| IVOD_ID |
16800 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16800 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-03 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-03T08:30:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-03T12:02:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:31:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a60959e42cc9336cac581097cfa4245e41490d5b2c3b93916c394b5eff88bbdd58be5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會「行使司法院院長、副院長及大法官同意權案」公聽會（事由：第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會「行使司法院院長、副院長及大法官同意權案」公聽會） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:17 - 12:02:00 |
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5 4 3 5 4 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 TEST TEST 1 2 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 35 4 3 2 1 1 2 3 4 5 1 1 2 3 4 5我幫您校對都沒有問題1 2 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 0 9 0 0 1 2 3 1 2 35 4 3 5 4 3 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 1 2 3 1 2 35 4 3 5 4 3 1 4 3 1 2 3 |
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970.269 |
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972.37 |
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是泰大生還是泰小生? |
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988.786 |
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989.667 |
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1 2 3 1 2 3 5 4 3 2 1 5 4 3 2 1 1 2 3 4 51 2 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 3大堡觀光廳或群仙酒樓1 2 3 1 2 31 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 5 4 3 5 4 |
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1012.717 |
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123123換一隻1234554321123群仙酒樓123123群仙酒樓12312354321123451234512345543 543123沒聲音 |
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1046.445 |
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這邊的聲音1 2 3 1 2 3這邊好像比較大聲一點1 2 3 4 5 4 3 2 1緩突緩突緩突大法官公聽會 |
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1064.929 |
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1069.75 |
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大法官公聽會1234512345大法官公聽會12345123455432154321123123123123321321大法官公聽會12345很小聲 |
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1281.949 |
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1290.475 |
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緩渡緩渡退卸123123大保官公聽會大保官公聽會12345123451234512345大保官公聽會1234512345還是輪的問題123123緩渡緩渡退卸123123大保官公聽會1234512345欸有人來了 |
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1784.923 |
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1801.958 |
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好 謝謝我們現在開始開會本院周秘書長各位列席的學者專家本院各位委員女士先生還有本院所有的工作夥伴們各位新聞界的好朋友今天我們舉行的是司法院人事同意權公聽會依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1803.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1825.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
本會期第16次會議所作決定辦理預計中華民國憲法及憲法徵修條文之規定司法院大法官執司解釋憲法、統一解釋法律及命令並組成憲法法庭審理總統、副總統之彈劾、政黨違憲解散等相關事項在我國憲政制度上具有崇高地位 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1826.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1853.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
本院依憲法附託代表人民行使統一權針對每位被提名人之資格進行審查因此舉辦本次公聽會議作為審查之參考本次受黨團推薦出席的學者專家均為領域內長期努力深獲肯定之重要代表具備豐富的法證學養相信一定能夠為本院委員所提供的寶貴的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1854.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1883.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
在此感謝各位為本次工地會所做的準備與接下來的發言針對今天工地會進行的程序現在特別做以下的宣告一 發言時程每位學者專家發表的時間為十分鐘審查小組委員每位詢問的時間同為十分鐘本院委員發言完畢之後再由學者專家代表綜合答覆三十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1884.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1896.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因此,请各位学者专家发表高见之后也能听取本院各党团所推派之委员代表之询问发言最后,还要请各位学者专家赐教答复 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1897.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1916.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
等今天整个会议议程圆满结束之后我们再行离开二发言顺序先由学者专家发言本次审查小组委员发言最后由学者专家都综合答复相关的发言顺序请参阅陈列于各位桌上的名单 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1917.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1931.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
各黨團所推薦的學者專家審查小組委員如果不在場或必要時得調換次序另外在發言結束前一分鐘我們會按一個短鈴發言時間屆滿時我們會再按一個長鈴現在我們首先要進行發言請林騰耀委員進行發言時間十分鐘請 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1948.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1970.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
謝謝主席 各位女士 各位學生 大家早針對今天公聽會的主題我寫了一篇 喚起民眾赴憲政 春禪到時施放禁 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1972.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1995.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個書面發言放在立法院所發的文件上另外我也附上了有關賴清德三大惡政傷害人民賴清德的七大惡政失去人民的信任賴清德 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2004.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2030.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個礦工之子的稅改沒有為弱勢來發聲另外還有一些一篇很重要的就是全沒有反省改革賴清德全沒有反省改革當了總統就耍賴更重要的一篇就是台灣民主的現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2032.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2059.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
民族已成笑話,進步則免談總共有二十幾篇文章談到憲政敗壞的情況這些文件請大家參閱,便指教現在我來做一些深入的口頭表白跟說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2061.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2085.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那麼我們都知道這個憲政的破毀非常嚴重所以我今天在這個國會的殿堂裡要公開的譴責賴清德他濫用總統權力違反憲法忠誠義務的惡劣行徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2088.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2114 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我認為他所提的大法官人選不應該獲得國會的同意我為什麼說賴清德濫用總統權力呢因為在上次大法官提名時他提名了他的選舉跑腿所謂的競選主委姚立民副教授來當司法院副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2115.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2144.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
大家都知道姚立民沒有什麼著作可以升等的正教授不符合教授擔任大法官的資格賴清德竟然用了戒嚴實情研究法學富有政治經驗的條款提名他擔任大法官兼司法院副院長這實在是藐視法學界恣意濫用總統的大法官提名權而這一次更加離譜的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2146.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2170.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
賴清德變本加厲竟然提名一個只任一二審檢察署主任檢察官的蔡秋名要來擔任司法院長要來擔任憲法法庭的主席顛倒了各級法院各個法庭檢察官應受法官指揮節制的司法天理這種濫用總統權力的惡行 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2174.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2193.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
應該受到人民的譴責大家都知道現實檢察官的社會公信力很低2023年3月2號司法信心民意調查記者會所公布資料有84.7%的人民認為檢察官辦案會受政治的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2199.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2222.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
而司法官淪為當權的打手的現象現在更日益明顯更嚴重被民進黨奉為憲法國師的女洪喜教授2008年11月22日在台灣我們的國家的群眾大會上 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2225.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2250.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
就曾表示很多法律學生去做那種不公不義的法官不公不義的檢察官所以我很痛苦那些做法官的亂來那些做檢察官的亂來我要詛咒他們詛咒他們一代兩代三代多不得好死所以真的很難過的他講出這麼沉痛的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2252.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2269.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
因此賴清德破壞審檢分立原則提名社會風評不好的檢察官來擔任司法院長以及提名缺乏憲政宣揚沒有什麼司法風骨的法官來擔任司法院副院長大法官是不恰當的是藐視國會多數恣意濫用總統權力的惡行 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2276.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2304.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
另外這次所提大法官來自協證的蕭文森、陳慈揚、張振隆等三位教授都自稱是憲法專家但他們都缺乏憲政道德良知與靈魂在蔡英文假論文事件以及習秀前大法官指稱蔡英文叫罵大法官司法尊嚴被嚴重傷害的事件中經未挺身指責蔡英文 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2306.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2331.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
而對賴清德這一多年來違反憲法忠誠義務違憲亂政的整整惡劣行徑也都靜落寒蟬毫不作聲完全缺乏可以擔任大法官應有的司法風骨前幾天我看到他們又像司法羔羊一般的被總統府人馬帶去立法院拜會黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2334.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2361.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
難道他們不懂人事審議案,事前不可接觸審查人嗎?他們可以為了大法官名位,彎腰哈貝地去敗票,去求票嗎?蕭文森、陳慈揚、張振榮也自稱是行政法專家但對法治國的破毀,特別是行政程序法在蔡英文、賴清德總統任內被一再地踐踏 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2362.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2375.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
行政機關在防疫爐作戰的事件中濫用使用者付費歪理強制人民購買政府用預算徵收來的口罩 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2376.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2402.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
以及在疫苗採購、超私壞蛋事件中將公權力頓入司法公然違反憲法法律及行政程序法第四條至第十條所規定應遵守的一般法律原則的種種惡行他們都沒有斥責賀子之身完全缺乏法律人應有的憲政公義靈魂與道德良知 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2404.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2423.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
接下來我為什麼要譴責賴清晨違反憲法忠誠義務違憲亂政呢最明顯的他是違反憲法明確信言者致意縱容行政院長違憲違法行政的憲政天理憲法正確條文第三條明確規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2425.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2451.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
行政院對立法院決議之法律案 議事案驚啼赴議而被否決時行政院長應即接受該立法院所決議之法律案 議事案但這一年來賴清德不斷的縱容行政院長左翁泰拒絕接受立法院所通過便經否決赴議之財政法官法案中央政府總結案等違憲的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2452.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2477.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
完全違反憲法第48條所明明規定的總統的憲法忠誠義務憲法第48條要求總統應於就職時宣誓以及以至誠向全國人民宣誓一臂遵守憲法盡忠職務但是賴清德完全沒有遵守這一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2479.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2500.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們都知道憲法是人民用來控制統治者的寶貝單一憲法是綱要法是漏洞最多 空隙最大的法律為了防止總統投機技巧 專法律漏洞所以設了三道防線那麼這幾道防線請大家參考這個文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2505.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2524.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
最後我要談到蔡英、賴清德對玩弄當權大法官選拔制度的缺失特別是耍弄大法官資格規範的缺失,濫用了大法官圖名的潛力 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2525.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2537.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
因此我在這裡先決主張,在不良大法官的推薦選拔制度未被修正以前對於蔡英德所謂敗壞民主、違背司法公正性的提名,均應加以豁解 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2539.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2565.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
各位女士各位先生我是一個看盡人事一切福臣也知國硬興衰行將就木的老人看到賴清德濫用總統權力違反憲法忠誠義務還不認為自己是中國人的惡劣言行不得不站出來說出賴清德敗壞憲政危害人民的真相 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2567.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2594.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
最後我要表示的是對獨裁者的防範與反對是公民的天職也是立法委員的義務因此我在這裡公開呼籲各位立法委員不要同意賴清德所提名的人擔任大法官以免賴清德結合總統權、行政權、立法權、考試權、監察權、司法權及媒體權融為一頭七錢合一的憲政野獸 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2595.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2608.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
禍害國家傷害人民謝謝大家好謝謝林教授的寶貴意見謝謝接下來我們請登記第二位黃明輝黃教授請發表十分鐘寶貴意見謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2612.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2632.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
主席在場的各位先進以及媒體朋友大家好以下我針對這一次大法官提名跟審查身為一個憲法學者我覺得在理想跟現實的部分來跟各位做一些分享不過當然是因為是學者所以其實主要講的是理想現實到時候會怎樣其實我們就可以來做一個對照 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2634.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2654.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
首先我認為我們在談大把關提名的時候一定要注意一件事情一般我們會覺得人事權的這一件事情當然在行政這邊有很大的一個掌控力但是作為一個獨立的,反正是一個獨立的憲政機關在這樣子的人事的一個提名跟審查上我覺得我們應該要盡量拋棄政黨競爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2658.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2675.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這是一個共同為國舉財所以政黨的成見其實應該盡量淡化尤其我們已經有第一階段的攻防了這是第二次的補題名我覺得這部分是朝野雙方都必須要有所認知做一個收斂的共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2678.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2692.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
然後我們如果比較一下美國的這個制度美國的制度其實跟台灣很像他們必須要經過總統提名經過參議院的諮詢與同意那麼才會成為大法官那這跟我們的程序是非常相似的 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2695.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2712.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這個諮詢與同意的程序是不是就意味著我們一定只能把提名跟後面的人事同意權做一個截然的劃分就是國內有一些學者會說提名權是在總統身上所以立法院永遠不可能在前階段去介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2713.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2737.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
但是如果我們仔細去想一想我們憲法之所以要設計這種所謂的提名跟同意的程序就是希望把這樣的一個重要的獨立的憲政機關的人事權交由國會跟總統共享既然是共享它其實在政治上有很多的一個運作的可能性其實在美國其實這個總統跟國會在事前就人選做事前的諮商其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2739.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2762.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這個並不是不允許甚至是很常見的事情可以讓國會在前階段就有一定的意見的參與其實可以化解接下來的人選在通過同意權的難度這其實是一個很好的互動目前看起來尤其是從過去第一次的提名看起來雙方的撫慰互動似乎是不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2763.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2790.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那如果你說這個互動的話我覺得責任可能在提名人這邊多一點因為畢竟他是掌握主動那我不知道是不是有一些總統的憲政幕僚跟他說這個千萬不能夠讓立法院在前階段介入否則這就是干涉這個總統的提名權其實我想這是不至於的啦不至於的特別是尤其如果這是以一個非正式的方式來進行的話我覺得我們做權力分立 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2790.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2805.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
本來就不是分立而對抗應該還是要分立跟溝通才能夠取得協調尤其如果你看美國是一次選一次提名一次審查一個大法官那我們是一次多位大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2806.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2834.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
在這樣的情況之下其實更有必要做一個通盤的考量總統在做通盤考量的時候我覺得考量到立法院作為最高的民意機關我覺得這個地方可以讓立法院有更多的參與才可以化解接下來可能產生的這些相關的人事上的僵局我覺得在我們台灣的這種實質總統制或是有人喜歡講說是偏總統制的半總統制不管你怎麼稱呼總統在這邊他有一定的實際的主導權 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2835.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2852.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那我覺得這個部分其實是可以努力去建構一些政治性的一個機制那以後讓我們的總統的提名跟立法院的同意之間可以有同步可以有一定程度的一個協調性而不是只是充斥著對抗 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2854.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2876.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
接下來如果我們看大法官提名的重點如果我們看美國的話美國的大法官人事懲罰的重心會著重在過往的職業時機、司法經驗還有社會形象與聲望當然還有理念上的適宜性理念上的適宜性當然是特別指涉的是希望不要有太過於強烈的這種特定的意識形態 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2877.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2897.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
尤其在這個總統這個所屬政黨在國會的席次跟這個反對黨是接近的情況之下更需要注意這樣一個人選的一個適宜性那當然還有其他的這些背景的考慮其中包括性別我對於這次的總統的提名單裡面我們有這個高達一半是女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2898.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2924.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我覺得這個部分是必須要給予高度肯定的那立法院要怎麼做實質的審查呢這邊也是覺得立法委員在這邊是責任重大因為既然兩個總統跟立法院之間缺乏事前的協調那麼接下來的審查就非常重要那食物界出身的我會建議去爬梳他們過往的實際辦理的指標性案件他到底對人權跟司法有何具體貢獻我當然知道我們今天的被提名的人都有提出一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2925.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2948.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這一些他們過往的經驗但是其實我想我們立法會員可以做更細緻的梳理更細緻而不是像流水帳一樣列出來就覺得好像做了很多事那學藝術系的著作可以去排行他們的一個著作他們展現出來對司法角色跟人權實踐的理解跟關懷這個都是可以作為主要的一個考量的一個基準點 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2949.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2972.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
