| IVOD_ID |
16811 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16811 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-14T08:30:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-14T17:00:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
08:29:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609b1b0c9928ee58d4bad9f551ce5fa921f80a0af5ed963d0f5bb23a620fdfca0545ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議（事由：總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:15 - 17:00:00 |
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報告全院委員會現在繼續開會今天分別審查司法院大法官被提名人陳慈揚詹振榮之資格及是否事任相關事項分別由每位被提名人說明十分鐘後再進行委員詢問每位委員詢答時間二十分鐘才疑問疑答方式進行輪到詢問委員如不在場視為棄權現在先 |
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1843.938 |
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審查被提名人陳慈揚之資格相關事項請被提名人陳慈揚先生說明時間為10分鐘 |
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主席各位委員各位女士各位先生大家早安大家好我是國立台北大學法律系教授陳慈揚很榮幸有機會到大院報告本人學經歷及未來擔任司法院大法官之職權行使以供大院審查參酌一 |
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家庭背景,本人出生於民國54年,台南市人,父母均已過世,配偶為郭麗珍教授、嘉義縣人,目前任教於國立台北教育大學文教法律研究所,並育有一子一女。學經歷及學術專長, |
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1908.891 |
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自民國78年前往德國盧爾大學深造追隨當代憲法及環境法大師Hans Dieter Jagers |
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1948.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
教授攻讀法學博士學位博士論文研究主題為內涵於中華民國台灣憲法及德國基本法之實質修憲權界限取得博士學位後及返國任教於母校國立中心大學法商學院法律學系現改制為國立台北大學從事憲法、行政法及環境法等教學及研究工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1949.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1973.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
研究領域分別在憲法、行政法及環境法等方面近來主要著作有基本權核心理論之實證化及其難題憲法規範性與憲政現實性人權保障與權力制衡憲政體制與法治國家21世紀憲法國家之新挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1974.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1997.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
在行政法領域有行政法總論、主編行政法實例演習一至三冊在環境法領域有環境法總論、合作原則之具體化廢棄物質循環清理法治之研究以及在簡歷資料當中所附之學術期刊及會議論文 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1998.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2020.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
在國際學術交流擴展上,自回國任教以後就密切地跟德、法、歐盟及美、日、韓等國建立雙邊及多邊的工法學及環境法學的學術合作及國際研討參與公共行政及工作經驗研究與貢獻 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2022.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2051.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
在學校行政方面自民國96年11月起本人擔任國立台北大學法律學院公法研究中心主任負責規劃推動公法學資研究發展自民國97年8月1日起應侯崇文校長之邀請擔任國立台北大學主任秘書一職協助推動校務行政並舉辦第一次的校務評鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2052.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2077.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
社會服務方面本人常年擔任行政院、司法院、考試院、監察院、內政部及人事行政總署等院部術院審議委員會委員及法規委員會委員台北市人權諮詢委員會委員、高雄市法規委員會委員台南市及新北市術院審議委員會委員等 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2079.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2096.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
為輔助弱勢亦常年擔任法律輔助基金會輔助案件審議之副審委員積極為需要專業法律事務協助而又無力負擔訴訟費用及律師報仇之人民予以制度性的援助 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2100.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2127.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
為維護憲法所保障之訴訟權及平等權等基本人權就維護憲政體制與保障人權也擔任司法院大法官4至445號在解釋之前召開的憲法法庭的鑑定報告人闡述集會遊行法在當時已經與憲政現實不相符合且有侵害人權之餘此鑑解亦為司法院第445號 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2128.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2153.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
解釋所肯認是 擔任考試委員參與考選輪才及建立文官制度106年經蔡前總統提名立法院同意擔任考試院第十二屆考試委員首先推動縣市副局處首長及科長的職等提升以留住公務人才其次 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2153.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2174.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
推動制定公務人員退休之前撫恤法政務人員退職撫恤條例及相關法規在退撫三法送立法院審議時立法院對考試院通過這部分條文有不同意見最後依立法院修正條文通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2175.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2190.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
再來與行政院司法院共同推動司法改革有關司法官及律師合一考試之政策及修法同時參與公務人員考機法之修正公務人員職主職系等修訂決策 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2192.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2209.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
109年再度被提名為第十三屆考試委員並經立法院同意在任內代表考試院擔任院內司改國事會第四小組決議之司法官及律師等多合一的國家考試改革小組召集人 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2211.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2224.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
並為考試院、司法院及行政院三院協調會之考試院代表之一111年底完成法律專業人員資格及任用條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2225.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2238.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
於110年初送立法院審議透過參與考試院行政院及司法院憲政機關之實際運作對憲政實務有深入的體悟與驗證同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2241.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2258.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
努力推動公務人員退府新制因應司法院4-785號就解釋參與考公務員保障法及公務員服務法之修訂還有高普考科檢科等政策決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2259.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2281.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
總言之本人在兩任考試委員任內推動考試院相關政務不遺餘力同時亦擔任司法官暨律師特考的典事委員長以及多項考試之典事委員長典事委員及照理及人等為國家輪才而努力最後於113年第13屆考試委員任滿期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2286.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2307.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
考試院考量到金門、馬祖及澎湖等離島留才不易推動離島課考以留住各離島之公務人才且為因應第十四屆考試院尚未組成協助數萬名考生得以順利應試以保障考生權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2308.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2326.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
在擔任考試委員期間遵守憲法第88條規定考試委員須超出黨派以外依據法律獨立行使職權維護國家考試之公平及公正保障考生權益並確保行政中立 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2327.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2344.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
同時參與考試院、行政院及司法院共同研議法律專業人員資格及任用條例法律草案之相關會議對憲政體制有豐碩實務經驗更有助於大法官職權之行使 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2345.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2365.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
五、擔任大法官之自我期許。大法官職權主要在審理法規範憲法審查、裁判憲法審查、機關爭議、總統、副總統彈劾、政黨違憲解散、地方自治保障以及統一解釋法律及命令等案件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2366.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2386.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
個人長年來苦心鑽研憲法之學禮並密切關注我國憲政之發展及憲法人權保障在行政法學及實務之實踐同時曾參與考試院、行政院及司法院憲政機關之運作期許能更進一步將理論與實務結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2389.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2413.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
榮獲有幸能夠擔任憲法守護者之職務並遵守憲法第八十條之規定超出黨派之外依據法律獨立審判不受任何干涉來捍衛多元的自由民主憲政秩序奉獻自己綿薄之心力以上報告謝謝聆聽敬請不吝指正 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2423.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2449.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 謝謝被提名人之說明現在進行委員詢問首先請陳委員育貞詢問謝謝主席有請我們這個陳教授被提名人請被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2459.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2483.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在看這個總統府送過來的這個簡歷還有您剛剛的這個口頭自傳的報告裡頭本席覺得您是一位這個理論與這個實務經驗兼具的是我們這個法學界法律界的一時之選那在看著你的簡歷後我想這是您第三次到這個立法院來接受這個被提名就是同意權的行使對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2491.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2510.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們先來看看您過往的成績單2017年的時候蔡總統提名您擔任第十二屆考試委員那時候提名的新聞稿有提到為了配合年金改革的步伐多項重要年金改革的方案要交由考試院研擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2511.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2530.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
到了2020年5月的時候再度提名您擔任考試院第13屆考試委員裡面提到的是說您原來在12屆的考試委員任內有推動年改及相關考學制度的研議是熟悉考試院職人考量續任有助於經驗傳承 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2532.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2558.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這是前兩次提名的相關的理由第一 這一次我們賴總統提名您擔任司法院大法官這一次的新聞稿是說您擔任考試委員的時候對推動年金改革退府新制左右貢獻這個是這次的提名所以您在自傳中也有提到說您擔任考試委員的時候是以推動年金改革為己任 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2560.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2584.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那請問您擔任考試委員的時候就是已經就是那個時候您有完成當時蔡總統交付的任務嗎您認為呢報告委員基本上年金改革是考試院有幾任的院長都有這樣子的一個期待只是各黨針對部分的意見不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2584.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2609.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
譬如說所得替代率啦或者相關的一些配套措施所以基本上年輕改革這件事是應該在當時因為當時還沒有民眾黨所以在是國民黨跟民進黨在黨團都或者是立法院跟都共同的共識在這種情形之下呢我覺得我有部分達成有部分沒有達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2610.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2633.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那您的這個您的自傳裡頭也有提到齁這個對立法院齁就這個有關年金改革這個退伏三法齁這個對考試院通過的部分立法院對考試院通過的部分條件有不同意見最後依立法院修正條文通過這就是您剛剛解釋的嘛所以您在考試院的院會裡頭齁在考試院第十二屆一百三十六次會議裡頭齁您這個捍衛您當時的說法是這個有書寫的齁這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2638.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2664.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
民主國家所有重要事項必須經由國會做最後決議因此立法過程中所以部長身為考試院的全序部長但是對於立法院最後決議不僅全序部長要尊重本院議欄就是考試院所以您是相當尊重這個立法院我們國會的這個立法權聽起來是這樣子是沒錯那第137次會議您也有提到在提到這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2667.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2692.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
從年改迄今很多法案都是透過立法院提案通過這是立法委員的限定執掌造成略過其他憲政機關權責的問題形式上無法苛責行政院此為立法委員的行為屬於目前責任政治及政黨政治運作的結果這些都是您說過的是所以在擔任考試委員期間您相當尊重立法院的立法行政權尊重國會的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2694.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2698.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
您 請問 現在是抱持同樣的想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2700.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2724.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
報告委員 我的想法一貫不只是從考試委員 從以前擔任學者基本上就認為立法院是最高民意機關 應該要予以尊重很好 那我們期許您擔任大法官一樣有這樣的風格那我想請教您幾個議題我們立法院之前三讀通過提高警消海巡退休所得替代率 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2725.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2734.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個您知道有三讀通過那請問對於這個所得替代這個您是會尊重我們立法院所通過的這個立法者形成的這個空間還是會認為說連改不應該走回頭路 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2738.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2765.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
如果作為一個被提名人的話我們尊重我絕對尊重立法院所做的這樣子的一個立法通過但是中間相關的過程當然是由立法院內部形成的這個共識所做成的已經共識了 三讀已經通過了所以會尊重立法院的這個職權尊重OK 好 謝謝您那這個這是錦霄這個 錦霄的這個部分前面這個是錦霄海巡 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2765.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2789.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那還沒有修改的也有可能修改是我們公教人員所呼籲的要停砍退休金彈性調整所得替代率這個七大公教團體要說希望要停砍所得替代率這個部分退休金的這個部分那如果到時候這個部分在經過立法院的修改又三讀通過了這個所得替代率又有所改變的時候請問您到時候會尊重立法院立法者的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2790.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2795.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
立法形成過程就尊重我們國會的這個權利呢還是還是會認為說不應該這個走回頭路 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2798.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2825.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
基本上在憲法秩序下依據憲法相關的規定跟憲法價值內容我是尊重立法院的所以不管您是擔任學者或是以後擔任這個大法官的話您都會這個尊重立法院所三讀通過這個法律案嗎是就是在憲法價值秩序內尊重立法院好 那想請教齁這個我們上個禮拜剛剛通過一個普發現金條例對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2827.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2845.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
是 知道 普發現金一萬元我相關的政黨人士說增加預算有違憲爭議這個府院局採訪人員有違憲爭議因為憲法規定立法院審查預算不得為審查預算不得為增加支出制提議這個當初立法院送出來行政院送出來是1100現在這是特別條例說增加1350 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2847.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2874.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那請問您是否認為立法委員可以提法律案為實質增加預算支出的提議並不違反憲法第七十條的規定因為我們現在聽到普遍很多有一些這個府院相關一些或者學者有提到說這次通過這個普發一萬元是違反這個憲法第七十條的這個規定那我想請問您認為說我們立法院立法委員可不可以提出法律案 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2875.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2902.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
做這個失智增加預算增加的這個提議然後沒有違反憲法第70條的規定報告委員法律見解如何報告委員因為在520號解釋曾經也有過立法院認為這是通過的法律案但是呢有可能在520號失智520號是有關核四的問題那當時呢大法官當時行政院或立法院也都提到可能是重大政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2904.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2927.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
因為是法律案跟或者是重大政策或預算案有爭執的時候大法官520號解釋就提供一個解決的方法就是憲法裡面有關行政立法互動的一個政治爭議的解決模式應該在這個憲法框架裡面行政跟立法可以去做這個框架的解決至於怎麼解決尊重大院跟行政院的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2928.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2946.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那現在就是 您回答很多 但是沒有回答到這個問題這個行政院 如果行政院有認為這是違反憲法第70條規定 這個腐發先進意外但是立法院通過了 如果您以後是要解釋當那個大法官 是要解釋憲法那對於這個您明確的解釋是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2947.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2961.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
報告委員 剛才已經跟委員你講了很多 你覺得有違反嗎就告訴我有沒有違反就好基本上這是兩院之間有沒有違反憲法第七十條的規定中間中間這個都可以 我會讀啊但是有沒有違反憲法第七十條的規定這個普發現金一萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2964.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2986.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
因為法院主張是預算 法律案然後行政院認為這是預算案行政院認為是預算案嗎行政院認為是法律裡面有涉及到實質的預算編列那你認為這個是法律案那請問這個是法律案還是預算案 這個特別條例這個就是有爭議 行政立法有爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2987.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3016.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
對,有爭議謝謝教授,我知道您的答案,您認為有爭議你說行政院是預算案,我們認為是法律案我們認為是法律案,因為是特別條例行政院是認為這是涉及預算案但是你身為大法官的被提名,你認為說這個是有爭議的有爭議的,好,OK,好,來你認為國會在行使預決權的時候比如預算,就是總預算總預算這種預算有沒有積極引導政府政策的作用 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3017.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3024.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
呃 有積極 有有沒有是有嘛齁所以立法院在通過預算的時候也有積極引導政府預算的作用嗎齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3025.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3052.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
導政 但是憲法70條有明文規定因為剛才委員是講預算所以我才會講到說70條那法律案的話70條是預算嘛是法律案嘛那是對說這是預算還是法律案你認為也有爭議兩院有爭議司法院怎麼認為呢司法院520號就曾經有做過解釋可以循憲法徵修條文第三條有關兩院的政治爭議解決模式去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3053.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3075.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
陳教授 剛剛您在提到連改的時候我是蠻肯定的因為您說您會尊重立法院的立法形成權就是跟您以前的學說一以貫之就是說即便您擔任大法官還是保有原來擔任教授的風骨但是現在在提到憲法70條這一條的時候您的說法似乎跟您當初擔任學者的時候不大一樣我想請教您1996有一篇 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3079.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3086.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
您看一下喔 平息大法官4日391號解釋文這一個我沒有看到你的簡歷 沒有在你的簡歷裡頭啊是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3089.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3105.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這篇文章怎麼沒有在你的簡歷裡頭?有啊,有在我的簡歷裡頭簡歷它可能沒有附上來但是我這篇文章是在剛才所報告的專書論文集裡面專書論文裡頭,但是我們上去搜尋上網去搜尋,上網搜尋是沒有辦法讓公眾來閱讀是沒有公開嗎?有公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3113.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3140.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我們上網搜尋上網搜尋有應該書上如果報告委員那個書有可以在書局找得到要到書局如果上網因為上網搜尋是沒有說沒關係那我想請教您這篇文章您的陳述關聯您還記得嗎我記得我對於大法官4-391號的解釋對於他這個有些部分有不同的意見對您說的這一條裡頭您特別說的我來跟您 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3143.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3158.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
回憶一下這是您說過的話預算的度休政權僅限於否決或刪減預算此一見解過於狹隘不符合國會在預算預決形式上對行政權有優勢地位之本質 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3160.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3181.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
第二個 縱使立法院不在預算案中做成增加預算支出之決議亦可另提法律案為實質增加預算支出之決議這是您說過的話吧 沒錯吧所以說不管它是法律案 預算案上是不行但是行政課我們差別是他說它是預算案您的說法是 您以前當學者說法 您當學者說法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3183.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3200.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
縱使就是不在預算案題也可以另提法例案像這個特別條例就是法律案就算維新實質你還認為說可以實質增加預算支出之提議這是你的說法沒錯吧這是我當學者的說法你當學者的說法當法官想法會不一樣我跟委員報告一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3201.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3230.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
還有下一句因此憲法第七十條對立法院審議預算預決權的限制規定實質上並未具有重大意義你覺得七十條是沒有重大意義的國會在行使預算預決權時亦有其積極引導政府政策之作用七十條沒有提到 這都是你說的話經由國會地勤一來選 傳播媒體監督也可以達到實質監控立法院行使預算審查決議權所以七十條可以做適度的鬆綁這都是您之前擔任寫者的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3232.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3237.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
但是報告文70條是憲法規定修法是要大院的職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3240.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3266.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我們不在說修那個法我們在說您當時對這個立法院和立法權和行政權說這個國會有這個優勢嘛報告委員我可不可以報告兩點第一個70條我說要修但是是大院的職權我現在不是要提要修我修的說在現在以昨天禮拜五剛剛通過的那個法那個法立案以後有沒有這個爭執啊對您以前的看法我是用您以前擔任學者時候的看法來跟您討論第二點我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3269.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3288.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
呃...呃...呃...貴黨黨員曾經有問卷要我們是不是能夠擔任大法官能夠基於獨立超人的立場脫離學者的想法以防衛自由民主憲政之權我沒有說我脫離我學者想法是一致的但是我基本上尊重大院的做法尊重大院的決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3292.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3305.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
就是尊重立法院的決議就對了所以覺得在這個我們跟這一次普發現金一萬塊的憲法您是還是跟您以前想法一樣嗎因為這個憲法行政院雖然說憲法70條但這不是適用憲法70條你還是覺得這個憲法我認為憲法70條可以修改但是是大院的職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3313.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3334.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
謝謝您啦至少我認為您在擔任這個學者的時候剛剛我問的連改的部分尊重立法院的立法權還有這個就是70條的這個部分憲法70條這個我們通過這個普發先進的法律案那個預算的跟行政想法不一樣立法權有優勢的這個地方您的想法應該是學術想法應該是沒有改變的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3335.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3347.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這一點跟您肯定那我再想跟您請教也是很重要的一點就是中央和地方財政權的劃分您一樣寫過一篇觀點是從我國實證憲法論中央與地方財政權的劃分你還記得你說過什麼嗎這個中央和地方財政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3352.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3375.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這垂直權力分立嘛來我來幫您整理一下您說過國家財政權在行使與分配上在核心性無言的情況下財政學者這個是財政學者和實務運作者的任務接著您又說到說這個財政學者可能劃分不公這個原則仍然符合憲法上所要求的軍權體制不公也不是法學可以解決的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3376.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3398.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
第三個你說這個可能會產生重中央忽略地方這種劃分方法讓地方有什麼參與群要思考憲政的問題所以這個結論就是說這個財政行使案分配是憲法決策和實務運作者我想實務的運作者應該指的就是立法院這邊是我們這邊的任務吧實務運作者我的看法是中央跟地方應該協力 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3399.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3425.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
然後第二個有關這個怎麼劃分比如說以前是中央比較多嘛那你認為這個雖然劃分不公啦不管中央多地方多因為中央可能多地方也可能多 劃分不公但是這個也不是法學可以解決的嘛這是您之前提到的所以這個不是法律可以解釋的嘛這個雖然可能會出現中央多或者我們這次修過以後地方多一點還是中央多但是這些都不是法學可以解決的要用財政學的用實務來做規劃嘛 沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3427.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3449.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以這根本就不是大法官可以解決的東西不是大法官可以解釋的東西所以這個財政訴訟案送到司法院憲法法庭的時候應該就是不是憲法法庭可以接受的案子因為這不是法學者可以解決的問題這是你以前的觀念你現在還是這樣的觀念嗎因為你認為中央和地方的財政官是立法委員的任務這沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3450.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3467.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
從民意來講要由中央跟地方協力來處理第二個再加上財政學者相關的看法再提出建議來讓中央跟地方協力來解決所以您之前認為眾矢劃分不公也不是法學可以解決現在還是這樣想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3469.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3487.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
因為財政的預算那些內容非常精算的部分所以這個不是法學可以解決的嘛但是如果專業的話可以補充的話由專業來補充由財政學者來處理但是這個東西如果要拿去釋憲財政說法去釋憲的話這就不能受理啊因為法學界並不能解決這個實務上這個財政這些問題嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3490.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3506.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
但是法院可以請鑑定人可以請鑑定人財政學的學者專家鑑定人如果大法官提名人數夠的時候這事件怎麼受理呢這不是法學可以解決問題你還是會不會是這樣的想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3507.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3532.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
是 但是可以由鑑定人才正因為時間很短 我現在再問一題因為您剛有特別提到我們離島我要特別跟您感謝但是我想請教您這一題您在那考試委員的時候109到113年發言次數比例分別是65 39 20就11次 20次 10次最後兩年是7次 7次是不是因為那時候年改任務已經了所以後來什麼業務都不大需要說了您後面兩年發言的這個次數相當的少只剩下7次 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3533.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3535.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
52場宴會裡頭您只發言了7次32場也只發言了7次是因為業務已經沒有了的關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3540.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3561.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
所以就沒有需要再關心其他的事情很多政務不是在院會裡面院會大概就是已經做了大家有共識的來做成解決那我想請問您剛剛所提到剛剛您在口頭報告我看書院報告沒有但口頭報告有特別提到有關離島的這個部分您知道我是來自離島金門就專門我們離島地區這個特考這個規劃這個考試院有開會吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3567.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3575.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
是那大家也都是有共識嘛對不對對 大家有共識在考試院第13屆第138次會議裡頭是其中有九位考試委員這個有 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3578.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3606.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
有八位考試委員發言支持或是發言建議,你知道嗎?是九位裡面有八位發言,哪一位沒有發言?報告委員,因為之前已經跟考選部溝通而且是我全力贊成的所以我認為基本上我已經贊成了,不需要...沒有,在這個離島特考裡頭因為您剛剛有說這是考試院,您的算是公積啦但在這個離島這個特考的這個業務裡頭,唯一九位考試委員唯一沒有發言是我們陳子洋教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3607.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3622.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
你是對我們離島失誤因為我們贊成所以不用發言是吧報告委員委員的政治歷練非常的豐厚沒有知道很多都是事前大家的溝通協調所以其他八個發言都是因為不贊成所以來協調是嗎不是不是不是是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3622.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3646.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我在很多問題都在第一屆都已經全部說過了不希望浪費院會的時間所以九位委員有八位委員發言有點浪費時間九位只有您沒有發言耶您就跟我說您剛才在口頭包特別跟我說九位委員裡面有兩位是已經這個續任過的然後七位沒有續任所以我們希望讓兩位續任不再發言但另外一位也發了言 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3646.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3647.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
謝謝陳委員,謝謝被提名人的答詢下一位請林國成委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3697.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3705.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
謝謝主席請陳大法官提名人請被提名人陳慈揚教授答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3713.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3738.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
陳提名人我想因為本席啊針對不管你在當考試委員或者當寫者專家的時候當然我特別要提醒也就是上一次的大法官的提名七個通通不通過不通過的原因是因為力猶有 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3740.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3751.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
其中有一位劉靜儀教授他是國民黨的媽民進黨的媽民眾黨的柯文哲他媽但是本港 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3753.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3780.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
特別投贊成票也就是給劉靜儀教授這個才是要真正可以當大法官沒有送上面的壓力自己有自己的主張那我就感覺到很奇怪喔民進黨自己封殺劉靜儀教授這代表什麼就代表就是賴總統提名的大法官不一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3781.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3796.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
就只有聽賴清德的那就一定會通過這個我特別要提醒可是上一次是力猶有那這一次啊又加上兩個這樣的所有七個提名人當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3798.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3826.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
陳教授陳提名人是不是這樣我不曉得可是其他的部分我要給他形容這是傳統食物來陳提名人這是什麼乖乖乖乖是上次力猶有這次又加上什麼聽話的乖乖牌所以我拿這些乖乖就是台灣人的口味但是我坦白講 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3828.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3854.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
