| IVOD_ID |
168092 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168092 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-01T10:16:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-01T10:28:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3cb874f729dd87ad7570c8d4d2e9dc784047e563c2ae160964a5fa53d23552a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:16:26 - 10:28:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】） |
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洪部長申翰 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
5.701 |
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9.896 |
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主席好 我們請一下洪部長好 邀請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
38.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個我看到我們4月13號即將上路的這個家事移工新制那乍看之下是好事可是我突然仔細想想可是裡面好像很多的問題我在這邊請教我們部長我們決定這個開出一張144萬人的這個空投支票 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
46.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
71.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那先讓我們的家長認為說有便宜的勞動力可以用那至於人從哪裡來勞動部好像也沒說明我們現在目前只管把這個門檻拆掉然後引發這個洗工潮讓原本照顧老人的看護都跑去照顧小孩那至於以後小孩怎麼長大台灣保母會不會失業那長照體系會不會崩盤 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
88.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
不是勞動部要關心的問題數據好看比較重要那我看到衛福部的報告他承認我們承認這個國家一起養這個小孩子這個牛皮吹破了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
既然公托蓋不夠 本國保母又太貴那我們決定棄守專業照護的底線反正只要把這批移工定義為家務幫傭 而非專業保母未來家裡出事就不歸衛福部管我們只負責發幾份數位教材 求個西南至於144萬個小孩的成長品質跟本土托育產業的崩潰 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
130.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那是家庭的私事與市場的競爭請大家自求多福那從這兩份書面報告我們可以看到政府的政策現在已經簡化到只要有人看小孩讓大人去工廠或辦公室上班就是成功的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
至於小孩照顧得好不好那本國保母有沒有飯吃國家這個養了這個政策是否名存實亡在4月1號的報告裡面都沒有看到具體的解決方案那我先請教衛福部你們現在這個定調勞動政策說家務幫庸不涉及專業托孕請教一下你有沒有去過任何一個家裡有小孩同時又請了移工的家庭你看過他們的真實生活嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
在你們這種表格化的腦袋裡世界是切開來的這一男是移工的廚房洗碗煮飯掃地這叫勞動部的勞動政策另一男是小孩在哭在爬要換尿布這叫衛福部的社政業務但現實生活中這兩件事是分開的只要家裡有小孩移工的手隨時都會觸碰到那我再請問就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
194.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
在這個萬一這個事情成真之後我們這個144萬個家庭當中如果發生了嚴重移工裂銅的案件這是屬於誰要負責的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
215.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
包委員我還是再重申一次委員剛剛所說的我覺得可能會有一些些小小偏頗我必須要跟委員報告所有這些政策其實基本上大概都是一攬子的一個政策對於這些部分我們有我們有津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
239.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們有公托我們也需要給家長時間這是現在目前全世界在推行有關於這個對育兒家庭最重要事實上就是有這些綜合的政策公司我請問衛福部衛福部對本土的保姆當初的要求是要受訓要訪視要定期考核因為衛福部說要專業嘛對不對要管得到我們這個也其實現在針對這144萬的家庭如果引進外籍幫佣你說這個部分你怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
244.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
包委員這兩個並不是互相替代的啊這互相是補充的這不是互相替代是互相是補充的那他不會照顧到小孩嗎那你請你給這些家庭請這些外勞的用意是什麼包委員我們現在目前容我在他不會你請過來請過來你現在是年齡限制12歲以下嘛對不對包委員讓我再簡單說明一下我們現在目前對家庭照顧有三個層次一個叫teacher |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第二個呢是有關baby sister另外第三個叫housekeeper這三個是不一樣的那三個不一樣其實大家每一個家庭你一個家庭他有辦法處理這麼多人嗎他有辦法這樣有辦法簽話嗎因為他領的錢他有辦法去做這麼多的事情嗎所以我們現在每一個家庭都有不同的階段都有他們不同的需求所以我覺得這裡面事實上是我們應該要有一個所謂比較我請問這些幫傭他能不能照顧小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
301.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
321.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這些外勞 外勞 外勞報告委員喔 讓我再重複一下我就這樣問嘛 他如果能夠照顧小孩 那是不是就要照你的規定外勞工作內容大概有幾個部分嘛 是房舍清理嘛食物烹調 但是家庭成員他也要照顧他的起居所以他當然 請這個當然是子女啊對 他要不要領保姆證照 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他是邦庸所以他跟保姆是不一樣的所以我剛剛就講一個是housekeeper一個是fellowshitter你怎麼去界定這個事情我這樣講因為邦庸這個外勞請到家裡你怎麼去限制他說這個不能碰那個不能碰你懂我意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
其實現在大家對保姆的專業期待很高,比方說他的健康照顧,甚至是他的發展的支持,就是小孩的早期發展的引導,甚至也包括一些輕職上面的顧問,或者是輕職上面的協助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
363.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
當然這些事情都是現在專業保姆裡面被期待賦予的一些專業的角色這些工作當然是外籍幫傭無法做的啊對啦我現在要講的就是說我發現的問題點我現在是提醒你們你們要把這個事情釐清把它做得清楚一點寫得清楚一點就像我部長我還再請教就像你現在講話我再問你一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
387.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
就是說我們今天的這項政策是要讓家長安心去工作嘛提高我們的勞動力對吧那邏輯上申請人應該都要在職場對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
397.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
419.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我沒有看到我們要申請的時候,我只看到要戶口名簿、要申請表、身障罕見證明、罕病證明那你們沒有寫說這兩個人的在職證明或者是勞保紀錄吧?你們也要提供嗎?第一個,其實的確現在大部分來跟我們要求、希望來申請的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
420.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
435.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
絕大部分的確都是雙性家庭這是確定的但你沒有限制啊可是你沒寫清楚啊我們的資格的條件就是現在就是以12歲以下的小孩現在就是報告上沒寫嘛我現在提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
437.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
460.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
對 我就舉例啦我們基本上就是一個家庭家裡他是這個收出工媽媽是專業貴婦兩個名下財產過億喔如果沒有工作需求他就可以天天遊山玩水那家裡有一個10歲以下的小孩子他就可以申請嘛 對不對那如果這樣繞過他這樣對我們的這個提高的勞動力好像一點幫助都沒有啊你跟我意思嗎第一個我還是要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
462.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
478.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們剛剛在講到其實現在絕大多數來表達希望申請的確都是雙薪家庭那這個雙薪家庭他有他在工作跟家務分配上面這樣的需求對啦你們的出發點是對啦那我剛剛提醒你的時候你沒有剛剛沒有限制這個項目的時候你這個這個所謂的這個增加勞動的這個政策啊會變成富人管家的補助計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
491.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
508.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