另外我對執政黨跟在野黨在這邊各自有期許,我希望兩邊都要知道,讓憲法法庭運作下去,這個是總統跟立法院雙方的責任,不是只有立法院這一方,總統也有,因為我剛才講的這是一個sharing of power,共享的權利,兩邊都有責任,權利分立不是對抗,而是要共同去協力行說一個可運作的政府, |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2973.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2995.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以在這樣的情況之下我們這次通過的人選基本上在做審查的時候我們這個不能夠說設定我只要一個或兩個其實真的就是要秉持的為國舉才做總體的考量讓我們的憲法法庭能夠以一個最健全的方式去運作下去那在這樣的前提下我想執政黨真的不宜再以反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2996.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3017.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
對執政黨為理由去否定被提名人因為你這樣的做法會嚴重惡傷司法的中立跟獨立性你對於那些通過的人情何以堪而且另外這也有可能是對我們執政黨驕傲的一種反噬我們的執政黨很喜歡說以前例如說馬總統提名的某某大法官現在也不見得贊同國民黨的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3018.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3032.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
就是說這個可見我們職場立場是非常好是很驕傲的但是如果你自己在提名同意的時候你自己去反否決這個曾經反對過你的人的話那請問你的驕傲何在 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3033.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3062.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這豈不是擺明了你提名的你同意的都是你的人何必這樣子呢法律的思考法律的思考跟政治的思考本來就會有所差異所以法律學者對政治的一些決策提出批評是很正常的事情我反而不太能夠理解一個法律學者怎麼可能從頭到尾長期的都支持某一個單一的政黨的政策跟理念這才是讓人不理解的另外在野黨我還是要強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3063.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3092.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
不以以單一的理念因素去全盤否定被提名人尤其說因為你反對死刑所以我打死都不讓你當大法官我覺得如果一個法律學者或是一個實務的實務家他向來對於人權生命權他有一定的看法然後他現在為了通過這一個立法院的審查改口說這個我覺得死刑是有條件贊成等等大家不會覺得很可怕嗎我們要的是有風骨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3092.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3112.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
有理念的還是要這種隨波逐流的我覺得這個部分是立法委員必須要仔細去思考的而且即使同樣的理念它有不同的實踐的路徑我支持廢死但是可能我認為廢死還是要透過民主程序或者是在民主程序思編還沒有成熟之前我們要給政治力一定的尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3113.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3139.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這也是一種廢死的理念但是他願意去跟其他的價值妥協那這個部分我們有沒有必要因為這樣子始終你就是廢死那我就要全盤否定你尤其是我們要注意現在立法院自己修法把憲法訴訟法的宣告這個法律違憲的門檻已經拉高了既然你已經把門檻拉高了那麼單一的因素就應該要降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3139.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3159.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
你之前可以說因為過半就會宣告法律違憲等等就可以做成憲法裁判所以我們的人權的理念我們要更加的單純化絕對不可以有任何主張死刑的在裡面但是現在既然門檻已經拉高了我想這個部分其實就應該要淡化如果因為單一的理念而不考慮其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3160.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3174.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
沒有去通盤考慮其他的因素而言不只對被提名人而言是不公平的對國家也是一個損失因為我們可能會讓一些優秀的法律人失去擔任大法官來實踐人權的機會最後我再利用這個是因為有一個很大膽的建議因為其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3176.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3203.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這兩次提名大家對於這一個院長副院長提名人的司法的特質沒有大概沒有什麼太大的疑慮但是對於他們擔任院長譬如說檢查體系來當司法院長適合嗎那缺乏行政歷練的來擔任院長適合嗎但是對於他們擔任大法官其實是沒有什麼太大的資格上的疑慮的那我覺得我們可以審慎思考是不是可以把正副院長的行政職司法行政職跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3204.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3227.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
大法官的部分做一個分流那我在簡報裡面有提到了我們在憲法裡面本來就是先有到完身份才有行政職所以這兩個確實司法行政司法審判是可以分開的啦而且我想我們的立法院也應該可以有這樣的一個一定的程序的自主性那這樣做法也可以為朝野的互動拉出更大的空間那期盼朝野與社經文言天後台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3229.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3248.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好 謝謝黃明輝教授的發言 謝謝接下來我們請賴秉強律師請發言時間十分鐘 謝謝院長在座各位大家好那我受貴院邀請來就這一個大法官人選表示意見我覺得可能資格上來講這幾位大法官都是我在法學界的前輩不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3249.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3264.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
院見還有學者部分尤其是諸多學者都是我以前大學時期的老師那我認為說這些在學經濟方面都非常的具有資格那我一開始接到這個邀請的時候感到非常困惑 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3265.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3285.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那不過聽完前面兩位專家學者之後才有一些理解我覺得有一些必須在專家學者立場上要有一定的澄清雖然說我剛剛有聽到蔡英文前總統論文的看法進而影響大法官人選我很訝異啦因為我覺得今天不是已經2025年了怎麼還會有論文的問題那 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3288.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3309.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
在這個論述之下我覺得有幾個要說明第一個就是說對於復議之後行政院長是不是一定要受拘束雖然說可能跟貴院的立場不見得一致但是就目前的憲法法庭跟多數學者看起來應該是在刑事線的空間跟正當性是具備的那檢方到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3311.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3339.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
蔡檢察官就是我們現在的司法院院長的提名人會不會因為只是擔任檢方而不具有資格我認為這個論述也是很難以理解啦就是過往我們在這個憲法實務上提名檢察官出身的作為大法官人選這個一向都沒有任何疑義那接著提到就是說學者可不可以因為不就特定的議題來表達意見就否定學者具有資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3340.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3364.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那我覺得這也沒有看到就是說為什麼學者一定要表示意見這個論述我也無法理解啦所以這個是我跟第一位專家學者不一樣意見的地方那我跟第二位就是黃教授比較一致的或是我非常贊同他意見就是說或許在大法官的審查部分我們應該更多一點的是就司法行政跟司法專業部分進行探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3365.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3391.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那司法專業這幾位都是我的前輩我沒有什麼資格去評論我比較建議貴院可以去針對去詳實的討論是雖然我不知道這是不是一個單純形式的一個流程但我認為說目前在司法實務上最大問題應該是司法上的過勞就是司法人員無論是法官、數據官跟法助檢察官等有很嚴重過勞的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3391.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3417.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那透過這個公聽會我想要把這個過勞以及對人民權益的影響跟各位報告也希望在審查大法官人選的時候可以針對大法官人選請在座的立委就是如果因為各位還具有這個公權力可以去詢問大法官這個問題就是有一個案例就是我先不要講特定是誰不是我個人案例就是有一個案例是在地檢署就是有一個被告 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3418.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3447.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
他被告之後呢他的律師積極的替他舉證舉證之後呢很詳實的說明他不在場證明但是卻一直等不到這個不起訴那結果後來因為被告受到司法的壓力那後來就因病過世那家屬就很不了解就這樣所以最後他得到的不是不起訴而是其他的刑事輸入法的決定那導致家屬們就覺得他是不是抑鬱而終這樣那這個其實某種程度上來講就是反映了 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3448.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3465.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
司法實務上來講過勞的問題就我去詢問目前從事司法實務的法界的朋友他們告訴我說一個月大概要接60到70件不等的案件那一個月至少要平均要截掉12件才可以避免 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3466.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3491.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
他的骨別被認為是有延遲的情況所以我在這邊是希望可以就司法行政的部分呢由立法院來請教到時候的大法官人選尤其是這次比較特別是由檢方來擔任院長的時候要請教他是對於司法過勞的部分怎麼解決那司法過勞的解決之外呢因為目前司法實務上來講他們每個月的加班時數呢就是以20個小時為上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3492.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3512.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那這幾乎已經是脫離實務太久了幾乎不太可能一個司法實務只做20個小時他們基本上都絕對是20到30、40個小時以上那這部分的加班費有沒有考慮給他們有合理的加班費的補償或補休這才符合4至785的大法官的意旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3513.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3538.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那接著就是說有沒有可能在斟酌原額不會受到太多衝擊的情況下增補所謂的書記官甚至是增補司法官人選那大家看新聞都知道新北地檢署在近期都有大量的檢察官離開檢察官的職務那我想如果看一些新聞也知道他們的工作量非常繁重那甚至有些前檢察官在他的臉書上說他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3540.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3565.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
甚至是沒有冷氣啦就是這個只要下班時間就沒有冷氣那甚至那個放卷證的櫃子都已經被壓壞了都沒有辦法去更新他的櫃子就這樣所以對於目前工作的司法官而言有沒有就加班費或者說比如說最好的工作環境那做一個改善跟調整那這一次比較特別就是因為是檢方出身的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3567.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3583.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
作為檢察官作為司法院院長的提名有沒有考量就是就檢方目前的工作環境的部分與調整那這部分也要希望各位到立法院的各位委員可以請教一下那接著就提到就是說他們目前有幾個方向這個是我重整 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3586.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3601.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
目前學理跟實務大家問的問題就是第一個就是說或許可以考量的是增加法官助理的人數目前實務上來講一位法官是一位就是一位法官助理那大家都知道像各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3601.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3617.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
平常工作繁忙一定不可能對於所有的案件包含這個所謂立法的法律內容等都親力親為都會有助理那法官在每個月平均要將近快六七十件的情況下有沒有考量就是第一個增加法官助理的人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3618.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3636.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那這邊可不可以透過司法院尤其是院長跟副院長作為行政職的部分來配合這個立法院來徵修來授予他們更多的權利那包含檢方目前已經開始在這幾年因應詐騙案件逐步徵聘檢察官助理那有沒有可能擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3636.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3661.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那第二個就是書記官書記官的部分有沒有可能擴大書記官的每個法官所配給的一股或到兩股更多的書記官去協助因為優秀的書記官甚至有15件的書記官這是非常重要我舉一個實務上的案例就是在司法執行案件的時候書記官他必須要做到的可能一年有將近數百件的執行案件就是要去法院的拍賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3662.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3682.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那有時候其實在人名的資料的,比如說不管是他的分配,或者說進行拍賣過程裡面,很多數據官是非常的忙碌的,甚至連電話都沒辦法接,那甚至有時候我們律師食物界寫書狀進去,數據官都沒有辦法及時去了解,那有時候遇到比較即時性的拍賣,或者說即時性的執行的時候,都會很大的困難,所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3684.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3711.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
在實務上分享上來講的話就是說有沒有考量就是增加法官書記官以及法法官助理或檢察官助理的人選然後還有加班費的部分這些都是我認為說我們撇開政治因素就很實務面對國人同胞來講就是如果要讓國人同胞獲得一個有信任的司法品質跟可以信任的司法的審判實務過程裡面就是不要太久也不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3712.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3730.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
讓法官乃至於檢察官幾乎沒有辦案的空間這是第一點那第二點可能就是比較針對在未來就司法院長的提名因為司法院長人選的提名來講我認為資格並不如此前的學者所認為沒有資格我認為是具有資格的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3731.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3755.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那但是有一個問題比較有趣的地方是因為在我國憲法實務上比較少見的是檢方出身作為司法院長的擔任那這個會有一個很有趣的問題是這個沒有不是說這個背景的出身不對或是說有任何疑義我認為是符合資格而且沒有問題的再度強調我的疑問應該是說假設有一天很純粹的探討就是法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3757.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3778.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
檢方的立場跟司法院院方立場不一致的時候因為我們大家在立法院都知道有時候院方對某些法條的立場跟檢方的就是法務部立場不一致的時候這時候到底院長會是以誰的立場為主那這個因為時間有限我可以這個借花獻佛就是民間司改會其實都有列出很多的法條部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3779.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3794.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那我覺得這邊這個問題可以請到時候要反請各位立委去請教未來的院長人選就是如果有一天法務部的對法條的見解跟司法院院版的見解不一致的時候他會以誰的意見為主那這時候他會不會尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3795.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3824.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
同樣是院方出身的副院長或其他大法官的人選那這個是可以去在座討論的那總而言之時間的因素我認為各位大法官的人選我覺得都具備學經歷學經歷或是說他們在司法書界的貢獻我覺得都是符合資格的那但是在很多議題上尤其是比較困難的司法行政跟如何去很切實的改善司法過勞問題然後讓民眾對於司法有感的部分我覺得可能要這部分多加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3825.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3842.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那最後一個就是就院方跟檢方立場未來會不會有一個比較因為這是我不知道在中華民國憲政史上有沒有檢方出身的司法院長這個我不確定,那比較少見有沒有新的想法跟新的判斷這樣,以上謝謝好謝謝賴秉祥律師寶貴的發言接下來我們請黃國忠律師請表達寶貴意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3850.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3879.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
尊敬的韓院長各位委員中民署長各位貴賓各位好朋友司法改革是誰的責任A監察委員不要開玩笑了聯考狀元經濟學教授要調查司法案件弄到最後大水沖倒龍王廟自己辭職只差沒有跟他祖父一樣去跳逆羅江而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3882.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3898.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
總統嗎?總統開了兩次全國司改會議沒有管理學者、社會學者甚至統計學者的指導法律人群聚一堂至今仍然在家戶病房我今天藉著 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3900.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3925.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
笛卡爾的坐標系四個項線來分析我國司法的問題民事訴訟法的技術性太高國民進到法院第一句話都講不出來第一句話就是說你要告什麼就是被告應幾戶原告什麼什麼再來呢最高法院的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3927.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3946.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
美國跟德國的最高法院還有聯邦法院判決書都數十頁幾百頁質地有深那日本跟台灣的最高法院他不想處理法律問題覺得很麻煩就用一紙裁定說 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3949.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3963.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
說你沒有以違背法令當理由也是質地有身當事人一邊丟到地上一邊一直罵再來是刑事訴訟的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3966.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3985.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
偽造文書,這個文書在暫行新行歷是指有權利義務的文書所以晚年、日記、書畫都不算偽造樹壓,我猜很多人不曉得說樹壓就是簽名 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3988.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4007.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
所以連這個都還分不清楚那我國刑事事務最嚴重的問題就是說犯罪從自己的嘴巴吐出來這非常的歪曲人性扭曲人性所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4008.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4018.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我都建議當事人白口莫辯戴白色的口罩不要去講一大堆的事情因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4021.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4044.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
國家其實沒有訊問的權利訊問是給嫌疑人一個辯白的機會如果你不擔心當啞巴那麼所講出來的每一句話都有可能作為呈堂證供我們在電視跟電影上不是看了很多嗎所以我在這邊要 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4046.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4063.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
強烈的建議仿效日本的刑事訴訟法第198條國民沒有印照也沒有奉照的義務到警察局跟調查站甚至檢察署 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4064.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4077.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
可以不要去去了以後也可以隨時自由離開你看日本在這方面就比我們進步很多因為他們已經了解了國家訊問的本質 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4080.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4102.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那去年12月我在對面的台大校友會館陳聰行政院長主持的學術研討會有對113憲判制第九號就是國會改革法案提出批判康德的所謂三大批判批判是指 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4103.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4120.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
徹底考察的意思那我們今天沒有時間詳細報告我只是說事情都要深入的研究那我們智庫的高思博趙吉仁也當過立法委員很關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4122.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4149.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
司法過動司法過動兒的問題因為現在少數政府凡事事情都起臨於大法官那剛剛好美國第一個違憲審查的案件就是馬布里案件我弄了一張麥迪遜的那個照片五千塊的美鈔大家都沒見過那是銀行之間互相流通的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4150.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4172.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
他是第一個違憲審查案的被告這個第一個違憲審查案的內容是什麼是說最高法院沒有第一審的管轄權剛剛好符合高思博委員的願望而且我還要說行政訴訟法的第二條有講到說行政法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4173.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4200.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
可以管公法上的爭議所以很多的行政院立法院行政院跟立法院的爭執其實要拿到行政法院要先去解決這個就是憲法訴訟法所講的利用審計救濟程序的用盡原則而且跟台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4201.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4228.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
的前途還有過去的秘密習相關的中美共同防禦條約高金水參議員去告卡特總統也是到華盛頓特區他的地方法院先去起訴最後才上訴到美國聯邦最高法院不是每一件事情都可以先跑到大法官那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4231.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4259.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
