| IVOD_ID |
16766 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16766 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
26 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-18T08:31:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-18T13:05:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:33:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea7536b190c0b7f68c0cc1067dc387cc1f8b19dddded0b194fafd21d5833c2dd025ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長就「公寓大廈公設點交爭議及其處理與預防作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、審查「住宅法」修正草案等38案，詳見議事日程。【進行專題報告及詢答，並宣讀住宅法第(二十一)案至第(三十八)案提案條文，第(三十八)案如經院會復議則不予審查。】【6月18日及19日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:46 - 13:05:00 |
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好 大家早安 請主任秘書報告出席人數出席委員11人 已足法定人數報告委員會 我們現在開會進行報告事項 請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第三會集內政委員會第25次全體委員會議議事錄 時間114年6月12日星期四上午9時至9時58分 地點紅樓202會議室出席委員 蔓玉珍委員等12人 請教委員丁學忠 徐欣盈二人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2334.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2351.58 |
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列席官员、中央选举委员会主任委员李进勇及相关人员、行政院主席总处公务预算处专门委员李毅柔、主席张昭及委员洪璐。报告事项宣读上次会议事录决定确定。讨论事项继续审查114年度中央政府总预算有关中央选举委员会预算冻结专案报告案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2352.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2360.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
中央選舉委員會函為114年度中央政府總預算決議檢送決議關乎一關乎四及新增決議關乎335預算凍結專案報告請查照案決議均同意動之女居報告提報院會 宣讀完畢好 請問各位委員 上次會議事錄有錯誤或遺留之處沒有 我們議事錄確定那麼我們就繼續進行本次議程 請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2378.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2405.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告事項邀請內政部部長行政院消費者保護處處長就公寓大廈公設點交爭議及其處理與預防作為進行專題報告並被質詢討論事項住宅法繼續審查委員郭玉琴等17人委員黃建豪等17人分別離居住宅法第4條條文修正草案繼續審查委員徐巧欣等20人離居住宅法第23條條文修正草案繼續審查委員林黛樺等17人離居住宅法第25條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2405.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2430.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
继续审查委员赖世宝等17人拟据住宅法第15条及第23条条文修正草案继续审查委员牛许婷等16人拟据住宅法第10条及第57条之一条文修正草案继续审查委员翁晓琳等16人拟据住宅法第4条条文修正草案继续审查委员黎燕秀等17人拟据住宅法第15条及第23条条文修正草案继续审查委员罗志强等16人拟据住宅法第25条条文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2431.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2453.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
继续审查台湾民众党党团拟据住宅法部分条文修正查案继续审查委员苏巧慧等17人拟据住宅法第四条条文修正查案继续审查委员牛旭廷等17人拟据住宅法增订第21条之一条文修正查案继续审查委员林思敏等21人拟据住宅法部分条文修正查案继续审查委员李坤成等24人拟据住宅法第四条条文修正查案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2453.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2479.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
继续审查委员徐欣盈等26人拟据住宅法部分条文修正查案继续审查委员马文君等19人拟据住宅法第4条条文修正查案继续审查委员高金素梅等27人拟据住宅法部分条文修正查案继续审查委员郑天才等18人拟据住宅法第2条条文修正查案继续审查委员吴佩义等17人拟据住宅法第22条及第23条条文修正查案继续审查委员林倩琪等23人拟据住宅法 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2479.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2495.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
部分条文修正查案审查委员王洪威等20人委员陈苏月等17人委员陈金辉等18人分别拟据住宅法第四条条文修正查案审查委员徐雨珍等20人委员范云等17人委员林月琴等19人分别拟据住宅法部分条文修正查案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2495.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2523.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
审查委员杨耀等22人拟据住宅法第25条条文修正草案审查委员罗廷伟等17人拟据住宅法第4条第15条及第23条条文修正草案审查委员王美惠等17人委员邱振军等19人分别拟据住宅法第4条条文修正草案审查委员苏巧慧等10件拟据住宅法部分条文修正草案审查委员罗明彩等16人拟据住宅法第4条条文修正草案审查委员李博义等16人拟据住宅法增订第4条之1条文草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2523.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2545.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
宣查委员王玉明等17人拟拒住宅法第4条第19条及第20条条文修正查案宣查委员杨琼英等21人委员游浩等17人分别拟拒住宅法第4条条文修正查案宣查委员罗志强等16人拟拒住宅法第40条及第43条条文修正查案宣查委员叶元之等19人拟拒住宅法第4条条文修正查案宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2547.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2573.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
報告委員會我們本次議程兩天一次會今天我們進行專題報告跟詢答並且宣讀新增提案條文明天6月19號我們進行新增審查法案提案說明以及住宅法的大體討論那麼我們現在介紹在場委員及列席官員委員部分我們張志倫委員蘇巧惠委員黃婕委員還有我們王美惠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2576.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2594.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
官員部分我們內政部劉世芳部長國土署吳興修署長還有我們行政院消費者保護處鍾瑞蘭處長好那我們現在進行今天的專案報告我們請內政部劉世芳部長報告劉部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2601.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2612.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
莊委各位委員女士先生大家早感謝各位委員對內政業務的關注跟指導那今天呢大院的內政委員會召開會議就公寓大廈公設典礁爭議以及其處理與預防的作為做專題的討論那我們應邀請來進行報告並備質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2620.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2644.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有關公寓大廈點交制度 攸關住戶的居住品質 社區的永續管理及公共資源使用的效率也涉及消費者保護 影響民眾購屋的權益建築物完工之後由起造人 也就是建商將公寓大廈的共用部分依照相關法令及契約交付給區分所有權人共同管理使用的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2645.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2665.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個過程涉及三方的主體包括政府建商與民眾其法律關係主要屬於民事領域政府則居於行政監督角色在務實上若發生爭議的時候應該由法院依照民法及契約內容予以審理判斷非由行政機關直接主導或介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2665.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2694.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
才能維持法治秩序與公司的分際有關公寓大廈公共設施點交爭議及本部的因應作為整體說明如下依據現行的公寓大廈管理條例第57條規定起造人應該在管理委員會成立或管理負責人選任之後7日內會同政府主管機關及管理委員會或管理負責人完成對共用部分約定共用部分及其附屬設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2696.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2707.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
設備的點交作業其中設施設備點交範圍包括水電機械設施消防設施及各類管線的功能檢測並於點交時應該附上使用執照竣工圖廠商資訊以及維護手冊以利後續社區管理與維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2715.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2735.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
上述设备设施有明显缺陷者起造人持未完成修缮可由直辖市或县市主管机关处新台币4万元以上20万元以下的罚还并得令业者限其改善或履行业务借其不改善或不履行者并得连续处罚 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2735.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2761.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
此外依據工藝大廈管理條例第18條第二項後段的規定僅有完成上述典交並且向地方主管機關報備以後該地區方可由公庫撥付公共基金該基金攸關社區公共設施修繕電梯保養公共照明與消防安全等基本維運需求為住戶權益的重要保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2761.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2790.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
相關法令雖然已經建構典交制度但是在實務運作當中仍然常常面臨以下的挑戰例如品質及契約的禮約爭議保固認知落差及初始管委會操作不當導致後續運作等等的爭議面對上述的挑戰內政部除了持續強化法令宣導與輔導措施以外也推動各項做法以持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2791.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2812.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
各方妥適處理典交工作如強化契約制度提供典交工具表以及宣導爭議處理機制等等在強化預售屋買賣定型化契約的部分內政部依照消費者保護法第17條公告之預售屋買賣定型化契約應該記載事項第16點規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2817.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2846.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
基电、消防设施及各类管线等公设之检测责任由卖方负责,检测方式由卖方及管理委员会或管理负责人双方协议之。在点交时,为了避免点交不清,可参考公寓大厦共用部分、约定共用部分与其附属设施设备点交表所定之点交项目文件图说使用维护手册、厂商资料及检测功能等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2847.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2875.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
公社完成典交后日后如有需要修缮的事项管理委员会或管理负责人仍可请求建商依其与买方间的保固期限及范围大约是结构15年固定建材设备一年为主之约定来进行修缮买方如有公社典交或瑕疵争议因为常与履约争议相关建案买卖过程当中建议 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2876.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2889.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
買方保留施工圖、宣傳廣告等佐證資料若管理委員會對於點交項目不熟悉建議參考本部所制定的公寓大廈管理報備事項處理原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2891.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2919.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
附件六有关公寓大厦共用部分约定共用部分与其附属设施设备点交表并且透过双方协议的方式办理点交确保自身权益另外买方如果有公社点交或瑕疵的争议得依消费者保护法第43条规定向消费者服务中心或消保官申诉或寻依民事诉讼程序来处理以援护其消费权益 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2920.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2941.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
公寓大廈典交制度攸關住戶的居住品質社區的永續管理以及公共資源使用效率也影響民眾的購屋權益內政部未來將持續傾聽各界的意見強化制度設計與執行配套以提升行政效能與住戶的保障以上報告請各位委員女士先生不吝指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2945.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2973.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 謝謝劉四方部長的報告那麼其他單位的報告我們就請委員自行來參閱我們會刊登公報現在進行詢答委員質詢前原力做以下幾點宣告第一 本會委員發言時間六分鐘必要時延長兩分鐘非本會委員發言時間五分鐘我們上午十點三十分截止發言登記第二我們今天這次的會議要進行法案處理我們就不處理臨時提案那請問各位委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2974.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2979.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
沒有好那麼我們現在進行詢答請登記第一位蘇喬惠委員質詢好謝謝主席我們請劉部長劉部長也請 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2997.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
3016.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
副院長部長好 部長那今天雖然是要先講這個公寓大廈的公社點交爭議不過我還是想就昨天的新聞來就部長請教我想昨天的一個大家很關心的新聞是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
3017.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
3021.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們推行多年中央補助的這個租金補貼那深受好評你可以看得到這個這個300億元中央擴大租金補貼專案其實租金補貼專案是一年一年跟因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
3034.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
3051.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
申請的人越來越多所以中央政府也越推越大越推越廣金額持續的加碼所以可以看到人數人數的部分對不對我們其實是一直往上增加不管是在決算金額或受益戶數都一直上升可是昨天看到這個新聞是說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
3055.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
3073.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個才化法修正不 其實應該是說我們從報紙上面看到這個未來從明年開始中央可能不再全額補助而希望各地方縣市政府能夠有不擔自籌的部分所以地方縣市政府都跳腳部長 這是怎麼回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
3075.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
3093.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
報告委員原則上是這樣子因為內政部的國土署在6月12的時候有發函那是因為六都裡面有五都在籌編預概算的人要求我們國土署是否可以告訴他們明年度他們的預算裡面要不要把租金補貼的這個分擔比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3095.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3117.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
放到他們在地方縣市政府的預算裡面所以我們國土署呢就發了一個公文過去那這個當然是一個通案的原則所謂的通案的原則就是說因為在111年之前本來在租金補貼的部分當時就是有中央跟地方政府按照他的這個這個財力的分級 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3120.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3146.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
來做負擔的比例但是到111年的時候因為當時的行政院長他有提到那因為中央的稅收比較多所以願意幫地方政府來負擔他們應該負擔的比例所以過去兩三年以來呢都是由中央來全額負擔那我們呢是放在住宅基金裡面那他的撥補如果不夠的話呢是由行政院撥補到這個住宅基金這第一個先跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3147.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3175.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那從明年開始因為財政收支劃分法在今年三月已經對外三讀通過跟公告所以明年開始呢中央政府的收入會減少那地方政府的收入會增加所以我們希望呢地方政府在籌編明年的預算的時候的比率上面是否可以恢復原來的這個財力的分級的部分呢把它編列到地方政府裡面去 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3175.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3191.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那這裡面呢也可以跟委員報告一下其實今年開始啊有關租金補貼申請的時候它的審查就是在地方政府那中央只是說就有一些資訊錯誤啦或是抽查做比例所以申請的戶數是84萬戶可是通過的戶數呢是72萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3196.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3212.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那當然其中六都是最多的部分所以我們是按照這樣的方式啦也就是依照新的財政收支劃分法在明年地方制度上面必須要配合的住宅政策也就是租金補貼政策的時候希望地方縣市政府在籌編也可以把這個納為籌編的預算的項目之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3216.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3232.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好 謝謝部長 部長說得很清楚那我也給您完整的時間那我們再逐個簡化一點來講因為這個題目您剛剛說到的111年起由中央全額補助這時候我也已經在立法院了我記得這個過程是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3233.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3249.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
租金我們台灣人自己要住房子有時候沒有辦法買馬上買的時候我們都去租租的時候如果國家能夠給我一點更多的補貼補助對我們的幫忙其實是很大的所以租金的補貼大家都覺得應該要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3250.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3274.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好到了111年的時候呢有兩件事情第一個就是當時的財政好國家的稅收多所以按照過去的狀況中央政府有預渡這是第一個中央政府有預渡財政好第二個是因為我們當年在國會質詢的時候我們一直有一個想法各種社福資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3275.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3297.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
全體國民不應該區分他居住在哪一個縣市不管是育兒津貼也好或者是生產津貼也好甚至是包括這些各式各樣的社福津貼不應該因為你居住的縣市不同而有不同的待遇所以如果是統一性的社福政策能夠由中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3298.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3309.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
一次來統一那麼你住在任何一個地方都收到一樣的保障一樣的待遇我們當時都認為這樣是好的是對的所以都贊同了這樣的政策由中央來全部執行全部補貼數而統一我們是這樣子的想法也做了這麼多年看起來剛剛看到大家這樣的數字決算數字還有這個戶數申請一年比一年多就知道這是一個好的政策而且大家越來越習慣越來越受歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3327.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3350.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以我們當然希望他能夠執行啊而且在這個執行的過程中最最重要的人民不會分你是中央還是地方啦最重要的是這個補助的金額不能少然後會入到我的口袋裡面來就是這麼簡單而已嘛好所以結論我們是希望補貼的錢不要少那麼來了問題來了那麼現在到底中央和地方政府要照 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3352.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3378.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
111年前的分法中央負擔一部分地方負擔一部分那甚至地方你還可以決定你到底要加多少等等的嗎這是一種嗎還是是全部繼續由中央買單如果我是地方縣市政府我當然希望地方縣市政府當然我如果我是地方縣市政府我當然希望中央全額買單啊不用我出錢當然好啊我是來自地方的我當然希望我的錢越多越好 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3378.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3387.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
尤其是你看看我們如果台北市跟新北市補的話其實在新北得到租屋補貼的戶數超過10萬戶台北只有6萬戶可見得我新北需要的比較多啊那可是相對來講如果要地方縣市政府負擔的話新北市政府負擔的就比較多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3399.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3422.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
你看同樣6萬戶跟10萬戶我們兩個負擔起來怎麼都是18億那可是回過頭來在這個統籌分配款這個財化法新修正之後台北市有沒有拿的比我多有喔那這樣子的話我們新北一樣拿最少為什麼我還是負擔這個比例呢所以這些事情這些細節坦白講當時在財化法修正的時候有沒有討論到沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3425.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3449.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
就是沒有啊我們再說一次我們從來不反對才化法修正民進黨甚至包括我蘇巧慧我從不反對才化法修正我也支持地方可以得到更多的預算但是我們反對的是當時在這個過程當中你只喊一個數字接下來像這種社福的部分到底是誰應該負擔多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3451.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3459.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我現在新北如果負擔這個乘數的話跟其他縣市比 比如說跟台北市比這樣負擔的乘數公平嗎我覺得不公平啊 對不對那我有沒有機會表達呢通通都沒有啊 那現在這樣狀況好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3468.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3494.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
才化法看起來多拿了300億那可是現在中央沒有錢啊好 我也可以說中央你就是把這個錢全部都要補足對 社福跟人民很相關一定要補足但雞蛋裡面的籃子裡面的雞蛋就是這麼多個你一樣拿了這些雞蛋走了之後那誰沒有雞蛋可能我們就沒有辦法買潛艦啊可能沒有辦法買飛機啊就這麼簡單嘛因為籃子裡面的雞蛋數是一定的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3495.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3518.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這就是今天的狀況嘛所以部長我其實這段發言是有點感慨啦因為也已經講了慷慨激昂的講了這個半年多一年多了也已經講到累了我相信今天這個朱經天喔我看你其實是在去年的12月這個財化法修正通過的時候12月27號你去年的12月27號你就第一次就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3519.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3538.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
財化法三讀要刪除283.5億然後就可能會影響到租屋補貼你那時候就說了嘛那現在的話我們社會民意代表我們一樣要求啦我們還是要求進到人民口袋的錢不能少不管你們怎麼協調一定要不能少啦這是我們要求的第一點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3538.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3553.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
不管是之後你是不是可以再譬如說提追加預算行政院提追加預算啊或者想窮盡任何的方法反正樓子是別人統的但是想辦法要補破網還是我們的工作啦就是行政權現在也還是在你這裡嘛但 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3554.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3575.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
希望部長能夠盡力的把這個事情的問題再次的說明給大家聽冤有頭債有主今天的問題到底是從何而來就是從這個沒有討論配套的財政收支劃分法亂修之後所形成的狀況這個是我們在這裡利用今天的時局時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3579.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3586.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
真的是很沉痛再講一次因為我相信這不會是因為這不是第一件也不會是最後一件接下來還會有非常非常多件這種社福預算會受到影響的狀況部長我這樣理解應該是正確吧是的也謝謝蘇委員的關心因為長久以來我們都知道這個租金補貼的政策沒有政黨也沒有中央地方之分是但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3601.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3619.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
巧婦難為無米之炊我們沒有錢就是沒有錢那所以我們會希望說地方政府如果可以幫忙分攤的話這個分攤比例的原則那我們大概會是要依照行政院的主計總署看有沒有在新的財政收支劃分法通過之後他有新的涉算原則來請地方政府能夠配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3622.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3649.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
但是我們不希望影響到尤其是明年度開始今年度還是按照原來的舊的方式來執行明年度開始的時候不要影響到要申請的這些年輕人租金補貼的政策那因為大一部分那個蘇委員所提的沒有錯大一部分的申請租金補貼最多的就是落在六都那新北市當然有十幾萬戶那我看到了包括台北市、桃園市、台中市台中市相當的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3649.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3650.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
新北市負擔30% |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3667.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3677.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那台北市是負擔40%但是這個有沒有轉圜的餘地的話我們就依這個行政院主計處的方式來定議我們如果要討論剛剛有說討論事情其實就是應該連配套一次想好嘛這才是我們做事的風格嘛好那如果是這樣的話既然新的財化法已經修正上路了已經通過開始施行了那現在的財力負擔的這個分級表是不是也應該要重新檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3692.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3711.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
因為現在各個縣市拿的狀況不一樣了啊這次的修法很多地方因為他的委員之前在國會叫囂的比較大聲他的縣市拿比較多那是不是換我們這個當時人均最少的新北我們反而應該是要可以怎麼怎麼調整我們是不是他的財力負擔其實也應該怎麼調整不然的話我現在看我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3716.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3725.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
負擔最大的人反而應該要負最多我也覺得這蠻奇怪的啊這個像台北市這麼有錢對不對這個要怎麼去討論每一個縣市當然都會有它的優點和這個不足之處台北市當然也有它的困境但我覺得這整體來講新的標準應該怎麼討論這個可能請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3740.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3753.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
在尊政要推行的時候這個也必須要重新思考一下我們會把這些意見反映給主計總署因為有關於財稅的籌款比例的原則的話是主計總署做最後的定案好 謝謝副縣長好 謝謝蘇曉輝委員下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3770.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3798.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早是有請劉士芳部長劉部長有請好謝謝劉部長劉部長跟您報告一下前幾天6月15號是我們的警察節那本席非常感謝先感謝主席也感謝我們部長在國定假日法制化以後我們全國人民不管是多5天的國定假日或是內政部宣布6月15號是警察節重視警消的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3799.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3824.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那接下來我們明年還有消防節是1月19號也會全部的消防人員放假 對嗎報告 消防節當然是消防人員但是不可能全部消防人員都放假就是會輪班 會輪班他們會按照 譬如說應該內勤是放假為主那外勤的部分又會輪班那如果可以補班或是未來補加班津貼的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3825.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3851.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
按照我們的這個人事行政的規矩來辦理而且是比照警察來辦理沒有問題那同時我們是警察節還有那個消防節還有海巡節所以未來還有海巡節所以我很樂見我們大家重視警消海巡的權益那未來有機會調整加班的待遇讓過長的工時問題可以被看到那接下來我要請教部長有關於最近大家討論到很多的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3852.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3855.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
有關詐騙的社會問題 就是自然人憑證遭到濫用 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3857.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3880.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那最近近期在很多銀行有發現自然人憑證開設數位存款的帳戶最後變成警示帳戶的比重飆高主要原因是因為詐團假借辦貸款的名義詐取民眾的自然人憑證密碼以及身份證後再大量開設銀行數位存款帳戶讓民眾最終成為人頭的警示帳戶那根據報導顯示 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3882.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3909.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這個他收取被害人的個資跟身份證件然後取得同意書到了戶政事務所代辦自然人憑證開立大量的銀行數位帳戶那現在目前自然人憑證在新辦的時候跟廢止的時候是需要本人親自到場那可是是不是在停用跟復用的時候不用親自到場等一下可以請部長說明那現在請問部長知道這樣的事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3910.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3936.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那整個現在詐騙被害的人的整個情況可不可以請部長簡單說明一下報告委員這些案件呢我們在那個我們的那個我們在刑事局為主的包括數位發展部為主的這些我們在處理反詐的時候都有收集相當的證據那委員所提到的部分就是我們也跟銀行局有開會那大概我們的處置方式我就直接先跟委員報告一下還是委員需要再垂詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3937.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3957.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
沒關係我簡單跟部長講一下現在來講就是如果這是一個很嚴重的事情現在如果被害人他提供身份證或自然人憑證加上自然人憑證的密碼的時候就會容易被詐騙集團所利用跟他們講說你們要辦幫你辦信用貸款那現在一個很奇怪很 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3958.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3983.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
重要的點就是說現在這些詐騙集團他可以不用到現場臨櫃去辦網路銀行的帳戶他可以在線上就辦了網路銀行的帳戶所以現在問題點就是問題點第一個是金管會的問題因為他沒有一個監察開戶的一個機制因為他沒有整個程序不夠嚴謹他沒有本人去驗證他的臉或是一些驗證的一些情形第二個內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3984.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
4001.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
也要負相關的責任他有沒有被通知這些因為他們當時是自然人憑被拿取的時候他們有沒有知道他們的其實他們的帳戶被詐騙集團來用為是警示帳戶所以我覺得內政部這邊是不是也可以做相關的協助來去讓這個詐騙集團詐騙的問題給降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
4004.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
4016.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
好報告委員謝謝委員的關心我們已經就現在所謂的警示帳戶全部的警示帳戶做一下基本的統計資料目前有自然人憑證開立這個數位存款的帳戶被列為警示帳戶大概有3400戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
4022.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
4041.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那但是呢我們現在呢經過銀行局跟內政部的溝通的結果我們希望未來的這個增加機制是銀行啦如果可以增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識就可以先處理一下就是有偽冒風險的部分那對於警示賬戶的部分現在我們正在研議如果法規許可的話我們可能會 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
