| IVOD_ID |
16794 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16794 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-36,15-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第4次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第4次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-30T08:30:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-30T10:08:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:37:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc271ac346a99ec21cf52eba4cf25e1df47f81bba30f51cec2fd232eb3c14cd5c75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第4次聯席會議（事由：一、繼續併案審查（一）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人、（二）台灣民眾黨黨團、（三）委員張智倫等17人、（四）委員葉元之等21人及（五）委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部組織法第五條條文修正草案」案。
二、繼續併案審查（一）台灣民眾黨黨團、（二）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人、（三）國民黨黨團、（四）委員張智倫等17人、（五）委員葉元之等21人及（六）委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部新住民發展署組織法草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:43 - 10:08:00 |
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報告聯席會初席委員10人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會現在開會我們進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第三會期司法及法制內政委員會第三次聯席會議議事錄時間中華民國114年6月19日星期四上午9時至12時18分 |
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地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員黃國昌委員等25人列席委員鄭天才委員等5人請教委員黃建斌委員1人列席官員內政部常務次長吳唐安等人主席吳兆基委員宗憲報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項1並按審查委員鄭天才等21人擬拒內政部組織法第5條條文修正草案等5案 |
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二 病案審查台灣民眾黨黨團 拟據內政部新住民發展署組織法草案等六案本次會議由委員黃國昌等21人提出質詢委員牛許廷 吳啟明提出書面質詢決議一 報告及詢答完畢二 第一案及第二案均另定期繼續審查三 委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本聯席會宣讀完畢 |
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好 那個議事錄部分我們稍後再處理那我們接著介紹到場的委員 麥一貞委員那我們接著介紹到場的官員內政部常次吳唐安常次內政部移民署署長林宏恩署長行政院人事行政總署政務副人市長張秋元副理事長 |
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1904.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
其位及介紹的列席代表請參與名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報紀錄本次議程討論事項兩案分別排定一繼續併案審查內政部組織法第五條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1906.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1924.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
二 繼續併案審查內政部新住民發展署組織法草案前述兩案 業經14年6月19日本會司法及法治內政委員會第三次聯席會議審查決議報告及詢答完畢 均另定期繼續審查由於今日繼續併案審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1928.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1955.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
現在進行討論事項審查前先請議事人員宣讀提案條文預估宣讀時間為7分鐘另未立審查如果有修正動議或附帶決議提出請儘速將書面報告送交主題台以立印發現場進行討論宣讀時如有已收到的修正動議意義並宣讀宣讀後即進行討論那我們普通介紹羅志強委員那可以確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1961.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1985.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
請問在場的委員就上次的會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏沒有的話議事錄確定我們請宣讀條文討論事項第一案內政部組織法修正草案請三月條文對照表委員鄭天才等提案第五條除第三款修正為三移民署入出國境管理事務移民防止人口販運之規劃及執行及新增第六款六 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1985.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2004.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
新住民發展署全國新住民政策之規劃推動執行及協調二外其餘同線行條文台灣民眾黨黨團提案第五條除第三款修正為三移民署入出國境管理移民事務防止人口販運之規劃及執行及新增第四款四新住民發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2005.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2023.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
新住民權益保障、教育、就業、語言訓練、文化適應支持之規劃與執行並將現行條文之第四款及第五款、第一至第五款及第六款外其餘同現行條文委員張志倫等提案第五條第三款同台灣民眾黨黨團提案第五條第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2023.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2052.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
及第六款同委員鄭天才等提案第五條第六款外其餘同現行條文委員葉元之等提案第五條同委員鄭天才等提案委員羅明才等提案第五條除第三款修正為三移民署入出國境管理移民與防治人口販運之規劃及執行及新增第六款六新住民發展署新住民事務與政策之規劃推動管理協調及督導外其餘同現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2053.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2070.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
討論事項第二案 請參與台灣對照表 台灣民眾黨黨團提案 名稱內政部新住民發展署組織法委員鄭定才等提案 委員國民黨黨團提案 委員張志倫等提案 委員葉宜源之等提案及委員羅媚玲等提案 名稱均同 台灣民眾黨黨團提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2072.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2098.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團提案第一條內政部為辦理新住民之權益保障健全社會發展推廣多元文化並減少歧視與偏見特設新住民發展署以下簡稱本署委員鄭天才等提案第一條內政部為辦理新住民之權益保障尊重多元文化健全社會發展特設新住民發展署以下簡稱本署國民黨黨團提案第一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2099.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2111.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
內政部為統籌規劃研究諮詢協調推動促進新住民就學就業賠利關懷協助及多元服務之相關事宜特設新住民發展署刮虎以下簡稱本署 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2113.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2130.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
委員張志倫等提案第一條內政部為保障新住民基本權益健全社會發展推廣多元文化並減少歧視及偏見特設新住民發展署以下簡稱本署委員葉元芝等提案及委員羅美玲等提案第一條均同國民黨黨團提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2132.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2152.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團提案第二條本署長禮下列事項一新住民政策法制及人力之整合規劃落實與監督二新住民基本法制規劃落實及講補助事項三新住民國家考試之規劃執行督導及講助四新住民語言發展之規劃執行及督導 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2154.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2170.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
五 新住民通益制度之規劃執行及督導六 新住民學術人才儲備之規劃執行及督導七 新住民各國文化經濟交流發展之規劃執行及督導八 新住民廣播電視之規劃培植輔導及發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2172.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2196.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
