| IVOD_ID |
167952 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167952 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-26T10:33:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-26T10:43:30+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/62ea4221ea272c4e07fc87f957fb01951db4e8dc12ee02550f073324919e7b6e486914daaa45fd855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:33:09 - 10:43:30 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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接下來我們請鍾嘉賓委員質詢主席在場委員先進 列席的政府局長 市長 官員 會長 工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生 那麼有請陳主委有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.533 |
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主委好最近你常常被問到公平會就是要問到說Grab要收購台灣的Hupenda請問一下你知道嗎這個Hupenda的最大股東是Uber嗎我知道他雖然沒有照過一半但是如果Grab跟Uber之間存在著交叉持股那算不算Uber繞道來併購這個Hupenda呢 |
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重點還是在於他掌握的那個13.5的股權能夠影響到Grab什麼程度所以強調是實質的控制力這個我們會在審查當中注意但是除了這個之後我們關心的又是下一個就是AI聊天機器人竟然未來可能投放廣告你看媒體報導的很大ChapGPT拓財源要推廣告服務我就很好奇ChapGPT要怎麼推廣告服務呢我記得28年前有一個電影叫楚門的世界諸位有沒有看過 |
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這裡面的電影呢只有一個人是不知情的其他都是演員對不對包括演他太太的還會在觀眾收看這個直播這個情境實境節目的時候呢會看到他推銷廣告是不是這樣子好那我們消費者看電影的人看楚門世界的人都知道那個是一個廣告但是只有看的只有楚門自己不知道但是現在的ChipGP電影在今年2月開始試著投放我們來看一下 |
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我們對這種事情有沒有管制 網紅的業配有管制譬如說 我這個 主委有沒有看過我的直播沒有是正常的 因為我的直播實在沒有很多人看連小咖的網紅都稱不上但是你們公評會有對於見證廣告的規範做 有沒有要求 |
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見證型的 有嗎 你們有做過嗎 因為我每次直播都吃播我立法院附近買了小吃 邊吃邊說這個好不好吃 這個怎麼樣 立法三寶啊那我是不是專業人士 我至少吃 還算有研究嘛 對不對那我有沒有跟他有利益的關係的介入 要啊如果這個東西要送我的 請他幫我講好話 幫他講好話我要知道說這個鄉親送我這個很好吃的這個什麼米 這個蠻好吃的我們在直播可不可以這樣做 |
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可以嗎就是符合這個我們就符合這個嘛所以公民會會審查對不對會如果這符合這個好啦那現在如果AI用更隱密更針對性的方式投放我們要看譬如說一般民眾他唱AI去幹嘛資料查詢嘛像我去查楚門的世界或者聊天嘛跟聊天機的人講話甚至用它來製作一些影音那 |
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174.689 |
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閱聽者使用者他心裡是怎麼想他說AI至少是中立客觀的對不對他提供了給我的資訊至少是他掌握的資訊雖然有人說深層是AI是一本正經的胡說八道但是至少他應該只是自己胡說八道而已他不會幫人家刻意的去引導幫業主企業主去影響我現在AI的深層是內容如果有廣告組有企業主要求他去做廣告有沒有目前對他的強制介入或標示的規定 |
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那我也問的問題涉及到兩個問題第一個就是說從公平會執法機關的角度來看我們如何去確認這個廣告是AI做的這個是一個不是 他的意思說你AI接受我的廣告之後你在AI生成的內容上幫閱聽大眾提供更多我要請你提供的資訊嘛 |
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222.964 |
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233.486 |
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譬如問他說這個台灣哪裏的紅豆最好吃結果我們萬丹農會有跟AI說我跟你買個廣告你第一個就說屏東萬丹的紅豆最好吃 |
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234.67 |
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可不可以所以我剛剛談的就是說確認AI的意思就是說因為廣告到我們這邊來我們第一次看到的就是廣告那我們要確認說這個廣告是人播的AI提供的真實內容他不會說這是廣告因為你問他嘛所以我們要問的說這個以後會不會產生說只要有大的企業他對這些好往下看這三家最大的真實是AI的平台我說我給你下廣告請你們機器人在回答問題的時候多講我的好話可不可以 |
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263.888 |
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那如果說背後是有人在做這樣的操作的話那當然就是他對AI的訓練就是操作啊所以這個有可能會跟我們的見證廣告是有關係所以這個時候你們去查有沒有企業對這三大平台投放廣告請他們訓練他們的機器人AI機器人要多說他的好話那你們要去查他們對價關係你查得到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
284.565 |
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我跟委員報告一下因為現在我們從最近開始我們在網路的這個廣告的監控上我們已經加入AI的監測你也用AI來監測嗎不是AI監測是委託我們在監測我們是外包給外面的機關來幫我們用魔法對付魔法對對對然後我們有特別要求他必須要針對AI這件事情來是所以我要告訴你說這三大平台如果開始接受業主投放廣告的時候我們問AI的問題可能背後你就要就查清楚他有沒有這個問題尤其這個平台如果是寡占呢 |
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312.719 |
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他的演算法是黑箱呢譬如說科技巨頭他掌握這三大平台我中小店家沒有地方可以投放廣告因為只有你們三個AI嘛所以我的廣告溢價權就一面倒嘛你說我要投放廣告多少錢就多少錢我要推銷萬彈的紅豆你說這個要兩百萬我拿不出兩百萬我就不能推銷萬彈的紅豆 是不是這樣子是 我們會在公平法的架構還有在處理原則裡面去做電信調查好 那再往下看那其實還有一個叫LINE |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
