| IVOD_ID |
167837 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167837 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-20-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-25T09:38:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-25T09:49:39+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/755992caaad3baae87734111984dd0145b6789160e7ad0a4fd4d311afd6111d3b2462f6caa9091c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
郭國文 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:38:05 - 09:49:39 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理(含各轉投資事業機構公股代表之董、監事)列席業務報告，並備質詢。
【3月25日及26日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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委員好部長好那個之前呢這個新聞媒體曝光延長小店家使用電子智慧到117年年底這個其實是沒有爭議但爭議的部分呢是這個魔鬼藏在細節裡你們在這個當中呢又把這個89年以來的這個20萬以上的小吃店全數這個開發票的這個部分呢予以刪除的部分這個引起社會的恐慌跟爭議第一個呢就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
50.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
李當你現在的方式是用勸輔導的方式來進行結果你突然之間就要把他扼殺掉引起諸多恐慌那後來你們講說這七萬多家單位大概五千三百家會影響不大其實這個還是會產生這個所謂的連鎖效應陸埔長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
71.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我真的奉勸你真的不要用這種偷雞摸狗的方式你要光明正大地手段嘛現在光明正大手段是用輔導的方式啊那你突然之間會造成恐慌之外一來這麼特殊的小吃店本來當初你們會有這個89年的理由就有它的特殊性嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
74.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
你應該考慮一下把這個所謂廢除的部分恢復到現狀還是用輔導的方式有沒有可能 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
91.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
103.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我想我們再一次的說明第一個對於這個大眾的消費飲食店這樣的有什麼湯湯水水的店那20他的每個月的平均的銷售在20萬以下仍然是不需要開發價會銷售1%來計算這個部分並沒有改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
107.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
134.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
是但是20萬以上的啊20萬元以上的部分呢我們為了輔導然後也希望導入行動支付以及配合衛福部裡面就是說但是你要輔導你剛剛說要輔導就是要輔導而不是一直命令就把它廢除掉嘛沒有沒有是輔導他們然後在這一段時間三年裡面我們希望朝向這樣的方式做到118年以後就要重新全部強制一定要開了到時候我們在屆期之前會再看執行的一些情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
135.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
141.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以還有可能收回的空間嘛會不會斷然處理嘛會斷然處理部長你今天在委員會提的你要記得清楚喔 不會斷然處理不然一年之後我們再檢討一下一年之後我們回到這個機制的評估一下可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
152.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
172.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
大概117年12月才借滿啊117年大家借滿的時候 機率不會那麼久大家每天都擔心要死啊 對不對好的 是是不是可以一年之後嘛 好不好一年之後我們再來做這個我們來處理一下 面對這個問題嘛分享這個部分也謝謝董事長都恢復到現狀的可能性 好不好是 好 謝謝董事長我們再繼續說最後一個部分 那個小規模的營業人的部分你剛剛提到20萬以下不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
186.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你記不記得我們最近有提到一個免稅額的部分的調整對店家免稅額就是這10萬從以前的8萬的免稅額調到10萬嘛就經過18年嘛對不對營業稅的起徵點對就是有徵額嘛從8到10嘛對這經過18年的這個調2萬就是等於調了25%嘛一樣的道理小規模營業人的部分20萬免開發票經過40年 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
200.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
224.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
連動都沒有動如果依照這個比例的話它最起碼要調到25啦那如果依照年限的話就要更高啦所以我跟部長提醒一下你這個打開這個潘朵拉盒子大家都一起討論這個問題啦我本席就在慎重要求你這個你要好好檢討一下啦不然本席就要提案啦那然後這個一個18年的可以調為什麼40年沒有動沒有道理嘛你要不要講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
246.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對於這個民眾消費收取發票其實已經民眾都已經相當的一個習慣了那這個部分另外發票的部分事實上第一個總是有一些特殊性嘛也可以讓他們對講那這個部分我覺得要做綜合一個考量二十萬這個部分我們是希望慢慢朝向開發票 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
262.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
就是說20萬以下免開發票20萬以上我們導入行動支付跟多元的方式來做計帳的話還沒有到那個階段的時候你要依照現狀來處理不然你的8萬就不會變10萬了不是嗎這個本協會另外提案我只是慎重提醒你要面對這個問題另外一個部分部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
267.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
274.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那個最近大家在媒體討論最多的當然是這一個那個我們跳過去國票金那個國票金的問題喔國票金的問題喔從8%到22% |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
281.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
