| IVOD_ID |
16772 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16772 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-36,15-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第3次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第3次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-19T08:30:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-19T12:19:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:48:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc881a30a5cb1aad779e2506b9d78cd73c8b19dddded0b194fc704ef323698e22f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第3次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查（一）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人、（二）台灣民眾黨黨團、（三）委員張智倫等17人、（四）委員葉元之等21人及（五）委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部組織法第五條條文修正草案」案。
二、併案審查（一）台灣民眾黨黨團、（二）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人、（三）國民黨黨團、（四）委員張智倫等17人、（五）委員葉元之等21人及（六）委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部新住民發展署組織法草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:31 - 12:19:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1778.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1799.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
報告聯席會初席委員17人移組法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第三會期司法及法制內政委員會第二次聯席會議議事錄時間中華民國124年5月28日星期三上午九時二分至十時十五分地點本院紅樓302會議室 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1801.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1814.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
出席委員黃婕委員等二十四人列席委員鄭正前委員等八人請教委員黃建斌委員一人列席官員海洋委員會主任委員管碧玲等人主席莊昭及委員瑞雄報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1817.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1833.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
繼續編案審查行政院海警審議國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例草案案等16案決議一進行逐條審查名稱第一張章名第一條第二條第四條第五條第二張章名第六條至第十九條第21條第三張章名第22條至第24條第四張章名第25條至第32條第五張章名第33條至第35條 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1840.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1867.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
均照行政院提案通過第三條 照委員吳思耀等16人提案通過修正第20條 修正文字如意失錄委員許以珍等17人提案第三條不予採納通過附帶決議一項本案審查完略擬拒審討報告提請院會公決不需交由黨團協商院會討論時由莊召集委員瑞雄出席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語授權主席及議事人員整理宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1883.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1912.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
請問各位就上次的會議事錄有無錯或遺漏上一次聯席會的議事錄沒有的話議事錄確定我們接著介紹到常委員張志倫委員麥一貞委員羅美玲委員我想要看過去怎麼只有兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1917.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1941.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
內政部吳唐安常次移民署林宏恩署長人事行政總處人事長蘇俊榮常務副人事長沈德蘭我們補充介紹王一川委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1944.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1965.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
其餘未介紹的列席代表請參與名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄那本次議程討論事項兩案分別排定一 殯案審查內政部組織法第五條條文修正草案二 殯案審查內政部新住民發展署組織法草案那我們現在開始進行提案說明及報告首先我們請第一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1972.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1981.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們請第一位麥玉珍委員進行提案說明麥玉珍委員是代表台灣民眾黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1987.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2013.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
謝謝主席各位親愛的家人大家早安今天特別感謝我們吳宗森主席能夠與內政委員會聯席排審這兩部對保障新住民的權益至關重要的法案也就是內政部組織法修正草案以及內政部新住民發展署組織法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2013.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2031.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
新住民基本法在台灣民眾黨全力堅持與推動下在113年7月16日已經三讀通過並經總統公布明確規定內政部應成立新住民發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2032.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2046.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
统筹并主管所有新住民相关业务因此台湾民众党提出内政部组织法第五条条文修正草案删除移民署有关新住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2048.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2063.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
業務至職長新增新住民發展署及其業務規定同時有鑑於新住民人數已成為台灣第四大族群且新住民事務具有 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2064.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2087.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
其獨特族群性質與高度的重要性也因為配合新住民發展署的成立全面並有效的保障新住民交易就業醫療等方面的權利台灣民眾黨同步提出內政部新住民發展署組織法草案我們期望由 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2088.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2100.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
藉由發展署組織法通過從制度層面健全社會發展推動多元文化促進族群融合避免 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2102.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2129.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
種族文化差異而產生歧視及刻板偏見並提供新住民族群語言訓練文化適應輔導就業等知識並在職長上定包含新住民國家特種考試規劃及源而通譯制度與經濟文化發展執行與督導唯有如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2130.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2156.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
方能有效幫助新住民族群生根台灣與社會共榮共榮邁向更堅強包容多元文化社會的台灣謝謝大家 請大家多多支持好 謝謝 我們補充那個說明一下那個發言時間 依照本委員會是3分鐘我們的慣例好 那我們下一位請提案人羅委員美玲進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2168.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2192.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
謝謝主席大家早安有近與新住民在台人口數呢逐年地在增加那截到目前為止呢已超過了六十萬人涵蓋了跨國婚姻規劃國籍者長期拘留外籍人士外籍專業人才及留台工作的僑外生等多元的族群已經成為我國社會組成中不可忽視的重要的一環那為了保障其在台的生活的權益並促進融入本國的這個社會本席自上任以來致力推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2197.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2211.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個制定新住民權益保障專法那立法院呢也在2024年的7月16號三讀通過新住民基本法完成新住民權益專法重要立法的里程碑那依該法第四條明定內政部應設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關以統籌規劃研究諮詢協調推動促進新住民就學就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2220.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2234.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
賠利關懷協助及多元服務之相關事宜那為了落實相關的法令本席提出新住民發展署組織法草案及內政部組織法第五條修正草案期望以設置長設型的中央專責機關處理新住民事務 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2237.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2241.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
兼顧政策統籌跟個別的服務並強化語言通譯、社會福利、社會參與、媒體禁用及文化推進等功能北溪希望委員跟黨團版本之間能夠達到高度的共識唯對少數條文內容還是要進一步協商的空間例如部分的版本將新住民參與國家考試的事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2262.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2268.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
列為新設專責機關之執掌然而依台灣現行的體制國家考試公務人員的這個考選權序保障局這個退服均由考試院專責辦理因此呢這樣的修法內容恐怕非內政部所屬機關的全責範圍本席期盼今天大家不分黨派能一起理性討論凝聚出最共識的這個版本那最後呢本席衷心的想表達新住民是在台落地生根 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2293.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2315.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
參與台灣並認同台灣的重要社會成員設置新住民發展署不僅可強化政府對新住民政策之統籌推動更有助提升國家整體社會融合跟國際的形象那實為我國面對長期人口結構的轉變跟多元社會的發展趨勢之必要作為那本席的提案呢希望各位委員能夠支持 以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2317.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2324.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好謝謝那我們下一位請張志倫委員那張志倫進行提案說明並且一併代表國民黨黨團說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2332.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2352.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主席各位同仁各位官員大家早本期代表國民黨黨團以及我個人的修正草案進行提案說明113年7月16號立法院通過了新住民基本法三讀通過這是一項具有重要意義的立法不僅是象徵我們對新住民權益的重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2352.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2370.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
更實質賦予政府具體的作為以及責任其中第四條就明白的指出內政部應設立一個專責的機構中央三級的機構就是新住民發展署來統籌新住民的相關政策以及服務的事宜為了落實這項法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2372.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2400.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
本席提出兩個法案分別是內政部組織法第五條修正草案以及內政部新住民發展署組織草案首先內政部組織法修正草案裡本席提議在內政部之下正式設立新住民發展署作為三級機關負責全國新住民政策之規劃推動執行以及協調其次在內政部新住民發展署組織草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2401.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2423.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
法草案中提出具体的法治架构包含设立的目的执掌的范围以及组织编制等等草案明定发展组的设立为了保障新住民的基本权益健全社会发展推广多元文化同时也要减少歧视与偏见这不是行政机关的调整更是社会价值的体现 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2424.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2443.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
在職長方面包含政策及法制的規劃語言發展同意制度教學與就業支持文化推展國際交流法律服務健康促進及弱勢新住民的協調等以及協助等也特別規定在有業務需要時可派駐外 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2445.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2458.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
境外人士來辦事在組織編制上設署長一人列檢任13職等等設副組長兩人檢任12職等一定設主任秘書一人列11職等 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2460.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2483.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
面對複雜多元的新住民失誤本席希望藉由這些條文的設計讓新住民發展署具備足夠的專業與行政量能最後各位委員同仁我們有來自世界各地的新住民朋友們他們是我們的鄰居也是我們的家人也是這塊台灣這塊土地重要的一份子 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2484.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2508.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
懇請大家支持這兩個草案讓我們一起來落實新住民基本法建立一個更公平更友善的新住民政策體系謝謝大家好 謝謝張委員接著我們請機關代表報告每位發言時間三分鐘我們先請內政部長賜報告下一位請任市長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2514.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2529.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主席 各位委員今天貴連席會議也審查我們本部組織法第五條條文修正草案及所屬新住民發展署組織草案本能奉邀列席報告並被質詢請就新住民事務中央三級行政機關的籌備進度來做個說明一 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2534.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2554.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
依照大院三讀通過的新住民基本法的第四條本部應設置新住民事務中央三級行政機關為立新設機關的事宜我們內政部自去年8月12號公布後就成立我們新住民發展署的籌備作業小組那也積極定期召開我們的會議及籌辦相關的工作事宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2557.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2561.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
籌備小組我們總共是有六個工作分組那我們包括業務、組織、規劃組、原額設置及權益保障組、預決算組 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2566.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2587.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
法制作業組及財產聽設及檔案移交組資訊建設及調整組那以上的部分都有在去年8月12號公布後我們就由移民署每兩週召開一次的分組的工作會議而每一到兩個月由我們內政部來召開一次的籌備小組那是由我來擔任整個召集人 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2588.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2615.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那籌辦小組目前各工作分組都依照新住民基本法的規定的業務的範疇那我們持續包括跨機關的盤點及確認新機關的應辦理的業務包括組織架構人員配置預算需求法律命令的修正那還有包括資訊系統的建立移轉辦公廳設計硬體的各項事宜那以備我們新機關成立之後的各項籌備工作另外在去年的11月18號我們也由移民署 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2616.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2644.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
警察廣播電台及中央廣播電台來合作我們也製播了新住民新力量的廣播節目來保障落實新住民的一個媒體禁用權新的機關將會統籌我們規劃研究諮詢協調推動及促進新住民包括就學就業賠利關懷協助及多元服務等諸多事宜那我們目前都已經完成了籌辦小組的工作那相關剛剛上述的各項的工作事項都已經在我們未來新 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2645.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2662.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
新機構成立之後的各項籌備來做一個銜接及試用那最後一個報告就是新機關的業務其實他的業務還相當的複雜也涉及到包括公權力的行行政的事務的跨不同目的事業主管機關相關的部分有包括勞動部教育部還有我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2664.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2690.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
文化部等等的還有相關的一個跨機關的一個複雜的作業那相關的籌備作業的我們的業務分工人員的移撥跟法規的研修我們都會照現行的運作規模之外我們會再再花更多的時間來要來積極相關的籌備工作來落實我們新住民各項權益的保障事宜以上報告也請各位委員指教好謝謝那下一位我們請蘇仁市長那蘇仁市長我們先請蘇仁市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2695.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2714.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
主席 各位委員大家好有關貴文輝召開審查內政部組織法第五條條文修正草案及內政部新住民發展組織法草案一樣本總處本要列是深感榮幸請就涉及本總處業務部分提出意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2716.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2730.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
內政部組織法第五條條文修正草案部分有關於內政部下設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關名稱定額新住民發展署本總處尊重內政部的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2731.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2759.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
新住民發展署業務的範圍依新住民基本法第三條的規定該法所定的事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者與各目的事業主管機關辦理為避免新住民發展署執掌與其他目的事業主管機關重疊或前者不明的部分建請內政部釐清內政部新住民發展署組織法草案部分有關第一條第二條 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2761.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2772.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
涉及機關前線執掌同前述內政部主事務法第五條修正草案意見 建請內政部釐清第三第四條有關首長副首長幕僚長的職稱官職等 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2776.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2805.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
岩耳部分 其中副所長的岩耳依中央行政機關組織基準法第十九條第三項的規定三級機關以下得設副所長至多三人經列常任的職務 又現行各機關依其業務量分別設置一至三人不等本總處尊重內政部的一個意見至於只等的部分應涉及官規官制這個是由情緒部來主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2805.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2831.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
第五條有關派員駐外辦事的部分依駐外機構組織通則第四條的規定各機關一起組織法定有派員駐境外辦事的規定者得洽外交部或派員與駐外機構相關內部單位或配屬機構辦理業務並受首屬駐外機構的指揮監督因為試射駐外之必要性及急迫性評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2832.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2846.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這一部分我們會尊重外交部整體的一個評估以上報告敬請各位委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝任市長請問一下提出書面報告機關有沒有需要口頭補充好 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2850.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2867.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
沒有 機關代表報告完畢 相關書面內容請各位參照並列入公報記錄提案說明還有報告機關已經進行完畢 現在開始進行詢答那因為今天喔這聯席會發言的人數比較多 所以我們一例本 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2868.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2887.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
聯席會委員尋答時間為6分鐘非聯席會委員尋答時間為3分鐘均不再延長因為接續我們還要進行法案的審查所以請各位委員能夠掌握今天尋答的時間上午10點30分截止發言登記我們現在請登記第一位的黃國昌委員進行尋答 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2897.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2902.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩有請內政部次長以及我們人事行政總署的人事長兩位好2023年12月18號當時的副總統賴清德與總統候選人的身份在臉書上面發表了對新住民的承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2923.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2935.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
包括了要強化新住民專責的單位要提升他的位階賴總統對新住民的承諾我相信應該還算數 沒有問題吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2938.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2953.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
請對著麥克風講話因為這樣子你的點頭沒有辦法進入立法院公報還算數吧這個行政院 我們就依照總統公布的就依照總統公布的這是賴總統的承諾嘛現在我問賴總統的承諾還算不算數算數嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2958.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2985.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
應該符合規定我說賴總統的承諾算不算數你說應該符合規定總統已經發布施行了好來看一下賴總統的承諾啊在野黨幫他實現了我為什麼說在野黨幫他實現了去年7月16號新住民基本法第4條內政部應設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2987.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3013.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
當初在立法院表決的時候在野黨、台灣民眾黨、中國國民黨的委員支持57票民主進步黨反對49票57比49的表決結果在新住民基本法裡面對於中央三級行政機關我們提供了一個重要基本法未接的法源基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3014.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3041.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
今天我看到有民主進步黨的委員也針對組織法提出他們的修正草案我覺得這是一個好的方向基本法過了以後過了以後也認同這樣一個中央三級機關的立法方向所以也提出了組織法的修正草案非常的好希望今天能夠順利完成委員會的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3043.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3067.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
但我們要追問的事情是說去年7月18號內政部說我們署的緣額已經滿了所以先成立新住民權益保障籌備處目前這個新住民權益保障籌備處的進度如何謝謝委員指教我想那個成立籌備小組的部分是由我先提一下我問的是籌備處籌備處成立了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3070.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3088.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
還沒還沒有成立從去年7月18號說要成立籌備處到現在已經六月了還沒有成立籌備處跟委員報告籌備小組跟籌備處的性質其實是一樣都是為了要未來成立發展署你回去看一下你們自己內政部的報告啦籌備處跟籌備小組一樣嗎現在籌備小組人力有幾個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3094.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3123.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
跟委員報告 我們籌備小組是由我擔任召集人是 那總共有幾個人幾乎是移民署的同仁都有參與全部你全部都把他移到籌備小組裡面去我們籌備小組只是個工作就是為了一個未來的組織是嘛 所以我就問你籌備小組有幾個人嘛有幾個人連員額都沒有不是 平常跟我開會大概都將近15個到20個所以你現在連籌備小組有幾個人的人數都定不下來喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3124.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3152.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
蛤?這樣是有在認真的籌備籌備處嗎?因為我看了你們的報告以後我是充滿困惑啊你們去年11月的時候發了一個聲明現在還在內政部的網站今天你們所提出來的工作報告市長你有沒有把你去年11月的聲明跟你們今天提給我們世化法治委員會的書面報告有沒有比對過?謝謝委員知道 我沒有做過這個比對好 你可以回去比對一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3153.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3178.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
因為我今天看你們的報告讀一讀似曾相識這個東西我讀過我後來回去啊稍微翻了一下我果然讀過你們今天六月提給司法法治委員的報告跟你們去年十一月寫的東西啊幾乎是一模一樣那我非常的驚訝所以我才在問嘛你們在籌備處 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3181.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3204.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