339.229 |
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LINE其實也不過是一個 你會說聊天軟體嗎 可是你知道它台灣的滲透率是多少嗎99.7%耶 是所有最高的 你可以參加什麼它是台灣的超級平台什麼時候呢 它可以幫你做社交聯絡 還可以貼圖禮物還有金融服務 還有電子支付 LINE Pay還有商業應用 還有影音漫畫 還有甚至連視訊醫療現在衛福部建立的跨醫生視訊醫療如果你派到好愛工作了兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
366.306 |
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390.956 |
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可是你這時候要回來看醫生或者說你慢性病處房間三個月到期了你可以怎麼辦你可以在海外利用當地的聯網然後透過LINE然後連接中華電信然後去跟台灣的醫院看病拿藥LINE很厲害耶 是不是這樣可是我們有辦法避開嗎現在你可以避開生活中避開LINE嗎你就算避得開你周邊的人避不開啊那它是不是構成了壓倒性的優勢是不是構成了獨佔 |
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393.579 |
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我想剛剛委員講的是正確就是社交至少在這個生態系當中當然LINE是以它的社交這個平台作為一個支點然後延伸到生態系各部分不過我們要注意的就是說在這樣的生態系當中LINE在不同的服務當中的市場力量是不一樣不是的就是因為它在每個個別的市場你都很難針對這個來說它沒有一個壟斷或壓倒性但是你在生活中LINE已經幾乎無所不包了我要用戶最多轉換的成本很高你現在叫我不要用LINE用別的我還受不了 |
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423.699 |
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還有他掌握了隱私資訊工程會要去想所以我們會看看是不是他利用這個社交聯絡的力量去做一個槓桿去把力量延伸到其他各位我們另外一個叫有線電視播放系統其實我們過去台灣為什麼有線電視的地方系統台他是把它當作準公用事業因為跟這個很像LINE的資訊流是不是要靠網路基礎設施政府提供嘛 |
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445.02 |
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那有建制嗎 沒有啊金流跟店家個人還有金融體育的金流這也是我們政府的資訊網路去提供的啊那政府在有限電視播放系統類似它的情況之下政府去進入管理喔 介入喔所以我們有限系統的執照是什麼 政府特許的嘛因為它具有準公用事業的性質我們往下看所以公平教育委員會目前你是對不公平競爭對廣告不實 你當個裁判吹哨對不對 |
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470.296 |
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491.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但是未來如果有哪一個類似像LINE這樣的超級平台它有壓倒性的優勢它能掌握絕大多數人的隱私數據它還發展多元的業務公平的解放是什麼你還能純粹在那個裁判的角度來吹哨還是必須要為了確保這個公平競爭類似像高鐵的模式政府要不要入股來協助他的公司治理 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
493.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
513.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我想委員提的這些問題都很前瞻啦但是這個可能在很多面向是跟公平會目前現在的執掌是不太符合的你目前還是裁判吹哨啦我們是事後的一個監管所以當你在監管這些之後事後監管你發現他這個趨勢的時候其實公平會不只要吹哨做判決還要吹哨做示警 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
514.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
542.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
要告訴政府 告訴社會如果CHAP GPT 深層式AI它可以接受大企業投放廣告影響到它深層的內容來給使用者的話那公平會要趕快的去了解有沒有能力用你的魔法來對付它的魔法 好不好是 是 這個我們持續再精進好 那最後問一下 人家都問我也不能不問目前通過上述 上游不供貨欸 諸位啊 這會不會有藉機囤貨烘台的可能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
543.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
570.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為像刑法251條這是法務部的執掌公平教育法當然如果囤積掌握這個東西如果說有聯合壟斷的情形當然我們公平法也可以介入這個所謂價格的波動當然25條影響教育秩序在過去我們用這個條文處理物價的問題大部分都是在一個緊急狀態我們會就是事關民生重大的產品所以我今天提供這個機會就是說要分清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
571.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
586.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
如果是延後出貨 那個囤貨過於烘台那是屬於刑法251 法務部去管那如果他透過聯合行為 立即的造成明顯的提高那才用到公交法的25條 有不一樣的分工那給你一個機會跟他說明 最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
587.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
604.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
署章 希望你嚴審這個併購案保護我們的外送員跟所有用戶的權益 好不好是 這個一定我們會詳細檢查好 那另外呢是不是比照你們的見證廣告的規範趕快去想要訂出深層式誒 誠又寫錯了深層式AI廣告的法規 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
605.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
620.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 這個我們會後再進行好 那一個月內是不是可以就LINE是不是具有壓倒性的優勢這個描述提出你們的書面報告讓我們知道在你們的公平味的眼中這個市場中LINE是不是個超級平台已經具有壓倒性的優勢可以嗎這個沒有問題好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員 |