306.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個每一趴的成本啊 平均估計起來大概是六億啦那大概少說相關的公股的銀行或所屬的這個公益事業單位至少砸了六十幾億以上下去啦砸了六十幾億當中當然你還可以去做一些合縱連橫你的影響力可能可以擴大上一次本席就有就教於您的部分你就最主要讓他能夠穩健經營嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
309.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
338.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那未來的發展型態是就地健全化或者將來跟公股組一個另一種新的一個所謂的清空當初你有提到這一個部分但是你說沒有預測那現在問題來了現在外界在質疑的是第一點到底公股介入搬了這麼多屬於納稅人的錢你是要採取公股主導還是要配合特定的民股請你回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
339.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
362.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
跟委員報告沒有配合特定的民股這是確定的第二個就是股東會是在5月29號我剛剛講過我都聽過了就不用再回答了我們會根據實力原則移民跟處理好你剛剛也回答了所謂的實力原則嘛對然後也沒有配合特定的如果實力原則的話那我就說啦一般的民股如果10%他現在董事會變成從13席變成15席如果10%的話挺多就是1.5席不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
391.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那為什麼說有一些人已經分到三席了那另一邊也已經分到三席了如果三個民股10%都可以分到三席有三股民股分到三席的話那就不是占掉九席了嗎那公股剩六席這有道理嗎所以說你說依照比例原則是一個嘛所以說你現在不會配合所謂的特定民股的話那是不是意味著公股會主導嘛不然你介入幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
417.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你大費周章幹嘛你就是因為這一個最小的金控銀行金控集團不斷的發生事端然後每每浮上版面造成社會的這種負面的印象所以公股才要藉由公股的力量想要進入整頓嘛不是嗎你當初就這樣回答本席的啊如果要這樣子的話那你當然要公股主導不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
441.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我想對於委員這個方向我們是了解然後也會基於這個投資效率最大化會朝公股主導那公股主導之後呢公股主導之後就是後面的部分是不是回到公司治理嘛要回到公司治理如果要回到公司治理的話那所謂的組織編制的模式就要回到健全化不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
469.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
不會有所謂的董事長副董事長然後善權然後把持公司營運的方向該增資的時候不增資不會有這種現象產生嗎要把公司治理要導入正軌所以說現在那我們就對外澄清真的財政部會介入這一次國票金的案件當中只有幾個原則第一個公股主導第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
494.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個所謂的公私治理符合公私治理就這兩個原則嘛對不對部長我想對於所謂的我們掌握的一個實力當然我們會在股東會的改選的時候會做最大的一個優勢然後來做一個實力原則來展現那如果我們能夠我們取得主導權我們當然要讓公私治理走入正軌跟穩健經營 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
495.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
對啊 其實你講的內容跟我的話語不一樣但是原則上是相同啦就是公股主導然後朝向公司治理進行啦我想這個部分的態度才是整個政府介入一個正當的理由啦否則你如果配合特定的民股啊毫無正當性可言啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
515.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
接下來本席要跟你探討一下這個有關於長照基金跟住宅基金的部分因為你要知道台灣的長照基金從馬政府時代的1.0到2.0到現在3.0從早期的用保險的方式到現在用社會福利的方式金額已經高達1153億 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
537.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那之所以他會有這麼多錢的話就來自於房地合一稅 遺產稅 贈餘稅 菸酒稅還有菸品健康福利捐等等的指定財源但是這些指定財源當中有一個真的很不合理就是說呢 你明明看到廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
554.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
578.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
基金收入有90%是來自指定稅源可是我們住宅基金當然部分只要靠撥補補助只有一百億的部分是來自於房地合一稅這個部分本期當初就從當初100%的房地合一稅全部給長照經過我們最近的一個討論對話之後現階段的話住宅的分費到給社會住宅已經變成20%了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
580.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
604.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
但是以照目前你們房地合一稅的目標來說今年度的話是1163億其實你如果把比例上做一個調整分配的話我現在要說長照相對的國家資源的配置很多可是社會住宅的部分卻嗷嗷待哺顯然不過甚至會因此而重新檢討這個社會住宅的政策就是因為錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
606.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
625.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那現在呢 這種情況下部長 本席要跟你提醒了應該再把這個比喻做個調整你只要到50%的部分你就有500多億可以撥到這個住宅基金你就可以解決目前當前很重要政府政策的社會政策的財源問題部長 有沒有慎重考慮一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
626.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
643.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
跟委員報告房地合一稅收來以後呢要按照財化法的規定分配到地方政府的部分先分配出去剩下的餘額再根據他的分配辦法然後來行政院決定是要怎麼樣的分配那目前來說如同委員說在114年的時候我們20%到住宅基金80%分配到長照基金那在這一次要不要再做調整因為這個分配辦法裡面他只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
653.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
658.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他只有講兩項而已啦沒有講比例嘛權利就在於你啦他必然是房地合一稅他用在住宅才比較合理嘛利民失義啊財政部會國庫署會商組總還有衛福部跟內政部會討論以後我們再重新討論一下好不好提高一下嘛一半一半嘛 這算很公平嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
677.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
677.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
謝謝郭委員下一位請李燕秀委員質詢 |