| IVOD_ID |
16787 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16787 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-20,36-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-26T08:30:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-26T12:38:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:07:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528ee60931de57f1aa368bd03a951da4504b418e1797692e3a0d171a14f134cdd7215ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函為監察院114年度辦理「2025年第37屆澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會暨人權國際研討會」所需經費不敷，請同意動支114年度中央政府總預算第二預備金750萬元支應案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:14 - 12:38:00 |
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123123 |
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1982.06 |
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1987.651 |
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我們請組密報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員一組法定人數 |
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1989.127 |
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1999.029 |
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好主席現在宣布我們開始開會請議事人員先讀今日的議程審查行政院函請監察院114年度辦理2025年第37屆奧紐及太平洋地區監察史良會及人權國際研討會所需經費不敷請同意動之114年度中央政府總預算第二預備金750萬元之一案宣讀完畢 |
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2019.752 |
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2044.107 |
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謝謝 那我們先介紹在場的委員 吳秉瑞委員接著我們介紹主計總處副主計長再補介紹黃珊珊委員來 我們首先先介紹主計總處副主計長 陳慧娟 |
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2047.352 |
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2051.855 |
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那我們監察院代理秘書長王貞華秘書長那我們監察業務處那個黃處長監察調查處楊處長公職人員財產申報處陳處長秘書處張雅麗處長綜合業務抱歉抱歉是那個 |
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2072.726 |
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2077.888 |
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張麗雅 張麗雅 處長那綜合業務處 汪玲玲 處長那我們會計處 我們陳主任國家人權委員會執行秘書 周秘書 居立委員會執行秘書 鄭秘書財政及經濟委員會 朱密 邱朱密謝謝 歡迎 |
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2097.213 |
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2103.677 |
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本次會議由財政司法及法治兩個委員會聯席審查行政院韓維監察院114年度辦理2025年第37屆 |
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2111.274 |
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2130.401 |
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澳紐及太平洋地區監察室監察室年會即人權國際研討會所需要的經費不敷請同意動資114年度中央政府總預算的第二億倍金750萬元來支應付案現在請行政院主計總處陳主計長 |
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2137.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2141.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們先請行政院主計總處帶陳惠娟副主計長還有監察院分別就本案進行報告我們首先請行政院主計處陳副主計長進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2170.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2198.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席 各位委員 女士 先生今天非常感謝貴委員會安排會議就監察院所請辦理2025年第37屆澳紐及太平洋地區監察使聯會暨人權國際研討會請大院同意動資114年度中央政府總預算第二預備金支應一案進行審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2199.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2222.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
監察院自83年起成為國際監察組織 正式會員會籍隸屬澳紐及太平洋地區APOR深獲IOI認同及肯定經多方努力並積極爭取下114年APOR年會主辦權成功由該院獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2223.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2226.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
並將於114年9月3日至5日舉辦所需經費750萬元除進行會員會議外亦將舉辦研討會、交流、監察及人權相關議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2240.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2256.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本項經費源於納編該月一百一十四年度預算案議事業務工作計畫向下為該科目預算案原編列一千八百五十六萬兩千元包括本項經費七百五十萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2257.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2272.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
經大院審議後全數刪減監察院因本會議舉辦時間在即急需辦理相關前置作業為避免影響國際聲譽原依預算法第22條第二項規定報請大院同意動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2277.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2300.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
114年度中央政府總預算第二預備金支應基於本案有助於提升我國國際能見度避免長期深耕 致國際交流成果中斷敬請各位委員指教及支持 謝謝好 謝謝那我們繼續請監察院完代理秘書長王貞華進行報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2311.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2324.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好那監察院做相關的口頭報告監察院的推動國際監察事務到今天有30年積極加強與世界各國監察機構及國際監察組織的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2327.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2355.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
交流合作1993年有感於國際監察交流的重要性源於1994年8月以中華民國監察院的名義加入倡導監察及人權理念的國際監察組織以下稱IOI成為具有投票權的正式會員會籍是隸屬於澳紐及太平洋地區以下稱APOR |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2356.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2359.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
監察院推動國際事務不遺餘力積極參與IOI及APRO區域會議及活動擴展國際監察活動空間藉由實際的行動來鞏固監察院與IOI的會員權益為善盡會員的義務本院總共參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2377.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2397.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
出席IOI的世界會議有8次那April的年會有18次而且拜會了重要的監察及人權機構擴大國際參與另外邀請國際監察領域重要的人士來訪推展監察外交April是IOI |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2398.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2421.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
狹下的六個區域組織之一總共有18個會員國每一到兩年會舉辦區域的年會是由會員國來輪流主辦112年10月份本院的代表團赴歐洲出席April年會及維多利亞監察使公署50週年慶與April的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2423.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2446.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
會議上面爭取而且獲到同意由本院第三度來主辦April年會顯見IOI的執委會跟區域的會員對監察院的肯定第30次屆April的年會預計是在今年9月3號到5號在台北舉行他的相關的議程包括April的會員會議還有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2449.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2471.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
人權的國際研討會今年的主題我們暫定成監察與人權之多元實踐及發展另外還有文化參訪這次邀請的對象當然包括April的全體會員IOI的重要成員日本韓國或者是太平洋地區友邦等監察人權機關以及國內外監察人權的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2476.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2487.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
領域的人士目前已有多位APRO的會員與國際監察人士表達願意來台而且要擔任講座的意願目前還在積極洽邀國際觀察員等外賓 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2490.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2506.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
有關於經費的預估為了周妥來辦理37年April年會有關經費的支出項目包含三個部分第一個部分是國外講座、貴賓、會員的機票、算數、交通費等 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2507.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2517.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第二個部分是有關於廠租的佈置專業的人力同步的口譯等設備費第三是會議資料的編譯會議實錄的編印等等合計約新台幣750萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2522.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2528.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
近年來國際的機票持續上漲國內的時數物價等費用不斷提高有關經費的編列跟100年、108年的我們實際辦理APPLE的編列數數額是相當的接近相關的費用都會準節公帑來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2543.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2562.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
以上就是警舊本院來辦理37屆April年會做檢要的報告監察院長期深耕在國際監察領域深獲肯定是得來不易的外交成果為了維護我國的國際聲譽並善盡會員的義務敬請各位委員支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2568.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2588.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 謝謝現在開始詢答先做以下的宣告依每位出席委員花言的時間是五分鐘必要的時候延長一分鐘每位列席的委員花言的時間是三分鐘我們今天上午十點截止花言的一個登記現在依登記的順序請登記第一位的林德虎委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2603.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2609.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
謝謝主席是不是請那個副主席長陳副主席長好陳副主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2615.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2639.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
委員好副主席因為今天這個監察院辦理研討會的經費不敷審查的案子行政院含的說明內容為什麼是依據預算法第22條第二項規定來辦理為什麼不是依據預算法第70條的規定來辦理那我請副主席你做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2640.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2663.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
是 為垂尋的事項我在這裡做個報告就是說因為監察院今天所提的它的源頭是因為在立法院預算審議的時候是被刪減的所以我們預算法的規定它為了 刪減以後就可以動用預備金是不是那就是說我們預算法的規定它有分前段跟後段前段就基於尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2664.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2693.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
立法院預算的審議所以規定他不能動資第二預備金但是他後段是就是說如果是原來刪減的立法院有同意的話那他就可以動資第二預備金吳審議長我請教你預算法第22條第二項內容是立法院審議刪除或刪減至預算項目及金額不得動資預備金但法定經費或立法院同意者 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2694.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2705.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不在此限那我請問戶主記長今天這個審查案的經費到底是不是法定的經費是不是就是說他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2706.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2728.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
法定經費或經立法院同意的所以他是屬於或後面的立法院同意如果是法定經費換為基於維持法定機關正常運作以及執行法定職務之經費如果停止執行會造成影響整個機關的存續 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2730.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2737.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那麼應該可以動資預備金不需要審查反之啊如果不是法定經費的範圍那請問因為目前齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2741.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2770.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
整個這個憲法法庭啊已經受理監察院所提的114年中央政府總預算案關於刪減監察院稅出預算進行違憲的審查那我請問副主席長你認為立法院適合對憲法法庭違憲審查中的案件進行實質的審查嗎現在在憲法法庭喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2772.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2801.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
跟委員報告就是說因為那個去釋憲那個是釋憲的那個那釋憲出來到最後的結果呢但是現在議會已經到了預算執行這個階段那眼看昨天就要辦理了本案在立法院進行審查經過三讀決議喔如果又是維持原決議也就是不通過動資預備金那麼行政院監察院到底要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2802.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2807.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
難道要再呼籲要提釋憲法法庭的審查嗎你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2809.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2831.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們現在就是依預算法的這個規定來請求原來三檢的大院看能不能同意但是現在在憲法法庭啊還沒有到最後的決定啊對不對但是如果一切都要等候法庭如果憲法法庭違憲審查結論和立法院動用預備金審查不同的結果的時候那應該要聽誰的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2834.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2852.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這樣你了解吧憲法法庭到最後裁定的結果跟我們現在要是通過的背道而馳那到底要聽誰的跟委員報告因為現在我們已經在執行當中了如果一切都需要等到憲法法庭可能很多的但是現在還在那裡啊那個副審計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2854.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2871.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
副主席講預算法第22條第二項和第三項增列行之有年但是條約裡面認識用法應該要有所依據而不是只照字面意義就認為有所本114年總預算在3月21號總統已經公布實行 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2876.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2899 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
在憲法法庭違憲審查結果還沒有出來前目前是屬於法定預算我請問副主席長今天的審查案要動之第二一倍金主計總數是依據哪種實質的條件認為符合第二項符合第二一倍金的必要動之你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2899.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2926.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我們就是因為當時認為三檢以後自然來行那因為二十二條就賦予說如果三檢的立法院同意可以動資第二預備金所以就依這個法所規範的程序來提出申請其次 主席 那個副主席長請問你動資第二預備金是不是需要符合華麗明確性的原則才能讓預備金動資釋出有名 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2927.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2947.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我覺得這個條文主要還是在於說立法院刪減了那如果因為情勢變跟立法院同意他動之所以他概念上就是原來刪減的這個大院他是如果同意他還是可以動之還是只要機關需要宋家立法院同意就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2948.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2963.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
是這樣的嗎?沒有,要經立法院同意那再其次,預算法第70條對第二預備金動資就已經明文規定我請問副主席講,行政院以預算法第22條第二項為依據難道預算法第70條形容據文嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2968.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2983.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
70條喔 可以護士不看嗎不是 70條是行政院同意動之送立法院備查那22條大院監督的強度比較強要經立法院同意那個今天喔 我是認為啦 主計長不敢來喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2984.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3006.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
要你出來這個其實我們就打個問號啦你照理講陳淑芝主計長應該要來面對不是不是對不對不是不敢來是剛好有另外沒有那回事啦基本上我們就是依法來提出申請主計為主對不對我時間到了我不就不耽擱啦我認為你要審慎啦好請委員支持謝謝是謝謝德湖委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3012.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3015.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那個接著我們請吳秉瑞委員質詢副組長那個組長身體不舒服你可以替他代為說明主席麻煩請監察院王代理秘書長監察院王代理秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3047.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3061.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
今天為了這個750萬的這個要動用第二預備金喔立法院專門財政委員會專門開這個會這個還不是只有我們委員會同意就可以了還要到院會去這功成好大 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3063.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3080.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
為了750萬所發揮的這些行政成本恐怕就已經佔了相當的比例了你看這麼多的立法委員要開一天的會然後立法院要為這個開一天的會然後要送到院會 全院的委員會來決議你不覺得這樣子有點功成浩大嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3083.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3094.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
報告委員監察院的確是有時間上的急迫性然後真的有時虛那為了國家的形象所以會這樣子的提出走這樣子的預算法的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3095.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3120.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我就是提醒你觀察到最後才想要詳細的了解這個預算為什麼會被刪掉啊你們原來在本院在審理預算的時候你們委員會是內政司法法治委員會那司法法治委員會在審查預算的時候你們沒有跟他好好報告嗎你們沒有好好跟他們說明嗎為什麼這些委員要刪除你們這個預算呢可不可以說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3124.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3145.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
跟委員說明 監察院的預算是在立法院的司法及法治委員會當時我們是提出來把這個相關的預算是放在議事的業務裡面總共剛剛有1800多萬然後在委員會審查的時候是沒有任何的結果就是保留送院會處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3146.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3167.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我的意思是說在審查過程中因為我也在本院在立法院已經二十幾年了審查的過程中是我們這需要預算的單位要很積極的跟該委會的委員做溝通說明說這一筆經費對我們確實有急需有很需要你們有去做這個詳盡的說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3169.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3188.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
跟我說明在審預算的過程中當時是我們的前秘書長李秘書長都有做非常詳細的說明然後我們也有特別強調本筆經費的重要性跟急迫性所以在委員會是全案保留送院會那院會的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3191.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3197.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
在提出要刪減在院會這個階層提出要刪減這個預算的提案的時候你們有沒有機會來跟這個立法院的黨團各個黨團做說明做報告啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3207.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3224.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
在院會審查的時候原則上我們沒有這樣子的機會再做說明所以就是這個預算你們當初因為有需要所以你們編列了那編列送到本院來之後給司法法制委會審查你們的預算的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3225.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3237.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
他是有經過詳細的說明但是全案保留送院會那院會提出三檢動議的這個過程中幾乎也沒有協討的機會嘛你們連講話的機會都沒有嘛這樣就預算就亂七八糟就亂砍一堆啦請問監察院的這些經費被砍到你們的理副院長有來跟我說明啊說被砍了90幾%啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3250.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3259.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
他說企務監察院就沒有辦法運作啊李副院長跟我們市立法院的老同事啊那你們以前的李秘書長也是我們的老同事那這李副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3263.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3283.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
是我地方上我的朋友啊他就遇到我就跟我講說啊這個根本監察院就運作不下去啊那目前除了這750萬因為你們要辦這個世界的會年會的會議你認為有急需之外那其他的呢其他的監察院怎麼辦還是監察院這個機關所有的人都領薪水就好了什麼事情都不用做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3285.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3308.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
跟委員說明監察院的確是相關的業務費用是佔了96%那所以是因為我們是憲政機關相關的監察業務甚至其他的法定的業務比如說像陽光司法國家人權等等的都必須要落實運作所以監察院在3月份的時候有提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3309.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3309.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
導聽外 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3331.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3341.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
李副院長跟我講說電費只有繳到二月後面都是用欠的那你打算怎麼還台電這筆錢難怪台電都被這些政府機關欠電費難怪人家付不出來人家台電會虧損有要補給人家利息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3345.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3369.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
更為說明 有關於本院到114年5月底我們總共已經欠費1150多萬元那其中有關於電費的部分呢 也是324萬我一個建議啦 這個你聽聽看啦假設這個機關不能運作 大家電都關起來也不要來上班然後在家裡睡覺等著領薪水就好啦因為這是 這是立法院把你們刪除的啊 又不是你們願意的啊不然 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3373.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3401.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
大家去立法院 去監察院開電費 連電梯都沒有電可以用啊不能坐電梯啊 還不能開啊節省經費 四日電費 電都關起來 冷氣不要吹對不對我們現在要不要廢除監察院 這是憲政層次的問題但是如果它事實上存在用這樣的方式對待我覺得這是不合理的啊真的沒道理啊 所以預算亂砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3402.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3404.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
面對大罷免才在那邊大緊張所以我就覺得說不能這樣子對外中華民國憲法啦你要修憲 走修憲的程序來嘛而不是立法院去侵奪其他各區各院的權責嘛我們立法院沒有比較大啊大家是平行機構啊也沒有鄰家在你們之上啊也沒有我比你大的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3425.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3447.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我不知道這樣講你這樣不贊成那希望今天你這個經費能夠通過啦如果通不過我覺得就看開一點啦回去跟李鴻鈞報告啦所以就是不要給我們過啊所以我們大家是不是就是解散回家然後一樣照領洗水就好這是你剛講說是我的建議啊好不好好謝謝你好謝謝秉瑞接著請賴思寶委員質詢請在召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3458.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3463.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請監察院的副秘書長請副秘書長還有那個主計總處的副主計長也一起請副主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3480.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3504.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我想今天這筆錢也就750萬而且是中華民國的監察院辦的國際的會議我支持而且我希望就是大家不要再協商了就直接給他直接給他這個出去了可是我要強調的剛才有委員不斷的批評什麼什麼大家倒帶一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3506.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3522.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我在立法院這麼久的時間這一次的總預算審查是第一次有史以來第一次沒有朝野協商朝野協商每一次都是柯建民在那裡胡說八道盤古開天開始講起一講講幾個小時沒辦法進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3524.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3540.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
