| IVOD_ID |
168010 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168010 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-30T10:04:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-30T10:17:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d0265d86f2f18c67d70aa1f04625ce9e7f5bc5cff238b3be97994c33887c7127231dcb1897cc80d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:04:26 - 10:17:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍年度軍事投資計畫與財政負擔能力之動態平衡評估」，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.169 |
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0.851 |
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主席麻煩顧部長顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
8.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
35.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
是 王老爺部長跟國安部各位同仁大家辛苦我請教一個問題就是說昨天晚上的媒體好消息82套的海馬士發價書在3月30號到期他同意展延到他跟承包商簽約的時候嘛我看到訊息是這樣子這個展延期到底多長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
37.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
47.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
就我們只能推估對大概多長因為如果展延的過程當中我們在委員會在立法院條例冷凍期還有一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
49.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
75.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
冷凍期完了通過之後縱使通過之後邊預算還要回到委員會審查這個延長到底有沒有效果目前我們預估是目前美方表達大概是在五月底到六月初附近會完成意願因為以往正常的做法是我們發價書到時間到之前45天30天內簽約嘛付頭期款嘛美國因為這是軍售美國就會去跟他的承包商簽約嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
76.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
96.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那簽完約就委制開始生產後面是按批次喔所以上次我們講年底如果這一批錯過的話移到年底那個是簽約移到年底可是我們的批次量移到後面去就非優先那個交貨期程會大幅的往後拖啦這對戰力的構成是不利的所以我現在要跟你確定這個事情就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
97.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
125.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
美方在最後一刻同意展現到他跟他的承包商簽約這個是破例還是常態都可以這麼做這是破例我們引用的是他的那個6.2.1的emergency case implementation在我做了27年的軍售案的過程當中這是我們第一次引用這個條款罕見用到這個方式所以這其實是很有風險的他也可以不同意你我已經把你作為盟友把你放在最優先了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
126.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
154.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你自己變不出來啊但是好所以我現在聽到期程是五月份預估是五月份所以我們的預算的籌措最慢最慢要到五月份之前要完成這一件事那我就要請教我不知道這方不方便講頭期款的預算需要多少金額剛剛我有回答就我們現在既有的這個四項四個案子已經拿到吧大概是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
七千九百餘萬美金大概折合新台幣25億左右OK這就是所謂的開辦費啦就是簽約的開辦費他要跟他們的偽製廠商落馬啦各廠商要去做這個簽約款嘛齁所以大概需要籌款至少要25億所以你剛才部長就回答我後面要問的問題因為這個時候發價書到期的不是只有海馬仕啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
182.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
190.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
M109A7也到齊啊還有其他不管是托兒B啦標槍都到齊嘛有的是3月16號就到齊了那個有沒有簽約 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
191.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
216.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們現在因為經過授權了所以我們現在已經提出這個發酵書這個簽署的那現在之後也同樣會面臨那個投棄款的問題授權簽約不給半毛錢能不能簽就簽署的同時當然要開始討論這個能不能往後延的問題那3月10 我印象A7是3月16號到期的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
219.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
246.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
沒有 我們授權發駕輸之後我們有再跟他講簽署發駕輸的時間授權之前我們跟他有講到要發駕輸簽署自己要延後我問的問題的癥結就是發駕輸到期我們要簽約嘛簽約要付deposit money 等於是簽約款嘛那付簽約款海馬斯會有遇到的問題其他的品項應該也會遇到那些問題怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
267.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那個簽署的這個部分因為已經進入程序所以美方他已經把簽署的這一段的作業已經完成那接下來就支付首期款的這個部分原則上我們在這個週末協調當中也針對另外三個案子去做討論美方的回應是 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
268.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
283.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
他們會再確定這三個案的契約時間然後再來跟我們討論後面我們首席款支付延後的時間點會落在什麼時候所以目前已知的四項 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
284.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
303.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
放在特別預算的至少首期款要籌措25億台幣那我印象去年底川普通過的那幾項軍售案有的不是放在特別預算耶當然有的政黨把它寫錯了有的放在年度預算可是我們年度預算到今天都還沒有審那個有沒有影響那個部分跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
306.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
320.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
H1W跟魚叉飛彈的那個定件保修的那個部分它是從114年開始的案所以這兩個案子它是所以科目在了對 他們前面其實已經就年度一戰以後因為H1W影響到我們我們飛訊部歸人的這些飛官 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
325.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
339.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你大量汰除將來要再這是人才的浪費嘛所以讓他研議讓人才可以留下一個飛行員培養是不容易的所以那一塊沒有問題那我請教部長當然現在在野黨的態度特別國民黨的態度是有發酵素我就給啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
341.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
357.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
有沒有可預期的我覺得我們在國會裡面先面對困難那也讓在野黨的朋友了解如果有有沒有可預期的新的軍售案發價書在近期會發生以免以免我們在那邊討論半天協調半天冷凍期一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
358.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
381.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