說實在的當一個大法官不是只有力有有也不能只有乖乖牌如果是這樣大法官的職責本來他就是維護憲華解釋憲華非常重要的職責所以這一點我特別要跟我們陳提名人特別提醒未來如果你當大法官以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3855.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3880.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
你有顏色 另外一回事但是千萬不能做乖乖牌這一點我要提醒你好 那個陳提名的來我現在啊我剛剛講力有有當然我這個你事實上你自己也知道在民進黨執政這九年當中你不管是考試委員或者你在授課的當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3881.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3896.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我在想 民進黨任何一個跟法例有關的跟憲法有關的當然 紀律 增調會你是申請人欸那有很多法例案 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3897.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3919.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那這些等等我們就不再浪費時間我要請問你過去是寫者專家現在你準備大法官被提名人你在這個部分跟民進黨的這些關係未來你如果通過以後你會有什麼起色請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3922.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3941.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
報告委員從我106年開始擔任考試委員整個就可以證明我在考試院任內所有的兼職當然不是政黨的兼職我從來沒有兼職過政黨所有的各院的這個術院審議委員等等全部辭掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3942.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3957.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
也不參加除跟考試院職權有關的相關的演講或報告這裡第一個我就可以證明我本身就是基於超然的地位在行使考試委員職權這以前可以驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3958.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3985.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那你在當大法官的時候也是會秉存你這種精神但是你在寫者專家對你不放心的就是確確實實你比力猶有更力猶有好沒關係這個是我們的感覺但是你的做法就是未來表現給人家看嘛當然也不能說過去如何做跟現在如何做未來如何做我們就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3986.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4012.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
把他蓋關這個論斷那這個當然對你也是不公平但是我特別再來請教你一個問題除了你當然跟民進黨力有有的那種顏色是非常密切但是我要請教你現在家人還有沒有在當有幾職或無幾職的民進黨的重要職務 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4013.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4040.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
報告委員 我的太太郭立貞教授現在擔任民進黨的仲裁委員但是跟委員報告夫妻除了共贏婚姻生活 家庭關係以及親子關係以外個人的職業的發展跟個人的一個自己決定的這相關這個OK OK 好我現在疑問的是這樣 陳提名人我在疑問的 為什麼我要問這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4041.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4070.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
當然夫人她如何去做她想法怎麼去做跟你的職位當然不等於啦但是有一點因為本黨台灣民眾黨在問鑑的時候你提到這個部分你如果現在在宴會裡面直接講答我夫人是怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣這個問題我就不會問喔你答的是依憲法之規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4071.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4097.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
九條十條十一條辦理這個就有一點迴避的意思那個是指我個人有利益衝突的時候那個問題是問個人有利益衝突的時候所以我才依據憲法訴訟法並沒有問到說你家人或者是你的幾等親之內並沒有問所以我的回答是非常誠實的所以我坦白講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4098.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4123.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
所以這樣就會讓我們猜疑你是在做迴避那有做就有做有什麼關係因為民進黨本來就是正當的政黨啊因為那個問題點只問我本人所以我的回答是針對本人如果有問家人我一定會回答除了太太以外其他還有沒有沒有沒有了齁我希望這樣剛才為什麼我會講 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4124.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4153.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
除了栗油油當然我們要尊重參加任何政黨那其他的職務無所謂但是當了大法官以後他是憲法為重所以不能有政黨色彩太明顯這是我們很在乎的也認為說過去你怎麼做讓我們感覺你是栗油油再加上栗油油但是 報告我人我在考試委員任內絕對沒有這樣子的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4155.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4179.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
另外一個就是會死的問題會死的問題你也曾經講過喔你曾經講過也就是說執行死刑對於生命的侵犯行為請問現在以死刑一字節死指會死的這些你現在未來有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4180.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4208.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
報告委員我在回答貴黨團的意見裡面提到除了要堅守憲法的價值核心大法官還要堅固基於國民主權國民的情感及價值共識所以我在這邊可以理解也認同死刑的存在而且有感同身受報告委員還有一大步來來來陳提名人來你發表這個意思就是你反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4210.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4220.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
你反對的意思不是也就是說執行死刑是侵犯的立場所以這些有時候你現在講說你尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4222.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4247.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這個法行的那個死刑的存在那當然這個我們尊重你可是我把問題凸顯出來是讓你未來在這個部分你當了大法官以後在這個部分要特別去留意因為你在寫者在平常所表示的這些就讓就讓我們感覺是你根本就是會死的使用者吧從 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4248.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4264.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我相信那句話是從理論推論的應該是從基本權核心理論推論出的你還是尊重有死刑的存在我還是尊重 因為這是基於國民主權我跟委員報告我留得的 我的背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4265.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4291.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
德國的法院的判決除了前面第一個是他的國規以外另外他會寫到以德意志人民之名來做成判決所以一定要尊重國民法官法也是如此我知道我知道我知道你我拜讀過你很多你很多這個大作啦所以你很多資料我都有蒐集那因為我是認為講這句話會產生讓人家你 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4294.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4309.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
不存在死刑的存在所以這一點要特別那你已經公開在大宴裡面已經講了你是死刑的存在你是尊重的所以這個部分要 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4310.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4327.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
未來大法官是在解釋憲法是在解釋違憲與否所以這個部分是特別提醒你接下來可能比較敏感也就是本黨跟我們立法院已經三讀通過的法庭直播的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4328.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4356.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那法庭直播已經三讀通過算一個法律案嘛因為這個法院組織法裡面其實這個也沒有牽涉到任何人那這些人我就感覺到很奇怪啊民進黨就一直在講事實神根本不能直播嘛就是法律神才有可能直播更何況兩個重點一個重點就是社會矚目重大的案子一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4357.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4383.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那大家所關心重要的兩個議題才有可能直播這直播是被告可以申請法官做最後的裁定那我不曉得法庭直播不是什麼洪水猛獸那為什麼他們在反對這個叫做什麼自己心裡面有鬼所以一直在阻擋來陳提名人未來你是大法官針對這個問題你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4386.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4400.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
報告委員我在貴黨團提的書面已經提到法庭直播基本上立法院已經通過尊重立法院的決定裡面有關法律審 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4401.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4419.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
開放直播為原則那事實審是例外而且呢要最後由法官依職權來認定當然當事人可以申請這些我都予以尊重不過有一件事我必須因為司法院已經也提到了裡面有非常多會涉及到隱私權 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4420.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4437.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
涉及到相關的權利事實神才會有隱世前來 我只是提法律的要件希望司法院 司法院已經承諾說要司法行政所長要就這個行為要去補配他我就認為你沒有誠心面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4438.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4464.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
今天我剛才已經講這是事實審當然不再實現了那法律審當然是社會矚目的重大議案你還在講什麼個人的隱私那是最後才法官來裁定嘛所以這些東西我不曉得他們在怕什麼大法委員我是說配套措施而已啦我並不是我是說配套措施不是說我有很多議題來陳提名人來我有很多議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4466.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4481.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
現在就是現在的政府尤其教育部啊用一個什麼健康有序不涉及正式矮化等等的東西用這種變通限制做協助交流但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4482.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4505.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我們大家都知道陳提名人你也曾經去過大陸喔也做過協助交流那我們本院也有民進黨委員講啊講說交流就是統戰請問這是人民的行的權利請問你讚不讚同交流就是統戰你讚不讚同 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4506.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4529.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
人民有行動遷徙等等的自由這憲法明文保障但是依據憲法23條如果社交公共利益等等這些是可以以法律限制但是不能剝奪我講的是交流兩制跟統戰無關但是我們院裡面民進黨有委員講交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4530.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4536.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
什麼叫做交流 交流就是大家互相的知識的交換 交流的情感 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4537.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4559.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
並非有統獨的這些交流當然統獨不可以啊 法律規定得很清楚啊所以我現在請教你的就是交流就是統戰 你讚不讚同因為未來你是要做大法官喔大法官是要做憲法人民權利的解釋喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4560.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4584.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
所以你同不同意這句話報告我人這是大院各委員彼此之間的在職權形式的發表當然我們言論自由我們都尊重他來 陳提名人我跟你講我們任何一個立法委員他有免責權這個OK我們都尊重他言論自由但是我要請教你因為未來你是要做大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4585.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4614.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
交流就是統戰你同不同意我認為我要你回答你同不同意交流就是統戰原則上交流並不是統戰但是有很多狀況之下要經大院來做相關的立法或配套這是遵守大院的職權陳教授 陳提名人你如果繼續這樣講我就開始要用這種不理性的來問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4615.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4640.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
因為你不同意就是不同意嘛這本來交流就不是統戰嘛那明明就是要把它交流就把它變成統戰這叫做什麼這叫做政治化的思想啊什麼這樣就統戰那如果是這樣你幾年下來2013年2014年2017年你都有學術啊你有去見過統戰部的人嗎沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4643.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4663.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那為什麼要把你醜化 你也是一個統戰啊所以陳提名的人 未來你是要當法官我要的就是這一句話你到底同不同意 你已經講說不同意但是尊重他的言論自由我一樣 跟你的心態一樣我也反對這句話就是統戰但是最起碼的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4664.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4689.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
也就是其他的部分他們要釋憲你就有一個基本的立場好 另外我們大家知道陳提名人你也是反對反核的反核的但是我們本黨8月23號準備核三的啟用但是我必須要提醒我們陳提名人也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4691.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4705.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
世界各國都在用核能過去是緩核現在變成核能是安全但是你的大作幾個當中甚至於你是核四的這些審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4706.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4728.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
你都指張要會合請問一下你當了大法官以後你會把這個緩和的觀念帶進大法官法庭裡面去做這些不利於核能的這些種種但是我特別要提醒七大工業國先進國家都已經把核能當成一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4730.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4744.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
環保的花店的東西請問你針對這個議題陳提名人你有什麼看法報告委員這是我將近30年前核能科技的狀態所提出的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4748.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4761.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
三十年後因為我八年擔任考試委員全力專注在考試院的職權對環境法這一塊基本上已經沒有再去接觸它了那我同意啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4762.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4779.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我同意你的說法因為三十年前當然時代轉變有時候看法會改變但是我特別要提醒你核能世界趨勢是過去緩和是有理現在緩和是要理性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4780.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4802.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
緩和當然這些包括日本鄰近國家我們可以看大家都在用嘛所以我希望你當了大法官以後千萬千萬不能把三十年緩和的這個堅定想法用在憲法的解釋這樣我特別要提醒我們陳提名人最後一個來最後一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4803.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4831.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我們大家都知道 現在的大法官陳宗珍大法官你過去在當考試委員的時候確實他在當考選部部長你們對以律師考試等等你確確實實你們兩位有所堅持跟有所質疑請問一下你現在大法官通過以後就變成又是同事 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4832.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4848.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
會不會前車之鑒又發生你跟他觀念不同有爭執僵持不下的情形請問我們陳提名人針對這個你有什麼解說自古文人相親 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4849.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4871.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
彼此之間的學術見解都不一樣所以在學界發生爭執的狀況都是常識但是私底下大家都是法界的同事朋友絕對不會因為這樣影響到私底下法界的朋友跟同事之情誼但是有關公事部分我們當然就堅持自己的見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4872.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4901.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那個陳提名人我想今天我都很直接的問你一些過去不管你30年前的堅持或者考試委員的等等或者你過去跟民進黨種種的關係這個都無所謂隨時我也同意時代轉變不一樣但是當大法官當任何一個職責有任何一個職責的這些轉變跟堅持最後一個我必須要提醒我們陳提名人心中有憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4903.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4924.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
腦中有人名不要有綠色的想法要有自己邪術涵養的主張所以我真的蠻期待我們陳提名人謝謝林委員 謝謝被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4930.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4941.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
下一位劉建國委員之詢問以書面移出列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請葛如君委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4961.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4965.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
謝謝主席 有請陳慈揚被提名人被提名人打選 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4972.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4992.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
委員好陳貝提名人早安檢視您的履歷過去學術以及行政閱歷豐富相信您一定了解大法官的主要職責是釋憲也就是憲法的守護者也就是要確保國家機關的行為符合憲法的規定但是非常弔詭的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4993.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5020.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
2017年您被提名為考試委員的時候也曾經到立法院來被詢當時您在答詢的時候清楚地表明了我國現行的憲政體制是一個問亂的憲政體制現在曾被提名的人可能反過來作為守護這樣一個曾經被您批評是問亂的憲政體制想請教您如何面對這樣一個與您過去理念相互矛盾的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5020.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5049.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
又要如何能夠守護這個曾經被您評價為問亂的憲政體制呢好 謝謝委員報告委員剛才在陳育珍委員在詢詢的時候我已經本來要回答就是作為一個學者既學住自由包括憲政體制司法行政立法都可以批判但是呢作為一個體制內就如同我當時擔任考試委員一樣就必須遵守整個憲政體制的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5050.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5075.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
是 對不起 所以您的意思是您還是認為憲法是混亂的只是您願意持續守護這個混亂的憲政是這樣嗎憲法不是混亂 是它的制度的問題所以現在憲法又是混亂了啦行動原則喔 您說的是混亂喔所以現在憲法不混亂了嗎我只是指憲政體制不包括人權保障所以憲政體制現在還是混亂的那你要來守護它 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5078.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5100.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
對憲法來講 八年一瞬 但是您卻濁是驚非昨天可以很混亂 結果今天現在要來守護憲法我可以說您是最不適合守護憲法的人本席過去也有了解一下您過去的事蹟您在2007年和陳明通教授 陳英賢教授共同起草了中華民國第二共和憲法草案 簡稱台灣憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5102.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5130.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
雖然當初主要有目標是法理台獨本席是不支持的部分的內容本席不支持但是裡面有一些內容的精神本席卻蠻有興趣的譬如說總統需即化您在這一步您號稱的新憲制度設計當中將憲政體制從總統制要改為內閣制顯然是有看到總統權勢過重可能帶來的影響政黨對決可能對國家造成的危害 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5131.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5153.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
內文當中也說了如族群分裂資源內耗政府空傳等請問被提名人啊您被總統提名為大法官人選前有沒有跟賴清德總統討論過要建議我國應該要把體制改為內閣制啊您剛剛說制度紊亂嘛避免因為總統獨大政黨對決造成族群分裂政府空轉的危害有沒有跟賴總統提過 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5155.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5168.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
沒有沒有提過那今天賴總統提名您來擔任大法官卻連基本的政治理念和學術立場都沒有搞清楚您沒有責任跟他提一下嗎還是您現在要說賴總統自己沒看文件啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5170.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5197.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
報告委員這是尊重賴總統的這個自由的決定自己的這個跟我一個平凡的教授我想沒有辦法去做任何的一個建議哇突然間從提名人又變成平凡的教授你是被提名要擔任大法官的人啊沒有關係等同於現在剛剛您這句話已經向全體國民宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5197.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5219.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
這是一份完全不負責任的名單啊要立法院如何同意沒有關係我們要來看啊如今賴總統的這些專權獨斷獨行的行為其實都在不斷加劇社會的分歧不論是將不支持他的人都說成是雜質或是為了政治目的要來抹滅歷史將96.2%的國人都列為其餘人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5223.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5241.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
以及一昧的對抗擁有多數民意支持的立法院種種作為甚至遭到外媒紐約時報直接批評可能淪為對岸加大對台軍事施壓的藉口我們應該要反過來詢問陳倍庭名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5242.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5270.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
在被賴清德總統提名以後您還認同您18年前的主張嗎我再給您一次機會你還有想要防止總統專權對國家對社會造成的危害嗎還是您在賴清德取得權力您被提名以後就覺得現行的制度好棒棒我的學者立場不變但是在這裡尊重大院修憲的權限所以您認同應該要推動內閣制 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5273.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5301.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
至於制度選擇當然都是由大任所以您認同總統制有可能會專權對吧這是我學者的一貫立場那現在的立場是什麼您現在是被提名人我不是詢問學者我的學者立場一貫不變現在的立場所以你還有學者人格跟大法官人格啊是這樣嗎不是因為如果擔任大法官基本上是憲政的職務要遵守憲法沒有關係啦那所以您之前學者的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5302.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5324.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
根本資料都不用附上了是不是啊所以現在的陳馳揚啊已經在打臉18年前的陳馳揚啊 是這樣嗎拿人手短 吃人嘴軟 是這樣嗎該不會又是時空環境不同現在還多一個角色不同啊中華民國的憲法這幾年都沒有變變的只有是凝聳考試委員變成大法官被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5325.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5337.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這種屈原附事讓人懷疑的行為根本沒有資格擔任大法官但是接下來我還是要繼續請教陳倍庭名人啊您目前被提名擔任的是哪一個國家的大法官中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5338.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5363.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
沒錯 您一定曉得大法官的職權之一是宣告政黨解散之判決根據憲法第77條訴訟法第77條政黨之目的或行為危害中華民國之存在或自由民主之憲政秩序者主管機關內政部得申請憲法法庭為宣告政黨解散之判決想請教您 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5364.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5390.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
日前民進黨的政治人物同時也是內政部長劉世芳在民進黨公開宣講的場合高喊要讓賴清德做台灣國的主人這樣的說法實質上是不是應該已經危害中華民國的存在啊如此一個危害中華民國存在的政黨您是否認同內政部應該要申請憲法法庭宣告民進黨解散 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5391.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5414.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
報告委員這個條文是從德國參照過來的德國裡面特別重要的一點是必須以暴力脅迫或用武力的方式來破壞一個國家的存在跟自由民主憲政我現在講的是憲法訴訟法第77條我不是在講刑法100條喔你不要自己在這裡把幽魂拿出來喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5415.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5441.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我再問一次假如內政部向憲法法庭申請裁判你是否同意剛剛這樣的說法民進黨是一個危害中華民國存在的政黨憲法訴訟法規定是把憲法徵修條文拿過來作為他的一個職權我講的是憲法訴訟法第七條解散政黨的部分這樣子有沒有應該要被解散政黨這個要符合暴力脅迫用武力的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5442.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5464.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好,沒有關係,暴力脅迫大家有很多定義啦那我再請教,您認同這個說法當中總統和人民的關係是主人和奴隸嗎?是嗎?絕對不是,我們是一個國民主權的國家請你朗讀一下憲法第一條中華民國基於三民主義為民智、民有、民享之民主共和國 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5465.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5476.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
順序上有點錯誤但是沒關係 謝謝您民有民智民享所以這個說法絕對有沒有違憲台灣中華民國的主人要變成賴清德 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5478.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5503.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
報告委員 我在四字四四五號裡面提到有關主張共產主義跟分裂國土我認為這樣的言論是基本上是政治言論是言論自由 這應該尊重所以內政部長自己有解散政黨的權利他也可以有言論自由總統也可以有言論自由我現在講的是民進黨 執政黨內政部長跟賴清德總統啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5508.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5528.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
是言論自由因為政治如果擔任政府職務的話會被限縮顯然您剛剛突然發現了您的大腦也有角色扮演的時空錯亂人事時地物只要不同憲法的解讀正義的解讀在您心中就有所改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5530.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5550.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我還是要來問陳貝提名人您30年前曾經在學術研討會上發表過有關立法院對預算審查案絕弦範圍的看法當時您指出今日社會由於自然及社會人文科學的不斷進步政府事務繁重所遇規範事務增多 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5551.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5580.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
所以對人民對國會的要求不斷的增加而是希望國會積極的督促政府使政府在各方面的事務上為主動之作為因此我國憲法第70條對於預算而修正權的禁止似乎未考慮到現代國會在政府施政上具有積極引導的作用也就是說啊30年前您主張憲法第70條立法院應該要有所鬆綁 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5581.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5603.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
他對預算增額的權利您30年前開創性的看法可以說是許多學術巨擘 往塵莫及請問陳貝提言 30年後的今天社會變化有沒有更快啊自然科學有沒有更快啊AI有沒有變得更快啊請問您對放寬立法院預算額修正權的立場有沒有更加堅定 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5604.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5622.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這是我學者的見解但是要修改憲法70條憲法70條的規定必須由大院來修改那我現在問的是您的見解啊陳被提名人是學者也是被提名人的見解啊剛才我已經講過我學者的見解不會改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5623.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5649.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那現在的見解呢現在見解學者不會改變但是這只是我們要尊重憲政體制修憲權在大院剛剛陳玉珍委員問您啦你說我們國民黨黨團給你的問題上面叫你放棄你學者的身份很抱歉啦 您搞錯了是您自己的答案說您要脫離學者研究見解的堅持是您自己要脫離的沒有人叫你脫離喔進來啦 我們要知道齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5652.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5664.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這些說法根本讓你表達出你在國會殿堂上不敢本於職權說出你自己內心的真話就表示你不是一個合適的大法官人選我們進來要來繼續看美國總統川普 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5668.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5695.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
要做各種的關稅政策現在可能25%可能15%可能35%我們都希望台灣可以穩定的經濟發展我想您30年前的堅持我們希望您自己要感到欣慰也要持續的支持我們認為這才是您有機會作為大法官的風骨接下來時間有限我想要繼續問陳輩提名人其實我很佩服你 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5696.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5720.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我想AI持續發展也應該要重視環境所以您過去曾經對環境法的領域發表多篇的專書和著作甚至曾經在環境法總論當中提到國家對於環境有積極保護的義務即便對於國家的義務透過第三人來達成最終保護環境的責任還是要由國家來負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5721.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5732.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
請問您是否支持環境權入縣也就是在憲法當中明定環境權為國家英語保障之基本人權是不是還持續堅持這是無庸置疑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5733.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5756.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
很好 同樣的著作當中您也提到受汙染者可以由國家在確保權利上面來主張他們的生存權以及保障人身權的自由人民要免於國家的不法侵害以及受到干擾國家要給予基本權利保護如果基本權受到侵害的時候人民可以依憲法第16條提起救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5757.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5779.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我想問目前颱風丹納斯襲擊南台灣摧垮屏東外海的太平洋光電輔板說經濟部替廠商發文說這是一個測試說光電板在颱風來襲前就已經移除結果貼文裡面就有光電板被網友說這是薛丁格的光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5780.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5804.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
無論是光電板還是浮台造成環境的污染是事實請問被提名人為了捍衛您一直以來提倡您剛剛也確認提倡的環境權國家應該要提供服務生態保存的立場你是不是支持在地民眾採取法律途徑來進行救濟甚至在所有法律途徑用盡以後可以向憲法法庭申請裁判 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5805.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5823.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我是尊重但是國家應該更要更積極在為提起救濟人民提起救濟之前就應該採取比較積極的作為很好很好所以針對經濟部表示如果有媒體或網友再提屏東光電板事件將向警方報案 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5824.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5837.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
以示警惕啊請問站在大法官被提名人的立場您贊成政府自己沒有先處理好就以告發為手段企圖要侵害人民的言論自由嗎請回應我反對很好我想齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5841.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5855.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
在這裡我們可以看到所以您是反對經濟部這樣的態度對嗎你反對國家要用這種態度對待我們的人民對吧如果經濟部有這樣的態度我反對現在已經是事實所以你反對吧如果是的話我反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5856.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5879.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
事件發生至今經濟部對於媒體民眾以及專家學者的提問採取已讀不回的態度甚至要提告的方式要侵害人民的言論自由甚至要打壓第四權我想您今天站在國會的殿堂你說你反對你有沒有公開表達過任何一句話除了我們在這裡詢問您以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5881.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5903.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
報告委員因為如剛才跟其他委員報告過的我已經8年沒有從事環境法研究沒有機會在那個場合裡面去做現在的國家針對環境有非常多錯誤的能源政策希望您可以好好補上最後您在報告當中的自我期許裡頭表達要擔任憲法的守護者 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5904.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5931.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
但是呢我希望來問您一下您如何解答這一條復議時啊如今全體立法委員是二分之一以上決議維持原案行政院長應即接受該決議憲法內明文表示啊行政院長就要接受啊結果呢我們的行政院卻在復議遭立法院否決以後跑去釋憲申請暫時處分完全沒有依憲法規定來行事你怎麼看待行政院這種行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5932.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5954.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
