| IVOD_ID |
168071 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168071 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-01T09:26:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-01T09:40:48+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c15e51d6f4ad663e3bad885c3c28ba2b2d712538f072f31b2ab1e007f00cecbda5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:26:56 - 09:40:48 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。） |
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主席 麻煩部長請部長部長好 辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
12.725 |
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38.975 |
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今天我第一個題目我們再來關心一下洪都拉斯的局勢啦是2023年的時候當時的洪都拉斯總統秀美拉在3月份這個秀美拉卡斯楚決定要跟台灣斷交當時在洪都拉斯的國會呢有一個國會議員叫做托馬斯贊布拉諾他當時的發言認為說跟台灣斷交呢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
48.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
是錯誤的 跟中國建交是百弊而無一利當時這一個贊布拉諾提出示警 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
49.622 |
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77.749 |
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在2023年3月的洪都拉斯國會呢占卜拉諾國會議員這位議員呢代表的是親美派跟親台派不斷地立足但他失敗因為當時的選票結構當時的洪都拉斯當時的洪都拉斯的秀美拉呢一心一意就往中國轉那這一位占卜拉諾呢到2026年我們看2026年前幾天3月份的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
78.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
81.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
他現在已經是洪都拉斯的國會議長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
83.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
108.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
他表達的幾件事情因為他來自於洪都拉斯南部的選區他說光蝦類養殖業因為中國的騙局就損失一萬五千個就業機會不只這樣子中國大量廉價的產品進入到洪都拉斯讓洪都拉斯原來的中小企業中小商業整個破產他還秀出一些信說中小企業寫信給這個國會議長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
110.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
131.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
中國的謊言讓洪都拉斯的人民非常痛苦所以他講了一句話他支持跟中國斷交恢復對台邦交國會會請全力支持他現在是國會議長我要問的第一個問題就是我們外交部有沒有計畫邀請托馬斯·贊布拉諾來台灣訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
135.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
161.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為我們跟洪都拉雖然斷交那只有三年的時間但很多的人脈我們都還是維繫所以都有持續在互動中那當然現在因為他們的阿斯福拉總統的政見有講要跟台灣恢復邦交那國會議長也公開的主張那確實他多數的民意也是支持跟台灣發展外交關係所以這些邀訪呢適當的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
164.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
189.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個方式我們都會來做我們對非邦交國的重要政要其實我們都有在邀請歐洲的啦 南泰的啦 我們都有在邀請那這一位托馬斯·贊布拉諾呢坦白講他的態度很一貫2023年 甚至於2023年以前甚至於到現在擔任國會議長他的態度對台灣是非常的友善那現在又貴為紅國的最新的國會議長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
191.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
212.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那我剛才問的問題很簡單就是我們有沒有正式邀請他有機會來台灣走走因為我們現狀有在做這些事情嘛對這一位托馬斯我們有沒有邀請我們都有跟他我們都有跟這些政要溝通的就是持續維持這樣的一個互動他最近會來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
214.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
226.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為這涉及到我想包括議長跟整個他們政府包括總統之間他們怎麼樣去能夠來進行因為在很久的將來他們快休會了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
228.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
251.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
委員的意見我有聽到所以這邀訪是一個好的動作啦那你剛有提到紅國的民意很高喔他們現在親中派的國會議員一席都沒有當選全軍覆沒這個我覺得對台灣來講是一個很好的警醒一席都沒有親中派的國會議員一個都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
251.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
277.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那第一大黨執政黨跟第二大黨其實都是親美親台派那民意是這樣的態度那新任的總統選前選後也表達認為跟台灣合作是正確的加上美國的台北法案把他們的外交工具特別在中南美洲是跟台灣的外交是綁在一起的那總統的態度很明確那加上國會議長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
278.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
296.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們跟紅國目前官方的接觸到什麼程度都有管道可以溝通所以當然這個總統有他整個處理外交事務的一個方向跟節奏 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
298.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
316.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
當然議長包括他們副總統也都是很正面的表達那是跟台灣的外交的關係這裡面也涉及到我想中共可能的一些經濟脅迫或者是在對他們內政的操弄還有包括像華為這些長期已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
319.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
331.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
可以說深入到他社會的這些勢力那這個當然就是很複雜的情形包括他們商界雖然大多數人是主張跟台灣來恢復邦交 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
332.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
353.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
可是也有一些可能有跟中國在做生意的他們的經濟有的是綁個人那國家受害個人未必受害這個我們可以理解某一些特殊狀況那我最後有關這個題目要問的是我們有沒有agenda我們有沒有什麼樣的進程在處理我們對外關係尤其紅國這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
354.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
382.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
紅國不是只有紅國 旁邊薩爾瓦多啦等等其實它是一個區域包含川普總統對中南美洲他現在所謂的唐羅主義他們有一些想法然後Rubio也針對洪都拉斯跟我們國家的關係也發表過樂見的談話我請教我們外交部 你可以不揭露細節但我請問外交部 我們現在跟洪都拉斯的互動有沒有一個進程 有一個agenda在那邊在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
382.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
405.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我想自從在選舉到選後我們都有保持溝通跟他們的政府就是對現在的政府他先前是在野黨包括行政跟國會的部門我們都有很多的友人我們也有管道在跟他們溝通你們有沒有一個進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