的進度到哪裡有多少人在做這個事有沒有把他當一回事認真啊在做你們說數不夠沒有關係我們雖然是在野黨執政黨的困難我們幫你們處理所以再度由台灣民眾黨黨團提出了中央行政機關組織基準法你們說數的人數滿了 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3206.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3228.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
執政黨不推動修法 沒關係 在野黨幫你們解決問題我們推動修法 三讀通過所以現在 數數目的法規限制也沒了現在提升到七十一個但大家關心的事情是說 進度牛步那為什麼會進度牛步 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3229.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3247.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
一個月就開一次會慢慢開看你要籌備到什麼時候我下一個問題新住民基本法當初我們要給行政院方便我沒想到我們每次給行政院方便行政院都當隨便新住民基本法什麼時候要公告實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3251.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3274.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
跟委員報告我想新住民基本法的施行的部分我們這個已經有報到行政院去了持續研議應該不會啦 我們的整個所以還要多久這個還是要看院理這邊所以還是要看院嘛所以我們的卓榮泰院長是不重視新住民的保障嗎不會啦 我們院長都很支持如果很支持可以拖這麼久什麼時候三讀通過了新住民基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3275.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3289.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
你知道嗎去年七月現在幾月現在是六月一年啊那這個中間我們就是成立籌備小組對 籌備小組緣而不足的籌備小組持續籌備要籌備到什麼時候不知道什麼時候要公告私情不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3300.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3329.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
對於我們的行政院來講 不想做的事能拖就拖 能混就混持續的研議 持續的拖延 持續的籌備這個就是我們的民進黨政府在面對我們新住民權益保障的態度嗎是這樣嗎來 請回答那我想照顧新住民這是我們內政部應該做的工作是 那就做嘛展現具體的行動出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3331.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3356.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
你們現在告訴新住民朋友的是 我們很認真在研議啊研議了快一年啊 持續的研議啊新住民基本法什麼時候要公告執行 也不知道是這樣嗎謝謝委員 我們的籌組業務的 其實業務有超過非常的繁重 我知道所以呢 按照你們的能力業務這麼繁重 還要再籌備多久 再籌備三年夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3358.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3381.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
再籌備三年到二零二八年再讓你開一次競選支票再騙一次票時間夠不夠夠不夠三年夠不夠三年還不夠那我想我這邊會配合行政院的來什麼時候要提出內政部組織法內政部新住民發展署組織法行政院版的草案有要提嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3382.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3410.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
跟委員報告因為新住民事務繁瑣包括文化勞動衛福還有教育所以什麼時候送來也不知道我們會配合整個基本法實行後我們來推特今天我們修法有需要等你們嗎今天可不可以出委員會行政院會不會反對我們尊重委員會尊重委員會非常的好非常的好不要阻擋喔今天在有關於這些組織法的施行日期啊有鑒於新住民基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3411.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3436.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我們相信行政院把施行日期給行政院定沒想到行政院可以混成這個樣子到今天新住民基本法什麼時候要施行都不敢講今天台灣民眾黨黨團最後一條我們會提修正動議施行日期我會直接定下去我不會再給行政院機會了之前給你們機會給你們方便當隨便 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3440.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3466.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
讓新住民的朋友等了多久今天沒有這樣子的待遇了事情日期直接定下去希望到時候行政機關依法行政遵守法律 可以嗎可以嗎我想專中委員會好 謝謝好 謝謝那我們接下來麻煩張志文可以 張志文請張志文委員代理主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3472.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3485.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好 謝謝 下一位我們請吳宗憲召委諮詢謝謝 我們麻煩內政部次長 人事長還有移民署署長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3503.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3523.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
首先我先請教次長我們直接就開明見山的題我想請問一下一個問題就是有關這次租屋補貼的問題我想這個是大概全國人民很重視的一個議題所以我就放到今天也穿插進來請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3525.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3551.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這個去年那個總統他在國慶演講的時候他競選的時候他就已經有講過協助百萬戶租屋加戶計畫還有國慶演講的時候他有提到說實現居住正義擴大對租屋族的照顧那去年也有提到說租金補貼要提升到75萬戶那行政院會通過300億的那個中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3553.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3564.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
中央喔 兩個字 中央那中央會全數補助那怎麼為什麼現在又變了 又變成那個內政部長又說這個要改成地方要負責籌措部分的支出請問次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3565.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3591.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
好 謝謝委員 我想這邊簡單跟委員報告我想租金補貼的部分當然是賴總統的政策那我們目前的話大概已經實際上的租補案件是61萬戶所以目標70萬不變那至於剛剛委員所垂詢的部分就是有關這個租金的一個負擔支出那其實這個在最早的版本裡面其實地方本來就是也要負擔的不是啊 最早版本我不知道我只知道後來總統他講的叫做中央全數給予補助啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3592.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3611.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我只知道你們提出來的叫做中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫你看一下PPT上面的嘛 這個是統籌由中央負責來做撥款所以中央統籌的意思就是中央開支票地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3613.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3642.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
地方付錢 中央請客地方買單這個在當時 我記得在1123年的時候其實就已經有這個的規範了就是說其實地方還是要負擔一定的不是啊 那這樣子等於又在騙人又在大內宣了嘛大內宣說我中央負責全額嘛然後實際要做的時候又說叫地方付那我又請教一下那為什麼中央不能付還是中央一開始中央的心態就是我只是開這個票 支票開出來就地方要一起付請問一下次長是哪一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3645.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3661.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
市長您是長賜嘛長賜一定很了解啊正賜我就不想多問了那請問一下長賜那到底這個是怎麼回事講一講又變地方要付錢謝謝委員的指教我想這個其實預算的部分其實我們每年在編包括那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3662.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3685.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
公務預算或相關的時候或者是我們訂定前瞻預算其實這一些的數額我們都會放在報給行政院的內容那這次的不是啊 你這問A答B啊你講這個東西就是編列預算的正常做法嘛我現在請教的問題是中央以及我剛秀給你看的PPT講得很清楚是中央付錢那現在要做的時候變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3686.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3704.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
票是中央開的 請客邀約的是中央 付錢的是地方我現在立體是這個 我不能問A答B啦好不好 您是常識不正識 不要學正識啦好不好 那請問一下為什麼變成是地方要付錢 甚至台北好像要到40%嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3705.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3731.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我們這個也應該跟今年的預算其實也有被刪減也有關啦又來了我跟你講你們又開始我跟你講內政部現在是造謠部啦內政部長我都已經告發了造謠他去搞他的台灣國嘛他就最愛搞台灣國最愛搞台灣國的主人他就去時間都花在搞這些還有在那邊騙人啦什麼租金補貼被刪光那這我已經依法告發了啦但我覺得這個都很糟糕 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3732.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3748.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
什麼時候中央的部會變成是造謠的大本營啦我跟你講啦那我在這邊再說一次說到都爛掉了今年的總預算史上最高啦比去年還多729億啦然後非法定義物支出是1.3兆那所謂的被刪的講說什麼636億那個只佔2%啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3751.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3769.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
然後在那邊跟全國說調整不了那不是比陳水扁跟張信雄時代更不如嗎張信雄時代他們的預算數更低啊而且被刪的更高650幾億還是多少人家從政府運作的順順利利的也平平安安的就今天到我們這裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3771.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3783.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
廁所衛生直接買不起水也沒有水然後再來啦我跟你講我覺得很恐怖的就是這個政府我在那邊跟各位報告跟全國人民報告這很恐怖的是這個政府一般性補助款對的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3785.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3802.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
縣市裡面的一些教育的支出那個弱勢團體的支出你也敢砍租金補貼租屋族很辛苦你也敢砍你也叫地方付地方現在付不出來然後什麼都說是預算背三為了罷免可以這麼做我這也服了你們了齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3804.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3823.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我覺得你又在這邊講預算支出我才跟你提這個不然我完全不想再提這個那個才化法的跟這個總預算的問題因為都講到爛掉了再講也沒有用所以你一下砍地方補助款一下砍租屋補貼每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體啦我跟你講啦您是事務官出身嘛我也是事務官出身的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3823.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3845.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我們都是為這個國家為這個人民在思考結果我今天看到的是政府是這麼做您是事務官出身但是您是次長你在這邊可能也不方便講一些話但是大家心裡應該都有感啦怎麼會政府會運作到今天這樣每一刀都是砍向弱勢團體而且去年還超收五千多億我真的覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3847.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3875.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
這樣沒有辦法做事情那我請教一下移民署署長我們昨天辦公室有跟移民第二代他們的團體在座談那他們一直有提到一個點就是說他們覺得在跨部門的事項上面你們的聯繫是很不足的他們一直跟我們有這些抱怨那他們也擔心說日後成立這個新住民發展署會有一樣的問題請問署長在橫向聯繫上面是不是有出問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3877.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3899.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
報告委員 事實上我們這個在新住民相關事務的部分我們行政院有成立一個這個協調匯報那有關新住民的相關的跨部會的一些業務都是由這個行政院來召開新住民事務協調匯報就相關資源的整合這個部分由新住民事務協調匯報來協助做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3902.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3919.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以你認為不會有問題目前為止是不會有太大的問題那我跟你講喔政府機關永遠說沒問題但是人民這些新住民二代他們一直覺得有問題所以我在這邊要跟署長說明這個狀況他們也擔心新住民發展署成立之後也會一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3920.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3948.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
的問題會發生 所以我在這邊跟您說明一下是不是容我補充說明一下 因為我們新住民事務協調匯報他整個的這個 我們的這個委員裡面有29位委員那29位委員裡面其中有12位是新住民及其子女作為代表那其他的部分就是由學者專家跟所謂的機關代表所以其實在新住民及其子女的代表的比例裡面是 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3948.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3976.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
比較高的所以照理講在正常的狀況之下應該是我們新住民及其子女他應該有足夠的發聲的聲量以上不是啊我跟你講你現在講的是官方的說法但是我現在回應給你的是人民的感受這些團體他們來是二代新住民的二代他們這個團體來跟我們辦公室開會我們都有會議記錄我們的結論他們就是做這樣子的反應所以我要反應跟市長說也就是說我不可能一直說我做得多好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3976.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4002.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我一直這樣講對我做得多棒不可能會有問題但是使用者覺得有問題嘛消費者的回饋就是覺得有問題嘛那我就沒辦法說我自己很好公務機關如果你覺得自己做得非常好可是人民的感受不是如此好有關落差的部分我們會來加強溝通那請教一下任市長喔請問喔接下來我們有一些新住民的那個發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4003.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4020.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
請問一下他們如果需要有一些人力的增列,這個人事總署這邊會同意增編嗎?這本來成立機關以後,該增的延遏,我想我們第一個階段會從移民署,他有一個移民事務署,那些人扛開,轉過來,出年不夠的話,我們會去倒傘 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4022.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4041.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以你們沒有問題嗎那我為什麼問這個問題就是因為那個劉世芳部長他一直說會與行政院人事總署跟主義總署研擬這個組織如何調整那至少我現在就聽到了就是人總這邊沒有問題那將來我就不能接受說內政部如果再跟我說人總這邊在 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4042.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4058.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
在卡住或什麼所以謝謝任市長告訴我這個沒問題最後20秒我說因為剛剛黃國昌委員有提到籌備處的問題那個次長因為我們看到就是劉思芳部長在4月的時候他口頭有說籌備小組已經開16次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4060.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4088.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那我想說既然開了16次那你們應該有完整的這個小組的名單啦對不對應該有嘛應該不至於說照人剛剛說你也不知道這個小組有多少人齁所以要請次長再您是那個小組的召集人嗎我是召集人我主持過7次那移民署本身自己也召開過12次那其實小組成員都是我們跟移民署那甚至包括我們內政部的人事處相關單位都有派員 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4090.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4117.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們還是需要知道一些進度啦所以如果說你們那裡都沒有一個完整的資料給我們但我們也會疑惑所以請你們進度一定要出來好不好沒問題那就人事長這邊再麻煩您您剛也說說這個沒有問題嘛我想說因為有時候我會遇到一些主管會用人事處這邊人事總處在卡這個人力啦然後來回應好那就謝謝謝謝人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4119.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4124.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
好 謝謝次長 謝謝署長好 謝謝吳宗憲、張偉 請吳宗憲、張偉繼續主持會議好 謝謝 我們下一位請張志倫委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4139.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4149.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好 謝謝主席我們是不是有請各位委員各位官員早是不是有請內政部這個吳長志以及行政人事總署的蘇仁市長好 仁市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4151.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4156.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
阿維也好阿維也好阿維也好阿維也好阿維也好阿維也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4173.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4190.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
其他在野黨的委員也有提說現在目前還沒有正式的這個施行日期還沒有正式的上路所以這邊也希望說長期的部分可以繼續加油趕快讓行政院來公佈好不好可以嗎可以的謝謝那在第一本法第四條裡面有寫說內政部應該設置一個專責的三級機關就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4197.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4210.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
發展署的一個部分來統籌新住民的相關政策以及服務事宜那在去年12月的時候內政委員會在審內政部的預算當時劉思芳部長說114年的上半年本來就可以來讓將這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4213.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4239.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
組織法草案送到立法院審查可是今年的5月14號本席又在內政委員會請教劉世芳部長他跟我說他說要改到下會期才可以送進來那我今天看到內政部的報告裡面是寫說因為這可能牽扯到的內容相關的複雜需要相當的作業時間那我們有想先請教一下院版的時候這個常識有沒有覺得什麼時候可以收到立法院審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4241.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4262.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
謝謝委員的指教我想總統公布之後其實我們在去年底已經把我們相關的資料都先報給行政院那也承諾我剛剛有跟大家報告其實因為這個整個新住民基本法裡面的新住民包括定義包括事務包括有涉及到剛剛講的文化教育衛福還有勞動那這些的部分都還需要再做跨機關的業務的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4263.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4284.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那我想我自己本身召開的儲備小組我還是會繼續找相關單位來看有沒有更好的經濟就是說因為新住民大家有很多委員非常關心因為現在新住民人數大概已經超過60萬了新住民家庭人數超過100萬所以我們才想說這個是非常的重要不管是新住民現在的很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4285.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4300.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這個就學教育等等醫療問題其實都急需一個專法來協助那其實我也要跟部長跟這個長治報告其實在去年在我們的新住民基本法在修法的時候其實也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4301.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4320.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個內政委員會我們先提出我們的版本然後在去年的4月29號先出審然後6月12號排第二次審查後送出委員會朝野協商在6月28號行政院才這個很慢的就是好像有點被趕鴨子上架來把版本送進來那我們希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4321.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4346.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
最後在7月16號進行二三讀我們希望說這次行政院可以提早送進來版本不要這麼的趕這要拜託一下再來我們請教一下剛剛很多委員也有請教說過去你們也開了很多次有關的籌備小組的會議剛剛也有特別討論說籌備小組的人數跟成員可是我想比較重要的點是討論的內容是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4348.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4369.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那因為很多委員好像有所知現在好像因為討論的內容非常的複雜那是不是可以請你簡單的講一下到底討論的內容這麼十幾次的籌備小組的內容大概具體的內容是什麼遇到什麼樣的困難是不是可以請你簡單去說一下那我想這個我們籌備小組去年成立之後目前我主持開過七次啦第一個是業務執掌 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4370.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4389.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
然後人員編制那甚至有辦公廳設還有未來的年度預算的編列那我們目前規劃的部分是4個組12顆總共會有將近100人的正式員額那這部分也都非常謝謝人事總署的幫忙那未來我們移民署的部分大概會將近快50個會移播到 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4391.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4414.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
新成立的這個新住民發展署那後續的部分其實我這邊其實比較簡單就是就業務執掌的內容的部分可能還需要規模跟經濟上的編制那這個部分當然我這邊也會請任總來給我們協助請問任總 請問蘇仁市長那剛剛所這個常次有講的人數的部分請問你們可以協助嗎現在有沒有什麼遇到什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4416.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4435.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
事實上過去內政部跟我們大概開了22次會議那我們人總有參加了有跨部會協調有三次他們會把他們碰到問題我們會請你來協助他們所以目前來講沒有很大的問題我們都有一些SOP在處理那沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4436.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4451.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
好OK好謝謝那我再請教一下剛剛這個長癡有講到我們的業務量很多那就報告的寫裡面的內容寫說現在竟有百項的業務那你剛有稍微提說總共分四個小組會把這百項的業務來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4453.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4482.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那其實我們在這個我們的草案的版本裡面也有寫說我們所要的職長的業務範圍內那就請這個內政部的部分來去對一下說看我們現在草案的部分跟你們現在內容的百項的業務內容是不是可以相符如果有需要有看過了嗎有沒有都符合我簡單跟委員報告那我們是依照新住民基本法裡面的內容所以我們從那個新住民基本法裡面的業務內容的架構我們才會把它分成四個組12課那如果有細項的部分到時候我再會有提供給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4483.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4508.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
好那最後我請教一下齁其實剛剛講的嘛預算的部分那我現在比較擔心的一個點齁跟常事請教了一下如果今年在上半年度我們當然希望當然在野黨當然希望說可以提早通過啦那剛剛當然部長是說希望到下個會期才通過我覺得大家還可以協商齁不過我覺得還是要尊重立法院我們照顧新住民權益的一個努力啊那我在想請教的是說那如果因為現在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4510.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4525.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
這個年度其實預算已經在編列當中了那如果這個會期什麼時候通過法案的時候可以讓我們的新住民發展署在明年上路大概整個期程你可不可以稍微解釋一下我簡單跟委員報告因為我們現在目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4526.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4532.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我們預計明年 因為我們剛好正在籌備115年的預算我們也出估針對新住民發展署成立之後 未來的年度規模大概會到7億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4542.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4564.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
人事的部分大概將近100多人那還有10個月聘僱那我們年度的預算會在7億那以今年來講在如果在今年如果要可以先成立之後可以去推動我們目前預估也會大概要今年的話剩下大概還要籌1億8那這個1億8的部分的新增的業務內容都是依照基本法的內容我們去做盤整的所以預算的部分今年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4565.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4590.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
有機會在明年今年會先編明年的預算嗎今年現在正在編明年的有編這個新住民發展署的預算因為現在才六月那再來的話就今年的部分如果有需要用的部分我們會用追加有機會要追加預算所以如果我們今年法令不管在上半年或下半年通過這個法令其實新住民發展署是有機會有預算可以在明年度使用今年的話就只能走追加對 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4590.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4603.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
然後如果不夠的可以走追加的部分就對了好那最後一個問題喔時間的關係喔那我最後想請教我們新住民發展署的地點上次我詢問大概在新北或是台北那現在有比較具體的地方可以透露嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4605.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4623.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
