| IVOD_ID |
16803 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16803 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-07T08:30:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-07T13:16:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:46:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6853706b783a533ed9c6425655b8120616f0d5b2c3b93916c3938785acf9504c1ee5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：審查
一、委員楊曜等17人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。
二、委員范雲等17人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。
三、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。
四、委員黃秀芳等20人擬具「社會救助法第二條、第四條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。
五、委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。
六、委員黃捷等16人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。
七、委員蔡其昌等17人擬具「社會救助法第四條、第四條之一及第五條條文修正草案」案。
八、委員徐富癸等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。
九、委員王鴻薇等26人擬具「社會救助法第十五條及第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。
十、委員邱若華等20人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。
十一、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。
十二、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二、第十一條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。
十三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。
十四、委員萬美玲等20人擬具「社會救助法第四條及第十一條條文修正草案」案。
十五、委員林月琴等19人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。
十六、委員楊曜等24人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。
十七、委員馬文君等20人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。
十八、委員葉元之等21人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。
十九、委員羅智強等18人擬具「社會救助法第十一條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。
二十、委員何欣純等17人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十一、委員劉建國等18人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十二、委員林楚茵等18人擬具「社會救助法第十六條條文修正草案」案。
二十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十四、委員邱若華等17人擬具「社會救助法第十一條條文修正草案」案。
二十五、委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「社會救助法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
二十六、委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「社會救助法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十七、委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。
二十八、委員游顥等17人擬具「社會救助法第五條之一及第五條之二條文修正草案」案。
二十九、委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。
三十、委員馬文君等16人擬具「社會救助法第五條之二條文修正草案」案。
【僅詢答】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:00 - 13:16:00 |
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17095.53659375 |
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SPEAKER_14 |
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17099.56971875 |
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17100.44721875 |
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SPEAKER_18 |
| transcript.pyannote[2810].start |
17112.68159375 |
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17140.15409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2811].speaker |
SPEAKER_18 |
| transcript.pyannote[2811].start |
17141.52096875 |
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17152.42221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[2812].speaker |
SPEAKER_18 |
| transcript.pyannote[2812].start |
17153.41784375 |
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17156.92784375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1794.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1804.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好報告委員會出席委員人數已足法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開會請議事人員宣讀上市會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1806.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1813.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第三會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議議事錄時間114年6月23日星期一9時至14時24分6月25日星期三9時至12時21分6月26日星期四9時至16時57分 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1823.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1842.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
地點群嫌樓801會議室出席委員陳委員昭姿等15人列席委員楊委員瓊英等12人列席官員6月23日及6月26日衛生福利部部長邱太元等相關人員6月25日環境部常務次長沈志修等相關人員主席劉兆吉委員建國6月23日報告事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1845.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1870.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項一審查委員劉建國等17人及台灣民眾黨黨團分別擬據老人福利法第48條條文修正草案等二案本日會議討論事項第一案至第三案才綜合詢答經委員陳昭芝代表台灣民眾黨黨團林月琴陳金輝及劉建國說明提案指去由衛生福利部部長說明後 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1871.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1897.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
委員陳昭志等15人提出質詢軍警衛生福利部部長交通部公共運輸及監理司副司長胡迪啟及法務部矯正署主任秘書蘇坤明及各相關主管等即席答覆委員謝榮介楊瓊英及葉元之所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於2週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1897.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1913.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
本日會議由委員劉建國及蘇清泉等五人提出第48條條文修正動議決議一說明及詢答完畢二老人福利法第48條條文修正草案等二案審查完均內容如審查結果並按以據審查報告提報院會討論院會討論時由劉兆及委員建國補充說明不需交黨團協商審查結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1922.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1941.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
第48條照委員劉建國及蘇清泉等5人所提修正動議修正通過討論事項二審查委員及黨團分別擬據身心障礙者權益保障法第53條條文修正草案等11案本日會議由委員劉建國及蘇清泉等5人提出第53條條文修正動議決議一說明及詢答完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1945.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1954.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
身心障礙者權益保障法第53條條文修正草案等11案審查完略內容如審查結果並按理據審查報告提報院會討論院會討論時由劉兆吉委員建國補充說明不需交黨團協商審查結果一 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1962.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1977.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第53條照委員劉建國及蘇清泉等5人所提修正動議通過二通過附帶決議一項討論事項三審查委員分別拟據身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案等23案決議一說明及詢答完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1980.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1994.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
二身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案等23案另則其繼續審查6月25日邀請環境部部長交通部教育部衛生福利部經濟部就因應歐盟管制抄襲懸浮為例pm0.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1996.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2021.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我國空污管制政策如何精進提升保障國人健康安全進行專題報告並被質詢本日會議由環境部常務次長沈志修報告後委員陳昭芝等13人提出質詢軍經環境部常務次長沈志修經濟部能源署代理署長李軍理及交通部公共運輸及監理司司長林福山及各相關主管等即席答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2022.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2040.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
委員廖偉祥及蘇清泉所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員諮詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定通過臨時提案二項六月二十六日討論事項繼續審查行政院函請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2043.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2070.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
及委員分別拟據全民健康保險資料管理條例草案等二案以及審查委員分別拟據全民健康保險資料管理條例草案等五案114年6月9日由委員提出部分條文修正動議共15案本日會議經衛生福利部部長說明由委員陳昭芝等三人提出部分條文修正動議委員王振旭等三人提出部分條文修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2071.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2091.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
委員劉建國 林月琴 王振旭及陳昭芝等4人提出第11條條文修正動議委員林淑芬 林月琴 王振旭 陳昭芝及劉建國等5人提出第25條條文修正動議共4案決議一 全民健康保險資料管理條例草案等7案審查完略處罰案名稱第二條 第12條及第13條 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2093.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2121.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
於第十一屆第三會期第十六次會議一百一四年六月九日審查完畢外其餘內容如審查結果並按以據審查報告提報院會討論院會討論時由劉兆及委員建國補充說明須交黨團協商二本法案調次及援引調次授權議事人員調整相關立法說明授權行政單位提供審查結果照行政院提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2122.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2147.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第一條 第三條 第六條 第十七條 第十八條 第二十三條 第二十四條 第二十六條 第二十七條第四條 第五條 第七條 第八條 照行政院提案修正通過第九條 照委員王振旭等三人所提修正動議通過第十條 照委員林淑芬等四人及委員陳昭芝等三人所提修正動議修正通過第十一條 照委員劉建國 林月琴 王振旭及陳昭芝等四人所提修正動議通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2148.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2167.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第14條照委員林淑芬等4人及委員王振旭等3人所提修正動議修正通過第15條照委員林月琴等21人提案通過第16條第20條第21條照行政院提案修正通過第25條照委員林淑芬林月琴王振旭陳昭芝及劉建國等5人所提修正動議通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2169.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2192.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不予處理委員林業勤等21人提案第22條第23條保留條文第19條第22條保留之修正動議1委員林書斌等4人提出第19條條文修正動議2委員陳昭之陳金輝廖偉翔等3人提出部分條文修正動議3委員陳昭之陳金輝王玉明等3人提出部分條文修正動議通過附帶決議4項宣讀完畢好 請問委員會 上次藝術路有錯誤或遺漏之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2199.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2224.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
沒有,謝謝,那我們意思就確定本會議議程為審查委員、黨團、分別凝聚、社會救助法、不問條文、修正草案等30案那現在來介紹在場的委員及列席官員第一位是陳昭志,陳委員第二位是林月琴,林委員第三位是王振旭,王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2226.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2252.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好 第十位是方雲委員謝謝 第五位是楊瓊瑩委員接下來介紹我們出席的官員衛務部部長邱代元好 政務次長呂健德社會救助及事公司司長蘇昭如法規會參事陳信成長期照顧司長朱建芳 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2254.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2278.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
還有社會保險司代理司長陳真慧心理健康司代理司長鄭淑欣醫事司副司長劉玉清統計處處長李秋彥保護服務司專門委員張靖倫社會疾家靈屬代理署長周道軍中央健康保險署副署長龐一鳴 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2281.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2296.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
市民要管理署檢任計政林蘭玉行政院主計總署公務預算處檢任視察陳淑萍國事普查處專門委員張怡惠財政部互稅署專門委員吳秀琳勞動部勞動力發展署副署長施淑惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2310.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2333.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
身心障礙者及特定對象居委組組長 劉育儀教育部及國際兩岸教育師代理副市長 藍仙倩高等教育師專務委員 郭嘉英技術及職業教育師專務委員 胡士林內政部副政司 檢定市長 蘇志門 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2336.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2361.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
警政署黃志祖副組長黃南山國土管理署住宅發展組專務委員張宇新移民署移民事務組專務委員劉寶明國務部參事汪南君原住民原住民組委員會社會福利署副組長董敬芬農業部農糧署組長陳祺瑞 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2368.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2391.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
畜牧師檢任繼政馮怡月謝謝好漁業署副組長葉進雄農經署副組長勞興榮經濟部水利署副組長傅勝志謝謝文化部文化資...欸對不起這個好交通部公路局主任工程師張恆成 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2394.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2401.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
國安部後勤張某次長室後勤管理處副處長黃文漢國軍退出役官兵輔導委員會舊養護處副處長賀華現在請提案委員來說明提案要旨每位委員兩分鐘我們第一位請范允煥委員來做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2424.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2425.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
社會救助法大幅修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2447.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2465.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
已經是15年前的2010年了那在第十屆的時候就上一屆我就率先提出我們要全盤修法那也跟我們民間的團體社會救助法修法聯盟一起提出民間版的社會救助法修法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2466.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2492.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
去年二月底也就是我們這一屆立委剛上任的時候我也立刻提出我的社救法的修法草案那過去兩年兩度質詢行政院長那很感謝陳建仁院長當時就承諾要推動修法也要求衛福部要提出版本那很高興社救法今天終於在委員會排審雖然還沒有看到衛福部的版本那我的版本呢主要就是跟民間團體共同討論有六大想解決六大問題第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2496.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2519.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
现行的第五条家户合计规定已经不合时宜那我的版本修正同一户籍会有共同生活的一等亲的直系血亲才会列任家庭成员第二现行第五条之一的虚拟收入推定制度用台湾各职业类别每月经常性薪资核算申请者收入跟事实严重不符 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2520.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2547.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我的版本纳入让申请者自述收入的设计更符合实际状况第三我的版本比照老人福利法第41条在现行条文第5条第3项第9款俗称539条款加入由学者专家对仿式评估案件的审议制度第4现行撤救法的脱贫设计是断癌式的让收入有提升但仍不稳定的弱势者面临立即性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2547.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2566.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
福利奏解那我的版本納入漸進式脫貧目前設就法對無家者定義不明主管機關全責不明我的版本增訂無家者專章修正第17條明定無家者定義並增列就是專章的條文現行的很多個案是多重弱勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2566.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2582.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
譬如受暴婦女、身心障礙者、新住民等我的版本強調看見交織性完善法規、接觸多重弱勢以上六大問題都是因為年久失修制度性讓需要救助的人在不同的地方政府就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2584.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2600.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
夠清楚或甚至忽視下排除在社會福利體系之外我的版本是立法院首部民間版的社會救助法草案會集很多第一線社福人員民間團體專家學者的意見期待我們跨黨派的各位委員能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2601.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2616.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
支持這部民間版本的這六大精神回應現在撤救法的諸多問題真正接住在我們經濟成長率這麼高的情況下真正接住這些國家陷入困境的民眾 以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2636.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2661.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好 我們感謝我們的召委今天排這個議題因為臺灣屏幕差距越來越大再加上我們的社會福利基本法已經公佈所以這時候是應該討論在前年本來就有社救盟提出他們的一個擔憂那衛福部也承諾去年5月就應該送出版本可是至今都還沒有送出版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2663.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2681.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
具體來講的話那我的版本裡邊大概有十項訴求第一放寬人籍合一的規定並認定兩地政府負擔比例什麼意思呢申請人將不需要回到戶籍地的申請而就近於實際居住地來做申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2682.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2701.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
並且規定對戶籍地與居住地兩個縣市政府各自負擔責任那第二放寬家庭應計算人口氛圍把通過申請的條件降低也就是說沒有跟申請人共同生活不受申請人撫養的家屬以及經法院判決免除撫養異物的家屬不論貧富這些家屬的財產 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2707.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2734.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
将不影响到申请人的资格第三创设制数收入跟查核机制遇到非典型就业难以证明收入的状况由申请人自行陈述政府若有怀疑便去查证将不再预设每个人都能拿到基本工资第四认定没有就学就应该要工作的年龄至16岁调高到18岁未来将不会 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2735.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2757.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
逼迫未成年人就去就業第五建立不符合申請結果提出異議的程序未來將有法定的申訴管道第六建立階段式的脫貧制度用獎勵的方式鼓勵就業並且按財產增加比例逐步遞減不住金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2757.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2770.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
救助將不再是全有全無第七鼓勵有工作能力的人去就業就業日起三年內的薪水不影響被救助的資格第八25歲以下的貧困青年就學中 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2771.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2799.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
至毕业后一年内的收入都不影响被救助的资格第九除了现金以外增加物资发放的服务让各界一起投入政府的社会救助工作第十以无家者的定义去取代游民并且建立法定的查报安置跟服务规定期待法律跟要与时俱进国家应该更用友善的政策去对待最脆弱的弱势者请各位委员支持以上谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2800.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2804.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 謝謝林委員的提案說明接下來請楊瓊英委員來做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2815.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2844.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
謝謝主席 楊瓊發言朋友委員 楊瓊議員之顏寬恆 廖偉祥等21人有鑑於近年來國內物價持續的在升高那造成實質薪資的倒退購買力的一個下降的困境為了確保經濟弱勢民眾能夠獲得合理且妥善的照顧那先進給付的部分呢所訂的金額應由每四年目前的法律理事每四年調整一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2844.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2863.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
修正為每兩年調整一次以降低物價波動對於低收入戶民眾的衝擊那麼原據社會救助法第11條條文修正草案敬請各位來各位同仁大家來支持因為我們據主計總署所顯示的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2864.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2868.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
110年到112年消費者物價指數CPI的年增率是1.97%2.95% 2.49%那食物漲幅的部分更高他更高達了2.45% 5.66% 4.03%那所以因應了整個今年國際環境競速的一個變化為了確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2888.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2910.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
經濟弱勢的民眾能夠獲得適度一個妥善的照顧呢那現金給付的金額呢應該由每四年來調整為每兩年來調整一次以弱勢憲法保障弱勢民眾的這個精神那也敬請大家來支持 謝謝好 謝謝楊偉的提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2918.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2919.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
接下來請趙志偉來做提案說明 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2925.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2935.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我先謝謝教委今天真的是排除萬難我剛剛才得知就是8個委員會現在只有我們衛韓組正在舉行會議也謝謝我剛剛數了一下大概有將近40位行政官員能夠出席謝謝你們那民眾黨對於這次的這個法案我們的主張也非常的簡單清楚就是在社會救助的部分有關現金的補助那剛剛這個楊委員也提到我們希望能夠從目前的每4年調整一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2954.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2965.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
改變為每兩年調整一次那就是說這個在頻率的部分希望能夠大家支持那另外就是有關這個剛剛委員也提到了就是當消費者這個物價指數累積的成長率到達5%的時候我們也希望有機會再做一次調整就這兩項原則一個是調整的頻率的年次我們希望能夠每兩年調整一次以及要參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2983.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2992.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
消費者物價指數的累積成長率到一個程度之後我們也希望有機會能夠做調整請各位委員予以支持 謝謝好 謝謝趙志偉的提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3000.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3012.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這邊的提案所以我們再做一些補充我想這個社會修正法104年修完之後至今都尚未再進行任何修正所以已經這10年了這個社會變遷速度之快還有相關的這些經濟的情況不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3018.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3042.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
所以我們實在有必要來針對這個社會救助法各項細節來重新來審視所以本期在這邊也提了這個社會救助法不文條文修正草案然後也跟很多委員共計有30個版本所以希望各部特別針對社會救助法的相關草案應該快速的來提出這個行政院版本來對照我們所有委員所提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3042.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3044.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
來做相關的修法改正這部分也特別針對說現在人口移動的現象要進行相關法條的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3055.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3072.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
也必須考量這個目前社會在目前社會外出工作就學等流動的遷徙頻繁但戶籍不一定會隨著遷移那同時目前社會對外出工作就學者要求戶籍遷移實際上也有一定的困難度 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3073.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3096.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
也因此也在這個部分也做了一些調整不應侷限於申請人之戶籍地我們一直想說這個閒政便民然後我們對中低收入跟低收入的認定這基本上的戶籍上的認定就非常的不便民此外這個本法第12條針對低收入戶有特殊狀況者增加補助額度或除了原本年滿65歲懷胎滿3個月以及領有身心證明者 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3100.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3128.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
還有再增加罹患癌症或其他危及生命之極重難寒疾病且另有重大傷病卡折協助患病之低收入也應該可以做相關的減緩負擔所以有這個面向特別要跟各位說明另外針對疫情期間作為借鑒民營增加國家發生嚴重疫情或災害然後其他特殊狀況者 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3130.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3152.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
其他特殊中央市中央集團機關的實施的需要針對中低收入戶提供短期的生活的輔助等等以上我做這樣的補充說明今天有很多的提案委員沒有辦法到來各位也不用擔心因為我們今天要到時候如果要進入主條審查的時候還沒有來得及提案說明的委員我們都會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3153.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3164.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
給各位體驗委員來做說明畢竟今天也遇到颱風的這個突發的狀況但是今天也不會立即排審因為院板也還沒有進來所以請各位委員寬心簡單解釋以上委員會做這個報告接下來我們請衛務部邱部長來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3180.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3204.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好謝謝不好意思有點感冒所以今天聲音會比較沙啞主席、各位委員、女士、先生今天答應第11屆第三會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開群體委員會議審查社會救助法部分條文修正草案本部呈要列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3205.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3232.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
並請各位委員不吝指教一、審查社會救助法部分條文修正草案本部中整委員提案版本僅就共通性意見簡料說明一、委員煥英等17人委員謝一鴻等16人委員黃秀芳等20人委員林耀謙等19人委員何新成等17人委員劉建國等18人委員羅廷偉等16人提案擴大社會救助法照顧對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3234.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3243.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
擴大照顧對象促進經濟不利處境者脫貧自立本部竟表支持為部分服務項目也由各主管機關定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3245.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3271.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
如居住、就業、建立、維持人條文二、委員范瑩等17人、委員黃學芳等20人、委員蔡其章等17人、委員崔柏華等17人、委員萬美齡等20人、委員林立成、林立群等19人、委員何新淳等17人、委員劉建國等18人、委員羅廷偉等16人提案放寬、任期不一者,亦可申請有關放寬、任期不一者 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3272.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3294.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
受選建出國研修或實習之學生必可申請本部盡表支持為考量我國戶籍制度健全中央對政府地方經費補助皆依涉及人口涉算建議由戶籍地審查及補助基礎地可代為修建 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3294.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3322.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
利用協助就近評估及提供服務三、委員幻營等17人、委員邱若驊等17人、委員林立錦等16人、委員劉建國等18人、委員劉廷輝等16人提案放寬工作能力是認定工作能力認定是19歲調整為18歲鼓勵完成學業利用放寬不限是否為獨立撫養子女及照顧兩名以上特定身經障礙者 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3323.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3329.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
病症診室及執理得增加一人每季工作人口本部競表支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3330.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3354.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
而我國義務交易制度完善,建立能以照顧六歲以下的子女作為宽寬對象四、委員林立錦的19人、委員羅廷偉的16人提案不累積學生打工兼職收入及畢業會定期間免累積工作收入為鼓勵低及中低收入而造 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3355.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3369.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
累積脫貧資本就業期間打工兼職收入及畢業後至四年底工作收入不納入家庭收入計算本部競表之詞無委員 換您等17委員 您會請等19委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3371.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3389.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
劉廷偉等16人,委員吳佩義等16人,提案加強無家可歸組織的輔助、安置輔導與支援,為強化輔導皆有、政略機關全走及結合民間單位支援、服務項目、聯繫會等本部競表支持。 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3390.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3406.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
