| IVOD_ID |
16762 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16762 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-18T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-18T13:43:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:13:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6857536b190c0b7f68c9b5fa2f296a935348b19dddded0b194f3ec1e92977f55ed15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長就「營造友善職場育兒環境，落實照顧不離職政策規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 13:43:00 |
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1378.038 |
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1378.058 |
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沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1887.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1908.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
報告委員會初期委員12人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議意思錄立法院第11屆第三會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議意思錄時間114年6月9日星期一9時2分至16時35分6月11日星期三9時至17時24分地點群賢樓801會議室 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1914.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1937.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
出席委员陈委员赵姿等15人列席委员中委员嘉宾等15人列席官员卫生福利部部长邱太元等相关人员主席刘兆吉委员建国6月9日报告事项宣读上次会议议事录决定确定讨论事项审查行政院含情审议委员林月琴等21人拟据全民健康保险资料管理条例草案等二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1938.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1960.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
本日會議經委員林月琴說明提案指去由衛生福利部部長說明後委員陳昭芝等14人提出質詢均經衛生福利部部長及個人資料保護委員會籌備處法制事務組組長林玉佳及各相關主管等即席答覆委員楊耀翁小林圖權及徐欣盈及陳盈所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1961.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1974.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
本日會議由委員王振旭等3人提出部分條文修正動議委員盧憲一等3人提出第5條第7條及第15條條文修正動議委員王衛明等6人分別提出第6條第7條第17條第23條條文修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1977.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2004.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
委員劉建國等三人提出部分條文修正動議委員林淑芬等四人分別提出第五條第六條第十條第十一條第十四條第十七條第十九條條文修正動議委員陳昭芝等三人提出部分條文修正動議共十五案決議一說明及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆委員另要求其勝者從其鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2005.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2022.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
三行政院含情審議全民健康保險資料管理條例草案等二案保留條文及第14條以下條文令則其繼續審查審查結果一照行政院及委員林月琴等21人提案通過法案名稱第二條第12條及第13條二保留條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2026.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2045.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
第一條第三條至第十一條六月十一日討論事項繼續審查行政院函請審議委員林月琴等十六人委員何新淳等十六人委員王玉敏等二十四人委員邱若驊等十六人委員黃婕等二十一人委員蔡易宇等十七人委員李坤臣等二十二人委員陳培宇等十九人 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2046.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2073.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
委員郭玉琴等21人委員陳素月等16人委員鄭天才等18人委員王美惠等19人委員林淑芬等25人委員王振旭等18人委員吳佩儀等19人分別擬據兒童托育服務法草案等16案以及審查委員游浩等17人擬據兒童托育多元服務法草案委員范雲等17人委員李燕秀等16人委員羅廷瑋等17人分別擬據兒童托育服務法草案等4案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2075.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2100.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
114年5月28日第11屆第三會期本會第14次全體委員會議由委員林月琴等三人提出部分條文修正動議本日會議由委員陳金輝陳昭芝王玉明等三人提出第11條條文修正動議委員陳金輝陳昭芝王玉明等三人提出第18條第19條及第36條條文修正動議委員王振旭黃秀芳林淑芬張雅玲等四人提出部分條文修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2101.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2120.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
委員林淑芬等三人提出第七條第十三條及第十四條條文修正動議委員林淑芬等三人提出第八條第十八條及第七十七條條文修正動議委員劉建國等三人提出部分條文修正動議委員陳寅王振旭吳立華等四人提出部分條文修正動議共八案 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2121.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2148.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
決議一本日會議審查結果如下照行政院提案通過法案名稱第一張張明及第二張張明第一條照委員林月琴等16人及委員林淑芬等25人提案修正通過委員陳培宇等19人提案第八條及委員林淑芬等25人提案第九條修正通過四法案審查完均後改列本法第四條第八條仲裁各版本修正通過第九條照委員劉堅果等三人所提修正動議修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2148.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2157.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第10條照委員林淑芬等25人提案第12條及委員劉建國等3人所提修正動議通過委員林淑芬等25人提案第14條修正通過通過附帶決議一項保留條文第2條至第7條委員林淑芬等25人提案第7條委員王玉敏等24人提案第48條 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2168.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2185.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
委員陳培鈺等19人提案第12條及委員林淑芬等25人提案第13條委員王衛明等24人提案第9條至第13條委員林淑芬等25人提案第15條二行政院函請審議審議兒童托育服務法草案等20案保留條文及第11條以下條文令則其繼續審查宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2194.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2222.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好 請問委員會上市議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處沒有 那我們議事錄確定本日的議程為邀請勞動部長就營造友善職場育兒環境落實照顧不離子政策規劃進行專題報告並備諮詢我們現在介紹在場的委員及列席官員第一位陳昭志委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2226.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2248.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
林業群委員 王振旭委員行政官員 勞動部部長 洪淑安勞動力發展署署長 黃林玉勞工保險局局長 白立珍 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2252.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2265.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
職業安全衛生署署長林玉堂好 林玉堂勞動關係司司長王厚偉勞動保險司司長陳美女勞動福祉退休司司長黃維琛好勞動條件就業評等司司長黃琦雅好 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2284.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2287.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
接下來請洪部長來做報告嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2298.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2324.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
主席各位委員大家好那今天本部應邀致貴委員會就營造友善職場育兒環境落實照顧不離職政策規劃進行專題報告進行委員不吝指教那以下請就安心生養職場環境育嬰留職停薪津貼及補助推動企業設置補給乳室托兒設施或提供托兒措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2325.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2341.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
協助婦女平衡工作與家庭照顧之支持性措施及滾動檢討友善育兒照顧措施提供說明那第一個部分是安心生養職場環境一性別平等工作法規定受僱者如有育嬰留職停薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2342.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2360.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
調整或減少工作時間等各項促進平等工作平等措施需求都可以依法提出申請雇主不得拒絕另外該法也規定雇主對於求職者或受雇者不得因性別而有差別待遇這裡的性別歧視禁止也包括懷孕歧視的禁止 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2361.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2388.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
本部於去年事辦彈性暈流停有89家企業參加勞工方面申請三日的佔最多主要申請原因有保姆臨時有事腸病毒停託客等而沒有提出申請的原因大部分以家庭照顧價或用其他價別來替代部分僱主有表達未來制度如果放寬彈性還是會擔心影響人力調配及公司營運這次的事辦彈性暈流停 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2390.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2415.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
確實有經濟空間本部以陸續收集各方回饋意見及相關建言並規劃配套措施以建構更友善的勞工職場環境第二部分是提供育嬰留職停薪津貼及補助為穩定勞工就業就會保險提供六成的育嬰留職停薪津貼而且從110年7月1日起另外以公務預算加給兩成的薪資補助合計發 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2417.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2432.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
發給八成的津貼及補助自110年7月實施薪資補助以來截至123年底勤領津貼及薪資補助者為32萬多人男女性勤領人數都有成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2433.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2453.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第三部分是推动企业设置补给入市托儿设施或提供托儿措施为支持双就业双照顾本部定定经费补助办法提供经费鼓励企业设计补给入市及提供托儿服务另外去年8月修正经费补助办法提高新兴 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2454.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2469.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
托兒設施經費最高補助額度由300萬至500萬元並補助企業辦理友善家庭的工作生活平衡措施第四部分是協助婦女平衡工作及家庭照顧之支持性措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2470.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2486.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
为鼓励妇女再就业本部推动妇女再就业计划结合相关部会资源协助妇女平衡工作与家庭照顾需求运用自主训练奖励再就业奖励雇主工时调整奖励及其他如雇佣奖助等 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2488.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2503.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
措施鼓勵婦女精進職能重返職場穩定就業並提高雇主雇用意願營造友善職場環境113年至114年5月只以協助婦女58,027人並以114年至117年每年協助3.5萬名婦女重返職場為目標持續辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2512.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2526.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
最後在滾動檢討友善職場育兒照顧措施部分未來在面對受僱者的育兒照顧需求本部課證研擬更彈性的照顧措施減少勞工因育兒而必須離職並將兼顧企業營運需求以創造勞工企業雙贏 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2529.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2544.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們同步也在規劃修正就保保險法規定讓領滿6個月的育嬰留職挺心津貼之雙親於育嬰留職挺心期間得各在請領一個月的育嬰留職挺心津貼以鼓勵雙親共同分擔育嬰之責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2545.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2573.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
另外為肯定鼓勵企業推動友善家庭措施本部也辦理工作生活平衡獎並將獲獎企業優良範例加以推廣帶動更多企業響應推動友善家庭措施未來本部也會配合整體少子女化政策持續加強各項友善職場措施支持勞工兼顧工作育兒以及家庭照顧以上報告敬請各位委員及先進指導並助主席各位委員先進身體健康萬事如意謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2583.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2612.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
有關本市會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報現在我們要開始詢問今天這個題目是年輕父爸爸媽媽非常大的壓力包括育嬰的問題男女可以請育嬰假彈性育嬰另外一個就是小孩子在學校在托兒所如果有流行性的疾病那怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2613.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2635.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
突然要請假突然發燒要回家等等還有企業怎麼來申請設施等等這個都非常大的題目我們現在開始詢答本委員會委員8分鐘列席委員4分鐘10點半截止法院登記委員如果書面質詢請於上會前提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2636.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2650.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
預期不受理 我們暫定10點半左右 休息10分鐘原則上11點半處理臨時提案 11點截止收案好 那現在我們請第一位委員陳昭芝發言謝謝主席 麻煩洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2666.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2680.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
部長,我的辦公室門口一直貼著每個月持續更新的月出生數跟月死亡人數,而且我還提供了每年的累積的數字。我想請問部長,你知道你出生那一年,台灣的新生兒有多少嗎?1984年,你知道嗎?出生人口有多少人? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2690.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2709.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
33萬7972人 OK的33萬 對 將近34萬但是請你看看 民進黨二次執政以後當然不是 我是說數字是如此大概2016年民進黨二次執政 當年出生人數大概20萬可是每年降1萬 你看看 那一直到去年2024年是榮年 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2712.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2730.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
農年結果出生數到13萬4856比起你出生那一年少了六成只剩下四成的人口所以部長過去勞動部傾向用經濟的誘因來作為鼓勵生育的手段你認為成果如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2733.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2757.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我想當然現在這個少子女化的問題其實是各部會都要一起來共同因應的我理解部長 你看這個數字 你看這個曲線就知道成果如何不管是多少部會要來承擔的嘛這個一看就知道 而且最近四個月來部長完全沒有回升的這個趨勢上個星期內政府公告了五月份的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2757.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2780.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那個數字是8,4338千多喔那媒體使用這個下探新低這個意思來處理所以出生人數下跌恐怕政府沒有辦法再用單純的就是說生育不是單純靠金錢誘因可以處理這嚴重的你如果把這個8千多乘以12不得了了比起你出生的那一年的人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2781.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2806.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那部長您上任部長之前12天你有到這個未還組參加一個公聽會你有提到其實很多年輕的爸爸媽媽有說現行的育嬰留庭制度太難用了可能就是因為申請要用單位月做單位譬如說小孩子突然發燒了也許幾天那你不可能因此就請一個月的育嬰留庭所以爸爸媽媽只能用家庭照顧假 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2807.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2826.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
但是家裡照顧家就是併入到市價裡面一起其實是天數很有限總共是七天嘛等於有點說你要照顧孩子可是你又要被扣薪嘛因為市價是要扣薪的那許多年在工作局他本來薪水就不高那你現在有點像懲罰稅有點像生孩子那你就給他懲罰一樣部長你記不記得你在2023年總質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2829.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2842.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
您還像這個當時陳俊宇院長說現行的這個育嬰留庭這個制度並不符合實際的需求這都你講給我,你會嗎?我一定會有你的投影片裡面常有我的投影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2844.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2868.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
對 我很關心你 我們互相關心但問題是 大家都知道這個制度不好啊制度是沒有改變 那很沒有改變譬如說彈性育嬰假今年3月我真的想請教一下李次長李建宏次長接受媒體採訪時他說以日為單位的彈性育嬰假不再考慮範圍內但是一個月後部長您又在媒體表示說彈性育嬰假是未來的推動改革目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2870.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2891.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這個說法都不一致那很多爸爸媽媽會想說到你們是真的要做還是說喊喊口號那另外就是說這個育嬰假的彈性改革就是說這個是一個體制性的變革那你是打算用行政命令處理還是說可以這個法制面的修法來調整呢你看你跟次長的講話不一樣先了解這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2892.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2911.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我想關於談運營留庭的部分,我目前會先考慮能夠在不修法的範圍內,就可以來處理為什麼官員都很怕修法?修法就違法是不是?都要用行政命令或其他的方式處理反正你的態度是什麼?就是到底運營留庭制度要不要檢討? |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2913.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2932.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
市長跟你的態度不一樣嗎暈流停的制度目前都在檢討中對彈性化那目前都在檢討中那我想我們也是朝向更短的天數來進行這個檢討更有彈性了市長但接下來我給你談法條部分因為現行的性平法第20條家庭照顧價仍列入市價 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2934.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2946.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這個全年最多七天但是市價跟家庭照顧價其實是本質不同的兩回事嘛前者有點像比較個人的事務要處理或者是照顧責任把這兩個價放在一起計算我想確認說我想了解說 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2948.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2964.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
您也這樣子認為嗎那因為現在我們今天會討論這個題目就是除了就是說我們想要努力提高生育率那又面對高齡化的問題照顧家人跟處理個人事務是兩件事當然我知道在疫情期間那時候有點特別因為很多小朋友確診 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2965.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2986.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以2022年確實全序部有一個含釋他提到公務員的家庭照顧假應該是一個案事實從寬認定並且提高民間企業提到了他提到民間也可以使用他在暗示民間企業可以使用但隨著少數化高齡化的需求增加所以我們有一些主張麻煩這個部長關心一下第一個我們希望把家庭照顧假從市價 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2988.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3005.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
獨立出來另立一個價別叫家庭照顧價那家庭照顧當然可以討論那本版我們提出來的是14天因為這是柯文哲在競選總統時的一個承諾那我不知道勞動部是否支持這個修法的這個方向呢那為什麼家庭照顧價提出來因為現在老的小的都要照顧啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3008.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3035.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
您有同意這個方向嗎我想第一個現在包括說第五類傳染病等等的請假是目前這都在家庭照顧假的適用的範圍裡面對我的意思說家庭照顧假要跟市假綁在一起嗎這個沒有想過嗎勞動部有沒有思考一下我們其實是目前家庭照顧假的部分也是朝希望能夠可以讓他更彈性的運用的方向在思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3036.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3060.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
但是它跟市價是不一樣的,你同意嗎?家庭照顧跟市價本質不一樣耶有事情要辦啊,辦點什麼事情那家庭照顧是照顧人啊,這個不一樣啊所以就是請部長想想看,這兩個價是不是可以價別可以把它分開來部長,您擔任立委時提案修正,成立提案修正,姓平法裡面要增加生產準備價,列記了生產準備價,其實原來叫那個產檢價 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3066.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3080.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那希望能夠這個生產準備價希望能夠促進友善育兒的這個職場環境也是今天我們的主題這是一項你跟我都有一樣的主張就是這個生產準備價那我在這個版本上我們黨又提了一個就是說受孕者的配偶他如果要參加這個產權教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3085.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3087.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
因為產權現在不是試油不是這個賠生產他當然他叫賠生產他本身不是生產賠生產準備價那我先請教部長部長你當時的這個生產準備價你是不是還維持自己的初衷的主張呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3100.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3116.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我想其實關於聖誕準備現在立法院有蠻多的版本嘛那這部分當然我們其實也願意跟立法院來做這個整體的來討論部長你要有信心啊你以前主張的東西因為是對人民是好的你有時候就是要站在站穩你的腳步 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3117.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3124.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
你的位子你要就是向上爭取就是說我希望部長能夠回到你當立委的時候那種信心十足的樣子你就是說將產權教育產權教育這個適由納入這個生產準備價你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3132.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3147.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我覺得我們怎麼讓我們怎麼讓懷孕的婦女然後其實包括她的配偶然後整體能夠有更好的或更友善的環境我覺得這部分我們願意來做這個相關的思考我們願意來做這個相關政策評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3152.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3176.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
賠生產準備價當然都有責任我們願意來做這個整體的政策評估那先請法規盤點一下家長本來就有兩種義務這是法規教育基本法第八條家長負有輔導子女的責任又叫法第四十一條規範的更明確講得非常清楚父母應該參加教保服務機構舉辦的個案研討會或相關親職活動請問部長那這個法規是規定父母親要做這件事情但是如果你在制度上 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3177.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3197.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
沒有給予這個他行使保障他的責任的一個做法那你說削弱他履行這個義務的一個能力嘛我們其實也是因為這些相關的條文我們認為我們有義務來協助父母有更好的更友善的環境來去履行他包括要照顧跟教養子女這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3197.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3201.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
但是做法要具體跟快一點因為現在家長都是透過休假跟試假來處理所以部長請問你針對家長的輕職我們廣稱輕職責任的支持制度你要不要先進行一個法規盤點就是說明明它是被規範的當然我們有跟我們說明這也是為什麼我們現在正在檢討也預計想要來調整淵流亭的彈性化很重要的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3225.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3242.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
部長我們黨有提出輕職假跟期職假稍微跟部長說明一下民眾黨在性平法第十六條之一徵定輕職假他受雇者任職滿六個月後在子女滿八歲之前得申請輕職假可以用日或小時但是他是併入這個育嬰假的合併計算最長兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3243.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3254.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這個是我們參考瑞典輕職假彈性化的制度目的是讓家長能夠兼顧工作跟育兒因為有時候譬如幼兒他停託或上半天班 半天課那家長就會請假請個假來照顧孩子那這是第一點就我們是主張放在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3260.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3277.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
運營假裡面它是合併只是時間更長可以用的時間是更長那但是未來讓老闆們剛剛你也提到雇主不要太擔心我們也在規範裡面寫說是因為這個是可以計劃的你可以在10天前提出申請讓雇主有所準備那請部長再瞭解我們的第12條輕職教育假 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3279.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3296.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
為了讓親子教育更有效的進行我們要鼓勵他們參加校慶我那個年代叫母姐會你那個年代可能叫親師會其實有親子座談因為法官也就是我也承認我們年代差不多好 差很多我出生是四十幾萬人你出生才三十幾萬人所以爸爸媽媽在受護單位滿六個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3299.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3324.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
得請輕職教育教育我們的設計是這樣你有幾個小孩你就要讓他去參加譬如母姐會或親師會嘛那兩個小孩就兩天嘛一年就多兩天給他嘛我覺得這個很合理啊那請問部長我剛剛跟你介紹了我們提出的這個法案已經在排隊等了請問你是否支持我們這樣的修法方向我想其實這裡面有很多的精神就是看到這個相關法案的精神我覺得我們都可以來思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3325.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3351.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
博敦你要回答到具體要有信心啦我要看到當年的你啦就是很堅定的覺得對的方向就往前當然不信你這個人的決定委員這不是不堅定就是因為這裡面相關的制度涉及到很多的變動每一個制度其實都有它對應的配套或者是對應其實要怎麼樣讓各方都能夠可以運作的情況每個政黨爭取執政要福國利民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3352.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3373.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
當然所以其實在很多的精神上面目前朝野提出來的方向我認為是相近的我第一章已經告訴你現在人口是到亡國滅種的程度了亡國滅種了這也是為什麼勞動部認為雖然看起來這勞動部是為服務組的可是各部會都有義務跟責任要一起來促成讓這個相關的政策能夠更友善的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3374.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3398.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
最後一件事情就業保險法裡面就業保險津貼可不可能再考慮這個因為有新的價別這個親職價津貼親職教育價津貼及家庭照顧價津貼這幾項讓家長不用擔心說我養個育女我會有一些經濟上的損失陪伴的時候因為都喊國家也喊0到6歲國家養這個其實距離0到6歲國家養境界還非常遙遠但是至少要往這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3399.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3427.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
來推動這也是民進黨的口號這樣可以嗎這幾項跟我的說明這個救保的基金它主要在處理其實是在處理這個就業失業這個相關的給付所以它其實是跟這個就業失業有關的部分可以討論因為剛剛就把爸爸媽媽留在職場他們這個相對年輕都是最重要的生產力的來源那孩子也要養孩子是國家的資產所以這個就是在這個地方看看要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3429.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3443.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這個方向你的態度跟立場可以支持嗎這是為什麼我們現在比較希望由育嬰留庭的彈性化來著手因為育嬰留庭是目前救保裡面已經有的給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3445.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3465.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我今天提了好幾個因為瘤亭是舊保裡面既有的脊腹從舊保既有的脊腹裡面讓他能夠更好用更彈性比較能夠去處理我們現在的各種可能覺得小孩子要臨時會遇到照顧的需求其實是這個原因所以我們才目前是朝向這個方面來著手 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3467.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3485.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
部長就請你記得當你站在民意這邊的時候當你身為民意代表的時候跟你現在真的有權利來做的時候我也希望你這個想法就是一致的我們當時的主張我現在在做部長的時候我們現在就是盡力在落實謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長繼續我們請林業勤委員質詢麻煩洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3505.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3520.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
部長早在談我們的職場育兒政策的時候往往常常都講說家長的職癌還有企業的成本還有政府的財政不過今天要提醒部長就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3522.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3543.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這個議題的最核心 最不能忽略的就是孩子 也就是兒童的最佳利益那兒權公約在2014年已經國內法化 它第18條大概也提到說那我們的國家應該盡最大努力來確保父母雙方都能夠對兒童的養育跟發展都有共同的責任的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3544.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3564.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那也要有享有這樣子的一個就因為父母有權利享有他們有資格得到的育兒服務跟措施那所以想問部長說你是否同意這樣子的一個基本立場那你們目前的職場育兒政策有沒有把兒權公約所說的最佳利益納入到政策評估的標準跟過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3566.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3574.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們當然同意這個相關的公約的精神那當然也是希望就像剛才說的其實這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3576.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3603.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