一過那邊又多新的發價書了我們剛過的東西又不夠用了你懂我意思嗎因為現在看起來在野黨要的那個條文第八條是沒有在這個預算給你一個上限匡列他要你重啟特別條例另外再送個法案可是這樣子坦白講我們認為那根本就不是特別預算也不是好的做法那在近期內有沒有可能有新的發價書就是新的均收案 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
382.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
395.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
12月19那個時候是會國會的有五個案項是預計要擺入特別預算的嘛那其中一個還沒有發現的時候還沒有到就是Artis 700M跟Artis 600ISR這兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
396.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
406.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這是一個案那這個的發價書應該也是近期可能會拿到所以可預計的RTS是700跟那一個夾艙它是700公斤那600是ISR這兩個是一個案所以這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
415.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
435.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
已經送交國會了 巴加蘇還沒送交國會智慧國會已經完成了預期他應該是很快 其實智慧國會一般就應該要開始作業了否則真的會來不及那還有沒有其他可預期的案 包含媒體揭露的我想這個可能沒辦法在這裡做公開的說明那我接下來請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
437.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
455.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們今天樂見看到國民黨的台中市長盧秀燕盧市長她表態支持一兆到八千億的特別條例而且認為不應該等發架書這個講的就內行話了等發架書那個作業來不及那個流程應該要按照這幾十年來建立下來的制度來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
457.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
481.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那當然這到底是宣誓有沒有行動我們就看看國民黨的要角盧秀燕盧市長他能影響到的國民黨委員中部的國民黨委員願不願意支持國家的安全支持國家的國防從宣誓到行動那我要請教部長齁你有沒有打個電話給他沒有感謝一下嗎 沒有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
483.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
512.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我想我們還是來大院裡面做報告這裡是你們的本務啦這裡國會需要聯繫要怎麼樣我建議行政部門未必有國防部我建議行政部門其實大家對國家安全的想像是一致的這是最好的我們政黨有很多不同政黨可以有很多競爭但是攸關國家安全攸關國軍要使用的武器裝備我覺得這沒有什麼黨派之分有一致的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
513.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
535.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們就可以以正面的肯定當然一兆還是離我們1.25兆那個是詳實的計畫有點落差這可以溝通但我建議就是透過這些意見領袖的表態化為行動也許我們在國會裡面討論這個案子可以慢慢收容減少一些政黨上的不管是意氣用事或惡鬥所以有關這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
537.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
554.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
盧秀燕盧市長他對軍購表態我個人建議國防部或者行政院適度的適度的我覺得這是一個正向的發展雖然金額還是有落差但是總是往前又走了一點點部長你覺得怎麼樣我想因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
556.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
583.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就這個特別預算要面對的就是大院嘛我想我們會跟所有草野各界來做溝通不過我們想我們主要會來進行溝通就大眾還有像各位委員那我想跟盧市長之間的部分我如果要或者不要這個部分我想我們再跟我印象你有跟他同事過我們第九屆的時候他是立委嘛你也是立委嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
584.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
610.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
是 我在金管會他在財政委員會所以應該是有認識的當然為了國家大義我覺得我們就盡最大的努力不過特別預算特別條例是經過不管是我們國防部內部詳實的會議跟盟友之間的討論它是一個非常紮實科學準備的過程才有這1.25兆裡面不管是對外採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
611.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
629.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
台美建立在台灣的供應鏈或者是不對稱戰力或者整合我們的防空體系形成T-DOM這是一個完整的使用的用途所以除了金額以外8年期 它是8年1.25兆8年期的這個特別預算在使用用途上不能去 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
630.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
650.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
把台灣自己內部要建立供應鏈啊或者相關的不對稱戰力的誘因等等把它拿掉這是有點可惜所以我建議國防部在溝通的時候除了金額以外其實用途也很重要我昨天還是前天看到古立言他直接講不是只有對美軍購喔在台灣建立這一個供應鏈等不對稱戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
652.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
675.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
非常重要所以這盟友也這樣提了所以部長我建議多方溝通立法院有時候直走有牆壁有時候繞著走會有樓梯所以我覺得這個為了國家大義要一起來努力真件兵工產線還有無人機的產制落地化然後形成國防任性這確實是非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
676.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
687.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
非常重要 那很重要 那個金額也許佔比沒那麼大 但是其實對台灣的防衛眾生 軍備 軍需的眾生很重要我最後建議一件事情 有關扣除額的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
688.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
717.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我現在還有其他但來不及了我建議好請夜館參謀存餐然後看怎麼回覆我就是說我們現在後備軍人我們2.3就是230萬的後備軍人那參加教召我們現在14天的教召越來越紮實這是好事那演訓漢光演習有編了一個是一個後備軍人的後備旅這都是好的方向那我建議多一個配套誘因像美國國民兵後備部隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
719.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
745.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
參加離開家鄉160公里以上的他除了可以扣差旅費以外呢他可以有一些所得稅的扣除額也就是說當會當後備軍人的一定是年輕力壯年齡在就業範圍內所以當他來投入14天的教召或者漢光演習的時候呢對於他一些所得可以不記錄科稅所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
745.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
767.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
或者呢列一些扣除額這其實不僅是一個鼓勵這其實是一個尊崇就是你作為一個軍人哪怕你是後備軍人國家願意向你致敬雖然扣除額也許不會很多額不會相當高但是這一個會讓我作為一個後備軍人我現在14天叫招我這些報的錢不用報稅然後另外呢我在 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
768.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
793.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
公司裡面一些所得呢還可以有抵扣額甚至於雇主也可以有抵扣額這個除了增加誘因以外是給軍人一個尊重這個我給部長跟我們夜餐這些參謀大家做參考那我們一起來努力這個方向這可能需要跟財政部做財政部管錢管很緊啦但我覺得這個是一個可以推動方向而且美軍有美國有這樣的情形好不好那以上給國防部做參考 謝謝 |