| IVOD_ID |
16807 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16807 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-09T08:30:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-09T16:57:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
08:26:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a6091d28ad37f5503b0aad9f551ce5fa921f0d5b2c3b93916c3924606703262f7bfd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議（事由：總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:15 - 16:57:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1793.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1809.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好,報告全員委員會,我們現在開始開會,請秘書長報告出席人數。報告全員委員會,出席委員是三人,已足法定人數。我們現在開會進行報告事項,請秘書長宣讀第三會期第三次,全員委員會議事錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1811.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1826.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
宣讀立法案第11屆第三會議及第三次全體委員會會議事錄時間中華民國114年4月11日上午10時48分至11時18分地點表現異常出席委員、讀委員、名才等112人請假委員、客戶委員見名 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1828.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1855.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主席院長韓國瑜報告事項第一案宣讀表演第十一屆第三會期第二次全院委員會議事錄決定確定討論事項第一二案決議提報院會以記名投票表決議宣讀完畢報告全院委員會針對第三會期第三次全院委員會的議事錄並沒有委員或黨團提出錯誤及遺漏之處我們現在做以下決定第三會期第三次全院委員會議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1858.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1859.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
包括全委會我們現在進行討論事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1861.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1888.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
总统之为司法院大法官韩院长、副院长现有缺额7名。之依据中华民国宪法征修条文第五条规定,提名蔡秋明、苏素娥、肖文生、郑存慧、林立寅、陈慈阳、张振荣等7位为司法院大法官,并以蔡秋明为院长。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1891.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1910.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
輸數額為副院長,知請同意案。本案經本會期第16次會議決定,於7月9日10日、14日召開全院委員會並合併為一次會進行審查,因此於本次會議提出審查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1913.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1934.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
報告全院委員會今天上午審查司法院大法官並為院長被提名人蔡秋明之資格及是否事任相關事宜現在請被提名人蔡秋明先生說明時間十分鐘請 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1946.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1972.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
主席各位委員各位女士各位先生大家好我是蔡秋明今天很榮幸以司法院大法官並為院長被提名人身份前來大院接受審查有幸獲得總統提名這是我一生最大的榮譽當然也是一個很大的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1974.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1998.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
台灣自從1987年解除戒嚴以來得利於民主憲政體制的正常運作人民得以享有高度的自由、人權與尊嚴逐漸成為一個民主法治國家今天的台灣在全球的自由度評比與民主指數都名列前茅 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2000.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2026.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這種得來不易的民主成果值得我們大家珍惜最近有一位媒體朋友寫給我一封公開信建議我以法治守護民權我非常認同我認為我們既要以法治守護民權也要藉法治鞏固民主用法治保護家園 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2028.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2052.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
憑法治安身立命如果有機會獲得大院的支持擔任新職我一定竭盡所能堅持法治精神獨立審判維護國家憲政秩序保障人民基本權利與尊嚴確保台灣得來不易的民主自由成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2054.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2071.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
自從獲得總統提名以來各界對於是否適合由檢察官擔任司法院院長有些不同的看法我自己也曾經對這個問題思索再三我國檢察官與法官所受的基礎訓練內容其實完全相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2073.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2098.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
自從擔任司法工作以來司法獨立、公平審判、中立執法、追求正義這些應該堅守的態度與價值我從來不曾改變在過去的任職期間我曾經在地方高等最高檢察署擔任檢察官分別對應過各級法院的法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2099.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2123.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我也曾调任到法务部以及行政院办事并且在法务部担任国际级两岸法律司司长达四年之久也有了相当的行政主管历练我想有一个有多年公司司法实务经验的人担任司法行政首长应该更能理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2125.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2149.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
審檢辯在不同角色的定位與界限也更能促進不同法律人之間的理解與對話我相信審判獨立程序透明尊重專業信賴同仁是一位司法行政首長應有的堅持也是我個人個人未來工作的方向的指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2151.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2180.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在談到未來的司法願景之前我想先說明目前司法機關面臨的困境接著報告未來及格努力的方向根據我個人觀察台灣的法官檢察官的能力跟素質都很高他們普遍工作也非常投入但是因為手上案件太多幾乎每天都有加班的班目前各級法院法官的辦案負擔確實非常的沉重 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2181.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2206.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
沉重的案件負荷不但會降低審判效率也可能會影響到裁判品質解決司法過勞問題將是我有幸擔任新職之後的重要目標也期盼未來能得到大院以及行政部門的支持以下我請就司法院的全責四項提出幾個未來的努力方向第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2207.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2235.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
法院工作負擔太重當然是因為現有人力不足上週的公聽會有先進建議大量增加法官助理和訴機關的員額這應該是一個正確的方向我們會再請人事單位仔細估算要建立一個合理的司法工作環境到底需要多少人力我們會盡一切努力向有關機關爭取增加員額 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2237.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2265.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第二 進入審判程序的案件數量必須減少我若就任 會與主管刑法修正的法務部協調設法將法役侵害比較輕微的不法行為除罪化增加告訴乃論的罪名種類鼓勵在偵查階段推廣多元的訴訟外紛爭解決機制希望能減少法院的入口案件量 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2266.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2292.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第三 在減輕法官裁判書類撰寫負擔方面我們會在獲得社會支持的前提下提供可行的案件處理協助系統我們也會同時訂定專屬的AI發展指引與確保技術應用的安全性與司法性我知道台灣民眾對司法機關的表現並不滿意 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2294.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2311.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
但是我們也看到一些希望司法院自從112年開始實施國民法官參與重大案件審判到目前為止社會上的反應基本上是肯定的那從明年開始還有更多的案件會進入國民參審程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2312.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2329.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我認為要提高人民對司法的信賴最好的方法就是盡量讓民眾接近司法甚至直接參與審判工作但是人民參與審判是相當耗時的程序我們會來研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2330.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2353.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
要如何創造讓法官支持這個制度的誘因例如推動在一定刑度以下的國民參審案件讓裁判書類的製作更簡化並且在人民參與程序精簡精實的前提下精簡後續的上訴程序在目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2354.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2376.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
各項外部司法滿意度民調中最讓民眾不滿意的一項就是良行不當他們認為重罪輕判那我們會盡快建立一套務實可行可以預測而有法律依據的良行基準消除外界對良行不公的觀感 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2378.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2395.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
未來我們會把犯罪被害人權益的保障也列為司法院的一項改革重點特別是被害人的訴訟地位保障我們期望透過這個改革能建過一個平衡保障被告以及被害人權益的司法環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2396.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2423.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
日後我們在嚴提重要重大修法草案時也會同步進行政策及人權影響評估以提升法案的嚴謹度與透明度關於部分需要與行政院共同彙顯的法案我們會本著尊重主政提案機關的立場意中求同獲取共識絕不會因為自己的法務背景而有所偏頗 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2425 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2449.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
中華民國是一個民主國 也必須是一個法治國我們不是沒有看見社會上對司法的不信任也不是不理解有人對憲法審判可能受到干預的焦慮但我相信 我們一定能堅持法治原則 站穩腳步 公開透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2450.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2473.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
獨立審判,讓台灣的司法往更合理、更成熟、更值得信賴的方向邁進。如果大院給我這個機會,我願意請盡全力,守護人民權利,穩健民主發展,引領司法改革,解決司法過勞,堅持獨立審判,促進機關和諧, |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2475.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2503.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
謝謝各位委員的指教我願繼續接受社會監督也誠摯希望與大家共同營造一個更值得人民信賴的司法環境謝謝大家謝謝蔡被提名人邱銘先生之說明現在我們要進行委員的詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2504.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2520.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
每位委員詢問時間為20分鐘,我們採集問集答的方式進行。輪到詢問的委員如不在場,視為棄權。首先,我們請黃國昌委員詢問,王逸川委員請準備。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2543.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2548.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝院長 麻煩有請蔡貝提名人麻煩蔡貝提名人接受詢問貝提名人您好台灣民眾黨黨團在審查司法院院長及大法官的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2567.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2589.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
在上一次大法官同意權行使的過程當中我們已經表明得非常的清楚有沒有勇氣對抗當權者扮演憲法守護者的角色去維護我國的民主憲政去貫徹我國的人權保障我相信這是最基本的要求不過很遺憾在您 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2590.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2616.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
回覆給本黨團問卷的內容我想先請問一下被提名人那都是你自己寫的嗎也有跟朋友請教的然後朋友請教 你請教哪些朋友大概都是我的同事我覺得非常詫異啊 被提名人你可以回去比對一下我發現你針對很多問題的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2617.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2639.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
基本上跟我們目前當權的民進黨政府所發出來的官方聲明大同小異大同小異我只有20分鐘的時間如果被提名有興趣的話會後我可以跟你講一題一題你所提供的答案為什麼我說跟民進黨政府所發的官方聲明大同小異我先針對具體的問題進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2641.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2663.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你是知道在賴清德上任一年以後全國人民最不滿意他施政表現的是哪一項?據我所知是司法是司法改革嗎?在2017年司法國會議以後搞了八年人民最不滿意是司法改革你覺得政府有沒有必要痛加檢討?有沒有必要? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2665.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2686.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我覺得有必要檢討有必要檢討你知不知道一年人民納稅人給司法院預算多少錢大概是1%多少錢錢的總數我沒有你要接任司法院院長現在司法院一年預算多少錢你不知道這會不會太離譜這很基本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2687.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2713.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你要增加司法預算那你最起碼要知道現在預算多少錢未來還要爭取多少錢這個不是最基本的嗎結果你現在一年預算多少錢你不知道我沒有計總數但是我知道大概是從2016年2017年到2025年我們的司法預算是不是節節上升是不是是的我直接跟你講這很基本的啦從2017年納稅人給了216億 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2717.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2745.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
到今年288億不斷的在上升納稅人給司法這樣的支持我們的司法滿意度是持續探底成為賴清德在執政人民最會滿意的事項但你剛回答一個問題最起碼我肯定需要痛加檢討嘛需要痛加檢討嘛但我們看不到政府有任何痛加檢討的決心我舉一個最簡單的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2746.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2766.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
目前上訴最高法院上訴第三審的案件民事案件要不要行言直辯論要不要行言直辯論依法該不該行言直辯論應該行言直辯論依法應該要言直辯論嘛現實上有言直辯論嗎有嗎民事的部分我比較不瞭解那刑事的部分你瞭解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2776.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2788.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
原則上不用言詞辯論嘛 另外才要嘛有必要才要嘛那你知不知道去年最高法院在民事案件原則上因行言詞辯論 行了幾件言詞辯論來我直接秀給你看啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2794.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2819.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
離譜的不得了啊最高法院上訴第三審的案件2003年我國為了建立金字塔型的訴訟制度上訴最高法院的案件依照民事訴訟法474條的規定應行延遲辯論但不必要則不在此件結果展現出來的是什麼民事上訴的案件一般的案件行延遲辯論的五件五件 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2820.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2849.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
現在有個最基礎的問題來了法官需不需要遵守法律 需要嗎當然還是法官可以置外於法律之外反正我是法官 誰拿我有批條民事訴訟法474條明文規定第三審上訴因行言之辯論請我們的最高法院把我們的法律當空氣耶一年上訴最高法院的案件行言之辯論五件耶這在開什麼玩笑啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2850.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2872.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
告一個那麼大的最高法院那麼好的法庭還有直播的設備結果一年刑五件延遲辯論蔡備提名人你覺得需不需要控加檢討這點我們會再來研究蔡備提名人你知道這件事情研究多久了嗎你是不是知道研究多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2873.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2891.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我第一次當立法委員的時候2016年下半年我第一次有機會最高法院的院長到立法院來備詢因為只有預算的時候他們要來嘛我提出了問題啊跟我說回去要檢討檢討了九年啊檢討了九年啊這就是檢討九年的結果啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2895.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2913.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
當法官認為我是最高法院的法官沒有人拿我有任何皮條的時候台灣是什麼法治國家人民要守法法官不要守法這樣對嗎蔡院長你上任司法院院長以後打算怎麼處理這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2915.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2930.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
民事的部分我比較不熟悉你接下來要當司法院院長啊你不能夠說我只處理刑事的我民事的不管啊我沒有說我只處理刑事的你接下來打算要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2931.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2958.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
民事的部分我想應該要先去深入了解這個原因到底為什麼深入了解很久了啦九年我們繼續往下看因為接下來要當憲法法庭的大法官特別要當司法院院長權力分立的原則人權的保障我國憲法的規定基本上就以這兩個為基石我們來看看您所謂的人權觀念跟權力分立啊您的認識啊是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2961.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2986.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
邱泰山你以前法務部的老長官嘛你當國兩司的時候就是他當部長把你拉進去的嘛2019年的時候離開法務部當國安諮詢委員可以把桃園地檢署的檢察長叫來叫他指示下面的檢察官要幫一個富商逃稅的案子做認罪協商可以做這種事嗎來請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2990.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3004.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這個事情我只從媒體的報導高檢署都有調查報告出來啦我現在只問你一般的抽象法律原則嘛為高權重當過法務部部長的人可以幹這件事嗎還是之前的老長官你不方便講做這種事情的人應不應該負法律責任來請教法律責任我不敢說就是要看實際的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3017.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3039.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
實際的狀況就是他找彭坤彥來啊 關說司法啊叫他幫富商 辦認罪協商啊彭坤彥回去就下條子給承辦檢察官 這都是客觀事實啊如果您不了解的話 高檢署的調查報告都出來了啊而且 那個時候立法院在追這件事情的時候 我第一任當立委你那時候也在法務部任職啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3040.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3066.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
但是我沒有看過這份報告我大概了解跟是從你連這件事情表示立場的勇氣都沒有連這個表示立場的勇氣都沒有這樣人民要如何期待你抗拒政治的壓力做好司法獨立審判我想要表示一個立場要先對事實有一定的了解那我接下來問你一定很清楚的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3068.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3078.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
2019年2月香港政府宣布要提出逃犯條例的修法你還記不記得你那時候的回應是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3080.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3108.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好像我曾經講過樂見其成樂見其成嘛你今天還覺得樂見其成嗎今天我覺得這個情勢的結果是當初所沒有預料到的2019年2月你說你沒有預料到來我們來看一看你的態度是怎麼轉變的香港提逃犯條例的修法你當初說樂見其成結果香港民運的領袖黃之鋒說什麼痛批你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3109.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3116.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
對你的說法百思不得其解啊為什麼會樂見其成你知不知道你的態度什麼時候轉變的你還記得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3119.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3144.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
是後來發現 就是因為對香港的政治情勢其實我們當時不是太了解政治的情勢很奇怪耶當初二月的時候 三月的時候整個香港民運人士都起來抗議了啊逃犯條例的法條也公佈了啊你作為我國國兩司的司長對於他們要搞的逃犯條例 你樂見其成被黃之鋒出來痛批 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3145.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3167.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
你回去有反省嗎我們確實不了解香港的政治三月他不就公佈了嗎是公佈是公佈那因為我們之前跟香港一直沒有進行司法互助的經驗那我們來我告訴你啦有沒有經驗喔根本不是重點為什麼不是重點我告訴你你什麼時候態度轉變的 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3168.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3193.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
你態度轉變啊一直到五月還在發新聞稿說樂建跟香港合作什麼時候轉變的來我給你看六月的時候蔡英文發文譴責賴清德痛批結果民進黨兩個位高權重的人出來痛批了以後馬上轉向國兩司六月十四號發聲明譴責大轉彎 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3199.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3216.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
在這個整個歷程看下來我基本上覺得您對於這件事情沒有中心的理念完全沒有中心的理念就是看上億辦事啊等到上面的人講話了才趕快迎合上億發聲明稿 是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3220.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3247.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個聲明稿我怎麼發的我現在我記不太清楚你也不記得啦沒關係啦你回去好好看看啦我說話我一定負責啊整個歷程我整理得非常的清楚啊社會大眾也可以檢驗看我今天站在這邊啊所提出來的批判到底合理還是不合理啊來下一個問題我們跟多少國家簽引渡條約你國兩司司長應該很清楚嗎引渡條約很少很少是幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3248.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3274.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
應該是個位數啦我現在沒有具體的數十一個國家啦十一個國家奇怪法務部的官這麼好當喔這麼基本的事實問題過去這十年沒有增加任何新的國家過去這十年沒有增加任何新的國家這不是你主管的法律嗎再往下看立法委員修法提高老農津貼有沒有違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3280.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3305.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
過去老農沒有津貼嘛我四千塊給他提升到六千元嘛照顧我們辛苦的農民嘛立法委員提案修法增加老農津貼有沒有違憲基本我認為是沒有違憲基本上認為沒有違憲那就很奇怪啦為什麼說很奇怪我問卷發給你啊結果你附和九龍派的說法說法律案增加政府支出違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3307.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3319.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
你還記得你寫的答案嗎我看了你寫的答案我非常驚訝我驚訝到說你的答案怎麼跟卓榮泰的聲明長的87%像 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3322.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3338.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
你基本上就符合卓榮泰的說法啊你今天又在這邊跟我講立法委員修法增加老農今天沒有違憲那我再請教你立法委員修法增加對於原住民的進法補償金額從每公頃三萬元提高到五萬元有沒有違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3341.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3363.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
基本上我認為沒有違憲基本上你認為沒有違憲 非常好記得你今天的答案回去再好好看看你給我們黨團的回覆怎麼會跟你今天在這邊的答覆差這麼多時間的關係我要一直往下走只有20分鐘 問題非常的多再來賴清德在所謂的團結實講中他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3367.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3395.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
他自己當立法委員12年沒有看過立法院通過一個法律被判決違憲痛批啊這個是在台灣史無前例啊贊不贊成賴清德這樣的說法我不是聽得很清楚就是之前的沒有被宣告違憲還是現在不是啊我問你啊提名你的應該是賴清德總統嘛是你有跟他見過面嗎見過一次面對啊他講的這個話很重欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3397.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3415.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
總統指責我們立法院耶說他自己當立法委員12年沒有看過這麼離譜的立法院通過法律被宣告違憲所以我才請教你 贊不贊成賴清德這樣的說法嗎還是你已經過著隱世獨居的生活外面社會發生什麼事情你都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3417.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3444.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
是有點這樣子是有點這樣哇天啊這樣很危險耶這是賴總統自己的觀察我想是他你贊不贊成我沒有辦法表示贊成沒關係啊但是你接下來就要表示意見來看一下立法院職權刑事法15條之二我沒有要你背啦我不會像考小學生一樣考你這樣對你不尊敬我把法條都列出來了這個條文有沒有違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3450.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3452.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這個條文的比較文字比較微妙因為跟憲法的規定有一點點 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3472.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3485.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
沒有關係啦因為你接下來要當憲法法庭的法官嘛這個不是Pending當中的案件Pending當中的案件我問你也不適當嘛這個已經是終結的案件嘛所以我問你這個條文有沒有違憲那個主席我的時間可不可以停下來因為我每次問他就禁止停格然後時間都跑我的這樣不好吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3500.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3505.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
時間暫停一下跟委員報告一下目前為止的節奏還算順暢好不好OK好來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3510.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3539.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我想這個是在文字上有解讀的問題因為從憲法的角度來看他是第二方面得聽取總統的國情報所以有沒有違憲表面上看起來是沒有違憲的表面上看起來沒違憲了你知不知道這個條文被我們憲法法庭宣告違憲了你知道嗎是的我了解你認為沒有違憲我們憲法法庭宣告違憲了我說表面上字面上看起來是嘛你知不知道這個條文什麼時候修的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3543.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3558.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
來我跟你講啊2008年賴清德當立委的時候修的啊我都覺得很奇怪了一個總統忘了自己當立委修過什麼法 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3559.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3584.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
結果自己修的法被立法院被憲法法庭宣告違憲臉皮很厚欸指責現在全體國會議員欸沒有看過你們這麼糟糕的立法委員啊修一個法律被宣告違憲總統這樣子的發言有國家元首的高度嗎還是總統希望挖一個坑給他自己跳下去看我們一般台灣的公民有沒有發現總統這樣的發言有總統的高度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3590.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3612.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
怎麼會自己修過法律自己都忘了欸高度的問題我不方便評論好來我們再往下看通訊監察法的規定來一樣我給你時間看通訊監察法規定通訊監察書偵查中有檢察官依照司法警察機關申請或依職權核發審判中有法官依職權核發這個條文有沒有違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3617.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3645.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
早期確實是有檢察官可以來就是來申請或者是監聽票啦檢察官發有沒有違憲有還是沒有現在被認為違憲我想這個有現在被認為違憲什麼時候被認為違憲的實際的時間實際的日期我沒有印象很早以前啦十幾年前了2007年快20年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3647.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3669.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
當初立這個法的,您知道是誰嗎?我不知道又是賴清德賴清德在當立委的時候說檢察官可以發監聽票後來什麼?4至631號2007年的大法官宣告違憲現在賴清德是在打臉誰?在打臉他自己嗎?在打臉他自己嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3670.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3698.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
重點是什麼 我們再往下看這都是人權保障非常重要的條款啊國家機器什麼時候可以去監聽法官保留還是檢察官保留這些事情都很重要嘛 對不對來 我們來看一下通保法相關的規定通訊監察要不要法官保留要法官保留通訊使用者資料調取要不要法官保留也要法官保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3699.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3728.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
通訊紀錄調取要不要法官保留?這個都是檢察官要很熟的事情啊也要法官保留網路流量紀錄要不要法官保留?這個我不確定好沒關係啊網路流量紀錄啊是我們去年修法可能對你來講這是新的法但是你剛剛的答案啊事實上是錯的為什麼?通訊使用者資料調取不用法官保留法務部向來的立場都是這個樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3729.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3758.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
你忘了嗎這很基本耶這非常基本耶好來 再來檢察官傳喚證人作證可以當場要求證人交出手機要求查看手機內的通訊內容嗎可不可以我想這個這個是刑事基本人權啦檢察官可以做這個 是嗎證人的話就比較不適宜就比較不適合 不要講不適合啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3760.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3770.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
對平民人,我們都是法律人,不是素人素人才會用形容詞在形容法律人就很清楚,可以這樣做嗎?這樣做嘛,本質上就是搜索嘛人民為什麼對司法還信任?今天的檢察官辦案,有告訴證人你有權拒絕嗎?有嗎?好 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3797.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3810.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
好 謝謝黃國昌委員的詢問謝謝蔡貝提名人的回答 謝謝蔡貝提你要不要休息一下 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3837.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3843.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
好接下來我們請本院第二位詢問的委員王逸川委員請詢問我們請院長請蔡提名人再請蔡備提名人請王委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3866.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3891.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
歡迎你到立法院來參與這一次的審查會剛剛委員的詢問你表現得還不錯謝謝該回答就回答因為很多在這裡審查其實是要羞辱你的還好你沒有動怒這個表現得很好第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3892.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3913.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
因為你接下來要當司法院的院長以後憲法法庭很多會議也要你來主持所以我是建議你接下來包括很多委員的巡檔針對很多的個案不用進行評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3915.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3940.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
因為我們知道憲法法庭即使憲法法庭在開會也要有公開說明會也要有延遲辯論那個都是還算蠻冗長的程序兩兆都必須陳述自己的意見然後大法官一一來詢問他們的質疑所以用這麼短暫的時間請你針對個案來表態 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3945.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3970.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
這個並不適合因為如果你針對個案來表態那就有是一個大法官有是一個司法院院長的高度這個可能建議你要小心因為以後你當司法院院長總不能你這個司法院上班的時候一堆媒體擋在司法院的門口問你說院長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3971.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3978.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這個上個禮拜有一個案子昨天有一個案子這樣這樣這樣那你有什麼看法你還侃侃而談這就不對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3981.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4001.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
因為你自己當檢察官每一個個案複雜的程序只有這個偵查中跟審判進行中的人這些相關的司法人員才知道全貌所以針對這些個別的個案我是建議你因為今天的審查這個李焕宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4003.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4022.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
有鬼守神 神仙龍虎豹 乎龍罷兵專業的不專業的都有就是你要謹守一個司法人員盡可能的不要去評論到個案因為這個很多個案可能也不是你理解的那樣第一個第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4026.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4038.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
請問這個被提名人 兵凶時啊兵凶時 你有在關心新聞啊 網路啊這些社會關注的案件啊在看 看了 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4039.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4069.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
你通常會跟你的同事討論 家人討論 朋友討論譬如說 我記得國中生殺死他的家人也有這種詐騙被騙得很慘的也有這一個說他這個精神善思心 神好作這些人他們去殺了他們的家人罪該萬死你現在要做提名人之前你遇到這些案子你通常會怎麼討論你的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4070.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4094.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我很少幾乎沒有跟同事討論案件就是跟司法案件有關的報導那如果是在家裡看電視的時候那可能跟太太一起看 可能會聊一下就這樣好 那你會你會這一個這個不由自主地說 哎呀 這種會破太輕啦啊 這種的怎麼可以交報啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4098.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4119.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
啊這張怎麼可以這樣放他回去啦你會不會有這種評論就你單純只看媒體因為你自己當檢察官嘛你也知道這個檢察官對這個被告或者是嫌疑人執行這個所謂的強制處分的時候你一定有理由的嘛然後要法官來這個同意嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4120.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4149.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
