| IVOD_ID |
168092 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168092 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-01T10:16:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-01T10:28:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3cb874f729dd87ad7570c8d4d2e9dc784047e563c2ae160964a5fa53d23552a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:16:26 - 10:28:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席好 我們請一下洪部長好 邀請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個我看到我們4月13號即將上路的這個家事移工新制那乍看之下是好事可是我突然仔細想想可是裡面好像很多的問題我在這邊請教我們部長我們決定這個開出一張144萬人的這個空投支票 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
46.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
71.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那先讓我們的家長認為說有便宜的勞動力可以用那至於人從哪裡來勞動部好像也沒說明我們現在目前只管把這個門檻拆掉然後引發這個洗工潮讓原本照顧老人的看護都跑去照顧小孩那至於以後小孩怎麼長大台灣保母會不會失業那長照體系會不會崩盤 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
88.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
不是勞動部要關心的問題數據好看比較重要那我看到衛福部的報告他承認我們承認這個國家一起養這個小孩子這個牛皮吹破了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
既然公托蓋不夠 本國保母又太貴那我們決定棄守專業照護的底線反正只要把這批移工定義為家務幫傭 而非專業保母未來家裡出事就不歸衛福部管我們只負責發幾份數位教材 求個西南至於144萬個小孩的成長品質跟本土托育產業的崩潰 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
130.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那是家庭的私事與市場的競爭請大家自求多福那從這兩份書面報告我們可以看到政府的政策現在已經簡化到只要有人看小孩讓大人去工廠或辦公室上班就是成功的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
至於小孩照顧得好不好那本國保母有沒有飯吃國家這個養了這個政策是否名存實亡在4月1號的報告裡面都沒有看到具體的解決方案那我先請教衛福部你們現在這個定調勞動政策說家務幫庸不涉及專業托孕請教一下你有沒有去過任何一個家裡有小孩同時又請了移工的家庭你看過他們的真實生活嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
在你們這種表格化的腦袋裡世界是切開來的這一男是移工的廚房洗碗煮飯掃地這叫勞動部的勞動政策另一男是小孩在哭在爬要換尿布這叫衛福部的社政業務但現實生活中這兩件事是分開的只要家裡有小孩移工的手隨時都會觸碰到那我再請問就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
194.063 |
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在這個萬一這個事情成真之後我們這個144萬個家庭當中如果發生了嚴重移工裂銅的案件這是屬於誰要負責的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.01 |
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215.175 |
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包委員我還是再重申一次委員剛剛所說的我覺得可能會有一些些小小偏頗我必須要跟委員報告所有這些政策其實基本上大概都是一攬子的一個政策對於這些部分我們有我們有津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
239.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們有公托我們也需要給家長時間這是現在目前全世界在推行有關於這個對育兒家庭最重要事實上就是有這些綜合的政策公司我請問衛福部衛福部對本土的保姆當初的要求是要受訓要訪視要定期考核因為衛福部說要專業嘛對不對要管得到我們這個也其實現在針對這144萬的家庭如果引進外籍幫佣你說這個部分你怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
244.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.8 |
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包委員這兩個並不是互相替代的啊這互相是補充的這不是互相替代是互相是補充的那他不會照顧到小孩嗎那你請你給這些家庭請這些外勞的用意是什麼包委員我們現在目前容我在他不會你請過來請過來你現在是年齡限制12歲以下嘛對不對包委員讓我再簡單說明一下我們現在目前對家庭照顧有三個層次一個叫teacher |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第二個呢是有關baby sister另外第三個叫housekeeper這三個是不一樣的那三個不一樣其實大家每一個家庭你一個家庭他有辦法處理這麼多人嗎他有辦法這樣有辦法簽話嗎因為他領的錢他有辦法去做這麼多的事情嗎所以我們現在每一個家庭都有不同的階段都有他們不同的需求所以我覺得這裡面事實上是我們應該要有一個所謂比較我請問這些幫傭他能不能照顧小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
301.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
321.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這些外勞 外勞 外勞報告委員喔 讓我再重複一下我就這樣問嘛 他如果能夠照顧小孩 那是不是就要照你的規定外勞工作內容大概有幾個部分嘛 是房舍清理嘛食物烹調 但是家庭成員他也要照顧他的起居所以他當然 請這個當然是子女啊對 他要不要領保姆證照 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他是邦庸所以他跟保姆是不一樣的所以我剛剛就講一個是housekeeper一個是fellowshitter你怎麼去界定這個事情我這樣講因為邦庸這個外勞請到家裡你怎麼去限制他說這個不能碰那個不能碰你懂我意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
其實現在大家對保姆的專業期待很高,比方說他的健康照顧,甚至是他的發展的支持,就是小孩的早期發展的引導,甚至也包括一些輕職上面的顧問,或者是輕職上面的協助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
363.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
當然這些事情都是現在專業保姆裡面被期待賦予的一些專業的角色這些工作當然是外籍幫傭無法做的啊對啦我現在要講的就是說我發現的問題點我現在是提醒你們你們要把這個事情釐清把它做得清楚一點寫得清楚一點就像我部長我還再請教就像你現在講話我再問你一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