台灣來產生這些 台灣要負很大責任啦台灣要負很大責任 否則這個朝野犧牲的話你保留在朝野犧牲一定過的啦因為這是提升中華民國的能見度提升台灣的能見度 沒有理由反對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3540.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3557.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
沒有理由反對他所以我先講我的立場就是我支持這一個但是我要想問的就是你的法源在哪裡法源根據什麼法法源為什麼要用第二義北京 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3562.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3587.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
就是說因為第二預備金當時這個22條第二項的規定他首先先尊重立法院審議就是說如果立法院刪減了就不能再動之第二預備金然後後面加了但書就是說保留一個彈性如果是立法院同意的話那就不再出現所以是有但書的就是真的有需要你提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3589.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3616.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
說服立委們基本上是可以的可以用的這個清清楚楚喔沒有說是在那裡啊啊啊開始就很清楚嘛這個現在已經都清楚知道了嘛這個柯建民在去年的1月13日選完之後1月15日就發發想起大罷免偷跑半年前就偷跑明明規定2月1號才能夠來罷免立委才開始運作他事先偷跑 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3617.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3625.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
然後現在知道 喔 主謀是賴清德總統所以可以這麼講啊 這次大報名就是賴清德 家科靜明 兩個狼狽為奸啦整個都這一出啊 然後昨天的 加上昨天的什麼 雜誌說啊雜誌說啊 其實大家對監察院最大的意見啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3643.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3649.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
最大的意見是什麼就是現在民進黨執政這八年來 超過九年了齁把監察院大法官應該中立 應該獨立完全內閣化所以這個副秘書長啊這個你沒辦法回答我是沒有給你聽啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3666.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3673.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
他的雜誌說 總統還在硬拗 越謀越黑他就提到 通過選舉罷免讓這個雜誌就去掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3677.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3694.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
去腐純青啊那就是很簡單的白澳你還講就是去掉非民進黨旗的所以就變成全面執政那就全面獨裁喔所以我就請教副秘書長啊結尾稀釋時權還要顏色化嗎看顏色嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3698.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3721.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
跟委員說明 依照憲法徵修條文第七條的第五項監察委員要超越黨派對啦 要超越黨派啦我到現在為止一直沒有辦法原諒監察院的其中幾個監察委員就是監察委員是御史大夫 怎麼會這麼沒有風格當初在COVID-19的時候要約談陳時中 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3725.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3728.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
然後被蘇貞昌當時候的行政院長 吼回去啊說這個時候怎麼可以約談 陳時中好 那個時候就不敢約談了啊那現在為什麼不約談呢難道 購買疫苗的問題沒有問題嗎快篩劑沒有問題嗎高端的事情沒有問題嗎到現在為止 立法委員要行使這個資料的調閱的職權都丟不到資料啊 重要資料都被塗掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3752.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3780.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
清清楚楚看得到嗎現在的監察院全面的內閣化大法官也是如此這個是本席啊所最痛恨的一個好好的政府的各單位民進黨執政就把他搶搶搶搶到那邊完全完全只有一種聲音這種聲音就是民進黨的聲音混入我族咧就給他戴帽子噢 這個就是中共統禄人就是到底這個樣子這種悲哀在這裡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3782.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3802.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
最後一點我想告訴副秘書長監察院我們在審查的時候副院長李鴻鈞被提名人他在這裡公開承諾因為有委員提到可以不可以公布每位監委的出席率各監委的提案書、調查書、糾團書其實老百姓是很關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3812.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3822.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
為什麼會一直有說這些在對經文說是不是要廢掉幹什麼的就是你們不夠透明這個胡秘書長講一下 崔熙立有沒有公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3824.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3852.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
要跟委員說明有關於監察院委員參與參與院會各常設委員會召集人會議等等的相關的會議的記錄都會完全公開透明會公布然後另外有關於委員的提案數調查數提案糾纏的相關的案件數都會在我們的網路上面公開會每個月都有相關的統計數據所以是 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3854.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3866.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
監察院事實上是盡量朝公開透明把相關的職權行使都讓我看到了監委的出席率沒有公佈喔監委的出席率沒有公佈喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3867.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3893.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
報告委員是他的會議紀錄裡面有出席率?會議紀錄不是啦不是啦他要去整理我們就是你要公佈因為這是李鴻鈞答應在提名的時候他公開承諾要公佈監委的出席率監委你說啊會議紀錄自己去找怎麼會這個樣子呢可以吧這個可以你行政處可以做得到吧回去告訴李副院長他公開承諾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3894.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3922.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
他跟我承諾了 我的結論 我的時間到了 我的結論就是我支持這一次的750萬 因為這個增加提高中華民國 提高台灣的能見度的一個中華會議沒有理由不支持 我支持但是 但是李鴻鈞公開承諾的要公佈每位監委的出席率要做到 好不好你回去報告一個月內 我們希望就能夠看得到答案好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3923.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3926.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好 謝謝賴昭偉接著請郭公文委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3957.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3969.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
主席有請陳慧娟副組長還有警察院王秘書長好 請副組長還有我們的王代理秘書長我先就教於這個王秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3975.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3990.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這個組織當中其實已經辦了今年算辦第三次嘛是三次也是動用二倍機嘛對不對好像編列是來不及嘛那這一次在法院上主計處也應該是OK嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3992.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4010.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
其實就這個部分其實剛剛那個賴氏保委員也強調說站在一個國家立場他不會反對我相信從一個理性的一個問政來說的話都應該要支持才對不過就整個邦交國的這一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4012.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4026.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
沒有邦交國的部分但是我們要鞏固邦交我看起來這邊好像沒有邦交國主要是一個美中之間的外交戰場我們需要跟這些人聯繫一些關係吧你不如稍微表述一下過去主辦的兩場有沒有什麼樣的實質的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4029.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4054.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
跟委員報告就是我們辦過兩次一個是在2011跟2019對我知道實質的成效是什麼這個我都知道其實呢就是因為監察院是April的正式會員是有投票權那參加參加相關的年會甚至主辦相關的年會這個是會員的重要的義務然後那真的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4055.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4082.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
沒有 因為你扯到外交我就說你在外交上有什麼實質的成效啦我是覺得你這個部分要多琢磨一點啦就是說因為跟著這樣連結之後那將來有一個什麼樣多一個互動或什麼這樣會比較好一點我意思是說這樣會更具有說服力嘛因為畢竟是國際組織嘛對啊而不是說舉辦一次會議而已我是跟你建議說最好是這樣會更具有說服力那第二個的部分呢就預算上呢基本上呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4083.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4097.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
反而現在的物價越來越高你相對於14年來說預算不增反減這讓人家很意外啊監察院比較會省錢嗎還是以前的監察院比較浪費還是怎麼樣的原因你不能說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4098.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4114.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
跟委員說明其實每次監察院在編列預算的時候都非常的確實跟嚴謹那以前不確實囉每次都是非常確實嚴謹那為什麼以前多現在少14年前我跟委員報告一下我們2011年編列777萬777萬2000元我看到是779萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4121.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4127.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
777萬2千元然後結束的時候我們有核算過總支出是669萬9千872元在2019年我們編列了751萬5千5百元然後最後總支出是616萬7千982元其實我們也有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4145.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4172.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
就決算的部分其實沒有預算數那麼多啦還差了一百多萬啦所以說其實這次也不用變那麼多啦好 這樣我了解就決算數的差別好 那另外一個部分據我了解今年的預算那個監察院被砍了96%業務費雖然連整個伊甸基金會的人員都減半還積欠先知到五月底還積欠一百三十三萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4176.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4186.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這個真的情何以堪啊 監察院積欠弱勢團體這有沒有什麼方式可以解套這個萬一弱勢團體以後來跟我們陳情的話你覺得我們要怎麼處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4190.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4207.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
就是有關於醫店在幫忙協助監察院有關於整個全院的清潔的部分那其實一開始我們是15位可是因為預算被整個刪除所以我們就保留了7位7位完全都是工作量不是加倍了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4208.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4231.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
都是生長人士那相關的工作呢我們在院裡面也盡量去我簡單的講接下來這些基線的款項什麼時候要準備來處理你們怎麼處理這有可能繼續動用預備金額的方式嗎預備金額夠不夠待會我會問那個副作你們是有打算用同樣的模式嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4232.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4242.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
跟委員說明除了這750以外的確監察院還有跟行政院透過行政院去請求另外的7900萬那什麼時候再送進來一次再送進來變成我們還要審兩次副主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4254.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4274.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
就是說監察院這個因為他是國際會議舉辦在即所以他這個案子送的比較快另外我有盤點過就是說包括監察院其他的業務費的不足以及總統府或者是行政院等等有另外第二批也會來動惡 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4275.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4294.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那你們有去統計過不論是行政院或者總統府或者是說監察院他可能動資到二倍金的部分的金額目前大概多少因為你二倍金總共也不過八十億啊而且現階段就我理解的部分已經動用了二十幾億了嘛應該不足六十億了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4298.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4314.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
目前第二批會送過來是1.5億那是哪幾個單位總統府行政院不當黨產委員會跟監察院行政院黨產委員會跟監察院大概什麼時候會再送 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4315.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4338.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這個就我們了解我們大院的那個院會已經交付審查就是等委員會看什麼時候安排如果是這樣子的話那我再問一下那個監察院監察院現在其實對立委官員來說最恐怖的事情就是要職本申報這個到底有沒有辦法什麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4341.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4355.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
跟委員說明就是因為我們的業務費用真的是36%所以不是只有財深的他的相關的費用要我簡單的問啦等到二倍金下一次二倍金的使用這1.5億當中能不能解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4357.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4378.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
可以可以齁就可以一任而解齁我跟你講要廢監察案不容易啊因為你怎麼廢你也廢不了這個監察的職權啊他只是分屬在體制的不同部門而已監察權還是很重要希望在這個預算被刪減的過程當中我們的監察權還是可以順利運作得以落實齁繼續加油副局長我最後問你一個問題齁副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4380.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4404.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
最近有關於北約組織希望國防預算達到GDP的5%我們台灣目前在美方的要求之下也有喊到3也有喊到5也有喊到10實際上我們今年總體的國防預算總共加起來是2.45%明年的概算已經出來了有沒有可能再增加在努力當中還在努力當中總統就說3% |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4407.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4424.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
有沒有可能達到3%至少3%我們就朝這個目標來朝這個目標在努力所以說明年的國防預算至少3%就是因為國防預算就它的來源包括年度預算對我知道啦就是總統的目標你會不會把它達成對我們會朝這個目標來努力好謝謝你 謝謝接著請黃國昌委員質詢黃國昌 黃國昌 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4437.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4452.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
黃國昌委員質詢好 謝謝主席 麻煩有請主計總處副主計長兼查院代理秘書長好 副主計長跟代理秘書長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4460.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4469.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
兩位好,先請教副主席長,今天主席長請教去年6月3日通過原住民淨法補償,每公頃調升到6萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4472.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4499.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那這個法律通過了以後行政院一度有抗拒後來行政院院長找了朝野黨團的代表到行政院去開會做成一個決議說今年要透過辦理追加預算的方式來予以支應請問什麼時候要提出來目前在會診當中因為還有聯同其他的項目可能也會辦追加什麼時候要提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4501.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4527.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
會診的時程我不是很確定 但是會盡快妳不是副主計長嗎是那誰知道 只有卓榮泰知道嗎不是 因為現在就是說針對總共要提追加的項目還在做最後確認當中所以什麼時候會提出來我們 就我的了解可能看是不是這一兩個月吧回去喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4528.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4557.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
提醒一下卓榮泰院長承諾的事要做到上一次總執行的時候高精素美委員直接問行政院院長卓榮泰在那邊吱吱嗚嗚的到底要不要依照上次在行政院他召集各黨團的代表提追加預算不敢承諾回去提醒卓榮泰院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4558.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4567.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
簽字的是他如果連這種簽字的卓榮泰都不認帳的話這個行政院院長講的話還有誰會相信可以嗎可以嗎可以回去轉告卓榮泰嗎辦理追加的部分我們會來處理會來處理嗎好說得非常好接下來請先查閱委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4587.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4612.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
之前啊監察委員包括秘書長違法濫用公務車啊輿論軒然大波上一次我在司法法治委員會請教你啊說李鴻鈞說要立即啟動調查啊立即是多立即結果你上次跟我說紀律委員會連開會的時間都沒有訂嘛好那現在呢紀律委員會終於訂了開會的時間了 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4616.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4633.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
從五月底的立即到七月現在要開會了好那我們就來檢討一下之前有監委葉大華說啊這個是要怎麼調查這個是涉及事務要怎麼立案調查請問葉大華監委講的是對的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4636.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4657.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
跟委員說明我上次也說明過其實在監察院的紀律委員會所處理的事務都是監察委員的涉及事務所以葉大法講的不對嗎這是委員的觀點第二個問題紀律委員會開會以前監察院有沒有確認過這七名紀律委員會的委員自己有沒有濫用公務車的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4667.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4678.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
你不要等到紀律委員會開會的時候被人家爆出來原來紀律委員會的委員自己也濫用公務車就難看了這件事情監察院有沒有先確認過紀律委員會開會的部分只要三分之二的我知道這個法定門檻我都知道我只是要問監察院確認過這七名紀律委員會的委員自己有沒有濫用公務車有確認過了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4697.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4712.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
報告委員 這個不是法定程序這不是法定程序 那我就問嘛依照所謂監察院的法定程序紀律委員會的委員如果自己有濫用公務車的話他還可以針對這個紀律事項開會成為委員嗎紀律委員會也有迴避的規定也有迴避的規定嘛到目前為止7月要開會有沒有委員自己要迴避的 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4724.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4748.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
就我所知目前是沒有的沒關係啊我今天藉由公開的質詢啊是是在提醒這紀律委員會親民委員啊想清楚啊不要到時候紀律委員會開會啊連紀律委員自己都被爆出來濫用公務車啊到時候就很難看了啦到時候就很難看了那接下來就有個問題啊紀律委員會處理的是監委嘛對不對那祕書長咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4752.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4779.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
跟委員說明就是上次我也說明過其實是台北地檢署這兩回事吧監察法的規定施行細則的規定你作為代理秘書長應該很清楚檢調是檢調監察院是監察院你們自己的施行細則就寫得很清楚了那我現在問題來了自立委員會只處理監委 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4781.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4786.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
讓秘書長處理不處理接下來監察院要怎麼辦我跟委員說明記憶委員會他們處理的方式有非常的多元處理的方式當然是多元嘛我現在先問你嘛我們依法論法記憶委員會處理的對象是不是限於監委還是包括秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4808.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4833.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
原則上是處理監委是沒有錯你講原則上是監委有例外嗎可是就是如果因為紀律委員會也可以立案調查立案調查是只有紀律委員會才能立案調查還是一般的監委就可以立案調查紀律委員會也可以沒有這是兩回事嘛紀律委員會我就說了他處理的對象是監委嘛那現在針對秘書長的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4834.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4854.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
你們其他的監委有要立案調查嗎跟委員說明我們的新聞稿裡面也有提到到如果這個案件經過紀律委員會立案調查他的調查範圍他的調查事項完全要尊重調查委員的的框定這樣對啊但問題他的對象根本不一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4856.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4885.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我有說錯嗎就是如果紀律委員會就是立案調查如果紀律委員會立案調查他的立案調查是經過監察院的同意去立案調查立案調查的時候不是啊你為什麼繼續啊在扯紀律委員會我搞不懂現在我問你對象是秘書長秘書長是紀律委員會要處理的範圍嗎這個問題有這麼難懂嗎你作為代理秘書長監察院自己主管的法規都不熟嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4887.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4911.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我剛剛說明是說來我直接跟你講啦現在涉案的監委有三名喔他們自己針對其他的公務員濫用公務車他們提過彈劾案喔他們提過彈劾案喔他們自己去彈劾其他的公務員喔說這些公務員濫用公務車要被彈劾喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4913.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4934.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
來 法規上監察委員可不可以被彈劾可以吧可以秘書長可不可以被彈劾可以辭職以後的秘書長可不可以被彈劾可以過去有沒有秘書長被彈劾過的有的有嘛我們現在喔 接下來全民睜大眼睛看監察委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4938.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4954.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
自己濫用公務車去彈劾公務員濫用公務車這幾個監委到今天還賴在位置上我看的是瞠目結舌啦報告委員這幾個那他們是打算怎麼樣利用監察院的紀律委員會打算關關相護嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4956.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4984.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這幾個彈劾案我們有了解一下有三個彈劾案都是有關於公務車使用的部分可是這三個彈劾案完全不是單單針對公務車的使用都有其他的所以什麼你現在急著開始幫這些監委開脫了這麼急喔委員我只是說明事實這麼急著開始幫他們開脫了全民都在看啊你們看時間上面要怎麼拖延 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4985.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5005.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
最後結果終究是要出來的啦結果終究是要出來的啦我希望監察院不要把副院長對全民所做的承諾當成空爆彈好 謝謝 謝謝國昌委員接著我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5020.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5040.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
主席 在場的委員先進 列席的政府機關長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體 記者 女士先生有請我們行政院主計總處的陳副主計長監察院的王代理秘書長 以及紀律委員會的正執行秘書王代理秘書長 還有我們的紀律委員會正執行秘書 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5044.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5073.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
好 副主席長好 代理副主席長好還有鄭執行秘書好來鄭執行秘書請教一下剛剛的前面黃委員說如果委員身兼紀律委員就應該對自己的涉及紀律事件迴避我想這是一個基本的立衝的迴避原則那如果某黨的前任黨主席因為涉貪遭檢調調查司法審判那繼任的黨主席可不可以在立法院去質詢司法院或法務部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5077.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5095.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這個部分我不清楚因為前委員的問題不知道如何回答請你請回沒關係好 今天我要正式談的題目民進黨廢考間歡迎藍白根治廢紙錢應首發首先維持運作來 請教代理秘書長台灣第三次主辦APOR的年會經費哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5097.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5117.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
跟委員說明,我們有關APRIL的年會是放在監察院114年的中央政府總預算案裡面那被誰刪除了?立法院多數刪除了?是好,來,副主席長我們剛剛也聽你解釋過了,動用第二頁邊境的法源依據,根據我們預算法下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5118.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5141.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
第22條第二項立法院審議刪除或刪減之預算項目及金額不得動之預備金對不對對你剛剛有講了嘛但是後段但法定經費或經立法院同意者不再實現那請問今天我們是來問剛剛那一筆被刪除預算是法定經費或者要那一筆經費被立法院同意的才不再實現 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5143.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5167.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
對,我們是要針對原先刪減然後現在是不是立法院同意讓我們動之所以立法院同意之後就可以嗎?是好,謝謝,請回來,接下來,蔡理秘書長來,我們看一下下一頁這個,看起來大家都有一點年紀齁在20年前有一個彩券廣告啊就是一個爸爸帶著小孩常常帶著小孩說,喜歡嗎?爸爸買給你因為中了彩券什麼都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5168.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5196.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