兒童的養育其實父母雙方雙親其實對他有相關的責任這也是為什麼我們其實也在規劃這個讓職場更友善然後能夠讓父母雙方對兒童的養育盡他的責任的時候有一個更好更友善的環境尤其是也不希望我們只是偏廢父親或母親其中一方而是希望雙方都有這個共同的責任我想共同的責任是很關鍵的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3605.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3628.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
三ILO聯合國的那個僚工組織同樣也是這樣子的一個有這樣子的一個要求那像我們自己的兒少權法裡邊甚至民法裡邊大概都有去講到說父母跟監護人對兒童跟少年應付保護教養的責任甚至不可以讓孩子獨處那我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3629.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3651.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
教育基本法跟國民教育法裡面有類似的一些條文也就是說家長未未婦之女的學習權益跟協助正常發展應該配合學校的教學目標跟活動所以要督促孩子的活動上禮拜我們在討論兒託法的時候也有委員提出版本說未來父母都要盡力的去配合保母 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3652.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3666.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
或者是托嬰中心有辦的活動都要去積極甚至兒少全法說如果你們這樣做到的話事實上還有一些罰則換句話說我們的國家不是只有要求家長在孩子生病的時候要照顧他 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3668.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3696.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
而且要要求家长要积极参与孩子的生活那就回到一个这个应该也很熟悉就是这些调查这是台湾长期的一个现象七成的女性没有申请家庭照顾假是一半以上是因为各年龄层都有一些育儿照顾的一些感到的困难比如说29岁以下的话还有63%在工作上他认为的他的瓶颈是 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3697.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3717.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
因為生育中會中斷子癌所以這次你大概也是因為要提出這個政策也是希望能夠照顧不離子那30到39歲的大概有58%是因為工作家庭之後身心俱疲所以政府搭配的措施非常的重要可是現行法律明明就已經要求家長要 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3719.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3742.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
盡到育兒的責任 可是我們的嫁別的制度 坦白講真的跟得上嗎 像性平法裡邊我們的性工法裡面第20條 我們受僱者與家庭的成員要請家庭照顧嫁的時候第一個預防接種否則就是發生嚴重的疾病或其他的重大事故需親自照顧時才可以請 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3742.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3767.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我們的家庭照顧價而且顧主會不會合價也不確定那可是孩子有很多需求所以我說上週託法的時候還討論到說未來保母未來託嬰中心如果有辦活動的話那如果今天講育嬰假三歲以下那這些人都是會碰到的那他必須要去參與甚至有特殊需求的孩子那如果學校要 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3768.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3768.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
當初當初在 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3793.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3819.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
育嬰留庭的這個假裡邊要拿出來我們就非常肯認要拿出來可是看到示範的時候兩次的示範都不是用小時或者事實上是那大概都是要用天來看那個彈性程度所以難怪申請的人保母臨時有事長病毒停託課小孩需要陪伴員工想自行照顧新生兒這些的假期 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3820.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3835.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那比較難去看到有沒有有更多元的所以想問部長家長到底能請什麼假孩子如果沒有生病這些算是法條規範的重大事故嗎如果不准假的話那家長又該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3837.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3857.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
其實跟委員報告其實在這段時間我們其實也跟蠻多這個企業主那產業的代表在溝通討論這事因為剛才委員談的事情裡面其實委員你剛才談的一些部分裡面其實照理來說勞工如果提出雇主是不得拒絕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3858.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3882.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
其實很多雇主是不得拒絕的但是我們的確知道雇主會用各種方式明示暗示的方式那這個不希望這個勞工請這些相關的假這個我們也清楚可是我們也在跟雇主在溝通跟討論其實現在有很多的產業也一面一直在跟我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3883.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3904.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
抱怨跟提醒說少子化的問題讓這個缺工造成勞動力的匱乏其實僱主一方面也他們也很關心這件事情少子少子女化所以我也跟他們溝通說可是如果我們沒有辦法把我們的職場把它打造得更友善育兒育嬰的話那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3906.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3935.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
勞工願意生小孩的比例就會再更降低當勞工生小孩降低的時候我們的少子女化只會越嚴重少子女化越嚴重對未來整體台灣社會的勞動力的需求必定也會再更嚴峻這其實是一個循環所以我們其實也在跟僱主溝通像這樣子的概念所以剛剛在講的有些部分是法律上面確實已經有明定你是不能拒絕的這部分是有明定的但這裡面確實也還有一些是僱主觀念的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3936.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3957.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
當我們這樣跟僱主在溝通的時候我認為其實會有一些僱主蠻多僱主他是願意聽了下去的他也願意來看看說他自己在這個公司裡面相關的制度是不是有還可以再做調整對育兒育嬰能夠更友善的地方因為整體來說我想只要是這個活在台灣這個國家的一份子都不希望我們少子女化 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3958.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3978.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
像現在這個趨勢一直嚴重的這樣嚴重下去大家也不希望因為這會影響到社會很多層面所以這部分我們也在跟僱主在做相關的溝通要讓企業了解到因為影響的搞不好是五年十年後我們會問題更嚴峻所以可是解放都知道因為我們去年的11月13號也開了公聽會因為很多的民間團體跟專家學者 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3979.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4000.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
都在預告說那你可不可以變成是親子家不是只有育嬰留庭這樣的一個方式那因為友善育兒的職場政策都講了很多年了因為2002年在訂育嬰家的時候中間有四次的變革然後加上去年的公聽會那民間解放也很多次在跟甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4001.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4020.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
論證說國際大概怎麼去做所以我們是不是應該要去考量到更多元的方式是不是可以育嬰假延伸為親子假這個來做考量甚至延長到孩子小學階段因為日本事實上他們在前年的6月17號通過育兒介護修業法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4022.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4051.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那就已經有搭配到到小學階段都有各式各種的親子的請假方式那韓國呢是到8歲這個我覺得應該要去考慮為什麼因為前幾個李政次也說不考慮修法只做彈性措施可是彈性措施如果說今天你的身增加一個月可是彈性度不高的話不是有10或者是半天或者事實上是有更多元的甚至延長到更大的大齡的孩子的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4052.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4068.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以我相信要用真的事實上是蠻難的因為我們目前看到連事辦的企業都很少勞工申請的也不多如果不修法的話我覺得部長你要怎麼讓企業能夠去願意配合如何讓勞工有法律預計來改善現在的現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4069.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4086.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我想之前現在大家都確實看到之前事辦的狀況那之前事辦的狀況當然是有帶經濟的空間但我們也分析了裡面其實幾個原因包括當時事辦其實這個最低的時間其實是到三日三日到五日其實是到三日然後他其實也是讓很多的企業是自願性的來參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4088.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4115.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那這答案都是當時我們現在在檢討當時事辦為什麼成效上面大家覺得會跟期待上面有一段落差的原因所以剛剛現在委員在講到比方說促進男性的育幼參與的確我們在我們相關的數據裡面是可以看得出來當我們把這個像雲流亭他可以申請的日數在縮短的時候越縮短的時候其實男性的申請的比例就大幅的提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4116.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4141.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那這的確是很有助於促成在育兒上面的雙親的平均照顧的狀況所以我建議勞動部可能再去做考量是不是第一個事實上可不可以考量親子假然後把時間拉長像日本他們為了促進男性 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4141.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4161.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
他們的那個育嬰留庭給薪還給到百分之百真的讓他們男性來做參與部長再來就是我想提一個我一直很關心的青少年就業這一塊因為目前看到的就是說青少年就業問題呢像很多未升學未就業中錯的青少年是需要就業協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4162.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4177.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
跟職癌輔導的可是十多年來勞動部的救助的資源對這群年輕人來講成效事實上是非常低那這個數字也左手邊數字事實上是勞動部上週提供給我的許多的方案服務的數字都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4179.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4192.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
各位甚至掛鈴那過去經由民間團體倡議這個議題是交給職安署的兒少職場安全權益小組來統整 可是部長請問一下你對這個小組的運作有掌握嗎這之前是 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4198.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4224.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
跟委員報告這個部分的召集人是我們的李政事那我們是有定期在開會那相關的議題包括涉及到教育部或我們自己本身的發展組的部分我們都會在那邊提案因為這個小組有決議而且原本就是每半年大概因為我過去有參與就是說要檢討勞動部的各項方案的成效可是現在不只是成效低相關的分析也沒有有沒有去像甚至有 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4225.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4251.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
就是說現在你已經輔導有就業的那到底他們有穩定就業嗎那到底他們的整個狀況是什麼可是追蹤的數據都看不到因為我們每年有兩千多位的那個中離或處罰的少年他們就業就是生活所需而且不是去打工玩票的性質所以請問部長面對這種長期比較低效能的狀況裡邊你怎麼去看待勞動部對青少年的服務成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4254.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4272.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我想我會再來瞭解一下目前這個兒少安全權益小組相關的決議落實的狀況我們會來看一下那也會來看一下就是說在這個小組的運作裡面有哪些議題那可能會要再去深化或延伸這部分我們會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4275.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4284.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
會請責任署跟法案署來這個地方來再跟積木掌握一下 另外一個就是如果我們要有很對應的政策的話 照理來講你的數據要清楚 可是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4285.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4309.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
過去一直在倡議可不可以數據而且CRC在第一次國家國際審查的時候在2017年就一直在提醒政府部門的那個數據收集要按照比較合宜的國際的標準的那個年齡可是始終我們是18歲以下叫做我們的兒少可是你現在用到19歲所以我們沒辦法充分掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4310.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4325.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
所以我們過去建議說你要不要有18歲以下的年齡因為我們15到16就業有另外一套措施可是17到18事實上是所以我們就沒辦法去充分掌握說那到底就業的狀況是什麼是沒辦法了解的 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4325.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4341.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
所以這部分我覺得是不是也要請我們的勞動部這邊是不是給出一個你如果沒有這些數據的話我們坦白講我們不知道青少年整個工作樣態是什麼那你就沒有辦法定出來真的事實上是比較晚輩的18歲的未滿18歲的勞動政策所以這邊也麻煩部長這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4346.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4370.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
拜託請你們可以針對我們他們通常會去就業就是家裡有一些經濟狀況有困難甚至事實上是可能是沒有家庭的狀態裡邊那麼可能要用我們政府的自立生活方案那我覺得就業政策是不是有一些能夠去有一些好的數據能夠提供出來那以上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4371.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4390.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那部長這邊可不可以兩週內把針對這兩個再給我我想我針對青少年勞動救出的這個方案的部分我兩個星期應該是可以的好不好其實我們做相關的的一些檢討或者是剛才說數據統計上面的檢視我們再提供給你好謝謝部長謝謝謝謝林耀清委員謝謝部長林委員是啊是全民公約好OK |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4399.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4402.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
好我們繼續請陳秀慧委員好謝謝主席謝謝委員好那我們請部長陳委員好部長好上次我們曾經在這個大院做未還總質詢5月6號的時候您有討論到 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4429.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4447.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
院長很稱讚你啊那當時院長非常稱讚您說他知道您很重視彈性暈假這個議題那你也提到說現在事辦計畫是有問題的所以你要重新調整但當時我們時間不足所以你沒有具體說你遇到最大的問題是什麼可以在這邊請教你嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4450.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4463.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
其實的確這個應該是說彈性暈暈流停其實在彈性暈暈流停裡面其實要處理的幾個挑戰都包括對於很多的僱主來說他 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4465.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4487.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
要怎麼來應對可能這種比較臨時性的請假的需求他在人力調度上面需要怎麼樣的配套來去協助他尤其是台灣的中小企業比較多他在這個當他的員工數比較少的時候他要在做這種比較臨時性的調度的時候他遇到的挑戰會比較大我想這是這是你最主要的問題所以這是現在的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4489.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4506.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
當時您在院長前面說所以事辦計畫做得不好那你會再調整並且一個月會給我報告可是其實已經過了一個月了那你會針對這個調整其實我們只是想知道說你要如何做這個最大的調整去修正是 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4507.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4532.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
呃我還是因為其實關心的關心的委員很多第一個我們還是在希望那個這個方向就是能夠縮短能夠申請的日數他的日數的間隔那個單位能夠再更縮短這是第一個那第二個就是說剛才兼顧說那我們要怎麼兼顧尤其是剛才說到台灣很多中小企業的雇主他在會在臨時性的人力排班上面我們要怎麼去協助他那 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4534.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4559.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
避免比方說這個如果這個部分沒有弄好可能很多雇主還是會用各種方式不想要讓讓員工來請休所以他需要一個配套讓這件事情的執行性可行性能夠更高那您會有一個進度嗎因為當時您說你要改版再重新提出來可是我們不知道您這個改版的進度您預期什麼時候推出 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4560.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4584.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
新的事項跟委員報告其實我們其實現在是也在跟行政院來爭取配套的資源目前正在跟行政院來爭取配套的資源那我們也希望盡快但確實這個政策之所以歷經了這麼多任的部長一個很重要的原因確實是因為他需要處理的關卡還不少 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4585.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4594.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
包括執行面上面的關卡包括行政端上面的關卡其實還不少所以我們現在也一個一個在把這些關卡要把它給解開 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4595.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4614.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
所以你其實你還沒有一個進度的計劃表啦因為你要慢慢的把它解開絕對不是慢慢的我說我們希望競速而且我希望都可以在這個也許希望到這個夏天我們就能夠做一些相關的讓大家公布 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4617.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4631.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那下一個這邊要先稱讚您因為你看歷年來育嬰留庭幾戶的金額其實是在升高的表示他是往一個正向的發展但是針對就業保險法第19之2條要嚴密將育嬰津貼從6個月延長到7個月這個修法的進度第一想問這個修法進度如何第二是有蠻多人去反映說怕看得到吃不到因為必須同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4647.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4674.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
雙方都請了六個月才可以來延長到這第七個月那實際上真的雙方有達到六個月的你有統計出來嗎是很少的大概有兩萬多個人兩萬多個人是是對所以兩萬2.1萬個爸爸媽媽來取得這個第七個月的育兒津貼對對現行的資料那想問您這個修法進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4676.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4687.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
因為這個要涉及到修舊保我們目前預計應該是在下半年或者是在年底前我們希望能夠跟行政院提出舊保修法的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4687.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4711.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
好那我們等一下來討論一下是不是實際會幫助到這個申請的人增加因為你其實就是要提供誘因嘛好那第一個我想提供部長一個新的數據也就是台灣的離婚率一直在節節的上升目前是亞洲第二高去年我們就五萬多對離婚那 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4713.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4736.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
統計起來呢每一天平均是有146對離婚所以我是想爭取包括未來部長也很在意的人工生殖法也許會有單身的女性想要自己生小孩你會不會考慮你在做這個育嬰或是延長到七個月等等也可以含瓜進去單親家庭的這個範疇 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4737.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4748.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
要不要來你如果現在你現在如果你可以可以請申請運營留庭的就會有相關的權益啊是我說未來這個新的族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4750.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4777.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
當我們人工生殖法如果修過了之後你只要是你只要有育嬰留庭的你就可以有相關的權益啊我並沒有這個並沒有限對就是你有育嬰留庭的就可以有好因為這等一下我們再來講你的報告你的報告裡面其實是有列出有婚姻狀態或者是分居或者是離婚的狀態等等所申請育嬰留庭的數據好沒關係等一下我們再看就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4777.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4789.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那第二個我們來看一下這個表格你會不會覺得男跟女來申請這個合附的件數這個差距你要想要怎麼樣把它縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4791.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4810.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
根本說明就目前我們從統計的數字上看得到如果把請領可以申請的這個天數縮短男性申請的比例就會很明顯的上升比方說之前我們從原本因為留庭只能一次請六個月到應該是111年 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4813.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4839.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
110年當時110年的時候改成最短是可以用月來請的時候這個制度的變革就讓男性申請的比例提高蠻多的所以我們預計如果可以把它再更縮短可以請這個申請的天數的話男性申請的比例還會再提高所以今年夏天到年底以前你把它改得更彈性你會預計男女的比例會縮短我認為會 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4840.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4869.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
好是但我們還有一個結構性的問題啦當然就是要提到這個114年同酬日是2月27日也就是說女性需要比男性多工作58天才可以達到全年相同的薪資比較去年的2月25日其實是延後兩天的因此這個也有可能是一個變數那為什麼說這個是你需要分析的數據呢就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4870.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4879.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
113年勞動部最新的調查報告你們把育嬰留庭的申請人的數據做一個很好的分析但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4882.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4906.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
但是我在這邊要指出一個很具體的問題這樣子的分析如果在大學拿給這個教授看教授可能沒有辦法很認可也不是一個很好的論文你的男性只有分四項第一個是有12歲以下子女然後第二個有未滿3歲子女子女均在3歲以上沒有然後沒有就這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4907.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4922.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
女性的話你們是做的很具姓名義喔年齡層就分了五項教育程度從國中以下一直到研究所婚姻狀態那我當然也是從這邊看到你這邊婚姻狀態的話申請運流停的是非常非常少的關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4923.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4936.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
離婚上偶或是分居等等然後小孩的年紀有幾位小孩每月的薪資薪資還分成七八個級距有沒有特殊身份然後你還把女性分的職業別非常詳細裡面還包括名義代表農林漁牧業機械什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4943.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4964.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
非常多大概有10項然後行業別行業別至少就有20項公司的所在地就有4個地區的分別然後還細分說他們是不是有遇到雇主刁難啊離職啊歧視不平等待遇還有是不是因為擔心收入減少擔心失去工作業務繁忙等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4965.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4983.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個會不會不管是從性別的角度來看或者是你想要解決問題的角度來看分析數據你以後對你政策的推動或是革新會不會覺得這樣子的分類好像不太公平這個資料應該是不是行政性評會我請 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4986.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4993.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
因為當時行政院憲評會會希望我們勞動部在調查的時候針對女性一些相關的個別的包含剛剛委員提到的年齡啊教育程度婚姻狀況等等會希望我們並同在本來我們其實是針對有育兒的那個小孩的歲數的調查裡面那併進去去了解女性這邊的相關的狀況所以才會有委員您看到我們的調查裡面為什麼男女的項目別會有差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5015.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5038.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
這大概差了十萬八千里但您剛剛其實一直強調你的政策是希望男生也要請嘛男性也要請而且是多請可是你這樣的數據可能沒辦法協助你了解一些資訊啊如果你可以把兩邊的數據都做得一樣這樣不是可以更方便嗎我舉前幾天衛福部的案例他們的十大死因自殺率 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5040.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5063.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
跑到十大以前沒有他們就開始分年齡層分男女去分析結果每一個年齡層包括性別他的原因是不同的所以如果你沒有知道說為何男生跟女生會有差距然後他在意的點是什麼他是不是薪資結構不同學歷不同而申請育嬰假有所差別這樣你如何去修改你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5064.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5088.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這些政策呢這樣好不好 因為其實剛才就像市長說就是之所以女性會統計到這麼細當時是因為性評會裡面要求女性的地方希望特別再做更細但的確我也覺得如果女性的部分做得到這麼細的統計那其實男性的部分要比照我認為也是合理的事情所以這部分我們在統計的過程裡面我們就來把項目做得更細我想這沒有問題好 那我就期待您明年的報告好嗎好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5090.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5114.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
再來我是想提醒這個是我們在高速公路上有可能會看到臨時或是例行的路面修護必須要有的這個緩撞車或是緩衝車但是我們看右邊的數據你會覺得非常可怕因為從110年到113年他逐年事故的案件是上升那除了上升以外你也會在新聞上看到不只是追撞的駕駛會傷亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5115.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5135.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
作業的勞工也會有傷亡像四月就有一名這個工人同時跟駕駛當場就身亡了那我們會想要知道說像這樣子的緩衝車都是編制外的他就是民間的自行購買或是委外承攬的可是我們有求證過交通部交通部的道路管理規範裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5136.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5139.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
他有針對這個緩衝車做出指導比如說這個車屁股後面多長要放出警示多長的距離要引導車流變化然後500公尺為限制等等的那比起來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5153.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5174.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這個緩衝車我們有一個叫做高空作業車職安署就有很詳細的去做有高空吊掛或是懸吊的勞工是不是要怎麼管理還有約束雇主來確保安全是不是在這邊可以具體的建議你要不要對這樣子的緩衝車也來做一個作業的安全管理指引呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5176.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5189.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
跟委員報告 謝謝關於這個議題這個確實涉及到交通安全跟職業安全所以我們後面會再跟交通部這邊來洽商是不是請你方便一個月跟交通部有所聯繫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5191.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5216.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
一個月聯繫沒問題那如果要訂定這個相關的職業可能要再給我們一段時間我知道 那一個月可以跟您要一個報告你會朝哪一些方向這個是幫您找出來的就各種不同的職業他們會訂出比如在國道工作的人可能會對於保護眼睛是不是被砂石噴到噪音但是又同時可以知道後面是不是有車子以及背心 頭盔 安全鞋等等這一類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5220.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5237.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
好 那我想 我覺得跟文說我會請詹姍我們就一個月內 跟交通部聯絡那跟交通部聯絡 那先初步一些會上那怎麼把這個部分再做一些精進我們會把初步的跟交通部會上的結果再跟文說明好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長接下來我們請王毅民委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5252.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5254.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請部長部長好今天的主題是友善育兒照顧不離職那我們就要來檢討勞動部你們在友善育兒做的成效如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5271.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5298.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
第一個我要請部長看一下就是勞動部你們有責任去鼓勵企業新建這個托爾的設施或者是去更新改善托爾的措施但是這幾年來這個部長看一下新建托爾設施在113年竟然是掛零你們的補助經費是零所以代表新建的加速也是零這樣的成績部長請問你滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5302.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5324.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
確實我們認為其實這個新建其實我們都盡力的在推廣那當然這個會跟一些企業有沒有意願有關係所以今年其實我們目前也修正了把這個300萬的補助提高到500萬所以在今年這個今年第一期的補助裡面我們其實也看到有一家歷年得到最高的450萬的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5326.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5334.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
