| IVOD_ID |
167721 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167721 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-19T11:32:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-19T11:46:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:41 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ddc1636ead3b8e5959de7bc82b1709ec31a176eedb5d66a3d6f5a3a5be601f8a03c53ec228b776055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:32:51 - 11:46:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.705 |
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0.927 |
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錢林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
9.494 |
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36.502 |
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我們外交部在部長擔任部長以後不管是綜合外交或者是整體國立的呈現過去這兩年多來確實有一些新的面貌而且台灣在國際舞台被看見的風貌越來越多元越來越豐富不像以往都透過被打壓或者透過災難或者透過幫忙被看見這一點本席在這邊給我們外交部部長跟所有同仁很高的肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
37.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
64.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
真實的戰場其實是在外交其他的海巡警政國防是面對威脅但是每一天在面對這樣的挑戰其實外交部駐外人員都相當辛苦那我們也曾經討論過駐外人員相關的防捕、叫捕各種那一塊我們已經討論一段時間我今天就不再著重在這一塊我先請教一個問題賴總統就職到現在邁向第三年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.167 |
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86.18 |
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出訪一次,目前有一次出訪到南泰,那今年第三年有沒有出訪的計畫?有,我們有接到邀請,但是出訪除了國事訪問,也有時候會配合對方國家,有重大的典禮。目前有哪幾國邀請我們? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
95.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
斯瓦帝尼最近有邀請台灣 因為他們有重大的節慶應該是死亡奔機40年 以及他們58歲的生日 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
108.404 |
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123.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以斯瓦帝你有邀請 還有沒有其他的地方其他當然一般來講我們有一些比如說有新政府產生的國家或是因為他有來訪我們也是有要回訪 這些也都在評估的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
124.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
148.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以今年確實有受邀也在評估出訪的可能性那我們元首外交其實對台灣很重要我們特別困難所以透過元首外交有的是鞏固邦誼有的是做外交突破那有的是希望被看見那你估計今年我們元首外交的頻率會一次兩次三次或者不盡限於一次能回答就回答了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
149.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
169.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們一般來講會朝兩次來做規劃當然也會因應情勢的發展來做調整所以我們樂見也希望今年的不管是國事出訪或元首外交能夠有好的消息接下來我們要看一些面對的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
170.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
198.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
在立陶宛的部分我們原來期待的是一個正骨牌效應也就是當時立陶宛設立台灣代表處那我們希望聯動不管是這個愛沙尼亞啦或者捷克啦其他國家能夠仿效讓台灣代表處能夠陸續成立那確實當時中國在歐洲尤其中東歐本來是他們有幾家幾那個很強勢的外交力量在那個狀態下 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
213.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
加上COVID-19的期間所以中國在這個Central Europe它確實是降下來了那現在目前我們觀察到的現象是立陶宛的總理盧錦尼涅呢他 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
240.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
認為設置台灣代表處是一個巨大錯誤那他們的前任總理呢也向中國提案要恢復中國跟立陶宛相關的互動跟關係那這是一個警訊因為這警訊除了我們原來期待的正骨牌效應沒有發生我擔心的是逆骨牌效應也就是設立台灣代表處被定義為一個巨大的錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
242.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
263.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那接下來對我們在歐洲的外交工作不管是多瑙河沿岸九國啦或者其他國家要開展往前更進一步讓台灣被看見讓台灣被證明可能會遇到更大的困難我先請問立陶宛發生了什麼事情他會做出這樣的表述然後對於我們住處的更名目前立陶宛的態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
264.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
285.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
報告委員 雖然他們總理曾經有這樣的發言不過後來也有修正然後在他們總統老薩達出面召開國安會議之後也定了調有跟台灣的關係怎麼樣持續的來發展所以說他們要跟中國的關係那個也不是操之在立陶宛要看中國到底怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
285.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
305.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以我覺得經過這樣的一個總統召集的國安會議之後啊我們也很清楚他們也是很肯定跟台灣的這個我們的這個社畜的關係就外交部的評估我們目前跟立陶宛的狀態包含住處的名稱編制是不會有影響不會有改變OK那 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
306.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
333.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
骨牌效應的部分因為2758號決議文事實上是對台灣非常重要的一個法律跟國際事件當中國濫用扭曲解釋2758號決議文作為一中原則或一中政策的基礎對外宣稱代表台灣2300萬人那個虛幻的幻影讓台灣參加不管是聯合國或相關的國際組織遭受阻礙我們跟各國建立正常的邦交關係呢也因為這樣子台灣已經被代表的假象 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
335.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
362.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
傷害了台灣幾十年那從澳洲開始到歐盟許多國家甚至於連義大利的外委會參議院的外委會到美國到加拿大主流的民主國家都說2758號決議文無關台灣這是一個在法國際法理上破除所謂的中國代表台灣一中原則一中政策非常重要的法律戰的一個我認為是一個勝利那這也是外交部長期很努力美國國務院也幫了很多的忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
364.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
386.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
在2758號決議文加上立陶宛的效應,原來我們期待是歐洲像愛沙尼亞、埃斯多尼亞也許我們可以設置一個台灣代表處或其他住處做一個證明目前愛沙尼亞的設處其實講了很久很久包含雙邊的合作互訪也相當多現在的諮商的階段進到哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
387.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
405.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
包括我們在他通過國會賦予的法源已經在進行施行細則那這施行細則會針對當然因為他是把台灣放在整個法案裡面就是某一類那我們實質上當然在周邊國家也都有一些涉處 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
406.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