再來我要講的第四項線的問題就是法院組織法剛剛有講到說法官助理的問題其實法院組織法下級法官到上級法院去辦事其實侵害了國民的省籍利益因為上下省的法官他彼此認識就會有人情的問題就會設圈套 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4261.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4276.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
鬥爭自己過去的下級法院的同事這一類的問題我們在甄嬛傳看多了所以這個助理辦事不要找下級法院的法官要找耶魯哈佛北大東大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4277.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4300.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
學生優秀學生來當法官助理我說的北大東大是指台北大學跟東吳大學還有東海大學大家都沒有去想過這個法院組織法所帶來的侵害國民省籍利益的問題而且更重要的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4301.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4324.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
司法院院長掌控了全國的法官人士你要到台北來上班兒子要到台中比較好的學校去念書都要經過這個人事審議委員會人事審議委員會分兩派啦一派叫做院長派一派叫做海選派 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4325.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4349.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那照諾貝爾經濟學獎納什均衡他們兩派之間最重要的均衡是什麼是互相交換嘛互相勾結這是我國司法人士制度最重要的缺失對於那個法官獨立審判的精神對於孤鳥型的法官最不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4350.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4374.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
然後我花了很多篇幅列舉了各國的法官選任跟調動的制度今天沒有辦法試講就直接跳到維根斯坦的《語言哲學》維根斯坦那張照片我為什麼要特別提是因為這些大法官德國留學不敢欺師滅主 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4375.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4402.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
立法院有調查權立法院的院會可以主持調查委員會那憲判制113號卻說立法院的委員會不可以自己成立調查委員會這個大致上是沒有錯但是我要說的就是說我們要看憲法裁判的內容再來就是Robert Borg我在西門捷運站 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4404.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4418.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那個保存門的精神橡膠上面碰到法務部長李查訊李查訊梅克森總統要李查訊免掉水門檢查案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4421.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4439.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
特別檢察官李察訓辭職政務次長也辭職那Borg覺得說法務部這間店還要開下去於是他就免掉這個特別檢察官的職務後來Borg被提名當最高法院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4440.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4457.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
大法官兩次都沒有通過徐中立的八字就比他好很多可是一百年以後我們忘掉說誰誰誰當過大法官可是Bork這個字還留在英文的字典裡面謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4461.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4480.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
好,謝謝黃國中律師寶貴的意見,接下來我們請胡柏彥教授,請表達寶貴意見院長、各位委員、在座各位女士先生、各位先進大家好,我是東吳大學胡柏彥非常榮幸來參加這樣的憲法的時刻,我們終於又有可能再出現大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4481.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4496.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那我們到底要需要一個怎麼樣的憲法法庭我們其實現在這個制度大家都知道是憲法訴訟新制我們從111年實施到現在已經是三年的期限了那我們從原來單純的解釋變成法院的裁判 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4496.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4522.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那從以前個案的解釋變成個案的審判這其實是非常距離非常大的第二個部分是其實我們為了讓這個制度可以擴大的被適用其實我們在當初也調整了所謂表決額度的問題而這次也是成為我們的爭議所在但是呢我們是希望說這個制度被大家適用我們來看我們這三年來當中而言扣除去年每年呢所做成的憲法法院判決是20個 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4524.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4545.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那如果這個數字放在大官解釋時代最後一年是14個解釋前一年是11個解釋也就是我們這樣子增加6個增加9個到底有沒有讓這個制度變得更好發揮更大的功能呢我們還可以看另外一個數字來看100年到110年呢總共的大官的申請案件是5972件 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4548.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4569.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
而這個數字其實當然到憲法訴訟新制由於制度的銜接所以它大量爆發所以制度變多1到14年的5月為止憲法訴訟新制所受理的案件是7820件我們大法官過去非常有效率的終結了7442件perfect很好但是大部分都不受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4570.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4588.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們以113年為例,113年受理案件是1231件做成不受理1031件,那做成判決多少件?11件至少到10月為止,我們做成的是11件判決總共處理的申請案件多少件呢?連同兵案處理的案件是126件 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4592.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4610.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們在講大官那時候常不受理那不受理的制度基本上來講基於是九成到了憲法法庭時代變成八成多我不知道這是進步嗎我不知道這個進步有沒有福音說我們當年要創造憲法訴訟這個制度的要求以前我們常常講 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4611.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4621.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
行政法院是駁回法院我記得吳東都院長上任的時候就說其實我們在努力之下已經慢慢解決這個問題因為我們至少比德國的撤銷率還好 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4622.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4641.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那我們就必須要講如果行政法院擺脫了駁回法院的這頭銜的話那這頭銜應該就要送給憲法法庭了因為憲法法庭基本上來講就專門在駁回大家的所以我要強調一件事情沒有大法官很糟糕但有了大法官沒有辦法發揮功能這是更糟糕的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4642.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4666.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
而我們近期爭議的這個有關表決額度這件事情確實是一個大問題為什麼因為憲法法庭是一個解決憲政爭議的部分那我們用法庭的方式來解決大家其實行政部門跟立法部門棘手的政治問題這又有一個困境所以他的人數不足就會造成他的決定性一定會被質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4667.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4693.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
因為連法院組織法都規定要有一定的額度了就大法官當中的人說我們只有一部分的人來開會這樣的話外面的民眾一定會懷疑說你們講的話算不算數這件事情我們這次有機會把整個正當性的部分來補足這是一個很重要的一件事情但是我們既然要以司法的方式來進行一個類似政治部門的工作我們檢選大法官要有怎麼樣的檢選方式基本上來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4694.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4717.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
大官要有憲政意識所以審查政治立場其實是可以理解的從美國到德國基本上來講我想每個被審查人都會被詢問政治立場只是在政治立場的部分跟憲法法庭現在目前要做的大眾的判決其實是有距離的因為基本權保障我們剛剛講人民申請案件其實才是主要的重點所在 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4718.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4731.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以有時候如果我們用單一的一些立場例如我們剛剛先進提到的實行支持與否或甚或蔡總統論文當中有沒有問題與否來作為說這個大人到底適不適當有時候就會過於速斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4733.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4757.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
但我們要看過去的是說這個人到底有沒有憲法上的知識這也是很重要的一件事情為什麼 因為現在大法官常常被批評我們常常用利搞的方式剛剛有先進的方提到說最高法院常常用利搞的方式不受理大法官也常常用利搞的方式說你這個是主觀的陳述啊也沒有跟我講說這有什麼基本權的重要性我常常每次看文章都不受理我就說我真的覺得大法官的素養是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4759.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4780.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
但憲法的意思不代表說你一定要鑽研憲法不然就好像說不是公法學者就不是黨其實是在過往工作當中對於憲法到底有沒有一定的敏感度也不限於學者因為憲法法庭跟國會一樣也要有一個多元性的可能性存在所以來自實務界的法官檢察官甚至律師都是可能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4780.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4797.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那這次除了學者有法官檢察官這個多樣性其實是呈現的當大家疑惑一件事情是我們這次提名了有檢察官出身的人來擔任院長這是很特別的確實非常特別但是過去律師可以當院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4799.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4819.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
學者可以當院長政治人物可以當院長我們怎麼樣去回應一件事情檢察官不能當院長只要他符合資格這件事情因為任何人不管他此前的工作是學者檢察官或者是法官或律師去到了司法院之後他的身份就應該是轉化回大法官或者院長或者副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4820.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4846.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那院長呢其實除了司法解釋之外另外一個部分就是我們剛剛一直提到的司法行政的部分那副院長的被提名人其實在過去擔任廳長的部分工作其實有目共睹這個大家都可以理解而這次院長提名人其實跟之前檢方出身的大官不太一樣的是基本上來講他長期以來都在做實務工作也就是他沒有檢察所長 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4846.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4854.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
過去王二熊、林錫耀、吳承煥等大官都有檢查所長的經驗但是現在的蔡秋名被提名人其實是沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4854.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4877.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
但是這個特別是我認為一個事務工作者就不要脫離事務太久就像學者要常常念書一樣不過現行剛剛大家都提到司法過勞問題非常嚴重而這個嚴重呢其實整體的司法體系從法官到法警從法院到檢察署從警調到監所每個人都負擔過重或者甚至說整個公務機關包含立法院大家都是負擔過重的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4879.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4902.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
這個部分其實應該要審查的是我們對於院長副院長的提名有沒有辦法提出一個司法行政改革的方向否則我們幾百萬件的訴訟當中就讓大家整個過勞清醒沒辦法解決實際上來講其實基層提出很多建議過民事訴訟上面來講剛好先進提到其實很多當事人因為是素人不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4902.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4927.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
但是我們藉由格式的統一或者是裁判費繳納不要再命補證這件事情是不是能節省法官一點時間甚至有必要還是要研議一件事情擴大律師強制代理的範圍這也是很重要的而刑事訴訟上面來講告訴乃論的範圍可以再討論而獨任制的部分可應該擴大避免不必要人力的參與而另外一個考量的點就是資訊的整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4927.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4951.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
不然法官坐在那邊看說這個人到底有沒有前科或者是這些案件有沒有被其他法院起訴基本上來講這就是一個困難的事情而這個事情其實是有必要的而這次提名剛剛如同憲進有提到兼具性別平等我們副院長提名人以及另外兩位法官檢察官同屬優秀女性工作者我們女性的法律工作者在過往或是現在不勝 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4952.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4971.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
友善的工作環境之下力求各方面平衡這是很不容易的我們同樣的在立法院我們也看到非常多的立法委員其實要平衡家庭跟生活之間其實很困難院長跑去參加兒子的畢業典禮卻沒有辦法跟其他的家長一樣帶著子女然後出去玩 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4972.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5001.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
然後呢因為被大家盯著一定要回來主持會議我想這個困難性在每個工作的人都呈現而這個對女性工作者其實是一個更嚴苛的挑戰而這些人在這邊做了這樣的平衡我覺得這是一個不容易的事情而幾位的工法學者我都非常的熟悉這必須要像陳志強教授其實基本權的核心理論大概很多學生都會念那蕭文森老師呢行政管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5002.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5028.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
或者是地方自治當中的討論其實也是國內非常重要的學者那這個最年輕的詹老師其實他的經濟行政或者公私協力制度其實都在國內非常重要而對我個人來講他們在學術以及對學生的態度也都是我長期以來學習的對象其實憲法法庭我們要講的是獨同剛剛所說的是判決說理不足的問題尤其 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5029.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5053.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
尤其在不受理的部分有如立稿什麼方式就說人家這個過於主觀的描述基本上來講其實都讓這個制度沒有辦法發揮這樣的功能那未來如果JP大法官JP提名人有幸成為大法官應該要做的也可以要做的就是強化這個部分因為憲法法庭既然是最後一審的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5054.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5070.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
就必須要以判決呈現他的公信力否則他家的狀況就會繼續的混亂下去而最後我們懇請立法院委員們不要放棄創造歷史的機會我們檢選的不是偉大人格者而是適當的憲法法庭法官謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5072.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5091.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
好 謝謝胡教授寶貴的意見 謝謝您接下來我們請舒子喬 蘇教授寶貴的意見請院長 各位委員先進還有在座各位媒體朋友 大家好本來作為一個關注憲政運作的一個憲政的研究者 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5092.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5118.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
非常榮幸有機會出席今天的公聽會就立法院行使司法院正副院長還有大法官同意權的審查提供我個人的觀察跟建議事實上我們大法官目前的任命制度在我們目前的憲法規定之下由於我們憲法規定說總統就是我們憲法規定因為大法官是不分屆次 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5120.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5141.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
不分各界的屆次,任期個別計算這樣的規定所以他這樣的制度用意其實要使大法官的成員結構新舊混合,任期交錯一方面也要透過這樣的制度去避免我們每四年一任的總統壟斷大法官所有大法官的提名權讓每四年一任總統都有提名大法官這樣的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5142.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5161.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
不過我們在這樣的制度之下也必然會出現一個現象就是說當總統連任或者是說當一個在我們台灣藍綠的政黨當有一方政黨他的執政超過八年的情況之下那這個制度設計就會必然造成大法官是同樣同屬一個總統或同屬某個政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5163.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5181.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
總統提名的這樣一個現象那我想這個是制度必然的結果啦那這個制度本身事實上是值得去去這個斟酌跟改善的不過這是憲法層次的這個憲法規範的問題那我只把這個制度背景先提出來那我這邊要進一步強調就是說在我們現在目前這樣的制度之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5182.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5202.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
由於我們過去這個2008年到2024年過去的16 更早之前過去的16年之間由於這個總統跟立法院多數都是一致的所以過去大法官幾乎總統提名的立法院都會全數通過不要說幾乎啦 就是全數通過啦所以過去的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5203.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5224.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
常常會被批評或說被質疑我想這有時候對大法官也真的不盡公平就是說把總統提名的大法官就被認為是藍色大法官這是一個貼標籤的這樣的一個公平的這樣的一個說法那如果是蔡總統提名的就會把她指稱是綠色大法官那這是我們過去制度上設計上造成的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5226.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5253.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那可能我覺得就是從去年開始因為我們現在新的國會在這一年上任之後由於草小野大這樣的格局形成總統跟國會多數不一致的這樣的一個格局現象之下事實上總統提名大法官要經由立法院的多數陣營來行使同意權通過那在這樣的權力分享的制度設立之下我覺得反而可以讓目前的大法官有機會更避免被貼上藍綠的標籤 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5255.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5281.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
也就是說如果我們現在的大法官能夠被同意上任的話這個大法官是由一個綠營的總統提名的可是又是由一個不是屬於綠營的立法院多數所同意的那事實上代表說我們這個大法官其實他的上任的行李職員正當性其實更足夠的所以我反而覺得在這樣的情況之下當然有人會擔心這樣的一個憲政僵局只是說我覺得大法官如果有在這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5282.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5293.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
在這樣的一個制度結構之下去上任的話能夠同意被上任的話我覺得反而是可以更強化大法官的這個本身的這個制度上的這個他本身的正當性 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5295.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5314.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那這裡我想要強調一個我比較關注的一個問題就是說當行政部門跟立法部門出現政治爭議的時候但這政治爭議有可能是政策爭議也有可能是一些憲政爭議因為我們過去這一年看到很多這樣的爭執 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5318.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5331.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
就是說當出現這樣的爭議的時候政治部門出現政治爭議的時候是否都適合由憲法法庭來憲法法庭的大法官來解決那這個部分我覺得是一個很值得去思考的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5333.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5352.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
在學說上跟實務上就是說這部分關於這個問題其實有兩種觀點因為在美國實務運作上會強調所謂的一個政治問題原則所謂政治問題原則就是政治問題不審查的原則不處理的原則那這樣的一個立場其實強調司法自治我講司法自治是指司法自我節制的這樣的一個行與執權的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5355.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5378.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
可是有另外一種立場,這可能在台灣過去大法官實務運作上是更主流的看法或更主流的運作的那種現象,就是司法積極主義司法積極主義的觀點,在這樣的立場是更強調說其實只要行政立法的爭議是具有憲法上的一個有關的話其實司法就要去勇於的介入,憲法法庭就要去介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5380.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5392.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這問題其實換個比較學術的角度去講就是說到底行政跟立法部門的政治爭議是否就具有可司法性可裁判性我覺得這個議題是很值得去關注的 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5395.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5410.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我覺得這個議題就是說如果從國際的一個比較角度來看我想最近大家可能有看到一個就是這兩天的一個新聞事件就是泰國的憲法法庭的一個將這個總理給停職了 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5413.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5428.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
當然我們不予以對外國的政治對態度的評價不過我這邊要從一個案例來提醒就是說因為在泰國一般會認為說憲法法庭因為它介入政治真理的力道是很強的那這些司法介入的現象其實在表面上 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5429.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5452.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
好像是維護了憲政秩序其實反而是傷害了泰國的民主政治以及憲法法庭本身的司法的威信所以說憲法解釋機關的介入如果它缺乏超越黨派的政治中立這樣的精神的時候其實是有可能會去削弱民主的 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5454.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5479.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