可是我們外界在外面看新聞啊 看媒體報導啊看過之後說 啊這個這樣這個我幫他照 這樣不通啊這個警察哥怎麼請他回去 怎麼可以這樣啊這法官 檢察官 欸我們很多人認為對司法沒有信心啊都是這樣看了之後 街頭巷尾大家評論了之後啊 這樣我們這司法這樣不行 像這次你扣押的啊怎麼不把你抓起來 還幫他出去弄垃圾 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4150.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4160.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
你以後當司法院院長 我把它切成兩塊一個是你現在還沒當司法院院長一個是以後你是一個司法院院長你的態度會是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4162.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4185.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我想我態度,因為我自己做過司法工作做了三十幾年,可能跟完全沒有接觸司法的一些朋友可能對案件的看法、觀點可能比較不一樣,我比較傾向不會立即做判斷,當然在同事之間幾乎沒有這樣子的討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4187.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4215.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
因為他們都是法律人他們很了解就是要就像剛如同剛委員講的對一個案子你除非你有親身常辦過了解這細節了解案件的來龍去脈不然外人即使沒有接觸的很難評論好那你接下來當司法院院長請你可不可以跟大家講一下醫療啦我們這司法的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4216.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4246.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
任何一個案子 我講任何一個案子你又不會去問這個法官 問這個個庭說欸 都案子社會關注捏 啊那些司法都認定不公捏啊一個案辦這麼多年 你們可不可以辦得更快捏你會不會 你帶個司法院院長齁 這是行政的 就是說總是會看一下大家各個法院現在審理的狀況嘛進度有些拖很久啊諸如此類 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4247.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4253.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
你會不會有這樣的驚喜啦或者是這樣的指導啦或者是這樣的提醒啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4254.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4280.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我想在個案上一定不會就是說我不會去找法官特別是懲判的法官跟他講說這個案子要快一點這個案子外面有很多民間有很多反應因為這是在法院體系這是一個很大的禁忌就算是院長或他自己的庭長大概都不會這樣講但是如果就一個整體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4281.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4310.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
司法行政政策那基本上我們會有相關的聽處那我們也許會做討論的時候我們可能會有一些比如說政策性的研討或政策性的討論那但是不會去跟各案人法官去做提示這樣子蠻重要的啦 這個一定要堅守住但是因為在你的報告裡頭你自己也提到嘛 這個人力不足啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4311.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4315.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
人力不足那所以呢你如果說現在性都性很慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4316.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4344.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
要審一年、要審兩年 立法委員有事情立法委員就都做了 跟召議員做館長 召議員做起庭他的案可能都還沒定現 這都有可能 各自各樣的可能都有你看這個整體全貌的時候 各地方法院 各高等法院跟你說我們就人不夠啊 我們一個案抽頭很多案啊 我們就沒辦法啊我們的速度就這麼慢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4345.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4365.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
你當司法院的院長 你會下什麼樣的指示我想就是如同我剛剛在口頭報告裡面提到的案件工作太重 它對案件的進行一定會有影響的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4368.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4393.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那特別是我們的行政訴訟制度它並不是採取所謂高度的集中審理這樣子的方式它有點像就是有一個日本教授說我們是採取是牙醫式的訴訟程序不是那種外科手術式的方式因為英美法比較像他們要集中審理趕快把這個案件審完那其他案件就會放著 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4394.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4414.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那你這個案件這個禮拜審一次下禮拜或者是下個月審一次那可能就比較平均但是問題就是可能會造成每一件案子都會拖比較久但是最重要的問題是我們現在的就案件的量來看我們的人力確實是不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4415.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4439.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那這個困難度很高啦就是我剛剛有提到說因為有先進建議說要增加他並不是說增加法官的人數而是增加助理跟書籍官的人數因為這兩個現在兩方都很欠缺這個權益證實立法院通過法庭的審理要直播啦這你應該也了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4441.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4465.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
因為你如果當司法院的院長這事情就到你頭上了是那有沒有跟同事同仁大家討論過說這如果用直播差不多一年要花多少司法院的行政單位是有回復的 聽起來金額很龐大因為因為你接下來當司法院院長這個搞不好搞下去的這個費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4467.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4477.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
可能會吃掉司法院一半以上的醫生或者是要增加大概一倍或者將近一倍這樣的一個預算你有什麼看法具體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4481.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4508.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
花費的數字因為我現在是被提名人我現在其實也不方便跟司法院接觸所以也這是一個新的業務因為最近才通過那我們在三個月以後我們會要開始實施那這段時間我們會做一些配套的規劃比如說報告預算包括其他的當然這已經通過啦照規矩就是你們要辦嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4511.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4522.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
你覺得這個事情是正面的還是說因為我們常常說什麼司法不公啦 黑箱啦什麼的全部都在衝直播啦 看你整天都在說什麼啦這樣子對 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4538.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4544.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
你現在也算檢測官,你檢測官的力量,我們先說檢測官的力量就是說直播出去,有了直播出去,他們問這樣,你就要穩良公正這樣,不然你告訴人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4553.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4566.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
欸 你上次我在徵訊你的時候 你明明就這樣講 筆錄都有你現在在法官前面 竟然這樣講欸 這句話我如果說得這麼難齁這直播出去 我可能說 啊 法 檢察官你態度好一點講話要這麼兇嗎 你在大聲什麼 這樣可是這有可能是法庭裡面的常態嘛我們今天在說要被那個被告激怒呢我們都說好啊 你都簽 你也已經在徵訊筆錄 你都簽到書 都在都簽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4580.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4600.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
跟法官討錢 反靠近啊 這樣有可能嘛齁或者是說法官看了就說 欸不是啊 被告我看到的卷證這個都有啊 而且檢察官徵詢你都有啊啊你現在怎麼在改欸欸 到時候在直播出去法官你在講什麼東西啊你講話可以態度好一點嗎你講話只會小聲一點嗎你這樣會嚇到我的我的當事人欸 你認為醫療這事情怎麼發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4610.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4624.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
事實上我現在沒辦法預測,但是這個法律已經通過,所以必須要進行,因為台灣是一個法治國家,但是在這種方面,政策改端其實是不公開的,政治改端是不能進步的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4631.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4654.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
現在可以進步的部分是審判 或者審問跟涉事審問的部分涉事審問的作用是不公開的 公開的部分是議件書辯論的部分所以我想這個部分處理起來比較不正常意識 可能麻煩但是一樣有很多人很擔憂 非常憂心 這才有很多問題的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4659.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4688.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
都很擔憂啦 怕民眾擔不擔憂而已連國民黨自己也擔憂啦他們為自己的案子 說不要啦 不要公開審判連公開審判都不要 還要直播所以這個部分可能未來啦 你如果做司法院的院長啊包括我們這裡的法官啊我想這個也不知道要怎麼做心理建設因為這個算是 以前法官高高在上嘛坐在上面像我們院長坐在上面我們這個董事長都坐在上面嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4689.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4717.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
以後法官問問題要像韓院長一樣講話溫文如也也不能夠生氣就是單純因為我在看憲法法庭的時候我看每一個大法官法庭都溫文如也問問題可是實質上法院的審理應該沒這麼溫柔有時候因為你遇到被告很惡劣的時候當下也會輸人生氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4719.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4740.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
所以這一塊可能接下來你當司法院的院長看大家討論一下怎麼樣讓我們的司法人員法官要審理的時候怎麼樣避免在這種直播的過程當中心理受創因為我知道很多法官檢察官下班後 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4741.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4763.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
今天一般的都一樣,捷運、騎腳踏車都有很多都是這樣因為他換下他的工作服,有時候就一件襯衫就要回家所以這一塊有可能在直播出去以後像最近他們的抄襪橋牆,一些法官、檢察官的橡皮劈出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4764.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4787.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
阿公用一些血跡恐嚇異位敵人對法官檢察官影響都很大所以接下來直播下去之後這一塊可能司法院要對這件事情看要怎麼樣的因應因為你接掌司法院院長之後這一題就是你的問題了謝謝委員提醒接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4788.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4810.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
你認為國內的政黨 大家正在動 正在競爭最近也有政黨去解散 去跟憲法法庭去解散主要是跟憲法法庭去解散你對這種解散政黨 你要看什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4812.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4838.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這案件我記得應該是在細數中的案件吧不知道是不是細數中的案件那如果是細數中的案件就是說他受理以後細數中的案件我確實比較不好在這裡就這個案子發表這樣你這樣回答就對了我很怕你再給我回答這個個案不可以回答因為你不知道你再回答你會說不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4840.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4867.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
說不定這問題大家都知道會被標題你說這個進行中的案子你沒有完整的資訊沒辦法回答但是憲法法庭解散政黨這個事情你總可以評論憲法法庭解散政黨不管這個政黨的理念是什麼很多人說你這個憲法法庭的大法官怎麼可以把人家的政黨給解散 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4869.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4893.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這個事情你的看法這個案件是憲法訴訟法規定的受理案件之一那至於到底要怎麼審理我想要看這個政黨他的作為他過去的一些主張還有沒有什麼實際的行動對於民主憲政或對國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4896.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4917.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
有危害那如果有這些情況有可能被宣告違憲解散那如果沒有這種情況那就不會被解散我想就會被駁回好最後再問一個課題就是關於這個通訊投票不在籍投票的題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4918.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4946.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那這些當然有可能被設定到部分的族群也許是部分的工作 部分的族群就是說它不是全面性的這個通訊投票啦 選舉啦通訊投票 不載集投票它可能會被設定因為某些因素所以它被設定某一些族群 某一些工作 某一些什麼什麼什麼這些人可以不載集投票 他們可以通訊投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4946.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4963.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那這個事情啊如果站在這一個你是一個大法官按照憲法的角度憲法就是我們每個人選舉罷免創制不決嘛那大家都要平等嘛對不對大家都要平等啊有一些人可以通訊投票不在一起投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4964.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4973.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
如果是說全面開放啦 反正我就想我大頭紅 我就要去綠島投票啦 我的票可以去綠島就對了我就是要去那裡投票 因為投票那天我要去綠島一投啦所以我就去那裡投票就好如果去特定 特定的設定了部分的身份 部分的族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4984.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5000.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
這樣在這個憲法上,你的認定,我們大家都一樣,可是有一些人因為他的新聞,所以他被設定,他可以進行這樣的一個跟別人不一樣的權利,或者主張,這件事情你有什麼看法? |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5002.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5030.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
呃理論上來講我想人民都有投票權但是並沒有指定在特定地區投票這樣的權利了那當然呃這個議題應該是中選會去去考量那有可能這種案子會到現在法庭來所以呢我現在我也比較不方便去提說這種這種主張到底是做法到底是違憲還是不違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5032.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5055.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那基本上法律有給一般人民這樣的就是在一定的地點投票的權利也已經有給他這個權利但是是不是一定要在特定地區投票這樣的權利這是不是憲法保障的權利我想這會有一點討論的空間好 這個就是持久再討論好 那這個謝謝你今天參加我們的審查會 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5059.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5062.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
也祝你這一個審查的最後投票結果能夠過關 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5096.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5101.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
好我們接下來請登記第三位徐議政委員詢問林黛化委員請準備謝謝院長我們請蔡備提名人麻煩請蔡備提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5123.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5150.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
薛仁豪貝提米人您好我想您時任檢察官將近30年的時間那不管在一審二審的檢察官擔任主任檢察官而且借調最高檢察署多年那另外也曾這個專長您的專長是刑事司法案件的實務也多次參與最高法院的一個大法庭的言辭辯論那也協助法務部進行憲法的訴訟所以您 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5151.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5173.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
熟悉司法體系的運作也擅長國際的司法交流但是因為你這次被提名的是大法官而且還要擔任司法院長所以您在3月21號的介紹提名會指出您未來的兩項工作重點一個是在推動法官跟檢察官與一段時間能夠互相交換接觸增加不同的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5174.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5200.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
第二點是在於面對五權憲法的失衡狀態涉及憲法層次的事和憲法法庭協助處理跟解決因為針對這個部分外界會質疑這會出現審檢一體的亂象所以連民進黨團的總召也都說檢察官當司法院長當然不妥而您自己也提到總統提名令您也覺得不可思議 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5201.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5229.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
所以這也是外界大家的疑慮所以想請教蔡貝提名人其實我們在這個大法官釋字第392號的解釋有明確的指出針對台灣審檢分立的這個制度事實上這就是台灣審檢分立的一個憲法基石而在國際上日本戰後所制定的檢察聽法也是為了保障審判的獨立而制度上必須與法院分立 互不干預 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5230.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5253.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
而在德國也根據德國基本法與刑事訴訟法的相關規定呢也就於這個審判權的刑事審判權的法院保持組織跟職能上的分離那這也是德國也是審檢分立的一個制度喔那因為蔡被庭人您沒有擔任過法官但是呢您在這個總統府庭庭的記者會提到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5254.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5268.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
在台灣法官比較靜態檢察官比較動態所以希望兩個工作未來能有一段時間互相的交換接觸增加視野但是看起來這已經違背市制第392號所揭示的憲法原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5269.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5283.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
而且台灣40年來都是審檢分立不僅是憲法的保障也是國際司法的標準那這樣的言行其實已經引發社會對您可能破壞司法獨立的一個高度的疑慮是不是可以請您說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5284.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5307.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
是的,我在被提名的記者會上確實有講過類似的話但是我當時的想法是針對未來因為我知道現在法官的工作狀態我剛剛講的算是比較靜態但是他的工作負荷很重 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5307.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5323.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
所以如果有機會他去做不同的工作事實上就他的工作或者是他的生活形態來講他事實上一個調整那以在台灣來講檢察官轉任法官或者是法官轉任檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5324.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5351.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這個是實施多年的事實就是說這個有輪調制度一直以來到目前為止都還有今年大概有11位檢察官會調到法官來那有法官調去當檢察官的比較少對外界的疑慮將對於審檢分立可能違反這樣的原則那你要怎麼來去讓這個司法獨立能夠真正的落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5353.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5375.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我這個說法沒有違法的疑慮因為台灣的審檢分立已經四十幾年四十幾年來從來沒有發生過因為檢察官調來當法官以後他就案件他就會判有罪或者是說會有特別法官去當檢察官以後他就不起訴從來沒有發生過這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5377.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5402.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我想這應該也沒有一個要擔任司法院院長的這個被提名人提出這樣的一個主張因為您不是只是這個交流而是要互相交換就剛剛您講的把檢審護掉這樣子一個狀況那當然外界就會質疑未來這個檢審分立的制度是不是會嚴重的被破壞所以其實大家都有這樣的疑慮那剛剛我想被提名人提到這樣的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5402.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5413.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
事實上我想並不足以說明也並不足以回應外界的一個質疑所以針對這個部分您是不是可以再重新考慮一下是不是還要推動這樣一個這個檢審護照讓司法獨立變成空談呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5417.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5440.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我想檢審護調這個事情我剛剛講過是事實現在也在實施中不會破壞司法獨立也不會破壞審檢分立那我如果我之前簡短講過了一些話那有造成誤會我要在這裡跟社會大眾道歉這其實是一個誤解 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5442.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5455.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那您剛已經道歉了我想針對這個事情大概也解除了大家的疑慮那另外就是我想請教您就是說您在拉法業界的軍購弊案當中的辦案經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5458.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5473.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
所以是強調因為追回不法所得得到的貢獻但是因為這個案子當然我想您追回不法所得的貢獻大家是可以肯定的但在拉法業案中前檢察總長盧仁發因為聽命陳水扁總統的 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5475.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5502.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
動搖國本也要辦到底的指示喔也對當時的北京檢察長黃世明施壓要求起訴而黃世明因為不從被調職您接手後立刻的這個羈押起訴了雷學明等五人喔而且還在辯論法庭說判無罪不符合一般的期待判有罪往傳輔在國外的錢才能匯回來這樣的話這樣是一個檢察官該講的話嗎這是不是已經有這個背離無罪推定的一個原則呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5504.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5531.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這有三個問題我一一回答第一個問題就是起訴雷學明等案子的這個案件事實上這個案子在起訴是90年7月5號在北檢起訴那時候其實我人在板橋地檢也就是說我是90年11月在從板橋地檢的主任檢察官調任台北地檢檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5531.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5554.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以這個案件起訴的時候我其實我人不在北檢事實上是一個誤會很大的誤會所以這個是第一個如果是一個誤會的話事實上這個媒體報導多年為什麼都沒有看到您在媒體或者在這個這個上面澄清說您並沒有這樣子的一個說法或狀況這個部分的話我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5555.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5579.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這個部分因為可能是一個無心之過啦因為就是有法學前輩這樣指正嘛因為他跟這個案子有一些關係所以他有一些想法在看法我覺得無可厚非但是為什麼您不出來說明真相呢如果您說的當時並不是你所以這個案子是跟你無關嗎不是跟我無關這個案子因為我後來調到北檢以後我就有參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5581.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5598.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
公訴 差異力挺就是我會參加公訴活動參加公訴活動最後在辯論的時候我到底有沒有講過剛剛委員所提過的這兩句話那我不復記憶因為這是二十幾年前的事情這是民國九十年但是從一個論告的檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5601.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5619.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
來講這兩句話我覺得並沒有什麼過分的地方這是一個檢察官的主張嘛因為這是辯論但是這已經違反了無罪推認而且當時你是針對證據不足的狀況之下起訴了這五位的軍官而後來也因為沒有辦法得到任何的證據顯示 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5620.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5644.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這五位軍官跟他的家人是不是真的有被收到相關的匯款或是不法的利益所以最後他們是不是無罪釋放無罪推定的問題我再跟委員解釋一下無罪推定確實是符合刑務訴訟法的規定就是你在被告在判決有罪確定之前都是推定為無罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5645.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5663.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那檢察官起訴並不表示他就有罪因為他是無罪推定嘛直到法官判決有罪這個時候他無罪推定才消失那如果他被判決無罪那不是符合無罪推定嗎因為他本來就是推定無罪啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5663.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5691.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那當年請問你在沒有證據的狀況之下起訴這五位軍官的理由是什麼是因為收到上級的指示必須要指這個還是沒有任何的證據當然不是那時候我去力挺的時候我們已經從瑞士拿回來將近一萬頁的銀行資料的證據換句話說我們已經確定這個案子確實法方付了五億兩千萬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5693.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5712.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
美金的佣金到瑞士的汪傳普以及他家人跟公司的帳戶事實上這個有付佣金那跟雷學明這五位有什麼關係當時你們邊有真正的證據那請問有什麼樣的證據嗎否則當時的秀明法官這個洪櫻花他也不會在這個判決書這個職次檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5714.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5732.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
表態搶攻他講這樣的話其實很重喔表態搶攻有什麼意思要跟誰搶攻就是由上官怎麼判斷所以後來這個案件事實上就是無罪那尤其是賴清德總統他在94年擔任立委的時候也公開指責雷選民等人收賄2000元美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5734.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5748.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
2000萬美元但雷學明等人最終獲判無罪確定證明當年的指控沒有事實根據而當委主責檢察官奉命起訴後來被證明清白的人那現在呢賴總統又這個起這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5751.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5770.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
提名你擔任司法院院長是不是形同對這些被害人事實上是再補一刀那尤其是針對這樣子他們當年歷經多年的纏訴然後長期的羈押甚至有人還在案件中含冤而死針對這五位受害者請問你們你有任何的道歉之意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5772.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5790.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我想這個案件案件的事情剛剛王委員講的就是事實上很難評斷因為有些案件法官判無罪檢察官會上訴上訴以後判有罪也有可能我現在只是針對這個案子針對這個案子你對這些無辜的這個案子我覺得我不方便在這邊表示我的個人的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5795.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5818.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
因為這是一個案件 他是已經判決確定那就是對於當年你們沒有任何證據的之下起訴然後最後獲判無罪您是不是覺得應該對這些被害人道歉呢我覺得這邊可能不方便這樣講因為一個案子其實非常非常的特別是這個案子是國際這樣子貪瀆的案件系前的案件其實非常非常的複雜我想這個司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5821.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5836.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
院的組織法第五條有規定大法官需要超出黨派可以獨立行使職權不受任何的干預所以如果你連回答這個問題的勇氣都沒有的話我們未來怎麼能夠相信你能夠超出黨派獨立行使職權呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5844.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5854.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我就是在請教這個案子您針對這五位最後無罪被釋放的這五位被害者您有沒有這個道歉之意嗎我遵守法院的判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5855.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5878.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我尊重法院的判決因為法院已經判決無罪 確定那我尊重法院的判決另外再請教您就是最近有發生幾起重大的社會案件但司法機關處理的模式也引發爭論讓人質疑就是保政府不保人民台中市豐原五口的命案理性嫌犯以詐欺恐嚇洗錢等罪嫌移送法辦檢方後來是15萬元交保 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5880.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5905.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
交保的理由是沒有串供的問題可是理性嫌犯主導王家去地下這個錢莊高利貸 借高利貸明明還有眾多嫌犯這樣會到案 怎麼會沒有串供他交保後還在網路發文幫自己叫屈這是五條人命耶 結果15萬交保而土城家暴的謝姓男子當街殺害妻子小姨子現在因為涉嫌違反這個家暴保護例如說他太太報警 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5906.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5929.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那前一天呢他五寶赤毀之後隔天就殺死了他的妻子跟小姨子而且手法非常凶殘這兩個案子呢我們可以看得出來鄭文燦的案件交保林秉賢的交保之後落跑通緝鍾文智交保之後落跑通緝許多人在這個網路反映喔重大的社會案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5930.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5952.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
跟親民進黨的人都可以交保那長官來說做一個梗圖的人必須要羈押禁建疑似偽造文書的人必須要羈押禁建我們知道羈押涉及人權這個字人身自由就有高度的強制性與痛苦性所以非必要不得輕率為之可是我們現在可以看到部分的檢察官在偵判案件的時候都會以 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5953.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5971.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
羈押作為取共的主要工具跟過去的這個虛打成招事實上完全沒有兩樣所以根據2023年我們3月民間團體公布的司法信心民意調查有高達84.7的民眾認為檢察官辦案受政治力的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5972.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5994.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
而您過去也因為在這個有政治氛圍下對證據不足的案件人對人起訴無辜的這個記錄而司法院院長是守護司法正義的最後一道防線如果未來總統或行政院長對您提出政治性的要求時候您是不是能夠承諾拒絕配合堅守司法獨立 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5995.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6012.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
當然我應該遵守就是維持司法堅持司法獨立但是剛剛委員我再強調一遍剛剛委員提到這個案子不是我起訴的所以不是被判無罪我沒有任何這個道歉的意思或是相類似的評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6013.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6027.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
至於委員所提到的這幾個案子我也跟委員一樣從報紙上得知一些相關的訊息我對這幾個案子了解非常非常有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6043.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6067.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
所以這也是大家非常憤怒的問題那另外呢還有就是要請教您的就是有關廢死的問題因為我看您在您回覆國民黨的問卷當中表示您不支持廢除死刑是嗎是的那您不支持廢除死刑那針對憲判次第八號的判決您的看法咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6070.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6094.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
第八號他是認為現在的死刑制度不違憲這一點我支持但是以現在這第八號等同是實質廢死了是相當困難是沒錯相當困難我想請教一下您擔任檢察官近三十年對於這個何義廷的法官必須一致決才能判死在您的實務經驗上有沒有過這樣子的案例何義廷的法官一致決 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6099.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6118.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
一致決我自己的經驗判死刑基本上都是一致決了並不是因為有這個判決因為目前的這個宪判第八號是何義廷就是三審的法官必須要一致決才能判決嗎依您近30年的這個檢察官的一個經歷 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6119.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6143.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
有沒有過這樣子的一個例子有沒有去統計說一審二審三審全部判死刑老師講的以我當檢察官我案子是判了案件我有曾經起訴案件判死刑過所以有還是沒有三審都一致決的案件三審我沒有去統計沒有統計還是不敢回答不是不敢回答那有還是沒有呢因為據我的了解要三審一致決幾乎是難如登天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6150.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6165.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我相信也沒有一個檢察官有遇過這樣的狀況所以這樣等同是實質廢死所以我很高興聽到您說您不支持廢除死刑可是對於憲判第八號幾乎是等同是實質廢死的這個部分未來如果您擔任司法院長你要怎麼來解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6167.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6187.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我想這個案子已經判決了那憲法法庭的判決他是對人民跟機關都有拘束力的那除非有憲法訴訟法第42條這些規定的要件他可以申請人民政府機關都可以申請重新來 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6188.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6205.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以在這邊如果沒有這種狀況我想您不支持廢除死刑跟80%的民意是一樣的那當然對於限判制第八號我們其實是非常的遺憾因為等同是實質廢死那未來呢我想尊重大多數的民意尊重八成的民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6206.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6229.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
應該是您將來作為司法院長應該要做的事情那另外還有就是針對賴清德總統的實講賴總統第三講談到的憲政他說五五憲草或中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加而實際上的狀況我相信您很清楚台灣有沒有派員參加沒有什麼我聽不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6230.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6242.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我說賴清德總統在第三講的時候有提到憲法的相關問題其中他提到五五憲草或者是中華民國憲法台灣並沒有派員參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6245.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6263.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
您知道這個台灣到底有沒有派員參加這點老實講我不了解那對政治人物的好我告訴你台灣曾經派出18名這個及審議會各縣市議員農運會公會代表等這個參加制憲會議所以這個都是有你可以看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6264.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6283.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
也有當時的一個名單所以賴清德總統就是公然說謊而且在誤導國人製造對立那被提名人您對賴清德總統的這種行為有何看法我現在證據告訴你了嗎有 有18個人參加那您對於賴清德總統這種造謠製造對立的行為有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6285.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6301.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我沒有辦法確認說賴總統是不是明明知道說台灣有派員參加而說沒有這一點我沒有辦法確認所以你的意思是賴總統他自己根本搞不清楚狀況就提出這樣的質疑是這樣的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6302.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6327.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