簡單跟委員報告 其實那個第一個要挑盡量離中央各部會比較近的啦那我們可能會在落腳或是台北跟新北我們都有在考慮幾個點所以還沒有完全確定都還沒確定 都還沒確定好 那希望說我們內政部可以繼續來努力那我們樂觀其成 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝 下一位我們請蘇巧慧委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4640.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4642.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請吳次長麻煩次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4647.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4672.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
市長好 市長我們今天是要來討論這個新住民發展署的組織法草案那這個我必須說有一點遺憾因為當時我們在討論這個新住民基本法的時候其實大家都知道新住民已經現在是台灣不可分割不可或缺的組成我們都非常非常的期待大家是一起為這塊土地努力 沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4673.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4701.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
所以政府也應該要照顧這些新來的夥伴能夠盡快的加入這個大家庭並且權益要能夠受到保障這就是我們對所謂新住民的態度而且第一代來這裡的時候他叫新他的第二代是新住民的子女但是到第三代第四代呢其實我們在場甚至包括在場所有的人都來自不同的地方上述到幾代沒有人是相同的但今天我們全部都是台灣人 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4701.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4721.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
所以新住民之子的在下一代在下一代是不是還是新住民當時都有很清楚的在討論過所以這部這個基本法也好或者是法規也好當時就說新住民定義是新住民本身以及新住民之子放在新住民基本法是這樣子討論來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4722.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4752.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
好 我要先講這個前提是在於說大家都想照顧新加入台灣的夥伴這個沒有問題可是當時的法規制度到底是要用什麼樣的法治條例來讓這一部法律文字能夠對新朋友新住民更多的保障當時就有兩種派別嘛第一個是基本法也就是在凌駕在所有其他法律之上的一個通則一個像憲法一樣的精神所有的法律在基本法之下都要臣服嘛這是基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4752.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4770.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
好 但是 但是因為新住民的相關事務實在涉及太多面向了你看看今天來的部會有多少單位還有所有未來我們要討論的問題從教育 社福 這個甚至是勞動太多了啦 勞動不只啦 實在太多 等一下請你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4771.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4789.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以當時就想說那會不會有彼此漢格的地方所以本基於剛剛要說的保護 保障新加入的朋友的這一群人我們是不是用一個作用法的形態所以當時我們的主張是新住民權益保障法 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4790.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4809.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
讓這個法跟其他法有一個空間可以互相流通這是這樣的狀況可是當時本黨的委員我們這邊的委員因為人數比較少所以後來就通過了基本法基本法也很好啦 就通過了啦那通過了以後那現在要開始落實了我們現在在討論相關的法規署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4812.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4822.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
市長不好意思市長我想請問你一下你現在開了七次的會議你剛剛說七次嘛是七次的會議理論上是就剛剛所有相關方方面面的問題你要去盤整盤點以至於解決甚至是為了解決而設計再寫出新的相關的法條出來這樣我們今天才能夠有所謂的法條來討論嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4837.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4863.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那顯然你因為說就是因為這麼複雜啊所以院版的還沒有能夠今天呈現在委員會上面但反過來有這麼多的委員已經有版本了來 次長 我現在就要問你第一 你在這七次會議當中有遇到哪一些問題這些問題是否如同當時我們講的確實是有漢格之處以至於困難難解到底有還是沒有是我們多慮了呢還是實務上真的有這樣發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4864.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4884.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
第二如果確實有這個漢格的發生的話那你現在要怎麼解今天所有的委員版因為都不是院版嘛委員版當中是不是就有因為我們擔憂的這種狀況所以如果他就現在先寫成委員版的條文是不是通過以後反而會造成更大的麻煩市長請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4887.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4914.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
好謝謝委員那我想我主持的七次的整個籌備小組的部分其實會先都是先琢磨在新住民基本法的內容那它的內容的部分所以我們在檢視的時候我們到底是說到底要幾個科要承辦什麼業務所以我們就依照基本法裡面的劃分裡面去研究那去研究了之後其實才發現說其實包括有教育的部分有文化的部分有勞動的部分就業的部分甚至還有有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4915.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4933.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
媒體宣傳應該不是才發現啦是更確認啦就是因為這樣所以我們在組別的時候我們就會先找各相關部會就是原本有一些是在各部會工作的部分那我們就要跟他協調是把這業務部分是連同人移播過來或者是業務移播過來人們移過來所以我們一直在開這個會 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4933.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4955.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
因為事實上比如說勞動好了我新住民在一個地方上班會牽涉到的勞動到底是以人為界線所有的我在這裡上班所以我所有未來碰到的東西以後都變成是移民署這邊來處理還是是勞動部那我和一個台灣現在的本地的人這樣子的兩個人的狀況到底這件事情要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4956.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4977.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這個會不會有這樣的問題?就是會有,所以我們包括像教育部的部分,包括教育事業、教育就業那這些的部分其實例如說通譯等等的那這個在基本法裡面有規範的部分,我們都要找教育單位來做確定還有我想國人也相當關心的,因為我們的新住民主城是來自於新住民他們來自多個不同的國家,包括中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4978.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4993.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那所以到底是先適用兩岸人民關係條例還是先適用這個新住民的這個部分那您怎麼回答是 謝謝委員長那我想在新住民基本法第二條裡面他當時是把婚姻移民之外還有包括專業技術移民也要保障新住民子女 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4993.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5010.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
其實我們目前新住民定義的部分其實在婚姻移民的部分這邊就佔的蠻多的啦是就佔的蠻多那其實這個佔的蠻多之外那有些是還要分兩種他的身分別是什麼第二個他有沒有取得國人身分那如果取得國人身分其實就是我們的國民啦我們的認為是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5011.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5034.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那我們經統計這樣子的話 目前新住民基本法適用就超過50萬那他未來還會繼續受陸委會的管轄嗎 依然要人民關係條例這個部分就是還要再進一步 要進一步進行是嘛 所以就是有這麼多問題 到底解決到哪裡了 還是還沒有到底是解決的前期 還是已經快解決完了 還是是什麼狀況跟委員報告 我想這部分我們都還會跟陸委會還要再確認有關婚配移民的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5035.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5052.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我想我今天用全部的時間 其實我準備非常多題目啦因為其實如果要具體下去的話我個人最關心的是包括通譯制度的部分那時候我們在審查基本法的時候甚至有做了附帶決議要求內政部既有的通譯制度要能夠更精進甚至要有專責的這個單位來做統一 全國統一各族群統一的這個通譯制度不過呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5058.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5067.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我覺得與其在這裡進入到細節的討論不如是我們大家一起尤其是今天是內政和司法的聯繫我們再一起回憶一次當時我們要做這部法律的時候其實是為了保障新加入台灣的朋友們新住民的權益讓他們可以更好的生活在這塊土地上更快的融入這個社會這是我們的本意 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5083.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5098.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
但如果我們因為這部法律以及如果我們要倉促上路後面的相關配套倉促上路的話那麼我認為有可能反而會得不償失因為牽涉的方面可能太 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5098.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5119.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
太多了我反而會覺得應該是內政部是不是應該不管是在內政委員會也好因為這是我們的本業嘛你們應該定期提出專報跟我們報告說現在進度到哪裡了我們戰不戰成這樣的方向大家都戰成了之後有共識之後再劃約為文字一次到位這樣大家才能得到最好的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5120.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5139.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
而不是今天就已經就現在的委員的各版本在沒有院版的狀況下沒有共識甚至是沒有會議已經有定論的狀況下就開始處理這樣的法案這是我個人的意見啦好 謝謝那我們下一位請王逸川委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5152.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5177.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請內政部次長還有考選部 權序部跟陸委會考選部 權序部 陸委會 請代表上台好 部長你是這個新住民這個發安署的籌備的負責人 不管叫什麼職稱這個我們在新住民定義裡頭 跟中國人 中國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5180.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5189.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那是新住民嘛 中國人有中華民國國籍 比新住民來 陸委會委員好請問一下 你的報告裡面說新住民新的單位 發展署 新立了啦叫你們不應用 都叫你們不關 是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5205.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5220.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
報告委員 陸委會的意思是說我們沒有業務跟人員要移撥但不是說這個新住民的照顧跟陸委會無關陸委會的那個報告不是這個意思業務沒有要移撥所以中國的新住民 要找陸委會沒有找這個新的署 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5227.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5251.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
報告委員 因為陸委會負責是政策協調沒有啦 我這麼問你是好 海基委啦 陸委會 海基委中國的新住民 來到台灣之後有新住民身份 不用找這個書啊我們還是再找你們陸委會跟海基委對不對都是一起合作的啊不是一起合作啦 現在就是中國的新住民回到台積啊我們還是要提供協助啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5253.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5269.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
還是要提供協助市長找你們嗎我想是婚姻移民的部分是新住民身份依照基本法第二條規定的那我相信這個陸委會跟我們的話應該是合作分工啦你們討論過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5271.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5298.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
呃 我召開小組的部分也有請陸委會來給我們一些意見阿有分工了沒我們還在討論還沒定案當然啦 因為我們因為陸委會報告裡面說業務沒有移撥剛剛陸委會講的部分是指那個就既有的業務哪一些是要移撥到新住民的是這個部分 是純粹細項的業務好 那它沒有移撥 那你們的業務你們這個新的 這個屬的業務有跟中國新住民有關的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5302.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5322.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
應該是身份別啦身份別如果他是大陸的配偶是婚姻移民的部分那當然跟新住民就有關了好第二我請問一下考選部或全序部啦來有雙重國籍的人可不可以當中華民國的公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5323.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5337.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
法委員依照公務人考試法要取得戶籍有身份才能參加公務人考試好所以我們這個新的署的署長、副署長、主任、秘書可不可以是中國人在上面回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5344.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5365.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
依據公園任用法的規定就是不能有雙重國籍那至於兩岸條例有規定說就是如果是大陸地區人民的話那兩岸條例有相關規範規定是什麼啦?現在就一個中國人啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5367.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5376.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
中國人婚姻移民來台灣啊,是中華民國的國籍啦他是中國人啦,是中華民國國籍,他可不可以當署長或署長主任秘書啦這個是在兩岸條例裡面的規範,所以兩岸條例因為這是屬於陸委會的權責來,陸委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5393.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5415.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
報告委員 依照兩岸條例第21條的規定那大陸人如果取得台灣的身份必須涉及滿10年才可以擔任公教人員所以他前提是要拿到身份證之後還要滿10年那他要當署長 要不要出事他放棄中華人民共和國的戶籍那依照工人任用法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5416.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5426.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
依照任用法的規定就是說 如果當事人他沒有辦法放棄國籍不可規則於他的話 那不只是中國大陸啦那現在中國人很聰明啦 不會國籍 戶籍 我在說戶籍出事要放棄戶籍證明 他可以來做我們這個署的署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5437.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5464.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
包委員依照兩岸條例他一定要放棄大陸的戶籍在拿到台灣身份證之後三個月內他一定要返回大陸取得註銷戶籍的證明資料給移民署好 現在最近不是在查這個什麼戶籍放棄的嗎對 現在正在查好 他就搞不出來他說年代久遠啊交不出來的那交不出來你們有變通方法嘛 對不對對 我們有一些這變通料也當作署長戶署長主任秘書了啦包委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5466.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5492.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
如果是他有特殊的狀況的時候,我們有說他可以拒絕或延後但是他本身如果還是拒絕,他還是拒有這可以嗎?他可以做署長、副署長、主任秘書嗎?如果是屬於大陸地區人民的部分,這還是有依照兩岸條例的規定辦理你不是全序部的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5494.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5514.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們主管公人任用法,那至於大陸地區人民,因為他比較特殊,所以他的相關規範是在兩岸條例裡面去規範我正在問,你題目就這樣,不是啦,你全序部,他要來叫我們署長、副署長、主任、秘書,叫三名給他送到全序部去,你總是要準啊,不準啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5515.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5532.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
就是我們會就是針對兩岸條例規範的相關內容如果有疑義的話我們還是會把你那雞頭鴨講這題目這麼清楚中外民國詮釋部的派來的人回答不出來中國人可以做我們的署長或是主席秘書詮釋部說不出來你敢不想哭啊你敢不想哭 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5543.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5550.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
你到底是在怕什麼啦,可以就可以,不行就不行啊這公文三號你回家,你還要去問陸委會他如果說還是屬於大陸地區人民的話,他是不能擔任公務人員好,來,接下來這一個考選部 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5566.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5574.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
這個委員有人提案,說醫療新住民的國家考試,由這個新的單位來負責,你的看法呢?我們中華民國有任何的新分,科技交給部會去科技的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5585.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5613.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
包委員這部分確實跟考試院的限定職長還有考選部的組織的權責有漢格之處那我進一步說明一下那是憲法規定的啦是是是因為考試考試為考試院長理的事項嘛那考試院為了辦理所謂的全國公務人員考試跟專門接技術人員考試的考選行政所以設有考選部那考選部依照我們的組織法的事項你是有意的啦對 是 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5614.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5632.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
你們是唯一的嘛 是是是啊所以這條你們要堅持啊有 我們有提出書面意見你怎麼說我們交通部的 要考什麼的 他們都叫交通部自己去考取外交部的 都叫外交部來去考取中外民國的國家要考取的就是考選部府級嘛考試院的考選部府級嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5633.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5639.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們為了某一個新聞 說那個新聞的科技 國家考試 要做中華民國公務人員那個單位自己科技 自己任用 開一條門之下這不通 這不通 這你們要堅持有 我們有提書面報告好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5653.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5671.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那個王偉遠你需不需要他們用書面回覆你剛剛那個問題不用啦不用喔因為這個喔我剛剛王偉遠的問題真的非常的清楚我都想要站起來幫你回答了結果你一直回答不出來是不是你們要先弄清楚因為剛剛他講的他的問題非常非常的明確啊我不懂為什麼答不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5674.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5686.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
沒有沒有沒有 這個還是有犧牲機關 我是說剛剛王委員的問題真的非常的明確對 非常非常 因為這法規上面都有 而且應該用的是兩岸條例 跟國際法也無關好 那我們下一位請黃婕委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5700.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5705.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
好謝謝主席那我們請內政部的次長麻煩次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5710.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5737.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
好次長好首先想要先跟您請教一下因為其實我們當初在審這個新住民的基本法的這個審理過程前面有一個非常重要的前提就是因為其實新住民的身份是一個過渡的他並不是永久的所以其實當初我們在說到底要基本法還是權益保障法的時候就經過一番爭論了因為其實我們知道說新住民的身份就是不是像原住民或客家的族群他就是是長久的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5738.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5760.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那隨著時間的推移那之後他融入台灣身份然後甚至拿到國籍之後其實是會改變的那也就是說他之後可能就會變成台灣人所以這個新住民的基本法對我來說我一直過不去的點就是他是一個過渡期的保障的權益的保障的一段期間但是我們現在卻要不斷的用基本法來涵蓋這整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5762.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5768.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
新住民的範圍這其實是蠻衝突的一件事情那就例如說已經取得身份證的新住民他之後其實就是台灣人嘛就應該要跟國人是享有同等的義務跟權利的那針對這段過度的時間給予適當的協助融入台灣的社會然後彌平這個落差然後不要永久的標籤化他們是新住民這個我認為才是一個對的目標啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5789.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5807.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
所以今天討論這個新住民的組織法必須要在這樣的前提之上我認為非常重要才知道說到底在這段期間怎麼保障他們的權益怎麼樣在這個組織法裡面進行這一些權責的分配那我看了一下其實今天這個我們要真的要進到細則的這個權責分配就會變得非常的複雜 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5810.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5828.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
就例如說我認為裡面涵蓋了各式各樣的部會其實都是衝突的甚至是重疊的就例如說我隨便舉個例子例如說這個有一個委員裡面有提到說如果新住民署裡面的人權保障跟歧視的申訴這樣子的業務應該是哪一個單位負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5832.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5852.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
那他說接下來要由新住民的發展署來負責但其實我們目前在行政院的人權處就有這樣子的工作了所以到時候是說如果是新住民的身份這段期間是要把這個業務撥給新住民發展署然後那他成為國人之後再撥回人權處是這個意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5853.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5873.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
謝謝委員指教我想我們這次也是依照新住民基本法的內容那也成如剛剛委員所談的因為有些像人權性別歧視或者是不公平待遇的部分那其實在院裡面其實都有分工啦沒錯 性平處人權處其實針對這一些申訴的管道跟這一些負責其實都有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5874.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5890.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那目前這個意思就是說如果他是新住民身份那不好意思你就是專責在這個新住民發展所裡面處理那如果你等你不是新住民身份你成為國人了那我們再重新回到人權處跟性平處是這個意思嗎所以這個就是有漢格的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5891.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5919.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那要怎麼處理那我這邊也跟委員報告那其實新住民只要取得我國國民身份的話其實就是國人那新住民基本法照他的架構來講應該是說婚姻移民專業技術跟新住民子女但是新住民子女他其實慢慢就已經融入國人了那照理講我們是要照顧新住民啦但是不是說把他做一個標籤化或區隔化應該是要這樣那剛剛委員所垂詢的一些相關的業務內容那這也是我們目前跟幾個部會要去做釐清的那有些是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5919.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5942.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
沒有啊 我今天就是來希望我們進入實質的討論因為等一下就要準備主條了嘛這個就是今天最大的問題啊就是你們跟各部會之間的權責到底有漢格之處怎麼釐清這就是大家今天想知道我這邊只是舉個例子喔後面還有包括新住民廣播電視規劃新住民國家考試的規劃甚至教育協助的規劃督導 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5944.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5958.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這些他全部都放在裡面很多委員版本裡面都有所以到時候考選部文化部NCC教育部這些大家所有的部會的權責是只要是新住民身份全部都放在發展署嗎是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5959.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5986.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我很想知道啊就包括其實剛剛一川委員這個問題也是啊難道新住民身份的如果跟其他部會夜館的職務有衝突的時候是直接以這個為主嗎因為他其實他的根據是新住民的基本法那基本法的這個他的法律位階是很高的也就是說所以我們接下來所有就是把新住民跟國人切開嗎那這樣子真的好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5988.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6003.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
謝謝委員我想就是因為跟其他相關目的事業主管機關的主管法規其實都有衝突的地方那這個部分這個就是我們要去釐清的所以我希望你在這裡釐清啊什麼叫做你們要去釐清的 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6003.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6008.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