今年有一家可以打破鴨蛋但是也只有一家耶這個已經是六月了 那目前只有一家這個成績喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5336.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5347.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
這個成績本席不得不說這個成績真的是非常的差然後我們看到歷年來你都每一年大概不會超過5家從109年1家然後4家4家3家每況愈下113年是0家那即使剛剛有說今年可能預估會有2家來申請已經有了不是預估對 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5357.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5361.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那這個成績還是非常的差我要講的是說如果這個我們要講照顧不離職那你要讓這個女性的勞工她可以很安心在職場那他們現在最在乎的其實就是托育的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5373.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5396.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我們現在少子化非常的嚴重你要他多生育那他照顧的問題這的確是他一個很大的負擔所以從勞動部的角度我知道你們過去比較著重在一些其他的勞動安全跟勞動條件的事務上面但是現在大家對於勞動部的期待是更高的對於友善職場這一塊事實上你們可以去 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5397.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5425.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
去多增加你們的力量所以這一塊我看到你們報告說你們今年有去辦一些輔導說明會我希望這個部長你要再加大力道因為這一塊如果企業他可以在他的相關的場域裡面去設置這一些托兒事實上我不知道你有沒有去參訪過過去我去參訪過有些企業設置的真的是很好那這個可以讓勞工真的非常穩定的在他的這個工作職場上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5426.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5450.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
所以這一塊我希望這個部長你應該要再加把勁我想說的是說因為新建的托兒設施這當然是我們相關措施的其中之一啦是也很重要啊對那第二個是因為確實新建設施會牽涉到企業他是不是有足夠的空間包括土地等等所以我們這也是為什麼我們除了準備了這個相關的補助的的裁員以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5450.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5460.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
其實我們現在也希望能夠更積極如果企業有遇到相關的困難的話我們也願意派專家進場來去給予輔導來給予相關的建議你們去聯合衛福部這個我們也願意來做這個很重要另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5466.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5471.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我認為還要再增加的就是這個未來我也會提相關修法版本鼓勵企業他去投資那如果他因為你現在只補助500萬其實是不夠的他自己還要出很多錢那這個部分我們如果鼓勵他的話將來應該可以修法你們可以去跟這個經濟部討論就是可以減抵他的盈利事業所得稅等於說鼓勵企業在托爾設施的投資這一塊這個可以算入他的另外一個成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5496.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5502.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那這一塊我希望這個部長你也可以支持往這個方向就是我們多去獎勵企業做對的事情我想這個對於減緩我們國內的這個少子化也會有相關的幫忙這個部長你這個方向你支持嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5511.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5535.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我想這個我們都願意跟包括衛福部經濟部來做討論我們都願意一起參與這個討論那另外一個呢很重要的就是你自己過去也很支持的我們育嬰留庭以日請休的這件事情那你在接受專訪的時候你也公開表示你沒有放棄要提方案及配套但是今天呢在你們的報告當中我沒有看到任何的配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5536.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5548.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
或者是方案是什麼那我就要請教部長你這個育嬰留情以日請休什麼時候可以上路在您的規劃當中您的方案是什麼然後預計什麼時候可以開始做讓勞工可以按照日數來請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5553.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5579.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我們現在確實是目前正在這個方案最後盤整的階段預計什麼時候完成你告訴我期程就好我先讓委員知道就是說相關配套的資源我們目前在跟行政院爭取中所以當然這裡面會涉及到跟行政院爭取到之後那我們比較有更多的確認以後那我們會盡快的來跟大家公布我們的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5579.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5598.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
好 預計要多久 部長告訴我們期程就好我其實當然希望越快越好啊一個月這不是我現在跟你說一個月沒有 你做事情總要有目標嘛 你自己設定的目標我的目標當然是越快越好一個月甚至我心裡比你更急啊是喔 那下週公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5602.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5609.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我想跟委員說明這個政策其實歷經了好幾任的所以你要努力去落實你現在握有權利好不好所以這個部分來委員會這個提醒部長不能都是用模糊這樣子沒有報告一個期程事實上作為部長你就是要掌握那個方向跟目標你自己要設定 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5624.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5646.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
在這個政策上面我們是非常非常積極的甚至非常密集的會議在做這件事情那不早就問你一件事你會推到底就對了一定會讓彈性育嬰留庭以日請休在你任內你一定會讓這件事情實現這是你重要的政績跟目標可不可以這樣允諾我當然希望全力能夠去促成 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5646.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5675.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
好那我們就是希望你趕快提出你的方案是什麼不能只是接受專訪的時候都講近期你4月4月講的近期跟現在已經6月了這個近期可能沒有時間那麼久跟我說明齁其實這個政策歷經了幾任的部長為什麼其實一直在演繹中確實他需要去突破的關卡我知道但是你比歷任的部長更支持這件事啊因為你是曾經公開表態你做立委的時候你也是要立推的好不好所以你不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5676.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5704.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我希望你這件事情就是要在你任內要把它完成自己講的要做到夠好那另外一個是家庭照顧假的部分這個部分現在其實很多女性在請假過程當中還是有遭到歧視的問題我希望你們可以去在你的那個彈性育嬰還沒有可以以日去請假的時候他們現在能用的大概就是家庭照顧假那在這個部分如果有這樣的情況的話請問勞動部如果他有遭到歧視你們可以提供什麼協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5708.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5728.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
第一個其實確實這裡面涉及到剛剛就像之前討論到其實一些雇主我覺得他其實在這個職場的文化上面對於請這些假其實都還有不友善的地方我覺得這部分我們也希望能夠一步一步的跟我們的雇主跟企業能夠做觀念上的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5729.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5747.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
的確因為台灣的中小企業比較多所以在溝通上面我們會再更努力來做這方面的溝通那第二個事情第二個是說這個家庭照顧假的請休我們其實也希望能夠讓他更彈性如果家庭照顧假能夠更彈性的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5749.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5773.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
也許今天有一個室友他不一定非得要請到一整天是啊 可以以小時為單位那如果能夠更彈性的話應該也有助於牢固雙方更容易接受這個申請的狀況所以這一塊你也要鬆綁嗎家庭照顧假以按小時可以請我們都在整體的願意那你會跟著你的那個育嬰假就是以日可以請假的一起嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5774.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5797.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我們都是在做整體的研議所以這會是一個整體我們對於照顧部理整體的方案的規劃好我希望部長你不要只是一直講近日這件事情大家有所期待所以大家其實會希望你們盡快這個有利於勞工也有利於未來改善少子化的政策你應該要很用力的去推最後我要問你就是最近關稅的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5799.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5816.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
昨天有非常多的勞工團體才召開記者會他說這個卓院長是重勞板輕勞工卓院長跟資方包括總統開了非常多的溝通會議那到目前為止他們說跟勞工公會的座談是掛鈴 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5818.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5839.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
卓院長是不是比較重企業老闆比較忽略勞工為什麼可以跟資方開這麼多的溝通會議但是關稅這件事情也衝擊到勞工為什麼不肯坐下來跟勞工可以有一場面對面的至少開一場都好但是到目前為止勞工的說法是一場都沒有為什麼會有這樣的一個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5843.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5855.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
其實從4月初美國政府宣布官方後其實我想勞動部裡面尤其是我自己親自其實一直到上禮拜我們都還在跟不是你他們講的是院長他們開記者會是說院長竟然這麼重視職方那行政院也應該要重視勞方啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5865.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5870.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我們其實到現在都還非常非常主動的去邀集這個部分其實也是院長指示我們來做的那這件事你可以促成嗎工會已經勞工官網已經提出這樣的一個訴求了他希望可以也邀請勞方一起來座談你跟卓院長關係也很好啊你可以去告訴他說應該他也要坐下來親自聽一下勞工朋友的意見是什麼他們在焦慮什麼在擔心什麼因為到目前為止無薪假已經是38家超過1000人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5893.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5906.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
最近不只是關稅的問題加上美國的這個我們的台幣升值這個我連自己在走訪一些企業的時候這個傳產企業他們就說這一波的這個新台幣的升值對他們的傷比關稅還要來得更大是超過10%所以他說這個再不改善的話他們有些人是真的撐不下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5918.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5937.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
所以這件事情不只衝擊到老闆勞工也是首當其衝因為他就五星家他就裁員了他一個家庭他的收入就沒有了所以我覺得這件事情既然這個勞官盟都已經公開這個開了記者會我希望這個部長你要跟主任打反應我們會把相關的聲音反映給行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5937.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5960.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
近期內儘快召開一場會議來安勞工的心因為他們要聽到不只是部長你的聲音而是院長因為這件關稅的事情知識體大是要院長層級的才可以解決好不好我們會把相關聲音反映給行政院好 謝謝好 謝謝王議員 謝謝部長那接著我們請邱正軍委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5971.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5972.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
主席好 我們請洪部長我先讓你聽一段錄音 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5988.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5995.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
任何的一個決策但是如果有想要建立所謂的單位的企業公路那還是比較容易再次強調這個就是跟便利公路 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6005.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6027.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我們絕對不會再客氣因為過去總是成立產業公會、加入企業公會那是你個人的一個權利但是你如果要成立單位的企業公會那不要緊因為目前台電唯一合法的企業公會就是產業公會你不要再搞那麼多的權利這部分我們絕對會嚴厲的來主張感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6037.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6061.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
部長我剛讓你聽到的是在台電配售店系統勞資溝通協商會議上的正式發言那台電總工會秘書長蕭玄宗對全體的這個主管和員工說如果今天有人想成立廠廠企業工會就是跟我們為敵我們不會再客氣那勞動部身為這個主管機關部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6063.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6090.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
根據憲法第14條 憲判制第7號還有工會法第6條這段話有沒有違法或違憲請你告訴大家這段言論違反了哪些法律保障的這個權利這個這個錄音是真的嗎當然是真的啊我其實沒有聽得很清楚耶待會再拿我們等一下傳一份給我們部長回去慢慢聽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6093.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6112.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
對,所以...因為我剛才真的...我其實真的沒有辦法講...我就講啦,像他現在講的重點就是說這個...如果有人要成立這個廠廠企業工會的話就是以他們工會為敵嘛那他們就不會再客氣請問部長這有沒有違憲?有沒有違反法律保障的這個權利? |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6115.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6142.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我想其實因為第一個我剛才還是要說我真的沒有不確定我聽到的內容然後那這個工會裡面的成員他怎麼樣去做這個事情的表述當然這就是我們很難我們很難去說工會他說他與誰會敵我們就說他違反什麼法律啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6143.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6151.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這是工會 你是意思說這是工會內部的言論是吧這是邱委員你說的啊那你的意思是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6156.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6173.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
邱委員你不是說這是工會內部的言論嗎那他內部的這個言論你現在的意思是什麼啊對啊就是邱委員我不是我們不是法官我們沒有辦法說工會他那我現在把他的成員我現在把他跟你講嘛有這件事情嘛有這件事情嘛你們是主管機關嘛你認為怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6175.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6196.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
你的看法是什麼?我們沒有辦法去跟工會說你不能說自己跟誰好跟誰為敵我們沒有辦法去說這個是不是就已經違反了憲判的這個憲判第七還有我們工會法第六條的這個精神如果你剛才講你講的這個錄音跟內容為真可是這也是工會的成員 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6198.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6222.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
他自己在敘述的今天任何一個人說他與誰為敵我要說他違法他是工會的秘書長你這樣是不是等於恐嚇我們的老公工會的秘書長就是工會的成員啊對 他是不是恐嚇他們的人呢第一個我不確定他是在什麼場合裡面說明的我剛剛就講了嘛是配售店系統的勞資溝通協商會議上講的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6229.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6253.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我們很難透過這樣子片段的資訊因為我其實也沒有辦法了解他現場的情境我們現在假設這件事情我現在講你現在是質疑這個東西是不是什麼場合你不知道然後甚至於說是不是真的錄影你不知道那如果是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6255.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6270.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
如果是真的今天任何一個工會的成員他表達他跟誰好他主張什麼事情他不主張什麼事情這件事情就要我們作為一個勞動部的行政機關去說你這是違法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6273.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6290.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
這個當然不是言論自由,我認為這個是組織性的寒蟬效益,這個也是一種壓制性的這個壓制結社打壓的一個行為,那如果主管機關連這個叫做表達意見,那工會霸權以後會更囂張不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6293.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6315.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這個跟委員說我們怎麼促成讓工會的自主性或者是可以更有空間這件事情我們可以討論可是很難拿這工會的內部成員的一句話就來斷定這是打壓還是霸權還是什麼畢竟工會的成員他也沒有掌權憲法有沒有保障結社自由嗎當然有那工會法第六條有沒有禁止干涉勞工組織自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6318.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6329.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
有沒有 你就要配答原文就好跟文說明就是你剛才如果是只是針對他的這一句話然後就要我們斷定說這是一個違法的或者是所以你的意思說以後都可以這樣來恐嚇員工就對了部長的態度是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6334.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6350.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個是不是恐嚇我想這部分就是有法律這個當然沒有法律有法律司法來再去做斷定我跟你講這個是沒有法則沒錯但是我覺得你勞動部必須要有一個立場有一個原則是不是不能鼓勵這種情形發生這個我今天問你是這個態度第一個跟各位說我們並沒有鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6354.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6380.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我們並沒有鼓勵這些任何的言論我們並沒有鼓勵但是委員你叫我去斷定說這樣講是不是就違法我沒有說他違法我現在跟你講你跟他講是違法啊沒有 我沒有說他不行沒有罰則嘛 對不對現在是沒有罰則對不對不是 那我現在講的意思是說這種言論發生在國營事業內部你們身為這個主管機關如果你們都不管那就是默認這種行為是對的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6383.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6410.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
郭文在說明這個工會內部成員他在主觀上面做的這個敘述我們真的是沒有辦法直接去斷定你這就是違法或判定他就是違法不管有罰則或沒罰則我沒有說叫你去判斷我只是說這種行為對不對這個文你可以有自己的評價但是我想還是要提醒你啦法律寫得再不漂亮啦我們遇到懦弱的官員一樣沒有用啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6411.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6415.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那接下來第二題啦 因為時間也不夠那我再問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6417.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6443.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
五名來自越南勞工所受僱於某食品公司任職期間遭公司董事長的配偶也就是公司董事周軍多次以交包粽子為由肢體碰觸包包臉靠近申訴人的這個臉貼很近手往前抱或用雙手夾緊手等這個行為那麼新北市政府認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6444.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6447.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這個是符合職場性騷擾並開罰州軍10萬元州軍不服嘛然後提起疏遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6451.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6473.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那部長我想請問一下現在我們訴願會說因為董事不是最高負責人所以不能罰那你們自己的法條第三條第三款明擺寫代表僱主行使管理權之人適同僱主請問這位董事長掛名董事長的配偶掛名董事他現在他在現場親自指揮員工在現場交包粽子 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6477.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6485.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
甚至給指示下命令安排員工做出工作指示那他就是行使管理權的人嘛依法應該適同雇主這樣對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6489.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6502.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
跟委員報告 委員關心的這個案子這家公司的員工的性騷擾我們是肯認他的確性騷擾成立並且地方政府依法裁罰這件事情是成立的對 但是後來你不是撤銷他的我們針對請新北市再查明的是說我們的性騷擾的相關的規定是這家公司他針對相關的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6513.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6532.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我們是肯定說他有違反性騷擾我們保護這個勞工可是性騷擾他的那個行為人是不是該公司的最高負責人這是另外一條的處分那因為他公司有另外一個最高負責人所以我們請新北市再查明說你針對這個行為人你認定是最高最高負責人這一塊請他再查明另處 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6538.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6567.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
對我知道你現在也對他們的公司罰了嘛對不對是是是那現在行為人沒有受罰我的重點在這裡對他的關鍵點是說他公司本身是有一個最高負責人所以你們是只罰公司所以行為人不用罰就對了那我們針對行為人這個就像一個你知道就是房子啊失火了被人縱火然後你去罰那個房子的人沒有消防安檢不合格然後縱火的人就放了 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6568.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6592.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我知道你的意思你現在想要你現在想要提出來的事情是說對於最高負責任的認定的資格的範圍的問題那我有聽聞過這個案子那也有工會的成員來跟我表達這個案子希望我們再來多研議關於這個最高負責任的範圍應該要怎麼去認定這件事我認為這部分我們也願意來再做一些檢視我現在講的就是我們這個是法規的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6596.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6622.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
還是這個標準的問題我想這個可能要講就是關於最高的話我們不能夠去這個行為人我們不能夠說這樣就不處分就是最高負責人的認定的這個範圍其實這個其實確實現在會有不同的尤其是工會的朋友其實有來跟我們說希望我們再做一些檢視然後跟確認好不然你是答應就是會去做我們願意來這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6624.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6652.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
最高負責的範圍但是這一個案例裡面就我知道其實性騷擾是成立的對 沒錯性騷擾是成立的只是要不要適用那個最高負責人的這一個條文來去處理這個案件我現在的意思就是說他現在你去處理公司這個本來是規定嘛那但是現在行為人漏了是我的意思是這樣所以我說這個部分我們願意再來檢視一次這樣子那最後我提醒一下啦因為今天的主題啦給我一分鐘我們知道我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6655.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6678.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
職場育兒環境的這個部分所以我們男性請育嬰假大部分都能夠回歸這個職場那到去年底大概有32.3萬人勤領女性占了24萬男性只有8.2萬人雖然男性成長了64%但比例仍是偏低啦我現在提醒的就是說我們的上限就是最高投保薪資的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6679.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6691.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
是四萬五千八對不對四萬五千八那我們現在是以這個八成來計算那有些男性他的薪水可能更高可能更高那是不是就造成他不願意去 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6693.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6710.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
領這個 你懂我意思嗎 去請領這個因為請領這個他等一下 剩下三萬多那他還不如請保姆嘛所以這個也是一個問題啦就是說請部裡面把這個東西也列入考量我們認為男性身群遺留庭並不是障礙在哪裡的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6712.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6731.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
它之所以比例比較低我認為它不是比女性有更多的障礙確實我們過去的職場文化裡面容易把照顧的責任比較多的是押注在女性身上所以我們不是用怎麼樣這個障礙的角度去看我們怎麼樣去通過制度來促成大家共同的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6732.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6760.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那我覺得我們的制度設計是這樣而不是把說現在男性情侶比較低是因為他遇到了什麼障礙或比女性更多的障礙我們倒不覺得是這樣但我是這樣覺得啦就是說這個部分你們還是列入考量啦就因為男性他情侶比較低會不會是因為他的這個薪資比較高那但是你這樣扣減下來對他來講划不來所以他就沒有事情如果你要去處理的話應該是想辦法讓女性的薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6762.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6782.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這個盡量拉近男性而不是不只是把說設定說男性性質比較高所以我為了要讓男性多親所以你的意思是說女性的話你可以拉高就對了想拉高我們政策上當然希望但是政策上當然希望好那我們各等部長兩性的政策這會我們的我們的目標當然是我們做這樣的希望我們都等不完的好消息好不好好謝謝好謝謝邱委員謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6788.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6795.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那我們請黃秀芳委員執行,那在圖前級委員執行完畢後,我們休息六分鐘謝謝主席,我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6812.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6832.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我們今天討論營造友善職場育兒環境落實照顧不離職的政策規劃我想請教邱委員有特別提到好像一般育兒的這個部分好像這種責任在我們現在目前好像感覺是落在女性的身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6833.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6846.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那也會造成就是說這個女性從結婚然後生完小孩之後有很多如果是孩子是自己顧的話通常都是女性就是離開職場然後照顧小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6849.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6873.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個通常大部分都是這樣子我想請教就是說我們也看到就是說勞發署這邊也很積極就是說如果孩子長大之後那婦女能夠二度就業的這個媒合我看到你們也都非常的積極那也跟民間的很多團體有一些合作像地方的一些婦女團體他們也有特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6875.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6894.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
針對這個婦女的二度就業有提出來一些譬如說研討或者是讓這些婦女能夠透過一些座談然後讓他們再進到職場我想請教部長就是說我們看到這個國外的一些例子就是說以芬蘭為例就是說芬蘭他們針對未滿三歲然後沒有送托的這個家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6900.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6925.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
發放每個月高達一萬三千元一萬三千元的育兒津貼那後來他們也有發現就是說這個津貼每增加一百歐元那女性的勞參率就會下降1.5那我想請教部長就是說你們有針對這個去做一些研究那怎麼樣讓我們透過什麼樣的政策然後讓婦女的勞參率能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6929.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6937.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
能夠不會因為我們補助的關係然後降低這個勞參率我不知道說你們有沒有做這樣的一個研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6938.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6960.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
可能跟文說沒有因為確實像育兒津貼目前我們的業管單位是在衛福部是那勞工部部分我們主要會是針對勞保或國民研經的生育給付的部分的發放不過我們也很清楚文的提醒這也是為什麼我們其實現在當然就是像在推動這個彈性病流停像這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6961.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6977.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
的政策在目前在規劃中其實就是希望更多的把女性留在職場上那維持勞產率我現在問就是如果是針對育兒津貼的發放的金額的高跟低對於勞產率目前我們應該看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6977.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6993.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
是還沒有這樣子相關的數據的研究是是是好那我們也當然希望就是說婦女都能夠留在這個職場上那當然如果婦女要留在職場上應該就是說讓她能夠安心的上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6994.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7019.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那孩子有人照顧這個就是一個非常重要的一個環節那我想請教就是說我們看到我們目前的這個育兒政策就是說以目前來講我們以我們的助理來講好了就是說我們的助理他本身也有孩子那他要來上班把孩子送到幼兒園那幼兒園通常他們的那個上課時間可能到4點 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7020.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7039.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
也許到4點那國小的話也是到4點左右那如果你要在時間如果要再增加的話或者是要延長的話如果國小的話通常都到安親班那如果幼兒園的話可能要請幼兒園的老師可能我們可能會再著收費用然後請幼兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7040.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7063.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
幼兒園的老師在照顧可能再多一兩個小時這樣子那我想請教部長就是說我們有沒有可能針對這個家庭育兒的需求那我們來建置這樣的一個公共化的幼兒園或者是國小針對這樣的一個家庭的需求然後這個時間是往後延的其實我們現在這個在協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7068.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7094.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