九 新住民輔導就業之規劃執行協調及督導十 新住民參與社會保險之推動聯繫及協調事項十一 弱勢新住民協助政策之規劃執行及獎勵與補助十二 其他有關新移民事項委員鄭天才等提案第二條本署掌理下列事項第一款至第二款同台灣民眾黨黨團提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2197.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2223.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第二條第一款至第二款第三款至第九款分別同台灣民眾黨黨團提案第二條第四款至第十款第十款同台灣民眾黨黨團提案第二條第十二款國民黨黨團提案第二條本署長禮下列事項依新住民政策制度法規之綜合規劃協調及推動第二款至第三款同台灣民眾黨黨團第二條第二款至第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2224.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2244.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
四 新住民語言發展教育協助之規劃執行及督導第五款至第八款同台灣民眾黨黨團第二條第五款至第八款九 新住民就業服務之規劃執行協調及督導十 新住民社會福利之推動執行及協調事項十一 新住民健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2244.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2260.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
促進制規劃協調及推動 十二新住民公共參與法律諮詢制規劃協調及推動 十三其他有關新住民事項委員張志倫等提案第二條本署長禮下列事項第一款至第五款同台灣民眾黨黨團第二條 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2262.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2277.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第一款至第五款六 新住民各領域學術人才儲備之規劃執行及督導七 新住民文化發展化族群與國際交流發展之規劃執行及督導第八款 同臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第二條第八款 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2278.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2302.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
9.新住民健康促進社會參與社會福利工作權保障就業服務及法律服務之規劃執行協調及督導第十款至第十一款同台灣民眾黨黨團第二條第十款至第十一款12.新住民人權保障及歧視申訴之規劃協調及推動13.其他有關新住民事項委員岳岩之等提案第二條同國民黨黨團提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2303.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2322.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
委員羅美玲等提案第二條本署章裡下列事項一 新住民政策制度法規之規劃原理推動及落實二 新住民權益保障之規劃原理推動及落實三 新住民語言發展教育協助之規劃執行及督導第四款至第五款 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2322.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2344.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
分別同臺灣民眾黨黨團第二條第五款至第五款六 新住民文化交流經濟交流之規劃執行及督導七 新住民媒體之規劃執行輔導及發展八 新住民就業服務之規劃執行協調及督導九 新住民社會福利之規劃推動協調及落實十 新住民健康促進之規劃推動協調及落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2347.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2367.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
11.其他有關新註明事項,台灣民眾黨黨團提案第三條,本署製署長一人,職務列檢任第十三職等,副署長二人,職務列檢任第十二職等,委員鄭正才等提案,國民黨黨團提案,委員張志倫等提案,委員粵葉雲芝等提案,及委員羅梅林等提案第三條,均同台灣民眾黨黨團提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2369.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2384.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團提案第四條本署至主任秘書職務列檢任第十一職等委員鄭天才等提案國民黨黨團提案委員張志倫等提案委員葉元之等提案及委員羅美銘等提案第四條均同台灣民眾黨黨團提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2386.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2407.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團提案第五條,本屬未應業務需要,得報請行政院核准,派員駐境外辦事,並依駐外機構組織通則規定辦理。委員鄭天才等提案,國民黨黨團提案,委員張志倫等提案,委員葉元芝等提案,及委員羅美玲等提案第五條,均同台灣民眾黨黨團提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2409.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2434.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第六條本屬各職稱之官等職等及員而另以編制表定之委員鄭天才等提案第六條本屬各職稱之官等職等及員而另以編制表定之前上人員檢任、介任委任各官等人員應優先經用具有新住民身份者國民黨黨團提案委員張志倫等提案委員葉元智等提案及委員羅美玲等提案第六條均同臺灣民眾黨黨團提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2436.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2450.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第七條本法施行日期由行政院以命令定之委員鄭天才等提案國民黨黨團提案委員張志倫等提案委員葉元智等提案及委員羅美玲等提案第七條均同臺灣民眾黨黨團提案繼續先讀首等動議部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2459.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2475.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
討論提案第一案修正動議共一件修正動議一對照台灣民眾黨黨團提案第五條增訂第二項為前項第四款於本條文修正公佈後三個月施行 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2477.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2493.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
討論事項第二案修正動議共三件修正動議一對照台灣民眾黨黨團提案第六條增訂第二項為前項人員檢認兼任委任各官等人員具新住民身份者均不 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2494.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2520.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
的低於百分之三十增訂第三項為本條鎖定新住民身份者之禁用比例因為本法通過五年內四新住民特考及個並授訊完成人員達一千人時調整禁用比例增訂第四項為本法鎖定禁用新住民比例現有員的未拿比例者是非新住民人員出去後再行進 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2522.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2546.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
用補足 提案人 麥玉珍 林曙仁 高清素美 吳宗憲修正動議二對照台灣民眾黨黨團提案第七條修正為本法自公佈後三個月施行提案人 黃國昌 麥玉珍 羅志強 黃王威宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2551.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2554.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好 條文集修正動議經已宣讀完畢那現在進行討論我們現在進行討論第一案現在有說到修正動議那我們也先一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2571.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2596.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
傳譯動議三對照台灣民眾黨黨團第一條修正為內政部為統籌規劃研究諮詢協調推動及促進新住民就學就業賠利關懷協助及多元服務保障其權利健全社會發展推廣多元文化並減少歧視與偏見特設新住民發展署以下簡稱本署 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2598.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2604.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第二條修正為滿署掌理下列事項一統籌新住民相關政策制度法規與 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2606.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2628.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
行政執掌之整體規劃嚴密協調執行與督導二 辦理新住民基本法各項政策措施之規劃協調推動監督及相關獎勵與補助機制三 推動新住民人權保障政策特別針對婦女兒少單親身心障礙及中低收入戶等 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2629.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2645.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
弱勢族群提供協助與保護措施4推動新住民參與國家考試制度及其專屬類科之設置與發展並提供必要之輔導與資源協助5推動新住民母語華語及多 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2646.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2659.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
語言教育政策包括語言能力檢定教材發展及教學師資培育六建制新住民口譯與筆譯服務制度提升各機關跨語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2660.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2677.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