所以這才要跟各部會再去做進一步的業務分工要做確認那你們討論過了嗎 開過會了嗎我剛剛隨便提幾個部會就已經非常多了人權處 性平處 考選部 文化部 教育部 甚至NCC這個全部他把所有的職長都放在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6024.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6039.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以我們才會認為說這個部分是應該有些是不應納入啦真的有些是不應納入所以等一下我們進到主條的時候你會一一的告訴我們哪一些不應納入在這個組織法裡面是這樣子嗎如果可以讓我提供意見我一定會提供我一定會講 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6039.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6055.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那我現在就是希望你提供啊那其實在這個條文內容有些比較不適宜像社會保險法律諮詢像考試權任用像這些部分其實這個都有關係啦因為我們目前這個都不是院的版本所以那院的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6058.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6085.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這個也要跟我們報告所以我們還是要先把剛剛講的衛福 勞動 文化 教育這些如果都不釐清其實就來把組織法來這邊做討論所以其實前面還有非常多定義的問題要先釐清這就是希望今天在進入實質討論之前大家可以先把定義弄清楚否則今天的討論很難進行下去好嗎了解好 謝謝次長好 謝謝下一位我們請張宏祿委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6098.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6124.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
來我請次長麻煩次長喂好次長我們今天在討論這個法案之前在內政委員會有討論大家對要訂基本法或權益保障法就有很大的分歧我相信這個次長也知道次長我請問一下對新住民我們要不要照顧要 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6125.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6153.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
要嘛 我也認為要啊但有很多的新住民他也不願意一輩子人家稱呼他新住民吧對 應該不要標籤化不要標籤化對啊 我覺得內政部啊可以對我們新住民這些做一個民調看有多少人是希望永遠被稱呼新住民或是他希望人家以後就跟他講你是中華國 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6155.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6177.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
民國的國民你就是台灣人我覺得你們可以去做一些這個民調讓社會大眾知道我覺得很多人跟我講說他不想永遠都被叫新住民啊而且對他的下一代好像也覺得不勝公平啊對不對所以社會上有不同的聲音而且次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6179.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6189.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
如果新住民拿到台灣中華民國的身份證他到底是不是中華民國的國民 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6192.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6220.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
包委當然是拿到身份證拿到身份證之後那一刻他的身份是不是就轉變了他就是國人他的身份是不是轉變了我要次長你要說這一句他的身份是不是就是轉變為國人他的身份已經轉變了是的 拿到身份證一定是中華民國的國民對嘛所以我們要保障我們要照顧新住民確實是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6221.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6238.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
但也不能用一個什麼叫做新住民的基本法把他的身份框一輩子把他身份框一輩子好像覺得說對他特別照顧但其實也有某種相對一個反面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6239.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6252.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
感覺他是不同的人他永遠融入沒有辦法融入台灣這個社會永遠沒有辦法真正成為一個台灣人會不會有這種情況啊 市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6254.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6280.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
是 其實我們我當然會希望新住民基本法這個去施行的結果是第一個是要讓他成為我國國民之後融入台灣社會這才是我們的目的啊那對於他的其他的業務如何融入在文化教育或者是就業給予一些協助我想這才是應該新住民基本法的最主要目的融入之後然後成為我國的國民當然就是我國的國民就依照我們國民的相關規定沒有還有一個很重要的觀點 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6282.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6310.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我們的原住民族基本法原住民族他是在台灣這塊土地上他有特殊的文化他有特殊的傳統他們的風俗而且他是比我們都還找到台灣這塊土地的人所以他有他的特殊性他有他的文化歷史幾千年來的你一個移民到台灣來的人他應該是最想要融入台灣吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6311.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6331.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
是不是應該是對啊那應該是我們用法律把他框住了框住他不能變為真正的台灣人我覺得這個好像是有點說不過去我們要保障是他在到台灣的時候還沒有拿到 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6331.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6356.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
身份證的時候這一段的期間我們要去輔導他去保護他有一些這一點應該是一個短暫的時刻而不是永遠我覺得舉例來講美國算是一個很大的移民社會吧美國有這些法律嗎雖然沒社會但是我相信都是一個文化不同的世界移民到美國我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6357.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6385.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
你要成為美國公民的時候不是要宣誓你現在開始這一刻就是美國公民然後你要盡很多的義務什麼的這個就很簡單啊美國是一個最大的移民社會啊那我們要讓任何人來台灣我覺得最重要的就是要讓他認同台灣而不是把他框住你要把保護他要什麼是一段的過程而且今天的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6387.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6402.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
還有說國家考試要保障這個新住民我不知道次長你認為妥善不妥善雖然這不是你的業務我不知道次長你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6404.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6429.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
謝謝委員那我想我們國家的規定其實有行政院有立法院有考試院等等相關的院那各有各的職長跟權責啦那我相信國家考試任用這是考試院的權責所以我們內政部其實就算我們是三級機關未來這個成立之後新住民發展署其實也應該不能逾越這個考試的權責是這樣子不過重點是如果他可以參加國家考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6430.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6441.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
他要不要有台灣的身份證他是不是中華民國的國民重點是在這裡啊我覺得要統一啦因為只要是國民應該享有權利義務都是平均的 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6442.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6459.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
對啊他已經拿到身份證了他才能去參加國家考試啊對不對我們是要保障他在拿到身份證這之前我們要好好的保障他我覺得台灣啊雖然也是個移民社會但台灣的新住民問題沒有那麼複雜我們不要把它搞複雜在國外 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6462.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6483.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
還有難民的問題台灣目前是沒有的我們就跑好把新住民該給的照顧把它做好不要複雜化這樣子我覺得把它複雜化新住民也不是他的福利啦不知道部長你的看法 次長你的看法謝謝委員 我想委員剛剛講的部分其實我個人十分認同好 謝謝好 謝謝那我們下一位請麥玉珍委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6504.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6513.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
謝謝主席 有請次長麻煩次長委員好次長好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6515.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6544.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
從頭到尾聽了覺得你真的很為難但是新住民基本法從去年就是7月16號通過後依法內政部必須要成立新住民發展署當然我也了解成立一個署需要一定的行政跟時間所以將近一年的時間裡我持續針對新住民發展署也做了進度的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6545.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6568.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
但是非常辛苦爭取到的足夠三級機關的源額但是沒想到部長,我們的內政部長之前質詢的時候,居然說跟全民說我們三級機關已滿了連爭取這個已經通過,他都不知道所以上個月呢,省預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6569.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6595.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
解凍案的時候部長說相關的法律需要時間也需要行政總署協調所以沒辦法提出來剛才我們的行政總署也說開了22次的會內容是什麼但我們同樣來看了去年8月行政院宣布體育署升格為體育 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6597.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6606.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
體育部的時候呢原本的體育署改為全民運動署的字號改名後來呢又再這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6608.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6636.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
組織草案早早就在去年11月排入院會也順利在許多委員的提出版本裡面達成共識在今年1月也三讀通過所以當一樣的事情輪到內政部毫無進度從通過基本法直到今天已經超過11個月了要審查新住民發展署的組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6637.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6652.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
各委員包含臺灣民眾黨都提出版本可是我們依然看不到院版也看不到內政部的版本我們要如何去討論不要說過去 說都說過去 說快點所以我們希望我們的市長剛才你說你開了七次的會議七次的會議你跟誰開 怎麼開的 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6666.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6669.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
你最了解嘛所以你回答以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6671.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6700.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
好謝謝委員指教我想過去籌備小組的七次會議包括組織編制依照新住民基本法的內容的內容我們做業務分工所以我們已經研擬完成大概四個組有12個科那再來就是人員的編制那人員編制我們這邊也跟人總這邊所以你說你開了四次七次我看到七次你七次裡面的是籌備小組嘛但是呢七次裡面我要的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6701.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6724.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容各部會公文跨部會的公文在哪裡完全沒有你說的7次內政部給我的公文12次一樣只有主題沒有記錄也沒有內容也沒有跨部會的公文剛才我們的總之總數說22次 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6726.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6729.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
用噴的啦 人家都在吹啊 在說謊所以呢這個就是我們覺得說 體育部做到 內政部卻遲遲提不出來這樣到底是部長說有困難 還是單純不想做 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6744.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6765.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
法治是規劃新住民發展署不可缺的一部 這個是依法行政 不是叫你去做的啦但是內政部行呢 開會的記錄就是這樣就是整理出來每一次開會 沒有時間 沒有地點 也沒有各部會 這樣叫做開會 還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6767.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6788.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
什麼會 統內會吧我們可以看到的第五次跟第十二次的記錄裡面就是主題沒有記錄都有討論說新的機關組織草案但是關於說明的草案到現在目前的進度如何有沒有初步的版本讓我們能一起討論對不對 版本沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6794.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6818.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
討論那麼多次浪費資源浪費大家的時間事實上有沒有討論又不知道所以討論什麼討論了我們中央組織要去改組織的時候體育部的時候你們要討論怎麼樣一起來提啊完全沒有當我們已經台灣民眾黨爭取到新住民發展署附帶決議三讀通過這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6821.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6848.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
然而也準備好給你們了你們還是沒有討論到連部長都不知道討論在哪裡去了所以呢關於哪個部會在哪裡完全不知道所以開會紀錄也沒有所以在問說我們的內政部第五條裡面的內容我們新住民事務從移民署獨立出來的由我們發展署負責所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6849.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6876.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那麼單純直接的修法因為看不到版本只要七條而已但是你們討論那麼多次你們是不做還是沒有能力做還是無能做要說清楚吧完全沒有所以呢這個不是說修法什麼這樣的意見所以我們感覺就是剛才我們的王一川委員說你們中國你們中國新住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6878.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6883.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
你們也說不要歧視這個中國能不能當署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6884.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6905.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
中國不能當署長新住民在台灣可以當署長誰說的剛才我們王傑委員說我們一樣的我們新住民拿到台灣的身份證是一樣權利一樣對不對權利一樣職權也是要一樣吧你們說要一樣一定要一樣啊為什麼這個人又說不一樣這個人又說不一樣對不對這裡也說不一樣但是呢我們張綺路委員又說 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6912.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6938.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你拿到身份證那一刻你就是台灣人那一刻是台灣人不要分不要分為什麼有權力有職長有官位就要分所以說我們民進黨你們回去討論一下要討論你們要的不要一人說一句話都不一樣的所以關於我們民眾黨提出了發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6939.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6967.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
的法案裡面第二條第三款明定新住民發展署範圍就是新住民考試規劃執行督導與漲注希望的是什麼我們要強化新住民的政策新住民參與國家考試或者是說現在我們移民官裡面也有新住民在裡面考移民官 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6967.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6977.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
所以我們希望的是在我們的法裡面有這樣的考試列科考試列科怎麼去刪呢 怎麼樣補我們考試部說要來去刪除 我們是要講的是我們要輔導 要怎麼樣去督導監督 獎勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6990.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7015.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
他們要去考現在也有很多台灣人學不同國家的語言也在移民署裡面考這樣子的考官所以我們要的是考相關列科還有新住民也可以考其他人可以考但是我們希望說新住民優先是因為這個是鼓勵性質還有讓更多人有這個機會但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7017.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7036.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
條文不看來這裡拋空幹不好對不對我們要看條文關於這些條文關於這些規定來去問你們你們才答得出來不是都不懂來這裡問這是明嘴的方式所以希望我們今天把這個組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7037.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7053.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
以裡面的組織法來去討論 我們內政部行政沒有版本你們開會也開會不出來 不到你們開的是同樂會還是什麼會完全沒有簽名 完全沒有記錄 完全沒有公文這個是叫做開會嗎 連民間團體開會 都比你們開會更有效力啦以上 謝謝好 謝謝 那下一位我們請王美惠委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7068.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7068.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
麻煩次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7083.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7104.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
市長辛苦 老闆今天我們要討論新住民發展法裡面 我覺得每一個有每一個意見我們都要去尊重 因為說實在你如果來到這裡你自己有自己的主觀意識也不好 我們修一個法可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7108.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7117.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
更好,欠缺,收不到的,可以大家想出更好的辦法像我今天要跟你說的就是我們的新住民,剛才我們的董事也說過要加分,既然他已經是台灣人的身份證了,這個加分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7134.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7138.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
對我的意見來說 我覺得非常不適合因為我認為 大家都愛中華民國的台灣 才會來到中華民國的台灣生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7151.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7158.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
在這個規定當中會揭出他的新聞證不是說今天你進來台灣明天就可以揭出新聞證是要等久以來的時間才有辦法去揭出新聞證揭出新聞證就是標示他是中華民國台灣人的新聞證的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7178.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7183.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以他提出他的新聞證,就表示中華民國所有的福利所有的可以收錢,台灣人都可以收到的福利今天,我們就是說,要怎麼拿這個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7197.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7218.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
太好,因為我說了解,在我們這裡,你如果覺得說,數位跟局的,你們每一個人都會覺得說,是政務的論用,還是常務的論用,但是在這幾宗我們的司法裡面,台北我們譬如說, |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7222.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7246.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
觀光署 跟健保署 都用政務任用的啦在這個規定當中 我覺得三級的機關裡面 本質上我們都會用常務任用嘛 但是在非有做這個規定所以我們可以開放政務任用 或是可以用出 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7248.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7252.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
更好的人才,所以今天我們所討論的來賓,在這裡我要跟你說的就是,常務任用是看來賓有什麼,是在13 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7262.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7267.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
要不然在規定裡面 最有任用的法條裡面要不然在這個規定當中 我們可以法條裡面 可以寫出 政府可以比照檢認 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7281.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7287.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
因為我覺得這裡面的規定有時候會覺得說要說清楚沒亂吵吵你跟現在想要合作的想要做的最少有七八十項如果改良後改良後七八十項的時候人員就要加重金要跟一百人 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7309.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7336.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以在這個過程當中,我就是要跟你討論的說,我們這樣,你的感覺有困難度在哪裡?你們政府一來這個法要出來的時候,你們在內部裡面的區會裡面,有遇到什麼問題嗎?來請回答一下好,謝謝委員,我想基本法那個通過之後,其實我們現在最重要的就是依照基本法的內容做業務分工 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7337.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7358.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以業務分工才會有相關的部會就我剛剛一開始講的勞動、教育、社福等等的文化那因為這些東西的部分裡面如果有一些個別細節的部分譬如說任用權、通譯還有一些像學術、交流那這些東西有些東西本來是原本散在各個部會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7359.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7382.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那我們這一次就是要跟各部會就是說他的執掌業務哪一些是可以移撥給我的所以我要跟他討論所以我們跟他開啟示哪一些是他業務移撥人員不移撥這個都雖然都很細項但是如果沒有一個完整的做調整的話新住民發展署不可能去承接所有其他部位的業務我想這個是最主要的所以我們這次會調整四個組12顆其實有一些業務都是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7383.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7391.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
配合基本法之後所新增下來的那這個部分都還沒有辦法做一個完整的釐清的時候我們沒有辦法把組織法送上來最主要是這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7392.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7409.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
所以你們沒辦法上台就是另外一個問題嘛你們開始在那裡整合的心想說在一個單位在一個單位可以來在這個心法裡面來做來的合乎嘛所以到目前為止你們還沒想到要怎麼可以更好、更快 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7414.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7437.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我想跟你們報告其實我們大概都準備好了啦那只是接下來就是說還有跟部會的後續分工我們只要再確認說哪些業務不移波哪些業務留在原來可能是勞動文化教育衛福的部分我們繼續留著但是有一些新的部分其實像這次的組織法裡面談到的有關保險還有國家考試的任用權那這個部分其實有些是逾越我三級機關的組織法所應該能夠寫的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7439.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7451.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
大概是這樣子因為這裡跟你討論就是說我們的背景我們也要照顧到新的住民法我們也要照顧到我們當然要照顧新的住民法但是剛才我本身就是跟你說就是有這個問題說學生會跟我們說實在現在大家都很聰明尤其既然你已經來到台灣的生活的時候我相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7465.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7471.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
協助,一定都會協助,長久以來,移民署也都會協助這些新住民,對不對不然說,沒有在協助,它就靠不過去,要有協助才靠得過去,有加分才靠得過去我認為一個公平的社會時,這個科技的加分,我希望我們可以慎慎去評估對方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7493.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7499.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
為當中 我覺得這是不好的啦因為沒公平啦因為這個過程 我也覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7501.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7510.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
你講修法,怎麼自立來協助新住民轉業也好,嫁來這裡也好,來這裡做工作也好都可以給他們好好的照顧、協助我相信我們中央政府都願意這樣做啦不是說你有修這個新的法,到時候我就來照顧新住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7532.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7543.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
會協助和付出 我覺得這是非常不公平其實我們一直都在做 移民署的業務本來就有包含新住民輔導、文化、融入台灣社會對啊 所以我覺得長久以來 我們會覺得自己討論應該付出的、應該協助的 沒錯可是不要去磨滅他們長久以來會協助的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7557.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7565.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
他們是將來不再發生,他們覺得你來台灣,有什麼正確、什麼錯誤,我應該讓你合作這都是應該,但聽起來,他們覺得你沒有一個單位,他們就沒辦法在台灣選我我覺得這是非常對,長久以來合作這些新住民的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7584.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7599.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我們都持續在做,我們都一直在協助希望新住民能夠融入台灣社會,成為我們國民之後可以更融入台灣所以我對自己的心,新住民說實在他非常認真,非常認同台灣所以我們要怎麼讓他好,不是說為了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7608.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7609.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我們下一位請陳佩玉委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7645.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7650.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