而且也會消耗司法自己本身的司法在民眾的信賴度所以我覺得就是說關於這個剛剛我說的這個問題其實我覺得可以作為這個接下來大法官在進行審查的時候的一個可以詢問大法官提名人對這個議題的一個基本的立場也就是說立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5481.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5503.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
應該特別去關注被提名人對於這個政治爭議處理的角色他們在行使職權的時候 現任政治爭議的處理角色是怎麼理解的是否能夠在尊重司法過程自主性的同時也能夠同時扮演現任秩序的負責這樣的角色我想這個之間的拿捏跟界限我覺得是重要的我覺得這個議題實際上是很 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5506.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5531.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
就是關於大法官提名人對這個問題的理解我覺得這部分對這個議題的看法是很值得去關注的另外我還有一點時間我還可以進一步在做一些我這邊關於這個問題的提醒跟觀察就是我們大法官目前的成員結構其實剛剛前幾位專家寫者所提到的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5535.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5560.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我們這一次提名的總統提名七位大法官有三位學者有兩位法官有兩位是法官出身的一個是民事背景的一個是刑事背景的那有兩位檢察官那如果再加上目前已經在任大法官其實會有就是這四五個大法官裡面但我們這邊是預設說如果就是全部大法官都同意可以上任的話結果在整個結構裡面那這四五位大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5562.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5583.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
會有六位學者五位法官三位檢察官跟一位律師這個其實整個結構看起來是相當是蠻多元的是值得肯定的那就是說剛剛陳儒前面幾位先進有提到就是說其實在性別比例上會有七位的女性大法官那這個比例我覺得也是過去很難得一些就是說這麼平衡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5584.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5598.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那這也是一個我覺得值得去肯定的一個部分不過我這邊想要提醒就是說在我們看到的這個大法官的成員結構裡面有一個現象就是說我們的六位學者裡面六位的學者裡面其實有五位 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5599.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5619 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
有五位是留德的都是德國的背景的這個我想就是說我們的大歐陸法系的這個我們做一個歐陸法系國家那個留德的學者有法律學法學學者比較多這無可厚非可是沒有法沒有美國的留學的背景或者其他學國家的學者我覺得這部分我覺得還是值得再去思考一下這樣的結構 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5621.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5644.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
是否是會過度偏頗的啦因為過去的大法官的學者出身還是都會有美國出身或者是其他國家出身特別是美國啦美國的因為我覺得美國留學背景的專家學者還是有一定的在整個大法官的審查過程中還是能夠提供一定的相當程度的意見的因為我剛剛提到譬如說政治問題的那個不審查不處理的原則其實就是來自美國實務嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5646.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5660.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那如果說未來的大法官在學界尤其在公法的領域裡面沒有這方面的學者的話那是不是會太過偏頗特定的一種國家的學說或是學說的實務立場那我覺得這部分是可以值得去關注的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5662.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5690.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那最後我如果還有一點時間時間不多就是說我覺得我也呼應剛剛前面專家學者所提到就是說司法院政務院長兼大法官的審查跟其他大法官的審查應該要有一個不同的審查標準因為司法院政務院長是要領導整個的他就是領導整個司法體系的法院體系而且他具有這個司法行政監督這樣的作用所以我覺得他這部分其實應該有一個另外一個審查標準那以上的意見這個請各位指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5692.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5714.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
謝謝蘇紫橋教授寶貴的意見 謝謝接下來我們請最後一位我們林玉順李教授請表達寶貴的意見謝謝院長以及在場各位先進記者媒體朋友以及我們一起來參加審查的委員大家早安大家好我是警察大學的老師林玉順那真的很高興可以來參加這樣的一個盛會 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5716.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5740.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我覺得司法這個問題其實大家都知道是我們最後防線它也是我們人民或是民眾的一個最後救贖所以它真的很重要再來我是覺得司法它本身是解決內部的問題尤其在民主、法治這多元的一個過程當中它對於紛爭解決它是相當重要的一個機制而且是一個國際競爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5742.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5770.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那這一次提名的大瓦官呢我覺得都是相當敬重那我們如果在選擇過程在選任的過程當中沒有給他過多沒有認真的審查的話那我覺得可能就是對於我們司法或對於這些大家敬重的學者專家的一種欺負那我這邊的一個最大的感想就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5772.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5776.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我們先看看有什麼東西可以幫我們去做這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5784.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5811.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我們學習一下就是現在這個司法它是一個國際競爭那國際競爭有什麼指標我這邊有個書面資料大家可以參考看看就是說在2023年一個全國性的評比制度世界正義計畫它是用一個標準的方法一個自私的方法在收集資料的過程評比140個國家地區它發表一個Rule of Law Index它在衡量各國的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5812.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5834.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
法治的實際運作過程當中我們看我們同樣同屬我們東亞國家的日本他全球排名第8然後他亞洲排名在15個國家排名第2那韓國他全球排名第16那他的區域排名是第5然後再來就是說在這個另外一個統計在 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5839.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5859.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
針對各國人民對司法的信任度Global Note這個組織統計在日本司法信任度是76%到80%位居全球第十韓國位居全球第十四 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5860.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5889.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
也就是我覺得我們在做這樣的一個司法的大法官的審查過程當中我們一想就是我們大法官代表台灣的司法那他司法這個選裁過程或他所展現的一個司法的一個大法官憲法判決的一個內涵或他對人民的人權的一個保障或意識的形態他是有一個國際競爭的一個效果所以我是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5890.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5914.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們如果去嘗試的去了解一下其他國家先進國家他對於司法的一個評比或他們的一個司改的政策或是司法運作的狀態然後他們的經驗做這個參考的話我相信對我們內部的一個司法的一個的完善性會有更大的一個幫忙所以我這邊有幾個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5919.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5938.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
就像我們常常聽到像一個棒球選手要退休一樣那我們要對他最大的敬重就在球場上直球對決同樣的我們立法院對於司法院的最高大法官的選才過程當中我認為應該是要有一個實質的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5945.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5973.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那我覺得以下的問題我們吸取國外先進國家的經驗或是我們近年日韓的相關的一個實務的操作經驗或他們司法的狀況我覺得以下五個問題是值得我們在未來在立法院院會審查過程當中要請教一下我們這些被提名的人包括院長、副院長或大法官的相關的政策或是實際案件的一個訴訟裁判的一個判斷者 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5975.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5983.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
第一個我們看一下日韓在進入21世紀之後很大的司法改革就是人民差異審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5984.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6005.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那這個人民差異審判的過程當中他們認為這是一個國民主權司法民主的一個最主要的事件那這個也是剛有提到就是它是國際競爭很重要的一個評比我們看一下我們最近常常評價這個法治先進國家我們看到G7我們可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6006.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6024.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
包括美國加拿大英國他才陪審可是相對的法國德國義大利日本他們才參審那我們台灣終於在2020年通過立法然後2023年開始正式實施裁判員制度可是我們發現我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6027.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6049.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
為了要實踐所謂的我們憲法所保障的國民主權或是要實踐所謂司法民主我們大會周章大家可以回顧一下我們的人民操縱制度這國民法官經歷了十幾年的功夫才成立可是我們2023年上路之後我們去看一下統計數字在2012年2013年 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6054.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6073.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我們國民法官適用案件有285件可是我們卻看到了有111件被申請不適用然後有73件真的裁定了不適用也就是說我們大概這個適用案件有 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6075.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6089.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
有百分之六十五的申請合格率就是說我們大概有三分之一到四分之一的案件他是沒有去試應該要原本要試用國民法官的一個審理結果沒有試用 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6090.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6117.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
可是我們剛才提到就是說我們希望落實司法民主、國民主權希望人民一起來陪著我們看一個案件的真假來去做一個正確的刑法的使用可是我們看到就是我們某種程度就是排除使用某種沒說的國民主權沒說的一個司法民主的實踐那我們看一下我們格領的日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6118.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6133.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
他們有關於這個類似的案件他們一年大概審1000件可是他們駁回的是個位數而且他們的理由是為了保障這些參與的國民法官的人身安全不會像我們動不動就是用 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6134.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6153.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
案件複雜或所謂的相關的隱私可是這個不是我們要去落實保障的一個他們國民實踐國民主權的時候參加國民法官來實踐施反民主的時候我們對他應該有保障嗎可是我們反過來就是很輕易的就去排除適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6154.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6181.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
第二個我覺得要去請教我們未來這些大法官的人選的第二個問題就是我們真的有如何去落實所謂的人民的司法參與或是所謂的國民主權的行使因為我們知道去年一個最爭議的案件是113年憲判第8號判決我們要求科取死刑的判決要經過各級法院的法官的一致決 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6182.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6211.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
可是我們知道國民法官的第一條剛才各位提到強調就是要彰顯國民主權然後那第91條也規定你上級審要去妥適審理的審查權要尊重一審國民法官所做的判決這樣的一個制度宗旨所以我們可以想見今天如果第一審的法官國民參與的審判當中落判了死刑那二審職業法官你怎麼去尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6212.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6235.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
一審人民參與的這樣的一個死刑判決呢我想未來大法官一定要去面對這個問題也就是說所謂的憲判的第八號的一字決跟人民國民國民法官參與的判決如果衝突的話你要怎麼做一個決定然後第二個就是我們知道2017年這個司改國司會對被害人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6236.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6253.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
程序參加備案的保障是特別關注的一個主要議題我們這邊也提到就是說因為備案的一個保障我們有輸送參與可是我們發現現在的輸送參與其實你這邊有相關的圖表可以看 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6254.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6282.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我們輸入參與只是讓他發表意見可是相對日本或德國他們的被害人輸入參與他可以去結論證人或是被告我相信他參與的程度不一樣我們說要保障人民的司法參與可是在這被害人保障上我們要輸入一解第三個所謂的比喻審判的問題我們現在可以看到最近的很多一些政治人物的牽涉案件我們常常看到就是一直在 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6283.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6309.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
做筆錄的一個徵訊筆錄一個檢討或是一個追究可是這個之前許仲偉大人就提到啊他那時候前大人然後再提到就是說我們的國民法官的一個制度的引進最主要就是才其中一本主義也就是我們希望是看到是眼前的是證人被告怎麼講而不是看檢察官的筆錄或警察的筆錄他怎麼說所以我是覺得這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6311.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6333.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
在日本的看法就是這種比喻審判就是一個一個所謂的一個讓人絕望讓人覺得這個是是完全都是像是瞎子摸象在去做判決的然後最後一點我講在這段分享再佔兩分鐘時間就是司法意願化的問題不管是2017年中 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6335.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6350.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
參議院總統主持的司改國事會議或是1999年李登恩總統所主持的全國司改會議都強調要司法一元化就是司法院負責審判甚至我們2011年的大法官530號解釋也強調希望在2011年 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6355.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6366.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
2001年的2年後2003年可以達到司法預言化可是到現在一直沒有辦法也就是說我們不管是大法官的憲法判決或是我們司法政策或是我們最高領導人的對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6368.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6387.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
對於民眾的承諾到現在還沒辦法解決最後有一點要跟大家分享就是我們看隔壁的韓國幾乎每任的總統卸任之後都射送甚至入獄的我覺得一個最大的問題出在所謂的我稱為它是司法的韓國病也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6390.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6412.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
檢察官的權限剛剛前面幾位先進也提到我們現在檢察官的一個過勞其實過勞背後就是他的權責分配不均我覺得很重要就是檢警是不是把一些偵查權限或是讓檢察官專門認真的在法庭上認真的去訴訟追訴我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6415.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6438.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
偵查 起訴 審判這個過程我們司法的弊病要從上游去解決而不是只是就是一直加工作讓大家都過了最後我是覺得司改 司法這個政策是我們最後它也代表一個社會最後良心司法反映出來就是一個社會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6439.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6462.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
對於人權對於一個文化或是對一個我們對於大家最底層的人或是大家最討厭的人怎麼去都要做個對待所以我覺得我們在這個大法官審查過程當中幾個剛才跟大家報了幾個問題要好好的去問這些大法官他的價值他的看法 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6463.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6480.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
好,非常感謝林益生教授您的寶貴發言,非常感謝那跟各位報告一下我們現在學者專家的發言已經發言完畢我們休息十分鐘,讓大家進一點咖啡一點點心,十分鐘之後我們進行審查小組委員的詢問,現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7082.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7106.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
好謝謝各位審查小組委員各位學者專家接下來我們請審查小組委員來進行詢問每一位十分鐘時間首先我們請吳宗憲委員請詢問劉書斌委員請準備謝謝主席及在場的各位先進發言一開始我想先請問大家總統他如果提名的是不中立的人擔任大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7108.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7131.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
甚至是院長那掌管所有的法官行政事務又沒有人把關的話那我們很難以想像明年的四月總統他所提名的檢察總長會是什麼樣的人選更何況賴總統曾經公開的說中華民國憲法是災難那我們也要了解一下他到底是提名哪些人來守護他口中的災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7132.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7158.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
所以這個我們必須要做嚴格的把關這是我首先先論述這個部分當然我們對於所有的擔任大法官的這些候選人以及將來可能擔任首長院長副首長等等的人選我們對他都有更多的期許存在我想回過頭我們去看看過去在民國84年的時候也就是30年前當時的檢察官其實是可以自己決定要不要羈押的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7159.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7174.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
在釋憲的過程中當時的法務部也是說如果檢察官有羈押權沒有違憲因為檢察官在當時地檢署也被認為是法院的一個延伸但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7175.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7204.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這樣的論述被當年的大法官用釋制392號來宣告羈押權應該由獨立審判的法官來決定那隔沒有幾年集會遊行法讓主管機關可以事前僅憑可能會發生危險就可以否決掉這個集會遊行的申請那因為有民眾申請釋憲那當時的行政院也是主張說這個集會遊行活動太容易感染而且不可控所以對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7205.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7227.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那治安可能會發生一些潛在的影響所以需要事前的限制而且這個沒有違憲那當時的大法官也做出了445號宣告來說這個集會遊行限制人民的言論自由跟集會遊行自由這種限制是違憲的所以我們回過頭去看當時的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7227.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7247.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
不管是施啟陽或翁岳昇、吳庚、王哲健這些人我們都是念他的書長大的這些人是多麼勇於對抗當時的執政黨當時的權貴但是呢我們現在還有沒有這樣子這麼願意堅守憲法制度的大法官這是我們要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7247.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7262.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
要去重視的那當年我們存下來對於憲法對於司法威信的這些老本是不是已經漸漸的都流失掉更何況過去民進黨在野的時候曾經說如果立法院沒有調查權就像沒有牙齒的老虎 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7263.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7286.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
結果這段時間我們發現了113年憲判9號大法官大開民主的倒車他完全忽視4至585號已經宣示立法院有調查權而且要求權力的關鍵是相互的制衡就憲判9完全不談這個然後甚至他把責任政治這四個字無限上綱到行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7287.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7315.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
行政院的官員對於立法院監督都可以公然的說謊給假資料都不用負責那這個就是我們宣判就給大家的好所以呢大法官對於這些政治議題啊在過往他是有維持一定的距離他不去觸碰政治議題但是在現在我們看到的就是執政黨拼命的濫用大法官來去解決他的政治問題那我們是不是整個走回老路了走回以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7316.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7334.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
然後走回威權的時代我們用民主來包裝獨裁然後把司法變成側翼把行政變成獨裁我們變成這樣了嗎我想這段時間我們看到的就執政黨不停的走複製走憲法判決走暫時處分把大法官拉進來當打手 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7336.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7357.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
甚至在2月上旬我們司法院的代理院長謝明陽大法官還跑去總統府會商國政賴總統似乎把大法官當成是自己的幕僚團隊在使用完全不顧外界的觀感完全忘記了大法官應該超然的中立所以我們今天我們希望的人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7358.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7376.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