387.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
就是說我們今天的這項政策是要讓家長安心去工作嘛提高我們的勞動力對吧那邏輯上申請人應該都要在職場對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
397.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
419.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我沒有看到我們要申請的時候,我只看到要戶口名簿、要申請表、身障罕見證明、罕病證明那你們沒有寫說這兩個人的在職證明或者是勞保紀錄吧?你們也要提供嗎?第一個,其實的確現在大部分來跟我們要求、希望來申請的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
420.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
435.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
絕大部分的確都是雙性家庭這是確定的但你沒有限制啊可是你沒寫清楚啊我們的資格的條件就是現在就是以12歲以下的小孩現在就是報告上沒寫嘛我現在提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
437.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
460.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
對 我就舉例啦我們基本上就是一個家庭家裡他是這個收出工媽媽是專業貴婦兩個名下財產過億喔如果沒有工作需求他就可以天天遊山玩水那家裡有一個10歲以下的小孩子他就可以申請嘛 對不對那如果這樣繞過他這樣對我們的這個提高的勞動力好像一點幫助都沒有啊你跟我意思嗎第一個我還是要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
462.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
478.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們剛剛在講到其實現在絕大多數來表達希望申請的確都是雙薪家庭那這個雙薪家庭他有他在工作跟家務分配上面這樣的需求對啦你們的出發點是對啦那我剛剛提醒你的時候你沒有剛剛沒有限制這個項目的時候你這個這個所謂的這個增加勞動的這個政策啊會變成富人管家的補助計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
491.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
508.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
其實你在兩年前你也要求我們我覺得是好事啊請我們願意要開放邦庸啊對對對我沒有反對我現在不是反對我的意思是說你們的規則你們的審查資格都沒有寫清楚你懂我意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
510.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
529.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
原本是三個小孩六歲以下這的確在現代的家庭結構裡面是過度嚴格的所以我們希望能夠把它放寬那在這個放寬的過程裡面第一個我們針對如果是弱勢比方說如果家長是生長或者是小孩的狀況是早療或者是發展遲緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
531.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
553.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
包括這些東西我們都做了優先的配套的設計你不用再跟我解釋這件事情時間沒有很多啦我其實我是支持這個政策但是我希望你們把這個政策的規則寫清楚不要到時候搞得亂七八糟的各位說明我們會把配套做好那再來我想請部長請回我想請這個行政院理副秘書長人總我們的理處長保訓會蔡處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
562.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
580.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我先請教你們三位就是代表的我們台灣公務體系最核心的人事與法治單位那我先請教您你們在過去的公務生涯當中有沒有親自擔任過職場霸凌小組的調查委員或親自撰寫過這個霸凌案的這個認定報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
584.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
609.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有沒有去擔任過跟委員報告 我擔任過調查委員但是我沒有寫過調查報告對 因為我看到你們 你們有講到就是說現在行政院是外聘四個嘛 對不對外聘四個調查委員那我請教一下 這四個裡面是誰在做主還是行政院另外有派人 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
610.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
623.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
跟委員報告那這一次的調查小組的話我們四位都是外聘委員那沒有內部委員沒有內部委員那誰為主導呢誰為主導啊如果他們四個調查回來兩個說有問題兩個又說沒有那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
629.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
650.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
調查小組是四個人,他會分工共同調查但是出那個報告的話,是四個人共同出一份報告,沒有出四份報告那如果四個人都講不好怎麼辦?四個人他們自己內部會有開會,他們會協調出共同的結論會討論出一個共同的結論,那你們就會照做嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
656.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
682.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們會照做嗎你們會照他們的報告做嗎因為這一次就是為了要公正跟客觀嘛為了要釐清事實的真相所以我們自己的內部委員是沒有介入調查的那對於他的報告我們當然會信任跟尊重啊對啦 我不希望說這四個大家調查到後來然後沒有一個結論到時候又不了了之啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
683.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
711.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
不會那到時候誰要介入是你們介入還是誰介入他是這樣子他的過程中的話現在由調查小組先去調查那調查完以後會出一份調查報告出稿那這個要多久你們現在調查要多久依照規定的時限是兩個月必要可以延長一個月但是院長昨天已經宣示了我們會盡量在規定兩個月的期限內完成報告好那我們就靜待報告了好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
714.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
715.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝邱政軍委員的資訊 |