其實你在兩年前你也要求我們我覺得是好事啊請我們願意要開放邦庸啊對對對我沒有反對我現在不是反對我的意思是說你們的規則你們的審查資格都沒有寫清楚你懂我意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
510.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
529.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
原本是三個小孩六歲以下這的確在現代的家庭結構裡面是過度嚴格的所以我們希望能夠把它放寬那在這個放寬的過程裡面第一個我們針對如果是弱勢比方說如果家長是生長或者是小孩的狀況是早療或者是發展遲緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
531.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
553.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
包括這些東西我們都做了優先的配套的設計你不用再跟我解釋這件事情時間沒有很多啦我其實我是支持這個政策但是我希望你們把這個政策的規則寫清楚不要到時候搞得亂七八糟的各位說明我們會把配套做好那再來我想請部長請回我想請這個行政院理副秘書長人總我們的理處長保訓會蔡處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
562.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
580.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我先請教你們三位就是代表的我們台灣公務體系最核心的人事與法治單位那我先請教您你們在過去的公務生涯當中有沒有親自擔任過職場霸凌小組的調查委員或親自撰寫過這個霸凌案的這個認定報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
584.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
609.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有沒有去擔任過跟委員報告 我擔任過調查委員但是我沒有寫過調查報告對 因為我看到你們 你們有講到就是說現在行政院是外聘四個嘛 對不對外聘四個調查委員那我請教一下 這四個裡面是誰在做主還是行政院另外有派人 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
610.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
623.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
跟委員報告那這一次的調查小組的話我們四位都是外聘委員那沒有內部委員沒有內部委員那誰為主導呢誰為主導啊如果他們四個調查回來兩個說有問題兩個又說沒有那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
629.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
650.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
調查小組是四個人,他會分工共同調查但是出那個報告的話,是四個人共同出一份報告,沒有出四份報告那如果四個人都講不好怎麼辦?四個人他們自己內部會有開會,他們會協調出共同的結論會討論出一個共同的結論,那你們就會照做嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
656.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
682.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們會照做嗎你們會照他們的報告做嗎因為這一次就是為了要公正跟客觀嘛為了要釐清事實的真相所以我們自己的內部委員是沒有介入調查的那對於他的報告我們當然會信任跟尊重啊對啦 我不希望說這四個大家調查到後來然後沒有一個結論到時候又不了了之啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
683.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
711.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
不會那到時候誰要介入是你們介入還是誰介入他是這樣子他的過程中的話現在由調查小組先去調查那調查完以後會出一份調查報告出稿那這個要多久你們現在調查要多久依照規定的時限是兩個月必要可以延長一個月但是院長昨天已經宣示了我們會盡量在規定兩個月的期限內完成報告好那我們就靜待報告了好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
714.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
715.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝邱政軍委員的資訊 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-04-01T10:16:31.701000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-04-01T10:16:35.896000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
主席好，請洪部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-04-01T10:16:35.896000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-04-01T10:16:41.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
有請洪部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-04-01T10:16:41.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-04-01T10:16:46.300000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
邱委員早。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-04-01T10:16:46.300000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-04-01T10:16:51.502000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
部長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-04-01T10:16:51.502000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-04-01T10:17:02.772000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
我看到在4月13號即將上路的家事移工新制，乍看之下是好事，可是我仔細想想，裡面好像有很多問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-04-01T10:17:02.772000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-04-01T10:17:21.853000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
我在這邊請教部長，我們決定開出一張144萬人的空頭支票，讓家長認為有便宜的勞動力可以用，至於人從哪裡來，勞動部好像也沒說明。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.981 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-04-01T10:17:23.754000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-04-01T10:17:43.445000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
目前只管把這個門檻拆掉，引發徙工潮，讓原本照顧老人的看護都跑去照顧小孩，至於以後小孩怎麼長大、臺灣保母會不會失業、長照體系會不會崩盤，好像不是勞動部要關心的問題，數據好看比較重要。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-04-01T10:17:44.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-04-01T10:18:09.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
我看到衛福部的報告，我們承認國家一起養小孩子的這個牛皮吹破了，既然公托蓋不夠，本國保母又太貴，我們決定棄守專業照護的底線，反正只要把這批移工定義為家務幫傭而非專業保母，未來家裡出事就不歸衛福部管。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.989 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-04-01T10:18:11.169000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-04-01T10:18:24.916000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
我們只負責發幾份數位教材求個心安，至於144萬個小孩的成長品質跟本土托育產業的崩解，那是家庭的私事與市場的競爭，請大家自求多福。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-04-01T10:18:26.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-04-01T10:18:48.570000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
從這兩份書面報告我們可以看到，政府的政策現在已經簡化到只要有人看小孩，讓大人去工廠或辦公室上班就是成功的政策，至於小孩照顧得好不好、本國保母有沒有飯吃，國家養的這個政策是否名存實亡，在4月1號的報告裡面都沒有看到具體的解決方案。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.99 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-04-01T10:18:49.710000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-04-01T10:19:03.576000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