報告委員 院長應該是應該要接受所以說好像雖然有提起暫時處分等等是不是已經生效了 法律是不是已經生效了這是不是事做已經是接受了我想您站上質詢台前就應該要了解您現在要背書要捍衛憲法的政府跟現行的狀態要做好功課啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5955.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5972.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這個案子真的是違憲像財化法為例行政院在2月27號提出復議並且在3月10號被立法院否決結果行政院卻在5月21號提出釋憲這樣完全違背憲法最高性原則的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5973.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5998.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
司法院絕對不能放任 憲法都寫明了行政院長應該即接受決議 行政院卻不斷挑戰憲法的用字解釋您憲法守護者 你是不是給我們一點保障報告委員 附議跟憲法訴訟是一個法律究竟一個是政治的途徑他直接違反憲法徵修條文第三條第二項啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5999.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6009.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
你要守護憲法行政院帶頭違反憲法從政治途徑來講他應該是接受了所以說就是法律已經生效了 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6010.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6034.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
他提出釋憲 所以您之後也會接受就對了沒有 釋憲是另外一回事不是 釋憲是法律途徑所以您現在正在曲解這一句行政院長應急接受您一分鐘前的說法 您現在又不同意了我們要再次期許你作為憲法的守護者你要捍衛憲法的最高性 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6034.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6057.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
不要為了政治目的迎合其他人去曲解憲法條文這種做法不要再次出現我時間有限啦我還是要再詢問在行政院對憲法訴訟法提出附議失敗以後您剛剛說嘛附議失敗就接受啦有嗎有接受嗎我們來看一下傳出民進黨要求建議大法官要自提處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6058.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6082.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
而不告不理是司法權的標準法官應該要被動行使職權否則就是求人間裁判請問如果有政黨行政單位要求建議大法官如何做事對司法下指導期政治的手要伸到司法的體系以您的法學素養這樣的訴求這樣的行為沒有問題嗎發生這樣的狀況您覺得司法院應該要怎麼做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6082.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6109.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
如果有這種狀況 司法權應該基於超然的地位不予接受 如果有那應不應該予以譴責 這不是如果 這是已經發生那剛才委員已經垂詢了說司法應該被動了 不告不理所以縱使如果有的話基本上司法權是不應該接受但是要不要譴責 不是司法權應該主動去做任何表態的 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6110.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6122.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
好 我想依據中華民國憲法第80條明文規定法官須超出黨派以外依據法律獨立審判不受任何的干涉 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6123.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6149.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我們看到現在台灣執政黨這樣的行為啊可以說是公然的毀憲亂政啊那你說不告不理嘛那現在有民眾要告有政黨要告您是不是會接受啊剛剛有一個政黨疑似這個違憲啊剛剛有政黨的說法直接違反憲法第一條這個說法更甚至要來干預司法如果有人告發有人要提起憲訴您接不接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6151.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6174.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
報告委員 憲法法庭是15人合一制而且要看到事實證據我現在是問您單一個提名人我要看到當時的事實證據才能夠確認他不符合憲法訴訟法的要件不管您現在什麼新憲法啦還是人色跳動啦我想國人很難放心把捍衛中華民國憲法的責任交給您啦 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6178.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6186.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
謝謝葛委員也謝謝被提名人報告全院委員會休息十分鐘休息之後繼續進行詢問現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6804.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6806.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
報告全院委員會現在繼續開會進行委員詢問請郭委員預請詢問有請陳教授請被提名的人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6836.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6855.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
委員好我想憲法法庭從去年其實到現在一直都是處於停擺的一個狀態那憲法法庭大部分應該是95%以上應該申請釋憲的都是人民您對這樣子的一個狀況目前憲法法庭癱瘓當中您有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6856.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6874.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
報告委員因為我們憲法訴訟法有修改當然尊重大院的職權但是各國有關憲法訴訟法相關的規定都有原則跟例外或者我們說非常態的一個規定但是這次憲法訴訟法 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6875.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6902.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這個部分好像並沒有看到所以才會造成這樣子對人民權利保障上面可能會有所中斷不過這是大院的職權尊重大院的職權我們當然也很遺憾看到這樣子的結果因為有很多人民申請的釋憲案到目前為止還是停放在那個地方沒有被解決我想訴諸憲法法庭申請釋憲其實是人民最後的保護自己的一個手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6903.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6931.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
但我們真的並不樂見這樣的一個結果好那我想呢請教這個請教說這個前一陣子我們看到這個新北屠城發生了嚴重的一個家暴的一個命案喔那我想這件事情應該是也讓很多的社會大眾開始議論紛紛喔那我想這名男子呢這個行兇的這個所謂的加害者他明明已經被核發了所謂的保護令但是仍然在開庭之後他還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6933.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6953.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
對這個兩名的女性來進行施暴甚至直接造成兩名女性的一個死亡那我想這個案件當中其實我們也看到家庭暴力防治法實務在運作當中可能也出現了一些所謂的這個法律明定就算他違反了保護令他可以裁定羈押但是在實務上 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6954.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6982.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我們看到法官對於所謂的羈押的一個裁定的比例其實還是偏低那導致這個被這個保護令對於所謂的這個加害人的強制力並不足那在您認為這現行的羈押一個制度在比例原則之下是不是能夠足以保護受害者那如果在制度上他是無法防範明知有暴力風險的人再次的加害這是不是真的構成了對人身安全保障的憲法失靈的一個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6983.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
7010.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那我想就請教您如果將來您擔任所謂的大法官那會如何從憲法的觀點來審視這類的一個制度的漏洞報告委員憲法秩序多元憲法秩序之下要保障了人權從未出生的胎兒一直到成年甚至到老年年長者以及甚至對死亡者的整體的一個保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7011.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7030.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那這個保護的整個過程以及整個的制度的配套這都是國家應該負起的一個保護義務那在這個保護義務之下呢會透過行政跟立法兩者之間的協力來制定相關的政策以及法規以及執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7031.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7053.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那在這些內容當中因為個人曾經擔任過非常多的法規委員那法規委員會的委員裡面對於各種修法的規定跟建議在這個過程當中我深深體會到土法不足以自行因為很多的法律規定都是很抽象的 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7054.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7083.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
必須靠實務的整個發展來加以配合當然也要靠實務的所謂我們的公務員來能夠有同理心來一起來補充這些法律的不足我們進一步來請教一下這個陳教授就是比例原則啦我們講這個比例原則是不是可以在這一類的高風險的情境之下讓位是讓位給所謂的這個被害人保護優先這個部分如果江南寧是大法官您的見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7085.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7103.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
事實上比例原則上面因為這種現實的狀況出現了非常多在修法方面基本上要透過相關的配套措施更加嚴格的來針對相關的一些漏洞來加以填補基本上這些漏洞的填補 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7105.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7129.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
還是並沒有違反比例原則所以基本上在這個部分我是贊成的贊成在這個部分要更針對實務上的這些實例來補充法律的漏洞剛剛講到這個所謂的實例其實我們看到有很多的所謂的家暴的事件當中其實都有兒童涉及那就您的觀點你怎麼看待兒童最佳利益原則在憲法當中是不是具有實質的一個拘束力 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7131.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7156.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
報告委員兒童的利益這個部分呢是憲法保障的重要的法義特別在我們台灣少子化的情形之下兒童的保障特別兒童是一個毫無反抗能力或完全沒有辦法自衛能力的這樣子的一個基本權主體所以在這裡保障上面應該要更加的強化這方面的保障那主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7157.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7176.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
應該要有這方面的一個更強化更積極的作為那如果未來將來有人申請釋憲就類似的這樣子的一個案件他申請的釋憲你認為這個羈押制度對於所謂的被害人保護不足而構成所謂的違憲您認為大法官有沒有機會可以有介入的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7177.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7199.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
大法官的解釋或判決基本上是在補充立法的不足但是大法官一旦透過原則性、補充性各方面的解釋以後還是最後希望透過立法機關定定法律依據這樣解釋的方向或判決的方向來定定法律來補足這些法律的漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7199.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7220.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
了解那接下來我想要再請教就是兒少性侵害我想這個是社會非常沉痛的一個議題喔那也是不可以忽視的一個創傷之一啦那這類的這個所謂的這個犯罪喔不僅僅是對於所謂的少年或者是兒童他們是造成長期的影響而且是長達好幾年不管是心理上或者是在精神上 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7220.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7239.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
他其實都受到這樣子的一個傷害跟不正義的一個對待了那我想這個國家其實有責任要提供給就回應這樣子的一個需求來針對這樣子的一個關於像兒上性侵害的一個司法制度上能夠來保障這個被害人在整個所有的成長的一個過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7240.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7255.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
但是我們的刑法跟民事求償的部分其實對於所謂的性侵害犯罪的追溯期限還有民法對於所謂的侵權的一個行為所設的損害的一個賠償的要求的期限 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7255.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7284.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
其實它都是有期限的但是往往在整個所有的這個期限固定的一個時間許多的兒少如果遭遇到這樣子的一個不幸的事件的時候他長期的心理的恐懼而且在遭受所謂的權力不對等的一個狀況之下多重的壓力之下其實往往都沒有辦法在期效就是在期限當中能夠主張自己的一個權利這個是我們看到的一個現狀那我想陳教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7285.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7306.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這個性侵害其實對於所謂的這個兒童來說其實是非常隱晦而且是非常深層的一個傷害那對於少年或者是對於我們的兒童那在整個所有的壓力權力不對等或者是他無法在法律規定的時間當中他去提起所謂的訴訟其實是不是也同樣的忽略了憲法所保障的身體自主 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7306.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7318.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
跟人格尊嚴還有他自己本身的救濟權那您認為在某種特定的情況之下對於所謂的性侵害的被害人他設了這樣子的一個絕對的時效有沒有構成違憲的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7319.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7331.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
報告委員剛才陳玉珍委員有在提問有關死刑的問題本來要補充回答一個問題在這邊是否容許我一起補充這段時間大家都針對有關死刑的問題的討論但是都沒有針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7337.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7352.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們說活著更痛苦也就是說被害家屬的傷痛身心靈的傷痛的一個照顧這是國家很重要的一個義務一樣的情形受性侵的婦女或者是兒童 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7352.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7376.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這個部分呢基本上他們的整個身心靈的創痛跟照顧國家在這裡是非常不足的特別是未來如果剛才講到有關有這個期限的問題起訴期限的問題這些內容上面呢基本上會可能會面臨一個夢魘就是說未來還可能會再遇到相關的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7377.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7396.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
個人或者一個情形那是不是國家在這邊應該要更進一步的去做相關的配套措施跟補救措施那不過這是大院的權責基本上我是尊重大院在這方面只是希望能夠大院在這方面能夠更積極的來做這方面的一個補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7397.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7422.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我剛剛講的其實性侵害的對象其實是兒少我講的是兒少的部分在他們真的長大能夠面對這件事情或是在權力稍微能夠對等的時候他來提出這樣子的一個為自己權益來做一個保障我剛剛的問題您可能還沒有回答就是對於所謂的性侵害的被害人這個所設的不管是刑法也好或者是民法也好這個所設的這個所謂的這個有效的期限是不是構成違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7425.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7443.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我認為這個可能我想以目前的狀況當下的現實狀況來講可能會有違憲之餘那是否真的有違憲因為基本上司法還是要看到事實證據跟相關法規的部分那法規的規定如何才能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7444.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7472.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那如果這被害人他主張在刑法跟民法的時效當中這個制度其實他的經驗其實這個部分我們的解釋是違憲的那您認為大法官是不是可以透過所謂的釋憲給予更彈性的一個法律解釋基本上大法官可以在立法者還未進行這個立法漏洞的一個填補過程當中來可以填補這樣子一個漏洞但是最後還是要尊重大院有關立法將大法官所提出的相關的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7473.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7490.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
來透過具體的法律更明確的予以規範我想現行這個求償期限的一個設計其實往往都忽略了這些兒少性侵害的被害人他們的一些特殊性另外就是他們能夠自主求償的一個能力的限制其實反而造成了實質上的侵害這個你同意嗎同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7492.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7507.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
接下來也是很多在校園當中我想這個最近大家也都一直不斷的在討論就是老師的權益那關於所謂的校士會議的一些爭議那我想您自己本身也是教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7507.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7523.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那也在校園當中其實也教書那我想呢這個近期在教育的現場出現的一些狀況特別是講到校事會議的一個設置跟運作當然也引起了很多的教師們他們自己本身的一些討論那同時呢也引發了一些爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7524.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7544.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那我想的這個核心就是在於這個所謂的校事會議它作為一種所謂的調查的一個機制那其實在運作當中往往都會涉入比較主觀的人士的一個判斷甚至逾越了所謂的這個公平公正的一個界線那變成一種處分的工具或者是變成一種處分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7545.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7567.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
這樣子的一個手段其實反而侵害到了所謂的教師受憲法保障工作權對於所謂的程序正義落實造成了一個非常重大的一個挑戰喔那我想的這個教師的工作權受到憲法第15條的一個保障喔但是在缺乏正式的行政處分跟程序還有法律依據的時候學校到底有沒有這個權利用所謂的調查會議的名義 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7569.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7596.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
針對所謂的教師來產生這樣子的一個調查啟動的一個方式會對他們的一個工作權益會不會造成一個比較不利的影響報告委員這是有關教育專業的部分基本上呢必須要由教育學者專家來針對這個部分來做探討那至於當然就法律人來講基本上整個做出任何的調查程序等等都必須符合正當法律程序符合比例原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7597.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7612.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
透明公開原則等等這些的一個程序的規範所以說在這種情形之下學校的調查程序如果能夠最好能夠是在法律或法律授權的辦法裡面去明定那依據這樣的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7612.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7631.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
其次呢這個調查程序可能必須要有不同的背景這方面專業背景的參與包括教育學者老師本身以及法律專家等等這些才能夠如果進行這樣調查程序才能夠符合所謂的我們的公平的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7631.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7650.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那就您這個法律人的一個角度你怎麼樣來界定這個內部事務的調查跟對人事權的實質的處分這個範圍來做這樣子的一個分界校事會議到底有沒有辦法可以提供所謂的申辯跟救濟那如果沒有這個是不是已經違反了這個當法律程序的一個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7651.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7677.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
如果沒有法律授權或法律規定的話基本上是不可以做這樣對教師工作權各方面的一個限制的這個部分那這個部分因為本身不是在教育法領域裡面所以我們只能從憲法的一個第八條人身自由的正當法律程序以及相關的行政程序來說明這個部分不過還是要強調一點最重要還是要法律的規定跟法律授權才可以進行這樣的調查程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7678.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7698.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
因為教育自治其實是憲法重要的一個原則所謂的這個教育自治但如果校內的制度其實侵犯到了老師基本的權益您認為國家要不要介入那大法官是不是應該可以要求調查程序正義在憲法的層次上有一個比較明顯的一個規範明確的一個規範你怎麼樣來看這個所謂的憲政層次的一個張力 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7704.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7730.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
報告委員我贊成必須要有正如剛才講的必須如果現在目前的規定沒有符合法律保留法律授權以及相關的正當法律程序等等這些的話我想這些都必須要透過立法者那如果立法者沒有做的話基本上大法官如果有到釋憲有這種狀況的話原則上應該在這裡可以做補充性的來填補以保障老師的工作權好 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7732.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7754.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那最後一個部分我想請教的就是說我知道陳教授這個過去其實參與不少所謂的這個轉型正義的一個座談那您認為這個轉型正義是法律政治還是憲法層次的一個問題那我想大家都知道其實轉型正義其實不是為了要撕裂我們的社會而是要讓我們歷史的傷痕不再重演 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7754.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7780.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那唯有面對過去的整個不公不義還原真相那另外還有平反受害者我們才能夠真正建立人民對於國家體制的一個信任讓憲政民主的一個制度它有一個穩固的一個根基這是其實轉型正義的最重要的一個目的那我想請教就是陳教授您是否認為這個轉型正義是屬於憲法當中它雖然未明文 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7781.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7808.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
但卻具有所謂的憲法未接的國家義務報告委員我本身留學德國對於納粹時期相關的不正義的事項我們都非常的這樣子深刻的理解所以轉型正義一開始應該是從二次世界大戰開始之後各國所面臨的後來因為東歐的整個共產國家崩潰以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7809.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7835.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所形成的相關的這些內容包括還有南非等等這些這是一個憲法層次或者是法哲學層次的法正義理念的實踐那正如委員剛才所垂詢的基本上這並不是一種報復而是讓未來的人民能夠理解這一段的歷史未來不應該再重蹈覆轍來維護整個自由民主的憲政秩序 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7836.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7864.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
因為在台灣也有白色恐怖也有228事件其實到現在其實受害者的心靈或者是受害者他們自己本身的家屬其實還沒有獲得這樣子的一個平反的機會喔所以其實轉型正義是非常重要那也就是說這個雖然憲法沒有明文的規定我們的轉型正義啦應該可以這麼講但是在國家的憲法上面其實我們應該要有義務去積極的揭露真相補償受害者跟追 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7864.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7889.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
追究加害者的一个义务 这你同意吗是 我赞成那大法官怎么看如果我们透过视线来要求国家对于所谓的历史的不义的行为来负起具体的一个责任请问如果将来您是大法官您怎么看待这样子的一个题目那另外就是请教您怎么看所谓的转促条例的程序跟成效是 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7890.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7919.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
報告委員 基本上剛才盧委員所推詢我已經跟各委員報告了基本上轉型正義是要讓後來的人民能夠了解以前有這樣的一個不正義的狀況造成國家甚至民主的一個慘痛的一個過程所以說大法官在這個部分上基本上從我們的憲法的法理等等為了維護法正義等等這些內容上 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7919.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7947.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
基本上是可以得出這樣的一個結果不過這個問題基本最重要還是最前端的由立法者跟行政權對府衛我記得歷任的政府不管任何政黨執政都針對這件事情有去做過非常多的補償救濟等等這些內容但是我是認為還是不足夠的所以說未來的政府應該繼續朝這個方向繼續的努力除非有不足的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7947.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7962.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
或者是因為人民在這方面有更進一步的受到侵害這種狀況之下有提起憲法訴訟細數的時候大法官當然要對這個維護法正義的理念來做出補充的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7963.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7978.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
當然我們其實也聽到了有一些不同的聲音我假設這個問題只是假設如果未來有聲音要主張廢除所謂的轉促條例您認不認為這可以用違憲審查是可以介入的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7981.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7996 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
轉述條例這個部分呢基本上是立法院通過而且現在目前在實施未來如果是不是要看這個條例本身他的立法的目的是否已經完成如果認為違憲審查可以介入嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7998.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8015.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
您認為報告委員因為我沒有完整的去看到這個內容我沒有辦法去看違憲審查的譬如說他侵害到人權或者是他有違反的相關的這個問題我實在是很抱歉我沒有看到具體我也不希望非常直覺跟委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8016.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8035.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
回答這樣是對委員的不尊重我們提供給您一個方向如果將來您是大法官的話其實這個有可能會碰得到的一些狀況跟問題那也提供給陳教授做一個參考是好謝謝好謝謝郭委員謝謝貝提名人下一位請柯智恩委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8056.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8058.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
謝謝主席 我們請陳備題名人請備題名人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8069.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8088.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好 我称你陈教授比较顺口一点以前的大法官是宣法的守护者事件的结果可以说是一言九鼎或是一锤定音因为目前的大法官他的角色其实引起非常多的争议我请陈老师你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8089.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8106.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
如果你有一天也成为他们其中的一员你认为你有什么差别是赫利基群与众不同让人民重新对司法燃起了一个希望还是你跟这群大法官一样是同声相应同气相求然后更扮演一个政权守护者的一个角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8107.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8133.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
報告委員 大法官的職權 任義務是在保障多元的自由民主憲政秩序所以說每一個法官的背景都是多元的包括專長 政治理念 價值理念等等這些而且以剛才跟前面的委員報告過的是每一個大法官基本上不是學者 就是法官或檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8134.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8160.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以你们因为背景不同所以说你们会根据你们自己的背景提出对于很多条文上面的解释我今天要特别来引用这个前总统陈水扁说的他说大法官不能是万能的上帝他不要每件事情都要请大法官出来做公清很多政治的攻防朝野的攻防大法官最好不要再简入不然大法官的威信都会荡然无存也不要利用大法官献予其不义你赞同陈总统的说法吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8160.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8170.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
報告委員我可不可以稍微再說明一下可以嗎等一下我們等一下會有機會讓你說明所以我其實引用陳水扁的說法是要問你你認為司法要積極還是要消極 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8172.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8199.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
司法作為第三權本身就基於司法的本質是一個被動的而不是一個積極的角色積極的角色是在行政跟立法的這個部分但是呢我相信你從今天早上到現在我們都會認為你是一個憲法的學者說法不能夠出一十五不一樣因為你在書面回馴的時候呢不但強調司法的一個消極性然後呢你覺得不能夠過度來積極但是大家都引用你過去的大作你這本書 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8201.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8222.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
從這個憲法法理的理論的司法院大法官事件的問題裡面其中的一篇卻表現我們的司法積極的主義的態度你甚至認為說大法官是憲法的拯救者不應該迴避政治問題而且要針對基本的權爭議的扮演一個救援者的角色所以難怪大家會質疑到底哪一個才是真正的你 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8223.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8250.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
報告委員我沒有講過拯救者救援者這是三個字沒有完全沒有我是認為憲法是一部政治性的法律所以說呢從人權保障一直到權限責任都跟政治有關只不過在這個解釋過程他不應該一開始就拒絕而是在解釋過程當中如果遇到有政治力的話政治色彩的話你的解釋就應該到這裡為止例如我已經舉過很多例子像固有疆域的解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8251.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8278.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
但是对不起对不起曾被提名人你既然在你们书当中宪法解释具有政治性是必然之理所以大法官不能一开始就以政治问题而拒绝解释否则就具为限制效果所以你认为在这个政治的层面上面你还是具有很大的一个积极性我只能说如果陈前总统在的话看了你的书的话他应该不会提名你因为你的期待你的写法跟他的期待是有些的落差的 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8278.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8294.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
然后呢你特别我们都还是得从你过去的著作来了解你整个的脉络你的思维然后呢这里面提到了大法官是宪政体制的把关者像你书中写的宪法解释具有正经性要保持中立和客观的确你有这么提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8295.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8312.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
但是呢你到底要如何來做這個所謂的中立跟客觀因為我看過你的這個口頭的報告還有你學經歷還有你參與公共行政的一些的成就但是你完全迴避你對民進黨的一個貢獻我們絕對相信你因為這些付出今天你才可以站在這個地方所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8312.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8334.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我不觉得这有什么好不好说的吧你看你调列出来真调会的这个里面的诉讼代表还有呢在宪政改革当中呢你是演绎小组而且你跟我们很多很有名的独派大佬要立出要这个证明制宪那这种破例其实对很多学者来说其实是非常少见的而且更提出了这个所谓的中华民国第二共和的宪法 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8334.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8351.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那既然是作為這個所謂的憲法的一個守護者我們應該對憲法應該百分百的忠誠但是呢這樣子那個擁抱具有台獨傾向的制憲還有所謂第二共和憲法代表一個全新的制憲政的一個秩序我覺得本質上是否定了現有的這個正當性 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8353.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8373.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
是不是報告委員我提倡的是憲政改革要把憲法裡面不妥當不適合經過這七次修憲以後混掉掉你還特別提到的七次修憲已經讓我們的憲法已經是殘破不堪已經非常的破碎這應該也是你在當學者時候的一個說法是不是這並不代表說 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8374.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8402.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我對憲政學者的批判是絕對的因為學者當然是會有所批判既學術自由的保障但是我重點還是在憲政體制五權憲法三權憲法權力分立方面在憲政體制方面對人權的部分你特別提到因為我們現在不管是修憲或制憲非常的困難所以我們最好是用只能透過事先的方法才能夠讓這個憲法更具有一個完整性而且這裡面最重要的是你還主張在中國大陸制定之憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8403.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8425.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
當時還沒有台灣人民的同意所以在90年之前台灣不具有民主正當性我覺得這個說法跟我們賴總統在第三講的時候1946年所通過的中華民國的憲法台灣沒有派員參加這是不謀而合的我覺得你跟賴總統的講法是惺惺相異我就不曉得賴總統是參考你的著作還是有諮詢過你的意見因為你們兩個想法是差不多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8425.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8453.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
報告我人我是強調在中華民國憲法到台灣以後經過動員刊亂時期臨時條款的凍結以至於不具有民主正當性所以說你現在目前你現在目前為止那我現在簡單的問一句好的你未來要扮演所謂我們憲法的一個守護者所以你認同的是1946年前1946年頒布的憲法還是和賴總統一樣只承認90年後總統直選之後的憲法我們只簡單回答這個問題就可以了報告我人 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8455.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8472.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
1990年只修改了十幾個條文而已其餘都是1947年的憲法那當然我是尊重憲法既存在我只針對它修改的方式所以你是同賴總統所說的目前的中華民國憲法應該是從90年之後才來當作憲法所以你不贊同他的這樣的一個說法就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8476.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8498.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
1990年修憲也只不過十幾個條文其他還是依據1947年中華民國憲法的內容我覺得這是在意旨上面當然我們遵守的是統一不法律但是在這個意旨整個的一個最高位上裡面我們還是要把它澄清清楚而且最主要我們來說你特別提到我會比較贊成的就是你提到憲政體制的設計必須符合權力制衡跟所謂的責任政治 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8498.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8516.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
为什么我问这个问题我们现在的五权有四权是被同一个政党所掌握的所以有没有办法达到所谓的权力制衡这东西是很重要的接下来我就要就教育为什么我问这个问题因为我们从民国37年开始历任32任的行政院长当然其中有三任是代理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8516.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8541.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