服务能力并推动相关人力培训与认证制度7培育新住民学术教育社工医疗媒体其他专业人才并建立人才资料库与储备机制8推广新住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2678.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2687.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
原屬果汁文化、宗教藝術、飲食及民間傳統促進國際文化理解與在地融合9. |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2687.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2696.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
輔助新著名媒體、廣播電視與數位平台內容發展協助其參與公共傳播與文化建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2697.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2719.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
推動新住民就業職能訓練創業輔導及勞動權利保障措施建立多元經濟參與平台十一協助新住民參與全民健康保險長照服務心理健康與預防醫學健康促進政策十二推動新住民社會福利社區參與家庭支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2721.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2738.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
與子女教養服務並加強地方政府橫向協調與獎勵獎補助其他涉及新住民資發展權力保障及多元文化交流外交合作等事項提案人蔓玉珍、羅志強、吳宗憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2745.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2773.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
新增修正動議第四案有關新住民有關內政部新住民發展署主持法第二條對照國民黨團底案第二條第九款修正為新住民工作權保障及就業服務之規劃執行協調及督導提案人黃榮威、羅志強、黃國昌、林倩琦宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2777.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2804.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好那我們現在進行討論先討論事項第一案繼續並案審查內政部組織法第五條條文修正草案請問一下要不要進行大體討論不用好那我們就直接進入逐條審查那請教各位上個禮拜不是都有講好OK |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2806.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2831.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這樣只有一條就麻煩各位看一下排序一第五條的部分有委員鄭天才還有民眾黨團提案以及張志文葉元之羅美玲等人提案另外還有麥玉珍等人所提的修正動議請問各位委員就條文的部分有沒有要補充那個先請提案人有沒有要做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2833.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2857.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
有沒有 沒有齁 恩賣委員有修正動物 不用提案說明齁好 那沒問題齁 那那如果都沒有意見的話 機關有沒有要補充請問一下機關 也沒有齁 好好 那我們就處理修正動物有啦 不是啦 主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2860.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2886.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那是不是我們這個部分就依照 主席來 副理事長各位委員有關於討論四項立案的修正動議一就是麥委員提案的這個部分內政部執法的第五條最後一項有要增列一個前項第四款於本條文修正公佈後三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2888.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2896.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
施行那這個部分我跟各位報告一下就是以目前新設的組織的施行日期 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2898.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2920.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
原則上都是因為考量整個組織的籌備的作業包括經費籌措等等上次大概也有稍微有討論原則上都是讓行政機關在訂定施行的日期有少數的例外 少數的例外譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2921.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2935.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
行政院的組織改造那個大規模的組織改造他有特定施行的日期是在101年的1月1號這個特例的部分是比較少數的那如果說讓機關籌備可以更順暢一點然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2942.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2963.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
就是這個新的組織上路以後能夠馬上能夠發揮比較好的功能那我們是會建議說是不是照一般的原則來處理以上黃委員謝謝主席因為剛剛突然本來條文要開始從名稱開始進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2968.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2993.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我們現在立案只有一條而已是是是是那第二個事情是我要說明的事情是說上一次在質詢的時候我們已經講得非常的清楚了行住民基本法通過是去年7月16號不是今年3月是去年7月16號我也直接問了內政部做了什麼準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2995.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3016.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
內政部說他們準備很積極非常的積極一個月開一次會搞到現在快一年了快一年了施行日期給行政機關定下一個問題是什麼時候才會正式的上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3017.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3046.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
按照他們這樣子拖延的態度從過去的表現沒有辦法讓大家有信心拖了一年這不是剛開始才成立的就拖了一年的法案內政部也說他們準備得很積極如果搞一個署,搞了一年再加三個月還搞不出來那這個行政效率也低落得太嚴重了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3047.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3058.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
所以就這個修正動議我們是配合著另外一條施行的日期三度通過以後就給你們三個月等得夠久了好 謝謝喔 那因為九關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3064.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3083.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
因為我就直接在這邊我自己表示意見因為我也是那個修正動議的那個提案人之一我想說因為之前在NC組織法的時候我們也是蠻善意的讓行政機關來定結果後來反而被拿這個日期的部分來搞我們立法院所以我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3085.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3101.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
既然這個案子已經很久以前就提出來了我想行政機關應該都準備的蠻齊全的所以我剛剛才會做那個提案的連署那這是我的意見請問一下各位委員還有沒有意見要提出來的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3102.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3120.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那因為我提案人之一因為這個部分就是在我們相關的這個詢問的時候那時候內政部也是跟我們說是今年下半年就可以上路所以我覺得這個三個月並沒有並沒有強人所難啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3121.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3140.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
因為那些詢問的時候大家會特別問嘛說這個今年下半年是可以上路而且呢那個明年就是等於說今年也會編一些預算嘛然後明年的預算再編足所以這個條文的這個修正動力基本上我不認為有至愛難行之處跟大家報告好 謝謝那請問各位委員還有沒有其他的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3151.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3176.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
好 謝謝主席 謝謝各位委員那我想上一次在質詢的時候我這邊也有報告說我們目前作為進度大概就是四個組十二課那去年到現在開了七次會議那我想最重要的重點是說第一個新機關的成立之後其實還有就是組織法一旦制定公佈我在掛牌正式運作之前還有幾件事情要做包括那個聽社的租賃修繕 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3176.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3201.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