很多婦女平衡他的工作跟家庭照顧需求其實我們現在就有這個雇主的工時調整的獎勵就是說如果這個雇主願意來協助做工時上面的挪移跟調整那更方便我們這家長來去包括像這些小孩等等的話其實我們可以獎勵其實我們就有這樣方面的獎勵那是針對雇主方面嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7095.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7108.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那如果像一般的我們的幼兒園或者是國小其實我覺得這個應該勞動部應該也可以跟國小就是教育部這邊可能也可以來做一些討論就是針對家庭的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7109.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7133.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那是不是這個時間可以延長我覺得說因為以目前來講的話如果國小的話四點下課那通常孩子可能就會直接送到安親班那有的如果沒有送到安親班的話也許是家人接走這樣子那我不知道說有沒有可能就是因為要有一些友善的職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7134.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7162.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那是不是說我們勞動部跟教育部也可以針對也是一個跨部會的討論是不是有可能是這樣子我知道委員現在的在這個想法的用意當然就是說就勞工的下班的時間跟這個兒童他可能離開學校的時間怎麼樣子能夠去做結合的對接讓大家可以更方便那這部分我們其實是願意跟教育部或者是衛福部因為如果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7163.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7190.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
托嬰托兒的話主要是衛福部這邊在管理我們當然願意跟他們來做討論不過的確現在剛剛就委員講說包括這個托兒所或者是學校這部分他們的時間這可能還是其他目的世界主管機關在主管但我們很願意跟他們來討論這兩邊怎麼協調能夠讓這個銜接的部分然後更沒有阻礙或者是更沒有落差我們當然願意大家來研擬跟討論這個想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7192.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7210.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們希望可以啦因為確實很多家長他們因為工作的關係然後你學校可能四點然後幼兒園可能也四點下課所以會造成一些困擾我覺得應該我們可以朝著這個方向去努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7210.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7231.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所以我們也是考慮到在這一點所以我們其實才推出這個雇主工時調整的獎勵就是至少在職場的工時端希望讓他更有彈性去去滿足可能這個家長婦女他要去照顧小孩或接送小孩的這樣的需求其實我們也是因為這個原因才推出這樣的獎勵所以用意是相同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7232.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7237.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那部長接下來我想請教就是說在前陣子就是那個長榮在2019年就是長榮的那個空服員發動這個罷工事件那後來到今年就是2025年的4月24就是最高法院民事判決駁回長榮航空的上訴就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7255.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7269.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
資方就是有去告這些工會的人那我想請教就是說這個罷工應該也是勞工的一個權利啦那如果說因為罷工然後資方又提起訴訟那這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7272.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7285.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
訴訟就經過了六年的時間其實對勞工來講其實是一個很大的煎熬尤其是長榮是一個大公司那這些工會的成員被這樣子六年的時間其實我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7287.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7314.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
到目前我們看到就是說還繼續留在這個公司就剩下四個人繼續留在公會繼續擔任幹部那有的就已經離職了那我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為我覺得罷工應該是勞工的一個權利那因為罷工然後公司提起訴訟那這樣子的話如果未來還是有這樣的一個情形發生的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7315.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7318.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我覺得對整個勞工會有一個寒蟬效應我想聽聽我們部長的一個想法另外就是說其實資方提起訴訟的時候其實很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7332.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7361.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這個這些空服員他們也會擔心就是有被秋後算帳的這樣的一個情形所以我想聽聽部長的一個想法就是說未來也許還有其他的這個工會或其他的公司有這樣的一個罷工的情形然後資方可能又提起訴訟會讓這個可能勞方可能會未來不太敢因為某種因素然後不敢再提出這樣的一個罷工的這種情形那我想聽聽部長的一個想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7364.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7376.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這個跟黃委員說明這個目前這個案子那現在經過勞動部裡面不當勞動行為的裁決委員會那目前其實已經做成認定就是說這個長榮的資方其實對幹部 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7378.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7393.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
他們提起相關的訴訟因為罷工的問題那目前其實是已經認定長榮是有這個行為已經是構成了不當勞動行為所以我想我們在這上面的態度是清楚的那有一些細節我可以請好 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7395.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7416.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
跟委員報告當初我們裁決委員會是這樣認為因為罷工後第二天他馬上向法院提起非常高的訴訟的金額那不僅是對工會還對所有的幹部個人第二個就是他的速度很快我們認為他是某程度是施壓於工會的罷工 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7417.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7437.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以當初我們裁決委員會就認為說這已經構成不當容的行為了那高等刑侍法院也很支持我們當然最高刑侍法院認為說訴訟權是每一個人在憲法上擁有的那他最高法院的看法跟我們不太一樣不過民事法院也支持民事法院認為說這是合法的訴訟不應該有任何的求償 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7439 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7459.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
那也跟委員報告我們在公會法適應細則都有明定第三十條我們明定如果雇主對於勞工參與或支持公會決議所為的行為威脅提起或提起顯不相當的民事訴訟賠償訴訟我們認為這就是不利待遇所以我們也是這一條呢也就是說我們現在也是對我們的資防的呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7460.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7468.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
不可以對公會提起他們提起的合法的正義行為是你其實顯不相當的一個訴訟要求的賠償這會構成不當行為是好其實我看到這個其實我會擔心就是說未來這個公會提起他們的這個權利的話那資方如果提起訴訟的話其實會真的會有一個寒產效應 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7484.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7504.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這一件事也需要去正視那未來如果有類似的一個狀況我覺得你們動作也很快當然就是說勞工有自己的權利那我覺得勞動部就是要去保障勞工的一個基本的權利你們要成為勞工最好的後盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7505.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7523.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那個我想這個黃委員提的這個類似的案件的話我想勞工部的態度是清楚的這個罷工是只要是合法的其實都是勞工或公會其實有的相關的權益那不應該用任何的方式去做阻擾妨礙甚至是打壓是好好謝謝好謝謝好謝謝黃委員謝謝部長那接著我們請圖前幾位質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7539.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7542.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
好 謝謝主席 那請我們洪聖范 洪部長還有我們勞動條件室 黃師長 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7550.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7567.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
部長你好我想今天跟你討論一下有關於我們國防部新制教育召集新制跟我們勞工上班休假之間的關係那因為我們現在國際地緣政治的劇烈變化我們國軍從民國111年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7570.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7580.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就提出我們教育召集新制那請問一下部長知道這個教召新制的內容跟我們過去的舊制有什麼不同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7585.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7613.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
好 沒關係我沒有那麼了解這個問題沒關係大概我們說明一下因為我們111年那時候開始提出我們教召新制到113年它是舊制跟新制來並行到114年我們大概新制就到達八成那我們在115年我們教召新制會全面上路那就是全部會採用14天的新制 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7614.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7632.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
大概跟部長說明一下那新制跟舊制最大的不同就是舊制它是5天到7天新制是14天那它裡面的項目之前舊制是射擊跟戰鬥大概各12個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7633.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7656.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
那可是推新制之後我們射擊會到28個小時戰鬥訓練會到56個小時那特別他還增加了很多的項目像行軍訴贏戰傷急救障礙物破壞與通過戰鬥間各種狀況處置等等而且其實他每天這個訓練白天8個小時晚上2個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7661.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7678.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那最主要是要跟部長討論其實這個教招新制推動之後很多網友也在討論這個訓練真的是非常的精實那說教招新制對後備軍人的訓練是非常非常的扎實 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7679.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7695.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那現在重點是他14天受完這個訓練之後其實嚴格來講這訓練很扎實其實也是很操啦可是如果說他這14天受完訓之後馬上回到職場馬上就要接著要上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7696.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7721.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
要上工那有些他甚至是輪班制的有可能馬上就要上五六天那等於說他大概會有19天到20天他都是沒有休假的那這一部分的問題我覺得對於勞工沒有這個緩衝休息的時間那部長你有沒有一個看法那等於說其實他等於是一個月內他就連上20天的班 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7725.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7748.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
委員這邊關心的是我們當我們叫招14天完之後勞工是不是又要立即上工那這個部分的話其實現在的勞基法規定相關的例假休假每7天一定要有例假休假那當一個勞工去做接受叫招的時候第二天回來的時候雇主跟勞工可以協商他的例假休假就是排在第二天要上班的那個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7749.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7769.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
因為他去叫招期間是沒有相關的例假休假那個是因為叫招的部分其實是沒有需要例假休假但是他們雙方可以去協商第二天就排例假休假讓勞工有充足的休息之後再上班其實對於雇主也是會有更好的勞動力 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7771.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7781.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那協商是勞工自己跟雇主自行協商還是有一個規定就是說因為你擔心如果以雇主來講他會認為你已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7783.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7810.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
叫招14天那你回來待會馬上要到工作崗位上那有沒有明定說是不是他14天回來第二天應該要給他休息因為現在不像以前說一上去到好像是只是上上課像度假一樣我剛剛那個凸顯的重點是這14天是非常精實耶白天8個小時晚上2個小時10個小時而且你看他的訓練內容那是很糙的耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7810.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7830.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那回來14天就很累第二天馬上開始到職場有時候又輪班他等到休假等於連上19天連上20天那會不會有工作上的職場的一些安全疑慮因為他這個教召不像以前我們印象中好像去上上課上課好像還可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7832.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7855.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
睡覺還可以休息他這個很紮實很堅實而且受過訓的都說這個真的就像完全在當兵一樣甚至還不輸以前當兵是謝謝委員過去教召的確5日的狀況之下勞工回來其實就是剛好5天剛好回來就是他的例假休假但是因為各行各業相關的排班不盡相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7856.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7884.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那這個部分委員其實提醒我們我們其實會跟地方政府大家做好一致就是輔導轄區內的事業單位其實這個部分讓事業單位知道說我們相關國家的法令叫招的規定的改變那讓我們的這個地方政府去告訴事業單位其實雙方因為這個14天的叫招例假休假的排定其實最好對於勞資雙方最好的方式就是回來就像委員講的其實應該把他的例假休假就 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7885.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7908.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
應該讓他排定讓他休息我這邊建議啦因為這個事情因為其實很多的像總工會還有很多的勞團都有提出啦那因為剛剛我們黃師長的說法是他們自行去協調我覺得應該要有一個明確就是說他今天去教早14天之後他回來那一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7909.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7933.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
休假的部分我們宿民地要怎麼去處理應該勞動部跟國防部這邊應該要去跨部會去研議這個問題不然你對我們現在大家一直說要推動全民國防那這樣子對社會大眾對這個叫招的觀感我們要如何去讓他建立去叫招也不是他願意的他去到受訓又這麼辛苦回來馬上 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7935.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7959.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
如果以雇主來講你已經14天沒上班你會當然馬上要進入職場啊所以這部分勞動部跟國防部應該要有一個研議一個方法是不是怎麼去完善怎麼去調整這樣子的問題那個對因為剛剛其實黃長其實我們也有有談到說我們來思考一下怎麼促成比方說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7961.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7977.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
老公跟雇主的協商裡面能夠讓這個在叫到14天之後能夠有一些適當的休息的這個狀況我想我們來來來思考一下怎麼盡量的方式來去更多的促成這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7977.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8005.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
好我希望這個勞動部跟國防部你們去研議一下看是不是後面可以給我們一個書面報告有沒有什麼比較研議出來一個比較具體的方法怎麼去做就是說我們怎麼樣來鼓勵我們怎麼樣來鼓勵這個雇主其實應該把這個教召的14天剛剛就是委員講說他現在是很矜持的那在這麼矜持的狀況之下他有一定身心上面負荷的強度那怎麼樣大家在這個結束教召以後他 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8006.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8030.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
有機會可以有多一點的適當的休息這部分我想我們願意來在這部分做多一點思考對啊我希望說演繹一個比較明確的方法剛剛司長講的說讓僱主跟勞工自己去協調這個基本上沒有任何的強制力啦那到時候說不行就不行那他還是要乖乖去上班啦那到時候萬一發生職場一些安全疑慮的時候誰負責並不是他這14天不是去度假 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8032.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8043.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那這部分請我們勞動部國防部來研議一下那還有針對我們最近我們大家知道最近詐騙很猖獗像2024年我們詐騙這個金額就高達到502億是兩2019年前的11倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8052.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8081.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那這一部分當然我們勞動部在暑假求職期間也一直在宣導年輕人小心求職詐騙那這一部分我們勞動部也做得蠻落實的也一直提醒大家說在FB社群網站或者LINE即時通訊這一部分很多的不實廣告很多的詐騙的陷阱也告訴我們勞工這些求職的時候一定要特別的注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8082.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8093.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
可是現在我們發現一個問題就是在104應聘履歷這一部分我們發現他不是現在不是詐騙勞工現在感覺是詐騙雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8097.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8120.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
就是他這個去投這個履歷其實裡面設了很多的陷阱像我們我們這次招聘助理的時候我們發現他們來應徵電話是空號而且說自己是民國90年生然後又講年齡23歲然後條件也寫得很好在公研院擔任助理參與先進資料研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8122.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8149.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
專案獨立收集整理科學文獻然後又在實驗室執行樣品測試數據分析優化測試流程讓實驗效率提升20%這個經驗各方面的資歷給我們感覺非常好但是有點太誇大了然後我們感覺可能是AI去寫的那這一部分我們要講的這一部分就是說後來我們去 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8152.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8161.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
點開他這個點開他這個電子電子通訊我們去跟他聯繫喔發現他裡面好像要我們開啟這個檔案好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8164.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8187.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
感覺電腦怕會中毒而且進去以後可能就是一些詐騙的情勢那針對這部分我們發現104裡面本身並沒有一個平台讓我們去投訴可以說是求助無門所以這部分勞動部是不是應該跟我們104這個平台系統去演繹一下不但是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8188.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8215.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
今天去求職有可能碰到陷阱今天連這個僱主都有可能會被這個印證的這些資料而去收到這個假的檔案進去可能電腦中毒甚至有可能也會被僱主也會被詐騙那是不是這一部分我們勞動部有沒有發現到這個情勢啊所以委員你們當中是被剛剛那個照片騙了 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8217.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8240.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
可是他們進去以後發現有問題以後他就沒有再點進去我們今天要講的意思是說本來我們以為只是求職會被騙結果沒有想到你今天連雇主去徵才都有這麼多的陷阱所以當然我們的助理在第一時間發現不對他就沒有點進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8241.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8257.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
所以我們今天凸顯這個事情就是說連僱主都有可能被這個詐騙的陷阱所受騙到所以呃第一個這委員這表示你的注意非常優秀就是他很有治安的意思那第二個是說呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8260.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8281.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我們會我們我們可以來跟這個內政部來來討論一下那針對這部分如果類型目前真的有越來越普遍的話那我們怎麼防範這個類型的詐騙那那確實就是我應該提醒的可能不是只是目前的求職詐騙不只是針對勞工求職的勞工甚至會針對針對雇主所以但 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8283.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8308.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我們自己也清楚說如果能夠做相關的後續的面試等等其實都有助於其實可以去做這部分的篩選不過相關的機制我們能不能夠更協助更多的僱主他去避免跟預防或誤踩這部分的地雷我想我們也可以來跟內政部再做一些討論會請我們發言署跟內政部因為為什麼一般來講我說勞動部都一直提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8309.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8333.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
勞工去求職的時候很多的陷阱結果我們突然發現這個檔案有問題然後想要找104去了解一下這個狀況結果發現104這個平台根本沒有這個機制求助無門所以我說勞動部應該也跟104研議一下因為現在詐騙真的是層出不窮我們一直說要求職可能很多陷阱結果你看現在連 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8334.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8345.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
雇主都有可能掉到陷阱裡面所以這部分也希望勞動部跟我們行政院很多部會針對詐騙有很多的陷阱像這個類似的應該也要提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8347.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8356.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
是那這部分請我們勞動部也來幫我們關心一下尤其這104這個它是不是有這個機制也要讓民眾歡迎發現這問題應該要有一個投訴專線或者跟他們講說這個應該是有問題他們104應該要去注意不能讓這個詐騙的一直在104上應聘連這個僱主都有可能會受騙是好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8373.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8379.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
謝謝圖委員 謝謝部長我們現在休息六分鐘那我們11點30分左右我們處理臨時提案有兩件 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8820.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8826.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我發現未婚是不錯好我們繼續開會我們請劉建國召回質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8835.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8861.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好 謝謝主席 謝謝有請部長今天照理安排這個營造友善職場與環境若是照顧不離職的政策規劃這非常重要非常好了然後我要進入這個主題之前本席有一個數據要請部長看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8863.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8879.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
從這個數據大致上可以看出每年的畢業生畢業之後沒有立即進入職場的狀況從108年以前大約沒有在這個表格上但是108年以前大約平均是落在12%左右但從109年、110年一直到111年就從14%、15%一直到112年的18% |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8887.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8897.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這個是畢業生?對下面這個數據我講的是未投保率但是你看到了去年從112年的18%一直到113年馬上跳升到將近快到33%幾乎是80%的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8911.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8920.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
也就是說當年度的畢業生未投保率竟然從12年的18%跳到113年的33%部長有掌握到這個訊息嗎?謝謝委員提供這個資訊今年的畢業季會不會再成長?未投保率未投保率代表什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8933.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8958.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
報告委員就是這個數據的這個32%未投保率這個是畢業生他在半年內還沒有這個投保的一個比例那他在歷年的情況是其實都是差異不大的那不過因為這個半年呢是因為畢業生他可能是會準備在升學或者是進修那在畢業後一年那他其實投保率就是有達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8960.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8974.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
7成75%那這個其實是歷年是差不多的所以你的掌握現在回答我是如此就對了是不是就是你的掌握是這樣就是說你們是看一年的你們不是要看半年的是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8976.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8997.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我們在歷年這個還是你要跟我講說我現在提供給部長給你看的這個數據109到113就是這五年嘛對不對好那你下面說前面差不多但是109到127死救輕不是差不多了109是14到112就變成18是增加了4%到113你看增加了將近快80%以上了 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8999.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9020.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我們回去確認一下我們其實這個相關的數據跟這個數據統計的這個每一個去那個應用的狀況我們跟來跟在跟留言這邊把我們去我們確認的數據來跟留言這邊來再做一些討論好部長所以我剛剛第一句話問說部長這個有沒有掌握嘛對不對那第二個這樣的數據凸顯什麼樣的問題的存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9023.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9032.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那剛剛他回答我是說前面是差不多很平均但一年過後一年過後的數據就不是如此嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9034.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9055.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
你到底有沒有掌握嗎你要回答我這個問題然後這個數據代表什麼意思嗎劉仁我自己確實第一次看到這個數據我是第一次看到這個數據不過如果這個數據有劉仁目前要提醒的這個趨勢的話那這確實是需要注意的這個狀況所以我剛才也請同仁我們再把這個數據的統計的 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9058.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9076.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
的代表性跟統計的各種應用的狀況我們會再做一輪釐清如果有像現在委員想提醒的這個狀況的話這當然我們我想我們當然是必須注意也要有所因應對 我是想說未投保率在這一個對照確認度它是提高了將近80幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9079.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9100.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
位投保率當年度的畢業生的位投保率差一年既然高達提高了八十幾%這代表什麼意義啊主席要回答我這個問題啊你要掌握相關的數據要用一年的對照表我都沒有意見但是請部長要答覆我我的問題很簡單嘛位投保率當年度的畢業生節節上升 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9105.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9129.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
然後今年對照,對不起,2013年對照2012年增加到這是2013年對照2012,2014年還沒有嘛,對不對?今年畢業生已經即將來臨你們預估又是幾%?我第二個問題第一個問題,部長要回去再釐清,再去掌握,我沒有意見那第二個,為投保率代表什麼意義?那第三個,那今年度你們的掌握是怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9131.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9143.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這個未投保當然可能有很多的不同的原因,但是當然他如果沒有投保的話,其實代表可能他是不是他就業上面會比較不順利,或者是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9145.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9163.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
可能各種的原因就他除非生血或其實可能有很多不同的原因我知道啊 總是有主因的比例嘛對不對有主因跟次因嘛那你們過去累積這麼多年來的這樣的一個調查評估掌握主因是什麼嘛 啊次因是什麼嘛簡單簡單講一下好不好報告委員因為那個如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9167.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9191.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
要再分次序的話大概我們可以再進一步研究那他其實 什麼你們叫做進一步研究 你們幫幫忙就是再進一步做一個分析比較那因為其實 為什麼到現在才要再做一次的分析他的原因就會包含說升學那或者是進修或者是出國這些是都有可能的那照排序上的話我們就是會再依照委員的再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9192.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9200.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
做這個排序的一個瞭解不好意思啦今天如果不是飆升這麼多我想這個問題也不會突顯出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9201.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9230.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那今天竟然飆升這麼多你應該知道非常清楚知道是什麼原因嘛而且這是113年對照112年我現在請部長來預防114年會不會再如此的飆升發生我知道我也想提醒的事情這數據裡面是不是透露著因為就這篇媒體報導上面其實當然他是在暗示說是不是有很多我們的青年畢業以後其實是不想工作的是想要躺平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9232.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9253.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那大家是不是就業的意願降低很多其實他是在提示會不會有這個問題所以我說我們必須從這個數據的在更詳細的調查裡面去看一下數據的釐清的狀況但是我想關於青年就業的意願的狀況其實我們這幾年來看的話其實青年整體的失業率並沒有比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9255.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9280.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我們如果從青年的失業率來看的話這幾年青年失業率並沒有比較高所以在這個指標來說的話跟那個報導想要提示的事情看起來又不太一樣的地方部長你不用用報導來跟我講如果你要用報導來跟我講那今天就更糟糕了我提供這張數據你還沒辦法打復活你旁邊那一位也沒辦法打復活主要原因那你也不應該只有講說我們的畢業生畢業之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9283.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9307.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