好 謝謝主席 那先請內政部移民署 謝謝好 請移民署署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7654.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7674.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
委員好署長你好我想要跟你討論一下關於所謂新住民考試這件事情我先說一下我的認識再請署長給予指教因為剛麥玉珍委員一直在追這一題我認為他對於這件事情一定有很大的誤解甚至指控你們是同樂會這件事情一我想請問一下現在在民眾黨黨團還有國民黨黨團的版本裡面第二條的第二款他們第三款他們的寫法是這樣說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7682.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7703.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
他說新住民國家考試之規劃執行督導及獎勵他認為這個是相關的新住民發展署日後要負責的業務內容之一可是我的理解是不管他是來自於除了中國以外來自於哪一個國家的新住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7703.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7720.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
一定是要拿到台灣的身份證之後他就可以參與國家考試專業人員的認證考試然後他就可以因為這個考試的合格取得某一個公務人員的職位或者是在台灣以專業的身份進行社會參與我的理解是對的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7721.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7744.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
在這裡跟委員做一個報告其實根據我們憲法五權分立的一個原則其實國家考試權它是屬於所謂的考試院這是第一點我要做一個說明那第二個部分的話就是說在憲法裡面它有很明確的規定就是說我們不得因為這個性別、種族、身份而為不同的對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7745.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7766.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以在我們新住民基本法的第二條第三款裡面他去提到這個部分在這個相關的新住民只要是這個取得身份涉及十年之後他是有參加國家考試的權利取得身份涉及十年那這樣我就不懂了你認為因為你們一定研究過民眾黨團的版本跟國民黨團的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7768.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7789.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
他們之所以這樣寫,難道他們是希望,我不確定啦,因為我沒有去請教過他們難道他們是希望要為新住民朋友爭取,在沒有拿到身份證,而且沒有符合你剛剛的條件之前國家就必須要開一個特別的門,給新住民參與國家考試難道他們是想要這樣做嗎?那如果這樣做,會不會有你剛剛說違憲的問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7791.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7807.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
所以基本上我們認為這個跟憲法上是有所衝突的啦所以我們認為就是說不可以因為這個特殊的身份而這個他只要取得了身份涉及了之後他就是國人應該跟國人的權益是一致的不應該為特別的一個對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7808.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7833.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
好那這個等一下我們來討論的時候我認為這個問題很大那另外我也想問他可能想像另外一種國家考試你聽聽看就是他不參與公務人員的考試他可能參加所謂證照例如說美容師啊美髮師啊廚師啊像這樣的專業證照他可能認定這也是國家考試的一部分可不可以請您說明一下當然我知道是考試院或是全序部相關的業務但是就你們在法規上如何去做一些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7835.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7852.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這個應該是屬於所謂的是不是所謂的專門職業技術的這種考試這種考試它相關的一個規範其實坦白講我不是那麼的清楚好沒錯我們等一下也許要進入主條討論也許我們要討論這些內容的時候我認為這些事情是我們要釐清的 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7853.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7869.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
不是一個委員在質詢台上大吼大叫好像看起來是在為新住民爭取權益但我認為他創造了更難以討論的模糊空間我想這件事情你剛說明非常清楚我們也會持續關注來 謝謝移民署那接下來有請內政部次長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7875.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7880.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好 謝謝次長我想要跟次長分享一下關於新住民的權益我知道我們過往內政部做了非常非常多的事情下一張我們接下來討論關於新住民的運動需求我想跟次長分享一些很溫馨可愛的案例在頭影片的左手邊是台灣杯足球賽他所協助的是移民 移工 新住民等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7897.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7925.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
因為他們在台灣有相關運動社團的需求那於是他們有自主組織了一些團隊然後自己還舉辦比賽甚至這個規模越來越大他現在甚至有一個正式的名字叫台灣杯足球賽那當然這件事情呢過往在體育署也好在外交部也好他們都有積極的協助那過未來我還其實要拜託內政部這邊我們如何協同體育署或是外交部積極給予更多協助因為未來運動部要成立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7927.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7942.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
現在運動部的規劃裡面呢我的想像啦它可能必須要放在重規或是運動休閒或是社區運動或是運動健康其實這邊只是先友善的提醒跟拜託內政部後續在運動部掛牌成立之後如何部會之間的討論跟對接 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7945.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7972.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這邊也特別謝謝委員那我想其實我們在跟相關部會在討論的業務分工其實包括在教育部分因為現在還沒有分家所以在教育部分包括運動比較少討論到我們是討論到他的教育例如說通益的一些訓練等等的那我想這個新的項目部分我們後續還是會跟目前教育部還是會來討論這個分工好 這個部分就要拜託我們後續也可以一起來努力好 謝謝那接下來有請全序部 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7975.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7998.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
次長請回謝謝主席我還有時間你突然站起來嚇我一跳我聽到你說謝謝我還沒還沒好 全序部這邊我要先謝謝全序部我們來討論一個事情當然今天要拜託您把問題帶回去因為可能不是您的工作長期可以回答不過沒有關係我把問題反映出來第一個我們看到考試院有發布公務人員請假規則修正草案在6月16號的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8000.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8017.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
裡面很重要的事情是把身心調試假放進去了資料委員爭取了很久總算放進去了但是我們看到相關配套我們有一點擔心我們先提出來拜託你們帶回去討論怎麼說呢你們說身心這個相關的法規說身心調試假要納入試假病假 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8019.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8034.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
來計算他的寫法是這樣可是如果我們來看到公務人員考積法實行細則裡面他說市價並價合計超過14天者考積不得列為假等所以原本本來是每億的身心條市價他如果又被這一條卡住 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8035.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8046.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
會不會有另外的身心壓力當然我認為這都需要配套跟討論因為我看到你們其實有一個美意喔我們來看一下在這個公務人員考接法實行細則裡面呢第四條有寫到應該要扣除家庭照顧假生理假還有安胎適由 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8052.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8079.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
也就是說我們在制定相關法規的時候我們知道有更多基層公務人員的需求是希望包含這些但不要被併入所謂試駕併駕14天考機便宜等所以身心調試駕假設真的列為試駕但是還有跟這個卡住所以要拜託你們待會去研議好不好我們先預先把配套做好讓我們真的想要協助公務員並且真的讓身心調試駕的美意在未來執行的時候它真的是可以往好的方向發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8081.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8105.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
跟委員報告一下我們這次公務員請假規則的修正草案裡面其實已經有明訂說身心調試假不可以影響公務員的考積但是因為他跟實行細則他把他放進試假裡所以雖然利益良善但是他回到實行細則他又卡住了好不好好就拜託你們待會去討論好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝好我們下一位請審發會委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8119.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8129.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我們順便宣告一下待會在李博義委員訓導後我們休息五分鐘主席我們請次長麻煩次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8135.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8145.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
市長好市長我們今天要來審查有關於內政部新住民發展署的組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8151.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8164.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
這其實是我們司法法治委員會第一次有機會討論有關新住民的議題之前在新住民基本法的整個立法過程我們看到整個立法過程其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8166.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8187.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那就是在這個內政委員會之後,內政委員會保留的條文,然後到政黨協商,政黨協商有排,政黨協商但是事實上也沒有討論,那就進付二讀,就把就最後就到二讀,直接就二讀、三讀,那就通過了所謂這個原住民基本法。那在這個過程裡面,事實上我們司法法治委員會一直沒有機會來討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8189.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8214.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那今天因為有這個組織法所以我們回頭我利用這個機會回頭來看這個我們當初在我剛所講這樣的立法過程中這個原住民基本法這個立法本身它的荒謬不是新住民新住民新住民基本法立法本身的荒謬那這個這個在其實在討論過程中民進黨就我們黨團就一再的說明說這個新住民基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8215.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8235.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
他用基本法裡面去規範一大堆應該是作用法裡面的一些規則把一些各個包括各個現在各個部會不同部會的這些組長事務把它揉揉抽抽從移民署陸委會甚至衛福部的這些兒少保護這些東西抽抽把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8237.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8259.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
湊在一起然後用一個基本法三個字這樣子這種高於一般法令的這個概念來做這個作用法本身的事情這讓我們那時候民進黨一直主張說應該制定新住民權益保障法而不是制定基本法反正基本法這樣通過之後我現在很多一般很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8262.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8282.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
國人就在問一個最基本的問題這個要請市長回答就是這個新住民我們現在新住民基本法裡面以及未來我們所謂新住民發展署裡面所指的新住民如果因為我看他第二條的這些定義看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8284.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8308.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
它是一個取得台灣永久居住事實的各種不同的方式那如果跟取得國籍好像對取得國籍沒有任何的規定究竟取得國籍之後的這些所謂原本是新住民但是取得中華民國國籍之後這樣子的國民他是不是用這個新住民的基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8309.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8324.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
取得中華民國國籍好 謝謝我想跟委員報告照新住民基本條第二條它是擴大定義所以它把婚姻移民但是跟身分別之後轉化為取得國人身分那是兩個是不一樣完全無關對 因為也就是說取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8326.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8348.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
不管他現在有沒有取得身份證有沒有取得台灣的國籍取得身份證有要件 例如說要居留我知道 那是另外不管他 他今天已經取得中華民國國籍的身份他依然 我們依然把他定義為新住民照目前基本法的定義是這樣子目前基本法的定義是這樣子這個吼 這個就是我們現在覺得說最 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8351.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8371.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我個人認為這個新住民基本法在這個定義上面一些政客現在想要在這邊號召說我們這些外籍配偶大家來支持我然後訂立這樣子的新住民基本法事實上新住民基本法新住民這樣子的身份很多人他就類比他把原住民就拿來類比新住民認為說把原住民的保障那就新住民就類比保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8372.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8399.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
但是新住民的身份原住民是因為這塊土地上面的他們這個身份的取得是因為他們的血統所以他們比所有後來移民者早居住在這塊土地的適時的民族以及他們整個族群民族社會的聚集他所受到這個現在社會的這個壓迫跟歷史上面的壓迫讓我們大家予以保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8400.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8429.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
但是新住民的身份他能夠繼承嗎我因為我這一代是新住民所以我下一代還是新住民下一代新住民的下一代還是新住民原住民過時代還是原住民新住民可以過時代還是新住民嗎市長謝謝委員我想新住民他的定義應該是要融入成為我國國民因為新住民跟原住民不一樣新住民本身是一個過渡性他基本上就是一個過渡性我們立法的目的是為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8430.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8438.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我們給他差異性這個待遇的目的是為了解決他現在實質上的困境而不是因為他的身份給他標籤化 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8441.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8459.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
對不對所以我個人認為說在這個整個立法過程在這個思維上面有很大的問題這樣子的問題我們想像現在台灣社會已經沒有人在分本省人外省人我們自己也沒有人會問說那個人是本省人還是外省人都沒有這個省級的問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8460.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8484.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
假設當初也有外省政科在這裡說我們要成立一個外省人基本法我們要成立一個外省人的這個發展委員會那到今天為止台灣還在分本省人外省人我們成立新住民發展署我們最要避免的就是未來我們因為這個基本法設立不當導致未來這個新住民被標籤化 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8493.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8516.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這是應該我們要避免的所以這個我就先就這個新住民的基本法因為我們這個整個立法過程的粗糙讓我們這個我們作為司法法治委員會的成員幾乎沒有時間沒有機會可以在這裡面討論這個新住民基本法就在這邊花點時間來談我個人對於這個新住民基本法的一些看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8518.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8543.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
就今天的法令來講我覺得要通過其實因為新住民基本法已經通過了其實今天的這個有關這個組織法它其實都是依據新住民基本法裡面尤其是像看到第二條第二條它的內容幾乎就是就是按照新住民基本法裡面的一條的一款一款下去列相應的這些它的這些長理事項啦但是剛剛很多委員都提到就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8544.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8570.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
各個版本除了只有羅美玲委員的版本他很清楚的就是沒有相關的規定之外所有的民眾黨的版本國民黨委員的版本全部在第三款裡面設定的新住民國家考試之規劃執行督導講助全部都要由新住民發展組織這個新住民發展署來都變成他的執掌國家考試的規劃這個按照憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8573.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8588.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
按照憲法這個五權憲法既然是你們國民黨的生文發明的考試權就是獨立屬於考試權全部考試你現在可以說那我們土木工程考試以後就由這個工程會來辦我們這個相關的經濟類科考試以後由經濟部來辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8597.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8624.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以這一條的法令 今天如果要討論 倒是要逐條這一條有關 這個還 我不去談什麼未來他會不會加分 他會不會加分 他的子女會不會加分這個都不是重點 重點是憲法就考試權 它就是屬於考試院 屬於考選部的你在這裡用一個組織法 把這個考試的權 舉辦考試的權益把它移到這個 我們的內政部 這個真是荒謬到極點 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8626.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8655.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以這個我希望等一下進入這個如果今天要進入這個法案的討論的時候我希望在這一點上面這個是憲法的原則我希望說這部分能夠各黨派大家要自治這個部分不要把它不要為了黨派立場堅持這樣子違憲的條文 以上好 謝謝陳委員我們先處理會議時間上午會議進行至12點休息下午1點30分繼續開會我們接著請吳思耀委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8663.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8664.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
主席請次長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8670.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8697.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
大家辛苦了我想也要再一次清楚的說明民進黨我們對於新住民的各項權益我們一直希望能夠協助跨部會的來協助讓新住民成為國人的這個過渡階段各項的保障權益我們都盡可能的做好做滿讓他們能夠融入台灣社會也就是從新住民成為台灣郎 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8699.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8713.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
的這個過渡期間我們該做的政策全方面都進行而且是現在進行式所以在這一個身份過渡的期間我們要協助所有新住民的是要去去標籤化 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8714.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8737.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
而不是貼標籤化甚至是一次貼上一輩子的標籤這是民進黨反對的思維所以說當初在新住民權益保障法是民進黨的主張但是藍白是多數他們還是強硬的用新住民基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8738.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8760.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
用一個基本法的高位階來強行通過了但今天我們面對的問題就是一步錯步步錯問題來了好我們看到這一頁民進黨當初主張的作用法權益保障法是優於一個只有宣誓效用的基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8761.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8786.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
民進黨的主張因為是作用法可以快狠準快速的制定各項政策而且執行而且因為是一個作用法我們不會產生跟既有法律漢格的問題更重要的嚴肅的課題是當初我們拆了地雷我們守住了一個可能危及國家安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8787.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8810.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
的立法當時被我們發現藍白委員所提的甚至要讓陸配穿上新住民的身份外衣而鬆綁現在陸委會所進行的各項管制也就是陸配極有可能轉換的身份成為新住民的話他就可以入籍年限 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8811.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8837.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
極有可能達到六變四殊途同歸修不同的法但是達到這樣子的政治目的所以這背後的國安危機我們當然要戒慎恐懼要防要反制所以說我們的政策立場我要再一次的再討論新住民發展署的這個時候再次清楚的說明下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8838.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8865.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
在野党的委员用一个基本法固然提高了法的未接法的地位但是它却产生了副作用架空了用一个三级的单位会架空二级机关陆委会你看这个法律的关系里头用一个高未接的基本法它就会凌驾了两岸人民关系条例以及港澳人民关系条例这个是法理面下页 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8867.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8894.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
在實體面現在65%左右是陸配港澳配偶嘛對不對市長所謂的不管是越南啦印尼這些為大宗的新住民大概只佔35%的比例但是呢如果適用了基本法而且今天我們要一步錯步步錯也讓他成立了新住民發展署的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8896.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8924.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
選擇不明跌床駕屋百分之六十五的陸委會的陸配港澳配偶現在是陸委會來做各項服務跟管理輔導對不對那今天成立了新住民發展署請問次長這些陸配跟港澳配偶的所有的服務作業誰做謝謝委員我想那個不管是港澳的或者是陸配的規定還是要依照兩岸條例的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8925.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8953.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
對 但是新住民基本法的定義就很清楚啦新住民 including港澳跟陸配啊所以是不是就發生了適用法律的漢格跟現行你會用一個錯誤的法律概念跟框架讓一個三級機關架空了二級機關陸委會是不是有這樣子的疑慮是 委員這就是會有法律的未接特別法跟一般法或基本法的沒有錯 好 我們看下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8954.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8964.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我們來講對新住民的照顧民進黨執政我們努力做更好做更多但是為了成立一個新機關將會 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8968.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8993.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
產生了實質的困難而且我更要說他很恐怕是虛有其表我這邊列出來的所有的從生活輔導醫療從就業就學教育文化人身安全保障各項權益所有的執行政策的執行是不是已經散列在各個政府部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8994.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9017.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
是的 跟委員報告 其實委員所爐列的這些本來就是目前我們的分工各部會分工就以今天要審的發展署的組織法裡頭的第二條的所有的在野黨委員的十一項也是即便你今天成立了這個署你這些業務是不是還是回到這些部會執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9018.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9041.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
是的跟委員報告其實我們目前召開期制會就是就這些業務依照基本法的內容到底跟其他部會是不是有些要再調整那這樣成立一個新的發展署可是業務是各部會在做這不是很怪嗎所以我們新的發展署也不可能涵蓋其他部會的業務好我們看下一頁確實需要整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9042.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9056.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
如果說我們需要整合其實現在已經有內政部移民署在進行中而且行政院特別照顧新住民在行政院成立了新住民事務協調匯報就是有一個跨部會的協調機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9061.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9081.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
院長著急的喔然後來讓各部會對於新住民的服務照顧權益保障能夠具體明確的分工不會彼此打架不會彼此有漢格所以如果成立一個新住民發展署我剛剛已經說了即便有一個新的單位整合的工作現在跨部會的協調彙報已經在做更高位 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9090.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9103.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
然後呢執行的政策的各個面向也是交給其他部會去執行那我們成立這個署不是須有其表嗎不是為了成立而成立嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9104.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9126.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