為協助節有就業自立本部與勞動部合作將節有納入特定輔導對象提供各項就業促進、職業訓練及相關經驗為節有未必無家且涉及人權、機制及就業等複雜一體視我稱為無家者須審慎評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3413.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3440.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
6.委員崔鳳等事業委員、委員林瑞謹等事業委員19人提案新增食物給戶專章目前各縣市政府居留辦理食物給戶服務委員建議將食物給戶方式管理應用衛生安全及品質維護、獎勵措施等予以規範本部競表支持7.其他有關生活輔助現金給戶調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3442.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3469.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
家庭不動產不累積之特殊土地最低生活會變動調整有工作能力為就業者設算收入僅累積同居家人財產納入為涉及新住民等僅需審慎評估長節語有關各委員會所提版本之條文請查列實問報告本部曾答應各委員之指教及監督在此淨至細層 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3472.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3497.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
並請各位委員繼續一一支持 以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝邱部長的說明有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄 刊登公報現在開始答詢 做以下宣告一 本會委員尋答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘二 10點30分截止發言登記三 委員如有書面質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3499.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3519.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
請於三位前提出預期不受理四 暫定10點30分休息10分鐘五 本日不處理臨時提案現在請登記第一位委員陳昭珠委員發言謝謝主席 麻煩部長好 請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3526.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3535.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
部長早安,部長你怎麼才感冒?你是不是叫大家盡量不要生病嗎?昨天在比較防疫的中心,衣服不要穿好接觸這麼多人,大概難免了部長,您是經驗豐富的臨床醫師,我想請問,你看到這個圖片的症狀,你知道這個是什麼疾病嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3546.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3549.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
乾險的這個嚴重度他的評估指標我們叫PASI就是用來評估他的狀況或要改進治療改進的一些狀況那主要是根據他的面積 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3564.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3571.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
它的發紅的程度也許厚度脫屑等等情形但是我們現在聽說健保署正在做一個討論要把肝險藥它的使用門檻而且是續用門檻要從50%提高到75%那病友團體非常的驚慌醫師們也非常驚慌據說影響可能高達2000多人我先請教部長你知不知道什麼叫做續用門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3592.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3594.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
因為財務必須控制錢有限所以常常規定他只能用幾個療程或多少的時間可是事實上很多其他的病也是如此到了一個時間治療穩定就叫他下車就是藥就停了 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3609.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3637.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
然後等到他又發作到一個程度才又大家再回來繼續治療這實在是不得不的手法但是這一次事情好像有點大台灣肝腺協會他們自己做了調查現在病友協會都非常的認真他收集了病友不管透過健保或自費的方式他所得的一些經驗他總共回收了303份的問卷那大家你可以看到圖片七成的病友說在停藥後三個月內肝腺的病照惡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3638.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3662.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那有六成的病友說停藥後重新申請用藥就是再續用的申請非常的困難有九成的病友反映藥物減量直接導致他的這個療效大幅的這個下滑那目前也缺乏其實好的臨床證據證明說你減量是可以維持原來的療效所以我想念一些病友的心聲給部長聽不定這些都是病友寫的如果健保藥物在病情好轉的時候停藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3664.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3683.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
等到復發之後才重新申請給付那這對病人無疑是一個他們用的詞他說好像是死刑的煎熬因為好不容易好轉了一些那又可以正常生活但又被迫停藥這是剛剛我跟你講的等待要下一次的這個下車之後再等待續用那他們也說健保要病人下車時施壓健保審核醫師配合這是他們說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3688.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3714.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
所以沈和醫師推薦的理由有的很可笑並有分享說有些理由居然出現說肝腺要靠自己努力不要只依賴生物製劑那最後健保署也把這個責任給沈和醫師不如肝腺是自體免疫疾病他該如何自己控制呢我知道還有藥物光照療法等等但是這都是沒效之後才能轉用生物 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3715.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3737.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
是製劑啊 怎麼會有審查醫師說 肝腺要靠自己努力啊彭副你聽到你有感覺嗎 你現在在負責藥物的部分所以我要講的就是說 目前的健保給付 要求生物製劑生物是進步的製劑 進步 早期的藥品很多療效的問題 副作用的問題 這是個進步兩年後必須強制停藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3739.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3744.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
帶疾病復發達50% Passive 50%以上目前是這樣 才能夠再次申請那我想請您看 這很少有這樣的本土研究這個本土研究是有6家醫學中心那追蹤了12年研究包含接受生物劑治療的近1000位中重度的肝腺病人他研究指出這是他的結論 你看左下角的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3762.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3780.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
先前治療中斷的次數治療反應的動態以及生物製劑的作用基準都是影響復發的重要預測因子第二個隨著生物製劑幾次的停藥次數增加治療效果跟緩解病情緩解的持續時間都會縮短都會下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3783.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3786.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
做研究給你看這是實證喔這是實證喔所以基本上這個其實我也可以說是不人道的因為錢不夠所以本來該讓他們持續使用的藥結果現在就把它中斷了叫他下車等到你病復發了 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3799.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3827.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
到一個程度我才准你再續用目前很多要是如此不是只有癌症那個不人道的這個部分那我想請部長跟龐副你也了解事實上2014年的世界衛生大會就把肝癬正式列為所謂的NCD嘛非傳染性的這個疾病這個部分其實占健保很大的費用non-communicable disease NCD不是只有癌症那不僅造成身體的疼痛跟功能的障礙也讓病人長期面對社會的污名化跟心理壓力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3827.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3831.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
因為他們講的這些肝癬的一個狀況所以我想請教衛福部對於這兩年強制停藥這件事情可不可能改成讓專業醫師判斷作為續用的依據可不可能做這個檢討呢龐副部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3845.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3871.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我先感謝委員關心這個肝癬的問題的確肝癬的病人真的會為了這個使用藥物相當的困擾阿推特剛才講的這個病友的心聲等一下我會把陳情書給你我們真的都深切的了解啦但是我們也所有的很多很多的病人都很需要不同的可能也是蠻昂貴的藥物來治療 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3872.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3878.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我們怎麼樣來治療他 讓他們都得到最好的控制就是我們一走之心那這個是前面一直累積下來的一個一直開 按照專業嘛就是因為我參與 所以我了解這個困難度是怎麼來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3891.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3909.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
其實這個是相似於其他的疾病,這些肝腺的病友他們不是濫用資源,他們努力遵守規範,然後跟疾病共存,但是他們也繳了健保費用,遵守醫主,但是卻被制度就一再被迫要停藥,然後復發,重新證明說我的病夠重了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3910.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3914.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
復發然後才能夠再治療所以我必須說這種限制因為台灣獨有的台灣獨有的限制藥物的幾副標準你看來好像是幫健保省錢但是事後我覺得會造成更大的災難也許要花更多的錢來做一些補救所以可不可能怎麼可能因為現在時代不同大家也一直在呼籲可不可能就是說通盤檢討一下這個所謂的停藥的或是一個限制的就是跟全世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3938.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3946.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
國際都沒有接軌的這個部門我們這個會檢討會來檢討 而且更多的比如說更多的藥物會出來我們有更多的選擇我們會來研議檢討我看到彭副你也在點頭喔 你在點頭喔 我看到囉博敦你有同意醫療保健支出的統計品質是確保健保永續的重要基石就是所謂的NHE啦那我在質詢薛部長的時候因為他曾經悄悄的調生了 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3968.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3990.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這個NHE的數字 之前我們看到六年級後來有一次他上任之後我發現變成七點多因為我大概十年都在追蹤這個數字那當時衛福部對外的說明是我們把長照加進去了可是很多學者包括當過健保署總經理等等的學者他們都懷疑這個說不清不楚就是你怎麼計算的就是不清不楚我當時也認為這是混淆視聽而且就是很像當時薛部長陳時中部長的作風就是來個校正回歸 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3996.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4015.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
偷偷校正回歸那我其實去年王正旭委員他也辦了一場有效健康投資落實健康台灣目標的公聽會他們也都有提到這個戰略的問題戰略到底什麼是標準什麼是足夠我覺得這個可以討論但是如果你的數字是有問題的那我們也可以跟其他國家比較說就會在解讀上 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4017.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4031.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
會是有問題的所以我知道我們老年人口快速上升那醫療的支出照顧必然增加所以你要有及時掌握這些資訊非常重要因為你要有正確的資訊你才能夠去做未來的這個政策的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4033.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4054.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
但是這個資料跨在衛福部下面分散的單位因為像我有時候要去索取資料的時候他們就數或是會推來推去就是說可不可能部長您可不可以答應說您親自建構一個這個平台一個這個協作平台跟跨單位的合作的這種機制那您自己來處理一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4055.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4074.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
就是協調相關業務就是把這些到底這些資料怎麼算因為大家都不知道怎麼算啊就是包括那個健保署說國家付了36%我們到現在搞不清36%你怎麼算啊就是說讓我們清楚嘛你清楚以後其實這個是做事的原則收集資料然後分析資料但資料源頭要是正確的分析資料我們找出問題在哪或是我們政策要在放在什麼地方那未來我們要規劃的時候就可以是這個能夠繼續把它做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4083.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4089.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那很重要一點 這個今天我到統計處又來2007年我發現衛福部每年都有派員參加這個亞太醫療健康帳這個叫Health Account 健康帳的區域這個會議但這幾年好像沒有參加 對不對這幾年沒有參加嘛 統計處不曉得沒有參加我想部長就是說統計處的人力是不是有困難編制也沒辦法做這件事情因為很多行政部門他們都會參加每年參加很多國際會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4112.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4123.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那這個國際有時候沒有直接的建樹所以有時候我們為什麼在看預算的時候我們會去處理但是我覺得對於這個重要的資料安排固定的人參加這些重要國際會議讓台灣的醫療支出的統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4127.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4154.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
跟國際來接軌那也不是一個零星的 零時的一個做法我想如果說你們願意這樣把這些資料弄得非常清楚 弄得正確然後又需要跟其他國際接軌才能夠比對嘛 因為我們常常拿來比對我們輸OECD30個國家是倒數第二三名欸所以我就一直告訴你不夠不夠啊 投資不夠啊醫界也這樣一直告訴你如果你認為不是這樣那就把正確的資料秀給我們看那如果這些考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4154.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4177.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
出國是必要的,沒有人會刪掉這些預算,我相信其他的委員也會支持你今天有瞭解我的這個重點嗎?我完全瞭解,而且我們會照這樣來精進我也跟委員報告,今年因為健保總額增加了700多億這樣的整個總額,還有很多公務預算進來,我相信明年的percentage應該會 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4179.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4185.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
會提升 但是又有證據跟說法 今年算明年才會算OECD因為不是我們不去參加OECD後來說我們不是會員國還是可以參加吧 因為國際會議以前都參加過後來可能被政治力更強施署長旁覆 把它盤點一下不合理不人道的幾副方法好好檢討一下到底需要多少錢 怎麼樣是合理的我想那個問題我們一定去研議謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4209.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4210.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
部長早部長上週氣溫連續 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4237.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4265.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
都飆到37度體感超過40度那極端氣候已經事實上是常態了氣候調適也是國際公約的認定的人權問題那我在環境部諮詢的時候就發現說他們對能源貧窮這件事情其實才剛開始探索但部長這不是是能源問題這些因經濟弱勢而攪不起電費瓦斯費的家庭早就已經延伸更多的社福課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4266.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4267.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
因為只要每升高一度 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4268.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4297.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
人際的一個暴力的話會增加4到6%所以我們就會有家庭暴力的問題甚至慢性疾病衛生條件惡化甚至會影響到兩群人一個叫做老人一個叫做嬰幼兒因為他們的死亡風險高於一般人在一個酷熱的一個夏天裡面那所以根據歐盟跟其他國家的經驗的話處理能源貧窮最重要的第一步就是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4298.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4317.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
清楚的來釐清誰是需要幫助的人那他們的資源實際需求是什麼因為貧窮不只是沒有錢各國的政策也不是只有發錢還會有搭配的服務跟資源所以我想請教部長這些能源貧窮的族群衛福部在社會救助法的修法草案有沒有納入考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4318.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4336.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
好,我想我先回答前面的部分,第一個就是為了積極預備極端氣候變遷,對獨基島人的影響我想如果有家人的話,大概會做一點調配那我們也督導地方政府,用定期掌握狹內獨基島人的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4338.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4364.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
提供那個災害防救單位獨基島的名冊同時也要結合民間的團體志工社工人員在氣候變遷很大或天然災害的時候加強關懷服務而且必要時也必須要跟他做一個調整我想這個部分謝謝委員提出這個問題部長這就是我最擔心的你剛剛回答的為什麼因為現行的社福體力 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4365.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4388.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
體制裡邊到底有沒有針對能源貧窮提出清楚的定義你剛剛講只有講獨居老人可是我剛剛講說最大的受害可能有會產生家庭暴力的問題甚至事實上是對於嬰幼兒他跟老人一樣都事實上是他的死亡風險是高於一般人所以到底有沒有針對您那個能源貧窮提出一個相對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4389.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4409.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
很清楚的定義 甚至有沒有相關的法規或政策指引 如果聽你這樣講的話我們就來談第二個 也就是說根據台大風險中心今年的報告 經濟弱勢家庭中有兩成是因為繳不起電費瓦斯費被斷電斷瓦斯 那還有兩成是連 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4411.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4436.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
節能加電補助都申請不到為什麼因為他有自配的款項所以他根本就是沒有辦法他連自備款項都拿不出來當然也申請不到所以很多弱勢租戶住在違建老舊通風差的房子裡邊所以就會變成什麼越窮越熱越熱越窮的一個惡性循環我在環境部諮詢的時候就已經強調氣候衝擊下最脆弱的不是身體 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4438.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4465.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那個虛弱的人事實上還包括長期被社會福利系統呢遺漏的弱勢族群所以剛剛部長講的就會是跟環境部現在跟我們提出來說有啊我在內政部的大數據我找出撈出獨居者的名單當中去找人啊可是部長這很明顯就是我們社福議題為什麼因為環境部不可能知道你們針對社福到底那個貧窮甚至到底能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4466.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4485.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
裡面切審的這些人他根本不知道所以要靠我們衛福部可是衛福部有沒有比環境部有更有效的策略而不是在獨居名單去找人所以是不是能夠主動鎖定這些能源貧窮者能不能提出具體的方案而不是只靠事辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4486.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4503.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
所以我具體要求請衛福部從全國的社福的弱勢家庭中所以我們不要再增加家庭暴力的問題甚至不要因為熱而死亡所以啟動能源調查然後辨識出能源弱勢族群釐清這些人的脆弱結構跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4504.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4521.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
原因是什麼所以部長你覺得這個事情的規劃你大概要多久的時間謝謝委員的關心我想我們衛福部有依照這個因應氣候變遷制健康衝擊政策白皮書來增強遊民低中收入戶面對極端氣候的調適能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4523.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4551.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那當然本部為了確保這些他們的基本的生存錢也有訂定專案的計畫那督導直轄市縣市政府那個要關懷那如果有高溫的情況立刻立刻啟動高溫關懷機制是部長是不是先至少第一步先達到就是到底誰是能源貧窮者先把定義出來否則就會變成環境部他會依著你的概念然後就只撈 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4552.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4571.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
獨居長者出來 可是其他該要照顧的人沒照顧到所以一個月時間足夠嗎 把它定義出來之後還有相關的規劃我請你履次那個齁 沒關係你講沒關係 因為我做COVID的齁好 那履次你這邊有辦法 一個月可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4572.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4598.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
非常感謝委員對於這個問題的關心確實現在目前整個全球的這一個氣候變遷對於我們弱勢者確實是很大的一個衝擊那我想這個大概兩個部分一個是他的收入面另外一個支出面支出面的部分我跟委員報告有一個統計數據是公研院他跟家福他們那邊有一個合作就是說這一個低收中低收的家戶能源支出占他的總支出大概18.1這是第一個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4599.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4625.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
另外第二個數據現在就是說他現在目前整個這個低收中低收跟社會弱勢民眾其實他們裡面的很多家電其實事實上恐怕都有這一個事實上都有能源效率的問題那我跟委員簡單報告其實部長對這個問題他之前就有交辦我在部裡面我在那個我們社政這邊其實有成立一個專案那個相關的一個部分我現在已經請我們相關的就是包括我們的社會救助的這些民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4627.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4644.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
你們也在開會 所以一個月規劃可以 沒問題我們會把我們相關的規劃成果因為把經濟弱勢者 無家者 社福機構像安置機構 長照機構甚至脆弱家庭跟身障跟罕見疾病這些能不能是定義為能源貧窮者你們可以把它定義出來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4644.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4670.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
然後接下來配套是什麼 在一個月內我簡單回覆一下 就兩個部分分析程式有兩個一個是機構 另外一個是家戶啦這裡面我們都要嚴格來予定義好 再麻煩那部長早在2017年兩公約審查就已經要求說台灣必須訂定無家可歸者的福利跟人權法而且要建立一套全國方法一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4671.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4677.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
統計資料庫來反映無家者的實際人數需求跟生活狀況可現在你的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4678.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4703.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
是什麼2017年我們兩公約在國際委員審查的時候就已經要做到這兩件事情那目前衛福部的進度是什麼有做到嗎我跟委員報告我們現在目前我知道民團他們這邊有現在目前的一個相關的一個統計那我跟委員報告我們現在目前現在目前有列冊全台灣應該我記得有三千多位那這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4707.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4710.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
因為民間團體就大概指出說九成的無家者是沒有中低收入的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4728.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4751.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
七成的無家者是沒有任何福利身份也沒有領到任何的福利津貼那所以我就不知道說政府的精準的資料庫你怎麼去回應人家民間團體可以調出來可是調查出來可是你們卻不知道我不知道說你們都沒有辦法提出只有要求地方列冊就足夠作為政策依據嗎我不認為齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4752.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4773.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
再提到專法 衛福部在2019年就已經有委託研究案學者也寫好了 寫好了整部的無家者的一個專法的草案卻到現在沒有任何後續的一個行動2023年呢 關於我們的社會救助法的研究案也是一樣的結論也就我有看到你們最新的社救法的一個草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4774.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4798.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
裡面增加了無家者的一個條文可是沒有專章也沒有法定身份也沒有法定預算中央政府的責任也非常有限說實在進步幅度非常小部長你覺得增加一條條文真的就能夠達到國際人權委員會要求的專法的效果嗎因為他結論性意見37點次43點次都有一些要求可是你覺得一條條文你就可以達到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4800.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4815.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我想這個都可以研議啦那這幾個計畫已經都完成了可是你們版本看起來就是只有一條條文人家第一個要專第一個要專法那至少也要有專章可是我們現在看到你們的大概沒有專 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4817.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4827.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
專章去做這個 來做說明是 報告委員那個我們現在目前簡單三點我們現在目前所增加的不是只有一條而已我們有增加三條這是第一點等等 一樣的三條能夠回應我們因為兩公約接下來又要審查國際又要來進行國際審查了 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4837.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4863.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
包委員我們這個其實對於那個是不是會成為遊民的這個成因其實老實說非常非常廣泛那這裡面除了經濟議題之外其實也有牽涉到譬如像有關於居住居住的還有就業等等這些相關的一些的這些部分那至於委員所說的是不是有必要來成立專章這個我想我們可以再來延誤好不好市長我覺得台灣沒有無家者的專法可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4863.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4869.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
是不是也就是導致我們的社安網第二期的計畫裡邊完全資質未提無家者可歸 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4872.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4900.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
的問題那有沒有法定 也沒有法定預算也沒有行動方案你們現在真的草案裡邊中央的責任非常的薄弱而且看不到全國性 系統性 前瞻性的積極輔導工作規範安置體系跟預防措施還要訂相關的配套的辦法散落到地方的無家者偵測導致地方有錢才做沒有錢就沒事怎麼可能可以處理跨縣市流動的無家者的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4901.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4924.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
而且現在連全國一致的調查機制都沒有根本不符合國際基本的治理要求美英日韓早就在無家者有專法而且授權從中央層級到地方層級而且我們現在比韓國晚10年然後比日本晚20年所以我要問的是無家者的法定福利身份跟預算是否要納入社會救助法專章 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4925.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4941.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
再等專法立法後再轉過去我覺得期待是應該你們版本要考量這樣如果要直接訂專法的話衛福部有沒有時間表今年國家人權報告就要送出了那你們到底要不要把立法的成立法的期程寫進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4943.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4962.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
人權公約的審查要清楚的交代這個我期待你們要這樣子做為什麼因為我們當然希望你不能夠說都不對應人家結論性意見因為時間關係我就不讓你們回答那部長現在還要談的是真正排除貧窮者的不是貧窮縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4963.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4991.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
而是你們社會救法裡面那套過時的虛擬收入全世界找不到其他國家用這種方式虛擬一個不存在的收入為了防避而造成許多窮人呢申請不到低收入戶那這條制度是來自1963年戒嚴時期2004年才被寫進母法現在只是因為方便計算根本沒有什麼制度設計所以到今天這還不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4992.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5021.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
轉型正義的問題嗎你們說查不到地下經濟就拿虛擬收入來防弊結果犧牲的是最貧困的人到2025年我們還要用61年前的方法來判定誰夠窮所以去年7月陳時中政委就已經找你們跟民間修法聯盟開會了然後呢明確要求衛福部要算出來廢除虛擬收入之後增加多少財政成本跟受益人數所以我要先問部長你們算出來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5023.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5048.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
目前算出來了嗎報告委員我們現在目前有做相關的研議但我也要必須要報告委員其實這裡面你也知道就是說我想我們都知道全世界現在目前整個這個所謂地下經濟的這個部分那你現在目前這個我們真的很低而且只有2.4%可是大概照理來講如果我們按照貧窮線大概會到13% |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5050.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5073.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
報告委員我們現在目前如果按照那個有其他那個津貼的那個收入的那個補助的話涵蓋人口是8.36我們涵蓋就是那個中低收入老人生活津貼還有那個聲音障礙者津貼還有那個弱勢兒少補助如果以這個也把它算進來的話我們算是8.36喔老東部在那場會議當中也說即便廢除虛擬收入加上其他的修法項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5074.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5100.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
也只會多出38萬人業務還是可以承擔那你們自己研究也說至少會有5萬人立刻可以取得低收入資格如果你廢除掉那一條的話那這5萬人會帶到底帶來多少的財政影響因為時間關係所以請你們一週內最多兩週內是不是把資料給我也把一半一併把計算方式提供市長這邊可以嗎OK好OK謝謝謝謝市長謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5104.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5107.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
好,謝謝營委員的詢問,謝謝部長。接下來請楊瓊英委員來做詢問。謝謝召委。楊瓊發言,邀請部長。部長,你怎麼哭?你怎麼哭?你怎麼哭?好,委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5135.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5146.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
謝謝部長我們來討論今天本期的提案社福法第11條現金給戶調整的這個時間那我們據110年到112年CPI年增率分別是1.97 2.95 2.49那食物類的漲幅更高達2.45 5.66% 4.03%那顯見民生物價年年上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5164.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5181.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那侵蝕到經濟弱勢族群的一個實質生活的能力所以本席具體建議在提案社會救助法第十一條的規定薪金給付金額每四年調整一次調整條幅與物價的波動呢它是嚴重的脫鉤 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5185.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5213.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
而且跟我們憲法保障弱勢的基本精神背道而馳所以本席等21人我們共同提案希望將社會救助法我們調整的時間由4年來改為2年以營運社會的一個樣態請教部長是 我想委員的建議我們覺得我們支持支持從外面來演繹那你就同意由4年改為2年嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5215.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5233.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我沒有往這方面來研議往這方面來研議嘛所以換句話就是同意由目前的現行的四年調整為兩年來調整一次方向大家是雷同的那現在要請教實踐具體 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5234.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5249.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
包委那個我想確實啦我們那個最近的通膨我想這個變動率確實相當大現在目前雖然說法現在目前說4年我想如果大家有共識的話我想這個來說的我覺得確實也是可以來好謝謝你 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5251.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5264.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