只是不想工作 只是想談評 絕對不是只有這些因素嘛我們的職場有不友善 你剛才是這麼答我 你小心喔真的喔 我們的職場有不友善 難道不是主要的研究嗎我們的薪資到底符不符合現在畢業生他們的期待還是他們還在等待 這個是不是你們主要調查去做的相關的面向的一個研究嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9308.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9321.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
很掌握我們等一下我再說明我剛才說講到躺平這兩個字是因為當時的是這篇報導上面他的標題上面用了這兩個字所以你不應該用報導來答覆因為我的問題並沒有去提到這樣嘛應該是這麼講嘛我剛才的說明裡面我是說到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9326.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9340.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這一個數據裡面是不是有比方說青年的就業意願降低那就意願降低可能就有很多的原因存在那職場有不友善當然這裡面會是其中之一的 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9341.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9368.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
七年的就業不高在他畢業之後你們要去抓半年、一年、兩年相關的數據希望提供給委員做參考但是應該我現在在循詢的時候應該是可以馬上打我如果你們沒有馬上打我是很奇怪一件事情我們是有數據的為什麼不打我那第二個七年的就業一直不高但是市場一直在缺工是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9370.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9373.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那這兩兆的衝突兩兆的矛盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9374.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9390.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
到底發生什麼事情所以今天要虛說年輕人他可能不願工作他可能怎麼樣那要不要來回歸來討論今天張偉排的主題我們的職場友善嗎我簡單用一個例子啦齁因為時間的關係啦齁你看這個月十四號桃園市舉行清潔隊隊員的徵選徵選啦齁徵選對不起435個職缺那一共開出一共有4143人來報名 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9403.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9417.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
錄取率才12%這麼辛苦的清潔隊員的工作還是這麼多人去擠啊去排嘛因為最主要他一個月最高可以看到上看4萬5這是什麼情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9422.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9437.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我給部長當一個思考嘛組計總書在11日的時候公佈喔也是這個事情而已喔要看報導我們大家用報導來討論這事情嘛114年4月的時候全體受雇員工的薪資每年經常限的薪資平均是47807嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9439.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9460.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
又是4萬多對不對那經常限的這個薪資綜藝數是38000多顯示多數的薪資能低於這個平均嘛這也是一個不爭的事實嘛對不對好如果再對照你們勞動部公布的全台各縣市薪資排行榜齁各位發現全國有9個縣市薪資水平是連綜藝數都沒有連38000都沒有的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9462.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9483.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
所以勞動部每年都有在調整這個最低工資但這隨著這個最低工資的上漲啦更有個業兼常性的工資也應該有相對的提升才對嘛所以我說這個整個國家的職場這個環境可能他就會越來越糟嘛畢業生要馬上投入職場的意願他可能就會大大降低嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9485.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9506.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我要表達是這樣但是這個畢業生未托保率怎麼會在113年對照12年的時候從18%熊熊變成32%那前面可能一年多了1% 2%大致如此那你要用一年的數據來跟我講我可以接受但你要馬上提供出來你如果沒有馬上提供出來我又覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9507.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9532.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
你們這樣掌握都是有問題的嘛然後最主要原因為什麼沒有辦法馬上進入到職場絕對不是只有什麼要再進修啦要出國絕對不是不只這些原因嘛主因到底是什麼嘛是不是我們的職場不夠友善是不是我們薪資還一直維持沒有辦法超越過這個主計處公告的平均薪資的中位數以上嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9533.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9544.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我先把我們其實現在手邊關於大專畢業生半年後為統計的基礎為投保率的數據我提供了大概從109年到113年基本上大概都是在31%30%32%大概在 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9549.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9568.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
30%到32%之間的區間但這是以半年為統計的基礎這是我們手上有的數據是這樣所以確實跟剛剛的那個數據之間好像看起來是有些落差所以我們去釐清那個落差的來源好像有一些落差這個落差不是好像是落差太大了是實際上落差是太大了過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9570.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9593.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
108年我剛剛有講表格沒有做出來因為我是做五年的表格嘛是平均都在12%嘛那確實它每年有逐漸在上升嘛對不對但是很奇怪1.2到1.3熊熊變成就是從18起來32左右嘛不是 我的問題最後一個問題最簡單嘛我就請教一下你今年的掌握怎麼樣今年的掌握一樣是32是35是變成40 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9597.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9610.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
還是你可以回到12年的18因為你們有做相關的配套相關的積極的政策引導讓我們的畢業生可以儘早投入他選擇友善的職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9611.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9638.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那個跟我說明因為確實從比方說如果從青年失業率來看的話青年失業率並沒有顯著的改變但是我提醒部長嘛青年失業率不高但是市場上也一直在缺工嘛對不對因為這幾年來青年的失業率現在是歷年來最低的狀況所以因為青年失業率相對是最低的狀況跟剛剛的這個數據本身其實看起來的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9639.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9651.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
不太一致青年如果近年來現在是失業率最低的狀態我要肯定勞動部嗎現在這個數據我們是確定的我現在提供這個未投保率這個數據是假的嗎所以我等於說我們要看一下統計的方式那個統計是來自於我們對於大專畢業生 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9664.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9687.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
去做的一個就業流向調查那去區分這一群的這個畢業生他在畢業的隨著期間的拉長的一個投保的狀況所以這個的母體跟這個青年的失業率的母體也是兩個是不能這樣等同吃嘛對不對你們是講總total嘛這個是在講大專嘛對不對你要打呼我是這樣嘛那一樣道理啊你回答我這個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9688.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9699.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我問你大專畢業生為什麼投保率節節上升而且是百分之八十的為投保率的增加你要回答我這個問題啊因為你為什麼不掌握啊我問你應該是可以馬上答問我啊不是跟我講說不願意工作啊不是跟我講他們去修 他們去建修啊 他們去出國啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9711.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9738.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
部長這樣好不好 對整體薪資的改善我想勞動部還是有一定程度的責任啦可以 可不可以提供一個具體的一個方案啦一個月內啦 這個其一那其二大專 你講大專 我們就講大專今年度有沒有辦法降低還是一樣維持節節升高現在已經32這個我們來請郵單位來檢討這事情有沒有辦法降低到30%嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9741.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9753.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
你要先了解什麼原因節節上升嘛18變成32你應該有辦法答問我嘛你知道在大中的這一塊領域它為什麼會投保率會從12變成113的時候從18變成32嘛你最起碼有辦法答問我這個問題吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9757.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9766.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
委員我們是不是補充一下剛才會看到數據的差異其實是統計時間點的一個落差那為什麼呢因為這個譬如說以112年他這一群的畢業生到現在這個統計時間為止他其實對他來說已經經歷了畢業兩年的一個時間那所以他的未投保率當然是下降的那如果以113年這個統計時間點來說他的未投保率是高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9786.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9812.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那所以我們其實要比較的應該會是說這個畢業生他同樣在這個畢業半年內他的一個投保率情況這個在歷年的比較是差不多的都是在剛才的30到30百分之30到32之間不是啦你這麼講會很奇怪他對不起回到那個表格主席我不好意思我叫阿伯還有問題我把這題問到旁邊他有母宿啊可工作人口啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9816.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9821.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
這個有問題嗎為投保人數這個有問題嗎他一直要保護我還是平均在30%嗎所以你就要保護我現在提供這樣的一個數據他是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9830.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9835.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
你是不是要這樣子不是 你就針對我的問題答誤就好我的意思是說這個數據比方說是109年的未投保率來說的話它其實會隨著時間這樣我知道啦 我知道它會隨著時間啦做這個表格一定有一個同一個時間嘛我的意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9850.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9866.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
意思是說這個假設109年的這個表格這個的話14.2他會隨著時間降低因為當時間拉長的時候他去就業的機會就越來越多所以當你離這個時間畢業的時間比較近的時候他的未投保率都會比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9867.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9881.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
高那這是為什麼剛剛說如果以半年如果都是用半年畢業後半年來看的話基本上都在30%的上下如果從這個角度來看的話其實他並沒有顯著的高或低這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9883.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9904.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我是覺得你們答覆我的我都聽懂啦我要問的問題你們好像一直聽不懂好 那沒關係那你們就把相關的統計數據怎樣做一個對照提供給委員會來做參考可不可以一個禮拜內我們提供給委員會然後包括我們如果有需要檢討的地方我們也把檢討的措施都提供給委員會好 謝謝主席謝謝各位各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9909.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9915.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
謝謝劉昭偉,謝謝部長繼續我們請廖偉祥委員資訊謝謝主席,請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9934.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9951.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
廖委員好部長好部長部長這個依性別平等工作法的規定那父母在子女未滿三歲前可以各自申請孕留職停薪假最長達兩年嘛那現行的津貼是投保薪資的80% |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9952.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9973.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那但是據媒體報導這個勞動部正在研議修法當雙清都滿了六個月之後可以各增加一個月的津貼那這邊你們是說預計最快是2026年的實施那預計有2.1萬的家庭可以受惠不過我這部分其實是蠻擔憂啊因為就媒體預估今年新生兒人數可能不到12萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9974.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9995.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那這樣的低生育率是不是有這麼多家庭可以受惠我是很質疑但是另外我覺得比較擔心的是這麼岌岌可危的生育率是不是這樣子的措施能夠在今年就實行不要等到明年那因為你們的勞動部甚至的說法叫做最快是明年那這樣緩不濟急啊所以我想要問說那這部分你們預計是什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9997.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10020.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
跟人說因為這部分涉及到救保險法的修法那因為救保法的修法其實需要研議的部分很多可能也不是只有這一條所以我們現在內部也在研擬這個修法的版本那我目前是會在今年底然後來提出救保法修法的草案所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10022.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10039.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
提出這個草案送行政院會是在今年底所以這時間算起來的話這個部長這部分可不可以加速啊因為像我說的這個拖到拖到明年會不會也太久跟跟跟跟我說因為舊保法的修法他牽涉的面向真的比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10040.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10067.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那如果要修法的話也不是只是修這一個條文那這個部分有什麼加速的方案嗎就是說如果只針對這個部分的話因為如果舊保法要修法的話它可能會有幾個面向都要一起放進來那這部分我們也在做相關的研議中那你們的研議我意思是說那如果針對這件事情我剛剛提到這件事情你們有沒有什麼加速的方案除了修這個法的部分之外這個事情如果要做的話就是要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10068.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10090.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那你們預計的進度這個跟委員說明確實因為如果要修法的話因為修法確實涉及到方方面面的考慮包括各方對這事情其實就保要修的部分我想如果委員了解的話就保其實大家提出要修訂的部分其實真的也不只是這個面當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10091.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10117.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那需要做比較細膩的考慮下確實一定會需要一點時間部長那我再進一步講目前這個育嬰假的申請資格是勞工需要至少工作六個月是可以申請但在實務上其實我們也關注到有很多是非典型就業者包含可能有一些什麼契約工、臨時工等等的他皆無法申請那是不是造成有部分的群體被遺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10118.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10127.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
接下來是不是可以規劃將這個資格門檻放寬啊比如說把它降低到13個月或者是採雇主自願參加規範照顧更多這種彈性的勞動人口呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10134.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10160.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
跟我們報告因為這個部分其實暈流亭的部分有一個很重要的是其實勞工在暈流亭期間他其實經濟生活上面政府還是需要照顧他那所以這裡面就會連結到什麼樣的對象可以暈流亭那暈流亭的人其實救保那邊的津貼其實我們就應該支持他的生活這樣子一個因素底下如果他是一個非典型的可能他的救保資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10161.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10179.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
或者是我們的救保財源這都是我們必須要考量的因素是所以我是說這個部分是不是可以也進一步的去研擬是否要放寬這個部分的條件因為以不要漏接這個部分的群體因為你指的是說要來放寬到譬如說本來是六個月嘛是不是要降到三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10183.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10206.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這是不是一個你們可以去思考的方向跟委員報告 舊保是要加保滿一年啦那這個一年不是說這個勞工 這個雇主啦就是所有的舊保的年資要滿一年所以一般對於這個新手爸媽來講這個條件不是 這個主要是配合跟就業就事業給付的條件是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10209.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10229.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
對那這個部分所以您的意思是說因為目前申請是寫說勞工至少需要工作6個月嘛對不對連續啊連續工作6個月那我只是說這個部分有沒有放寬的可能性我覺得我們可能會需要綜合的考慮啊因為確實整個救保的給付他其實他很重要的目的是維持就業上面的安定 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10230.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10254.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
所以他的時間點的設計要怎麼樣設計比較能夠達成大家希望的就是說他救保其實最重要的目的還是希望促成就業上面的安定只是暈流停是他裡面其中一個給付的項目所以我們還是必須回到整個救保基金包括整個救保險其實他的目的去做這個事情的思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10255.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10275.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那這個部分所以我剛剛說我提出這個放寬的方向那你們是不是也可以去演繹一下有沒有可能性以照顧到更多的需要被照顧的勞工們那這部分請部長這邊可以去演繹一下我們都可以再綜合的再做一些考慮跟思考但就像我剛剛說包括像自營作業因為自營作業者他其實並沒有雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10277.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10306.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那這個所以因為他沒有僱主他工作相對比較自由所以他在整個這個這個救保的概念裡面那我覺得我們怎麼樣再去可能要另外再多做一些多做一些思考跟考慮但我了解委員都希望說這個相關的資源能夠讓更多的勞工可以享有可是這確實我們也可能要回到我們包括救保險的政策包括救保基金的政策原本的方向它的設定是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10307.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10324.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那每個政客都有他設定的範圍跟他設定的目標所以在這個方面請部長可以回去思考一下不要漏接這些人或是在這部分這些勞工的形態上面有沒有什麼可以去照顧到他們的方案好不好那下一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10325.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10343.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
根據這個現行的性別工作平等法跟我們勞工請假規則嘛那一般勞工僅有7天的家庭照顧假那也且是併入14天的試駕範疇那這試駕的期間是無薪的所以也導致很多勞工是不敢請假那家庭照顧假形同是虛設 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10344.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10367.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那相較於一些軍公教人員享有有薪的家庭照顧假這個一般勞工的部分是明顯有這個不足的地方所以再來此外現行的育嬰留職停薪雖然有津貼但是請假的彈性不足也許多家長有反應無法因應托嬰中心突發的一些不管是停課啊臨時的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10368.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10395.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以我在這邊是不是也可以建議我們勞動部是不是未來啊積極推動這個家庭照顧假有心化跟彈性化那或是並參考國際經驗喔例如新加坡是有彈性工時與有心照顧假那將這個家庭照顧假的天數也增至14天而且並給予這個薪資的保障喔那這部分是不是可以問我們的部長有沒有意願往這方向來研擬來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10397.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10412.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
那個跟各位說明家照架的彈性化我們這部分我們也有在做研擬的思考那至於現在大家很多在談到說是不是能夠讓家庭照顧下能夠有心那這部分其實會有心的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10413.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10429.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
呃要嘛就是這個薪水是雇主付要嘛就是政府來補貼對政府補貼的部分那可是我也要提醒委員這個貴院修的才化法讓中央政府的財政的域度大幅的降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10430.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10453.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那有薪的加造價其實每多一天其實他需要的財源的其實你的財源的部分除了公務預算還有一些基金啊相關的東西其實我覺得是不用再去扯這個我們的意思就是說有人這不是扯這是在任何的政策可以去思考怎麼推動有人我們去估算如果每一天的加造價算起來他其實他的他需要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10455.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10483.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
有薪的加造價會需要多的這個預算的支應其實量是很大的那你們現在算下來是多少七天的話是900億一天可能都是要上百億啊一天上百億因為因為這個是每一個勞工這是每一個勞工你是用總數是不是就是說假設1100多萬的總數的勞工然後每一天如果是用七天然後七天下去算這樣子是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10484.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10486.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
七天要再乘以七啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10487.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10515.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那所以你的意思是說家庭照顧價因為家照價家照價是每個勞工都會有的剛才講暈流亭你還是針對你有生小孩的的勞工家照價是每天都會有的話所以他賺起來他的金額是真的是非常高那我想要講的事情是任何哪一個基金都很難去所以我剛有特別講到說參考國際經驗那你們是不是也可以去研擬說那國際上面他們怎麼做的那我們可不可以做到或者是我們怎麼樣去整合到我們地方我們的我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10517.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10535.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
政府的這個解方上跟人說明我們當然可以來看一下國際上我們怎麼做但是當現在中央政府的整個財政的狀況被這樣子削弱的時候對於這種可能會增加的大筆的支出我們都只有更加的困難這樣子講 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10539.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10559.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
確定是這樣嗎?你們每這個這個今年的稅計剩餘也是非常的多還有在包含各種的基金那現在沒有說你馬上是全部要補這不能用稅計剩餘來想因為每年的稅計剩餘並不是固定的部長我跟你講現在沒有要吵這另外一件事我們可不可以針對這件事情就事論事就針對這件事情我說你們應該要去參考國際上的經驗然後再回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10565.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10581.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
務實的去算說我們怎麼達成這件事情我當然願意來看國際的經驗怎麼來做但是當中央政府的財政賬被大幅削弱的時候對於這樣新的支出而且它是固定的這不能用稅率剩餘來想因為稅率剩餘可能今年是比較高來部長我剛剛的問題有叫你馬上實施嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10583.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10609.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我剛剛問題不是說你們要往這邊去研擬的方向我們怎麼達成這件事情又或者說一種就是我們剛剛就講了兩件事一種是你要不要提升家庭照顧假或者是往有心的這個家庭照顧假的方向去研擬這部長我這部分我要提醒的事情就像你說如果要政府您要去解決百姓的需求和百姓的聲音那你也說了現在社會上普遍有這個聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10610.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10617.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那這部分是不是應該由你們去思考說到底怎麼做到或者是做不做得到這應該都是所謂的研擬的方向我們當然願意研擬但我們也很希望立法院可以對於中央政府的財政狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10627.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10642.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
可以給你支持這才有辦法讓行政部去做大家期望的事情絕對支持弱勢的福利這部分我們從來沒有支持過但是現在在財化法下中央政府的財政的域度被大幅的降低中央現在你要去大幅的增加像這樣子政府的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10644.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10669.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這都會增加非常非常多的困難因為你不能夠一句話就這樣子打死喔這不是一句話我只是告訴你說往這邊去研擬這樣的方向對不對 部長我只是說你們可不可以去了解一下人家國際經驗怎麼做那我就問你到底人家怎麼做人家花了多少錢委員我們當然你如果黨農沒有辦法回答的情況之下你就用這個東西來搪塞我覺得是絕對不是責任的喔一個政策要能夠落實一個政策要能夠打死所以我剛剛沒有當方面面的支持包括財政上面的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10672.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10696.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
今天立法院一直削弱中央政府的財政的狀況卻又要中央政府做更多的事情你不覺得這是衝突的嗎不衝突 原因為什麼我要告訴你的事情是第一個我剛剛是說你是不是要去借鏡你們要去了解說國際上面他們怎麼做這件事我們當然可以那我就問你嘛但是其他國家的中央政府財政有被削弱嗎那我問你其他國家的中央政府跟地方政府的比例是多少你也不能這樣比嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10699.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10724.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
人家有像我們這樣嗎過去中央政府比例占到75%以上你這樣子講你這樣去比較合理的嗎我只是要提醒我們願意做更多的事情所以希望立法院對我們的財政狀況有更多的支持立法院絕對支持對於勞工的福利但是之前就是被削弱啦什麼叫削弱 這已經講過了地方政府跟中央政府的比例這已經講到不用再講了中央政府就是在這個國家你說財政狀況被削弱別人的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10727.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10756.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那我想請問你過去的比例怎麼算過去其他的中央政府跟地方政府的財政收支的比例我們是不是比其他國家地方政府更加的少所以這部分我想喔不要用這個來談論我只想要告訴我們需要做更多的事就需要在財政上有更多的支持就希望財政能力更加的健全這部分是不是有可行性以及7天增加14天是一個方向另外一個是有心化的部分有沒有可能做到參考國外的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10758.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10778.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我們都願意來看國外的經驗也願意來思考跟參考但是這個事情要教政府做越多的事情的話更需要更多財政上面的支持這部分要麻煩立法院請問你們去年五月推動的育嬰留庭的事辦計畫到去年底告一個段落根據你們勞動部自己的統計事辦的單位是大概89家 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10779.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10796.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那累計24家的事業單位182人申請申請天數是以三天為多那部長請問你這樣的成效覺得是好嗎推廣是普及到有普及嗎之前在雲流亭的事辦的狀況其實成果當然有精進的空間我們必須承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10796.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10822.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
是啊那你們現在打算怎麼進進因為之前是用三到五日所以我們當然是現在希望能夠再更縮短能夠申請的這個日數那之前也是透過企業的自願性就是說你有自願意願的才進到這個事辦的pool裡面那我們的確現在是希望說我們能夠把配套做好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10824.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10846.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
希望能夠做到更普及其實這個報導中也有說很多家長是反應無法因應托嬰中心突然停課等的臨時的狀況所以整體比例不應該這麼低啊那但是另外我去年其實也有質詢過小孩在剛上幼兒園托兒所之後因為他環境的變化差異所以有時候家長會比較有臨時請假的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10848.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10867.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
是不是要把這種短期的彈性育嬰假也適用對象是不是也可以擴大到六歲比較符合家長的實際需求因為包含上了幼兒園現在常常有什麼腸病毒啊或等等的臨時的感冒的狀況突發狀況比較多我們是不是應該要研擬去變到六歲擴大到六歲因為確實現在因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10872.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10879.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
就像剛才說的我們現在是朝向是用育嬰留庭的彈性化的方式的確現在育嬰留庭目前是在三歲以內 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10881.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10902.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
對 所以這個有沒有考慮要把它擴大到六歲我們目前的確是在研擬目前是先以運營留庭來做彈性化的做法我們這個階段可能是希望能夠先做像朝向這個方向先來做調整跟優化你說朝向把它擴大到六歲嗎不是 我說現在目前確實運營留庭就是比較是現在三歲以內 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10903.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10914.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
所以你的意思是說你沒有要考慮擴大到六歲我覺得那可能會是下一個階段之後再來考慮我們會在這個階段也讓企業有一個能夠去適應這部分的一個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10915.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10944.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
當然但是部長我覺得這部分你們可能要去盡早的研擬因為我剛說到6歲上幼兒園的情況會蠻多的其實這個家長他會他要應付的突發狀況可能是更多的所以這部分可以請部長往這方向去思考然後也去溝通看0到6歲是不是有這個需求而且是不是家長真的很需要到6歲的這個這個Range好不好那另外就是因為這部分其實也有看到我們勞動部的新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10945.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10950.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
所以無論什麼方式做調整但是總之就是不會涉及修法所以是代表這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10951.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10977.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
因為你們是想說不會涉及修法那這部分你們怎麼說就是因為剛你說你可以考慮到六歲可是你們新聞稿又說不會考慮修法因為我們在這個階段我們會先來進行就不修法的狀況下面能做的部分我們先來做一輪的彈性化的處理那我想要告訴部長其實照顧工作是很沉重但這個我想母親父母親的身份不要成為職場身份的緊箍咒謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10995.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10997.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