4043.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
4046.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
暫時凍結或是要廢止他的自然人憑證那這個部分是不是請給我們一些時間讓內政部跟銀行局還有農業部裡面的農基屬裡面也是有很多到農會裡面開立的部分先做三方協調清楚以後我們就會對外宣布 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
4065.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4080.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
好 謝謝部長感謝部長有跨部會的協調不過現在目前的狀況我們得到的資料就是剛剛部長特別講到現在總共現在網路銀行的部分總共警示帳戶總共是一萬六千戶那高達三千四百戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4081.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4109.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
就是因為用自然人憑證開立而造成的問題所以比例高達21%左右所以就是五個人五個帳戶裡面有一個警示帳戶就是因為用自然人憑證去開立的這是非常大的一個問題那剛剛我也提到了最近新聞也在提說現在自然人憑證不需要本人親自去辦理可以用委託書來辦理這是在內政部這個去年113年11月15號的一個新的一個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4111.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4133.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那這個就是大家所現在所納悶所討論的一個問題喔因為剛剛我們一開始有提到說這些被害人要提供自己的身份證跟自然人憑證跟密碼等等這些資訊才可以被大片的時候會被開網路銀行現在只要他只要提供身份證加一個雙證件加一個委託書同意書就可以在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4135.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4164.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
由這些詐騙集團到這個戶政事務所幫他辦自然人憑證然後還可以取得因為自然人憑證賦水的密碼有些時候是當時拿到信卡的時候是生日密碼等等這些問題所以我們現在擔心的是說我們內政部的辨明措施會不會變成讓詐騙集團利用的一個方式因為詐騙集團他馬上發現這個事情他就馬上開始利用所以我們當時想的是我們金管會因為他的查核機制不明 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4166.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4187.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
然後內政部他也沒有想說現在這個問題要如何解決就是說為何身份證要辦新辦的時候一定要到本人去辦那自然人憑證不行結果現在導致自然人憑證首次辦的時候也必須要本人沒錯部長你不清楚首次辦跟廢止的時候要親自去護證事務所辦可是現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4188.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4196.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
詐騙情人就是利用你在去年11月15號新班的規定裡面停用跟復用的時候不用本人 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4197.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4215.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
到親自到戶政事務所去辦理所以他們現在只要拿到被害人的雙證件跟委託書就可以去辦理這才是真的最大的問題我們也不希望被害人隨便把自己的雙證件給這些詐騙集團啊沒有沒錯沒錯 隊長你說的沒錯他不是因為他原本是要辦信貸他本來是被騙就是因為原本是要辦信貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4219.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4247.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
結果他不知道詐騙集團就是因為政府好意的變名措施他把它拿去去開銀行帳戶這不是大家的問題這是可以討論的事情所以這才是為什麼現在從四月多的新聞本來是八家銀行現在是我們擔心的是政府不作為結果變成最後端的銀行已經有八家帳戶說停止用自然人憑證來開戶現在已經增加到十家銀行停用自然人憑證來開戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4250.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4271.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
大家最大的問題那我有請我們的助理到各部會去回覆就各部會感覺起來讓我們覺得有一點點互吹皮球沒有看到這個問題的一個現實現在這個現實就是說我們現在的便民的措施就是有關於有停用跟復用不用本人親自到戶政事務所去辦自然人品證這個問題現在已經大量的被這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4275.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4285.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
詐騙集團給濫用啊,剛剛也跟部長也知道數字啊現在整個警視站戶總共一萬六千戶裡面百分之高達百分之五分之一,二十趴就是因為這是就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4286.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4310.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我們就用自然人憑證所造成的所以部長這邊我才要請教說還有一個問題就是說第一個內政部我們希望他可以去跟金管會去通知這些被濫用戶頭的人要跟他講說你不是要辦信貸其實你的戶頭已經變警示帳戶了第二個自然人憑證的審查制度我建議也要來做相關的一個修改因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4311.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4329.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
你們讓這個詐騙集團直接拿到同意書就可以去辦自然人憑證來去做濫用我覺得這是很大的一個問題所以現在變成銀行端變成說最後的銀行端為了要保護受害人所以現在已經有10家銀行來停用了是不是可以請部長來討論看看還有一個最重要的原因是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4330.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4357.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
一般我們國民去辦身份證的時候如果不管是新辦或是遺失補辦都要去戶政事務所當面去申辦為什麼自然人憑證這個馬上就可以來辦這個帳戶的這個部分為什麼內政部還堅持說一定要給大家也這並沒有說這是很好可是現在已經被詐騙團利用的這個部分是不是內政部要趕快積極來研議免得這些警示帳戶越來越多請部長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4359.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4367.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
剛剛我已經跟這個委員做過回覆了第一個就是說第一個並沒有互踢皮球而是在這個過程當中內政部跟銀行局還有農金署都會做開會那如果針對自然人憑證開立的這個被列為警示賬戶的話呢我們會依照相關的規定可能會廢止跟停用 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4380.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4393.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
幫忙保護住這些被濫用或是被偽造風險的這些自然人憑證的使用者就是所謂的被害人那另外一個就是有一些銀行他不願意幫忙做的部分有些銀行他們比較願意來幫忙的部分就是我剛剛所說的譬如說增加線上視訊跟人臉辨識 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4400.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4406.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
因為有關人臉辨識的部分在自然人憑證尤其是我們行動自然人憑證的時候已經導入了所以這個部分如果銀行不願意再用的時候他當然是喪失了辨認的功能那這一部分內政部尤其是警政署會再加強跟銀行局之間的溝通希望他們可以協助因為這些都是他們的客戶可以協助客戶保障不要有偽冒的風險發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4425.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4451.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
沒錯部長因為您是內政部長那金管會他要去做相關的監理監督機制我們非常的認同那現在我再請最後請教我說內政部的部分你們能做的就是第一個可以通知這些自然人憑證被更換的人他們應該要提醒他們說你的這個帳戶銀行帳戶最近要小心會不會變成警示帳戶變成人頭帳戶來做洗錢之用那第二個我也是想說這個自然人憑證的審查制度現在就是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4452.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4481.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
停用跟復用的時候只要一張同意書跟這個被害人的雙證件他當時可能是因為被騙說要辦信貸信用貸款的方式可是他後來他的自然人憑證就被盜用了那這樣的情形他不用臨櫃去做申辦的一個部分那我想是政府的好意是沒錯啦那你們有沒有想說這個部分要來去做調整因為我剛剛已經跟部長報告過了身份證不管是新辦、副辦、庭辦都要本人親自到現場那為什麼自然人憑證不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4482.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4500.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那這次我覺得現在民眾還有相關其他機關會覺得很奇怪我們申辦跟停辦也是要到現場啊沒有沒有沒有使用過程當中會有號啊使用過程中停用跟復用有些數就可以啊是啊所以我說要跟他線上執行跟人臉辨識那這部分就是銀行局需要協調有開戶的這些銀行能夠來協助來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4504.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4526.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以部長的意思是說雖然我們開了這個門讓詐騙集團來利用了可是沒有這個意思我們沒有開門讓詐騙集團來利用我們是一再呼籲說不要把自己的個資隨意就洩露給詐騙集團因為在詐騙的一個這個產業鏈裡面呢最糟糕的部分就是說我們政府機關希望比較方便然後讓大家可以使用的立場但是有的人就會轉這個流動所以產生有詐騙的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4531.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4555.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
再是希望人民好不過我剛剛也跟你報告現在結果就是就是用自然人憑證開戶的比例已經在警示帳戶裡面高達五分之一本席希望說跟部長討論你們可以會去研究不要讓這樣的比例越來越往上升是我們正在進行當中就是剛剛有跟那個委員報告包括我們可能會直接停止廢止停用這個已經被列為警示帳戶的自然人憑證 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4556.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4570.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
好謝謝部長那希望我下次再有機會跟你討論的時候希望這個比例慢慢下降然後你們可以提出具體的做法謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝張志倫委員下一位我們請張宏祿召委諮詢我先請部長劉部長有請召委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4589.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4610.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們今天專報是說公寓大廈公設點交其實現在的法令制度其實都有而且很多現在的購買戶他也都會請專人去看他的房子然後如果沒有來採點交其實我覺得目前有可能比較發生比較有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4611.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4620.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
其實是很多建商他自己的保留戶也很多或是甚至地主自己的保留戶也很多他們啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4621.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4643.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
就已經佔了三分之一以上了所以他們有很大的話語權啦我覺得問題比較可能會有問題的是出在這一小部分吧不知道部長的看法是 我們現在聽到爭議性的大部分就是在點交的過程當中啦那當然有出現買方跟賣方那但是因為很多就是保留戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4644.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4671.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
他在那個公益大校管理委員會的組成他的比例就比較高所以講話聲音比較大所以在點交過程當中大概就是會以建商的意見為意見或者以保留戶的意見為意見然後單一只有一戶的他就只有一票那所以這個大家就會產生爭執這個我們大概知道說這個可能是制度上面需要在通盤檢討的部分而且啦剛點 剛交屋的時候啦其實也沒有什麼住戶什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4672.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4698.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
誰知道他要當主委 可能大家都不想當主委啦阿你保留戶多的 他們就派一個人來當主委啦阿那個主委就可以掌握所有的議程 掌握所有的東西阿當教務大家也對環境不熟我覺得最大的問題 有出問題就是在這裡而已吧對不對可是法令 他還是沒有人要當主委 他還是主委阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4699.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4726.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
因為主委也都是大多數選出來的沒有 現在很多的社區管委會主委是要拜託人家當的是要拜託人家當的誰都不想去做這個事情所以我覺得大家都知道問題點在哪裡但這個問題點要如何去解決我倒覺得如果你是建商的保留戶在未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4728.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4751.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
在未來你是不是你的那個你參與管委會的那個你的比例要稍微受限一個思考方向比如說我建商我還有留一半我沒有賣的那一半沒有點交的是不是他可以暫時排除他去開管委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4754.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4777.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
他雖然是所有權人,但他未來是要賣的喔他未來是要賣的喔但是我們好像公務機關裡面得到的我知道啦,這個現行的法令是不行嘛對,我意思是說我們可以朝這個方向大家來思考如果彌補法令的不足啦我的意思是這樣啦我是不是請署長跟您回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4780.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4794.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
感謝委員 因為委員對這個題目非常的內行現實的確是這樣 我們現在就有兩個極端一個就是像召委所講的這一種就是極端就是因為被保留戶掌握了這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4795.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4823.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
一開始成立的時候的最主要契機那完成了典交那有些公社的確就是事後才陸陸續續出現問題但是因為他掌握了這一個部分所以在當時典交的過程當中並沒有被處理到那所以但是現行的法規的確沒有辦法去限制這一個那我想委員的這個建議我們再來跟地政司在一起來討論在相關的一個合約還有在成立公寓大廈管理委員會的時候是不是要來討論一下這個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4825.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4853.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
讓第二個就在點交的過程當中可不可以還有更公平的方式來處理對啦我沒有說要你們先在做啦我只是說這個方向大家可以思考一下啦來啦另外部長你可以先休息一下我先要問一下署長是署長其實啊我們現在啊有很多的購買戶不管是他買預售屋或是他要再買第二間 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4854.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4876.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
其實很多的銀行雖然我們政策有講了有一些第二戶的你是換屋的或什麼的你都可以購買銀行也應該要貸款但實際上發生的情況是很多銀行就是不貸款他找很多理由我不知道這個部分署長有沒有了解到這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4878.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4901.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
雖然這不是你的全責啦我只是想要請問你有沒有了解到這個部分有沒有這個現象發生的確是有不過因為這是在監管會他要求銀行在針對這個販款的集中度還有個人的這個信貸的標準他是採取比較嚴格的機制啦那但是實際上的操作還是要看各銀行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4901.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4927.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
的一個操作的處理機制不是啊署長這不是你的業務啦我只是要請教你啦有沒有發現有這個問題其實是有啦有啦齁那再來我們危老都更應該不受銀行法72條之二的限制吧是是嘛齁是但現在很多的銀行他變成用央行管制的額度35% |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4929.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4951.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
他就說這不能貸款了 不能怎麼樣有沒有這種情況發生的確是有 但是我說明一下我們也有跟金管會去詢問那當然因為有一些雖然他是的確不受72條的限制但是後續央行還是有要求這一個部分要考慮到 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4952.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4969.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
建商的部分或是個人的部分還是重點在於那個放款的集中度還有它的風險性還是要要求要銀行特別注意所以銀行端才會針對這些案件去做比較強的這樣的一個檢視我為什麼要請教署長這個問題呢都更可能是建商可能是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4977.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
5002.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
當危老很多人家是自己欸自己我們就這一棟我們自己要蓋的就是自主危老啦自主危老銀行就是怕啊怕你這些人沒有建商的保證沒有什麼的個人的信用額度的問題啦個人信用額度的問題但我們的法令規定它是在排除72之2這是我們當初定危老條例我們非常重要的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
5004.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
5022.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
對不對你這個這麼重要的精神你因為央行的管制那你銀行反正這些人我也很擔心他到時候房子蓋不出來然後又怎麼了可是我覺得跟我們的政策是很違背的我不知道署長你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
5023.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
5045.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
感謝委員其實我在我之前也有大概遇過這個案例就是說有協助民眾來跟銀行溝通那我們的同仁也有去跟銀行溝通那當然銀行在這個總行端大致上都沒有問題他們都支持到分行的時候有可能個別的這個承辦人員他有可能就是考慮到 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
5048.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
5072.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
來乘坐這些人他會擔心個人的信用額度不足那或是後續要成立信託機制的話他們也不願意來處理那所以他這個會遭到拒絕那這個部分我們也有最近在開始在朝你一些方向那也會來陸陸續續跟財政部跟監管會一起來討論就危老或是自主都更以個人名義來辦的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
5073.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
5090.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
可不可以在在授信方面的一個放寬或是說政府要訂出什麼樣的一個政策給予相關的一個信託保護的這樣的一個方式讓這些危老自主危老自主都更能夠得到多銀行端的支持我們的確現在是在朝向這個方向在努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
5091.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5110.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
對我覺得署長我覺得要趕快做尤其我再強調一次你如果不是自主督耕的那都是建商了啦那一塊我們給他切出去嘛對不對但你自主的危老自主的督耕現在很多就變成而且這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5111.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5127.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
違反到民眾的權利是你們政府跟我講說我可以不透過建商我自己來我自己動大家講好了我自己就可以來圍牢了是政府跟人家講說可以這樣然後政府又跟人家講說我百分之百可以銀行的貸款不是說百分之百銀行一定會貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5133.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5153.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
跟所有的民眾講耶那民眾現在遇到這個問題我覺得啊署長可能啦要找財政部金管會大家來講如果不行你也請部長出面啊再不行我們內政委員會那麼多委員我相信大家都想替這些自主都更 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5153.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5167.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
的這些人解決問題然後自己的危老改建的不然這個真的會後續會出很大的問題跟委員報告我們也有跟院裡面反映這個事情就跟行政院反映這個事情那院裡面應該也會開始準備來 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5170.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5188.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
準備來籌,來內部再來籌組看看相關的單位,一起來討論,解決這樣一個問題這也已經有跟議員報告過了好啦,我們要盡快啦,不然真的是我們接到很多的民眾,你政府要求跟我講可以,現在又都不行有的人已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5191.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5201.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
房子要拆了 他已經外面租房子了那他每個月租屋欸 對不對我覺得這個是浪費社會資源啦好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝曾宏祿召委的諮詢下一位我們請王美惠委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5217.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5225.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
主席,我們家署長,保證你要多多休息一下我的意見,讓我多記一下好啊,吳署長有請,謝謝吳先生好署長,老實講,署長,在這,我代表嘉義市民感謝長久以來對我們的嘉義市的社會住宅的用心早晚說實在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5243.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5245.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我本身一直從早到晚在黨區的社會主宰在藏埋已經斷頭了在這裡也感謝你們的用心雖然是錢都中央出的但是也要地方的到三天我們才有辦法有這個選擇所以未來的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5267.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5277.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
跟他去建設 還有需要 數量的倒三天 倒八萬感謝委員給我們支持 這一定支持的來 市長在這裡先跟你說公社建交的問題因為這個公社建交的問題 我們電視也有在做有的17天就停了 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5293.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5296.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
有的一兩檔也不算在這個規定當中說實在對北省來說就是剛才蔣委長鴻如說的一開始沒什麼問題一開始就大家開心不不要來打薪水所以這個問題都不存在但有一天的時候電腿海 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5320.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5328.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
還是所有的東西都要修理,尤其最慘的就是我們沒點到有的公寓,現在有時候他們建成老一戶、老兩戶我們沒點到的是後面,以前的時代後面的白水 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5345.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5350.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
的公司都在健康的手中所以最近才發現健康這件事要賣的時候要在那個地方做賣現在做賣,人們心裡會說你們經過我的排水,這地是我的你愛我做啦,署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5372.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5374.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
在這個過程當中,他們去買,他們也買了二、三十桶啊他們也不知道說,他們沒點到,到現在外面買的人,說你如果水經過我們那裡因為我們都還沒做污水下水道嘛,還沒經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5394.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5396.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們現在要過去想說,我一定要去求一件事,因為這個地是我的這個署長,這個問題很大的在這裡的時候,本市要來請教,像這個問題要怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5412.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5422.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
跟委員報告啦,以前你說的那個詐欺,差不多民國六七十年代的老公物,過去都有這樣的問題就是說健康在起碗後,他並沒有完全點高,因為他有一半是做他的法控 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5431.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5443.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
因為他的法控喔,當時如果跟住戶沒有談清楚,因為這是部分屬法控,有的法控以往是點高出來,點高出來就是大家的供應,但是有的抓辯則當時是他的法控留在手上,他要變白地,他要變黑色白地,做那些下去做的時候,還要做那些綁出來, |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5452.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5475.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
所以這個部份就是說他目前上場是先去了解原地那張書腳上面這到底登記的是要給大家公有的這個公設還是他個人專有的部分所以他這個部分第一個要在法律上先把它趕快做釐清那釐清以後如果確實在公益大家認定裡面他還是有機會去當 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5476.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5503.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
原來是屬於大家共有的這個部分的話那當然就趕快成立管理委員會去來處理這一塊那否則他過去他有的經驗是他有可能是把他當作法控就是我自己的法控要處理 這樣就是作為提供所以第一端也是要先這樣釐清再來看後面的方法到底要走供應大家管理委員會的方式還是要去走訴訟那這個要朝這兩個方向再去做判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5505.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5509.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
因為事實上在本席跟你說這個案件的時候,他們也有訴訟過,他們查開,聽到發言的時候,這裡過路的排水的地方,一定是他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5521.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5529.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
所以不是公司的筆,大家要使用,對啦,所以這樣說實在頭很痛,所以在這個過程當中,我覺得未來,我們應該要再做好,不然像你說的,要處理的時候,大家怎麼知道什麼問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5545.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5549.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
因為我今天來檸檬,就是最近都有一些,我們有的公益,那在拉皮的開銷的時候,那在買賣,後來才知道有這個問題,那剛才書長說的說,他就趕緊管理委員會的來,那管理委員會有的,就有的公益,就完全沒有管理委員會啦,這才會吃辣啦,像嘉義的聯誼國際, |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5575.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5577.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
也是感謝署長的用心跟地方的機關的配合跟去那裡說給他們聽跟最近他們跟成立啦所以那個聯義國寨的信是有夠久夠久像署長說的大家都不知道法規是什麼啦所以在這也感謝署長聯義去教教理事如果這裡的大樓 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5603.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5611.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
會改善讓他們能夠自立來成立管理委員會成立管理委員會的好處很多你要做什麼都依管理委員會來開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5619.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5624.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
像我們要申請中央的補助 申請地方的補助也是一定要有管理大樓才有辦法去申請補助的所以在這裡來講 我覺得有幾位 幾位管理委員會也需要我們的署長跟地方多多去配合像我自己是 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5647.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5651.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
他們有申請的七百二十幾檔你也知道他還有很多本身要跟你說,因為這時候的時間也夠了但是這個非常要緊,非常重要要跟你討論的是,圍爐圍爐的時候,你們有說到 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5672.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5681.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們期間的兩檔讓他們去定期,讓他們去處理,可以如何去改善但是在本社所了解,兩檔的時間,少一個而已,可以過了在這國外就夠了,師長你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5693.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5699.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
因為你們都在一流的開始 但你們未來 因為像我剛才自己說的 自己說的大流的 久的都差不多在七流左右 署長 您覺得有這個機會說 未來也在幾流再下去嗎有這個機會嗎 來 署長你回答謝謝委員 因為確實 現在目前進行到 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5720.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5732.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個時候 差不多早期公寓的一些問題就比較陳柯難以解決的包括說 管理委員會做判省立有的 就像剛才說的公協的問題開始變得很複雜的時候我們有注意到 可是現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5738.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5744.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
要進行 後面要進行 要登記下去的這個速度已經慢很多了所以這個部分 我想我們內部再來檢討看是不是再來協助大家放寬一個期限然後再看看大家實務上的困難我們就等一下再來討論看看看是不是大家遇到的問題看看要怎麼來幫助我們這些大樓可以把這個管理組織管理組織來加速來勝利我想這個部分我們內部再來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5766.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5770.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
事實上在這裡本身要跟你說,剛才聽到你一句話說會改天來檢討,在這裡面的過程,我覺得這非常重要因為我們不要說發生事情,要來做什麼要做什麼,那些都不會有,都沒辦法,就要發生事情,知道會有的時候,就要來處理,在剛才 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5794.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5796.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我們有說到租金補貼的問題啦 大家開心生啦 開心不不啦 我賺多少啦 你賺多少啦比較什麼人賺最多 最開心啦 現在說實在啦 你買啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5812.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5815.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
租金補充的時候 雖然是80年以前 還可以有製造款沒有錯但是在這幾年裡面 都是中央全額補助的啦那你現在還要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5830.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5832 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
回來,地方也要補助,地方就一般補助,不管是中央、這裡的人、外人,地方也很辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5847.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5850.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
最主要本省的意見就是你們中央跟地方政府要說好賣社的權益賣社的補助一家又不能走因為像我剛才說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5865.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5870.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