我先請教衛福部，你們現在定調的這個勞動政策，家務幫傭不涉及專業托育，請教一下，你有沒有去過任何一個家裡有小孩同時又請了移工的家庭、你看過他們的真實生活嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.93 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-04-01T10:19:04.556000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-04-01T10:19:26.938000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
在你們這種表格化的腦袋裡世界是切開來的，這一欄是移工在廚房，洗碗、煮飯、掃地，這叫勞動部的勞動政策；另一欄是小孩在哭、在爬要換尿布，這叫衛福部的社政業務，但現實生活中這兩件事不是分開的……只要家裡有小孩，移工的手隨時都會觸碰到。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-04-01T10:19:27.799000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-04-01T10:19:40.043000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
我再請問，萬一這個事情成真之後，這144萬個家庭當中，如果發生了嚴重的移工虐童案件，這是屬於誰要負責的？ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.932 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-04-01T10:19:46.151000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:12.700000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
我還是再重申一次，委員剛剛所說的，我覺得可能會有一些些的小小偏頗，我必須要跟委員報告，所有的這些政策，其實基本上大概都是一籃子的政策，對於這些部分我們有津貼、有公托，我們也需要給家長時間，目前全世界在推行對於育兒家庭最重要的，事實上就是有這些綜合的政策工具。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:13.400000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:17.942000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
我請問衛福部好了，衛福部對於本土的保母，當初的要求是要受訓、要訪視……沒錯。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.812 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:17.942000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:22.004000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
要定期考核，因為衛福部說要專業，對不對？沒錯。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:22.004000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:22.545000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
要管得到。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:22.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:23.305000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
我們這個也即時…… |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:24.085000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:24.085000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
現在呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:24.085000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:25.085000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
在更動…… |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:24.205000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:25.046000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
針對這144萬個家庭，如果引進外籍幫傭，這個部分你怎麼處理？ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:30.604000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:36.588000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
報告委員，這兩個並不是互相替代的，是互相補充的。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.905 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:36.788000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:38.389000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
那他不會照顧到小孩嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:39.570000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:42.831000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
你給這些家庭請外勞的用意是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:43.012000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:44.973000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
報告委員，目前容我…… |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:46.233000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-04-01T10:20:51.677000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
他不會……請過來後，你現在是將年齡限制在12歲以下，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.87 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-04-01T10:20:51.837000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:02.261000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
報告委員，讓我再簡單說明一下，我們目前針對家庭照顧有三個層次：一個叫teacher，第二個是babysitter，第三個叫housekeeper，這三個是不一樣的。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:03.122000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:04.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
但是這三個不一樣，其實大家每一個家庭…… |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.824 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:05.122000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:07.263000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
一個家庭有辦法處理這麼多人嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:07.263000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:10.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
他有辦法消化嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:10.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:11.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
所以目前我們根據個別的需求。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:10.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:12.864000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
他領的錢有辦法去做這麼多的事情嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:13.565000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:22.007000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
報告委員，現在每一個家庭都有不同的階段，都有他們不同的需求，所以我覺得這裡面，事實上我們應該要有比較綜合性的…… |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.84 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:22.007000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:24.528000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
