| IVOD_ID |
167956 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167956 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-26T10:25:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-26T11:00:06+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:34:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/62ea4221ea272c4e13f9a15262c294cec30e9bbc489b48f6144d5468a2b72bfd4e59da5588efa9b45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林淑芬 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:25:39 - 11:00:06 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部長及勞動部部長就「在職照顧者支持體系是否完善、長照3.0服務輸送與長照安排假評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月25日及26日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
2.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
7.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 謝謝主席 是不是請我們洪部長有請洪部長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
34.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個你們開放了12歲以下有小孩的家庭就可以直接申請這個外籍幫傭那剛才你很多委員問了那你說你們評估很久事實上也真的評估很久了那我現在問你們你們到底做了什麼評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
36.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
51.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
具體的你們評估至少去年我問你你就說你們正在評估至少在你沒上任以前他們也說他們在評估了在勞動部而言已經評估很久沒有兩年三年也很多年了那你可以具體告訴我你們評估多久了然後評估什麼結果報告來了可以告訴我們嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
58.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
81.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
其實在這幾個月裡面我們第一個還是要先去掌握到底有沒有這個需求或需求的樣態是怎麼樣我現在要問你說你們做了失業衝擊評估了嗎我們其實對於包括他可能會對於這個托育的人員或者是家事的人員其實可能會有會不會對於你先回答我有多少家事服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
82.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
99.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
員的從業人員多少的居家保姆多少終點家事工終點替人家煮飯打掃的你先告訴我有多少從業人員再來告訴我你們評估這幾年了不是幾個月你沒上任以前他們也說他們在評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
100.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
105.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那評估這麼久的衝擊是多大?跟文說明,第一個,家事從業人員是1.3萬人家事從業人員1.3萬,居家保姆多少人?居家保姆大概2.8萬人終點家事打掃的還有煮飯的多少?家事從業人員是1.3萬1.3萬,你們從以前就這樣講,其實不止耶現在多少廣告都在講說,我倒是來幫你煮飯耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
127.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
130.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你們關於這個評估怎麼統計 你告訴我統計資料怎麼統計這個結果居家是2.8萬你要告訴我 到底是怎麼統計的跟委員補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
142.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
154.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
到宅的就是到家裡去服務的保姆大概是三千的我不是講保姆保姆就是知道啦保姆大概就是全部就是居家保姆就有證照的兩三萬我們都知道啦我在問他的是勞動領域的啦我們其實是從相關的職業公會這邊那你們做的時候衝擊會有多少嗎會有多大嗎委員這確實是要看到時候申請的量有多少所以你們都沒有做出具體的衝擊評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
171.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
178.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那你們做了性別影響評估了 沒 因為性平衛教學你們不做你們做了兒童最佳權利的評估了嗎 沒 沒聽過有做嗎 我們相關的評估都有在做 是報告還沒寫出來都沒有寫出來 那你們看過報告了嗎 有其中的 有final的報告出來了嗎沒有最終的版本 性別影響評估我們會在下一次的性平衛會 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
失業衝擊報告也沒有寫出來性偏小評估的報告也沒有寫出來兒童最佳利益的評估也還沒有寫出來然後你們就直接就開放了我現在問你就說你都不知道有多大衝擊評估都不知道你就開放了現在我問你說守法是基本的嘛你知道我們的外勞政策最要緊的是要守住哪一個哪一條嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
224.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
227.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
本國人的就業權利我們是以補充為原則不能夠產生替代那是救福法第42條42條那他有沒有產生替代我現在告訴你說如果外籍看護工這個在長照的領域絕對絕對是補充原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
260.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
但是在家事 班庸還有顧小孩的這個領域絕對絕對是衝擊原則產生了替代了 替代原則了這是違法的 我跟你講 這是違法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
267.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
292.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那我覺得更看不懂開放外籍幫傭你們的次長李建宏說提升生育率勞參率不是政策目標因為因為脫盟啊其他社會的那個社運團體啊還有公民團體啊他們質疑開放家庭幫傭是沒有辦法提高女性的勞參率和生育率甚至在新加坡生育率是下降的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