這個我沒有辦法評論要不然作為一個總統怎麼會在他要針對這個這個什麼團結時講的時候連這個都搞不清楚就公然的這樣子的造謠製造對立所以如果你連回答這樣的勇氣都沒有的話你要怎麼擔任司法院長這回答勇氣的問題這是我不知道他的狀況賴總統錯了就是錯了他就是造謠不是說他知不知道或是他有沒有在事前了解我覺得這個應該都要非常非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6335.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6341.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
好 謝謝謝謝徐宇辰委員的詢問謝謝蔡備提名人的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6361.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6373.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好 謝謝我們接下來登記第四位的林黛化委員詢問之後我們將會休息十分鐘然後之後再請王育敏委員詢問現在我們請林黛化委員請詢問好 有請院長提名人麻煩再請蔡佩提名人請 郭敏 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6393.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6393.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
一位好 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6394.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6423.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
本席想針對兩個議題來跟我們院長提名的來做個討論第一個是少年車手成為詐騙集團的主流第二個是法官過勞的問題我們來看這個幾個數據跟報導在2023年的時候已經有這樣的一個報導少年車手世代的誕生詐欺集團裡一句句殘破屍體堆疊的代價詐騙集團是進得去出不來為的就是詐騙集團的永續經營這樣的狀況有沒有得到緩解沒有在 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6424.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6447.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
今年6月的時候的報導少年色詐五年新高六成當車手跟車手頭這個名詞從哪裡來2017年在台灣自然史上相當特殊的一年一種新型的大宗青少年色法的模式竟遭到非正式的命名根據警政署的統計在2017年色詐的集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6448.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6473.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這個招捕的青少年首度飆破萬人而且已經超越各種青少年犯罪形態因此被管稱為少年車手世代的誕生這正是台灣治安的一大隱憂那司法院的統計全國已進入到法院審理的青少年社長的人數除了2017年首度超過一萬人回顧前三年2019到2022年 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6476.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6490.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
這樣每年的涉案人數也在平均9000人以上這樣的青少年好我們再來看這樣的一個詐欺的金流流程那眾所皆知最末端現場取款的都是青少年 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6491.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6509.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
居多的車手好最容易逮捕也風險最大因為機房跟地下會隊都在國外警方是難以查緝未成年擔任車手的趨勢是逐年飆升這也是未來司法院長您應該要拿出更好的策略跟作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6510.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6533.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們來看前端警政署的打詐遺產表我就追溯今天是7月9號在7月7號禮拜一的時候當天有481件的詐騙受領財產損失當天3億4千萬我就以這個數據逐一年擴大一年的推估481件一天365天就有17萬5千多件這是報案紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6538.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6560.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
因天的損失3億4千萬那一年乍一年來就有1241億這是本期保守枯竹實質的金額是這個的雙倍以上這對我國國人跟每個家庭都是晴天霹靂而且是難以堪受的打擊好警方這麼的努力那我們來看法院的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6562.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6577.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這個表是司法院司法業務年報當中取得的以地方法院少年刑事第一審的訴訟案件終結的案子你看三年半前有111年15件112年16件這都終結了113年16件 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6585.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6603.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
今年未過半一到五月三屆這表示什麼意思呢也就是說每年上萬名的色詐行為的青少年真的到了司法院不管是少年法庭或者是地方法院真正被判刑的比例是相當低百分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6604.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6609.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
好我們再來提供前端的警察人員是多麼的認真這是三年半前他們捕捉到車手 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6626.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6634.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個少年擔任車手的部分111年685人112年雙倍了1279年113年再雙倍2354年4人再到今年還未過半1到5月已經1192人前5個月已經達到112年前年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6649.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6665.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
總年度逮捕的車手的人數的這個數據呈現什麼了詐騙集團非常樂意讓青少年當車手來規避這個責任金三祖在前端認真的查緝實時進入到司法院審判的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6666.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6675.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
青少年的案件卻非常偏少不管是在少年法庭或者是地方法院我這邊要講明的是我不是說要把這些青少年抓起來關 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6682.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6701.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
而是要青少年進入到法院的時候你願意給他武器你的院方要給下面的警察跟檢調單位武器讓他去共出車手的上方的幕後集團是誰但是對於青少年就應該依照青少年的相關的保護原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6702.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6718.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
給予符合他的身心專快的矯正而不是要判重刑這個本席要強調但是你要給他能夠法院當中要給檢察官要給警察這樣的一個力量去供出讓這個青少年去供出上面的首腦才是正版 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6719.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6742.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
好 那司法院你如何改善呢司法院還要繼續放縱少年車手成為詐騙集團的人才資料庫嗎好 在這邊我們這個少年事件的處理法本席想要問的 您認為有沒有要修法的必要本席知道少年事件處理法的主管機方是法務不擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6743.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6763.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
真的在做疑審的單位決定要不要疑審要不要繼續偵查的單位是法院所以本席要問如果少年法院過度採取少年保護主義原則讓詐騙集團的首腦大量吸收未成年者成為詐騙流程中最關鍵的前方 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6763.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6788.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
封部隊這個就是顯化好我們來看保護主義原則本席是非常認同的但是法律是基於少年親自會成熟避免對少年造成過度的壓力或侵害這是我們應該要去執行的但是如果法院無限上綱少年保護主義原則也使得警方在偵查當中無法迅速追查幕後組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6789.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6807.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
本期要講的是這個但是青少年你應該依照青少年不是要重判而是要好好的給予矯正符合他身心狀況的要給予矯正這才是正辦我再次的第二次的強調好那現況是案件移送少年法庭之後少年法庭具有先議權 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6808.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6836.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
所以檢察官既不能介入警方的偵查權也受限無法繼續偵辦就讓詐騙集團爐爐無人之地搜刮台灣人民的財產幫派及犯罪集團利用這些程序的限制吸收了少年從事犯罪警方難以追緝幕後組織只能查獲少年車手等末端人員溯源效果大打折扣院長提名人你怎麼看呢如果你未來擔任院長如何來解決這樣的問題呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6838.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6858.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
呃委員剛剛對少年犯涉入詐欺集團的詐騙案件呃只成了非常非常的清楚可能比我還了解那成少共犯這個問題確實是一個很大的問題就是剛如委員講就是說事實上是少年人因為少年犯他不是自己犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6858.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6877.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
他是跟成年人一起犯罪你告訴我你上任之後你馬上怎麼做這已經是國安議題了也是總統跟國人就算總統沒給他升級到國安議題也是我們全台人民現在最痛苦的一件事情是一點都沒錯那你怎麼做呢你只要告訴我你上任之後你的方法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6878.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6905.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我想這個問題可能會涉及到修法啦但是現在的問題是你涉案的少年你送到少年法院以後那有可能檢察官因為他在偵辦成年犯的案子那這中間有共犯關係那可能要戒掉就是說要把這個少年就是來詢問就是對少年犯也能夠詢問但是現在的問題是檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6906.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6922.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
因為法律限制的關係少年事件處理法的關係所以可能沒有辦法達到目的您上任之後的一個月內召集所有您所有相關的主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6922.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6947.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
跟全國相關的這個法官在你的下面所屬的相關的人跟這個案子有關的相關的主管來討論有沒有修法的必要好嗎一個月內可以嗎與其你在我這邊跟我講說你的看法我覺得你已經是院長你沒有辦法去你當然院長當中你如何讓你的法官去認同這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6948.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6970.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這才是你讓你的少年法庭的法官能夠認同這件事情你做一個司法院院長怎麼做啊第一個你的態度認不認爲你擔任司法院長這個是重中之重少年車手成爲詐騙集團的千鋒部隊搜刮我台灣人民的財產這件事情你要你的態度是什麼第二個你的做法是什麼請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6971.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6993.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
這確實是重要問題但是我跟委員報告我現在還沒有上任老師講對司法院的一些業務這個主要是少年家事廳這邊的業務其實我不那麼熟但是我在高檢在任職的時候我曾經聽過同事也跟檢察長討論過這個問題至少你的態度很明確你認為應該責無旁貸的作為優先的處理的業務我想是優先要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7000.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7028.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好 另外一個議題這個司法改革的核心是法官如何讓優秀的人才願意擔任法官司法體系依靠的是法官依法獨立審判但是法官過勞的問題如何改善 請具體說明法官過勞的問題其實最主要的案件來源是剛剛委員所提到的詐欺案件因為詐欺案件這幾年突然增加那詐欺案件增加這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7029.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7043.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
司法院其實要減少詐欺案件這一點事實上他有他的困難因為他沒有辦法去直接就是我剛剛的提到在口頭報告的時候提到就是說你怎麼減少入口案件量案件是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7044.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7071.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
就是檢察官起訴然後送到法院這邊來所以在這個階段我沒有辦法去減少他的案件量就是已經進來我沒有辦法去減少案件量但是有一個問題就是說我也第一個在討論檢討這個問題的時候我也第一項提到就是說從案件的負擔這麼重法官的工作量這麼重當然就是因為人力不夠嘛這才很簡單但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7072.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7093.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我們有一個很大的困難就是說我們的總元額法他的規定是非常的嚴格就是因為他不只是處理法官人數的問題他要處理所有公務人員的問題所以他的限制是很大的就是說他限制很高我們盡量去爭取那就法官的人數來講的話那我們會盡力 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7097.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7116.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
希望能夠增援因為在目前的案件量真的是這不是人過人沒辦法所以你認為增加援爾這是你認為要解套的一個良心其中一個辦法包括您在這個詐騙案件量的如何的來減少這件事情你也會來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7117.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7138.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
是嗎這是兩個您的 案件量減少這個東西我們沒有辦法承諾因為這個社員確實不是社員做得到的三天案件量的減少要仰賴偵查機關要仰賴行政部門來幫忙所以增加員額是你認為其中一個辦法還有呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7141.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7164.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那就是我們現在的案件量的負擔當然就是因為程序他比較冗長他程序比較冗長那另外一個就是他的法官的工作的負擔他有兩個方面第一個他很很長的時間發停花在月卷開庭這樣子的那另外一個就是製作書類那現在的書類現在的判決書動輒上百頁動輒幾十頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7172.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7183.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
製作的負擔很重那我們會想辦法來減輕他的文書製作的負擔我想這是還蠻重要的這是第二個方案那還有呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7185.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7203.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
剛剛也講到程序的問題看是能夠再精簡另外一個就是看有沒有辦法再補充其他的人力比如說退休的人員我們有沒有辦法以什麼樣的方式請他們可以回來幫忙不管是哪一種忙我們都很歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7204.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7220.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那再來就是輔助人力的問題我想法官的人力跟輔助人力的問題現在有一個很大的問題就是比如說書記官現在書記官離朝離世朝非常的多非常可怕就是他現在沒有人願意當書記官為什麼沒有人當書記官因為待遇很少 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7221.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7241.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
然後工作量很多所以這個問題我們也要想辦法看怎麼解決一個書記官的待遇甚至可能比法官助理還要少他是一個有職務保障的一個書記官但是他的待遇其實是就工作量來講是算是相當的微薄那這一點我覺得我們應該來正視這個問題看跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7247.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7272.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
還有就這事項嗎第一個增加法官的援額第二個我們的這個文書的業務量如何的減少第三個整個作業的流程整個檢視整個的這個法官審理的流程如何有簡化的可能性第四個就是對輔助人力例如書記官他的薪資所得的提高就這事項您認為這個是能夠解決法官過勞的現況嗎還有呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7275.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7303.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
你們努力了但是其他我想我剛講過我就是我也還沒有上任其實對世華運營的業務也不是非常非常的了解但是我們世華運營有很多各事處有很多人才那有很多專業人員他們對這些問題我想他會比我更深入所以我必須要到時候還要請教以及跟他們討論來怎麼樣來解決問題有沒有其他的辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7304.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7321.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
大把關過牢也納入如果能夠擔任院長的話也擔任您重要的就是首先優先要處理的這個業務嗎是的所以本席提到這兩項如果您未來擔任司法院長第一個處理這個詐騙車手詐騙的問題那第二個跟少年犯有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7326.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7353.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
對 當然少年犯就青少年擔任車手的一個在這個司法院的體制內當中如何來來減少這樣的如何面對這樣的一個青少年來擔任這個這個詐騙集團的前鋒部隊的議題第二個法官過勞你也是願意擔任願意最優先的來做處理你的業務的首要十大您上任之後的十大業務推動的其中兩項是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7355.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7370.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
其中兩項 可以講就好好 謝謝理事長謝謝林黛華委員的詢問謝謝蔡備提名人的說明 謝謝好 報告全員委員會我們現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7974.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7994.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
報告全院委員會 我們現在繼續開會 進行委員詢問接下來我們請王育敏委員詢問 林淑芬委員請準備謝謝主席 我們是不是有請蔡提名人麻煩再請蔡提名人委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
8001.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
8016.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
蔡提名人你好我上午其實有一直在聽你回答委員的一些你的回應那剛剛我聽了你回答林黛樺委員坦白講幫你捏了一把冷汗 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8017.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8035.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
你說你對司法院的業務不是很了解今天你是被提名要擔任司法院院長的人你在巡打的時候說你對司法院的業務不是很了解我想問的是你真的準備好了嗎對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8039.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8060.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
你真的準備好要當司法院院長了嗎你對司法院的業務不了解那你怎麼可以擔任司法院院長呢為什麼賴總統會提名你呢是不是有更多比你更熟悉司法院業務的人更專業的人更適合這個職務呢我想一定有人比我更熟悉司法院的業務那所以你是最適合的人選嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8066.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8087.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我自己不確定我是不是最適合人選但是我覺得我應該是適當的人選之一因為我想擔任一個重要的職務除了能力跟經驗以外我覺得人品很重要那我自己的評估我自己對自我的評價我覺得是人品是好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8088.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8117 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
人品是不是你人品指的是哪一個部分你其他的人跟副主任我想人品就是最重要的特點是沒有私心沒有為自己的私利去著想就是一個職務我其實我在在總統召見的時候我自己不知道我會被提名董事長院院長所以到現在還不知道是誰推薦你 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8118.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8121.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
其實我不知道我一直很好奇這個過程是政部長他徵詢我的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8129.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8148.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
但是我跟他講說我年紀不小所以其實我一開始我是玩具的但是後來有朋友跟我說有這個機會你就做做看吧但是我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8151.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8168.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
如果能夠多為台灣做一點事情那我覺得如果有這個機會那我願意所以我就接受這個推薦事實上我是自我推薦因為在這個程序上是自我推薦自我推薦這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8169.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8189.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
所以這我推薦我們不要寫一些資料比如說自傳等等等等那就是我回顧一下我過去的經歷我說因為我只當過檢察官嘛那其他之前其實包括現任的大法官也有檢察官出身的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8190.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8193.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我們就來解釋一下你擔任檢察官的時候的一些表現 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8213.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8228.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
剛剛大家特別提到了有關拉法葉案事實上這個陳長文律師就直指你是核心也是主辦但是剛剛你在回答委員的詢問的時候又說起訴不是你 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8229.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8256.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那我就要具體問你因為當時大家都知道盧恩發檢察總長他受到了上級的命令當時陳水扁總統下令然後他就是施壓要起訴當時他是交代黃世民但是黃世民不從才是你來接手那請問你接手了之後你做了什麼事因為你剛剛迴避說你沒有起訴雷學明等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8257.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8267.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
請問那你接手之後你有沒有就是羈押他們我在我剛剛講過就是說這個案子是90年7月起訴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8269.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8294.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
90年7月我事實上是不在北檢我問你就是吳仁芳要求黃世明接手那黃世明不從是你接手的你接手之後做了什麼我當時是一個基層的檢察官黃檢察長他時候應該是北檢的檢察長吧我不太確定但是事實上是有其他的學長他們處理這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8295.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8312.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那我在90年11月從板橋地檢現在的新北地檢調到台北地檢因為你接手的時候當時裁定這個羈押的時候當時是在你手上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8314.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8324.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
應該不是應該不是你很多回答都是有點模糊我記憶中應該不是那為什麼陳朝文律師他只指你就是主要的關鍵人 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8326.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8350.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
主要的關鍵我也不曉得為什麼他說主要的關鍵就是因為我被指示他如總長那吃鴨黃甲長然後就是叫我去起訴嘛他原來的意思是這樣但是這完全不是事實那我可以請教你雷學敏相關人的案件你當中扮演什麼樣的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8351.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8354.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我扮演的角色我是參加公訴 論告 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8363.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8383.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
所以公訴你是主要的公訴的檢察官對不對公訴其中之一啦 因為起訴的人所以你現在要告訴大家是你不是主責跟你沒有關係不是跟我沒有關係 我不能這樣講因為我參加參與這個公訴就不能跟我講沒有關係事實上是跟我 就是這個案子我是有參與的 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8385.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8411.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
但是這個案件我自己起訴的案件不是這個案子我自己起訴的案件是後來的案子那這個案子最後是被判無罪你對於你自己擔任公訴的檢察官現在看到這個案子被判無罪你當時你有沒有檢討自己在當中所扮演的角色你到底是奉承上命在扮這個角色還是你有積極去追求一些客觀的事實因為現在大家都看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8412.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8433.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
判例就是當時違反了無罪推定的原則在沒有積極的人證物證情況底下依然要去起訴雷學明等人然後他們也獲得了冤獄的賠償對這個案子你有什麼看法是這點我說明一下就是我剛剛有稍微提一下就是無罪推定是訴訟法的規定每一位被告 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8433.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8441.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
他就是被告被提出告訴也好告發也好他成為被告他事實上必須要受到無罪推定的保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8443.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8467.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那檢察官偵查之後如果認為證據足夠證明他有足夠的犯罪嫌疑有足夠的 suspicion他就要起訴這是一個必須我在問你雷學明的案件你覺得他的人證物證是不是足夠因為法院的判決覺得不足夠我講就是說起訴的決定是其他的檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8468.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8483.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我起訴之後要進行公訴因為你也參與這個案子嘛所以我現在是要問你說你現在回過頭來看當時是不是人證物證的確是不充分法院的裁定是有道理的我沒有辦法這樣很肯定這樣講但是我們剛剛講就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8487.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8503.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
所以你當時就是領成長官的意旨然後被交辦不是 完全不是不是嗎不是檢察官起訴的標準跟法官判決有罪的標準是不一樣的也就是說檢察官認為如果說那還是要依照證據委員者吧當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8504.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8533.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
所以我在問你那個案子人證物證到底充不充分證明的標準我們可以講是不一樣的就是說我在當檢察官的時候我認為有相當的犯罪的嫌疑夠了我認為可以起訴所以我現在是說你現在回頭過來看這個案子的時候你怎麼評價嗎當法院做出跟你當時的看法不一樣的時候你怎麼評價自己當時這麼積極的對一個無罪的判決的案件我現在不適合發表任何評論了 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8534.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8549.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這個案子已經過去了現在目前還有一部分的案件犯罪所得的追索現在還在進行在歐洲還有一些地方在其他在加勒比亞當時起訴的決定不是我做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8556.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8582.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
起訴的決定不是我做的所以呢蔡平民人我覺得你在回答上面遇到對你有利的你會承認是自己遇到對你不利的你就說不是你我覺得這樣一個態度好像就是不是在一件事情上這樣被檢視起來就會覺得你會有意另外一個我要問你的是你當時擔任法務部國兩司司長的時候呢有發生一件陳同佳 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8583.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8609.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
殺害女友的很重大的命案當時台灣人民也非常的憤怒覺得陳同佳應該要受台灣的刑事處罰但是這件事情陳同佳他在香港他是另外一個案子他服役完出獄之後他要來台灣自首當時誰擋了陳同佳的投案之路你當時司法務部國兩司的司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8610.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8633.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
在這件事情上你的態度跟角色又是什麼我基本的看法是被告如果要主動來投案那我覺得是不需要透過司法互助的途徑的也就是說他要來投案基本上他是可以來那當時是誰阻擋了這個案子因為他是一個殺人案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8634.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8655.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
他是一個殺人案件他本身因為他已經有殺人的之前的事實他事實上有些安全的疑慮那當時呢要去當時的政府包括法務部包括警政署他們認為說如果陳同佳如果是陳同佳要來投案 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8658.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8681.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
應該有人去陪同就是說戒護因為他要坐飛機來在飛機上事實上有可能有安全的餘力當時港方有人陪同啊所以呢他們就派人去香港那有跟香港當局溝通說能不能把陳同佳送到飛機上比如說送到登機門 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8683.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8689.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
由台灣的檢察人員去借物我只是要問你你當時是國兩司的司長你又擔任過檢察官照道理來講你對一個殺人犯你應該是會主張要緊急來偵辦當時的立場是這樣子你有沒有去說服你的長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8703.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8717.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我盡量 我有盡力說服啦你當時是這樣的立場是不是是 是這樣的立場所以最後你沒有說服你的長官最後還是這件個案到現在還是完全沒有辦法讓陳同佳逍遙法外不是那麼順暢 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8721.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8748.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這個是我們看到的情況另外一個呢你在被提名的記者會上面這個蕭副總統呢他指示提名蔡秋名是為了提升國安案件的專業能量確保國家安全所以他指示然後呢你就很快的回應你說提升國安案件專業能量是任內的首要任務但是在今天你的書面報告這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8750.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8770.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
案件專業能量沒有在你的重點任務裡面你直接把它標示出來我要問的是你當時是因為記者會去附和蕭副總統的話還是你是真心的認為你來擔任司法院的院長你是要完成提升國安案件的專業能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8773.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8800.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
其實我現在有點忘記我沒有講說提案提升國安的媒體是怎麼登我我不太確定你可以看一下我的PPT就是是我的上任的首要業務這點我不確定這點我沒有這樣講這點我不確定但是我想國安問題在台灣現在目前我覺得相當的是一個嚴重的問題那很多國民都引以為憂了作為一個國民我覺得國安問題是重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8801.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8822.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那是不是你的首要任務我現在在問你一遍你可以澄清國安問題基本上不是大法官的工作的內容因為他是要做憲法法庭的審判但是如果在司法院長的職務裡面他事實上會跟這個問題有點關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8823.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8847.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
就是因為在目前還有國安專題就是你上任之後提升國安案件專業能量是不是你的首要任務我不能講說這是我的首要任務我想還有更直接的一個社團院長要做的事情所以你當時在記者會是為了呼應蕭副總統所以就講出這樣的話沒有這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8848.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8873.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
沒有這個意思但你講出了這樣的話我到底有沒有講這個話我們再確認一下我不算確定有或者是沒有但是我這個應該不是我的意思不是你的意思你講的但是不是你的意思好這個那目前為止發現蔡提名有一個問題就是說你講過的話呢你都會說好像不是你的意思包括其實你 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8873.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8889.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
也講過一段話在台灣法官比較靜態檢察官比較動態因此未來如果有機會讓兩個工作有一段時間互相交換接觸增加視野與經歷可能會有益法官的身心健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8891.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8913.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這段話是不是你講的這段話是我講的但是我講這段話是我參考歐洲的一些實務就是特別是德國因為他們法官跟檢察官之間的交流非常的頻繁但是我並沒有聽德國的同事講說因為檢察官跟法官之間的交流讓檢審 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8916.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8943.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
審檢不分或者是說那我就問你你講這段話未來你擔任司法院院長你是不是要去推動這項制度讓這一個檢察官跟法官兩個工作可以有一段時間互相來交換你要不要推動這個要看實際的需要啦就是這種事情就是我剛剛提到的就是您一剛開始提到我就說我對司法院的業務比較不了解其中的一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8944.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8960.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我想我有這樣子的這個當然是一個當時的一個想法提名人我提醒你你在回答徐宇峥委員的時候你的態度是說你思慮不周所以你道歉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8960.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8988.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那你在回答我的時候看起來態度又不一樣我覺得這個前後一致性我們對於一個司法院院長的信任度也是很重要因為這樣子看不出你基本的原則跟立場是什麼接下來我要問的是我們現行的羈押制度有沒有被濫用的問題押人取共你覺得這個在現行的檢察官的作為上面如果有人押人取共你贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8990.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9019.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
如果真正是押人提供我當然不贊成真的不贊成嗎但是現行我們看到目前有一些檢察官在做法上面他在證據不充分的情況底下他就使用羈押的手段或者是一再延押的手段想要達成他的調查的目的請問這個我們相關的四字號的解釋跟行送法的相關的規定你認為這樣的一個做法有沒有違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9020.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9040.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
這個有沒有違法要看個案就是押忍這件事情我想肯定是很多羈押的案件但是講到為什麼會羈押我想他有法定的理由那我如果不去了解這些事實的狀況那我就隨便做評論我覺得事實不負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9041.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9069.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
好 這一個部分也是現在讓民眾覺得害怕的問題因為如果是這種押忍取共事實上已經是侵害人權了那未來你要擔任是司法院的院長我想保障人權是司法院非常重要的一個責任跟角色這個部分我們現在看到的是現行的法院有很多當檢察官提出羈押的時候法院的審理好像都是照單全收 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9070.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9089.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