我請問這些幫傭能不能照顧小孩？幫傭…… |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:27.515000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:28.075000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
這些外勞。 |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:31.078000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:34.120000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
他當然……報告委員，讓我再重複一次…… |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:34.360000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:34.580000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
我就這樣問嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:35.241000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:37.683000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
他能不能照顧小孩……那是不是就要照你的規定？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:37.763000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:44.569000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
外傭的工作內容大概有幾個部分，房舍清理、食物烹調，但是就家庭成員也要照顧他的起居。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.919 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:44.569000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:45.569000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
對，他需要領保母證照嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:45.009000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:46.330000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
所以他請這個當然是子女…… |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:46.430000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:47.011000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
對，他要不要領保母證照？ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
呂次長建德 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:51.419000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:57.506000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
他是幫傭，他跟保母是不一樣的，所以我剛剛就講了，一個叫housekeeper，一個叫babysitter。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.792 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-04-01T10:21:57.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-04-01T10:21:58.928000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
你怎麼去界定這個事情？ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-04-01T10:22:01.051000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-04-01T10:22:04.815000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
外勞請到家裡以後，你怎麼去限制他這個不能碰、那個不能碰？ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.92 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-04-01T10:22:05.916000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-04-01T10:22:06.357000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
你懂我的意思嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-04-01T10:22:08.823000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-04-01T10:22:38.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
委員，其實現在大家對保母的專業期待很高，比方說他的健康照顧，還有他對發展的支持，就是小孩早期發展的引導，甚至也包括一些親職上面的顧問或者是親職上面的協助，當然這些都是現在專業保母被期待扮演的一些角色，這些工作當然是外籍幫傭無法做的。對啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-04-01T10:22:38.892000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-04-01T10:22:48.435000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
我現在要講的就是我發現了問題點，所以我現在是提醒你們，你們要把這個事情釐清，把它做得清楚一點、寫得清楚一點。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.939 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-04-01T10:22:49.156000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-04-01T10:23:01.902000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
部長，我還再問你一個問題，我們今天的這項政策是要讓家長安心去工作，提高我們的勞動力，邏輯上申請人應該都要在職場，對吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-04-01T10:23:03.574000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-04-01T10:23:18.143000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
可是我只有看到在申請的時候要戶口名簿、申請表、身障或罕病證明，你們沒有寫要提供這兩個人的在職證明或勞保紀錄吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.843 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-04-01T10:23:20.404000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-04-01T10:23:29.251000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
委員，其實現在大部分來跟我們要求、希望來申請的，絕大部分的確都是雙薪家庭，這是確定的。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.921 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-04-01T10:23:29.631000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-04-01T10:23:30.372000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
但你沒有限制啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-04-01T10:23:30.772000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-04-01T10:23:31.693000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
你沒有寫清楚啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-04-01T10:23:31.693000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-04-01T10:23:33.155000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-04-01T10:23:33.155000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-04-01T10:23:37.279000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
委員，我們的申請條件現在就是家有1名12歲以下的小孩。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.682 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-04-01T10:23:40.002000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-04-01T10:23:41.544000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