請蘇清泉委員謝謝主席然後請部長第一張第一張史萊姆史萊姆好保定都要正幹齁掰掰來這個這一張齁是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11027.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11049.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
媽媽的看法跟企業的看法好現在育嬰留庭你們是半年是不是我要問清楚一下應該是說育嬰留庭可以兩年但是有薪資補助的是半年有薪資補助是半年六個月那你現在是六要加一個月所以是七個月就是要六加七的話要修九寶法 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11051.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11074.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
要修法那現在是媽媽可以請6個月再來爸爸再請6個月都可以請6個月那就12個月是不是就是各自都有6個月的有薪的這個有薪孕留庭的權利好就是現在是6加6就對了啦那6加6加1加1這兩個是要修法是不是對 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11075.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11100.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那現在是補助投保薪資的80%舊保是補助六成那另外兩成是公務預算所以六成加兩成加起來是八成所以他是拿到投保薪資的八成那另外兩成呢基本上我們現在是八成就給他補滿就好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11102.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11108.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
講到這個我們又要講到預算的問題沒有啦現在真的是小孩子太少了啦那又有一個20%這個20%由企業來補你認為怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11125.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11140.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
換企業靠腰其實你也是經營企業我們員工非常多但是生產的不多現在真的很少我是覺得企業如果有的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11141.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11168.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
補那兩成應該還可以啦如果比較比較財務比較OK的真的我是覺得那在醫療界事實上說育嬰六個月或者所以如果是單單媽媽六個月讓他延長到一年那個六個月是沒有薪水的被留子停薪了那是很糟糕的所以現在爸爸來請也請六個月那這個錢是哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11171.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11196.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
單說六成是來自舊保基金然後兩成的部分是來自公務預算舊保基金,所以是勞保基金,勞保基金你會嗎?你會請嗎?不是舊安定基金啦,是舊保所以這樣一年的支出差不多多少?現在剩那麼少?去年大概107億啊107億 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11199.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11205.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
這做6加6的 爸爸媽媽都申請這樣差不多一年這樣子一年就是107不多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11211.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11229.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
所以你們應該用公務預算再補兩層或者是補三層然後企業老闆補一層這樣讓他主惡我是覺得真的是這樣那個我們其實在110年的時候當時其實就是那時候是六層那希望能夠再增加就公務預算補兩層可是確實現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11233.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11246.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我還是必須跟文坦承在目前所以這地方政府沒有出錢?地方政府沒有出啦全部都是中央出我沒怪你在靠夭啦好 下一張這個是育嬰設備的補乳室是兩萬塊然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11257.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11263.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
受僱者居家市抽菸這個是60萬新建的是300萬最高500萬嘛你剛剛有講嘛齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11269.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11289.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這個是企業如果有設拖曳的設備或者建築你補助最多是500萬是不是?是,就是新設的新設的,所以今年有一家、兩家500萬實在太少了,講坦白話現在的建築成本太高,現在什麼都各樣上 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11291.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11304.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
應該說不一定是新蓋一個建築但是可能是用企業裡面的空間然後把它再去設定再去整理出一個所以這個我具體建議的就是說不要打死收入百萬應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11306.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11321.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
裡面去平和,有的是自己有建築物了,只是裡面裝修嘛那另外有的是新蓋,像我們就打算新蓋,但是要蓋幾千萬,我們才要錢啊你補著五百萬,你也想補著一兩千萬,我們才蓋下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11324.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11347.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
所以上限比我高你的時報時銷因為現在的建築準備實在太高太高我們現在已經從300萬拉高到500萬了可以一千兩千這樣這是什麼錢這是救保那這個侮辱是兩萬塊也太少了所以這個都要增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11349.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11377.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我們可以來看一下哪些部分有增加的空間可是這個但是我還是要跟委員提醒因為其實長期以來因為救保基金他其實主要是在處理的問題其實是關於就業跟失業上面的議題那其實很多勞工朋友包括很多的工會勞工團體其實也一直在提醒其實處理就業失業的問題才是原本就救保基金他一開始成立的時候他的最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11378.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11387.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
的設定的目的還有那個育嬰是6加6我也覺得不太夠應該差不多要到18個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11391.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11420.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我不是在開普拉普,我是在說真的因為我們自己我自己有四個小孩,這樣過來很辛苦這樣讓我兒子生一孫,那個更辛苦我們非常願意跟所有人一起合作我們在醫療界,看我們先來推動那醫療的,像譬如說護理師他育嬰他育嬰假回來你說會遭遇什麼問題,我們是沒有什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11421.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11441.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
但是它自己本身有時候是健保本身的電腦軟體一直在更新所以回來有時候會要踏足了會跟不上的感覺是有這個問題所以我們像我們在鄉下在屏東 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11443.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11446.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
小孩子要下課如果當安親班是OK的如果沒有的話我們很多都中間請 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11453.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11457.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
所以說回來沒有工作什麼職場我也覺得沒有這個問題然後再來就是說什麼女性的薪水比男性低我也沒有這種感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11475.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11499.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
只要你在獅子輩你是婦理獅你知道就是你的價碼就你是藥師那價碼更高啦所以沒有婚男女那是在行政職方面可能會有點差啦行政職啦就目前現在數據上看起來確實男女性質上面還是有差異我們必須承認這件事情那這也是我想也是勞動部必須努力的目標好那下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11504.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11532.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這個是男性比例啦現在有在增加是好事啦那屏東的話我們男性生哺乳價是17%增加到20%這也是都是好事情那希望能夠更更有效啦那你剛剛講的這個一個月譬如說小孩子發燒啦什麼的幼兒園突然間說說要不然孩子吵吵鬧鬧有人發燒啊傳病毒啊那個是用市價的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11535.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11557.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
呃現在其實很多對很多老公來說他可能必須用試駕或者用自己的特休來因應所以這也是為什麼他可能這種臨時性家庭照顧假或者是家庭照顧假試駕或家庭照顧假有一個月的試駕是14天7天啊7天沒有薪水的啊7天但是7天是算在14天的試駕裡面的對試駕哦試駕啊試駕也沒薪水啊對試駕也沒薪水那你們補啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11564.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11591.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
所以我們為什麼我們現在也才從這個育嬰留庭的範圍裡面去思考怎麼樣去幫助這些生小孩的勞工家庭去解決這個問題我們為什麼才從這裡面去思考的原因就是這樣因為他在如果從育嬰留庭去想的話他裡面本身就救保其實可以有六成的補助那再加兩成的這個公務預算的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11592.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11603.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
他比較不用再要再去畫一個非常大的財源來去補貼因為現在在整體的財政上面其實都有其實是挑戰是很大的好下一張最後一張了 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11607.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11618.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這個是我們事業單位申請補助的嘛齁我跟部長講一個那個現在澳洲啊 澳洲他們生育後育嬰階段是多久你知道嗎三年三年是國家補助的所以三年後再生一個 又三年再三年 又生一個這樣十年 齁澳洲現在就這樣所以我 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11636.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11660.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
他們是這樣幹的,所以我們這邊是一直往上啦比不完啦,所以我的建議啦因為這個錢都是中央出的錢地方政府沒有,地方政府在說的是在說什麼?公民都沒錢啊,他也是老人啊,孩子都沒錢,他們在說的是連高雄市也在挨,台南市也在挨,是在挨什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11665.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11683.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
你說地方政府來地方政府說他們要補助啊他們的錢被扣了27%嘛 對不對那是跟這個是重疊的嗎我想這個應該不是不是這個部分我們的補助是來自酒保好查清楚 好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11716.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11720.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
好 那我們先處理臨時提案 馬上處理兩案 來 第一件第一案 考量在快速道路與國道工作環境操作緩衝車時往往遭遇車輛噪音甚大或是高度可能面臨車輛濺起砂石噴進眼睛徒增作業者本身與車輛駕駛發生重大傷亡車禍等可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11744.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11768.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
特决议劳动部应恰商交通部限期于三个月内定定缓冲车使用安全管理指引并落实规范主被动式对缓冲车操作人员之人身防护标准事后并向立法院社会福利及卫生环境委员会提交书面报告提案人委员陈金辉苏清泉陈昭芝第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11768.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11776.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
目前已有官方提出之勞動檢察員專業能力及工作支持提升方案並規劃改善原此特決議勞檢員不論是勞動條件檢察員或職業安全衛生檢察員 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11784.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11806.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
接應平等享有官方積極於加級提升和獎金給予等工作支持措施並請勞動部限期於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告提案人委員陳金輝、蘇清泉、陳昭芝宣讀完畢好行政大會沒有意見沒有意見好 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11814.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11839.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
好 解釋一下好 針對於案由一的部分我們會跟交通部這邊來進行研擬有關於緩衝車的使用安全指引我們也會在三個月內提交書面報告到我們大委員會那案由二的部分我們現在目前已經有有關檢查員的專案能力跟公共支持方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11840.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11847.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那有關於這個方案裡面委員希望是擴增到這個勞動條件檢查員的部分我們會一併納入考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11850.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11875.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這個緩衝車我還是一個建議啦因為我每天都在來來回回在快速路、在高速公路看到緩衝車洪隆的機會這麼大所以那個緩衝車一定要再拉就是說裡面的設施要更適合就是說可潰爛式的裡面要裝水箱、裝火壺都沒意見但是就是說讓我們的車隆了之後那個車開車的人忙到最終 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11877.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11890.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
因為攤位沒意思啊而且那個速度都蠻快的我看緩衝車被撞的我常常看到所以這個你要跟公務單位說這個緩衝車的設計要快速 要高速一點這樣是保護駕駛人那第一案 第二案都沒有意見那我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11906.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11908.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
臨時提案全部處理完畢接下來我們請臨時委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11930.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11947.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
好謝謝主席喔我再要說一下這個我們的警員在國道上面配備有緩衝車標配是我要求的是我提案的以前都沒有好那個這個跟今天無關那我們是不是還是請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11954.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11970.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
部長營造友善的職場育兒環境要落實照顧不離職的政策那我現在要問你第一個問題你知道現在什麼都漲的時代只有剩下人力和社畜的薪水最便宜都不太漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11971.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11985.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
但生養小孩啊 我要問你第一個問題連教育基金都是年年增加你知道養一個小孩大概要多少的教育基金嗎教育基金就好了那如果你不知道的話 你知道嗎我可能有人會抓高一點 有人抓低一點吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11997.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12022.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
你講這個不是空話嗎我現在顯然你不知道教育局要準備多少那你這樣養一個小孩要多少錢嗎這有高一點的跟低一點的部長你就說你不知道就好了你為什麼要這樣子胡扯呢都跟你講剛剛講空話有人就不是胡扯啊就是有些人有些小孩有些人高一點有些人低一點你叫阿嬤或狗來講也會講 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12024.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12031.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我現在跟你講喔 那你要大概一個概念嘛 你不能讓人家說你吃飯卡中 寶釘兩枚 四個孩子要開多少錢 都不知道所以我們 我也是很訝異 因為我個人覺得沒花這麼多但是呢 還是有人講喔 那如果有一個民間的保存人壽他們去做2024年的教育金準備大調查 因為準備嘛 可能從 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12049.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12061.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
幼兒園一路準備到他要出國留學如果到家了出國留學我肯定不是這個數字啊你知道如果要準備小孩出國留學一年要多少錢嗎到美國留學一年要花多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12063.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12080.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
到英國要多少錢可能兩三百以上兩三百以上那不可能不夠一年不夠那我們就不講出國留學就是說從小的幼兒園到大學畢業那他們的調查顯示每位子女的教育準備金在2023年是459萬那2024年增加了22萬要481萬而且有30% |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12093.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12109.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
8%的受訪者認為需要準備到500萬元以上如果你要留學一年還要再增加400萬元一年啦至少啦到美國400萬跑不掉除非他拿公費補助除非他留學的時候說我 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12110.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12116.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
我要去打工這樣子所以我們今天要討論一個營造友善職場育兒環境之前我們希望我們的政府要了解為什麼現在的年輕人不想婚婚了以後不想生因為生一個小孩光是教育成本要為他準備的就要這麼多在這種狀況裡面我們希望說照顧不離職 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12139.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12141.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
不能離職,可是如果你沒有足夠的配套給他支持的話,事實上他就只能選擇不生 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12159.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12187.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
不生啊所以我們來講營造友善職場的育兒環境前提是他願意生他生了以後我們需要這個國家來介入所以為什麼現在女性啊她絕對不會想說我沒有獨立的經濟經濟考量是影響生育決策的很重要的一個因素那我在這裡也跟你講其實經濟負擔最大的還是房子房貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12188.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12214.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
所以請你回去行政院跟他們講願意婚生的婦女願意婚生的年輕夫妻要打造一條龍式的然後打五折的社會住宅社會住宅裡面就有幼兒園就有托嬰中心然後甚至還有老人家長輩的安置的日照 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12216.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12234.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
這樣子一條龍才能夠真正的鼓勵人家來婚生所以這我要打造一個讓家長安心生養的環境很重要那我們知道職業不中斷呢除了我剛剛講最務實的一條龍式的打五折的社會住宅以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12235.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12256.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
當然是勞動環境勞動條件而我們檢視一個政府做的好不好啊很簡單大家講拿出來講兩個指標一個是出生率一個指標就是勞參率勞動參與率出生率出生率部長你知道現在出生率是怎麼一回事啊現在出生率是很低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12261.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12273.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
每況愈下每況愈下我說過 古年流年龍年生的小孩應該會多有史以來專呆玩的狼 專呆玩的狼從來長眼睛沒見過龍年出生的小孩比氣骨厚頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12283.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12297.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
比他們還要低這是一個非常大的警訊那我要講說啊那如果不講出生率啦你檢視你友善又育兒政策的另外一個指標就是勞參率 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12299.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12320.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那根據112年勞動部的性別勞動統計表分析男女勞動的參與率的差距這10年裡面他本來差距了16.28%現在下降到15.23%顯然看起來好像女性的勞參率多了1% |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12322.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12333.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
看起來好像有進步那等一下再來講可是我們還有一個看有配偶或同居的男性勞參率有65.12相對的有配偶或同居的女性勞參率 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12335.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12351.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
女郎還是49.34差了15.78個百分點那如果再講單離婚的分居的上偶的變成單親的這個單身的男性勞參率51.96然後女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12354.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12368.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
上偶的離婚的分居的女性的勞參率30.18%遠遠男生高出了21.78%這個到底是怎麼一回事啊部長你覺得呢目前現在看起來確實單身的男性的勞參率遠遠高於女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12379.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12399.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
比一般平均的男女的勞參率還要更高目前看到確實女性的勞參率在20歲以前其實相對是維持著很不錯的可是30歲以後就會快速的蠻快速的降低我不是問你這個問題我是問你離婚分居和上偶老實說因為我想不懂因為這是你們統計數字嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12400.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12427.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
如果這些你們的統計數字那顯然是有意義的為什麼離婚分居尚偶的性別的勞參率勞參率的這個性別的差異會擴大為什麼你們這個統計的人你們自己要出來給我們解說啊但我要問你啦如果我們去思考說從這裡面的男女性的勞參率的數字這裡面有子女的人有沒有差異有沒有差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12434.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12453.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
不然你們做這個統計是在做什麼心臟的你們的統計單位做這間統計的人你們在做什麼異議的意思是什麼你們自己在做你們不知道甘委員你是問句嗎對我在問你們啊你們的心理的勞動統計分析報告的啊蛤 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12456.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12482.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
你們自己做統計分析你們不知道你們做這個變數的意義是什麼因為你剛才講的好幾個數據我要講離婚分居上我們現在確實是看到我覺得很明顯的事情是女性的勞參率低於男性一個很大的原因是因為他必須要從自己的職場給離開去做家庭的照顧不管是顧小或顧老 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12483.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12512.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
都會涵蓋在這裡面所以這也是這個我們大家都知道啦但是我要跟你講我剛剛講2002到2020抱歉102年到112年看起來女性勞參率好像上升對不對可是不要忘囉不要忘囉102年到112年女性勞參率上升的同時女性的生育率是下降的小孩的出生人口數是下降的這有沒有意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12514.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12516.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
不要看得好像你們勞參與增加很開心很開心不生小孩啦所以這是什麼意思這是說所有的女性有工作在職場的女性還是必須在工作跟生小孩之間做抉擇啊只能擇一啊如果你要工作可能你就會選擇不生小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12542.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12545.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
這一趴顯示的有這個現象啊那為什麼這樣子所以在這裡大家都在講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12564.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12569.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
104銀行也有講 因為剛才林月琴委員有諮詢29歲以下他的職業來中斷 職場的瓶頸是什麼29歲以下就跟人家說要生小孩 會中斷嗎30到39歲當中有58%是白天上班 晚上顧家 疲於奔命 影響工作表現或身心俱疲還有一個也是生小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12590.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12613.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
40到49歲將近六成也是白天上班晚上顧家疲於奔命影響工作表現或俱疲到50歲以上67%就是職業中斷以後想重返職場因年紀大或專業過時而無法銜接所以這個裡面其實大家顯示出來都很累很累大家不分年紀就是很累很累很累 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12615.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12632.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
無論顧小或顧老 其實就是要這樣子 就是這樣子那我們現在在講說 玩意心的 玩意心的 讓他們友善一點 國家做一點什麼國家做一點什麼 我舉一個例子 你知道為什麼需要彈性輕職價嗎 我再問你第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12635.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12643.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
你知道台北市去年的托嬰中心因為腸病毒而停課的天數是幾天嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12645.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12667.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
大概20天出頭我告訴你平均公立的托嬰中心19.9天私立的托嬰中心平均一年停課18.9天那我要舉喔台北市有幾大行政區域松山區公立的平均一年停課天數 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12669.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12695.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
28天28天私立平均一年停課天數在南港區也是28天28天你知道一個腸病毒就這麼多天那你知道六都其他五都的平均多少天嗎就我看到的數據是比台北市低一些新北市平均一年停課11天高雄公立 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12696.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12709.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
新北市統計數字比較粗糙啦但高雄公立的平均一年停課天數25天私立的一年平均停課天數22天請問你 請問你 保定我們要去哪每一個勞工 女性勞工年輕父母要去哪 28天 25天 22天啊我們要請什麼假 請特休特休是什麼 特休是讓這個勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12726.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12736.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
幾年來身心俱肥讓他能休息一下現在大家特殊都不是拿來自己充電再出發的大家特殊都拿來照顧孩子因為不要講這個空中的大便有新家庭照顧這麼不可能那一年就爆了那不可能的啦所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12750.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12763.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
不但如此 政府沒有配套然後沒有作為就算了 現在還落井下石雪上加霜你知道要做什麼嗎政府的政策跨部會之間都不協調為什麼不協調 你知道嗎利益良善缺乏配套加重家長的負擔變成不敢生今年4月我們衛福部修正了 預告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12776.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12790.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
托嬰中心定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項新增加了一款如果兒童健康不佳時托嬰中心有權要求家長配合接回照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12792.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12804.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
這個修正方向其實是好的 我覺得是好的自己小孩生病趕快自己接回去照顧這也是基於公共衛生防疫需求 利益良善啦但是我問你 只藏病毒的28天20天啊小孩健康不佳 我這有經驗了小孩剛從保姆到幼兒園的時候 一個月整天都在生病 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12818.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12826.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
健康不佳托嬰中心就有權利要求家長接回去自己照顧我要去寫假出來保證我問你沒有配套然後你要保護孩子沒有錯這些家長要去哪裡長出那個假要去哪裡長出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12839.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12864.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以就算透過應徵性的停課規定放寬了每年的停課日數有可能下降到平均只有十多天但是因為你們定型化契約這樣子一改下去所以大家家長都要很緊繃的本來是大家都覺得說願意升了結果法律上沒有配套就說你就要坐等 家長都要坐等這大家就不要死啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12867.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12896.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
雪上加霜你們在有生育意願的這個年輕父母身上雪上加霜啊讓他們情何以堪啊所以我剛剛講說特休假本來是為了工作及生活平衡結果因為生了孩子以後特休假不要忘了年輕父母的特休假天數最少因為之前嘛結果特休假全部要用來照顧小孩情何以堪啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12901.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12920.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
所以這部分我們為什麼正在研議這個雲流亭希望能夠更多更時間更短的可以讓大家可以請休的原因就是希望要去補足這部分你講的很有道理啊我們的法案躺在那裡已經躺兩三年了躺好幾年了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12921.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12931.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
