.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就是說這一個他說這個全球都挺一中這是鄭麗文說的那他講這一個所謂的全球我就來看這一個新加坡這邊的這個非營利組織這個學者他就有講他說去整理各國的文件他就放些這個所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
378.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
397.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個所謂的一中原則然後呢一個中國的政策這兩個的差異他發現在各國的文件裡面真正有recognize說這一個中國是唯一的合法政府而且台灣把台灣放在中國的一部分根本就不是他們常常宣稱的一百八十幾國而是五十一國而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
398.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以這一個論述其實很重要就是說2758號那一次的戰役我剛剛前面有提到我們把這個法律的論述裁穩而且很多國家站在我們這一邊嘛那現在我們是又再提出在外交上對方講的這個一中論述有問題然後也不是每一個國家都同意而且看起來是很多國家並沒有採取這個立場對 所以這個有點像假訊息啦所謂的什麼一中是全球共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
440.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
有些國家跟中共建交的時候都還沒有二七五八號決議而且有些國家其實就是沒有一中政策不要講一中原則很多的國家包括G7裡面也有甚至有些國家說那你要有一個中國你要有一個印度政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
441.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
464.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那對台灣來講我們在國際上就避免跟一中有什麼牽扯不管什麼一中政策很容易變成一公原則這也是為什麼現在國際包括G7的這些首長會議都宣布的時候他們在談都不談不太用一中因為會被扭曲你沒講的話中共都把你放進你的嘴巴了何況你去講的一中然後你接的是政策他接的是原則所以日方 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
464.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
490.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
比如說或像英國或像這些其實很多包括印度等其實大家都不願意順從中共那樣子扭曲因為他會得寸進尺他會無中生有然後最後就用這個東西來給你霸凌然後因為他說實在他是像流氓一樣的用作法很多人沒有不想要跟他整天在爭吵所以就導致他到全球南方所以這51個國家其實很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
493.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
502.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
根本就不瞭解什麼一中兩中三中啊都完全不瞭解了就在你中國去講啦就是連這五十一個都很多事加起來你就給他好處啦那些國家你就替我寫就好了所以不能夠用什麼一個中國這個什麼什麼東西是國際的共識這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
510.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
536.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
沒有這個事情對 所以我覺得因為這是2758他們現在發現越來越多國家反對他又又回來要講這個所謂的一中那一中我們在應對的方式剛剛部長其實我覺得講得非常的清楚但我覺得國內真的是很多人會去應和這樣的論述那就拜託我們這樣的論述我們是要開展就是我們對於這件事情的外交的方式我跟委員補充一下九二共識這個字眼是什麼出來的兩千年嘛第一次政壤輪替嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
537.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
556.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那1992年有講92公司嗎 沒有2758號決議最近跑出來嘛就是因為中共的一中嘛所以大家都要去反制所以美國的國務院就有四點立場然後現在所有的國家包括IPEC很多的這個議會都通過就是在否定中共他用這一種所謂的認知作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
557.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
574.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
其實是扭曲說用法律戰來賦予他武力犯台的基礎跟壓縮我們的國際空間所以為什麼很多國家一開始就說你們台灣一直在講說不要去支持2758決議是什麼東西很多國家根本不知道然後結果歐洲議會那些議員去看之後發現150個字裡面沒有出現台灣所以這是一個假的東西然後稻草人然後可以講久了變成 謊話說100遍變真的嗎其實這只要一個氣球你只要一個針把它戳破 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
586.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
614.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
大家了解之後可是因為全球南方很多國家沒機會了解因為他就服從中國嘛我們台灣不能去服從中國真的我們要刺破對方的謊言他有一個前提就是我們還是要趕快省總預算不然的話你那個那個針連買針的錢都沒有因為我們要刺破對方的技巧就國王的新衣沒有穿但是他一直國王說他有穿我們知道很多人就說你穿好漂亮久了他也覺得他是國王有穿新衣就是沒有穿衣服 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
616.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
644.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為時間到了那接下來就是說今天很多人在關心這個霸凌的問題那我剛剛因為前面大家已經提很多我就不重複那我剛剛有聽到部長應該是有講到就是說當然新聞報導是新聞報導新聞報導我們要去驗證但是雖然還沒有直接聽到有申訴但就算沒有申訴是不是也會做主動的調查對我們已經有要求了解然後我們人事處也在這個進行了解中OK我覺得這個反應很重要就是說我們不是說要申訴我們就要主動調查我們不容許霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
646.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
670.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們期待就是說如果有申訴我們辦理沒有申訴我們要去了解因為大家在關心了所以我也是有我有得到初步就是針對這個事情的回應那委員們希望說那個余大使他有對外的說明我們也會就請他應該要對外有所說明那這個就是因為有時候有一些批評難免會 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
672.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
699.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
不斷的隱身啦比如說我提到就是外面講到所謂換了20個這個清潔工這個是20個去哪裡找啊但我不能因為這樣子說人家的質疑我們不去釐清我覺得如果有都改進對不對沒有的話我們要盡快讓國人知道啦我覺得這才是最重要的事情我覺得作為政府的官員我們就是要讓國人知道現在政府做了哪些進度違和我認為這是重要的好時間到了謝謝部長謝謝主席 |