他們的自償是15% 跟百貨公司的經濟要自償30%跟北省的租金 跟去社廷工作 已經很難做了跟北省的租金 去社廷工作 已經很難做了跟北省的租金 跟去社廷工作 已經很難做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5887.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5896.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
不知道有沒有啦 跟什麼中央的歐北部啦 歐北省啦 到底頭到尾是怎樣就是你們當時不要再內戰 會補助238億 都沒有這個事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5908.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5922.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以署長,本席在這裡說,賣社所創造的,要補貼的,你們中央和地方要去說好賣社的權益,賣社的補貼絕對不可以走,以上感謝委員,這靠我們不會去減少租金補貼戶的這樣一個權益啦我們是從業不標進的是,好謝謝好,謝謝歐美會委員的諮詢沒關係沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5938.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5939.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
下一位我們請黃婕委員質詢好謝謝主席我們先請部長劉部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5959.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5983.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
好部長早先跟您請教一下因為昨天這個租金補貼地方必須要負擔一部分的自愁的新聞出來確實全台灣各縣市政府看起來都是苦不堪言大家開始跟中央反應甚至是抗議我也看到說甚至這個新北市的侯友宜市長甚至覺得說中央在惡整地方說神也是你鬼也是你 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5984.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6008.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那我認為這句話其實應該要原封不動的送給藍白的立委神也是你鬼也是你預算也是你砍的現在又跟地方說地方沒錢要再把中央要中央繼續負擔怎麼好意思呢所以我認為這個其實最苦不堪言真的被惡整到的其實是向我們高雄市的政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6009.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6031.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
為什麼呢因為當初我們高雄市八個立委在中央全力的捍衛預算也非常苦口婆心的勸他們說這個財化法重新劃分下去對地方其實也會造成非常大的影響所以錢分下去了事權一定要分下去像這種租金補貼的事情如果你現在沒有討論清楚未來一定都會受到影響當初我們都講過啦去年年底都講過啦結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6036.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6061.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
才化法還是在委員會裡面不到三分鐘送出然後沒有任何討論相關的事權分配就造成了今天現在的結果所以我不太知道現在出來假裝驚訝的這些地方政府是在驚訝什麼真的被惡整到的是像我們高雄市這麼努力捍衛預算結果現在又要我們地方高雄市要負擔20%的租金補貼的自籌款 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6065.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6087.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們在財化法裡面已經受傷最重了已經是全台灣所有地方政府裡面受傷最重的一個政府結果現在租金補貼又要我們拿錢出來真的苦不堪言的是我們高雄市所以我在這邊想要請教一下部長請問這個有一些地方政府說這個叫做中央請客地方買單這句話屬實嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6091.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6112.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
完全相反吧到目前為止到今年年底之前我們還是一樣按照地方政府來審查租金補貼申請戶的一個資格然後由中央直接撥款所以其實是中央政府跟地方政府一起努力讓租金補貼的政策可以加匯到目前為止是72萬戶沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6117.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6127.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那同時呢我剛也在回答委員的時候有提到其實在110年之前本來就是按照平均啦平均是中央負擔75%然後地方負擔25%的狀況只是在110年之後因為中央的稅收比較高所以當時的蘇院長就宣布說那地方就不用再負擔所謂平均25%的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6140.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6152.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
但是因為到了今年3月的時候財政收支劃分法已經又重新修訂讓地方政府呢獲得比較多的這個財源所以我們希望能夠回復到原來110年這樣子的一個平均是75、25比例的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6157.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6172.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
請地方政府在籌編下一年度預算的時候可以把它籌編進去我想目前為止我們的公文的表示也是用這樣的方式請求地方政府可以配合中央一起來共同完成租金補貼的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6173.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6193.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
絕對沒有什麼中央這個請客地方買單的這個問題我想甚至有些地方的首長有提到說這是黑箱作業那黑箱作業的話也要問問看縣市地方政府在審查申請者資格的時候有沒有黑箱作業我們不願意用這樣的角度切入我們相信只要是合格者 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6194.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6202.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
提供相關的這個證件出來的話我們都一律讓他通過的沒有所謂黑箱作業也沒有所謂的中央請客地方買單這樣子的一個錯誤的一個說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6206.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6216.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
好謝謝部長非常完整的說明喔那我在這邊還是要最後還是要幫我們地方的年輕人來拜託一定要幫他們請命因為這個其實像剛剛部長說的現在全台灣申請的這個租補貼的戶數是越來越多那以我們高雄市來說我們高雄市就已經有9.2萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6225.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6239.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那我在這邊雖然我是覺得說最後我們高雄市還要負擔20%我也覺得蠻無奈因為很辛苦啦這個才化法重新劃分之後高雄市真的變得非常的辛苦那我是希望說接下來無論如何調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6241.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6261.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
最後影響的戶數不能變影響的金額不能變這個可不可以在這邊拜託部長未來這個租金補貼不管是人數不管是金額都不會因為這一次的財化法的修正不會因為要地方恢復部分的自籌而受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6262.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6273.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
報告委員在租金補貼的部分的話內政部當然一定會非常努力但是我們也希望說那個縣市地方政府跟行政院可以坐下來談因為有關於財政收支劃分的部分不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6277.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6301.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
只限於租金補貼這件事情應該還有其他的項目只是說不是內政部來主管所以我們不便發言那未來怎麼樣讓在全部的這個預算分配上面呢可以讓福國利民的政策呢不管在中央跟地方都可以順利的推動可能就是我們最大的一個方向就像我們所說的這個租金補貼的政策不分中央跟地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6301.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6318.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
也不分他是哪一個黨籍的行政首長那我們希望說最大照顧的族群還能夠繼續照顧下去好 謝謝部長的說明 您講到一個重點其實最重要的是 政院跟地方政府大家要坐下來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6319.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6327.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那為什麼沒有坐下來談就是因為去年財化法修正的時候甚至我們高雄市的陳其邁市長親自來到財政委員會結果他坐在那裡也不讓他發言就這樣不歡而散就這樣三分鐘送出才會導致今天的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6338.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6353.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我講了真的是越講越氣啦這個已經講了一年了結果財化法造成的惡果現在是全台灣的人民都要來共同承受那我講我也是覺得替我們地方的年輕人感到非常的心疼啦好謝謝部長先請回再來我要跟我們署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6356.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6379.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
討論一下我們上一次裝修蟑螂的這個問題那也非常感謝署長後來我們坐下來細緻的把這個相關的規範又看了一次討論了一次那我認為是有比較明確的方向就是接下來我們會在裝修工程的承攬契約裡面把應記載及不得記載事項把它詳細的列出來那就目前國土署的版本有23條那我要問的第一個是進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6380.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6394.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
因為其實從去年1月就已經把草案公告了可是到現在一年多過去了這個草案也沒有新的往前的進度這件事非常的可惜到這中間可能都還有新的受害者在產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6398.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6425.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
感謝委員的關心的確因為我們在去年公告以後市莊工會也有提出非常多的意見基本上他希望我們不要訂出那麼多嚴格的規定但是我們認為要保障雙方的權益應記載不得記載事項一定要把這些內容宰明清楚那我們從去年的4月就請他們開始表達意見但是到現在都沒有市莊工會也還沒有提出來那我們已經重新再發函給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6426.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6429.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
要求他在這個月底一定要明確的表達他的意見否則我們就會進行法案的審查會直接進行審查來發佈實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6435.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6457.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
好這個要拜託再跟我們市莊工會再多加的溝通因為其實像我們的這個住宅的消保會他們也都有給出一個我覺得蠻好的一個版本就是他們的契約書裡面其實是有一個第三方的信託專戶那就是等於是說消費者先把錢放在第三方的信託專戶那一部分一部分完成之後第一階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6458.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6482.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
進度完成了那再驗收再請款第二階段完成了驗收請款第三階段這樣陸陸續續的才不會說一次像很多受害者都是一次付了九成的錢那這個廠商拿到錢之後就落跑了那就消失了就失蹤了導致這個受害者求償無門每次都是這樣那我認為部分一部分一部分的撥款是非常必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6483.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6497.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
沒有拿到錢就無利可圖所以這個第三方的這個信託專戶我認為是一個可以參考的一個模式那如果真的做不到是不是也可以在契約裡面定的更詳細那其實在我看來國土署的版本裡面是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6499.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6509.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那分的當然就是分這個分期把它分的非常多期啦那我看起來業者會覺得反而是分太多期了對他們相對沒有保障但我認為這個信託專戶其實是對雙方都有保障因為他也保障你廠商拿得到錢啊讓你是可以確保說你只要施工我們就絕對拿到錢也不會說你施工完然後反而是業主跟你欠債 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6523.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6535.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以對雙方來說我認為都是加一層的保障我希望未來可以朝向這方面達到共識好嗎感謝委員 這個我們會再來內部再討論看看這樣的一個可行性好 謝謝署長 謝謝委員謝謝下一位我們請麥毓貞委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6552.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6556.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
謝主席有請署長署長有請阿文好 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6564.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6589.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
署長好 我們行政院在今年大到統三地方一般性補助款636億元讓許多地方財政困境首長聯合陳情當現在國土府卻轉頭要求地方勇於承擔租金補助的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6590.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6606.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
但是呢就算依据财政收支花分法的新法的地方自治事项的精神所以请教一下地方没钱是中央砍的中央又叫地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6607.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6609.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
製草經費,請問這個是不是一邊砍錢,就一邊要逼大家來出錢做賊,賊的賊,怕人的,賊救人沒有啦,臺灣部局因為前陣子都凍結的部分凍結的部分也是,我們立法院這邊凍結的部分,我們只好先暫停 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6628.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6641.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
先暫停 先控制一些行動但是現在我們 另外一年我們現在解凍的部分有出來了我們也是隨後有通知電影政府完喻的一些相關的步驟 我們就照樣再申請所以並沒有說 像委員說的我一邊又不讓他申請 一邊又要求他申請不是這樣 我們剛才說的那是 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6646.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6649.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以我們如果是財化法新法要要釋憲中央要急著拿它來當借口來卸責6月16號再講 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6663.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6671.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這是我們電影政府,我們電影政府六島裡面有五島的審判單位比較簡單來說,希望我們出一個公文,否則他們的主席單位沒辦法照這個部分來編所以當時我們這裡的台北的集資,比較快發出來說後面有一個禁錮但是呢,確實全部都要等,最好我們主席總署這邊所提供的這個收支發分的這個完結 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6688.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6693.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
最好再來做處理所以當然是這個原因並不是說我們這次就需要求他一定要馬上就這樣做所以我們要叫委員了解六月十六日就是要這樣說要加席工加席工所以向委員報告我們當然是在這個加席地方政府也是認為說如果加席這個新的收支劃分法出來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6714.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6719.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
當然要重用這個分擔比例的部分 他們也要負責這85年的務職要變的時候 他們就要提早來塑膠這件事所以過程中就是大家在行政作業上都要先塑膠美女的務職要怎麼變的時候 大家互相來做一個因應跟調配的工序我想這問題要做一個順序那不是要跟我們說 要跟大家說 因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6740.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6743.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我們地方的首長 大家都來跟您要求跟您討論所以我們想說 好 這個部分就希望說我們要去討論因為地方的錢 地方自治 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6759.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6765.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
地方的稅務啊地方要直接給地方嗎這個就是一個觀念嘛地方的稅務地方的錢要繳回國庫對不對我們這邊要怎麼樣在地方來去溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6778.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6780.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
要怎麼幫他倒三天 不可以說今天我們捏的錢也是地方的 也是地方的政府來去幫我們把關 幫我們收稅還有地方的一些企業來去找中央我們中央才有這個錢嘛 對不對 不可以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6796.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6801.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
這中央我們砍的是中央該花的錢我們沒有砍地方 不可以說拿地方來開刀我們的主要的目的就是希望你這樣做我們感謝委員 因為確信了喔 一百一十一年進行原地就是中央跟地方 大家都有一些分配而已中央 平均是中央75% 地方25%這樣來分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6821.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6831.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
當然一百十一年到一百十四年呢當然是因為我們當時的行政課錄到我們的稅積剩餘有比較多所以希望改造中央來轉押負擔但是現在因為財化法中心分配之後還是中央會經營的減少所以我們是希望回合到一百十一年進行反正中央跟台灣那裡全部有所有人有分配第二就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6847.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6865.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這絕對不是中央請地方來負責的這個概念因為在這個所有的審查規定當中地方政府是負責審查跟協定中央是做調查所以有一些手段可能不了解實際的行程很難進行所以會跟他說這都中央在處理的不是 事實現在是地方在審查中央來負責調查而已好 我聽話 但是你大家都是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6874.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6884.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
你說這樣就是...所以本來台東風都有一個問題當然把你每個做回來啊你不要再...所以我們要再問第二題過去中央因為你剛才講的我們是知道說你有在處理有在做事情我們領導你再好好做 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6898.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6903.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
中央跟地方合作我們國家才會興旺第二個我要去問的是說我們韓澤租金補貼補給就是擴大成效要提升但是我們就是因為大家都會擔心聽你說完後但是大家擔心說財政壓力說就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6920.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6926.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
地方自治但是我們中央的政策也不能說讓地方這樣子去買單也不能說因為我們的政策要求是300億來去補助我們地方但是地方現在要求的變略所以我們希望說我們中央要勇於 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6940.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6943.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
承擔這個不是一個政策未定推責任的問題還有我們公開講的就是說不是突擊但是看到地方就是砍錢我們也覺得說還遠遠高於租金的補貼的承擔的額度啦中央怎麼樣當作就是視而不見呢我們希望就是如果我們中央不想發就是要講清楚如果要發 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6970.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6981.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
就是要補助諸夫補助的,就是要讓我們年輕人他們就是有願意這樣子去做,不能說的,說的多少都沒有人有感受到,所以變成這樣子的話,人家會說 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6988.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6993.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
中央就是吹冷氣在說而已 地方做到要死年輕人要企業也沒有 這樣叫什麼 失德了所以我們希望說我們財化法明明訂一般補助不得低於七年但是我們政院卻公然違法刪減補助所以在這個部分我們希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7014.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7040.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
不要再一直在講說在野黨癱瘓預算我們的國土數量一方面就是財化法就要自救我們這邊又要刪這樣子的話去沉默所以我們要有正當性的像你剛才說的我們就是要理性治國正當性的互相來去討論不要每一件事情都是上電視大家都來跟你 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7042.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7043.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
以年輕人的租金補貼 我想大家都共識 租金補貼的總額不能減我想這是大家都共識的大問題 我也不會去訴求要減少補貼的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7072.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7078.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
所以你們中央的經費一定給地方讓地方來去付給我們年輕人是這樣子嗎 其實本來在補貼的部分一定會照這樣的方式繼續來執行但是呢因為受限財化法中央的確現在未來財源也可能會不足所以才會提早跟地方政府來討論這樣只是這個財化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7093.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7095.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
又說要釋憲 這邊又說柴化房 到底要不要給嘛就是給他通過再給錢才說嘛不能就是說所以我才說就是 做柴跟發柴 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7110.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7117.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
行政單位英文都要先做好準備啦我想不管對一種結果我們都要先做好準備我想在行政部的這個行政英文有一樣的手法當然保障我們大家租屋主的這個權益我們現在要的就是大家都說年輕人現在願意工作願意在外工作為了打拚所以我們希望真真的去補助我們年輕人真的是他的這個部分租金的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7140.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7146.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
但是我們租宅的部分也是一樣租金我們也希望租房子都有問題了不要說再結婚生子現在呢租宅法也是一樣我們租宅法依據我們的租宅法我們的修法報告政府說14年到 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7166.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7171.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
21年預算,預計就是新建13萬戶的社會住宅但是截止114年的盤點出業,就是9.4萬戶的土地而已所以還有經3.6萬戶的土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7187.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7191.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
所以更令人擔憂的是說行政院節省經費唯有為核定土地購地的支出預算801億的費用蔡英文已經把人騙八年了我們賴清德在上一年而已就想說再騙八年這樣會不會太慘所以我們請教一下我們的租宅土地在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7215.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7221.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
還有預算不合定是否代表我們政府繼續繼續騙年輕人讓我們年輕人又住不起等於就是沒有活路啦所以我們希望就是說我們中央這邊規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7231.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7238.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
住宅租金是否有真正的反應真正的讓我們是真的我們不要倚仗你看啊我們這是倚仗的%數但是我們年輕人一個月只有三萬塊倚仗的%數要怎麼倒下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7249.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7253.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
所以我們希望真正的負擔不是你們的定價而是平價的租宅才真正的解決我想委員大家有看到我們林口社宅的這個定價方式啦其實現在續約都已經完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7266.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7293.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那而且新的住戶滿六年以後新的住戶都住進去我們一樣滿租率到九成多那也跟各位也跟委員報告就是說我們的分級制度其實現在幾乎大概各都都已經跟我們都是一致的這部分我們在這個這個禮拜的部會議通過以後就會來發佈那第三個其實中央的社宅已經陸陸續續都完工了那在新一波的這個招租也在這個月初都已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7294.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7308.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
開始進行招租所以中央的這個社宅的政策不會打折而且會陸陸續續在這幾年快速的呈現我們每年大概都會有4000戶到7000戶的速度呈現出來那所以這個也請各位也請委員還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7310.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7319.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
社會各界都不用擔心中央在這方面的速度會很快而且比地方速度快速度很快我們實際場刊就覺得沒有像你說的那麼快因為時間的關係我們看到的是土地現在都沒有你說租路又可以達成所以你把這些資料給我因為我們去場刊就看到就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7335.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7342.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
很慢都還沒有蓋好但是呢你們就是說八年後就十三萬戶蔡英文沒有做到賴總統這幾年我們陸陸續續都會開始出來所以我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7348.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7353.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
當前的政府不是照顧啦是卸責中央削減的補助卻要求地方資助砍責任這個雙標我們就看得很清楚希望你真的剛才你講的落實住進補貼看似是擴大但是轉嫁給地方的財政所以結果我們年輕無法地方無錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7373.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7375.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
政策不能只是就是要寫稿而已我們是要落實落實不要是寫稿或者用講的所以財政法不能成為就是我們推責任的藉口讓我們的行政部門要回去討論要去檢討如何不要再砍錢要逼錢所以剛才我講的不要就是這場 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7400.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7400.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
也請...也請...也請...也請...也請... |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7426.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7430.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
好 謝謝苗立正委員的質詢 下面我們請黃建斌委員質詢謝謝主席 謝謝我們請劉部長劉部長有請郭委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7454.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7466.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我們今天討論的是公寓大廈的這些問題不過本市這邊有另外一件跟土地爭議有關的議題也想要來跟部長就教那這個是最近台東縣許多農民非常關注的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7468.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7492.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們上個月行政院大動作的宣布說要重啟工地放領的政策並且從那個宜蘭大南澳地區這個80公頃的台拓土地開始事辦那講這樣的聲音其實全國各地都有那這個是許多農民跨世代都在爭取的權益我想絕對不是侷限在特定的地區不過很一樣到現在我們沒有看到中央有更進一步的這些作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7494.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7522.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
從這個三七五減除開始工地放飲還有耕種有幾點這三項重要的土地改革政策目標就是希望能夠促進台灣的經濟發展那尤其是這個工地放飲的部分就希望讓實際耕種的這個農民能夠成為土地的所有權者而不是世世代代只能當電農我想藉由工地放飲也可以激發農業的生產效率同時我們可以改善農民的經濟狀況還有生活水平促進我們社會的穩定跟發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7523.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7545.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那我國中過去到現在工地放領大概可以分三個階段第一個階段就是從民國37年到65年實施的這個耕者有期田他希望目標能夠繁榮農村安定社會不過後來這項政策到了民國65年就停辦那第二個階段是民國78年專案辦理台中縣示範林場等三處的土地來放領 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7546.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7560.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
第三個階段就是行政院在民國65年停辦公立放年之後有很多的民眾在抗議因為有許多還沒完成放年土地造成權力不公所以行政院在民國83年修正公有土地經營及處理原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7561.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7583.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
在符合一定的條件底下辦理放零不過後來因為921地震還有台師颱風等等的災害行政院基於這個國土保安及富裕的政策在民國94到97年之間逐步公告公有山坡地平地耕地以及養殖用地不再辦理放零所以到現在公有土地全面已經全面停止辦理這個放零 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7585.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7611.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
不過工地放領到現在大概20年的時間各地還是有許多的農民不斷的在表達希望中央能夠持續的來推動落實這個還地漁民的這個政策那內政部在95年的工地放領檢查報告裡面也有提到說他也反對政府停止辦理工地放領因為認為這樣對農民農民會對這個政府的信賴跟期待會落空甚至可能會引起反彈抗爭那如今看起來內政部當年這個擔心的事確實現在也在發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7615.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7626.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