當他們這麼說的時候 李建宏市長說提升生育率跟勞參率 婦女的勞參率不是我們的政策目標那請問你 保證我剛才問你這個不是你的目標 你的政策目標是什麼我跟委員說明 第一個我們其實在這個政策裡面最重要的幾個目標第一個是希望讓勞工 尤其雙薪家庭的勞工可以減少離職 安心上班 這是第一個第二個是家庭減壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
337.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有人因為12歲的小孩以下會離職的就是女性欸 沒聽過是男性啦幾乎很少啦 爸爸有 很少啦大多數都是女性啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
338.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
344.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以你不要講說雙薪家庭 你要講說女性女性的勞參率大幅下降托盟已經講過N變了我們也講過N變 兩個階段一個是小孩 一個是就救孩子再來就是職場的第二個滑坡就是救孫 把孩子帶走全部都是救孩子而這數十年來我們把 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
379.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個照顧的政策這樣一步一步整個公民社會整個台灣的政府一步一步的就把這些照顧的責任再往良好的公共政策把照顧公共化 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
380.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
397.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們透過育兒的政策照顧假的政策留職停薪的政策然後未來也有很多人在講要有薪無薪的照顧假等等配套一直進來然後你們不是在什麼育兒補貼嗎政府的現金補貼不是也都進來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
401.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
416.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們一步一步在往這個公共照顧化公共化照顧的方向在前進而你今天這個政策其實在鼓勵大家說不用了有錢的就自己買照顧家庭化付費化然後自己買單所以整個整個照顧的政策走回頭路啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
430.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
438.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對不對我可以說明嗎你的政策目標是在大開30年往公共化的照顧政策的反方向咧我們比方說育嬰留庭的彈性已日傾現在也是我們大力正在推動的未來也希望能夠擴大研議現在很多如果如果外籍邦傭進來我請教你他可不可以顧小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
460.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他當然可以輔助性的會參與一些小孩的這個照料餵飯等等這都很有可能的你們的社家屬衛福部的社家屬張美美副署長說外傭只會是家長的幫手家長在的時候是由家長負責照顧責任啊你們不是說要減輕女性的勞動力勞工的這個家庭負擔嗎啊家庭在我都上完班下班了累死了我要怎麼顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
489.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
499.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
以增加女性 留住女性勞參率為前提去開放然後你說家長在的時候就要自己顧這樣子有減輕女性的負擔嗎我下班了家長沒有上班大家就送到這個托嬰或是保母或是托育機構或是學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
515.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
543.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那我下班了就自己顧下班再來的時候就回來很累還要顧所以就很累但你們現在說這個政策是只要你在家顧小孩這個幫庸是不能顧的這不是到底是要顧還是不能顧我們不是說不能顧其實應該是它的確是一個比較輔助性的可是的確我們在這個評估的過程我們也看到有蠻多不同的樣態我現在就是說你們在這裡都是睜眼說瞎話其實都是全部交給外傭顧啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
545.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
552.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
老實說就全部丟給外傭誰不知道現在長照制度裡面說是要照顧失能的誰不知道家事啦 煮飯全部都是那個外籍移工要做大家都知道 你說自己家庭幫傭不是照顧小孩的騙笑的嘛 沒可能嘛可是我要講你們不是把這個照顧公共化的政策走回頭路而已你們還把顧小孩連保母顧小孩都要正照制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
574.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
575.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你連顧小孩都認為不需要專業連語言都不需要專業了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
581.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
607.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
顧小孩 外傭顧他的語文能力 連這個都不需要顧及了然後呢 保姆要政造制度你們也不用了依據兒少權法保姆居家室托育服務提供者應向各地方政府主管機關辦理登記然後沒有的話是不行的 不能顧小孩的現在是外籍幫傭 外傭就可以顧小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
608.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個是連照顧小孩、托育制度都在走回頭路欸我現在講說你們有做出兒童最佳利益的評估嗎在這裡勞動力被取代了然後托育政策走走回頭路然後整體三數十年來努力的照顧公共化也走回頭路 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
638.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
653.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
保定你到底承不承認會不會對本國就業會造成失業衝擊啊我們會在這個我們會有一定的就業政策的支持所以你承認是有衝擊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
655.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
665.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
當然如果沒有任何配套的話或多或少都會有一點影響怎麼或多或少會有一點影響但是這是為什麼我們要訂定配套來設家屬你們政策公佈以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
669.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
676.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
社家屬雖然是衛福部的馬上開了一個會3月23號叫大家來開會開會是通3月23發文3月24就要開開了一個因應勞動部外籍幫傭政策的相關配套專案會議這個會議在講什麼這個會議在講勞動部的業務裡面最核心就是在講 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
698.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