暫同縮短由四年改為兩年所以我在這邊也要具體部長在這邊因為訊息萬變這個我本期要建議也就是說在整個動態的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5266.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5283.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
跟應變的機制你要怎麼樣去確保救助金額與民生物價脫鉤的落差不要再大這個也就是我們提案大家非常認同的一個方向這個務必也要請你們去研擬出來你隨時的動態檢討跟應變的機制檢討出來給本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5290.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5310.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那我要謝謝你同意本席所提出的社會救助法第11條的現金給付的部分由目前4年我們調整為2年來修改一次接下來本席要跟你討論的也就是狼醫的問題那我們看到7月5號的報導這樣子的事件振興婦產科醫師社性侵招通緝 氣包潛逃 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5317.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5331.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這個行為介入了狼醫問題的制度失能嚴重的去侵害到整個病患的一個權利那衛護部你承諾規劃狼醫查詢平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5331.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5356.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
你至今一再跳票從一月份你允諾三個月內要研議到了五月份我們再問你說你再保證一個月內要提出規劃現在又過了你一跳再跳票部長 以你的個性不應當是如此啊請教 目前社會看不到任何具體的一個進展什麼時候會設立 請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5363.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5389.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
包委員我們依據對於不當這些行為我們是非常的痛恨非常痛恨也是全民非常痛恨那既然是全民共識為什麼會做不出來呢我們所有的層次一定也是要合法來討論所以我們在你是主責單位你已經跳票兩次你到底什麼時候要承諾要執行處 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5391.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5408.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
除了我們內部一直討論以外,我們5月29號也邀請相關的司署來徹底這個性別事件揭露的可行性那考量到性別事件的種類多元,且牽涉到不同主管機關的前者所以現在現階段優先來討論歸納 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5411.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5418.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
處理依法可公開的資訊 譬如說判決書這個部分也有跟司法 目前在駕駛依法可公開嘛 你5月29號你沒有去做討論縮小了這個範圍 認為依法可公開的必須要揭露在這個部分我們已經接下司法院 並做討論相關執行的細節當然最重要就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5435.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5454.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
要有法源嘛那另外要在既然法源在合法的情況之下當然我們要保護當事人這當事人當然也包括受害人跟加害人那所以在判判決位三位判決前的確是我們要有一個法源來處理所以在這邊請教部長民眾病患要擁有他最基本的一個知情保障跟就醫的安全網 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5464.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5469.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這個是民眾最基本的一個要求這是政府必須要給民眾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5495.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5516.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我們希望民眾也注意一下真的有沒有保護得很好譬如說整個環境還有沒有護理師但是我們嚴格是要求如果沒有按照這樣子是要受罰的啦我們要一師懲你稍稍有一點激動的回答代表著你來一切你也非常痛恨這樣的一個情勢發生對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5518.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5531.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
不能非常非常少數的來讓我們幾十年百年來台灣醫界投入我們醫界的光榮你不能因為少數人嚴重的影響我們一定要讓民眾就醫安全所以讓醫病信任跟專業的倫理我相信我們不容許翻盤這一定要堅守所以再一次請教你的這個平台什麼時候可以設立 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5550.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5551.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們在合法的情況下我們會公佈可公佈的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5563.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5584.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
可公布的資訊請問什麼時候因為國外也已經有這些的查詢這個方案都有那請教你也非常的痛恨我們不希望因為少數人引起影響到我們整個醫界醫界也是我們非常非常的尊敬但是既然有這樣的現象我們應該你從一月份答應三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5588.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5591.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
再從五月份到這個月那到底什麼時候你可以將這個平台來設立民眾要問的是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5601.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5619.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
委員報告我們目前進行的進度是正在跟司法院接洽我們的資訊要怎麼直接的借接那如果順利的話我們希望能夠一個月內來完成跟司法院這個彼此的資料的互通然後希望能夠以這個為目標來完成謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5622.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5633.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所以換句話說您說的狼醫查詢平台在你一個月跟司法你的進度在討論那討論好之後就可以成立我這麼解讀是正確的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5635.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5656.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們的目標是這樣的所以你的目標現在是7月份 換句話說你在8月份的時候就可以公佈 是不是加油 我們期待值我們要盡快把會公告的公告啦還有就是就醫的安全 絕對是醫療體系所堅持的你來這一屆你一定會維護嘛 對不對我們大家一起加油嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5657.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5659.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
監察院 我們發覺到這個調查 我覺得很難過 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5681.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5692.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們的勞發署青年職癌發展中心推動12年的事辦我從來沒有看過一個政府的政策計畫是事辦12年而且還經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5700.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5718.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
這個監察院的調查為什麼大家都要支持我們的青年支持青年的就業輔導我們青年的就業讓我們的孩子可以好好的就業安心的就業這是我們一再的推動政府部門竟然來一個事半12年 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5720.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5736.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我們要請問到底我們在這個示範當中每一年沒有提出報告檢討如何的增長嗎我們的參與率就業率失業率針對於年輕人的部分我們到底要怎麼改善看不到你們的內容竟然還要由監察院來做調查這怎麼回事啊每一年將近一億的經費來輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5748.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5769.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
有一個示範叫做12年的示範 本席不解 請做說明跟委員報告一下 其實我們青年職業發展中心只是我們促進青年就業服務裡面的一部分一個部分一個指向就如此 難怪我們的青年不知所措 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5770.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5798.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
報告委員我們在整個投資青年方案裡面有第一期到第二期這幾年的青年的失業率都是逐年下降甚至也來到了低點那親子計畫的這個案子經過監察院的這個調查之後我們也在積極的在做一些討論跟檢討那近期也會在跟監察院那邊再一次請教哪有一個政府的政策是事半十二年在經過監察院的一個糾舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5800.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5807.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
要怎麼改善還是繼續事辦嗎要怎麼改善我們會來檢討會來檢討是什麼呢會來檢討是什麼12年的事辦這個政府到底出了什麼事啊好 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5819.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5846.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
所以本席具體建議12年的事辦不應當繼續如此拿出你們的方案不應當停滯不前你必須要有具體的作為能夠確保我們整個的經費在投入能夠真正的帶動整個青年的一個就業率這是我們基本的要求啊你多久時間可以把具體方案給本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5848.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5868.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這個我補充一下 之前有特別排這樣的專案報告他們的部長是有在委員會承諾從那天算起應該剩下不到兩個禮拜他們要提出這個相關的一些修正請問謝謝張偉的說明 請問部會 什麼時候可以提出方案就依照部長之前承諾的期限什麼時候你主席是指到現在 部長什麼時候都不知道這個讓我們怎麼聽聞啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5879.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5899.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
就兩個禮拜換句話說在七月的這個第三個禮拜可以提出方案現在有在檢討可以提出方案現在已經有在檢討七月份的第三個禮拜提出具體方案加油讓我們的孩子可以放心好嗎謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5902.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5920.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
好謝謝,我提醒是部長提出檢討報告,不是具體方案,你們班部長打的,你們要回去承受好謝謝,我提醒消費部,那個144,副市長你們還要一個月,你們不公布人家媒體會幫你們公布 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5934.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5957.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那個已經這麼久了,我覺得你們是在獻部長於不義,沒有道理啦。法務部的參事在這邊啊,司法院的誰都在這邊,你們可以馬上講啊。你們一個藍絲的平台有需要搞這麼久?等陳醫師到了,你可以問他,莫加派出力吧。接下來請王立民、王委員來做選擇。 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5968.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5973.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
謝謝主席,那我們是不是請部長,還有法務部部長,剛剛提到那個狼醫的查詢平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5985.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6002.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
之前你們次長對外講的時候是說這個要有法源依據然後呢法規不夠才來修法那現在到底是卡在哪裡是法源的問題還是行政作業來不及的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6004.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6022.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
好 謝謝委員 其實這個社會關注的問題 衛務部絕對不會說讓它delay所以我們大概雙管齊下 第一個在法源的方面我們當然要現在找到了沒 法源依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6023.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6042.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
至少我們是可以公開可以優先來處理可以公開的資訊比如說判決書這本來就是沒有判決權有時候也不能就把人家定罪這個部分我相信我們很快的剛剛議事室有講 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6043.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6057.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我們趕快跟司法院請教後面怎麼樣執行第二個就是說怎麼樣把事情發生的時候由社會局這個部分我們會督導各縣市政府轉到衛生局 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6060.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6079.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
縮短這樣的一個中心,衛生局就趕快來開相關的審議委員會所以這樣的流程也要儘快那就有壓抑的處罰的效果會更加的呈現我想這兩個方面我們都在努力所以分別在5月19號也跟相關事實討論這個法源的問題那在6月30號也特別開這個1億市審查委員會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6087.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6098.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
所以後續怎麼樣來縮短這樣的一個調查的時間這樣子那為什麼7月5號那個林靜儀次長還在講說法院有問題那個法務部法院有什麼問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6106.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6121.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
跟委員報告事實上這個資料是做一個如果已經是像醫師懲戒書或是判決書是已經公開資料這沒有問題但是外界非常期待應該更早的介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6122.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6126.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
然後把這個資訊做揭露比如他還在職場裡面提出性騷申訴的時候就來把這個資料做揭露那這個就很需要做討論以及需要有法規的依據那行政單位才可以做這件事情所以分兩個階段來講如果要再更往前他需要有法規的依據可能就需要修法這就是我們進議次長所講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6148.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6170.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
但是現在已經公開這些判決書或是醫師懲戒決定書那這個是公開的部分我們就會做一個連結然後會在平台上做一個資訊公開那我就問你前段如果已經是提出來的這個個案已經在審查了那你們會直接要求他調離現行的職務停止嗎 接受調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6172.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6194.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
如果按照我們現在相關的醫療的規定沒有辦法有這樣的依據那所以這一塊你們真的要研議喔因為你們這個會比其他的更鬆不是更嚴就是說如果他已經有疑似這樣的狀況只是因為還沒有被判決但是他持續在執行他相關的這個業務那如果他再辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6196.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6211.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以這一套機制我覺得這個可能部長你回去你們要思考因為這個在相關處置上面你們沒有一個暫時停止的這個機制的話我覺得是相對比較鬆散的這個你們要去思考一下接下來我要問的是有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6216.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6236.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
風遠這個一家五口的命案我們現在看到這個詐騙案越來越多那當然這個警方跟檢調是主力但是如果說都是成年人一家五口還用這樣子的一個方式然後顯然他不太知道說我們的社會福利安全體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6237.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6255.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
其實是有提供幫忙的那這一塊的話我們要怎麼做目前的我們的社會救助法如果像這一種負債很高然後它是不是也是屬於重大變故生活陷於困境你們會提供幫忙嗎你們在審核標準的時候像這樣的案例符合標準嗎是不是我們請理事長來回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6262.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6283.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
包委員我想發生這個漢事我想這個真的是令人遺憾我想那個成因基本上大概就是說是因為詐騙那我也跟委員報告就是說確實根據那個委員所說第21條第6款我們確實如果說有民眾如果有遭遇任何的重大變故以至於生活艱困的話都可以來跟我們地方縣市政府的這個社會局 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6284.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6303.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
先跟那個公所嘛然後也可以跟社會局這邊來提出相關的一個申請還有另外我們社安網這邊也有那個社會我們在各地方有156處的這個社福中心這個民眾如果有任何需要這裡是不可以客氣而且這裡是要趕快第一時間call help |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6306.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6332.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
對 因為我看到因為這些都是成年人那顯然他是有找了民意代表但是就沒有轉到衛福部相關的這個社會體系我是覺得有點可惜如果說有人可以再跟他多聊聊多談談可能不會做這麼就是極端的一個決定這真的是讓人家蠻遺憾的所以我希望你們在宣導上面也可以再去多加強好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6333.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6347.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
好 我想這個事件真的是大家都很難過啦那它的原因有多重從起源到後來的處理那個都一定要全部來檢討真的不要再發生這種情況 這也不只說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6349.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6361.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
甚至個案都可能會因為詐騙而受到很大的身心創傷那這個怎麼用來協助是我們社會非常需要重視的 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6363.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6381.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
接下來我要跟你們探討是有關於我們的貧窮線的標準跟世界各國比起來我們的貧窮線我們是畫得太嚴格了就是說我們可以服務的我們的比例其實是比較低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6382.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6396.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這不代表台灣比較富裕啦這可能是跟我們的那個標準是有關係的那這一塊到底剛剛其實也有一些委員都有提出來了那這個社救盟呢他提出來的報告也說我們大概還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6398.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6419.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
實質的貧窮人口八成是沒有得到協助跟幫忙的那這一塊現在正在討論社救法那衛福部其實也要提一個版本那這一塊你們有沒有什麼樣的打算就是說可以擴大就是說現行的無論是2.6%或2.3%這真的都是太低的一個情況那可以怎麼樣去擴充讓真的有需要幫助的這些貧窮家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6426.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6453.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
真的可以得到政府的幫忙,你們有沒有一個目標跟預計要怎麼做?謝謝委員,貧窮線的部分等一下請理事幫忙回答那基本上我們不是說這貧窮的線才在幫忙,我們有很多幫忙存心障礙如果是團體的一個障礙,算起來也有8點多的一個照顧力但還是低於國際上的那個不曉得,來理事 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6454.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6470.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
非常感謝委員的這一個推詢我想其實會貧窮其實簡單來說就一句話入不敷出所以我們基本上如果是一個等式的話對不對當然有收入面也有支出面支出面其實就是誠如剛剛委員所說我們按照我們的這一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6472.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6483.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
支出面的話我跟委員報告我們其實就國際比較而言我們沒有比較差為什麼因為我們是以所謂最低生活費最低生活費是以所謂這一個可支配所得的60%我們算60% |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6488.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6505.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
OECD國家是50%所以我們是優於OECD所以這是第一點說明另外第二點說明如果按照這樣的一個標準所以這是支出面收入面我們基本上是受到三個因素的影響是動產 不動產還有一般所謂的涉算所得這三個因素去影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6506.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6522.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我們現在目前沒錯 誠如剛剛委員所說我們現在目前貧窮率來說是2.6但是我必須要強調一點就是說因為我們還有另外中低收入老人生活津貼 身心障礙還有那個特殊禁慮家庭其實這些 我想委員過去在台中也擔任過副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6523.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6548.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們現在目前這個部分其實cover其實是8.67我這一點我必須要說數字上來說是這樣那其實你說夠嗎 還是不夠所以我們跟委員報告就是說我們現在目前確實在我們現在預告的部分確實就是整個所謂的動產的部分我們現在貧窮縣其實全台灣有八條就是六都之外還有台灣省連江縣我們這邊現在目前動產的部分我們現在有這一個放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6549.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6563.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
第二個不動產的部分因為現在目前房價所以這個我們也必須要放寬第三個就是剛剛委員我想很多委員大家都會關心的社算所得的部分工作收入第五條第一項的部分你們都是用虛擬所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6564.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6587.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
對那這邊的話我跟委員報告因為這裡面牽涉到就是說整個兩個因素第一個就是說台灣老實說地下經濟還是蠻多的這個裡面這個所謂部分工時或者說這一個違定雇主其實這裡面樣態老實說非常多我跟委員簡單報告這裡面我們就盤過有一個免納稅或投保的工作類型這裡面有攤販 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6588.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6617.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
農林榆木家庭手工民宿等等這些其實說實話這裡面高高低低確實有一些但是有一些需要還有像文化工作者這個也都在那裡面那這裡面我們要核實的話老實說這個有一些技術上當然我們必須要來克服這個我同意那我跟委員報告我們現在目前這個部分我們會採取最低工資這邊我們可能會採取折算的方式你可以說看要折多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6618.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6632.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
八折或六折 這個大家都可以來討論對 我覺得這部分一定要檢討因為其實很多的中低收入所得者你知道他們在做什麼嗎 他們就站在路邊發傳單蠻多這種的 那個其實真的沒有多少錢那你把它設算那麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6639.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6666.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那個跟實際狀況真的是不吻合啦所以我覺得我們的政策既然這麼多年都沒有調整了這一次我覺得就應該要把它調到跟實際比較相襯然後讓這些真正所得低的人我知道你講的地下經濟台灣其實有一群這樣的人但是真正中低收入他們更多是他這就打零工所以他所得沒有你虛擬設算的那麼高啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6667.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6682.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那這一群人你就應該要讓他得到實質的幫忙,把他納進來你的照顧體系範圍,好不好?好,是的好,那就希望這個部分,未來你們的版本也趕快提出來,就是我們再來討論,謝謝好的,謝謝委員,謝謝人謝謝好,謝謝王委員,謝謝部長,接下來請陳輝委員來做詢討陳委員詢討結束之後,我們休息順狀況,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6700.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6706.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
謝謝主席 也謝謝各位委員還有官員首先我也想先請這個衛福部部長來 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6713.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6735.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我剛剛聽到很多我們其他女性委員在關注同樣的事情所以我當然也想要來請教部長這個新聞上禮拜鬧得非常的大台大婦產科名醫鄭文芳氣飽潛逃結果台大醫院院長只有簡單的說一句說真的是台大之恥 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6736.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6764.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
醫界之恥 可是我盤點了一下我們這過去幾個月所面對的案件實在是太多了 多到我還要一一去細數這個包括前婦產科醫學會理事長的性騷事件這個棄保潛逃的性侵狼醫以及我們台大的住院醫師黃姓住院醫師被一審判決確定還有一位台大的骨科教授性騷女研究助理藥廠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6765.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6792.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那最近也才被輕輕放下緩刑三年你知道這所有的事情共通點是什麼嗎就是整個過程中衛福部跟台大是毫無作為喔毫無作為他們被迫這些不管是病患或者是他們的下屬的醫師還繼續的跟他們相處可是我們現在在衛黃委員會我相信各位對於幼保人員對於老師連計程車司機 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6795.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6805.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我們都是嚴格的要求而且很積極的為可能會接觸到他們的人搭起一道防護牆我現在就來跟你講這件事有多誇張我們來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6810.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6816.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
鄭文芳他這個強制性交未遂是在2020 2021年案發齁2023年3月有立委出來喔還是執政黨立委帶著好幾個受害人開記者會譴責這件事情2023年3月 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6828.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6843.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
結果他到2023年9月都還在看門診你不會覺得很誇張當時台大醫院回覆說近代司法調查近代司法審理眼睜睜的我們現在看著新聞搞到氣飽潛逃 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6845.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6862.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那上次這個性騷案 李市長性騷案去年2024年5月 院方就主動開始調查了他一路上班到今年1月一路上班到今年1月 跟這些受害者一起上班到今年1月 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6863.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6880.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
一月調查確定性騷成立宣布不續聘然後還拖到5月27我知道聽說次長有去跟婦產科醫學會溝通都不願意下台到今年5月27你從WHO回來他才請辭婦產科醫學會理事長一職 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6883.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6889.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這段期間這麼多受害人病患這些心理創傷二度創傷誰來負責最後講黃姓的住院醫師更扯他從事發不但完成了專科醫師訓練還拿到婦產科職業執照 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6901.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6928.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
最後還跑到桃園去當婦產科醫師從事發 他總共工作了四年現在他要一起被跟這個信騷理事長裁送懲戒所以我很想在這邊問一下部長請問未來任何醫生我先姑且不論是哪一科可是有特定的科別一定會接觸到脆弱的族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6929.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6945.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
其中不乏是兒童婦幼未來任何醫生只要涉及性騷性侵等案件是不是可以一律先停止等到司法審判結束後無罪再來復職你需要多久可以做到 多久可以評估我想我們是要依法辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6951.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6959.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我剛已經舉例了,台大當時2023年3月也是說依法辦理,結果現在人在國外了?這是他不應該的行為,台大醫院也嚴正譴責,應該要面對司法的調查跟審判,這個行為是不足期的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6978.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6979.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
對 但是我剛剛的重點 我不是告訴你嗎他從開始調查一直到他正式被判決他中間全部都還在做他婦產科的業務耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6995.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7020.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我想社會也很關心這個問題但是我們一切一定會依法來辦理所以有關於所以我剛剛已經有報告過了我們也一直在演繹包括519號我們也邀請相關的私人來看看涉及聖培事件疑似人類相關資訊揭露的可行性這跟揭不揭露無關你是不是可以先讓他停職 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7022.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7034.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
因為很多狼屍我們是需要先讓他停止他一旦涉入了這些性平的調查或是性平的事件這些人都工作非常久耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7034.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7062.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
因為有不同的樣態啦齁那譬如說那個剛剛講比較討論的擔任協會協會比較高階的這位醫師那上次也爭議過啊他後來台大停了以後他就不准再進度到所有的他當科的所有的研究室啊有一次被發現說在忘年會過去一下但是他還在看病啊你知道吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7063.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7081.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
他開始調查以後 我想台大醫院一定是依法辦理啦台大醫院不可能去容許是一個這麼有傳統有制度的那個 而且那麼多的 沒關係部長我不相信台大醫院可以在違法的情況之下給他去做看門診或怎麼樣他們有 一定有他們處理的一套我剛剛不是已經跟你講了嗎 這幾個醫生從開始調查都在看診 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7093.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7095.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
而且有的是看診了四年我今天主要就是想要問你說未來任何的醫生只要涉及性騷或性侵等案件或是調查是不是你們衛福部可以嚴你先停職等到調查結果出爐司法審判確立無罪再來復職 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7118.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7142.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
因為我剛舉的這些例子不管是骨科或是婦產科他們都做了長達一年的臨床工作甚至教學工作包委我想我簡單回答一下三個重點第一個確實這個行為任何人都沒有接受這個一定要處理這是第一點第二點可是這裡面有關於停職的規定因為過去我在保訓會待過有關停職的規定老師說會牽涉到有關於不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7145.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7167.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
