| IVOD_ID |
167842 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167842 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-25T09:46:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-25T09:59:51+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:12 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/755992caaad3baaec2eb9abd2ac0cbf99e5efe6b22224a4d5dcddfbaa3ed0a4382b6391befdefecc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
沈發惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:46:39 - 09:59:51 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。
【3月25日及26日兩天一次會】） |
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白署長捷隆 |
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0.029 |
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你有空嗎?對,就是這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
37.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
61.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好那個沈發慧委員請主席我們請人事長好請那個人事長委員長人事長早安這個我今天針對這個我們人事行政總署的這個你們的書面的這個業務報告我大概看了裡面我有一個比較我個人比較關注的問題來這裡就教於人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
65.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
90.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我們在這個書面報告裡面,我們有關於近期推動的重要業務成果裡面第五項的這個營造優實職場,建構健康安全環境裡面最重要的一個協同公務人員保障這個協同這個保訓會這個完備職場霸凌防治及申訴處理機制這個部分你們是列為你們的近期推動的重要業務成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
92.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
116.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以這個事實上在公務人員的職場霸凌防治的部分我們人事單位其實是一個執行單位,是最重要的執行單位按照我們去年修正的公務人員保障法還有去年修正的公務人員執行植物安全衛生防護辦法、安慰辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
118.633 |
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128.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個裡面大概申訴機關是保訓會但是其他的這些執行大概都是人事單位這是我們人事單位由我們人事總署來總管 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
129.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
159.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那這個部分我就是看我們我就仔細看說那我們人種到底在這裡面在這個職場霸凌裡面我們做了什麼重要的是重大的成果我就看你們書面報告結果你們的書面報告裡面說你們的重大成果就是這個有關於這個訂定公務人員執行職務遭受職場霸凌的這個防治處理原則你們訂立這個防治處理原則這是第一個重大成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
160.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
189.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
第二個重大成果就是本處持續協助機關落實執行持續協助各機關落實執行也就是說我們從修法去年修法那今年1月9號開始實施今年實施到現在看起來整個我們這些相關的這個職場霸凌公務人員職場霸凌相關的這些職場霸凌防治的工作其實都是落實在各個機關裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
191.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
220.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
就是高度依賴各個機關自己自己來自行處理啦按照你們的辦法就是基本上就是各個機關自行處理了你們人總只負責宣導跟這個關心他的這個協助這個各個機關的這個落實執行也就是說我們目前人總並沒有扮演一個本來我認為在這個機制裡面人總應該扮演的重要角色就是一個跨機關的一個申訴跟追蹤的平台我認為這是應該人總要扮演 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
222.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
236.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我能不能稍微說明一下事實上是從113年的12月13號一開始公務人員保障法還有安慰辦法還沒有修正過之前我們累計到今年228總共 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
240.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
269.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們有一個匯總平台現在總共有859件剛才委員指教的第一個我們有第一個遵循的辦法因為這一套標準撒下去是在所有中央地方還有很多小單位的人事單位我們如果沒有第一個遊戲規則可操作性的遊戲規則人事人員碰到這個霸凌不知道要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
270.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
297.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以我們要定這個遊戲規則原則這些我都有看過問題是現在還是實際上還是高度依賴各個機關自己各個機關他自己去執行了所以我們人種來這個機關有沒有落實在執行事實上你們現在也沒有什麼樣的機制沒有什麼統計也沒有什麼公開的制度來監督到底各個機關有沒有落實執行這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
299.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
320.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個分兩個部分,一個是保訓會他每一年會去督導一次另外我們有要求所有的我們派在各個縣市人事處他會成立一個service team因為很多小單位碰到這種事情他跟一兩個人而已,他不知道怎麼做沒關係,我問一個更大的,你說一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
326.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
355.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就按照這個公務人員執行這個安全衛生辦法按照安慰辦法裡面的第四條第四條他就規定說主管機關第五條啦第五條他說各機關應該組成安全衛生防護委員會應喔 應組成那第四條就是說主管機關得聘各機關得這個是得成立諮詢會諮詢會是得成立但是有關於安全衛生防護委員會這是應成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
356.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
366.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
請問人事總署現在各機關是不是全部每一個全國每一個機關都已經成立了已經依照這個安慰辦法第五條成立了防護委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
370.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
387.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
保訓會他每一年都會去調查他現在給我們的資料全部都有成立啊全部都成立了嗎對都有成立啊因成立的中央各部會跟地方機關因成立的一定要有成立喔你拿到的主要跟我拿到的不一樣喔欸保訓會給完的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
388.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
415.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
全部 全國各中央部會跟地方機關都已經設立了諮詢會或者是跟這個防護委員會嗎我們有建立全國性 我們人種自己啦因成立的都有成立啦因為他是法令規定的 而且保証會他都有去調查我拿到保証會資料沒有全部都有成立為什麼保証會給你們的資料是全部都已經成立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
416.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
445.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們會後再補充一些資料給委員對於未沒有按照規定成立你現在講說全部都成立了你回去了解看看以我從保訓會內掌握的資料是沒有全部成立但是未依規定設立長期運作機關的現在也沒有什麼追蹤機制也沒有什麼改進的期限都沒有這個部分請我們人事總署要掌握好不好好那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
447.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
469.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好,這個職場霸凌這部分,你會後你要去掌握,以我的了解這個應該是沒有全部成立了那接下來,我另外一個也是我關心的一個重要問題因為我們在這個,我們人事總署去年也曾經發過一個新聞稿有關於這個公路人員到中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