然後還有辦公資訊設備因為這個都在組織法之前沒有組織法適應之後我才能依照預算的採購來辦理一些做一些建置還有資訊系統那及相關的人員移播那也特別謝謝各位委員談到說三個月的部分那我想在這個因為會涉及到採購招標還是要有一些時程是不是可以維持現在的版本還是說有本法再一次公佈事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3202.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3229.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
本法制公佈的事情或者三個月這個部分其實是第一個是在以往的立法體力比較少見到啦那我這邊是不是可不可以與您還是請各位委員幫我們考量一下第一個我們如果建制時程的話我這邊包括移民署的所有的作業還有人員移撥這三個月是不可能做完的啦以上好那請問還有哪位委員有要補充好那如果這樣的話來大立見怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3232.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3255.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
第五條的部分我們予以保留本案主條已經處理完畢 作以下宣告本案審查完畢 拟據審查報告提請院會公決本案需交由黨團協商院會討論時 由吳昭吉委員中線出席說明條式引述條文部分文字及法制用語授權主席及議事人員處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3259.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3286.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
接著我們進行討論事項第二案繼續並案審查內政部新住民發展署組織法草案請問各位本案需不需要進行大體討論不用那我們就直接進入主條我們現在先審查名稱部分因為所有提案人的名稱都一樣我們是不是就照提案通過各個版本都一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3288.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3303.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
請問有沒有不同意見好那就照提案通過好那我們去現在繼續審查排序一第一條有民眾黨團提案鄭天才等二十一人提案國民黨團提案及張志倫 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3305.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3326.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
及葉元之及羅美玲等人提案還有麥玉珍所提的修正動議請問各位委員有沒有要補充說明或提案人有沒有要提案說明沒有沒有的話那有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3328.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3356.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
沒有好來那個我請教一下因為這次行政機關並沒有提出版本那請問一下行政機關有沒有要提供意見第一條的部分好謝謝主席那我想第一條的部分當然是保留是不是保障多元文化精神及新住民基本權利等文字那其他的部分是不是則以統籌規劃及辦理有關新住民業務新住民事務就可以含瓜那至於各版本的意見我們沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3363.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3391.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
黃委員那個說明一下現在不同的版本裡面其實歸納起來就兩個版本一個是比較抽象的辦理新住民權益保障健全社會發展推廣多元文化減少歧視與偏見這是第一種第二種是統籌規劃研究諮詢協調推動促進新住民就業就學培力關懷協助多元服務相關事宜剛內政部的意見是似乎這兩個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3392.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3421.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
你們都各取一個部分出來那如果是這樣的話你要不要具體把你們的修正動議拿出來啊有沒有準備沒有準備不是啊 你這樣嘴巴講一講是要你出一隻嘴然後立委幫你統合版本是這樣嗎沒有 剛剛主席是說我們這邊有沒有什麼看法是啊這邊就只是要來做說明而已所以你的看法就這樣沒有具體的修正建議沒有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3423.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3442.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那我想這還是讓各位委員來好 沒有關係啦既然內政部他自己沒有具體文字上面的堅持嘛連基本的修正建議條文都沒準備嘛我很少看到行政機關擺爛到這種程度啊我老實講啦我很少看到行政機關擺爛到這種程度啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3443.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3467.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我建議是不是就依照台灣民眾黨黨團提案跟張志榮委員等17人提案通過看看其他委員有沒有高見那如果中國國民黨認為要用中國國民黨黨團提案通過我們這裡也沒有意見因為有修正動議啦我們當然是優先先從修正動議開始討論啦好 那請問其他委員有沒有意見好 曾委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3470.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3487.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我想我們就是就現在的提案文字大家來討論至於行政機關有沒有意見你說行政機關沒有修法意見你就說人家擺爛這個也真的是扣帽子 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3488.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3502.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我認為說這個如果說大家都對這個到底他是要抽象式的規範還是要具體的這個各個事項的的條列我覺得大家如果有意見我建議這條保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3505.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3534.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
好那這個是不是我們就第一條的部分我們就予以保留看大家的意思怎麼樣好那第一條部分予以保留好那我們現在審查排序第二條第二條的部分有臺灣民眾黨提案國民黨黨團提案另外還有鄭天才張志倫葉元之羅美玲等人的提案還有麥玉珍及王宏威等人的修正動議提議請問一下各位有沒有要做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3538.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3550.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
好 謝謝主席針對這個新住民發展組織法的第二條我簡單說明一下我的版本的部分我想我跟大家比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3551.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3569.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
比較不一樣的地方大概就是第二條第一項的第三款那有很多委員是把這個新住民國家考試之規劃執行督導及講助呢放在這個第二條的這個第三款第二條第一項的第三款裡面可是我跟鄭天才委員並沒有把這個納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3570.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3596.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
因為按照這個新住民基本法我們所謂新住民的定義它是怎麼定義呢?它說經許可在台灣地區居留依親居留長期居留或永居住外國人無國籍人民大陸地區人民香港或澳門的居民即配偶為居住台灣地區設有戶籍國民其實新住民它的定義是有所謂的已涉及跟未涉及 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3597.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3614.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那未涉及的部分如何去參加國家考試新住民他的範圍涵蓋是非常的廣所以這個部分呢因為他有所謂的涉及跟未涉及的部分所以我們第一這部分我們就沒有納入那再來還有國家考試呢他的權責是在考 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3615.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3629.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
並不是一個小小的這個三級機關一個署可以來辦理的所以這個部分跟憲法也不符所以這部分我就說明一下再來還有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3630.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3643.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
也就是說在這個我的版本本學的版本的第七款的部分新住民媒體之規劃執行輔導及發展我看其他的版本是用廣播跟電視廣播跟電視那我用媒體它的媒體的這個範圍會更廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3650.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3674.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那再來還有就是我的第九款新住民社會福利這規劃推動協調及落實我用社會福利而不是我看到好像民眾黨的版本是用這個社會保險因為社會保險它是屬於社會福利的一部分所以用社會福利它的範圍也比較廣那大概這幾點是要我是要說明的部分好 以上謝謝 謝謝主席好 那請問各位還有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3681.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3707.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