是希望他能夠像這一女神一樣不帶偏見的解釋憲法必須蒙上雙眼持平的看待每一個憲法的問題但是我們有沒有辦法得到這樣子的人選這才是我們所重的核心過去我們看到賴總統提名姚立民大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7377.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7395.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那這時候是讓我們覺得你到底要讓大法官多沾染政治色彩你才開心這是我們所在乎的那這一次當然司法院院長的提名人是我們的檢察官前輩蔡秋明先生過往他對我也非常非常多的照顧我很感謝他 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7397.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7413.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
這也是司法院第一次在憲政史上首次提名檢察官出身的也許這個是對於我們檢察界的一種肯定但是我想核心的問題還是了解他是不是擔任而不是他是否出身檢察官體系因為過往也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7413.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7429.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
單純是律師背景的人擔任司法院院長所以我想說既然是一個院長的身份我想還是要請問他的是他對於司法改革的期望以及具體的作為為何再來外界現在對於司法尤其是刑事案件的 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7430.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7451.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
偵查審判上面民眾有極度的不信任司法雙標這個問題要怎麼去改善還有他擔任下法庭的審判長要怎麼樣維持中立不影響其他獨立審判的大法官以及如何勇於跟現在當權者對抗這個是我對他請教對這位大前輩以及對我照顧很多的大前輩的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7454.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7472.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我們看現在現任的代理院長他甚至曾經公開說立法院三讀通過的限訴法他感覺到很遺憾甚至把自己化身成民進黨的那個申請方民進黨的律師這個都是很莫名其妙大法官什麼時候變成是執政黨的律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7474.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7490.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
甚至也甘願作為執政黨的政治幕僚我想這個都不是我們對於大法官的期許再來我想政府他一直希望阻斷國會以及司法對於這個國家運作的監督其實這個最簡單的方式就是先想辦法去抹黑在野黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7491.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7508.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那這段時間行政權利用政府網頁散佈錯誤的資訊政務官下鄉大量的宣講無所不用其極的把政黨之間本該的良性競爭最後變成用國家的資源來攻擊在野黨我們看我們的賴總統自稱為憲法的守護者 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7511.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7534.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
又稱憲法是災難但是呢他最近的所謂的團結史講就像分裂史講一樣他從第一講的長毛像第二講的雜質說第三講的不是表決多數就是贏到第四講甚至用假數據來造謠我真的看不出來這是憲法守護者或是一個總統高度者該有的一個氣度甚至我一直說 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7536.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7542.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
古代的皇帝或現在的總統他們所說的每一句話公開的言論要載入史冊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7543.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7568.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這樣的狀況下為什麼不重視自己所講出來的每一句話以及每一個數據呢甚至你該團結的是國家而不是分裂國家所以我們也是期許作為法治最後一道守護者的大法官能夠持平的在看待我們憲法制度而不是陪著執政者在那邊玩弄國家的憲法制度我想立法院已經是國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7568.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7595.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
中央唯一的民選機關我們代表的是民意那民主國家的立法院本來就是透過這些代議事來表達多數民意的想法所以對於民意所多數覺得法律案預算案其實政府在依法行政這個都是民主國家該有的樣貌但是我們現在在台灣卻變得不一樣甚至大法官還跳進來幫著執政黨在打壓在野黨這個都 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7597.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7615.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這個都不是一個大法官該有的樣子我想這段時間執政黨又搞出獨步全球世界歷史上從來沒有的無差別式的大罷免那憲法法庭在面對這麼多問題的時候他有沒有這個勇氣跳出來說真話 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7617.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7638.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那憲法法庭在遇到各院紀之間的紛爭的時候他有沒有這個勇氣去告訴總統你要先行使院紀調解權而不是一概受理而不是直接跳出來直接暫時凍結任何對執政黨可能不利的法案甚至更讓判決導致行政權無限的擴張這個都是我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7639.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7655.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
了解大法官到底適不適任大法官知不知道自己在做什麼那大法官雖然有告訴我們機關之間要彼此尊重但是呢大法官是不是忘記了忘記看到了行政權對立法權如此的不尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7656.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7672.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那當你說各權之間要彼此尊重的時候你卻忘了去看到執政者所掌握的行政權如此不尊重立法權如此不尊重民意大法官們你們看到了嗎我想立法委員之所以被稱呼為民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7672.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7691.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這就是我們代表的是民意 請記得古人說的民為貴 社稷次之 軍為勤 最重要的是人民所以我審查大法官 我的重點不是在乎他對於公共政策議題跟我是不是一樣我在乎的一定是 他知不知道大法官該做什麼 以及能做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7691.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7701.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
而不要去侵害其他權限不要自己當作自己是立法權在創設法律否則人民會不知何去何從謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7708.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7722.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
好 謝謝主席那本席現在有兩個提問第一個是少數總統如果未在提名大法官前呢向立法院徵詢那這對大法官的這個順利產出有什麼樣的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7723.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7732.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
第二個問題是大法官他作為憲法的守護者請問學者專家們您認為如果要選擇一個最重要的條件的話那會是什麼那針對這個問題呢剛才那個兩個提問我其實有兩個異常在這邊說明第一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7745.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7752.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
很遺憾大法官的人事同意權這麼重要的案子總統並沒有正視到國會的多數會在提名前徵詢到政黨的各意見那不利於這樣的一個通過第二個被提名人他們都有一定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7760.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7790.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
法學素養但通過的關鍵是只有司法獨立的堅持才能夠真正的捍衛權利分立人權保障那我以下就深邃這兩個立場來做說明本席在還沒有擔任立法委員時曾在去年的議場座談會當中指出立法院三黨不過半的這個時執政的民進黨在國會他只有我再看一下我這邊PPT他只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7791.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7810.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
五十一席大家可以看一下這只有五十一席那賴整統和政府呢將會受到更多的這個監督因此呢政府不應該沿襲他過去的這完全執政的邏輯來施政而應該更頻繁的來進行政黨溝通協調那大法官呢仍是一個總統跟國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7812.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7836.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
合作完成的這個行為要經過這兩個憲政機關背後民意的一個肯認絕非只是說核對法定資格而已決策點是被提名人能否同時被總統跟立法院多數接受重點是多數接受信任其能夠在憲政正義當中扮演公平裁判的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7838.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7851.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
總統跟國會抗衡又合作的制度是辦總統制國會精神的辦總統制憲法精神的重點重大的議案在國會三黨不過半的一個情勢之下應該事前的應該事前的要做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7858.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7880.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
應該在三黨不斷的情勢下應該事先的公開徵詢各政黨的意見了再提案但賴總統在三月底提出大法官的名單前並未徵詢在野黨的意見現在是七月了那國會就會排案了嚴格來審查總統呢實際上他是忽略了他憲政的角色這並非是最佳最尊重國會的這樣的一個做法那因此呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7882.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7897.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
本席在這邊要特別呼籲由於立法院已經在議事處已經匯集了三檔提出的這個大法官的問卷在上週六月24號都已經寄出了被提名人對立法院的回應具備的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7899.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7919.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
事後補救的這樣一個效益因此民眾黨特別要呼籲請被提名人儘速詳實的來回答讓立法院在7月9號下周三開始詢答程序之前能夠有完整的資訊然後儘速的亡羊補牢顯示對立法院的尊重這才是正途 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7921.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7945.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那我們繼續再往下看6月29號的時候賴總統在團結時講第三講裡面講到的憲政體制花了很多的篇幅在講歷次修憲還有在五院等的憲法機關更不斷的去合理化他上任以來濫用復議權然後對抗蔡英文這個情形但是賴總統請你要注意過去民進黨的很多的前輩 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7947.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7972.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
在許信良、黃信介、黃黃雄他們在黨內曾經推動並通過了民主大憲章它所蘊含的一個精神是要求總統要正視國會的多數而這個過程曾經也落實在第四次的修憲過程和內容當中既然現在民進黨做不到而且不能夠真誠地去做事前的溝通民眾黨絕對會嚴審大法官審好審滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7976.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7998.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那我們現在看到的另外第二個主題是外界呢曾戲稱本黨在去年底創下劉靜儀基準大白話一句呢 只要對當選者有說不的勇氣呢民眾黨就會支持本席就以下三個事例來做觀察被提名人是否能在關鍵的時刻說不 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7999.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8018.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
第一件事情呢是被提名人陳慈揚來說大家都知道他在106年到去年8月的時候擔任考試委員代表蔡英文總統推動年金改革卸任的前夕當時的考試委員們竟然荒腔走板的包括陳慈揚呢他支持了賴總統的對抗國會多數的這個路線 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8025.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8045.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那這個時候他修改了考試院的會議規則以處理緊急事項為由讓無需經國會同意的考權三長就能代替考試委員召集並主持院會這架空了立法院的人事同意權也讓第十二屆考試委員黃景堂投書批判認為有違憲之餘萬萬不可 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8049.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8072.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
後來雖然第十四屆的考試委員人事案同意案通過了也完成了院會呢追認了之前的這樣的會議然而陳慈陽先生在院會通過修法時沒有出現阻擋這破壞憲政秩序的相關作為如今又獲得大法官提名國人如何能夠期待他在關鍵時刻面對權勢時能夠捍衛憲政體制呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8076.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8094.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
第二個案例以立法院的職權來說被提名人的蕭文森教授是國內針對此議題有深入研究的學者在他的著作裡面立法委員的質詢權對於行政院的答覆一物一文 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8095.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8122.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
還有科長咱們議會間的論文當中都詳加論述了質詢的答覆義務甚至以德國法為例指出個別的國會議員針對這種情形他都可以向憲法法院提出訴訟該文還指出在我國呢反而不一樣的那時大法官的案件審理法沒有這樣的一個救濟途徑使立法院的質詢權監督制衡功能無法發揮 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8124.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8150.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
相較之下在113年的憲判自9號裡面甚至發明出質詢權是政治義務大家可以看到質詢權是政治義務不能轉換成法律義務的這個見解這與蕭教授的見解呢就完全的不同是南援北測的由此可以見到蕭教授應該是會認同官員答覆質詢的義務可以修法來加以強制 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8151.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8171.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
然而這樣捍衛憲法本色的見解 卻要面臨憲法判決多數意見的否定可見 見解能不能落實呢 挑戰不小那我們在講的更重要的是另外一個許中立大法官的案例可以看出來 憲法見解落實在實務上面的一個困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8173.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8194.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
根據憲法第77條規定若官學說有著憲法懲戒一元化的主張過去許宗麗大法官就這樣主張她在44583號的不同意見書裡面明擺指出也可知道大法官系以維穩的方式指出憲法懲戒呢之外同時存在著考積懲處的雙軌制但是這是違憲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8199.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8222.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
結果111憲判第10號的判決重新面對這個憲法的問題這時許忠麗已經是司法院長了竟以司法院一指公告迴避這個問題判決結果也180度大轉彎直說憲法上沒有懲戒議員化這個事情本席並非要再論斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8224.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8247.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
懲戒一元化的對錯而是要透過這個例子指出93年的許仲利大法官獨排眾議支持懲戒一元化但到了111年的許仲利大法官院長他卻迴避了審理最終判決也徹底的翻轉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8249.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8270.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
這是一個血淋淋的例子展現了即使有司法素養有獨大的見解是法律學者但是他當了大法官之後擁有權力之後轉變立場和當權者站在一起而無法升任憲法守護者的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8271.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8281.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
最後本席要強調大法官應該扮演的是維護憲法規則的公正裁判角色在關鍵時刻當中要對當權者說不 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8284.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8310.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這就是說的這邊對當選者說不堅持司法獨立才是全民的期盼民眾黨接下來也會站在這樣的立場嚴審全體大法官的人事案只有大法官他能夠堅持司法獨立這樣子民眾黨才會支持讓他通過好 謝謝好 謝謝劉書斌委員的發言接著請宗家斌委員發言林倩琪委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8312.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8340.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
好 謝謝主席那麼今天也非常感謝我們在場的學者專家在公聽會上提供他們專業上的意見也在這裡恭臨我們本院其他審查委員的意見看法在這裡呢 我想首先要提出對不起這個PowerPoint好像這邊不會動 有了 好我們想先請 想試著來提出一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8342.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8369.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這個問題是在法庭上的被告或原告可以選擇法官嗎抱歉院長我這邊的操作有點距離所以我常常沒有辦法你看因為我不曉得機器在哪裡院長可以暫停計時嗎看到對面你可以看得到嗎我是不曉得機器在哪裡因為我拿著遙控器在哪裡是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8371.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8399.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
OK 好 我試著來做處理好 來繼續我試著提這個問題來思考目前我們大法官同意權審查面臨到的問題原告跟被告不可能在法庭上去挑選法官但是現存的包括我們最高法院分案的流程不管是在民事或刑事如果有特定的事由是可以請法官迴避的 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8399.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8428.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那麼這樣的一個制度就確保我們雙方在法庭上的判決利益不會因著法官的特殊特定的立場跟偏見或者一些利害關係而造成影響那如果說一般的一些的法律訴訟是如此那憲法法庭或者大法官本身是不是有這樣的機會有的在憲法訴訟法一樣可以要求迴避 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8429.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8441.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
但是除了迴避之外可不可以預先的來就法官的任用來予以挑選呢似乎在國外有陪審團的制度雙方的訴訟代理人可以針對陪審團的成員預先做過濾篩選 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8446.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8475.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那也是要有足夠的事證經過法院法官的認可才可以但是在不是實施陪審團制度的台灣我們都很清楚負責審判的人不可能在事先經過雙方的認可才能進行審理這也是我們憲法第八十條法官必須超出黨派之上依律法律獨立審判那同時在釋字第601我們也看到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8479.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8498.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
其實大法官也是憲法上的法官那因此我們要問一個問題現在立法院在進行大法官同意的審查可以實質上去為現在過去甚至未來的憲法訴訟挑選法官嗎我們來看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8501.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8524.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
在場的民眾黨他們有張祺凱委員有提出廢監察院法庭直播這個都會在他們民眾黨審查大法官行使同意權的時候列入考量甚至也有民眾黨的委員陳昭芝表示她對於大法官將國會改革判定太多違憲感到不滿還有一致覺得死刑有疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8527.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8548.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
憲判已經作出了 死刑在什麼樣的條件之下才合乎憲法那麼未來的大法官他們可能要面對類似的案件的憲法訴訟而在進行同意權審查的時候身為憲法訴訟依照的 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8550.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8571.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
在野黨黨團可以以此為條件來作為他們審查大法官挑選的標準嗎我們也看到了國民黨的立法院黨團總召表示說他希望未來的大法官會議可以尊重國會的職權表示死刑是國會尋答的必要考題在野黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8576.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8604.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
對於過去在立法上發生的憲法爭議經過依法申請的憲法訴訟判決之後仍然表示不滿那麼在後續的大法官的同意權審查當中要透過這種方式來過濾符合他們對於憲法爭議符合他們預期結果的法官這是可以允許的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8605.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8629.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
如果對憲法判決不滿意,甚至就來癱瘓憲法法庭那如果真的符合在野黨的意思,大法官的同意權會通過嗎?我們看一下這是在去年的時候,有位大法官被提名人反廢死結果呢,國民黨主張反廢死的國民黨一樣全數封殺 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8630.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8653.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那這顯示著在我們大法官的同意權審查當中在野黨對於過去或進行中的憲法訴訟他們採取的挑法官的立場是可以被接受的嗎我們來看一下現在呢已經由憲法法庭受理的有監察院認為預算當中在在野黨居多數的國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8655.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8684.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
當中所進行的預算刪減將監察院的法定預算刪減到幾乎毫無所剩那麼他認為我們有提出監察院認為有違憲之餘要提出憲法訴訟結果我們看到現在的在野黨在大法官同意權審查之前就開始放話說要求把是否支持廢除監察院列為對於大法官同意權審查的一個考量何其荒謬啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8686.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8701.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
