| IVOD_ID |
168039 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168039 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-30T12:10:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-30T12:19:52+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d0265d86f2f18c67cb569300b7b9e5e87f5bc5cff238b3be36fc5662b4090cd63582eaed42b6d64d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:10:05 - 12:19:52 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍年度軍事投資計畫與財政負擔能力之動態平衡評估」，並備質詢。） |
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主席謝謝 麻煩請顧部長請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
11.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
37.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 部長好本席一向的立場就是支持我們中華民國不管是國軍 國防部但把錢花在刀口上又買到我們真的合用的武器 設備 系統 裝置這點大家應該是都一樣的想法但今天本席不禁看到有個媒體報導講是說我們的機場安全AI影像分析系統而且那媒體是用很大的很聳動的標題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
54.599 |
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大翻車然後又說我們花了四千四百萬變成是豪華的擺設我想先請教一下部長我想今天上午這樣子應該也都已經有初步做個了解了嘛第一到底這個系統是什麼時候驗收完畢我想請空軍來簡單回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
56.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
76.073 |
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委員好 我是國際參謀長 跟委員報告這個原起還是跟委員報告一下我們在111年11月25號的時候E2K這架兩五動三號機這個媒體都已經寫了我們就是因為這樣所以說才要去編列4400萬來購AI系統那立法院也支持所以說去年的8月 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
76.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
91.637 |
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招標也決標了所以我們大家都理解但我現在要確認的是說什麼時候驗收完畢在12月10號的時候去年12月10號驗收完畢去年12月10號驗收完畢因為我看到媒體報導空軍一直強調跟回應就是已經驗收完畢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
92.597 |
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120.263 |
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柯委員強調的不是驗收部驗收完畢這個事情因為沒有持續的提升飛安持續的提升飛安這是空軍第一次運用這樣的一個系統導入能夠提升飛安降低飛安的機率來減輕人力的負荷所以說我們在去年也是用創新的方式來請廠商設計因為以前從來沒有人這樣做過這個系統它是第一次結合攝影機跟一些大數據演算國外也沒有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
120.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
143.792 |
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國外也沒有沒有那我們自己去想了一個系統然後我們自己去想設計一個方法我們是希望提升飛安提升飛安的這個我們跟美國那麼好美國他們的一些經驗沒有讓我們來做一個分享美國也沒有用AI這個國企真的差異很大他們在跑道上面就是機場裡面連飛撫室就是說在機場裡面監控的人都沒有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
145.493 |
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160.361 |
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國情真的大不同我們在非安的角度上來講是比較嚴謹的今天看到的是我們要為人民的納稅錢來把關所以說我們現在想要強調的跟確認的地方是到底有沒有如同報導這樣講的4400萬好像變成是豪華設備豪華裝備報告委員沒有驗收完畢之後有沒有再出包 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
165.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
191.107 |
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驗收完畢還是有一些狀況還是有一些狀況比在驗收初期少了很多我們到目前為止什麼時候狀況現在狀況解除了沒因為報導裡面還有提到是有我們的群組賴群組的對話賴群組對話是不是真的因為這個會造成今天的梅波事件是因為他在設計的初期因為他系統會警告說期貨架沒放所以人員就要趕快拿起來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
191.747 |
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211.739 |
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那因為他的判斷會因為天氣的不同下雨天陰霾天霧天他會判斷會有誤差所以說我們也是一直在教育這個系統讓他能夠蒐集更多的數據陳班長你這樣講的好像你是廠商的代表我們現在要的是空軍地胸的安全為第一優先順位嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
212.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
241.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你自己剛剛就一開始開宗明義就講說2021年因為跑出跑道的一個事故而造成說我們想要精進這個本席完全理解也同意啊所以我們所以我們現在才這樣就是說現在這個系統有沒有把錢花在刀口上以及能不能實際運用那你剛剛本席問的他在12月10號按照議員標準都已經通過在12月10號已經通過就是就已經通過還是持續粗暴這也是你剛剛講的嘛粗暴有幾個原因那本席剛剛要問的地方是說這個群組裡面的對話是不是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
242.987 |
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259.79 |
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其實裡面有些出包是我們人員不熟悉系統去按錯東西出包的我們的人員也有問題在裡面所以說我們不斷的教育系統也教育我們的操作人員參謀長 冷息怎麼越來越覺得你是在我好像在跟廠商代表講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
262.01 |
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281.848 |
