| IVOD_ID |
167664 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167664 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-18T12:56:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-18T13:07:10+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60537d44eada69c425ed18cbbd4f69c426c0ff312b132094bbea8d2e5e7e7ae529c45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:56:40 - 13:07:10 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部、原住民族委員會、內政部、教育部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部及國家衛生研究院，就「如何精進偏鄉醫療與長照資源落差及落實《原住民族健康法》之困境，並對提升原住民族健康權益及強化原鄉照護量能（含提升機關位階與人力配置）」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【3月18日及3月19日，二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席,有請部長,部長沒吃飯在吃米糕部長辛苦了,不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
14.755 |
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部長謝謝你陳委員好好久不見不好意思我會繼續出現在這一組的之前我們在審查那個身心障礙者權益保護法的時候因為大部分的時候是呂次長出席所以您未必就是我以前了解當時有討論情形那我自己當時也有一些想法我今天稍微跟部長這個稍微前情提要一下我當時提過一個觀念就是輔具的目的輔具的目的就是一個這個補足功能上的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
41.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
50.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
所以就是說讓需求者都能夠持續的生活而且能夠接受支持這個觀點那從這個角度來講我想請教部長您認為無障礙計程車是不是也可以算是一種移動性的輔具無障礙計程車它可以幫助需要的人可以順利抵達治療場所 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
63.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
84.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
不障礙計程車您同意我這個說法嗎因為輔具我們現在大家定義在都還是以個人使用為主你這個是運輸工具但是也是讓他去能夠順利治療我的意思說我現在最近接到一位家長的陳情那他的孩子是罕見疾病但是他是那種多重障礙的孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.402 |
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104.493 |
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那他就需要長期每天的一個復健包括職能的這個治療等等來維持他的身體的機能就是對這樣的家庭來說他的復健他不是可有可無的而是說他為了維持每天的生活機能他必須成為他生命的一部分他必須每天都做這樣的一個努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.994 |
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125.606 |
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所以復健不是這個可有可無我剛剛才提到說我這個觀點您同意嗎對他來說他就是必須如此要多重障礙多重的功能障礙那我想先向部長確認一個問題那請問現在長照交通接送服務是不是只能在往返這個醫療院所如果部長您如果不熟可以請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
126.506 |
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153.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個我們目前的長照交通車主要就是長照服務據點還有據點也可以可是部長現在很多人的狀況是需求者其實是在社區社區治療所進行復健譬如說職能治療所復健物理治療所但是再請教部長這些依法設立而且專業服務的提供復健功能的治療所目前是不是被長照交通接送法排除在外 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
154.226 |
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180.124 |
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以目前它是就醫接送啦我們現在長照的那個幾次婦是就醫接送啦另外也會去送長照據點啦就是照中心那些它也會送但是目前它是被排除在外嘛那但是剛剛你提的是說應該是這樣講它是屬於這個像物理治療所啦那麼像這些屬於這個治療所的部分我們來研議看看如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
180.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
185.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因為我們現在是把醫療定位在醫院其實還沒有開放到治療所的部分我想提醒部長現在就有一個很大的制度矛盾你們推的這個長照3.0強調什麼社區共榮圈照顧那都希望可以在社區就近取得資源來接受照顧但是卻只限於醫療院所反而把社區裡的治療資源先暫時排除在外如果一個孩子部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
238.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
他在醫療院所治療所他可以接受他可以享受這個就使用長照交通接受但是他到社區的職能治療所接受復健治療所他卻不能夠使用這樣的制度有符合長照3.0的這個往這個社區照顧這個部分我們可以來檢討因為過去的想像是比較單純就是說因為在這些物理治療的時候呢他需要有醫師的處方因為要醫師的處方的關係他就是以診所或者是醫院為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
255.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但是我現在理解說有些可能他以釋出處方的方式在治療所而且這個不會很多啦這個我請長照師研議看看您願意如果他的需求上是有需求的話我們把它開放就OK |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
256.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個概念是一樣至少要先納入檢討好嗎你先檢討那這個檢討可不可以盡快也讓我知道好好謝謝那不等我還是要談到這個肺癌的部分那當然早期發現很重要那是為什麼現在出現很大的疑慮當然大家都看過高志文教授的這個文章 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
294.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那這個他擔心說過去十幾年肺炎切除這個是個大手術那他可能出現過度診斷或太多不必要的手術那我想請教衛福有沒有掌握真實狀況有沒有要回頭去檢討就是你篩檢的部分跟癌症跟健保申報的資料那你有掌握過去十多年來這個肺炎切除手術的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