現在我們看到民眾黨就像被寵害的小孩要修憲就全靠這個父爸爸動不動就要國民黨支持他一廂情願的提案請問你知不知道修憲提案是國會過半數就有決定嗎並不是這樣依照憲法申修條文第12條的規定要多少要四分之三四分之三對不對好那我們來看一下現在在野黨尤其是民眾黨的黨主席他說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5197.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5215.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
要開始來修改要成立要修改憲法對不對廢除早已失去存在價值輪回酬勇養老與政治打手的監察院以完善國家憲政體制啟動我的憲政改革到徵求條文的第三條第四條第七條我們看到了他需要得到多少人連署要 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5216.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5244.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
29個那他現在有32個結果我們看了一下父爸爸給他多少個民眾黨8個國民黨24個這24個當中有13個不需要面對罷免包括3加1的原住民委員包括部分區的委員以及包括像陳玉珍這種僥倖的沒有被提罷免的結果13位不需要面對罷免的勇敢的來參加這個提案但是我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5246.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5261.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
這個提案誰跑掉了王宏威這個面對罷免的委員說這不是藍白河案只開放個人連署誰連署了徐宇珍國民黨主發會的主委撤遷欸 主發會的主委撤遷你不是不溫馨的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5263.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5276.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
為什麼撤簽 因為可能擔心有案再生啊現在這個司法檢調單位在查未照臨署假冒冒名臨署的 已經查到哪裡了查到國民黨主發會的副主任了欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5278.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5300.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
所以怎麼樣 跑掉了 看下一頁所以我們看到了 剛剛那個就是什麼不怕死的碰到不知死活的還有11個不知死活的 面對罷免的在那邊聯合的提案來我們問一下 廢除監察院 朱立倫要改黨章嗎對不起 在您面前 你有沒有看過國民黨的黨章沒有 國民黨的黨章叫奉行五權憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5302.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5328.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
先把正確條文 剛剛說的是不是認真決你認為朱立民主席會同意修改國民黨黨章嗎我沒有辦法很難回答 因為你也不是國民黨黨員OK 好 來我們看一下但是修憲委員會 民進黨始終監除廢稿間這是在110年第十屆的時候我們成立了修憲委員會而且我們要求刪除第六條第七條將考證跟條件廢掉這些人包括柯建民 劉世芳跟蔡世應 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5329.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5356.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
好 我們讓這個修憲主張是這樣 那你來猜猜看當年這個修憲提案 國民黨修憲委員有沒有參加不曉得 因為第十屆我在 我是修憲委員會的五個召集委員之一結果呢 修憲遇到廢考間修憲委員會 國民黨十四個委員 三次會議通通缺席不敢面對 您覺得國民黨真心要廢除考試院檢察院嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5360.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5375.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
從歷史斑斑可考,你覺得他是真心的嗎?檢察院完全尊重修憲的程序好,檢察院完全尊重立法院的修憲委員會但是立法院自己的修憲委員會,藍委全部落跑,再下來我們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5376.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5395.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
其實我想,縱使目前你們人在監察院,但是我們也可以去思考國家怎麼進步但是,我民進黨主張廢除監察院有配套,人權保障不能少,貪官污吏跑不掉首先,目前國家人權會是不是在監察院裡面?是的,在1月09日那如果監察院廢掉了,你覺得國家人權會要不要繼續維持? |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5396.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5423.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
這是國家重要的一個機構 重要的機構好 再來我們目前現在負責工作人員採訪申報對不對 是貪官物力不能跑掉 申報機關是監察院監察院如果廢掉了 申報的機制要不要維持當然當然要維持 好 謝謝所以結論我們看一下國民黨要挺白修憲 先問問中南海為什麼 因為修憲提案通過之後他經過中華民國自由地區人民投票 複決這是公民投票結果國台辦說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5425.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5448.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
現在國台辦說台灣的人民不要罷免國民黨可是在2022年中共的發言人馬曉光說所謂的修憲公投根本就是為了修憲謀獨而鋪路造勢所以說國民黨要配合王國昌黨主席配合民眾黨去修憲要不要先問問中南海往下看 最後結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5450.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5469.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那林秘書長為了維護我國國際聲譽 善盡會員義務保障世界各國國會的權益你是不是同意也支持我們盡速同意動之第二預備金是的 謝謝委員好 那也謝謝你們如果有認識國民黨員國民黨要廢考試院 要廢監察院有要廢監察院先修綱檔章再來談修憲 謝謝好 接著請省劃會委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5487.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5490.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
主席我們請代理秘書長我們請王代理秘書長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5499.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5522.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
議員長早我想剛才很多委員大家在質詢大概都已經一再慘明就是說今天的這樣子的提案它是完全是依照這個預算法第22條第二項的後段這個有關單書的規定就是預算被刪除之後不能動用第二預備金除非兩個狀況第一種狀況是它是這個法定經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5523.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5548.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
第二種情況可以動用第二預備金就是經立法院同意所以你們今天就是來尋求立法院的同意對不對就是依照預算法第二色條第二項後段對不對所以這個部分我想應該沒有爭議啦齁那因此我們就來重點就在看說今天你們來為什麼監察院被刪除那麼多那麼多的預算包括水電費什麼這些預算全部都被刪除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5549.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5559.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
但是為什麼你們今天就是提這一條來動用第二預約金這個是立法院應該問的道理嘛對不對就是說你們被刪除那麼多為什麼要動用這一條這一條是我們這個要舉辦這個給這個國際監察組織裡面的這個澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會嘛這個年會預計什麼時候舉辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5574.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5597.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
各位所以說明今年的9月3號到5號所以時間很迫近所以剩下七、八兩個月的準備嘛所以事實上是很急迫啦為什麼要動用預備金不等追加減預算其實就是因為時間真的很急迫了那這個到底這個年會這個是什麼樣的組織為什麼會在這個你們的預算會在立法院的審查中會刪除在司法法治委員會討論有討論到這個案子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5601.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5624.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我是司法法治委員會的我們是編列在議事業務那議事業務編了1800多萬那750萬是在其中那在司法法治委員會那時候也是全案保留送協商啦全案保留送協商之後協商出來的結論就是說大家沒有共識送表決啦那送表決之後那天測驗一直表決到天亮表決到 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5625.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5641.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
刪除預算超過本預算數的那個荒謬的這個在野黨的這個荒謬的刪除預算大戲裡面被刪除的嘛 對不對所以我們來看看說這樣子的預算今天也有國民黨委員來講說這個預算我們支持啊那當時為什麼會被刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5642.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5652.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
就是因為當初的刪除的過程荒謬那我們今天來就是把它提出來我們來好好討論說這個預算到底需不需要我們所參加的我們這個國際監察組織它有幾個會員國 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5659.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5671.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
國際監察組織到目前為止有257個會員國我們國家的會員是隸屬於APOR就是澳紐及太平洋總共有18個會員國這個國際監察組織它總共分六個區域它分成非洲、亞洲、歐洲、北美洲 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5680.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5690.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
加勒比亞跟拉丁美洲第六個就是我們紐澳跟太平洋所以它是一個正式的國際組織這樣的國際組織我們在哪一年加入的在1994年到現在30年 1994年1994年我們加入我們用什麼樣的名義加入中華台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5702.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5728.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
台灣經濟共同體中華民國監察院我們用中華民國監察院加入這個是現在我們非常非常少數用中華民國的名義加入的國際組織三十年這個組織有我們參加這個組織三十年三十年來我們舉辦過幾次年會我們舉辦過三次年會兩次吧這是第三次這是要舉辦第三次三十年來我們才爭取到兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5730.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5755.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
一次在2011年是馬英九總統任內爭取的另外一個是2019年那我們從2022年開始爭取今年主辦經過兩年的努力我們今年終於可以主辦了這樣子的在台灣現在在國際社會上面這樣子的條件我們在所有的組織有的組織完全連參與的機會都沒有有的組織就你一定要矮化才能參與這麼難得有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5759.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5775.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
以中華民國名義參加的國際組織我們參加了三十年才辦過兩次年會今年要爭取辦第三次結果這已經剩兩個月囉如果今天我們預算不讓你們動用第二預備金我們沒錢我們宣布兩個月前宣布不辦了我們台灣在這個國際組織要怎麼站起來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5782.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5800.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
台灣已經這麼少的國際組織用中華民國民意參與結果我們跟人家說我們今年要辦年會然後剩下兩個月說我們不辦了年會說其他國家會問你為什麼啊為什麼你們不辦說對不起因為我們在野黨把我們的預算刪除了所以我們沒得辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5802.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5815.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這種把國內政治鬥爭去影響到國家在參與國際社會的利益這個就是典型標準這就是為什麼人民會看不下這一屆立法院的最大的原因大家對於國內政策對於監察院可以有很多意見可以提案要求修建廢除監察院但是這種參與國際組織這台灣國際面子這台灣的國際信用 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5834.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5859.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這個你再怎麼樣野蠻再怎麼內鬥都不能夠去危害到國家的這個利益更何況這個國際監察組織事實上從2018年開始中國他們本來不是一個民主國家沒有國會沒有什麼院但是中國在2018年他設立了一個國家監察委員會對不對他想要用這個國家監察委員會他想要加入這個組織把中華民國踢出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5861.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5887.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
在這麼艱難的時候我們在野黨刪除這個預算讓我們國際信用破產讓我們下一次要再爭取舉辦第三次的機會也沒了以後誰還會讓你辦啊你們在兩個月舉辦前兩個月跟我宣布取消所以這部分我覺得這個是台灣的國家利益這部分我希望說我們今天動用第二預備金我們要應該立法院應該要通過讓你們辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5889.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5899.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
你可以說台北市議會因為蔣萬安市場做得很爛所以在舉辦前兩個月我說把你失壯運的預算全部砍光讓你辦不了失壯運這個就是我所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5904.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5924.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我們內部在野黨黨派政治立場不同我們政治觀點不同我們所扮演的角色不同都沒有關係但是所有的這些包括預算刪除包括我們這些都不能夠損及台灣的國家利益這才是在野黨應該有的這也是現在人民對於這一屆立法院所真正不滿的地方想要把台灣踢出Apple這個年會 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5931.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5943.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
只有兩個人一個就是中共他們2018年處心積慮第二就是在野黨刪除這個預算讓我們國際信用擴展以上好 謝謝接著請羅志強委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5958.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5963.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
有請王代理秘書長王代理秘書長其實在預算審查當中你有沒有發現司法院也好考試院也好預算大家有意見的比較少監察院大家意見就很多對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5984.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6012.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那我告訴你為什麼我先從幾件事來看為什麼監察院大家對你的預算意見那麼多坦白講要開國際年會我覺得沒什麼問題但監察院自己想想看為什麼對監察院的預算大家意見那麼多我想請教你這句話你看是誰說的死刑作為一個結束個人生命的終極懲罰不管採取什麼樣的執行方式都是殘忍不人道死刑是酷刑不能以合法制裁知名豁免責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6014.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6028.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
八成民眾不贊成廢除死刑做出台灣民意對廢死強烈不滿的結論但不能合理理解台灣社會的真實面貌下如何得證國家發動死刑的正當性這些話是誰說的委員我不能確定是不是國家人權委員會沒錯啊就是國家人權委員會六月份所出的年報 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6040.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6056.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
事實上為什麼從這個地方開始講我想請問你們還特別強調廢除死刑是深化民主跟落實轉型正義的重要步驟我想請問戴琳秘書長廢除死刑跟深化民主有什麼關係因為這是國家人權委員會的正式主張我可不可以請經理回答可以啊 請人權委員會來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6069.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6097.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
是 報告委員跟委員說明一下就是國家安全委員會其實是站在守護生命權的立場啦那因為我們國家已經所以被害人的生命權不重要因為主要是因為我們國家已經簽訂了兩公約那你知道施朵講的女老師你要不要描述一下怎麼受殘忍的虐待虐殺其實我們是扮演著一個那你知不知道今天最近有渣器集團綁架61個被害者綁架61個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6099.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6127.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我想請教人權會這六十一個人的人權在哪裡其實人權會我們我想問你哪一個政府執政之下有六十一個人被綁架的一次綁架六十一個人你聽過嗎你有沒有聽過先跑出人權會立場有聽過嗎有時綁架人數最多就是在我們民進黨執政的時候你也有去關心這些人權嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6129.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6155.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我們人權會其實這幾年在廢死的工作上面其實我們同時也針對受害者的家屬我們其實現在也針對受害者的家屬所以人權會沒有心心念念要廢死啊我們今年其實也針對受害者的家屬然後在這個部分開始著力你一邊跟大家講你要廢除死刑一邊跟大家講你關心受害者的家屬你去講給受害者家屬聽啦你不用講給受害者家屬聽你講給誰聽我告訴你你知道那個61個被綁架的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6159.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6180.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
被未讀被惦記被虐待活活虐待三個人死掉虐死三個人一樣啊免死你去跟那個被虐死那三個人講講人權好不好要不要去拜訪家屬講人權謝謝你的無語我告訴你這是為什麼第一個我要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6189.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6215.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
你憑什麼說不支持死刑反對廢除死刑是不民主的什麼叫做廢除死刑叫深化民主那不廢除死刑就不是深化民主這你們人權會的結論總不能否認吧在現在的是不是嘛一百多個國家裡面其實目前還有存留死刑的國家已經很少了而且重點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6216.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6225.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
民進黨最愛拿著美國做例子美國也有一些州是沒有廢除死刑啊所以他也沒有深化民主啊這我們都了解不要拿民主做標籤就這麼簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6228.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6258.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這是你們人權會自己想要做的迎合執政黨廢除死刑的黨綱那是政治意識形態其實這個不是迎合因為我們已經簽署兩公約沒關係啦你去跟那三位被虐死的家被虐死的受害者講這些啦當初兩公約在簽的時候是在馬總統時代我很簡單我要講一個結論我要告訴你一個結論兩公約你也不要拿來框我兩公約也沒說要廢除死刑兩公約只是說要嚴格謹慎的執行死刑對啊你也講對那你拿兩公約出來說嘴 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6259.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6285.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
因為很多國家如果說不執行執行的話是可以排除第五條的我做一個很簡單的結論你光你今天監察院站在八成民意反對廢死的民意的對立面我就不知道監察院在幹嘛在講本務想請教一下我們代理秘書長剛好看前面的委員都有質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6287.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6313.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
李俊詩用公務車已經請辭那想請問現在行政調查結果進度到什麼程度目前有關於 我們副院長也有說明然後會 目前檢調在處理中有六個案件然後另外紀律委員會也有排案要開會我們的副院長就胡說八道什麼叫檢調在處理就不能處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6315.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6340.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
法規規定得很清楚並不因此停止調查所以搞了半天我剛剛前面講先站在八成的反對廢死的民意的對立面就是監察院然後第二個自己是要端正關真的單位結果呢 涉入一大堆問題第三個 時間到我也不占用時間 很簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6342.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6370.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
到現在為止監察院到底交出了什麼監督行政權的成績單出來給大家看不是大家要刪監察院預算而是監察院真的是做的實在是讓大家覺得這個單位存在跟沒存在到底差別在哪裡關鍵還一件事情我希望陳菊院長早日康復我是真心的希望祝福她身體健康可是一個院長請假多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6373.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6400.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
目前院長在請假中請假多久你看連我們的代理秘書長都不知道院長請假多久還沒有半年快半年快半年那不就是某種程度我也要必須說那不是證明監察院院長不在半年也是沒有關係嗎行政院院長可以半年不在嗎司法院院長半年不在嗎所以我還是要回頭說啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6401.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6423.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
今天年會的預算我沒什麼意見啦國際會議要舉辦沒什麼意見但監察院真的我還是回頭當然也不能怪你們啦我說過啦監察院的整個制度設計就是有問題我今天跟黃國昌委員已經一起提案就是針對修憲要啟動調整監察院的憲政職程 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6426.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6438.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
讓監察院變成一個民意機關我覺得比較能夠解決現在的問題不會背離民意甚至不會因為被行政權牽絆而不敢執行監察權的職務謝謝好 謝謝羅志強接著我們請莊瑞雄委員質詢馬力 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6454.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6480.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
謝謝最美麗的趙薇 謝謝有請我們監察院代理秘書長王貞華代理秘書長請代理秘書長我也一個起來就好 秘書長委員好我來請教 今天我們提到的我看你整個報告裡面是國際監察組織成立這50年裡面現有111個國家你到底多少的會員機關加入啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6481.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6482.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我看你剛提到的是257啦但是你的報告是怎麼寫259 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6489.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6517.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
會員有時候是會有一些波動的那我們的資料是257兩天就波動了不會吧 對到底是257還是259目前 截至目前是259那因為會員有時候時間會退有一些原因有可能加入或退出或是他名稱更改所以最近到目前截至為止的話是多少是259 對259 是這樣剛才代理秘書可能是口誤啦那我想來請教啦其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6519.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6534.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
國人的期待我相信共識也是我們整個台灣走得出去這是國人的一個期待一月份那個時候可能藍白的委員心情不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6535.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6550.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
預算拿起來就給你這樣砍這種舉辦國際年會的一個經費你說在九月份就要舉辦了嗎現在都已經快七月了我們還必須要用最佳預算的一個方式這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6551.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6577.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
一笑大方這個其實在國際上我看這被人家看笑話了但是我還是要請教代理秘書長就是說可以請你跟國人來做一個說明為什麼這項國際組織的一個參與它的意義你們覺得非常重大然後這一切的論壇提升台灣的國際能見度或者人權外交跟監察治理的改革裡面到底會有什麼樣的一個幫助請你先說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6579.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6593.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
其實就是監察院有這樣子的一個國際監察組織的參與是不容易的是不容易的那他這個組織最重要的重點就是在監察跟人權還有善治有幾個這樣子的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6593.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6615.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那我們這次舉辦這個年會呢會會邀請APRIL的會員IOI的會員而且我們這次的主題呢其實是focus在監察室的一個任務那跟人權有關然後另外就是我們會討論到國家反酷刑就是酷刑防治的一個相關的機制NPM那這個也是一個重要人權公約應該要建立的相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6620.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6634.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
然後另外一個主題是有關於AI跟人權還有民主法治等多元的議題這個其實是能夠這個議題非常的有意義而且能夠增加我們國家的國際能見度然後對於整個監察治理透過參與會員持續的參與會員持續的參與重要的相關的活動能夠提升國家的能見度 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6649.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6669.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
讓大家都看得到中華民國有監察組織這樣子的一個機構堂堂的一個憲政機關監察院連這樣的一個業務費舉辦的一個國際活動也被立法院把這個預算給砍掉我看你們的一個回應 軟趴趴 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6670.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6690.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我猜你也算個贏,這個我覺得是非常可惜的一個地方你目前在國際不承認,我們中華民國的情況之下任何有機會走出去,其實這會是國人的一個共識今天如果台灣沒有辦法參與,或者舉辦這樣的一個國際的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6693.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6704.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
誰最開心 中國最開心啊 中國最開心啊最開心的就是中國所以其實呢 今天這樣的一個 今天這個整個預算的一個追擊 二倍我倒認為啊 國民黨跟台灣民眾黨沒那麼好打 你知道嗎 沒那麼好打我又靜靜地看 我又看這一筆的預算他們到底會不會繼續來反對 可以反對多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6723.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6751.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我看過去民主進步黨我們也一直主張要把監察院給廢掉那我現在看到台灣民眾黨跟中國國民黨的一些立法委員啊他們也去連署啦他們說要把整個監察院把它給廢掉了我們去回顧一下2015年啊就是因為中國國民黨堅持綁不在籍投票才會破局啊否則2015年啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6753.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6771.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
廢掉監察院就會成案了2022年啊那是因為中國國民黨全面去杯葛修建委員會到最後只送出18歲的一個公民權沒有辦法去處理五權體制的一個改革啊這個接下來如果說監察院如果說退場了 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6772.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6783.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
人權委員會到底何去何從這個是我比較關注的一個地方啦就是說監察院廢掉那廢掉就廢掉嘛廢掉有什麼關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6785.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6813.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