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今天一個系統我們要用結果反而變成媒體報導講是說讓人眼辨識如果說我們這樣依照沒有這個系統引入的時候我們用肉眼辨識人眼辨識可能還不會出現這個問題那今天這個系統來不是增加我們的安全反而變成是我們的人要double check |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
282.108 |
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293.721 |
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要兩倍的時間是AI先系統先判斷了之後然後之後我們人在判斷確認AI判斷有沒有問題那這樣子就變成是一個人做兩份工啦這個我們會再繼續的改善我們今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
296.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
322.44 |
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參謀長我今天就是看到媒體報導我也不知道說為什麼媒體今天報導會再挑今天國防會教委員會有國防部來質詢的但是重點這已經不是冰凍三尺非一日之寒啊那如果說裡面的群組的對話也都是真的我們也看到甚至報導直接就講是說我們有負責的中將還是負責的這個上校直接打電話嚴正的要求系統不能再出這樣的包 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
323.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
344.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們會持續的要求 其實這樣子我是肯定這樣的態度是因為我們付了錢我們就應該把錢花在刀口上就沒有想到不是 那就你今天跟我一直在講你還講到反而是推給我們一直到二月三月都還是有持續請廠商來一直持續的在是嘛 那現在所以說你也承認現在這個廠商設計這個系統到目前為止還沒有辦法百分之百可以運用的良好 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
345.422 |
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364.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以我們原本是希望能夠取代人力我們原本是希望能夠精進安全結果現在變成是沒有辦法取代人力我們的人還要double check那你不覺得這樣子反而沒有把錢花在刀口上嗎所以我們會持續的檢討這個案子因為在整個大數據AI的過程中我們必須要持續的去教育這個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
367.455 |
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394.423 |
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如果說可以出包 連剛剛參謀長都已經承認了就出包完 驗收完之後都還有持續有狀況那驗收他也是怎麼驗收的因為這個系統是第一次我們建置這個系統不管第一次第二次 如果說他沒有辦法上限率合格率沒有辦法那麼大你就不應該讓他驗收啊那以前可以怎麼做 以前都是用人眼辨識 肉眼辨識那你為什麼急著要在去年的時候來驗收 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
396.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
423.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
按照合約是12月2號驗收這不是按照合約你的合約是到今年的年底啊你的合約到今年年底如果說換言之你到今年年底以前驗收都可以但重點在於是我們花了錢怎麼會變成是買到這樣子的一個系統而現在嘉義還在做對不對也是同一個廠商同一個系統是不是嘉義的水上靶場是嘛水溪靶場 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
425.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
434.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
水上水溪靶場是靶場的AI這個是另外一個也是同一個廠商同一套系統同一套系統是那會不會有一樣的狀況我們會持續的檢討是來部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
442.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
456.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本席講了那麼多其實我們都站在的是你要用我們支持你要錢給錢但花錢要買到好東西可以減輕我們官兵弟兄負擔跟提升我們官兵弟兄安全而不是變成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
458.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
472.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好像我們自己 我們變成是我們來幫廠商測試啊剛剛參謀講的這第一次那結果我們幫廠商測試我們拿我們的官兵弟兄當成是試驗品 實驗室等到我們測試良好之後他可以再賣給其他人是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
475.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
487.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所有的AI他都會有要有一個自主學習的一個過程所以我想所以我們現在屏東市場當成是自主學習的實驗場我們給我們的廠商變成是自主學習實驗場我們買的不就是要已經是可以上線的AI作為一個輔助的一個系統那麼他會不斷的進進我們當初的標案講的是我們要的是一個學習的系統還是可以合格使用的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
504.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
531.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就這麼簡單我們的標案書到底是怎麼寫的你四千四百萬如果跟我講是說你們是什麼中研院中科院還在學習還在什麼研發那我不怪你啊但如果說你今天的標案書跟我們講是說你是要一個合格上限的系統那就不應該存在還有所謂的學習啊那個反應是在系統第一次跟第二次驗收不合格的時候我們的操作人員反應的那現在已經大幅的降低這樣的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
535.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
555.095 |
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來啦 部長一次的意外都不應該發生我們現在還沒有意外真的是我們中華民國弟兄官兵福大命大那我是不是可以要求國防部這邊針對這一個部分給外交國防委員會跟本席一個檢討報告可以多久時間可以拿出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
557.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
585.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
看我們大概三個禮拜嗎 三個禮拜 本席等你三個禮拜我再一次強調 這個廠商我也不認識這個報導我是今天看到但我覺得一個報導用一個很嚴厲的言辭大翻車4400萬變豪華設備這對於我們官兵弟兄也是一種羞辱如果說不是事實也要予以駁斥但更重要的是我們把錢花在刀口上這才是我們共同應該要一起的態度以上 謝謝 |