並沒有在審理上面真正的好好認真的再去做一些適度的研判這個如果將來沒有機會擔任司法院院長這個部分應該是要好好檢討一下另外一個就是有關於這個行政跟司法之間的立法之間的衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9090.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9110.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
你曾經說過中央機關有法律及政治面挑戰我認為適合由司法院來解決所以代表未來你如果擔任司法院院長的時候你會更大幅的去受理有關於行政跟立法之間的爭議是這樣子嗎你有講過這段話 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9112.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9133.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我想這個是憲法法庭的任務之一就是說如果有機關之間的職權的爭議的話他們是可以提申請到由憲法法庭來解決那這個是一個被動的受理因為說法官的立場就是說他是不告不理 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9133.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9142.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以他不能是直接說來你們的正義我來解決不會有這樣的事情就是說他如果有這樣的案件那麼就依法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9144.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9171.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我們可以看到過去憲法法庭事實上在針對一些不受理的高度爭議的申請案這個也是很常見的包括2016年監察院的不當黨產條例是不受理的2018年立法院的前瞻的違憲疑慮也不受理2022年林黛嬅提的這個也不受理2024年賴香林勞保基金違憲疑慮也是不受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9172.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9201.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
但是如果未來的這個憲法法庭要受理的是屬於行政跟立法之間的衝突的話那等於是把憲法法庭自己也捲入了一些政治的紛爭當中那我們希望台灣的司法其實是真正可以是超然獨立的那在受理跟不受理的這些標準我覺得未來如果你有機會擔任司法院院長這個真的是要好好思考清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9201.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9212.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
絕對不是因為是當權好 謝謝王玉敏委員的詢問也謝謝蔡備提名人的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9230.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9233.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好謝謝接下來我們請林淑芬委員請詢問好謝謝院長是不是請蔡提名人麻煩蔡提名人林委員好被提名的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9261.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9268.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
這樣子說好了你知道這個橋頭地院有一個法官叫石育恩這一個個案你有印象嗎那這樣講好了法官幫詐騙集團藏錢這個個案你有印象嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9279.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9293.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我好像在媒體上有看到好像你是被提名人了然後你對這樣的個案有什麼樣的看法聽起來你好像對細節並不是很清楚這樣子說好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9295.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9320.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
他被地檢署偵辦律師鄭宏威擔任律師擔任詐騙集團的軍師的時候他發現有16個律師串聯在一起成為一個群組幫詐騙集團到各地檢署還有到各法院去替詐騙集團監控招待的車手更離譜的是橋樓地院的法官石育恩還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9320.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9339.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
桃園地檢署的檢察官你們以前的這個地檢署的系統吳雅芝也捲入而且詐騙集團還把錢藏在法院石玉恩這個法官還揪其他的法官一起買房子要去洗錢揪房 揪團買房洗錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9344.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9372.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
然後呢在這個過程被案發東窗事發了以後呢石玉恩還開著價值350萬的保時捷跑車趕快跑到地方法院把錢搬走然後被逮然後看守所裡面我現在問你你知道看守所裡面羈押的過去以前一半以上都是酒駕現在一半以上都是什麼你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9373.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9379.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
你知道嗎 看收索你檢查系統 你不知道嗎你看收索裡面關的一半以上都是詐騙集團的車手 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9385.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9413.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
是 你現在才 你有接地氣嗎我現在很擔心耶我現在要跟你講這件事情是因為詐騙問題很嚴重啊然後呢 跟他們關在一起的人出來描述給我的朋友聽的他說 這些年輕的車手問他們出去以後會不會想再從事這個詐騙的工作他們說 會為什麼會 你知道嗎啊 被提名人你知道嗎 猜猜看 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9416.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9441.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
因為判了不重 因為是判了太輕判了太輕不是問題 他們都認罪在詐騙集團被抓到 這些車手都認罪關了以後還要出來當詐騙的原因是因為外面領三萬五萬的薪水 太少了在外面隨便當車手 吃香喝辣 收入豐沃 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9443.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9465.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我現在要說的不是要說這位車手喔我現在要說的是 把瓜給檢測瓜有錢能使鬼推磨這個問題啦 因為你是被提名人而且檢查系統更嚴重 你有什麼看法你對制度面的防弊 你有什麼看法你敢不敢說我們聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9469.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9484.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這是一個困難的問題第一個我對案件的細節其實不瞭解我沒有在說案件我現在在說對於檢察官法官無法抗拒誘惑因為檢察官心碎一個月六千一個月應該有十萬塊以上十萬塊以上法官一個月心碎六千 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9494.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9496.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我現在要跟你說的意思是詐騙集團青菜和椰子都比這個還多 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9502.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9527.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
大家在外面吃香喝辣檢察官法官啦 抗拒誘惑難很多 但是絕大多數還是正派的我現在問你是 你要來做議定 被提名了你也 總統跟你說 我跟你交提名你好不好 你也說好 我勇於認識 我不會啊 我要問你啊 這要安裝改革 要安裝防備我是要問你這個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9532.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9554.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
現在你知道對人民來說當警察、檢察官、法官抓鬼的人被鬼抓了你叫人民情何以堪啊你讓我們這些人民要叫誰來保護啊所以你的司法最後一道防線也瓦解了你覺得這個事情有多嚴重你有想過嗎如同剛剛委員提過的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9561.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9579.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
大部分的法官跟檢察官其實我現在要問你怎麼管理房幣啦不要去說那大部分那不能讓老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥啊那就要靠司法行政體系啊那我現在就是正在問你司法行政體系你要怎麼管理和房幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9581.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9597.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
法官法在100年制定現在74條法官的職務評定只有良好跟不良好 兩種你知道法官法施行以前它的考積有三等 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9598.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9616.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
法官法施行以後 甲等乙等的都變成良好 丙等的才叫做不良好你知道現在的法官法之下你有多少法官被評定為不良好的比例有多高你知道嗎我只知道我相當低 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9622.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9638.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
第一道不成樣子啦 大家法官喔沒有棒子啦司法改革我們的法官法制定以後現在司法形象變得雪上加霜 惡名昭彰 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9639.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9657.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
現在不是司法獨立審判 讓這一種塑形不良 違法亂作的法官變成他們的天堂然後破壞司法形象 連累政派的法官然後才有政客表演的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9659.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9675.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
政客表演前幾天的立法院在同櫃法庭直播事實上是一個一二審沒有直播原則都不直播但是因為太多人民受到法官權力上的侵害所以人民才會認為說要公開透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9678.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9693.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
都是因為整個司法改革的過程司法行政體系獨執司法的行政體系不彰化棒子也沒有有職務監督的體制也不行使 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9694.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9715.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
所以將敗壞司法形象才會讓政客到立法院來表演一個原則都不會直播的假直播只有圖利政治人物貪賭案件一定要直播的這一種假直播政治人物才有的司法特權的假直播 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9716.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9738.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
只有這一種現在人民為什麼會這種高度期待誤以為立法院是真直播因為 都是因為司法行政體系司法的職務監督公這個司校不好不好這樣你知道嗎你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9740.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9761.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我想司法院有一個機構我想很清楚是懲戒法院懲戒法院在司法裡面你說懲戒法院懲戒的對象是所有的公務人員我現在說的是你自己司法行政人員的體系你要怎麼改不要跟我說懲戒法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9763.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9772.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
您司法院內部的把關機制是哪個委員會我們裡面有自立委員會還有審議委員會人審會啦 人審會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9779.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9799.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以違反這個法官法三十條的才送外部的評鑑委員會法官評鑑委員會啊你如果大家都情節不重大情節重大你也跟他說情節不重大然後要送評鑑委員會都送人審會 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9801.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9814.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
人審會都口頭告誡 書面告誡有好嗎 敢不有好 沒好啦連送法官評鑑的委員會的評鑑案件也輕輕放下 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9819.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9833.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
最高行政法院吳東都以前在112年10月25就任的時候他表示法院院長事後看法官的裁判書事後判決之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9835.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9859.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
沒有介入司法喔現在一直在看法官的裁判書不僅是權限更是院長的責任義務所以他說任內的工作重點之一就是要落實事後沿越法官裁判書的工作為什麼他要沿越法官的裁判書為什麼我想還是有一定監督的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9865.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9866.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
他幹什麼 他要幹什麼你是不是認同你認不認同現在再來 你知道庭長 庭長 審判長他們的分案量是減少的 你知道嗎他們為什麼要減少他們的分案量要叫他們做什麼 你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9888.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9900.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我想是主要是協助審查法官所做的應該是裁判的書類我不會說啦 是要讓他們去做職務監督啦職務監督 這個是法律有據的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9908.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9936.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
法官法第19條規定法官與其獨立審判不受影響的限度內受職務監督職務監督包括制止法官違法行使職權糾正法官不當言行及督促法官依法迅速執行職務第20條規定各級法院院長當法官發生不當言行或違私行使職權各級法院院長應善盡其職務監督之 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9937.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9958.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
以亡羊補牢 避免法官失去其職務分際及自律能力十九條二十條法律都授權給你 所以我才說我們現在沒有所謂的這個考機把它改成全部都只有良好跟不良好 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9959.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9984.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
不良好的有夠少 但是要搭配職務監督給你庭長 給你審判長 給你院長都讓你們減少分量 分案量要讓你去做職務監督可是呢 大家都沒人要做派人庭長 審判長支持一個頭銜這都拿外面拿出來社交當工具啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9985.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9988.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
社交工具 來 這個庭長要來跟我們吃飯這個審判長要來跟我們吃飯 吃得很爽 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9993.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10012.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
但是呢 他們只想要享受這一個頭銜這個頭銜的權利出嫁出去都很好用的但是 賦予這個頭銜的責任沒有人要承擔所以停頓 先破頓不是大家 現在大家都在擔心先掛 做停頓啊 審判長 庭長吃很硬的啊 硬的很臭的啊人家請他們吃飯啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10020.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10028.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
但是呢 職務監督沒有人要去做現在變成怎樣失去了平衡的法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10029.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10058.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
司法制度沒有蘿蔔棒子蘿蔔薪水這麼低詐騙集團一誘惑就跑了棒子沒人要做派人所以我現在再問你一次吳東都院長他說司法判決後看司法看法官的裁判書不僅是權限而且還是院長的責任義務你同不同意我同意同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10063.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10086.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
法官法第19條 還有法官法第35條法官評鑑委員會司法院組成的你如果送 其實都是法官和法官相互包庇可以要送評鑑委員會的 都送人審會啦然後評鑑委員會又輕輕放下在這種過程裡面喔 大家都不要做壞人 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10088.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10109.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
評鑑委員會法官法第35條第6項有一個規定法官評鑑委員會為確定行為模式的必要得就未經請求的違實情勢予以調查和審議你選一個案件 各案列在評鑑委員會但是為什麼我們要做這個法官法第35條第6項的這一個立法我剛才說這個要立法要從何而來 你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10115.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10120.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
你要做什麼 你一定發光發不光你賠不開 沒關係我告訴你就是說不當行為你這個發光已經人審會包庇不住了重大到要到評鑑委員會來了好 你這個行為是無所謂無中的 偶爾為之的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10138.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10151.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
還是你這樣的審理案子的行為模式是一個行為模式如果是一個行為模式我們現在要說受害者絕對不會是只有一個不會是只有兩個很多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10155.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10172.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以有問題的法官通常都是慣行慣犯行為模式都一樣的但是呢法官法第35條第6條評鑑的時候可以就沒有人來請託把他過去所有的審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10173.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10197.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
看他的狀況有沒有為師都一併調查和審議沒人要做 沒人要做你如果要來做 我不知道說因為你來自檢查體系你愛這個不當 訴刑不良的法官你愛他們會受罰 但是我要跟你說法官的不當行為2023年10月16號士林地方法院法官蘇錦秀 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10199.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10222.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
在法官論壇 法官論壇他變成只能對外放話了接著他擔任陪席法官的時候有何義廷三名法官共同評議以後結果這個庭長就曉白了人三個人各標管2比1庭長卻拒絕在審判書上簽名因為他是一個的那一個少數 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10224.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10242.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
違反民事訴訟法第227條前項 違判決的法官應於判決書內簽名 以及法院組織法第105條他違反了這樣的規定 這麼重大 他不是送評鑑委員會他送人審會啦 人審會認為沒有違失啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10246.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10260.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這一個庭長還威脅書記官不准公告判決主文因為他的個人看法跟兩個人的看法不一樣所以導致宣判當日沒有辦法依法公告主文 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10261.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10262.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
送人審會啦 2023年11月7號 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10295.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10305.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
他還把自己簽名簽在裁判長他在言辭辯論的筆錄當中簽名自己是裁判長都很明顯違法程序面 民事訴訟法規定這個法官不是視若無睹 視為 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10314.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10330.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
是不當一回事 看不在眼裡 視法律如無物喔要行依法判決的法官 把法律踩在腳底下多得很啦 多得很啦 這種不孝的法官喔 很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10331.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10356.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
明顯違法不安全 我再講一下 你聽啊2023年11月14日司法院人事處公布了人審會的決議針對新北地方法院民事庭裡昭榮法官在審理過程當中沒有向當事人說明合意 你們兩個如果合意停止訴訟 何蓋停止了所產生的法律效果沒有提醒書記官要注意後續的聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10357.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10386.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
導致當事人的案件被視為撤回起訴影響訴訟權益重大還有2021年3月苗栗地方法官周靜妮對當事人動以私刑要受年當庭掌嘴下跪還欺負社工還揚言要在法院放火這種的 以這個個案監察院也糾正過監察院糾正我念不念你聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10389.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10404.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
監察院糾正周敬禮法官的違法行為發現周敬禮法官從104年開始就出現無故嚴當羈押案件審理以及辦案瑕疵等狀況未能發揮預防功效 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10404.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10405.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
現在要說的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10435.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10451.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這裡做議定委 做庭定委都沒有人在行使職務監督這裡換我不肖的法官 無法無天繼續敗壞司法的形象這裡是問題這裡有立法院整天在這裡假改革所以院長責任重不重大這是非常要緊的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10463.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10468.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
謝謝林淑芬委員的詢問也謝謝我們被提名人他被提名人請謝謝您謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10489.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10514.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
好 謝謝接下來我們登記最後一位賴世保委員請詢問謝謝主席韓院長以及各位先進大家早安 大家好這個有請我們的司保院長被提名人蔡先生麻煩再請再被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10524.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10545.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
蔡貝廷銘這個我不知道怎麼稱呼你你當過主任檢察官我就姑且因為你還沒當院長嘛還有我們的同意嘛我就稱呼你蔡主任好了蔡主任我想我們做任何事情我們看一個人那個英文有一句話叫Track Rake |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10546.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10572.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
很重要 check record 你知道嗎你過去的履歷啦你做的一些的事情 check record你的 check record 就是地檢署的主任檢察官高檢的主任檢察官你不覺得你來當司法院長底子有點薄嗎太薄啦 太薄你感覺怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10574.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10601.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
你看以前的院長是誰翁越生賴英照賴浩敏現在的許中立我對他也有一點意見啦是就這個處理事件的事情有一件可是好歹許中立是台大的教授你呢就是單抄一句從頭到尾就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10603.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10627.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這個檢察署的主任檢察官底子深版很薄啦我都高度質疑喔這個賴總統提名你喔有點想把你拿來當炮灰準備被封殺的然後再激起朝野對抗就變這樣了我這樣講話你可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10629.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10647.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這個我沒辦法評論這件事情我沒辦法評論沒辦法接受齁那我另外告訴你你會比較喜歡聽到的說不定你不喜歡聽到那我就告訴你為什麼你被提名原因之一因為賴清德當立委的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10649.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10658.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
他去檢舉指控2005年的時候檢舉指控雷學敏收賄2000萬美金檢察官起訴第一個檢察官起訴是誰盧仁發第二個檢察官是誰就是蔡秋明就是閣下 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10674.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10686.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
你先不要講喔你先不要講你就是盲從這個是誰寫的這個是陳昌文我們的法界 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10688.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10713.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
大佬寫的你就是盧仁發他這樣寫喔盧仁發濫權開端蔡秋敏盲從我要講這個字盲從跟著起訴結果呢歷經9年被判無罪被判無罪還要陪雷學敏將軍結果你現在到現在為止你是 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10718.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10747.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
並沒有受刑法125條濫權追訴罪的罪責所以你沒有被追責 照理講你要被追責啊你濫訴啊判了9年 他無罪 報告委員 這個案子我剛已經講了第三次 這個案子不是我起訴的無罪嘛 反而他是無罪的嘛 到現在無罪嘛 雷先生無罪啊你是起訴檢察官之一啊我不是起訴檢察官之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10748.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10749.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
前面有委員提到的 我就長話短說 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10768.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10785.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
所以如果不是我第一個講的情況來這裡當炮灰那是第二個情況他感恩戴德因為你抓到他的心他要追究雷學敏你抓到他的心所以提名你這個你還有話講嗎這個我要解釋的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10795.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10806.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
雷先生這個案子我不是起訴檢察官所以沒有什麼報答之類的你有沒有簽字有沒有簽字簽字簽字啦你有簽字嗎我當時人不在台北地檢我怎麼簽字呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10815.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10836.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以跟你沒有關係?不是跟我沒有關係,但是這個案子我就不是起訴檢察官啊不好意思,你是什麼?辦你什麼角色?這個案子後來在公訴的時候,審判的時候我有參與立庭就是參與公訴活動是嗎?所以你有參與嗎?怎麼沒有參與?不然陳昌文不會冤枉你嗎?陳律師有點搞錯啦,有點搞錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10837.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10842.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我跟妳談這個廢死的問題憲法法庭做出一字決的實質廢死老實講全台灣的老百姓反彈之大是非常的憤怒 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10866.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10893.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
老百姓85%是反廢死的結果因為民進黨政府他追求所謂的進步價值他跟著歐盟跑所以就要推動廢死但是這個大法官的一個憲法法庭很厲害喔他知道民意在這裡給你空空你愛好你 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10895.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10916.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
所以他說核心可是你要判死刑每一審都要判死刑極有不可能啊所以這是實時廢時老百姓對這個事情到現在為止是不能夠放過這一群的大法官的憲法法庭的解釋這個你要不要表示你的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10919.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10941.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
一三憲判第八號這個判決事實上是肯定死刑的存在他並沒有否定這個死刑等於沒有了他那個大佛跟四憲之後等於沒有了是的困難度會比較高等於沒有了等於台灣現在沒有死刑了 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10943.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10960.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
不能這樣推 我想這個不相等跟廢除死刑是不一樣的辭職廢死 我要講辭職廢死所以老百姓就會想啊 這個司法院啊司法院啊 老實講 已經變成 被內閣化了我給你舉例啊 注意看啊2023年 司法官學院的院長沒有經過遴選後 行政院拍板 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10973.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10999.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
國事會議改革消極應對無力主導2023到2024檢查一體的爭議默許行政體系掌控檢察權所以基本上來講你變成已經淪為總統府總統的一個司法局等一下我再跟你講為什麼現在可以看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11000.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11025.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
賴清德總統為什麼要發動大罷免他現在就是兼總統權 行政權 監察權 考試權 司法權 媒體權就獨獨的缺了一個立法權所以為什麼他非得搞大罷免要把我們都罷掉 希望拿到立法權就區權合一啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11026.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11052.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
齊全合一就超級大總統簡稱皇帝這樣他要做這個事情你告訴我你的回答對我要不要投你統一票很重要喔雖然我對你諸多批評我不見得一定否定你喔我這個五十五十喔看你表現啊 盡你表現啊這個你要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11053.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11068.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
你如何外界已經認為司法院已經淪陷了 徹底淪陷了不再中立不再獨立就是內閣化就是內閣化 內閣的一環何其悲哀你如果當院長如何匡正這個事情關於政治解讀的事情我不方便評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11077.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11097.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我的理解司法院不是總統的司法局我的理解是這樣憲法法庭還是能夠維持獨立審判獨立審判的空間這是我的認知 謝謝我們來看我們來看那個萊豬的視線就好了萊豬的視線萊豬的視線 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11109.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11135.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這個很清楚的萊豬的失陷案地方政府想要說你中央規定我地方政府嚴格一點為什麼因為中央說不可以啊這個案子最赤裸裸的大法官徹底向當權者跪下來投降最好的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11137.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11167.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
各地方政府為了他的老百姓健康我嚴格一點為什麼不可以我只有標示說這有來致還是沒有來致 不可以為什麼說不可以因為美國說不可以美國爸爸說不可以所以中央政府就指定 不可以然後就去釋憲 釋憲大法官完全跟行政部門一樣我告訴你啊我為什麼說你們已經變成司法局 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11168.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11195.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
從蔡英文當總統之後所有的視線全部都是民進黨要的民進黨不要的一個都不會過現在為止一樣我們立法院立了法我們代表人民我們的民力是百分之百請問你後面有幾票你沒有民力基礎就是總統提名你我有民力基礎我有民力基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11196.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11225.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我文山區南中正選出來的立委我們加寫的名利是百分之百然後呢最少我們過半通過了法律這個行政院不要了賴清德不要了就交給你們 你們就把他封殺誰看到這個事情好像拳擊賽一個擂台裡面行政司法行政立法在那裡大家在那裡彼此的struggling然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11226.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11252.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
旁邊裁判就是你們你幫一邊啊 幫行政啊阿打一啊現在叫阿打一啊所有行政院不要的案子通通丟給你們你們通通做的解釋都是跟行政部門一模一樣這不是司法局 什麼才是司法局何其悲哀啊我講到現在為止蔡這個主任你都沒辦法反駁我 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11253.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11274.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我都講事實I'm talking fact我想事實我能不能稍微回應一下我想司法權確實不是民選的司法人員都不是民選那民選他沒有民意基礎這確實但是不民選有不民選的好處就是說他並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11275.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11288.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
黨派的利益 因為民選他有黨派所以呢 你們都有啊 結果都有啊司法權本來就有抗多數的這樣的特性這個叫做 counter majority |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11288.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11316.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那這個在美國的一個學者你們不是抗多數是抗人民啊你們解釋一下是抗人民啊我們是人民選出來的我們就立出來的法律你們要把我們推翻你們是抗人民啊立法委員是有民意基礎是沒錯的當然是啊所以你們否定我們對不對這個行政院喔他的權利喔打一個巴掌過來呼籲然後呢還不夠輸了你們再來一個巴掌 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11317.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11329.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
如果大法官用選的那就更嚴重了好在大法官不是用選的沈政軍你剛說什麼我說大法官不是用選的啦因為選的他要對選民負責他就有政治立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11330.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11356.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
他不能有政治立場他提名有沒有良心啊他提名有沒有為了台灣這個社會現在全部綠化 綠油油的一片所以當然解釋的結果就是全部的綠化當然是一個司法局啊怎麼會司法院呢是不是 然後我們再看啊你們做的結果 你們做的一個解釋先是憲法法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11358.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11387.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
跟民意差很多 沒有辦法推翻你你們說 哇 你們就是憲法 你們最大你們是神 奇怪 老百姓咧我們不是所有的 Everything我們所有的一切都為人民了人民的意思 人民最大人民可以用公投來推翻你們的解釋文可以吧最低的 我們最低的一點點的請求期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11388.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11393.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
人民用公投的一個結果來推翻我們大法官的這個憲法法庭的解釋力這個問題算是蠻有趣的問題不是有趣 還講有趣當然是很嚴肅的問題 我意思就是說所謂有趣的問題 意思就是說它是值得探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11413.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11429.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