以台東縣為例 台東縣山多 坪縣少我們台東縣依據公有土地統計全台東縣有34.7萬公頃的土地其中公有地占了30.2萬但是我們台東的土地公有地占了87% |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7632.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7650.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那涉及的中央管理機關有財政部、國防部、交通部、經濟部、退府會、農業部、園民會還有台糖等國營企業那這麼多的管理機關也會造成台中縣土地複雜程度遠遠超過於西部那有一些公共土地的使用甚至從它從光復的時光復前就一直延續到現在我們說這個土地是三代人 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7652.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7669.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那因為法令的限制當這些長期實際在這個土地上耕作農民他只能不斷的繳租金卻無法擁有土地的所有權請記他可能面臨甚至可能面臨在土地會被收回的狀況被迫拆遷那這樣的情況對於農民請可以看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7671.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7689.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我想對於行政院宣布從宜蘭大南澳地區開始試辦公共土地放寧我想這對很多所有管治的農民來說那都是對於工地放寧都燃起了一線的希望那這樣我們去年農業部也有公告說我國的糧食自給率是30.3%創下18年最低嘛那蔬菜同樣也是創下10年來最低 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7693.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7706.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那公有土地的放民不僅可以讓農民有更大的這個動機投入心力改良的自有耕地那也有機會能夠提高我國的糧食積給率最重要最重要的是可以解決這些土地長年以來的歷史糾紛那 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7709.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7738.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所以本集在這邊要具體的建議我想內政部是不是可以從宜蘭從宜蘭大南澳台拓土地工地放領為例開始檢視現行的工地放領工作的要點我們會計地方的意見進行後續的修正我想既然行政院都已經大動作的宣告要重啟工地放領的這個政策我想中央該一視同仁絕對不會因人設事也不是因地設事啊工地放領是由上而下的權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7739.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7763.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們中央不能把這些都帶到我們的地方建戶喔我想必須聽到我們基層的聲音我想內政部作為工地放領法規的這個主管機關更是責無旁貸那我想希望劉部長你能夠承諾在一個月內邀集相關的機關來研商重新來檢視我國工地放領這個政策還給實際耕作的農民這個公道實現我們的土地的正義沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7766.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7784.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
感謝黃委員的關心黃委員的關心是沒有錯其實有關工地放領的政策我們也多次跟行政院的院長報告所以才會有5月6號的時候行政院已經有合適有條件的放領國有土地但是是以平地耕地為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7785.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7798.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那台東地區呢到目前為止呢我們所累計出來了以台東為主的部分在那個台東的這個工地放齡的平地耕地的這個放齡統計呢大約是608.84公頃那成都人的數目大概是752人那當然了這個裡面的條件就是要以民國65年以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7806.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7817.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
已經有租賃關係的部分黃委員非常清楚這裡面曾經有兩次是由行政院因為颱風的關係所以停止工地放領要重新評估所以我們從1948年開始到現在的2025年當中不管是專案放領或是補辦放領或是停辦放領或是三次重新評估放領的部分院長有指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7832.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7856.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
要全台灣有關於這個工地放領的部分全部重新來檢視那現在我們正邀集包括這個農業部也好或是包括財政部的這個國產署甚至包括那個教育部的台大實驗林這幾個有牽涉到這個工地放領的部分因為有的是平地耕地有的不是平地耕地那甚至有些是以前是漁權或者是農權的部分全部要重新檢視但是我也要跟委員報告除了在 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7861.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7869.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
散落在各個不同部會裡面的這個公文書之外我們現在最大的困擾就是剛剛委員有提到可能他在工地放領已經歷經兩代三代但是我們還是一樣如果他能夠保存當時他工地放領的相關的文件資料的話我們會根據文件資料的一個部分來處理有關工地放領的部分那也就是說我們會依據行政院所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7889.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7913.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
當然先從大南澳的放領先開始那在處理的過程當中這程序上面有什麼困擾那我們也是陸陸續續在收集不同的意見當中那所以呢不管是工地放領或者是說其他的要回給他這是他自己應該有的這個權益的部分我們正是在努力的斟酌當中那有關工地放領的所需要的部分包括預概算 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7915.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7944.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
或者是包括我們要如何去確定我們當時的這個工地放嶺的時候他的這個公道地價或者是土地的價格這些呢我們正在盤點當中其實是非常努力但是因為試射太多所以也請這個委員了解這個狀況所以部長這邊是不是可以趕快我們在一個月內我們不可能馬上我們一個月來先找相關的地方來談談像我提到的台東的土地太複雜撤棄的部分是多而且我們台東百分之八十七 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7945.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7964.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
整個關 八十七八都是公有地 那整個開發都是出的報告 報告委員公有土地跟公地放領就是以公地 耕地為主不太一樣我知道我的意思是說 我的意思是說這些地是存在很久那台東的情況又跟西部我們了解 你聽我說你也知道嘛我們台東八十七八都公有地 跟西部的情況不一樣 我的心情 我的單位就多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7966.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7982.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
單位設計的單位是多嘛所以是由內政部來主導我們來邀請這相關部來討論接下來怎麼樣來推動這件事因為農民看到了宜蘭這件事情之後又重新燃起希望那就是這十三代人的期待啊三代人的期待那希望我們能夠來解決這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7983.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8003.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
報告委員內政部應該處理的方向就是我剛所說的我們已經邀請財政部農業部包括教育部相關跟工地放領有關的這個部門都在做統計當中而不是只是談一談那大概多久會有一個初步的答案要再多給我們一點時間啦我們等一個時間嘛等一個時間我剛才跟委員報告我剛才講過他這裡所有的資料裡面有的已經古了 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8008.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8021.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
甚至有日本時代的文字那這些東西我們如果沒有盤查清楚的話就直接對外宣布我想這樣對公務部門來講會有失公務部門應該有的公正性我們已經有找過了因為院長已經指定我們要找這些不同的部會所以已經開過很多次會但是現在是在盤點公務部門跟你所說的據說當時想要再申請工地放寧的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8039.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8051.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
他們的文件資料在不在 他們所說的在不在 甚至啊十年前二十年前他的地樁正不正確 這個我們都要去看如果出問題 他的爭議要如何處理我們已經現在在處理這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8055.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8060.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我們還是一樣,我們現在可能出列的也是一,平地的工地放寧為原則就是說自己手頭上有租金的,你不可以所有的公有土地全部放寧,怎麼會這樣啊我們可以都刷一張,白頭就借啊,這個不必擔心像我們的阿祖早期在山谷那裡睡覺,這個都在山谷吃啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8082.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8091.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這樣跟委員報告那個法律跟法令從這個1948到現在已經將近七八十年了那個那時候的法令的盤點還有適用範圍我們還是要一一來檢視因為當一個政府部門你本來就要取信於民你不能說人質 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8103.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8113.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
東南區當時的法治的部分跟現在的法治的部分跟可以適用的到底在哪裡我們是很努力在看這些舊的文件資料但是還是要給我們一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8115.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8134.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那會後我們是在持續來保持聯繫因為這件事情其實 台東會相信就是如果那個委員有不同的想法或建議的話我會請我們的同仁到委員辦公室跟您說明一下現在的進度好不好因為您是在台東為主啦我們現在說的是全台灣人所以不一樣啦我們也是希望說台東的社會可以重新建立因為畢竟我一開始說的台東的情形跟西部是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8142.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8165.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
有關是地形也好 柑橘的土匪也好 都沒有學生所以學生的選擇就更多了所以這一定要跟部長報告但是我也要跟委員報告 目的事業的主管機關都不在內政部所以目的事業主管機關他們要點頭那當然還是由行政院的高度會來做這個所以用鄉長他的 當時我們來政府是主要是我們來找來合調嘛因為牽涉的部會太多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8170.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8191.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
阿我們現在就在合調阿 我們這次開了五遍以上的花啦 給委員謝謝 感謝部長啦 部長那個台中的鄉親會期待很久啦 我想你保育委員一直在看我這樣啦 我說得更快也沒關係啦沒有啦 我要請我們的同仁 再去給委員請你台中所關心的部分 幫你報告好不好謝謝部長 謝謝承諾 謝謝部長 謝謝好 謝謝黃金斌謝謝黃金斌委員 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8200.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8214.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
也謝謝李博一委員的等待,下一位我們請李博一委員質詢部長先休息,我先請署長署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8223.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8238.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
謝謝內政委員會回歸正常來討論這個公寓大廈公設典礁爭議那還有這個住宅法的審議那其實我要先對於這個我們設宅其實也有出現一些問題來跟署長做一些政策的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8240.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8256.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
台中的社宅他自己蓋的社宅在2023年的時候被台中審計處發文要求改善的內容是說他的工程使用進口劣質低價的磁磚影響公共品質這個東西為什麼會是審計處來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8262.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8287.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
所以我覺得我建議國土署這邊我們有非常多的社宅現在全國正在興建那政策上應該不會到審計處來發現應該是由國土署相關的這些單位在不管是在設計或者是在建造或者是在驗收的時候就應該有發現這些相關的事情尤其有大量的這些中國進口甚至可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8288.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8293.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
進口到台灣來變成國產的這種現象希望國土署可以來解決這個問題不要到審計處來署長感謝那過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8301.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8327.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我們的作業是這樣就是住入中心負責辦理設計跟這個案例是台中市的我說明一下國土署的做法目前的做法都是我們自己中央的社宅大致上就是國土署是擔任所以主要的PCM那有些案子是擔任監照那我們在這過程當中其實都有一些嚴謹的標準那國土署也都會在過程中介入所以不會只有住入中心在做國土署也在後面做 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8328.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8356.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
實質的監督所以過程當中我們的這些廠商的這個廠牌的這樣的部分我們大概會都按照過去國土署在辦理公共建築的標準完全都一致那這一點過程不會改變當然要防止這一類的部分的品管其實很關鍵就在說你的場驗跟實際的現地施作的驗收這兩件事一定要落實因為過程當過去有比較多的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8358.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8380.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
行政單位過度信任廠宴那但是會忽略了有時候廠宴跟實地施作的廠牌有時候會不一致這點我們也會來繼續來要求好謝謝謝謝署長如果說這個要求要包含能也監督到地方政府自己蓋的這個社會住宅我想這個是我們要持續去努力的方向好接下來我們其實今天都是講這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8383.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8401.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
整套其實就是講居住正義也就是說從今天的排審是排審公共設施的典交其實在上個禮拜內政委員會考察高雄社會住宅的時候也講到了一個很重要的點 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8403.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8430.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
附近的居民、里長等等都會反映這些社會住宅的一樓的公共空間是不是應該要作為各方面各方面的使用那在聽取地方意見的時候其實住族中心也盡量把這些納入其實很重要的一個觀念我覺得我可以接受花敬群董事長他對於社宅的公共空間的概念就是說社宅的公共空間它不只是這一棟社宅的公共空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8431.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8447.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
它是整個社區的公共空間走進這個社宅不管是它的日照、公托等等的它全部都是整個社區可以融入的空間這個是必須要繼續的來推廣的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8448.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8474.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那我在這邊也要邀請劉世帆部長重拾設宅853戶已經即將要完工落成那部長不知道什麼時候會來看那高雄的居住正義我必須要講一下今天大家在講的租金補貼來看一下現在目前我們國土署內政部國土署把這些縣市的這些負擔的比例是寫在這樣上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8475.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8502.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
高雄的委員還是覺得不公平啦不公平的地方在哪裡高雄的社宅其實是全台灣規劃蓋最多高雄的社宅規劃蓋最多就是為了讓很多必須要去租房子的人他有社宅可以住那高雄的規劃最多卻高雄在這個財化法之後拿到的補助最少 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8503.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8525.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
高雄的委員最挺中央的預算,高雄市政府在裁劃法拿到最少的補助然後最後高雄的租金補貼的比例,卻跟桃園差不多卻跟台中差沒有很多,我覺得這些都是不公平的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8525.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8553.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那這問題都出在哪裡?出在我們財劃法的時候並沒有把這些事情拿來討論財劃法只是劃下去並沒有把租金補貼這個到底中央要付多少地方要付多少拿來討論我相信如果要討論的話不會是今天這個結果所以在這邊必須要來提出來對高雄的不公平之外我也要批評拿最多的台北市我也要批評拿最多的台中市 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8554.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8576.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
台北市財化法多拿400多億再租金補貼只需要多拿18.8億他多拿400億喔但是他租金補貼必須負擔18.8億他居然說中央在欺負他我覺得這樣不行啦這是金孫嘛這金孫搶錢不辦事踐踏年輕人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8582.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8585.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
太不合理了這個我想要請部長來回應部長我重新說一次台北市在新的才化法明年度將多拿400多億現在內政部的這個比例要求台北市租金補貼負擔18.8億蔣經孫居然說不公平這不是搶錢不辦事嗎這不是踐踏年輕人嗎部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8611.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8621.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
是 到目前為止台北市在六都當中申請租金補助的大概是最少的所以它所要分擔的比例就是18.5億左右而已18.5億對於財政收支的統籌分配款最多補助的台北市來講其實它應該所佔的比例不會太高更何況我還是一再強調我們從今年開始地方上在申請租金補貼的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8641.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8651.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
就是地方政府審查跟核定的那中央只是負責做抽查看它裡面有沒有資格不符合所以對於蔣市長昨天在議會或是在公開的場合裡面在批評中央的部分我覺得我很難可以接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8659.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8673.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
因為我認為說租金補貼本來就是中央跟地方政府一起努力那你們通過了這件名單其實中央政府都非常友善根本也沒有特別去刪那既然沒有特別刪的話需要補助多少在115年到今年之前幾乎百分之百都補貼幾乎百分之百都給過但是現在中央確實碰到 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8680.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8706.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
3月的時候的財政收支劃分法過了以後對於我們來講負擔的比重太高已經沒有裁員的基礎之下我們希望回復到原來110年以前的這樣的比例其實並不為過但是最後怎麼樣做可以比較好的這個比例上的分配的話恐怕還是要請這個行政院可以邀集地方政府一起來討論那我們都會按照行政院的規定來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8707.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8736.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
謝謝部長其實這些都是財化法的時候應該要討論的事情部長你請回我最後再請請教這個署長一件事情新清安還有在執行嗎對新清安執行到什麼時候我們是到這個明年的六月底之前我們六月底過後我們就不再建議國土署要找央行現在目前有很多還會不斷的還會不斷的出來因為現在銀行在 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8737.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8745.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
核待的這些過程裡面你不斷會傳出有一些年輕人他過去或者是他已經申請親親安那現在核待不下來的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8747.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8770.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那何待不下來的原因當然有很多那其中一個年收入會被拿來做放大的討論年收入到底多少適用新青安我認為國土署跟這個央行要有一定的政策明確的讓這些可能即將使用新青安的這些購物的民眾可以清楚的了解這些到底我到銀行帶不帶得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8771.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8796.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
根文報告啦 因為這的確都是財政部跟金管會在掌控啦但是就我的了解的確沒有所謂的個人的年薪的這個問題那當然在相關的授信或者是建案本身的問題我想那個都是財政部跟金管會他針對這一個授信的這個狀態還有這個查核沒有沒有 我跟你討論的不是財政部金管會這邊的問題其實就是說租金補貼還是編在我們這裡嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8800.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8819.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
是那你會看到大量的租金補貼的需求降低的原因是因為在那裡省不過嘛那我們既然要繼續推這個政策那裡省不過的話確實需要做一些詳細的討論不是只有用銀行的水位來討論還是要為了這些購屋民眾來想一下了解這個到時候討論的時候我們會反應好謝謝謝謝李博弈委員下一位我們請吳啟明委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8836.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8840.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
主席我們與會同仁請我們內政部長 劉部長有請國務委員你好 部長 部長你好因為過去才我房沒充分大家來溝通來做事 現在我看這幾天媒體都在報導各個市長以及我們的縣長 大家都 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8863.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8876.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
針對我們的租金補貼 大家提出的意見我們過去因為我們的租金補貼全部都是我們中央嘛 前額補助過去三四年以來因為我現在本事關心的就是說在新北市新北市有租金補貼有三十萬的領口但是未來這租金補貼這是讓我們很多買家買不去因為你知道在土匯區 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8890.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8912.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
家裡的廚藝都很高,所以不是在年輕人身上去負擔的你自然不停地維修,這就會造成在年輕人,造成在沒有處理好的人,他們的創意是非常大的所以說在這個部分,因為過去才我發現,大家沒有充分的溝通,就都冒然去通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8913.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8933.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
在造成後面延伸的問題所以我也拜託說補充既然跟我說不管台北市新北市以及我看全國的各縣市有意見是不是說大家借下來大家來研究未來這個租金補貼一定要再實施絕對不能說因為這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8936.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8943.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
有補貼這個部分來維修 這樣對我們這個像是說比較艱苦的人來做事的人 他們的壓力這對我們整個社會都不是很好在這個部分 我請保重應該保重 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8954.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8967.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
就在各縣市大家來召集一個會議看要怎麼共同改觀不過委員 我想你對收尾程序都非常了解啦跟年底的進程啊 那個租金補貼的進程並沒有改變但是呢 我也要跟委員報告因為萬年一開始啊 要用新的財政收支為分範 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8976.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8993.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
新的財政收支劃分法明年上路那如果我是說預算他其實是3月的時候就公告了那明年開始要編列115年預算的時候呢我們現在是一六都裡面的五都就除了台南市以外他們都電話邀請我們的內政部國土署可以給他們公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8996.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9012.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
讓他們在編列下一年度縣市地方政府有關於租金補貼的時候要不要把這一個編到預算裡面去所以我們國土署發的公文是一個通盤性的請你們要先做這個請那個縣市地方政府在籌編預算的時候先預設準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9015.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9030.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
因為新的財政收支劃分法上路那我們的理由就是新的財政收支劃分法其實分攤給地方政府的收入是有增加那中央政府自然就減少那既然中央政府減少的時候呢我們很希望說可能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9031.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9047.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
大家都有共識的話是回到原來111年之前當時我們在做租金補貼的部分中央跟地方平均起來大概是75比25的比例來做編列也就是平均來講現實地方政府可能要負擔25%的一個租金補貼並沒有說我們並沒有要求資格要限縮 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9056.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9075.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
沒有這件事情 只是說給錢的就分成中央跟地方要一起共同來負擔大概是這樣子那他的財力的分級的部分的話呢行政院的主計總處呢 我們很希望他們重新來考量會不會按照以前舊的 譬如說以新北市來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9076.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9093.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
新北市的這個財政的考量呢是要負擔30%總共30%但是呢因為在新北市裡面申請租金補貼的戶數非常的高那這樣子的話會不會不公平那這個就是要以每個縣市政府呢要跟行政院主計總署坐下來談那我們會以行政院的主計總署的一個規定跟他的說法為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9099.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9105.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
來要求各縣市地方政府來做配合共同來負擔租金補貼的總共的這個預算好 一律保證這個部分我本身是要求說在這個租金補貼的部分不要去萎縮至於說資格沒有限縮他們來同仇分配他們要提撥多少這就是你們要去跟他們合調我是本身的要求是說租金補貼絕對不能少 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9128.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9145.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我們目前為止申請的資格並沒有限縮對 因為我看我們新北市新北市就有30萬的人口來申請所以這個費用最多所以這點我們本身要求一定要再比照再來呢 好 博長你先回來我問問書長來 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9149.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9175.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
委員好好 師娘因為我們的全國超過30年以上這老舊房子本市在這裡 總共500戶500萬戶尤其在我們新北市所佔的比例非常高新北市比例非常高尤其新北市的老舊房子都是公屋房子是你看看這塊土層在本市的村區 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9178.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9191.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
土生在地上有多少列入圍爐所以說他這台埠應該差不多有一半都是公寓的所以說在公寓的未來,我們要說他的老舊房子要來做補償這個經費,我也要求可以更延續性、更正確 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9199.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9218.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
讓我們很多老舊房子 他們可以來做補償不然台灣在地震層上面隨時會發生跌宕的問題是 感謝委員這個靠心耐震補償的部分雖然前幾天的申請量不太大但是我想這是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9219.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9225.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
對我們這個勞工戶 這麼大方展的一個機會尤其要讓他的結構可以做到安全這部分我們的經費都有減少啦 第二就是說這個勞災研修的部分是 其實是今年這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9234.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9241.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
在這個特別務省裡面有希望來提出這個劉宅研修就是說我們結構的這個邊沟是比較沒問題但是你是我們這裡古的房子四樓到六樓這個古公屋的時候這個部分我們會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9249.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9257.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
提出一個補助的方式就是說希望你在公共區域的安全比如說你的樓梯你的外牆你這個走廊你如果想要改善讓它安全性更高的還有包括你部分的設備比如說你舊的電線要換舊的設備要換 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9270.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9276.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
用這個安全和無障礙的設備來做一個改善 我想對住在那裡不管是老人還是年輕人他們的環境會變得更好 他們會更安全我相信對於這個古厝 它沒有像剛才剛才剛才剛才的狀況下可以建造更好的環境 讓大家更有管理所以齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9289.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9298.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
因為大部分在他們老舊的公寓,大部分都是因為經濟能力對,搬不走的所以說在這種,它的結構已經超過30年了,尤其過去都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9306.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9317.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們現在都吃辣肉嘛,以前都是蒸餓的嘛所以說,它這個危險性,這都是我們國土社區平台要去做協助甚至說補助,還有有很多老人家,大多四、五老的,他們又沒有電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9323.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9333.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這種的部分,是他們把我們納入電腿的部分,要怎麼來偵測?因為我們後面都有防火箱嘛,有那個麒麟地嘛,這方面是不是要怎麼來做獎勵?他們可以說,如果是大行動不方便,他們可以說這樣,會比較便利啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9342.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9349.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
有啦 感謝委員 開始拿這個都是很好的建議啦 開始地方政府像台北新北現在也有在補助這個本我們在這個老宅延壽計畫裡面我們也有在努力 希望大家這個公務 大家如果合得來有共識可以來設 這個相關的設地的標準我們已經都慢慢放寬了啦 所以現在很多其實條件有 只要合得好我相信可以來補助 他們來做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9371.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9372.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
電腿的這個設計對這個大樓的使用比較方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9375.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9386.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
好,這部份喔,我們現在電梯設立台部份都要在外面的麒麟地,你不可能在裡面跑,所以說外面喔,這很多我們的法令,要修改規定放寬,讓他們可以去設立這樣是,好,好,好,謝謝,感謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9407.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9410.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
謝謝 吳清明委員 下一位我們請丁薛忠委員質詢好 謝謝主席 請我們部長 劉部長來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9429.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9432.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
副總統辛苦你了我們剛才都說到這個出國租的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9440.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9455.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
來政國發文讓我們國管局要求我們國管局黨一五年開始要來分擔這個中央擴大這個租金補貼專案計畫以這個財力的分配分裂政府要來自籌百分之十高達五千六百六十四萬要跟我們國庭請教一下這跟我們地方政府溝通過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9470.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9490.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