470.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
478.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
的這個規範在這個規定中國人到中國的這個規範裡面我們人事總署扮演什麼樣的職責負責哪些部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
479.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
505.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
有關於這個管制公務人員到中國的這個裡面我們人事總署扮演什麼樣的角色我們配合陸委會我們有通告全國的人事主管機關就按照陸委會給我們的一個指令該去到大陸或是澳門或是香港無論是陸去或是過境這些都一定要登陸然後也要事先核准 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
506.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
521.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然後不同層級的十一職等以上的要經過移民署有關這個問題有很多不同的權責機關陸委會有權責內政部也有法務部也有我們人事總署也是重要的一個管制單位權責單位這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
527.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
538.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
去年的5月21號監察院有一個有關近十年違法附中公務人員的一個調查報告這個調查報告任市長有沒有看過沒有回覆,你有沒有看過他裡面統計啦,統計近十年近十年違規前往中國的勢力 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
556.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
582.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個高階文官有55人基層文官有263人加起來是318人而且在調查報告裡面就直接指出說事實上這個只是有統計的事實上應該還有其他的黑數因為按照我們現在的規定在監察院的這個糾正文裡面他就直接說有黑數除了這318人以外另外還有黑數 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
583.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
586.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那這部分他也指出說我們這個人事總署在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
589.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
616.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個附中的這個管理權責的機關的分工裡面我們人事總署轄管各機關人事人員辦理公務員附中國的這個法規宣導法規宣導還有到中國的申請的審核也是我們人事總署來負責的那這個報送移民署的這個公務員的附入的這個線上申請系統的審查也是我們人事總署的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
620.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
626.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
然後有關違法違規赴中國案件的行政懲處也是我們總署對不對行政懲處對懲處是你們好我現在就講懲處啦我剛才說的這是我們黑數我們就再不討論光以監察院查出來是318人這318人的懲處齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
644.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
672.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我這裡有列一個表 列一個表有關於這個到底這個這個懲處的結果是怎麼樣你們這裡面有記大過一次的很少啦 記大過一次的記過兩次的三個記大過一次五個記過一次記過兩次 十一個記過一次其他的申戒申戒兩次 申戒一次的最多然後再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
674.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
689.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
履歷純紀到履歷純紀這個就已經幾乎是最輕的處分了但是其實除了這個履歷純紀以外你們還有很多是用口頭警告而已啦有很多要違規附中之後最後結果你們的懲處就是口頭警告對不對這個規定是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
705.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
724.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你說所謂新的規定是什麼?第一屆齁,一屆就,兩屆就,第三屆就你說對今年當時開始?今年,也是,你們要等到今年七月才要開始?因為那個新的規定,我就叫新的規定,進行的問題,我們會加強宣導,而且我們會尊重我們民事人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
735.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
761.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你們7月1號要統一這個懲處標準這很好 這就是我今天的訴求我就認為你們應該要統一這樣子懲處標準現在的懲處標準太不一致了有的機關給你寄過 有的可以寄申誡 有的給你履歷存寄有的甚至只有口頭警告那不只是輕重不一啊同樣一個人他疏失違規 到底他去好幾趟到底是一罰還是累罰 這個在各個機關也都不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
763.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
790.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這樣子你在各個機關處理你們有一個統一的標準最後的結果就是造成你這個懲處的威信蕩然無存所以今天7月1號之後的規定請你們一份資料給我辦公室好不好我就是希望說能夠統一這樣子的懲處規定這是我們人事總署在這裡面讓違規附中國的這些公務人員管制我們人事總署裡面最重要的職責以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
792.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
792.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
對好 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-03-25T09:47:19.667000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-03-25T09:47:21.089000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
主席，請人事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-03-25T09:47:21.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-03-25T09:47:24.512000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請人事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-03-25T09:47:24.512000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-03-25T09:47:25.312000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
委員早。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-03-25T09:47:25.312000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-03-25T09:47:25.853000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
人事長早安。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-03-25T09:47:25.993000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-03-25T09:47:40.445000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
我看了今天人事行政總處提出的書面業務報告，裡面有幾個我個人比較關注的問題，在此就教於人事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.814 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-03-25T09:47:44.976000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-03-25T09:48:09.765000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
首先，關於書面報告所提近期推動重要業務成果中，第五項是營造優質職場，建構健康安全環境，其中最重要的一部分是偕同保訓會，完備職場霸凌防治及申訴處理機制，這是列為你們近期推動重要業務成果。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.824 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-03-25T09:48:12.225000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-03-25T09:49:25.939000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