他共提出了19次的一個復議但是呢卓榮泰院長本身就提出了6次的一個復議而且復議被立法院否決之後呢他不僅沒有擔起這個責任政治的部分他還特別還要提出5次的這個事件你認為他有符合責任政治的這樣的一個原則嗎報告委員這是行政跟立法之間的政治行為這個政治行為大法官不應該去介入或者去關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8542.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8569.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
这就是你刚刚所提到的在这个部分来说其实你书中写的跟你现在所回应的对我来说是有一点落差所以我们必须要把它澄清清楚所以我们就用一些比较具体的范例来特别提到的目前来说的话我们就行政院目前说对于禁法补偿刚有很多人问你还有警察人员的人事条例再提视线而且上礼拜我们通过的普罚现金一万块钱也考虑要来提出视线那我想请问陈教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8570.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8596.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
立法院透過法律案來增加支出你覺得有違反憲法第70條這上面的規定嗎報告委員剛才已經跟幾位委員垂詢的時候回答基本上立法院認為這是法律案行政院認為這涉及到預算的分別所以有爭議爭議的時候呢大法官在520號解釋裡面就提供了所謂依據憲法增修條文第三條相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8596.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8613.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
但是我还是要这个正义的部分里面我还是要把它理定清楚因为在7月9号司法院被提名人蔡秋明这个他就特别两座的表明立法院所提的包括禁法补偿包括过去的老农津贴他基本上认为是没有违宪的那你认为呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8613.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8639.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
基本上如果是法律案的話就立法院的立場是沒有違憲的是在法律案的層面上說就像大家在法律案跟預算案大家都完全不是活在同一個時空當中我們今天為什麼要特別提出來因為呢普發現金我們只問一個特別條例行政院好像傾向於不釋憲我想他目前為止也不敢去釋憲他這次是要比照禁法補償條例裡面直接不編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8640.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8645.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
請問政院不依法編列特別預算的話過去大法官有沒有這樣的見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8646.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8668.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
520號解釋有提出依據憲法正修條第3條第二項模式但是呢我覺得你看這就是我們引用的條文不一樣這次比禁法補償更嚴重的依照釋字第463號的一個解釋特別預算如果不合訂就要退回去因為如果市政院不按照立法院通過特別條例來編列預算的話這才是一個違憲的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8671.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8687.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
你看看463的解釋裡面他是這樣的說法的所以我們引用的條文是這一塊463的解釋是針對特別預算的部分現在的問題是立法院認為是法律案但是行政院認為這涉及到行政院的編列預算的權限 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8688.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8714.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
根据预算法第九十一条的规定也不是这样选法但是我还利用这个机会还是要特别提出来上周我们此次提到的特别预算的条例通过预算到底是如何来编列但还要由大院来做一个解释但我要是特别提醒了本来立法院就有这个立法主动行程权我们在制定特别条例的时候呢会另加这个条文然后呢这本就是我们所固定的条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8714.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8730.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
这固定的一个权限我要特别提醒来在过去90年的时候呢我们通过基隆河流域的特别预算那时候是由料水管委员所提出来柯建民总召当初还是联署人95年通过的石门水库的还有这个特别预算 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8730.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8756.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
是由林正峰委员提出来而且呢都是跟我们现在一样都要依照委员的提案通过特别条例之后再编略预算92年民进党党团那时候有我们的科建民族在这个所谓的严重这个我们的source的时候我们防治基金500亿我们所做的99年那时候的提案人是赖清德我们要为增稳水库制造的特别条例现在所讲的跟过去所讲的都是一样 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8757.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8772.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
都完全是我們提出的特別條例之後委請行政院再編列預算請問這次為什麼我們所提出來你就認為是可能是有違憲之嫌過去所提出來完全過去程序都是一樣的報告委員我沒有說違憲之嫌因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8773.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8801.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
依據520號解釋基本上是兩院應該要依憲法的程序去解釋那是政治的問題大法官不處理這個政治問題那另外呢基本上所謂的行政現在我在書上也表示很清楚不管內閣治國總統制現在已經沒有所謂行政立法的這個制衡的問題都是政黨政治所以政黨政治之下如果政黨能夠在憲政的體制之下協商完成的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8802.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8828.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那當然就不會有爭議的問題所以你認為我們所提出來目前來說上次禮拜所提出來的這個所謂的普發現金這個部分以目前你的理解來說你認為跟過去我所條例了這麼多過去的特別預算條例完之後特別預算應該是符合一致的嗎如果之前可以的話這次應該也是可以嗎如果行政院再提出所謂的事件的話你應該認為這個是完全完全違反我們463號的一個解釋嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8829.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8858.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
因為是完全一樣的 時光背景不一樣但是我們的程序是完全一樣的啊你必須要把這個程序把它搞清楚啊是 報告委員基本上如果 我剛才已經提到現在是一個政黨政治各個政黨如果同意的情形之下就不會有520號解釋裡面所謂要透過第三條第二項的部分去解決了那現在的問題跟以前可能是一樣的因為我沒有去細讀之前的那些預算案的部分一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8859.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8876.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
完全是一样的你应该去细读因为我们今天其实最需要的就是根据几个案例来提出你对于这个很多部分的解释而且最重要是我们现在卓院长好像是事件已经上了瘾一样只要他提出他不喜欢的他就提事件目前像我们总预算案我们的才华法等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8877.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8893.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
而且呢他认为我才特别问你而且你特别提到的你以前提过的行政机关如果提出提出自己的版本这是宪政惯例那以才化法来说的话行政院并没有提出自己的版本啊你认为他是不是违反了我们的这个宪政惯例 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8894.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8900.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我現在只是強調你過去有特別提到行政機關提出自己的版本這本就是憲政慣例而行政院這次沒有我只問你是不是違反我們過去的行政慣例 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8917.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8933.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
有可能這個憲政慣例憲政慣例基本上是如果有中斷的話那當然就有可能這個憲政慣例可能沒有憲政慣例的沒有拘束力跟你過去的說法是不一樣本來就要是提出來然後沒但這次就是沒提你就大膽的講我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8934.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8935.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
因為法律學者是很嚴謹的 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8951.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8974.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
因為單純幾個舉句話我們要去做非常嚴謹的回答恐怕會有遲疑並不是我基於我自己本身立場去做任何回答因為剛才所提的這些問題還有很多配套等等那我就再跟你講一下你過去的一個前輩我們在大法官釋字第三九一號當中那時候大法官蘇俊雄跟劉鐵正他在不同意書裡面就提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8975.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8987.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
目前多事的解釋文並沒有判斷所謂違反責任政治跟權力分裂的一個標準所以說呢你如果單純只用權限的分裂來切割提案權跟所謂的議決權的話這完全會限縮我們立法院調整運算的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8990.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9010.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以今天为什么有这么多预算出来为什么今天大家对于所提出的这个大法官的人选我们要非常的严格因为当我们这么喜欢事先的运把什么都放到你那边去之后你如果完全是根据执政党的意志然后来做出你再当一个诠释的话对我们所出台特别是目前在野党说是非常不公平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9011.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9028.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
所以我们为什么举出这么多的条例包括我刚刚所提出这么多在特别条例里面的这些过去的历史还包括现在我所告诉你的过去的大法官里面在第391号当中他就有出错错的这样的一个诠释你认为你过去的前辈这样的说法你赞同吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9029.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9050.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
報告委員我尊重剛才已經講到法律人對很多問題都要很嚴謹的回答但是有一個問題我可以很直率的跟委員報告我絕對會以超人的地位以我之前一直在貴黨團裡面所提到的很多的問題我都一直認為這是我學者的見解都提供給貴黨團的書面 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9052.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9072.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
但是陈教授学者的一个见解大家说是透过你过去的著作来了解你所以学者的见解跟你今天站在那边当作是一个被提名人我觉得某种程度的脉络是要一致的就诚如你过去一直不断强调你在当考试委员的时候你是超然立场我还是再次的强调考试委员所处理的性质跟我们大法官是不一样 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9073.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9100.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
特别是像此时此刻我们在目前来说没有一次有那么多的院长提出这么多政治性的所谓的视线这就是我为什么对你过去的背景跟你现在的回答我们要严格的来做一个厘清这才是个最主要的一个目的我最后一个问题时间的关系你特别要要特别提到了啊所以当你沿用了不同的一个法条的时候不断的当民进党的委员不断的在这个所谓的特别预算里面不断的提出宪法第70条的时候 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9100.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9119.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我們就不斷的提出了憲法第63條還有包括等等這些都要透過大法官來幫我們做不同的一個釐清你之前也特別提到了美國總統叫國會議長下台就是一個憲政災難這是您過去所提到的在我們憲法的運作上面也是具有總統議會的特徵賴總統宣講的時候表示他要透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9126.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9147.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
選舉打掉了雜質然後在民進黨的代表大會當中他主張就是要公民一起來發動大罷免意義上好像就是你要透過主張改變立法院席次的一個結構來罷免我們的立法院院長那你認為這跟你過去所說的美國總統叫國會議長下台是憲政災難這不覺得也是整個脈絡上也完全是不斷的一個相近的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9148.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9168.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
如果以總統身份的確是不適宜的但是如果個人的話他有言人自由他今天就是總統啊他今天賴清德就是個總統他怎麼會是個人呢他今天所講的每一句話就代表總統的角度來做一個發言我覺得透過這樣一個宣講然後呢藉由這樣的部分來改變國會的結構然後來換掉我們的立法院長我個人認為這個就是憲政災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9170.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9178.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
这就是你过去所主张的是一样但是你没有觉得我们现在整个的台湾社会慢慢往这个方面来做一个趋近这是我们比较担心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9179.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9205.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我還是維持我與一貫的學者之前所說的立法你現在又變成學者了哇塞我真的常常在你的學者跟這個被提名之間的一個角色我常常會覺得有點confused當你提到這個言論自由當你提到人權的時候你認為這是當你提到你過去的時候是一個比較積極對於這個所謂的憲法應要站在一個第一線上對於政治問題裡面你不能夠迴避可是當現在你所寫的這些所謂的書面跟你回應我的問題的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9206.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9228.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
你又變成是比較認為應該是退居不要變成一個公親是一個比較消極的角色所以到底哪一個才是我們現在所認知的這個陳昭彼我認為釋憲憲法就是有政治的素材不能迴避否則就不需要釋憲但是在釋憲過程當中遇到政治力政治力的時候就應該要指出這個界限所在 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9229.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9252.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
有办法做到吗我觉得这就是我们最最非常非常质疑的因为跟过去那个背景虽然你不断的提出来你这是考试委员我还是强调考试委员跟大法官所强调的所面对的事务是完完全全不一样大法官目前为止他应该是很超然的过去我们也从来没有跟大法官有这么多的这样子的一个面对面的这样一个一个接触或者是透过宪法法庭里面来做出很多的政治攻防 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9253.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9272.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
可是現在到底是誰讓他變成把你們每一個人都要被問到都要被質疑到底你的政治立場上面有沒有這樣的不斷的一個偏頗這個就是一個我們目前正在這個地方大家對於您過去跟現在一定要搞清楚到底哪一個才是代表你的這樣的一個部分我一定做到在解釋過程當中好 謝謝柯委員 謝謝被提名人下一位請陳培宇委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9294.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9296.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
好 謝謝主席那有請貝提琴陳教授 謝謝請貝提琴人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9307.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9323.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
陳教授早安我還是直接稱呼您陳教授我想今天在一連串的跟您的對話我今天是最後一個根據您過往的經驗我們看到您還有環境法的專長所以等一下我們會討論這個部分但是我今天想要先從憲政的議題開始談起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9325.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9351.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們在世字499號裡面有提到一個非常重要的事情就是所謂的修憲界限那目前我自己個人認為在之前的這個公聽會上我也提出現在的立法院似乎變成台灣整個憲政危機的源頭整個亂源我認為是在立法院怎麼說過去這一整年當中在整個立法院不管是國會擴權法案或者是相關毀憲亂政的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9355.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9371.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
預算的提案其實我認為實質上都已經干擾到行政院的行政同時他也讓整個憲政體制遭受到非常大的迫害那當然有後續的釋憲案或者是相關的復驗都表現出每一個院當中各自所能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9373.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9389.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
所能夠有的主張因此我認為如果回過頭來看這一整年來的立法院也就是國會代表全國人民意見這個立法院我認為是導致於整個國家出現憲政危機的亂源那當然這是我的見解我並沒有要您在這裡表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9390.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9403.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那我之所以提出這個見解是想要跟您討論我們提到我剛提到所謂修憲界憲論這件事情也就是說本質上重要性的條文不得任意修改我想這是很重要的主張對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9404.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9424.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
是的好那如果我們一般人都有這樣的嘗試更何況是立法委員所以我想要回過頭來請教關於在4至499號解釋當中有提到所謂權利分立還有制衡的原則這件事情也非常重要所以第一個問題想要請教您的看法第一個假設假設因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9424.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9448.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
目前呢有在野黨團他們提出要成立所謂的修憲委員會修憲委員會的主張他們目前我說的是到目前為止他們提出的是要廢止監察院台灣過去是一個五權分立的國家我不知道如果我們用4-499號來看這件事情也就是他打算廢止監察院難道台灣從此以後要變成一個四權分立的國家或者是變成所謂3.5權 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9450.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9465.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
因為我們就不知道後續要怎麼處理這原本五權分立突然如果把監察院廢掉變四權或是三點五權你怎麼看這件事情報告委員我的學者到目前一貫的見解是一致的權力制衡權力分立並沒有說是三權 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9466.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9485.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
或武權不管從英文或者是從中文來講都可以但是一個很堅持的我在書上也一直強調了有多少民意基礎就要擁有多少憲法上的權力擁有多少憲法上的權力就要負起多大的責任這三個是一個等邊三角形 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9486.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9510.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
至於怎麼設計那就是修憲機關的權限基本上我是尊重修憲機關只要符合這樣的一個基本原則任何三權五權基本上並不是一種障礙另外是我們台灣特別有所謂用一個權用一個願來說明事實上在西方國家也並沒有所謂的完全所謂的行政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9510.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9538.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
行政權外還是有很多的獨立機關也就像我們說要在行政院下設所謂公平會或者國家通訊傳播委員會這種獨立機關因為變成一個院下面有一個獨立機關在西方國家有很多並不是一個院內閣或者另外設立一個獨立機關都是有可能的所以我們可能在拘束憲法上面就是院這個字非一個院所有都必須在歸屬一個院下面的這個憲政機關才能夠設立 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9540.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9562.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那這個設立又有可能會是獨立機關可能跟這個院新政權有所本質不符所以之前也有發生過所謂國家通訊傳播委員會的這個組成釋憲的問題等等這些我想這些就是很多前面的很多委員的詮詢我本來要講都沒有時間講就是因為整個的憲政體制 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9563.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9583.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
原本憲法1947年通過那部憲法是仿照威馬憲法除了他民主中立性不夠足夠來捍衛這個自由民主憲政秩序以外其他的設計基本上我是蠻尊重張君邁先生在這一方面的一個設計但是因為七次修憲除了取得民主正當性也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9584.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9604.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
因為這部憲法後來因為動員勘亂時期零食條款以後就失去了他的民主正當性後來回復了有了民主正當性以後呢基本上在這個過程當中七次修憲是枝枝節節的修憲這個是造成我們今天今天會造成這樣的混亂我認為是制度的問題而不是人的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9606.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9626.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
所以您剛剛說的這些混亂其實也是我本來後續要問你不過你都已經說了因為除了這個混亂其實我們難以解決而且很難有全民的共識之外其實還有另外一些議題也就是沒有涉及到修憲的部分因為我們我剛剛說的499是處理修憲的部分但沒有涉及修憲的部分其實還是有權利分立的問題例如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9627.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9643.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
第一個修訂法律癱瘓憲政機關的運作也就是在立法院這一屆提出的限訴法我不知道你有沒有關心相關的細節跟進度第二個刪除大量預算導致於憲政機關難以運作例如說像從去年的年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9644.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9670.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
行政院的中辦或者是監察院的業務費在相關預算案當中被大量的煽動甚至煽到一塊甚至還有機關被煽到負的好這個部分再來第三個是修訂法案的部分大幅擴張自身的權利我在指的是立法院某一些立法委員的同仁們做的事情也就是我剛講這三個情況他不涉及修憲但是在權利分立上他確實的影響各自運作的獨立性甚至癱瘓 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9671.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9690.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
相關的可能性我想就這個部分也請教您的意見這些狀況基本上都是行政跟立法兩者之間對很多意見的不同所形成的那事實上呢基本上這應該不是所謂的這個憲法的這個法律層次的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9691.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9717.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
而是屬於政治層次的問題所以剛才一直我提到的就是剛才委員吹詢一直在提到大法官在520號解釋裡面也一直認為如果涉及到兩院之間的政治意見不同的話應該透過憲法增修條文第三條第二項模式去做處理那雙方如果能夠達到一定的共識或者透過一定的解決的話那當然就沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9718.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9740.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那基本上這個我們在大法官基本上是不去碰觸這個問題所以說520號只提供這樣子的一個憲法的一個規定而已所以在這裡我跟委員報告基本上我還是基本上遵守大法官520號這樣子的一個見解來由行政跟立法兩者去做相關的政治解決問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9740.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9752.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
理想上當然我也很希望達到剛剛陳老師您所說的就行政跟立法如果有好的協商機制協調機制當然我們就不希望引起所謂的信證危機甚至要走到訴訟釋憲這條路不過我想因為現在情況確實不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9756.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9772.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
不過我剛剛很開心聽到你的見解是這樣但是我認為在很多政治上的議題他最後不得不走入憲法法庭的時候其實還是要仰賴大法官您的見解貝提銘這邊那另外我想要提到關於權力分立的部分我剛剛已經講完可是另外一個部分我想要聚焦在司法權 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9772.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9793.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
和立法權的互動上因為身為大法官的被提名人假設未來您真的擔任大法官我相信會不斷的碰上這個議題尤其是在這個情況後續的延續上第一個我想要問有關於憲法訴訟法的爭議當中其實有一個爭議點又是關於國會自律 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9794.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9816.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
還有國會自治的部分自治當然很重要但自律更重要如果我們按照釋字342號的解釋見解如果立法過程當中明顯存在重大瑕疵大法官得宣告其無效我不知道就您的見解來說所謂明顯重大瑕疵的構成要件可能會有哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9817.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9844.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
明顯重大瑕疵是從行政法理論裡面有關就如同很多學者在用一個最簡單的解釋就是如同刻在額頭上這麼明顯的一個痕跡就是違憲的那在585號或者是這次憲判9號大法官基本上都認為這是一個國會自律並沒有重大明顯瑕疵那基本上我是尊重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9845.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9872.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
好 這個部分我們剛剛說的意見也就是你說尊重但是所謂明顯重大瑕疵如果有不同大法官之間的見解那當然我們沒有辦法在這邊細緻的討論完不過我剛剛認為所謂明顯重大瑕疵回到立法院的自律跟自治這件事情因為立法院是要對全國人民交代的那當然它可能有政治部分的見解但對人民交代完成一個良善的立法過程我認為還是相對重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9872.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9892.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那除了我剛剛說立法院自律跟自治的部分接下來我想要問過去不論是在行政在司法在監察其實都面臨立法權想要透過立法或是透過預算的方法來影響機關的正常運作我再次想要跟您請教這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9893.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9920.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
你認為相關機關應該要如何處理來避免自己被立法權癱瘓例如說我知道行政院在過去這一年當中面對立法院很多荒謬的提案行政院進行了復議跟釋憲這都是合法的可以做的事情對嗎接下來監察院在預算的部分他們也提案釋憲這可能你之後還沒有遇到但是司法院的部分目前遇到的狀況是人數不足而沒有辦法受理案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9920.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9946.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
目前只能免為其難受理限訴法的釋憲案那如果當初司法院沒有受理司法院大法官會不會持續被癱瘓也就是說您剛剛說的相關的意見您都尊重相關的協調如果可以進行當然是最好可是實質上在過去一整年當中我們在立法院影響到的狀況已經是我剛剛舉的這些例子了那我這邊是不是可以請您表達一下您的意見跟看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9947.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9962.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
報告委員,事實上剛才很多委員追尋表達很多但是最後一句話沒想再表達的就是都沒有機會讓我表達,感謝委員讓我有這個機會因為限訴法大法官已經受理了,系屬在憲法法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9964.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9984.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這是我想對於一個我們法律人來講我們不應該針對已經細數的案件特別作為被提名人來做任何表達個人意見的看法這個是剛才好幾位委員一直問我一直沒有機會回答這件事情所以要請委員見諒這是我們法律人比較嚴謹的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9984.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9997.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
就已經細數了如果現在還沒有細數可能可以表達個人意見或學術立場但是已經細數了這個法官不予我們必須要去遵守特別作為大法官的被提名人耿偉銓報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9998.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10015.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
好但是剛監察院的部分或司法院的那個行政院部分沒有關係我想您沒有辦法方便在這裡表達您個人的見解如同你剛說但是我認為這是後續假設您真的擔任大法官之後這確實會是您很重要的燙手山芋但我想我們在這裡還是要表達我們的關切因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10016.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10032.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
整個立法院的亂象已經持續一年多我認為這件事情非常干擾立法院正常運作也非常干擾到國人對於立法院的觀感甚至也干擾到所有行政機關對於人民相關的很多措施跟政策的推廣那另外一個最後想要問您就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10033.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10062.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
無論過去大法官解釋的時代或者是現在的憲法法庭通常在大法官做成解釋之後有時候會直接宣告說在一定時間之後相關的律法就會失效給立法者做立法形成的空間有時候是直接宣告無效或者是直接認定應該要如何做如何做那我想相關案例我有寫在這邊我不知道您如何看待這其中的差異是不是會有所謂大法官造法的情況發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10064.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10081.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
報告委員大法官只能補充憲法之不足或立法的不作為但是最終如果涉及到法律的立法方面還是要尊重立法院的立法形成空間希望能夠依照大法官的意旨來做法律的制定 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10081.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10098.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那有關立即失效跟有一定時間的基本上是考慮到法的安定性的問題也就是說如果說馬上立即失效使所有的法秩序完全沒有辦法遵照有一個依據的法律來作為的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10098.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10127.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那恐怕會影響到整個法制序的安定所以基本上會有一定時間的控制但一定時間的控制會有一個問題就是說那是不是代表在這段時間這個已經被宣告違憲的法律還繼續有效呢所以後來大法官也補充做了解釋所有有關機關必須依大法官解釋的意旨來做出相關的一個判決也好或者相關的行政處分也好基本上是這樣子的一個模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10128.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10147.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
來形成所謂的定期失效或者立即失效等等這些內容那當然還有其他的相關細節技術問題在這裡就不再跟再去做進一步的說明因為時間有限了不過為什麼我要特別問這一段呢因為確實在現在的政治氛圍或是公民的氛圍當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10149.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10168.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
確實大家會對大法官做出的相關決議有非常非常多的解讀跟討論但是您剛剛把相關的立場說得非常清楚我想後續再遇到也許有一些政治爭議上的題目的時候大家就可以回過頭來參考陳教授您今天的發言到底是當下立即失效的意義比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10168.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10182.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
還是有相關的立法的實現我想還是要回到您剛剛說的法學專業的部分還有就是所謂的法案定性的部分好 接下來要談另外一個也是最近大家在看大法官會討論到大法官跟民意之間的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10183.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10210.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我想這個相關的議題你應該都非常清楚例如說大法官在討論案件的時候他當然會有個人的見解還有個人的法理見解做成判斷做成論斷這個我們當然都絕對尊重可是過去就會有人認為大法官沒有民意基礎或者是有人會說大法官在審理案件的時候沒有考量民意我想就您自己怎麼看大法官專業法理跟民意之間的關係還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10212.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10217.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
會不會作為您未來在面對相關議案的時候的參考項目之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10219.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10246.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
報告委員基本上大法官所要堅持的是憲法的價值體系跟價值內容但是也不能不考慮我們憲法第二條國民主權原則特別是我們看到國民法官法規定裡面就是依據因為國民主權原則所以要顧及到國民的法律情感及價值內容來形成這樣的一個法律制度所以在兩者兼顧之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10246.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10261.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
去做出對憲法秩序最好的一個決定剛才有很多委員垂詢我一直沒有辦法講說是說我一直堅持我以前的見解現在難道不堅持嗎不是的我們學者的見解可以海闊天空寄予學術自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10262.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10287.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
但是作為大法官的見解必須要堅持維護憲政秩序的價值理念為整個憲政秩序最好的選擇來做出決定所以我剛才要表達的是這個但是很多委員都沒有讓我表達這一塊所以我這邊還再強調一遍大法官雖然有自己的相關的學術見解跟內容等等這些但是如果作為大法官以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10287.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10301.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
一定要為整個憲政秩序最好的一個方向來指出來做說明而不是背離本身的一個學術的良知或價值我想這是必須在這邊補充跟委員報告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10301.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10330.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
所以也就是適當的理解跟傾聽民意也可以作為您後續相關做成決定的參考項目之一對嗎 您的意思是這樣一定是這樣因為我剛才要報告但是委員沒有機會讓我報告在德國的法院判決裡面在判決的前頭一定是以德意志國民之名做成這樣一個判決要兼顧兩者那兼顧怎麼兼顧兩者呢正如剛才委員垂詢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10331.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10356.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
所謂499號的憲法核心的價值理念這是必須兼顧第二個就是國民主權的理念這兩者如何兼顧德國基本法雖然不是用499是以德國基本法79條第三項來說明這個憲法核心的這個部分以及在判決的時候用國民主權讓兩者能夠去橫平來做出對憲法最佳的一個選擇的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10358.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10378.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
你一定很納悶為什麼我要一直問你這件事情因為即將在8月23號我們會有一個公投其實之前我在公聽會的時候我就提過我也不斷在跟在野黨協商的時候提醒在野黨說公投結果的法律未接跟大法官的解釋或憲法法庭的判決未接是不一樣的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10379.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10404.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