這個被行為人或行為人他們自己本身的一些相關的權益那這裡面確實要透過修法那這裡面我跟委員報告我們現在目前也確實本部也在嚴寧就是到底要修醫師法還是還是性招的防治法這個我們可以朝這個方向這個在還沒有修法之前我們現在目前本部透過的方式現在透過行政行政處理怎麼行政處理就是說地方這邊如果說如果發生這個情勢的話第一時間社會局就要趕快通報地方衛生局 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7173.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7186.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
就要趕快通報 這個是我們現在通過還沒有修法之前 我們現在目前我們透過行政端的部分可以先來做相關的處理方式什麼時候大概多久以內可以看到你們正式的報告 評估報告 研擬報告我們報告的部分我們會盡快好不好多久嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7197.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7220.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我們一個月好不好 一個月 我也跟委員報告其實事實上這個事情發生之後 靜怡次長她也找過我我們兩位次長 其實共同也要研擬相關的機制這個我們也開過兩次會了 跟委員回答因為剛剛部長也有跟其他委員講到說病人的安全 病人的健康都是你最在意的對 這個當然也是病人安全的範圍之一嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7221.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7231.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我覺得男安全除了個人以外也要環境的跟制度譬如說我們看診一定要有護理師在旁邊我想所有的醫療院所都要堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7232.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7249.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這樣的一個 我相信都有堅持這樣的原則啦我想曾委員也是醫界的人嘛我們不可能再做一個procedure我們現在並不是說只要護理人員都陪在旁邊一個已經被接受調查的人就可以持續看診Cualify這種狀況啦就是說不要導致好像陳敏看病就不安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7256.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7261.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
簽名干病每一個醫院包括診所都非常小心啊當然不是我現在是說這些人已經開始被調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7266.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7289.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
已經開始被調查之後你是不是應該要保護他們看的病人的安全這個可以我們來研議因為他在調查有不同的型態喔有些比較最最最不應該就是說利用看診的方便去對病人有什麼不當的行為那個人後來過四年了當然那個就是已經公開離開了離開所有的職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7293.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7302.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我們要分類啦 才不會變成說好像醫療體系都不安全了 這樣也不好我現在就是為了要分類 所以我想問你可不可以先把這些人停職 我們以一種也可以顧及他生育的方式讓他先停職 靜待調查結果出爐或是懲戒結果出爐 或是判決結果出爐我們再讓他復職吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7319.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7338.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
來演繹沒有問題委員所提醒的指導我想我們就很嚴肅的來演繹我們會跟法務單位來演繹好那這個是你剛講到的8月你可以做到這邊也給你看會議紀錄今年1月我跟蘇清清委員跟陳昭之委員就已經希望你們可以啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7340.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7355.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
醫師性傷有行為揭露平台的建制程序至今是今天已經七月了 現在已經七月了然後五月二十一蘇昭偉又排了這個事件那一天是林淑芬委員問的她又幫我們三個人重新問一次現在也喚起你一點回憶 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7359.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7371.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡所以要這細節就是你要納入多細微你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權才能夠保障醫部雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7376.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7390.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
現在討論得很清楚 現在講得很清楚喔懲戒的 移送懲戒的 相關的 法院判決的還有剛剛講的 不是判刑確定你們過去五年 光是違反一世維女的沒有一件送懲戒 這個標準你要公文下去 告訴 從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7391.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7414.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以剛剛講的啊 他說我們對性侵性騷擾零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨提的那其實您也有接受記者採訪 您也有說 您也有在考慮這件事情但也是未還委員會通過的那你剛剛說8月要建制 您有法源的依據那假使不需要法源依據的 您認為你可以先行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7415.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7433.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我們現在就是要先行在合法的情況之下公開到哪些公開資訊這部分剛剛醫師師也回答說大概一個月一個月就可以來處理這一塊所以你會告訴我們不需要法源依據的哪一些你們可以先做是嗎應該是這樣對好謝謝結束了嗎好好對不起好那謝謝昭偉謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7445.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7455.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好謝謝,我們要休息十分鐘,不過我還是提醒部長,剛剛楊委員的取選是你那個平台,那陳委員的取選是平台間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7456.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7482.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
怎麼去停止這一個醫師的職業這是兩個城市問題那你們剛剛答覆的我覺得是等一下臨時委員會問啦你們絕對跑不了啦所以醫事是我覺得你真的是要負起最大的責任你如果這樣做我就沒辦法了對啊你就不要做了你讓黑群總監會傳習一下他們需要傳習服務啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7489.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7490.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
要不要粘曲奇呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8146.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8161.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好 我們繼續開會 接下來請林淑媛來做詢問好 謝謝昭偉 是不是請我們邱部長來 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8168.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8180.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
部長今天很多的委員關心台大名醫鄭文芳棄保潛逃的這個案件喔那其實在這裡面我們看的新聞我其實很不爽因為呢我們的台大醫院台大醫院的這個前院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8183.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8187.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
出來除了譴責鄭文芳以外做了一個責任上的切割我也看不出來我們台大醫院有什麼擔當從事發到潛逃就只有一個罵他不應該潛逃沒擔當可是台大醫院本身自己就是最沒擔當的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8203.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8207.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那因為在這種狀況裡面 我也質詢過當時你去日內瓦參加WHA的世界衛生大會那我質詢次長的時候 我們大家一起在講其實今天一直在講法源的問題 法源的依據一路走來 就說沒有法源不能公佈所以現在的公告資訊透明 民眾的知情權進度落後都是因為沒有法源依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8230.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8246.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
這一路走來都看到衛福部一路也始終是在包庇人醫啦跟他看到這樣而已啦,沒看到其他的問題,為什麼這樣說,我說給你聽第一呢,一路走來就以法律審判來掩護行政責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8247.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8253.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這個醫師法第25條要依附懲戒為頭要等法律判決這個確定才要移送懲戒後來才知道你們就是一路以這種法律審判掩護行政責任卻違背了醫師法第25條的第4款違背這個醫學倫理就可以移送懲戒了第二個你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8275.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8284.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
這個在這剛才我講的寬鬆移送懲戒的這個過程以外一直以依法無所依據持續不公告即便我們的兒少的法規都已經確定囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8290.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8294.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
就是醫療人員涉嫌性騷擾或性侵頻傳受害者不是只有成年人還有未成年的小孩在這種狀況裡面兒少法都規定這種要公佈可以公佈姓名台灣對狼獅、幼保人員的對待及性別不當對待者 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8311.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8314.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
甚至可以處以終身或數年不認用可是對猥褻兒童受害者是未成年的狼屍 狼醫啊都是輕輕放下 還可以繼續看診所以都繼續以無法源依據來推脫來推脫 我剛剛講的未成年的都有法源依據的 你也沒有公告啊也不願意公告啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8337.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8355.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
然後呢在這種狀況裡面喔1月的時候國民黨委員提案你們說好4月要做5月我諮詢的時候你們說好6月要做6月到了7月來了什麼都還沒有做現在委員又在這裡諮詢7月的時候說我們8月會做現在是不是要等到9月會說10月會做始終一路走來衛福部就是包庇狼醫的幫兇 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8366.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8381.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那我現在講說 我們一直在講醫事人員查詢系統你們的醫事人員查詢系統連有沒有執照 醫師有沒有執照都查不出來的最沒有用的醫事人員查詢系統醫生你沒在啦 臨近的諮詢我有跟他說啦你們查詢這個人是不是醫生喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8389.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8407.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
有可能你們自己系統裡面講的啦這有醫生執照有可能不一定會準啦因為要醫生同意要放上去查詢才查詢得到所以你查詢不到的不代表他不是合格醫師當時的查詢系統就是這樣這樣這個查詢系統要從什麼無照也查不到 有照也可能查不到然後我現在跟你講說為什麼不需要有法源依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8418.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8444.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
一直在講要醫師懲戒決定書出來了 要等判決確定了我沒有要求這樣嘛 當然判決確定都一定要放進去我自己要求你 在你的醫師查詢系統裡面你可以變相的 我們在講行政責任嘛你可以查詢醫師的時候告訴大家這一個人又公佈他說 他現在正在移送懲戒當中這樣是不是需要法源 一句 請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8449.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8475.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我叫你公布說這一個人有案底而且在移送懲戒當中就像刑法責任一樣他被起訴了不代表他有罪但他被起訴了可不可以公告類似這樣的機制可不可以需要法源依據嗎告訴大家你現在正在查詢的醫師他現在移送懲戒有案子移送懲戒有這麼困難嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8478.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8486.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
還有什麼法源依據保證你說看看醫事查詢系統應該都是有執照的啦喔 我在說什麼你現在還聽不懂跟你們當初你們生意一樣聽不懂醫事查詢系統說你自己上面講的你如果查不懂不代表他不是合格醫師因為要醫師同意被查詢我的查詢系統才會顯示他目前是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8508.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8509.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
你們都不知道你們的系統是一個滑稽的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8512.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8529.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
無法確認醫師是否為合格或不合格的查詢系統笑死人了笑掉人家大牙了已經一兩個月了 跟你們講了保證我現在也不知道我一輩子你現在也不知道你的醫事查詢系統是一個查詢不到醫生是否有執照或真正沒執照的查詢系統你現在也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8540.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8551.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我現在在說的 不要說到查詢系統的問題啦我在說 人醫在查詢系統好 先講 確認第一個 以後每一個查詢 每一個醫師的資料都要在上面可以被查詢的到 可以嗎這個醫事師回答一下醫事師寫那書頂都不用來都這樣每回都不用來 每回喔 不是一回喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8567.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8593.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
來 沒關係你回答是 跟委員報告我們現在確實有在衛福部公開的網站可以讓民眾查詢醫生人的資料但是因為我們也有一個但是了是 我沒有要聽你但是你不要跟我說但是我現在要叫你給人民一個答案以後我在你上面所查詢的醫生的資料通通都查得到是不是合格醫生都可以確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8594.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8597.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這樣而已 我要求這樣而已 可以嗎我只要聽答案我不想聽到你跟我講但是我們目前的資料庫裡面有證照的其實你只要他姓名打進去應該都查得到不要講應該你們以前允許醫生自己說我不想被查詢現在改進了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8616.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8626.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
跟我們報告基本上我們在做這個事還是要兼顧民眾的權益以及我們對各執法的責任啊千菜你在說什麼這樣你這個查詢平台廢掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8627.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8645.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
大家聽下去嗎他說喔我要查詢這一個醫生有沒有合格執照他說要兼顧醫生的個人資料保護個人資料保護涵蓋這一個有合格執照的查詢嗎寶釘你聽下去嗎你聽下去嗎你聽下去嗎你聽下去嗎你聽下去嗎你聽下去嗎你不用改進嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8654.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8659.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
你如果這樣,合格不合格一失,我怎麼確認?我怎麼確認?保證,你給我看,你想好這裡回答,他沒有回答,主席,這個問題就說得太離譜了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8671.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8675.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
好 我們來檢討這個五月諮詢的時候 林靜儀也說非檢討不可 一定要改進林靜儀在這裡講的非檢討不可 一定要改進今天醫事司司長沒來一個代理的副署長來說沒要改變 要維持管中 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8694.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8698.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
叫補充來回答 補充說補充說我會再改進 現在你是當作立法院的立委都空的你叫是這裡都空的 都在這裡親切公共的這個就是藐視國會啦 不怪人家的企業要給你處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8713.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8723.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
補充你不懂得回答 每次出庭都在你這咖聲你這種補充是要跟人家做什麼補充啊沒有啦 委員報告 那個補充他非常非常關心這個事情啦我必須要說明 現在這個補充有兩個部分第一個這林靜儀負責的啊 不是你啊沒有啦 不是啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8738.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8741.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
現在有兩個我們現在目前確實有我們有在處理第一個只要這個如果說這個醫師他是我們的這個他是有公務人員身份的話對不對根據任用法 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8757.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8762.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
還有根據這一個不要再說了啦醫師很多沒公務人員身份所以你的意思就是說你們還沒辦法讓人查詢到底醫生是有白的還是沒白的沒辦法查詢所以你如果說成這樣我就跟你說啦宣佈廢除查詢系統啦跟你們說 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8779.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8784.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
合格的醫生我衛福部沒有要給你查啦沒有資料給你查啦沒有管理給人民查啦有資料你給人民這樣說啦報告委員我們現在目前這個部分有一個現在目前還沒有修法之前馬上就可以做的今天不是在講國會的藐視國會罪今天講的是政治責任大家都可以問責的 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8801.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8803.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
所以我一直注定說不是有藐視國會罪這個有比藐視國會罪還更嚴重的這是政治上的責任喔你來告訴全台灣的人民說合格醫師的查詢系統是無法查詢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8818.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8825.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
包圍 不願意被查詢包圍我們這個一定 我們這個你剛才說兩個啦 第一說要公務人員的 你要讓人查詢啦沒有公務人員的報告委員你先給我解釋一下好不好你再說 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8833.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8850.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
有關查詢我們這個馬上做這個裡面簽到就是說我們會折承那個地方這邊就是社會局跟衛生局這邊的整個那個整個機構馬上做每一個都可以查詢的到是不是有合格的嗎我不要你們再給我維持原狀這個有個資法的問題嗎個資法 再來啊個資法可以阻卻你是否有執照嗎你來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8861.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8889.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
個資法可以用來掩護然後阻卻人民去查詢這個醫生是不是合法的醫生你講這種話你講出來你是要個資法還是個資法個資法就一條來你講出來我聽看好那跟委員做報告原來這個查詢的目的是你只要知道這個醫師的名字你就可以上去查他有沒有醫師資格目前我們原來系統設計就是查詢系統就是這樣的一個設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8891.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8893.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
您在說什麼您在講的應該是我們在網頁上可以讓民眾公開去查詢什麼叫做我剛才問的你們是要醫師願意被查詢才能查詢得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8903.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8907.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
你這個副署長 你什麼都不知道 還在這裡亂講你當做立委 跟你一樣打架不清楚嗎我諮詢過林靜儀了 林靜儀要聽話你現在部長聽不聽 副市長也聽不聽現在女市長或許聽得懂 但是那不是你的業務主管你也沒有權利當代表你的衛福部工委 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8931.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8934.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
只有一個這麼簡單 合格醫師查詢系統是一個沒有辦法查詢的系統這個問題你就撒不清楚主席 我要問的 今天要問的問題 這只是1%的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8947.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8954.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
主席很不好意思 我只是說因為這一路的規劃都有參與所以有跟您報告說它初始的本意是這樣的設計對 您剛剛講的這個部分我們做一下確認在各支法授權的範圍內我們可不可以完全的把個人的資料做在網站中間揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8970.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8978.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
醫療法被要授予的醫師到底有沒有執照 要被查詢 可被查詢 個資法哪一條阻卻了我們要問衛福部這個醫生到底有醫生的執照 是不是合計的醫生沒有個資法會阻卻這一種行為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8991.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9001.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
報告委員因為各自法的主管權責也不在法務部所以在這個部分你不跟我說現在以前是法務部現在好像我們在問國發會國發會有人來嗎現在是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9006.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9009.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這麼簡單的問題 整個政府沒辦法 我就決定這麼簡單的問題 這要做到保證處長 副處長沒辦法 我就回答你現在是在裝瘋喔包委員 我想那個 前面 以前是這樣子啦那我想 未來我們一定來把它處理這個我已經聽過了 很久很久很久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9031.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9034.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
主席 我不曉得怎麼諮詢了我不能用火冒山葬這四個字來形容我此時的狀況什麼專報 大家青菜公公都什麼都不知道阿也說白菜 又搞不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9058.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9063.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我告訴你喔 我們立法院這裡大家都聽過都聽得很清楚 只有你們搞不清楚這樣啊 就你們做補定 補定我來做補定叫我們喔 議事人員咧 我們的主席來做沒有搞不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9072.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9084.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我們很清楚好 那你告訴我你告訴我你的醫事查詢系統可以查到每一個醫生都是不是合法有執照的人不是大聲大聲就好你就被他暗控你 你搞不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9091.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9107.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
你那系統根本就是有問題你聽不清楚你你現在是怎樣自己搞不清楚在說白人聽不清楚我們很清楚啊哪裡很清楚啊你以前就是因為公司法的問題如果大家在乎我們當然來檢討這樣可以嗎對啊我就是問你啊我就是問你檢討什麼 侮辱什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9116.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9128.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
你現在是在做什麼?你現在是在欺騙人民?你現在是在嚴肅人醫?你現在這麼大聲?你現在有這招沒這招醫生查詢不出來?這個就是你醫事查詢系統的問題有合計沒合計查不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9139.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9142.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
你的諮詢系統沒理由我去查詢他會顯示這個人是不是有合格醫師執照無法確定因為他可能不願意被查詢應該是說沒有放在公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9164.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9184.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
他不願意被查詢,就不公開所以這個醫生到底是無合格的醫生,還是無合格,不可以被查詢,無法確認什麼叫做不合格的醫生咧,他就有拒絕,除了他有犯什麼罪,那當然另外的處理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9185.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9189.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
應該是這樣吧 現在還聽不懂我去查詢邱太元 是不是一個合計的醫生他會跟你說查不到資料 有可能他是沒這招的也有可能他是有這招 但是沒被人說白了那這一個醫事查詢系統 剛剛有留言他如果沒這招 他會叫做醫生啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9212.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9216.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
這樣洗乾就沒有那個...沒有那個雞排的醫生啊你們剛抓到而已這個醫美案來來來醫美案大生牛奶真書面是那個那間診所叫做法瑞才有雞排的醫生假醫事人員怎麼會沒有雞排的醫生怎麼會沒有是你傻不?是你不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9239.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9257.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
你一個部長不知道 不是沒有那個假的醫生你如果能夠提 委員幫委員如果能夠提出證據來看哪一位我們就要查嘛你不能說一位我們 這是制度的問題你現在 你的制度有問題啊中華民國的國會醫生這角 才能叫做醫生啊來啊你沒辦法查啊 我要去查是不是醫生 我要去找他查啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9266.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9270.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我要去哪裡查?是不是你這個醫事平台要查?但是查出來沒有告訴我具體答案查出來是說有可能他是合計的,但是他沒有要你查 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9279.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9290.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
啊我查你這個醫事平台在做什麼過去很多人都是這樣沒關係啊我們現在你如果說那個我們的研究說這個你會改進啊你會改進啊你還在這裡做什麼你不改進還在這裡賣立委我都賣立委你剛才有沒有在這裡賺多了賣立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9300.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9307.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
你們的系統有瑕疵然後你說要改進 林鄭月娥一個半月前也說要改進 夠改進沒有 她說我五月執行 她說一個月內要改進我們五月二十九號 當時執行又不到一個禮拜就馬上召集開會啦我們要看到改進的結果啊因為你在這裡 之前的時候跟我們說一個月啊之前的時候跟我們說一個月啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9329.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9334.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
一個位我是要研議要怎麼做好一個平台你去把諮詢領帶出來他說一個位你要改進不是說一個位要研議這如果今天要研究就是要補我現在這只是一個祈禱而已我要查詢人醫跟他說公佈這個醫生移送懲戒當中更有困難 需要什麼法源依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9354.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9378.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
第一個 第二個 如果這個醫生是不是合格醫生他不願意被公佈 不讓人家查詢還談什麼註記啊 還談什麼移送懲戒當中啊還談什麼判刑確定啊你那個醫事查詢平台 連醫生都不見得百分之百查得到我還在裡面談什麼改進啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9382.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9394.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們會在更公開的部分來公開第一個公開就是要先確定每一個醫生都在可以被查詢的是否為合格醫生的平台裡面每一個查不到的就確認他不是合格的嘛你現在不是每一個醫生啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9407.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9419.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
你的覆蓋率可能只有八成七成欸我們不知道欸我來研究看齁在這個法律的立場上面怎麼樣來符合齁林靜儀也這樣說我現在要問的是說一月質詢你跟我說四月會完成五月質詢你說六月可以做得到現在七月再質詢說你如果還沒做到你又說八月啊如果到九月就要說再質詢一次現在因為你一直拖一直拖一直拖 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9436.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9441.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
沒有啦,這要依法辦理嘛我現在跟你們說哪裡法律有障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9443.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9467.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
連違反兒少法都可以直接公布姓名的你們為什麼沒有公布醫療懲罰它就有一定的規定嘛法律就規定了那是在兒少法或保護法那這個醫師法醫療法這個部分我們是不是兒少法沒有阻卻醫生不能夠被公布喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9469.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9480.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
兒少法對兒少侵害的這就是這個不兒少侵害的部分他已經是特別法了喔特別法優先於普通法喔要公布餒你們都沒有公布餒 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9484.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9491.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
如果確定是判決 有啊 確定的啊事實上你們的大問題 因為你去日內瓦你沒聽到你們的大問題就是從來沒有用過醫師法25條第4款 移送醫生交付懲戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9502.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9517.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
有史以來你們的包庇人醫全部都是用破刑確定加移送懲戒所以我一開始就說你們是這樣包庇的從來沒有用違反醫學倫理移送懲戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9520.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9540.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
沒關係 這沒關係 現在問你們 現在你們說沒有法源依據 我覺得說每一個醫事人員後面 因為人百分之一九十九點到的醫生 都是假牌的醫生 都是修幾件修法的醫生 你就為了那一顆老鼠屎 你不願意公佈 然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9541.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9554.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我們沒有不願意公佈 我是要依法辦理你就沒有公佈啊 依法 兒少相關的法律要公佈 你怎麼不公佈兒少的話當然要公佈啊你們沒有公佈啦 公佈在哪裡 你告訴我 你公佈在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9556.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9557.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
在這裡胡說八道沒有一個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9587.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9608.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
哪一個哪一個有法援醫去的你都沒有公布請教委員你調查的這麼清楚可不可以告訴我一下哪一位醫師是侵犯到青少年而沒有公布的來我上一次質詢質詢林靜儀的時候就有說過了可以再講一次嗎我馬上來處理我馬上來處理那個印象頭的手機 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9618.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9620.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
沒關係我們絕對不枉不仲你要先確定這個醫師能不能在你的醫事平台網頁上可以查詢得到第一個第二個第二個第二個第二個你要公布在哪裡你的外部部哪裡可以被公布 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9646.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9668.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
蛤?你要公布在你的哪個平台?這個是每一個階段都會有處理嘛從醫院本身那如果他是屬於醫學院醫院大學我想這個部分我們已經執行過好幾次了然後再送醫療程這個部分每一個部分都有它法律上的規定在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9670.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9689.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那上次我們也執行到台大 是不是你速度上有比較慢法律上的規定台灣大學的主祕 台灣大學的院長也都親自來這邊報告了嘛你現在都說成這樣你上面就沒有在 你回去看我的執行那依照法律程序在處理 你們就是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9691.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9702.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