最後下一頁因為時間到了我同樣同意剛剛幾位民進黨委員提出來的主張第二條的第三款有關於要考試特殊的權利我們認為要回到考試權的平等的原則而且不要再次違憲侵犯了考試院的權利下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9127.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9148.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
在第二條的第八款有關於我不曉得國民黨民眾黨的委員來加了一個新住民廣播電視之規劃是不是有要成立新住民電視台之類的規劃我想這個又是一個更嚴峻的耗費人力物力他需要更長遠的規劃所以我同意羅美玲委員的版本以媒體來取代廣播電視在這個條款的內容我最後利用30秒的時間我要清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9158.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9179.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
再次呈現新住民在台灣我們努力讓他從新住民成為台灣郎的過渡期限各項的權益民進黨努力做到這是過去沒有做到的包括新住民可以參選立法委員包括學校開設的母語教學課程只要一個新住民選修就給開課 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9180.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9197.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
政府政策也已經做到多國語言的翻譯跟服務而且沒有健保的新住民我們給與跟國人一樣享有產檢的補助還有新住民的就學是給予外加名額的協助還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9197.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9226.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
各項技術考科都可以申請多語言的服務包括就業訓練不需要有任何的費用包括新住民的子女另外國家編列獎學金來幫助他們而且台灣22個縣市都有新住民的家庭服務中心以及新住民的子女如果要回台灣就學教育部已經有旋轉教育免費的方式來協助最後一個新住民在移民署的考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9227.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9249.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
也有多語類科現在進行是正在進行換言之還沒有成立一個新住民的發展署各項的業務對於新住民的權益保障服務措施我們努力做好做滿所以大家可以好好繼續的深思熟慮如果成立了一個新的組織確實需有起表 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9249.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9269.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
又會發生跟其他部會的漢格用一個三級機關凌駕二級機關的權限真的值得大家深思再深思謝謝次長 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳委員那我們下一位請李博義委員發言那在李博義委員發言完畢之後我們依照先前宣告休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9285.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9298.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
其實今天是一個很荒謬的會議這個荒謬的會議,我從內政委員會在上個會期的審議新住民權益保障法到 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9301.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9315.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
後來進入政黨協商以後一次的協商三個小時的內容其實大家都簽名了法案名稱就是要做新住民權益保障法新住民權益保障法 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9316.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9337.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
將中配納入新住民的定義也就是說你有本國籍的配偶然後你來到台灣以後你就具有新住民的身份這佔了有65%的中國配偶會變成新住民的定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9338.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9362.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
當然我們希望進入台灣之後,進入生活之後他取得台灣國民身份證之後,他就是台灣人嘛那這個新住民基本法的第二條裡面又把它匡列進為他永遠是新住民這個我覺得萬萬不可啊但是還是在藍白的強行表決之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9363.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9381.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那在藍白撤遷協商結論並且把這一個法正式改為新住民基本法那這個基本法之後呢我們內政部就要開始來研擬這個組織法嘛那但是目前內政部還沒有研擬出來的原因是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9382.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9394.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
當然還要涉及到其他各部會的這些問題那你到底跟陸委會等等的這些新住民的或者是這些陸配的相關的權益要由誰來幫他們協助所以今天的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9398.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9427.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
今天的這個組織法我是覺得很奇怪啦但是隨著這個組織法隨著這個新住民基本法確立了之後呢好現在組織法又來了把基本法的內容又搬來這裡再來討論一次到底他的身份是不是一輩子來 市長市長我取得台灣身份證之後我還是新住民嗎如果這個依照這個新住民的定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9428.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9431.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那他這個新住民的身份要跟他多久 市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9432.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9457.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
依照新住民這個基本法來回應陳如瑋上面所秀的其實基本法第二條就已經把它明定了就是婚姻移民、子女等等的其實這些都已經涵蓋那其實我們在這個內容子女也涵蓋他一輩子就是新住民所以我還是希望說榮祿取得國人身份之後就是我中華民國的國民可是依照這個基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9458.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9475.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
他只要是新住民所生的這些小孩他一輩子都叫新住民對不對我是覺得不應該標籤化對,這個就是今天這部法令的很荒謬的地方啦我相信有很多現在可能念到國中、高中甚至大學 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9477.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9497.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
台灣人啊,然後你卻用這個法令來規範他是新住民所以我覺得這個必須要提出來那這個其實就是沒有經過完整的討論並且推翻政黨協商把新住民權益保障法一旦他取得,權益保障的意思一旦他取得台灣身份證的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9498.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9518.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
他就確確實實就台灣國民了嘛那你還稱他為新住民這第二條定義就是非常有問題的那今天我提出來的這一個齁除了這個組織法裡面除了這個身份之外裡面還藏了很多貓膩包含保險包含考試這些都非常非常需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9520.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9547.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
讓社會來檢視的問題啦 我跟你說根據2024年這個台灣外配的這個生活調查指標裡面98.1%的新住民他其實是有健保的喔73.8%他是有勞保的喔那你現在又在這個第二條裡面要規定這些社會保險我不知道他規定什麼耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9549.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9574.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
已經98%有健保了欸他如果入籍台灣之後他也會有健保我們要保障的是他在還沒有取得身份證這一段時間的這個權益嘛那有沒有在做衛福部有在做啊這個內政部有在做啊每一個部會都有在做啊弄這一個這個這個基本法這基本法對不起真的是很奇怪好最嚴重的考試請問一下齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9581.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9593.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
人事總長在這裡,請問一下考試公務人員要不要有台灣國籍?一定來啊新住民國家考試要怎麼做? |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9595.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9615.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
阿現在的按照目前的規定是要期的國籍以後要10年阿沒有阿我現在新住民國家考試要入法阿怎麼弄阿你就是侵犯到憲法阿那是科技營業管阿所以侵犯憲法嘛一個組織法可以侵犯憲法欸多嚴重好 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9616.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9641.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
他要另外立一個國家考試之外呢台灣人咧我們原本大家平等的考試制度在哪裡考試院有沒有來來考選部來中華民國最珍貴的地方在於我們的法治我們的法治立足在一個平等 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9642.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9665.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那這一個平等的考試如果有這個新住民國家考試來你回應一下你有沒有辦法做法委員那個公務人員考試法開宗明義就說公開競爭為之啊國家考試以公開競爭為之啊所以也是也是違法的嗎好謝謝好謝謝那我們休息五分鐘是 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9678.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9678.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
蘑菇 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9705.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9707.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我知道我已經被掛牆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9975.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10001.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
好 我們繼續開會接下來我們請羅志強委員發言主席有請內政部麻煩次長委員好次長好今天我們要審議新住民發展署組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10003.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10023.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那這部法案看起來行政機關立法委員都是站同方向那我個人也是但我還是要提醒就是說其實新住民現在還面臨非常多的一些挑戰語言資訊落差然後公共資源難以取得的這些障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10024.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10048.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
它造成許多新住民在申請補助、醫療照護、子女就學等生活層面的其實還是有蠻多的不便利所以這個部分也是為什麼我們希望能夠成立就是有新住民發展署能夠來去好好的來照顧我們現在的新住民的權益這是我想今天為什麼大家齊聚一堂的一個最重要的一個目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10049.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10066.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那除此之外新住民在勞動市場上的不平等待遇其實也經常沒有獲得充分的處理那現在很多新住民的女性是集中在照護清潔這些產業那有些的產業相對比較薪水比較低 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10067.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10084.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那也缺乏升遷機會跟在職培訓的資源那更重要的是新住民的子女在教育體系當中現在還是存在一些包括同才歧視文化邊緣化以及語言資源不足的問題這些都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10085.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10111.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
現狀上其實還仍然存在問題也就是說因此如果沒有辦法更系統性的文化教育推廣跟家庭輔導政策的話那麼可能會造成這個弱勢的循環那對我們新住民的群體來說其實是非常不公平所以為什麼今天我覺得我很贊成就是我們要有一個專責的機構能夠好好的來照應現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10113.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10125.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
新住民廣泛的一些需要我想請教一下就是次長你知道目前新住民家庭的平均月收入嗎根據移民署的調查新住民家庭狀況新住民家庭結構以核心家戶為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10137.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10161.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那家庭生活費用主要來源是新住民本人跟配偶的工作或營業收入因此新住民家庭目前平均的收入每月平均收入是62,150元那相較於一般家庭平均月收是117,250元所以看起來新住民家庭的薪資相對是比較弱勢一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10162.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10180.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那另外我想請教說根據移民署112年新住民的生活需求調查報告新住民在台生活困擾的前三名我不知道兩個單位您知道嗎我們也請移民署上來好了移民署 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10188.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10192.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我記得有就業工作問題還有經濟收入的問題跟健康問題長照還有就業還有一個就是我想請教長照就業跟語言三個主要是最大的一個差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10211.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10238.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
你們上面我的資料顯示是112年的顯示是經濟問題 健康問題跟工作問題但是確實不管是長照還有包括語言的部分也都現在新住民比較多的一些想要解決的一些難題那另外想要請教新住民對於生活照顧服務措施的需求最在意的是前三名是哪前三名三位首長知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10240.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10244.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
對生活照顧服務的需求前三名 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10245.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10271.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我來跟您說啦13.5%是保障就業權益12.1%是提供生活救助措施9.5%是協助子女就學這是前三名那麼另外新住民在台生活權益出現困擾的前三名是什麼我也跟三位首長說分別是44%新住民各項社福補助申請資格辦法問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10274.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10291.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
32%在台居留證申請問題23%個人財務稅務跟繼承問題其中我覺得我比較關切的是說有40%是將近一半的新住民對於各項社福申請補助的申請資格跟辦法都感到困擾我不知道三位首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10292.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10317.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
為什麼會造成這樣的一個讓新住民感到困擾的一個狀況呢能不能說明一下先請移民署好了這邊就我所知道的就是說其實我們各我們移民署各縣市都有服務站那服務站的部分就他們所謂的譬如說是在創業這個部分我們其實會協助他們寫一些專案的計畫那當然我們一些新住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10319.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10327.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
到我們國內 其實他的語文表達能力可能不是那麼的好所以我們服務站有專門的人替他們寫一些所謂的這個創業的這個計畫那至於其他證照的這個協助跟補助這個部分其實我們也會透過我們所謂的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10339.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10357.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這個所謂的地區的這個家庭網絡會議來協助他們譬如說我們會結合我們的一些行動列車來協助他們譬如說一些汽機車的一個考照一些相關的一個協助這個是我們目前有在做的非常謝謝其實為什麼把這些問題攤出來給大家看也是我今天強調的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10362.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10377.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
基本上我覺得為什麼我們需要一個新住民發展署其實現在新住民的問題真的很多啦我們有一個專職的機構全心來服務就是應該的以上 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝我們下一位請徐宇忠委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10390.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10396.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
謝主席 我們請吳次長還有移民署林署長以及人事總署的蘇仁市長蘇市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10407.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10421.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
請教一下次長跟署長就是我們的新住民基本法其實在去年的8月12號就已經正式公告了那這一步法我想是為了保護新住民而且對於我們的多元的族群跟包容社會的一個承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10422.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10446.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那其實從這個通過公告到現在其實已經快要大概差不多十個月的時候但是目前都還沒有定定施行的日期甚至連專責的機構目前也都還成立的時間都還沒有下文那請教一下次長因為我知道在去年七月我們這個法一完成三讀之後其實當時的政務委員就是史哲 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10447.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10462.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
他已經就已經有召開一次的會議那針對這個部分的話他也說要落實新住民基本法第四條所定的應該這個設置新住民事務專責的中央三級行政機關並於適當的時機承包行政院的這個審議那請問次長當時負責這個的政務委員使者因為他現在已經這個高升離職去當這個高鐵的這個董事長坐領高薪那 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10476.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10485.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
針對他所帶領的之前這個政務委員擔任的這個負責的部分是不是又要再重來一次新的政務委員接了之後是不是又要重開一次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10487.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10508.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
謝謝委員 我想這個去年在史哲政委的邀集下其實我們也有跟行政院都有報告我們未來成立三級機關的一個進度所以後來後續的部分是由我們這邊成立那個我們的所以史哲 當時政務委員他只主持過那麼一次就是七月的時候召開的是嗎應該有兩次 不止 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10509.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10529.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
在今年的5月27號有第三次的一個召開也是有史哲這個政務委員召開的嗎是的所以說光這個他召開的這個會議就三次那你們剛剛我看你們的報告裡面寫總共有召開過七次是有包含這三次嗎沒有跟委員包含那七次是我們內政部跟移民署 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10530.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10548.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我們針對要成立三級集團所以表示說已經有跨部會的這個院會來去協調那為什麼到現在還沒有辦法成立這個專責機構的這個施行的日期我想就是因為基本法裡面的內容的條文的部分第一個我們要先確認他的未來的業務執掌 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10549.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10576 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
所以有包括剛剛文化、教育、勞動跟衛福部的分工那有些的寄存業務是在他們各個部會那我們就是我們開會就是要哪些業務是收整到有我們的成立的新的那如果像這樣講的話其實包含鎮院的已經開了十次會那都還沒有這個嗎還沒有這個討論好誰負責的跟誰分工的這相關的業務嗎那我跟委員報告其實我們自己的內部的部分就是未來新竹民發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10576.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10591.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我們就是已經大概規劃完就是4個組12個課然後需求人員100人那其他部會因為我在內政委會我很清楚但是請問其他的部會其他部會就是來參加我這邊的那個小組會議然後來那好請問什麼時候可以施行 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10593.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10622.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那我想這個部分相關後續我們都有跟行政院做報告對 那什麼時候呢整個組織法 因為拖了快一年了嘛一點進展都沒有連這個籌備小組感覺上都沒有太大的進展不會 其實我們幾乎進展都已經差不多那接下來就是 差不多了嗎行政院如果說一旦事情受那預估大概什麼時候 你們已經送行政院了嗎我們都有把資料都有先跟行政院報告過那大概什麼時候呢這個可能還要問行政院那行政院今天有人來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10624.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10645.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
還要問行政院 也就是說你們都送給行政院但是行政院還沒決定嗎我們都有跟行政院討論我們就正在討論然後包括所謂這個新住民發展署的組織法的內容那這樣子每個部會如果到這樣大家都推來推去你主管什麼我主管什麼你負責什麼我負責什麼然後都不知道最後再推給行政院那請問這部法大概什麼時候可以正式施行 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10645.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10668.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我跟你講其實我們沒有推啦我們就是第一個我們把我們分內的事情都先做好了那也就是說內政部的部分沒問題了是其他部位的問題囉我們其他部位的話其實有一些是業務收整跟做實施而已那聽你這樣講應該很快囉因為內政部已經好了其他部位都在收尾所以應該很快會好了那我想照顧新住民的權益這個是我們應該做的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10669.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10692.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我想其實我們有一個對照組我們可以看到運動部的組織法在114年1月24號才公告但卓榮泰院長在短短的數個月之間就高調的宣布9月9號要正式掛牌成立運動部籌備的進度令人十分吃驚但是相較於新住民的基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10693.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10716.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
照理說運動部是行政院的二級機關啊它所牽扯的這個範圍可能更大需要了解的事情可能更多而且新宿民專責機構不過就是三級機構照理說也應該比較容易設立啊那為什麼是會高層如果有意就快馬加鞭喔那如果沒有關注就無限的拖延我甚至懷疑喔就是說如果啦如果這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10717.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10737.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這個我們的新住民基本法如果可以對大罷免這個加溫的話也許早就通過了就是因為它對大罷免沒什麼影響甚至是負面的影響所以到現在可能都沒通過的原因是在這裡然後另外再請教您一下就是行政院網站也把新住民基本法列為重要的政策那我請教一下次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10738.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10757.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
常常說要照顧新住民把新住民當作我們的家人可是現在看到好像只是把新住民當成宣傳工具根本就沒有要落實基本的誠意那也請內政部跟人事總處清楚的回答新住民基本法的實施日期為什麼還沒辦法決定是誰在擋剛剛次長已經回答過那請這個人事總長 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10763.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10791.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
謝謝委員我想新住民的一個潛意照顧是大家都有共識事實上也沒有在擋因為在整個審議的程序我們必須要按照一定的一個程序來讓大家就按照整個程序當社會法制委員會指出法通過以後你就記得一步一步來我們一定支持因為對新住民潛意的保障大家都有很高的共識那任市長既然說沒有在擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10792.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10815.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那就是在拖囉也不是在拖事實上很重要就是說之前在基本法第三條裡面所有這些新住民潛意的一些業務的推動還是回歸到主管機關譬如像衛福部相關部會嘛那現在內政部在做的就是要把這些延來各個部會主管的再把它細緻化 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10816.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10840.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
因為既然成立這個新的機關我們就是要做得比以前更好嘛我知道你們都非常的細緻啊所以就到現在都已經將近快一年了那其實看起來的話我覺得這種事實上是已經涉及行政太多所以還是希望各部會大家要共同的加快腳步為我們的新住民爭取權益謝謝好 謝謝韋好 謝謝下一位我們請翁曉琳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10852.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10854.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