報告,報告委員,這個部分,在我們發這個公文的時候,是因為六島裡面有五島,都要求內政部的國土署要發行,而內政部的國土署發行不可能只發到六島,所以我們變成全部二十年的官司都共同發出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9491.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9498.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
然後在今年2月的時候,有先跟每一個縣市政府的這個行辦人員先跟他說過因為2月的時候,應該每一個地方政府就知道說財政收支有分寬,沒有重新來維分有可能到時候,在自籌款跟財力分級上面可能要回復要不然中央政府沒有辦法因應啊,負擔將近兩三百億以上的這樣的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9517.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9521.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
是這個股份,這項進出這是我們中央我們租到3年,3個月的擴大租金補償會計為這月一至十三年就開始了剛才我們股長在說這個財政收支發文法這6個月才來執行,其實這個股份 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9542.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9544.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
這婚姻管政府應該會接受但是問題就是今年一般股市已經短差到37億再來我們這個同儲分配款我們每一個月都有10億塊現在也短差10億 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9563.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9573.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
所以當這個我們一般的股市和同儲分配環境都相對一直短差距下我們這個政府若有改革後來我們這個財政組織分化下去之後我們需要加在地方政府來共同負擔一些我們中央社會的政策今天我們現在是針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9587.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9592.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這個擴大租金補貼的專案有可能再來這個天然災害農作戶的工作也有可能要求地方政府要來協助這個工作基金的過分所以當中我的意思是一件混亂事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9603.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9609.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這個股份上,大家要去跟地方政府討論報告委員,有三項部分,我給委員做一個說明第一項,一般補助款的部分跟我們現在內政部國土署在處理的有關於租金補貼的部分是完全無涉因為我們租金補貼的來源是來自於住宅基金,這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9628.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9638.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
所以一般補助款現在的一個執行狀況跟跟地方政府的一個一般補助的一個項目的範圍的話呢那個內政部大概就是以這個行政院或其他單位為主那第二個我知道是我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9647.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9653.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
醫療啦 未來我們每年我們行政院的這個醫生我相信一定會越來越多不可能會減少當越來越多的狀況之下越來越多的狀況之下 我們會來執行我們中央政府的國防政策國防政策當中我們國國會我是希望啦希望說中央要和地方政府這個溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9675.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9677.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個國分一定要持續一定要持續,阿不要說用一個行政命令下來之後,地方就經濟就一定要來做什麼,有時候災情會吊火像這次啦,像這次我們這個一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9693.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9696.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
一貫鼓注款這齊齊關閉到六四團體啦關閉到教育啦關閉到我們這個地方建設公務人員的薪水這都關閉得到像我們現在我只說婦人關就好我們婦人關齊齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9710.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9714.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
今年通過今年的一般分配款,我們都建在二省內地,建在二省內地,價值案件都已經落實至今,因為我們現在超過37億6億澳,現在價值要發表的基礎建設, |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9730.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9734.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
都行動案,我們集體社會福利,我們可以嗎?孩子的教育,我們可以嗎?還有其他一些功夫、另外的薪水,這些我們也可以嗎?所以我們醫生,今年醫生是歷史以來已經最高的,當這個醫生的運用,希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9754.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9756.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我們來進行而已,希望我們其他國國會可以跟地方政府做這個溝通,持續溝通的一個比較好的方向,大家共同為了我們貴姓的福利努力,這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9772.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9795.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
報告委員 委員如果是說今年的議程 今年的議程的部分在我們最近兩三個月以來 大家都有本來統計的部分已經都改動了所以能夠進行的部分 除了刪掉的部分 能夠進行的部分我們現在都在進行當中那委員所關心的可能地方建設 牽涉到我們自己內政部份 我們其實也都有經 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9796.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9812.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
告訴相關的這個縣市地方政府就是繼續往前再繼續執行那我們今天所說的租金補貼希望地方政府希望地方政府來做配合是明年的預算是明年的預算不是今年的我們希望是在假設說以今年的狀況來看回你 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9818.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9829.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這樣醫生有辦法下去治療這樣地方政府要怎麼來治療我不知道委員所說的今年的醫生看美女是什麼...以今年的狀況來看明年的醫生經歷啦對啊 啊 今年...美女...美女若是關於政府...今年的醫生在今年...今年經歷了啦啊 今年經歷了 今年要求地方政府經歷了結果現在都扣扣掉了齁啊扣扣掉了以後...現在...很多...很多建築國家都退工了 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9849.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9858.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我只要向委員報告 委員你剛才說的是一般性補助款的關節但是住宅基金本身不是 住宅基金本身是專案撥補行政院如果在這方面因為財源受限了 他沒有撥補的能力的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9865.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9871.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
當然我們就要找地方做來分配的事情剛才我聽到國長說可以請我們地方政府美女可以把這個國分先給建立在議席裡面因為地方政府在台北也是到阿哥會一定要把美女在議席上出席因為也要經過議會選擇啦所以地方政府可以急著說是不是我們趕快有一個公文讓他們可以有這個金額去準備希望啦 希望都可以我相信我們來政府國 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9893.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9897.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
你講的話一定是很明顯的一定是很明顯的希望中央行電規劃的都可以更加順利我們的目的都一樣就是替貴姓來學校來做好人群好感謝國長感謝蘇長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9918.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9919.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
好 各位辛苦了 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9946.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9974.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我們今天專案報告的主題其實是討論公寓大廈的一個點交相關一些爭議那就本期的一些了解我們在地方走動其實點交爭議它不是只是單純的消費糾紛因為很多地方如果點交的狀況沒有處理好它其實會衍生變成公寓大廈管理的問題有一些人認為點交要趕快給它過因為我要動之公共基金有一些人認為我們堅持要在訴訟上討個公道然後就變成各派各系就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9975.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9992.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
衍生出來然後甚至住戶之間彼此傷害所以點交的問題不會只有單純消費糾紛但是會影響公寓大廈的管理那點交的大概幾個問題我分別請問各個單位第一我要請教的叫做點交的不平等條約的問題我要請問我們的地政司啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9993.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10012.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
現在規定裡面其實針對這個買賣預售屋的契約裡面其實有所謂的因記載事項有談到所謂的一個點交的一個權利義務關係也就是說你點交的時候要完成哪一些的程序但問題是你在不得記載的事項裡面其實本席認為這個規定上面是有一些疏漏的 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10013.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10035.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
為什麼這樣說呢因為有很多建商就我們在第一線的了解他就會在這個預售屋的買賣契約裡面去訂定一些比如說這個你看螢幕上面就有寫啊如果賣方啊沒有在指定期限內會同檢測或移交超過幾天幾天那我們就自動認定點交已經完成那管委會未來就要自行負責這些公共 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10036.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10061.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
設施的管理維護保養等工作右邊這邊寫管理委員會或成立負責人推選三個月內要趕快來處理移交事宜如果沒有辦法成立管理委員會或推選負責人以至於不能進行公設典交那我一樣要視為已檢設移交完成買方要無條件的解除賣方在共有部分的管理責任換言之他可以在買賣企業裡面自行去定義所謂的不平等條約讓這些買到預售屋的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10063.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10088.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
還來不及去處理這些事情的時候他就自動點交那這當然就會衍生後面的爭議嘛對不對那我想請問一下地政司啊你們管理著不動產買賣契約等等請問這樣子的一個不平等條款有沒有修正或再規範的空間跟委員報告一下非常感謝委員委員提到這些狀況其實我們現在每年都有請地方政府去做預售屋那個稽查計畫包含我們跟消保處也在做一些共同的契約的稽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10089.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10107.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那委員提到這些不公平的事項的部分其實我們有發現所以我們有去整理缺失事項包含像這種事項的部分我們已經有訂定一個缺失事項的部分去做一個以後稽查的一個重點那包含建上如果有違反這個部分的話我們都會有一些罰則就是6到30萬的罰則而且要求改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10110.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10128.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那這個部分的話委員有提到不得記載這個事項會變成一個通案性的一個修正的部分所以那個未來我們也會把一些太陽的部分看是不是檢討進來做一個不得記載事項你現在自然要回答OK表示你有關注到這件事情但是你看以罰則來講跟你的動作來講我認為是不成比例的 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10128.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10148.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
也就是說我花很多的精力去要求地方政府去稽查啊然後稽查到有所謂的不平等條約罰款我剛剛聽最高講30萬如果你建商可以搞定一個公司的點交對不對你可以省多少錢對不對所以30萬對很多建商來講恐怕是不痛不癢的事情所以正本清源之道其實還是把這個買賣相關的契約的規範做一個嚴加的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10150.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10165.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
既然地政司有討論到所有的樣態那這未來的一些修正的方向我請地政司我給你一個月的時間你要研擬一個報告因為你總要有通案性的一些檢討作為嘛用什麼樣的方式來改進去避免公社裡要出現不平等條款這第一個問題市長可以答應嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10166.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10181.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我們先一個月之內就委員了只是先把我們發現到的一些事情跟一些做法你還不想喔我是想說不得記載事項你有沒有一些建議事項規定我們來討論一下這個東西怎麼做修訂嘛充分討論之後再決定可以嗎好市長請坐再來我要請問國土署 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10182.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10200.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這個我要問國度署的問題是我們要今天討論典交的第二個問題叫做典交球員兼裁判的問題還有我們典交公共設施專業性的問題這個剛剛我們張宏督也有提到對不對其實典交在實務上我們都認知到最大的現象就是我在預售的時候他一些沒有賣出去所以他基本上屬於建商的 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10201.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10224.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以就會按照區分所有權的這樣的比例的席次產生所謂的第一屆管委會第一屆管委會如果這房子沒有賣完建商派他當然很容易的取得多數的這樣的一個優勢建商派我又是管委會的成員我又自己又要負責點交那我變成球員兼裁判那很多點交的過程之中他可能就會變異形式那少數派也就是真正買住戶他可能會團結起來可能抗議或什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10226.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10245.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
第一屆官會開始就互相傷害打官司這就是公立大廈管理問題嘛對不對那麼這個求援兼裁判的問題我們該如何來避免如何避免社區我們要確保我們的社區其他區分所有權人相關的一些權益署長你有想法嗎跟委員報告因為上次大概有提啦齁那 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10246.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10265.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
目前來講最大的狀態就是說我們要去適用到相關的罰則的話因為所謂的保留戶在實體上來講他還是屬於個人戶啦這關鍵其實是在這裡啦所以應該是說怎麼樣去具體去確認這個點交的過程當中他做了相關的檢測是正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10268.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10288.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
那這一點我覺得是實務上第一點要再去做我們還是要去強化這一個機制啦因為過程當中的確有可能因為就是保留戶太多他對於相關的檢測的部分是比較粗糙的是啊是比較粗糙的所以怎麼樣去強化這中間的機制這是第一個那當然也有人提出來說用第三方 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10289.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10303.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這件事情那第三方這件事情的話我們就要回歸另外一個事實是說第三方真正的責任是在哪裡那現在坊間的業務公司當然很多是在做這一件事但是我們也看到有些是做超出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10304.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10330.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那所以上次委員有說這樣的建議以後我們也有內部討論也有找建研所在討論這件事情也就是說是不是就有關除了建築法規以外的項目建築法規以外的項目那但是對民眾來講他認為很重要只是說就房間項目我們是不是有找建研所來談說是不是哪一些我們請建研所就這些項目去進行所謂的標準的認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10331.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10357.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
作為標準的認定那這樣就可以提供給第三方他是做這樣的一個方式你剛剛回答都是一些實務上在就如何讓這個點交這個過程的公信力可以提升嘛讓雙方可以這樣這是一個解決方式沒有錯但我們今天問的問題還是求人兼裁判的問題嘛那其實剛剛張宏祿照理在質詢他提的概念很好嘛就是說如果他是有未賣出或什麼的他應該排除試用在比例上做修正主管對這個想法這個概念的想法可是很多實務上他是已經登記是個人啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10358.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10373.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
登記資格關鍵其實是在這裡我們針對這件事情來做一下研討我們要怎麼樣去避免產生這樣的狀況好不好這一樣我們花一點時間我們給地震室一個月我也給你一個月因為未來我們可能要提供大家管理條件的修正是不是要透過修法的方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10373.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10396.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我請國土署預作準備好不好那再來剛剛我講的專業性的部分還沒專業性的部分我們桃園這幾天剛好在議會在開臨時會很快會通過我們的公寓大廈輔導管理條例自治條例那裡面裡面他其實有談到就是說點交當然會很多時候爭議但因為點交你整包卡住的時候他其實會變相影響這個公寓大廈裡面的公共設施一些安全比如消防設備等等那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10397.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10417.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
台灣另外關注的地方就是說相關比如說消防又涉及專業的這些公共設施點交的時候他會要求要有具有國家相關專業技師證照的人員來參與點交讓這個點交的公信力上升其實就是剛剛署長回應的其中一部分精神上是類似的那這樣子的一個修法的方向這個請問從中央的角度你怎麼看待 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10419.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10433.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
應該這麼說如果他針對的是安全部分而且是法規有的部分那我們長期知道的是比較多的爭議是出在法規以外的法規以外這個部分我覺得在他們的條例裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10434.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10463.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
其實如果真的要去我們當然是樂觀其整但是我是建議他在真實在落實上來講要把法規有的跟法規以外法規以外是我們剛剛討論的那一部分嘛比如說全員監裁辦怎麼處理法規以外包含說你檢測的項目不是在法規裡面的那事實上實務上也是出現的確有在檢測這些項目那這些在條例裡面需要去釐清我只做這個法規內的法規之外的不屬於我這支條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10464.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10473.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那可是實務上會遇到民眾還是會需要這些項目比如說我這個水瓶有沒有拉冷漆我這牆壁所謂的聖水 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10474.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10498.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
他或者是所謂的軍列他的意義是什麼但是這不是在法規內的可是民眾會很在意這些那個是消費消費端大家會在意所以我才會建議是說我們也跟今天所討論是不是說要給某些項目一些標準不要讓大家到最後留以各說各話甚至影響典礁我覺得這是很重要的一個所以你說從重要的角度你看其實說除了安全的部分有技師認證那是一種好的方向之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10498.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10509.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
你如果可以設立一個客觀標準讓大家可視參考也是一個好的方式嗎對那如果這部分我如果要行於比如說公寓大廈管理條例的條例我建議是 或者是修正可是它會涉及到是母法因為你的母法建築房建築沒有這些項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10512.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10528.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
沒有這些我講的這以外的話我們是給他一些標準讓大家執行有一個依據就好了來如果再改善這部分我一樣請你會有提供書面報告好不好這個方法上不管你政策的方式或者是法律的方式我們要有一個判斷參考可以嗎好謝謝署長請休息一下消保處 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10531.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10550.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我們現在針對這個買賣相關個別專有的部分有沒有其實有一個5%保留款的規定嘛它其實就是為了避免預防消費糾紛嘛對不對那為什麼公共設施的部分沒有相關的一個保留款的一個設計如果在沒有的一個情況之下你怎麼去保護消費者的權益因為我們剛剛就討論供應大家的典交很多時候是買賣雙方認知歧異很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10552.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10568.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
但是目前大家實務上看到的狀況都是非常偏向建商的嘛建商有相對好的保障跟福利不管是不平衡條約他可以偷搞對不對他可以搞球員兼裁判對不對那我作為房屋的買方或所有權利人我權利是被拆散的我要對抗這個東西很難他就衍生消費糾紛 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10569.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10595.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
有沒有什麼樣的機制可以改善這樣的狀況是 謝謝委員那目前因為5%的保留款是針對這個專有部分的這些公用部分是沒有所以我們在今天的報告裡面的有一個建議是像說也許也可以評估看看說是不是針對公用部分也有一個交付保留款的不過這個部分因為這個制度有要變革可能還是需要內政部再洽一些消保團體還有一些業者一起來討論有沒有這個可行性或者有其他的措施來保護這個消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10596.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10613.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我希望蕭保惠這邊相對積極一點就是說你們打算在多少時間內開這樣的會議去去釐清這樣的狀況然後變成一個務實可行的政策我們通常是我們通常我們先或先跟內我們其實跟內政部一直都有非常好的配合那我們有些建議我們就會提供給他們那他們一開始會找一些業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10615.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10634.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那看如果是需要修公益大廈管理條例的話我們也會協助那如果是需要修這個預售物的應急載或不得急載事項的話我們也會跟他們做比較深入的討論一個月內提相關的意見好不好我們會跟他進一步討論好謝謝好謝謝那這個其他人請回國土組長再麻煩你一下下對不起我收個尾就好好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10635.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10646.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我們最後一個要跟署長討論的概念就是說因為現在點交的狀況點交不成現在實務上剛剛遇到的狀況客觀產生的後果除了這些交費糾紛之外就是我的住戶沒有辦法拿回公共基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10647.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10670.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
當初大家要提撥公共基金其實就變成要求建商依法提撥對不對依法提撥公共基金就是建商的建設成本嘛那既然是建設成本 再商延商他一定到時候轉嫁給消費者換言之這些公共基金到時候羊毛出在羊身上其實還是有買房子的人去進行負擔那如果公設點交卡關以致公共基金沒有辦法動用我以台灣市111年這個審計處提供的報告來講就快10億的金額卡在那個地方沒有辦法有效動用 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10675.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10700.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
後來我們桃園直接很瘋狂他直接講說如果你真的十年啊給你十年屢次輔導都不願意配合者我就只好把他充公那這其實也是蠻奇怪的但是他看起來是一個沒有方法的方法那現在也越多人上次我們開公寓大廈管理條例公聽會的時候其實有在思考就是說公共基金跟公設典交要脫鉤處理如果要脫鉤處理的方式是不是一個好的方法如果沒有的話我們要怎麼避免公共基金因為公設典交卡關的問題我們最後一點點時間請署長簡單回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10703.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10728.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
的確目前我們還是朝向還是他得把這個管委會還有相關的這個典交程序是完成因為所有的法規現在扣合都是扣合在這個角度身上那因為你不成立然後你不完成這個動作其實你的公積金就會違反他使用的一個目的所以你看母法規定其實會在實務上地方出現一些斷裂對對對所以我才會說這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10730.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10757.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
在實務上來講他不是適合去用修法的方式但是我覺得可以一樣可以跟地方政府再來討論實務上地方政府願不願意來提供一個協助譬如說他現在又有一個條例可以去做的話那不是不是用成立經驗而是有類似長期是不是願意用信託的概念把它放進去那也確保大家的一個機制存在那裡面但是這個當然實務上要去操作的話很可能還要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10758.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10787.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
相關的財政單位或是銀行要去談這些事情今年是公寓大廈管理條例30週年嘛大家都希望說有一些合理的調整那我當然認同不是所有的方法不是所有的改變都一定要透過修法的方式來處理沒錯它也許是政策也許是行政命令等等但是我的意思是說總要有很明確的方向所以我們今天排這個專報其實希望大家來及時廣義啊所以這幾個問題啊剛剛我提到這幾個大的問題都希望各個單位待會去之後會後盡速提供相關的資料作為未來深入探討的參考可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10788.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10799.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
好,大家辛苦了,謝謝謝謝林學廷召委的資訊,也謝謝吳署長那接下來我們請徐欣怡委員好,謝謝主席本席,請署長吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10823.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10849.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
文豪署長我們就持續剛剛一直在討論點焦還有我們驗污的點焦的部分我剛剛看您的回答還有看我們這次今天提的報告內政部提的報告這個問題應該幾十年了吧可是到現在您都還沒有具體的然後現在這個問題還一直出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10851.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10865.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
本席也很感慨,我21年前擔任議員在議員兩任的任內,剛好大家知道竹北從第一棟大樓蓋到現在5000棟,大概有5000棟 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10868.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10888.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那當初的第一棟竹北市現在大家知道竹北市的房價跟台北市有拼當時的第一棟就是跟住戶就跟建商住戶跟建商就是這種公設的爭議到現在二十幾年還在訴訟那我那時候當議員的時候我還碰到一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10890.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10918.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
某一個社區出問題他的管委會主委找我然後我們就共同去了解結果原來這位主委他才剛買現在出問題這一棟他之前出問題的就我剛說的第一棟竹北的第一棟然後這兩個建案都同一個建商所以我不知道今天有沒有人提這個有關建商黑名單這個有沒有什麼機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10921.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10940.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
你看同一個人他在這一戶發現出問題了他可能受不了他乾脆沒有多少民眾像他可以馬上再買第二戶他就再去買結果第二戶也出問題後來我才發現同一個建案他沒有注意到他是看喜歡他就買了 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10943.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10966.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
現在到現在到現在20幾年後了還是這樣所以我們今天我很感謝朝偉拍這個專案這真的是在台灣只要是這種大樓新建然後這個非常蓬勃的這個區塊這問題很大所以我想您先回答一下這建商黑名單你們有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10968.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10976.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
有什麼樣的機制嗎我不是要對建商怎麼樣而是你今天黑名單你要想辦法跟我們報告因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10979.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11002.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
因為我想這個不動產業的這一塊那當然他現在很多所謂的黑名單他並不在於就他表現不好嘛對他關鍵是在這一類的話他所謂的保留戶我們之前也都有沒有沒有不一定叫保留戶啊就是建的不好所以一堆問題啊我知道他過去會因為有保留戶的關係掌控了這個管委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11003.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11026.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那他也強制做了點焦那在點焦完以後這一公社陸陸續續出問題所以這一類的話我們現在比較難是因為因為他不是真實的在管委會管理的主導者背後他是主導者但實務上他不是主導者我指的是表示他的建案就是建的 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11026.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11040.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
很有問題啊那個爭議特多還有公社常常出很多的問題或者是才交屋一兩年什麼地磚磁磚然後各種問題或是公社沒有照當初的設計圖的這我們碰太多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11043.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11071.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
所以這為什麼在過程中要有所謂的典交確認那也有所謂的公積金跟保護那等一下我時間已經過很久這是後面我要跟你談我現在說的是就是這樣的建商就很多啊你們要不要弄一些機制比如說他的爭議案怎麼樣怎麼樣的時候那應該要對相關的他應該怎麼樣或者是怎麼樣讓民眾防範民眾那真的很多民眾尤其 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11072.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11100.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
現在全台灣啦我相信接下來的中南部很多新開發區有沒有南科或者是像我知道台南或台中現在建台中一直有啦像這種新開發區很多也是什麼外地的年輕人到那邊工作然後他對那邊也不熟他就去看房子但是呢他常常就買到地雷鼓買到地雷鼓像這怎麼辦好啦我也不能浪費時間我看你這個給你那麼多時間也答不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11101.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11128.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
你兩週內給我們一個回覆好不好好那接著這個當然這防範你答覆的時候你連這個相關點交的這個防範你一起再來就是剛剛也提到專業的燕屋的制度那我現在有沒有可能有專業的燕屋公司我們政府核發執照或相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11129.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11151.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我感謝委員因為現在坊間的業務公司因為建築法規包含到史照有他應該要檢測點交的公設項目包含管線他都有一些標準但是我們實務上看到現在的專業的業務公司他檢驗的項目其實是超出這一些的我現在的問題是現在沒有坊間並沒有政府認證專業的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11158.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11179.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
因為本來他在相關點驗的過程當中你就是可以委託專業的技師因為技師是政府合法執照的那專業技師他來幫你做檢驗而不是驗屋公司所以為什麼一般來講驗屋公司他會去找有專業證照的技師來成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11182.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11183.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
