| IVOD_ID |
167976 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167976 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-26T13:59:37+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-26T14:15:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:23 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/62ea4221ea272c4ed71c7deeceaafb54c30e9bbc489b48f67c21d93b3021e0bf12eae036270d068b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:59:37 - 14:15:00 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部長及勞動部部長就「在職照顧者支持體系是否完善、長照3.0服務輸送與長照安排假評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月25日及26日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝召委 麻煩請石部長跟洪部長 麻煩兩位部長這位好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
43.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長好 兩位部長好我們今天討論長照安排假的可行性原理我有看到媒體的一則報導引述的是日本早自1999年依《育兒戒護修業法》提供93天67%的資金的家庭照顧假我想要請教一下 日本有這樣的法律勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
55.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
清楚嗎那媒體報導之後勞動部的官員有沒有向部長報告日本這個法案的實質內容還有執行的成效如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
57.337 |
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74.674 |
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跟委員報告委員提到的這部分其實應該是他們留庭的部分他們其實應該有點像他們的這個他們在戒護修業那這部分是留庭的比較是留庭的概念那假的部分他們其實也有可是他比較是無心的部分對 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
75.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
101.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以你看整體那個他們執行成效怎麼樣有去看嗎有特別去看他們的執行成果我們可能還要再對執行的成果做進一步的瞭解但就制度上面我們是有去掌握的因為他們執行成效好壞喔這個是值得你們好好去研究一下他們的留庭的部分請的部分是比較低是比較低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
102.725 |
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120.696 |
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好那我就把問題拋出來這個是你們要去注意的那接下來就是我們台灣現在已經有這個家庭照顧假了那原則上是7天可以併入到這個市假共14天那不起薪但是也不可以影響到全勤 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
121.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
138.37 |
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那現在呢又提出有幾就是有幾星的長照安排假那事實上實際上就是這個家庭照顧假那我要請教洪部長說其實我想要請教的是兩位部長就是說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
140.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
159.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
假如我們今天推動的這個通過了齁兩種假都同時存在的時候那兩位部長又是剛好是這個又是事業單位的這個雇主那你會優先安排沒幾星的家庭照顧假還是要幾星的長照安排假我想先聽一下其實可能還是要看室友跟對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
168.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
188.196 |
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因為家庭照顧假他的範圍是比較廣的就是他他發生的室友是什麼就比方說他如果是說他突然他要做小孩的照顧那這會是他的這個對象跟室友他會是一個選擇所以會要看他的室友 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
189.367 |
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216.392 |
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所以你要看你會他有員工請假了那對啊你要優先準他準他這個沒有幾星的還是有幾星的但是要看他的室友就是說他的室友是那如果都如果都符合那你要先你是雇主你會先給哪一種假現在常常安排假不是我們現在還在討論的事情嗎就是說假如通過了的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
217.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
221.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我現在說假如通過的話因為這個問題都是你們會面臨到的問題嗎我覺得這可能要跟勞工一起討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
226.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
248.089 |
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那施部長看法怎麼樣?跟委員說明,如果從我們早上在討論的長照安排下,概念上比較像說因為這個家庭剛開始有一個需要長照服務的私人家屬的時候,那需要有一些安排跟適應。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
249.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
265.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以他可能都是屬於第一次的這個概念所以跟家庭照顧假有點不一樣家庭照顧假可能是他已經變成是長照的對象但是他有時候需要譬如說他家裡的這個外勞他這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
268.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
289.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
離職或者是回去照顧他一下 類似像這樣不過回過頭來講 因為一個是有薪一個無薪那就要看企業主一定會考量成本如果薪資是保險給付的跟是他要去負擔的 當然這中間就會有不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
290.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
308.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以我想這一題主要是這個人性的分析站在就是說雖然好像是從僱主的角度去看但是這個直接受害或受惠的就是要請假的勞工所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
311.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
329.407 |
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因為其實因為我們現在在討論因為我們把家庭照顧假跟這個長照安排假把它分開那分開會有分開的問題好那所以也為什麼分開今天衛福部就必須得坐在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
330.228 |
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348.879 |
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好那但是因為日本整個是把它放在一起那這個範圍擴大了就其實在程序上仔細去研究其實可能是可以掃掉很多不必要的困擾好所以所以我就點出來這樣子啦就認真想一想 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
349.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
368.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好這個很簡單就是雇主的心態是什麼因為我們要推動這個那你一定要知道人家的心態人家的想法人家的問題你才可以這個功無不克嘛那所以這個很簡單的問題我相信大部分的雇主如果這個有選擇的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
370.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
399.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
大部分正常的都會從這個那個沒幾星的價先給嘛這很正常啊好 池部長你可以先請回座認真聽那所以啊這個實際上的問題在於這兩種價的差別那我們光從字面上去理解一般民眾可能會搞不清楚那既然是長照安排適用的條件是不是就是說長照服務的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
400.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
412.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但是這個長照的這個中央主管機關是衛福部也是今天的苦主我們再看來安排給架的這個中央主管機關勞動部那將來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
416.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
431.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
給假的申請呢通過與否又是事業單位要去要去決定的事情但是事業單位他有沒有能力去認定長照的標準他有沒有這個能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