但是現在目前由大院所訂的憲法訴訟法裡面,能夠成為憲法法庭審理的案件,它有明文的規定,規定得很清楚。 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11431.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11445.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那其中並沒有包括說這個大法官會議的大法官憲法法庭的那個判決可以作為公投的標的沒有這樣規定我們公投項目加一個憲法法庭的解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11450.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11476.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
解釋結果我們加一條就好了條問題在你因為你想當院長的你的態度很重要白德惠我剛才話沒講完一開頭沒講完你對於廢死的態度是什麼廢死的態度你慢慢回答仔細回答廢死的態度我想我剛剛已經提過就是我個人並不贊成廢死不贊成廢死那我有我的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11477.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11481.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
來 我再給你看一張賴總統執政司法改革的表現民眾滿意三十趴不滿意五十倍趴差有夠多 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11494.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11513.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
就是我講的啊因為現在司法院不再是司法院現在司法院就是司法局可悲自治真的悲哀了因為都從民進黨執政以後到現在為止所有憲法法庭所做的解釋全部 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11516.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11531.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
執政黨都是他們贏的啊在野黨一次都沒有贏過就很清楚啊所以只要我們現在立了法韓運長主廚這麼辛苦你看到我都替他這麼辛苦這麼聰明的一個人在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11533.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11547.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
努力老半天 案子過了到你們那裡就宰掉了就宰掉啦我們一直想這個心很痛耶台灣是什麼社會啊為什麼立法院 人民選舉院立法院我立的法 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11549.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11578.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
通過了 主席的垂直一敲欸 還不算欸 全世界都算了垂直一敲就算了 不是喔就當媽爹 後面在那裡喔 大法官在那裡他說 NO 不可以的 不可以的很悲哀喔這個 蔡主任到現在為止我沒有聽到你有什麼辦法能夠來或者你敢不敢說 如果你當院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11580.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11609.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
最少有一件會解釋出來這個不會非法要執政黨我想純粹的政治性案件那應該憲法法人是不會受理的萊豬怎麼是政治性的案件呢萊豬是跟大家的健康有關係啊吃在家裡時間久了健康出問題啊這什麼政治事件呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11609.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11634.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
或者是行政事務的案件行政事務對不對好 另外一個我很關心的題目很少人問你我要問你一個問題很嚴肅台灣的青少年被大麻金屯纏死到處可以見到大麻的萃取物比如說電子煙比如說加熱源 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11636.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11651.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
而且你去看到你都很清楚你警察官在監獄裡面好高的比例過半都是毒有關係現在大麻在我們的位階裡面都是二級毒品對不對你贊成合法化嗎我個人不贊成合法化你要公開講大聲一點我個人不贊成大麻合法化 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11666.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11667.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那我希望假如你當院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11680.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11707.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
這個絕對不能輕放因為一直有人想要推動大馬合法化想要學泰國想要學其他有些國家說從娛樂性的開始用然後什麼地方等等的我覺得這個害死我們的下一代害死台灣這個非常的重要最後一點就是大馬合法化 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11710.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11732.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
絕對要反對絕對不能容於台灣的社會這一點非常重要也請這個蔡主任你緊記這個不管你有沒有當院長我覺得這個大家一起來努力好不好謝謝好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝賴思寶委員的詢問也謝謝蔡備提名人的說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11738.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11767.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
報告全院委員會我們對司法院大法官並為院長被提名人蔡秋明先生詢答部分到此為止我們非常謝謝蔡被提名人列席的答詢那也謝謝王玉民委員從早到現在一直在陪同我們進行審查下午兩點三十分繼續開會進行對司法院副院長被提名人蘇素娥女士質詢問現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
12336.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
12337.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
12525.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
12526.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
13992.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
13993.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
15165.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
15167.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
15533.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
15533.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
17194.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
17194.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
18901.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
18903.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
19052.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
19053.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
19297.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
19298.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
21595.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
21618.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
好 報告全院委員會 我們現在繼續開會我們也歡迎被提名的蘇素娥女士今天來列席我們全院委員會今天下午我們開始審查司法院大法官並為副院長提名人蘇素娥女士之資格以及是否私認相關事項我們現在請蘇素娥女士來做說明時間10分鐘 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
21635.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
21662.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
以及各位委員各位女士各位先生大家好我是蘇素娥今天以大法官並為副院長被提名人的身分到立法院接受各位委員的審查深感榮幸同時也覺得責任重大我現在就個人的學經歷專業表現司法改革的主張人權理念以及擔任大法官並為副院長的期許提出口頭報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
21664.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
21681.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我出生在台北市的萬華區父母親是從嘉義縣六角鄉北上尋找工作機會的務農者媽媽是在傳統市場擺攤求學的過程一直受到師長的照顧領取獎學金順利完成學業 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
21683.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
21698.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
課餘經常到市場幫忙照顧攤位在國中的時候獲得校替楷模的表揚因為我的個性很明朗而且具有正義感所以我大學聯考的志願全部都選填各大學的法律系 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
21699.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
21725.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
如願進入了臺灣大學法律系來就讀然後受到教授、同學以及社會氛圍的啟發開始關心人權保障以及憲政發展的相關議題也積極參加社團活動到偏鄉服務協助和同理弱勢我是從民國81年10月8號開始分發士林地方法院服務擔任法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
21726.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
21754.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
大部分的時間我在辦理刑事案件也曾經辦理過民事案件跟家事案件同時也兼任了司法院職務法庭的法官所以我的審判經驗豐富而且多元然後個人在懲辦案件中如果有適合的案件會闡述人權保障跟憲政原理原則的判決曾經有判決收錄在王澤健教授的教科書中 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
21755.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
21769.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
或者经过大学的研究所采为实务研讨的案例同时有多篇被选为最高法院跟高等法院可供参考的裁判所以我的裁判品质是有受到肯定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
21769.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
21784.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
民國89年到90年間我前往美國加州大學伯克萊分校進修一步一腳印滿懷感激除了審判的經驗之外我很幸運有機會可以去歷練司法行政的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
21785.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
21811.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那擔任過司法院刑事廳的廳長以及士林地院的院長推動並實踐跟人權保障相關的法案譬如說推動刑事妥數審判法的立法修正刑事訴訟法裡面關於偵查中羈押審查程序的強制辯護以及越卷制度完善被害人的這個陳述意見以及被告的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
21814.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
21830.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
獲知權並修正了再審的制度還有增訂了限制出境出海的篇章被害人訴訟參與的章節以及刑事被告科技監控的相關規定此外我也負責草擬國民法官法 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
21831.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
21852.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
辦理全國的這個實務法庭的模擬在整個司法行政的這個歷練當中我努力的去貫徹憲法對於人民基本權利的保障並且增進人民對司法的了解跟信賴經過這個審判實務跟司法行政的雙重歷練我了解到獨立 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
21853.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
21873.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
公正、專業而且有效能的司法是人民對司法改革最深的期望然而現在的法院面臨前所未有的挑戰我們正遭受洪水般巨量的案件來淹沒依照司法院112年的統計年報過去10年的收案量增加了29.48% |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
21876.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
21897.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
桂潔案件增加了111.13法官及相關司法人員長期過勞人才大量流失社會的變遷這麼快司法改革的議題越來越複雜但是人民對於司法改革的期望從來沒有停止未來如果蒙大院的委員同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
21898.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
21913.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
讓我來擔任大法官並為副院長我將輔導我將輔佐協助司法院的院長關注以下的議題第一是捍衛審判獨立以公平正義為司法的核心價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
21913.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
21932.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
因為相關的民調跟研究顯示人民對於司法最深切的期望是司法可以獨立而且公正裁判因此致力於維護審判獨立環境避免外來的干預跟壓力來影響審判實現公平正義是人民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
21933.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
21948.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
期待未來我們將繼續來推動國民法官制度使司法更加的公開透明同時也會務實的調整訴訟制度維護獨立及公平審判的環境第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
21949.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
21965.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
建構專業而有效能的司法我們會盤點整體的司法資源細緻來分配人力有計畫的培養優秀審判及司法行政人才團隊合作跨領域來整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
21966.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
21991.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
統一法律見解精緻量刑提高裁判的安定性跟可預測性再來進行司法檢壓以目前司法實務的過勞現況司法改革需要更多資源的投入法官跟相關司法人員均需要有效的來增補並且要研議防止爛訴簡化裁判書類推廣訴訟外紛爭解決的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
21995.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
22013.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
優化案件及行政管理的流程透過實用的科技工具來減少不必要的勞力、時間跟費用同時我要強化司法同仁身心健康的關懷措施增加司法人員互助成長的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
22014.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
22039.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
最後還要連結到國際司法交流因為在數位的時代各種法律的爭議無遠弗屆跨國存在我國已經有了穩健的司法體系也面臨到跟其他國家相類似的司法困境我們可以與其他國家的法院建立穩定的合作與交流開拓國際視野提升專業能量最後我想表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
22040.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
22060.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
大法官是憲法的守護者保障人權維持憲政秩序的價值跟理念值得我們世世代代去捍衛我來自基層從事審判工作多年依據憲法法律超越黨派獨立審判對我來說是生活的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
22060.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
22075.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我所經歷的每一個案件都是別人的生命故事人生經驗的累積讓我可以了解人民對國家對司法的期待是什麼如果獲得大院委員同意擔任大法官並為副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
22076.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
22098.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我會始終如一依據憲法獨立審判以保障人民的基本權利維護憲政秩序為直制同時我會以過往累積的司法行政經驗輔佐院長推動司法行政業務扮演一個稱職的大法官並為副院長角色敬請各位委員指教謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
22103.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
22111.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我們現在進行委員詢問每位委員詢問及答覆時間為20分鐘採問及問及答的方式進行如果有詢問的委員不在場我們就視為放棄 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
22125.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
22135.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
第一位陳廷飛委員質詢問以書面提出我們列入記錄刊登公報接下來我們請王宏威委員詢問張啟凱委員請準備好謝謝主席請備題名人蘇蘇文理事麻煩請備題名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
22163.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
22175.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
在您的自傳裡面,您曾經擔任司法院的刑事廳廳長,也擔任過我們士林第八法院院長,您也自己說自己審判過很多案件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
22176.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
22190.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
但是呢最近台灣社會對於司法到底是不是公正到底有沒有雙標到底能不能保護好人人存在非常非常大的疑慮前兩天 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
22191.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
22206.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
在新北市土城一個有家暴案的男子當街殺了他的妻子跟他的小姨子而前一天才在司法在法院申請了保護令 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
22207.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
22226.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那大家舉國華然就是這個保護令根本沒有辦法保護被家暴的對象而讓他當街慘死另外在前一陣子台灣因為詐騙橫行 封員一家五口 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
22227.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
22253.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
因為被詐騙一家五口死於非命最後呢在整個的調查的過程裡面其中一個重要的涉案人以15萬元交保所以台灣社會就說了難道一條命只值3萬元嗎所以連續的這些事件我想請問一下我們的被提名人您也是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
22255.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
22277.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
相關的法院的經驗非常豐富不管是這個家暴令隔天立刻慘死街頭或者是一家五口被詐騙最後15萬元交保您覺得在司法上面是不是有什麼樣的疏失或者跟我們社會的期待事實上距離太遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
22279.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
22293.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
謝謝委員提問委員第一個問題是關於家暴令的問題家暴法在民國87年通過當時是整個大陸法系國家第一個有家暴法的國家是中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
22294.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
22312.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
家暴法的施行關於保護令的部分必須有很多單位的配合法官裁了保護令之後譬如說社政、警政都要相互的配合現在還有社工的要介入當然就是這個案子很不幸我們感到非常的心痛 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
22313.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
22335.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
這個案子在司法上面有沒有疏失或者有沒有要精進的地方法官在裁保護令經過適當的調查所以如果看那個時間的話是還在合理的範圍你認為是合理的範圍就保護令的部分的裁這就是我們在質疑的司法到底能不能保護好人 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
22336.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
22351.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
每一個人都認為他在那個環節裡面他做了他應該做的事但是最後的結果就是悲劇發生好 那我請問最近我們常常在討論也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
22352.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
22368.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
檢察官申請羈押那到底要不要交保交保金到底是多少最近有非常多討論我剛提到豐原五口15萬元交保但是另外一個案子就是因為呢有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
22369.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
22395.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
粉絲專業的小編他把幾個檢察官他的照片秀出來做了一個梗圖說命在命還結果呢就羈押禁建所以大家覺得說詐騙造成無口之家全部死於非命15萬元交保另外呢這個是檢察官當然會不爽然後就羈押禁建我們過去還有太多的案例啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
22397.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
22399.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
花眼12万元交保 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
22400.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
22429.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那麼還有很多共諜案 所謂共諜案20萬元交保或者最近也發生一個案子讓台大醫院面上無光就是台大的民醫社性侵案40萬元交保你不能不說他的設計地位是很崇高他隨時可以離開台灣的然後棄保潛逃讓台大醫院的院長都經不住大罵這位潛逃的性侵的醫生 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
22430.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
22458.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我讲到这么多的案例更不要讲我们之前好几个什么那种百万赌王一样的交保之后交保潜逃所以请问一下我们社会都在问那么法院在检察官来说就是他在要羁押开羁押庭的时候他的交保或者羁押他的标准到底是什么看起来我们变得非常混乱了 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
22459.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
22479.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
反而覺得有本事有辦法的他可能幾萬甚至上百萬交保對他們來講九牛一寶交保之後他就交保潛逃了但是我剛才講比如像這個小編這樣子對檢察官檢察官不爽但是他到了一個積壓境界的狀況連交保都不給他交保 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
22480.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
22495.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那所以,我不曉得在法院系統有沒有去討論過這樣的一個羈押的標準到底是什麼?交保的條件又是什麼?該交保不交保,該羈押不羈押,有沒有這樣的狀況? |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
22497.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
22525.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
謝謝委員提問委員提到的這個封員無口應該還是在偵查的階段那偵查的這個階段他的事實是浮動的我們不曉得檢察官他手邊掌握的證據到一個什麼程度所以就這個部分還沒有到院方我們也沒有辦法做出比較真切的評論那麼至於其他的案件就是在就是如果檢察官申請羈押的時候我們法官會根據法律的規定來就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
22526.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
22541.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
相關的要件一一審核之後來做最後的判斷被提名人您是被提名為司法院副院長我剛才也聽到你如果能夠當司法院副院長你有一些想要做法可是老實說我們看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
22541.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
22558.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
你們對於司法的公平正義還有它的標準目前在社會大家覺得非常的失望跟期待落空很多你們想要做出什麼樣的努力我剛才講的就是以交保的這個標準我們看到USASA |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
22559.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
22570.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
覺得應該去羈押的你不羈押該交保的你不去交保另外你在這邊也特別提到你希望能夠追求審判獨立 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
22572.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
22596.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我想請問你 你知道社會的民眾大部分認為我們司法沒有審判獨立我引述一個美麗島電子報的一個民意調查針對司法的部分竟然有高達將近六成的人認為現在的賴政府是介入司法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
22597.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
22618.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
有將近6成59.3%的民眾認為司法在選擇性辦案您同不同意您覺得這樣子的民眾的看法跟你認為的是不是有落差而是不是也因此你希望要去爭取所謂的審判獨立 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
22620.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
22647.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
跟委員報告就我的同事就是在我工作的環境我們大部分的法官都是兢兢業業然後獨立審判這個是沒有錯的您剛剛提到的這個交保的這個標準不一造成大家很混淆那事實上就是個案的情況不同我們比較難以量化可是我們會利用各種機會跟教育的這個場所來提醒法官應該注意的事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
22649.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
22666.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
民眾對於司法有很高的期待這個我們了解或許我們做得還不夠我們會繼續努力那現在的審判有獨立嗎就您所了解就我所了解就我自己來講我覺得審判獨立就是我的日常生活的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
22666.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
22690.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這是你個人但是大部分呢怎麼會有這樣的一個民意調查的結果呢我覺得就是我們跟民眾之間可能還有需要更多的了解跟溝通這就是你們每一個案子就是一次的溝通在這麼多的案子之下累積下來民眾的感受就是如此另外因為今天是大法官審查我要請問您 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
22692.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
22715.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
因為您也是推動國民法官的推手之一那麼在大法官做出解釋憲判之八對於法院要判決死刑才行一致決事實上引起社會極大的爭議認為這是實質廢死 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
22718.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
22747.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
而這跟國民法官推動有沒有相漢格的地方也就是說當時為什麼要有國民法官就是很多人都認為很多是恐龍法官因為呢他們對社會或者民眾的期待民眾認為司法應該要保護民眾保護好人嚴懲壞人事實上那個差距太大了所以才因此要推動國民法官所以我想請問一下如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
22748.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
22752.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
大法官的一個解釋整個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
22753.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
22779.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
死刑的判決必須要一致決那你認為應該是有一致決就可以推翻國民法官判死嗎如果國民法官認為他應該判處死刑但是因為現在的大法官的解釋必須這些所有專業的法官要一致決那是不是國民法官他的判決就輕易的被推翻您贊成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
22780.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
22807.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
跟委員說明這個113年限8號的這個判決因為申請的案件裡面並沒有一件是實行國民法官的所以這個判決的效力射程距離並沒有包含到國民法官的案件那國民法官的案件他的評議有特別的規定那就是他的評議就是如果是要一般的案件的量刑是二分之一然後如果是死刑判決是三分之二 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
22808.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
22828.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
大法官在這個判決裡面有特別提到說如果是國民法官的判決的話也只有職業法官那三票要一致其他的部分就還是維持原來的三分之二的這個方式來進行所以他不應該涵蓋國民法官的案件嗎應該是他的射程距離沒有到國民法官的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
22830.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
22856.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
好我討論到這裡就是我們其實在對每一位大法官我們都很在意的就是在上一波的大法官提名裡面我們因為那時候九名大法官七名大法官他都有參與一些Face的行動或者是他在發文他的文章論述裡面支持Face那我請問一下被提名人你支持Face嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
22859.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
22883.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我的立場是這樣就是我覺得廢死這件事情它不應該是非黑即白的不應該是什麼並不是就是非黑即白就是只能夠有單一的選擇它應該是一個過程然後也可能就是在我們的大法官的解釋裡面我是問您個人您個人贊成廢死嗎你支持廢死嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
22885.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
22915.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
聽我說明完就是因為我就是在大法官的憲八裡面他是認為死刑是核限的死刑是核限的然後呢我自己擔任法官我的眼中只有法律跟證據如果法律跟證據是這個案子應該判死刑我就會本於確信來判死刑然後事實上呢在憲八的這一個判決裡面的三就是三十幾個案件裡面有個案件是我曾經審理過的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
22917.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
22943.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這個理論上我是應該要迴避這個案件的我覺得妳有點在迴避這個問題喔那我直接想請教妳喔妳是不是曾經捐款贊助給廢死聯盟曾經捐過兩萬塊為什麼因為就是有朋友來募款就是他們年底覺得說這個就是有需要款項所以其實我就捐了一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
22944.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
22954.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
所以單純只是因為有人跟你募款所以這不牽涉到你個人的立場或者是你支持廢死聯盟嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
22955.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
22974.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
應該是這樣說就是我的立場是法官就是根據法律來做跟證據來做判斷那事實上我也有判過死刑的案件就是依照當時的法律來做了判斷你的意思說你自己曾經判死過對不對是好那我想再請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
22975.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
22995.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我們現在在立法院,因為這是有廣大的民眾在網路上,大概有14萬的民眾的訴求陳情,尤其大家知道前一陣子的凱開案,大家認為您虐幼兒致死,應該判處死刑或者無期徒刑。 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
22997.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
23019.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
因為在行政院法務部遲遲沒有提出法務部的版本因為之前他們是反對的所以在立法院裡面現在國民黨的立法院黨團提出了刑法第286條的條文修正對幼童凌虐致死最高可以處於死刑或者無期徒刑你認為這樣的修正會違憲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
23024.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
23039.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
法定刑要不要定死刑這件事情是立法形成自由凌略幼童致死或者是凌略來殺害幼童或者是直接他的犯意呈現到殺人罪直接判殺人罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
23040.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
23067.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
都有可能就是如果經過大院的討論覺得應該要法定刑要升高到死刑的話那這個部分是立法裁量自由不過呢我想要提醒就是說相關的權責機關應該要做一個比較好的這個比對就是相關的這個相類似的這個相類似的刑罰是不是他的刑度是不是可以做一個比較不要差異太大會造成這個罪行不相當 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
23068.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
23081.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
所以你个人的话认为如果我们今天修正这个条文的话你不认为是有违宪之语因为我们现在很可怕行政院只要认为我们修正的是他们没有版本的他就认为是违宪了 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
23082.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
23109.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
現在應該是說單一死刑比較難通過憲法的檢驗我剛講到286條我沒有講其他的條文所以你這個部分你認為沒有違憲之餘另外請教一下我們在立法院之前曾經提出針對反對廢除死刑舉行全國性的公投但是被中選會駁回 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
23111.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
23136.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
我想請問你因為你在你回答就是我們各黨團的這個回答問題裡面你也認為重大政策立法院是可以提出全民公投的但是這個案子竟然被中選會來駁回你認為中選會駁回立法院所提出來的反Face公投適當嗎有沒有違憲之餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
23138.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
23139.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
你認為有實質審查權嗎立法院有實質審查權嗎 按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
23166.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
23195.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
大法官之前做出來的解釋大法官的解釋是說可以提重大公投的議案但是議案的內容是什麼可能要就是也要符合相關的規定第二條同時有規定到一個問題是說除憲法規定外就是基本上公民投票可不可以投憲法的議題這個可能會比較有爭議因為它有一個除外的規定那如果是已經就憲八的部分憲八因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
23195.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
23224.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
因為大法官已經做出了解釋他的效力相當於這個憲法所以就憲八就是要推翻憲八或是他詳細的內容我不是那麼清楚但是就是說如果是跟憲法的議題有關的話所以這就是我覺得被提名的人又認為整個大法官的視線是完全的無限的膨脹當時很多大法官還有大法官認為說大法官不用屈從民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
23225.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
23253.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
但是另外一方面我們賴總統也講啊對有爭議的時候要用更大的民主來解決啊其實立法院就是民意機關你民意機關定的這個提出來的公投案你還是不准那我們就用更大的民主來解決如果按照被提名你所說的那麼憲判8號他們這個已經說此席要一致決而這樣就不能夠來做全民公投的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
23253.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
23279.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那這就是漠視更大的民主漠視民意不是嗎這不是把大法官真的難怪大法官說我可以不需要屈從民意所以大法官好大喔所以我們剛才一直在討論從我一開始就這個我們整個質詢我的重點就是在於我們的現在的司法到底能不能讓人民幸福我們的司法到底能不能保護好人 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
23280.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
23299.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
嚴懲壞人他能不能成為社會公平正義的最後一道防線如果他不行的話我剛才看到前面的幾個例子當街慘死的也好或者詐騙一家五口死掉的也好或者我們有這麼做這麼多的案件這麼多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
23299.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
23323.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
被害者或被害家屬只是因為大法官一個偏頗然後他根本就違憲而且你說死刑本來就合憲啊死刑合憲但是你做出了這個大法官的解釋死的變成十字廢死空有其名但是沒有辦法判處死刑的時候難道人民不能夠決定嗎被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
23326.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
23337.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
整個司法改革最後一樣是要走到司法為名就是就是最早的司法改革追求的是審判獨立但是後來我們現在的主主要的基調是司法為名所以剛剛這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