但是呢 我問你 你的現憑工作平等法你的就業保險法 你的修法你說就是要 那請問你什麼時候要拿出來修什麼時候要排審查 張偉什麼時候要排審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12937.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12940.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
對啊 我沒有增加天數 沒有讓雇主多付錢欸我把育嬰留庭的那幾天育嬰留庭增加一個月啦那我們再把這一個月從0到3歲給他放到0到8歲或是0到12歲然後呢 請假的方法 不同說限制1個月1年1個月到2年你都通通給他鬆綁掉 彈性化了 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12964.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12986.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
沒有增加天數欸沒有增加這個錢欸在這種狀況你都沒有辦法做然後你說你就是靠這個配套要來幫家長解決問題可是你口惠實不至連法案都沒有拿出來審我們已經提案多久了都沒有提出來審我上一屆就提大家上一屆都提了提到這一屆還繼續提好 現在叫我時間到了我現在要說國家做了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12993.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13016.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
國家做了什麼 沒有所以年輕世代這個年輕世代我告訴大家沒有人會為了生兒育女而放棄工作沒有人如果這個要育兒而且不要放棄工作的話只能很辛苦很辛苦的在那裡撐著大家都想要繼續工作大家都想要繼續賺錢養家大家都覺得經濟很困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13022.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13048.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
這個是事實所以在這種狀況裡面女人要照顧小的然後到40歲左右又要照顧老的在這種狀況裡面在身心俱疲而你能做的政策面你能端出來的有限啦阿就跟你講台性親職假這種最簡單的你今天說一件事都說你自己你的法案沒有排審 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13050.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13075.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
法案都沒有排審欸提案提多久了什麼時候要拿出來審什麼時候要通過這才是真正的真正的落實你的口會沒有實質啊對不對保定我講這個沒道理那個有根文說我們前面階段我們會先從在可以不修法的範圍內我們會先做那 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13077.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13087.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
以日請休或者是這幾相關的談心話目前可以做我覺得我們會再先第一段先來這部分我們會來還是往這個方向如果我們要修法你支不支持問得就簡單咧我們的價沒有增加天數我們的錢沒有增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13097.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13107.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
當然是雇主的行政成本 它是增加的就是這樣子 如果錢跟天數都沒有增加了這樣子你們都沒有辦法協調我告訴你國安危機內 去年13萬 今年22萬阿拉美礦獄下你留步先倒 全國大家一起倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13119.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13144.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
事情很嚴重的到現在我們還不願意正視這個國家沒有人要生孩子這個國家國家的政策端不出友善育兒的制度來誰願意生啊我再告訴你我再說一遍年輕人沒有人會放棄工作因為我們都必須工作才有飯吃沒有人要放棄工作只能放棄不生小孩啦只能放棄生小孩啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13149.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13150.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
這件事很嚴重,到現在你們還拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚拚 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13173.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13182.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我找出來 我馬上來排謝謝林淑雯委員那接續我們請黃振旭委員執行花便當喔 肚子餓著趕快吃飯好 謝謝主席 謝謝蘇昭偉我們還是請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13208.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13231.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
部長好 聽了剛剛很多很多的意見我想部長也知道大家的期待是在哪裡我就用兩個議題來跟部長來討論第一個就是有關於有心彈性育嬰架演繹規劃的進度第二部分呢 是不是能夠考慮來提高及擴大育嬰留庭給父的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13231.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13252.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那剛剛趙委還有其他委員希望能不能夠把這個目前規劃中的八成這樣的替代能夠補好補滿那當然很多的議題也需要透過這樣的方式來討論的同時也希望也知道這個方向可以往那邊走 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13253.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13266.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
那其實過去我也很多次跟部長討論過有關於這個有性彈性照顧假的研議的規劃進度今天我們看到部長的書面報告還有剛剛早上的口頭報告裡面有提到這個試辦過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13269.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13292.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
去年的事辦有89家的事業單位來參加看到勞工的部分方面以申請三天的占最多申請大多以保母臨時有事、腸病毒的停託課、小孩子需要陪伴以及員工想要自行照顧新生兒占為主要的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13293.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13313.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那有一些是沒有提出這個申請那不提出申請的人大部分是以家庭照顧價或用其他的價別來替代而不是用我們所規劃中的這個可能的價值那雇主方面呢其中其末焦點座談會當中他們表示未來的制度如果要放寬彈性的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13314.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13341.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
他們擔心的是影響人力的調配跟公司的營運這個就是我們看到書面的報告那其實我們也知道在這個過程需要有更好的研議的這個可能性包括時間還有更多的面向我們很期待從這個四個地方來麻煩部長能不能也讓我們知道彈性照護架 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13342.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13368.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
是不是還是希望部長之前提到的是以日為單位有一些是希望用週或者是幾個小時那這樣的彈性的照護假是有薪呢還是部分的薪資或者是維持現在是無薪的那如果是有薪部分薪資那是雇主來負擔呢還是透過社會保險的機制還是用政府的公務預算來補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13370.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13384.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
那企業的排班很多企業尤其是小型的這些微型企業他們排班的配套措施未來會是如何的規劃部長請就幾個方面來幫忙說明一下根本說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13385.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13400.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
因為現在因為大家也在講說關於家庭照顧家的部分可是家庭照顧家目前是是沒有薪資的那如果家庭照顧家要有薪的話那這裡面就會下面的問題是要由雇主來負擔還是要由政府來負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13401.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13416.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那當然如果要從雇主來負擔的話那這部分可能會遇到的的整體的在產業上面的阻力會比較大那如果是從政府來負擔的話確實以現在整體現在政府尤其是財化法修訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13417.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13437.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
修正以後的財政的狀況要來負擔這部分確實是會非常辛苦因為幾乎是每個勞工都有這個家庭照顧價所以假設以千萬的勞工來計算大家都有家庭照顧價權利的話那這個請領下去每一天的家庭照顧價我們算起來可能會是超過百億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13438.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13451.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
好那如果是7天的話那就要再乘以7所以這也是為什麼我們比較現在比較是從暈流亭的角度來去切入希望從這部分來去做來去著手 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13452.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13471.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
讓他可以更加的彈性那因為因為劉庭他的目前他的給付那六成部分會是來自於舊保的基金在這邊比較是可以來去處理這個問題不過剛剛林委員其實非常期待也很要求我們也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13473.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13498.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
雙薪的家庭雙就業的情形之下如果沒有這樣好的一個彈性照護的假期來使用的話相對來講就真的很難讓我們那個少子化能夠至少這部分能夠有效的來改善這個其實林委員剛剛也非常非常的希望部長這邊能夠多用心更用心的把這個部分處理的更有效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13500.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13516.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
我還是想跟文說明因為其實在整體的制度上面要去做到這個變革他其實要去處理的挑戰跟關卡是真的是蠻多的包括在執行面 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13516.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13541.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
那也包括是在財務的部分在人力的部分其實他需要涉及到的部分真的是很這也是為什麼過去其實這個議題其實談很久那你當然希望能夠更進一步的去突破這件事情是好對那我還是要說這不是用不用心的問題了解了解可是我們還是希望有策略當然除了用心以外還是需要有一個策略來推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13542.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13546.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那我們就往下來看一下 提高跟擴大育嬰留庭給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給給 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13571.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13599.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
平均月投資的這個保障的這個薪資的替代率就可以達到八成那剛才我一直希望能夠把它補好補滿那當然這個會牽扯到你提到想相關的一些費用還有如何來編好這個預算不過我們如果從另外一個方向來看的話其實目前我們所看到的這個即使最高的這個替代率的八成是透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13601.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13627.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我們目前的45800乘以八成這樣的薪資來做一個給付的一個他的這個所有的費用那到目前為止我們從這個就業保險的人數來看的話超過這個費用45800這個上限的佔了41%意思就是說這樣的需求似乎我們需要能夠針對這個級距來做一些調控 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13629.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13633.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
那依照這個新勞退的薪資的統計的話超過這個45800是占了33.4%那平均的這些提繳的這個工資已經達到46000 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13646.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13662.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
928元也都比這個45800高那我們再看下一個數據可以看到就是如果以這個可能在生育的年齡當中如果是25歲到40歲的話那男性的這些平均落差這個45800以上的其實是超過1萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13667.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13695.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
30歲以上的話也會更明顯一些那可是女性到44歲多沒有辦法達到這樣的費用那表示說未來如果我們要鼓勵性平能夠同時來照顧這個新生兒的話未來在男性跟女性當中還是會有落差因為男性的薪資相對就比較高一些那如果從這個另外一個角度來看這個就業保險目前有 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13696.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13721.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
將近自願投保者就是自僱自營自僱的這些人數佔了將近5%那這些人其實是無法在這個過程裡面去領用到這樣的這個替代的這種八成的這個機會所以對於某一些的自僱自營的人他是無法受這個非受僱者就沒有辦法領到這筆費用所以造成的問題其實是蠻多元的 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13721.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13745.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
所以如果我們用現在那個就業保險給付的這個制度來看的話事實上是真的會有出現下一個一些問題就是就保來綁這個勞保那當然就擔心如果我們把這個剛剛講的45800的上限提升以後可能就會導致這個勞保財務的負擔會突然大量的這種提高之下就沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13746.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13765.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
把這個45800的這個上限打開那45800的上限沒有辦法打開的話以我在這個醫院所看到的我們的住院醫師為例我們住院醫師如果是女性住院醫師或是男性住院醫師平均的一些薪資目前在私立的醫院差不多是10萬到12萬元的薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13767.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13788.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那如果是公立的醫院 他可能是在六萬多 將近七萬到九萬之間當他去生孩子的時候 如果他因為要生孩子以後他想要請假的話 那他的能夠抖到八成的這個替代率那八成的替代率最高性是四五八零零 其實才三萬多 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13789.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13803.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
所以如果他有一個孩子當他選擇我到底要來持續就業呢還是說我要來照顧孩子當然這個落差就非常非常的大所以如果我們不去調這個45800對於這些相對 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13807.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13833.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
高薪的這個勞動朋友來講或者是在這個勞基法裡面處理的部分就會受到蠻大的影響那剛剛我們這個所看到的這個百分比其實已經有41%是超過這個45800這樣的上去的這個級距所以我們會看到相當多的問題那第二個就是就業保險如果有失業給付當初的這個需求是為了政策上來不要讓這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13835.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13855.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
太多的人是故意來領這個失業金這是有他的需求可是如果我們持續這樣綁定的話呢其實是有在政策上是有一些問題的那另外如果因為劉婷的津貼會和這個托寶薪資急劇綁定的很太實的話剛剛所提到誘因其實是受影響的 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13856.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13880.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
那另外就是有關身份上這些會變成一定要有受雇者才能請領的話那剛左提到的那些自營者事實上也會被受到影響他是無法來請領這些費用所以我們想要跟部長再繼續討論的就是我們有沒有辦法來提高跟擴大育嬰留庭的幾乎的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13881.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13906.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
就是包括這些就是老保跟舊保的脫鉤來打開這個舊保新增的上限就是我們其實好幾次都有跟部長討論過這個問題另外就是育嬰留庭的津貼不綁舊保的話就是用六成的這個舊保的部分是不是能夠跟其他的兩成一樣都改為公務補助這樣就可以打開這方面的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13907.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13926.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
當然直接墊高衛福部未滿兩歲的育兒津貼也是另外一種方式其實最重要我們期待的就是成立新的這個薪職照護保險或基金來處理就是把現在在勞工朋友所受到的限制呢有沒有將來用不同的方式來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13927.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13940.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
那當然這個是需要到行政院的層級一起來共同跨部會來討論所以將來部長在跟這個行政院那邊討論的時候因為今年剛好又是我國少子化對策計畫在114年 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13943.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13967.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
今年這個計畫就會結束了所以就會啟動下一波有關於少子化的對策我是不是可以透過這樣的方式能夠讓整體的這些跨部會的想法也麻煩部長能夠主動的來把這些想法能夠提供給行政院來做參考那各位請部長針對這樣的想法能不能夠提供意見給我們做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13969.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13997.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
跟委員報告就是委員提到我們的舊保的投保薪資上限45800的這個部分那主要是我們舊保他是一個社會保險那他目的是在保障我們這個被保險人在失業或者是在育嬰留子停薪期間的基本生活的經濟安全所以我們投保薪資有所謂的上限跟下限那目前我們領育嬰留子停薪津貼的平均投保薪資大概是在三萬六千塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13998.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14016.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
所以它是可以涵蓋大部分運營流停的人那所以另外就是我們也用兩層來加強它的經濟補助嘛那另外就是委員提到說有沒有辦法脫鉤的部分那就會保險它的保險給付很多包括事業給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14017.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14037.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
那投保薪資上限如果打開的話那拉高了以後就會連帶的把失業給戶的合戶的金額因為他是六成嘛也會提高所以對於勞工在重返職場的意願的可能性會不會受到影響的這個可能性我們也必須要來考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14038.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14063.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
所以這一些就是要再考量到說因為它是放在社會保險放在就業保險裡面的一個限制所以沒有辦法單從雲林流停津貼這個部分來看那另外就是委員有提到說能不能增加救保的投保身份讓自營作業者也進來的這個部分那當然現在救保的投保的對象現在是受僱勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14065.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14082.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
主要是要來保障這些勞工遭遇非失業離職的時候他的經濟生活安全那我們是考量到自營作業者他因為工作比較自主他的失業的原因比較難以認定而且在育嬰留庭的這個部分他是要跟雇主請假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14083.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14109.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
他沒有雇主所以也沒有辦法去請育嬰留庭假沒有辦法符合我們性供法的規定所以在有關育嬰留庭津貼的這部分即使他就算納進來他也沒有辦法來請那以上是當然我聽您這樣說明了解就是有這些限制那我們也很期待就是說如果知道問題是所在我們如何去解套 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14112.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14132.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
其實現在我們就是希望能夠去解套啦吼那但的確比方說談到說比方像雲柳亭今天如果不綁舊保開公務上面補助的部分這當然就會有公務預算裁員上面的的議題現在公務預算在裁員上面其實都是相對是是非常辛苦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14133.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14158.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
那對所以就是說這個薪資頭髮上限要打開他他最多的考慮點就是關於我們這整個在勞保財務上面的思考是所以才希望上一次才希望說能不能試算去推估造成的影響其實我們我們有試算了就是是會有更大的壓力的影響是 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14159.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14180.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
好那最後當然如果將來有機會到行政院討論的時候希望也把這些需求再往上提報好謝謝王正熙醫師他的健保投保是用20萬的18萬多的然後他的勞保是用45,800欸差太多了對不對好謝謝王委員那繼續我們請羅廷惠委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14195.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14219.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
好 謝謝主席 有請部長好 部長好部長 之前您為受命擔任我們勞動部部長首要的任務是推動照顧不離職如何讓勞工不用為了照顧家庭而被迫選擇離職身為最年輕的勞動部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14221.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14248.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我認為你一定了解年輕家庭的需求在今年4月初我想部長也接受中央社的一個專訪那你有說育嬰留庭要更彈性好用以育為單位的請假並不容易沒有你們還沒有放棄近日將提方案及配套請問部長育嬰留庭要更彈性好用彈性指的是什麼部分有沒有規劃方向為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14249.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14265.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
就是最早因為流停基本上它是要六個月那在110年的時候當時其實把它限縮到最短其實它可以一個月那我們認為這個最短的時間還可以再縮短日數可以再縮短那有沒有計畫要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14266.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14282.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
有沒有計畫要修法我們現在會先以這個不用修法的範圍裡面來做到以日為單位希望大概何時會推出我們現在其實正在跟行政院爭取相關配套的資源都會希望儘快 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14283.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14304.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
好有兩個問題先請教部長第一產檢價從2021年7月1日開始產檢的項目已經從10次改為14次配合產檢的次數增加所以產檢價由原本的5天改成7天請問一下其他國家對於產檢價有何規定你有沒有研究過這個我可以提 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14309.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14326.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
我想這樣子喔 從過去10次的產檢 產檢價變5到現在14次的產檢 產檢價變7勞動部的思維我希望說能夠再去研究一下喔因為我個人認為現階段的產檢真的只需要半天就可以了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14327.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14349.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
可能嗎 部長你覺得現在的產檢因為這部分當然我們可以再跟衛福部討論因為這個產檢的到底要多少時間的需求這主要其實是衛福部來跟我們當然當然 但現在我要講的是食物面現在每一個媽媽去做產檢的時候絕大多數你認為她會請半天還請一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14355.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14372.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
其實多數有可能這種狀況我都聽過因為一種對啦沒有一定的數據啦但是我們認為他如果請半天真的是非常的匆忙那現階段很多的職場女性仍需要用上班日來完成產檢這無庸置疑吧部長您覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14374.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14390.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
應該是說就產檢架的需求到底到多大我想其實因為我自己不是這方面的專業了那這個部分我們也很願意跟衛福部來做討論看他們有沒有覺得需要再再延長或者是在時間調整上的需求這當然我們我們會跟我們也跟衛福部來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14391.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14407.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
我是覺得說如果還要做羊毛穿刺啊那如果家裡又是偏鄉偏遠或甚至是山區甚至不是在市中心他還要去到市中心的醫院做產檢我個人認為這樣子的一個所謂的半天根本是不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14408.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14431.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那14次的產檢 產檢假7天的設計明顯不足以支應現在的產檢需求那至於孕婦要動用到市價特休甚至是影響到職場的權益跟健康所以我認為產檢假應該要以完整的一天來思考14次的產檢應該要以14天的產檢假部長 你可以認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14436.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14464.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
我想委員在談的這個精神我們是了解的順便想跟你來聊一下這個賠產價那對不起因為我要聊賠產價之前我剛剛還特別搜尋一下就是Google洪森翰然後突然就跳出空格老婆然後也想一下說你有沒有另外一半那因為我自己本身就是我太太生三個啦那所以我們對這個賠產我也想跟你分享就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14466.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14490.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
產檢不可能就他一個人去嘛 一定要有人賠產對不對 信免平等工作法實行細則第七條除賠產檢 配偶所謂在這個過程當中請假外 受僱者賠產之請假其因與配偶分免之當日及前後合計15日的期間內為之 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14492.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14502.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
陪產家有使用時間的一個限制就是我剛剛說的分免的當日期前後合計15日請問部長為什麼要有15日的限制你不覺得不太合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14507.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14528.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
各位報告基本上這個部分是我們當時設計的時候一個女性如果分娩的時候假設他是用剖腹的他其實最常要待在醫院7天那我們認為說這一個假的需求是基本上是希望這個勞工可以陪伴他另外一半這個從分娩然後出院照顧新生兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14531.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14551.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那合理的期間因為我們不是要增加這個勞工其他的假所以希望在他最需要的時候然後合理性他的請假的這個室友所以依照實務上面來看一個女性分娩如果最常需要在醫院待7天所以前後15日是我們當時這個設計的本意 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14554.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14574.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
好那我也是想用剖腹的部分來做一個案例那不謀而合但是我還是認為就是說在這個剖腹的過程醫院休養的這個部分現行制度我只有7日的陪產假剛剛你有說到然後我就要回職場我覺得這不利於產婦的休養跟新生兒的一個照顧還有初期的忙亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14575.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14595.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
所以7日難以充分協助產婦恢復與新生兒的照護對家庭的實際支持我認為是有限的那所以部長我希望說這個分娩之當日及其前後合計15日天數能不能再拉長您可以評估看看嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14596.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14624.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
我想我們這部分我們可以來依照實際的需求但實際的需求我覺得我們可以再來做一些思考不過這部分我想我們會來跟衛福部來做討論可以討論吧我先提出這問題我先跟委員說明這部分其實當然都會是來自於比方說這個生育政策上面或者是生育的需求那哪些部分會需要我們在整體的工時的制度上面或休假的制度上面來去做因應跟配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14624.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14643.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
我們還是這部分還是會跟衛福部當然我們都希望越來越寬鬆了但你也有提到實務面實務面到底不符不符合需求這我也尊重但我希望你可以再調查一下那目前我們有看到這樣的一個需求我們都願意來再做檢視一下這方面的需要那如果可以拉長的話賠產假期日你認為可不可以再拉長 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14645.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14669.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
那個我現在都不是只是單純說我認為可不可以可以或不可以我覺得沒關係我沒有要你承諾我們都要在我們都會朝向這個方向我們都會再做一些評估好不好那你願不願意朝這個方向評估可以吧我沒有要你承諾這個部分我們也要考慮裁人因為現在這個五天五天是由雇主付那兩天是由政府來補 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14671.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14690.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
好那當然這個相關的補助的金額當然這個如果要拉長的話這補助的金額會要提高那我認為我們可能方方面面這個財源上考慮也要考慮進來好那我過去也蠻關心這個早產和照護的一個問題那您過去也關心這個輕職假 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14693.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14720.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
是那根據國民健康署出生統計的年報顯示台灣出生率逐年下降但是早產兒的比例不降反升去年5月31我有召開一場早產兒計友善輕職政策的一個公聽會當時會議結論早產兒的視網膜病變治療藥物納入健保已經在今年2月執行母乳的補充照物今年5月1日納入補助但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14721.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14747.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
對於醫療照護假這個部分目前還在努力雖然對早產兒家庭而言有育嬰留職停薪有家庭照顧假有所謂的特休可以運用但對於這些早產兒的家庭我認為還是不夠要再給予更多的一些支持因為畢竟早產兒對於這個早療的次數早療的時段路程甚至有可能要跨縣市因為有些早療要跨縣市去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14749.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14753.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
這些問題我認為現在的天數均有所不足忽略早產兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14754.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14776.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