脈委員先舉手讓脈委員先講完然後再往委員脈委員好所以主席在第二條這邊的話因為我有全部從第一條到第13條都有修正要跟大家說明一下因為第一條的話就是我們為了新住民相關的政策這裡的話都有說明的就是制度還有法規還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3708.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3711.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
行政的執掌的整體的規劃研議協調等等所以在第二條我們就依據我們新住民基本法裡面各項的推動還有協調督導還有獎勵都有在這個機制裡面所以第三條因為我們是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3728.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3740.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這個是本署是掌理這些的工作所以我們也是很重視這一塊所以我們就第三條我就推動新住民人權保障的政策特別就是說針對婦女兒少單親或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3743.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3763.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
身心障礙中低收這個補助來去協助的保護的措施第四條呢我會去修正的就是為什麼說新住民以國家考試制度以其專屬類科制設置與發展並提供要 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3763.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3766.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
輔導還有資源協助這個是我說的很明確是說我們不是在這個法裡面來去讓他們考是我們這個署是要專門就是要去輔導來協助要怎麼樣讓他們在去考試的時候有一些資源的協助或者輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3786.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3789.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
是這樣子的目的在我們還沒有修正的醫生一樣的不是針對是說我們有身份證沒身份證都可以去考當然是這個考試在考試院的時候規定不是在我們這邊去認定身份來去考試所以這個我是講得很清楚了在推動母語的部分華語或者多國語言我們是我們拿語的雙向的就是說我們新住民要學我們的華語 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3816.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3819.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
或者新住民要來去教母語這樣子的兩邊我們都要有這樣子包含語言的鑑定還有教材的部分讓我們要把小孩再去學不同的語言他也覺得這個老師是合格又有這樣子的證書這樣對我們要讓小孩子去學母語的話更有幫助還有加上我們自己要去學母語 學華語也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3842.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3860.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
更大的幫助這個部分還有第六呢我們要建設一個口譯或者筆譯這樣的服務制度針對就是現在我們的各個機關或者移民署或者是警政署還有就是法院我們的制度都沒有連怎麼樣去給費用有就是很多項都不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3866.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3871.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所以我們希望是在這邊的話我們的發展署因為為了要發展就是讓新住民更專業也制度也更完善還有第七的話我們希望說培育學術教育發行這一些的建立的資料庫怎麼樣去研究更好要儲備更多的人才我們要讓大家學以致用還有第八呢我們要推動就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3893.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3917.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
原國就是我們大家都叫母國或者我們本國所以我們就原屬國的文化宗教這些希望做一個交流還有就是促進我們的國際對我們的新住民的了解像我們12月18號雖然沒有放假但是全國移民署的要求各地方都要辦這樣子的節日所以我們也希望說這個做一個融合 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3919.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3924.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
第九的話 因為我們要有媒體 我們也認同說不能說只有廣播電視 我們要加入媒體這個部分我們也是希望說有一個平台 讓大家就是在即時就會收到不一樣的訊息也栽培我們的新住民新二代 成為這樣子的一個媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3941.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3945.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
或者供電視這樣子的一個廣播的主持人或者讓他們可以去發揮等等所以第十的話推動新住民就業這個部分職能訓練或者創業都要有因為現在在台灣創業的人也很多所以我們希望說不管就業創業多平台還有關於就是多元的經濟參與的平台也共同在納入在這個裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3968.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3990.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以第十一有希望說我們參與我們的社會全民的健保保險這個社會保險它包含的是長照服務心理監視還有預防醫療等等的健康的促進的政策所以我們就把兩個分開新住民社會福利跟社會保險是兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3992.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4014.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
不同的面向還有服務更明確讓他就是參與社區的參與家庭的照顧或者家庭的子女的養育教育並加強就是在地方跟中央還有社區長官學民這樣子的社區的政府橫向的協調以獎勵還有補助所以23就是相關我們沒有提到的這一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4021.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4037.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
有很多大家有需要的時候我們就可以在13項就額外的去協助這個就是我在提的修正綜藝的比較明確掌握的職長的工作範圍 以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝 那現在我們請王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4042.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4045.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好謝謝主席那我這邊的修正動議主要是針對國民黨團的提案的條文的第二條第九款有關於新住民的這個工作權保障要把它入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4060.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4086.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
因為大家都知道其實雖然我們對於新住民的就業的權益工作的保障比過去事實上是有改進很多但是不可諱言的在我們很多的一般的僱主還有一些用人的單位它對於這個外籍它還是存在一些並沒有達到一個多元尊重的一個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4087.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4093.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以我們很多新住民他還是會因為比如他的身份他的語言的能力口音等等去面臨各項的困擾甚至有些只要看到他的身份證他的出生地就被婉拒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4103.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4127.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那像这部分事实上都没有充分的去保障我们新著名的他的工作的权利那所以我们觉得在这次修法的过程里面应该要去比照原民会组织法第二条第一项第四款的内容那么这个原民会呢他们就是把工作权的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4128.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4143.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
納入這個法條裡面所以呢在這個修正動議裡面也把工作權的保障納入我們新住民發展署的組織法裡面在這個部分呢我們特別予以強調跟加強以上謝謝好謝謝那請問各位還有沒有要補充的好陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4151.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4163.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
有關這一條,我這個個人特別有在尋答的時候也特別談到了有關於這個新住民國家考試是規劃執行督導及講助它是屬於這個考試權的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4165.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4182.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
你把他列入在這個內政部新住民發展署的組織在組織法裡面把這個屬於考試權的部分,納入到這個條文裡面是非常不妥尤其是他這裡面,他不只是規劃,他還包括執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4183.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4204.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