輕輕放下一施法25條使用第四款有用過嗎?這五年有用過嗎?這十年有用過嗎?舉例給我聽都等判刑確定的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9706.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9721.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
是跟委員報告醫師法第25條懲戒是地方來執行那我問的問題是說用第4款移送懲戒的資料給我什麼好 什麼好確實有違反醫療倫理被懲戒的這個部分我們蒐集資料以後會後提供什麼 你在說什麼我問你們兩個你現在跟我說我們回去再查我問你們兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9736.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9756.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
在這裡也不用過啦好啦 我們一個禮拜之內好不好什麼一個禮拜之內送給委員你不是要聽我未成年的這個資料嗎蕭醫師在這裡 有聽到有人人事時地物都有 醫生的名字也有那有沒有接觸過 請公佈 先跟你們說你們有跟他們公佈沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9759.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9768.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
跟大聲講到這麼大聲跟講到這麼大聲我不知道你哪來的底氣為你行政的你們這樣相包庇這些狼醫還能夠講得這麼大聲哪來的底氣啊我們只是覺得大家醫療體系說全國的醫師那麼認真在照顧病人不能受到污衊新北市 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9784.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9807.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
職業醫生來明知甲為16歲以上未滿18歲的少年等等我看一下醫生名稱被告孔凡錦孔凡錦赫赫有名還累犯他已經被廢除證書了在廢除證書以前有公佈嗎有公佈嗎有公佈嗎你公佈在哪裡還有別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9813.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9816.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我們都在走程序才會到達會照的這個最嚴厲的處罰了青菜公共你們在走什麼程序你們在用醫師法第25條第一款你沒有用第四款還有一個心臟科的 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9832.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9838.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
心臟科醫生,你自己喔,他換你這孫子,你換他這孫子,不當一回事,你的醫師是兩邊啊,你換他就沒來,什麼都搞不清楚,醫師是市長,有什麼,兩邊都沒來 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9852.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9867.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
沒來沒關係,他會走不遠,要回去檢討,也沒檢討你以為在這裡1月的時候說4月會做得到,5月的時候說給我到6月現在7月了還沒做到,說給我到8月8月了還說等一下到時候就說9月 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9870.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9883.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我們非常誠懇的來處理這件事情啊 請委員放棄你的誠懇 你從剛才你剛才丟起來你們完全 你搞不清楚然後還還在這裡對立法院這麼大聲沒有啦我告訴你 政治上的意識形態上的我有跟你講到跟你憂鬱無關的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9896.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9913.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
但是你用詞真的傷害到人家啦這個我想你做這種傷害人民 傷害北方的事情我不能代替人民來這裡面我哪一句用詞傷害到你們來 我哪一句話不是事實傷害到你們我哪一句話 你舉例給我聽我哪一句話讓你覺得我傷害到你哪一句話 我講哪一句話不恰當我給你道歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9924.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9940.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我講哪一句話不是事實我給你道歉哪一句我想不用啦這個沒有你剛才講得清楚多一句話我說的不是事實我給你道歉多一句話我措辭不當傷害到你大家公平大家覺得我有錯我公開在這裡給你道歉你不可以在這裡污衊立委我多一句話你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9953.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9957.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
大家公平我給你道歉還是說今天你說不出來我要你來污衊抹黑栽贓立委我們沒有做這種事來你直接指控我我的言語不當傷害到你們啊我哪一段哪一句啊你責罵我們搞不清楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9979.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9989.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
幫我們這麼努力 同仁那麼努力你有搞得清楚嗎你有搞得清楚嗎不要講醫界 跟醫界無關是你邱部長帶領的衛福部副司長搞不清楚次長不是呂健德 次長負責的是你到現在還搞不清楚是你個人 你個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10006.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10025.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
林靜儀剛開始也聽不懂 後來他聽懂了林靜儀只有兩句話 他說這是不對的我們一定要改 非改不可當時林靜儀就是這麼說而你今天在這裡翻盤跳腳我們沒有翻盤 我們會努力沒有啦好啦 沒關係啦 我跟你搞不清楚叫我傷害你們但要看你是不是真的搞不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10036.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10038.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那你就真的搞不清楚我要談什麼傷害我告訴你兒少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10048.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10075.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
季孟宏來新竹國泰醫院心臟科判決確定但是在判決確定以前沒有人知道他是狼醫而且依照這個醫師這個兒少相關的權益要公佈姓名 你們公佈在哪裡告訴大家這個人是狼醫 他現在調照了沒還有沒有繼續在執業 有沒有有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10079.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10092.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我上次質詢都講得一清二楚是 這位醫師有經過新竹醫師懲戒委員會進行處理然後他在新竹已經停業了他還有沒有執照 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10094.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10106.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這個我們做最後的確認 你不知道他有沒有公佈他性騷擾未成年的孩子有沒有被公佈法律有沒有說可以公佈 有那你們有沒有給他公佈他是狼醫有嗎 沒有啦你們有什麼系統可以公佈 沒有啦通通都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10122.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10143.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
移送懲戒 你們都用判刑確定才移送 沒有用違反醫學倫理 這我要說幾百遍啦然後呢 你們的醫事查詢系統 我要查詢是不是人醫 沒得查詢我要查詢他是不是一個合格的醫師 你們的查詢系統不精準 查不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10145.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10154.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
今天你說這麼多時間 我不是要自尊者啦好啦 大家知道啦 你不是要自尊者 但是把很多問題都提出來不斷地都可以理解這個情形啦 好不好對啦 一個禮拜內 應該是針對你們所提出來的沒有啦 我們是要看他 當時要改善改進啦 要做到好我不是要聽他說 他要開始研議啦 他已經聽半年了 沒有人啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10170.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10175.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
他會講說他沒有法源依據啊我沒有叫你公告他我叫你說他現在移送懲戒當中有沒有法律上的困難這個醫生現在移送懲戒當中就是這樣子告訴大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10192.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10197.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
因為他有公務人員身份根據任用法還有服務法其實事實上是應該如果有重大情勢的話按照公務人員其實事實上是有這一個可以有 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10212.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10216.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
可以那個進行停職這個執行機關是在台大醫院那我們會來督促不是啦你說的那是停職啊我現在講是人民的知情權民眾要有知的權利我要第一個我要知道每一個醫生是不是都是合格的醫生我要衛福部的查詢系統通通都可以精準正確的查詢的到第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10238.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10247.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個醫生是不是有被判刑還沒調照然後他移送懲戒都要被看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10249.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10272.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我們要知情權你在醫療體系這些少數的老鼠屎破壞醫生的形象然後呢還是不斷還是有人那我去看醫生我不知道我都要自保自保之前我先查詢一下這醫生有沒有前科查詢一下這個醫生有沒有被交付懲戒查詢一下這個醫生是不是合格的醫生 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10274.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10275.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
為什麼我們要這種知情群障礙會這麼的高門檻這麼高呢障礙這麼大呢這是不應該的 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10283.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10303.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
好,剛剛就有特別提醒衛福部,第一個就是那個平台嘛,第二個是你在什麼時候就開始要停止他執業嘛,不管他有具備公務人員身份還是沒有具備公務人員身份,應該都有一套的SOP才對啦。停止是為了不讓他繼續傷害別人。所以這是一個星期內就必須要有完整性的作為跟委員會做報告,就這樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10304.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10324.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
但是停止不代表人民就知道喔你停止他我們怎麼知道所以你的平台要包含他是不是停止當中他交付懲戒當中他在職業當中對不對好一個星期內喔所有座位好謝謝請問謝謝抱歉接下來請圖卷紀委來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10338.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10345.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
好謝謝主席那請我們部長跟社工室市長來請邱部長還有市長各位好 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10350.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10377.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那我請問一下那最近因為剛好我們今天也是討論社會救助法那剛好我們也有在講一萬現金還稅漁民這個問題那剛好我們賴總統有在說他說這個一萬塊對人民的生活沒有太大的幫助可是因為我們在地方基層跑其實我們發現其實社會上還是蠻多人需要這筆一萬塊的不知道你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10381.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10400.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我想這個是要經過審慎的來評估,那看怎麼樣既然有這樣一筆錢,怎麼樣讓國家的發展、人民的得到更好的一個健康照護跟得到更多的幸福感,所以我想我們政府也非常用心 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10401.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10424.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
再討論看看怎麼樣也許用的方法會讓得到的更多啦對沒關係部長我只是反映說其實我們在基層跑發現其實民眾對這1萬塊是蠻重視的也是表示現在一般民眾覺得這1萬塊對他們是蠻有幫助的好那根據我們行政院主計總處這個資料台灣的相對貧窮率 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10428.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10447.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們常年都維持在12%左右但是我們的社會福利制度下能夠取得低收入資格的我們發現不到2%那是不是表示我們在政府眼中我們要取得這個貧窮弱勢的資格上好像是不是有一些困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10451.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10464.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我想這個是定義上的問題,等一下請理事跟委員報告但是至少我們在社會的救治、救助方面其實已經到達8.6%所以照顧上市是不輸給其他國家那至於我們剛剛這個貧窮縣這個部分,請理事 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10473.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10500.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
感謝圖委員的關心我跟委員解釋我們那個貧窮的測量有的所謂絕對貧窮跟相對貧窮您現在所引用是所謂相對貧窮相對貧窮在國際的上面是使可支配所得的百分之 OECD 國家是百分之五十台灣是定百分之六十這個我要第一點要說明所以根據這個標準全世界 relative property這個是一個學界中位數的百分之六十對沒錯 可支配所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10502.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10516.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那如果以這樣的一個標準的話我跟委員報告全世界大家都是用貧窮線而不是用那個所謂那個相對貧窮那如果以這個指標來說的話台灣確實我們現在目前你說是12德國大概是18%英國大概15%但是現在問題來了現在問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10521.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10542.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
委員現在說的是那個所謂的貧窮線那個貧窮線我們現在目前定下來沒錯像委員說的低收中低收加起來是2.56但是我現在要說的就是說我們除了這個低收中低收之外另外還有中低收老人生活津貼身心障礙者津貼還有弱勢家庭輔助這個零零總總加起來像剛剛部長向委員報告的是8.6喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10544.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10566.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那日本的社會救助的領取者才1.56而已現在我們重點就是說其實我們覺得我們這個社會救助基本上還是有很大的空間因為我們覺得常常他們要申請一些低收入戶一些制度上一些門檻上讓他們都沒有辦法去達到所以我們去了解你看這個相對貧窮數這個相對貧窮數12%就大概有270萬人那我們目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10574.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10583.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
低收入身體職業資格大概只有照顧到列車的大概只有25萬人所以我們覺得這個審查制度上可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10584.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10603.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
有一些問題啦當然我們可能是防止有人做假但是據我們了解好像還是有很多部分其實像真正請得到低收戶的其實他的生活其實是蠻富裕的像我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10604.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10617.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我們這個投影我們在網路上有看到那大家都在討論像新聞報導裡面有很多說這個低收入戶我們看民眾對於這政策的評價跟刻板印象所以他們對於這個補助制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10621.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10644.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
確實漏接了很多實際貧窮的人那真的很多需要幫助救助的可是他去申請這低收入戶中低收入戶又請不到可是明明經濟能力很好甚至常常開豪車的人去去領這個低收入戶的問題所以我們想了解我們衛福部門有沒有掌握這個問題到底出在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10646.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10672.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
好 我想那個等一下喔 理事來跟各位報告我們會去查緝啦 絕對尤其是我們要求要去督查這個不會有開豪車零低收這個部分其實這個喔 這個在基層大家都常常在詬病啦其實表示說我們很多人真的很困難可是要請都請不到 很多人其實他很有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10673.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10697.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
但是他知道這個制度上的缺失他就有辦法明明經濟狀況很好又可以去領這個低收入戶其實據我們了解他這個問題應該是出在我們低收入戶跟中低收入戶這個審查的門檻還有我們地方政府社會局這個量能的不足所以有造成這樣的問題所以我希望衛福部能夠來了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10701.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10709.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
非常感謝委員的一個推詢我想也是三個重點第一個就是社會救助其實根據地方自治法 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10713.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10743.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
地方自治法裡面的規定事實上是屬於地方自治的業務所以這個確實是屬於地方的社會局跟鄉鎮公所所以這裡面我想最重要的一個精神應該就是說你應該要補助的就要拿到補助不應該補助就不應該拿到所以這裡面就有所謂精準的這一個補助的問題那這裡面會牽涉到幾個問題第一個就是剛剛委員剛剛所說的查核的這一個機制還有查核的人員這裡面確實我在地方也曾經當過社會局長我知道確實救助科這邊社工科這邊的一個人力上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10744.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10768.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
這個我想委員的這一個指出非常非常重要這個我們確實會來加強這部分人力應該有的補給希望這部分能夠衛福部來重視一下那針對我們社會救助法第4條跟第15條我們低收戶的認定是採納家庭的總收入還有家庭的總財產以及撫養能力等等那這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10769.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10774.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
低收入跟中低收入戶的資格審查我們是以家戶為單位是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10776.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10801.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
好 那乙家護衛單位那我們舉一個例子那如果有一個長者他是收入狀況是符合低收入戶的資格但是他的子女收入過高或者有房產但是如果這長者的子女並沒有履行這個撫養的義務但是他家戶的總收入是超標的 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10802.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10828.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那針對這部分有辦法照顧到這個長者嗎非常感謝委員沒錯那個第一點我們現在目前整個這一個計算單位就是以household以家戶這個家戶裡面其實事實上最重要就是要計算他的這個收入跟支出那個收入的部分主要就是你剛剛委員剛剛所說的事實上一個是動產一個是不動產我們現在的機制有辦法照顧到這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10829.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10857.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
子女沒有在撫養他可是子女收入很高那如果這兩個重點第一個按照我們的民法的規定其實事實上還是有互付這一個撫養之義務所以這個沒辦法這民法的規定就是這樣另外第二點確實如果出現您剛剛所說的那個情況的話那我們裡面有一個所謂的539條款就是說這裡面如果有同居共住但是呢他的這一個這個直系親屬比如他的子女這個有一些相關問題我們可以透過確實可以透過社工 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10859.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10883.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這一個專業評估然後把他豁免這個我們是有這個機制的對 就是特殊的情況啦所以可以處理是可以處理 但原則上根據我剛剛所說的民法 親屬偏還有另外根據我們的社會福利基本法基本上都在規定就是說有這個家庭責任所以基本上這個父母養我們我們要奉養父母這本來就是我們天經地義的事啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10884.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10900.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
你知道我說針對這部分我們衛福部這邊有沒有什麼就是我剛剛說的就是我剛剛說的539我們有一個所謂539條款第5條第3項第9款的一個規定這裡面有一個所謂除外所以范雲委員他裡面他有因為有時候這個豁免 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10901.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10927.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
光個別的社工恐怕壓力也很大所以像范域委員他有建議就是說我們是不是組成一個委員會用專案的一個審查這個我們也覺得方向上面可以來朝這個方向來嚴禮所以我們是基本上想了解一下對於我們修法這方向希望能夠照顧到這一方面的漏接的這些長者當然謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10929.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10956.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
還有我們社會救助法有一個收入的認定中有一項我覺得民眾一直有在批評就是所謂的虛擬收入就是這個人他本身有具備工作能力但是即使他沒有實際收入好像我們還是以最低的工資來算他是有這個收入是不是這樣子所以就是虛擬收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10958.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10973.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
虛擬收入的算法就是這樣正確的說法應該涉算所得不是虛擬收入那所以針對這部分喔那對於很多街友長期失業者還有單親照顧者那是不是會排除到他們的收益權 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10975.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11003.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
包委如果說有這樣的一個部分的話我們其實在現在目前本部所研擬的這個新法裡面我們確實對於這個部分我們有來做檢討那當然這裡面我也要跟委員報告就是這裡面會有一些實際執行上的問題有三個部分第一個最重要事實上就是說對於這些因為陳如剛委員所說有的人可能是塞變族來捕走那這裡面可能就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11004.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11033.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
因為台灣的地下經濟老實說按照經濟學者的估計有些人認為到三成有些人認為到四成那這裡面可能有包括攤販包括無一定雇主等等這些那還有甚至也包括有一些專業人員那他他可能他可能也在這個這個範疇裡面那我們現在目前的做法就是說好這個我們也認為用這種所謂設算可能有它不合理性那所以我們現在目前也有一些相關的一些的一些處理方式比如你可以打個就是最低工資比如你打個一定的折扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11034.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11052.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
或者說特別是針對像您剛剛所說街友街友的話部分確實這裡面可能要折扣可能要應該要更高就是說我們這地公司可能來做這一個相關的一個的一個的一個涉算那這個部分我們確實都有來都有在在做研議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11053.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11078.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
對 那我們現在提出就是說希望我們社公司針對這個虛擬收入這個制度去研議一下還有針對我們地方政府是不是可以彈性設計這個配套設施並且由中央來加強審核讓它透明化那我們在修法這部分應該可以來研議討論一下好的那因為我們希望像 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11078.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11101.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
這部分這些問題我們看到現在很多的數據明顯就是代表存在著有很多製度性的排除造成很多的真正貧窮的人一直跟我們反映他去請這個低收入戶中低收入戶真的都請不到可是據我們了解他的狀況真的生活上有很大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11102.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11124.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
然後變成有一些生活又很富裕的又請得到所以你看網路啊一些報導他們在討論這部分問題我也希望衛福部針對剛剛提的幾個地方重點來研議一下是不是針對這有一些缺失我們來加以改善好的 謝謝委員指教謝謝圖元 謝謝部長 次長接下來請王振旭委員來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11139.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11142.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
好 謝謝主席我們有請部長來 請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11158.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11171.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
今天是在討論社會救助法成門這個召委排的這樣的主題引起了很多迴響我相信其實在台灣在民主民主制度的運作之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11173.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11189.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
往這個福利國的方向持續邁進那對於不管是透過健保的協助整個制度的建立等等的事實上讓人民的生活可以至少有一定的這個保障能夠希望能夠朝著福利國的方向來前進 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11191.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11205.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
早上聽您的報告也知道說有一些處理的進度其實我們在今年就有一個提案針對總預算的部分有一個提案就是後來變成一個主決議就是針對於社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11207.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11227.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
這個有關的救助的業務上面期待說有更好的一些研議的過程就是今天我們所看到相關的內容那我們所收到的回覆裡面就是表示說目前透過各界持續來研議民間倡議團體跟社會各界對這樣的這個有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11229.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11244.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
社會救助法的一些修法的意見那到目前為止是有很多委員的版本的一些想法跟具體的要求那這部分請問目前衛福部有沒有相關的研議進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11245.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11266.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
所以我們本部將在經濟安全、脫貧自利跟社會投資的核心思維下來持續研議兼顧減性便民、公平客觀、擴大照顧弱勢然後財政可負擔性,提出務實一直在研議務實可行的修法內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11268.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11293.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
因為我們知道說今年都一直延會到8月底嘛那召委也許很希望能夠針對這個進度呢能夠把相關的社會救助法也希望10年沒有調整嘛希望說有進步所以這邊可能不管是願版或不版的一些內容也期待能夠盡快的讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11294.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11305.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
社會了解,在討論的時候可以更聚焦一些再來就是家戶所得平均分配制度,剛才有很多委員講過 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11307.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11325.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
因為依照第四條是有規範的是所謂低收入戶的一些基本的費用那第四之一是針對中低收入戶不過它的概算就是剛才都講得很清楚家庭總收入平均分配全家的人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11326.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11353.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
就是分子分母是有很完整的這個定義那不過那個定義就比我和民法還有關係包括說你家裡是二十人住在一起家庭都是大家庭嘛你有血緣關係住在一起大家互相的協助有收入大家跪在一起那有這些需要使用的時候呢就全家來分攤這是非常清楚的不過我們也知道這個社會改變太快了 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11355.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11374.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
整個社會結構、人口的改變好像有血親或同一個父親也不一定會住在一起現在社務因為血親的關係把它放在一起可是它又不見得能夠有好的一個互相生活的這種協助條件但是沒有那麼短暫剛才處長說的539條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11379.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11404.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
再來,這剛好什麼比較好的辦法,大家在思考的時候,目前部裡有沒有這些方面希望能夠前進的方向?好,謝謝委員,是免得你是來報告非常感謝王正旭委員對本案的關心,這個確實就像陳陸委員剛剛所說的,我們這裡面就是第五條第五條的這一個第一項裡面確實就是規範,這個裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11407.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11428.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
屬於所謂同居共財者的那個計算方式但是也有一些事實上我們那個第三另外我們有一些除外的規定譬如說以前說你女兒女兒你女兒你女兒你女兒你女兒你女兒你女兒你女兒你女兒這個我們確實在這裡面我們也有做相關的一個排除那最重要的一個就是說因為老實說申請社會救助這個情況老實說 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11433.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11450.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我們這裡面有另外一個就是剛剛跟委員報告的就是我們有第五條第三項第九款這裡面我們就會授權這裡面的承辦的這個社工他在做完評估之後如果有特殊的情況的話事實上是可以有一些排除豁免的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11450.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11464.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
是 還是需要地方政府處理嘛對 沒錯我們現在有想到地方政府包括這些辛苦的社工去處理這些問題的時候有沒有回報到中央說遇到什麼比較具體的困難要怎麼改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11466.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11479.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
有 報告委員因為我跟委員報告就是以前我在台中做過社會局長嘛這個裡面我們會透過幾個機制第一個就是說社工他們自己本身都會有一些自己的評估評估 仿事評估然後其實有這個情況都要專案簽給局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11481.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11496.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
他來做一個最後的一個確認那我們其實我們平常也我們大概部長的一個主持之下我們固定也都有那個社會證還有社證的一個聯繫匯報那像這聯繫匯報我們也會把這些相關的一個一些樣態拿出來做一些討論就是說有一些真的是雖然特例可是特例多了我們以後可能會來作為修法來作為未來我們現在目前修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11510.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11522.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
的一個根據所以實務上是可以解決是可以解決比較都會區的跟比較非都會區住留問題有同樣的問題解決問題的方式會不會有一個多元的機制來解決這個困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11528.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11549.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這個確實沒錯因為確實像在特別在像城市的話對不對像都會區有一些就是說他土地持份就土地持份的那個問題還有另外一個就是說剛剛所說的所謂劣跡人口的那部分可能也會有一些確實也會有一些城鄉之間的差異是像吳林關大家都是都很多土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11549.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11557.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