事實上公務人員職場霸凌防治的部分，人事單位是一個最重要的執行單位，按照我們去年修正的公務人員保障法還有去年修正的公務人員執行職務安全衛生防護辦法，裡面的申訴機關是保訓會，但是平時其他的執行大概都是由人事單位來做，由人事總處來總管，這部分我有仔細看了人總到底在霸凌裡面有什麼重要且重大的成果，結果你們的書面報告裡面說你們的重大成果是訂定了公務人員執行職務遭受職場霸凌防治處理原則，即你們訂立了這個防治處理原則，這是第一個重大成果；第二個重大成果，就是本處持續協助各機關落實執行。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.925 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-03-25T09:49:27.499000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-03-25T09:50:19.132000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
也就是，我們從去年修法、今年1月9號開始實施到現在，看起來整個公務人員職場霸凌相關的防治工作，其實都是落實在各個機關裡面，這是高度依賴各個機關自行處理，按照你們的辦法，基本上就是各個機關自行處理，你們人總只負責宣導跟關心，協助各個機關落實執行，也就是目前人總並沒有扮演人總在這個機制裡面本來應該扮演的重要角色，就是一個跨機關的申訴、追蹤平臺，我認為這是人總應該要扮演的角色。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.942 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-03-25T09:50:21.025000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-03-25T09:50:22.266000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
我能不能稍微說明一下？好。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-03-25T09:50:24.807000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-03-25T09:50:44.658000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
事實上，從113年12月13號開始，在公務人員保障法和公務人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法還沒有修正通過之前，我們有一個彙總的通報平臺，累計到今年總共有859件。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.585 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-03-25T09:50:45.238000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-03-25T09:51:11.969000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
剛才委員指教的第一個問題，我們有訂一個遵循的辦法，因為這一套標準灑下去是所有中央、地方還有很多小機關的人事單位，我們如果沒有訂一個具可操作性的遊戲規則，人事人員在碰到霸凌時會不知道要怎麼處理，所以我們要訂出這個遊戲規則。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.874 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-03-25T09:51:12.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-03-25T09:51:36.303000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
我知道，我都有看過這些原則，問題是現在還是高度依賴各個機關自己去執行，人總對各個機關有沒有落實執行，事實上，你們現在也沒有什麼樣的機制、沒有做什麼統計也沒有什麼公開的制度來監督到底各個機關有沒有落實執行。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.884 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-03-25T09:51:36.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-03-25T09:51:42.275000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
這分兩個部分，一個是保訓會，他們每一年會去督導一次。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-03-25T09:51:42.755000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-03-25T09:51:59.087000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
另外，我們有要求我們所有派在各個縣市的人事處成立一個service team，很多小單位在碰到這種事情時，因為才只有一、兩個人而已，他們不知道要怎麼處理。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-03-25T09:51:59.127000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-03-25T09:52:45.564000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
沒關係，我問一個更大的問題，按照公務人員執行職務安全及衛生防護辦法第五條的規定，各機關應該組成安全及衛生防護委員會，規定「應」組成；第四條是規定主管機關「得」聘請各機關代表等召開諮詢會，諮詢會是「得」成立，但是安全及衛生防護委員會是「應」成立，請問蘇人事長，現在是不是全國每一個機關都已經依照這個安衛辦法的第五條成立了防護委員會？ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.823 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-03-25T09:52:49.518000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-03-25T09:52:54.984000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
跟委員報告，保訓會每一年都會去調查，根據它現在給我們的資料，全部都有成立了。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.735 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-03-25T09:52:55.585000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-03-25T09:52:56.706000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
全部都成立了嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-03-25T09:52:56.706000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-03-25T09:52:57.967000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
都成立了，應成立的就一定要成立。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.429 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-03-25T09:52:58.108000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:00.410000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
中央各部會跟地方機關都有嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.769 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:00.631000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:01.972000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
應成立的就一定要成立。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:02.853000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:04.615000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
你拿到的資料跟我拿到的不一樣。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:05.376000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:06.157000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
這是保訓會給我們的。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.556 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:07.982000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:15.788000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
全國中央各部會跟地方機關都已經設立了諮詢會跟防護委員會嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:17.529000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:18.330000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
人總自己…… |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:19.330000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:20.491000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
應成立的都有成立了。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:20.491000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:21.852000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
應成立的都有成立了？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:21.852000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:28.217000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