23338.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
23362.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
委員所提到的就是要以人民的想法為依歸這個我都贊成這個你同意吧這是我們司法還是要以人民為依歸怎麼讓人民去幸福讓人民得到保障得到保護才是最高指導原則吧你同意嗎那另外這一點點是請教一下你認同中華民國憲法有權給予台澎金馬嗎這個大法 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
23369.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
23377.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
原來葉國鴻是政治問題之一所以你沒有辦法回答中華民國的憲法是不是太多了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
23403.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
23408.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
好 謝謝謝謝王宏偉委員的詢問也謝謝我們被提名人的說明 謝謝請坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
23424.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
23427.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
好 謝謝接下來我們請登記第三號張祺凱委員詢問吳思瑤委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
23469.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
23496.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
謝謝韓連長 請副院長貝提名人麻煩貝提名人再次說明你很好副院長貝提名人好你是這個擔任過行政廳的廳長行事廳對 行事廳的廳長行事訴訟方面你是專家啦對不對 我先請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
23497.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
23522.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
關於限制出境還有出海這個相關規定在刑訴訴訟法裡面的第幾邊 第幾章委員很抱歉我記不起那個數字不過那一整張是當時是我在的時候修的法關於就是刑訴訴訟法裡面關於限制出境還有出海這相關規定在刑訴訴訟法裡面的第幾邊 第幾章 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
23525.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
23554.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
就是數字我記不起來但是我知道這是你自傳裡面寫的是是是那一整張是我修的是我增訂進去的只是那個數字我記不起來我大概是從93條左右開始所以你不曉得在第幾邊數字會記不起來很抱歉來我給你看一下這個是掛在總統府的網站上面這也是你送到立法院來審查的自傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
23558.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
23579.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
你說你負責推動跟增訂《刑訴訴訟法》的第二篇第八章之一限制出境跟出海是這是對的嗎因為我現在可能要翻一下法條會比較清楚就是那一整章這是你重要的政績謝謝謝謝委員對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
23584.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
23609.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
你竟然不曉得他在第幾邊喔?呃...是不是...我想要確認一下是不是有打錯字或是什麼...嘿...委員的義...委員的義...這個我有點壓抑喔因為這算你重大的政績嘛是...可是數字部分可能真的比較沒有...你是刑事廳的廳長而且這是你長久推動的這是你自傳送過來又送到總統府的最嚴重的是什麼?不只你現在不曉得欸你的自傳還寫錯欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
23612.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
23629.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
這個規定是在第一邊耶你送到總統府送到立法院立法院審查的竟然是錯的很抱歉可能是誤善這是你寫的是不是是誤善這麼嚴重真的很抱歉你竟然也還不記得 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
23633.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
23634.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我記得條文我記得93條我記得條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
23653.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
23668.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
謝謝委員這回去馬上改這是一個認真的態度大法官應該是要認真的嘛第二個你要非常尊重立法院的審查你說裡面送來的資料都是不對的我要回去查還找不到這是你的專長 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
23671.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
23699.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
這扣分扣太多了這是對我們立法院審查的不尊重這樣也是對你被提名為大法官的被提名人一個不尊重我陳赤的道歉應該是誤善打字的時候就是誤善來 被提名我們再看一下上次你們來拜會的時候我特別提醒你我說我們辛辛苦苦非常詳細的做了問卷對不對是請你要盡快想死而且要盡快的 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
23701.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
23724.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
要填寫你在什麼時候 我們26號給你們嘛 對不對你什麼時候回來給我回來 我記得是禮拜一個 就是禮拜五我禮拜一才接到啊我在兩天前才接到你的回覆耶這是對我們審查制度的尊重嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
23726.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
23748.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我們為什麼辛辛苦苦要做問卷這是我們的職責也是你的職責你被提名了我們要很清楚知道你對很多事情的看法你要立場要有主張對不對結果你在前天才給我們這時間不會拖太晚嗎我們一起應該是星期五的下午可能有一點剛好是週末假日的時間差 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
23750.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
23779.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
拉得太長 26號給你 到前天才回來另外更嚴重的就是你的這個回答很多都是十問須答顧左右而言他我們看不到你的立場跟你的內容欸甚至在第二問的時候 大家看到沒有我們的十個問題第二問的時候問題啊 跟你的答案文字大概差不多在下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
23781.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
23802.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
第七問的時候在問你不適合檢察官的這個問題這個有沒有侵犯到人權有沒有不正新聞這是非常非常重要你剛在報告的時候還有答詢的時候在強調你非常關心人權嘛這麼重要的問題我題目473個字你回答了430個字為什麼會這麼一個是在敷衍嗎沒有跟委員報告我可以口頭來補充說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
23811.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
23835.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
因為檢察官的部分畢竟就是因為我長久是在審判體系所以檢察官的部分其實我們是確實是比較不了解的但是我知道法院組織法的部分檢察官的這個職務監督人他根據規定他可以做哪一些職務監督然後呢他也准用到法官法的一些相關的規定就是檢察官評鑑等等所以我是引用了這些條文然後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
23836.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
23852.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
來說明說現在有相關的規定來處理檢察官的違法失職然後這個規定在那裡但是委員覺得說好像執行起來好像不太有效這個應該是權責單位他們要去檢討說執行的問題這個是因為是檢察官的部分我們審判體系確實是比較不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
23860.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
23868.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
被提名的人你在強調你是長久以來非常尊重人權對不對注意人權的結果這段時間的 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
23870.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
23896.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
不是任檢察官裡面的不正訊問或者是羈押的問題這是憲法第八條明文規定要保障人權也是你長久在追求的結果你是回答這樣短短幾個字看不到你很明確的立場跟堅定的立場我們在投票的時候這一題要幫你加分還是扣分當然扣分啊最重要的是十個題目我剛才講你是所有七個被提名人裡面資歷算是幾乎是最完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
23897.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
23923.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
這是加分結果你的問卷裡面扣分滿滿幾乎是死當的一個狀態跟委員報告這個關於那個不當詢問的部分我有特別引用了刑事訴訟法第156條它事實上就是在處理不正詢問的問題那他提到的是這個被告自白一定要有任意性他不能夠這個被就是在強暴脅迫不正詢問的方法之下來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
23925.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
23943.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
來做陳述所以您提到了這個不正詢問我特別提到了這個刑事訴訟法第156條的規定如果檢察官引用了這一個這樣的不正詢問的公訴來當作證據的話在開庭的時候這個資料是會公開的在開庭的時候法官經過調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
23944.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
23965.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
他經過調查之後他會他可以認為說不具任意性把證據排除不正詢問的部分後來如果經過調查確實確有歧視的話警方或者是檢察官可能都還要面對可能的跟根據事證或情節他有可能有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
23966.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
23994.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我們題目裡面提了很多針對這段時間受到不正信問的侵犯的事情你都沒有明確去回答我們甚至還特別問你徵訊的內容是不是應該公開你也不回答有太多的該回答的東西沒有回答我其實有回答就是說徵訊的內容它是卷證的一部分它起訴之後它自然就會公開了在法庭上會公開的然後上面這個第二題這個我們特別提到說限訴法這個修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
23995.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
24010.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我們詳細的說明了我們這次修正的這個重點連全世界相關的都寫了我們特別請教你要你明確的表達意見說有沒有如戴卿的總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
24011.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
24013.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
要你回答明確了你是短短一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
24033.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
24050.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
我先明確跟你講現在我取的只是其中的一部分就是實題下來你跟其他的七位被提名人你幾乎是相當少的一部分第二個你都是實問虛答這基本上在我們審查的過程裡面我們沒辦法很清楚看到你的主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
24051.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
24079.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
我們為什麼要做問卷就是希望你把你的我們有十問每一個立場要非常清楚我們了解你的立場跟主張之後才能夠投同一票嘛 是不是這樣子是 謝謝委員委員這個部分我也可以口頭來補充這方面真的要補考啦來 再看看你現在要被提名為副院長嘛你是要這段時間台灣民眾對於司法的滿意度 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
24080.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
24106.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
跟信任度是非常低的我們看一下美麗島電子報啊 四月底那個 給你們你可以看一下政府有沒有選擇性辦案 將近六成政府 政治力有沒有介入檢調機關辦案將近六成政治力介入了司法案件你要現在當這個副院長 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
24109.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
24116.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
將近六成為什麼台灣民眾對於司法的不滿意不信這麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
24120.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
24146.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
臺灣民眾對司法的信賴度不高我們確實有要深自檢討的地方當然有部分原因是因為我們覺得還要更加加強的跟民眾來做溝通然後我們自己就是要做到的就如同我剛剛提到的我們必須把公平正義當作我們說要投票給你你怎麼讓我們的司法信任度跟滿意度可以升高 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
24147.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
24152.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
你要做什麼事情今天早上被院長被提名人說他痛加檢討如果他投票給你 你要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
24153.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
24178.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
我刚刚已经提到说我们了解人民对司法的这个的鞭策跟期待是很深的而且不会停止的所以司法改革的脚步也从来没有停止过然后所以我们一定会再加强相关的比如说我刚才提到说这个要每一个法官把这个公平正义的这个精神当做他最重要的一个核心价值 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
24180.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
24207.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我來給你看一下你以前的經驗你當過刑事廳的廳長民國105年11月21號到109年的2月2號你上任前啊大家對於法院的法官的不信任度是高的48.5可是在你上任之後更高啊隔一年還更高啊當然不能只有怪你一個人可是沒有看到你的承擔看到你的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
24209.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
24236.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
所以妳要加油啦謝謝妳就擔任了副院長之後真的是百惠待舉我們再看一下現在更嚴重的是連大法官都不被信任了從這次的國會改革一直到實質廢止這個事情太多的民眾對我們的大法官本來是高道德高標準的對不對現在很多人在馬路上都跟你講說搞不好這變成已經是政治的一個打手 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
24238.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
24266.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
這是很嚴重的一個問題好來 我來具體的事實上我們在這邊投票給你我相信全國民眾要看你就看你的擔當你的獨立性跟公正性你有沒有擔當有一個發生在你跟你家人的為據實申報的這個案子來我們看一下這個案子這個一共是24筆沒有據實去申報嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
24269.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
24275.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
我看後來這個罰款處分監察院處分確定這個金額高達22萬高達22萬一共有24筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
24279.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
24289.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
那這個監裁處分書裡面他直接寫說受處分人應該依照規定據實申報財產可是在申報102年12月31號財產的時候就應申報這財產項目沒有據實申報配我是你的先生存款有9筆股票5筆基金受益憑證10筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
24304.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
24332.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
怎麼發生這麼嚴重的跟委員說明謝謝委員給我這個機會說明這件事情困擾我也很久了這個事情是發生在102年102年的時候當時的財產申報是用人工查詢、手工登錄的所以我配偶他給我的資料確實有遺漏剛剛委員提到說存款的部分存款的部分我們被查出來就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
24333.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
24361.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
他本來常用的就是那三個帳戶但是後來查出來了有14個帳戶我們自己都嚇到就是有一些可能已經放很久沒有用了那所以你剛剛提到說好像有11個帳戶沒有報沒有錯因為我們常用後來監察院說你經過你們受處分人所陳述的申報不實是理由他說不足採信對不對對他認為是故意的申報不實我先給你看一個你應該認得林子儀林教授對不對是來我們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
24362.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
24390.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
林子儀林教授是在2007年他跟你一樣他也被提名為副院長這個提名人一樣狀況他也是配偶財產申報的他的狀況是什麼他是主動發現他坦承疏失了然後呢他的金額比你多一點他三次股票交易虧損然後他是已經信託給證件公司錢錢去處理的他後來做了一個決定婉拒了司法院副院長的提名 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
24392.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
24414.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
你這邊看起來金額比他少一點點可是你是動態的而且是存款這看起來然後監察院認為說不採信你的嘛看起來有點嚴重跟委員報告監察院後面顯示說他認為我是不確定故意他認為我的錯是在我沒有竭盡所能去發現被配偶的財產這樣子那我的配偶就這個部分他已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
24415.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
24437.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
陳志德跟我道歉他確實是他提供的資料是不夠完整的那我們在被發現的這件事情之後我們就立刻就是去做了補正然後也繳了罰款我們沒有再做任何的這個訴願林教授是因為這樣子他婉拒的副院長提名那你說你的先生是已經有道歉了你要不要利用今天這個公開的這個在地法院這個審訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
24439.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
24466.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
這個審查你要不要公開跟民眾是不是要道歉大法官是高標準高道的我誠摯的道歉而且我在監察院後來採用電腦借機申報之後從事辦開始我們就全權授權從事辦開始我們就全權授權一直到現在就是我的態度是很明確的我知道我不夠完美但是我覺得我的專業表現值得給自己這樣一個機會好 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
24471.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
24481.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
你是國民法官法很重要的推手很多人是肯定你的國民走進法院法官走下法台 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
24482.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
24510.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
這個是國民法官法當初注定一個非常重要的一個特色他們說這是蔡英文總統任內最重要的一個司法改革那時候的院長是許仲麗他們說推動這個國民法官法起草這個草案就是由司法院著名的梅尼法官刑事廳長舒適的一手主導推寫社會大眾對你推這個國民法官法是肯定的謝謝在開宗明義第一章開宗明義的第一章 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
24513.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
24541.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
國民法官法講的是要提升司法的透明度對不對第二個要反映國民正當的法律感情增進國民對司法之了解跟信賴彰顯國民的主權理念那如果是要推動司法改革司法的這個透明度法庭直播你應該是要贊成的可是我看你回來的回來的我們問卷回來的你設了一堆條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
24543.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
24566.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
你贊成法庭直播嗎我再跟委員說明一下法庭直播的部分在6月27號三讀通過那三讀通過之後它是一個法規範理論上我們是尊重...抱歉我打斷你講話了你的精神你的初心應該是要推動公開透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
24568.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
24593.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
對不對 這兩個A是一致嘛從你推動國民法官法到法庭直播我現在懷疑的是說你的初心是不見了嗎為什麼你現在回來的問卷的答案跟民進黨的反對意見好像看起來不止百分之七十相像欸你很多都是複製推上欸很多是複製推上欸你剛才講你剛一開始自傳弄錯了你這個也是然後更嚴重的來你看一下你提到這個理由啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
24595.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
24605.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
你說此外相關的媒體的自律網路平台規範還有待建立現在的媒體不夠自律嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
24606.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
24632.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我跟董委員說明這個是我們立法院在召開公聽會的時候就是有代表就是有公聽會有各界的代表來表達很多的意見不是不是我是提醒就是說在那個公聽會裡面曾經就事實省的直播有意見就是說有比較多的意見時間有限我問你一下所以在媒體自律這塊如果有問題誰要負責NCC嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
24636.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
24662.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
NCC的委員到現在還被癱瘓啊沒有提是誰要負責任是誰要負責任我們是覺得說就是媒體或許可以再討論一個就是比較可行的方案行政院院長依法要提啊他到現在沒有提啊違法亂紀啊無法無天啊他大家要癱瘓NCC啊你講的這個問題行政院要負責啊第二個你講說網路平台規範有待建立網路平台什麼管欸誰管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
24666.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
24687.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
網路平台 行政體系誰在管是不是數位部嗎數發部啊這裡面出現兩個大問題啊你知道問題 那應該去解決問題啊第二更重要的 你的初心是什麼公開透明嘛 對不對不要再只有推別人的反對意見我希望你可以很明確的支持法庭直播 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
24702.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
24703.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
好 謝謝謝謝張祺凱委員的詢問也謝謝貝廷銘人的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
24720.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
24736.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
被提名請喝口水你喝我一直等你喝完水下面一位委員就開始詢問好謝謝接下來我們請登記第四位吳思瑤委員請詢問翁曉琳委員請準備謝謝院長有請我們蘇 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
24748.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
24753.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
副院長提名人麻煩被提名人再次說明委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
24760.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
24782.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
您辛苦了我今天的破題就是我們要在一個司法面臨著內外交迫的挑戰外有社會或來自於政治力的挑戰內有我們需要改革為司法人員減壓的困境所以如何在這個內憂外患的司法的險境當中我們能夠突圍能夠重生 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
24783.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
24798.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
所以在這個重建司法的關鍵時刻我還是要再一次的說我希望今天站在這裡來提出質詢的立法委員們都要相對的自治我想我們司法正義不應當成為政黨惡鬥的犧牲品 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
24799.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
24813.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
我真心的期待剛剛前幾位委員的質詢我聽了真的是無比的遺憾一再的針對個案來做誘導式的詢答或者是強迫你們針對政治立場來表態 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
24815.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
24844.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我吳思瑤的立場是我認為不見得要求您要針對提出來的每一個政黨詢問你們的題目你們的答案要跟我設想的一模一樣我們要選擇的不是一個聽話的大法官不是一個完全思想跟我個人一模一樣的大法官而是如何在多元民主包容的台灣社會能夠彰顯司法的獨立公正跟判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
24845.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
24864.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
这才是我们今天站在这里非常重要的意义我再说一次有媒体等会要采访我针对上午呢这个院长提名人针对在黄国昌委员的询答当中有提到这个院长提名人对于部分执政党认为涉及违宪的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
24865.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
24888.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
他認為恐怕沒有違憲我認為這樣的回答我不會因此而把他認為我不同意他我認為他的司法專業不足法律專業不足我再說一次我們不是要選擇聽話的大法官我們不是要選擇一個跟你百分之百政黨意識形態或者是對於案件的觀點或是政策的觀點一模一樣的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
24889.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
24905.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
我們要的是能夠如何在不同的多元思維之下還能夠彰顯法律專業跟司法正義的大法官我今天站在這裡我要用這樣子的態度跟您對話我更要忍不住的說 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
24907.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
24925.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
國人確實對司法的滿意度普遍還有待努力但是剛剛在這裡處處為難您的立法委員民眾黨的政黨支持度只有10.10%吧而他們在五月份的民調不滿意度高達54% |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
24928.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
24956.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
所以一個自己政黨滿意度都不高的政黨也應當反求諸己而不是一再這裡撻伐別人為難別人好下一頁這是我在去年針對我非常期待我們能夠誕生首位的司法院的女院長那時候針對姜文珍的院長提名人的時候我尋答的時候我準備的PPT就說你有看過這部影片嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
24957.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
24982.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
NHK的大席建議您可以看一看您一定很有很深的一個感觸這是三淵家子是日本的首位女律師那也是日本的首位女法官她講述了如何在一個性別禁忌的年代女性可以成為法律專業的佼佼者在那個禁忌的年代而中華民國台灣我們已經產生了女總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
24984.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
25005.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
但非常遺憾,去年的大法官院長同意權的行使,張文貞院長被提名人是被封殺的,但我們尊重這個結果。但我期待,有遺珠之憾張文貞沒有辦法容認院長,我非常期待蘇蘇兒您可以成為我們首位的司法院副院長。我給您無比的祝福,下頁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
25006.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
25017.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
而宪法法庭我们确实就性别的比例一直的在提升如果以2024年现任跟现任的大法官其实是女性男性一比二 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
25018.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
25044.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
如果這一次我們的提名能夠順利的話將來到女性七位男性八位是一比一所以說讓性別的憲法重量也能夠達到性別平權我再一次期待您可以為我們性別平權的性別主流化的司法行政司法院的領導帶來新的風氣下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
25047.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
25059.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
這邊我具體也跟您分享,不曉得您有沒有注意到,我們在法官人數,司法的從業人員的法官人數,女性已經來到1156位,男性是1043位,其實女性來到52.6%, |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
25070.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
25090.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
而右邊的這個圖表是各級法院的女性法官的占比在這十年間也都大幅的躍升所以如果您有機會可以成為我們未來領導的副院長您如何再深化在司法領域的性別主流化的意識呢簡單回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
25091.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
25107.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
是 就是在相關的會議就是相關各個法院有各式各樣的會議我們都會要求要符合性別主流化的規定然後在法官學院的課程裡面也都每年都有加入這樣的課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
25107.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
25123.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
而且盡可能也要把著更多優秀的女性司法人員事實上現在女性法官的人數好像也是非常高嗎是超過一半超過一半非常好所以這是比較進步性的議題我非常期待您能夠未來扮演重要的角色下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
25124.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
25153.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
那現在要進入一些政治題的深水區喔這一頁同樣也是我去年在追尋張文貞院長提名人的時候我提出來的Elena Coggan您應當對她也不陌生喔她是美國第四位的女性大法官當時歐巴馬提名的時候呢提名她為大法官候選人的時候基於政黨不同立場共和黨也對她做出非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
25153.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
25177.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
不公允的批判把他描述成一個非常激進的激進主張者激進主義者但是我非常推崇他這句話您應當有讀過這應該是法律人的金句也就是my politics would be must be have to becompletely separate from my judgment |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
25178.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
25192.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我個人的政治判斷我縱使有我的政治思想我有我個人的一些偏好主張但是完全會與我在專業的法律的判斷上是完全必須分離的 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
25193.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
25220.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
這就是我剛剛說的我們要選擇的不是一個百分之百聽話的大法官所有的主張跟民進黨執政黨或跟吳斯堯一樣的大法官我們要的是您可以彰顯您的法律專業在每一個案件的判斷上你可以去有獨立判斷的空間而社會或是國會就要給予我們的司法人員這樣子獨立判斷的空間您非常同意嗎對不對好那下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
25221.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
25228.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
而當中一個很重要的基準就是客尊憲法左邊呢是我當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
25230.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
25254.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
擔任立法委員我宣誓的誓詞每四年一屆當我有幸連任我一定會對著國旗來宣讀我的誓詞於是以製程恪遵憲法效忠國家代表人民依法行使職權不徇私舞弊不營求私利不受受賄賂重點來了不干預司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
25255.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
25278.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
就是每一個立法委員在宣誓的時候我們向國人對著憲法的宣誓我們絕對不會用政治力去干預司法同樣的如果您能夠擔任未來的副院長您的誓詞當中也一樣萬本歸宗我們要克尊國家的憲法大法官是憲法的守護者下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
25279.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
25293.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
只是非常遺憾這一屆的立法院組成一年半基於憲政機關平等相違的權力分立的原則卻被立法院大幅的強害了 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
25295.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
25318.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
禍害了也就是不斷的去彰顯一個國會最大國會優位的思維反映在立法院不管行使人事權預算權乃至於法律案都讓各個憲政機關的憲政忠誠義務沒有辦法去煽驚所以我們絕對不容司法受到政治的干預 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
25320.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
25348.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
我們不容司法受到政治的箝制我也希望您有這樣子的背膀面對任何的政治的威嚇我們都要能夠挺住因為我們客尊憲法而憲法告訴我們沒有誰比較大平等相為的憲政義務大家是平等的所以下一頁我為什麼說這是內憂外患的一個時期我們碰到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
25349.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
25360.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
現在非常險峻的在野黨對國家並不忠誠對憲法並不忠誠對人民並不忠誠他們一再的挑戰司法也一再的去挑戰憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
25363.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
25380.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
違憲有兩種一種是維護憲法但他們偏偏選擇了違反憲法而沒有司法迫害我們這麼多年來做司法改革我們都希望司法透明公開公正獨立的審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
25381.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
25401.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
我們都不容現在的進步台灣法治台灣有司法迫害的形式但現在在台灣的政治權發生的是迫害司法的這種作為我想看看就人事權的部分這是史上延宕最久 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
25402.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
25418.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
不管是2024年大法官的同意群的行事延宕了95天2025年總統再次提名到現在也延宕了74天我非常期待這一次能夠順利行事不要再讓我們的司法單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
25419.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
25440.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
最高的司法院沒有辦法如常運作下一頁剛講的是人事權被杯葛被延宕了更嚴厲的挑戰就是立法權來強害司法權然後呢有非常多的違憲法案這邊都是我們已經具體的去申請釋憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
25441.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
25469.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
但您放心 我不會要求您對每一個議案來表達你認為它違憲與否我說了 我不會像黃國昌這樣我們不是用政治力去壓迫每一個被提名人 被強制的表態我也不會因為你認為哪些法案違憲或不違憲來去貶抑了或去左右了我對您的法律專業的尊重跟判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
25470.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
25483.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
我希望是這樣因為憲法法庭是一個專業的組成而事實上這些政治議程上的釋憲案只佔我們所有憲法法庭受理的釋憲案的比例非常低 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
25484.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
25504.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
一般百分之九十八九十九都是人民的申請案他並沒有政黨意識只有1%2%是可能涉及憲法機關當中的權力分立的問題所以我們再次呼籲在野黨的委員不要因為這些政治 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
25505.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
25530.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
在可能在對立或對壘的釋憲案的政治判斷來左右影響他對於大法官人事同意權的行使因為這些案子只有2% 1%你們的專業應當更要用在98%的人民權利義務的申請案您同意吧是好那我們有很高的共識下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
25532.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
25556.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
另外也非常不幸的是非常多的政黨跟政治人物不斷的鼓動民粹去就個案來包圍司法機關您作為司法從業人員您認為這樣的行為要被譴責還是應當節制還是可以容忍我覺得應該要給司法獨立審判的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
25557.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