如果回到這個前提上我也想要請教您之後我們所會遇到的公民投票的結果如果跟大法官的解釋或憲法法庭的判決未接當然是不一樣的可是如果兩者發生見解衝突的時候該怎麼處理之前其實就有類似的事情就是釋字748號跟2018年的公投我想這個案例您是清楚的可是未來還會有更多的公投我不知道您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10405.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10434.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
報告委員大法官的解釋或者判決基本上是具有憲法拘束的效力所以基本上我們公投法也有相關的要件譬如說涉及到憲法的規定等等是不能夠公投的這個完全要視個案來決定是否有涉及憲法的規定或者涉及到憲法效力的問題如果有的話基本上這個公投的這個做成基本上是有比較有大的意義的 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10435.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10448.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那不過至於怎麼樣去刑訴這個部分還是立法者本身對公投法的相關的一個刑訴當然立法者在刑訴過程當中一定要遵守憲法的一個明文的規定以及憲法價值秩序的一個決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10450.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10469.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
好我只剩一分鐘不過剛剛您所說的確實在過去相關案例跟未來就發生的公投我們確實要各案各案來看可是當然如果公投是有立法者所提起的那回到立法者必須要遵守立法的相關的秩序來看可能在立法院過去這一年當中已經失衡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10469.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10484.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
但是如果未來公投提案是由公民朋友公民團體所發起的那他們所造成的公投投票結果我再次強調如果跟大法官的解釋或憲法法庭的判決有差異的時候我相信未來也會是您的燙手山芋之一對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10485.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10512.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
是的好 那我只剩20秒不過我就沒辦法再問環境法的不過我想今天就這些討論希望後續我們在進行同意權投票的時候我們可以一切順利不過今天很謝謝您在很多法律上的見解包含權力分立還有修憲的部分修憲界限的部分因為我們當然要面臨政治的困境但我認為所有政治的困境都還是要扣回整體社會發展對於台灣民主社會更好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10514.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10542.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝被提名人報告全院委員會對大法官被提名人陳慈揚詢答部分到此為止謝謝被提名人列席答詢上午會議進行到此為止下午2點30分繼續進行對大法官被提名人詹振榮之詢問現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
12109.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
12110.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
12974.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
12975.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
14624.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
14625.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
15492.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
15492.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
17084.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
17084.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
18302.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
18312.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
19605.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
19606.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
21607.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
21620.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
報告全院委員會現在繼續開會進行審查大法官被提名人詹振榮之資格及是否事任相關事項現在請被提名人詹振榮先生說明時間為10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
21634.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
21654.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士先生 大家午安我是大法官被提名人詹正榮現職為國立政治大學法學院特聘教授很榮幸能夠在此接受大院大法官人事同意權行使的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
21655.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
21682.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
以下我僅就我個人的學習歷程專業能力憲法信念以及自我期許等各方面簡要進行說明民國七十六年我進入動物大學法學院就讀有幸正好歷經台灣憲政史上非常重要的轉捩點解除戒嚴野百合學運 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
21684.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
21701.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
終止動員勘亂時期臨時條款也正因為如此我在大學時期便開始對人權保障及憲政機關運作等議題產生濃厚的探索興趣與研究動機 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
21702.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
21730.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我更在畢業之前在前大法官陳新明教授指導之下執行國科會大專生專體研究計畫議題的題目為德國國會與軍隊之間的關係因為這樣的一個初探學術研究的傲堂也確立了我日後決定進行學術研究作為終身質押規劃的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
21733.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
21758.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
畢業以後我進入德國科隆大學法學院修讀碩士及博士學程碩士論文是以地方自治的憲法保障為題而博士論文則是以當時全球一波的民營化議題為主探討國家對於電信網路應有的管制議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
21760.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
21784.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
幸運地在90年7月取得博士學位回國後我先後任教於國立高雄大學政治法律學系及現在服務的單位政治大學法律學院主要教授的科目都是聚焦在憲法行政法等基礎跟進階的課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
21787.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
21813.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
在研究的領域部分我的主要議題聚焦在民營化法、公私協力法及公經濟法並著有多本專論由於研究的議題涉及到國家跟社會在憲法上所扮演角色的典範變權因此我特別關注人民的工作權 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
21815.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
21833.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
營業自由、競爭自由、財產權還有商業性的言論自由等等經濟基本權的保障除此之外地方自治、中央與地方權限之劃分也是我長年來研究的主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
21835.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
21862.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
除了教學跟研究之外我也常年致力於社會參與我尤其熱衷於公務人員及行政法院法官的在職進修課程透過這樣的一個與實務第一線執行公權力的人員的對話讓我能夠深切的了解到國家公權力運作的實際情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
21864.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
21890.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
也使得我的專業知識不僅僅只限於理論也能夠貼近我們目前食物的運作而呈現一個接地氣的從行政法到憲法的垂直整合的特質在市縣食物的參與上面或許因為之前的研究成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
21891.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
21920.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
所以我多次的被大法官指定為專家鑑定人例如說在釋字第794號煙傷贊助廣告案在111憲判6號及萊豬案111憲判第9號公職人員公務人員年終考積零等免職案還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
21922.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
21950.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
後來撤回訴訟提起的性自主前科之人不得終身擔任計程車駕駛的釋憲案其中的部分見解也有幸被大法官所採納成為判決見解的支撐依據大法官所面對的憲法爭議往往具有高度的爭執性 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
21952.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
21972.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
因此我認為一位事格的人選除了專業知識要夠豐碩之外最主要要有憲政核心價值的信念以及獨立行使職權的性格就憲政核心價值而言 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
21973.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
22002.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
人性尊嚴的保障是一個普世價值也是我向來認為從事法學研究必須要秉持的不容退讓的一個核心理念人權保障是如此即便21世紀人權種類的擴張國家干預人民基本權手段的更新例如說導入AI |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
22004.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
22030.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這個都無損於變中的不變就是以人性尊嚴 保障作為主要的憲法理念因此在全憲劃分 權力分立的部分表象看起來似乎是憲法機關彼此之間的一個政治的交鋒但 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
22031.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
22054.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
其實背後的實質精神也是在於避免國家某一個憲政機關過度的擴權與濫權造成人權的不可回復性的侵害最後我在這裡跟各位來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
22055.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
22079.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
若有幸擔任大法官我對於自己的一個執行職權的期許大法官作為憲法的維護者其中在解釋憲法時不免的必須要透過憲政價值的詮釋而擁有解釋的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
22081.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
22106.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
在上個禮拜諸多場次的審查會中委員非常關心的一個議題是憲法理念跟民意兩者之間如何去做一個調適我個人認為憲法解釋固然是以憲法規範及法理作為主要的支撐依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
22107.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
22136.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
但是主流民意他也在一定程度上反映當前國人的憲法意識及對於人權的正義觀在利益衡量時大法官我也期許自己從事大法官職務能夠兼顧各方的多元價值做一個不偏移的判決決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
22138.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
22166.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
再來 大法官的職權具有憲法議題的最後話語權公權力屬性甚強 甚至具有對勢效力在這樣的情況之下 我也期許自己的未來行使職權能夠穩健 不躁進地驅動台灣憲政秩序的穩定發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
22167.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
22193.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
避免因為自己職權的行使反而引發社會更大的紛爭憲政秩序更大的動亂以上 敬請各位指教跟批評 謝謝好 謝謝被提名人的說明現在進行委員的詢問首先請陳委員召諸詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
22204.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
22207.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
謝謝主席 有請備體名人曾教授請備體名人答詢委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
22217.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
22244.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
背題裡面詹教授您好我想先請你看兩張圖這兩張圖都是來自內政部跟主計總處的官方數據左邊這張圖告訴我們從2020年開始台灣就進入人口的負成長也就是說出生的人數遠低於死亡的人數那右邊這張圖是告訴我們過去10年來從2015年出生人口數從21萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
22247.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
22261.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
一直到去年的農年13.8萬今年上半年現在是6.6萬預期不會超過13萬因此生育問題不再是某一些人選擇要不要生育的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
22263.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
22283.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我覺得是整個社會能不能生有沒有辦法生的一個結構性的困境我想請教貝提米人當自然生育沒有辦法去支撐世代交替的時候例如有人因為疾病因為器官缺損等等即便他有胚胎也沒有辦法植入 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
22285.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
22304.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
所以該思考的問題是不是國家應該要有義務給予更多元更可行的一條生育路徑而不是一味的去禁止它所以首先我想跟你談的就是憲法下的生育自主跟家庭形成的這樣的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
22305.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
22332.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
您在書面意見中有提及代理育母制度不再是社會上極少數族群的期盼願望或是需求而已而是當代社會環境下地球公民已經開始要面臨的共通問題且代孕的急迫性與成熟度在立法政策上逐漸提升本席非常認同您的見解雖然您認為目前尚未形成社會共識還需要進一步觀察進展但是請問您是否同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
22333.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
22357.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
如果社會共識永遠無法達成其實我不知道世界上有沒有所謂的共識社會共識如果永遠無法自然形成社會共識那您是否同意國家應該要積極扮演協助制度化的一個這樣的角色國家是不是有義務要去建構有效監督的一個法治的一個選項請貝提您回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
22357.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
22375.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
好 謝謝委員您的提問陳如我在回覆民眾黨黨團的問卷裡面所表示的立場我是支持在目前少子化或者是委員您剛所提到的諸多因素之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
22376.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
22397.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
當生育自然的生育不再具有可能性的時候應該容許有多元的選擇路徑那我也補充說明我在裡面會提到社會共識其實是針對代理孕母裡面孕母跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
22397.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
22423.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
子女之間有血緣的這個部分但是我的立場不是說一定要有共識才可以立法等一下我會再繼續請教您這個部分根據聯合國2024年的世界生育報告台灣去年的總生育率是全世界倒數前幾名只有0.86從生不如死的這個數據來看生育就不是個人選擇問題現在已經進入台灣社會的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
22424.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
22440.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
人口危機跟公共政策請問您是否同意國家有必要重新對我們的人工生殖法的部分就是全面禁止代孕的部分要重新檢討來因應人民有生育自主跟家庭形成的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
22444.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
22469.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
來檢討這個謝謝那您在書面回覆也提到剛剛你剛剛要解釋的話待遇若涉及人工受精模式會涉及親子關係跟奴隸關係的爭議會比較大需要特別審慎那我這裡要要說的就是說本黨所提供提出來的這個人工生殖法的修法版本並沒有納入人工受精這個待遇模式喔而是限定在試管嬰兒胚胎植入的模式那請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
22470.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
22477.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這樣是不是比較符合比例原則跟基本權的保障也比較合乎這個憲法的期待呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
22478.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
22504.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
是 因為他的爭議性比較少立法難度比較低所以您是支持這樣的一個版本是的好 謝謝那目前人工生殖法第11條採的是正面表列規定只有符合符合不孕症跟重大遺傳性疾病的情況的夫妻而且一方至少要具備健康的生殖細胞才能夠進行人工生殖也就是說一對合法的夫妻 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
22505.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
22529.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
即便他們經過醫師的專業評估認為適合用試管胚胎來進行代孕也不得為之那現行的法也未開放任何形態的一個代孕技術使得醫療機構面對這樣的個案或這樣的病人的時候他們因為法律的障礙不敢去施作那你認為這樣是不是可能過度排除了某些其他有需求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
22530.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
22537.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
族群例如卵巢摘除啦子宮摘除這是否構成對生育自主其實是有不合理的一個差別待遇呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
22539.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
22559.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我是支持在這樣的一個方案底下將代理育母制度於納入法律的明文肯認感謝貝提米人那面對節節上升社會需求嘛最近我們看到的是民進黨政府在待遇議題上是以拖待變先騙再說啦一再用脫鉤 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
22560.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
22579.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
為藉口其實根本想放手那即便國際間現在已經有數十個國家他是在嚴格監管條件下允許特定形式的一個代孕那也有很多篇已經發表了這個實證醫學的研究顯示只要在妥善的支持跟規範下有代孕媽媽所生出來的兒童其實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
22580.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
22603.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
在社會跟心理的發展上它都沒有在統計學具有意義的一個負面的影響這是有證據的那另外我要談的就是說針對代孕可能造成的剝削的這個部分的討論第三屆國大代表那個莊盛榮律師他有指出合法化不等於放任喔相反的正因為代孕具有爭議性更需要法律制度來納入專業審查醫療安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
22606.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
22627.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
還有這個心理評估跟契約的保障能夠讓守護每一方的這個權利讓孩子擁有完整的法律的這個保護跟這個家庭的支持如果繼續封鎖這條路大禮物不會消失而且會進入更黑暗更危險更不正義請問被提名的您贊同這樣的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
22629.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
22654.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我贊成在代理育母的議題上面導正是優於目前的意志我的理由在於或許目前在某些團體他會擔心代理育母制度的導入會違反人性尊嚴也就是所謂的將子宮給工具化我個人基本的立場是 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
22656.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
22683.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
在這樣的一個代理育母的合法化的情況之下我們其實是可以透過法治的設計去免除這個疑慮謝謝貝提名人因為幾十個國家都有了我們是可以來規範接下來我要請教貝提名人在江雅琦教授的這個學位造假的學術論理案您是否有參與出審審查工作並且擔任副召集人請你回答是或不是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
22684.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
22701.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那在2021年11月出審審查小組認定江雅琪連續9年她在申請科技部相關的文件上她載入或使人登載法學博士學位造假虛構不存在的一個博士學位名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
22702.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
22720.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
這個情節嚴重的影響科技部審查的判斷而且是資源分配的公正問題所以當時的這個小組他一致決議是停權三年等處分請問是不是有這件事情是您是否支持或同意這樣的一個決議內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
22722.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
22740.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我是學倫小組的一個成員之一也是代表學門進入到誠信班確實有這樣的一個決議跟內容你也確實擔任副召集人那這個決議也是大家的共識那江雅琪當時是台電董事喔你們當初書審小組做出的這樣的建議卻在學倫審議會上 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
22744.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
22764.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
被台電的訴訟代理人萬國法律事務所陳鵬光律師主導推翻了這樣結果你能接受嗎當初我在國科會的誠信辦代表學門去做陳述意見的事我有 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
22765.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
22792.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
堅決的表達學門的立場他被推翻了那我要問的就是這個陳鵬光律師當時是否有利益衝突應該迴避審查呢我的印象是當初在開會之前有討論這件事情後來學陳姓辦的委員決議不需要利益迴避但是他本身不但他是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
22793.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
22808.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
台電的訴訟代理人啊然後江雅琦是台電的董事啊陳某官員不僅沒有迴避審查還主導審查推翻這個這個決議然後護航江雅琦非常的離譜啊您支持嗎您支持這樣的做法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
22809.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
22835.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我跟委員報告當時現場的情況當初在討論利益迴避的時候如果我的印象是正確的那個時候所提出來的室友是好像是大學同學還是同班並沒有提到台電我現在告訴你一個是台電董事一個是台電的訴訟代理人你認為這樣沒有利益的衝突嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
22837.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
22856.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
您的見解呢?如果確實有計劃案件的關聯性的話應該要迴避吧?是好,謝謝貝提名人我進入下一個問題前,我想先請教你你認為我國的總統應該是全民的總統、全民的領袖還是特定政黨的超級領袖呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
22857.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
22878.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
是中華民國的總統當然是國家的總統好謝謝你2009年民進黨黨主席蔡英文公開批評馬英九總統兼任黨主席會讓台灣的憲政進入極大的風險他認為總統不應該身兼黨主席這樣會造成權力分立的失衡蔡英文總統會這樣說是因為我國現在是半總統制 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
22882.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
22909.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
總統同時兼任黨主席他可以直接領導黨務而且可以掌握整個黨發展的方向總統一個人同時掌握行政權跟立法權會破壞在目前的辦總統制下總統和國會互相制衡的一個關係請問貝提米爾您剛剛也提到您是公法專家嘛您也即將擔任大法官從您對憲法的認知對台灣目前這個辦總統制下蔡英文這樣講對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
22912.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
22928.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我的認知至少從憲法的規範角度來講並沒有明文的禁止執政黨或是總統不可以兼任黨主席因為這是一個政治事務跟憲法事務的區隔 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
22929.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
22955.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那當然在這邊基本上我不反對可以兼任黨主席但是要有憲法上的分際也就是在執行憲法職權時謝謝詹教授我們等一下繼續討論結果言猶在有蔡英文她在2016年或2020年擔任總統時她都身兼了黨主席那現在的總統賴清德也是身兼了黨主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
22956.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
22978.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
但是不管是馬英九、蔡英文或賴清德任期內憲法都沒有再修正過喔台灣依舊是半總統制那過去被人家討論的或是蔡英文總統講得那麼清楚的憲政危機權利分立失衡難道會因為換人執政換黨執政就不存在或消失了嗎不會不會好謝謝你 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
22982.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
23004.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
所以總統兼任黨主席在台灣目前的這個半總統制度下有權無責有權無責不僅破壞憲政體制造成權力分立的一個失衡更是全面的棄守全民總統的格局成為特定政黨的超級領袖我想要強調你望遠全世界民主程度越低的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
23005.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
23027.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
他這個權力失衡權力分離失衡的情況是越嚴重的我想請教貝提米您是否同意台灣應該要開啟檢討總統跟政黨主席角色重疊的問題避免讓政黨利益高於或凌駕在國家利益之上呢您同意可以開啟這樣的檢討嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
23030.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
23058.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
這樣的一個思索的方向當然在我們的整個憲政體制的進展當中我覺得是一個可以思考的命題但是我也跟委員報告在當代的憲政運作民主的體制之下他跟政黨政治是難以脫鉤的我理解那個曾教授就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
23060.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
23076.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
檢討還是可以啟動的嘛當然因為還是有人尤其是當事人自己提出這樣的一個見解嘛那如此我覺得才能讓我們好不容易得來的這個自由民主價值繼續深化讓整個國家社會是一個處於一個比較穩定的狀況接下來是國會改革問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
23076.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
23101.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
您的問卷回覆中針對113年憲判制第九號提出不同意見主要有三個部分您的鑑決跟憲法法庭判決不同分別是總統到立法院國情報告官員缺席備詢是得罰還以及公務員不配合調查的時候得移送監察院這些都被判違憲了但是您問卷中的回覆是認為可以進行核限制的 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
23102.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
23130.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
解釋本席先肯定您有提出不同意見的勇氣那我再來請教首先是總統的國情報告賴清德在競選的時候說總統是有義務到立法院做國情報告但是憲法法庭卻說總統並無到立法院做國情報告的義務請問被提名人到底是賴總統說錯了還是憲法法庭解釋錯了總統到底有沒有義務到立法院來做國情報告呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
23130.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
23148.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
以目前憲法的規範是沒有是有的沒有義務沒有義務可以到立法院來報告但是您的見解是可以是我的見解是那一個職權行使法可以做核限性解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
23148.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
23165.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
是可以做核心的解釋那一個因其實是解釋成不具有拘束性去年國會改革修法如果官員無故缺席被尋或是故意拒打立委的質詢經院會決議可以處以罰款後來被憲法法庭又判違憲了 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
23166.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
23188.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
所以這個會議就出現行政院秘書長龔明星他缺席委員會然後國安會秘書長吳釗燮甚至兩度缺席但立法院卻對缺席的委員毫無辦法去克責請問被提名人你認為對於官員沒有辦法盡他的政治責任時給予法律的制裁這樣有違憲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
23191.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
23202.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
我們在司法院釋字585號的解釋裡面當初大法官的判決是肯認 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
23203.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
23218.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
對於不遵守違反國會調查權跟質詢權的官員是可以以行政裁罰的方式因為這是確保調查權有效實施的附屬權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
23221.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
23235.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
其實民進黨在野的時候他非常支持國會要有聽證調查權那去年國會改革的修法也賦予立法院調查權而且對於不配合調查的機關政府機關或是公務員可以移送監察院進行糾正糾舉或彈劾 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
23237.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
23253.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
但這個部分竟然也被判違憲了您在書面回覆有提到說認為這個修法可以解讀成是對機關或是公務人員為師的一個檢舉那促使監察權的職權發動而已應該沒有違憲可不可以請你稍微再說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
23254.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
23270.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
這個在憲判第九號的解釋理由書大法官有做一個說明他說即使是檢舉也會造成憲政機關之間的一個可能是恐怖平衡的失衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
23271.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
23285.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
不過我個人認為這個當然作為有權解釋我尊重憲判的見解但是我個人認為這個部分其實就是一種檢舉促使有權機關去發動他的職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
23287.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
23309.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
謝謝您因為您在書面這樣回答我也希望大家能夠聽到您公開的一個說明那我再請教貝提敏人根據我國憲政體制下的垂直權利分立制度地方政府在自治事項上具有一定程度的自主性中央政府應該是秉持輔導性的原則不要輕易的介入或否決地方的立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
23310.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
23326.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
然而台中市政府依生煤自治條例開罰中火超量使用生煤一案中卻遭行政院以部分條文違反空污法為由橫告無效當地方政府提起行政訴訟的時候最高行政法院也認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
23328.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
23354.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
應由憲法法庭來解釋而不提供實質救濟也就是中央一紙函告那地方政府就只能吞下去只能接受您認為這樣符合憲法中保障的地方自治跟垂直分權的原則嗎如果我的資訊沒有錯誤這個案件應該目前有申請憲法訴訟有沒有受理我不確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
23355.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
23372.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
所以以下我只能做一般式的認證我想請問台中市政府他更嚴格的一個環境保護開發中國是否也屬於地方自治合理的一個範疇呢至少就空汙而言我個人的基本立場是地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
23374.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
23400.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
並不完全沒有權限空屋這個防治的環境保護本來就是應該一個因地制宜的一個做法可是當時這個這個台中市政府依法開罰中火這個1800萬元結果當時環保署禁制撤銷罰單喔那台北這個高層環環境部是沒有權限這樣做的啦我覺得現在是進行中那我想我最後要告訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
23400.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
23418.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
被提名人就說大法官本來就是一個獨立的標杆但大法官做出裁決說應該要秉持公正跟獨立超然的精神請問你,你有這個信心跟決心當你成為大法官之後,您可以超然獨立的行使你的職權嗎?您點頭嗎?好,謝謝陳委員,謝謝被提名人的答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
23432.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
23452.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
蘇巧慧委員之詢問以書面提出,列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請陳玉珍委員詢問謝謝主席,我們有請這個被提名人詹教授詹被提名人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
23461.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
23487.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我看到您在口頭報告裡頭說到您對憲政領域的專業和能力表現會秉持對憲法的信念和自我的驅使會捍衛憲政價值的核心本席表示肯定也肯定您是非常學有專精尤其在行政法的部分應該是國內的翹楚我想特別跟您請教幾個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
23488.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
23503.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
第一個這個行政法的原則就是說在行政活動中要遵守的法律規範指導原則主要包括下列幾點我們先舉其大要者依法行政原則還有誠信及信賴保護原則還有比例原則這個對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