701.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
居家托育人員多元就業獎勵計畫所以你們知道說這個會受影響嗎會直接衝擊到本國就業嗎所以我們要提就職職的方案你是無可替代到非開放不可嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
720.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
743.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
沒有就都沒人做了嗎 現在先行就是有人做有錢人請會去外邦傭的 現在也是請本國邦傭在做啦你自己說我開放外國邦傭 他更爽 有錢人家庭 因為更有薪金請不上去的 因為我也是請不上去來 恐受影響 所以你們明明知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
745.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
767.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這一些不管是顧小孩的終點家事的幫忙倒載煮飯的倒載打掃的保姆還有保姆爸爸保姆我請問你如果一般人失業可以領失業給付他們這些人可不可以領如果被外籍幫傭來取代掉了他們可不可以領失業給付如果當然是失業的話當然都可以領失業給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
774.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
778.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那是要有雇主的啦那這些人有雇主嗎不要不食人間煙火在你們開放這個政策就會受衝擊會失業會被取代掉的人他們都是投保在 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
792.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
807.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
職業公會哪一個是有雇主的我們有評估過第一個他其實不是一個失業的邏輯基本上他可能會比方說有可能假設都沒有配套的話他可能確實會有一些服務的實施那你的配套是什麼你配套就是這個難就業安定基金給獎勵金不是嗎你們24號召集大家你們評估的就是8000人受益就是你們評估8000人會受失業會失業嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
821.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
838.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以計劃錢就來自於就業安定基金嘛就是你們評估失業了要給獎勵金前一頁你們就是要給獎勵金嘛跟文說明就業安定基金不是只是因為他失業而是他可能包括他勞務上面包括各種的需求我們都知道啦還再去轉職訓練啦總而言之 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
843.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
846.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
如果你沒有開放這些外籍幫傭不會衝擊到他的就業他不會失業 他都用不著你我可以自己賺錢我幹嘛還需要去領你那多少錢啊你能夠給多久你能夠給多久 再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
860.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
873.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這一些從業人員居多包括保姆包括家事服務工終點的服務工到宅煮飯的很多都是本來就是二度就業的而且都是婦女的從業人員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
876.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
892.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你讓他們在這裡再失業一次你覺得他們還會再轉業嗎不是中高齡轉業 是高齡再轉業他們會 大家都知道轉職再轉職 越轉越往下往下流的地方流啦我是覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
899.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
913.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
一邊說不會被取代掉不是失業不是被取代掉然後你在這邊說我一邊要規劃他們轉職補助還有其他就業訓練轉職訓練還有其他的你剛剛講還要其他所以你的意思其實就是到底承不承認對本國的從業人員真的造成失業衝擊明明就是失業衝擊你在這裡還要講說沒有不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
928.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
945.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
跟文說明第一個當然如果都沒有任何配套的話確實會獲得你的配套就是失業以後我給你配套來承擔我們更多的在就業上面的支持其實更多是希望能夠擴展他勞務的機會而不一定一定是他是失業以後才擴展他勞務的機會就是讓這個市場變大 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
952.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
960.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那我問你 如果這個市場有需求 有能力負擔我會早不請晚不請 你說現在找便宜的我跟你講真的有這麼便宜嗎如果可以請外勞 終點加外勞 我早就想要請了 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
968.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
977.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我幹嘛等到你開放你說因為開放以後會比較便宜你一定說比較便宜所以他會請得起嘛你的理由是這樣嘛我現在要告訴你我們當時而且你也同意在國民黨修法要開放80歲以上全部開放外籍看護的時候長照失能的時候我們當時就講你也這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
991.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1017.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
整個外籍移工的就業市場供給遠遠小於需求供給遠遠小於需求 當你開放了在顧小孩 在做家事的這邊的幫傭如果不是144萬的需求 五分之一就好了二十幾萬的需求 就跟你再評估八十幾歲 八十歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1020.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1047.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這個開放外籍看護一樣我們評估二十幾萬人有這個需求就好了 同樣的邏輯他會不會照 我不要講說全部就馬上沒工啦大家寧可去當家事幫傭 外籍醫工大家寧可去顧小孩誰要去顧長照的失能的重度癱瘓的 沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1048.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1056.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