因為這是法令規定的，而且保訓會都有去調查。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:28.917000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:34.141000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
根據我向保訓會拿到的資料沒有全部成立，為什麼保訓會給你們的資料是寫全部都已經成立了？ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.775 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:35.557000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:40.298000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
我們會後再補充一些資料給委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:43.059000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-03-25T09:53:49.600000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
你現在說全部都成立了，你回去了解看看，我從保訓會拿到的資料是沒有全部成立。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-03-25T09:53:51.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-03-25T09:54:02.763000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
而且現在對於未依規定設立長期運作機關沒有什麼追蹤機制，也沒有什麼改進的期限，這些都沒有，這部分請人事行政總處要掌握，好不好？好。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.81 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-03-25T09:54:07.006000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-03-25T09:54:12.848000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
關於職場霸凌這部分，你會後要掌握，以我的了解，應該沒有全部成立。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-03-25T09:54:14.488000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-03-25T09:54:35.524000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
接下來是另外一個我也很關心的重要問題，人事行政總處在去年曾經發過一個新聞稿，是有關於公務人員到中國的規範，在這個規定公務人員到中國的規範裡面，人事行政總處有什麼樣的職責？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-03-25T09:54:35.524000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-03-25T09:54:37.507000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
負責哪些部分？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-03-25T09:54:39.129000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-03-25T09:54:44.934000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
關於管制公務人員到中國的規定裡面，人事行政總處扮演什麼樣的角色？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-03-25T09:54:45.174000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-03-25T09:55:09.297000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
我們是配合陸委會通告全國的人事主管機關，按照陸委會給我們的指令，如果到大陸、澳門或香港，無論是進入或過境都一定要登錄，也要事先申請核准，11職等以上還要經移民署許可。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.851 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-03-25T09:55:11.099000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-03-25T09:55:20.449000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
關於這個問題有很多不同的權責機關，陸委會有權責，內政部也有，法務部也有，人事行政總處也是一個重要的權責單位。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.878 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-03-25T09:55:26.910000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-03-25T09:55:35.554000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
去年5月21號監察院有一個近10年違法赴中公務人員的調查報告，人事長有沒有看過這個報告？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.811 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-03-25T09:55:35.554000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-03-25T09:55:36.554000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
我們已經有回復了。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.25 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-03-25T09:55:35.734000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-03-25T09:55:35.954000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
你們有回復，你有沒有看過？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.545 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-03-25T09:55:36.234000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-03-25T09:56:10.148000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
這個報告統計了近10年違規前往中國的事例，高階文官有55人，基層文官有263人，加起來是318人，而且在這個調查報告裡面直接指出這是有統計的部分，事實上應該還有其他的黑數。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.843 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-03-25T09:56:14.669000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-03-25T09:56:21.150000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
監察院在這個糾正文裡面就直接說有黑數，除了這318人以外，另外還有黑數。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.967 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-03-25T09:56:22.980000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-03-25T09:56:53.146000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
這個報告也指出在赴中管理權責機關的分工裡面，人事行政總處轄管各機關人事人員辦理公務員赴中國的法規宣導，還有申請到中國的審核也是由人事行政總處負責，報送移民署的公務人員赴陸許可線上申請系統也是人事行政總處審查的。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.713 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-03-25T09:56:53.446000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-03-25T09:56:55.147000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
審核應該是移民署…… |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.375 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-03-25T09:56:59.687000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-03-25T09:57:03.771000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
有關違法、違規赴中國案件的行政懲處也是由人事行政總處來做，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.733 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-03-25T09:57:03.811000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-03-25T09:57:03.811000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