一直噴一直噴 到底算不算低收就很麻煩所以希望將來你檢討這個問題的時候把這些細節也能夠考量進去我們現在目前公佈的新法裡面這些樣態都有來做一些相關的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11569.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11584.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好 好 再來就是剛才剛才也說的這個虛擬收入啦虛擬收入我們也知道它是一個好像是收入不過這個收入是被分配到的根據五之一看起來有工作能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11585.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11595.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
還有沒有就業的人他基本上就會說你就是有這一筆的收入這部分就要調整了要調整來奉獻這塊錢來調整是因為看起來怪怪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11600.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11623.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
怪怪的就是說 什麼人有工作能力的認定你一天要告訴他 你就是因為你有工作能力你不去做工作 你也要自己收入 要省你錢其實他可能也不去做工作 他也沒有這個收入不過帳面上就是有這個收入當然我們不希望說 因為他為了要領這個費用所以就用選擇那種本來有工作能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11624.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11634.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
不替社會做事情不替家庭做事情這個當然也是要去處理不過這百分之百再麻煩看有什麼更好的方式我們從各個角度對待考量來調整而且很精準的 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11639.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11659.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
再來就是因為我通常看癌症病人的時候有一些低收或者是中低收的患者他們就覺得很辛苦尤其是在積極治療癌症的這段時間常常要奔波在醫院跟家庭社區之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11659.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11682.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以說衍生的費用相對還是會比平常會更加多一些我們現在看到第12條就是針對於低收的這些成員什麼問題的時候可以有40%以內的這些增加的補助當然這些感情的範疇這也是我們關心的還有包括其他相對的重症的部分大家會擔心說你現在為了要捏這個錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11685.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11705.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
所以我就特別去延長我這個重症期間的這個期限當然這個就是一種反淘汰就是一個不好的行為不過他其實如果是在積極治療階段這就是有一些方法我們要來把這個真的有數的過程可以讓他有比較好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11706.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11727.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
這個補助,這個補助就是適當時間嘛這個當然在處理起來主管機關就會比較辛苦一點啦這部份不知道有什麼比較好的方式可以研議看看嗎這召委也很關心我想那個中大會拿中大生命塔的確都需要我們來照顧那在健保署或者是在醫界方面也會來檢討在什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11731.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11747.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
就是說一段時間一段時間的問題嘛這中間在中大傷病的治療或在持卡的期間我想應該給他們更多的照顧跟補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11751.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11769.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
因為剛剛委員其實有講了 他還是有點道德風險所以我們需要進一步的演繹是啊 這看我們有什麼比較好的方式回到這個積極治療期啦這個期間可能是比較需要大家幫忙嘛他如果把這個平台的好事 當然對社會來說就比較有幫忙的 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11773.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11788.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
最大的部分就是我們如果經過一個特別的疫情那段時間都特別預算或是問題來介紹一些生活的輔助尤其是對中低受負的民眾如果遇到疫情的時候現在16-3 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11793.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11803.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
國內經濟情形發生重大變化當然疫情會不會就造成國內經濟的情形發生重大變化這當然是有連動的如果發生嚴重疫情可以有更具體的方式規範進來的話那是不是也能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11813 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11835.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
協助這些中立收入戶的這些民眾有比較好的短期的生活補助這當然會牽涉到各種法令的聯動不過我想很多委員也很期待那些東西可以讓同步來處理的話期待就是讓他有更周延的一些立法的過程 好不好好的 謝謝委員指教這個很重要拜託 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11840.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11862.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
好 謝謝王委員 謝謝部長 謝謝次長接下來請鄭天才委員來做詢問主席 各位委員 有請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11868.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11868.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11902.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11915.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
好部長今天審查社會救助法社會救助法從上一次修正是104年12月30號已經經過將近10年的時間這10年來其實上台灣各種狀況已經有很大的變遷所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11929.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11942.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
衛福部有針對社會救助法有做研議修正嗎是 我們一直在研議什麼時候可以提出你們的行政院版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11945.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11962.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們是這樣子,在這個法案我們在經濟安全、脫貧自利跟社會投資的核心思維下來一直在研議,怎麼樣兼顧簡正便民、公平客觀、擴大照顧弱勢還有財政可負擔的情況之下,一直在修法這個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11965.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11982.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
最主要就是因為今天召委安排這個審查他前面也提到希望有很多委員也提到希望這個行政院有版本所以這個部分不宜拖了尤其是這個社會福利基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11984.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12012.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
112年5月24號公布施行也經過了這個兩年多了所以這個社會福利基本法他不是只有社會居住了他還包含了其他的社會津貼福利服務醫療保健國民就業社會住宅等等他包含了比較廣所以這個部分是確實是應該要因應現代的社會來做一個修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12014.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12029.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
就幾個例子,以社會居住法第11條來講,生活輔助以現金給付委員者,但因實際需要,得委託適當的社會居住機構、社會福利機構或其他家庭予以收容。 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12031.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12049.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
而這個第三項第一項現金給付所定的金額每四年調整一次這個都需要檢討是不是四年太久是不是要收短這個支持嗎可以收短嗎支持喔我們往兩年來演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12051.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12077.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
好這個部分今天這個也有委員提出這樣的一個修正的條文希望能夠支持這個而不是說一定要等到可以跟召委這個討論不必等到這個行政院板送來是不是可以先審查這個可以支持的一個相關的條文好這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12079.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12099.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
我常常去搭火車,部長你應該也常常去搭高鐵,台北車站,我們常常去台北車站我是認為是世界奇觀,其他我們出國到其他國家,就沒有這樣,到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12102.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12116.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
所以這個部分都是需要去檢討怎麼樣去協助去解決這個無家可歸的到底是什麼因素請教一下衛福部有去了解過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12120.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12139.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那個其實我跟理事長在冬天的時候,都有到那邊整個去送給他們溫暖那當然社工這個部分一定是很了解,非常了解他們每一個為什麼要住到那邊的原因那我想地方政府也都陪同一直在 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12140.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12160.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
長期在注意到這個問題,那我想我們很希望雖然委員所提的是台灣的一個情景其實我以前在日本念書的時候,你是那個新宿國外面他們也是相當多啦,那我想都是世界各國都是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12162.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12184.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我說日本呢?我有一段時間沒去看,下次再去看一下。因為你年輕的時候去日本念書,所以這個部分不管是怎麼樣,至少我們台灣呈現出這樣的狀況。我們很多的外勞,他們也覺得奇怪,他們看了也很奇怪。 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12185.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12199.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
新住民啊 不是啊 外勞 外籍勞工啊他們會來假日他們都會來嘛所以這個部分是一個真的是一個是要去解決的問題啊所以這個尤其是根據國際人權兩公約這個國際專家審查委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12205.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12221.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
在2017年也提出了這個結論性的建議明確指出我國政府應制定無家可歸者福利幾人遣法當然如果能夠在社會救助法裡面來先訂專章這個部分來去針對無家可歸者這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12227.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12240.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
舉非正式居住者人數前面調查之後然後現在趕快就要立法了怎麼樣去把它在社會居住法裡面透過專章來去解決這個這樣的一個對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12244.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12257.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
來保障無家者之人潛希望能夠有這樣的無家可歸者之輔助安置輔導以資源的一個專章希望這個衛福部能夠支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12259.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12284.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那個理事跟委員報告一下非常感謝委員對這個問題的關心我跟委員報告我們現在目前根據我們現在目前已經公告的新法裡面我們現在是把有關無家者我們現在目前已經從原先的一條擴增為五條這裡面包括就是說它的這個定例所謂的無家者定例還有另外一個就是說我們也責成地方政府你們相關因為這裡面委員您也了解不光是這一個經濟安全的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12285.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12307.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
而且包括他的居住就業還有他的比如說有身心上面的問題這個都必須還有醫療的部分我們都必須要做全盤的的一個處理我也跟委員報告過去我在台中擔任社會局長的時候我們是推動全國第一個這個遊民的專法我們現在目前就是說會來做一個整個責成地方政府來做相關的一個整個規劃謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12309.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12318.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
既然有了這樣的經驗,就趕快把它拿入法律上的法律好,謝謝好,謝謝鄭天才委員的發言,謝謝部長的答詢下一位請黃國昌委員發言謝謝主席,麻煩有請部長好,請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12344.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12369.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
今天討論有關於社會救助法的修正其實支持問題的核心也就是我國目前社會救助法有關於對於低收入戶世界上面一般所講的貧窮線的定義的檢討跟反省部長知不知道我國目前在貧窮線以下的人口佔全部人口的百分之多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12375.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12384.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
2.56來我們來看一下全世界最大的消化台灣的貧窮率世界最低 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12385.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12408.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
不同的組織有不同的公布但公布出來的結果台灣貧窮率世界最低不僅僅是超越美國英國連韓國日本跟我們都看不到台灣的車尾燈部長你覺得這個有反映現實的狀況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12414.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12427.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
非常感謝黃國昌委員的一個指教我跟委員報告 委員你現在所引用的從美國到日本基本上都是相對貧窮率台灣的部分是社會救助法的領取這兩個是不一樣的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12428.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12454.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
如果說以日本為例,日本的話15.7但是日本的社會救助領取是1.58而台灣的部分,這個部分可能有點問題1.3是屬於低收如果再加計中低的話,那台灣是2.58以上報告,謝謝對啊,那從1.5到2.5,我的問題一樣嘛所以我剛剛跟你講嘛,不同的人不同的單位那他們採集的標準可能不太一樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12455.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12480.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
但我最關心的事情是什麼我最關心的事情是從不同採集的標準從各個不同相關的調查呈現出來的台灣的貧窮線以下人口的比例是不是有反映現實這件事情不是只有我說非常多的學者非常多的NGO都拿出來檢討了我們就從具體的案子來看來 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12485.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12510.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這個是台灣曾經發生過的悲劇包括了一個女失業,10年20在家中,皮包骨剩下30公斤包括張化商兄弟,受到皮包骨、勞大效果、昏迷離世這個都是一個又一個我不願意把它稱之為社會新聞這個是發生在台灣各個角落的悲劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12512.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12533.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
這個悲劇的發生,從政府的角度上面來講第一個該反省的我們的政府說社會安全網現在已經到2.0了嘛不管是社會安全網幾點幾你要問的第一個問題是說他們明明是應該被接住的人為什麼沒有接住部長你知道他們符合低收入戶的條件嗎你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12538.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12563.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
你知道嗎?他們有沒有符合低收入戶的條件?因為這個比較是在2022跟2017的事情所以我不是很了解他們當時是符合我問你社會救助法有關於低收入戶我們對於所謂最低生活上面的需要給他援助的法律上面的基準最後一次修正是什麼時候? |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12567.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12596.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
最後一次修正是什麼時候十年前為什麼我要拿過去這幾年的例子拿出來看2015年界定的基準後來一而再再而三發生這個悲劇告訴我們政府就是什麼這些是該接住沒有被接住的人等到悲劇發生了以後媒體大肆報導大家看了都很難過捐款 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12597.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12624.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
湧入但人都已經走了這些例子難道不應該成為我們痛定思痛要不要檢討貧窮線基準的參考依據嗎從2015年到現在喔我再進一步給你看當初賴清德總統下一頁這是他2023年公益社會五大方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12626.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12626.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
與時減跑劇就 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12630.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12651.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
與時俱進檢討貧窮線這不是我講的這賴清德說的證件開了然後呢有然後嗎 部長有 報告委員因為這個謝謝您的垂詢那這個的確是在我們的社會救助法的演繹當中是一個重要的議題還要延遇多久需要延遇多久請理事報告一下報告委員我現在兩點說明第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12660.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12689.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
委員現在所說的台灣的舊貧窮線我必須要在這邊很負責任的說就OECD國家來說我們是高於他們為什麼因為我們是可支配所得的60%而OECD國家是50%這第一點更正你講的啦是形式上面嘴巴講的基準嘛相關的所謂可支配所得到底是怎麼定義的這是按照我們那個再回去仔細看清楚啦德國是這樣定義的嗎跟台灣定義一樣嗎包委員德國就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12690.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12717.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
進收入欸對沒錯對啊我可以在這邊很負責任的說就是所謂的可支配所得這是第一個說明台灣現在目前最大的問題並不是貧窮限度問題而是我們現在目前的三個一個是動產不動產還有設算所得這點我承認那所以我們現在目前也會根據這個部分現在還需要多久包委我們現在目前我們現在之前我們也預告了我們現在目前來收集各方還需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12719.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12727.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
我們就會趕快來提出啊現在目前就是各方有很多...我再說一次啦要檢討貧窮線不是我說的是賴清德說的包委員這個裡面對啊我們就...我有說錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12735.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12761.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那你當初賴清德提政見的時候你就講啊報告賴總統總統參選人問題不是貧窮縣的問題你提的解方講錯了為什麼該接住的人沒有接住不是貧窮縣的問題賴清德當初就不是這樣講的啊啊你們說要檢討沒有關係啊所以我現在問你進度到哪裡什麼時候會提出來啊今天如果是2024年5月20號 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12763.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12786.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我問這個問題可能給你們準備的時間太短了上任一年多勒上任一年多我問你什麼時候要提出來然後你跟我講說你們要繼續研議那我能不能具體請教你要研議到什麼時候可以嗎還是要研議到2028年需要研議到什麼時候才會提出來因為這裡面我剛剛也說了嘛涉及到的問題很多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12787.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12803.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
所以還要延續多久盡量 盡快 盡速全部都是形容詞來 部長 下一個問題不要說你們不敢承諾的啦即使是你們承諾的 下一頁有做到嗎有做到嗎非常多婦女的朋友大家關心的有關於狼醫的資訊平台 在下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12817.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12841.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
你們一再飄飄這個是醫改會講的人家講的沒有錯我們一個月讓大家看下一頁去年年底你說要延續公布啊信心的名單就是12月30號你做的承諾嘛對吧還記得吧是是好下一頁今年1月衛福部允諾三個月內完成有完成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12843.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12870.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我們都一直在內部跟不斷的在研議嘛來看一下當初決議的內容是怎麼講的衛福部要啟動並完成揭露平台建置作業這是社福二航委員會在今年1月2號通過的臨時提案你們答應三個月內要完成 有完成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12873.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12885.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
所以我剛才說嘛不要說沒有押日期的啦沒有押日期的就不敢講了嘛持續研議看你要研議到什麼時候嘛有押日期的都跳票了部長 是這樣對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12890.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12918.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
有沒有需要檢討需要 我們會加緊腳步還需要多久一個月之內就把那個如果一個月之內這次又跳票咧不會跳票確定不會跳票確定用你部長的位置擔保確定不會跳票這是應該要做的對啊 今年1月2號就知道應該要做了因為的確有在研究委員報告真的一直在研究因為他牽涉到比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12919.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12946.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我們要考慮到他的法律的根據我就請教部長這件事情是今天才知道嗎當然我們一直在做今年1月初不知道嗎你去年做承諾的時候不知道嗎法規的狀態是什麼法律有沒有充分的授權在目前法規的狀態之下可以做到什麼程度如果不夠的話要推動什麼樣子的修法這個是早就知道的事情這不是今天才知道的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12948.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12961.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
如果今天才知道這個事情我今天逼你要你給個答案是我不對從去年就承諾的事情1月又做了決議搞到現在7月了還持續在研議這樣對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12965.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12994.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我們一直在努力在研議都有進度啦那因為現在就是也跟司法院這邊來討論怎麼樣來先把在法律上可以的我們先做非常多我這樣說啦我對於醫界的前輩我在這邊質詢過很多次我對所有的醫護同仁他們的辛勞我都是感念在心而且對他們權益的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12995.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13015.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
對於他們權益、相關勞動權益的增進台灣民眾黨、立法院黨團是從來沒有停下腳步我們都全力支持但是如果是這種事情的話台灣社會沒有人可以容忍台灣也沒有一個婦女可以容忍我不希望因為衛福部的怠惰 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13017.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13043.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
又增加了更多的被害人我這樣講部長應該聽得懂我希望今天部長所做的承諾一個月之內要兌現嘛好的好謝謝好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝黃國昌委員的發言謝謝部長的答詢下一位鄭敬群委員鄭敬群委員鄭敬群委員鄭敬群委員不在下一位張雅琳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13051.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13053.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請部長部長好那我想今天我們是要來審查這個社會救助法那其實在2023年的時候已經整併了一個版本但是其實民間對它都還是有蠻多的期待但是因為這裡面其實是設定到了就是說在社會救助法第36條明訂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13075.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13092.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
各級政府中央直轄市縣市及相關的目的事業主管機關都應該各自編列預算來辦理救助業務那在這個中央政府依照地方制度法第69條規定要以定額涉算的方式來補助直轄市縣市政府的一些社會福利的相關政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13093.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13118.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
但是必须限定它的一些支出范围跟用途那地方其实需要编列相对应的一些预算所以在今天这个社会救助法讨论之前我想要先确认一件事情就是有关于才化法的部分因为新任的才化法对于我们现在既有的一些工作业务上面会不会我们跟县市的讨论是什么所以我想要先就这一点来跟部长来做讨论 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13119.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13130.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
就例如說我們這次修法最主要的變動其實是營業稅由原本給地方的40%現在其實是給了百分之百也就是說全部的營業稅都給了地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13134.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13157.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我想我的认知应该是正确的那第二个部分是所得税的部分从10%上升到11%也都给到了地方那土地增值税的部分呢也是全数回归不再由中央管那最后一个部分呢其实是原本给地方的一般性补助管绝对不能比上一年度来的少 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13158.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13186.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
這樣做其實過去是為了避免地方社福的預算直接被刪減我想我的理解應該是沒有錯 對嗎好 那我們從土地總署的報告可以看到就是2025年其實地方就可以拿到3753億的統籌稅款所以其實中央的財源已經變少了地方大幅的增加那接下來就想要請教我們跟我們明年度的社福預算將會有不同的分配嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13186.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13207.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那目前依照於現在的財化法我們要自談性支出裡面3.28%對嗎好那我想請教我們現在跟地方縣市政府各自的討論現在分配的比例我們已經討論好了嗎跟縣市政府針對財化法的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13209.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13237.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
目前都還在寫上當中是不是要請那個好 我們請市長回答社務的理事長非常感謝張委員的一個指教確實就像陳如委員剛剛所說財化法通過之後事實上那個整個地方那邊已經增加三千多億了那另外一個第二個重點我也必須要在這邊強調社會救助在全世界各國都屬於地方自治的事項台灣也不例外根據我們地方制度法第十九條第三項第二目是屬於縣市自住自治 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13237.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13258.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
這是事項 這我必須要核心序明第三點 剛剛委員剛剛所說的就是說這邊 至於影響之後相關的一些整個這個比例我們現在目前還跟地方政府還在密切我想問一下 我們先不到社會救助法我們先在社福預算救財化法的部分因為其實過去會有一些補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13259.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13274.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那現在地方到底會不會去認呢我想這大概是最關注的部分總不能說有些縣市可能拿很多縣像直轄市台北市保證3%可是其他地方並沒有這樣子得到相對多甚至有些地方可能增加的幅度也非常非常的少 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13274.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13292.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那到底這些社福會不會受到什麼樣子的影響我覺得這個我們其實是想要了解那地方到底為什麼喬布隆大家的爭議點在哪裡是不是可以請市長簡單說我可以簡單回應一下那個委員的那個槌尋兩個重點第一個就是說我們對於社會中央對地方的補助有兩個一個是一般您剛剛所說的一般補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13293.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13321.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
另外第二是所謂的計劃型補助一般補助款的話其實根據就根據這個地方的人口這裡面會有一些一般的社算這是第一個我們現在目前這個部分可能也會有一些調整這是第一個另外第二個就是地方型地方型主要有兩個部分一個就是大家有點育兒津貼的部分另外第二個就是說我們現在目前的社會安全網那我跟委員必須要報告這個有關育兒津貼的部分這個是我們恐怕還是維持原案 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13322.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13339.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
就是說比例上面來說我們現在目前我們這個部分我們現在目前還在跟地方這邊還做一些相關的一些協調但是到目前為止這個育兒今天的部分我們現在暫時先不動但是有一些屬於計劃型剛剛說的社安網的部分的話那恐怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13339.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13354.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
恐怕必須要根據地方的這個財力可能要有一些分級我跟你們報告譬如說像這個像有一些那個像台北台北的這個稅收非常非常高那如果比例還是維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13356.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13381.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
還是要大部分都在中央的話這個老說是說不過去啦社安網雖然是屬於計畫型但是老說對於民眾的社會安全是非常非常重要的所以我也在這邊呼籲地方各地方的這一個首長應該要重視這個部分這聽起來就是說有些縣市我們針對於社安網也好或者是說因為今天不動嘛但是社安網的部分啊急難救助的部分目前聽起來是地方還沒有達到共識還沒有是沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13383.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13406.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
所以這就很有可能我想再請教一個問題就是說如果我們最後大家還是不願意來認那勢必就一定會有人不會被接到一定會有人會被犧牲或是因為他拿來這些錢地方拿來這些錢他沒有去做相對應的事情我想請教一個簡單的問題衛福部有沒有什麼工具可以來約束他們才能夠真正確保社安網的這些我們原本的設計概念可以被落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13408.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13420.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
文回報這裡面我們現在目前就是說有關於我們現在目前的政策工具主要就是社福考核就是社福考核那邊到時候如果說你應該要編而未編應該盡的責任而未盡 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13423.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13442.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
因處理而未處理那當然地方首長第一個要負政治責任另外第二個我們對不起那我們的這一個社福考核這邊我們可能就必須要降級降級的話你的補助款也跟著減少那這個就是但是這個聽起來好像約束力並沒有非常強對不對因為他們畢竟錢拿了更多嘛對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13443.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13470.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