主席好有請次長麻煩次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10858.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10861.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
市長好我想這個因為最近的新聞媒體都有報導閃兵事件頻傳那麼尤其是這個王大陸等等27人的閃兵案其實在本週一的時候就已經起訴了27個人那麼對於這樣的一個問題其實我想社會大眾都很關注那麼到底這個現在去扶替代役他的在整個的審驗的過程當中有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10886.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10906.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
真的有不實的這個狀況或是有包庇這個想要服替去申請免除替代役的人的這樣的一個情況那麼簡單來說就是其實蠻多現在要服替代役年齡的這些青年他們都想方設法想要逃兵那麼對於就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10907.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10930.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
內政部除了說目前主動清查還有檢討體會判定等等標準之外對於就是防範逃兵役的這件事情逃服替代役的這個事情內政部目前有沒有就是有沒有一些新的計畫要怎麼樣來防止這個異難來逃避服替代役 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10935.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10954.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
福併醫是國民應經義務內政部的醫生司就這個部分後續如果有修正相關的體會確認標準我們都會跟國防部來做確認這次的事件其實也凸顯了如果說有一些需要再做補強補全的我們都會跟國防部來做一個討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10955.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10969.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
好我想內政部這邊可能還是要積極一些因為現在看到這個Line Today上面其實也有發起投票然後也說這個就是由民間自發認為說有些方案基本是可以防止這個防止 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10972.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10988.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個逃避服替代役的這樣子的一個這樣的一些做法那我希望就是說內政部呢其實應該要更積極的去跟國防部或是你們自己內部也要提出一個相關的檢討方案否則的話我們看到有些人他就會鑽法律漏洞或是利用這個提報不實的醫檢的報告來 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10997.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11018.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
逃避替代役所以這個部分希望次長能夠多關注這個議題那接下來就是說有關於替代役管理其實也出了問題因為我們有看到新聞上面有在講就是有役男有爆料在成功嶺上面甚至可能有一些替代役的役男在軍中 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11020.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11040.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
在營內持有或吸食毒品或者是還強迫同梯的這個一南吸食的這些新聞那麼我們知道其實依照毒品防害防治條例第33條的規定其實對於特定人員的尿液要進行採驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11043.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11068.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那麼在這邊要請教就是說對於這首入伍時候的這些替代役藝男會實施相關的尿液檢驗嗎因為如果說在替代役藝男在營中然後發生這些問題那目前是怎麼樣的管理方式而且就是他們在服役的過程當中有沒有就是常常會去進行一些尿檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11069.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11089.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
是我想跟委員報告因為剛好這個議政並不是我這邊執掌不過就我理解啦應該是個案的問題應該在進來營區的時候在營區是並沒有說有其他的不法的情況那你委員講的部分是不是我容我會後我再請我們議政室來檢討一下說我們未來有什麼方法去做一個防度 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11090.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11105.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
好的我想這個議題基本上因為在網路上面其實有曾經有服過替代役的應難其實又相關的這個反應就是說在整個的替代役的這個他們的這個統一管理的營區裡面可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11106.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11117.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
會有發生這樣的一個情況那麼如果說是這個還強迫其他同梯的這個夥伴還要去吸食一些相關毒品的話那我認為說這個其實是嚴重的問題而且呢就是現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11121.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11126.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
既然我們在毒品防害防治條例裡面其實有規定針對一些特定的人員他必須要採取實施尿液的檢測所以未來像是替代液的應難有沒有這個必要可能就是例行性的可能每隔一段時間去進行尿液檢測來確保說他們基本上不會在營區裡面有發生有這種吸毒的狀況我覺得這個也是有必要的那就請次長可能這部分再行研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11148.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11152.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
還有就是有關於總統府因為他上任之後沒多久他基本上就宣布了幾個委員會雖然這個委員會可能跳脫組織法裡面的規定但是像全社會防衛任性委員會還有接下來我們談的城鎮任性委員會等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11169.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11197.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
其實他們基本上都常常都會去辦一些民安演習啊這個所謂的這些防護的演習可是我們曉得不管是這個全社會防衛任性委員會舉辦的實地演練或者是城鎮任性的演習其實看起來現在軍方都沒有加入都沒有參與這個是什麼原因為什麼都強調軍方不參與不依賴國軍的支援這樣子的做法是對的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11200.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11214.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
其實我們的全社會防外任性的部分其實跟軍方的演習是並不相干啦只是說我們要了解說台灣未來發生一些緊急危難危害的時候我們對於國人的部分的全民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11215.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11231.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
的防衛 例如說有要防災室訓練還有緊急救護還有一些做一個處理我想跟國軍那個是不一樣的我在這邊我要提醒市長的就是說因為在我們的災害防救法裡面的規定基本上國軍是有一定的角色的 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11232.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11256.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那在我們的民防法裡面其實也是說民防工作要與軍事情務相關的話他們是由中央主管局 內政部跟國防部一起督導執行也就是說我們今天辦理這些演習基本上不能夠說只是由民間或是由內政部去督導它未來它發生緊急事故的時候一定是國軍也會加入 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11257.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11263.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
所以未來在你們的這個相關的演習舉辦的時候實際演練那本席是認為基本上還是要能夠主動的聯繫國軍大家一起來辦這樣才有意義否則的話真的發生什麼情況的話變成是兩邊沒有辦法系統沒有辦法聯繫然後也忽略了國軍資源與國軍資源的這個整合是非常可惜的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11283.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11307.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
因為在我們現行法裡面就已經有清楚的規定所以呢這個本席這邊也提出來就希望就是內政部也能夠去檢討未來相關演習的時候應該要結合國軍一起來舉辦這樣才會更有意義還能夠發揮實際的功效好不好好 那就這樣那就提供給次長做參考謝謝 下一位我們請王宏威委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11317.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11324.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好謝謝主席我請一下我們內政部次長還有我們人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11332.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11355.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
市長 任市長我想請問一下就是我們在整個的新住民發展署成立的過程裡面之前一直聽到說有關於滿額的問題就是我們的中央政府三級機關有70個的一個上限所以也一直都有一些協調這個負責協調的政務委員主要是誰 是哪一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11361.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11386.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
人事長是組織面還是顏額面就是在顏額面顏額面是沒有現在上次三級機關我們的上限是70調整為71那我想請問一下之前的政務委員史哲有沒有去協調這方面的就是我們有關於顏額顏額的這個已經滿額的問題有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11389.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11414.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
他是組三級機關的上線政委有去行政院內部去協調嗎史哲負責協調嘛 對不對所以我真的覺得我們一直等來等去等這個新住民發展署其實很多的新住民朋友已經等得非常不耐煩了可是等來等去呢那你可以看到我們的政務委員史哲去做了高鐵的董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11415.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11428.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那我們希望說那麼現在能夠加快腳步因為事實上在去年底的時候我們已經把這個原額數已經提高了嘛所以我想請問一下次長我們這個我們的新住民這個發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11434.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11448.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
在我們的中央政府中央行政機關組織基準法已經修正通過之後應該可以加快腳步那請問一下到底什麼時候能夠實施那我也想請問因為你們114年度有沒有編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11452.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11467.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
跟委員報告我們有先行估算如果說今年成立的話我們會用走追加減我們明年的都已經在籌編概算中所以呢也就是說是可以在115年度來編列預算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11468.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11491.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我們正在籌編好 正在籌編所以我為什麼要去問預算因為你們籌編才代表會有可能落實因為如果你根本沒有編列預算的話說也是白說而已我想請問一下我們這個發展署我們的原額會有多少我們主要的組織架構是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11492.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11515.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我想這邊跟委員報告 那我們這一次我們未來的組織架構 業務執掌 業務緣額還有例如辦公處所跟預算那我們都是follow整個新住民基本法的內容去做處理那我們目前初步規劃是4個組12個然後正式緣額100人那這100人裡面其實大概會有將近50個是由移民署來做移撥那另外的話是請證緣額 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11517.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11534.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
主要是100多位,那會不會移民署有一些移撥到新住民發展署?目前移民署本來就是新住民的業務,那這些人就會隨從移撥到新住民發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11535.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11552.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那請問一下你剛才講的預算的編列是針對新住民發展署的預算編列而不是籌備處的編列吧當然是以署的方式來做編列那你們現在你們的概算大概這個金額會是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11553.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11569.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
跟委員報告以今年來講的話如果今年可以成立之後我們預估接下來的下一個半年的部分大概是我們約需大概要一億八千萬那其中也包括新增人事費那未來明年的一一五年的籌編概算我們現在目前年度預算規模大概抓七億 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11570.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11598.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
就是以115年度是7億 是不是對 是的 所以按照這個你們的預算編列的方式呢就今年下半年度可以成立就是成立籌備處 是不是然後正式的掛牌 按照你們現在的這樣子估算正式的掛牌運作大概是什麼時間這個我目前還無法估算如果今年只要有成立 那應該就是會有走掛牌大概是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11598.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11622.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
所以你就籌備出掛牌而已啊因為不是沒有我們的目標啦我們目標整個因為去年通過之後我們對於發展署所以我們才會說如果說在今年就成立的話我們就是今年下半年就要掛牌今年下半年可以正式的掛牌那因為我們覺得就是說我們一直希望說有一個具體的進度不要那個我們新住民基本法通過之後遲遲一直等不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11623.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11636.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
然後預算也等不到 籌備處也等不到所以比較明確今年下半年度是可以讓它正式掛牌政協跟委員報告就是施行法要一施行我們接下來包括組織法包括這個成立我們都會接續 照程序來 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11637.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11659.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
好 我們在我們的立法院裡面我們也會盡量能夠希望趕快我們這個相關的組織法趕快通過啦能夠 其實我會希望說如果我們朝野大家協商因為我們會進入竹條嘛那其實如果說你們在一些業務上面能夠盡量大家能夠達成一些協議的話那麼這個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11662.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11670.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
這個組織法的修正就不需要在立法院還要有什麼一個月的冷凍期就是變成說其實會拖延立法所以我們還是會希望能夠再做加速那另外剛才也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11678.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11696.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
也有這個委員談到就是我們的這個新住民的這個家庭啊那麼因為已經超過百萬人但是呢你如果看這些像求職網站他們做的一些調查也就是其實我們因為新住民有有些甚至有些被標籤化 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11698.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11709.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
所以他們能做的一些工作,當然不管是製造業,或者餐飲服務業,或者是清潔、江庭幫傭事實上他們的薪資都有比較偏低的問題而且有根據去計算,事實上大概有六成事實上他的收入是沒有達四萬元的 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11723.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11751.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那所以低薪的問題確實在新住民家庭成為他們一個急需解決的問題所以我當然我們希望說能夠讓這個新住民這個發展署能夠及時快速的成立但是即使是在沒有成立之前也希望能夠透過一些輔導的方式加強的方式能讓我們新住民不管是在他的就業的機會或者他的薪資的部分能夠提 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11752.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11757.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
有很多的改善 或者能夠提升 好不好這個我們會配合勞動部的一個處理 我們都會來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11760.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11785.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
不過這個如果我們這個新住民發展署成立之後這些有關勞動部分還是推給勞動部嗎沒有 其實目前既有業務有一些就是分工是在勞動部那我們如果說成立新住民發展署那我想我們也有一個科會來負責這個業務對 就應該是由我們這個新住民發展署來負責啦不要就是又推給那個勞動部我們都是分工啦好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11787.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11806.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
好謝謝我們下一位請莊瑞雄委員發言另外我們修正先前的宣告因為上午的會議我們進行至所有登記發言委員詢答完畢後再散會討論事項法案另定其處理好我們請莊瑞雄委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11813.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11823.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
謝謝主席有請我們內政部我們吳次長還有移民署林署長陸委會大陸委員會我們的法政處周處長市長回來請教了我今天早上聽了以後大家講那個整個新住民人數你們的統計現在是多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11836.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11846.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
新住民人數目前如果是適用照新住民基本法第120條婚姻移民新住民子女跟專業及技術移民大概加起來大概130萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11850.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11868.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那我想行政院這一次沒有院版那可能就是你們有所疑慮本席的看法是認為說這個整個新住民發展署的一個成立是代表我們台灣多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11869.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11889.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
共榮的一個里程碑啦,那也就代表說你剛剛提到的這樣130萬這個新竹民莊嚴的一個承諾,你說你們沒煩惱,政府只有你們的課稅,是在講這個但是業務的部分,我就有一點點意見啦,你像譬如說在整個基本法裡面,你的陸配那也算啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11890.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11907.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
也算啦那可是我今天看你們陸委會你們提出來的講法你們又是講說這個新住民事務主管機關成立以後不涉及陸委會業務的調整也沒有業務需要移撥到新住民事務主管機關你們是這樣講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11908.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11924.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
那這個我又有點疑慮啦你現在涉及到陸配如果說這個兩岸之間的一個往返當然大家現在講到的是說陸委會委託海基會行使公權力嘛 委託他們行使公權力那好啦 那新的機關成立以後那這一塊你們新的事有辦法去處理到時候還是跟海基會在處理那怎麼會你們今天陸委會的報告講說跟我們無色真的無色嗎 請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11939.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11963.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
委員好 首先兩點 第一點陸委會的組織設立一直他是做政策協調政策擬定那我現在講的是你們當然是政策的協調跟規劃那我現在講的實際上涉及到兩岸人民之間的往返裡面他裡面有很多的有涉及到新住民嘛那涉及到新住民的話你說這一些以目前來講的話就是我們陸委會委託海基位來行使這個公權力來幫忙嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11968.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11982.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那新的署成立以後我說這一個業務你怎麼辦報告委員我們今天委託海基會處理的很多是屬於一些公權力以外的服務事項我是針對陸配的部分是嘛 就服務嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11983.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12011.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
是服務事項那針對陸配本身在法律上應有的權益還是會回歸到原來移民署或將來成立的新住民發展署他們來處理譬如說身份的取得入出境的許可這都是跟公權力有關的事項不會由海基會來發那當然啦那我說那服務的呢你本來一個機關成立以後啊你說很多涉及到人民的福利啊保障啊那這些原來就是新設立的機關屬於他的執掌啦可是陸委會這塊你也是一樣在做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12013.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12022.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
新的署成立以後 涉及到兩岸的新的署還是沒辦法去做我們對於陸配的關懷跟服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12024.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12045.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
一樣還是會持續在做我知道啦 但你會重疊啦到最後就不是新設立的新移民發展署不管名字叫做什麼新住民的發展署如果成立以後到最後不是新住民發展署委託海基會來行使公權力嗎還是陸委會在行使公權力啊委託海基會行使公權力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12047.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12054.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
這部分有沒有這樣的問題基本上現在啊現在如果是以移民署在做的話現在當然還好啦新的機關成立以後啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12059.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12085.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
對於這一塊我們是認為說不會有太大的問題就因為不涉及到公權力的問題的話我們還是可以請海基會繼續來做都是服務啦都是服務如果沒有涉及到行使公權力的話那機關就不是義務就不是責任的問題啦照顧常常都後面因為你叫做公權力你看他會說都沒有裡面還沒講清楚啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12089.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12102.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
這個就是沒有院版裡面還沒有提出來的地方之一這個再好好想一想啦好不好再好好想一想啦那另外喔就是我其實我以台東為例啦那個處長你請回啦新住民人口現在差不多超過2%啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12103.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12120.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
其實對他們來看,我們每天碰到的笑容、汗水,其實這早就已經深深的融入這一塊土地了。他們其實已經都不是過客了,都算我們要當家人來看待嘛。但是社會上擔心,尤其我們今天在委員會裡面,我相信這一題, |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12122.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12143.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
這個草案它倒不是政黨之間大家攻防的問題 倒不是本席倒認為是說 你是如果說多一個署那你那個對我新住民來講的話 我要多一大堆表格或者說 啊你給一個機關變成一個衙門而已啊會不會多一份的一個折騰啊就是說機關的設立以後 我期待啊 要有溫度啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12145.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12158.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
這真的就是要有溫度啦 阿沒有喔那兩瓶瓶喔 只是流程的一個堆疊而已啊所以我要請教就是說跨部會的分工齁 到最後啊你這不能小拍桿 你知不知道很怕到要 齁 啊 這 讓人覺得說在這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12163.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12183.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
踢皮球啦所以你如何去精準的界定誰該負責些什麼如何去讓它變成有效率跟有效能的一個協調平台我認為這個就很重要了這個面對這樣的一個廣泛的一個跨部會的性質大家都非常清楚啊你不要這樣去劃分啊避免讓新住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12184.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12197.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
繞圈圈 我覺得這個就 我先講在前頭啦就是我們這整個草案裡面 就是這幾個問題啦另外你說說 新的署跟移民署這個 移民署長你就必須要去看待這個問題啦你也不能分別先做 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12200.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12214.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
你也不能說這樣不明不白你像譬如說以目前你移民署你負責路徑 拘留 規劃這現在你移民署的嘛可是你新署以後又著引於權益的保障跟社會的一個融入要怎麼簽 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12216.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12231.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
你說業務沒有移波 你不可能啊那所以說呢 你在現實中新住民來台初期他最需要的其實是什麼 語言嘛 語言的訓練嘛那你說生活適應啊 或者說要找工作 就業的一個媒合那請問啊 這些業務到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12233.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12242.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