監察院留不留五權憲法要不要改成三權憲法那是修憲的問題修憲的提案權在立法院立法院要不要留監察院要不要留考試院要不要保留五權憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8702.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8727.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
立法院當然可以來做主啊難道還要把這個題目拿來問未來的大法官準大法官同不同意不同意就不接受甚至目前也有憲法訴訟法在大法庭憲法法庭當中待於審理當中這個憲法訴訟法就是最典型的當無法事前去挑選大法官的時候就透過事後 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8729.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8739.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
將憲法訴訟法造成了大法官缺額就無法運作的情況然後再藉由審查的杯葛讓憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8741.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8770.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
法庭沒有足額的大法官來進行審查而理由就是如果未來提到提名的大法官不符合在野黨他們這些對於不同的憲政或是法律見解就一律與封殺實質達到憲法法庭沒有符合他們意見的大法官可以來進行審理實質癱瘓憲法法庭那我們看到了癱瘓憲法法庭受害的是人民所以呢我們看到另外一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8772.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8775.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
統一法解釋法律的全責裁分 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8776.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8803.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
憲法第78條談到司法院解釋憲法又統一解釋法律及命令之權在過去大審法的第二條的時代是由司法院的大法官會議除了釋憲之外也進行了統一法律及命令到了憲訴法的時代就分開了那麼大法官組成憲法法庭然而法院組織法另外設有刑事跟民事的大法庭來為所謂這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8806.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8833.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
法律適用見解裁判上的統一見解那麼我們看到這樣的拆分之後歷經已經6年了我們看到大法庭他在進行的時候呢大概有從法律爭議的提出30天的徵詢延遲辯論到宣誓裁定以及終局判決那麼終局裁判的結果我們看到在108年之後就有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8836.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8859.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
108年台抗大治第897號的裁定認為債權人可以針對債務人的保單申請強制執行這樣的一個大法庭的裁定在202022年實施實施之後造成的結果就是眾多的執行業務大增甚至癱瘓了台北地方法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8860.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8876.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那在這種情況之下身為立法院的一份子我們去理解法院的實況之後我們努力的去透過保險法的修法將大法庭這樣的一個統一見解我們做事後的補救因此我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8877.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8902.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
是不是我們也應該來思考一下大法庭的制度實施六年是不是比照國民法官法的規定進行一個成效評估在國民法官法第104條105條第一項都有要他定期的檢討精進兼顧法理與實務因此呢藉由這一次大法官的提名權同意審查的公聽會本席也提出這個思維 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8904.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8933.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
在大審法過渡到限訴法大法庭民事刑事進行這樣的一個統一法律見解或裁判的一定的時候我們未來是不是將過去六年的執行的情況做一個檢討作為未來制度因應的參考也期許未來司法院的大法官能夠對這個問題有所回應 以上好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的發言我們現在請林倩琦委員發言陳培宇委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8936.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8949.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
主席、福音同仁、專家學者還有我們媒體朋友們大家好首先很感謝大家來針對司法院院長、副院長以及大法官被提名人的同意權行使的公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8950.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8974.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
大法官職責之崇高,不僅在於憲法解釋的專業判斷,更攸關憲政秩序的穩定、人權保障的發展與國家整體法制信賴的建構。因此,我們在行使同意權的過程當中,必須嚴肅審慎,秉持對全民負責的態度,來提出我們的關切的重要憲政議題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8976.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8995.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
本席在這邊提出幾項關注的面向第一個部分是省檢分曆的深化與落實本席注意到此次司法院院長被提名人為現職的主任檢察官此人事的安排已在社會上引發一定的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8996.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9016.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
剛才幾位專家學者也有針對這個部分有一些陳述那這個部分也涉及敏感的審檢分立制度原則我國雖然在制度設計上區分審判與檢查體系但是在實務與人事的任命上兩者仍存在著交錯與資源的流動性 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9018.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9037.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
院長作為全國最高司法行政機關之首,其背景來自檢查體系,極可能對未來的政策重點、人事決策、資源配置產生深遠的影響,尤其在當前社會質疑檢查體系偵查是否侵害人權、壓人取共。 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9039.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9066.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
審檢是否受政治力介入聯手辦案等問題之際院長人選出身檢查系統更需審慎地面對外界對司法獨立性的疑慮因此本席在這邊特別提出關切大法官被提名人無論是否出身檢查或審判體系應該具備審檢分際的清楚自覺與制度想像未來在制限或 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9066.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9085.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
制度設計上應更進一步的釐清並強化此一憲法保障的制度結構來確保司法謹守分際不偏不倚並維護人民對公平審判的信賴基礎第二個部分是有關原住民族司法權之保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9086.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9109.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
原住民族司法關係到《憲法增修條文》第十條第十二款所揭示保障原住民族地位之精神本席將持續關注原住民族專庭與司法官文化培訓實施的情形並希望未來的司法院長謹記在心完善符合原住民族秩序的司法架構 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9111.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9126.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
使司法自主權落實於原民生活經驗與文化脈絡當中持續來向前邁進第三個部分是有關於安樂死與尊嚴終老的立場在人口高齡化醫療科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9127.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9150.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
进展快速的背景下越来越多民众关系有尊严的离世是否属于宪法保障的自主权利之一本席认为如何在保障生命权的同时厘清安乐死选择权及其界限将是宪政发展不可回避的挑战之一届时希望能够听到被提名人的立场与看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9150.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9171.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
本席認為,針對癌末末期的病患、長期臥床等處境,社會已經累積了足夠討論的素材,應由憲法層次的大法官來釐清態度、表明立場,有利於立法院梳理立法形成的空間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9172.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9194.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
第四個部分是有關於兒少的這個問題我們在釋字664號看到在這個兒少的相關事件的一個處理對於少年事件處理法當中少年愚犯的這個規定大法官來解釋有關於愚犯少年尤其是少年逃學逃家等情形少事法規定違反了少年人權這個是相關的這個解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9197.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9211.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
立法院因此而修法取消了愚犯的規定增設了暴險少年的概念並因此創立行政輔導新型的制度但是實施以來有一些相關的實務性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9214.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9231.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
讓整個少年的犯罪激增目前高達了四成這個部分我們如何在律法的原理上的理想性跟實務的操作上取出一個平衡我想這也是刻不容緩的一個議題最後一個是有關於死刑制度之憲法命運 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9232.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9253.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
本席在這邊不得不嚴正的指出,憲法法庭在113年作出憲判自第八號雖未宣告死刑違憲,但卻已在死刑審判當中施加了一致絕的程序門檻在實務上的難度大幅增加,引起外界的普遍憂慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9256.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9270.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這樣一個趨勢是不是已經這樣宣告死刑違憲這樣子的一個方向做了一層的這個鋪路呢這是很多人的一個質疑所以對此本席要重申中國國民黨一概的主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9271.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9296.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
一貫的態度是保留死刑的這樣一個制度這並非單純出於懲戒的一個觀點而是基於捍衛司法正義還被害人家屬以公道以及端正社會秩序的一個考量死刑的議題不僅是法律的爭議更觸及社會基本價值與集體安全感的議題所以人民有權知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9297.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9315.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
未來八年內 新任大法官們對於死刑的態度與看法或者對於相關的這樣一個議題的研討是否有一些想法因此呢 本席在這邊呼籲被提名人應對死刑存廢的議題表達明確的立場與看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9317.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9337.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
甚至有一些方法的一個提供為以衝向的語言來迴避社會的焦慮每當重大刑案發生都非常令人痛心與悲憤但是被害人也常常沒有辦法為自己發聲人民會更期待國家以最終刑法來彰顯正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9340.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9357.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
恢復人民的基本安全感憲法法庭未來是否可以介入這樣一個制度根基正是社會觀察與我們國會監督之所在憲法的生命不只在於條文更在於制度運行當中的演進 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9358.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9379.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
大法官的職責是在憲政架構框架當中為國家憲政秩序提出跟指出一條明亮的道路為人民基本權守住最後一道防線本席陳志的期盼大法官被提名人皆能以憲法為置業以人民為依歸 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9380.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9403.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
本席期待無論出身學界審判或檢查體系甚至專家學者被提名人應該理解自身角色並不是單一的法律詮釋與判決者而是人民信賴的憲政秩序的守門人今日非常高興有許多專家學者提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9404.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9431.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
客觀、超然、批判還有哲學底蘊的和實務分享的學理與建議本席在此非常受用但是法律還有律法是人民信賴憲政秩序很重要的一環未來在整體大法官的審查當中本席會審慎臨梯各界的立場負起國會對大法官人士的監督責任謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9432.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9438.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
好 謝謝林倩琦委員的寶貴發言接下來我們請陳培宇委員發言鄭天才委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9439.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9462.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
好謝謝主席那關於在場的各位委員還有在座的各位學者專家大家早安今天全院委員會召開這個公聽會我想我們必須要以沉重嚴肅的態度來這邊發表我們的看法為什麼沉重為什麼嚴肅第一個我想要談現在台灣正在面臨的憲政危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9463.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9491.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
刚刚钟嘉斌委员也已经提到了相关的宪政危机基本上是从立法院开始的而立法院现在面临的宪政危机实质上已经影响到了全台湾的人民原本在2024的选举之后在野党本来可以好好监督执政党这也是人民托付给予在野党最重要的任务以及期盼所以人民投下珍贵的一票 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9492.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9506.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
但是沒有想到在野黨一上台就開始搞國會擴權相關的法案大家都看得非常的清楚接下來繼續在憲法訴訟因為吃鱉就搞憲法訴訟法的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9507.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9533.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
企圖癱瘓司法院還有憲法法庭他們擔心自己被罷免所以繼續惡修公職人員選舉罷免法而目前為止又提案要修憲廢掉監察院這就是我剛剛說的為什麼我們要嚴肅並且沉重的來看待現在所有從立法院所引起的台灣憲政危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9534.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9556.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
再講到關於五權憲法五權分立的概念原來一個好好的被憲法訴訟法可以保護的司法院但是現在要被癱瘓另外一個又要即將被廢掉也就是監察院原本好好的五權分立是國民黨自己最重要的中心價值現在看起來幾乎要變成3.5權 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9558.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9567.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
而這個3.5權之後我們更擔心立法院會不會打算繼續肆無忌憚的擴張自己的權限在未來我們無可得知但是在過去我們已經看到他們操作的痕跡 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9575.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9600.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這樣的憲政危機不會只有立法院的所有立法委員還有同仁要面對而是影響到台灣的實質運作這樣的憲政危機以前我們覺得毀憲亂政可能只是一個形容詞但現在已經真實的發生在台灣的社會根本是既成事實所以在今天的審查會當中我要率先優先提出關於憲政危機的擔憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9601.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9626.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
接下来要谈到大法官选缺的问题我不确定大家有没有想过明明去年12月初的立法院当时也是韩院长坐在这里举行过司法院人事权的公听会我们也举办过大法官被提名人的审查为什么半年后的今天我们要在这里再开一个主题几乎一模一样的公听会 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9627.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9652.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
答案非常的簡單,剛剛鍾嘉斌委員也說得很清楚了因為在野黨進行杯葛,杯葛的理由我們等一下再來說因此我們看到立法院在人事權案上面空轉了半年司法院也因為沒有院長、副院長,而且大法官懸缺7人空轉半年如果這不叫憲政危機,那請問什麼叫做憲政危機? |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9653.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9670.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
而且我必須要提醒,司法院在我國五權憲法的架構當中,是最重要的憲政守門人。大法官的工作、要務,除了要解釋法律命令之外,也是台灣人民基本權利的守護者。 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9672.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9686.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
過去有許多人權保障上的突破例如同婚 例如通姦除罪例如刑事受處分人的程序權益保障都是透過大法官或者憲法法庭來解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9687.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9709.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
更重要的是大法官受理的案件當中有許多是因為人民沒有辦法透過一般的訴訟救濟而在窮盡了救濟手段之後把最後的希望放在憲法法庭之上因此如果大法官的人數持續不足的結果會議可不可以開成 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9710.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9725.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
有沒有具備充足而且多元的意見案子可不可以審完整個憲法法庭是不是可以維持正常的運作我所提出的問題都是問號我不知道接下來我們有沒有機會來解決這些問題所以回到大法官選擇的標準來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9731.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9744.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我的立法委員資歷非常的淺不到三年但是相較於非常多資深的法律前輩你們口口聲聲說自己有法律的專業但我們真的要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9745.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9768.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
如何判断一个人是不是适合担任大法官的标准我们如何看待如何持平的讨论如何站在协助维护人民基本权利的位置上来看待一个大法官到底适不适任如果用去年12月的公听会还有大法官人事全案审查来说 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9769.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9792.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
很多在野党的委员积极的表态他们问大法官对于死刑存废的意见或者是对于113年度宪判八的看法如果按照这些在野党委员的说法按照他们的看法拿这个看法作为判断一个人是不是适任大法官的标准我觉得非常非常的奇特我也感到疑惑 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9794.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9819.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
怎麼說?疑惑的原因在於憲法法院做出113憲判8的見解之後難以想像後續憲法法庭會在再短的時間之內或是極短的時間之內再做出另外一個死刑解釋那為什麼我們要以被提名人對於過去案件的見解作為未來對他們評判的唯一標準這樣合理嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9820.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9843.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
更不要說大法官所會接觸到的案件類型相關案由千千百百種不要忘了這是人民基本權利的最後一道守護線而這個守護線所必須看到的事情千千百百種我剛剛已經說了我們怎麼能夠用被提名人對於一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9844.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9871.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
就那么一个议题的见解就去判断他在未来面对各式各样复杂多元的议题的时候都会是一个适格的大法官当然在过去司法院人事审查的时候每一个立法委员都可以透过各式各样的议题去询问询问大法官被提名人但是我认为每一个被提名人是不是适任的标准 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9872.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9890.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
並不是他的回答有沒有滿足每一個立法委員各自心中獨特的標準我們必須要看他們的學術涵養必須要看他們相關的操守也必須要考慮是不是足以成為我國憲法還有人權守護者的人格 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9891.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9904.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
还有整体大法官的专业背景是不是足够多元我们甚至还要考虑到性别比例而这些也必须成为后续我们在讨论一个大法官是不是适任非常重要的标准 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9905.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9933.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
所以最後一點點時間我還是要提出呼籲沉痛且嚴肅的呼籲我希望後續所有在野黨的立法委員請大家一起好好的進行司法院人事權的審查如同我剛剛所提出的台灣正面臨的憲政危機再加上立法院在在野黨委員的杯葛司法院院長副院長還有大法官的人事同意權一直遲遲無法通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9934.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9950.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
再次強調現在司法院大法官已經空轉超過半年有許多的會議還有人民所提出的釋憲案我再強調一次是一般人民所提出的釋憲案都還在排隊等待 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9950.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9966.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
因此我真心期盼在今天的公聽會後在後續三天的質詢審查會議之後相關的人事同意權可以儘速通過盡快的選出我們司法院的院長副院長還有大法官 以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9977.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9998.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