那所以那我就反問無照的厭汙市場你要繼續讓他擴大你有什麼方式防堵嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11190.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11211.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我也說明一下甚至有些我們知道驗屋的他搞不好就跟業者他們配合的所以我才會說其實重點是在於合位驗屋的標準那我剛剛也說明了合位驗屋標準證你們就要想辦法所以今天不管他是哪一類的他只要有合格的技師 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11212.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11224.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
合格技師執照那他驗的項目有法規內的你就按照法規的標準去執行那當然沒有問題那現在坊間的現在驗物有沒有基本標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11225.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11244.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
所以建築法規裡面有相關的標準但是我跟委員報告現在的狀態是有些是驗超出這些項目的他也在驗那我們是認為說驗這些超出法規的項目當然不代表消費者不認同他消費者有些是認同的他有些項目是認同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11244.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11267.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那這一些我們也怕長期是不是會亂了就在市場亂就是說某某業務公司主張了一堆然後大家消費者就要掏錢買單但這些有些是法規以外的也不一定那麼需要所以我們會再來討論你講那麼多我只能說交務潮來臨你制度還在沉睡沒有沒有我再說明一下我們中央可不可以有一些積極的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11268.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11293.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
所以我才說明一下就是說我們會找建言所就坊間現在在談的業務標準我說明一下就是說因為本來是在法規以外也不該歸我們國土署來做這樣的一個處理跟市場上的確有這樣的現象的話我們試著找建言所因為建言所是技術單位大家來討論看哪些項目是可以訂出一些標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11294.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11316.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
訂出一些標準讓他有一個依循而不是任由業務公司去開價去去訂項目那這樣的話可能會讓這市場比較正常一點我想這部分我們會也會找監事來討論那今天這兩點我請你們一定要積極來做你給我回覆的時候也給我期程好不好好不好意思最後我可不可以請部長上來一下部長有部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11322.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11347.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
部長今天有關點交還有驗屋我們希望內政部積極來進行內政部盡量來主導接著本席想就租屋補貼的部分我剛剛有聽到您說當初蘇院長就是因為我們稅收增加所以把地方的25%就拿到中央來 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11349.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11375.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那現在稅收還是增加嘛所以也不要再把25%再加租地方但是財政收支劃分法有做大幅度的修正對 財政收支劃分法所以在這邊本席也跟你這邊我也來提出我們的見解那因為你們可能跨部會行政院會找你們開會財政收支劃分法我們希望地方政府他了解地方的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11375.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11390.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
所以有一些地方需要的經費讓地方政府這邊來提供所以像我們現在在地方上就看到我們中央各部會相關單位都到地方來像財神爺這樣不斷的這邊補助那邊補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11394.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11413.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那其實有一些如果是屬於地方的人民團體地方的需求包含假設像教育還有一些辦活動的那其實地方政府最清楚地方的需求那一個部分你可以給地方所以不要一句話一個大帽子財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11413.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11422.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那財政授權劃分法它中央跟地方一個權責大家劃分我也認同是 但是當時在立法院裡面討論的時候並沒有把事權的檢討討論在內事權那事權檢討如果討論在內的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11430.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11444.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那大概就是中央要負責的部分跟地方要負責的部分大概就可以討論清楚那在財政收支劃分法的時候包括到時候的分配比例是怎麼樣的分配法的話我們要按照新的這個財政收支劃分法的範圍來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11446.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11474.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
那當時因為市權沒有檢討那那個我想委員也有聽到我們的說法是因為五都啊那個公務單位都要求我們的國土署應該給個公文讓他們在處理明年度的預算的時候呢要不要把這個租金補貼的方式呢放到他們地方政府的預算裡面編列進去所以我們發一個公文是給全所有的22個縣市請他們參考那我請教中央針對財政收支劃分法整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11475.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11494.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這個要給地方多的好像三千多億那你們有共識了嗎哪些錢他現在給了地方以後你中央在對地方的補助的時候你的原則你們應該也是沒有一個具體的原則出來然後想到什麼就每一項都推給地方這樣也不對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11494.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11516.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
報告委員我想不是每一項都推給地方就是我剛剛所說的財政部對外的說法就是說稅收提撥納入中央統籌分配的比例是有多少跟多少但是我們在初估立法院所通過的財政收支劃分法在中央減少了經常性收入是高達3753億 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11519.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11534.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那各部會非法定義務支出的項目需要配合刪減是百分之二十八左右非法定義務不是非法非法定義務支出項目要配合刪減是百分之二十八也就是我剛所說的就是我們在大院裡面討論財政收支劃分法的時候事權的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11541.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11559.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
並沒有在財政收支劃分法的這個草案裡面解釋的非常清楚那因為內政部的國土署主辦的這個租金補貼是最大項譬如說我們今年為止大概已經有支出153億左右現在重點是你們針對財政收支劃分法新制 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11560.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11585.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
中央也沒有共識但是你就把租屋補貼把它列入這樣也不對啊我們寫的公文裡面就是說請他們要思考放到下一年度預算的時候可能是放入自籌款或者是一定統籌分配款裡面來做思考你可以把全文給那個委員參考我就是聽到你這樣講可是你中央對整個財政收支劃分法你也沒有還沒有一個共識說我這3700多億我到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11588.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11604.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
是用等於哪一些可能我在地方的補助要減少你只是想到租屋補貼你就要地方沒有沒有我想我們沒有那麼的倉促來做決定我剛跟那個委員報告的部分就是這樣子我們在今年年初的時候就有提到這件事情整個行政院有共識嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11606.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11629.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
不是我們在年初的時候就已經提醒各地方政府然後是今年三月的時候行政院要求我們跟地方政府就事權上面尤其是租金補貼來講的話要跟地方政府有這樣子的一個告知所以我們還是以發文的方式那你有沒有聽懂我的問題我的問題就是你中央你行政院要你們告知但是你這個的依據是什麼應該這麼說也跟委員報告啦為什麼地方政府也會急著過來今天如果說我們在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11634.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11640.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
他們要編明年度的預算所以狀況是說如果我們又拖到了年底才決定如果有的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11641.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11666.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
反而是地方政府會倉促來不及這樣反而會影響整個租屋族的這樣的一個權益我想我們都是基於保障所有租屋族的權益提早去告知地方可以的話先預先做準備那你也可以這一塊還是中央全權負責啊也可以啊我想到目前並沒有得到這麼大的授權或是在這方面但是還是要告訴地方政府要有一些預先作為啦好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11669.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11673.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
好 謝謝徐欣穎委員下一位我們請徐宇貞委員質詢謝謝主席我們請內政部劉世芳部長跟國土署吳興修署長劉部長 吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11691.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11700.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
本席要請教的是有關這個我們這次的300億元中央擴大租金補貼的專案計劃那因為這個計劃本來是從111年到114年4年的計劃那在去年就決定要延長到115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11708.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11733.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那當然我想不管是對於我們租屋族的補助從當時在政府的時候的12萬戶到50萬戶到現在賴政府的時候到75萬戶其實要租金補貼給我們的這些弱勢族群或是一些年輕人我們覺得是利益良善我們也都全部都支持不過剛剛講到當時的說法是由中央主辦不需要地方任何的配合款 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11734.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11749.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那要中央直接發給這個租屋族那這些白紙黑字目前還寫在行政院的新聞稿上也還在行政院的網站上面113年8月的時候核定的修正版本延續這個政策到115年那現在因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11753.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11766.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
你們今年發出這樣一個公文之後引起地方的整個的大反彈喔就是當時是說好中央要全額負擔現在就反悔要地方出錢我們可以看一下下一頁我們可以看到在114從111年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11770.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11787.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
扩大为300亿元的这个租屋补贴的方案到114年我们可以看到既然是说好的要由中央全额补助现在却要地方政府负担一定的比例请问是部长您做的决定还是我们卓荣泰院长做的决定 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11788.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11812.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
報告委員我想我們是依據那個貴院所通過的財政收支劃分法然後行政院的主計處要求我們在租金補貼上面的要跟地方政府來做一下不管是未來的比例的分配上面所以我們才會有這樣的公文那剛剛有跟委員報告過最主要是地方政府他們要籌編下一年度預算的時候需要我們用公文告知他們所以我們就在 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11813.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11841.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
6月12號的時候國土署把公文發出去給各縣市地方政府部長我們在推動這樣的一個社會福利的政策的時候要片面的變更照理說是要先跟地方政府溝通不過剛從您回答徐信穎委員講的你們是告知地方政府而不是跟地方政府溝通喔所以這個部分請問你們有事前溝通我們不知道嗎我們在今年年初的時候有跟地方政府先做告知我想請署長跟您回應就是告知嘛而不是溝通嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11842.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11871.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
也跟我們報告因為我們每一季都有定期的這個住宅租金補貼的一個檢討會議我們在今年主席總書通知我們以後我們就在檢討會議裡面都有告知所有的縣市政府可能要面對重點是要告知他們有這個狀況因為財政收支劃分法準確上路的時間我們當時都還不知道但是必須要讓地方政府有預言預念的空間那現在財政收支劃分法會在115年上路嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11872.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11873.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
對 那現在主計處他們在編列115年的經費事實上有已經出來要怎麼來這個部分要怎麼來編列嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11880.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11901.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
還沒有確定對 還沒有確定那你現在就要地方說我要三減你多少可是他預為因應因為他如果不預為因應到最後如果真的產生分配的話那請問他要怎麼預為因應呢因為明年到底要給他們多少是會依照我們立法院的決議來去做但是他要送給議會的必須要有這一個項目他先保留這個項目的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11902.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11921.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
到時候不管出來的結果是怎樣他總有一個科目但是如果現在完全不做的話就沒有那個科目可以列現在你們的公文給各縣市政府縣市政府是說沒問題我們全力來支持還是大部分的縣市政府都反彈說明一下因為我們上禮拜發出去那其實也是公文報告是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11922.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11944.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
六都有五都已經都打電話來了因為他必須要這樣做那也就是說大家在行政作業上都要有一個預為作業的空間存在我們來看一下那個地方補助的這個自籌款你可以看一下新北市是30%台北市40%台中市30%雲林縣是10%你可以看到台中市其實是高達21.77億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11947.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11950.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那但是呢根據我們今年剛剛說要刪減這個我們一般性補助款636億那各縣市這個會被刪減的金額以台中市就被刪減32.4億你在這個地方又要叫他自籌21.4億 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11963.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11990.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
七七億然後包括雲林縣來說你要他三減三十七點六億這個地方又要他這個自籌五千六百六十四億元雲林縣是屬於五級的財政的縣市喔所以他要他籌這五千多五千六百六十四萬元再加上你們三減他的三十七點六億元這不但是這個一幾年他撥了好多層皮你知道嗎這是兩個不同年度的因為我們今年的租金補貼我知道這一百一十四年一個是一百一十五年嘛都沒有變 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11991.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11995.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我知道現在是115年的租金補貼支酬但是會增加多少不知道嗎是嗎現在主席總書有出來他會依照我們立法會的決議嗎我們有時候對這個真的沒有信心啊所以跟委員報告為什麼地方政府會需要我們發這個公示他起碼有這個項目有這個科目在那如果是這樣的話為什麼地方政府會反彈呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12017.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12022.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
所以我才會想說 首長可能不了解事務長的作業首長可能不了解 因為今天來邀請的都是行政單位是行政單位來我覺得如果溝通好的話 應該是縣市長應該是會樂觀傾城 不會有這樣你這個財化法都已經要多給我縣市政府那麼多錢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12037.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12040.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那我可以負擔一部分那實務上就是因為沒有溝通好嘛這跟好像半路被土匪來露場街那種感覺一樣那就要看地方的這些行政單位有沒有跟首長去溝通我想他們現在心理上都有準備現在應該不是推給地方而是你這個計畫本來就是到114年就是都有全部中央買單然後呢到現在延長到115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12059.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12069.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
那是不是就可以用這樣的方式這90億就由我們的中央來處理因為這是一個政策嘛這個政策的延續就是這樣而且包括你可能會講說這90億要怎麼來其實我記得你們在刪減這個地方的一般性補助款636億的時候你們也建議地方說可以去舉債啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12079.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12081.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我想這是114跟115我們也沒有去講過因為這個不是一般性補助款的項目不是因為租金補貼當然不是一般性補助款我知道啊但是我的意思就是說當時你們都可以說沒錢你們可以去舉債啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12096.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12111.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那這時候其實中央政府我覺得也可以把這個到115年的這個租金補貼的這個利益良善的政策把它完備而不是說現在本來大家都覺得很好而且一直都是中央請客中央買單 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12112.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12127.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
現在忽然要中央請客地方買單而且是在最後的一年延長的一年不是只有地方買單中央還是負責最大的部分那我們只是回到110年前地方政府原來你們已經負擔了四年了在最後一年卻做這樣的其實我覺得對你們是相當不利那最後的時間我想要來請教一下再請我們行政院的消保處中處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12142.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12172.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
我也好我想再請教一下就是其實我們在這個建築業我們在建築業跟房仲業者為促銷房屋的時候我們可以看到會有不同的方式來製作廣告包括說宣稱有劇院啦有宴會KTV啦兒童遊戲區等公共的設施但等設施空間申請的用途常常都是用梯間或停車空間喔那已經涉及便跟使用然後建案廣告於事實不符導致買方 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12173.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12186.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
對產品產生錯誤的了解也違反了公平交易法第21條有不實廣告之嫌可以處罰五萬元以上兩千五百萬以下的罰還限時改善會改善者還可以連續處罰所以請問處長現行的法規對於不實廣告是以處罰罰還為主但對很多人來說買房子是人生的大事所以他們其實在買房子的時候公社 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12198.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12214.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
還有他們公設的這個到底休閒公設有多少也是他們買的一個重點那所以如果在這個時候就是公設違法或者是未完工要如何進行電交這樣的消費爭議其實相當的多那請問消保處有沒有什麼具體的預防措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12215.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12238.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
原則上如果是像這個公社違法的狀況這個依照公平法我們可能就會把查到有相關的案件我們除了跟主管機關說以後我們還是會去跟那個公平會來說明那公平會這種案子呢在裁罰案子上面其實是非常多的對我查到的資料也是在獎勵停車空間改裝作為公社使用的案件非常多那請問一下消保處這邊有什麼具體的作為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12241.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12259.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我們原則上是這樣我們一方面我們也會跟這個內政部會去做一些聯合的查核啦在查核面那法規面的部分呢因為目前有公民法可以處理那所以如果我們也可以再跟這個地政司在研究一下說有沒有其他的這個應濟財不得其人有沒有預防的措施因為我們明明知道有這麼多的問題有沒有預防的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12262.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12275.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
這個部分我們可以再跟地政司再討論一下就是說在應記載跟不得記載事項的一些法規範上面地政司市長在旁邊嗎對 在做一些處理那這個討論要多久的時間基本上的話部分就像 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12276.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12294.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
已經有公平法可以做處理所以我們現在比較著重的是在於執行面的部分所以像縣市政府跟消保署我們都有在做聯合稽查定期的聯合稽查你現在講的是執行面嘛我現在問的是明明知道會有這麼多的問題有沒有預防面的做法怎麼去預防這個問題有沒有這樣子的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12299.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12324.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
我們可能會如果法制面要加強的話我們可能會把一些常見的違規太陽整理出來給那個我覺得應該是不要等到事情發生之後我們才來做處置而是明明就知道有這麼多問題剛剛處長也特別提到說針對這個獎勵停車空間改裝成公設事實上有非常多這樣的案件明知道有這麼多的案件是不是可以我們給一些做一些預防的措施讓這樣的案件不要再一直產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12326.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12353.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
再跟消保處這邊討論一下那最後請教一下部長喔部長 請問一下就是有關公寓大廈公設的點交喔雖然有公寓大廈管理條例第57條的規範但是呢常常因為這樣子公設導致就是遲至幾年都沒有完成移交那這個部分也妨礙整個社區的發展所以請問部長為了避免一再發生這一個這個點交的僵局喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12353.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12368.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
內政部有沒有什麼更穩妥的方法可以來去處理保障消費者目前的機制確實像委員所關心的部分以目前的機制這樣子長久以來所累積的部分確實我們沒有辦法現在的法規上面就做很好的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12369.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12388.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那尤其是剛有提到說公益大廈裡面有很多建商他們的所佔的這個比例比較高的狀況之下有的時候就是求援兼裁判那所以對於單一的購買的這個買家的話呢他可能會有遭受到這樣的困擾那所以呢我們希望能夠用這個所謂的第三方機制的方式啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12389.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12403.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
第一個提供樣態請大家來參考第二個呢看能不能導入其他的輔導的方式來協助就是受到這個點交然後沒有辦法完成這個居住品質上面的困擾的這些人但是事實上確實不容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12404.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12418.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
因為按照現在的公寓大廈管理條例的管委會的行程通常在 尤其是第一屆的時候管委會裡面的行程大概建商居多那這一點從事困擾我們相當多所以我們現在的機制大概就是以比如說你請 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12419.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12433.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
他在契約上面把它寫清楚那如果沒有按照契約走的時候那可能要以這個民事訴訟的方式來解決那這個又是曠日廢時啦那所以就是會產生惡性循環這個可能我們目前碰到相當大的挑戰在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12435.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12452.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我想因為部長大概都知道問題在哪裡啊所以是不是請部長針對這個部分針對內政部的我們的各處的大家還有消保處這邊大家可以共同來去研究要如何去預防這樣子的一個典礁出現了這麼多的僵局來保障我們的消費者謝謝謝謝徐以貞委員的諮詢下一位我們請李坤成委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12467.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12470.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
謝謝主席我們請劉部長還有這個國土署的吳署長劉部長吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12475.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12502.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
委員好部長好請教一下有媒體講說政府有百萬租家庭的支持計畫從2024年到2032年要計畫增加要多蓋13萬的社會住宅內政部去年8月也有提出一個新建的計畫其中包含租金補貼包租代管都已經核定但是新建設宅的計畫還沒有被核定有這件事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12503.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12527.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
報告委員我想這樣子的一個說法太這個這個比較簡化你把它說明清楚我想跟委員報告是這樣就是說賴總統當然他會延續原來蔡總統所說的社會住宅興建的部分但是因為社會住宅的興建在過去執行的層面當中第一個我們變成是找公有地然後用公務機關的預算然後蓋這麼多社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12530.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12547.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
那這樣子累積下來到所謂的20萬戶或30萬戶的時候所動用到的公務預算是非常的龐大跟驚人我想你應該了解所以我們在財務槓桿的這個情況之下要重新思考怎麼樣可以多元取得社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12548.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12574.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那所謂多元取得社會住宅呢現在行政院也照會在協商當中第一個能不能讓這個私人的企業加進來譬如說本來是希望找這個所謂的這個保險的這個事業或者保險公司一起來加入第二個我們能不能看現在的國公營事業裡面他們原來就要蓋的這個社會住宅的話可以導入社會住宅另外一個有沒有可能透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12576.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12604.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
都更或者是整體開發計畫然後在自償率大家是可以接受的狀況之下讓他們很多私人的這個資金可以進來然後我們用分回取得的方式那包括可能會牽涉到這個榮獎的部分那這些大概有三四個以上的多元取得社宅興建的土地跟資金正在這個盤點當中所以我們朝著這個興辦社會住宅的方向並沒有改變但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12605.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12632.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
用公有的土地用公務預算來蓋這個社會住宅這個呢花費的預算跟成本確實是太高我們可能要做一下修正好那請教一下部長齁就是說你說這一個用公有的土地來蓋社宅的這個政策會做修正那其中有一項我先問一下現在有關於說地方政府他們如果說這一個整體的這一個開發不論是區段徵收或是做都更那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12633.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12646.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
這個我們有相關的規定要求他們有一定的比例比如說5%3%到5%要做社會住宅那這個是我們還要中央還要出錢給地方嗎還是地方他們自己要來就可以來蓋了 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12647.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12665.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我說明一下好了那當然我們是希望該社宅不會只有中央的責任地方政府本來就應該要擔負責任尤其整開地區在取得上相對是比較容易的那所以我們在這方面一方面要求這個地方政府要保留那有一部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12666.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12689.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
如果是在這個區塊裡面有國公有的土地那這個部分我們會優先整合進來來做興建那如果他是屬於地方政府的那當然我們會希望地方政府你要自己要優先來做那也不可以說全部都要丟給中央來興建我想這個部分中央跟地方大家還是要一起承擔責任那第二個就是說我們會先優選在區會比較適合 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12692.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12717.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
而且確定大概開發以後很快就會有年輕人會有需要的族群會進來所以我們會選擇確定就是適合的區位再進來而不是全面大灑灑的方式其實有些區位比較相對比較偏僻的那也不一定都很適合讓這政策的方向會朝這個樣子來做好那我請教一下署長那所以說現在關於這一個整體開發地區的用地我們還要再去買嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12719.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12746.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
因為我看到這一個媒體有講說我們還要花費800億然後在整個我們計畫的4成以上還要再去買買這個土地有這個預算嗎我們現在目前來講是希望就國公營土地的話國公營失業的土地的話那我們就優先採用會是用租用的方式租用的方式是那如果地方政府那我們希望他優先或是大家改用租用的方式來處理那這樣的話其實相對都是節省成本的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12747.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12766.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
所以就不用去買了就是用租用的方式對 盡量用租用的方式來處理那這樣金額就可以降下很多啦所以這也是我為所說明在多元取得的方式裡面這些都是其中的一種那也有一些用合作開發也就是它本來是希望朝向設定避障權的它是住宅區 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12767.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12795.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
那我們就是用勝地讓權加容積獎勵來多取得社宅這也是一種方法所以會用很多元的方式朝向最有利的方式來取得那我請教一下就是說這些蓋社宅的錢是從住宅基金來的嗎那我問一下現在住宅基金現在的金額還有多少說明一下我們到現在目前都是靠行政院撥補的所以每年大概都是到撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12797.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12819.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
兩百億兩百億這樣的撥補的話那有一些是從房地合一稅那有些就是從行政專案撥補所以當然會面對未來還是有財政收支花分法的一個挑戰所以我們也常常不斷思考多元取得也是用這個方式來降低整個住宅基金的一個負擔我這邊有個資料說113年的時候住宅基金的這個短處有達到152億 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12823.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12849.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
行政院都會撥補我再請教一下就是說除了行政院的撥補之外你剛才署長有提到說這一個房地合一稅那房地合一稅呢是從這個113年開始之後就是說至少要提撥10%給我們的這一個住宅基金那請問一下都有撥補到10%的這個這個他說不低於喔不低於10%喔一方面給長照一方面是給我們住宅基金喔那這兩年有撥到10%嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12851.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12865.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