你是你移民署 你現在你扶著板 正經就好那個證照就好了然後新的 新的成立了一個署那你來總體的輔導都要包開還是你們兩邊再這樣去重疊請教社長 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12248.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12264.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
這個部分是不是請署長因為我之前在開會的時候也是針對哪一些是要業務移撥哪一些是留在移民署的就是像剛剛委員談的除了進之外因為他可能身份是新住民那新住民之後他進來的時候哪一些業務從既有的移民署業務我就把它移撥到 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12265.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12286.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那個新住民發展署大概是這樣那如果細節我再請署長說一下所以就是涉及到你漁民署你本來是側重權益的保障跟融入的輔導你新住民發展署你接下來掌管的是從那個入境居留規劃取得甚至國局法律身份這些事情你們就要明確去做一個劃分了啦那另外啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12287.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12307.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我相信移民署現在是被大家口碑最好的就是你們那個一站式的服務啦新住民我看他們是最熟悉的那我要問的就是說那你新的署成立以後民眾是不是還在原服務站一站就可以搞定所有的諮詢跟申辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12310.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12338.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這裡跟委員報告就是今天冤枉路啦 這樣簡單講啦因為如果新住民發展署成立之後他各縣市的手腳會回歸到所謂的這個新住民家庭服務中心那新住民家庭服務中心透過我們所謂的這個新住民發展基金裡面去做對各縣市做補助目前有41個處所包括有公辦公營跟跟這個公辦民營委託代辦這個部分所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12338.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12354.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
耳後的話當然我們服務站我們在這個過渡階段裡面我們也會對於新住民他相關的權益保障有需要就諮詢的部分我們會協助做一個轉介但是發展署成立之後他耳後的手腳會歸到所謂的這個新住民家庭服務中心以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12355.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12383.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
好 新署的成立的誕生我跟你講我們樂觀其成但是我們很怕一個機關的誕生你到最後讓老百姓多走了一些遠廣路你多設一個署其實沒有困難 很容易但是你怎麼樣少讓這些新住民多跑一趟路啊這個才是我們設立這個的真本事啦所以這個涉及到整個新機關的一個成立我們立場其實就很簡單啦新住民他不是一個族群啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12384.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12409.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
他其實就是用家人的概念這樣去看待那我們期待這一些我們今天新竹的一個成立業務權責分清楚讓他變成新住民的一個靠山你共足一個不只是共榮還是要共榮的一個台灣這個部分業務的部分我相信在主條的時候你們也要跟各個機關你們要把這個事權去弄清楚好不好好 謝謝接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12415.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12431.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我們現在請那個牛許廷代理主席 差一點叫成小明好 謝謝 下一位我們請葉元之委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12444.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12458.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
麻煩請那個次長 內政部次長吳次長有請我們之前新住民的業務啊很多都是在地方政府嘛然後配合中央辦理嘛 那地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12458.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12488.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
散在很多局啦就我了解至少有在教育局或者是在民政局是的民政局就是主要是負責護證的部分那之後我們這個新住民發展署成立之後到時候是怎麼去跟地方多對接這邊跟委員報告那我們這次新住民基本法的內容的部分其實我們就是照基本法裡面從從第一條到最後一條的部分它有關勞動權益語言家庭照護還有一些調查還有一些文化輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12489.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12507.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這些東西我們都是照這個然後去規劃未來就是成立四個組織OK 我是覺得那個新住民發展組很重要因為過去因為是站在不同的業務所以大家可能就只著重在他自己的部分但應該要有一個更上位的機關他去了解新住民真正的需求訂定目標之後再來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12508.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12537.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
這個絕對是有成立這個署絕對是有對新住民是比較好的那我這邊特別提出一個啊我認為這個新住民發展署未來應該要努力做一件事情就是去消除我們這個社會現在對於新住民的歧視我覺得現在有一部分是越來越嚴重之前有曾經就是好像有發生過對於東南亞的新住民歧視我看過一個案例啊說有一個新二代他是越南的因為皮膚比較黑啊就被認為是外籍那個非法移工啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12537.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12559.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
然後警察在盤查的過程當中因為他抗拒所以頭撞到後來縫了17針當時就引起新住民的群組很熱烈的討論就覺得說為什麼是新住民就成為台灣的一份子為什麼要被這樣歧視對待其實那時候引起很大的一個負面的影響現在我發現就是大家對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12561.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12578.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
對於這個陸配也有產生很大的歧視最近我看到好多網路的新聞有人在社群上面分享說他坐一個計程車那個計程車的司機疑似有中國口音然後看起來名字叫鐵軍啊所以就想說哇 這個是不是有國安問題不是啊 他也有可能是陸配啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12579.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12603.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
新住民啊,所以新住民開計程車,養家活口,就有國安問題嗎?然後這兩天,昨天也在網路上看到有一個網友啊,他講說他坐捷運,在滑手機,旁邊就有人問他說,你是不是在監控我們,你是中國人嗎?然後他覺得不舒服啊,他說奇怪了,在旁邊滑手機,為什麼要被這樣子質疑啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12604.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12628.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
然後另外有一個人去留言說 欸這樣好啊 這樣質疑的好為什麼 因為代表大家隨時都提高警覺啊那個有保密防諜啊不是 這完全歧視嘛就是這個難道 這個有陸配以後 喔這是中國口音啊或者怎麼樣 就會被認為有國安問題那個共諜是隨便讓你看得到的嗎 請問一下吳釗燮在當那個外交部長的時候 他旁邊有共諜他有發現嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12630.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12650.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
我覺得這種情緒不能在台灣繼續蔓延所以現在新住民發展所還沒有成立但是我們還是有相關的機關在處理這方面的業務可不可以我們要促進融合而不是在我們國內找敵人我們可不可以請內政部在這方面做一點努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12652.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12673.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
市長好謝謝委員我想我們新住民基本法的架構也是以保障多元文化跟維護現代的權益對啦執行面嘛我現在是把社會我觀察到社會的一些氛圍跟您講嘛我覺得大家因為已經變這樣了我們要做一些努力去消弭這樣的一個歧視啦我們應該要這樣做對對對那是不是可以真的做啦好不要口號好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12673.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12698.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
謝謝委員 其實我們現在都在做相關的業務其實未來移民署把這一部分業務移到新住民發展署我們也是要把這個業務現在也是要做 之後也是要做 了解新住民的需求然後好好的照顧新住民 謝謝謝謝葉元之委員的諮詢下一位我們請蘇清泉委員諮詢蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在下一位我們請徐姓委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12707.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12725.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
好 謝謝主席 本席有請吳次長吳次長有請我想今天大家在談我們今天的有關新住民的不管是組織法或者是整個發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12727.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12754.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這個的組織法草案但是大家都要談到的包括您剛剛在答詢的時候也提到就是說其實新住民的權益新住民朋友他來到我們台灣這個整個的生活工作就業各方面他們有很多需要我們政府做得更多更好那今天本席這短短的時間我想特別針對我們新住民朋友在職場的平權 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12757.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12778.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
還有他跟職場相關的執訓的部分來跟您討論首先第一個就是說新住民我們如果要打造一個就業平權的環境目前您所了解的我們現在最欠缺的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12781.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12809.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那我想這邊簡單跟委員報告我想新住民基本法還沒通過之前其實移民署都有相關的新住民的業務那就是包括語言、勞動、就業、教育、文化你剛剛有講那以這些主軸來講的話那對於他的勞動權益的部分那其實我們從去年開始之後我們做籌備小組那這個我們也是包括像勞動部哪一些業務本身是他寄存的業務那他的業務如果哪些可以移撥到我這邊來 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12809.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12837.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
好 那等一下 我現在時間很短 我要focus一點現在有很大的問題反映出來我們這個新住民朋友他們的這種低薪超時的情況當然我們台灣勞工可能也有但是他們感覺起來也有相對低薪超時還有他們在文化差異或語言差異下所受到的歧視剛剛我相信前面很多委員都有質詢過 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12838.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12853.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
所以這一塊我們有沒有更積極而且具體的一些改善跟具體的做法我想謝委員您剛談的這些部分其實我們也會後續跟勞動部來做個討論因為確實今天勞動部沒來應該沒有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12868.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12896.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
王副組長委員好剛剛我們所提到的就是現在新住民朋友怎麼樣為新住民打造一個就業平權的環境我想新住民朋友有關這個方面的需求已經很多年了但是我們希望能夠真正面對而且很具體是 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12897.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12912.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
其實你們所做的努力你重點是在講一下我們新住民在台灣其實他的就業權益就跟我們的國人的所有權益的保障都是相同的這個概念是沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12914.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12933.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那如果說他在工作上他有遇到其實我們其實其實我們在他的就業情況的調查其實也有發現就是說我們陸配啊在職場上受到的不要特別針對陸配現在太敏感了我們整個的新住民好不好包含東南亞各方面因為我們也看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12934.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12953.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
新住民朋友有些他比如說高學歷高失業率或是高學歷然後但是他的薪資比一般還要低所以這一塊我們應該想一些方法來這個就是平權嘛既然我們的政府也一直強調平權我想他們都已經規劃成為我們中華民國國民 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12956.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12974.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
然後再來確實存在的文化差異跟語言差異我們應該要更積極我相信一直以來都有在做但是如果這種情況還是存在表示什麼我們過去做的根本沒有燒到洋處還有只是做個表面或是做個敷衍交代這樣是不好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12975.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13001.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
因為包括我相信很多委員我們不斷的接觸新住民以及新住民的領袖他們還是一直反映需要的是這個那為什麼我今天的質詢特別強調職業就是因為職業這個他可以伴隨他最長等於他這一生他來到這他工作的職場時間可能三四十年那所以我們希望這一塊能夠來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13006.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13010.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
現在沒有什麼特別具體的作為因為時間的關係 再來我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13015.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13036.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
新住民我們應該除了剛剛我所講的之外沒有沒有一起我接著講的也還是這種職訓對於他們的各種職業類型我知道有在辦但是好像這個一些職業訓練或者是他的就業媒合平台還是很不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13037.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13058.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
那這個部分包含高階一點的高階執訓有沒有特別在做他們如果考證照因為他是新住民嘛那當然我們一般民眾本來就需要考證照但他們因為比較特殊的不管語言或生活文化的差異我們有沒有特殊的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13060.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13086.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
我們這邊對於職業訓練的需求目前最大宗的就是美容美髮業然後在民宿管理業那成長最多的其實我們在電腦資訊業電腦及資訊類別這邊也有一些那我請問所謂的高階職訓班你們有沒有特別有規劃因為我們有分一般的職訓還有高階 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13088.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13112.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
其實他們的訓練都是都一樣就是說如果他可以符合需求其實都可以參加我們的所有的訓練他都是可以參加的好那最後我想問的是為什麼他們那種特別高學歷可是呢他可能失業率也比我們一般同樣學歷的我們的民眾特別他失業率特高這個情況你們有重視嗎這我最後一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13112.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13126.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
其實在我們的調查裡面我們新住民他的勞參率跟失業率其實跟我們一般民眾的比起來他勞參率在112年是75%比我們一般民眾勞參率59.5%還要高那是失業率你那是整體失業率 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13137.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13144.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那我指的是比較高學歷的 失業率你們有了解到這一塊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13146.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13169.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
也就是說他不管他是新住民之子還是本身他就是屬於比較有專業而且高學歷的他來到台灣他好像很難融入我們的職場那我們其實可以善用我也看到這個在社會上包含我們這個各雜誌媒體他們也在呼籲這一塊是不是這一塊可以要來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13171.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13191.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那這個部分對於那個高學歷的部分我們再去猜解一下它的那個我說猜解那個數字其實你們要重視今天我諮詢了你們真的要重視這已經很社會上也已經討論很多了那今天還好像還沒有辦法回答本席的問題表示我們希望再加強好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13193.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13220.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
有關高學歷我會到時候連同教育單位因為大概有些是來台灣就學的那如果說他可以留在台灣這個也是一種那另外就是說來台灣就學沒有留在台灣他沒有規劃我們的我講的倒不是我講的是我們中華民國國民裡面是新住民的部分就是已經是變成中華民國國民的新住民好不好這個我們會連同勞動部跟教育部都可以一起討論好那我想說未來我們這個會麻煩一定要加強好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13223.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13227.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
好謝謝徐欣盈委員下一個我們請劉許廷委員質詢好謝謝吼我們這個吳次長有請請吳次長吳次長午安大家辛苦了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13247.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13276.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
我們現在很擔心啦因為上次修正行政院組織法增加一個署的空間是因為配合我們內政委員會修正這個新住民基本法嘛這個民定基本上要有所謂的相關的一個專責機關那當初大家的共識基本上都是這樣但是大家其實都挺擔心的就是說這一個署在那個地方每一個部都也虎視眈眈所以我在詢問相關內容之前我要問一下這個新住民發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13278.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13298.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
多了這個數到最後不是新住民發展組有沒有可能出現這樣的事謝謝委員指教我想我們依照基本法的第四條就很明定要成立中央三級機關那我們從去年開始公告的時候我們就朝這個目標一直在努力所以說我們都已經整理完了大概也四個組12個科100人的規模有沒有其他的部會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13299.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13324.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
期待這個新的緣額就你的了解可能我只能focus在我內政部的業務你有沒有辦法把握現在我們內政部是走最快最積極的而且最接近的應該是嘛我們一直都走很快喔好這我們要提醒一下嘛就是說如果最後被人家攔胡的話那其實是違反新住民基本法嘛對不對我們政府機關政府一體不能夠自己做出一些讓自己政策打架的事嘛對不對所以吳市長應該會非常積極推動這件事對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13325.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13343.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我一直在做因為這個事關我們要不要快速通關嘛對不對大家其實有很多人很緊張就是因為擔心說這個數到最後被人家攔戶其實我聽起來應該是不會啦因為今天不管朝野各黨在談這樣的事情的時候基本上都是大家都是對焦在新住民的政策嘛我們也希望新住民這個東西趕快來處理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13344.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13370.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那麼就是內容的部分跟市長來做一下討論現在我們一些籌備小組開了很多次的籌備會議其實基本上你們人央馬翻因為在成立新的署之後才會有新的員額新的人進來負責新的事務但在籌備的階段其實每多籌備一天對內政部來講就是尤其對移民署來講它其實就是很大的負擔因為就本期的了解現在大概都是移民署本來是移民署下面的科所以就這一群人在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13371.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13394.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
在這顆的人力元額這樣的數量在處理未來一個署要做的事情 包含籌備其實是非常非常辛苦那我想請教 如果說我們這個法案順利通過新住民發展署趕快給它成立之後這人力的問題 人力的缺口要怎麼樣來增補你還是要從移民署調派嗎還是我會來重新招考大概會有多少元額這部分有沒有一些相關的資料可以提供呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13395.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13420.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
好 謝謝我想跟委員報告我去年到現在已經召開七次主持的會議其實也針對人員的員額我們都有在我們內政部包括人事處還有人總這邊有一些是需要請證那原本業務移撥的部分的話就是移民署大概會有將近50位同仁要移撥到未來的新竹營發展署那另外請證員大概也要將近50個那這個部分我們都有跟人事處跟人事總署都有所以大概會是100個 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13422.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13440.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
我們認為目前的最適規模我們未來成長大概也是抓到100也是在100個左右是的好這個我希望他明確所以然後我我想次長你應該也不希望這個法案耽擱對不對你也希望這個署趕快來成立對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13441.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13466.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
我覺得這個只要是政策我們都會推動政策都會推動因為今天本來是希望今天可以做但因為這個大家議程的安排或怎麼樣當然我們尊重這邊主席的安排但沒有關係我本席是非常希望他可以盡速來成立那我們再三強調這個新的新住民發展組絕對不能被攬股啦好不好如果我覺得這有共識的話大家可能就比較安心一點那第二個就是人力的支援啦我們也希望內政部這邊更加積極因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13468.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13489.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
你拖一天就是移民署累一天嘛移民署撥走五十個人之後移民署既有利益會不會受影響我再追問一下這個我要不要請我們署長來補充一下好啊 可以啊 移民署署長有請因為成立新的署其實兩個單位就有工作屬性會調整屬性會調整嘛 一部分工作會分出去嘛 對不對所以你五十人規模會有什麼樣的具體影響我也來探討一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13491.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13500.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
委員好我們這邊跟委員做一個報告齁其實這個目前為止我們新住民基本法相關的一些業務齁那 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13502.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13524.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
我們移民署現在在承辦新住民的這些相關業務裡面總共有13項業務然後因為我們新住民基本法裡面在新住民的定義裡面有做了一個擴張所以會有所謂的擴大辦理的業務總共有15項然後因為我們也把所謂的技術跟所謂的專業的移民也納進去了所以會有我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13526.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13553.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
56項的一個新增業務所以到時候我們移民署原本的既有的13項業務我們會持續的來推動那新增跟擴大的部分可能就這個新發署來接續以上所以50個人基本上對移民署來講衝擊就還可以因為本來就是這50個人本來就是在做跟新住民相關的嘛你只是換一個服務單位這樣子的概念對不對好那你們這個人力轉調計畫的一些期程你們自己有沒有內部抓時間表 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13555.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13585.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
沒關係都可以看誰要回答因為這個主要我們必須得配合所謂我們的這個這個新住民基本法的一個施行日的實踐嘛所以說早一點處理完其實就早一點把這個短期資源跟中間籌備工作趕快做一個了結嘛對不對所以本期當然是非常希望這個東西可以盡速來處理那最後一點點時間針對各個委員現在提出來的版本組織法律修正其實我覺得內容大同小異請問這個我們行政機關這邊針對法條的內容有什麼意見或者是不同意的地方嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13586.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13600.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
我想簡單跟委員報告,我今天看到的各個版本部分可能有一些是屬於並非屬於三級機關的權責,譬如說國家考試,另外還有社會保險,社會保險因為在基本法裡面沒有這項規定,所以可能會逾越母法沒有授權。 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13603.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13625.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那你們有沒有跟提案委員提早進行溝通跟說明呢我們收到版本之後其實也盡量趕快來先整理好 因為我希望就盡速說明嘛既然今天還沒有要進入到主條審查的階段那我們行政機關應該是利用時間早一點把你們會認為可能會自然難行的部分提早跟提案委員說明那我也相信各黨黨團會提前進行整合讓後續的審查速度可以加快那只要前期溝通做好後續速度加快 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13626.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13642.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
趕快讓這個東西落袋為安趕快拍板那我想趕快讓對我們的新住民朋友施以更大的援手讓這個品質可以更加提升希望喔這個不管黨派好這應該是一個這個跨黨派的共識啦好希望我們可以盡快努力盡速達成好嗎好市長辛苦了謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13644.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13659.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好 謝謝所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本聯席會 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13660.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13679.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
那委員劉許廷吳啟明所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆本次會議進行到此討論事項所列兩案報告及詢答完畢作如下決議均另定期繼續審查現在散會謝謝大家 |