我看了報告，報告上就是沒寫，所以我現在提醒你。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.55 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-04-01T10:23:44.245000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-04-01T10:23:45.225000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
我們基本上就是看要照顧的對象。 |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-04-01T10:23:46.426000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-04-01T10:23:58.510000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
我舉例來說，家裡的爸爸是收租公、媽媽是專業貴婦，兩個人名下的財產過億，如果沒有工作需求，他就可以天天遊山玩水，在家裡有一個12歲以下的小孩子，他就可以申請，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.817 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-04-01T10:23:58.630000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-04-01T10:24:03.232000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
如果是這樣的話，對我們提高勞動力好像一點幫助都沒有啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.88 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-04-01T10:24:03.932000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-04-01T10:24:05.313000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
你懂我的意思嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-04-01T10:24:05.313000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-04-01T10:24:20.176000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
委員，第一個，我還是要說，就像我們剛剛講到的，其實現在絕大多數表達希望申請的確都是雙薪家庭，雙薪家庭在工作跟家務分配上有這樣的需求，這個需求是很明確的。對啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.789 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-04-01T10:24:20.316000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-04-01T10:24:24.358000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
我知道你們的出發點是對的，我剛剛是要提醒你，在沒有限制這個項目的時候，你這個增加勞動的政策會變成富人管家的補助計畫。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.87 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-04-01T10:24:37.586000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-04-01T10:24:42.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
委員，其實你在兩年前也要求我們要研議開放幫傭啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.545 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-04-01T10:24:42.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-04-01T10:24:48.653000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
我覺得這是好事，我沒有反對，我現在不是反對。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-04-01T10:24:48.653000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-04-01T10:24:49.653000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
當年你們的提案也要我們研議開放幫傭啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2026-04-01T10:24:48.653000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2026-04-01T10:24:54.997000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
我的意思是說你們的規則、審查資格都沒有寫清楚，你懂我的意思嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2026-04-01T10:24:56.538000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2026-04-01T10:25:06.127000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
委員，原本是3個小孩、6歲以下，這的確以現代的家庭結構來講是過度嚴格的，所以我們希望能夠予以放寬。 |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2026-04-01T10:25:06.307000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2026-04-01T10:25:20.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
在這個放寬的過程裡面，第一個，如果是弱勢，比方說家長是身障、小孩的狀況是早療或者是發展遲緩，包括這些東西，我們都做了優先的配套設計。 |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2026-04-01T10:25:20.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2026-04-01T10:25:31.800000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
部長，你不用再跟我解釋這個，因為我沒有很多的時間，我其實支持這個政策，但是我希望你們把這個政策的規則寫清楚，不要到時候搞得亂七八糟的，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.812 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
洪部長申翰 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2026-04-01T10:25:32.420000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2026-04-01T10:25:33.440000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
跟委員說明，我們會把配套做好。 |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.769 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2026-04-01T10:25:36.541000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2026-04-01T10:25:36.961000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
好，部長請回。 |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2026-04-01T10:25:37.361000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2026-04-01T10:26:06.919000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
我想請教行政院李副秘書長、人總李處長和保訓會蔡處長，你們3位就是代表我們臺灣公務體系最核心的人事與法制單位，請問你們過去的公務生涯當中有沒有親自擔任過職場霸凌小組的調查委員或親自撰寫過霸凌案的認定報告？ |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
李副秘書長國興 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2026-04-01T10:26:11.158000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2026-04-01T10:26:17.523000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
跟委員報告，我擔任過調查委員，但是我沒有寫過調查報告。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2026-04-01T10:26:20.325000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2026-04-01T10:26:30.272000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
你們有講到現在行政院是外聘4個調查委員，對不對？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2026-04-01T10:26:30.412000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2026-04-01T10:26:33.034000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
我請教一下，這4個人裡面是誰作主？ |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2026-04-01T10:26:33.895000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2026-04-01T10:26:34.996000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