433.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
449.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我想他們比較會看數字那萬一不同意給假的時候那勞工呢可能又告上地方政府勞工主管機關然後又是勞檢又是開罰然後再訴願事情恐怕就是沒完沒了那 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
453.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
469.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我想我們在這裡很單純我可以去預期預見一些未來可能發生的狀況那我不知道部長的這個看法是怎樣你們這樣看起來到底是在解決問題造福民眾還是最後又製造一堆問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
471.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
494.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
跟委員說明其實現在關於這個長照安排價這個概念跟它的範疇說實話就像今天委員會其實大家都還在討論這其實並不是對甚至還有些概念不是很清楚對就是它不是大家不是已經把它界定的很清楚就像剛剛時務長說的你是要針對這個一個家庭它的長照初次長照安排來給還是那後面的其他呢還是如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
496.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
510.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個有一個勞工說他想要自己回去照顧長輩那這要給嗎所以他的涵蓋的範疇跟適用的範疇其實還在大家還在討論這其實還在還在計時管理的過程所以還沒有那麼快就界定 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
511.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
537.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
對我另外再拋出一個問題這個你們可能大家都沒有想到就是說我們是不是要再考慮這樣的假這樣的補貼對於這個家人沒有長照安排的需求然後是不是會產生不公平的現象增加30天六成薪那延伸出來的勞務呢可能就要有沒有申請的這些有上有每天去上班的勞工朋友去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
538.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
560.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
或者甚至雇主自己要下海去做這都是有可能那勢必會增加其他人的工時和工作量那換句話說是不是對於不申請或者沒有申請需求的勞工朋友變成是一種變相的這個懲罰性條款因為他事情變多嘛可是他錢沒有變多啊還是還是你們有想說勞動部有 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
562.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
588.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
有會去想這個配套對於工作量增加要去share請假的人的工作的這些人那我們是不是有什麼樣的配套第一個當然是謝謝委員的提醒但不過的確這整個議題其實他的評估跟研議其實還沒有走到現在委員講的這個段落那目前其實還在比較前期的需求的掌握跟評估了解的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
590.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
605.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那當然各界的聲音因為有些會期望有些也會有一些覺得要注意的事情那我覺得這些事情都應該被綜合的思考跟討論所以今天我們的這個我們的質詢其實也是本席也提出很多的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
606.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
634.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好那我想這個很多都是兩面刃的問題那我覺得身為部長你應該要可以預見未來你會面臨到什麼當我們要做一個決策的時候那你有一個好的配套如果說今天來share的share掉其他請假同仁的這些工作的同仁那他們可以有獲得比較好的這個怎麼樣的獎勵或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
635.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
658.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
一些津貼那當然我想對其他人是比較公平但是這些錢要從哪裡出還是要從僱主被扒一層皮再出一次好 這個都是大家要去思考的那本席要強調的是就是說讓有需要的請假的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
660.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
683.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
讓有需要的人去請假那特別是這個勞動領域的這個假是兩面任務問題但這也是非常專業而且很嚴肅的課題啦假要怎麼給怎麼放不僅涉及到這個工時的彈性調整也影響到整個經濟的發展那如何兼顧同樣的就是說你怎麼樣兩邊都顧得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
684.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
706.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我想同样的价对于这个热单滚滚的这些产业影响到了这个产能不足的问题对于这个关税冲击然后订单减少不得不采取减班休息的产业他们可能也会增加这个人事成本负担然后影响到企业的生存那企业无法生存的时候他最后 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
708.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
735.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
回過頭來傷害到的吃虧的還是勞工過去我們是為了勞工的七天假已經付出社會很慘痛的代價所以不得不慎重就是說我們98%都是中小企業那企業內有沒有能力去因應也是需要去思考評估的你不能說你沒有任何評估然後就貿然立刻行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
736.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
763.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好那最後呢本席還是要回到就是說現有的這個家庭照顧價的這個實施成效去講啊那請問勞動部114年家庭照顧價的這個申請的人數或比例是多少那個跟我們報告我們114年統計那個調查員工有意願申請家庭照顧價是4.2%那沒有沒有意願沒有需求家庭照顧價是95.8% |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
766.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
793.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以不到不到一成這是我們的調查這是醫院的調查並不是實際上面的狀況那有沒有什麼指標來衡量就是說7天的家庭照顧假不夠了那需要再延長然後需要去擠薪有沒有跟跟委員說明第一個因為當然外界很多討論家庭照顧假要不要擠薪的問題那可是擠薪的話就會分兩個第一個是要由僱主出還是要由政府出 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
795.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
815.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那如果不由雇主出的話是要由政府出的話那是當然所需要的費用其實這個所需要的經費就蠻龐大的那這的確會需要考慮目前政府的一些相關的財政負擔能力的問題我想在這邊再跟你們問個資料啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
815.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
843.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
因為我們現在正在執行的這個勞動政策那政策執行好不好需不需要調整勞動部都有責任跟義務就是說讓我們全國民眾來了解嘛那這其中12歲以下的幼童跟年長的這個照顧請假的比例你們清楚嗎有沒有資料12歲的幼童跟年長照顧的比例你說為了這事情而請假還是我們可能要再調一下資料看一下有沒有這樣相關的統計手上有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
845.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
865.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你們有算有有統計過嗎如果沒有就說沒有 我的意思是說顧老跟顧小把它給分開來看的話他的比例大概多少我們可能要再調一下資料你們有沒有做過這樣的統計有或沒有你們可以我們就是現在是有三歲六歲的受雇人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
866.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
883.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那個時間的關係你們這個後續因為跟你們要這個是不知道你們有沒有統計過因為我們在外面也看不到這樣的統計資料如果沒有也希望你們這個部分要好好去看一下那希望勞動部可以釐清所謂的家庭照顧跟長照 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
884.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
902.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
安排有什麼差別那如果勞動部認為說支持長照安排價確實有需要那你們有責任告訴全國的民眾全國的產業界跟勞工朋友現行的家庭照顧價不足因應長照服務的需求了那未來兩種價是不是要整併還是有優先順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
906.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
915.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好 先请完家庭照顾假再来请长照安排假这也是值得你们去研究的议题所以希望你们劳动部可以谋定而后动谢谢 |