如果移工他如果可以選擇可以轉換雇主他一定馬上說我要換去雇小孩誰要雇這個癱瘓在那裡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1058.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1065.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
而且這個市場供給小於需求所以需求面 你開放了 需求面擴大了那麼市場的價格就會上漲了大家都知道這個價格已經上漲了還沒有開放外籍家庭幫傭的時候已經上漲我再問你一件事開放外籍幫傭要不要適用勞基法你可不可以回答我 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1084.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1108.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這一些在幹顧長照的都不用適用勞基法沒有得到勞基法的勞動權益勞動條件的保障那我再問你在幹顧小孩家庭幫傭的這一些外籍移工外籍幫傭要不要適用勞基法你在這裡回答我目前就法規上面家事移工是沒有適用勞基法 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1109.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1118.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
他是因為長照那個是政策上的管制現在我問你現在家庭當庸你還是要繼續讓他不適用可是即便因為大家適用了勞動力就沒那麼便宜了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1124.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1143.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那大家要問你 你都以前就知道的在家事服務的領域裡面 在私領域裡面長期都有勞動條件上的不公平 甚至剝削的情形你以前當立委的時候 在這裡也大家的撻伐過的你講過的 那這個事情你還是要維持不適用勞基法 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1150.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1160.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
你覺得這樣子,這樣子的糾紛會不會更多現在,現在我給大家講齁你不要以為不是用勞基法比較便宜,沒有因為大家的玩家越來越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1161.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1165.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
因為呢 我不想要顧這個土地的牙師 我要顧勤課的孩子家事幫傭的 你不要給我照 我就每天跟你玩遊戲然後這個衝突 衝突就把照顧的責任丟給家庭自行去買單家裡面你自己請外籍幫傭的 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1184.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1195.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
失能的老人 外籍班傭跟僱主 大家要自己去承擔 情緒也有負擔然後政府雙手一攤說 這個跟我無關 到我無關的 我都不用去煩惱這個政府什麼都不用做 就要自己是僱主跟外籍看護跟沒辦法的失能的被照顧者 現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1211.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1233.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
現在這個吵架會吵得更嚴重我在這裡可以告訴大家因為你又開放了可以顧小孩大家更想轉職但我們的法規規定不可以轉換雇主要雙方合一才可以所以每天跟你玩玩到有一天你雇主受不了啊你終於就說 好吧 放你走吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1236.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1246.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
請問 那未來長照顧詩能的長期躺在那裡 重度的誰人要顧 外籍幫傭 外籍移工真的遠遠不絕嗎保證你回答我 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1251.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1267.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
跟委員說我們第一個在這個外籍看護工或外籍幫傭上面其實即便他是在家庭裡面的權利其實我們都希望接下來我們其實也透過相關的這個雇主的手冊或各種其實盡力的希望來去做維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1268.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1273.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
你現在做保釣也很厲害 做官也很厲害你現在空位跟以前做立委都不一樣我現在說 其實你如果說 喔 誠實的告訴社會我這個衝擊有多大 當然我準備怎麼做 那 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1285.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1289.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這個對兒童的權益會有影響什麼那你們還會怎麼做那如果對這個性別影響是什麼我準備怎麼接起來那我們還可以在你們心裡面想說至少這是一個負責任的套路我還沒講完嘛第一個對於他可能會在跟中國工作者 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1307.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1322.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
跟針對本國工作者上面可能的工作的影響的部分我們會跟衛福部這邊來擬一整套的計畫來去支持本國工作者在勞務上面市場的開拓衛福部其實是喔老實說是你們過程下他們就下了啦我現在要說衛福部也有啦欸 抱歉 兒童托育服務法不用立得這麼嚴了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1329.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1335.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
整個法還在立法院協商我跟各位來用心跟三更半夜跟整個開好開滿然後說嚴格管制保姆然後居家托兒要怎麼規範一邊強度的規範托育然後在這裡立法要很高強度的管理一邊要放寬沒有訓練的外籍幫傭來育兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1356.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1359.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這個政府在那裡兩個政策在那裡打架啦所以說這個我們的托育服務法還需要這麼嚴格嗎還沒立法嘛 還在審嘛 在協商嘛通通都開放那這個道理對本國提供托育服務的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1373.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1386.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這麼高強度的管制要求這麼多要受訓考證照登記審核要層層把關才能夠提供托育服務但是外籍幫傭連語言溝通都有問題沒有相關訓練資格訓練然後本國人資格門檻被檢查被高度要求外籍幫傭通通都不用這個這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1397.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1402.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這樣子我從來沒有聽過說本籍的比外籍的還更嚴格的同時大家在講話外籍比本籍管得更嚴格我們現在回到本籍的管得嚴外籍的管得寬這沒有違反兒童最佳利益嗎還要從嚴立法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1422.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1427.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