好 主席 我們院長還有寫者專家還有在場的我們所有的委員還有所有的媒體好 我們今天談這個司法院院長 副院長及大法官統一選我們先看賴總統在實講的當中特別提到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10002.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10021.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
總統特別指出,台灣是五權憲法的體制,五院要相互尊重,相互制衡。很難得我們總統說要守護憲法,既然要守護憲法,不能在野的時候說這個不是五權憲法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10023.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10050.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
尤其是像我們這個民進黨的黨綱仍然不承認五錢憲法認為是要另外一套新的憲法這是一個不能在野的時候是這樣現在執政的時候五錢我們樂觀也拜託賴總統真的要守護五錢憲法我們看這個總統特別提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10051.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10070.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
行政院對立法院決議之法律案 預算案 如認為有自愛難行時 得經總統之合格 以該決議案送達行政院時日內 以請立法院復議我要拜託賴總統不要只談到這一段 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10072.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10098.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們還要看整個條文完整的條文中華民國憲法申修條文第三條第二項規定的很明確尤其是第二款的最後兩計畫這個復議案如今全體立法委員二分之一以上決議維持延案 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10099.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10123.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
行政院院長應即接受該決議要請賴總統趕快跟卓榮泰院長說對於財化法對於114年度的總預算案已經送到立法院附議立法院已經做了決議要維持延案 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10125.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10146.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
行政院院長應該要遵守中華民國憲法徵修條文第三條第二項的最後一計畫行政院院長應即接受該決議啊所以應該趕快把你的釋憲案趕快撤回啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10147.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10173.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
趕快把你的視線對財務法的視線對預算案的視線要撤回請代總統趕快要求卓榮泰院長另外就是司法院竟然還受理趕快要依正修中華民國憲法生修條文第三條第二項第二款的最後一計畫行政院要 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10173.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10201.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
院長要接受啊接受這個該立法院的決議啊所以應該要不受理才對啊怎麼還受理呢所以我們今天談到這個大法官到底有沒有遵守憲法有沒有依立法院的決議有沒有尊重立法院這個都是我們必須要去思考去討論的部分好 我們接下來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10203.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10230.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
賴總統在談到這個所附憲法的時候特別提到所附五前憲法的時候特別提到考試院為國家最高考試機關 掌理考試 利用前夕考機積分升遷很重要的他提到輔系退休輔系退休等事項是考試院的前者賴總統特別提到下面兩句話很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10231.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10257.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
立法院不可以介入考試院的職權運用多數來決定公務人員的退府制度說得非常好我們回顧蔡英文總統105年上任的時候在統統府特別成立年金改革委員會由陳副總統當時的副總統召開邀請的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10261.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10280.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
各縣以及各界開了這個年金改革委員會議召開完之後提出了草案送給考試院考試院把公務人員退休之前撫恤法送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10282.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10306.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
但是當時基於絕對多數的民進黨立法委員並沒有依考試驗所送來的公務人員退休之前撫恤法來審議立法院通過的是什麼呢是段宜康委員的版本不是依考試驗的版本喔段宜康委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10308.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10331.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
他有這麼厲害了解公務人員退休之前輔系的相關的規定複雜的規定嗎他不了解很簡單只要把考試院送來的再多砍再大砍就是用這種方式當時民進黨立法院絕對多數就通過了我們怎麼氣死 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10333.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10357.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
說明都沒有辦法本席當時就是在司法法治委員會去捍衛要依考試驗的的法案來審議通過但是沒有所以今天總統特別提到立法院不可以介入考試驗的職前用多數來決定顧問人員退府制度所以當時就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10360.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10387.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
當時106年立法院所通過的公務員退休之前撫恤法完全如果依賴總統的意見應該要趕快重新修法請賴總統再請考試院重新把這個案送來才是符合你今天所要談的首付五前憲法好我們接著看憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10389.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10394.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
第62條立法院為國家最高的立法機關然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10395.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10424.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
中華民國憲法徵修條文第十二條規定憲法的修改 西京立法院立法委員四分之一之提議四分之三之出席及出席委員四分之三之決議提出憲法修正案並且通過之後還要公告半年 然後還要怎麼樣由那個人民投票複解 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10426.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10455.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
要由人民投票復席所以修憲是一個非常困難的而且這個是立法院的職權要請賴總統特別告訴所有的現在的司法院要守護憲法守護五權憲法要尊重立法院對於修憲的潛力我們就講 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10458.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10484.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
憲法第78條規定司法院解釋憲法並有統一解釋法律及命令之前你只有寫釋你不能修憲你不能造憲如果我們看我們中華民國的總統從民選開始從李登輝總統所提名的大法官到陳水扁總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10486.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10515.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
所提名的大法官雖然陳水扁總統當執政的時候立法院是這個在野是多數但是所提名的大法官大家沒有不會認為他們有這個修憲在解釋憲法的時候不會認為說他們修憲造憲拿到把這個立法院的職權拿走 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10516.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10544.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
大家不會有這樣的質疑而這九年來卻是大家都質疑大把關在造法而且是修憲已閱了立法院的立法前跟修憲前我們就解最簡單的例子大家都都常講的這個例子死刑死刑這個部分我們從刑法開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10547.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10554.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
自定一直到非常多年的修行法就還是維持了死刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10557.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10579.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
大法官如果認為死刑要一字結應該要建議立法院修刑法修刑事訴訟法修其他的相關的法律而不是直接就說自本判決宣誓之日起均應一散開一旨就是要一字結 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10580.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10592.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
這個就是一頁的憲法沒有所附憲法在這邊特別來跟大家做這樣的一個報告好 謝謝謝謝鄭天才委員接下來我們請最後一位蔡議員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10595.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10611.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
好謝謝院長各位學者專家還有我們與會的各位審查委員那今天是針對我們大法官的一個公聽會那我想我們在審查這個大法官那我們今天進行的這樣的一個會談那我在想那針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10613.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10630.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
大法官我們要的審查我們要分為三個一個層次第一個是關於大法官的專業素養那第二個是大法官他賦予憲法賦予他憲法的制度的一個角色那以及大法官應該要擔任社會一個信賴穩定的一個力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10631.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10651.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那所以大法官他具備的法學的一個專業續養然後他在憲法他應該要高度的抽象性跟開放性能夠在自由人權民主跟法治的基本原則下進行價值的判斷以及論證那大法官應該也要立場超然然後展現他的獨立性以及他對 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10652.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10671.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
憲政的一個責任他的臨選他應該要檢視他的不應該是只是不應該是看他的政治背景應該關注他是否具備他在抗多數決的一個能力那第三大法官他具備的應該要有公信力以及他要相當的人格操守 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10671.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10699.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那也就是說在未來在審查大法官的時候我們事實上也期待著這一些被提名人的大法官他們事實上也可以參考美國參議院參議員在對大法官做提名審查的時候其中有一個很著名的案例就是他們已經去世的大法官叫做金斯伯格他在聽證會上的一個相關發言這個金斯伯格他是1993年6月的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10701.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10717.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
他是由柯林頓總統所提名美國最高法院的大法官在當年1993年7月20日至23日審查的時候那這個大法官被詢問到說他是否支持死刑或者是廢除死刑的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10718.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10744.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
金斯伯格他是這樣的回應他說這是可能會出現在我面前的案件我不認為在尚未聽取案情跟雙方的辯論前應該公開表達我的意見作為一個被提名的大法官我的角色是根據憲法與法律來裁判而不是預先立場或政策的傾向所以金斯伯格他也建立了所謂在於大法官審查的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10744.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10773.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
不會就他雖然是沒有回答問題但是他主要是展現了一個叫做不論斷案件那這個充分的展現了一個司法的一個角色那也是美國最高法院在臨選的時候樹立的所謂不表態原則的一個傳統那台灣事實上很多在於質詢的時候我們這一些立法委員在質詢我們才會希望大法官表態但是大法官在因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10775.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10789.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
審查因應這個質詢立法院的垂詢的時候他的表態是否會適當這件事我覺得是大家要去思考的那當然大法官在接受質詢的時候的表態 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10790.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10807.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
他可能會充分的反映在現在立法院在做大法官投票的一個記名投票的制度那我們立法院在修法之後從過去的無記名改為記名投票當然這個記名投票他適用所有 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10808.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10833.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
太陽的一個投票那在於大法官審查的時候記名投票卻往往讓這個大法官他們喪失了個別他們有不同的法律觀點或者是個別委員對於支持特定被提名人的空間那常常變成所謂政黨一致性的投票在政黨一致性的投票之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10834.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10857.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
每一個大法官他們的一個因為不同的背景或是不同的主張卻沒辦法展現在大法官最後投票然後他所獲得的票數是否代表著他的理念或者是他平常的一些在過去的一個表現或獲得部分立委的個別支持這個已經喪失了這樣的一個功能那 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10858.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10877.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我們也希望在野黨包括國民黨跟民眾黨他們接下來跟我們三個黨都要一起來做大法官的一個投票那我們也希望這一個投票可以實質有效而不是只是剛剛我講的黨團一自決然後就直接說要把這一些一併封殺一併封殺的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10880.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10904.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
讓很多優秀的一個大法官被提名人這樣優秀的一些法界的人士他們無法進入憲法的這個大法官讓這樣的一些人才沒有辦法替國家服務這個是非常可惜的但是我們現在最擔心的就是在於去年12月20號三讀通過的憲法訴訟法 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10905.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10927.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
因為在去年三讀通過的憲法訴訟法他們規定憲法法庭做成判決或暫時處分應該要有大法官現有總而十人以上參與評議那違憲宣告的不得低於九人也就是說未來以現在只有八人的大法官他們沒有辦法做出這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10929.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10946.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
大法官的一些評議那當然也沒辦法做出所謂是否合憲或者是違憲的一個實質審查那這樣的一個情況之下我們看到了目前憲法訴訟法上路以來新收了從111年1月 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10949.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10973.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
憲法訴訟法上路來 新收的是7433件的一個申請數但是其中有7355件是人民的申請也就是說在這7400多件的申請案中有高達98是屬於人民來申請的案件但是我們從看到去年這個三讀通過的憲法訴訟法之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10976.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11004.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
有新收案件566件其中550件是人民的申請案百分比率也是跟剛剛差不多97%但是今年通過的憲法判決是零案就是零那這個零就代表著這個憲法訴訟法已經實質傷害了人民去申請釋憲的這樣的一個機會以及他的釋憲權但當然現在大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11004.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11011.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
憲法法庭我們也看到了他們針對這個憲法訴訟法是否違憲這件事情現在也已經在審查當中但是在還沒有審查出來的話我們看到這一個零他還是會繼續掛在這邊而且掛在這邊就是讓我剛剛講的在今年新收的這500多個案件中沒有辦法被審查人民的權益沒有辦法獲得救濟的機會那這樣的情況是非常罕見那也是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11034.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11062.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
一直很不樂見在野黨通過了強行通過了這樣的憲法訴訟法讓大法官沒有辦法行使他的權利那當然這個的解套也是必須在這一次行使表決權的時候我們希望實質有效的決定大法官是否事任也就是說如果是事任的大法官我們就應該讓他趕快就定他的崗位來行使他大法官的權限來替人民來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11063.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11084.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
憲法法庭的一個捍衛那我們也回到實務上最近我看到基隆地方法院他們對於兩位法官進行的所謂深屆的一個處分那一個是民事庭那另外一個是強制執行處的法院那其中強制執行處的法院他受這個法官受到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11085.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11112.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
懲戒是因為他在強制執行案件中拖延太久單一個強制執行案拖延了五年多所以我們也是希望說未來我們就任的他們除了是大法官之外也會身兼司法院院長的一個角色所以我們也希望未來的司法院可以去盯好像這樣的一個救濟權利尤其像在民事的執行處因為我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11112.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11122.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
執行處他代表最後正義的一個伸張跟實現那如果人民已經窮記了他的救濟完成了所謂一審二審三審的一個判決那判決之後需要執行處來做最後的權力的實現來做最後的完成的時候卻因為執行處的拖延造成他們沒有辦法依照他的判決內容來實現他的正義的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11137.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11157.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
那這部分也不是人民所樂見的所以我們也希望未來的司法院在於新的院長就任之後可以去督促這樣的事情當然我在講效率的問題之外整個司法院過勞的問題也是我們大家要來注重的士庭地方法院刑事庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11158.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11182.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
法官李法官在今年4月12號凌晨從宿舍墜樓身亡那他傳給生前傳給他妻子的文字是累了我愛你抱歉要離開了震驚了整個法界以及整個社會那這也出現出法官長期過勞的一個狀況那以台北地方法院來說事實上我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11183.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11209.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這幾年來總共的案件數是從2013年大概平均每年的案件是兩萬七千件到了2023年已經暴增到了三萬五千件那中間就是以詐騙案件最多那既然暴增了這麼多案件代表法官的工作日工作時間也不斷的拉長那我們也希望未來的司法院的院長也可以注重法官他們的一些工作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11210.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11235.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
他們過勞的一個問題那以上幾點是我針對今天公聽會那我對未來審查的時候我提出相對應的期許那我最希望的就是說在審查之後我們大家在行使我們的表決權我們是否要同意大法官就任的時候大家必須要秉持立場如果是優秀的司法界人員我們就要讓他趕快上任來替我們國家的司法來服務謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11236.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11260.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
好,謝謝參與委員的發言報告所有參與的委員各位學者專家我們審查小組委員的詢問及發言完畢現在我們進行最後一個程序請學者專家針對剛才各位審查小組所提出的詢問提出綜合答覆每位答覆的時間每位為三分鐘麻煩請掌握時間首先我們請林騰 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11262.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11283.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
要教授 林滕耀教授請 請發言 請好 謝謝 首先回應這個蔡育儀委員的一個講法我對她我非常的生氣今天國民黨跟民眾黨的委員是全程在座蔡委員是11點20分才到我的感覺很丟臉第二個 針對剛才這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11289.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11316.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
陳培宜委員他所講的這個事情他說當前的憲政危機是立法院造成的這是一個不知憲政是非廉恥的說法因為當前的憲政危機主要是因為賴清德違反了總統的憲法忠誠義務賴清德這一年多來投機取巧打壓立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11318.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11327.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
他甚至還假借上世紀反共的國號不斷的分裂國家打壓預籍這裡說到反共啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11329.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11356.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
誰會比蔣中正、蔣經國還要反共但是他們為了台灣人民的安全跟福祉可以解除戒嚴可以開放老兵回鄉探親而所謂兩國論的台獨之父李登輝甚至可以開啟兩岸三通全面交流他們為什麼這樣做呢因為時代在變環境在變潮流也在變 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11357.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11385.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
特別是今天中華民國憲法所規定的大陸地區已日漸在實施孫中川先生的建國大綱建國方類三民主義兩岸時代可以透過中華民國憲法所規定的三民主義一個中國的基本信念來全面交流來實現三民主義新中國的願景來達成子子孫孫四世代的和平和繁榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11387.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11411.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