考試的執行這個一定是考試院來辦理這不可能是由內政部有任何一個行政單位來辦理所以我個人對這第二條第三款的部分個人是反對我認為反對把這一條列入我是建議把這一款刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4205.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4226.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那這個另外這個有關這個廣播電有關這個第八款齁這個新住民廣播電視規劃齁我認為說只有廣播電視也確實是是比較狹窄啦齁因為現在的媒體現在各式各樣的媒體齁廣播電視尤其是廣播它已經也不是已經已經不屬於主流 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4227.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4255.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
不算是在過去那麼強勢的媒體工具所以你把廣播跟電視單獨列出來我覺得這個是已經有點比較過時的想法所以我是比較贊同羅美林委員的提案裡面把它改成媒體的部分以上好 那保留 那那個王委員你剛剛說修正動議的部分怎麼樣是你要保留還是說到協商再提 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4265.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4291.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
協商再提也可以那就協商的時候再提修正東西好的好的那第二條的部分我們就予以保留那我們現在審查排序三第三條部分有民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團都有提案另外有鄭天才張志倫葉元之羅美玲等人有各自有提案那請問就第三條的部分各位有無意見要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4295.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4310.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
院部門有沒有要補充好 謝謝主席第三條的部分我這邊簡單說明一下那這一次的修正版本裡面包括副署長兩人的部分那依照那個中央行政機關組織法規定的話三級機關是至多副首長三人 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4310.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4327.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那我們金盤點我們移民未來新住民發展署的業務其實我們目前規劃4組12棵編織員員是100人如果依照這個編織員額跟業務值漲所以我們建議副署長1人就足以夠使用這個在人員的編織跟配屬上會比較適當好 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4329.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4358.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
因為各個委員的版本都一樣耶那這個我們要大家的意見怎麼樣因為我剛剛看了一下從黨團提案到民進黨的委員或國民黨的委員其實提案的內容都一樣那我們這個是不是要依照第三條要照各提案通過還是各位要求保留了保留了因為新增機關他們有認為說你要不要把他那個沒有他對但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4360.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4361.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
主張保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4378.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4399.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
謝謝主席 謝謝王委員我想跟大家報告一下因為編織員額的話我們未來是移撥50人由移民署移撥至新住民發展署那另外還要新增50人所以這100個人來講的話如果以內政部相關的一個體力來講的話100員額的署大概都是設置副署長一人我想以這個方式譬如說我們國家公務員署就是副署長一人編織員也是差不多這個規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4403.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4408.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
如果可以增加我倒是希望可以增加員額而不是增加主管這樣我們來推展新住民業務應該會更順利 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4412.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4438.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
麥委員因為我們不是說一個屬五的 是全國的 這個我們是可以說我們民眾黨 國民黨 民進黨 還有就是農委員都是一樣就是兩人啦 不能說我們內政部沒有提任何的版本就否決大家都認同的 就一個人否決其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4439.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4461.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
所以你們提案你們都不認同是不是我們提案啊你們有啊我們沒有提案你沒有提案因為我看到你們主席抱歉我倒覺得行政部門你在分官設置裡面它有一定的一個條件行政機關它其實也有講這個變成說大家認為該兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4464.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4484.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
你說這樣子對新住民比較好的照顧,那你乾脆給他三個、四個,那也不太對。就是說你真正有需要跟其他的部門來做一個比較的話,你編制員額該多少,那就應該是副署長是幾位。啊你現在大家機關都一個,只有這裡放兩個,就好奇怪。 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4484.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4512.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
也不會因為說我多一個就好像宣誓對新住民是更好的一個照顧倒也不是啦你說我沒給你捨幾棵你捨一捨就完了也不知道為社而設也不曉得在幹什麼倒會認為啦行政部門剛剛的一個解釋我認為是合理的啦但是呢因為涉及到其他委員的提案有他不同的看法啦我們也多尊重啦不如就保留在協商的時候大家再討論一下啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4515.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4526.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
主席 主席在這因為我們都尊重大家的意見跟因為他剛才政治有所講的 也就是說18個來賓有一個署長 跟因為我覺得說今天的所討論的版本我們常常都 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4533.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4543.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
走到常務任用,在這裏,我們是13支電的嘛在這個過程,我覺得你要照顧新住民的地方什麼事情我認為,加一條剛才總會想,我們的召委所說的說你如果要照顧好,你就在書店多寫,照顧越好還有每一個單位,書店都要寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4563.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4565.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
今天我們討論的是 要如何讓新住民所來的照顧更好跟這個有的提倆的 我的意見是覺得這個還可以因為我覺得大家來探討 來想看什麼方法問一下 問一下的想法 不要去磨砂 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4587.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4590.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
認真打拚的人不是我們不支持我們自己的條款因為每一個有每一個的想法啦不是說我們站出來我們就說以後也可以參選一個啦以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4602.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4630.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
抱歉喔 遭到燒傷 聽不清 該請坐謝謝 各位那這樣喔就是因為既然有其他條保留嘛就算我們這個通過其實到協商也可以再拿出來討論那沒有通過要保留其實都一樣因為我們其他條已經保留就算這一條我們今天答沒意見通過你協商也是會拿出來討論其實我覺得意義都一樣啦不管保留或是直接通過其實做法都是一樣的我不知道各位有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4631.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4658.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
其他那如果這樣的話麥委員那個剛王宏威委員有說同意保留那我不知道麥委員的意見怎麼樣好那就我們想說大家就共事就是本條予以保留好謝謝那我們現在審查排序第四條有民眾黨黨團提案國民黨黨團提案還有鄭天才張志倫葉圓之羅美齡等四人各自有提案那請問就第四條的部分各位委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4660.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4678.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
沒有好那如果沒有的話我們就按照各提案通過好那第五條第五條部分有台灣民眾黨及國民黨黨團各自有提案另外有委員鄭天才張志榮葉元之羅美玲等四人各自有提案那請問各位委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4679.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4706.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
好那沒有的話我們就依照各提案通過那現在我們審查第六條第六條有台灣民眾黨黨團提案國民黨黨團提案另外有委員鄭天才張志倫葉元之羅美玲等四人各自有提案呃之外還有麥玉珍委員所提的修正動議請問各位委員有沒有意見沒有的話那我們是不是就依照修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4713.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4733.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