23505.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
23532.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
是沒錯嘛這個是基本的行政法ABC然後我想請問您那前一陣子我們在報道上看到一篇報導就是有關這個陸配的這個相關報導就是這個陸配被剝奪這個參政權這個報導這篇報導是一位李律師寫的他說請修理憲法不要修理陸配他們是台灣人他說這個裡面說到憲法說大陸地區人民為我國人民您贊成這一點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
23534.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
23559.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
從憲法的角度來講我們不會把他視為是外國人對 從憲法的角度來講大陸地區人民不是外國人對吧因為我常常在聽到民進黨的立委在政論節目上那個王一川委員說陳玉珍說憲法說大陸地區人民不是外國人他說這個一點法學常識都沒有您大法官背景跟我一樣沒有法學常識我想請問您 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
23561.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
23582.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
這個不好意思這個國民黨團有一個問卷跟您請教幾點有關這個國家安全保障人權的部分您回覆的重點如下從憲法角度以觀人權的限制本身並不必然當然過程違憲人權的限制來要細膩的審查其他政當事由是否該當然後另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
23582.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
23604.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
就是您承認說在國家安全安全保護之間是一種可能因為社會政治因素不同而擁有變動之可能性然後必然是一種呼應社會現實需要的現實情境調和然後接著在古典的學理上基於國家安全限制一些憲法保障的自由權利必須是 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
23605.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
23623.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
以達有著手危害國家存在的具體限制之程度如果只是單純的意念表達或是不具影響力的鼓吹尚不足以具有限制人權的憲法上正當性這是您的回答沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
23624.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
23636.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
這每個字都是您說的那您提到因為我們這個是討論有關國家安全和人權保障我看您剛剛的報告也相當的注重這個人權的保障那但是您說有一種可能是因為社會政治 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
23638.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
23666.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
因素不同而擁有變動之可能性是一種呼應社會現實需要的現實情境的調和這可不可以再說清楚一點班子們好像是讓大家覺得司法像月亮初一十五不一樣因為社會現實需要的現實情境的融合可以再舉實例說明嗎好謝謝委員的提問也謝謝委員讓我有說明的機會國家安全它是一個不確定的法律概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
23667.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
23689.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
而且對國家安全而限制人權的管制強度跟手段也擁有不同它可能是一個初步的行政管制的限制也有可能是高密度的刑罰或者是這個案例裡面的甚至是驅逐出境我的意思是說在個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
23690.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
23698.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
審查核限信使我們在橫著公益跟私益就回到剛剛委員第一章 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
23700.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
23727.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
檢報檔裡面所談的比例原則我們既要去關注那個公益室友的強度也要關注他干預措施的強度那我用例子來問您這個4-64號明確的解釋人民團體法容許主管機關與許可設立人民團體權得救人民主張共產主義或主張分裂國土之政治上言論之內容為審查並作為不許可之理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
23729.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
23753.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
所以我想請問您下面這四個問題第一個,主張共產主義是不是屬於言論自由?是主張分裂國土是不是屬於言論自由?是主張武統台灣是不是屬於言論自由?是主張用刑法100條來辦在野黨立委是不是屬於言論自由? |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
23755.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
23782.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
以上這幾點 您都認為這是言論上的主張應該是跟劣勢式的看法是從基本權的角度 這個都是言論上的主張就是這些都是一種主張嘛並沒有著手去實施嘛 對吧應該你是從這個角度來出發所以這些都是言論自由那但是呢 您看到最近我們國家做了哪一樣的事情我們國家對於主張這個無從的這個陸配啊做驅逐出境 這等於是做這個人權上很大的這個侵害這個他 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
23784.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
23800.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
你的說法跟這個陸委會的說法不太一樣跟我們行政院說法不一樣行政院就是陸委會我們在這個行政機關認為主張武統台灣不是一個言論自由這是危害國家安全那您的說法是所以我很擔心等一下如果民進黨委員詢問的時候這個好 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
23802.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
23827.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我們下一題啊 憲法徵求條例第十一條自由地區嘛 我們中華民國憲法自由地區與大陸地區人民權利義務關係其他處理是用法律為特別之規定就是我們說台灣地區與大陸地區兩岸人民關係條例嘛就這個條例嘛這個剛問過 因為您說過這個 請問您大陸地區的人民是不是中華民國的人民這個您剛說過是嘛按照憲法徵求條例來講那 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
23829.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
23856.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
除了這一件剛剛說這個驅逐陸配這個主張無統顏論的被驅逐這個人權受到侵害以外齁最近行政機關做了一件事情他要求陸配 陸配 您知道嗎您不知道有沒有關心這個時事就是很多陸配來台灣已經很久了二三十年而且已經取得中華民國的這個身份證明但是我們的政府機關說當時你們證件可能補不齊所以要求你們補除籍證明齁兩國人民公共條例是有規定涉及台灣要繳交除籍證明齁那請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
23857.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
23877.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
當時在給這些證件的時候,也許是補得足或補足,也許有補足也有補不足但是在事後已經經過二三十年後,才又要求這個人民繳交當初應該繳交過的文件請問在法律上,法律上是可以追溯繳交當初應該繳交過的文件嗎?在這個行政措施上你的看法怎麼樣呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
23878.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
23907.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
你知道我在問的題目吧我了解這個可能會涉及到如果當初在法律的規定裡面就必須繳交對必須繳交但是只是行政便宜讓相對人能夠延緩但是他時候已經取得了已經給他這個相關的證明了對就給他身份證明了一個消極的行政不去執法的作為可否作為信賴的基礎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
23909.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
23927.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
經過這30年後 或者是有實效性或是有怎樣 我想請教這一點您的看法呢通常我們在學理上所講的信賴保護 或者是不得溯及適用它的前提必須要有一個積極的受益的行政行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
23928.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
23954.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
所以說您的意思是說因為當初是消極的不作為行政不作為所以現在要求他去補當然我知道要求補是一定可以的這個沒有問題但是如果他沒有補的話是不是可以因此而剝奪他的身份權中華民國國籍他們已經取了身份證這樣的權利做這樣的對人權的侵害跟所謂的因為他沒有補交這種比例來講您的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
23955.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
23972.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我的看法倒是不會這麼樣的一個非黑即白的不是非黑即白現在就要執行法律啊這樣沒有佼佼是不是應該被剝奪他中華民國國民的權利呢我的意思是說因為畢竟這是長年以來憲政不積極執法的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
23973.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
23998.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那在這樣的一個情況之下我們在解決目前面臨到的困境有沒有可能以一個比較這個折衝的方式來解決這個問題所以不過我知道這是後面的話但如果今天行政機關就說好三個月內五個月內一年內你沒有繳交我就是要剝奪你這個身份就是一樣驅逐出境像剛剛那個武統陸配他的言論自由他被驅逐出境那你也認為這樣是合憲的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
24001.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
24025.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
有沒有因為用國家安全的理由或因為你的行政以前的消極不作為而剝奪人民的這個人權呢有沒有達到變成到侵犯人權的結果呢是不是何憲文好沒問題有沒有侵犯人權呢人權當然有侵犯到但陳儒剛剛跟我原報告其實我們在做如果您身為大法官這樣的事情到了憲法法庭你會怎麼做判斷呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
24027.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
24030.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
還是要看個案當中我剛講的就是這樣案子 已經是通案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
24034.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
24057.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
沒有回答 沒關係 好 那個想請問您 剛剛我聽到您在跟這個陳昭之委員 訊答的時候他說這個馬英九總統 蔡英文總統 賴清德做的憲法這個就是總統兼任這個黨主席嘛就是兼任黨主席這件事情我剛剛聽您的意見 好像您是贊同兼任嘛因為政黨政治他並不是違反憲法上並沒有違反憲法 但您是贊同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
24059.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
24082.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
這個是政黨政治運作的現實所以是贊成嘛對不對尊重啦 贊成嗎所以現在是要進行我想請問您的看法嘛當然尊重 我們都尊重啊我們也沒有辦法不尊重啊您的想法今天你如果當總統好了 你會堅韌嗎從政黨政治的角度來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
24084.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
24103.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
我認為只要他不逾越憲法上作為總統職權的界線所以您是贊成的好沒問題這個我沒有特定答案我只是想知道您的想法跟您以前一貫主張的想法是不是一貫之2015年的時候我再看到您有一個有一個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
24104.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
24119.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
文章裡頭寫到總統政黨與國會之相互關係裡頭以政黨影響國政之憲法基礎建立中心這是您的文章說到黨國分立原則作為法理基礎但是國家與政黨要保持一定距離不容黨政不分 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
24119.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
24139.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
基於民主憲政體制所導出的黨政分離原則政黨影響國政領導也應該有其憲法上的界限所以呢如果以黨主席身份為國家影響這個藍營分析界分為憲政上面由總統兼任黨主席上述國民黨兩黨黨章的兼任規定應該要刪除比較妥當 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
24141.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
24156.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以在2015年的時候您認為說不應該黨政不分就是說應該政黨的主席跟這個總統不應該不應該兼任但是你2025年的時候想法可能就是覺得說這個政黨政治所以也是一樣初一十五不一樣下一題請問您 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
24160.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
24186.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
中華民國憲法徵修條例第十條第十二項就是有關這個澎湖金門馬祖地區就是中國國家要經過依照民族意願要對這個教育交通水利衛生醫療經濟土地社會福利還要扶持出去發展的辦法與法律這是針對原住民對金馬澎湖的一樣的民眾也要做一樣這樣憲法上的這個保障我想請您看一下我們金門鄉親上實際上遇到的這個實際上的困境您看一下這個圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
24188.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
24210.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
你看這個禁限制水域金門的禁限制水域這個是中華民國畫的依照兩岸人民條例29條規定是禁止大陸的船進入這個水域裡頭禁限制水域紅色跟黑色的有沒有看到禁止跟限制水域禁限制水域因為金門離大陸很近你理解嗎在廈門的旁邊所以我們把它畫起來禁止大陸船跑到金門的這個禁限制水域裡頭你們看懂了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
24211.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
24241.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
那他這個意思是怎樣 限制 禁限制大陸的漁船跑進來嘛大陸的船舶跑進來嘛那相對的我想請問您啊這個可是海巡署在執法的時候反倒是禁止金門的漁船不能超出這個禁限制水域跨出去就變成要被起訴這個禁限制水域原來是在限制大陸的今天變成我們劃地制限啊金門的漁民他的權利呢 他反而不能跑出這個這條禁限制 這些禁限制水域裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
24242.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
24262.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
您覺得這樣沒有侵犯到我們金門漁民的捕撈權利嗎就我們只能在這個圈圈裡頭捕撈不能超過這條線 這條線原來是禁止大陸進來的反而今天執法單位變成禁止金門漁民出去您覺得這樣是正確的嗎然後把他們都移送到地檢署 好幾百件 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
24265.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
24283.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
因為我對這個的前提狀況不是很清楚那如果按照剛剛委員所描述的事況我會理解為那個禁制區確實就是一個禁止大陸地區或者是外國的漁船進入到的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
24284.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
24301.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
當初畫的都是這樣子啊沒錯啊29條規定啊那為什麼現在它變成執法單位變成禁止金門漁民出去啊把我們自己畫起來畫地支線畫起來然後接著如果跑出去船開出去的漁民全部被移送到金門縣之後這個金門縣現在有數百件啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
24302.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
24323.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那這種執法有依法執行嗎?紅線以外是中華民國的臨海管轄區域嗎?這個我不太清楚當然是中華民國啊!中華民國啊!只是說現在因為我們有大陸禁嘛,他就畫起來不讓大陸進來嘛結果我們出去也犯法這個東西是不是有疑問啊?好!有疑問嗎?你覺得? |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
24325.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
24342.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
因為我對於基礎事實跟法律沒有基礎事實就跟你講這樣如果我講不對這個當然答案不是就不會是這樣子啦我的基礎事實就是這條線即限制隨意就是二十九條規定了兩年規定二十九條規定禁止刀魚船進來那現在我們的人民出去了他說金門漁民也不能出去喔這樣違法喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
24342.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
24361.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
然後被送到地檢署喔 幾百件喔如果立法的目的是在禁止外傳進入的話那這樣的一個規範確實就是榮有商榷的餘地啦但是前提就是我剛剛講的前提就是這樣所以這樣的執行會變成怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
24364.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
24379.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
這樣的執行會怎樣我剛沒有聽清楚你說如果立法規範確實是這樣子我有立法規範確實是那這樣子的執行現在相關單位主管單位這樣的執行法律會變成是怎樣逾越立法的目的逾越立法目的好謝謝您 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
24379.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
24399.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
再請問您現在美國現在在我們國家在跟美國討論這個關稅那美國可能提出一個條件就是針對美牛跟美豬的這個進口的部分要求我們放寬這個萊克多巴胺這個萊劑的這種包括標示包括標示然後這個牽扯到中央跟地方剛那一題財中那個也是中央跟地方陳委員問到也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
24400.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
24424.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
如果我們國家在這個關稅談判以後我們就是放寬了就是說這個接受美國的條件就是來豬來牛這些進來的時候不標示不標示產地那這個產流標準比照這個所謂的國際原則就是接受美國的條件接受進來以後請問各個地方政府可不可以記以保障為了學生營養午餐健康為了學生健康的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
24424.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
24437.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
要求自行要求在比如說我是金門縣我要求在金門地區的這個來租租或是有標示是不是含有萊克多巴胺這是中央跟地方這個權限您的看法如何呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
24438.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
24456.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
在萊豬案的前提之下要不要標示含有萊克多巴胺我個人認為這個是地方擁有自行決定的空間但是如果今天我們的情況改變就是透過新的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
24459.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
24469.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
將標示義務的規範入法標示義務的規範入法就是他因為有一個跟當初做來案時不同的法規範基礎那就另當別論 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
24470.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
24498.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
但是在沒有改變的以現在的情形我認為標示跟食材的選用這個是地方有空間的好您的意思就是說假設今天談判的結果這個萊豬萊牛我們因為美國要扣關進來所以我們就答應了美國讓萊豬萊牛標示就是不標示但是還有萊克多巴胺的這個豬跟牛進口然後不標示讓他們進來就不標示不標示說有沒有含但是這個進口這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
24500.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
24521.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
之前有提到這個殘留標準這些都標準是中央訂定的這個有回答到但是呢在地方是不是要採用或地方要不要標示比如說我是金門縣政府我就決定說為了保障我們金門地區學生營養午餐的安全我們就要求說要使用在學生的這個營養午餐上面一定要做標示那這個是核限的對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
24522.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
24538.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
因為萊豬案的法院的判決憲法法庭的判決的設成範圍不及於標示的部分他只去處理關於萊劑的指定的權限是在中央或地方而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
24539.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
24565.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
好 謝謝您那我們在問卷裡頭您有提到德國聯邦憲法法院曾經有危害自由民主憲政秩序國家安全委員會將兩個敵視憲法的政黨宣告解散那請問這是您提到的這個德國有這樣的做過這樣敵視憲法的政黨宣告解散請問如果主張消滅中華民國憲法另外創制新憲法在德國聯邦憲法法院標準裡頭是不是符合解散政黨的要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
24568.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
24597.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
您看一下這個題目憲法我再提示一下憲法訴訟法第77條政黨 我把這條列完憲法政黨之目的或行為危害中華民國之存在或自由民主之憲政秩序者主管機關得申請憲法法庭為宣告政黨解散這判決那前提就是你有提到嘛德國的聯邦憲法這個法院是說以危害自由民主秩序國家安全把敵視憲法的政黨宣告解散 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
24597.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
24619.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
所以如果我們今天我們國內有一個政黨主張消滅中華民國憲法要另外創新憲法這樣子是不是符合解散政黨的要件如果他的主張是認為我們現行的憲法不合時宜而另行制憲影響到中華民國的存續這個部分我認為不會構成違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
24622.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
24647.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
意思就是說假設今天我們認為說把中華民國的中華民國這個繼續存在但是把中華民國改國號改為台灣共和國台澎金馬共和國金門共和國中華民國改成金門共和國這也是合憲的是吧這個跟剛剛那個情況就不一樣因為他的這個國家主權的統一性可能就會改變我剛剛回答的前提是 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
24648.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
24676.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
在認同中華民國的主權前提之下我們制定一部新的憲法這個是可以的這是可以的但是把他改名可不可以呢這個就會涉及到國家存續的所以不能改名但是可以制定新憲好謝謝陳委員謝謝被提名的人下一位請陳俊宇委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
24693.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
24709.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好 謝謝大會主席我們江副院長有請我們大法官被提名人請被提名人答詢好 詹教授五萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
24712.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
24733.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
恭喜您被提名為我們這個大法官那也感謝您在這個關鍵的時刻願意承擔起首務憲法這個憲政秩序的一個重責大任那今天也很榮幸有這個機會可以在國會殿堂與您一起來探討我們憲政與人權的相關議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
24734.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
24760.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那你也是本次我們審查這個名單最後一位的一個大法官被提名人那有沒有信心對於這一次的提名能夠順利過關謝謝委員的鼓勵我盡我所能好那也在此祝福預祝您在這個提名的過程裡面能夠順利過關讓憲法法庭儘早恢復這個正常的運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
24761.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
24768.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
過去也不乏有優秀的學者轉任我們憲法的守門人的角色對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
24770.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
24794.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
這個國家根本的制度發揮有了這個深遠的影響那接下來我想進一步針對您本於這個大法官的這個理念及挑戰以及社會所關心的相關議題來和您做一個討論也請詹教授能夠完整的說明您的看法那大法官一任的任期是八年 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
24796.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
24821.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
若您與其他的被提名人能夠在這次的審查過程順利通過的話任期將會到2033年考量到政經情勢的一個變化以及民主政治的一個發展放眼到8年後的這段期間您認為我們憲法法庭所面臨的最大困難及挑戰會是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
24823.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
24843.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
好謝謝委員的提問這個時程還蠻遠的所以當然世事變遷難以預估不過請容許我以目前我們的政治現況跟委員來做回覆跟報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
24845.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
24855.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
如果能夠有幸出任大法官我想我立即會去面臨到的困境大概有兩件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
24856.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
24881.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
第一個就是在大法官的職權行使上面關於這個限訴法的修正當然未來釋憲的結果如何難以預測但是依照目前的修法狀況他會讓整個大法官一決平易的難度拉高那這個可能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
24882.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
24907.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
好處是它增加了公信力但是面臨到的困境是其實裡面的共識更難形成這是程序面我初步想到的實體面就是向來申請憲法解釋人權案件高達98%以上不過以目前我們的政治生態 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
24909.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
24932.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
憲政機關之間的權力分立的爭議可預期的案件量會大增權力分立的釋憲其實他會面臨到很困難的一個困境這是除非憲法是強制規定否則的話他不免還是擁有一個價值判斷的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
24933.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
24945.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
所以我們從憲判9其實已經得到這樣的一個啟發我相信這個也是有未來會去面對的一個困境跟挑戰好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
24946.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
24971.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
在今年3月的時候我們大法官被提名人介紹的記者會上我們蕭美琴副總統曾表示我們之前賴總統對於被提名人有三個期許第一就是要守護自由民主的憲政制度來捍衛人權、保障及人民權利的一個救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
24972.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
24980.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那第二是要提升我們國安這個案件的專業能量確保國家安全及連任的政治 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
24980.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
25004.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
第三是要持續推動司法改革提升審判品質這個效率同時進行司法工作環境的一個減壓那當然其中有涉及司法行政的這個部分是屬於政府院長的全責了那未來若您能順利來擔任大法官您認為應該如何達到以上三個期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
25006.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
25024.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
好 謝謝委員蕭副總統如何對這次七位被提名的大法官被提名人的定調這個其實當初在程序上我們其實是不清楚這樣子的一個期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
25026.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
25041.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
但是在這個的前提之下我個人認為第一個期許這個本來就是大法官的職責維護自由民主的憲政秩序本來就是作為大法官理應捍衛之事 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
25042.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
25065.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
那第二個部分 國安 這或許是有行政職的部分 針對我們一般的司法審判的議題但是回到大法官的關聯性上面 正如剛剛跟其他委員的答覆國安它可以是限制人權的一種公義適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
25067.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
25088.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
但是它不会是绝对优先的一种理由所以如果未来在行使大法官职权时还是会回到个案里面去衡量跟斟酌在这里所涉及到的国安的保护的强度为何 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
25089.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
25102.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
所以這個部分我倒不認為國安的能量必然是因為這樣的提名而會有所提升的至於說四大改革這個陳如剛委員所說這可能是比較涉及到 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
25104.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
25124.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
司法行政的面向那我也只能說站在大法官的職責我會盡其所能的加速在自己能力範圍內讓案子能夠早一點達到這個裁判的可能性來消化目前正在排隊冗長的這些案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
25125.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
25147.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
好,謝謝我們教授的這個詳細的說明那我們也談到對於這個大法官的一個期待那多半會提到對於人權保障的一個議題畢竟這個憲法作為人民基本權益的一個後盾在面對社會的這個快速發展之下也必須與時俱進 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
25149.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
25164.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
那在您的報告書當中第五頁有提到說您對於憲政核心的一個理念是人性尊嚴的保障與提升並且面對社會急劇的變遷認為人權保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
25167.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
25193.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
仍然有諸多需要提升的地方那我想了解的是若您擔任大法官在未來的這個任期當中您最關切的這個人性尊嚴人權保障的議題及您認為這個很更不變的這個普世價值會是什麼大法官不僅僅是人權的守護者 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
25194.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
25201.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
他同時在職權範圍內也盡可能的能夠作為人權的促進者 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
25202.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
25227.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
當然如果有相關的憲法訴訟的案件進來在不違反這個司法被動的原則之下我有機會能夠去這個表述一些人權精進的看法的話我會覺得我們目前有一些像我在口頭報告裡面所表述的像受刑人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
25229.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
25249.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
這個參政權像剛剛這個陳昭之委員所提到的生育權甚至我們目前因為社會的變遷年輕人買不起房子這種所謂的氏族的這個居住權這個其實在兩公約裡面都有去提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
25250.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
25262.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
部分他是比較具有前瞻性的但是如果真的有訴訟案件進來的話我也會很樂意在上面去落實這樣比較前瞻性的人權的實現 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
25264.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
25288.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
好 那就誠如剛剛教授您所說的不管是在人身自由還是年輕世代氏族居住權的促進等等這方面我也希望說我們未來如果有機會在這個職務上應該要多多來重視保障他們的基本權益那再來我是 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
25289.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
25315.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
就針對這次審查過程當中,有很多委員都有提及的關於憲法法庭運作的能力的相關問題我想還是請教我們被提名人至去年的10月31日7位的大法官卸任之後,司法院至今對於目前只有8位大法官在任 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
25317.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
25326.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
對於這個先前人事案未能順利的通過那使得大法官人數一直都無法湊足也沒辦法補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
25326.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
25354.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那同時在去年的12月20號這個國會通過這個限訴法修正案並且於這個今年的1月23日正式實施其中第30條有關憲法判決評議的這個門檻規定做成憲法判決至少要10位大法官參與評議宣告違憲的部分也需要9位以上大法官同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
25356.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
25377.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
司法院曾在去年的新聞稿當中也提出示警表示此舉將不利憲法審查與效率並且與人民基本的權益保障會有風險事實上自新法實施至今,尚無任何憲法判決的作成 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
25378.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
25405.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
那再進一步觀察今年5月12日現任大法官雖然曾就此召開這個說明會但也僅就程序受理的這個要件提出說明並為就新法的這個核限性進行實質的審查現在不僅無法做成判決連是否能夠收案都成了一個非常大的一個問題那在此 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
25406.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
25435.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
制度困境之下未來您若擔任大法官要面對的是大法官人數不足卻有憲法疑義需解決的情況之下您認為憲法法庭是否仍然應先行受理案件由現行的大法官就受理的要件或程序這個核限性進行審查還是說應該等人數補足之後再來審理那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
25436.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
25448.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
或是有其他的制度解釋的空間讓憲法法庭維持最低限度的憲政功能不被癱瘓以上這幾個問題是不是請教授簡單的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
25453.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
25472.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
委員的這個問題其實難度蠻高的目前在學界確實有這樣的一個討論就是以目前的八位大法官有沒有可能進入實質審查那這最主要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
25473.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