25587.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
而且這是違法的規範司法為什麼司法機關是作為極有的禁制區就是為了讓司法從業人員能夠獨立判斷不受民粹跟社會輿論的影響下一頁而更讓人可異的在演立委甚至去盲挺對於我們司法人員的安全跟權益造成侵害的這種暴力言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
25588.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
25611.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
不論是透過肉搜、獵巫、公審或威脅都造成我們守護司法人員沒有辦法做到我們要守護司法人員您作為可能的司法院的副院長、被提名人您怎麼給我們司法人員一個喊話、一個支持、一個鼓勵不受這樣子的威嚇 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
25613.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
25632.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
司法院永遠是大家最堅強的後盾我們捍衛審判獨立以公正公平法院為審判的核心思想永遠不會變對 我們要守護司法人員而不是放任縱容他們受到社會的霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
25633.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
25653.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
下一頁剛剛有委員當然會focus在法庭直播我想難得看到的審檢辯學還有醫事鑑定的團體跟民團對於急救章沒有討論倉促通過的法院組織法同聲反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
25654.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
25673.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
我更反對把一個重要的司法制度的改革作為政治交換的籌碼很遺憾就發生在立法院半個月前所以說對於法庭直播這件事下眼無論如何即便在朝野協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
25674.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
25695.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
的階段因為這個案子是委員會沒有討論近乎二讀最專業該討論的司法法治文會沒有辦法針對法院組織法法庭直播的部分來進行深究探討只能夠在韓院長主持的朝野協商短短的讓司法院的代表副秘書長表達大概兩分鐘左右的時間司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
25696.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
25720.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
一直持保留跟反對的態度因為現在配套沒有做足倉促上路會造成很多嚴重司法人權侵害的後果但是無論如何惡法通過了惡法易法啦您認為未來如何在這個惡法上路之後您會鼓勵或者是期待行政院提醒復議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
25723.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
25745.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
行政院是不是要提復一是尊重他的職權所以如果說復一也是會輸了坦白講在這個國會生態當中復一案也完全沒有理性討論的空間但是未來如果這樣子的制度就是被迫上路他也已經被迫上路你們作為一個制度要去做很多配套的這個司法院你們該如何來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
25747.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
25774.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
據我所知司法行政廳的幕僚他們已經開始在草擬司法相關的執法那要盡可能對於我們擔憂的司法人權的傷害對於訴訟當事人他自己全力的保障絕對不能被剝奪更不容透過這種直播的方式來造成全民公審的負面的影響他真的非常的可怕好最後下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
25775.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
25792.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
我其實後面有很多對於我們司法院的內部的挑戰我就非常簡單的跟您分享我的觀點我們一定要為司法人員減壓包括增補人力包括減少案源包括防度濫訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
25793.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
25811.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
加速推動訴訟外的紛爭解決的機制也包括要導入AI的科技來協助我們的人員分擔還有對於司法人員的心理調適的假期其實我非常的開心我讀了您的書面報告大概您都有提到了下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
25812.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
25833.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
司法人員呢20年還補不齊我強力的主張跟要求跟期待我們現在需求人力還有5536位真的20年也補不齊下一頁所以我期待如果您能夠容認我們未來司法院的副院長無論如何要發揮您過去在國民法官法的時候您跟社會溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
25834.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
25863.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
您跟國會遊說很有經驗您也要強化跟行政院的人事部門來針對總原額法的修法來突破一萬五千人司法人員上線這個您可以promise努力去做是的我一定努力好那下一個許宗麗前院長的未竟之功也就是如何能夠來落實這個訴訟程序金字塔的制度讓一審二審不要翻來覆去來來去去造成司法資源的浪費對於訴訟當事人他也疲於奔命 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
25863.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
25890.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
當然對我們的司法人員他永遠在做同樣的routine的工作對於司法的效能跟品質沒有提升所以說下一頁我具體的這裡是反映出來這幾年我們的案件大量提升就您的報告也提到十年間司法總體收案量增加將近三成而未結的案件量增加百分之一百一十一所以呢下一頁我期許您落實二零一二一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
25891.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
25918.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
立法院修訂完成的民事訴訟法要對於濫訴的部分該駁回該裁定就要支持法官勇敢去做不要基於害怕考積你要支持啊不要因為這法官擔心他如果駁回了人家的這個濫訴的案件然後會影響他的考積這個部分你可以承諾來具體達到嗎法律的規定我們一定支持好那在下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
25919.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
25929.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
那你們是不是同意你能夠加速在上任之後來制定調解法針對這個ADR的制度來解決這個案源過多的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
25931.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
25956.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
這個是大家一個都相當同意的用訴訟外解決紛爭的機制然後現在也是一直在推不只是民事訴訟刑事訴訟也有還有家事我期待你們可以加速未來立法院有了新民意的立法院也能夠來支持最後導入科技我們過去所上路的智慧化裁判草稿自動生成系統似乎受阻了是不是還會強化來推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
25958.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
25965.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
這個部分在有一次司法院的研討會上有討論就是AI的部分到底要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
25970 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
25991.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
我知道它有爭議 執行上面有個法律問題但是畢竟這是水中科技來取代的任命有解不凡 我想司法院不要放棄行令最後一項我可以直接主持提到也就是我們的心理調試下我已經成功爭取所有的工作人員能夠獲得一年三天的 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
25992.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
26019.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
我希望未來的執法人員高壓的執法人員也能夠來適用他們的盛情調治期待你上來之後努力來追蹤他們我們一起加油如你所說的要建構獨立公正專業效能的執法我們一起努力我們一起領域很多外部不當的政治家作為一個凡人要有背包 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
26022.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
26039.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
好謝謝謝謝謝謝吳斯堯委員的詢問也謝謝被提名人的說明謝謝請被提名人喝口水 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
26049.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
26056.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
好接下來我們請登記第五位翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員詢問完畢之後我們將會休息十分鐘翁委員請主席好在此有請被提名人再請被提名人說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
26077.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
26101.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
蘇法官您好您這次被提名為大法官和司法院副院長這兩項重要的職位那麼被提名為大法官我想最重要的職責就是直施憲法的解釋扮演憲法守護者的角色那麼另外一個位置也很重要這是要去領導司法院和所屬的法院以及相關的司法人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
26102.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
26123.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
那么建立起司法独立以及公平审判的工作环境以及制度那在您今天的报告当中本席也拜读过了也提到就说您也知道就说现在人民对司法改革最深的期望就是希望有一个独立公正专业而且有效能的司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
26124.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
26135.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
可是我想今天在此之前已經很多委員有提到其實這些年來人們對於台灣司法的信賴度一直都是偏低 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
26139.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
26168.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
根據很多的民意調查然後甚至學術機構的調查其實台灣民眾信任法官會公正公平審理案件的比例大概就是差不多百分之二十百分之三十左右那麼在最近的TVBS的民調當中也針對賴清德總統他就職週年各項的施政表現來進行民調結果沒想到最後一名竟然是司法改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
26170.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
26194.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
說實在話看到這樣的民調我自己身為法律人我也感到非常的痛心這代表就是這麼多年來甚至在蔡英文總統當時口口聲聲的說要大力的推動司改但是沒有看到有任何的明顯的成效我不能說沒有成效而是真的沒有明顯的成效所以在這邊我想請教您您自己本身擔任法官超過30年 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
26196.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
26223.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
您怎麼看待台灣的法院不被人民信任的這個問題基本上我覺得司法它就是比較它不是一個容易去討好的一個工作就是譬如說我們的審判會有判就是有一半的人會輸或者是刑事案件是把被告關到監獄裡面去所以基本上它是一個做處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
26225.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
26243.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
或者是判別人輸贏的這個角色他比較會有一半的人是不滿意的這是有可能但是呢人民對司法的這個鞭策跟他們的他們的感覺他們的信賴感我覺得這個是我們一定要去去重視並且要不斷的去努力了我剛剛有特別講過早期我們是在追求審判獨立 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
26244.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
26272.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
现在我们追求的是司法为民所以要以民意为依归要以人民的感受为感受好谢谢贝提米人的回答本身要这边强调就是整个台湾的司法的法治系统我们是效法日本跟德国当然近些年来也参考不少美国的法治我相信您一定知道日本的国民跟德国的国民对于他们的司法的信赖度有多高 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
26273.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
26302.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
德國的國民信脈這個德國的司法系統的滿意度是高達七成八成但是我們台灣這個形成這麼多年而且這個不同的不同界的司法院長也都大力的推動司改但是這個司法信任度是美下玉礦那我想對一般人而言其實評價司法公正其實最簡單的方式就是看到底司法有沒有雙標是不是法律之前人人平等 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
26303.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
26315.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
是不是王子犯法與庶民同罪我覺得這是一個非常簡單的指標您自己擔任刑庭法官多年您過去曾經有遇到過有庭審的案件嗎庭審 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
26318.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
26335.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
停止审判的案件几乎没有几乎没有除非是当事人生病很严重那种所以你自己本身在过去30年的审判的生涯当中你没有遇到过停审的案件当事人生病了他没有办法进行诉讼这种情况有 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
26335.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
26357.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
那大概最長是庭審多久時間庭到他的身體狀況可以所以我們大概會定期的去函詢醫院大概平均呢所以你們會定期的也會去見數不多對見數不多好那我在這邊跟您講台灣其實有出現一個大概舉世無雙的一個案子就是有庭審超過十年的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
26358.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
26382.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
甚至本席去跟剿政署那邊調資料還有人保外就醫超過二十幾年的那麼為什麼會有這樣的一個情況我想陳水扁的案子您應該非常清楚他從2015年開始就申請保外就醫那麼2015年的5月13號他就申請裁定停職審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
26383.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
26396.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
但是在這個案子因為當時是這個犯了洗錢罪那這個案子就去依託多年那北院何怡婷在去年5月20號就認定陳水扁犯的這個洗錢案的追訴時效已經過期 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
26398.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
26424.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
那麼所以就判陳水扁免訴那當然現在這個案子還在上訴當中那麼最新是現在高院已經也受理有完成分案了還要再針對到底是不是免訴的這個議題再繼續進行審理可是您知道嗎陳水扁到現在還有幾個案子是庭審當中這個數字我沒有去特別記現在還有三個案子還有三個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
26425.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
26454.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
所以为什么我刚刚讲就是说人民对于司法会不信赖以陈水扁这个庭审案来讲就可以知道有哪一个台湾人民这个可以像陈水扁这样的一个生龙活虎然后常常在外面演讲趴趴躁的一个受刑人可以庭审这么久而且甚至有一个案子都已经庭审拖过这个16年的时间然后竟然被判免诉那接下来的三个案子呢是不是也一样会拖过去 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
26455.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
26464.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
所以您未來假設有幸能夠成為司法院副院長您要怎麼去改變這樣的情況能夠讓人民認為說其實司法不是雙標不是遇到權貴就轉彎 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
26468.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
26491.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
法院会裁定停职审判应该就是有依据的比如说有医生出具的证明等等的那因为这几个案子现在都还在细数中所以我们就细数中的案件我们就先不评论好我想在这里我就是提出这个案子要让这个被提名人知道为什么人民对于司法不信任这就是一个活生生的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
26492.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
26509.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
好那接下來呢我要再講的就是賴靖德總統他日前也講有提到就是在五五憲朝或是1946年所通過的中華民國憲法台灣沒有派員參加請問這句話是符合歷史的史實嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
26511.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
26533.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
這個部分是總統的發言就是他應該有他自己的依據那我們也不辯評論但是這個是不是事實台灣是不是真的沒有支線代表去當時台灣省沒有派支線代表去參加支線據我在網路上面看到的就是有不同的說法或許利用這個機會大家就是會去找出相關的史實來進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
26535.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
26559.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
我觉得是还不错的机会可以讨论您接下来就要身为司法院副院长的提名而且要当大法官您要了解制宪的历史明明就是台湾当时就有审议会就选出制宪代表然后参加南京的制宪 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
26560.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
26573.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
那您才說這個有不同的意見我在這邊我真的覺得很不可思議在這邊的話我希望你要能夠了解這個就是事實台灣省當時就是有派出制憲國民大會代表去參與制憲的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
26575.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
26597.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
這就是事實賴清德現在今天他說錯話他不更正道歉就算了但是您作為一個副院長的被提名人同時大法官的被提名人竟然連我們的制憲史都不清楚這個本性感到非常的這個訝異那接下來我要再請教您賴清德總統曾經說過中華民國憲法是災難這句話您認同嗎中華民國憲法是我們要守護的對象是所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
26604.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
26630.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
即便它可能有些不完美的地方但是我們還是要全力守護中華民國憲法所以在這樣的一個情況之下我想請教就是說因為作為大法官作為憲法守護者解釋憲法當然要重於憲法而憲法涉及到國家定位的問題請問在中華民國憲法的架構底下目前是如何去界定兩岸關係您如何去界定兩岸關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
26631.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
26658.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
憲法裡面規定說兩岸關係是由就是另一法律定制在徵修條文第十一條是另一法律定制所以我們後來才有這個兩岸關係條例的訂定那兩岸關係條例要怎麼訂定因為它比較涉及到很多的方面所以我們是尊重好不好意思打斷您的話那簡單來說就是目前兩岸關係到底是兩區關係還是兩國關係這個是關於這個政治問題跟統治行為並不是大法官解釋的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
26660.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
26681.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
我感到很訝異蘇法官這個事這麼清楚就定定在我們中華民國憲法還有兩岸人民關係條例裡面的規定您竟然說這個是屬於政治問題這不是政治問題吧這是非常單純的憲法問題跟法律問題在國家統一之前中華民國憲法就已經明確的講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
26683.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
26704.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
自由地區與大陸地區在兩岸人民關係條例你也是講台灣地區與大陸地區連這樣子的基本的這樣的概念您都不敢不敢說不敢去認同我們現在的國家定位嗎不是 就是法律的規定我們一定是遵守的是 所以你認為我們是不是屬於一國兩區的憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
26709.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
26718.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
憲法並沒有這樣的一個憲法裡面現在概念就是中華民國憲法但是我們涵蓋大陸地區跟台灣地區就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
26720.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
26741.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
關於領土的部分確實大法官曾經有一個解釋說是我們不解釋就是我們不介入這是事先實務這個我真的是感到很要你連這樣子的一個簡單的命題你都可以很怕會得罪賴清德所以你不敢承認我們中華民國憲法現在所涵蓋的就是大陸地區跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
26742.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
26768.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
跟自由的台湾地区好那接下来我再次问就是最近呢这个有出现了一个新名字我们过去在讲立法院所制定通过的法案一般民众可能会讲我们这个是不是属于民生法案改革法案国安法案等等那么或是有些人称所谓的福国利民法案但是最近赖金德在团结第三讲当中他提出了一个新的类型叫做政治对抗法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
26769.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
26790.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
並且請大家看看現在在在野立法院所通過的法案到底有沒有是福國利民法案還是政治對抗法案所以我想請教您您認為什麼樣的類型的法案是屬於政治對抗法案我對於總統所提的這個政治對抗法案沒有了解所以他的這個團結三講你到現在也還沒有去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
26791.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
26809.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
就是就政治对抗法案的部分我没有很清楚好那我接下来我就请教你以下几个法案你认为是福利法案是属于福国利民法案还是政治对抗法案首先军人待遇条例的修正我们这次修正军人待遇条例增加志愿意和义务意的加持待遇你认为这是 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
26810.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
26833.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
民生法案是有利于军人的法案吗属于福国利民法案吗还是属于政治对抗法案这个我觉得它就是一个三读通过的一个法案然后对军人是有利的那警察人员人事条例我们这次也修法提高警校人员的月退所得替代率这是福国利民法案还是政治对抗法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
26835.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
26847.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
我跟剛剛答案是一樣的跟剛剛一樣的那柴建收支劃分法的修法調整中央與地方的稅收分配的比例這是對抗法案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
26848.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
26871.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
這個會涉及到權力分立垂直分立的部分那因為我自己沒有財政的背景所以如果委員要詢問的話我會再去了解另外憲法訴訟法的修法提高大法官的開會人數門檻和做成違憲判決的評議門檻這樣的修法是政治對抗法案嗎要看怎麼定義什麼叫政治對抗 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
26873.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
26897.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
這是賴清德總統他所提出的他認為我剛講這些法案都是政治對抗法案甚至連公職人員選罷法修法連署人要附上身份證影本這也是叫做政治對抗法案所以如果說這些都是叫政治對抗法案的話那麼大法官在面對這些政治問題的時候您認為是不是應該要自治退縮而不宜介入審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
26899.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
26913.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
確實到法官在面對政治問題的話就之前的釋憲的實務是認為政治問題不要介入政治問題政治解決是的那麼謝謝您在剛剛說明賴慶德總統很清楚的把剛剛那些法案都視為他是政治法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
26914.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
26939.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
現在是政治法案涉及政治問題我希望大法官之後在審查到底這些案件要不要受理的時候應該要注意這些屬於政治問題大法官應該要自治節制不宜介入審查接下來我還要再請教您您在過去長年審判生涯當中您曾經判過死刑嗎有大概有幾件死刑案 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
26942.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
26967.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
就是如果是主審的是一件如果是陪席的也有有一些已經因為太久了解大概就是大概也反正也不多嘛那就是評判法官的身份您個人的立場是支持廢死嗎我剛剛有回答過就是說廢死就是他不應該是一個非黑即白的問題對好然後我就是站在法官的立場就是我是根據法律還有證據來做判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
26969.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
26970.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
對於憲八就是剛剛有提到說因為我是其中一個案子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
26997.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
27021.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
的陳審法官所以對於現巴就是可能比較不適合發表評論就是就是我們陳審案件的法官對於對於對於這個相關的案件法官的判決都已經做成了也沒有說什麼好這個不適合去評斷的話不過因為呢呃本期在看到您自己的自傳當中啊裡面有特別講到說你非常重視被告 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
27022.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
27050.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
与被害人及家属诉讼权益的横评问题那在这次的113号的宪判之八号的判决里面要求各级法院的合议庭法官一致决然后对于精神障碍或是其他缺陷者不能判处死刑那么即便是发生在判决之后或是等待执行期间也是不能够判决死刑那外界普遍都认为说这号宪法判决是严重的倾向被告还有杀人犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
27051.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
27073.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
那你認為這樣的判決符合您對於所謂的要把被告與被害人的訴訟權益橫平的標準嗎?縣八這號判決裡面確實對被害人的部分比較少琢磨在言辭辯論的時候好像也沒有被害人的代表到現場那這個部分我覺得將來如果有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
27074.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
27101.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
或許在其他的解釋裡面可以就在做補強對於被害人的保護我覺得是就是我們大家共同的目標OK好很高興聽到您剛剛的這樣的意見那麼確實這一號判決我認為說之後有機會的話其實大法官還應該要做另外的判決再來做一些補充或是做調整的解釋那麼當然另外一個議題就是說在這次的現判八號現判八 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
27103.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
27131.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
的这个判决里面特别强调有关于法官一致决那这个也引起了很多学界还有民众社会上面的讨论那么特别是对在国民法官的审理案件上面如何的适用因为您刚刚有说这个大法官的宪判之八号解释他的设成不包含在国民法官审理案件但是事实上他的确会造成一个很严重的影响我们这样讲好了如果说今天国民法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
27132.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
27155.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
因為現在整個國民法官的法庭總共是九位六位是國民法官然後三位是職業法官如果今天六位國民法官做了一致判死決定另外的三位職業法官有兩位是贊成判處死刑其中一位是做出不同意判死的投票請問能不能判處死刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
27156.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
27177.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
根據憲判八的意旨就是職業法官三位都要一致所以也就是說等於一位職業法官的否定他就會否決了其餘的八位法官的意見是吧也就是說這一位職業法官他只是擁有龐大的否決權這是不是出現所謂反民主的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
27179.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
27197.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
這個大法官在這個說明裡面他有提到一點就是說這是避免跟其他普通案件的職業法官的判決產生不一致的不平等的狀況因為我們的國民法官的案件也可能會轉軌成為普通就是由一般的法官來審理那就是對 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
27199.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
27228.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
好 謝謝本席是認為大法官當時在做相關的判決的時候根本沒有思考到國民法官案件的問題他也可能不清楚國民法官怎麼投票的那今天做成了這樣子的一個決定然後司法院也跟著附和這會造成就是說到底我們當初推國民法官的目的是什麼不是就希望國民法官能夠實現心中的正義嗎是不是有辦法實現正義嗎不行啊因為他只要被一位職業法官他就被打敗了 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
27229.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
27254.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
所以這個問題是很嚴重的好那接下來本期要再講就是說是剛剛有提到有關於就是其實蠻多人基本上現在對於大法官的憲法判決都有一些批評或是有表達不同的意見您認為這個人民您是否支持人民可以用公投也是用更大的民主的方式來表達對大法官的判決贊同與否的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
27256.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
27282.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
公民投票法它的性質就是在學術上面有人認為簡單來說您支不支持嘛您支不支持人民可以通過公投的方式來表達對大法官判決的意見贊成與否的意見我支持還是不支持因為我的時間快到了公投法所規範是人民的創制跟覆決那就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
27336.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
27344.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
好 謝謝翁曉琳委員的詢問也謝謝被提名人的說明 謝謝請再喝口水 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
27346.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
27351.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
好 报告全员会我们休息十分钟十分钟之后我们请林月琴委员询问 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
27953.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
27955.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
主席 麻煩我們請副院長被提名的那個舒舒爾法官 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
27981.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
28005.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
再請備題名人說明委員好書法官午安國民黨民眾黨一再論述人民不相信司法但本席的經驗是人民有爭執的時候都習慣相互提告把仲裁權交給法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
28007.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
28024.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
這是相信司法的表現所以您認為國眾兩黨說的是事實嗎我必須這樣說就是我們這幾年的案子一直在增加事實上也代表了另外一個含義是人民信任司法他要把他的糾紛把他的身家財產交給法院來做判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
28030.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
28050.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
您過去呢積極參與我們的司法改革也致力於刑事相關的修法跟國民法官的制度在你的經驗裡面也可以看到您對人權保障和憲政的意識的重視那外界呢對你有很高的期待希望你可以延續我們國家對人權價值的重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
28051.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
28069.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
所以请问你过去的经验比较多事上是刑事的审判也推动很多刑事相关的修法像是刑事诉讼法的修订你认为这些经验对你未来担任大法官工作的优势是什么为什么国家要把这个职务托付给你 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
28069.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
28099.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
是的,過去刑事訴訟法的修法基本上都是跟憲法息息相關,因為我們說刑事訴訟法是小憲法,是一個憲法的策正儀,它裡面所提到,像我剛剛所提到的包含被告的強制辯護權或是他的越卷權,都跟他憲法16條的訴訟權有關,那跟羈押有關的修法是跟憲法第8條有關,所以相關刑事訴訟法的修法基本上都是跟憲法相關的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
28101.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
28125.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
那另外就是我相信對於大法官的職務你應該都事先有些規劃所以請問您上任之後有哪些工作是你任內要達成的目標我希望可以這一個就是加強被害人的保護剛剛我們一直在強調這個被害人的權益是要被保護的然後在這個還有如何加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
28126.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
28140.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
就是被害人保護其實在我任內已經通過了被害人的訴訟參加然後他在法庭上面的隱私還有在法庭上面如果他要做隔離的話相關的措施我希望可以更加的落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
28142.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
28166.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
那另外的話是法官的這個訴訟的就是案件的壓力實在太大還有司法人員那我們整個法院的這個人才的流失非常的嚴重我希望可以有機會來實行我們剛提到的這個司法檢壓的工作那在你報告也提出來說要建構專業有效能的司法那你怎麼建構這專業有效能的司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
28167.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
28190.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
我有特別提到說希望可以重視法官的審判經驗因為法官的審判經驗的累積是非常重要的它也是一個國家審判文化的重要的基礎所以我希望可以透過對於審判的尊重還有專業知識的加強然後讓法官可以更專業譬如說統一法律間接或者是精緻量刑等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
28191.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
28216.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
但你也提到司法要減壓來穩步向前那你怎麼去做到司法減壓司法減壓其實它不是一個容易的工作是因為我們並沒有太多的資源重新投入那就我們現有的人力跟物力我們除了去做盤點之外那我們當然希望可以這個就是譬如說在制度面我們要防止爛數然後要推動這個ADR |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
28217.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
28237.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
就是這個訴訟外的紛爭解決的這個機制那我們有很多退休的法官或者是憂鬱的法官他們願意回到法院來擔任調解委員在第一線來幫我們做這個訴訟外的紛爭解決那我覺得這是值得鼓勵的那另外像這個AI的這個應用的工具可以幫法官來做一些這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
28238.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
28260.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
就是減少重複性的技術性的譬如說筆錄或者是副表等等的我們可以研究讓它更簡化一點更重要的你也有提到說要連結國際來做司法交流因為的確數位時代各種法律爭議無遠弗屆跨國存在那你要怎麼去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
28261.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
28281.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
我會提到這個特別是這個譬如說我們現在很注重的打詐打詐跟洗錢他其實都是涉及到其他國家的那我們希望跟這個其他國家的法官可以交換經驗然後知道說他們他們國家在面對相同問題的時候是怎麼處理的我們可以累積我們自己的專業能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
28284.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
28311.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
去年十月底那司法院院長跟副院長還有另外五位大法官屆期滿那目前在任的大法官只有八位可是去年立法院通過了憲法訴訟法修正案那提高了憲法法庭做成判決跟暫時處分裁定的門檻變成至少要有十位大法官來參與評議而且要宣告違憲的話至少要九位大法官同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
28314.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
28332.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
今年1月25號生效可是現在只有8位大法官等於憲法法庭是停擺的那憲法法庭事實上是台灣憲政體制的最後守門員要有足夠的大法官憲法法庭才能夠恢復運作你過去曾參加司法院的釋制第665號第775號 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
28335.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
28362.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