295.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我有請這個健保特別把它分析齁其實這個肺的這個切除它是分成三種一種是整個大葉的切除Lobetomy一個是Segmetomy就是那個分葉一個是Wedge就是氣狀的切除小的Lysion的話它是做Wedge另外才來做到這個Segmetomy最大才是做Lobetomy那現在看起來齁大葉切除的部分的個案增加不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
增加不多所以表示都是找到小的我知道找到的都是一些比較小的這個Nodule Legion去切所以切出來的大概都是分葉或者是器狀切除部長你也是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
341.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
358.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
國健署今天是副署長在這邊你們都是專家我們當然希望經過篩檢然後診斷然後你的治療可以證明確實它是惡性我想重點是這個所以這個部分還是要注意所以跟委員說明就是說如果是現在按照國健署的篩檢的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
360.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
386.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
然後動完手術的確診率大概是1.2%所以跟世界上的文獻大概是相近但是因為有一些現在是自費或者是地方政府補助他那個快寬鬆那非常好所以我們還是需要去強化這個指引的遵從性部長以前我說你只管健保現在你必須多管自身醫療你也多管那您就說要做一些那我也希望儘快看到這個資料好 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
388.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
404.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不好意思 再來是一個比較麻煩的問題少子女化對策行動計畫您前幾天在講因為立法院沒有審查預算所以有些項目沒有辦法推動那部長你的意思是說如果審查預算過了那你就能夠挽救持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
408.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
431.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
破底的生育率嗎也應該這麼說啦跟委員講得更清楚一點就是說這個少子化的問題當然很嚴重然後因素也很多但是呢因為這個今年呢行政院有核定了這個少子女化對策行動計畫的2.0那裡面有擴大包含像新手爸媽的寫手包含了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
432.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
439.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們在這個過去的生育這個補助的部分把它拉高我給你看一張圖還有很多很多項目其實我們就沒有辦法繼續去推動我給你看一張圖他有做證明就是說可能不能輕易的在談總預算你看這個圖你都了解這個圖大家都很熟悉 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
450.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
476.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你看一直從2016年開始下滑那現在前一年真的很可怕嘛再也不回頭嘛 之前還回頭了一下這個是真實的部分那請你看 因為你提到總預算啦我針對立委責任我還是要告訴你當然總預算什麼這個有它的背景可是你來看從2016年民進黨執政開始到2025年 去年你看那個三讀日應該不錯吧 你稍微看一下這很快啊 四日都不錯對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
478.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
還不錯啊就是他的那個三讀日的時間啊可是這樣這條線照樣往下走欸你這個人這個少子化對這個投入了幾千億你知道投入幾千億嗎從2018年到2025年你知道投入幾千億目前是編列到1200億左右我是指那個這多你該不該承受一下嘛2018年到2025年啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
499.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
518.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那是逐年增加啦很可怕喔很可怕所以台灣的年輕人他不會因為你預算過了我就生嘛你預算沒過我就不生小孩嘛所以老實說應該現在要檢討的不是這個東西因為我現在也在等待一個醫學奇蹟啦因為當然你也必須說有很多因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
518.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
533.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你不能說預算沒有過所以我沒辦法做這個超子化政策這個等於要創造醫學奇蹟你知道我現在等著看一個醫學奇蹟叫做什麼呢2030年你們的癌症死亡率要降低三分之一我等著看這個醫學奇蹟會不會發生我定義它是個奇蹟 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
535.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
555.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
一定會下降那你剛剛可以理解2018到2020我們花了5930億在這個少子化政策但是結果出生率還是慘不忍睹到去年為止慘不忍睹那少子化辦公室空的假的虛擬的根本就不存在那是偶爾的開會不定期不定時又不檢討的一個會議這個執政長要檢討的真的不是預算因為預算夠多但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
563.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
577.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
他只是想說政策哪有問題但是因為我原子膠是說還不夠多啊5930但是你看到年齡下降啊就算你說很努力用到對的地方我們現在也還沒有去了解用錢用到哪我問很多立委他們都不知道但是你看這條線 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
578.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
582.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
對不對現在是最鐵的事實嘛這個是事實啦就是花五千多億還結果結果是這個意思是說我們還沒有所以我才說請部長吼 不同行公預算還沒來吼所以我們沒辦法做應該是這樣講啦預算沒有省沒有辦法讓我們GD的計畫推動這個也是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
598.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
623.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那麼生育率的下降呢還沒有止跌回升也是事實這兩個不見得有絕對的關係但是呢沒有預算是絕對沒有辦法推動的但是我一直告訴你過去2015年蓋瓜承受嘛我有陳理官2010年來預算三讀照樣很順利很好的時間通過但是結果還是慘不忍睹所以部長檢討一下到底有什麼方法可以讓大家生小孩好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
625.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
626.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
包括我的人工生殖法案謝謝部長謝謝委員謝謝陳昭志委員 |