還是行政院另外有派人？ |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
李副秘書長國興 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2026-04-01T10:26:36.580000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2026-04-01T10:26:44.225000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
跟委員報告，這一次的調查小組，我們4位都是外聘委員，沒有內部委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2026-04-01T10:26:44.225000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2026-04-01T10:26:46.106000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
沒有內部委員，那誰來主導呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2026-04-01T10:26:48.707000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2026-04-01T10:26:49.728000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
如果他們4個完成調查以後，有2個人說有問題、有2個人說沒有問題，那怎麼辦？ |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
李副秘書長國興 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2026-04-01T10:26:55.890000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2026-04-01T10:27:06.554000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
調查小組有4個人，他們會分工共同調查，但是提出報告是由4個人共同提出一份報告，不是提出4份報告。 |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
0.805 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2026-04-01T10:27:07.455000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2026-04-01T10:27:10.676000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
如果4個人講的不一樣，4個人之間講不好，怎麼辦？ |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
0.526 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
李副秘書長國興 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2026-04-01T10:27:10.956000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2026-04-01T10:27:14.898000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
這4個人自己在內部有開會，他們會協調出共同的結論。 |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2026-04-01T10:27:14.898000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2026-04-01T10:27:16.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
會討論出一個共同的結論？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2026-04-01T10:27:16.238000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2026-04-01T10:27:27.686000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
你們就會照他們的報告做嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
李副秘書長國興 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2026-04-01T10:27:27.686000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2026-04-01T10:27:40.731000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
因為就是為了要公正跟客觀，為了要釐清事實的真相，所以我們自己內部的委員是沒有介入調查的，對於他們的報告，我們當然會信任跟尊重。 |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2026-04-01T10:27:41.791000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2026-04-01T10:27:49.635000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
對，我不希望在這4個人調查以後，最後沒有一個結論，到時候又不了了之。不會。 |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
0.871 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2026-04-01T10:27:49.775000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2026-04-01T10:27:50.515000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
到時候是誰要介入？ |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2026-04-01T10:27:50.655000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2026-04-01T10:27:51.796000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
是你們介入還是誰介入？ |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
李副秘書長國興 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2026-04-01T10:27:53.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2026-04-01T10:28:02.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
在這個過程中，現在是由調查小組先去調查，在調查完以後會提出一份調查報告的初稿。 |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
0.806 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2026-04-01T10:28:04.222000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2026-04-01T10:28:05.123000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
你們現在調查要多久？ |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
李副秘書長國興 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2026-04-01T10:28:05.763000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2026-04-01T10:28:15.128000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
依照規定的時限是2個月，必要時可以延長1個月，但是院長昨天已經宣示了，我們會儘量在規定的2個月期限內完成報告。 |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
邱委員鎮軍 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2026-04-01T10:28:15.669000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2026-04-01T10:28:20.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
好，那我們就靜待報告。好。謝謝。謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2026-04-01T10:28:20.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2026-04-01T10:28:21.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
謝謝邱鎮軍委員的質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2026-04-01T10:28:21.764000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2026-04-01T10:28:24.906857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
接下來請蘇清泉委員質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2026-04-01T10:28:25.206857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2026-04-01T10:28:29.492571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
在劉建國委員質詢完畢後休息10分鐘。 |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
0 |