反正大家都這個院那民眾也可能覺得監察院你也不幹了啦但是這個人權委員會啊我就覺得有這個必要啦所以我倒想就這個機會來就教我們代理秘書長就是說啊如果監察院退場以後啊那你人權委員會你從2020年設立到現在你扮演的諸多的一個角色我們也提供聯合國國際專家審查我國的在地國際的一個報告的一個重要的一個依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6814.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6815.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那如果開掉了,你又要看什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6819.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6847.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
2020年國家人權委員會在監察院設置其實在設置之前就有非常多的討論是不是放在總統府啊行政院啊甚至立法院最後是選定在監察院其實它重要的重點就是監察院能夠獨立然後呢能夠辦理好人權監督的一個角色那其實國家人權委員會在這幾年來也有非常多的好的表現除了剛剛委員說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6848.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6871.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
獨立評估意見以外還有非常多的專案報告系統性訪查等等的還有推廣人權教育都是非常重要的一個成果跟成就那如果監察院如果因修憲的程序而廢除的話其實不只是國家人權委員會還有很多法定的職權比如說像陽光四法就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6872.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6897.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
公職人才申報法然後利益衝突政治獻金等等的還有才通過的公益階幣者保護法都是把監察院放得非常重要的角色像這樣子的一個如果監察院不存在那如何來做配置或者是配套的確是要請國人非常去注意的去研究是會有非常重大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6898.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6912.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我國長期受到中國這樣在國際上的一個打壓那這一次啊我們有這個機會來舉辦這樣的一個年會啊其實本身就一個深具一個指標性的一個意義啊尤其是我們可以這樣的參與國際上的一個組織然後呢讓他過去實質交流經驗超過了30年 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6918.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6941.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
可以讓他繼續來做一個延續啦我看到2024年透明度透明國際公布的一個全球青年印象指數裡面我們台灣排名也上升到25名創下歷年來最佳的一個表現也就顯示了台灣聯能治理能力逐步獲得國際上的一個認可當然這未必跟監察院有關係那是整個國家的一個治理 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6942.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6965.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
但是我們也真的要期許啦我特別在這邊提醒在野黨的好朋友不論國內的政爭我們如何的一個激烈台灣的一個國際上的一個參與這個部分其實都要凝聚更高國人的一個共識國人也大部分都期待所以我今天倒是要眼睜睜的來看我要很仔細的來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6967.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6977.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
看在野黨今天對這一筆預算你們的態度到底是怎麼樣我們也期待啊 妻子兼裁員來 好好準備了啦我大膽給斷啦國民黨在這條裡面啊 沒那麼好打啦 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝鍾瑞雄委員接著我們請顏寬恆委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6996.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7009.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
謝謝主席主席各位列席官員大家早主席有請監察院王代理秘書長好我們請監察院王代理秘書長委員好秘書長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7012.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7036.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這次解凍案主要是為了因應第37屆澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會及人權國際研討會在台灣舉辦那所以排這個解凍案那這個研討會在我們監察院陳菊院長也多次表示希望能夠再次爭取到台灣來舉辦那持續的推動國際監察交流合作讓世界看見台灣在2019年舉辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7040.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7048.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
過後 時隔六年再度回到台灣我們歡迎來自世界各地的人才與我們交流讓他探討各類人權相關的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7050.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7075.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
由監察院主辦的APOR聯會需要接待許多來自不同國家的官員那爭取到APPLE在台舉辦將會使台灣國際能見度更加的提升那請問秘書長要怎麼樣才能讓人相信監察院能夠在實務上確實發揮人權保障的功能請簡單說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7078.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7082.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
跟各位說明其實這次監察院是要爭取能夠繼續的主辦APPLE的年會其實透過這樣子一個主辦國際組織年會的這樣子一個機會其實就是能夠讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7094.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7108.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
全世界各個人民或者是讓大家看到所以我才希望說我們要怎麼做能夠讓大家相信不是只看到 讓大家相信台灣在人權維護上面有在提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7109.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7127.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
其實從這次的主題就可以看得出來我們是監察使的任務然後另外有要去做反酷刑其實反酷刑的部分也是一個重要的人權的一個公約的展現然後另外就是有關於人權的AI人權的那個部分這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7128.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7134.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我們為什麼會去選定這樣子的一個主題就是監察院重視這樣子的一個人權的任務然後透過這樣子一個國際的會議能夠讓大家都知道監察院的治理的重點在這因為時間不多啦我說這麼難得我們能夠爭取到這樣子一個國際的一個研討會 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7152.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7168.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
能夠再一次的來到台灣舉辦那希望能夠來我們能夠給所有來到台灣參加的這些各國友人能夠留下一個良好的印象不要讓人家覺得說我們爭取到這個機會但是沒有充分的運用讓大家失望所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7168.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7185.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我們在國際舞台的實力跟專業性希望能夠藉由這次來做一個提升跟發揮但是我繼續請教因為監察院近期爭議不斷我們看到監察院到底該不該廢除的議題現在都又浮上檯面大家都在討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7187.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7208.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我們知道監察委員共29人 其中一人為院長 一人為副院長 任期6年監察委員的職責就像你剛剛說的 是負責行使監察權確保政府部門的透明度跟公正性 具有彈劾 糾舉 審計權但是本應該具有重大使命的監察院 現在彷彿是政治人物的退休養老院 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7209.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7235.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
除了先前爆發的公務車這個濫用的爭議還有監察委員說沒有公務車上班會遲到除了讓人瞠目結舌之外也不知道怎麼形容啦那監委的年薪高達250萬但是這半年來有許多監委所提出的調查報告是個位數甚至於是連一件都沒有提出的領這麼多錢那一件事都沒做這不只誇張 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7238.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7260.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
連假裝都不假裝了真的把監裁院當作是養老院拿人民的納稅錢來養老這個是爽缺啦這塊是真好啦爽快就對了難怪大家看不下去說要廢除那我想請教祕書長說針對剛剛我們說的沒有做事的監委難道你們就視而不見嗎還是有其他的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7262.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7289.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
跟委員說明就是有關於監察權的行使的狀況其實我們每個月都會對外會有相關的公告那這是相當的清楚有多少調查案、多少糾舉案、彈劾案收受多少人民懲罰就以人民懲罰的收受來講第六屆已經超過七萬多屆所以事實上是有非常多的人民是有對他們覺得有原因的地方有監察員懲罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7291.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7308.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
這公告這些數字其實它也不是什麼機密啦但是我要講的就是說人民期待的監察院是一個真正行使監察權那確保政府部門對公眾負責的機構不是一個空殼就是只剩下名稱的機構啦所以監委如果無法履行核心職務那這個機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7311.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7329.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
就沒有存在的價值嘛 對不對所以它會成為民眾心中的笑話所以希望在七月份要召開的紀律委員會能夠給人民一個招待對於沒有做事的監委該走人就走人另外要求啦 監察院提供一份資料統計一下所有監委近三年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7330.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7352.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
個別監委近三年來提出調查報告的數量讓全民檢視到底是誰拿錢不做事然後把這份報告我想這不是什麼機密希望你們在一個禮拜之內把這份數據我們送交給立法院可以嗎更為說明是可以這不是公開資訊這是公開資訊好不好好謝謝秘書長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7359.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7360.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
主席 麻煩副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7377.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7404.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
副秘書長早我想說我先最前面的說明一下就是有關這筆750萬元的部分我個人是支持我昨天在跟國民黨其他委員開會的時候我也是說服他們說其實因為這個在我們自己國家內召開這種世界性的組織的研討會其實這個支持本來就是應該的所以我先說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7405.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7425.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
這是我的結論但是中間有一些問題我還是要跟你們理清楚那當然啦就是因為剛剛也有很多人有提到幾個問題但跟今天沒有絕對的關聯性我認為說他有一點怪力亂神所以我這邊先澄清一下就是說其實已經到今天了我們來討論750萬的這個預算其實不要說在趁這個機會又說什麼爛三預算什麼其實如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7432.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7450.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
會爛三預算今天我不會說在這邊還有昨天開會我就跟其他委員說其實國家的顏面我們一定要支持到底所以我覺得這個在扯那個預算爛三這個實在是很沒有意思啦我覺得這是個怪力亂神另外一個就是說有關剛剛有其他委員有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7453.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7474.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
廢監察院這個事情其實國民黨的態度是比較開放我們覺得是一個改革所以我們其實公開說明是兩個方向就監察權的改革是兩個方向當然第一個就是這次民眾黨所提的那個案子就是說廢除監察院把權力移到立法院這是一個廢院移權第二個我們希望的 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7475.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7495.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
就是讓監察委員回歸到早期五權憲法的規定變成民意機關變成民選不管直接民選 階級民選先不去論這個把它變回去民意機關嘛所以這兩條路都是國民黨覺得可以討論的並不存在剛剛講的那些很奇怪因為今天有人提案了這個之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7496.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7517.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那民進黨不同意沒有關係或有意見也沒有關係啊大家可以拿出來討論但是回過頭去扯說2015年或2020年你們又反對又怎麼樣我覺得那個沒有意思啊因為你去講歷史沒有用啊那你為什麼不講我們現在從善如流我就覺得民進黨當初說廢考今天我們舉雙手贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7520.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7540.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那你為什麼不說我們這個叫從善如流對啊 那為什麼要回過頭去說你當初就不要 你當初就反對啊為什麼你今天可以要所以因為你當年反對那所以我現在也說你說要廢考監這個事我不同意這個邏輯上就邏輯性死亡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7541.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7567.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
對啊 你當年你始終堅持廢除考試院 監察院那當年國民黨 以前的國民黨我不認識 他們不同意但是今天新一代的國民黨認為說可以討論 可以去精簡我們優化監察權的行使而有一些改變 這根本沒有問題啊那現在反而是有人跳出來拿歷史故事出來說當年你反對廢考監 為什麼你現在便可以我覺得那個邏輯都錯誤啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7569.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7597.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
為什麼我們對於政策的想法不能改變反而是現在民進黨改變了他就變成說早年說要廢考今天現在這麼好用的監察權捨不得放掉我覺得這個才是核心的問題所以請聽清楚我們認為從善如流就是要優化監察權的行使兩個面向一個廢院一權第二個當然我們監察院繼續留著監察委員繼續留著但是改回早年無權憲法的想法讓他變成民意機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7599.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7616.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
這是國民黨想法 請大家不要再誤導國人了這是不應該的再回到今天的議題 我想請教一下今天750萬我已經說了我支持因為我認為這國家的顏面我絕對舉雙手贊成一定要支持我們國家的尊嚴但是750萬你們的報告只有55個字耶這個不對吧 而且細項都沒有 你就一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7624.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7639.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
你就現在我們PowerPoint上面看到的就這幾個字而已啊那詳細的細節我們都沒有看到這是我第一個要跟你們抗議的事情不能說因為今天我們想要支持你你就不當一回事對不對那你細項你怎麼沒有給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7641.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7643.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
因為口頭報告真的可能比較簡略那有關於750萬的細項我在這邊先再補充說明有關於第一項是有關於國外的講者還有貴賓他們的機票費大概是208萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7657.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7660.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
然後相關講者貴賓的住宿是95萬然後另外講者的交通費是72,000然後另外因為要有場地要有國際會議這樣的場地包括廠租設備佈置 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7672.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7685.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
還有餐飲等等是一百八十六萬然後同步口譯還有一些文化參訪等等是五十八萬兩千然後另外是文宣的資料的編譯費包括手冊 包括議程 包括翻譯費 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7689.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7717.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
因為這花時間所以這給我一份報告我們不能接受750萬你就55個字就沒了好不好我必須知道錢怎麼用那第二個我想請教一下為什麼我看那個IOI的官網我們的年度報告在2022年之後就沒有了這是怎麼回事如果我們這麼重視這個會議的話那為什麼2022年之後就沒有我們的報告我看香港也都還有請教怎麼回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7718.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7747.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
跟委員說明基本上我們都有送我們都有送那可是可能官網還沒有放上去這個你沒有確定嗎我們監察院有送是他們官網沒放上我們有送我們覺得有送因為2022年2023年後面都沒看到耶但是我看到香港2022、2023都有耶對不對那這個部分你要給我們一個答案啊那還有一個問題喔就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7748.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7770.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我覺得就是因為我看到你們的報告還有你剛剛其他委員的問題我們難得用中華民國這個名義去加入一個國際的組織對不對中華民國監察院那可是我看了一下我上了他們的官網去看我找不到我只找到他們只有在這個那個奧紐區還有太平洋區裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7771.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7787.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
只有一個監察院像譬如說香港他還會特別註明出來其他國家也會特別註明但是我們不見了你自己看這是他們官網上面的那你們有沒有去抗議過我覺得我現在是在替政府講話謝謝委員這個如果這個再繼續往下點的話就會看到是中華民國監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7794.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7816.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
繼續點可是我們這個列表上面別的你自己看嘛我們去看一下這個列表上面其他國家或地區都有被特別標示出來唯獨我們中華民國的監察院他忘了標註那我沒有意見也許他們公網漏掉但是基於國家的尊嚴以及顏面是不是你們可以請 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7817.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7834.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
他們公網要把它簽上去不然你現在告訴我跟你們今天的報告我看完了以後貴院的報告上面寫我們難得用中華民國這個名義加入對不對那但是我看到他們的公網上面沒有嘛那沒有你跟我說點進去在某一個小地方有這就不對了因為列表才是 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7835.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7850.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
是是是這一點我們會特別注意然後會去主張謝謝委員麻煩這個是我們國家顏面不管任何的政黨都認為我們國家顏面是最重要的最後跟你們說貴院的人權委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7851.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7870.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我們上個禮拜在審那個新住民的法案的時候我們請他來他不來也沒有請假就丟了一個公文過來說不可出席原因是什麼也不講我想那個人權委員會並不是用4461號他沒有理由說不來那能不能回去請 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7872.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7886.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
副秘書長 轉告人權委員會不要這麼囂張今天立法院在審查法案這個跟一百萬的新住民有關你不要讓這一百萬的新住民覺得監察院就是看不起他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7887.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7903.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
如果今天依照憲政規定而不來我覺得我可以接受 依照461不來我也可以接受但是你既然不屬於四字461的範圍內你就一句不客出席 然後就不來了那你這麼看不起台灣有一百萬的新住民嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7905.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7930.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
委員說明其實就我所知人權委員會是有正式的公文然後交給司法法治委員會副秘書長正式的公文你要經過召委的同意這可不可以麻煩你們了解一下今天沒有人同意他而且不管是各部會的首長來跟我們請假因為說明原因我們都是盡可能的都會同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7930.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7958.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
但是今天貴院的人權委員會他就一份公務過來我不想來不可出席然後這樣子這個完全不符合過往立法院的慣例所以可不可以請轉告不要這麼看不起別人新住民的人權也非常的重要所以不是人權委員會不用管啦好不好好這麻煩你那我也在這邊說明了拜託人權委員會的這位各位委員以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7958.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7972.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
主管不要看不起立法院立法院在審查的這些新住民他們不是外國人他們是中華民國的國民他們也有投票權他們也有參政權不要這樣子搞他們麻煩下一次請 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7973.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7999.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
人權委員會來的時候 邀請他們過來沒辦法來 請說明請假的理由 讓召委判斷不管針對哪一黨都一樣 不是一個公文來我不爽來就不來 沒有那種事所以剛複密的這個答覆 我沒有辦法接受不是他有跟我講就算數 好不好好 謝謝複密好 謝謝吳委員那接下來我們請翁小林委員那也麻煩這個代理秘書長剛剛那個750萬的這個項目喔信箱就發給每個這個出席委員 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8009.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8010.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
有關於你們這次規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8029.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8049.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
APOR這樣的會議的規劃在你們這次的報告裡面根本呈現的非常的簡略那麼我們也沒有看到你們相關的議程那以及各個部分的經費的使用所以呢我想這個其實是有必要在今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8049.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8074.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
審查預算之前你們就應該要把相關的計劃的規劃的議程以及費用明細表要先提供給我們委員會這邊一份你們是不是有可能在待會要討論之前就先送給我們大家委員們看報告委員沒問題我們現在就準備對那請你們可能要盡快去作業好的那麼接下來我要請教的就是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8076.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8088.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
其實這段時間以來大家其實對於監察院的表現都很不滿意認為監察委員好像只是打蒼蠅不打老虎我們也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8091.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8106.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
賴清德總統他上任這一年來其實行政機關跟立法機關這裡的對抗的情況非常的這個嚴重那麼往往立法院通過的法案或通過的預算案那麼行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8107.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8135.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
或是他其他部會就消極抵抗不執法也不依法行政那麼針對這個部分其實行政監察院作為國家的最高監察機關本來就有權要去主動調查公務人員以及政府機關的工作為師如果有涉嫌到違法事實的情況那麼並且可以立案調查就是監察委員可以自己主動的立案調查必要的時候還可以成立彈劾案 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8136.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8152.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那麼請問就是副秘書長就是在最近這段時間我們其實想請教從來政府執政以來目前有多少個案件是由立法委員自己主動申請調查的自動立案調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8153.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8178.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
委員是講監察委員嗎?對監察委員從賴政府是今年嗎?對在今年來其實跟委員說明就是第六屆我們是109年8月1號開始所成立的調查案有1194件然後中間立案主動依照監察法適應細則第24條主動立案調查的超過六成 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8180.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8197.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
這樣好了 因為我大概也看了一下你們這一年來其實監察委員主動立案調查大概也就是四五十件嘛並不多監察委員自己申請調查自己申請調查的部分要不然的話就之後請你們再給我詳細的數字簡單來說就是其實像是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8205.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8226.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
像這段時間我們知道像立法院他通過了原住民的計法補償條例本來要給原住民的計法補償金可是行政院根本不編列預算也不發給那立法院之前通過了114年的預算明明就是要給這個地方政府一般性補助款的法定預算我們一毛錢也沒有刪可是行政院可以說不給就不給但像這樣子嚴重引發爭議的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8232.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8258.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
請問目前為止有沒有任何一位監察委員有申請自動調查委員說明有關於那個原住民補償金的部分不是這個目前這個蔡英明這個這個這樣子的角度可是有類似的調查案有關於補償金的部分然後另外是八千名就是636億行政院刪除地方一般性補助款的 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8260.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8263.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那個目前沒有好 那我要講就是說其實因為這個都已經引發了中央政府跟地方政府對於相關的案子的這個嚴重的這個有嚴重的爭議那我認為說其實監察院應該要出來了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8276.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8301.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
主動調查是不是行政院以及他的這個相關的機關有一些違法的這個決定啊那麼監察院本來就有立案派查原則那我認為說其實有些案子基本上已經符合監察院可以自己主動申請監察委員可以主動申請調查的一些原則包含行政違失或是有沒有濫用職權自以妄為等等會侵犯到基本人權的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8302.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8330.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