謝謝主席我想第六條裡面有關那個人員的官職等編制表定制那其中曾建財委員有談到前向人員檢任、見任、委任各官等應該要優先禁用新住民那第一個就是說因為這個建議裡面國家考試的升遷並沒有去區隔說以新住民身份來去做所謂給予其 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4735.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4761.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
特殊之保障那因為新住民的話如果已經融入我國社會就是我們中華民國的國民那所以這個地方是建議不以優先經用或公務人員去具新住民的身份的比例那至於其他的內容部分都還尚符合相關的立法體例副理事長召委 各位委員那我們是覺得這一條問題會比較大一點我們有義務要提出來做提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4762.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4778.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
那如果看到這個討論事項二的修正動議一第二項講到前項人員檢任、兼任委任、各官等人員,據新住民身份者均不得低於百分之三十 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4780.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4803.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那跟後續的相關的這個條款那有一個比較嚴重的問題那就是剛剛吳次郎其實已經講了就是如果是我國的國民的身份以後其實在憲法上應該被同等的對待那如果沒有同等對待其實這個疑慮會比較大一點那目前我們我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4807.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4809.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我們國家的各個這個部會的組織法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4812.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4838.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
有這樣的規定的有定有這個比例的大概只有原民會的組織法第六條他有定原住民比例連客委會都沒有定比例那原民會這個他是源自憲法徵修條文的第十條第十二款他是要求要保障原住民的他的相關的權益所以他是有憲法層次的依據的所以對原住民有 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4839.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4860.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
特別的這樣的規範那其他的族群事實上目前是都沒有這樣的規範那如果我們新住民朋友成為我們的國民之後那當然原則上他是要被同等對待的那這個是一個比較嚴肅的問題然後在技術上也會有比較大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4868.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4891.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那因為要參加國家考試 你可能就要有中華民國國籍那現在的新住民的定義 其實它的類別有很多種那不一定他都會是具有中華民國國籍那你要當一個公務員 你除了符合考試法 國籍法 任用法等等還有其他相關法規的規定 它是一個比較複雜的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4894.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4906.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
如果這樣訂,其實也會有一些誤解可能新住民朋友,你法上面就訂說我可以啊,那現在我如果不行這其實會有一些紛擾然後第三個,就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4908.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4924.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我們務實一點來看像其他原住民因為他是憲法上的保障所以他有原住民特考所以他的來源是一個比較可以掌握的狀態那新住民我們剛才講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4925.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4940.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
他考試法有考試法的規定有國際法的規定其實有很多的相關法令的限制在那如果這個條文要這樣過那在新自民組織法上路的時候能不能找到具有這樣資格的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4942.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4960.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
來執行這個我們要幫助新住民朋友的這個工作這個我們會認為是比較嚴肅的課題所以我們會比較具體建議說這個是不是照一般的體力那新增的這部分是不是可以刪除以上請各委員參考麥委員先舉手 麥委員待會再審委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4968.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4995.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
好謝謝我們是要有這個部分就是因為我們現在要提的是新住民發展署對不對這個發展署我們就是大家都說自己照顧自己自己服務自己落地服務在地服務對不對這個就是我們想要的是說我們要鼓勵大家來去做這件事情又要設一年多少錢來去栽培 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4997.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5001.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
但是沒有一個地方讓大家發揮這個不是講了跟做就不一樣嗎所以我們一定要有一個新住民發展署了就是讓新住民來去發展我們現在這個部分我們要寫我們定於本法通過五年內不是說現在馬上我們要有就是我們要希望的是說通過這個法以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5023.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5028.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我們要有這樣子的規定有這樣子的優勢才是真正的是說我們要把它列出來我們優勢讓新住民優勢可以有這個機會大家也往這個目標來去努力但是我們要考試或者成為這邊的工作人員還要經過關關卡 對不對你要拿身份證十年以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5047.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5052.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
你才能有這個資格去當公務人員公職人員還有就是說我們兩岸關係也是一樣你要洗得十年以上你才能考這個公職人員公務人員所以說不是馬上我們有身分就是不要身分證就可以考所以說我們這個是最後的一關但是我們要有這樣子讓我們的新住民就是有這樣的機會我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5077.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5104.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
就是達到一定收訊成人就是人員達1000人時調整就是金用的比例我們一定要說在我們的組織法裡面我們有說人才還有研究的這個部分的資料庫所以我們這個部分是我們一定要有這樣的未達到名額的時候我們就是說新住民可以出缺後再進行補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5105.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5116.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個部分就是我們談心很大但是我們要有這樣子的一個機會一個平台就是讓新住民新二代有這個優先還有就是有這樣的機會可以進來當這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5120.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5138.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
一個工作機會 我們的目的是這樣子所以不是說馬上就是我們一定要這樣子 我們也可以說只要新住民就好 新二代就好 沒有啊對不對 我們是說有這個方向 有這個目的 有這個機會讓大家就是往這個目標走 以上 謝謝好 請省委員好 下一位總委員 這個我想跟 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5148.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5159.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
有關於這個修正動議的部分這個我想我上次在質詢的時候大概有講過就是說新住民我們對於新住民的保障我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5160.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5177.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
有一個很重要的觀念就是他不能夠比照對原住民的保障原住民你一代是原住民你十代之後你還是原住民那對於原住民的特殊保障他第一基於憲法第二基於過去原住民的在這個歷史遭遇這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5180.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5203.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
他到十代他依然具備原住民的血統他在過去歷史上面所累積下來對他們不公平的對待我們這個社會與他保障但是新住民你來的第一代是新住民你保障到第二代新住民子女可能因為他剛來你到第三代第四代第五代你不能說十代之後他還是新住民他還必須擁有特殊的保障這個不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5204.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5220.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