到目前是還沒有啦不過院的這個目標是沒有變因為它那個部分是一個動態的因為它有一些會移到長照有一些撥給長照有一些撥到我們這邊本來就有規定說要給長照用要給住宅機器用啊所以它是用這樣子雙向再調整對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12868.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12882.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以我的意思是說長照其實都有都有拿到足夠的錢另外一部分就是住宅基金的部分的話我看這兩年都沒有拿到百分之十啊是不過行政院還是會其他的不足的部分他還是會用他 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12883.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12909.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
有夠用就可以了不是 因為就牽扯到就是說我們的這個租金補貼也是來自住宅基金啊是對啊 這是不是環環相扣的啊是對啊 因為我們住宅基金本來是說可以從一部分從房移和地稅裡面拿過來那也沒有拿到那麼多有 現在拿到 有拿到不到10%啦 對不對對那沒有拿到那麼多剩下就是變成說由這個中央要來補 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12911.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12926.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那就回到剛剛部長提到我們這個財務法新的財務法通過之後有3700多億下放給地方了對不對我們中央已經沒有這麼多的錢了所以就是說如果這筆錢租金補貼是從這個住宅基金那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12928.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12946.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
補貼就從這邊出去的話第一個你從房地合約稅這邊過來的錢就不夠了第二個你又從這個中央又有3700多億到了地方去那我們又沒有這麼多錢補到這個住宅基金嘛那所以當然相對的也會影響到說我們對於這個地方的租金的補貼吧所以這是扣在一起的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12947.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12961.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
對啊 所以這個關於這個因為懲罰法已經沒有辦法這個新懲罰法已經通過了那我是說關於這個房地合約稅本來規定說至少要10%給我們住宅基金的這個有沒有辦法去要求啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12963.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12983.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
報告委員我們會來爭取啦齁這個應該是到我們住宅基金的房地合一稅我們會來爭取但是因為行政院他們在撥補預算的時候他們也有考量到說我們以租金補貼為主的部分不夠所以才會每年撥補200億那200億裡面如果你用這個房地合一稅的話其實它就差不多是這個規模啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12984.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13006.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
所以他從哪裡的稅收撥到這裡面去是行政院主計總署他在做的這個裁量所以對我們來講我們收入裡面有這個Quota給我們那我們就很高興但是如果不夠的百分之十是按照法定應該給的話我們會去爭取對 還要去爭取 還說不低於百分之十呢是是好 OK 好 謝謝謝謝李坤城委員下一位我們請謝龍介委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13027.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13031.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我請部長跟吳署長部長署長有請部長你好我來看你啦感謝委員稍後來看你在這個你有去河雄去選港的時候有去講到柳安瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13056.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13057.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
太爛了 把你凍結起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13060.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13070.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
這數字應該是不對的啦 當然在正題我不會跟你計較我相信蔣委員你要聽我解釋 兩百億就是我剛才所說的行政院要撥補給我們的住宅基金的兩百億沒有啦 你不是這樣說嘛 我們那沒關係啦 就是說在這個租金的補貼到那個 你有說到這個兩百億 整個就凍起來啦 所以喔沒辦法 那沒關係 因為那是正題 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13089.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13104.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
你是政府官嘛 這點我不會介意啦就是說 政府官有政府官的公法但是跟實際的數字是差百五倍的這就是說 我也是跟委員講兩百億真的就是行政院要判斷主體基金的兩百億我們針對這個行政院司法的租金 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13110.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13120.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
在方園不會去刪這個籍嘛一般做少年人做主啊 一般做主的人我們怎麼會去刪這個籍我們都算一億四千六百萬那麼統計的部分有四十億億 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13124.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13144.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
這動機也都改動了,所以這兩百億就放在一百五百我也要再跟蔣委員說,兩百億真的是行政院要撥補給我們住宅基金的兩百億希望委員不要有不同的意見,因為我們現在也是根據行政院給我們的資料跟大家報告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13148.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13162.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
你下鄉去做政府官怎麼說我都把你捧到了你餓了你捍衛你的政權那不要緊但是來這裡我們就九孫輪孫嘛我們就現在說實際的這個財政修繕委訓法調整了後啊你們就是這樣 要吃雞尾魚你發一張公文叫地方要來蓋修其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13178.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13189.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
你當兵做 你抬不下行政議長來跟在野黨跟日本人報告說啊 林鄭月娥的財政收支會分割 本人接受啊所以 這樣就好了 這樣你現在落下公文 我都沒意見就變成國保委要來跟地方政府討論啊 我過去的步驟 多少錢那麼 高雄 這高中期 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13206.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13216.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
都想變國立的 因為你財政不好 中央把你吸收現在 財務法通過之後 你們要吸收多少錢這麼簡單的問題 你這樣倒兵走 武家魯昌昌沒必要 我跟你講 這租金補助 是一個敵情 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13227.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13243.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
有70%以上的滿意度啦在你們的執政裡面可以有這麼高的滿意度啊 獨獨多一條而已實在是這麼簡單啊你現在好好的把他抬到四樓 摸到大家啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13258.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13259.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
你這樣說,在惹麻啦你這來行,你老公這樣說所前創造銀行的時候那麼81年以前,我們都算補助幾乎10萬戶而已嘛13萬戶好,13萬戶,你現在75萬戶你阿莎、李大鋒、青人家、中央貿都你掛了,全課程都你收了你現在叫地方給你分攤 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13285.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13291.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
電風托機是統一分寸的這10萬至15萬號我知道我要負擔多少錢嘛結果你們不是嘛 你們一般用的75萬號你們單電電的 叫電風托機 你們扭一根頭給電風托機這是不通啦背後你們今天這個議題最後就突然說你們已經接受在野黨通過的財政修織委分法這我給你們簽訂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13313.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13317.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
要不然我們現在說這個,這3,753億沒辦法,你叫地方是要怎樣?一隻牛放兩隻肥,鄉頭沒錢啊,沒那種事情啊你中央政府,說你還要頂,還要頂,還要大碗又軟硬,世間有這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13336.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13348.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我們要向委員報告啦,電影政府其實大家都有需要,行政黨員都有需要互相來運營啦沒有啦,你這個公文我沒意見啦,因為這就是美女,你提早補償,但是這個事情受政府的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13351.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13375.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
中央行政院或是部長 這裡的一個卿卿每年這三千七百五十三億大概你們地方多少錢這麼簡單的事情你們今天倒兵走 走向社會動亂一個美好的政策 兩方美策 抵達這裡的人生殭屍結果呢 來不及這樣 炒狗狗 沒意思啦所以我給主席做一段時間 我說這個社會主席除了你在台南的時候 老總統這個起點 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13382.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13384.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
台南市的社會主席都去過了他的任內就是發佈我們這個宜居小棟還有一戶就沒有啦 你就跟人家說他的任內我的沒有啦沒有啦 我要報告 因為那個土地是我去請出的我知道你的請出 那個一戶就沒有 你還說不然這樣我後禮拜邀請黃偉哲起來黃偉哲說台南市的社會主席是對我做啟動跟開始做的我現在這樣是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13412.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13421.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
我的報告是他的人來有四天但是土地的出席幾位是我們在台北做的社會主席啊在你做書中站來這麼多天的人來啊他保守習慣所以開發出來給所有人 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13431.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13442.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
寶座大館 到目前為止已經是八萬五千幾戶跟你說去啦齁 但是速度有比較慢了因為怎樣 要政府去投資興建坦白說 興奮最大 你們每天在那裡摸著燒未來的二十年啦齁 我們台灣祖聯希望的人 威流下來會不動善的貨所有幾戶你知不知道你知不知道 請委員指教最快七十萬戶 是 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13461.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13485.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
七十萬戶啦 屆成年 屆成有繼續使用的 大概只有三十五萬戶所以在未來的二十年內 自然希望臨時所威流下來的不動善有最快三十五萬戶啊要怎麼把它們友好 運用 化為寶座代冠我告訴你 比你政府在那裡找土地 建設 發包 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13485.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13498.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
坦白說,好歷史很好阿葛委員報告,這就是寶座台觀正常,我們未來一定會提高這個藝術我現在要跟你報告,你知道你不是跟我一起贏我現在要跟你報告,寶座台觀的天馬就中了我現在要跟你講一個概念,我們來這裡不用討論社稷啦是十當情依情 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13508.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13523.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
社會主席是三百多有壓力啦台南高雄哪有壓力所以你就不會變好你說如果選擇做總統的時候做市長的時候 台南市沒有社會主席的壓力你要這樣贏 但是 以前當來因為網絡的擴散跟在生活方式 工業方式 商業方式的不同所以社會主席已經不是只有三百有壓力啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13536.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13551.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
變成全台灣大家都有壓力但是這個貨所優廉是因為我們南部發票的那麼多所以在北部的壓力會比我們南部更大所以你做一個中央的內政部的通調單位要怎麼解決這個問題做一個友好組員的分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13555.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13564.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
跟對地方幫你執行寶座大館這個管理政府要怎麼用將來方式讓他們幫你達成這個高階段的目標這是本縣對你的建議啊感謝委員我剛才你覺得這樣有通嗎我剛才你說我剛才做政策嘛我感覺你 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13580.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13584.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
你對頂頭看北京的像我那樣,你比北京的比較通,北京說北京啦不是很專業的,我說他看內地的比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13592.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13599.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
謝謝委員的關心 委員提供兩項很好的意見第一項就是說 現在針對很多樹林 空屋的部分沒有人大空屋的部分 事實上我們若能夠將這裡做統計後 提出更好的方式讓他們釋放出來 變成是社會上...政府所要的承擔 這個所有環境它就不會怕了 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13615.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13632.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
不是透過民間 政府承擔 政府幫他做然後透過運作的人 經營的人 去做給需要的人我了解 這是最重要的 是 我知道所以我們覺得轉體的這個盲目的手忙不要改變 改變的情形之下因為這是錄過一些資源嘛 我們要來處理這個說到這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13637.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13649.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
感謝您,好的意見說要做就是正確我們多元取得社會住宅是我們未來的方向,謝謝委員謝謝謝榮介委員下一位我們請黃國昌委員質詢謝謝主席,來有請部長劉部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13668.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13689.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
剛剛謝文基委員也在關心社會住宅的事當然賴清德總統在競選總統的時候就職演說的時候所做的承諾我想很多年輕人都聽到了也放在心裡了只不過我們要看整個社會住宅當初競選承諾跟現實上面的落差還是要務實的來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13690.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13705.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
我們先看,當初那總統他是說百萬戶的社會住宅那百萬戶當然不可能啦所以我把它比較細緻的去看因為有時候喊一個口號跟實際上面內容有一些落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13705.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13730.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
那包括了蔡英文總統任內的包租貸款八萬新建十二萬租金補貼四十萬那賴清德總統預計達成的戶數我也都把它寫在上面那這個是我按照公開的資訊把它細部整理出來的內容那我們先來看一看賴總統他承接他上任前的狀態到底是什麼我們先來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13732.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13743.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
蔡英文總統說她要興建社會住宅12萬戶那當初蔡總統說請全民大家看一看蔡總統任內最後一天興建跟完成發包的有沒有到12萬戶有到12萬戶嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13747.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13766.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
文報跟我們當時講的是113年底到113年底的確是12萬戶來你看一下你今天指的是到去年的4月30號請你仔細看你可以看一看蔡總統任內的最後一天新建跟發包完成的有沒有到12萬戶我絕對不敢去偽造變造賴總統的發言蔡總統最後一天有到12萬戶嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13773.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13793.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
跟委員報告,我們當時報的計畫是到113年底所以我們指的也是113年底完成這個數字所以我們在去年又發包了一萬九千多戶有追上這個進度沒有關係啦,有的時候要你在這邊公開的承認有落差也是為難你啦,我們也要為難你啦,今天不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13794.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13823.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
要來這邊跟你進行政治攻擊還是政治攻防的啦我只是希望非常務實的來看一看我們政府整體上面的規劃跟他實際上面的進度下一個問題是賴清德總統按照他我把他break down的細節這樣比較好討論他說要達成新建13萬戶社會住宅的目標這13萬戶社會住宅的目標到目前為止目標有沒有改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13824.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13835.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
包括目標都沒有改變那我現在就具體的問因為我一定不要進入細節啦在這邊講空的沒有任何意義十三萬戶達成的路徑是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13836.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13864.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
根文報告 就會包含有直接興建還有都更分回 還有民間促參還有合作開發這些類型我所謂的路徑我再講的比較具體一點你每一年各要達成多少戶有一個施政目標嗎到目前為止來講因為我們先完成所謂的取得的方式把它確認以後我們接下來就會把每一年的目標都逐漸的都確認所以意思就是說到目前為止還沒有目標嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13866.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13891.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
目標沒有變 但是每一年確定的進度我現在就講嘛 現在已經上任超過一年了嘛那超過一年了以後 如果在第一個月問可能還沒有準備好 這個我理解上任一年以後 我問說13萬戶 你要如何達成的這件事情你的路徑是什麼 譬如說今年是2025年嘛2025年打算完成幾戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13893.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13896.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
所以如果2025年還沒有清楚的目標說要完成幾戶的話我想2026年就不用談了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13910.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13925.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
不會,因為我們很快就會把它定義出來所以2026年你打算要完成幾戶?跟委員報告,我們後面會按照我們所手頭的案件的發包量能所以我剛剛的描述完全沒錯嘛我問你2025年要幾戶? |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13927.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13946.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
然後你回答不出來所以我說2026年就不用談了你跟我們報告應該會在這一兩個月就會確認出來這一兩個月嘛會把整個路徑都排出來嘛基本上面啦其實站在這邊質詢只是要督促你們也是善意的提醒賴清德總統跟全國人民所做的承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13948.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13971.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
那有的時候你只講一個空洞的目標沒有具體達成的路徑所造成直接的效果就是什麼所造成直接的效果就是反正到最後跳票了啊跳票又怎麼樣啊跳票又怎麼樣要救責也沒有辦法救責嘛那在這邊善意的提醒我知道幹社會助展是一個辛苦的工作實時的提醒你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13973.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13997.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那也督促你們把具體的路徑跟規劃端到檯面上讓全國人民看這樣大家才知道說實際的進度是什麼嘛因為如果已經過了一年多了以後一戶都還沒有核定的話那接下來將近三年的時間13萬戶要怎麼達成這件事情我老實說啦我是充滿了困惑充滿了困惑 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14000.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14028.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
那第二個因為時間的關係所以第二個我只問一下目前因為目前其實在不管是在興建中或者是發包的其實都是蔡英文總統任內她所核定的社會住宅我理解沒有錯因為到賴總統目前還沒有一個具體的核定計畫出來那目前的社會住宅在興建上面是不是預期的完工日期跟實際的完工日期有出現嚴重的延遲 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14029.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14036.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
沒有到目前為止都沒有都按照進度在推行只有極少數有落後那大部分都是超前來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14039.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14062.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
原定2024年完工的10處中央社會住宅現在有幾處可以入住報告現在已經有4處已經提出來來你看一下齁上面預定的完工日期是全國社會住宅個案新辦執行情形的公告我第一個是在2024年4月30號也就是蔡英文總統任期的最後一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14063.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14067.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
這個是我從內政部抓下來的數字然後到了你們就是2025年5月31號 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14070.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14094.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
也就是賴清德總總上任一年以後的狀況我所抓出來的數字那這個數字實際上面預定完工的日期跟去年預定完工的日期出現了相當的落差所以我才問你是不是有延遲那你剛說沒有延遲可是你們全國社會住宅個案失敗執行狀況公告的情況顯然就不是這個樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14095.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14118.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
跟委員報告完工跟入住期的中間還有差一些要整頓要室內裝修所以我們講的完工跟那個是不太一樣那現在可以很確認就是說我先跟你評一下啦請你看一下仔細看表格好嗎中間的那個表格2024年4月30號上面寫的是什麼完工日期嗎對然後再看右手邊的表格 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14119.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14139.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
2025年5月31號上面寫的是什麼?是寫的是完工日期嗎?那全部都是你們,全部都是住宅執行的公告狀況啊我也跟委員說明一下,因為當時是認為是說完工以後就代表入住,後來因為完工以後還有很多行政作業要做,所以還會在那邊有延遲其實你先等一下,我問題很具體啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14145.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14172.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
這些都是你們的公告完全按照你們的定義所以我一開始就在問你完工日期你跟我說完工日期沒有delay我看你的公告就有delay所以我把問題提出來那你又在跟我扯說完工跟入住不一樣你怎麼會把兩個不同層次的問題混在一起談呢我這樣講好了啦我上來問政的風格就是論事我資料一定準備充分我在這邊問也不是要給你們難看 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14174.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14195.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我再說一次我的目的就是提醒你們提醒你們不要忘了當初做的承諾對全國的年輕人做的承諾我知道 我們會努力我不希望到了2028年的時候大家檢討這件事情的時候發現嚴重的票票然後再說一些各式各樣的理由好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14202.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14206.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢 下一位我們請王玉明委員質詢謝謝主席 我就叫部長 現在我們台灣的生育率其實已經在全世界來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14224.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14252.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
是低到不能再低了那這當中勞工不想生小孩的原因就是其中有一個有超過六成他是認為買不起房子沒辦法給小孩一個家所以這個就涉及到我們的住宅政策那今天討論這個社會住宅的議題我就請教你在這個嘉義縣的部分到目前為止沒有任何一戶社會住宅還工 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14253.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14259.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
零無論是中央或是地方其實是零那現在我們看到的興建當中630戶絕標待開工 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14265.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14287.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
376戶總共也差不多1006戶就這樣子而已那這個數字本期看來其實是非常的少喔那因為嘉義縣他的財政非常困難你可以看到他地方自辦的完全也是零喔根本沒有能力自己來做都是由中央那剛剛署長還回覆說未來還有三萬的社會住宅那我就問在嘉義縣的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14288.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14298.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
你們未來還要蓋多少的社會住宅中央的部分就是這個我現在找到資料規劃中的1885嗎還是還會更多到目前為止就是這一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14299.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14318.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
因為這個會考慮到你設宅興建了以後到底那個地方是不是適合的人家會集居過去住的那因為它是一個比較大的量體所以我們會在落點的部分會特別考慮那目前大概就是民雄 瀑子 太保這邊是很明確的那水上也都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14319.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14343.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
水上目前是 中埔也都沒有 水上中埔也是大鄉啊水上跟中埔目前是跟經濟部還在談合作也就是在工業區開發的時候要不要一併來做這樣的處理因為嘉義縣的翁章良縣長告訴大家嘉義縣經濟起飛現在是最好的狀況台積電也要進駐但是你的社宅顯然沒有跟上翁章良縣長他所宣稱的嘉義縣的經濟發展剛剛署長的意思是說嘉義縣現在需求量沒那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14349.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14368.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
應該這麼說明水上跟中埔就是因為跟經濟部有工業區的開發合作的概念所以我們主動找經濟部談要不要在這個過程當中直接去做那這個部分經濟部也正在研究因為他們也覺得這個方向似乎是可行的好 我要求這個部分你要盡快去規劃就是說嘉義縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14369.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14383.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
他現在正在一個經濟發展起飛的階段也希望引進更多的年輕人要不然他人口外流太嚴重這是雞生蛋蛋生雞的如果你不提供這些的社會住宅那就不會有更多年輕人進來所以這一塊請署長好好去規劃接下來我要請教這個部長部長你知不知道其他國家這個我請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14391.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14417.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
部長知不知道其他國家在這個住宅政策部分像南韓或是新加坡他們其實有很多獎勵的政策那這一塊我覺得我們這個內政部其實做得太少譬如說像在南韓首爾的部分他有3500套的住房新婚的夫妻生育後住20年20年後還有機會就是用八折的價錢去買 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14418.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14435.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
釜山他提供一萬套的這個住房生一胎20年免費住房兩胎他就是終身就是他有這樣子的一個措施全羅北道是500套的住房沒有子女者要付一半租金生育以後租金全免 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14436.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14460.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
這個是我們看到南韓那南韓的生育率在他們強化一些住宅政策之後他們的生育率有止跌回升那新加坡更不用講新加坡他的租屋政策這個涵蓋率高達77%這個是我們望塵莫及因為他們從一開始他們就是用這樣子的一個態度來提供讓住者有其屋那這個我要請教的是這個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14461.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14472.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
看看其他国家想想自己是不是我们自己内政部在相关的住宅政策上面我们应该要好好的急起直追一些好的我们应该要来学习 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14473.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14499.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
謝謝王委員的鼓勵其實有關於少子化跟社會住宅提供的政策行政院也要求內政部要跟相關的單位來做一下考量所以我們現在有在考慮未來不管是在租金上面或者是有關社會住宅如果他是屬於婚育家庭也就是說他想要生小孩或是想要再多生一胎的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14503.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14520.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那這方面呢我們有在思考當中但是現在就是要看量能不能跟得上因為現在呢興建新的全新的社會住宅呢他的這個所需要的這個財政呢非常大的量譬如說土地的取得還有房舍的興建都需要公務機關投入相當多 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14522.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14537.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
所以我們現在才在回復很多委員的立場上面希望能夠用多元的方式取得社會住宅也就是不要是大面積然後一次就是一兩千戶如果我們能夠用螞蟻雄兵的方式譬如說都更的分回或者是整體開發的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14538.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14562.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
分回的部分的話那盡量給婚育家庭的年輕人來入住那尤其呢我們還要考慮他就學跟就業的地方因為你如果是偏鄉的地方青年人也不會想要過去那用這樣的方式兩管齊下一個就是多元取得婚育家庭可以入住社會住宅的條件然後第二個在租金補貼上面能不能因為他多生小孩我們在租金補貼給他更多的優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14564.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14568.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
那當然其他少子化的政策呢衛福部他會有其他的生育補貼等等我們就不在內政部的考量範圍內多元的跟租金補貼再往上提高這個方向我都贊成但是你們的配套要趕快提出來特別是提 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14579.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14597.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
這一個住金補貼的部分的確有些年輕夫妻他要的我剛讓你看到其他國家的經驗就是他可以透過補貼的方式不全然是住進這一個社會住宅但這一塊我是看到我們現在內政部還付之缺乏就是你們並沒有有這樣的想法但是並沒有明確的方案的計劃所以我希望這個部長這一塊你回去好好的研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14603.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14630.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
因為少子化是每一個部會都必須去承擔共同來解決那內政部也是重中之重因為一個結婚要生小孩的夫妻他考量到的是他有沒有個安穩的家無論是租屋穩定得到經濟補助或是他可以買一個家我覺得這個都是他們迫切的需求所以這個部分我就要求這個部長跟署長回去之後應該盡快規規劃一套就完整的方案提出來好不好謝謝委員的鼓勵好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14633.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14636.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