對不對光是顧小孩是這樣子那再來講說這個在這種狀況裡面性別平等 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1435.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1460.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
你們在講我剛剛講說事實上我們台灣整體社會包括政府把公共照顧服務往前推這麼多已經推這麼多了我們也希望透過公共政策繼續解決家務勞動還有育兒性別不平等的問題那政府也當時一路走來都被迫但也始終是站在往前推進的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1462.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1474.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
結果現在你開放了這種外籍幫傭你不願意再繼續改善你的公共政策然後面對資源的制度人力多方面缺失的問題你用這種併擠亂投一的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1478.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1497.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我們公共托育或者是托育的政策我們還是大力的正在做你現在選擇一個最便宜的最階級化的最可能改善剝削的然後最不可以致力於改善公共照顧服務品質配置化的我們也大力的在支持企業去投入到托育相關的政策裡面包括公共托育的部分這都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1498.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1517.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
一直在做 甚至更大力的那我問你我們一直在 你也說我們在做長照啊然後你一直開放外籍看護啊有外籍看護我還需要去使用你的長照嗎我還在乎你的長照嗎我有家庭幫傭顧小孩我還需要你的公共托育嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1519.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1538.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以我們訪談到很多他表達需要外籍幫助他一樣會把小孩送托我現在跟你講就是說他一樣會把小孩送托當政府選擇一種最階級化最可能產生剝削的做法而對於不願致力於改善公共你現在這樣是有多少買得起的人才能夠這樣子呢買不起的人呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1544.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1556.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以我們講公共照顧要服務的其實是買不起的所以公共照顧他的品質要普及化他的價格要可敬性為什麼要可敬性 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1558.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1579.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
他的服務的可敬性是大家都知道因為因為一般人沒有辦法有那種能力嘛而你現在這個開放家庭幫兇也不是一般人有辦法的啦這是在鞏固有錢人才能享有的育兒喘息的特權如果在這裡我們不要講特權抱歉我更正我講錯了這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1582.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1604.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
鞏固就是說有錢才買得起的走回頭路有錢的自己買工沒錢的自求多福這是家庭自行買單啊那我們是想一直以來都把國家把政府拉進來來減少女性的家務的負擔為什麼不是在制度面上設計說你應該有一個設計男性共同來參與家務然後或者是說對盤點0到12歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1610.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1626.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
各公共托育客戶照顧資源減少資源落差改進這個服務品質或是我們一直在講說把育嬰假變成這個家庭那個照顧變成照顧假然後開放到8歲然後一小時你們有了但你們現在只到3歲嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1627.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1644.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我們這部分在研議要擴大啊那也是讓更多的男性其實已經投入了啊這部分的做法跟政策我們一直在有錢推進啊那甚至是推出完善的有心家庭照顧就好現在來了現在就你們第一個不願意重新分配第二個政府的資源不願意再投入所以你現在選一個最簡單的有錢開放有錢的可以買社會的反彈壓力小 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1649.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1672.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
政府的資源跟政策一樣在推進如果開放二十幾萬人可以請家庭搬佣他可能對於育兒的辛苦或是家務的辛苦他就分擔了那反彈的聲音就降低了要求公共政策提供的聲浪也會下降所以在這裡是 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1673.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1695.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
你們直接開放讓高收入的家庭直接向全球南方國家購買廉價的勞動力啦所以這個照顧私有化的手段來規避照顧資源分配不均導致的社會不平等這個就是 這個是團體認為的啦所謂的不負責任啦 不負責任啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1696.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1713.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
真的是不負責任 連在友善職場的部分包括製度的部分我們現在也在擴大 正在研議以日傾的育嬰留庭 希望往前再推進包括資源的投入也更多包括托育的資源 包括企業托育的部分我們也都是更大力在做這部分不會改變 而且只會做得更多這個方向不會改變的開放到8歲 以小時計算我不是跟你講 我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1724.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1743.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