因為我想這是民間大家都非常非常擔心的啦因為其實不管是在這個社福的領域也好或是在教育的領域也好大家都非常擔心的是說當地方把錢拿走了他現在錢比中央甚至還要來得更多的時候那中央沒有任何的工具可以約束他就會造成勢必有些人一定被漏接所以我想這個可能還是要這是剛剛我也認同次長的呼籲啦我想這個談話法就是整個在一個沒有跟地方充分協調事權的部分造成的一個後果 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13471.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13496.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那我想不應該有任何人被犧牲啦所以我也是支持剛剛次長的呼籲那我也那個簡單回應一下就是說我們也在這邊呼籲那個首長可能真的那個錢真的要用在刀火上面不要就是說當然就是說我們都希望社福當然希望每個人都好可是每一個地方老實說一些最基本的特別是對兒少的這個補助這個真的是一毛錢都不能省還有像社會安全網 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13498.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13521.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
沒有啦 我現在就是說 應該錢就要用在刀口上面這也是地方首長應該盡的責任 謝謝對 謝謝 因為我想這邊我也是再加強一下就是說因為其實地方現在的城鄉差距其實是非常非常大的那我們也有可能會造成說平手橫貧的一個風險這也是民間單位大家所擔心的一個狀態就是弱勢族群如果在地方沒有辦法充分運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13522.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13544.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
而且有效的去實質的去把這些財源應用到地方的社政的一些資源的時候呢我們的弱勢族群會擴救的機會就會降低好這個然後再來就是說我們過去可能會有一些由中央統籌的重大社會救助計畫如果沒有充分的補助地方又不願意補足資源的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13545.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13564.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
我們還有一個很大的問題是人才跟後勤會出現短程那這有可能是我們社安晚其實下一步大家一直在討論我們的社工的一個比例是不是應該要來去做一些調整因為長期以來我們的社工的壓力都非常非常的大所以這個可能就是我也想要請教就是說最後一個簡單的問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13568.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13582.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我們這個部分如果我想我們討論的方向會怎麼討論因為到底是會大家都要維持一樣的標準嗎各縣市一樣的標準還是我們會因為不同的縣市那個狀態會有不同的協助中央現在這邊的態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13585.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13606.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
首先我先回應那個委員第一個問題現在確實我們即使經過社安網第一期的這個擴充我們現在目前在國際比較來說我們每一位的社工比 老實說還是偏低我們現在目前是1比1123但是相較於鄰近的這個香港如果沒有記錯好像是1比500 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13607.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13627.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
然後美國好像是1比800的樣子Anyway都是比這個事實上我們還有應該要還有擴充的空間那我們現在目前也跟委員報告我們現在目前三網第二期2.0我們現在目前也已經完成規劃也已經送給這個行政院來做那個相關的規劃希望能夠來這邊來補足相關的這個人力以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13628.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13652.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我簡單確認一下就是說因為每個縣市的財政狀況不是這樣到時候中央的方向是說我可能會比較有錢的地方我會願意讓他自己多付一點比較窮的地方我們會多協助一點是這個樣子嗎我們會往這個方向來沒錯我們就是那個平者平之不平者不平之就是這樣那個你敢扣你就是要多幫忙多支持一點嘛對不對會多支持一點但是能力強的對不起這個地方政府你們要自己要自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13653.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13661.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
要負起應該要有的這個責任好那最後一個簡單的問題就是說我們現在針對於新的才化法的一些影響性評估我們現在已經算出來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13663.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13682.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
有算出來嗎?報告委員,我們現在目前,您說有關於社會福利這邊嗎?對對對我們現在目前都在跟主計那邊,它其實有算出一個版本,但是我們現在目前還在持續那大概什麼時候可以提供給我們辦公室呢?我們會趕快跟主計這邊,協調好之後趕快把結果跟委員報告,好不好?那我們可以押一個時間嗎?一個月?呃... |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13692.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13709.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
這個部分不知道委員我們可能要跟竹總我們會盡快啦地方政府那邊也很關心嘛好不好好那我們就一個月之後再來詢問一下進度好不好好感謝委員謝謝好謝謝來接下來請盧縣立委員來做選擇這是有請部長跟圓明會的副處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13725.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13748.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
對 謝謝委員好好 部長在講以前我先針對剛才主席所裁示的說加江蘭姨的資訊平台的檢討報告給林淑芬委員嘛那希望也給所有今天有質詢相關議題的委員還有我們衛福委員會的委員謝謝那是給委員會啦不是報告是他要執行的那個實際作為謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13750.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13758.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那我在講主題之前,我先問一個問題部長,通常在颱風來的時候,比如說當時颱風來的時候,誰在待命?24小時的誰在待命?我們有一個防颱中心除了防災人員,還有我們的國軍,其實最堅強的待命的單位其實就是我們的基層的醫療院所,尤其是衛生所 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13777.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13791.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
是的24小時平衡地區喔那昨天我們牡丹鄉一個晚上就下了海密晚上就下了400將近500毫米也就是說他們道路中斷然後等於是孤立無援所以我要講的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13792.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13804.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
很多人都在跟我講我們都沒有看到衛福部的針對護理人員的一個待遇的一個時間表怎麼做調整我剛看了2014年的增衛數的薪資是37274塊總體薪資是60984塊可是我們醫療人員的一二年的尤其是護理人員如果是醫療的 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13815.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13834.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
醫療類別的護理人員是49,880塊然後做其他廠戶或者是說其他類別的護士是46,711塊所以就整體的薪資來說還是遠低於我們的平均所以我希望能夠看到衛福部對這整個薪資結構的一個改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13835.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13852.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
有没有个时间表或者说你内心里面有没有已经盘点好说大概是什么时候可以至少让以后要投入护理人员的这些护理系的学生或者是说已经放弃这个护理行列的这些专业的护理生回到我们的职场来 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13853.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13870.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好,謝謝盧委員的一個關心護理人力,尤其在第一線的人力,特別在偏鄉的護理人力,怎麼樣來加強或留任,這個是政府非常重要的方向。我們當然,我想委員很清楚,我們也有12個措施, |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13871.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13886.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
那基本上這個都希望能夠改善工作環境還有就是在他們專業還沒有非常非常成熟的時候有沒有可能在這一兩年這個薪資可以達到至少一個總體的薪資那個平均60,984塊因為現在是49,880塊大概還差了將近一萬多塊這平均來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13895.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13921.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
您的意思 他有的是這樣子 有的是在醫院醫院裡面也有不同的像急重症的病房或者是門診的護理人員還有就是 其實還蠻多元化的啦對 你要做一個整理的過程 至少要拉高這個水平讓這些不想從事護理人員的這些已經離職的護理師呢可以再投入回來工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13922.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13944.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
這是我們非常希望的而且在經濟方面我想政府真的日日夜夜都在一直努力想要提升不只護理人員啦醫事人員那我希望這件事情把你放在很重要的位置尤其是因為我們護理人員確實是非常的辛苦早上會收到一個相應的一個所謂被拒絕然後要約到董事法相應的一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13945.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13974.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
所以在偏遠地區尤其是比較沒有就醫療缺乏的地區要等相驗的時候常常尤其是假日死亡的常常就要家屬就要等待法醫的解剖或者是法醫的相驗所以我一直覺得說這些已經退休的醫師或者是之前退休的公職醫師是不是你可以納入一個類似像相驗的一個團隊你這樣子做起事來會比較簡單因為不然家屬永遠都在等尤其是我們高頻所以我想說也 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13975.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14001.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
這個是很好的建議因為我也當過衛生所主任也相驗蠻多的啦如果我們沒有趕過來或者晚上甚至假日都要去相驗不然的話他們後續也很難處理我想這個部分我深切的了解到這個的需要性網路更多的人力來我相信是可以減緩目前的一些尤其衛生所醫療人員的一個壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14003.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14015.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
謝謝部長 進入今天的主題今天主題本來它這個法律是原本叫做社會救濟法在1943年的時候過了這麼多年 在民國69年 1980年變成社會救助法現在已經45年 已經有10年沒有修了這個46條裡面 我剛看了書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14026.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14044.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
這些三十案的書面報告大概列舉我看到的一些問題就是共同生活事實的一個所謂的共同生活事實清水的一個事實認定還有自數收入能不能列入第三個就是我們原住民的那個土地的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14045.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14071.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
那後來因為這個問題我有在五月份的時候召集我們相關的部會來到辦公室來討論因為常常我們原住民的土地他們就說你就是沒有辦法變成中低收入戶外因為你有土地然後其實這個土地就比如說本來去年以前是三萬塊的一個補償現在是六萬塊到現在大家還沒有領到然後有些領地是懸崖或什麼的其實那個根本就去 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14072.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14101.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
擔保或者是去貸款根本就不可能然後我就邀請了相關部會 比如財政部 金管會 人民會中央銀行 臺灣銀行到辦公室來結果他們的會議結論是什麼呢他說 金髮補償不能當作是一個收入它不能作為一個擔保品所以又把我們所有的希望又破滅掉比如說我今天有個死角 可能我可以保障說我每年可以有60萬的收入 當作我的一個收入來源然後我可以去貸款 結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14102.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14117.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
這個去問了以後他說不能因為他說因為不是不是這個林地他可能因為天災然後掉了幾分然後土石流掉了多少然後他沒有辦法百分之百確定你這每年的收入是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14118.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14134.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
而且會因為國家的政策而改變去年是三萬塊 今年是六萬塊說不定明年修法又變成多少也不知道所以它類似一個不確定性的所以當作在我們這個修法的第五條之二當作一個土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14136.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14156.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
就是說你身後有一個土地的時候你沒有辦法列為中低收入戶的時候這個就覺得很辛苦因為你就直接被判定是你有收入來源可是按照這些經濟部這些銀行這些看法它並不是你的收入所以這個部分在檢討的時候尤其是在修正的時候應該要把它不能列入 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14157.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14183.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我們的所謂的你的基本的裁員因為那不確定就像剛剛我說的我們在5月28號中央單位是這樣子回覆我們的這個問題我們有注意到非常感謝那個盧委員對於這個問題的關心這個確實我們現在目前我們原住民保留地然後有這一個進法補償的部分所以委員現在最主要就是說這個能不能是列入收入還是列入動產 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14183.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14213.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
就是不能就是不能列入收入也不能列入動產當然是列入動產可是他的其實他的價值很低啦我瞭解我瞭解因為他也不能貸款然後其實那個所謂的那個不確定性很多所以你很多人是他有土地可是他要去申請作地收戶我瞭解列入他的生活需求是完全沒有辦法包委員那這個部分是不是可以讓我們帶回去我們來研議看看能不能來這個來就不以劣跡這樣子好不好好謝謝委員謝謝我們就期待好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14216.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14217.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
謝謝主席,我們請部長請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14235.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14260.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
委員好部長好部長早上我聽了很多委員就是針對這個社會救助法有提出一些意見那我今天也是一樣就是說我們這個社會救助法已經很多年都沒有修那我們在民意代表在第一線其實都會碰到很多民眾他確實生活很困苦那可是他就是在我們的地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14260.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14280.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
社工去訪視之後那申請這個資料也送了然後申請之後發現他是不符合資格的都想請教就是說根據這個衛福部的這個統計我們到2023年第二季的截止就是說我們享有這個低收入低收入資格的就只有在1.2%那 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14283.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14304.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
中低收入戶的話也只有占2.4那整個加起來就是差不多是這個56萬人那其實我剛剛有看到幾個委員有特別提到就是說在幾個國家內其實我們譬如說日本、韓國、英國、美國我們針對這個中低收入的這個部分其實我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14305.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14321.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
算是我們中低收入戶的這個部分算是少的那我今天想要問的就是說到底是我們整個經濟狀況好呢還是因為我們這個計算的方式跟其他的國家是不一樣造成就是說我們有很多民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14322.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14339.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
他真的即使是生活很困苦可是他就是沒有達到可以請領的這個資格那我想請教就是說部長你針對這部分就是我們這個貧窮的這個統計是不是有點失真我想我們都會有根據 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14341.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14369.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
可不可以容許請理事報告那這個部分其實是我們雖然中低收入是2.26但是我們另外針對中低老人津貼身障生活補助也照顧了大概196萬經濟弱勢者所以其實我們照顧是8.38%那這個部分我想我們會針對這個貧窮線那在修法的方向我們當然是經濟安全、和平之利跟社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14370.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14390.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
投資為核心有關於這個定義方面以及適合如何調整我請理事回答一下部長我今天想要講的就是說其實在社會當中即使他我們訂了一些資格他不符合資格可是確實他是有困難的那怎麼樣把這些人接住 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14391.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14409.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我是不是請呂次OK 非常感謝黃委員的這個詢詢我有兩個重點第一個 包委員這張圖所引用的我必須要說這是錯誤的我知道很多委員都引用社救門但是這是錯誤的第一個我們要弄清楚什麼叫相對貧窮率第二個是社會救助的涵蓋率這兩個是不一樣概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14410.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14436.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
如果說是相對貧窮的話是可支配所得OECD國家可支配所得中位數的50%以這個定義的話沒錯韓國是15.3日本是15.7我跟報告委員台灣是7.43這等於我一定要更正我也跟他們說我在學校就是教社會福利概論跟社會救助這個一定這是錯誤的一定要澄清啦第二點貧窮率那個社會救助的涵蓋率2.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14438.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14447.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
韓國是多少 4.5 但是日本是多少 1.62我一定要先講清楚 不然會愧對我的學生我一定要先講清楚 這第一點第二點 但即使是這樣我們台灣做得夠不夠 不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14452.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14461.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
所以我們確實要有一些放寬這個放寬包括我們現在目前所謂動產不動產還有一個所謂赦赦所得這個我們都虛心檢討以上兩點來跟我們報告剛剛市長有特別提到就是說這個有關這個申請資格動產跟不動產就以彰化縣來講我們這個中低的這個動產是每人每年是差不多14萬2000那不動產的部分是560萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14478.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14491.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
那低收的話是每人每年9萬不動產的部分是373萬那其實對這個一般中低收入戶的這個民眾來講其實他如果說他擁有 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14496.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14507.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
有的是那種三合院共同持有那如果像這樣子的話其實他們要申請中低或低收其實確實都還有一個困難所以我認為就是說未來這個動產跟不動產的這個這個金額我覺得應該是還要在 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14514.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14534.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
提高因為現在的房價我相信部長你也知道如果說就是唯一一間可以住的房子那當然你們說也可以排除嘛可以排除之後他還是有時候根本也請不到確實他經濟非常的困難那像這樣子的話通常我們在第一線我們會請這個地方的慈善會來協助是 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14536.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14559.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
可是地方的慈善卫协助的话他有的就只有一次性的协助他没办法就是说每个月给这个家庭有一些帮忙所以我也希望就是说既然这个社会救助法已经这么多年没有去做一个调整我觉得针对这个勤领的资格动产不动产的这个部分我觉得应该也要去做一个调整 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14560.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14576.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
是的,謝委員我想不只中南部啦,應該是全國各地都有大家一塊塊放一百個人,一台放一百個人在持有你把他算進去他就沒有資格,其實他生活是很 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14577.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14588.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
很辛苦的啦那這個部分我相信未來我們會來討論這個理事要不要陳璐部長剛剛說這個確實我們共同持分這個也很常見我自己也有在檢察院外說的但是我要跟你們報告我們這裡面雖然是共同持分我們是算他的比例啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14601.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14627.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
當然這個部分是不是要來列入 我就這個這個是不是要來提出 因為說有的看得到吃不到那工作這麼大 你要去寫可能也有困難所以我想可以來檢討來朝檢討這個方向 好那另外我想請教部長就是我們看到這個台北市他現行的中低收入戶的標準每人每月是這個兩萬九千多 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14629.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14650.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
你看我們現在台灣的基本工資調整月薪新台幣是兩萬八千多所以我們如果今天是領一個最低薪資的話在台北這邊算是中低收入互惠所以我是覺得說這個部分不論是在台北也好或是在其他台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14651.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14673.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
其他這個鄉鎮各個縣市我覺得這部分應該也要去做一個檢討譬如說彰化的話它是這個每人每月超過兩萬三那台北市兩萬九那這樣子我覺得這一部分我覺得應該也要去做一個檢討我不知道說部長你這邊的看法是怎樣我想我們會檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14675.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14702.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
如果今天我在這個彰化這邊領了一個最低薪資或其他啦可能在彰化這邊沒有達到他的這個標準可是在台北他就是一個中低收入中低收入戶當然就是說北部的這個這個所有的生活費可能比其他縣市還高這個當然應該是這樣子啦可是你看到如果他今天是領一個最低薪資我們講的最低薪資兩萬八 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14704.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14726.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
兩萬八的話,在台北就是一個中低收入戶欸這個要看人口數是,是你是不是要再回答我還要跟我們報告一下,這個裡面就是說還是要除以那個所謂人口數啦平均,平均人口數的那個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14729.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14751.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
好,謝謝所以我今天要跟保庭和處庭說就是我們所有的在全台灣各地的民眾如果他真的生活經濟困難的話即使他的整個資格,他可能要申請租給不符合所以我們碰到很多都是這樣,他可能就是邊緣戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14752.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14769.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
他變員戶那他申請的話他就是不符合資格那很多可能政府沒辦法做的就是所有的慈善單位他會召集一些人來協助所以我認為就是說這個社會救助法的這個部分我覺得應該已經是 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14772.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14798.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
幾十年沒去做調整啦 我覺得應該是要好好討論該調整的要調整那也要讓這個需要被照顧的人真的能夠得到政府的照顧我覺得這個是最重要的我們新的修法的方向有四大主軸 其中最第一個主軸就是這個擴大照顧輔助弱勢所以在檢討 我們會檢討認定的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14801.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14813.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
尤其是增訂長期失業者等就業不利者多元折算的機制這個都會在委員會隨選的都是在我們一個重要第一個組織裡面來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14816.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14844.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
我希望就是說真的建務委角色應該要充分的扮演而不是說有時候就交給地方的慈善單位我覺得這個也不應該就是說應該我們在第一線那政府應該可以協助了如果確實沒辦法或者是再找慈善單位大家來協助我覺得說最重要就是建務你一定要持續關心才不會有一些憾事發生好 我們政府有這個責任把這件事情做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14845.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14850.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝王委員 謝謝部長 次長接下來請歡迎委員來做詢問好謝謝昭緯 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14862.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14869.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
請求務長先謝謝昭偉今天給我們很充分的時間可以關心好幾大案那今天不管是台大鄭文芳醫師潛逃案或者是涉救法那都是我應該可以說是最早關心的而且就是一直追蹤的先從就是鄭文芳案那我要講的是鄭文芳案我們未還委員開始關心的是因為看到台大婦產科 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14892.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14920.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
一個婦產科而且是台大就是短短兩三年內三大案其中最嚴重的當然就是這個鄭文芳案所以上一次剛好部長去WHO那邊據說去為我們台灣倡議的時候林靜儀次長的時候那當時他就有答應要修醫師懲戒法醫師法等那我今天因為剛聽了幾個委員質詢我想先那個部長可能沒有機會知道我也要講從 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14922.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14943.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
2022年這個記者會我開記者會的時候我們已經關心這個案子一年了2022年2月受害者就是來跟我們澄清的時候那當時就是我們開始協助的時候就發現台大醫院非常的消極台大也很消極台大跟台大醫院互踢皮球 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14944.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14964.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
後來我們是因為法治沒有辦法解決的時候那我才跟受害人而且我們後來發現就是從一個受害人到三個受害人受害人願意站出來開了這個記者會台大醫院終於啟動行政調查一年後也搞了一年了把他解職 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14966.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14978.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
結果這個醫師鄭文芳醫師很厲害截止之後居然行政調查那大家知道刑事調查是不一樣的他以刑事調查說他沒事雖然台大醫院說他有事他2023年我們聽到台大 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14981.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15010.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
就是居然要復聘這位狼醫教授而且台大醫學院各位知道我們這邊有台大醫院台大醫學院就是要復聘他我們跟受害人再次為什麼要開記者會就是制度出了問題行使制度的人沒有在保障受害者開記者會高聲呼籲台大教評會為了學生也為了受害人不應該復聘那既然台大醫院已經把他解釋了才以31比0高票否決復聘案 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15010.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15032.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
那這位鄭文芳醫師非常會鑽法律漏洞而且當初台大跟台大醫院互踢皮球的時候台大說這個受害人是業務他是在業務上所以應該性供法台大醫院說他是醫學院所以應該是台大才有性評會你看這怎麼互踢皮球如果我們沒有開記者會台大醫院根本不會進行行政調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15033.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15049.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
後來我們發現他不是只有三位受害者性侵跟性侵未遂都是一樣的手法他是有六位就是潛在知道是六位那只是三個人願意出來據名去不管是申訴到法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15050.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15074.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
他們窮盡所有的部分那我要講的事情是說這個過程中真的看到台大跟台大醫院都非常的消極那處理這件事情那今年五月的時候我質詢林靜儀次長那他告訴我們說7月21號會提供修正懲戒辦法的報告務必納入懲戒期間追蹤跟監督機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15076.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15093.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
那剛剛也有非常多人在講這個醫事查詢系統因為之前我並不了解這個醫事查詢系統我剛剛就在林淑芬委員的時候我放鄭文芳的名字進去發現沒有任何結果我放了林靜儀十幾筆資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15094.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15119.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
為什麼鄭文芳在這裡面查不出來我想這就是剛剛很多委員在講的那我長期在教育文化委員會我們教育文化委員會教育部在教師法上弄了多少的心力不管是教師性騷霸凌學生不適應教師的機制應處理得很完善現在處理校長的部分那我真的覺得就是衛福部長期讓大家感覺好像站在醫師這裡而且是 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15121.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15149.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
站在醫師權益的部分我想我們部長都是出身醫師可以理解可是二職的醫師不應該是我們包庇的對象嘛而且我發現這個醫師法第25條違反醫學倫理性騷病人當然違反醫學倫理嘛傷害病人自主權傷害病人利益可是你們的醫師法裡面沒有講罰則是要多少萬我剛剛現場又看了一次所以看起來醫師法跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15150.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15170.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
就是醫師懲戒機制漏洞百出不只是今天講的這個醫事查詢系統那林靜怡已經答應我7月21號會給我們如何修的報告那我請部長真的要痛切反省啦您也是出身台大醫院對不對那看到台大醫院的消極 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15171.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15198.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
然後那就是連女醫師出來說職權性騷的時候都沒有積極處理那是不是能夠痛定思痛7月21號給我們的報告要徹底從醫師法跟醫師懲戒條例都要提出你們的版本有承諾要真的把漏洞補上好嗎除了剛剛講的這醫師查詢系統要讓所有的病人所有的人都能夠方便查詢可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15198.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15213.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
好 我們剛剛其實有答應一個月之內要把剛剛更多的事情把它完成如果前面林市長有提到7月21號要提供如何休醫師懲戒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15217.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15229.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
但是我覺得醫師法也是漏洞百出25條他明明就是違反這個醫界倫理的話就是可以送懲戒可是醫師法本身其他條都有說罰則是什麼可是針對這個違反倫理的部分那居然沒有告訴大家懲戒的內容應該是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15238.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15253.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我想我們會除了落實醫師懲戒委員會這個工作以外我們如果未來需要再做法律上的處理都可以來做好不好 醫師法一併提出您的看法是不是該修因為醫師懲戒條例也是依照醫師法就訂的嘛它是子法嘛 那母法的部分我看來看去找不到違反25條這個倫理的部分是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15265.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15294.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
那大家老是去動用那個說要就是所謂的要判刑就是確定來讓剛剛大家所講的就是明明醫師性騷病人就是違反倫理了還繼續就就是在調查期間以性供法來講的話性騷法來講這是職權性騷醫生跟病人的不對等關係那這本來就應該要佔離職就這個精神可是因為他不屬於性供法那性騷法是叫各單位自己再去定 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15294.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15306.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