謝謝王一鳴委員下面請鄭天才委員質詢主席部長還有署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14662.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14675.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
這個豬補助啊請教一下署長 豬補助什麼時候開始的豬補助從民國96年就有了好 96年之前啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14677.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14702.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
就開始了96年以前就開始了那是從原住民委員會開始當時我擔任副主任委員我去協調當時的經建會還有行政院然後實施這個住屋補助只有針對原住民後來行政院認為這個應該要擴大辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14705.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14724.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
所以就交給內政部當時營建署從96年開始來辦理所以從一開始 從延民會到內政部接手都是中央來負擔這個沒有 也有中央跟地方的配合是後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14725.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14747.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
是後來是您講的是兩萬戶以後一開始兩萬戶以內的確是但是兩萬戶以後擴增的時候就要整個政策的一個方向所以是一開始也是中央前額負擔那後來地方開始負擔到了這個蘇貞昌院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14750.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14777.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
拍板這個300億元中央擴大租金補貼專案的計劃當時啊這裡面就這個年度是到明年嗎是嗎先到113然後在114、115這樣就在往後延嗎是好當時內政部新聞稿也特別提到也特別提到這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14780.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14804.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
也特別提到本專案300億元經費由中央完全負擔這個是一個行政院擴大辦理然後做了這樣的一個決定由中央全額負擔那你現在突然要改你最起碼你要把這個專案計畫完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14807.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14814.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
完成了你在新的專案計劃的時候你在跟地方去協調這才是一個正辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14816.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14841.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
我瞭解 至少到今年年底都沒有變到今年年底我們還是沒有 還是照現在的狀況你這個狀況是到115啊瞭解 但是因為財政收支劃分法的關係我想這一個 我們的確也受到了一些衝擊那過去的稅基剩餘也可能不會那麼多的這個金額再撥補所以要給地方政府一個譽為一念請教一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14844.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14868.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
這個主計總署在跟你們溝通協調的時候有沒有告訴你們說因為財政收支劃分法中央地方的經費會增加行政院有正式或者主計總署有正式發文給地方政府說你們115年的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14873.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14899.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
會增加多少有嗎報告委員我們現在所了解因為財政部或者是主計總署不是內政部的權責我們現在所收到的資訊就是說中央政府在這一次新的財政收支劃分法通過的時候經常性的收入會減少3753億那各部會的非法定義務支出需要配合三減28%我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14902.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14928.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
我的意思是說你們有沒有去徵詢你們有沒有去問主計總署有沒有發文給各縣市說115年度你們的預算會增加統籌經費因為財政收支方法的修正會增加請問一下署長有沒有問 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14931.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14959.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
我們到目前是不清楚但是因為行政院還在修正他那一個補助的分級原則所謂補助的分級原則行政院主席總署還在訂但是是因為從年初就開始有告訴我們要注意這件事情那地方政府現在是因為面臨明年度的預算編列他需要我們這樣的一個配合我非常清楚我們都是公務員出身 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14959.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14989.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
你也在地方政府服務過對不對這是有收入有支出收支你只有中央中央只有收因為產生收支方法你的你的收入會增加就像他們有收到收入增加的公文啊然後你就告訴他你要增加這些負擔你要增加這些支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14990.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15012.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
作為一個中央的政府 是沒有跟地方政府說你的收入會增加所以我的收入減少了所以你要負擔部分的支出這才是一個政府啊中央跟地方政府的一個合作協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15014.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15037.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
所以這個部分是一個所以才跟委員報告也是因為地方政府他已經出現這個請求因為他們也要預為因應所以我們雙方就是一個互相合作的概念他要預為因應我先協助他出這一份他不知道他會到底他會不會收到這個收入啊但是說明一下說明一下因為委員也當過 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15039.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15061.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
當過地方的這個主管都知道當你至少在預算裡面要有這個科目你今天如果連這個科目都沒有明年一旦萬一真的上路了地方政府會措手不及市長如果我是你的話我會協調主計總署你也要同步告訴地方政府你會增加多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15065.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15092.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
現在變成沒有啊然後呢行政院又提視線啊對不對一方面要人家增加支出然後也沒告訴對方你會增加多少然後又提視線財政收入方法提視線他也要編明年的預算啊那他也要知道我到底會增加多少的收入然後我要增加多少的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15094.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15112.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
所以這個部分都是要建議啦我了解委員的意思但是你要建議但是應該這麼說啦因為我想在行政部門行政部門都會有同樣的要預為應做就像去年要突然通過要凍結大量的預算的時候我們也都先告知地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15113.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15132.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
你要育兒因應做什麼事那地方政府他就會提早在他的預算裡面也要做一些準備我想現在大家都是在準備的過程當中當然主席總處那邊我們還是會去跟他反應是 地方政府也在籌編所以他也要育兒因應大家都是一樣的整體整體的而不是個別的個別的那個然後只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15133.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15149.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
只有收到支出沒有收到收入所以我才跟各位講這是地方政府希望他育兒營業所以大家都是在行政的協助上他希望育兒營業所以我們也告訴他可以做我們公務員也要跟主計總署講你也要通知對地方說你增加多少好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15152.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15164.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
謝謝鄭天才委員的諮詢下一位我們請林俊憲委員諮詢林俊憲委員林俊憲委員不在下一位我們請鍾嘉斌委員諮詢鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在下一位我們請黃建豪委員諮詢好謝謝主席主席我們請劉部長跟我們吳署長劉部長吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15181.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15201.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
部長好 署長好 今天我想這個主題是討論公寓大廈公設點交的部分本席首先先肯定你們點出問題 包含說什麼問題包含說保固的範圍 起算的時間跟初始管會操作但是我要講的是說 這些確實都是在地方上民眾或是民意代表常遵守到的陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15202.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15226.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
因為保固的範圍哪些是保固然後起算時間到底是點交後起算還是要施工完成後起算這都是好像都是民法之間的這個爭點在自己去協調那還有管委會操作因為有時候點交的時候來的公證人實務上來講啦這公證人到底怎麼找很多時候是建商推薦的或是這個房仲推薦的管委會根本無能為力那第一屆管委會通常就是建商輔導成立的所以很快的點交就完成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15226.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15250.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
所以這些都是實務上面對的問題,那也就是因為這些實務上你們點出來的問題,所以導致社區公寓大廈有很多的爭議,後續有很多點交要保固會有爭議,那我就講說今天這份專案報告你們點出了問題,但是不好意思看不到怎麼解決部長,署長,這個要怎麼解決,就是到底要怎麼辦,包含說點起算時間,比如說保固的起算時間,要不要乾脆你們定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15251.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15277.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
明確一點就是說就是什麼時候開始算而不是讓建商跟住戶然後加上這個公證人所謂公證人帶他去協調因為我想住戶相對啦在這個整個案子裡面他相對弱勢因為他又卡著一件事情就是如果我典交沒有完成我後續你們也講到了嘛後續的這共用的這個共用經濟他沒辦法使用所以第一屆主委他的壓力很大他好像我不典交不行但如果我典交不確實 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15278.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15304.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
到時候後面住戶會罵我所以這個問題我想問一下我們當行政部到底要怎麼去解決實務上行政上有沒有辦法定更明確的規範而不是讓他們自己去協調而已感謝委員因為的確這個所謂的點交的時間還有這個保固的起算點我們在過程當中當然就涉及到雙方契約的這個雙方契約的簽訂那事實上實務上各自有各自的優缺點 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15304.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15319.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
那有了完工起算的時候那就會卡在你的點交如果拖太久保固就會保固期很快就會削減掉了那如果要等到點交後才開始起算那有些又會涉及到點交的過程當中如果不夠確實那會造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15320.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15338.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
後面的基金會提早動之所以這一點為什麼在過去都會建議還是在雙方的合約裡面去定定或者是他到最後沒有辦法要走到消保那一段才去所以也跟我們報告光這一個我們就不太認為他應該在法規因為法規明定都會有各自的優缺點 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15339.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15366.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
這第一個啦 第二個就是說點交的項目現在的狀況也是在於說現行的建築法規我們規定的項目事實上大家都確認可以但是很多在點交的過程當中是因為法規外的項目也會被要求要點交那點交的品質怎麼去確認這個部分就會流於在合約還有跟消費者爭議之間的一個差異所以為什麼說要修這個部分可能是包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15367.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15391.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
國路署跟地政司甚至跟消保處都要去討論在這些內容裡面有哪一些是具體可以執行或哪些還是要尋後續的協調跟這個爭議的處理或是甚至民法訴訟才能處理署長我跟你報告我跟你說就其實地方上去打民法訴訟或找消保官有時候緩不及急那我今天為什麼要提不提出來既然你們都提了這個所謂的專案報告也點出了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15392.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15409.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
那也要講一下其實這幾年的狀態尤其是疫情之後期間到現在第一個房地產的價值提升非常非常多那隱身的消費糾紛我覺得也比疫情前多很多還有因為房價提升所以現在多數的消費者他反而他只能去買所謂的社區公寓大廈他的總價 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15411.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15435.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
他能夠負擔的總價他基本上現在都都在這個公寓大廈裡面所以他的過去可能可能20年30年沒有這麼多問題但這兩三年內這是我體感的但我不知道你們有沒有甚實的數據啦這個體感感受數據是非常明確嘛其實委員講到一個重點就是老舊公寓的部分有一部分是因為我們這幾年開始要求成立管理組織就會開始產生這些點交的 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15437.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15454.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
因為過去他可能二三十年沒有去處理這些公社典交但是因為我們要求成立了以後他開始去重視我想這是一個好的起點開始去重視這些議題那當然現在地方政府是希望說我們是不是可以延長一下輔導期讓他們有多一點時間去協調去緩衝這個部分我們會來研議因為八樓以下看起來問題已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15461.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15485.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
比較明顯就是老舊公寓的問題這個我們會來研究再找這個地方政府再溝通一下看看輔導期的延長第二個能不能再放寬一點規定讓他不一定要完全一個管理組織非常完整的那有一些管理組織甚至只要負責人有一些架構就可以了要不然否則一般要成立到很完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15486.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15514.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
組織的確會很難 這個部分我們會來研議好 謝謝署長那最後有點時間 抱歉 只有一分鐘這個剛剛大概很多委員都討論到我們今年特別提到說因為財務法的修正所以可能租金補貼等等會受到影響那我提供一個思考方向啦當然錢都是固定的 只是中央地方的問題我想整體的對人民來講我繳的稅是沒什麼影響的反正大家繳的稅都照樣繳那只是說到底中央怎麼分配跟地方政府拿到多少錢是分配的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15515.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15528.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
那我現在講的是說我想依據這個房地投一稅的相關的這個基礎我幫大家找裁員嘛因為今天比如以今年為例我們今年的住宅基金的收入大約是500億啊那政府中央預注400億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15530.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15551.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
好那你今天提到說如果會沒有那麼多是不是是是我們都是靠撥補撥補多少錢撥補已經現在有兩百億啊今年預算多少錢今年預算撥補今年需要三百七十六億它差不多大約我說大概三百七十六億然後大概我說中央政府就是說行政的撥補會撥補到三百到四百億嘛對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15552.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15572.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
那今天談的問題就是說 因為現在提到說可能要扣25%到所謂地方 要讓地方來分那25%就會回到110年以前的樣態 是我知道 就是因為這25%的數字 我要跟你分享啦就是我看到這個房地合一稅的問題啦我想房地合一稅 法有明定喔 就是說每年不得低於10% |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15574.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15591.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
你這個400億,不然300億是400億就算我用400億高標來算400億的百分之二數剛剛好就是100億我去年房地合一稅收入1000億他的百分之十就是100億然後還有前年房地合一稅收入617億他的百分之十是60億 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15592.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15610.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
前年在2022年的時候是553億房地合一歲它如果能夠撥補進來也是55億左右過去這些年房地合一歲有沒有如實的撥補到我們住宅基金裡面因為房地合一歲撥補到住宅基金是去年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15610.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15632.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
是去年開始 那行政 我們當然也會爭取啦也會爭取這個比例可不可以再調高啦那當然這個就這個在院裡面還要再協調如果你們除了 我說當然開園的方式啦你除了找地方政府去開園之外喔我想有這麼龐大的一筆房地合約稅而且他們也名符其實嘛 我說各房地合約稅我就是為了公平正義 為了所謂住宅 這個居住正義嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15633.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15654.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
啊我看房地合一稅我的收入因抗這麼多那我能不能用在相關的政策上面這個是很直觀而且合理的方向啊所以希望內政部應該去想辦法去爭取讓房地合一稅更多的資金不低於百分之十的前提之下易住到住宅基金裡面啊我想這樣子你們的財政相對來講就會比之前寬裕很多吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15655.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15675.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
這個部分當然我們會跟院爭取啦因為每年都有爭取那這個部分都要看最後協調的結果好 謝謝部長謝謝黃建豪委員的諮詢楊瓊英委員改書面下一位我們請蘇清泉委員諮詢蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15676.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15702.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
好登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢我們詢答到此結束高進素美委員楊瓊英委員所提書面質詢列入記錄我們刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位一週內書面答覆並複製本會報告委員會我們現在進行討論事項請宣讀討論事項住宅法第21至第38案提案條文請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15703.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15711.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
第一条委员林月琴等提案后段修正文使全体国民居住于适宜之住宅且享有尊严之居住环境与福利服务其余同线性条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15712.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15735.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
第四条,委员王宏威等提案,委员徐玉珍等提案,委员罗明财等提案,委员王玉明等提案,委员游浩等提案,第一项40%修正为50%,第二项第三款修正为三育儿未成年子女,其余同线型条文。委员陈素月等提案,增订第二项第八款,八育儿未成年身心障碍者一人以上,原第八至十三款款次第一,其余同线型条文。 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15735.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15758.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
委員陳金輝等提案委員楊瓊英等提案委員葉元志等提案第二項第三款修正為三育有未成年子女其餘同線性條文委員范雲等提案增訂第二項第八款八育有未成年身心障礙者一人以上原第八至第十款及第十二十三款款次第一原第十一款修正為無家者並一列第十二款其餘同線性條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15758.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15776.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
委員羅廷偉等提案第一項40%修正為50%第二項第三款修正為三育有未成年子女增訂第二項第八款八育有未成年身心障礙者一人以上原第八至第十三款款次第一取同現行條文委員王美惠等提案增訂第二項第四款 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15777.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15797.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
予有未成年身心障碍家属者原第四至第十三款款次第一其余同线型条文委员邱振军等提案第一项40%修正为50%第二项第三款修正为三予有未成年子女或大学尚未毕业之同居子女其余同线型条文委员李博弈等提案增订第四条之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15798.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15821.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
第四条之一被征收拆除原住宅缺因政策变迁等因素致使原规划补偿安置不可能实现者主管机关得提供社会住宅供其入住不受前条第二项家庭总收入之限制前项受安置者其身份之认定安置之期间由地方主管机关定之依本条规定申请入住社会住宅或核定者其入住资格不得转让继承 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15822.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15844.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
第五条委员范云等提案第一项修正为为使全体国民居住于适宜之住宅且享有尊严之居住环境需要中央主管机关应衡着未来环境发展住宅市场供需状况住宅负担能力住宅发展课题不同性别者需求青年与学生需求及援助民族文化需求等研拟住宅政策报行政院核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15845.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15872.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
增订第六项第一项政策制定时应会同目的事业主管机关纳入不同性别者青年与学生原住民族及相关专家学者参与其余同线性条文第十五条委员徐玉珍等提案委员罗廷伟等提案第一项末段修正为但每屋每月租金收入免税额度不得超过新台币二万五千元其余同线性条文委员苏巧慧等提案第一项末段修正为每屋每月租金收入免税额度应参考 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15873.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15892.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
房屋所在地之相关住宅指标制定第二项修正为前项免纳综合所得税之额度条件期限参考指标及其他相关事项之办法又主管机关定制其余同线型条文第十六条文苏巧慧等提案删除第四项原第五项一列第四项其余同线型条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15892.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15913.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
第十八条文范云等提案修正为第十八条中央主管机关应建制社会住宅需求登记平台供全国符合本法第25条第一项资格民众登记并定期统计分析其需求资讯以作为社会住宅新办户数供给区位房型配比以及公共设施提供之依据纳入住宅计划及财务计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15913.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15938.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
前项需求资讯统计分析应纳入不同性别者及青年世代之需求角度分析第十九条文王玉明等提案增订第一项第八款八利用列为区段征收及市地存花之土地原第八款一列第九款增订第四项以第一项第八款之方式所取得之土地至少需留设不低于50%之土地面积作为新办社会住宅之使用其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15939.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15955.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
增订第十九条之一委员范云等提案第十九条之一第十九条第一项第六款新办之社会住宅各年度计划物件总量中采成租民间住宅并转租及代为管理应以达二分之以上为目标提升并优先转租与符合本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15955.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15979.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
第四条第二项之对象中央主管机关应与卫生福利部洽商建立弱势处遇协助机制委员林月琴等提案第十九条之一中央主管机关应会同社会福利目的事业主管机关针对第十九条第一项第六款新办之社会住宅采成租民间住宅并转租及代为管理方法之成租者提供必要之福利服务第二十条 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15980.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16008.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
委員徐宇珍等提案第二款修正為二區段區段徵收取得之可建築用地或市地重劃取得之底廢地得採合建分屋方式興辦社會住宅其餘同現行條文委員王玉明等提案增訂第五款五利用列為區段徵收及市地重劃之土地原第五款一列第六款其餘同現行條文第二十三條委員蘇巧慧等提案第一項至第三項同現行條文刪除現行條文第四項 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16009.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16023.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
第23条委员徐玉珍等提案委员罗廷伟等提案第二项第一款后端修正为每屋每月租金收入免税额度不得超过新台币二万五千元其余同现行条文委员范云等提案增订第二项第一款一 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16024.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16052.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
一第十九条第一项第六款企业采成租民间住宅并转租及代为管理者住宅出租期间所获租金收入免纳综合所得税但每屋每月租金收入免税额度不得超过新台币二万五千元原第一款一列第二款并修正为二千款以外者出住宅出租期间所获租金收入免纳综合所得税但每屋每月租金收入免税额度不得超过新台币一万五千元原第二款一列第三款其余同线性条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16052.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16067.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
文殊巧慧等提案删除第三项原第四项一列第三项其余同现行条文第25条文范云等提案第二项中段增订租金调整文字第三项修正为社会住宅成租者之租金计算中央主管机关因依 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16068.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16086.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
家户所得与财产计算可负担能力定定分级收费原则并定期检讨之其余同线性条文委员杨耀等提案第三项后段增订并修正为为租金上限不得预出租标地所在行政区市场租金价格之50%并定期检讨之其余同线性条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16087.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16106.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
第33條委員林月琴等提案第一項同線型條文第一項第二項修正為前項必要附屬設施之項目規模徵選程序參建及補助辦法由中央主管機關召集社會福利及相關目的事業主管及直轄市縣市主管機關制定並由中央主管機關公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16107.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16134.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
第34条委员林月琴等提案第一项后段修正为其必要之预防性支持性补充性保护性之综合社会福利服务第二项修正为前项社会福利服务之内容自行或结合民间资源之实施办法由中央社会福利主管机关会同中央主管机关定之其余同现行条文第35条委员林月琴等提案第一项第二项同现行条文增订第三项前项非盈利司法人之租金定价 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16135.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16163.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
因依据第25条锁定分级收费原则最低阶为其租金其转租租金之订定应经该社会住宅新办机关备查第40条文范云等提案第三项增订并修正为直辖市县市主管机关应以领取租金补贴及列册弱势家户为优先对象清查不符基本居住水准家户之居住状况并订定辅导改善执行计划以确保符合国民基本居住水准增订第四项 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16164.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16186.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
前项辅导改善执行计划得以专案提供社会住宅租金补贴修缮住宅补贴等措施之方式办理原第四项一列第五项并修正为中央主管机关因补助并督导直辖市县市主管机关执行第二项清查作为并另定办法规范第四项专案措施其余同线性条文委员林月琴等提案增订第四项为 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16186.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16203.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
前项辅导改善执行计划得以专案提供修缮补助方式办理第五项之第二项清查作为修正为第三项清查作为其余同委员范允等提案第四十三条委员罗志强等提案第一项中段修正为 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16204.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16230.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
中央主管机关应定定住宅性能外墙安全及社区房灾评估制度其余同现行条文第47条文范云等提案增订第一项第二款二租赁住宅市场不同物件形态物赁之每平均数与中位数价格资讯其中属本法第九条第一项第三款第十九条第一项第六款之物件应优先办理原第二三四款款次第一其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16231.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16252.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
第52条文范云等提案第二项后段增订其中属第19条第一项第六款承租民间住宅并转租及代为管理物件之补助总金额不得少于每合乘出租双方及代为管理物件二倍其余同现行条文文范云等提案增订第五章之一章名学生居住权益 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16253.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16268.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
委員范雲等提案增訂第52條之一第52條之一主管機關應會同教育部推動本條事項以保障學生居住權益學生居住需求應綜合學生住宿申請及租屋數量評估並得配合向學生施作之調查研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16269.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16286.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
为满足学生居住需求并改善学生居住品质,应以新办学校宿舍转租公有社会住宅、媒合或转租并代为管理民间住宅以及改善学生租赁处境等方式办理。办理前项事项是应搜集学生及学校对实际困难和需求。 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16287.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16314.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
作为政策及措施调整依据并配合对学生提供财务支持和以学校无需自偿为目标提供对学校财务支持办理第三项事项时准用本法第40条以基本居住水准加入学生隐私及自主需求考量优先清查及改善学生居住品质第三项改善学生租赁处境因搜集学生经验及实际困难后与学生代表参与下纳入整体居住政策发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16314.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16331.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
文范云等提案增订第53条之一第53条之一为保障居住权利中之性别平等主管机关应搜集及分析不同性别者居住需求其现实处境与其代表其相关专家学者参与下纳入整体居住政策发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16331.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16344.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
主管機關依依前向要求訂定社會住宅規劃性別友善白皮書作為新辦社會住宅之依據主管機關依收集不同性別者族屋經驗及困境並研商處遇協助政策宣讀完畢好謝謝那我們本日會議就到此結束我們明天早上九點進行大體討論現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16367.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16376.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
我來擺一個 |