育嬰留庭合併計算進來我們目前就是希望能夠你們都不願意了3歲的部分我們就希望現在正在研議朝擴大的方向在研議這事情我已經在幾個幾週前其實我也跟大家報告過了目前就是往這個方向在研議中那這個要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1746.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1763.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我現在就告訴你你們在這種狀況裡面一直研議你們所有東西都是研議包括我剛剛講的衝擊你們也是研議你還沒上任以前也是在研議然後現在什麼研議這麼多年通通都沒有你現在在告訴我們說我們會繼續研議我們朝向更大幅的開放沒有啊你們現在的我剛剛講的這個包括已日請的這個這個照顧我們要一小時啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1774.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1783.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
整個總體時數沒有變 天數沒有變價格也沒有增加預算然後就讓你開放成幾個小時 你都不願意了 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
1784.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
1810.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我認真不是不認真我們是一步一步再往前做對嘛我們之前三歲以前我們會把它擴大讓這個照顧的友善程度可以大幅改善的你們是牛步話然後讓家庭自己有錢家庭自己去買工沒錢的自求多福的馬上開放我們沒有牛步話目前一日請的部分才上路兩個月我們就一直在研議把它擴大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
1812.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
1815.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我們呼籲了幾年啦第一個 年紀要到幾歲因為很多職場的滑坡 勞動力滑坡就是經常經常 孩子不是只有讓他長大讓他吃飯 讓他讀書要陪伴或是生病了 要到學校去這是我們在考慮的有心家庭照顧假 你給不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
1834.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
1862.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
你們雇主也不願意負擔政府不可能編列這個預算那我們就把這個育嬰留庭的假日整個天數都沒有動讓他友善到可以8歲然後以小時為計你們通通就講我們繼續研議你們說你們開放到天了王偉聖在那裡啦他知道這樣一路走來已經很多年了很多年了不叫牛布化那叫什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
1863.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
1874.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
目前上路才兩三個月 那是我們推動很多年以後你才正式回應我們的第一次回應在你上路以前我們推動很多年啊 是啊所以我們接下來 政府是被推動的 不是政府主動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
1884.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
1899.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
希望能夠讓這個政策的擴大跟彈性都能夠再往前進這個我們非常非常認真的看待這個數據我們很務實的跟你講會提升婦女勞動參與率然後很務實跟你講不增加雇主的支出總時數沒有變彈性化 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
1902.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
1908.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我就不曉得你們就是在還試辦的時候你還沒上任試辦的時候黃偉生還找那個輪班三班制的去試辦還失敗因為三班制一個蘿蔔一個坑當然失敗那是因為你上任我承認因為你上任所以你push他要先試辦再試辦一次友善的直接上路現在不是試辦現在已經正式上路那現在是以天為計 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
1927.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
1949.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
是 已經正式上路了 而且成效很不錯那我們 當然喔 有需求喔那我們跟你講 更友善 年齡要擴散 擴大然後呢 時數就是以小時為止我們有往這個擴大的方向 目前正在規劃跟研議這個東西只是一小小步 還用自己的育嬰留庭的價 按天數 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
1951.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
1976.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那個只是我們勞工自己的天數你現在這一個你就在拿我們勞工裡面的來給我邀功不需要只是希望你們彈性化但我們希望的是政府應該做的是更多而更多並不是你台放外籍幫傭那個是有錢人才買得起的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
1978.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
1985.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那個是家庭自己買工沒有買不起的人買不起的人 這個政策有什麼可敬性 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
1986.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
2015.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
買不起的人這個政策與我有何干啊所以不同的對象其實就像來你看這個我跟你講這個對誰最有利喔仲介業來馬上我的朋友就LINE來了我的朋友馬上就LINE來了仲介第一時間開放宣誓政策的時候仲介打電話來來你看這個放大這個怎麼沒有喔最後一個啦我今天接到電話咧家裡有12歲小孩可以請家庭家事照顧外勞啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
2018.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
2037.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
馬上仲介一一打電話給有12歲以下的家庭的父母很多人接到很多人接到仲介等著要接所以我們第一時間就回覆他沒有人要照顧老人了沒有人要照顧老人了怎麼辦仲度失能的老人怎麼辦大家都想我要家庭幫傭了 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
2045.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
2056.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那外籍義工不願意照顧老人 怎麼辦這不是你的業務 這衛福部的業務這個沒關係 吵架也不是你們承擔是那個家裡面的僱主要承擔所以現在是國家怎樣 雙手一攤有錢去威威 用這個就好了好 謝謝好 謝謝淑芬委員 |