所以新住民的保障跟原住民的保障它是不能类比不能直接拿原住民的保障整套想要搬过来在新住民上面使用我认为这个是我上次在咨询的时候就提过这个是这样的观念是不对的就像当初我们其他除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5221.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5239.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
除了原住民新住民以外其他現在台灣的這些漢人每一個人來的他當初來的時候都是新住民他不能說經過五代之後他還說我是新住民外省人說經過經過五代外省人說還說我是外省人沒有已經沒有這種省台灣現在已經沒有這種省級的問題了大家彼此也沒有再分本省外省 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5240.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5259.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以你不能說來的第三代、第四代、第五代他還是要有特殊的待遇,我認為這個是不妥的所以這個法在這邊訂立說各項公務人員的這些禁用必須要優先有行住民身份,我認為這是不妥的包括現在的客委會,客委會也沒有這一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5260.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5270.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
沒有這一條 各位會的這個組織法第六條本會各職等官職等員而另以編制表定職他也沒有說應該要優先禁用客家人 沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5271.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5292.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以我認為說在這裡這個增訂這個優先進入新住民的身份我認為是有很大的疑慮也甚至有這個對於有這個憲法上面的違背憲法的疑慮所以我個人是如果說但是如果說大家我也尊重說如果說大家有各種不一樣的意見那我也是提案說這條先予保留好 剛剛莊委員先舉手然後再來王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5299.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5320.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我是覺得保留了,這麼多不同黨派的委員在這個地方,我們思考點會不同這個議題也許我沒有跟上,但是我必須要講的就是說對於原住民的一個保障,這個確實在我們憲法徵求條文裡面講得很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5321.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5345.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
原住民的在把它位階提升到憲法層次有它特別的意義喔尤其是過去的原住民以跟漢飛援來講的話是那確實是地位經濟上各方面那確實確實是政府是對原住民有所虧欠喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5345.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5365.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那所以會提升到原住民裡面,這個有它特殊的一個意義,它有這個身份以後,那是受到國家的保障。那你現在反而,你去做一個思考,你說新住民進來以後,你說新住民,第一代新住民,他是不是要擁有像原住民一樣的保障? |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5366.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5389.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我認為層次會不一樣的地方就是,你進來你第一代進來,第二代進來,第二代第三代你不能想說我還是新住民,不是,不能繼續這樣去講你去看任何一個國家,你一個移民接受的國家去,他也不行,像到美國到英國到其他地方,我也不會講說移民來了以後什麼都優先,不會喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5390.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5409.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
也沒有國家會弄僵的一個政策只是說那成為我們的國民以後他的基本人權當然要一樣國家本來就是要去照顧他所以我對於說新住民優先這個部分要等同原住民這個我認為這個要再考慮所以我看其實先保留了王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5414.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5436.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我想這個條文討論到現在我想也可能就是必須要保留因為這個提案在這麼多原來的提案中除了鄭天才委員他可能是基於原住民組織法裡面他定了就是說要優先禁用具有新住民身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5437.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5463.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
之外那其他的提案各黨團的提案其實大家都有一致的這個共識那我的建議是就說內政部是不是還在跟麥玉珍委員然後再做一些溝通好不好在我們這個法條在進行我們的這個協商的時候之前再做一些溝通那這個條文我們就先予以保留謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5466.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5490.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
好 那吳委員這一條當然大家都已經講了那我覺得憲法的原則立法院真的要克遵憲法這跟新住民的狀況跟原住民的狀況當然不一樣新住民未來取得國籍就是國人的身份如果這裡再開了一個禁用公務體系的特權跟後門我覺得這個就違反了憲法的平等原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5491.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5517.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我們真的不要輕易的在違反憲法的規範了那其實是這樣啦我們在場的委員其實我聽了連紅衛代表國民黨的黨編好像國民黨委員也都同意原本的條文嘛其實是也是尊重鄭天才委員的第二項啦那麥玉珍委員您當然可能一定會為你們的新住民族群來發言如果以現場要保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5519.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5536.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
也行啦 只是我說在場大部分是希望維持原來多數委員的這個條文啦就主席您看看要怎麼採釋其實這一條也可以不保留的啦我的意思是這樣 因為共識其實蠻高的 但尊重主席好 張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5539.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5561.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
其實只要能夠參加國家考試他一定已經拿到中華民國的身份證了他已經從新住民的身份轉換為中華民國的國民台灣人了所以你如果說再做什麼優先禁用或什麼的我覺得這樣子是非常奇怪的我覺得立法要有立法的品質不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5562.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5568.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
不能我們這個立法出去被人家笑所以我是覺得看要保留也好或是要處理也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5571.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5597.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我就看大家的意思啦因為其實前幾條已經保留那其實保留跟通過其實到寫上的時候都是可以拿出來討論即使今天通過寫上的時候也是可以討論所以其實我個人是覺得差別不大尊重各位的意見好那我們就第六條的部分就予以保留好那我們現在審查第七條第七條有台灣民眾黨也有國民黨黨團有提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5597.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5609.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
另外有鄭天才、張志如、葉元之、羅美玲等四人各自有提案此外還有黃國昌等四人所提的修正動議請問各位委員就本條的部分有沒有要做提案說明或要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5613.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5641.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這個提案條文大家都一樣因為我們前面那個內政部組織法就是公佈後三個月施行那這個條文我們已經做保留了嗎其實這個是跟那個內政部組織法是連動的那我建議就是先予以保留到時候我們一併來做處理好不好好那請問各位有沒有不同的意見沒有的話那我們第七條的部分也予以保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5644.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5665.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
好 那本案逐條審查均已處理完畢 作以下宣告本案審查完均 擬拒審查報告其請院會公決 那本案須交到黨團協商院會討論時由吳釗濟委員中線出席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法字用於授權主席及事人員處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5669.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5674.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
好 議程所列事項已處理完畢本次會議到此結束現在散會 謝謝大家 |