的釋憲說明會對憲政秩序跟我們的憲跟裁判的憲法審查都有研究所以目前憲法法庭受理的案件還有385件是沒有結案裡面有98%是人民的申請案如果這個大法官缺額的現況持續下去的話是否已經是構成我國憲政危機而且影響到人民的權益所以請問一下你有什麼樣的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
28363.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
28385.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
跟委員報告如果我們從憲法訴訟法施行111年開始一直算到113年期間新收的案件有6867件那我們來看這個申請人的身份到底誰來申請呢如果是人民申請的案件有6805件最多他佔的比例高達99.1% |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
28387.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
28401.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
就是說憲法法庭所受理的案件有99%是人民來申請的人民申請的是有關於他們的權益保障的他們基本人權的過去我們透過大法官的解釋就列舉的就是憲法第22條 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
28403.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
28426.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
列舉權力的部分包含人格權 隱私權原住民的文化權跟身份認同權我們都是用這樣的方式來做權力的保障假設我們沒有辦法開憲法法庭的話人民的99%的申請案件可能就沒有辦法來解決我看到憲法法庭的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
28427.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
28450.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
專案的統計的分析他提到說這三年來憲法法庭的他做成實體判決裡面申請人是人民的佔了75.9%就是將近76%的案件都是跟人民的基本權利有關所以憲法法庭就保障人權的部分確實扮演非常重要的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
28451.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
28473.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
相信因為你也是很重視人權的尤其這事實上是公民的權利因為這樣子的停擺可能影響到很多人蘇法官你在過去也擔任司法院的刑事廳長期間大力主導了推動國民法官的心智現在國民法官法施行已經超過兩年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
28473.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
28486.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
整體來說雖然現在國民法官起訴的案件還不是非常的多但增加的速度非常快去年的起訴案件數比前年提升大概60%那審結的案件數成長了4倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
28490.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
28505.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
但是在國民法官法上路之前跟之後都有法界人士提出來說檢辯雙方在這個制度裡面資源跟力量都是不對等的問題為什麼這樣講因為檢察官背後是國家組織辯護人卻是單打獨鬥的個人而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
28508.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
28531.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
會流向國民法官法庭的案件大多是屬於強制辯護類型是由法院轉介給法服的那減辯雙方在財力人力等等的資源都差距非常的大那在需要投入更多辯護心力的國民法官案件裡頭那減辯資源不對等的問題會更被凸顯請問一下你認為這應該如何改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
28534.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
28554.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
在國民法官的案件裡面減變的資源不對等在模擬階段其實我們已經有發現所以我們也很希望辯護人這邊可以增加他們的能量所以他們現在可能有些法院有義務辯護人或者是公設辯護人 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
28555.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
28570.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
我們在法官學院特別幫他們開課來做這個增能的這個方面希望他們也可以增強這一部分的能力那那個法律輔助的部分呢也有些律師來投入那希望盡量的能夠讓兩邊的實力可以對等 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
28571.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
28589.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
再續問就是說你認為未來該如何強化保障擔任國民法官的民眾因為過去有些研究如果擔任這個的話有時候他個人的個資保護權益甚至人身的安全保護還有更重要的就是心理健康支持怎麼去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
28591.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
28606.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
謝謝委員委員提到這個心理健康的部分確實在日本他們逼我們先實行他們確實有些他們的叫做裁判員他們裁判員事後他們也是有去做一個法院可能會提供一些心理的諮商 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
28607.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
28626.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
然後讓他們在這個案子審結之後如果覺得有需要的話可以有智障的地方我知道我們很多的法院也在做相同的服務如果國民法官在案件審理期間或是審結之後他們需要這樣的服務他可以跟法院來提出法院會提出一些協助的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
28627.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
28638.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
然後至於說他們的個資跟隱私在審理期間我們都是不公開的就是這個部分是有保障的希望他們可以安心的審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
28639.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
28664.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
是未來希望如果真的有機會上任的時候真的要去注意到這一塊另外在第一期的國民法官判決案的新北市的濟姓婦人殺婦案六名國民法官裡面有五名事實上是男性只有一名是女性雖然不能說性別組成直接影響判決的結果但是在國民法官組成上的多元性跟代表性應該要更被重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
28665.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
28689.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
這一點請問一下你認為要怎麼樣改善好謝謝委員這一點我們在這個草案在草擬的時候其實就有人在討論說我們要不要設定一個最低的婦女保障名額之類的還有就是譬如說原住民是不是也要就是有一個保障名額那這個我們經過討論之後也問了在美國的專家他們認為你讓他能夠亂速的去抽籤反而是最公正的 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
28690.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
28707.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
我覺得未來真的要考慮尤其這種是家暴案裡邊那他不得已去做這樣事情就最後呢事實上判下來真的也是看起來是蠻重的大家都應該都還記得12年前軍事審判法修法廢除我們的軍事 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
28708.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
28723.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
是因為洪仲秋事件引發民眾的憤怒十萬人走上街頭抗議要求國軍改革當時蘇法官你是洪仲秋案的二審的審判長當時你審理之後也表示說希望軍方重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
28724.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
28744.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
中的人權問題不過當時廢除軍事法庭之後法界還是有很多的爭論今年3月耐心的總統因應我們的台海隨時可能發生危機也宣布恢復軍法的一個審判請問一下依據歐美的經驗你對台灣恢復軍法法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
28746.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
28770.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
在專責審理軍人的案件的利弊得失有什麼看法其實是軍事審判並沒有完全廢除他是分平時跟戰時那我們現在的規定是平時是在一般的法院來審理那我剛好在103年的時候洪仲丘的案子上訴到高院是分的第一號案件是在我們那一庭辦的然後就是我們也親身的去經歷到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
28772.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
28799.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
軍事案件確實有他專業的地方那軍事案件要怎麼樣的去設計他的審計制度或者是這個他相關的編制這個大法官的解釋已經有說明他是立法形成自由就是由代表民意的立法院可以來經過討論之後他來決定一個制度但這個制度呢你必須在憲法的原理原則之下譬如說他必須符合正當程序的保障他必須符合比例原則必須符合平等原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
28800.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
28826.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
只要你符合這些原則立法院可以自由的來設計制度我們給予立法院最高度的尊重然後當然就是在103年的時空背景跟現在已經有不一樣了需不需要隨著時間的轉移來做調整來修改軍事審判法我一樣的答案是說由立法院經過討論之後來做最好的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
28830.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
28858.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
今年六月底也就是兩個禮拜之前呢我們的法院組織法的修正案三讀通過新增我們的法庭直播的規定那司法院的一直表達反對的意見那其他的司法團體包含我一直好過去工作的團體像兒少婦女團體也都有非常高的反對的一個聲音因為畢竟 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
28859.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
28868.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
很多家暴或者是兒少保的案子並不適合那所以請問一下書法官你怎麼看這個法庭直播的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
28870.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
28889.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
法庭直播現在已經是我們三讀通過的法律我們必須要予以尊重就法律審的部分它是採原則公開 例外不公開可以用適當的方法現在這個司法院應該已經在草擬相關的執法事實審的部分大家的疑慮比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
28889.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
28917.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
那經過這個在最後的修法有一些但書的規定它的範圍有一點縮小但是就是很誠摯的希望司法院在朝你執法的時候要把在公聽會裡面大家所提到的這一些可能的疑慮要緊迫的排除就是譬如說他們擔心會妨礙真實發現然後是不是會有禁用司法害怕禁用司法等等的這個部分可能就是讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
28918.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
28946.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
司法的設計呢可能要注意到這些大家有提過的相關的問題最後就是本席一直很重視兩公約在台灣的實踐那也期望未來在司法體系裡面對被告人被害人那即弱勢群體的權益保障都要能夠持續強化讓司法爭議可以被確保因為通常弱勢的對於司法體系是更沒辦法了解也沒有更多的資源來去對應 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
28948.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
28960.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
所以此外本席也期待司法機構能夠持續的積極的加強跟社會的各界的溝通讓民眾更能理解我們司法改革的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
28961.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
28982.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
並能夠更信任我們國家的司法系統所以關於這兩點就怎麼去加強人權的保障甚至加積極的強化社會溝通那我不知道蘇法官如果你上任的話你未來怎麼去實踐這兩個很重要因為你也本來就很注重人權的保障所以就這兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
28984.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
29007.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
謝謝委員委員特別提到關於弱勢的保障那就是過去呢大家都以為譬如說社會救助法或者是這個這個CRPD等等的這個法案應該怎麼去落實事實上他涉及到的是憲法上的權利憲法上的社會權可以說是憲法譬如說第15條的生存權他這個這個生命權包含這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
29008.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
29029.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
你的生命的這個尊重還有生生命的延續國家要提供一個最基本的這個最最基本程度的可以過人性尊嚴的生活這個是人民的授意權所以呢關於這個社會救助還有這個CRPD相關的金融司法等等的我們都會非常的注意然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
29031.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
29047.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
第二個問題是說那個要如何跟人民溝通這個部分司法院有一個這個專門的部門是在做跟社會溝通的角色那因為社會的議題非常的多那他們用各種各種不同的方式譬如說這個辦司法迎戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
29048.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
29071.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
然後這個或者是用podcast等等的方式用比較人民現在比較新興的這個方式來跟他們溝通那希望慢慢的可以擴散出去讓人民多了解司法好今天就謝謝你謝謝好謝謝林昱月請委員的詢問也謝謝我們被提名人的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
29081.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
29085.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
我再等你喝水我想你需要喝一口水好 謝謝接下來我們請登記最後一位吳宗憲委員請詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
29105.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
29118.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
謝謝院長那我們麻煩麻煩再請貝提敏人請上台說明委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
29123.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
29147.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
謝謝蘇貝提名人我想先跟您請教一下我們就直接切入正題跟您請教就是您在這次報告裡面有提到就是說擔任大法官主要是要保障人權那我想在民主社會裡面其實一個最重要的就是言論自由這個東西其實是一個最基本的人權那在憲法第11條還有大法官會議解釋445還有509號其實都說得非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
29148.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
29172.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
言論自由他是一個人民的基本人權那國家本來就要給予他最大的保障那我想說我先跟您報告幾個狀況就是之前有網友他在Thread上面提到說陳菊走了結果警察在4個小時內就用IP馬上把這個人找出來那而且在晚上深夜23點45分就找到這個女子來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
29173.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
29195.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
那當然大家就說警察抓詐欺就沒有這麼努力就是抓這個卻這麼快好那再來還有另外一個就是有民眾他去罷團的連署站去詢問一句說請問罷免賴清德是不是在這裡結果就被罷團報警然後被警察用社會法送辦當然就有法官認為這個根本不構成 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
29196.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
29216.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
那個騷擾所以我想請教 我想代替網友請教一下以及國人請教一下您是這次的司法院的副院長的被提名人請問像這種連問都不能問那個警察執法有沒有過當有沒有逾越比例原則會不會導致寒蟬消炎 我想請教一下您的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
29217.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
29234.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
謝謝委員提問委員提到的是關於言論自由的部分言論自由呢大法官會議過去的這個事件的實務確實有非常多好的解釋是跟這個有關的那他們也強調說言論自由的重要性它是一個多元的民主社會非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
29234.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
29252.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
非常必要的所以要給予最高程度的保障那在實現實務上我們基本上就是採的這個雙軌理論跟雙接理論不用跟我談這個我想說當人民詢問這些日常的用語沒有傷害誰殺害誰等等就是日常用語 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
29253.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
29267.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
是不是在這裡投票 陳菊是否走了這個東西卻被警察在深夜去帶人卻被警察以社會法送辦這個東西您認為這沒有侵害到言論自由或是警察執行有沒有違反比例原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
29268.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
29285.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
後來是不是法院已經覺得沒有違法我想請教您的意見嘛從法院的標準是我是尊重法官的判決您的意思是尊重法官判決嗎我們法官已經做了判斷我們還是要有勇氣出來說明要對抗這個我覺得我先談一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
29286.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
29306.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
您是司法官三十期我是四十期我想我們念的書大概都是蠻類似就是吳根翁岳昇等等這些大法官他們以前寫的書我們因為級別比較近那我必須講這些人他們給我的感覺就是當他們在擔任大法官的時候他認為檢察官搜索權應該交給院方他認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
29307.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
29327.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
集會遊行不應該讓行政機關事先去審查一些有沒有危險性有沒有必要性他們都敢去衝撞剛時的政府其實這是我對大法官的一個深切的期待就是我希望選出來的大法官是勇於依據憲法而去告訴政府你做錯或是這個法律是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
29328.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
29356.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
我覺得您一定跟我想法一樣嘛我們都期待大法官是有勇氣代表人民對政府發聲的那個人而不是說重要的問題我們不敢回答好沒關係那我想說我再請教您下一個問題柯建民前幾天他講了一個東西他說726大罷免之後要用刑法100條來制裁處理在野黨立委那我想請教您刑法100條的構成要件你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
29357.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
29375.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
是內亂罪那一條嗎沒有就是那個內亂外患罪是內亂罪那一條我個人是沒有聽到就是沒有聽到柯總召有這樣的發言那就是內亂罪基本上已經在實務上幾乎已經不存在我跟您報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
29376.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
29395.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
您畢竟是我們的大學姐 我跟您報告上個會期我就有提出我當年我還是高中生以及大學生的時候我參加野百合學運參加廢除刑法100條的遊行其實我覺得這何其荒謬今天在執政黨的立法院總召出來說要用刑法100條來辦我們這些立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
29397.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
29413.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
當年我學生的時候我站在街頭上陪著林三田老師陪他太太在街頭上面日曬雨淋要求廢除刑法100條有關思想犯的部分我們希望流亡在海外的異議份子能夠回到台灣結果幾年後他要用這個條文來辦我 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
29416.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
29441.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
我心裡是什麼感受當年我為了台灣人民為了這些流亡在海外的黨外分子我們在街頭這樣子為他們奮戰要求修掉刑法100條思想犯的部分今天卻被一個總召拿著據說刑法100條來辦我們這些在野黨的利益我想跟你報告一件事情其實我覺得這何其荒謬回想我過去這段人生我覺得何其荒謬 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
29443.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
29471.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
我們越走越回去了當年我還是個十幾二十歲的學生我就懂得要上街去捍衛這些異議份子的權益結果今天卻要有人要來這個辦我們這些例文好我這邊跟您報告這是讓我覺得何其荒謬啦台灣走到今天這個地步是委員我認同這個不能夠處罰思想反對那我想請問你喔如果有人在網路上面發言說他要顛覆賴清德政府請問一下這有沒有構成內亂罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
29473.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
29500.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
要看他實際的作為您說對了其實我們民主國家是不會去處罰一個人在腦中的一個想法所以我們的刑法100條從過往我們認為不應該有的思想犯到現在我們認為他一定要有實際的作為這個時候才會構成犯罪一定要有強暴或脅迫實施我們才會構成犯罪所以你單純說我要顛覆賴清德政府其實這個沒有構成犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
29501.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
29524.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
不能夠把台灣今天又走回以前思想犯的時代那會對不起這些先賢先烈我過往非常崇拜的這些人我覺得不管是鄭南榮不管是這些我覺得這些人他帶給我們當年那些理想跟著他們走結果今天為什麼會變成這樣所以我想一想我心裡是很難過啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
29526.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
29552.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
其實我市民的過世之前我有幸能夠有跟他遇到過有聊過其實我想今天這些民進黨的信徒真的對不起這些過往的這些人所以我真的只有一個感覺了責任日以遠典型在素行他們帶給我們很多很好的這些過往的例子可惜我們這一輩的人並沒有跟上他們並沒有把他們發揚光大所以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
29553.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
29581.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
過去4.45還有6.44也都寫得很清楚國家不能因為集會遊行團體主張共產主義或分裂過渡唯有就禁止他們團體的設立或者是集會的許可所以其實大法官在過往已經很明確表示說今天除非你的言論達到危險 立即危險的程度否則國家不應該予干涉我也多次講其實所有法律人都很理解一個金句 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
29581.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
29597.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
就是我不同意你的看法但是我適時保衛你發言的權利我想大法官真的就要有這個風骨我不知道您認不認同剛剛委員提到了這兩號大法官的解釋我們都是尊重也遵守的 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
29600.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
29616.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
因為您是國民法官這個制度的推手我想請教您因為這一次我們憲法判決他變成說要求死刑案件法官要一致決那這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
29617.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
29637.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
這個東西跟當時那個國民法官法的修法方向就不一樣了啊 對不對那這樣子變成說一個專業法官他就可以推翻甚至六位國民法官的決定他一個人不同意就可以推翻這個就變得好像賴清德在第三講的說這個不是表決多數就是贏啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
29637.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
29658.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
那這樣子跟您多次對我上YT有看您有談到這個國民法官法的一些想法您說要帶入一些國民的意見民意進入判決中對不對那這樣會不會變成說完全就把您當初推動國民法官的這個概念就不一樣了我不知道您想法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
29660.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
29687.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
有關於113年憲八的這個部分因為他37位申請人的案件都沒有適用國民法官所以他的判決裡面我們不講過去我們講未來不是37位就現有的國民法官法的規定他平易的規定一般的案件的平易的量刑是二分之一那如果是死刑案件的話要三分之二所以在設計上 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
29688.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
29702.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
跟大法官宪判是是是他在設計上面他就是死刑案件要特別的慎重那大法官宪判出來之後有關於這個國民法官案件要判死刑要怎麼判的時候他有特別提到職業法官也要三個人統一 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
29703.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
29708.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
這次中選會莫名其妙沒收了我們立法院議決的這個反實質廢死的一個公投那剛剛王宏威委員也有問你這個問題所以我想我不要再問因為我剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
29721.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
29742.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
王宏威委員在問你這個問題的時候我一聽到這個問題我立刻站起來站在電視機旁邊用力的聽看看您是怎麼回答他因為他問你說這個有沒有違法違憲中選會沒收這個我們立法院預決的這個公投結果呢我在那邊聽了半天你沒有給出答案有或沒有你沒有給出答案所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
29743.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
29765.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
我還是沒有聽到您最後的結論您鬧了一圈之後還是沒說所以我在那邊站了後我只跟我助理說我沒有聽到答案所以還是回到我一開始講的我認為的大法官是要有勇氣跟政府說你不對了你違法違憲了我們期待的大法官世界各國的大法官都是這樣子在設置所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
29767.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
29776.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
我認為就是要擔任一個大法官的人甚至當時自然院副院長其實要有那個勇氣說出結論您一定懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
29777.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
29797.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
中選會沒收立法院的決議這個東西有沒有問題有沒有違反權力分立的概念其實我覺得您都懂但是您剛剛並沒有講出答案我以為我可以說明一下嗎就是作為一個職業的法官我們對於一個問題一定是聽過兩邊的說法聽過辯論之後才會下最後的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
29798.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
29827.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
那您這個提問呢我之前講過說他確實有正反兩邊不一樣的意見如果將來他確實是一個成案的話我們有機會可以聽到兩邊的意見還有法庭自由的意見我們再做最後的判斷我尊重您這個說法但是還是沒有答案還是沒有我心中的答案並沒有得到解答那我再請教你其實我們在講就是你有提到說你們希望說司法是可以被大家所接受的 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
29828.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
29856.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
判決最希望說好的司法是一個判決是大家都能夠接受大家都可以的所以貼近民意的司法這個是被害人訴訟權法治化我們是不是要加強這一塊我想過往你也有這個很多有關被害人的一些論述嘛因為我想喔 憲判八辯論庭他其實有犯一個很大問題就是他從頭到尾他37位殺人犯的家屬都沒有到場陳述 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
29859.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
29874.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
我們看到的是過往很多很多的判決其實大家在乎的是這個人怎麼被殺死沒錯這是構成要件檢察官法官只在乎的是這個人怎麼死的被開幾槍被殺幾刀但是大家都忘了這個人當年是怎麼活的 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
29875.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
29904.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
他是怎麼樣他對這個社會的貢獻他對這個家庭的重要性他對他的太太的重要性大家都忘了所以我們都忽略了被害人家屬他在訴訟上面該有的權益就現在訴訟上面被告有權利告訴人有權利結果被害者家屬是沒有權利他講的話在法庭上面一點用處都沒有法官甚至不需要在判決書裡面提到也不需要在判決書裡面說明都不用也辯解都不用所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
29904.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
29921.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
這是目前我國制度的一個很不好的地方您也有談過這一塊我不知道您記得嗎好 謝謝委員提問關於被害人權益的保障你剛剛提到說被害人在量刑的部分他的意見可不可以進來事實上我們現在的辯論有分兩塊一個是法律的辯論一個是科刑的辯論 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
29922.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
29950.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
在現在的刑事訴訟法裡面就已經有規定在苛刑的辯論要讓被害人來表示意見就是有一個比較新的規定是在那個苛刑辯論的時候讓被害人也進來表示意見那被害人可以有代理人他可以請律師來幫他說他也可以透過檢察官因為檢察官是有對他有訴訟遭料義務他有相當的管道可以表達我跟您說明一下齁其實這段時間有很多死者被害人已經被殺死了死者的家屬來跟我們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
29952.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
29966.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
常常開庭都沒有傳喚他們到他們到場也沒有發言的機會甚至他們的說明也都沒有顯現在判決書裡面我想跟您報告15有這個狀況家屬一再以及律師一再的跟我們反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
29967.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
29990.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
所以我想我簡單的提一下以過往最近這段時間發生幾個例子真的請所有我們的法官檢察官以及大法官們都能夠知道一個點我剛說的不要只聚焦在這個人怎麼死你要想想他當年是怎麼活就像台南那個殺警案兩位警官衝到現場為了維護治安就被殺死他家人是多痛 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
29990.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
30013.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
那土城有一個劉警官他要攔檢那個獨駕的人結果他抓著方向盤被人家拖行到撞死那屍奪獎的那個女老師她只是為了幫家人煮一頓飯去買個東西然後就被殺死或是像新北戈侯案那個被人家砍了七刀他在現場叫那個同學不要再殺他了 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
30014.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
30037.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
一樣照殺所以很多時候我們法律人忘了人性尊嚴這件事情就像邱連功老師常說的你要創造一個富有人性溫暖的司法制度啊他要求我們要重視人性尊嚴啊不管在刑事訴訟或民事訴訟都很重要但是我們今天的法官 檢察官 大法官都忘了這一塊所以我常 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
30038.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
30066.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
再跟家屬談 談到最後我自己心情不好 甚至都流眼淚因為那個痛 即使我不是當事人我都可以體會到但是我們的實務以及我們的法官們都忘了這件事情所以拜託 不管您如果有幸擔任市長院副院長真的還是要積極推動被害人以及他的家屬在訴訟上面的參與權因為目前我國以刑事訴訟來說第三條的當事人其實並不包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
30067.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
30089.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
這些家屬你很清楚嗎那我們是不是我們的司法制度忽略了他們他們來跟我說他們是司法的孤兒他老婆被殺了就他是司法的孤兒這個真的是不應該我覺得制度不能忘了這一塊所以請問您您對於就是推動被害人的訴訟參與權您的想法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
30090.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
30113.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
是的被害人的訴訟參與權是我在刑事廳長任內通過的法案被害人的權益要保障除了司法這一端當然還有很多的包含社政警政還有法務部這邊大家都要配合的地方是很多的如果法律已經有規定而我們的審判書的法官沒有確實做到的話我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
30115.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
30143.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
這部分是您以往的主張我今天提出來也是讓您能夠說明而且讓國人知道你是支持這些被害家族在訴訟上權益的我們將來推動修法也請您那邊一定要多跟我們配合因為畢竟這個訴訟法是司法院在掌管的好嗎最後我想提一個這段時間我們遇到有法官跳樓司法過勞的問題有法官跳樓警察親身書記官過勞時 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
30145.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
30161.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
那當然你說像一般消防員也有工作太辛苦或工作場所太危險等等的然後奪走消防員的性命我想說政府對於基層公務員的權益我覺得是嚴重的漠視那這段時間我也提出了很多想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
30161.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
30183.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
那包括之前我也開了公聽會我也請了高院的法官現職已經離職的法官等等的都來說明講出點出問題在哪而且他們講的都非常的核心那我也多次找民事廳 刑事廳來開會討論那譬如說我們提到了避免刑事化的疏政調查程序以及避免二審完全覆審 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
30184.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
30204.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
這個都是能夠讓我國法官能夠減輕工作量能夠讓訴訟能夠繼續維持一定的品質的但是我等了一年多了我還是沒有等到因為一個立委最多一任就是做四年我等了一年半了我還是沒有等到司法院的任何回應但是那些法官我以前的法官 檢察官的同學們 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
30204.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
30220.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
他還在水深火熱啊他們常常打電話跟我講他們家庭也沒了 健康也沒了沒有時間陪小孩沒有時間陪家人然後我自己很清楚我也是這樣過來的嘛那身體也弄壞了那這樣子的情況下我們要怎麼能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
30222.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
30243.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
要求有一個有品質的裁判呢所以對於簡化司法的工作量您有沒有當作是您一個重要要推動的事情我想這個問題是全國法院檢察官現在都想要知道的我首先要先謝謝委員關心我們司法過勞的問題然後也在司法及法治委員會提出很多的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
30244.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
30267.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
那關於訴訟制度的調整您剛剛提到的是訴訟制度的調整現在事實上形勢的第二省是完全副省的國家已經幾乎沒有了那我們要怎麼樣去調整這樣的一個訴訟制度讓它更公平我覺得是可以討論的因為完全訴訟不經濟你一省要學英美法的交互結論就英美法不是二省再玩一次副省甚至二省就是法律省 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
30268.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
30292.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
那我們今天去二審、四十審再一次複審你讓法官走一樣的程序浪費所有法官的時間浪費當事人請律師的費用其實我一直提這個但是目前都沒有得到什麼回應是不是如果您有幸擔任副院長的話是不是可以幫我們盯緊這一塊全國幾千個法官檢察官都在等待這個改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
30293.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
30314.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
公訴檢察官也很辛苦我想這個很重要然後還有裁判書的簡化裁判書的簡化我知道你們頒布了很多立稿但是目前成效也不大裁判書出來還是厚厚一本每個人還是跟我抱怨裁判書的製作最後我想我要跟你提不管公司部門都存在職場的霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
30315.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
30324.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
我想司法院一定要注意到這個點因為這些法官、檢察官他們的身體跟健康都在抗議了請重視職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
30336.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
30359.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
報告全委員會我們對司法院大法官並為副院長被提名人蘇素娥女士的詢答部分到此為止謝謝我們被提名人今天的練習答詢7月10號星期四上午9點繼續開會審查司法院大法官被提名人蕭文森證存會 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
30361.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
30366.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
零利盈資格之相關事宜我們再次謝謝王玉明委員陪同我們一起來參與審查現在休息 |