條件這個部分的話我希望監察院能夠主動調查那另外本席還要再取發一個案子就是NCC委員的名單行政院到目前為止一直也沒送出依照規定他其實早應該要送出第一波的名單他已經撤回撤回之後當時行政院長有承諾說4月5月就要提出到現在為止也沒有提出因為行政院院長的不提出NCC委員的名單以至於讓NCC內部無法運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8332.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8351.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這難道不是一個嚴重的違法失職嗎對監察委員是不是應該監察院應該也要主動去了解相關的這個決定者有沒有違法失職我剛剛說明就是有關NCC的運作的部分其實監察院有蠻多的調查案可是就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8352.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8373.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
所以監察院已經有開始進行調查了嗎可是委員說的人數不足沒有辦法換照這個issue呢目前是沒有然後呢要跟委員說明監察委員是依據法律獨立行使職權那委員要什麼時候調查調查什麼內容其實是各界是要遵守的但是呢我要這邊要提醒這個監察院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8375.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8393.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
就是因為這些都是眾所矚目的案子而且它會影響到整個行政機關運作但是單純因為行政院院長的不作為或是消極怠惰那導致一個機關沒有辦法好好的正常運作那我覺得這個問題是嚴重的那麼另外還有再舉發另外一個案子就是陸委會陸委會現在它也是擴大曲解法律的解釋在兩岸人民關係條例裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8403.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8407.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那麼他做了一些這個不當的解釋以至於就是造成整個的陸配早期就來台灣生活的陸配那麼以及就是出生在大陸的當時早就回來的台灣資質他們還必須要大費周章的跑回到大陸再去申請一個什麼這個無戶籍證明等等那麼我覺得這個部分其實也已經嚴重影響到我們台灣人民的這個權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8430.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8449.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那麼事實上監察院也應該要主動的去調查但是你們都沒有做所以也請監察院應該要回去好好的去檢視現在大家社會上面眾所矚目的案子是不是應該要積極的來立案調查以上提供給秘書長請帶回去給監察委員們參考好 謝謝謝謝翁委員接下來我們請賴會員找委 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8460.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8468.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
謝謝主席我們請那個主計總處副主計長跟我們的監察院代理秘書長請這個副主計長跟這個代理秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8472.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8476.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
從去年的統計,前面的經濟成長率從4.59%提高到4.84%人均GDP達到3.4萬美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8493.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8504.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那今年的第一季的經濟成長率其實也非常好那我們從四年初我們初步的一個估計是5.37後來又拉到5.48那其實產業也提前拉貨就是我們的出口 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8513.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8530.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那在第一季我們的GDP已經衝上了5.48了那為什麼就是說主計總署在評估今年的下半年的經濟情勢會不好是什麼原因為什麼主計總署這樣看壞下半年的經濟成長率呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8532.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8558.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
跟我們報告就是主要下半年是受到這個對等關稅的這個不確定性的因素的影響那當然年代就是說前上半年因為已經提前拉貨了所以這種種因素的影響所以會影響到下半年就是GDP的成長我們就會認為就是會比較沒有上半年那麼好 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8559.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8579.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
所以主計總署採取一個比較保守的一個看法 一個做法是不是這樣子對 主要還是在意很多的不確定性對 疫情在下半年可能是會狀況比較不好是好 這個會不會有過度保守呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8581.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8598.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
就是我們GDP都會持續來滾動檢討那我們就是按計根據那個結果我們如果說原來的有一些不確定性因素比較確定的時候那有該需要調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8599.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8625.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們滾動式檢討啦所以說我們也密切的在觀察就是整個經濟的一個走向那我在這裡再跟副座做一個探討就是地方補助款地方補助款應該納入財政均衡的一個條件其實從六都的統籌分配款裡頭我還是再重述一次就是台南市不僅是分配的最少那也是增加的最少 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8627.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8634.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這個從今年那個這個月月初的時候我們在6月4號其實我也詢問過主計長在六個都的統籌分配款裡頭其實我們都看到了台南市在統籌分配款裡頭它其實分配最少增加最少 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8645.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8670.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
尤其是在一般性補助款還被刪了最多那如果我們從這個一般性補助那個補助款裡頭刪27%的這一個調整之下我們看到了台南還有就是高雄、彰化、屏東這四個縣市又被刪了最多這種齊頭是其實是非常的不合理不知道那個戶座你的看法是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8673.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8689.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
原來我們制度設計的確就是說我是中央統籌這個統籌分配稅款加一半性補助把這兩個項目加在一起看來讓這個地方縣市之間可以均衡那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8690.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8708.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
一般性補助款就是來就是說調整那個統籌費那邊的部分我想你也知道這個方式其實是不是最好的一個方法那我們其實基本上你們現在也在研擬一個比較好的方式那我們再回到就是今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8709.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8724.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
就是監察院這個750萬的這個預算那監察院要動用到第二億倍金那動用到第二億倍金其實常態性我們都是會在下半年來動用這個一倍金 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8725.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8752.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
如果你認為說監察院他現在在這個750萬動用第二一倍金他的合理性在哪裡主要在於因為他是全數被刪減所以的確讓他的業務無法推動所以因為九月初就要來舉辦了所以我們認為就是應該就是依我22預算法22條來經行這份同意後來動之第二一倍金 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8753.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8780.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝副主席長接著我們請王代理秘書長我想秘書長那個副主席講得非常清楚就是說在這個審計部的預算裡頭你們一年的預算有多少十一十一點你一年的預算有多少十點九你一年的預算有多少十點九 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8786.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8808.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
10.97億10.97億對然後稅出稅入這些預算你有沒有看清楚我想這個MU長是你今天給我們的你是要來尋求我們同意嘛對不對是的支持你們的提案嘛是那我們看得出來就是說你的那個報告其實只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8810.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8839.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
這個不會超過 我相信不會超過五百個字啊那後來你又補上了這一個附件就是說這個在整個年會裡頭所有的細則 詳細的一個資料那我們也知道說在國內其實辦這樣的一個活動是我們台灣的一個光榮那我們也一定要支持你那可是你們提出來的就是這麼少的一個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8840.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8853.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
這個實在是讓我們有點尷尬這要跟委員說明這你看過嗎你看過嗎是的是的你看過你還拿出來是是委員因為那是你知道今天要來備詢那你也同意這樣的資料出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8855.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8874.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
因為那是我的口頭的報告 妳同意嗎 妳同意我們檢討 因為真的是非常希望立法院能夠支持然後我們有報告不足的地方 我們知道妳的預算非常少預算非常少 妳光是一個衛福部的預算就要2800億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8876.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8902.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那這麼少的預算要做這麼多的一個事情當然你們有你們的一個困境可是如果像這樣子這麼消極的態度其實我想我們應該要做很多很多的一個努力啦那當然就是說沿著上這個750萬我也當然是支持那我想在這裡再特別提醒監察院我們應該做更多的一個修正做更多的一個努力好 謝謝 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8905.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8907.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我們謝謝賴會員召委謝謝李昆城委員接著我們請李昆城委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8929.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8935.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
呃謝謝召委我們先請這個監察院的代理秘書長好請王代理秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8939.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8950.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
委員好代理民主黨請問一下剛剛有問到就是說這個今年度的你們的預算是10.97億那其中人事費是8億多然後這個業務費是2億4237萬但是被刪掉了96%左右這個刪掉了2億3181萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8963.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8986.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那所以呢這邊有一張表這個應該是正確的啦因為這個是你們副院長召開記者會的這個表格啦所以一般行政百分之百刪除了議事業務百分之百刪除了調查巡查業務百分之百刪除了然後財產申報凍結百分之六十一請問一下這有解凍了嗎有解凍了齁那國家人權業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8988.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8998.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
3減了97%那營建工程動32%有解凍了嗎已經解凍所以我們今天要看的這個預算就是在這個1856萬裡面的義式業務是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9002.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9024.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那請問一下那這個監察院除了這個要用二倍金之外還有沒有什麼其他的預算要用到二倍金因為監察院的相關預算被煽動得很嚴重所以那為了維持監察院的相關職權的運作所以我們還有另外再申請動之第二餘倍金有多少7900萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9026.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9032.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
七千九百萬是好我看這個那這個就要請這個我們主席總書的這個副主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9043.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9069.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那請教一下副主席長這個監察院除了今天這一筆750萬之外要動到二倍金我看他們還有提出的需求是7968萬這個也要用到二倍金那當然是要含這750萬嘛那我先請教一下齁這個750萬當初這個在野黨要刪除預算的時候你有沒有去跟他們講說這個750萬是今天今年要在台北辦這個APPLE的這個年會 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9071.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9092.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我先問一下這個應該是我們代理秘書長在司法法制委員會審查的時候其實我們都會盡量的說明可是因為是全署保留出委員會所以沒有審查沒有審查然後就直接到了這一個院會的時候就直接就被刪掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9094.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9108.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
因為這個是含在這個議事業務費裡面嘛百分之百被刪除了嘛1856萬嘛 對不對所以你們當初也有跟在野黨委員講說這750萬是今年要在台北辦這個年會的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9110.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9125.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以又繞了一大圈嘛去年你們有跟他講今年初有跟他們講然後呢結果被全數刪除了那因為九月份要辦了嘛九月份要辦了今天再來我們這個財政還有司法法制聯席會議希望用到二倍金嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9126.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9141.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那我早上聽了在野黨的委員的說法應該是會支持我也希望沒有意外但是我就覺得說何必繞這一圈呢明明已經知道說這筆預算就今年一定要用那就辦的這個年會之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9142.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9160.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
就答應人家今年要在台灣舉辦那結果呢繞了一圈那今年再做這個要求這個要用到二倍金我覺得如果省預算好好省的話這筆預算就不應該刪除掉了那我再請問一下副組長除了監察院的這個7968萬之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9165.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9172.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
還有總統府、行政院、不當的當餐、慣例委員會都有提出二倍金的需求是不是?是,總共1.5億1億5541萬對 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9177.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9205.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我看總統府他們是這個需要416萬不當當常委員會504萬行政院是6652萬監察院是7968萬監察院剛剛有提過了嘛那我看了一下那我先問一下程旭復委了沒有就我的了解已經復委了那就等安排就等安排那因為這一筆是九月份要辦所以我們就先拿出來單獨先做處理就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9205.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9232.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那剩下的還要再排我看這個除了司法內政那當然我們財政嘛對不對三個委員會三個委員會再辦一次二倍金的這個預算對我看一下總統府他的預算其實蠻可憐的水電費這是這一個應該是這個憲兵營他們用的然後呢行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9233.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9262.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這個需要六千六百多萬呢有很多的是這個給我們的這個地方的這個聯合服務的中心的業務嘛然後不當常常管理委員會五百零四萬這是跟人民權利回覆相關審查案件需要的那監裁院就更多了七千九百多萬因為你們當初被砍得太慘了啦那我也希望說這一筆預算除了今天希望順利通過之外那我也希望說接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9263.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9286.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
關於這個總統府行政院監察院不當當場管理委員會的這個預算 二倍金都能夠順利來通過了那我再請問一下那副主席長請回我請問一下代理秘書長我看你們的報告裡面除了這個會議之外那還有一個還有一個會議是這個這要去哪裡啊依比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9290.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9314.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我看一下今年要赴秘魯是不是啊伊比利美洲監察使聯盟年會有這個嗎這個是另外一個國際組織就是FIOFEAR我們去年是從觀察員的身份變成正式會員要去秘魯出席年會 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9314.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9334.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
可是目前這筆不在750萬裡面這個年會是這個伊比利美洲監察使聯盟這個是不是FEAR年會這是哪時候這是預計10月9號10月9號跟10號再密錄所以我們有答應要去了要看 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9337.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9362.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
有沒有經費人家有邀請我們去參加的嗎我們現在也是會員對那所以本來也在這個業務費裡面是是多少錢啊是1900裡面我們有放進去是多少錢201萬5千元200萬201萬5千元沒有這次一起提出來這次沒有應該一起提出來我相信在野黨不會反對才對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9364.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9390.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
所以你們就包在你們下次要提的這個二倍機裡面就對了我是希望說不管是來台灣舉辦這個國際年會或是我們去參加這個年會其實都是用中華民國的名義出去啦那也是這一個讓全世界各國知道說中華民國台灣要走出去啦我也希望說這筆預算能夠順利的來通過啦好 謝謝主席 謝謝戴琳秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9391.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9394.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好 謝謝昆誠 接著請陳益臻委員質詢謝謝主席 是先請這個監察院 這個是代理秘書長好 那個我們請監察院王代理秘書長委員好那個王秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9417.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9434.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個請教一下喔你們今天要來要這個是有關這個人權業務的錢嘛對吧我們是國家人權業務不是是要去開那個會嘛750萬那個嘛不是不是我們是主辦APPLE的年會對對對但是是跟人權有關的嘛對不對沒有這是這是監察不是這個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9435.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9450.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這是監察院參加國際組織主要是你看2025年對不對第37屆紐澳及太平洋地區監察史年會計人權國際研討會這不是跟人權有關嗎是這個議題裡面有牽涉到人權對嘛所以這是我們會議的名稱是這樣子會議名稱就是有相關的嘛跟人權有相關的嘛那監察院的人權委員會有這個單位對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9464.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9472.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
檢察院在109年8月1號有國家人權委員會他的領導是誰啊他的主任委員是本院的院長那院長不是身體不舒服嗎那這個要怎麼開啊 你們有在開嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9487.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9514.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我們都有正常的開會除了主任委員還有其他什麼人員總共有十位委員每年有十位委員然後有七位是你們的國家人權委員會除了院長以外還有多少人呢還有就是有十位還有其他十位就對了所以有沒有主任委員沒差就對了沒有影響報告委員還有副主任委員還有其他監察委員副主任委員是誰呢這一年度是王宥林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9515.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9533.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
王委員是副主任委員是的OK那秘書長有沒有擔任什麼職位嗎在這個人權委員會裡沒有沒有齁沒有齁我們是列席人員所以金桃院現在只有副院長嘛齁院長休息很久了齁身體不舒服然後秘書長你也是代理的嘛齁是所以對你們的折騰運作有什麼影響嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9535.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9551.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我們副院長有對外有說明過在這樣的情況之下監察權還是要落實的執行然後徹底的對外要執行但是也沒院長也沒差你要開這個國際人權這個到時候誰要來主持我們的院長也是我們人權委員會主 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9553.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9569.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
的這個主任委員都不在啊來我想請問一下你們一直要開這個國際的人權會議我們在主辦單位我理解了我們當然也是歡迎世界各地來開這個彰顯這個但是除了跟世界各地之後這樣交流以外我想了解一下你們這個人權委員會有一個系統性的調查有一個作業程序對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9573.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9597.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
112年的時候我們在總預算裡頭做一個決議事項您看一下喔這個我螢幕上有喔112年監察院預算人權業務裡頭編了一億多嘛那時候我們有做一個決議喔對於金門過往遭軍方強徵土地事後卻無法還第一名這相關事件監察院人權委員會應該在委員會提案就本案進行系統性的調查然後後面你看喔你們系統性調查喔當然你們有一些議題選定啊派誰去啊調查訪問啊好已經兩年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9600.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9605.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
現在進行到哪一步 你這個作業程序的九步裡頭走到哪一步我可不可以請國家安全委員會執行秘書來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9611.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9612.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
有關金門過往遭軍方及政府強徵土地案 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9641.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9647.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那現在是114年嘛 那是112年的決議嘛現在就是以前的未來那現在進度到哪裡 人權委員會對於這個土地爭議進度到哪裡是 謝謝那委員跟您報告就是後來113年我們就起了一個委託研究案那就是盤整整個國內我知道 你趕快一個時間請問這個程序你走到哪裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9662.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9677.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
對 那因為114年其實我們本來也是要啟動一個就是針對這部分要做系統性的一個調查案你們走到哪裡啊因為我們後來就是都沒有動是不是因為我們的114年的預算後來就是被刪掉了那113呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9678.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9695.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
113就是我們起的這個你去年在做什麼委託研究案然後已經對外公佈所以來你給我一個完整的書面答覆我表示都沒有在做事嘛因為我們時間結束了我們委託研究案已經完畢了所以你告訴我你的這個系統性調查走到哪裡喔要書面報告給我喔來書面報告給我喔因為我還要問別的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9699.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9728.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
還有這個有兩位監委賴貞昌跟敏玉榮到金門巡查有很多土地案件金門的一些建設經費自來水跟大橋的事情那後期的有一些定期的公開好像都沒有很多民眾澄清事件帶回去以後都沒有回來啊這個部分也是不是你們是不是對我們金門縣政府或是我們金門縣的民眾澄清案件都不搭那個跟委員說明其實就是因為監察院監察院的調查巡查費用是完全被刪除不是 今年嘛刪除是 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9729.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9739.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
114 加19去年去年去年1 2 1 3那個我說不是今年的事情我們就看你們以前執行怎麼樣因為監察人常常去嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9740.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9751.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
你不要跟我講 你就是你們做得不夠好我們才會去刪預算啊如果做得很好當然我們希望趕快做啊剛剛我跟你說那個順序都沒有告訴我做到哪裡啊反正只想開會嘛 跟國際人士開會啊對不對 跟國家 像花錢請世界各地人來開會好事不是不好 問題你們該做的事情沒有做啊來 主計總數來 因為剩下16秒 停一下 15秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9765.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9780.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這個我要問的是事實上剛好看其他委員有問過了就是這個有關法律問題預算法第二水條第二項這個如果要用這個第二頁備金第七十條也有說我看剛也有回答林德夫委員但是我看起來也是不符合要動用的這個條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9781.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9801.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
就是70條 預算法第70條第一項有三款理由要動用這個第二位悲劇我們看這個監察院這個會議並沒有符合任何一款啊所以我們贏的是22條沒錯 22條是說經立法院同意這個我也知道這一條但前提是你要先符合資格才可以送來立法院經立法院同意啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9802.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9829.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那是成就的條件立法院成就條件是22條 沒錯如果立法院同意就過了嘛問題是怎麼樣可以進入二倍金的使用有這三項啊 原列計劃原列計劃事實需要不足的時候原列計劃增加業務 沒有嘛 沒有增加業務正式需要必須臨時 也不是臨時因為早就略了 被刪除而已原列計劃因事實需要奉主修訂 也沒有你要先符合70條才可以去用20就是你要先符合資格嘛 資格是70條然後才去做22條的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9833.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9845.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
70條是屬於授權行政院先動之再備查但是22條是沒有授權一定要立法院同意才可以動之我覺得這個我們不是要用第二預備金 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9846.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9863.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
不過沒關係啦 因為這件事情大家也是合議啦只是跟你們講說 這個監察院重點是最後一句話 監察院人權委會有關金門的這個事項調查的事項 還有這個土地爭議我們已經在一本一十天就決定你們要做再不做的話 怕你們以後也沒機會做啦好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9867.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9877.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