25495.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
真點就在於說可不可以用修正前的限速法來作為程序進行的準據可以嗎如果可以的話那當然這個就解套了我個人本身是比較不持這樣的一個見解即便即便 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
25496.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
25522.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
它將來被我們的憲法法庭宣告為違憲但是它畢竟是一個三讀通過而現行有效的法律所以從這個觀點來講目前憲訴法的三十條的規定似乎我個人的看法用舊法去審空間並不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
25523.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
25552.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那有沒有什麼制度上的選擇去解套以我目前有限的知識確實很難想到有什麼比較理想的方案那當然最理想方案當然就是說我們趕快讓這個低於10位以下的主持人能夠把他母數補足讓他盡早的回復應有的憲政功能這也是我們期待的 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
25553.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
25566.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
再來我想請教被提名人,有可能在未來任期內直接面對的一個重要的憲政問題,也就是中央政府總預算大幅的刪減與凍結所引發的憲法爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
25569.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
25584.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
那根據這個釋字第391號解釋大法官雖然肯認立法院在審查預算時有調整與刪減的這個權限但也特別提及不得比照這個法律案 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
25585.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
25599.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
逐條修正並應尊重行政機關整體編列的邏輯與功能我想國會的刪減不應該侵害其他憲法所賦予的行政機關整體編列的 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
25602.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
25625.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
核心職權及它的基本運作的能力因此我想請教教授您認為針對特定機關的業務費集中三減若使得該機關難以履行其憲法職責是否有可能違反憲法上的權利分立原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
25627.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
25653.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我們憲法當中對於預算提出權跟預算審議權它的框架規範其實是相當薄弱的那如果按照剛剛委員您所提出的假設命題如果它成就的話也就是說預算的三減足以 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
25655.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
25681.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
癱瘓一個憲法機關他的法定職權的行使在這個情況之下就有可能逾越憲法當中的權力分立及機關忠誠的原則至於說有沒有達到實質癱瘓或者是形同虛設這樣的一個情境那可能還是要看具體三檢的狀況而定 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
25684.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
25711.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
我們也看到監察院已經在3月份申請釋憲行政院也在5月份對於總預算也申請釋憲但由於大法官人數未達評議門檻尚未實質的來審查但如果總預算案被宣告違憲接下來如何補救也會是一個非常大的問題依照比例原則通案來分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
25712.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
25732.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
您認為有沒有具體的判斷三檢是否逾越必要程度的標準或界限而基於各機關憲法職權的尊重我們應該如何與立法院預算審查的職權之間能夠取得一個平衡點 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
25734.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
25763.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
好 謝謝委員因為案子細數我大概就只針對我自己的想法做一般性的回應預算審議權不代表沒有界限成了我剛剛跟委員報告的那目前不管根據大法官的解釋意旨也好或者是相關的學說的見解也好比較穩定的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
25764.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
25789.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
法定經費這個部分是不能刪的也就是說例如說像維持一個機關常態運行的公務人員的人事費這個部分是沒有刪除的空間再來我們大法官在釋字601號涉及到那個時候大法官的司法專業家籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
25791.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
25810.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
被立法院以預算案的方式去刪除那在601號的解釋裡面我們大法官認為這不僅僅是一個這並不是一個立法院可以刪減預算的裁量權 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
25811.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
25833.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
他50更是憲法80條81條的一個法定憲法上的必要的支付項目那如果今天碰到這個底線大概會比較清晰的他會涉及到在這裡會有危險之餘好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
25834.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
25850.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
時間因素,在此我也謝謝我們被提名的詹教授今天非常詳細的一個回答上面的這些問題那您的這個理念跟看法我們都非常的明白 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
25850.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
25868.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
那大法官不但是我們憲政秩序跟民主制度的一個守護者那因本於這個獨立專業與良知來審理這個憲法相關的訴訟案件並做成這個裁判那也是保障我們人民基本權利最堅強的一個後盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
25869.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
25892.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
那您在憲法上的觀點價值上的判斷都會直接影響到台灣未來的一個在自由、平等與法治上的一個走向那我由衷期待停擺多時的這個憲法法庭能夠盡速的恢復正常的運作朝野能夠秉持專業的這個審查的態度來行使同意權更希望能夠透過今天國會的這個對話能夠讓社會大眾了解您對於這個憲法的這個理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
25897.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
25916.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
以及作為大法官所具備的這個私人性那謝謝我們今天大法官被提名的詹教授也祝您一切順利謝謝委員謝謝詹委員謝謝被提名人報告全院委員會休息十分鐘休息之後繼續進行詢問現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
26798.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
26826.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
全院委員會現在繼續開會,進行委員詢問,請牛委員許庭詢問謝謝主席,我們詹貝提名人有請詹教授午安,辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
26828.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
26851.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
今天針對大法官被提名人提一些問題想跟您就教、跟您探討首先是有關於司法改革的部分根據TPPS今年5月15號公布的賴總統就任週年的民調司法改革是所有政策裡面滿意度最低的一項只有30%的人認為是滿意的而有高達58%的民眾他其實是非常不滿意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
26852.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
26877.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
那麼美麗島電子報在今年4月28號的民調大概有59.3%的人認為在司法的部分政府出現選擇性辦案的狀況57.9%的人認為政治利益介入檢調機關辦案57.6%認為政治介入司法案件差不多都有六成左右的民意對於現在台灣司法的各項表現是持非常高度質疑的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
26879.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
26896.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
那麼司法改革的成效您覺得推動到現在,您覺得表現如何?司法改革是不是應該要重視我們整體社會對於司法的信任程度?換言之司法公信力要如何來確保?您目前針對司法改革的表現,您是滿意的嗎?謝謝委員的提問 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
26900.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
26925.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
司法改革的議題其實幾十年來一直是一個問題那前面幾位被提名人其實也有去回應他的成因何在那如果委員您是問我個人的一個看法的話當然司法改革不得不去考慮到民眾對司法的信賴 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
26926.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
26946.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
畢竟它是一個跟人民息息相關的事情人民對於國王的徵抄有所懷疑後面的公權力的行使其實都會受到撼動沒錯所以我認同委員這樣的一個看法司法改革當然要參著民眾的可信賴性 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
26947.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
26971.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
好,你又要掺著民眾的可信賴性,那我們就針對這個民眾認為政治力介入司法這樣的一個狀況,我們來稍微進行一下深入的一個討論因為您在幾個自傳裡面我大概也拜讀了,你寫說獨立審判其實是不可退讓的嘛,這個其實是法律人的非常重要的一個原則嘛如果不管是各級法官上到憲法法庭、下到各級法院,如果出現了獨立審判被質疑、被破壞的一個狀況,那其實就會出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
26972.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
27000.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
司法公信力不足的狀況連帶會造成非常多的災難那您認為現在的司法有獨立而且不受政治力影響嗎您可不可以保證擔任大法官之後自己或同僚不會受到政治力的影響我可以保證我自己不會受到政治力的影響我沒有辦法幫其他的人來做擔保這個是我很誠懇的跟委員回覆至少我自己可控的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
27001.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
27023.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
我可以在這裡做一個保證其實這個就是大概是最抽象但是也最難回答的題目因為我就舉一個例子好了比如說上一次我們在進行大法官的人事同意權的審查跟投票的時候到最後我們劉靜儀被提名人她到最後其實是被民進黨也一起封殺因為按照最後的票數的結果來看因為民眾黨是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
27023.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
27049.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
如果當初執政黨願意支持執政黨自己提出來的大法官的人選他其實是有辦法過關的但後來我們這個執政黨黨團的總召柯建民是講說封殺的理由是因為他多次辱罵民進黨所以如果支持他我們就要開除黨籍這樣算不算是一種政治力的介入您怎麼看待這樣的事情大法官適格性的審查我個人的解讀應該是專業知識 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
27053.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
27073.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
操守風骨跟獨立性除此以外當然站在大院的立場必須也要為選民而來把關但是應該還是環繞在那幾個因素我覺得才是一個審查的核心標準好 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
27076.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
27098.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
謝謝因為我們之所以會這樣問因為這個我想也不是針對您個人而是所有被提名的大法官審查的時候普遍上社會都會很擔心尤其是現在的政治局勢是比較紛亂的在這樣的一個情況之下社會上都會擔心我們會不會到最後立法院通過最後都是會配合政治期待的大法官而不是獨立自主的大法官這樣子的一個社會的要求跟影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
27099.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
27126.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
總是有一些質疑我們今天既然代表民意我們就把這個東西如實來做反應那請問您要如何在司法信任度很低的這樣一個環境之下建立您個人的未來有沒有機會做大法官您如果確保自己的公正性您能不能提個具體的例子或怎麼樣來做一下說明好 謝謝委員讓我有補充說明的機會我不論是在口頭報告或者是回覆各黨團的問卷裡面我都提到這樣的一個觀點 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
27130.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
27150.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
維持審判獨立它是一個主觀上的確信如何讓外界的人民能夠知道這個主觀上的確信確實是客觀可信的我擔任學術研究工作者擔任學校的老師超過20年的資歷 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
27152.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
27180.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
我的著作應該也不算少其實這個就是一個可檢驗的客觀標準可以看我是不是有見解的擺盪是不是在論述當中提出具體有效的說法跟邏輯對不對有傾向於特定的政治立場所以換言之你可以保證在您過去教學的歷程中或曾經出版的著作中所行述的這些原則跟標準會被帶到如果你有信就任大法官的話他會成為這樣一個準則我可以這樣解釋嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
27182.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
27185.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
是的 我目前也是这样的一个看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
27185.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
27214.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
好 謝謝那我們接下來針對幾個因為現在這個憲法法庭好像這個越來越來越吃重了非常多的因為憲政爭議等等或者是其實他單純只是行政立法之間的一個僵局然後好像動不動都要上綱到憲法法庭來做討論那既然立法院是民意的機關那這些相關的一些法案我們也希望可以了解一下被提名人的看法首先我想請教一下這個被提名人針對財政收支劃分法的看法因為這我有特別做了一點點功課 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
27215.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
27231.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
政治大學的講堂上面,其實你有把這個當成一個暗幣,來跟學生來做研討跟說明其實這個簡單來說,在野黨大家都認為說我們增加了分配給地方政府的這樣一個裁員,有助於改善城鄉差距也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
27231.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
27245.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
或者是加強地方自治、地方政府施政的效率等等這些好處就不再贅述那麼執政黨當然認為這個影響了中央施政的節奏跟計畫那最後他們採用的方法是用釋憲的方式他們認為這個違反了憲法第147條 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
27249.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
27261.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
憲法第147條講說中央為謀省與省之間的經濟平衡發展對於評級是省那當然是用省這個字當然是因為它過去的時代脈絡但簡單來講其實就是對於地方政府應該要著於補助為了謀求縣與縣之間的經濟平衡發展應該著於補助它是一個原則性的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
27267.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
27291.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
詹教授您曾經在政治大學上課裡面就有談關鍵爭議其實是說立法權的修法會不會導致行政權因為財政的因素無法履行憲法義務嘛對不對只有碰到這條紅線的時候他可能會上綱到變成用憲法法庭來解決的這樣一個狀況如果沒有碰到這條紅線對不對他理論上應該是事權之間的調和跟配套措施我這樣解釋這樣提問應該沒有問題對不對好那您覺得目前的狀況3700億要申請釋憲合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
27297.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
27317.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
還是跟委員報告 其一就是這個案子已經細數在憲法法庭其二3700億或3100億它在實際上的各憲法機關業務的執行上面扮演什麼樣的角色這恐怕是要精準的去一一盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
27319.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
27335.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
很抱歉我也只能夠按照您剛所提出的一般性的指標跟您做回覆也就是說財政是數證之母所以財政會不會構成到違憲的狀況我目前的基本立場是會不會去撼動 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
27337.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
27353.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
這個法定包含憲法層次跟法律層次架空了他作為一個憲法機關職權行使的本質性如果這個底線沒有去碰到縱使他可能會有摯愛難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
27355.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
27382.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
但是摯愛難行跟財政危機與違憲其實是還有距離的還有距離,好謝謝我們還是針對幾個指向的問題跟財政收支劃分法指向的問題跟被提名來做一個探討第一個,這個您覺得這個決定中央跟地方的財政分配比例的這件事情它是不是行政權的專屬權力還是其實立法權也可以基於反映民意的過程之中來進行修正跟討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
27384.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
27395.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
依照我們目前的法制設計立法權在這裡是居於一個先導的地位也就是說他可以制定一個框架立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
27396.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
27421.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
在這個框架範圍之下行政權可以在細部去做精準的細部分配對 因為它畢竟是一部法嘛 對不對所以立法權它當然有一定的角色嘛 謝謝那現在行政端主張財政運作困難您剛剛其實已經回答的差不多了啦就是說具體來講到底怎麼樣叫財政運作困難 對不對這個還是說它其實只是一個行政效率跟事權分配的問題您目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
27422.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
27435.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
了解的狀況,因為你認為還要經過精算跟分析所以你沒有辦法在這裡給我們答案嗎例如說在某份問卷裡面有提到某個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
27438.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
27463.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
監察院他對外宣稱96%的預算被刪除我不知道這個資訊對不對那個是預算 我今天談的是財政收支劃分法以目前來講重新劃分中央跟地方財政的分配我覺得錢跟權要做對等的設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
27466.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
27495.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
我也知道委員現在正好在處理地方制度法的修正你也有做一下功課,謝謝我現在就討論這個事其實這就是權跟權事權的討論我們談到事權討論的這一部分請問事權的討論它應該是行政單位內部因為它是中央跟地方的分工的問題也許要參酌一些民意的要求所以立法院可能有角色你覺得司法院用大法官、市縣等等的角色來介入事權的分配是合理的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
27497.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
27518.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
呃陳儒剛剛跟委員報告如果這個是有碰到底線的疑慮所以碰到底線才要出手嘛對不對我舉一個例子好了因為我們大概有具體的例子譬如說今天如果把中央所有可以調度的資源通通一刀切通通劃到了地方政府對不對讓你中央本來一鏡的政策是完全沒有辦法推行那這個本席也同意嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
27518.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
27520.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
如果按照委員的假設情況的話可能離違憲的距離還 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
27538.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
27554.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
還比較大對不對這我就跟貝提敏我們也交換一下意見以現在3700億來講他當然影響了跟過去相比中央當然要多分一份錢的到地方但你要講因為這樣他所有預算都沒有辦法執行或者是行政權被架空這我想我講的應該不是假設啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
27555.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
27584.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
當然沒關係這個後面有詳細的數據這我想以遭公信是沒有問題的所以我還蠻目前為止還蠻欣賞目前被提名人的回答這個您如果是成為大法官在本案如果你有機會參與審理因為這個已經被提到市縣裡面您比較傾向立法權依法擴大地方財政主張這樣的正當性還是比較傾向行政院應該有更大的控管財務的自由我自己從事地方自治多年的教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
27585.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
27594.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
我自己向來的主張就是當我們在把自治權回歸或下放給地方自治團體的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
27596.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
27623.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
跟著錢其實也要下去的否則這就會讓有權無錢的窘境所以一個前提命題是假設我們的中央跟地方的權限劃分我們要盡可能的朝向優於地方的方向去位移的話我會認同錢要跟著下去好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
27625.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
27653.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
那再來就是大家非常關心的題目當然就是有關於死刑的存廢您在自傳上面表示說我們要嚴正的面對每一個申請事件的案件要妥適的尋覓出能顧及我國憲政實踐環境又能夠契合人權指標的最佳衝突調和或者是解決方案您自己個人的立場您支持廢除死刑嗎以目前的現況來講廢死我個人不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
27654.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
27683.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
我的理由在於從憲法的角度來看死刑的潛理解是因為有一個故意的殺人罪的成立殺人罪的形成憲法的另外一個意味著有一條人命或者是數條人命的生命權被剝奪了所以死刑其實是一個權益調和後 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
27685.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
27694.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
國家昭告民眾何謂正義的一種方案當然這個方案不是橫鼓不變 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
27695.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
27722.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
我們可以當人民可以慢慢接受可能有另外一種機制也足以彰顯正義的時候或許到那個時機我們可以嚴正的考慮事實不要再以剝奪生命的方式來調和基本權的衝突狀況所以換言之你認為基本上要談論這麼深水區的議題之前一定要兼顧司法公義性以及社會大眾對於司法公平性的期待對不對好 謝謝那 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
27724.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
27745.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
目前我個人認為這個題目本來就應該經過深切的討論取得社會的最大公約數然後再來做思考但問題是這樣現判第八號其實已經判下去了他們針對死刑的要件雖然他宣告死刑是合憲的但他其實加諸了非常多從我們民意代表的角度來看非常不合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
27746.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
27766.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
各項邏輯包含各級審各審級需要有一致判決的這樣子的一個制度創設而這樣子的一個標準其實並沒有出現在任何的憲法條文法律條文甚至是當初申請人的主張之中請問被提名人憲法法庭有無權力自行去創設一套高於立法機關的量刑機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
27770.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
27795.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
這個問題我在回覆黨團的問卷裡面我有提到雖然站在人民的立場或是未來執行大法官職務的立場大法官的判決有拘束力這個我完全認同但是如果委員您要問我個人的意見我對於這個各省級一致決的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
27797.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
27825.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
憲法法庭的創設意見我是有一些比較不一樣的想法其實在憲判八的解釋理由書裡面有特別以並於指出這樣的方式去談論國法案件在那裡其實沒有去挑戰國民法官法裡面的非一致決他只要求三位的職業法官要一致決 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
27827.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
27849.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
那在判決的主文裡面其實也沒有彰顯這樣的職業法官一致決的話語他只說各省級一致決這個就是可怕的地方你們做出來因為是大法官法界的最高的榮譽其實你們未來如果做了大法官都掌握了非常非常大的話語權 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
27850.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
27873.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
哪怕他不是刑於判決主文或什麼他其實都有很有可能會影響整個法界大家的這樣子的一個思考的方向然後從而去影響實務上的判決那麼實務上來講這憲判八字號這出來之後你當然就看到越來越多有這樣的一個狀況包含什麼非罪嚴重之罪行未符合一字決等等的他其實就造成了社會很大的恐慌我們真的非常希望因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
27873.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
27900.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
如果我們要重新討論這樣的事情,大概只有透過重新釋憲的方式再來重新去改善有大法官造法疑慮的憲法判決這一部分我們希望如果您有幸可以成為大法官可以本於超然獨立跟您過去一貫的主張用一個比較能夠讓社會大眾接受維護司法公信力的方式來做思考這是本席給你的一個建議最後一點點時間我要問一個比較有趣的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
27901.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
27918.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
這個前一段時間其實立法院有討論過一個議題、一個概念我們現在這麼多的憲政衝突其實來自於到底誰是多數、誰是少數所以我們現在的總統是百分之四十的選票就可以當選因為是選舉是一個殺趴督這樣子的一個情況那國會卻是嘲笑野大那當然就出現了到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
27919.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
27944.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
誰比較重要對不對就衍生了很多的憲政僵局曾經有人主張也會用修法的方式來引入比照法國總統二輪選舉那當然執政黨這邊就主張這個是一定違憲的那憲法正確條文第二條裡面他寫的說總統要一起登記並且以多數為當選可是這樣子的概念這樣的一個精神跟一輪投票跟二輪投票有絕對的關係嗎我想請教一下被提名人的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
27946.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
27974.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
我個人的認為基本上還是取決於我們的總統副總統選罷法裡面目前的法律明定是相對多數決也就是說相對多數決的一組勝出那這個在大院的立法權的情況之下其實是可以去思考有沒有可能對這個當選的門檻反於他的公信力跟民主正當性的強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
27975.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
28004.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
再去做一個檢討換言之如果立法院經過了決議討論決議之後修法通過把它變成二輪投票制其實它並不會違背憲法的精神對不對因為不管是達到一個門檻或者是相對多數它其實都是多數我覺得憲法框架應該是一個相對大的一個範圍對憲法沒有設定到這麼細緻的投票門檻的規定所以如果真的立法院討論把它變成二輪投票它其實也是一個可以被思考的方案而且它不會違反憲法精神我可以這樣認定這是您的想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
28005.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
28014.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
從國民主權的角度來講,我認為並沒有顯然的違憲之餘好,謝謝,以上是我針對被提名人的質詢,感謝您清楚的回答,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
28037.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
28043.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
謝謝主席 那有請備題名人 謝謝請備題名人韓教授答詢委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
28050 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
28067.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
好 謝謝謝謝貝提名人過去您的宣揚是來自於憲法 行政法還有地方自治領域的專長部分那如果沒有問題我想我們今天非常開心也非常期待可以跟您進行一些意見上的交流那首先我想要談一個關於法庭直播這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
28068.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
28091.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
因為過去這一整年當中一年多以來在立法院有非常多的迴憲亂政的立法還有預算提案我在早上跟另外一位被提名討論的時候我們也討論過但是在法庭直播這一題我想要跟您討論在憲法八十條的部分有明定法官須超出黨派之外依據法律獨立審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
28092.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
28117.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
不受任何干涉對嗎是好這個是我們憲法明定的精神那我想要跟您討論直播法庭直播算不算是一種對法官的干涉法庭直播是法庭公開的一種機制我不排除法庭直播可能會造成法官在執行職權時內在的心理壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
28122.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
28130.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
那這個部分潛在的可能性或許會去影響到他審判原來的新政這個我不排除 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
28132.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
28152.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
過去如果按照您這個說法確實在法官受到這個公開直播的壓力的時候確實有可能您剛說的心理上的壓力影響到他的心證事實上我認為我剛剛只是用法官作為一個例子在相關的法庭關係當中其實不是只有法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
28153.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
28177.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
有可能受到影響如果我們來看整個案件的話其實有非常多人會受到影響包含檢察官包含證人包含鑑定人因為目前在立法院所通過的版本當然我個人是不認同這個版本在立法院所通過的版本裡面呢規定是由被告申請開啟這個所謂的法庭公開直播 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
28177.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
28201.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
或者是法院依照職權來裁定必須進行直播我實在是想不通有什麼樣的律師會希望自己的代理人他在法庭公開直播的時候要在大家的面前曝露所有他的案件的細節我也難以想像到底有什麼樣的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
28202.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
28229.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
除了符合社會公益跟重大案件我們有必須有必要進行直播之外我難以想像當然我的投影片上面放的是鄭振前委員但我並不想以他個人的個案作為討論的基礎我只是提出一個荒謬的點在這個立法院三讀通過之後馬上鄭振前委員自己的案子他竟然就要求說他不要公開直播 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
28229.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
28246.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
我甚至認為他自己在按三讀表決通過的時候他都忘記他根本不知道原來是要被告申請而他身為這個案子的被告他可能沒有想到也或者他很擔心法院依職權裁定他就要直播 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
28246.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
28271.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
那當然他的案子只是讓我們看見這個法案的荒謬之處但更關鍵的是我想要跟您討論證人鑑定人檢察官到底對於他們的隱私對於他們在法院上所做的陳述還有所有的資訊後續的直播會產生哪些問題除了我剛說的當然我還有覺得還有另外一個問題也非常的我認為非常的可怕在整個直播過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
28272.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
28299.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
如果後續有心人刻意操作把某一些人的說話片段後製剪接加上字幕而且那個剪接可能不是時序順的剪接他可能刻意的在不同的時序點前後倒置刻意的穿插製造錯假的訊息而這些影片他就已經流傳出去了就算我們知道影片可以下架但網路這件事情是沒有辦法保證百分之百的 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
28299.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
28318.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
他可能會造成非常多後續的影響恐懼焦慮這些事情而所有的人可能在這個案件當中在這個直播影片當中被指指點點被不當的評論跟對待所以我才要跟您討論在憲法的高度您如何看待法庭直播後續所可能造成跟帶來的一些問題謝謝委員的提問我認為這個是一個我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
28325.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
28336.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
法院組織法經由大院三讀通過後我們必須去嚴正面對的後續問題那如果對於三讀的條文沒有誤解的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
28339.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
28366.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
他其實還是有待於司法院去制定相關的執法我覺得委員剛剛所提到的這一些問題至少我們以比較進層的去填補各方權益的衡量可以某程度上在執法裡面去呈現出來像我在問卷的回答裡面我有去提到後製再利用怎麼樣去 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
28367.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
28389.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
避免委員剛剛所提到的那個疑慮當然這個尊重司法院的法規執法的制定權但是我覺得可以想像的是如果日後要以之作為另案訴訟是否具有證據能力的素材這個其實一定要面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
28390.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
28409.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
我們有沒有辦法透過執法的制定,將任何重製的影帶的全部跟片段,讓它不具有證據能力,以官方的版本為在我們法律上唯一認定的有權證據。 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
28411.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