因此賴清德不應該為了自己權力的需要拿著上世紀萬惡共悔境外敵對勢力的反共八股標籤違反中華民國立法的立國精神來善惑人心來要求人民打城市交土戰謝謝好 謝謝林教授寶貴的言論接下來我們請黃明輝教授請發言 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11414.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11428.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我想針對剛剛委員有提問說大法官人選最重要的條件是什麼我想其實就是對憲政主義的堅持而且這個堅持必須要大過於你對特定的個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11429.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11446.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
特定的政黨乃至於特定意識形態的一個熱愛在法律面前我們都是法律的一個仆人那能不能說到這一點我覺得其實我們的被提名人都有很豐富的閱歷跟經驗我想是有足夠的素材可以提供我們在座的各位立委來加以檢驗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11449.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11477.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
那至於這一個剛剛也有委員提到說這個整個我們的人事審查的程序的一個問題喔的確我剛剛其實為什麼一直要強調說整個大法官我們算是總統提名立法院是統一權但這其實不要去太計較這個所謂的階段性的劃分因為這樣的設計它代表就是一個權力的共享那共享如果你為了要這個總統的提名絕對不是人提出來我就放生了你提名就是要獲得通過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11477.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11505.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
所以你必須要能夠跟立法院有非常非常充分的溝通事先能夠越能夠有越多的溝通就能夠越能化解後面的阻力但是當你事前的溝通不夠的時候當然立法院的後階段的審查自然會傾向重演那重演的結果當然就會流於對抗所以這我為什麼要在今天發言強調日後我還是會希望總統這邊能夠建立一個制度性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11506.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11534.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這一個非正式的一個協商的機制來化解這個事先尤其我們一次提名那麼多人所以其實應該要事先就人選去進行潛在人選去進行更多的一個溝通跟協調那即使有事前溝通協調不代表我們事後的審查是放水的我們當然還是可以再去做一個第二階段更嚴謹的就在第二階段還是可以去做該有的一個檢驗但是最起碼你可以化解一些一些阻力那另外我剛剛非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11535.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11561.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
這個同意幾位委員也提到就是說我們好像不應該讓這個大法官對未來可能的問題去做表態但是對於過去的案件展現你的一個司法的一個作為一個法律人的一個司法的態度我覺得這個是有必要的不然我們要拿什麼來檢驗我們的被提名人呢但是每一個議題我都覺得可以問沒有什麼不能問但是立法委員不適合用單一的 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11562.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11591.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
單一的問題的答案來決定這個被提名人因為我們要考量的是很多點這是一個綜合的通盤的考量所以你可以問但是不要只糾結在一個單一例如說死刑與否然後你就把一個很優秀的人選徹底的否定掉這是很可惜的那另外我今天剩下15秒時間我簡單說明先因為我剛剛有提到是說司法審判就是正副院長的這個同意權跟大法官可以分離我指的意思是立法院可以先針對大法官的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11592.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11616.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
做一個同意權的行使然後接下來再針對正副院長的行政職去做投票因為總統的咨文也是這樣子先提名所有的人然後並以這個蔡秋名先生為院長所以我是覺得可以把這兩個分開來那麼可以給我們的政治部門更多運作的彈性我覺得以往雖然沒有這個先例但我覺得我們可以做這個嘗試以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11618.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11636.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
謝謝黃教授的說明 謝謝接下來我們請賴秉祥賴律師請 謝謝謝謝院長 謝謝在座各位委員我覺得大家在現場都有各自的政治跟各自的法律的立場那甚至包含剛剛有在場先進有提到雙偵查主體就是由警方來復旦部分的偵查內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11637.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11662.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
就這個學說或法律制度的見解我就覺得要持保留態度但因為今天的立法院、貴院現在就針對司法院長、副院長跟大法官同意權的公聽會我覺得要鎖定會議主題啦那鎖定會議主題就是說我們要針對大法官的人選去做說明跟表態或說出這個見解我覺得今天不是在審查總統也不是在審查過去的政治人物我覺得這樣會比較尊重貴院跟尊重大法官人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11662.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11688.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那我要特別強調就是說我要呼籲貴院就是不要以大法官人選過去見解為表態也不要由何人來決定我舉個例子就是4-617號解釋大法官曾經要就南同志書籍的猥褻性言論來進行放寬可是大法官在看過南同志的這個書籍之後他們就限縮了他們保守因為他們看不下去所以他們採核限性解釋那第二個是呢過去由執政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11689.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11698.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
多數以及執政黨提名的這個大法官人選比如說112現判三出現我國第一個雙組比大法官一個是詹森林大法官一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11699.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11729.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
謝明洋大法官為什麼?因為他們就不同立場所以我覺得大法官由誰提名由哪一個政黨多數決來表態未必會都代表他會跟這個政黨意志一樣這要先說明因為我覺得法學很多先進還是有他自己的價值判斷包含貴院跟行政院最大爭議就一一三線判九也是有不同意見書啊所以我覺得沒有那麼的以所謂的提名的執政黨或提名的這個所謂多數黨的人選去做判斷他的價值立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11729.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11749.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那剛剛有提到幾個脈絡跟幾個問題我還是要先呼籲院長在場委員以及可能收聽收看的各位立法委員的幕僚先進我覺得撇除政治問題來講現在目前司法最大問題就是司法的過勞跟不管是司法官或說這個書記官等過勞問題我希望可以就這個問題去加以 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11750.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11778.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
問各位所謂的大法官提名人選 尤其是司法院長跟副院長那包含之前在貴院所召開的少年事件 少年收容人已經超過人數的部分這對少年是非常嚴重的 應該就這部分撇除政治立場 我們就這部分好好的問一下那當然政治立場大家要問沒有問題啦 比如說有些議題可能也沒有那麼政治 像剛剛林委員有提到的安樂死 尊嚴死 還有少年愚犯導致的少年犯罪問題或是說死刑制度 這都是可以展現出他們立場可是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11778.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11806.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
政治立場之外我還是希望可以多問一些客觀中立的司法改革的部分這才是國家千秋大業那我覺得這也才是可以讓大法官人選不管未來大家同不同意至少可以讓目前身處高位的司法人員比如說司法院的相關的院長還有相關的這個所謂廳長等或是說檢查方面的法務部的部長等他們可以去反思目前基層的人員是否過單負擔過重 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11808.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11832.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
謝謝賴律師的寶貴發言接下來我們請黃國忠律師請我要跟參議員委員報告我今天的資料裡面有最高法院的弟兄們以前都是男性的大法官金思寶是第二位他在美國參議院不表態是為了隱藏他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11833.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11853.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
意識形態因為在2015年的判決裡面他就質疑死刑是否合憲在鄭天才委員講到考試院我覺得非常的有道理今天周萬來秘書長說他怎麼樣以前幫那個周鴻憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11855.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11883.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
院長做保 第一個工作幫他做保因為周鴻燊跟我同時考上高考好 再來陳培榆委員所垂詢的說怎麼樣的標準我要報告就是說顧立雄 黃高永成理念組都當過台北律師公會的理事長我當那個憲政委員會的主委陳水扁委員陳水扁總統提名16位黑貓當 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11885.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11911.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
大法官我們提名16位白貓只要那個白貓的名次超過黑貓我覺得就應該讓位給白貓當大法官而且我們那時候做得很公平有請東武大學的法研所整理以前大家的資料那林倩琦委員的花言很有啟發性我要報告就是說德日跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11912.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11934.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
英美它的法學訓練不一樣德日就是我國這種概念法學派英美用歸納法的案例所以比較能夠了解事情的全貌我很佩服鍾嘉斌委員歷史系畢業能夠對大法庭跟大法官的制度了解那麼深刻 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11936.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11950.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
非常贊成說大法官還有全國的法官都要有評價制度我更主張說每年要流動4%那這樣25年就可以輪回一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11951.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11965.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
在劉書斌委員說要國會參與提名,非常的有道理在我資料裡面有那個德國跟西班牙的案例,就是先遵循國會的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11967.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11993.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
再來吳宗憲委員所垂詢的問題我跟各位報告就是林永謀大法官的刑事訴訟法的書裡面有提到說違反平等原則的話也是起訴不符不合程式應該欲知不受理的判決我加以解釋就是辦藍不辦綠也是違反平等的原則 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11995.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12011.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
好 謝謝黃律師的寶貴意見接下來我們請胡博業胡教授 請是 剛剛有人提到說是不是在提名之前跟國會協商確實從德國法的例子上確實是有這樣的例子但是德國法是一個比較純粹的議會民主制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12012.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12038.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
實際上來講德國的政治穩定性當中還有很多因素其實在我國目前是沒有例如像妥協跟協調這件事情其實在我們目前的政治抗爭性這麼高當中這是一個很難突破的困境我們應該要朝向一個讓政治更穩定的方向來去做前進那陳培瑞委員提到的說我們現在目前的案件在排隊當中實際上來講我們的憲法法庭不是全然沒有功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12039.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12058.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
只是我們現在憲法法庭的審查庭還是有功能就是專門在不受理大家的審查啦也就是說是在排隊當中沒有錯排隊的被不受理當中但是為什麼他也顯見一件事情因為如果我們人數不夠確實他想要做判決他也沒辦法做判決出來也就是說為什麼會變成是 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12061.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12083.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
這個狀況而言基本上來講也跟我們現在必須要去面對的問題是如果我們不趕快把人數補齊的話人民的怨言可能會越來越多因為接下來大家還是會持續的收到不受理這個部分的決定這個其實是一個很大的部分的傷害而我們剛剛提到的是其實諸位先進都有提到說我們審查說實在的每一個審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12083.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12105.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
的人都會期待一件事情就是備受審查的人啊基本上他的觀點最好跟我一樣這個其實是無可厚非的一件事情就像大家政黨在因為大法官其實以後被提名之後當了大法官之後其實他就放飛自我了所以呢從總統到立法委員基本上來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12106.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12121.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
這可以說是最後一次可以在政治上面你說是審查也可以說是一種干涉為什麼我就希望說這個人想法跟我一樣嘛這個其實任何一個國家都是無可厚非川普可能會去提名一個跟他意見不一樣的大老闆 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12122.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12142.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
是不可能的事情但是呢我覺得我們審查還是避免一件事情是不要用單一的案件跟單一的標準當中而言去做的因為可能是要去整體性的去觀察這一個人到底適不適當而且我剛剛講的是我們其實真的不是要選擇一個人格上面有沒有缺陷或是缺陷多大的人而是在是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12143.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12161.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
選擇一個人這個人適不適合擔任憲法法庭法官的角色那同樣的問題是在於說對院長副院長的候選人因為他擔任了司法行政的角色實際上我常常講一句話我們最近為了法庭直播問題爭執很大我覺得我是不問之詞法庭直播不代表說一定會讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12162.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12178.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
程序上面就會更公開性同樣的國民法官也不代表說這個制度一定就讓整體的司法就改革了但是呢我們其實審判機關要負擔的角色還是非常的重要而一個有檢察官出身的院長當然會受到大家質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12179.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12192.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
但是檢察官的行政議題是因為他的檢查體系裡面啊不然吳宗憲委員已經離開檢查體系他就不是檢察官同樣的到了院裡面的時候蔡秋名也不是檢察官自然那個憂慮感其實應該是消滅的 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12194.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12221.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
非常感謝胡教授寶貴的意見接下來我們以蘇子喬蘇教授請我回應一下剛剛委員提到的一些問題跟我做一些補充我認為就是大法官的被提名人的適否事任事任大法官這個部分我想就是幾個重要的一個判斷標準包含大法官他的人格操守憲政涵養這個法律專業然後他對這個人權理念的這個的一個堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12223.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12244.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那當然我認為說提司法院正副院長他除了是大法官的身份之外因為他同時就有司法行政監督這樣的一個職權而且也是司法改革的主要引領者所以關於這個司法院正副院長的人選的審查的時候我想也要更重視這個被提名人他本身的這個治理能力溝通協調能力還有他對這個領導這個法院體系的這個領導的威信 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12248.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12276.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
那另外一方面還有包含他對這個司法改革的這個認知跟承諾我覺得這也是很相當重要的那因為剛剛委員各位委員也有提到一個重點就是說之前的憲法訴訟法的這個修法的爭議跟修法的瑕疵我覺得確實是一個當時憲署法的這個修法確實是一個有蠻多的爭議跟值得商榷的一個問題的不過我認為就是說這是兩個層面的事情也就是說如果當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12278.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12295.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
憲法訴訟來修法有它錯誤的地方而在大法官的同意權的審查上為了要避免憲法法庭的實質空轉而在這部分放水的話那其實我覺得這是錯上加錯我覺得這是兩個層面的事情就是說我覺得大法官的審查還是應該做一個比較嚴格實質的審查的 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12304.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12332.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那另外我要再 如果還有一點時間再提醒一下就是說我認為對大法官被提名人的審查的時候如果不要講政府院長的話就是針對大法官被提名人的審查應該避免對這個對這些人選過度詢問那些政治性的質問跟政治忠誠的測試那對具體案件的表態我覺得認為還是可行的因為不然要不然要問什麼問題呢那只是說這些問題應該避免是是非題 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12333.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12353.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
而應該是深論題應該是用深論題而且就是剛剛我覺得就如黃明輝教授所說的就是說也應該避免就單一議題的立場而去對這個人選進行一個否定的這樣的一個決定那但我還是要提醒就是說大法官的被提名人也要避免詞問 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12355.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12374.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
虛答 勝論題的部分不是要虛答 就是說可以對一個比較大的理念做一個他的回覆然後也不要去拒絕回答 因為在上一輪的這個大法官被提名的審查過程當中我們確實看到有些被提名的人他就拒絕回答某些問題那這樣的話 那就失去了立法院審查的這樣的一個意義了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12376.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12395.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
最後的一個結論,我認為就是說我們期待大法官是作為自由民主憲政體制的一個守護者而不是特定政黨利益的守護者這是我最後的一個結論,好謝謝謝謝蘇教授,在接下來我們請最後一位林毓順,林教授請 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12397.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12412.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
謝謝主席剛才那個劉書斌委員有詮詢就是說我們少數總統能不能洽詢立法院關於人事的一些議題其實我們這個問題可以稍微緩過來想就是說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12413.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12435.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
我們立法院在立法的時候有些設計比較可能憲法解釋或是違憲問題的時候我們立法院能不能跟司法院大法官問一下違憲的一個限度合憲的限度的問題我想這個就是彼此尊重的問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12439.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12462.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
如果我們互相尊重彼此的權限我是贊成這少數總統要問我們立法院相關的一些人事的一個選裁舉裁的標準那相對的我們立法院關於那核限的限度範圍在某一個程度方面也可以去請教我覺得是彼此尊重的一個很重要的增表 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12463.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12491.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
然後第二個就是說提到就是說如果我們對於這個被提名人應該要問的問題我覺得要善用我們的質詢權或是所謂的結問的權利人家說司法最大一個發明有個法院司法最大的發明就是一個交互結問那我們立法院很重要的一個的職權就是結問那為什麼要做這件事情就是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12493.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12515.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
就是像我們常講的那個傳聞傳說這件事情有一句他是怎麼脈絡下去講那句話去表達意見其實有他的背景有他的狀況甚至一句話他的語氣他用於那個場景設定不一樣那是完全不一樣意思所以我覺得應該要善用 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12515.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12532.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我們的質詢權好好的問清楚這個大法官他在一些價值的取向或是一些法案的一個看法那比如說我們現在關於死刑什麼叫做最嚴重的犯罪這個議題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12534.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12555.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我是覺得我們要更進一步我們不能再流落在之前的討論到底大法官有沒有這個權利我們現在很明確就是關於嚴重的犯罪重大的犯罪一定是國民法官審那現在面對的問題是現在如果國民法官一審認為人民參與審判他認為這是一個最嚴重的犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12556.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12584.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那你現在我們法律規定你職業法官要尊重一審的判決那我們要去問一下未來的大法官你對於這個最嚴重的犯罪要尊重人民還是要用自己的職業法官的判斷這是馬上要遇到的問題我相信這個只要去把它的脈絡或是把它的場景設定去我覺得這是必要的那第二問題我覺得要問的就是我們看一下隔壁的韓國就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12585.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12599.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
因為他們就檢查司法照舊所謂他們每一任的卸任總統都射送那怎麼辦呢還是回到我們的智慧剛才提到不管是李登恩總統的全國司改會議或是我們的所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12602.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12619.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
施改國事會議都認為司法一元化理由就是很重要是政治要跟司法分開我是覺得我們這樣冤冤相報未來還是沒辦法解決這是我們司法院或是我們歷屆總統對於國民的承諾我們要去追究這件事情以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12621.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12646.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
謝謝林教授寶貴意見謝謝各位學者專家綜合答覆我們進行到此為止今天公聽會非常感謝學者專家以及審查小組各位委員的寶貴意見各位在本次公聽會針對本院行使同意權所發表的精闢見解對於本院所有的委員之後舉行的全院委員會的審查以及將來院會行使同意權投票的時候都有極大的幫助本次公聽會的發言紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12648.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12665.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
以及書面資料將依規定分受全體委員以及與會學者專家做參考並列入本院公報紀錄成為國會正式紀錄再次謝謝大家的出席一起參加非常感謝我們現在散會 |