所以你們是主管機關就應該把它訂清楚好嗎第一個就是說調查期間暫離職如果調查不成依照新公法精神是可以賠償他的就是這個部分就是他當時的薪水好嗎就這幾個醫師查詢系統還有醫師法是不是該修還有醫師懲戒辦法是不是該修7月21號的報告都一併給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15319.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15343.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
那再來的話社救法也是本席從上一屆開始因為剛剛那個都在講就是所謂的貧窮線那我要講一下2022年12月20號當時包含台大社工系鄭教授等也都是我想呂健德次長在當教授的時候也都非常熟悉那大家的看法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15343.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15367.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
台灣用的不是貧窮線的問題是法規限制過多導致法定貧窮人口過低這點所以我們不要再糾結那當然就是後來民間提出邀請我提出首部我們立法院的民間版那我也那我要跟部長講就是衛福部真的太消極您不是部長的時候你們的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15369.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15373.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
部長或次長一直拒絕修設就法所以我才會跑去質詢陳建仁行政院長然後陳院長他當場答應了所以衛福部才開始動可是呢2024年6月我在質詢是為什麼衛福部的草案根本沒有解決問題所以你們現在是第二回合再戰了大家知道我的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15391.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15419.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
不要再拿一個沒有解決問題的版本你現在還沒有提版本可是我看你們今天給我們的報告我真的覺得每個東西都把我們委員提的版本都說要審慎研議都有很多的理由還是沒有真正解決問題那我今天時間的緣故剛剛又在評論這個東西了那我就不就這件事情因為算法都不一樣就是學術問題那我知道理事長有想法可以給我報告說你們怎麼算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15421.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15441.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
我講這個上面這個就是所謂的國際貧窮線各位看一下這個我們沒有什麼好辯論了台灣依照OECD的國際貧窮線中位數百分之六有兩百八十萬人在貧窮線以下下面是我們的現階段法定貧窮人口法定貧窮人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15441.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15459.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
那就剛剛講的很多社會新聞的都不在這裡面我們所有很多的福利都是匡這個中低收入只有53萬人280萬人跟53萬人中間差距是200多萬人所以你這個匡不匡大一點不管是地方出中央出 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15460.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15478.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
就是說既然未來是地方蔬財化法那你中央就把這個線框好嘛每一個因為貧窮喔就是傷害自己生命的悲劇喔你們衛福部都應該要痛在心裡就是說那家戶來講26萬戶被框定法定貧窮人那依照國際貧窮線我們的貧窮線沒問題都是各種條條款款讓他們被排除有196萬戶耶這中間的差距是170幾萬戶耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15490.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15493.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
所以呢那在講日本韓國的話我想次長非常知道日本韓國針對無家者有相關的專法那這次你們只有五條而且把很多東西又丟給內政部什麼住宅法那你這邊如果是特殊法 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15506.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15528.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
那不然要叫中央主管機關另訂一個辦法嗎你這裡就應該規範他應有然後內政部就應該優先讓他們可以所以怎麼解決的部分那我真的覺得我們不要再重蹈覆轍上一次衛福部的版本大家不能接受趁著520之前不知道為什麼就出了一個各界不滿意的版本那當然那不是邱部長的責任也不是呂次長的責任那我們現在呂健的次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15533.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15559.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
出身社會福利又說在台中的時候率先關心無家者那是不是這次給我們一個滿意的版本就你們剛剛所講的我先隨便舉一個無審議制我剛剛聽到呂次長在回應的時候有聽到我的那個條文你們覺得很不錯可是你給我們的報告說要放進執法我想講的是如果你覺得審議制度不錯那老人福利法就放在母法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15559.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15576.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
那這種重要的東西是不是放在母法有些東西是需要具體討論的不要放在子法好不好那地方政府也不一定認真看子法另外一個家戶合計也是一大問題各位我們在修社福法的時候跟我們前部長也爭辯了很久那當時後來林萬億政委就是讓步我們放了以人為本沒有拿掉家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15584.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15606.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
可是各位你們今天要跟我們講說民法什麼有撫養義務大家都知道家長撫養小孩就算家長沒有能力的時候社福單位會接手對不對那今天小孩撫養家長請問各位你們家長的錢是你所有的收入都給他嗎也不是嘛你會扣除自己養家的需要剩下的才能夠飼養長輩嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15608.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15629.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
對不對 那可是你家戶計算把它全部都所有的收入都算進去然後說這個沒有子女撫養的家長不符合中低收入戶的資格最後少數個案被迫去告他拿民法去告他 未盡然後反而變得家庭悲劇因為子女就是二言相向 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15630.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15659.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
那這不是我們要看的所以你就不應該只排除家暴跟很少數就應該要實質認定社工跟各方面而且緊記住共同生活的都沒有生活在一起了那我相信以我們台灣人大部分的孝道子女會願意協助他沒有辦法協助就是自己可能也不管什麼原因或者是親子關係很糟糕那我們要解決的不是倫理問題那個是民法去處理的我們要解決的是社會救助 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15660.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15684.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
我剛講的 你空了那麼多 兩百多萬人沒有算在裡面而且無家者在街上的這麼多你去日本你有看到人家的車站有像我們台北車站旁邊這麼多嗎那我們說我們現在經濟成長已經超越韓國了我相信你去做民調 很多的民眾會願意放寬你們是主管社會福利 社會安全 這是社會安全的最底層那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15685.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15710.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
那如果有人真的是開豪車幹嘛你就去社工拜訪把他取消資格嘛不要因為這樣框框條條的讓該領的人沒有辦法領到流落街頭好不好那今天日本韓國都有無家者專章我們只有五條還是不夠那我希望我們看到你們衛福部的版本不要跟今天給我們委員的報告一樣每個東西都把我們委員的意見都說我們以謹慎評估沒有幾個答應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15715.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15739.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
那我們就不用修了我想不能這樣子我們剛剛秀芳委員的質詢等一下劉建國委員質詢我相信我們的心聲都是一樣啦我們對這一屆期待很高啦因為就是說賴總統的政見我們很高興他放進去了那邱部長跟呃呂次長已經看到我們上一屆提的版本被大家認為不能所以你們要重新提版本好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15740.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15767.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
那就這樣子 一起加油啦 衛福部主管的是病人的權益 醫師的利益當傷害病人權益的時候不應該站在他們那邊 好不好還有這個是弱勢者最最弱勢的赤貧的部分最後一個 地下經濟各國都有不要用地下經濟來講虛擬收入打折 現在就在做所以不要再 我們再重蹈覆轍了好不好那今天細節沒有辦法講完 我們再跟你們討論好的 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15770.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15795.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
好 謝謝范雲委員接下來請劉建國委員發言好 謝謝主席 有請部長請邱部長次長一併上來吧各位好 部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15797.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15821.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
這個今天我們當然主要還是要討論社會救助法但是討論社會救助法之前還是會有連結到所謂社安這三個漏洞主政單位陳副換農委員剛剛所講的還是在衛務部所以部長真的會很辛苦部長從事的是醫療背景的專業那當然衛務部涵蓋的包括社會福利、社會救助諸如此類 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15822.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15849.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
坦白講它是一個非常龐大的一個組織跟系統所以部長真的是要多多擔待那當然很多事情可能你的幕僚單位第一個時間應該會要很清楚的明確的提供相關的訊息給你做相關的一些因應跟參考那我特別今天講因為今天有很多人都提到7月2號台灣發生這個旱事因為詐騙的事件導致一家五口 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15850.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15870.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
全部命負黃泉這讓人感覺到非常的痛苦也非常的遺憾但是我們如果從這個悲劇裡面記取這個教訓也從衛生單位能否可以接觸這個社會安全感的這個洞這個洞可能越來越大 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15871.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15893.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
那越大的情況之下,那衛部要承接起來衛部只有單純衛生單位來處理,夠嗎?顯然是不夠的啦,包含警政、包含法務、包含這個相關的單位都應該要一併進來那我簡單要跟部長提醒這件事情坦白講,這個要從社會救助法,剛剛有委員特別要去把它連結在一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15894.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15915.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
顯然是有困難的好比說社會救助法第21條這次人應該很清楚21條裡面就是所謂的極端救助因為社會救助就是我裡面我們要救助對象包含低收入中低收入戶包含這些極端救助包含這個災害救助等等但是絕對沒有辦法包含這一塊所以社會救助法是沒辦法來承接來協助再來他也沒有包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15923.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15940.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
他也沒有報案我說台中這個案例他也沒有報案對不對他也沒有求助警察但是我要表達說像這樣的案件我們不容許再發生但是他還是會持續的因為詐騙導致整個家庭困頓 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15942.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15964.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
導致整個家庭要走向這樣的悲劇在三位走向悲劇之前他可能會困頓困頓的情況之下可能經濟的困頓可能相關法律上的一些困頓可能還有很多的面向那站在衛生機關可以怎麼樣來主動積極介入協助不要讓他走到像這個台中這樣的一個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15965.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15991.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
我想衛福部這個時間點就必須要有相關的一些去做一些調查跟了解然後第一個時間哪怕法律都還沒有辦法在修正之前我們就要有快速的營業的作為啦所以這個部分我再簡單用兩個例子給各位做參考了台灣的詐騙金額已經很高了我就不再贅述但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15992.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16008.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
詐騙的被害者目前為止沒有相關的保護措施不僅法務部的犯罪被害人權力保障法沒有輔助連我們的社會救助法特殊監獄家庭這個輔助條例通通沒有辦法精準的去接觸這一群受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16009.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16027.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
然後我說他一定會層出不窮的來這樣的發生這有些詐騙的民眾他動輒可能是畢生的積蓄一夕之間被詐騙一空化為烏有對他的身心靈的傷害也是非常非常大台中這個例子也是一個實際上的狀況然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16031.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16059.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
去年12月台北市內湖母女遭詐騙1200萬輕生還有基隆許新女子被騙走的畢生積蓄500多萬報警後,她有報警喔那最後她還是絕望的輕生,等啦所以我講這些案件會層出不窮那因為今天排列社會救助法的這個草案的這個大理巡打那當然大家做這樣的連結也算是很正常嘛那這個部分,照理講部長在這一塊裡面可能就要 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16059.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16077.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
就要有一些說法的因應那反而啦反之等一下要去提到這個蘭姨的事情因為這上禮拜又發生她逃跑了嘛那為何我會排排了相關的這些法案在審查的時候我以為一定會問得到啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16078.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16090.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
一定會問到嘛所以你應該就是都要積極的備戰坦白講是這個樣子嘛所以我今天還特別我因為知道可能有這些事情會發生所以我還特別要求144的市長要到了我不曉得他什麼原因可以不到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16096.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16117.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
那一次林靜儀次長是因為部長出國對不對然後當然副市長來列席嘛,很正常嘛那林委員他可能也忘了那這次是你部長到當然今天的主責不是易思思不過我是有特別要求易思思市長要到因為上個禮拜,朗逸這個事件也吵得灰溢洋洋 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16119.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16135.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
這是一個敏感的問題嘛這是一個衛環委員會所有的委員包含不是本委會的委員都會來來問上你幾句啊況且喔 況且你再回想一下當時你們在一月份的時候你們市長講什麼話我都已經輸掉講話了 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16139.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16144.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
他講什麼他對外宣稱三個月內將嚴厲揭露平台公布不良醫師醫院等名單當時衛生部醫事師師長劉月平也回應現行早已握有醫師名單要不要公布都很快 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16164.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16171.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
但因在法律討論之下公布到什麼範圍為何不在維護民眾就醫權益下盡快完成這是家委說的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16175.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16192.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
五危機就是在你出國的時候,我們那時候是首交一百的,我們沒有零次嘛林委員在講的那一個平台,跟另外一個城市問題不一樣啦所以當然剛才說久了久了,你聽起來,他不會說因為我沒有跟你做同事,也八年嘛,也吃十年,其實我也沒看你倆說嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16196.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16207.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
但是就是說 你的意思是有對外講這些話然後那一天 副市長你列席嘛 對不對市長你聽懂了 他確實有答覆嘛有答應嘛 所以一個月內嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16208.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16218.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
所以現在不能叫做嚴厲階段不能叫做什麼法律什麼有的沒有的而且那時候我們也提供給你們醫師懲戒辦法22條主管機關執行醫師懲戒委員醫師懲戒庫審委員這個懲戒決議將於執行另一集決議書刊登公報你怎麼要公佈啊你有法條的依據啊法院主治法第83條針對判決或懲戒確定的名單屬證無應公開之資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16238.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16264.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
這都沒聽到的東西,這都是壞的遺孫啊況且他剛剛講的第二十五條第一款,過去都用第一款那第四款你們還是可以用,你們怎麼都不用的道理是在這個地方啦不過因為他講那些話,當然部長你會生氣啦但是生氣的前提是什麼原因嘛他可以說你如果沒做,你當然是定義包庇嘛你當然也聽不下去,你就沒力包庇啊但是你沒做,就會有這個問題發生嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16266.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16295.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
他就會挑戰你就會質疑你嘛再來他說你可能有些事情不清楚不懂那個不懂是因為他講的那個介入那個平台是單純你所有的醫師你怎麼可以選擇你這個介入你這個不介入你竟然上那個平台哪有在那邊做多重的選擇那當然是醫師是你要去規劃要規劃很清楚啊你有公務員資格的醫師你就去上那個平台沒有公務員資格的你就不需要上那個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16296.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16320.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
這個也不是很奇怪的一件事情嗎?我說這個問題是說,其實有兩家交通,遇到這個問題,兩家跟一些關心者,有人說得清楚,你現在遇到什麼問題嘛?想要摩托,一時一刻摩托要做什麼處理,你才有主動去跟人家說,你如果沒有主動去跟人家說,對不對?你也明知道今天來這個地方一定會遇到的,你跑不去嘛? |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16322.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16329.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
你若不認識,在補償的情況下,大家說明我清楚,如果有人來這個地方,你問自己都不知道要怎麼回答,你自己也不知道,應該很清楚,他不會說,還說補償。 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16335.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16361.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
所以真的這樣處理事情真的是不對啦齁那我今天要講社會救助法的道理一樣啦齁你看啦齁 我也剛剛有特別提到在15年前大修那個就是我主題的啦 那個也是我大修的啦但是很難改變當時當時的部長還有當時的次長包含那個當時還沒有設修室喔欸 應該是屬於在社會司的底下嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16362.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16367.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
那種舊思維你就是很難去改變它不過我們還是一樣大修了大修六條 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16368.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16396.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
現在最低生活費的標準基本上以前是一致性的 全國是一致性的剛剛熊王委員特別有提到怎麼在這個地方一般縣市跟台北市的對照連基本公司都已經高過了 只有這樣比例所以後來才又改為六都咧以前是五都變成六都嘛那六都就六個標準一般縣市就一般縣市標準離島就離島標準台灣就是八個標準在做處理我們不是沒有因應然後包含這些工業的土地啦 地地利啦我們都有討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16397.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16421.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
那個當然是在規範條件制一旦是會因地制、因狀況去做改變去做審視其實都有相關機制已經都有,大致上有建制完成了但是為什麼執行到一段時間之後還是會覺得不好用啦出地了你說的啦,就很難用啦難在地,你如果在地上站,你就很清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16424.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16444.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
我們對低收入戶當然我們對一般的百姓在辦行政的作業的時候我們都希望變名嘛對不對講求一些行政的效率嘛那對低收入戶跟中低收入戶你有時候你看他在審查過程裡面而且一年都要複審一次耶不是你結帳給國中心跟中結帳給你過的地方你就是英文的耶一年要審查一百耶每一年要審耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16449.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16476.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
我們還討論到哪有今年是低收入戶一年的審查一個條件不合格馬上他隔年就不是低收入戶哪有這麼硬的我們都已經討論到這個情況了但是為什麼這個法律這麼大無修正經過十來年他還是必須要修了而且在這個最低的貧窮線我們到底是怎麼去認定我們有沒有符合這個先進的國家還是我們現在的審核標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16478.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16483.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
還有包含這個平融線的比例是跟派出費一致標準那個人這樣很恐怖對不對跟中國東東市對結收貨跟中結收貨他們的標準拿來去台灣做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16493.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16521.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
我們有條件 我們有修正 有不是沒有但是條沒有很大 報沒有很寬是不是 當然 我在當主席我聽到你講的很多的隱喻嘛 跟這個面向嘛好啊 那這個可能在開始主條討論的時候可能就要把相關的資料備齊啦 大家來對啦但是這個貧窮率的標準 這個也不是委員會自己生出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16522.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16533.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
依照這樣去參考但是他的整個母數的這樣的一個蒐集的計算到底是怎麼樣我們就把它調列得清清楚楚嘛但是他最後最後顯示出來的表就是這個樣子啊好你可以說沒有我們跟日本的計算不一樣我們跟韓國的納入的患者不一樣跟美國不一樣但總而言之也就是總之各國的貧窮率現在算起來就是這樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16548.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16562.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
我們怎麼會跟人家差這麼多?對不對?日本、韓國、美國、英國,我們跟這幾個國家比起來,我們的貧窮率都不到他們的十分之一。台灣真的是富有的國家,讓台灣再次強大。 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16567.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16594.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
有時候你不知道背後是怎麼去計算但是平時出來是這樣日本要去參考台灣是不是依照這個標準依照你這個貧窮率來計算來參考然後他覺得很驚訝的時候他才會去細究你怎麼去採這些基本的母數的計算方式嘛對不對那我必須講說所謂的虛擬虛擬這一塊就更好笑了其實那個是在防懶人啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16596.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16614.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
當時的情境,你好好笑啊,你有基本工作能力啊,只是你自己全部套路啊,我當然也要給你省下去,我要給你試算,我給你試算,你當時試算,試算到多好笑呢,我們十五年前在京都的時候,他試算是比當時的基本工資還高, |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16615.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16627.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
而且那個得言金你知道嗎?那條款50塊,工資50塊就對了那一百的營養,一個的管制給你營養,可以每個人的資格一次可以刷下500到1000人差50塊而已所以我們就在講說怎麼會有一個低收入跟低收入因為三個條件,其中一個條件然後差個50塊它既然是低收入,明年就不是低收入戶了 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16643.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16654.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
土地的價值也是這樣公告地價也不是他自己去調的是地方政府去調的他多調了幾百塊他原本是低收入戶因為多調到幾百塊他隔年不是低收入戶了然後深戶沒有用咧深戶沒有用那有台灣的法律對家屬比較重家屬那些法律就硬到這麼硬硬到這麼細那我們還有深戶委員會喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16670.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16689.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
對不對 就變成大家來承擔相信次長當局長就願意承擔那有的就不太願意他覺得就不是這個樣子所以所有很多面向我們都討論過了那我是覺得說大家都一直而且這次版本到30案還比我們那個申請法還更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16691.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16708.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
還比鵝托還更多所以大家極為重視社會救助法我知道雁板嶺還沒有進來但是跟謙遜瓦都一樣很多委員都已經很在意這件事情所以我也希望說衛部可以加快這個腳步因為社會救助進來要救助是要快 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16713.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16738.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
怎麼有可能說委員本門都已經來了你們很多給部長的報告資料競表同意競表同意競表同意競表同意也競表同意一半以上了那為什麼你們社會救助法要修正的草案到現在都不進來而且從去年到現在而且當時陳院長的時候也答應歡迎委員這樣就不叫做社會救助法 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16742.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16750.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
是不是很不正常,聽我說這麼多,我都沒有跟你說過,你閉嘴你能認真一點跟我說,不然你當時要去哪裡?我們白天你不知道有意思?謝謝,真的稍微記錄了很多我想不管怎麼樣就是加快腳步,因為大家這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16767.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16782.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
社會的關心、委員的關心我們請理事督導趕快用最快的適度來把那個開箱驗版能不能進來這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16783.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16808.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
不是 部長 可能是不是可以你再想一下 答覆清楚一點是不是一個月內 兩個月內行政院版本可以進來到委員會跟所有的委員版本並讓大家趕快來討論因為畢竟我們討論完之後還要經過三讀嘛然後是不是可以適用於這個年度的時候在審查低收入跟中低收入標準的時候就可以來適用 這其一嘛那其二我是第二件事情就剛剛特別講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16809.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16824.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
這些被詐騙的受害者基本上會不會可能要立即來召集像內政部、警政署、法務部等相關的單位來做這樣整個社會安全網跟這一塊的破洞會越來越擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16825.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16848.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
我們如果把這些人可以有效的承接起來在心靈上的一個協助啦在整個法律程序上的一個幫忙還有很多的面向就是不要讓他走到像台中這個案例是不是這個可以也肯定答覆我說一個星期內還是兩個星期內因為這要過啦因為這台詞會這個案發生這樣 我要講那真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16851.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16858.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
有的人會後悔啦他們是坦白講因為時間的關係照理講他們的經濟狀況不是非常不好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16863.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16876.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
後來為什麼他們會走向這樣的絕路?他沒有去找民意代表,但是還沒有繼續下去,後來他也沒有去報警,最後走到這個地方,這就是社會安全幫出問題嘛,怎麼吃?這不是有一個單位在處理,連法證大家一起來,是不是兩個星期內可以召集,提出相關的更積極因應的一些作為? |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16894.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16917.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
好,招委所指示的我覺得非常重要,我們兩個禮拜來把這件事情召開會議召開相關的單位,召集相關的單位來針對這個主題來開會再跟招委報告跟委會好不好,跟委會報告另外一個社會救助法就是院版的草案是不是一個月內可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16919.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16944.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
不然你們的報告給部隊說請表同意請表同意,就都騙人了兩國衛好不好?兩國衛?兩國衛?我們先...我先...好,來你不要跟剛才那個專門要延期延到八月底的人你密謀喔他要延到八月底,你剛才說兩國衛,我覺得你跟他有談判關係喔你注意喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16946.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16970.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
感謝委員啦 我們這個博文其實博長也讓我們這裡記得我們真的是 還有那個各界意見嘛我們都真的在加速推動啦 那個時間我也知道說要快點撒出來我們趕快來提出來 也跟議員那邊來做個報告因為現在已經七月初了嘛 對不對你兩個月勢必超過八月底了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16974.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16987.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
我們加速,我們比較快來處理不然我們這8月底前啦,你們最先兩個月嘛,差不多一禮拜而已啊,好不好?我們下禮拜會就留我們全隊一起...現在出庭了就說兩個月啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16991.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
17003.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
現在七月七千而已,你八月第二就兩個月,我是跟你平息一個禮拜而已你跟三十人計較一個禮拜,你吃了啦不是啦不是啦,我們送到行政議辦部門你要先出來啊我們送到行政議辦這樣啦,好,我們先去行政議辦沒有啦,我是要你一半出來,不是你送去行政議辦,是你去對行政議案,我們這裡叫做理販議案,你是要對我的啊對啦對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
17024.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
17046.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
因為我沒有聽歡迎委員剛才的確診我還不曉得去年他已經跟陳院長已經講過這些事情了那我剛剛特別提到你低收跟他不是只有針對中低跟低收入他還包含吉蘭救助對不對還有重大災害所以就是我的整個面向是所以這是要掛的東西不是說今天開完就給你掛個兩公尺 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
17051.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
17061.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
是之前其實你們都有在研議嘛也聽取各界的意見嘛那我這個時間這麼久的那就不叫社會救助了啊就叫社會緩住啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
17066.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
17084.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
兩國委你自己說,我現在跟你說一個禮拜,你差這麼多,我問你兩國委,你自己說,院門是要提出來,是提到立法院,不是提到行政院喔我們趕快那個,趕快來加速啦,這樣好不好沒有這個加速,你的加速,我加速都兩百,你加速是五十 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
17086.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
17089.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
沒有啦,這位舅舅不可以讓你這樣拖啦,還有生權法勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
17112.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17139.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
好 本會議這個詢討全部結束委員楊耀 林楚英 廖偉祥 蘇清泉 陳穎所提書面執行列入紀錄刊登公報那先做一下決議第一 說明及詢討完畢第二 委員執行未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其所定第三 社會救助法不問條文修正草案等三十案令則即繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17141.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17156.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
那另外做報告後 包委會委員蘇清泉 邱振均 陳穎因受達拉斯颱風影響北上交通受阻 向本委會請假一次好 那本日會議到此結束 現在三位 謝謝大家 謝謝 |