429.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們的外交的這個地位跟特權還有豁免等這個都有在溝通中可是因為那個施行細則要完成我們才能夠正式的來提出這個方案這個Estonia他們的是用一個法律去框架不同的外交關係的定義所以設出那個法源細節出來就可以處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
429.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
445.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
住處名稱呢住處名稱當然也都會交換意見在這個階段目前傾向是台北經貿或者是台灣因為對方在通過國會這個法案以及他們內閣的這個決定的時候其實他們是用台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
446.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
460.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他是用台北 是所以目前是往台北辦事處做他們先前的這個就是用的希望如果台灣有設處是以台北那我們外交部的態度呢跟工作的方向呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
461.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
476.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們基本上就是建立實質的外交關係那有外交的這種代表性這是我們的目標那每一個國家也都會因應他的情況我想這個是就是不是單一的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
479.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
505.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
外交部長在這邊不適合把我們底牌縮死啦但我們還是期待讓台灣2300萬人像我台南我就不是被台北代表的啊就是說我們還是希望能夠被看見被代表的名稱我們希望我們各位同仁繼續努力啦但是底牌當然實質的台灣的困難我們都知道困難的來源我們也知道所以往對的方向努力不代表輕鬆啦所以請你們繼續加油因為我移到巴拉圭 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
506.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
531.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
最近巴拉圭的用那個超級豪華的旅程邀請了巴拉圭的國會議員去中國訪問那確實也產生一些效應他們回巴拉圭之後這是我們在拉美唯一的邦交國在南美唯一的邦交國他也表達說建議要調整對台的相關關係那我們都曉得中國習慣性或者中國會把經貿當外交武器 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
532.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
557.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
中國也會把貪腐當作外交的機會跟外交的工具這是中國的習慣有時候中國答應要買你的白蝦像洪都拉斯跳票沒關係洪都拉斯的人民付出代價沒關係但是他掌握key man就好了那key man用什麼方式來掌握眾說紛雲所以有關巴拉圭的部分我們外交部目前評估狀態是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
560.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
587.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
因為我們的前駐巴拉圭大使現在是拉美師長我待會請他簡單補充師長剛從那邊回來對對對中共對巴拉圭要挖我們牆角是不擇手段的他動用的資源那個是非常可怕可是為什麼今天台巴關係還是穩定啊包括貝尼亞總統包括他們國會因為他們要跟台灣合作是看到台灣發展模式所以在巴拉圭就是台灣模式對中國模式在拉美的一個對決 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
600.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以最近包括宏都拉斯他當然旁邊有瓜地馬拉跟貝里斯就是林邦所以我們跟對方比的不是比金錢或比霸權而我們比的是台灣的發展經驗的模式所以巴拉圭 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
605.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
620.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們現在做到榮邦計畫包括八個旗艦包括他的醫院有資訊系統智慧醫院是全拉美最好的我們在巴拉圭榮邦計畫坦白講做得相當不錯我有去拜訪那個Gustavo他現在是巴拉圭駐美國的大使 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
620.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
631.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
江啟臣副院長也有組團距跨黨派所以這個巴拉圭本身榮邦計畫是做得還不錯那中國挖我們牆角所以你們現在目前評估巴拉圭狀態還可以那他們的總統佩妮娜邁總統訪問的邀請還持續中嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
638.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
651.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
當然我們也邀請他啦他來我相對看起來比較簡單啦那我們總統出訪比較起來要考慮比較多啦所以巴拉圭的邀請還存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
653.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
671.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
對,我們市長一直點頭嘛,黑村你團的嘛來來,讓我講講大使大使來那時候邀請的時候你還是大使嘛是,巴拉圭的貝納總統從上台以後就一直不斷的在公開或私下的場合表達希望賴總統有時間有機會能夠去訪問今年會安排嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
674.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
697.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你這樣的笑容很燦爛我們隨時在準備啦但是實際是適當的時候那個有些要讓府方來宣布好啦謝謝我真的懂了啦我最後兩個問題第一個是史瓦帝尼的基礎建設因為他也跟非洲的開發銀行申請當然史瓦帝尼跟我們非常友好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
698.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
723.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那斯瓦帝尼還是會跟非洲銀行申請一些貸款、基建的計畫現在他的那個培克尼大壩的計畫申請到42億台幣的基建的融資結果飆到的是中國的公司用低價切到了因為我剛才還是講那句話中國會把經貿當外交工具、武器中國會把貪腐當作外交機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
724.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
740.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
就你們判斷斯瓦帝尼跟這一個培克尼大壩對我們有沒有什麼值得擔憂或關注的地方我是非常關注啦因為我這個這個當然是他們低價競標我關注就是說這個大壩有沒有發電 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
741.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
756.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
如果發電後續的營運可能中共就會進來那還好這個大壩是純粹是一個水壩它沒有發電再來就是我們現在在我們的龍幫計畫已經進入這個石瓦地你就暫備儲油槽 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
757.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
778.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那個計畫更大所以我們也讓台灣的包括OIDC啦 OECC啦還有包括這個台灣世襲國會都進去所以其實也許那個BAR弄起來我們台灣來幫他弄發電也是一個方式啦後續我們都可以去接手但是他們的品質如果不好我們不敢接因為他們的BAR有時候會破洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
779.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
804.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
大波動是會垮掉的,那個...還沒有放啊,要賠償啊,包括要再...要挖多啦,對那個...那個會壞東西,我們不要問啦,但我最後提醒一句話目前南韓的部分,我們是採取不升級對應的方式處理,這是好的但我提醒外交部,還是要有些實質的處理方式因為韓國這種做法非常不禮貌那當然有網友說應該叫他南朝鮮,但我們未必要做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
805.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
819.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
跟他們一樣這樣失格的事情但是我要提醒說對韓國來講我們應該還有一些實質的工具但是採取外交不升高衝突的方式展現國格我個人是給予支持但這個事情應該要盡快有一個處理方向謝謝 |