主席在這裡做成決議我們的人權委員會你們的一個進度必須要給陳一貞委員好 謝謝接著請吳世耀委員質詢謝謝主席請代理秘書長代理秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9894.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9903.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
委員好今天我們在這裡都要搶救人權預算搶救外交預算也搶救我們監察院的預算下一頁怎麼了 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9908.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9934.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那這一次的預算二崁二山監察院是重災戶那我看到你們除了這750萬現在排入議程後續還會有大概7900多萬希望一起來解除這個希望能夠啟用二倍金我非常的支持因為畢竟不是只有這個活動需要去協助你們正常運作所以我非常的支持你們後續提出來的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9936.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9951.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那同樣的人權會這一次也是受了蠻嚴重的這個業務的影響那我也支持你們除了這750萬的APOR的會議之外另外有需要的一併來提出好下頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9952.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9974.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
今天這個有點怪喔 怎麼變這樣子的方式 不是一頁一頁嗎好 但事實上我也在這裡要還原一下JCC野黨的委員在二砍二山預算其實這不是個案對於監察院下了這麼重的重手其實他是有一個計劃性的目的在進行 因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9975.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9990.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
要基於政治的操作鎖定了特定機關我這邊列出來的跟監察院一樣是這一次的重災戶包括NCC、述發部、陸委會、外交部跟文化部關鍵的理由是 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9991.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10012.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
在野黨的委員透過預算的刪減或凍結讓這些關乎政府在國際可以發聲的部會不管是社群不管是文化媒介不管是主管媒體或者甚至外交部都全面的讓藉由預算的刪減讓台灣被消失下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10015.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10026.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
而當中的特定經費重中之重就是台灣要走到世界去讓世界聽到台灣聲音的各類外交相關旅費的預算煤燻費的預算都被迫來難以運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10033.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10036.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
讓台灣晉升將台灣鎖國這恐怕是今天我們在面對750萬的這個重要的國際年會在台灣背後我們一定要讓社會知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10047.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10071.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
不過在野黨的委員不同意依循預算法22條的授權讓我們能夠用動二來致應這個緊急的國際人權年會外交年會就是他們依舊是吃了襯托鐵了心要讓台灣在世界被消音被消失這背後的政治目的 浮躁斑斑 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10072.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10078.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
所以我也呼籲在野黨的委員這恢復的不是只有一個750萬的預算它恢復的是讓台灣可以在國際社會持續的發聲好 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10086.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10114.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那剛剛陳玉珍委員對於人權會也跟您做一下科普啊因為這是我們司法法治委員會其實國家人權委員會在依循1993年的巴黎原則監察院2020年跟上了我們成立的國家人權委員會下一頁而爭取入這個Apple APR的正式會員是2002年對不對然後我們這是第幾次來爭取主辦年會 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10115.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10119.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
第三次所以在馬英九總統的任內2011年台灣是第一次舉辦了APOR的年會馬英九前總統也親自出席因為馬英九總統說他是代表台灣簽署國際人權公約的總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10134.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10154.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
讓世界上看到台灣保障人權的努力馬前總統也背書了APO2年會對於台灣在國際人權能見度跟監察室的相關權限的經驗交流很重要的意義所以請國民黨的委員不要二砍二刪預算現在是你們來搶救預算來回應馬前總統主張的關鍵時刻下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10164.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10185.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
而同樣的這樣一個組織十個會員國台灣作為亞洲的人權燈塔應當把握我們年會的主辦機會更重要這個年會不是只講人權我看到這一次的議程還包括AI跟人權的關係現在在教育委員會同樣在審台灣的AI基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10186.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10209.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我們如何讓AI在人權法制面的健全能夠有利於立法院的監督跟立法這個年會我甚至認為立法院的委員都要關心因為這樣一個國際的場域可以讓我們受惠良多而這樣一個年會也包括世界各國對於監察權制度的優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10210.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10225.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
很重要的討論如果在野黨的委員要廢監察院立法院要啟動修憲委員會的討論後續需要多元的討論是不是監察制度在台灣要廢除台灣要從五權變四權 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10227.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10247.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
其實這一個年會也是一個重要的可以聆聽國際意見國際監察室制度的行使的重要機會所以在野黨的委員如果要費監察院這樣一個年會也可以提供很多我們在憲政制度精進的觀點 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10248.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10270.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
所以我的分析跟我的認知這樣750萬的預算恢復它不是只有人權預算也不是只有對於台灣在國際發生的機會我們更要搶救也需要透過這重要的年會對於台灣現在倡議中在野黨力推中的廢除監察院是否合宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10271.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10281.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
在野黨委員是不是要跟上民進黨長期以來的主張五權變三權其實這個年會也扮演了非常重要的角色我這樣的理解您認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10283.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10307.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
完全認同謝謝委員所以他不是只有人權的分享他還有國際各國存有監察制度的國家對於現存制度的很多優劣的資訊的分享是是因為這是難得的監察的國際組織那其實在監察組織裡面除了人權以外民主還有善治都是非常重要的核心理念所以透過這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10309.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10329.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
交流其實是能夠讓有關監察權的提升是非常有幫助的是所以監察權在台灣是存是廢如何的精進或者是要如何的來做調配我認為這樣的年會可以作為我們立法院修憲委員會的一個很重要的意見的參照好最後一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10331.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10348.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
依據預算法22條的授權監察院除了今天750萬這個是先打頭陣後面我們送出來的7900多萬的爭取恢復動二的是可以幫助你們哪些部分不再被癱瘓 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10350.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10375.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
因為這次被刪減的預算比如說是一般行政是完全刪除調查巡查也是完全完全刪除還有那所以調查巡查一定是運用於相關的巡迴監察跟調查職權的行使然後另外還有議事業務等等的如果是我們有非常仔細的盤點如果讓這樣子的一個比例的七千九百萬是能夠讓監察職權一直到今年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10378.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10404.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
基本上還可以免為運作當一天合上撞一天鐘我想這些監察委員這段時間受限於預算被刪減而沒有辦法去履行他們的憲政義務憲政忠誠的職責我覺得這也是監委們大家心急如焚我除了支持750萬的這個APPLE年會的預算恢復我也非常的支持嚴格來講他不叫預算恢復 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10406.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10420.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
他是說用動二來支應那我也支持你們後續七千九百多萬的預算的執行好來爭取必要的運作好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝謝謝四友接著請李燕秀委員質詢感謝周偉我是不是可以邀請主席副主席講好副主席講 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10444.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10469.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
謝謝主席講我一向非常關心民生的議題那政府對於現在民眾的對於整個經濟的感受度跟數據上我想透過今天的質詢跟你探討我們在今年包括國泰金控在今年6月份公佈的國民經濟的信心調查當中多數的民眾對於今年的經濟成長其實都不抱太大的期待跟樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10470.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10478.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
平均的預期值大概只有2.61%但是也將近有六成三的民眾認為我們今年2025年的經濟成長會低於3%一個是民眾對於今年經濟成長的信心指數 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10486.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10507.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
大家覺得是不樂觀 會低於3%那我再提個一個數據給您也就是在今年四月份的時候外商美商在公布今年第二季全球企業台灣企業樂觀指數分別全球的企業是會下降1.3%外商評估全球平均會掉1.3%但是台灣會掉25% |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10514.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10539.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
主席長副主席長這個數據凸顯兩個問題第一個問題是如果外商都認為我們有可能信心值會掉25%那一般投資者是這樣當他對一件事情或一個國家大環境沒有信心的時候很多外商他就觀望他不敢投資這是第一點我要凸顯的會有這個氛圍第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10540.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10545.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
如果國人會預估今年景氣不好那我就保守我不敢花錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10546.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10568.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
你身上如果每個月只有賺三萬塊你可能就會想辦法下半年經濟景氣不好我不要花那麼多我除了基本的我的生活必須品重我不敢額外消費我不敢出國玩這兩件事情我想你大概能夠認同這是大環境上如果國際上外商評估我們的全球經濟不景氣甚至全球是會掉1.3%台灣掉25%這是美商的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10573.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10597.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
那台灣國人國泰金控調查國人對於這個今年的信心指數大概都認為會低於3%在個人那個人如果對於經濟景氣不信心的話那當然對台灣整體環境來講企業沒有信心不敢投資個人沒有信心不敢消費那個對於整體台灣大環境的景氣那就是雙殺您了解我意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10598.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10619.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
企業不敢投資那我就回過頭來問您這不是我說的是因為這是有數據這是有美商的數據鄧白氏的企業調查數據我拿這兩個信心指數來跟您做回應當然我們看到上半年度我們的CPI是控制得還不錯但是我講的是接下來我們第三季第四季 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10620.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10640.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
國際的環境對於台灣無論是關稅大環境到底對於我們會有什麼樣的影響那我就會過頭來請問副主席長你認為今年我們到底能不能夠保三經濟成長能不能夠保三你只要回應我之前因為我們今天時間不多我們對保三保有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10642.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10667.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
你有信心因為基本上就是說這個對等關稅因為他剛開始這個32%對大家造成一個疑慮但是我們慢慢可以觀察到這個對等關稅他有一個緩衝期而且這個比例也不必然會那麼高你還是有信心那你接下來你有信心那我們還有沒有評估未來會有哪些變數 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10669.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10682.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
會對於寶三有影響衝擊譬如說現在國際的國際在以色列跟伊朗的戰爭等等對於原油會不會有什麼樣的影響對於進出口會不會有什麼樣的影響因為我們大家都知道在台灣我們市場上其實會受幾個環境的影響企業包括高利率的環境出口市場不穩定的話還有對於本地的消費如果疲軟的話那整體對於經濟來說包括企業投資都會有衝擊跟影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10699.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10727.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以 夫人你有沒有去評估過接下來有哪些變數會讓我們沒有辦法保三有沒有去算過以前都有評估過啊以前朱澤民都常常對於包括以前惡霧戰爭的時候朱澤民都有去評估過啊就是我們認為有保三的這個信心主要是基於就是說這一次的以一戰爭這個油價的上漲並沒有有我們原來預期的這麼高就是它並沒有漲到今年一月的高點它就往下調 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10728.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10734.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
妳們有沒有做過 因為每一件事情我們都會做額外的評估有哪些評估的變動的原因會去影響寶珊 妳覺得都不會完全不會有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10739.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10745.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
美中對抗有轉單的效應也許對我們反而是有利的所以我們認為對寶山還是有信心包括以色列跟伊朗的戰爭後續的影響打打停停後續對於我們的影響會不會有影響?有沒有評估過? |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10765.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10777.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
就是因為基本上我們現在觀察到就是說這個油價的部分的上漲也不如原來所以為的衝擊那麼大所以你認為都不是問題那現在停火的協議都繼續在談當中所以我們認為這個對我們的衝擊應該是沒有原來所以為的那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10786.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10807.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
好 所以這都已經所有的因素都排除所以保三絕對有信心這也是一個答案因為我覺得主計處在評估這些數據很重要這是對於未來政府整個行政院在施政上或者在很多油電的控制上我覺得都是一個重要因素這企業也都在看好 我最後就是再提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10808.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10833.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
現在通膨很嚴重外食族跟豬屋族很痛苦所以雖然CPI控制得不錯但是我希望你們給我一個答案因為大家都知道現在外食包括便當盒排骨便當一個漲到120這都是那豬屋這個是你們評估出來豬屋的漲的幅度是最高的為什麼會造成這些原因後續政府如何去解決這兩件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10834.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10848.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這是基層年輕人一般民眾有感的東西我們雖然說CPI控制得很好但是民眾感受度卻不是這樣子所以我要提醒你們後續如何去處理否則就是一個體感失溫的通膨你們覺得通膨控制得不錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10850.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10863.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
數據上看起來好像不錯但是事實上我們的外食族跟租屋族從數據上你也看得到這些數據事實上完全不是這麼一回事所以你們去評估好不好 謝謝是 我們會注意穩定物價 謝謝委員好 謝謝燕秀接著我們請陳佩儀委員質詢好 謝謝主席 那有請代理秘書長是 我們請代理秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10882.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10896.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
委員好好大林秘書長那個辛苦了今天關於要談這個750萬致應案的事情剛剛真的聽起來大部分人應該是同意的啦我不知道你現在在這邊你覺得樂不樂觀等一下我們要表決的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10897.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10921.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我省省乐观 非常希望能够通过我也希望可以通过 为什么这么说因为过去我们在做人权工作的时候其实我们知道人权工作的国际交流非常的重要那事实上呢 这个750万到底是跑到哪里去了我跟您再次确定一下它其实是被你们编在所谓意识业务当中那本来今年呢 申请的是1800多万 对吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10922.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10947.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
對,一千八百多,可是光是這個項目就七百五十萬這個April年會所以我認為這個荒謬的預算審議場景還有包含連國民黨的很多前輩啊大佬他們自己都說看到國民黨的委員荒謬奇怪的預算審查案提案四千多案造成這個荒謬的亂象可能國民黨委員都忘記但是我想大家都不會忘記所以我也很希望今天我們在後續的表決可以看到大家都是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10948.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10963.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
所以把人权的议题往下延伸我接下来跟您讨论也是要一并拜托您不知道后续的可能性啦关于2023年监察院出席这个伊比利美州监察使联盟我们有相关的会议然后看到这个出国报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10963.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10986.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我要認同這個出國報告您不用擔心怎麼說因為這裡面很大篇幅提到兒少權益的部分我也認為這確實是我們台灣監察院或是過去在人權委員會其實都已經多有著墨並且看到確實是有些進展那當然我知道你們現在預算受到很大的影響可是我還是想要拜託帶回去相關的意見下一張如果之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10987.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10997.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
相關預算有機會調整讓你們可以好好用這些錢好好做這些事情我想要拜託監察院先整理這五年近五年監察院參加國外相關組織會議關於兒少政策監察的討論可不可以帶回台灣作為參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11004.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11030.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那過去已經參加過的我不確定你們有沒有整理相關進度如果有的話可不可以先給我們那第二個就是未來在今年即將主辦這個April年會當中有沒有機會放入兒少權益的討論我剛剛看到你們手上給我這個議程我剛剛快速看了一眼有一個人權精神台灣民主跟監察權的發展或者是如何讓民眾有感或者是AI與人權民主與法治 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11030.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11055.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
不知道我們哪一個部分的議程你覺得有機會在子題討論的時候納入跟兒少權益監察政策有關的議程跟委員說明我們現在的議程是粗略的預估大概是這樣子就我個人覺得兒少權益的部分可能在第一場或者是在第三場都會可能還有機會去放進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11056.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11082.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我們滿有共識的我們後續就再來討論 好不好謝謝你 謝謝好 接下來下一個我想要感謝監察院喔大家都一直在說監察院沒有做事我要說是因為他們不願意認真看監察院做了什麼事情喔光是我們辦公室過去這兩年半我們提到非常多兒少現場的困境我們除了開記者會跟相關主管機關對話我們實質的希望改善現場狀況我們看到監察院有非常多監委也主動提起調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11083.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11097.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
相關後續的進度我們非常肯定監察院這邊給予整個公民團體或者是學者專家團體或是在意這個議題的人的協助我可能請你說一下我們監察院怎麼看這個事情關於很多兒少政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11098.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11125.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
其實就像委員所觀察到的這一屆的監察委員對於CRC的相關的調查報告是非常分量是非常多的然後又加上我們有非常多的監委對這個議題都非常的有興趣而且有深深有非常有專業所以我們開啟了非常多的調查案甚至有些專案調查研究人權委員會也有類似的一個通案性的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11125.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11147.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
所以我們所涉獵的密度是相當的高的好沒錯那後續我想除了我們現在已經看到的成果之外往下其實我還是想要持續拜託監察院關於單項協會治癒跟體育署之間怎麼說其實過去這幾年這兩年來其實有非常多單項協會的失職跟失責跟失能其實他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11148.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11176.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這些不作為導致了現場第一線運動員的權益受損包含昨天我們還看到女足公會發了一個聲明協會的不當安排班機的事情嚴重影響選手的權益可是其實協會的監督主管機關是體育署那至於教育部那未來運動部要成立今年九月就成立我想我就先提早預告有很多關於體育界的困境真的未來要拜託監察院一起努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11176.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11199.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
尤其是體育界這些過去很多所謂大老觀念大老把持的這種實質上的做法真的也非常影響很多年輕人要投入所謂運動產業的意願這件事情那因為很多實質的問題我們沒有辦法在今天討論沒有關係我只是先把我們的期待跟很多國人對運動部成立之後的期待先帶給監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11200.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11214.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好 接下來下一個案子這個我也感謝監察院在施大案的協助跟相關調查可是很可惜的是我們看到外部的獨立調查小組做了一個停聘兩年的建議可是最後施大竟然決定讓這個行為人 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11216.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11232.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
他規定他只有不得在外兼職意思就是他可以繼續留在師大裡面那當時檢舉他的這些球員這些學生他未來如何面對這個人或者是他會不會再去影響其他的學生後續這個部分可不可以拜託監察院持續協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11235.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11257.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這個調查案應該已經提出調查報告那後續呢都會持續追蹤我們還沒有結案好那最後一個就是關於體育班的政策我當然不會只有跟監察院說因為體育班有太多權益不對等的關係那未來體育班我們要如何協助我一樣把問題帶過來好不好我要拜託監察院持續關注我們體育班那我這邊是不是可以快速 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11267.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11272.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
好你們帶回去研究那我們辦公室再跟你們討論好不好好謝謝主席好謝謝佩儀委員那接著請王世堅委員質詢謝謝主席我請監察院王秘書長好那有請謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11298.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11315.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我們今天的主題舉辦這個監察國際年會預算這750萬我的道理很簡單因為這是好不容易2022年2022年陳局院長的時候就爭取了 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11318.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11323.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我們加入的名義是中華民國監察院 這確實不簡單而且這一次有115國 148個地區來參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11329.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11355.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我認為監察院坐一天和尚敲一天鐘不管以後的存費那這個是另外一回事但是你們要積極做這件事情這是對的這個預算我支持所以我要跟你提的倒是另外一件事我希望你回去那跟貴院能夠提就是說對這個案子重啟調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11357.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11376.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
也就是說我們對於進口保健品高關稅的這個保護在去年五月那貴院就有提到說因為進口保健品這個關稅率偏高而且偏高的關稅率不但 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11379.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11401.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
這個沒辦法造成產業升級不但沒保護它反而讓劣質品衝刺而且不肖業者用這個不實的廣告大量的不實廣告反而影響了我們國民的健康所以當時貴院就立案就調查結果調查的結果是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11406.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11418.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