28427.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
那至於說我覺得比較麻煩從憲法的高度來看就是我不是拿來做另案訴訟的證據之用而是我就是在網路上作為我的言論之一或者是所謂的言論自由的形式 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
28429.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
28447.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
這個恐怕我覺得也必須要去面對,任何變更的重置,尤其是以個案為前提的直播後的這些錄影、錄音,我覺得要嚴格管制。它跟一般的言論自由的行使是不一樣的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
28449.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
28465.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
那這個是我目前比較粗淺想到,在不撼動原有的三讀通過的條文底下,我們如何讓這個能夠盡可能的圓滿,達到憲法人權保障的橫平的一個方案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
28466.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
28486.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我很謝謝貝提名人你剛提到幾個非常重要的觀點包含第一個是他跟言論自由其實不同的如何在相關執法的保障底下確保人權的這個部分但是我要問我們自己來看我們當時在黨團協商的時候我們其實就主張這很有可能造成對司法的施壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
28487.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
28506.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
你怎麼看這件事情就施壓的部分確實有可能成如我剛剛回答委員的第一個問題他確實有可能造成內在的壓力所以有沒有可能在目前我們的通過的條文裡面剛剛委員也提到被告的申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
28507.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
28531.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
跟法院依職權的裁定我們有沒有可能在個案裡面對這個部分在法官職權行使上面採比較嚴格的限縮使用的方式盡可能讓這樣的一個情況除非是認為沒有那些疑慮才准許 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
28532.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
28555.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
其實事實上現在的法庭就已經有錄影跟錄音了在有必要的時候可以申請使用這些東西所以我認為法庭直播在這件事情上其實是逾越了原來的所謂錄音錄影然後有需要才申請所以我今天特地把這個題目拿出來跟被提名被提名你討論了但我相信後續不管是司法的執法的相關配套或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
28556.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
28580.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
到最後我們要如何確保剛剛說言論自由的部分施壓司法的部分還有人權的部分我認為都會是未來您可能會面對的燙手山芋好那我們接下來看第二個題目也是我們辦公室一直都在關心的關於司法少年的議題確實在這幾年當中我們看到司法少年不論是詐欺詐騙案這個大家可能覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
28581.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
28598.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
青少年容易上鉤容易成為犯罪集團要挾持的對象或者是把他們當成是工具人的對象或者是之前在前年的時候有相關的擱淨案都讓大家重新意識 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
28599.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
28625.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
如何認識如何對待如何協助司法少年那我想要談一下關於少事法第83條之一的這個議題因為這個議題在戈井案之後在很多詐騙案猖獗之後在很多孩子被當成車手之後很多人開始會過來看少事法83條之一的修法是在說什麼這個當時的修法在民國65年的時候是首次新增這個條款這個條款是說五年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
28626.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
28649.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
未受管訓處分或刑之宣告就可以徒消前科先幫您做一個前情說明目的就是希望鼓勵孩子們少年們改過自新然後不要再去觸碰新的法律後來逐漸的修法逐漸的修法慢慢改變成現在是說只要一定的期間就會徒消前科 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
28650.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
28674.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
可是我剛說的前情是在戈井案還有非常多的詐欺詐騙案之後呢大家開始問要不要來限縮或是調整這個所謂突銷前科的條件所以司法院在去年提出修正草案目前也通過院會目前的寫法是說少年在三年內未在故意犯罪才能突銷前科 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
28675.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
28695.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
就這個部分,我認為從民國65年到近年來的改革,到去年提出最新版本的修法,確實時空環境背景不一樣。青少年們所接受的社會環境、學校環境、家庭社區環境,都從相對單純變得複雜、多元、而且多變,並且快速。 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
28696.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
28715.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
連我們大人都不見得可以應付這麼快速變換頻繁多元的樣態更何況是這些青少年因此我認為在這麼複雜的環境變遷的情況下這樣子的修法您怎麼看從五年新增然後到一定時間到現在變成三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
28718.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
28742.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
法律的修正本來就是要與時俱進那這樣子的一個微調去呼應我們目前青少年尤其是在炸漆飯的車手的部分所做的一個回應基本上我認為把它朝向有條件的限縮的塗銷這個基本立場我是支持的更何況 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
28747.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
28773.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
主席可以幫我暫停一下嗎謝謝主席好謝謝委員好謝謝主席更何況呢我們在歷經這多年以來我們的青少年的成長新式成熟度完全沒有辦法跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
28774.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
28790.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
六十幾年以來的狀況相比這也就是為什麼我們之前這有點岔開話題啦就是我們18歲為成年人的那個修憲案換句話說我們如果把這個考量進去的話適時的去檢討法規範的與時俱進這個立場我是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
28797.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
28810.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
就這個立場我可以理解因為您剛剛說到一句話就是現在我說的這麼多變這麼快速多元文化情況下您認為現在青少年的心智成熟年齡跟心智成熟度應該遠遠超過也就是我剛說明過65年的時候將近50年前 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
28815.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
28831.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
但我在現場也看到另外一個困境當然我認為這個是有不同的觀點的如果我們回來看少事法或者是看兒童權利公約或者是在看我們所謂的盡可能避免少年進入司法系統的這個脈絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
28833.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
28849.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
其實當然是希望給犯罪的青少年機會也希望站在兒童權利公約的角度看待國際人權公約尤其是兩公約國內法治化之後我們如何看待這件事情我認為也是後續我們真的必須要花時間討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
28851.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
28870.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
也就是說我認同你剛剛說的孩子們的心智成熟度變高我們理當可能就認為他們對法理的認識對自己行為的約束跟把行為跟法理之間的關係做一個合理的連結我們彷彿認為這個是孩子們必須具備的能力跟素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
28871.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
28898.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
但偏偏相當的困境是當這些好人們在進化的時候其實壞人們也在進化不要說司法少年他們誤入歧途或是他們對社會認識不深其實更多的大人也不見得具備相關的法學素養法理知識或者是把法學跟生活合在一起所以我們也看到有非常多大人類似的案件所以我認為我還是期待有沒有當然後續的事情可以再討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
28899.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
28927.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
不過我還是希望有沒有在未來如果您真的可以擔任大法官有沒有機會有沒有意願在憲法法庭的判決中把我剛剛所提到的兒童權利公約也好或者是國際人權公約相關國際公約精神放入您在做相關判決的內容或者是帶入這個精神是 謝謝委員的鼓勵事實上我們目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
28928.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
28955.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
不管是兩公約也好兒童人權公約也好或者是其他消除婦女這個一切歧視其實在我們的若干憲法法庭的裁判裡面都業以援引那如果我未來出任大法官這個是不可避免的職責也必須要參考國際的人權標準這個無庸置疑 謝謝好 我非常期待看見這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
28956.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
28973.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
那既然我們剛講到要把國際人權公約精神納入其實另外一個也很重要在做相關判決的時候也就是民意這件事情因為民意確實是這幾年來很多人對於大法官相對容易提出的質疑大家會說大法官沒有民意基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
28974.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
28994.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
或者是說大法官審理案件的時候沒有考量民意我很想請教您在您未來如果擔任大法官民意會不會是您做成決定的重要參考項目回委員兩個問題第一個大法官到底有沒有民意基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
28996.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
29021.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
我自己的解读根据我们宪法关于大法官的提名跟同意权行使的规范架构大法官在这个从提名到经由大院行使同意权它其实就是一个职权行使民主正当性的赋予接下来接手的 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
29022.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
29043.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
與立法委員不同的是基於大法官憲法上的職責接手的是憲法八十條的獨立審判但是如同我剛剛在口頭報告所說獨立審判並不是完全漠視民意因為民意在某程度上 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
29043.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
29061.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
它也是彰顯社會大眾對於我們現今憲法意識及人權正義觀的一種解讀偏偏憲法訴訟又不可避免地涉及到利益衡量跟衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
29062.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
29086.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
那我們怎麼樣做利益衡量跟衝突呢?當然是縱觀多元因素,不是只有規範,不是只有法例,包含目前人民對於這樣的人權侵害,他的一般觀感是什麼?我們當然在視線工作裡面也必須不可規避,要予以著量。 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
29088.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
29116.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
如果按照這個前提意思就是說您會把民意作為在做出相關判決重要參考精神之一對嗎是聽起來是這樣那所以回過頭時間有限我想跟你談一談那關於公投公投他某個部分確實就直接代表了民意那當然不論是票數的比例懸殊或多或少他確實表達呈現了某些民意的選擇但是公投結果的法律未接 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
29117.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
29145.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
他跟大法官解釋或是憲法法庭所做成的判決結果未接是不一樣的對嗎是好那在這個前提底下請問被提名人您認為公民投票的結果跟大法官解釋或憲法法庭判決的法律未接一旦在見解上發生衝突您會怎麼處置跟考慮像這樣的議題謝謝委員如果大法官的判決裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
29147.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
29175.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
沒有容認給立法者有去做核限性調適的修法空間那在這裡即便我們用直接民意的公投方式來呈現多數主流的民意恐怕也沒有辦法以直接民主去取代大法官的判決反之如果大法官的判決他會回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
29176.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
29205.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
要求立法者依裁判意旨去修法那這個時候公投就擁有創制立法原則以民意的展現來讓大院行使職權時作為主要的修法的參考依據所以還是要看公投他的議題在個案當中大法官那邊的主文如何下而定 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
29206.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
29228.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
您的回答非常的清楚但是我時間有限我就不再多問那不過我們很期待在後續的投票當中我們可以看見你可以順利的出任大法官為我們解決非常多人民現在非常期待的很多事件的問題都還沒有辦法解決好嗎好 以上非常謝謝您今天的回答也謝謝主席 謝謝謝謝陳委員 謝謝貝提米人再會請盧憲義委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
29255.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
29271.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
主席有請備題名人請備題名人答詢委員好張教授好辛苦了我是最後一位剛剛看了 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
29272.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
29294.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
不是刚看这个月或者是说这几个礼拜刚看了你的资料大概看到了就是你有著作专书诗本论文52期刊100译文13研究计划26专题演讲或者是学术研讨76也就是说你非常的所有专精 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
29295.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
29323.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
我也深信你應該可以升任大法官這個職務經過這幾個委員的質詢我大概每一個都有聽到那我就針對有些是針對原住民的部分有些是針對司法不公的部分就叫你那我們台灣現在一直說我們是以南島文化優越有別於中國那可是我要跟你說的是我們的認同是一樣的我們的認同是中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
29324.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
29339.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
我們看到中華民國的國旗,聽到中華民國的國歌,我們都會肅然起敬,有時候會不禁傷人淚下,尤其是我們的選手得到金牌的時候。那我要問你就是說,現在到目前為止有多少大法官, |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
29341.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
29357.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
目前為止你說中華民國憲法15位到現在從民國三十幾到現在你說累計是不是很抱歉我不知道沒有去計算我也沒有計算所以我要告訴你我有查過沒有一位是原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
29357.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
29377.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
因為我們常常說優越,說我們是南島文化的一個起源,我們甚至在現在在聯合國,或者說參與很多國際會議都說我們是以南島文化自居,可是我們目前沒有一位。我要凸顯的就是說,我們還是主流社會的一個決定的一個架子在框架我們。 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
29378.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
29406.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
那目前也沒有一位外交官是原住民那可是我們到南島有些國家比如說泛太平洋國家尤其是印尼、菲律賓、馬來西亞這些跟我們膚色、語法一模一樣的國家的時候可是卻沒有一位我們是台灣原住民作為外交官的一個身份在那邊與他們交流或者是溝通這是我要為原住民說的一個非常不公平的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
29407.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
29433.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
接下來我講到這次我們大罷免的時候遇到的一些司法不公平的對待那憲法80條你剛有說我有聽到是超越黨派獨立審判不受任何干涉我不知道包括不包括檢察官不過就看現在這個數據來看就6月25號之前中選會的一個資料來說連署前死亡死亡連署 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
29434.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
29458.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
所牽涉到的委員應該有16位 重複連署23000多那偽造的339 牽涉到的委員應該有11位可是這裡面沒有一個是有被調查 也沒有被檢調單位說請到來問那可是呢 我們藍園有11個人在押 有93位被起訴我想問你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
29461.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
29482.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
當然我可能預測到委員您要提問的方向不過因為這個跟不管是我作為大法官被提名人或者是截至目前為止自己作為學術工作者的這個社會經驗來講相距真的是很遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
29485.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
29499.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
這個恐怕是一個事實認定的問題我還是要突顯告訴你說我們目前看到的司法不公的狀態接下來我們講到原住民自治 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
29500.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
29526.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
那原住民自治這個法律是在陳水扁總統時代通過的2005年2月10號到現在已經整整20年如果我們就原住民自治的法條關於有三個也就是說應該是預期意願然後保障原住民主平等地位的自主發展實行原住民主自治第五條就是說每年要編列預算好20年過去有沒有編列沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
29526.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
29549.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
第六,如果有自治權限發生爭議的時候,應該由總統府召開,也就是說這個位階擺得很高,可是從公佈日到現在沒有進行,也就是說現在還說是部落公法人士在事辦的階段,而且還沒有開始事辦。所以如果就這樣的一個, |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
29550.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
29576.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
這樣的一個狀況來講我是不是要問你說公部門有沒有瀆職有沒有違憲這個問題好謝謝委員的問題這個原住民自治尤其是原基法裡面確實目前我們在規範的原來的良法美意據我的理解跟我們在原住民自治行政的推展上面確實有一段很大的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
29578.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
29596.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
那有沒有立法帶墮進而導致或者是說行政帶墮進而導致違憲的情勢今天這個時間可能無法容許我詳細跟委員報告不過我可以跟委員分享的是部落公法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
29597.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
29620.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
其實我們到目前為止行政法院穩定的見解都不認為原民會所公布的那些是公法人其實這個問題在我看來是好解決的為什麼我們只要依照原基法的規定將部落公法人的認定的辭法與規範進而就可以推載所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
29622.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
29640.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
到目前為止就變成行政部門認定是公法人法院部門認定不是公法人的一個窘境那我的意思是說就已經20年過去了有沒有辦法可以讓它加快或者說有沒有可以歸咎的地方為什麼一直都停擺在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
29643.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
29662.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
這背後的成因我不是很清楚還有一個法律是關於我們原住民健康的我們大家都知道我們為什麼要推原住民健康法因為我們現在平均裡面大概差了目前主流社會還在差七歲左右那之前當然經過了很多的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
29663.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
29685.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
當然平均裡面也不是單一項可以解決的不過就原住民健康法在112年5月26號通過到目前為止兩年過去它的第二條第二項它有指定機構要專責單位來開始籌設可是目前為止也是毫無動靜那這樣我們是不是可以指責中央主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
29687.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
29706.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
當然站在我們現行的法律制度底下我們有多元的管道去促使執法主管機關去踐行這個法律的規範的議制例如說非正式的陳情跟請願的管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
29707.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
29726.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
那正式的法律的途徑,這就是陳如剛跟委員報告的。有的時候法律真的很漂亮,不過就是一直擺在那裡沒有用。所以我們要,你身為大法官,我說如果以後身為大法官,我們要怎麼把這些很好的法案來落實?你的建議,有沒有具體建議? |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
29727.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
29738.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
如果以大法官的職責而言當這樣的一個消極立法或者是行政不作為真的足以強度到違憲的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
29740.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
29762.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
我們目前大法官運作的實務我們會在主文裡面預知科與立法者或行政部門依解釋的意旨一個是原紀法二十年過去一個是原檢法兩年過去我怕他也跟原紀法一樣躺在那裡躺了好多年 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
29763.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
29790.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
所以我們就是擔心的部分就是這樣那你的任期是8如果說你有幸成為大法官任期是8年我想8年以後如果有機會再提問你的話我不希望這個結果還是一樣的所以我們希望能夠如果你身為大法官可以給我們一些方向讓我們知道說未來把這個法律要怎麼來執行最近我有去南投縣地利村一個咕咕山採礦的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
29793.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
29805.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
當天我收到的一個消息就是說他們7月5號要舉行部落的一些抗議活動因為他們在6月29號通過了知情同意也就是以131比88票同意採礦不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
29810.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
29833.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
當地的年輕人或者是在外生活的族人回去就是要去質問說知情同意知多少情同了什麼意族人真的知道嗎所以這樣的一個類似很粗糙的一個做法等於是強行通過了採礦同意採礦不過我們就看這個歷程來說他去年8月24號舉行也舉行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
29835.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
29858.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
這個所謂的同意結果是反對票比同意票多也就是說他是沒有辦法結果還不到一年的時間又開會那我說他一定是背後一個很大的經濟利益他不斷的要去推這個知情同意他其實在這個同意之前還有三月份還有辦過一次留會因為人數不足的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
29859.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
29885.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
所以当这个利益大到一个程度的时候,这个知情同意权是不是应该是一个专者单位来弄,而不是小小的一个承办人来弄,然后呢,结果该公告的人没有公告,该通知的人没有通知,然后呢,目前他们那个,目前的,同意的一个单位的是户,而不是人,是不是可以全权代表所有族人的想法,我觉得这是可以值得商榷的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
29887.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
29910.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
就你的看法來說這個自行同意我們尤其是原住民基本法第21條你覺得是不是應該更周延一點我支持委員的這個方向就是說諮商同意權自行同意權我們21條委員剛剛所提到的這個個案其實我們在台東也遇到過 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
29912.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
29940.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
部落裡面的一群人做了同意另外一群人跳出來覺得我的意見沒有被採納根本沒有討論所以目前在行政法院針對這個是有訴訟案件的也就是說部落會議的內部衝突那從立法面來講諮商同意其實是以部落自決為立法的核心宗旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
29940.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
29960.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
所以它的關鍵是依照傳統慣習跟原住民族的自治從這個角度去出發當然如果它弱於少數人被控制又回到原住民自治的問題所以我的意思就是說剛才那個知情同意它的頻率是不是太頻繁了 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
29961.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
29979.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
本來應該是如果說就這樣來看的話已經這一年已經三次了如果他強行規範就是說應該明定他的只要不同意應該是兩年兩年內不得再申請執行同意權不然部落一天到晚被召集就是為了財團的利益在那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
29981.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
29996.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
鬥爭,那有的人我不知道是怎麼樣或者是被摸了頭,結果他本來是反對變成同意,可是我覺得要有一個timing,你不能沒有多久又想要來推翻之前所謂的不同意的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
29998.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
30011.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
這個大概跟公投法的設計有點類似不過基本上這是主管機關立法形成自由在執法的部分那當然如果主管機關針對這個部分不作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
30014.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
30042.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
當然在現行的憲政體制之下往上一層就是大院等於立法形成權可不可以考慮在相關適當的法律透過意見的表達看看這個部分有沒有修法我相信部落他們還是會提出他們的救濟看是什麼樣的一個程序來弄接下來就是我之前有拜讀到你的論文就是原住民保留地權利設定的地方權責劃分 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
30044.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
30070.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
剛剛好我們台東一個鄉發生了一個類似登記不實或者說冒名登記諸如此類的事情鄉長就要被提出罷免後來整體的結果6月24日台東縣政府就去調查發現他們強調是行政疏失未查有違法情勢來做一個類似像總total |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
30071.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
30092.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
我看到你的一個結論就是說在部落公法人實行之前實行原住民保留地無償取得所有權的取得規劃由直轄市縣市政府主管享有立方納入絕大多數原住民所組成的鄉鎮市區公所原住民保留土地權利審查委員會必要的參與機制也就是土審會我們所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
30094.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
30119.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
然後可是現在你也希望說說不定這些曾經的昙花一線可以回來變成是主導的單位鄉公所鄉鎮區公所可是現在有一個問題就是如果這些土神會的委員都是鄉長的人是不是就會產生一些弊端然後有些鄉比如說仁愛鄉或者是比較大的鄉他甚至比彰化縣還要大 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
30120.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
30143.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
那這麼大的一個領地,可是圖神委就是那麼幾個人,他怎麼會了解很遙遠的地方的事情?所以主人的建議就是說,這個部落應該是以部落為單位,而不是以鄉為單位,它的透明度一定要夠,不然這個之前紛紛擾擾,不知道好幾個月的時間,連續都是海端鄉的事情, |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
30143.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
30154.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
所以我希望就是說以後如果你有幸當大法官的時候就原住民保留地這個部分我希望你之前有研究過我希望你再提出一些你的看法出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
30155.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
30180.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
是 謝謝委員的鼓勵那元寶地 各位有人如果看到我這個您揭露的這一段其實前面有一個預設的前提就是在公法人化之前那我也蠻認同剛剛委員您所說的是不是有可能讓部落本身多參與這個有關元寶地的相關的所有權取得的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
30182.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
30203.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
其實原保地本來就是保護保障原住民族的生計所以適時的而且高比例的去納入原住民族自己的意見我覺得這個是一個符合原保地設計的地方意志所以基本上這個方向我也是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
30206.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
30222.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
就針對富裕的部分我還是要提出我的想法來問你一下就是我們現在財化法這個說後來我們中央不給我們一般性補助款的話你覺得有沒有危險一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
30224.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
30252.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
一般性補助款是根據財化法地方制度法的規定為了橫貧地方的發展所給予的一種補助款的項目那這成如我剛剛在回覆其他委員的質詢時我所提到的一貫的立場原則上一般性補助款的發給中央有裁量權 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
30253.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
30282.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
但是不代表這個裁量權完全無限制他如果因為一般性的補助款未給予而導致地方自治團體自治事項難以推行時那這個時候在憲法的層次來看他可能就會去危及地方自治被憲法作為制度性保障的一個界面 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
30283.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
30305.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
在這樣的一個諸多要件該當的情況之下我就會認為這個時候中央他的裁量是收縮到零的狀態也就是說他就有義務對地方收支短差的部分透過一般補助款的方式給予補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
30306.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
30331.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
OK 最後幾分鐘我再問你一下關於那個威瑪憲法的問題就是說你曾經我看到你對威瑪憲法都是用萬劫不復這四個字在形容它那也就是說它有緊急權跟主動解散國會加這個兩項權利那反觀我們現在在國會一年多來所經歷的這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
30334.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
30345.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
總統有沒有擴全一個傾向呢?好,我原問了一個難度蠻高的政治的問題。目前台灣的這個國會跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
30354.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
30370.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
還有府之間的關係當然直接來跟委員報告直接的關聯性是一個政黨政治的運作的正面跟負面的結果那有沒有或權 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
30374.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
30403.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
我自己觀察到的 實質上我當然不在其中我很難跟委員做評論但是目前看起來的還是行政院我個人的感受就有到 因為為什麼呢以前1919到1933這14年裡面他解散七次國會他已經使用250次對不對那我們現在已經不斷的被復印然後不斷要被釋憲在一年裡面已經復印七次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
30404.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
30428.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
那我覺得他是不是也是變相的可以去說他是不是也是在用兩個權力緊急權跟主動解散國會可是我們現在是用視線跟富裕這樣的兩把武器在制衡國會是不是也有這方面的一個疑慮我才會講說會不會走到萬劫不復你所說的這四個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
30430.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
30458.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
謝謝委員比較具體的這個提問就複義而言我個人認為那是憲政設計上面關於政治解決的途徑那這個部分我認為沒有那能不能不斷地提起憲法訴訟誠如其他被提名人在答覆的回答一樣它基本上只要符合受理的要件憲法作為政治之法 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
30459.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
30464.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
憲法法庭有時候其實也很難去阻絕這樣從政治紛爭轉變成法律紛爭的正義問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
30486.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
30511.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
好 謝謝盧委員也謝謝被提名人張教授報告全院委員會對大法官被提名人詹振榮詢答部分到此為止謝謝被提名人列席答詢另外有關各黨團對被提名人所提書面問題及被提名人答覆之電子檔列入公報記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
30513.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
30532.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
報告全院委員會針對司法院院長、副院長及五位大法官被提名人之資格及是否事任相關事項均於審查完略本案作以下決議提報院會以記名投票表決現在散會 |