懲處是我們做。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.333 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-03-25T09:57:03.811000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-03-25T09:57:04.712000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
懲處是你們要做，好，我現在就針對懲處，至於我剛才說的黑數，我們就先不討論。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.781 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-03-25T09:57:04.712000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-03-25T09:57:35.561000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
我們光講監察院查出來的318人，我對這318人的懲處有列了一個表，就是懲處的結果到底是怎麼樣，裡面有記大過1次的，不過很少人是記大過1次，記過2次的人也少。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-03-25T09:57:40.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-03-25T09:57:58.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
有3個人是記大過1次；有5個人是記過2次；有11個人是記過1次；還有人是申誡2次；申誡1次的人最多；再來是履歷存記，履歷存記已經幾乎是最輕的處分了。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.621 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-03-25T09:57:59.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-03-25T09:58:08.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
其實除了履歷存記以外，你們還有很多只是口頭警告而已，有很多人違規赴中，最後你們的懲處就是口頭警告，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.896 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-03-25T09:58:08.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-03-25T09:58:09.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
這是之前，我們在今年7月1日以後就是照新的規定走。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.048 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-03-25T09:58:09.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-03-25T09:58:10.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
新的規定是怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-03-25T09:58:08.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-03-25T09:58:08.410000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
你所說的新規定是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-03-25T09:58:08.410000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-03-25T09:58:21.477500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
第一次是記過1次；第二次是記過2次；第三次就是記大過1次。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.043 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-03-25T09:58:21.477500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-03-25T09:58:34.545000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
從今年什麼時候開始？ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.222 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-03-25T09:58:34.545000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-03-25T09:58:38.066000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
從今年7月1日。今年？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-03-25T09:58:39.326000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-03-25T09:58:41.826000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
你們要等到今年7月才要開始？ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-03-25T09:58:41.966000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-03-25T09:58:43.307000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
因為有那個新的規定，我們就照新的規定走，我們會加強宣導，而且我們會課責人事人員要去管好赴陸…… |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.69 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-03-25T09:58:54.196000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-03-25T09:59:19.011000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
好，你們7月1號要統一這個懲處標準，這樣很好，這就是我今天的訴求，我就認為你們應該要統一懲處標準，現在的懲處標準太不一致了，有的機關是記過，有的是申誡，有的是履歷存記，有的甚至只有口頭警告，這樣不只是輕重不一，同樣一個人數次違規，他去過好幾趟，到底是一罰還是累罰？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.897 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-03-25T09:59:19.151000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-03-25T09:59:29.796000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
各個機關的處理也都不一樣，各個機關的處理沒有一個統一標準，最後的結果就是造成你們懲處的威信蕩然無存。 |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.872 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-03-25T09:59:31.438000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-03-25T09:59:36.701000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
關於今年7月1號之後的規定，請你們送一份資料給我的辦公室，好不好？好。 |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.793 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
沈委員發惠 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-03-25T09:59:37.162000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-03-25T09:59:49.131000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
我就是希望懲處規定能夠統一，管制不讓公務人員違規赴中國是人事行政總處最重要的職責，以上。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.61 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
蘇人事長俊榮 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-03-25T09:59:49.631000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-03-25T09:59:51.059571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
好，謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.2 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-03-25T09:59:51.359571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-03-25T09:59:55.645286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
謝謝沈發惠委員的質詢，人事長請回。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-03-25T09:59:55.945286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-03-25T09:59:59.088143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
下一位請張雅琳委員質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0 |