調查的結果竟然是說這個高關稅保護是有助於保護產業的所以 查無不法謝謝指教天啊對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11422.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11439.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
你們一開始立案要調查 你們當初發動這個調查那時候說的說 劣質品充斥 業者暴力不實廣告 這些部分你們完全知字未提啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11440.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11460.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
調查的結果到底怎麼樣 沒有沒提就說這個高關稅保護是有必要的保護的這個產業我認為要不然當初你們就不要發動調查要調查就要針對這幾項你們自己提的這些重大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11462 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11479.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
這個錯誤缺失你們在調查報告裡面完全不提那你們還有提到你說而且啊你說這個高關稅啊30%沒錯但是只佔這個保健品價格的8.4%你說這個對價格影響不大那個秘書長我不曉得你知不知道我們就講善存好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11489.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11510.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
善存在美國沃爾瑪一般的銷售買平均下來一顆是2.8元台幣那在我們台灣啊你到任何的奧裝店去買平均一顆是6.9元 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11513.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11541.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
價差2.5倍我們國人要花2.5倍的價格那比方說這個藍莓精華你到日本的藥妝店去買的時候日本那邊賣的一顆是4.1元我們台灣竟然高達11.3元價差將近三倍啦所以秘書長我希望你帶回去說的就是說用合理的價格購買保健品 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11543.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11561.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
這是我們台灣人民的健康權這是我們全體民眾的健康權這一點一定要保障但是你看喔你們沒有調查的這幾項我就講你們沒調查的這幾項你比方說不實廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11564.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11582.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
這些業者很多大量的用不實的廣告賺取暴利啊就像你們講的 你說38的高關稅結果只佔他售價的這個8.4是啊 那個差額在哪裡差額就是他們的暴利跟廣告費 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11583.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11606.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
好 那他們那麼高的廣告費喔我舉例 如果我們台灣的國民我們花三千塊買一罐保健品欸 竟然有兩千塊是在付廣告費那我們全體國人做何感想這是對的嗎 這是對的嗎然後這些不肖業者的惡劣 惡劣到什麼程度我舉例啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11607.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11626.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我舉例 光是有一項 說它會這個四神經再生完全抑制脂肪積蓄這樣子的一個藥品光去年一年被違規開罰八十次 總共光這一項藥品就罰了一千九百七十八萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11628.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11637.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
難道所有這些生氣產業業者藥廠做健康食品的總共去年一年罰了四億三千六百二十八萬那為什麼罰這麼高罰四億三千多萬這些業者都不怕因為一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11646.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11656.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
他的產值我們現在一年國內消費保健品消費1400億到1700億中間裡面有1200億是因為高關稅的保護讓國內的產業他得益有1200億這麼大的自己國內的市場1200億 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11672.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11678.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
高獲利他罰四億他當然不怕而且最嚴重的那個主席抱歉我一定要講這一點講兩點 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11682.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11696.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這一些啊 生技廠藥廠反噬了我們自己國內欸 大家不再去研發正式的藥品心臟病藥 高血壓藥 糖尿病藥正式的藥品不研發啦 為什麼那些研發困難 時間長 經費高他們啊 就用最輕鬆的 不需要什麼技術的保健品不是嗎 就荒廢了我們自己國內的製藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11710.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11728.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這不打緊喔你們還說高關稅是保護產業這些產業這些生技廠藥廠絕大多數因為這樣的保護這十年來他們都上市上櫃了耶他們可曾為我們國人的健康付出 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11729.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11742.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
你研發藥品你不研發至少國外專利到了這些重要救命的藥品那你做學名藥加惠我們國的降低我們健保藥品的支出他們不 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11746.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11770.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
他們用健康品 研發健康品向經濟部用研發藥品的名義向經濟部申請補助到時候成品的時候他交出來他說藥品沒辦法研發出來變成保健品得到財政部的高關稅保護經濟部補助他們研發藥品他們拿出成果是保健品 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11771.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11800.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
難道接受30%高關稅的保護難道我們國人要花兩倍到三倍的費用來幫他們支付他們的暴力他們的不實廣告所以這一點秘書長你一定要帶回去好不好跟你們監察院商量只有你們有調查權只有你們有辦法遏止這種無理不法惡劣的行徑好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11805.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11820.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
好 謝謝王委員好 秘書長 戴琳秘書長請回 謝謝好 下一位黃珊珊委員謝謝主席 我想請戴秘書長好 戴秘書長 謝謝委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11827.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11853.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
是 民主黨我上一次在司法法治委員會有跟你溝通過其實憲法立憲以來監察權是中華民國獨步全球然後從三權分立變成五權分立現在在七次修憲之後其實也走回所謂的三權分立同樣的監察院當時是被定義為國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11855.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11873.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
所以他是民意機關他是民選而且不管是直接選舉或是間接選舉他都是一個所謂的政權機關但經過修憲之後現在是一個治權機關也就是行政機關監督行政機關這個體制不管怎麼樣它就是現實但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11873.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11902.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我看到的是MIRROR在104年跟周陽山教授曾經寫過一篇文章你還記得嗎整個的過程你當時說監察權發展到現在碰到很多制度性跟法制面亟待解決的問題首先就是因為監察委員改成非民選之後拿掉了所謂的言論免責權因為沒有言論免責權所以就不敢公開所有的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11904.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11930.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
現在立法院在討論的叫做法庭直播國會直播已經在立法院實現了所以因為立法委員有相關的權力保障有言論免責權所以國會直播不是問題我們現在連協商都直播了我想問問米處長在你原來的立場裡面認為說取消言論免責權造成監察委員沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11931.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11956.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
暢所欲言所以必須要用密件來處理相關的案件你的意見是什麼你的意見是這個對監察權的行使是有問題的對吧是的這是我跟周老師一起寫的114年那因為我常年在監察院服務那其實我也看也是看過了這整個從一介針耳一直到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11957.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11984.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
所以監察權到現在為止其實還是暗砍在秘密會議裡面我在寫的時候當時呢是有關於彈劾權的審查是還是不記名的所以可以保護相關的言論我現在要講的是我今天要講的是現在大家都要討論法庭要不要直播所有個人隱私啊所有相關的這些問題啊我現在要說的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11986.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11994.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
中華民國監察院在彈劾公務人員有違法失職的情況下他有具有100%的公益性你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11996.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12015.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
當然是跟公益有關 沒錯也就是說到底有沒有個人隱私到底有沒有所謂的公益性公益的必要性法庭職位有沒有這些可以討論但是監察委員在彈劾一個不適任或者是違法失職的公務員的時候他具有百分之一百的公益性這個這一點我認為真的該公開的應該是監察院的彈劾過程甚至最後到 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12021.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12027.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
職務法庭去所謂的包括法官檢察官這些相關的程序反而更應該公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12029.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12053.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
在你的立場裡面這個應該也是你會同意的吧對就是說有關於在職務法庭或者是懲戒法院的那部分沒錯如果法庭直播大家有爭議的話反而是公務員彈劾的這些相關的程序應該優先直播這是我認為至少它具有百分之百的公義性另外我想問你你去年去 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12054.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12081.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
日本考察你也寫了一份考察報告我們很認真的看完了裡面說101年7月6號到113年9月30監察院在12年間總共彈劾了34個法官34個法官這個過程職務法庭判決免除法官職務的喪失公務員任用資格有一個撤職三個免除法官職務轉任法官以外職務有七個 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12083.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12101.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
這是一個不適任法官 我們國家的結果但是 我要問的秘書長是最近我們看到很多媒體大幅報導惡劣的檢察官製造證據入人於罪這些狀況 請問你們這幾年彈劾了多少個檢察官你不知道 最後不給我 但也有吧有 有的好 12年34個法官很驚人 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12112.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12130.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
現在的問題就是監察委員是不是有自行調查的主動權依照監察法施行細則第二四條是現在有沒有人針對這些媒體大幅報導妨害違反司法偵查不公開還有所謂的製造假證據有沒有監察委員自行調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12131.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12150.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
有關於偵查不公開的這個issue其實監察委員 有沒有監察委員自請調查過 現在就是有關於偵查不公開 其實有多數的調查案我記得的話應該是有九個我說最近的報導有沒有人申請自請調查目前沒有這些要人檢舉你們才受理是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12153.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12180.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
監察院有主動調查權監察院如果剛講的他以前是國會所以他有言論免責權然後他應該受到程序保障但是現在有這麼多媒體大幅報導的以前監察委員都會拿過來自己寫一個我要調查到今天為止這麼多報導司法官相關的所謂的他的行為不適當或違法的情況監察委員現在都不動了是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12182.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12197.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
就跟委員說明一下就是說在自動調查之前其實監察院依照人民稅務處理方法我要說的是秘書長如果監察院要繼續保持糾正糾舉彈劾都是監察委員的主要的權限我建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12199.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12219.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
監察委員們現在就應該針對這個社會上發生的重大事件發現公務員有可能違法失職不要再發生謝怡蓉不要再發生陳忠彥這種事情好嗎如果看到這些人已經被指控媒體大幅的報導哪個惡檢那你至少要查一下還他清白也好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12220.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12236.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
現在是不動啊監察院是完全不動啊委員我剛剛就是要說明並不是不動我們會依照人民訴訟處理辦法先去發函了解去蒐集資料因為在調查之前是要先蒐集資料蒐集資料可以啊但是我的意思是說剛剛講 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12238.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12267.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
監察院彈劾了34個法官值得肯定但是現在聽到這麼多我們希望如果真的要恢復監察院的公信力可能監察院要更主動一些尤其是剛剛講如果法庭要直播真正的職務法庭跟監察院彈劾的會議才真正應該開放好嗎謝謝好 謝謝黃珊珊委員好 謝謝戴祖密 謝謝好 接下來徐欣盈委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12278.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12282.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
好 謝謝主席 本席有請監察院的王秘書長有請 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12287.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12310.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
委員好秘書長好我們監察院其實也是民眾非常高度期待的機關因為監察院是我國憲法賦予最高的監察機關所以它理應是政府失能官員失職的時候人民最可以依賴的著目鳥 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12311.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12338.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
但是很可惜我們看到的是近幾年來這隻著墓鳥它著墓的這個監會似乎失去了也失去了勇氣更失去了監察院應有的獨立性跟效率這是民眾普遍的觀感所以現在的監察院讓民眾感覺不再是勇於皆必的制度守護人 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12339.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12367.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
而且呢更像是關在金籠子裡的一隻寵物鳥捉木鳥不應該是寵物鳥所以我不知道秘書長你們面對社會的期待跟很多的批評聲浪監察院內部有沒有檢討我們是不是應該要成為人民值得信賴的監察機關你等一下再回覆所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12368.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12393.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
監察權呢我們都認為不能只是做做樣子寫寫故事交交報告更不會是行政機關韓文的這個猶猜所以人民要的是真正的制衡的權利確保改革落地的憲政機關所以我們看到本席掌握了一些資料就是我們監察院從108年以來啊監察院結 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12399.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12428.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
半截的重大案件明顯下滑然後呢整體案件量持續的減少那我們覺得這不是個案這個是結構性的退縮和怠惰所以調查報告感覺充其量只是個記錄者但監察院的職責應該是糾舉者如果糾舉失職官員都做不到那我們監察機關的存在意義是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12430.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12444.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
為什麼我們看到很多社會上民怨的事件 重大官員的為師案件都是媒體或立法院揭露在先 監察院始終慢半拍 而且不了了之 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12445.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12469.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
所以面對這樣的一個失職案件彈劾率極低調查時間又冗長社會觀感極差的情況下部分的監察委員反倒積極的參與國際出訪做這個形象工程跟在國內的調查績效形成了非常大的一個反差所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12470.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12482.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
人民的陳情申冤案不好好做卻花大筆的公帑搞國際拜會這不是監察制度的初衷是公器私用的歪風所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12484.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12501.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我們主張監察院要重新定位它不能是裝飾民主的機構必須真正落實憲政制衡的力量所以請秘書長回應你是否支持建立監察權績效公開的評鑑制度是或否 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12503.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12519.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
請委員讓我說明一下這有關於這個案件的這樣子委員這樣分類其實是我們調查案件注意事項第五點的所謂的一般案件是要求三個月要結案重大案件是六個月特殊重大是一年其實特殊重大是持續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12520.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12542.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
持續的增加比第五屆比起來是有四倍以上的增加如果案件真的有增加是增加的那你到底有沒有改善你的案件增加你案件我又不看表面是不是有改善是不是有具體的讓民眾感受到大家的觀感就是這樣子就是我們提出來的調查報告都會對外公開沒關係那你是否支持監察 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12548.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12555.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
是否支持重啟監委評鑑機制呢?接受國會或民間的評分監督是否支持?更為說明監委是依據法律獨立行使職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12569.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12592.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
那至於說那這個只是一個評鑑機制那要看是什麼樣的一個組織或者機構或者是評鑑的標準最後最後那其實有些因為它是依據法律獨立行使支持我知道你支持啦那是否願意檢討近年低落的辦案成效提出具體的改進報告跟委員說明我們不認為我們的辦案成效有低落 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12595.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12615.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
而且我們人民陳情案件第六屆到現在為止有七萬七千多件那其實從八十八年一直到五月調查報告是九千多件沒有辦法真正糾舉彈劾而且很多公務人員重大疏失你們都沒有辦法進行整個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12618.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12641.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
彈劾案彈劾人數跟五屆比起來也都是增加的我不好提出個案啦我不提出這些社會上重大案件其實民眾都知道 翻翻你去google或者是新聞查一查都知道其實執行情況都不佳啦很多民眾的陳情以及甚至這個社會上的重大案件所以我們希望啦 你如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12642.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12648.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
願意檢討近年辦案的成效或者是你可以提出具體的改進報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12650.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12652.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
有關於相關學案 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12674.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12701.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
是重大官員的部分我想你知道沒關係您在這邊所提的我想跟社會的觀感都是不一樣沒關係你如果有的話你把這個報告給我我們也會再回應你們好不好因為今天我們的時間有限我也不好占用後面委員的時間好謝謝新委員那接著請王洪威委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12708.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12717.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
好 謝謝主席我請行政院副主計長還有監察院的代理秘書長來 副主計長跟王代理秘書長我想今天因為我們主要是審查就是我們監察院因為辦理這個國際研討會來動用第二預備金那雖然在立法院我們現在有這個要廢監察院的一個修憲的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12736.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12764.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
但是呢終究就是如果在台灣特別是在台北市能辦這個國際研討會基本上我們還是願意支持的因為750萬這個金額也不是非常多那我們當然希望說能夠把它辦得能夠順利成功啦那我想請問一下副主記長我們今年的第二預備金是多少錢80億80億比去年其實增加6億元之多嘛對 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12765.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12786.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
那我想請問一下就是像我們今天是審查這個動用二倍金我認為他的這個名義是合理的而且我們也願意支持那我想請問一下馬上在7月26號辦理的這個大罷免那麼是不是中選會已經有向行政院來申請二倍金動用二倍金 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12788.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12814.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
目前我還沒看到但是我們條底有這個需求來時間暫停一下請同仁來時間暫停就我所知道我們有預框這個需求沒有這個預算就是中選會有反映有這個需求但是它正式的我們還沒看到還沒有正式來跟申請嗎因為7月26不到一個月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12815.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12838.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那這個勢必動用第二預備金啦因為我們知道他是根本完全沒有編列相關預算那我們都認為因為本來大概是12億元之多那因為原來他要罷免40位的立法委員嘛那現在可能把他縮減成大概25位啦還包含一位縣市首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12840.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12852.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
但是我們覺得像這樣子來動用二倍金就極為不合理因為剛才也講為什麼在今年度今年度我們把二倍金一毛都沒有刪因為你們從74億把它提高到80億 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12859.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12863.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
在前一陣子為了要幫大罷免增溫一直說藍白亂刪預算可是呢我們是當用則用當刪則刪在二倍金的部分為什麼願意即便是增加6億元我們是也有感於在尤其現在極端性的氣候 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12880.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12897.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那麼很可能會有一些災害或者有一些緊急性的政務支出所以呢把它編列到80億元但是呢今天增加二倍金不是讓你來做大罷免的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12897.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12922.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
對不對你這大罷免花國家起碼我像這次我剛說12億他可能少一點因為罷免的委員不如之前想要罷的這麼多但是呢也將近10億元那看起來他一定要用二倍金所以他現在只是來跟你們講說他們要動用二倍金只是呢他沒有確切的金額而已所以我在這邊要特別說啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12924.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12944.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
就是我們今天所有的這個預算特別是這個二倍金的部分當然我們有災害準備金我們也有二倍金二倍金的提高是為了讓我們行政院有一些緊急性的政務支出或者是這些災損 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12946.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12973.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
能夠或者是我們今天要辦理這些國際的研討會讓你們來做這些事情而不是讓你們來浪費納稅人的錢來搞大罷免來搞政治鬥爭我想這一點一定要核心序明因為當時我們也是在整個二倍金的預算的時候那大家也都是支持的好 那另外想請教一下那個代理秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12974.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12997.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
因為之前啊這個監察院有所謂的用公務車的爭議那你們現在說要移送這個紀律委員會請問一下紀律委員會召開了嗎預定是七月份召開七月份因為現在還沒有到七月七月一號呢還是七月三十一號呢七月上旬 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12998.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13026.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
那為什麼要等到這麼久跟委員說明就是在地理委員會在開會之前那它其實是一開始是個人民書狀有兩位人民來監察院提告類似陳情一個就是黃國昌委員辦公室這邊然後一位是沒有沒有我沒有因為我知道已經有人去有人去告發那你們也說本來不做嘛本來說我們沒有辦法自己調查自己大家覺得很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13027.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13052.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