406.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
432.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
因為這個外交這種事情我們是開放的態度而對方因為他對方已經講得很明顯了事實上你委員提到其實美國現在川普政府的西半球政策也是鼓勵而且這不是單獨只有宏都拉斯包括周邊國家尤其是中美洲這個是一個局域性的整個外交政策的一個變化這個可能不只牽涉到拉美中南美洲 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
433.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
459.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
可能連南太這個局勢都會有影響所以身為我們國家外交部長這一個我不會把它視為骨牌但它是一個國際氛圍的改變掌握得好我們國家會在這裡面外交上會有一些正向的發展所以我不逼問細節因為細節外交總是有很多我們不見得要掀鍋蓋但我希望我們外交部是有一個進程在推進當中那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
460.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
477.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
拉美斯這些負責的同仁也辛苦因為這一塊永遠是最激烈的角力當中我第二個問題要請教的是中國很幼稚就是你跟他好我就不跟你好那個真的很像幼兒園就是中國去 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
478.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
501.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
制裁古屋歸斯 他是日華墾的會長而且古屋歸斯跟台灣的友好不是近幾年欸 是很長期了那如果再加上石屏參議員啦 閻其茂他們之前的參謀總長啦 閻其茂或者是包含高市早苗 或者已經不幸過世的安倍啦或者他的弟弟岸信夫 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
502.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
525.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
中國對於凡是跟台灣友好往來的人他想要用長臂管轄長臂管轄另外一個名詞叫什麼呢干涉他國內政他就直接去制裁啦處理當然古巫歸世有表達說我根本就不去我又不去中國這個制裁對他無效但他們有很多經濟很多假錯訊息個人侮辱的方式去處理這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
525.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
548.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那用這種幼稚粗魯的方式介入他國內政介入我國跟其他國際友人正常的往來那你身為我們國家的發言人國家的外交部長那對這件事情你的看法還有我們有沒有更具體的做法去讓這些友人感受到我們台灣的溫暖 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
550.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
560.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
報告委員我們在外交部第一時間當然也有對外表示對中共的戰狼外交或針對個人這種跨境所謂的長臂管轄甚至干涉內政我們是表達抗議也跟國務規師議員方面我們也有表達對他的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
579.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
603.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那中共他的外交有時候為什麼很不理性在很多人看來包括他對Marco Rubio也是列為制裁對象他不是罵Rubio 他是制裁Rubio然後現在為了Rubio要陪川普去中國把那個Rubio的魯改一個中文字就好像是兩個人就是幼稚又粗魯的外交手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
604.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
622.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
確實剛才委員講到他其實對這些民主國家他比較難為所欲為但是對一些國家他是完全去介入人家國家的外交或內政我是建議我們外交部我昨天有注意到你們對古屋歸斯的聲援對中國的欠責 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
624.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
643.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
試試看能不能把這些被中國莫名其妙制裁的國際友人來台灣辦個研討會 都接來啦你坐下都在這裡讓國際看到一個正常的國際往來台灣一個真實的存在台灣友好的跟這些國際友人的互動我們沒有傷害任何人欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
644.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
669.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
台灣沒有做錯任何事情我們買武器保護自己是因為有人威脅我們有盜匪在我們門口我們跟國際友人交往我們善盡地球村的義務台灣沒有做錯任何事情而我們國內的內部親中共的人士包含中國動輒把這些行動怎麼挑釁好像我們做錯事情一樣那個是根本是顛倒是非所以我建議外交部這邊的聲援更大一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
669.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
696.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
甚至透過活動的方式展現出台灣在國際真實存在善盡責任以及這些國際友人對我們的支持這個我是覺得可以多做一些啦那我最後只請教一個問題我看到南韓把對我們台灣入境卡的不當稱呼而且呢之前也不溝通那你給他的期限是3月31號昨天到期了昨天到期了那我看到你們有個聲明說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
699.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
720.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個南韓要這個有一些調整因應作為所以我們相對因應的反制作為就先暫緩我請教是他們要做什麼調整就你了解就是有關於這個電子路徑卡他會調整調整他會調整可是今天4月1號他什麼時候要調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
721.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
737.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
就是他們行政作業需要一點時間那他們也有對外的說明這是確認啦我跟我們交涉另外他們也有對外他們外交部也有對外我想媒體也有報導因為這個東西如果能夠一個交涉成功的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
738.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
755.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
維護我們的國格我覺得是一個蠻重要的很多人以為外交務實不要務虛其實對外交來講象徵跟實質是一樣重要symbolic跟substantial是一樣的重要的所以我從這裡引到另外一個問題是我們跟南非現在怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
757.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
783.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們在南非還是維持我們的管處嘛那雖然他有一些單方的行為我們也不予承認在約寶還是在Pulitoria在Pulitoria還在那裡然後原來我們的代表處然後他雖然要求我們簽紙然後改名甚至幫我們降格可是事實上我們在那邊還是維持我們原來的運作我們在南非的運作跟原來一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
784.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
799.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
位置跟原來一樣然後現在就是把這個局勢和緩下來對因為他們也給我們一個版本說要交涉那當然這個我們就持續交涉中所以我們大概什麼時候可以把南韓又叫回韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
802.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
822.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那個是另外一個我們所謂的他調整好我覺得只要有善意的表達我們都是基於我想互相的平等跟尊重什麼時候這個稱呼大家可以恢復彼此正常我們也正在看這個調整這個月有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
824.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
826.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
預期是這樣子預期是在短期內就讓委員講的 |