沒有沒有所以你們怎麼胡作非為都沒有辦法調查自己但是現在說既然要啟動調查但是為什麼要這麼久呢因為事實上這個事件發生在五月底然後你們要事隔一個多月才來開這種紀律委員會我必須要講啦因為這件事情已經在社會觀感上是很差的 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13053.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13080.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
然後你們過了這麼久的時間雖然呢 這個秘書長 李靜怡秘書長她辭職下台但是其他被指控的委員都還在任上那你們也應該趕快自清啦我真的還是希望說因為你們現在告訴我們七月七月召開什麼時候 因為七月還沒有到啊是不是你們應該盡快的把紀律委員會召開到底你們對外的說明是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13082.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13089.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
趕快能夠對外有一個說法對外面一個交代能夠盡早可以嗎是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13090.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13117.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
可以齁 那可以提前吧不要再等到說你們還要派黃照紀律嗎因為紀律委員會設置辦法要三分之二委員的出席才可以開會那因為雖然我們沒有預算可是監委的相關的職權不管是調查 巡查他們都還是進行中所以要等到要湊到所有三分之二委員以上五位要能夠共同的時間所以我們已經排定了七月上巡 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13117.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13122.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
我覺得這是社會觀感的問題應該盡快我們一聽到到現在都沒有開會覺得怎麼會這麼扯這樣子至少也是危機處理好嗎好謝謝洪薇接著我們請蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在接著我們請林青旗委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13149.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13166.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
主席 福建同仁 大家好我這邊是不是請行政院主席總署的副主席長 陳副主席長還有王代理秘書長好 副主席長 王代理秘書長人權委員會的執密 周執密周執行秘書周執行秘書 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13175.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13198.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
大家好今天我們在這邊是針對監察院在2025年我們要舉辦第37屆的澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會即人權國際研討會的這個案子因為你們是動用二倍經我想藉這個機會來探討一下然後也做一些建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13200.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13218.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
因為這次我們辦的這個主題裡面很清楚的就談到澳紐所以本席想在這邊跟你們探討一下這個核心的議題在澳紐跟太平洋諸國的人權和歷史正義我們希望能夠透過這個機會也讓原住民的這個區塊被了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13222.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13238.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那但是我已經我看到你們今天送的資料那個議程大概有一些排定經費也有一些分配了那所以我想我下面做的建議是不是看看你們在可以的空間裡面是不是有機會在這一次就做一些調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13240.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13262.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
所以我先講一下這個澳紐的經驗澳洲在2023年原住民族之聲要路線的全國公投雖然沒有通過但是這個過程當中展現的制度成熟跟全民對於原住民參與憲政體制的高度熱烈討論其實是有很大的一個價值所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13262.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13277.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
建立獨立的原住民族諮詢機構然後保障對國會法案提出意見的制度設計那也因此我們看到這個人權治理的走向也越來越先進那第二個部分是紐西蘭紐西蘭在這個淮唐一條約 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13283.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13304.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
他設置了一個 將這樣一個國家治理的核心放進了常設審裁的一個功能也就是在將維他命這樣一個條約的概念裡面做一個法制性的一個處理那來推行歷史的不育跟調查還有補償那這些制度就具有一些法律效力所以紐西蘭的情況是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13305.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13322.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
所以在政府部門跟原住民長期對話當中呢那也透過這個平台就更為穩定也比較永續那這個部分可以提供我們在制度深化跟權力保障上的一個參考那你們今年呢是監察院是主辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13323.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13353.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
主辦國那我們議程設計應該第一我們看名字那個紐澳是很重要的這個帶領者那我們議程當然要針對各地區國家的這個制度優勢跟政策實踐那我這邊是希望能夠將原住民族人權還有在歷史正義族群平等這些主題也能夠納入一個討論的主軸就比較不會變成一個像形式會議流程感覺有點像大拜拜這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13354.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13368.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
所以我希望藉這個機會能夠有機會邀請我剛才其實前面講的澳洲那聯邦原民事務相關的這個官員那另外紐西蘭因為這個Watani的Tribunal有入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13369.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13393.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
所以他的現任或卸任的委員如果有機會來的話成員有機會來的話那這樣子其實在具有國際聲望的這一些人來跟我們做一些討論甚至太平洋原民治理食物的人能夠一起來討論原住民族人權在當地跟我們國家的一個變化那這樣我們就可以就不同的結構不同的觀點來 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13395.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13421.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
討論出更多的更寬廣的一個對話所以這些對象我是從你們的這個已經規劃的會議主題裡面看起來可能是比較匱乏的所以我就很直接的希望而且今年我們是主辦國是比較能夠主導這個議程跟內容還有成員所以我還是希望說有這個機會的話不知道這個部分有沒有可能就我剛才講的這幾個面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13424.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13448.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
謝謝委員的提議我們的議程雖然是目前是佔框定是這樣子可是剛剛委員提到的澳洲跟紐西蘭它的特殊性其實是有關於原住民族的人權跟他的Tribunal的那部分那因為我們要邀請澳洲或者紐西蘭的外賓或者是講者來 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13450.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13478.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
來台灣來參與這樣子的國際會議其實我們的經費是不是非常的應該你們會覺得很窘迫有的東西就看你怎麼辦然後怎麼去溝通跟聯繫所以是不是在可以的狀況下你們是不是還是可以朝這樣一個方向來走那因為你看你們標題這個紐澳是這麼重要的國家而且你說太平洋相關的其實很多南島語族的島語我相信你們可能也有邀到相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13479.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13494.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
一些重要的這個成員那這個部分如果時間還可以是不是可以透過這個機會也讓大家知道說我們在人權的這個努力上事實上可能國際社會也有沒有看到的這個部分所以是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13495.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13521.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
新日本在做一些努力April是會員大會所以原則上太平洋的島國有六個可是就是我們目前也是只有三個國家願意來出席我們還在努力中然後那至於議題的部分因為這個這次的主軸還是監察就是監察室所以委員所提示的那部分呢我們會努力研究然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13522.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13544.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
就請妳放進這個考量當中我不知道你們那三個session是打算用什麼樣子的方式那當然專題演講就比較沒有空間但是session如果有分的話或許還有機會來做一些置放謝謝委員的建議所以在內容上我想主席處應該這邊也是支持的嘛那在內容上像我國在這幾年原住民族基本法的立法歷程 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13545.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13562.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
還有政策架構跟實際的實施困境那甚至在監察院有一些資料我們也是會參考的那我們很希望這個部分能夠被國際所周知所以這是今天本席提出來很重要的一個要點那可以的情況真的請你們多加考量好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13563.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13587.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
現在人權委員會我們也希望在原住民的這塊的比例或許可以再努力跟精進一些 好嗎好 謝謝林委員羅明財 羅明財 羅明財委員不在林思明 林思明 林思明委員不在那今日登記花園委員均已詢答完畢現在進行討論事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13590.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13616.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那即處理那請醫事人員宣讀審查審查行政院涵為監察院一百一十四年度辦理二零二五年第三十七屆澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會及人權國際研討會所需經費不敷請同意動之一百一十四年度中央政府總預算第二預備金七百五十萬元支應案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13622.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13642.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好 請問在場的委員同不同意監察院動資2025年第37屆奧紐及太平洋地區監察院監察室年會暨人權國際研討會所需要的經費不敷術的第二億倍金750萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13645.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13656.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
主席好來陳一貞委員這個很好是在我們國內舉辦嘛對不對對嘛齁那我們這個人權委員會的主任委員到時候要出席參加齁好當然記錄下來就好了OK你等一下你說怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13665.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13685.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
是 來很重要的會議 稍微我確認一下陳玉珍委員的意思就是說我也請監察院這邊回答一下因為 等一下 陳佩儀委員那個請那個代理秘書長這個我們做決議哪裡需要她回答我剛剛已經問過了直接坐在位子上就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13688.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13709.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
這個錢好好用喔本院是主辦的單位是主辦國主席是APO區域的理事長主席是區域理事長APO的區域理事長不是監察人我們沒有人要參加嗎我們誰要參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13711.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13716.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我們監察院沒有派員參加在我們這裡辦應該有吧有的我們是主辦單位主席是April的理事長沒問題 但是我們也會派員參加吧我們會我要派誰呢我們的人權委員會有主任委員吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13728.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13741.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我再問 我再問是 我們副院長為什麼 她是主任委員嗎這是監察 這是監察室不是 這個是人權國際研討會監察室會你要全民唸給陳一貞委員監察室聯會 即人權國際研討會啊不是人權嗎陳一貞委員要不要讓他們好好講一下到底這個會議在監察院目前的分工是由誰負責來 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13756.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13778.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
目前這個會議是監察院負責的不是監察院的國家人權委員會那他會議的主題呢這次的主題是APRIL的最主要是APRIL的年會他是會員國的年會這是最重要的一個主題另外隔天是有個研討會那只是這次的研討會我們把它定性成跟人權有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13780.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13785.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
主辦還不是國家人權委員會所以這次的會議除了監察使聯會你是主題選舉還有人權國際因為剛剛我們很多民進黨委員在跟委員說明還有包括審計所以就是監察審計人權我們希望是比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13799.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13818.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我會特別提這個是因為剛剛我們很多民進黨的執政黨委員都在說因為這是馬英九時代啊什麼人權委員會啊什麼我看到吳思耀委員王思堅委員不是不是還有在講嗎這個很重要我支持我沒有反對馬東東時代這也是一樣也是年會 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13819.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13848.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
是會有一個研討會你不用擔心我們支持這個會議也願意給你們這個預算你不用擔心我先把它講完不是反對我們已經討論過是支持但是這個人權委員會主任委員要參加是嗎我們副院長會參加副院長是主任委員嗎我們副院長不是主任委員因為我再次說明這是監察你們主任委員為什麼不參加你們副院委員這是監察院所主任的你告訴我為什麼主任委員不能參加你告訴我為什麼你回答就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13854.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13864.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
我們請王代理秘書長你等所有委員都發言完畢以後你一併回答這樣好不好那我們先請陳一貞委員發言我叫錯了是陳佩妤 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13873.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13894.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
因為剛好我們在這九屆第十屆我們參與過監察院組織法的修法其實過去在第九屆的立法院的時候那時候總統府要推動將原來任務編讀在總統府下的人權委員會希望能夠有一個法制化的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13895.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13908.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
所以那時候我們推動監察院的組織法就將訂了一個人權委員的專章將這個人權委員會歸屬於監察院底下的一個重要的機構那事實上這個人權委員會在很多國家它是獨立機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13910.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13924.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
那也完全沒有附屬在任何行政機關之下那由於台灣的憲政體制比較獨特我們有五個權 五權憲法所以監察權呢 那時候呢被認定它不會是屬於行政權或司法權的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13925.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13947.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
所以那時候在討論之後將國家人權委員會就放在跟監察院一樣那也考量到我國的監察院的屬性跟其他世界各國的監察室相接近因此就有這樣的設計不過事實上在監察院裡面人權委員會的一個組織架構它非常的特別它首先是由總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13948.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13965.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
在提名監察院院長的同時就指派了監察院的院長成為人權委員會的主任委員然後再由這個主任委員也就是監察院院長他自己去任命 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13966.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13995.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
監察委員當中的八名擔任我們人權委員的常任委員那因為人權委員應該是七名啦因為監察人權委員有十名那另外有兩名呢是屬於變動的委員那這兩名呢就是另外一樣用這樣的程序來產生主要強調的是監察院政府院長及監察委員二十九人當中其中主任委員是由總統在提名 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13997.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14016.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
監察院長的時候就同時指派那當然總統在提名監察院的委員跟政府院長的時候是要經過立法院的同意權的但是人權委員會的委員就不是那在目前情況十位人權委員當中有兩位委員是由不是這八名當時指派的委員當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14018.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14033 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
有浮動式的但是他們的副主任委員是由大家來推選的我再強調一次目前監察院的人權委員會的副主任委員是由委員互推的 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14033.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14052.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那這種情況之下主任委員既然是總統在提名院長的時候同時指派所以呢主任委員跟監察院長他同時具有代表我們國家監察院的象徵也代表我們國家將人權委員會的一個相當崇高的位置但是實質上呢在平常的人權委員的運作上 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14053.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14071.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
副主任委員他是由委員們互選出來互推出來的他反而是實際上在參與人權委員會運作的委員那目前可能我們在今天通過預算的同時委員關心的是未來代表我們國家人權委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14072.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14085.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
去出席這個年會的 是哪一個是不是熟悉人權業務的重要的一個首長我想這我們關切 既然我們是主辦國那我們能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14086.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14100.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
邀請其他國家來那當然我們要跟他交流那交流的一個很大的項目就是國家人權的業務那我想因為委員們大家對於國家人權委員會和建造院的關係可能呢因為修法的時候有點複雜那我們也希望說未來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14103.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14125.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
未來我想也很歡迎藍白支持我們廢考監修憲的方式廢考監而這當中的人權委員會不管未來的考監的機制怎麼設計這個國家人權委員會一定要好好的來維護那今天這個年會既然是跟人權相關的議題我們也希望監察院國家人權委員會要有非常恰當的人員來參與以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14128.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14148.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
好 謝謝嘉賓 那陳培怡委員好 所以我想要確認一下如果我們看這個你們交出來的口頭報告的書面資料裡面所提到的是這個是監察院來辦理2025年第37屆APOL這個年會 對吧所以監察院主辦所以你剛剛說是由副院長代表出席 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14149.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14168.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
對所以我認為這個在法理上應該是合於法規範但是我也想要請教陳玉珍委員你剛剛口口聲聲說你支持並且你會願意通過這個預算但你又加了一個但書就是說你要指名那我不知道你的指名的意思是你認為只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14170.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14191.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
人權委員會的主任委員才可以代表監察院去參加這個所謂的APPLE年會還是你認為其他委員都不適格去參加這個委員會還有如果你要加上這個但書但如果他們有實際上的困難那是不是其實你還是在擋這個預算你還是沒有想要支持這個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14192.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14193.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
我講更清楚一點好不好我會講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14216.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14226.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
主席 報告主席現在台灣的人權委員會的主委就是我們的監察院院長也就是陳菊院長這是剛剛陳玉珍委員親口說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14228.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14255.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
我會講說是人權委員會主委是因為上面有講到說要人權的國際研討會啦但是我也可以接受我跟你講我可以接受因為這是我們是主辦國啦然後是在我們這邊辦嘛而且是監察使聯會嘛所以我也不一定要人權委員會主委這也可以接受因為剛有人權委員會嘛那我們監察院就請我們院長參加這個代表我們主辦國非常的非常重視這個活動啊那你要告訴我不能參加的理由是什麼啊你可以告訴我為什麼我們不重視嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14257.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14267.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
為什麼副院長不重視監察院 而且監察院院長是總統派的總統派的當然是最重要的因為陳昇委員要要求總統提名你覺得院長比較重要還是副院長比較重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14274.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14295.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
你告訴我原因為什麼會 會員長代理 我跟你講 講白一點大家都知道因為我們院長現在就是身體不舒服嘛 我也都知道嘛 對不對所以他沒有辦法參加嘛個人隱私個人隱私 但現在是公務啊 個人隱私我尊重我希望他早日康復你怎麼知道他明天不會好 說明明天就好你怎麼可以有這種 請問那個什麼會辦那個生病沒有那麼好 9月份啊 9月份那如果因為個人隱私隱私 影響到整個國家的政府發展這樣對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14299.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14322.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那我們以後不要派院長啊不要提名院長 要評副院長就好啦 如果照理說的話就這樣子好 那所以如果沒有包括主席所以陳玉珍委員的意思就是說如果他要的人權委員會的主委或者是我們監察院院長沒有辦法出席他就不支持這個預算嗎我支持喔 我支持 但是就是院長為什麼不能出席 他應該可以出席啊他怎麼可能不可以出席院長不能出席是院長的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14323.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14340.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
我們這個制度不用我同意但是這個是代表我們是主辦國對這個會議的重視嘛人權委員 主任委員 要求都非常合理啊那他有沒有生病我也不希望他這樣我希望他身體好好的很快就好 我也相信會這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14341.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14355.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我不是適合指 我一直都說我一直都說這是很好啊支持啊 支持啊 但輸就是這樣啊議長委員 議長委員 來院長 院長主持 然後或者人權委會就可以人權委會 主任委也可以啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14357.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14380.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
你們可以決議嘛韓國瑜出國參加小孩畢業典禮他就可以讓副院長代理主持院會那請問 請問為什麼我們的副院長不能代理主持會議所以韓國瑜不能出國 但陳菊可以原本副院長來進台任職上班有人說韓國瑜的副院長沒有來我現在請陳可以站在那邊台上我沒有規定啊按照法律 沒有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14672.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14677.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
各位同仁我們繼續開會現在審查完畢同意動之提報宴會繼續本次會議做成如下的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14690.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14705.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
因為剛剛不是休息時間的時候陳玉珍委員的發言都會列入公報跟議事錄我不知道那個但書的成立效力對於監察院最後會造成什麼影響沒有沒有 裴議委員 剛才是休息期間不是不是 不是以前他就說他的但書不是 不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14711.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14730.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
報告主席那你裁決嘛因為如果一旦那個列入記錄是不是他們日後就會按照國民黨過去的手法他就會拿這個來要求監察院要製造更多的危難陳一貞委員他沒有就是陳一貞委員拜託我裁決一下啦我們不列入但書啦好不好好謝謝你謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14733.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14750.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
那本次會議作成如下的決議一說明跟詢答完畢二委員質詢為及時答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會在一週內以書面答覆委員另外有要求期限者走期鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14751.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14770.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
委員林思敏 羅明采所提的書面質詢委員王宏威 林青旗所提的書面補充資料經列入紀錄刊登公報並且相關部會以書面答覆那針對行政院含這個請 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14778.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14798.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
針對行政院含為監察院一百一十四年度辦理二零二五年度第37屆奧紐及太平洋地區監察史年會兼人權國際研討會所需要的經費不敷請同意動資一百一十四年度中央政府總預算第二億倍金七百五十萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14801.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14823.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
應付應案資應案那個審查完略同意動之報題宴會請問各位委員針對以上的決議有沒有異議好那就通過另對本次會議議事錄授權有本席核定後確定請問各位委員有沒有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14825.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14837.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
好 沒有異議 那通過本次會議議程已進行完畢 倘若有不在場的委員提補題書面執行一併列入紀錄 刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理 散會 |