特殊這樣子的一個狀況實際的需求對於整個早產兒的家庭而言我認為是工作以及孩子真的是特別特別的兩頭燒所以通常都會照顧到離子要落實現今的專報照顧不離子很難啊不只早產兒罕病家庭也面臨一樣的狀況部長對於這些家長為了照顧早產兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14780.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14803.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
含病兒的一個醫療需求因長期醫療照顧而離開的職場你認為有什麼想法我想包括早產兒或早療其實的需求其實也是我們現在在研議把暈流亭給更彈性可以讓大家有更多的價別可以來請求其中一個原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14804.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14827.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
我還是要再次特別拜託因為我有提出《性別平等工作法》的20條修正那明定受僱者子女未滿6歲有早療、罕病的一個需求可以請醫療照顧假全年以18日為限這假不記錄家庭照顧假的天數是分開的我希望你能夠獲得你的支持那您覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14830.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14844.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
我覺得我們可以綜合來思考跟評估委員的意識跟精神委員的意識跟精神我們了解但你能夠想像就是說別人的家庭突如其來當然有早療的孩子當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14845.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14870.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
有早產的孩子甚至有所謂的寒病的孩子哇那真的是一開始就很忙碌對於新生兒措手不及還有很多要在忙那更何況是寒病更何況是需要早產需要早療的所以我希望說你今天不用答應我但我是希望說提出這樣的需求希望作為一個部長你要再次設身處地去想這件事情如果今天發生在你我 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14871.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14895.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
每個人都可能發生的家庭上我們該怎麼辦我們是不是要有政府更多的支持或者是有其他的方式由勞動部來幫忙想辦法來支持早產兒 罕病家庭在這個運作維持蠟燭兩頭燒工作跟所謂的新生兒的到來這部分我希望你能夠再研議可以嗎我們會再回來思考好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14898.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14901.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
謝謝委員 謝謝部長 接下來我們請李坤城委員發言謝謝 請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14918.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14936.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
來 部長 這個我們現在有鼓勵企業要興建這個托兒設施那也給予相關的補助那我看一下你們第一期你們就是說有這個興建托兒設施的有補助然後如果是這一個設置托兒設施那如果是改善或更新的也有補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14937.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14964.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
那辦理居家室托兒服務或受雇者子女送托兒的服務機構也有補助不過就是前提是雇主要先提供托兒津貼那我看了一下第一期的話大部分有兩家是有爭取到整個設置幼兒園有七家是申請托兒設備設施但是還是最多是有136家是提供托兒津貼的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14966.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14981.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
所以我們這個補助最主要是希望達到什麼樣的目的我想其實還是希望職場能夠友善育兒所以這裡面有好幾種做法但是的確新建比方新建拓而設施這對企業來說他可能要找到 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14982.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15003.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
這個相對應的空間企業才比較有可能吧土地對就是說他其實他自己要去找到這空間所以他的門檻會比較高所以因為這樣所以我們才設定了這四五個其實他都可以來去提升這個育兒的友善程度的做法那的確現在比較多的還是是這個托兒津貼的部分比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15003.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15017.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
那這個托兒津貼是說 雇主他有先提供我們勞工朋友還有這個托兒津貼那我們在補助嗎 還是怎麼樣是目前是這樣子是那補助相對補助比例是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15019.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15029.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
比例的部分大概是在就是他如果提供這個勞工大概一萬塊那可能會是三千塊到四千塊這樣這個比如說一萬塊我們補貼三千到四千就對了那應該是給這個勞工吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15034.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15056.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
因為這是雇主付給勞工了嘛所以我們是鼓勵雇主所以是補助雇主來做這件事情所以是補助 雇主就對了不是補貼給我們的這個勞工朋友雇主已經他願意他來做這件事情我們可以托於補助就是說他如果他那個補助一萬那我們再補貼他三四千塊就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15058.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15082.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
是那個勞工的部分的話其實他另外走的包括我們衛福部有一些育兒津貼的那個部分所以我們這個就是鼓勵雇主就對了那我請問一下像這個就是我們企業的這個友善職場這個有沒有列入這個ESG的這個考核啊比如說這個社會責任這部分有列入ESG的考核嗎友善職場的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15083.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15106.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
社會責任的部分的話有關我們有跟經管會做一些建議那另外的話在我們本部有辦理一個工作生活平衡的這個相關的獎項還有包括勞動力發展署也有一些相關的獎項我們會列入這邊的獎項的平和我是認為說這個有很多是大企業啦那當然有很多算是歸公司我認為是可以列入ESG的考核啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15107.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15125.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
這部分我們來跟金管會討論對啊來跟金管會討論一下我想這部分我們可以來討論如果他願意就是我們把提供我們這個這個友善的這個職場的確應該值得鼓勵嘛好不好那老問題了啦上次也問過這個部長就是有關這個家庭照顧假還有這個營業留庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15129.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15152.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
這個上次大概是半個月問的嘛那不曉得這半個月來因為有一些是不用透過修法就可以來做處理的家庭照顧假也可以啊然後這個暈流停也可以那目前有沒有比較一個完整的一個措施因為你上次我本來想說下一個會期你們能夠提出來你還說你可以提早我不曉得這個時間可不可以再提早 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15153.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15180.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
或是一個確確的日期我們現在還是希望在下個會期前我們可以把這個方案來跟大家說明那大概方向啦比如說像上次我問的就是說那個家庭照顧家希望用小時用這個小時來請然後呢這個運營流程呢那我們希望說用日這個來請那大概方向是不是是朝這個方向來做我們基本上都是這樣不管是照我家照價 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15180.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15192.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
或者是運流停能夠更彈性可以請的申請的時間可以更短我們都是朝這個方向在進行但是現在的重點是配套規劃的嚴厲因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15196.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15215.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
我必須跟您坦白說因為台灣的中小企業多所以當今天正合的這些休假的制度其實常常對於大的企業來說問題比較不大比方說如果對於那些中小微的企業它如果是30人以下10人以下的時候它在人力上面的調度真的會比較辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15216.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15244.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
所以我們其實也是必須要為這件事情的配套爭取一些資源然後怎麼樣來協助這個企業能夠來因應就是說如果今天我們都這個這個彈性其實基本上是勞工需要彈性因為過去我們在想要彈性其實常常是有企業他為了排班或生產的彈性這部分是勞工需要彈性我們現在希望企業更大來包容勞工需要的職場彈性的時候我們政府可以怎麼樣來支持企業現在我們在處理的是這一段 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15244.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15254.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
的配套的工作那這有涉及到修法嗎我們是希望現在是在不修法狀況下面就可以來進行OK好那我知道謝謝謝謝部長謝謝請張雅琳委員謝謝主席我們邀請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15277.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15295.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
我想今天就是來跟部長一樣來討論有關於女性的這個職場的這個勞動參與率那我先用幾個數字來跟部長來聊聊我們現在面對到一個狀況就是根據行政院主計處的2019年的已婚婦女中因為結婚而離職的人大概佔了21% |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15297.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15315.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
那生育離職的呢大概是22.7%其中有60%曾經復職那他們離職到復職的間隔大概是4到4.5年這是第一個數字所以我們大概可以了解說他們是會重返職場的但是間距比較長那第二個數字呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15316.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15342.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
是他们有说他们回到职场之后呢根据111人力银行的调查认为说其实是颇为困难46.9%的人认为那其中有38%的人觉得相当吃力那甚至说只有6.8%的人觉得说他是可以顺利回来所以等于是说他们回到职场上他们想要回去可是难度非常的高那这是第一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15343.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15357.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
我們待會會問的就是有關於我們婦女的這個再就業計畫那第二個主題想要來講是說我們的女性的勞參與跟男性來比其實相對來說我們可以看到深色的那條黑色線男性的這個職場參與率呢到50歲以 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15359.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15374.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
錢喔都還是維持在一個將近90%的一個參與率可是我們的女性呢是從29歲以後開始一路往下掉那這件事情我們可以非常清楚的知道生小孩了嘛可能要照顧家庭結婚了嘛這是第一個那再來我們再來看跟亞洲相比我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15375.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15395.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
跟亞洲相比我們除了29歲是一個年紀我們從45歲以後我們是雪崩式下跌而且是遠低於我們的日本新加坡跟韓國所以這個是什麼這是因為他長照的時候可能又進來這是第二個他會面臨到必須要離開職場的問題所以好我們先回來第一個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15397.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15413.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
就在我們現在的這個女性勞動力的參與力的女性的這個婦女在就業的這個方案裡面呢其實我們是有提供了一系列的一些就業措施啦育嬰留庭啦或者是推動企業參與員工子女為什麼按不到下頁好 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15417.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15431.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
好等等我們可是呢我也依據2019年的中高齡婦女的需求研究評估報告他們其實也發現說雖然說他可以回去但是有39.5%的人認為自己的專業度不夠那其實也非常高度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15432.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15454.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
有50%的人認為感到焦慮缺乏信心那同時呢他們也認為說因為他們必須要承擔不管是育兒或長照的責任呢工作彈性不足造成他們必須離職所以這也是其中的第二個原因那再來第三個就是說雖然婦女現在無法下一頁可以幫我按嗎謝謝再上一頁再上一頁再上一頁好 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15457.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15479.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
好那再來就是說我們的雖然有保障彈性工時但是多數的企業實踐不到位而且呢第四點是很多的雇主認為對於育兒女性其實是一律偏高的也造成他們的招聘率偏低所以我們現在雖然有這個三年期的婦女在就業計畫那我們從112年9月1號上路到115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15483.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15506.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
8月31號預計就要結束了那我看了一下我們目標在2026年的8月我們要達到53.5%可是我看了一下2023年我們的女性勞參率才51.82%經過了一年半大概也才到51.9%這個中間增加不到1%可是我們如何在只剩下的一年半要提升到增加將近2%呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15508.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15512.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
這個部分我是蠻質疑的是不是可以請部長來告訴我說我們是有可能達到這個數字嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15521.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15546.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
其實就這個時間點來看當然挑戰是蠻大的那但是我們現在其實我其實也跟法案署其實在討論我們關於我們現在老八署有很多的就業計畫那在他的這個執行率上面會請法案署其實我們再做一輪的檢討甚至一些計畫如果該整病的部分該整病就是希望能夠把 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15547.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15567.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
就計劃他的執行的效能能夠提升這部分我們會盡力來做所以聽起來是說目前我們現在在重新檢討我們過去的再就業計劃我們不只檢討之後修正嗎應該是不只是只有婦女再就業計劃我們其實有蠻多相關的這些就業促進的計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15569.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15591.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
其實我都請發案署我們是用一個總體檢的方式再做一次的重新的整理然後希望能夠把執行的效果跟效率能夠提升之前陳新輝委員其實也質詢過這個部分那這個檢討跟這個總體檢的部分目前也如火如荼正在進行之中那就是希望把效能夠再做一些提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15592.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15611.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
那這個總體檢大概是什麼時候會完成我們那時候是希望三個月的時間所以是預計在何時是不是到時候也可以把這份報告提供當然好不好因為我想因為剛剛其實提到了這個是我們過去發現他們回去職場遇到一些困難所以我認為我們這總體檢應該都要去盤點我們現在所做的一些相關計畫不管是不是婦女在就業計畫都應該去回應這個問題不然這個勞參率永遠都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15615.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15641.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
只能歸步向前啦齁那最終犧牲的還是女性那再來下一個 下一個題目想要繼續來討論就是說我也想要分享一下日本改革的一個政策的重點齁那他們其實也是除了就是擴大了育兒支持與托育服務但是他們有一個我覺得蠻重要的點是在於他們樓性工時以及呢他們提供了日本產後爸爸育休的一個育嬰假下業 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15642.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15671.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
允許男性在產後八週內分兩次請假政府補助薪資100%那我認為這兩件事情是非常重要的因為台灣的現況是配偶分免的時候他只有七天賠產假那七日內領全薪剩下的再由政府補助兩天可是其實坦白說這樣子的一個制度呢就間接的讓男性認為讓雇主認為育兒是女性的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15672.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15691.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
所以我認為說我們是不是可以比照日本的機制讓爸爸也可以參與育兒有更多的休假這個部分是可以來往這個方向我們當然是希望這個方向所以不管是剛才在講到雲流亭的彈性化這也是爸爸也是可以來參與的 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15692.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15708.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
事實上我們也看到當你把這個可以請休的請申請的時間在縮短的時候他可以更彈性的時候這個爸爸他來申請來參與的比率是蠻明顯的顯著的提高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15708.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15730.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
這就是在這也是裡面其中一個很重要的誘因那也包括之前在講到說這個暈流停六個月再加一個月為什麼是希望雙親都要請滿六個月才能夠再加一也是希望不要變成最後都是女性在承擔這個照顧小孩的狀況而是希望兩個雙親之間可以平均分攤以後但是如果因為我們剛講你剛講是談性暈假 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15732.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15753.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
所以現在這個彈性暈價同樣適用在爸爸這個機制那產後 我想先出一點點事情喔就是彈性暈價包含了產價還是是不包含的我們現在你們不包含啦當然不包含啦是分開的嘛當然分開的那這個是一樣的啊就是爸爸的這個產後的預休是不是也可以再更多呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15755.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15775.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
因為你們現在是分開的嘛那這個爸爸你懂我意思嗎我們現在針對於爸爸的部分是針對那個家庭育嬰留庭爸爸就可以用那個育嬰留庭的部分所以爸爸現在你們的規劃裡面就是只有育嬰留庭沒有說是像是那個當然家庭照顧的部分他也是可以請 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15776.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15803.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
OK 好了解那我再回到剛剛講的那個流性工時因為日本的這個流性工時呢其實對他們的幫助非常大如果我們來看到日本部分工時的就業比率就會達到25.6%而且南韓也是16.1%我們現在台灣其實只有3.2%其實是非常低也遠低於OECD的平均16.5%所以我只是在想說因為如果今天談性工時的話就像其實前面很多的委員也都有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15804.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15830.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
因為她可能為了要照顧小孩她照顧很多事情她最後因為沒有辦法fulfill企業的一個需求她就會選擇離開嘛但是如果我們進入更多彈性工時的工作的模式的話這個工作的制度再設計的話那是不是就可以讓這些女性可以更有機會能夠留在職場所以我想要請問一下說我們是不是可以針對部分工時的這件事情再去做一些鬆綁因為我知道現在我們在討論彈性育嬰溜庭的時候其實也是在往這個方向來努力嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15831.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15845.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
跟趙委員說明其實包括日本的所謂的柔性工職其實我們都看到一個狀況它其實跟現在台灣很多勞工的需求其實也是很相近的都是希望能夠給更多勞工需要的彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15847.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15872.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
因為過去談到彈性常常都是指企業想要的彈性 雇主想要的彈性他的這個要彈性他可能針對他的排班可能針對他希望的生產的這個週期去他的彈性所以我們的法規裡面會去做很多部分是要去限縮或者是去管控企業不能夠讓他的彈性太大變成會可能會造成勞工在加班或者是過勞上面的問題過去其實方向是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15873.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15903.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
可是我们陆陆续续看到现在很多的劳工他有劳工期望的弹性劳工期望的弹性跟雇主期望的弹性可能是不太一样的事情所以我们其实也是想要借由这一次的弹性的运营流停在这个部分去尝试因为这个就是明显的一个例子这个是劳工期望的弹性怎么让企业的职场的制度能够包容劳工需要的弹性现在这个命题我们希望先从这个地方开始做未来如果我们开始有些成果企业开始有一些相关的适应 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15903.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15920.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
也開始理解到這事情的重要我們的配套也可以運作的話當然我們當然不會排除把這個勞工所需要的彈性是不是能夠擴及到更多的層面但是這個彈性雖然都是同樣都是用彈性兩個字可是如果仔細去細究你就會發現企業要彈性跟勞工要彈性可能是很不一樣的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15922.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15942.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
對 所以我理解喔但是我就是希望說如果所以我們現在這個你剛剛講說就是跟企業在溝通就是因為運營流停的這件事情我們像彈性這件事情是在往這個方向溝通嗎那我們是不是有個規劃就是說大概可能多久之後我們可以有機會再來跟企業進一步的來討論其實現在就是跟企業這樣我在舉個例子委員這邊有提到像彈性工時的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15943.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15958.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
這過去這個所謂彈性工程制度就是主要都是在規範企業所需的彈性在這個這個標的下所以我說我們把這可能雖然用同樣兩個我們把它分開但我自己也很期待這次如果我們可以往前走這一步的話那 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15959.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15980.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
開始讓企業理解或者是相關的配套讓大家知道勞工所需要的彈性我們可以怎麼樣去支持跟企業要如何包容而且我們也讓企業知道當你越能夠包容的時候其實你在員工的招聘上面你可能是更容易的你更不會面對缺工上面的問題我們也逐步的在跟企業溝通這個概念對我知道我的意思是說我們有沒有規劃一個時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15983.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16001.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
我是希望能夠把這個腳步先踩穩這個腳步踩穩了以後這個概念大家開始也是比較熟悉了以後那我們希望慢慢的就像剛剛瑋瑜講說包括柔性工時因為它的柔性工時可能包括在很多面向上面我們有沒有可能哪些部分再設定一個優先順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16002.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16015.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
我聽我懂意思就是說我們現在基本上就是跟企業談完之後呢我們其實也會盤定一下哪些勞工需要的彈性工時的模式然後開始慢慢的來跟企業來溝通跟討論對不對好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝部長關心婦女在就業計劃楊瓊英委員改書面質詢接著請張其凱委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16043.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16045.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
請部長蔡委員好我們可以說要落實讓爸爸媽媽可以好好照顧小孩而且可以留在職場這樣一個很重要的就是落實家庭照顧家這個制度打造一個友善的育兒環境台灣民眾黨已經提出了相關的這個修法所以請教的人比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16075.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16104.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
現在是腸病毒的高峰期我們臺灣腸病毒大概兩個高峰期一個五六月 第二天就是九月份開學的時候那我最近接到很多爸爸媽媽的這個信陳情我要練一段一位年輕媽媽的來信她的故事啊代表著千千萬萬家庭現在碰到的一個問題她說我只是一位有位小孩的年輕媽媽她現在碰到的問題就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16105.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16116.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
長病毒這個挑戰他說長病毒這個停課標準它是一個政策性的停課可是呢卻要由育兒的家庭的父母自行以家庭照顧假 試假 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16118.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16145.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
未繞假 甚至是各種名目的假來承擔所有假都用上了以後 不夠啊有時候公司還不准假所以你只能犧牲自己的薪水去請假來照顧這一點太不合理了所以說啊應該這個規定要調整希望可以照顧更多的家庭也讓我們更多年輕人願意生養小孩生養小孩不是只有從來不是只有錢的問題是環境的不友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16147.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16173.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
那個柏定 現在家庭照顧假一年你知道幾天嗎 七天而且是不知心的 對不對那公務員這七天是有假的可是他不扣考機的同時他要跟那個試駕也是要合併最多也是只有七天啦那現在好了 他腸病毒現在這個挑戰來了他是一個政策性的這個這個休假柏定你知道嗎 腸病毒來休假要休幾天 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16177.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16195.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
規定 政府規定要休館幾天五天五天 五到七天對 七天就過了 加起來這次就不夠了來看這個統計這是這個統計我們每一年我國偷鷹中心藏病毒這個停課平均要幾年要19天 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16197.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16212.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
特別在六都裡面 你看高雄市的這個公立托嬰中心一年因為腸病毒停課要25天台北市19.9 將近20天桃園17我們現在把所有六都把它平均起來台中市稍微低一點點19天耶哇 差太多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16218.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16239.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
你現在給他的家庭照顧價值7天結果你是政策性要他停課的你只要一個班級一個班級有兩位小朋友在一週裡面有腸病毒就停7天平均下來全台灣喔一年大概19天因為腸病毒放假顯然不過用嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16242.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16267.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
對不對 我們說當家父母 前天下的這個父母碰到這種狀況 價都不夠用了那這個談的是小朋友啦 我們還要照顧家裡很多人還是長輩 對不對所以顯然這個價是不夠的好 那台灣民眾黨已經提出修正案 針對這個問題我們要修正性別平等工作法 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16268.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16282.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
我們的建議是這樣子 我們的條文是明定的本來7天剛才講過 明顯不夠我們把7天增加為14天第二個 家庭照顧假不要記入這個私假 因為私假就沒錢了我們這個去比照這個育嬰留子這個津貼給予這個嬰友的這個津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16293.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16312.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
你贊成這樣一個修法的方向嗎跟委員說明我們其實想要處理的問題是同樣的問題但我們現在想採取的方式是透過運營流停的彈性化如果可以朝更短的時間來請修的話其實他的可以去運用的天數可以比現在的這個方案其實來的更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16313.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16332.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
我看你接受專訪有提到嘛你說如何讓這個休假應應留庭可以更基於彈性嘛對不對這個做法可以比要用彈性彈性照顧假的這個目前的現在14天來的更多你的彈性有辦法達到14比14天多嗎我們是朝這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16334.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16354.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
我們是朝向這個方向我們提出具體的而且育嬰留庭的也是有薪資補助的就是來自舊保跟公預算薪資補助所以他其實也是有薪的那他的天數也可以比14天來得更多所以我們是認為這可能會是一個更能夠來去處理需求的解法 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16355.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16378.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
不定 不定 不管是台灣民眾黨提出的具體的修正案或者是你剛剛講的 這應該對我們的爸爸媽媽們應該都是一個很好的消息啦實際上對小朋友是一個很好的消息那儘快做 不要等到下個會期 儘快對 我們現在是正全力的趕快正正進行而且這個會期現在已經延會了嘛 還儘快一點點來 我們看一下民眾黨 民眾黨怎麼做除了剛剛我們的訴求 至少要14天的有薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16379.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16408.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
家庭照顧假不要跟市價合併那如果是政策性因素的停課的話都要管長病毒這個應該要這個家庭勞動力的這個補償這個措施因為是你政府規定的嘛對不對跟文說明因為現在確實有一些訴求談到有薪的家庭照顧假可是如果家庭照顧假要有薪的話其實每一年可能這個預算上面的支出會超過百億每一天要超過百億如果七天的話還要再乘以七 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16409.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16438.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
這其實對整體的財政的負擔是蠻大的如果是一個如果這個負責任的企業是一個優良的企業他讓他的員工可以留下來然後讓他回家可以好好照顧小孩子這個投資是值得的對 但是就是說這個有薪是是誰要付整個台灣一直往和諧方向走這個薪是誰要付比方說我也想就是說這個薪水是僱主要付還是政府要付公務員這一塊當然就是政府付嘛對不對然後這個企業你剛有提到嘛跟企業都溝通啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16439.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16443.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
事實上有某些企業 我跟你講 我民眾黨就會說我民眾黨目前已經給黨工七天前薪七天的 我先給你聽 大家看看民眾黨怎麼做民眾黨走在前面 我們給黨工七天前薪的家庭照顧假 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16459.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16473.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
從今年開始我們民眾黨對於生理假生理假這個規範已經超越現行規範我們給我們女性的黨工每個月有一天的生理假然後去年開始柯文哲就宣布了民眾黨用於法規我們把這個家庭照顧假 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16475.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16496.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
加碼7天給予14天的親職照顧假他在加碼現行法規的7天是算在私家無薪的我們從去年5月開始這7天都是全薪所以大家可以參考一下台灣民眾黨這個宣布民眾黨現在民進黨跟國民黨應該也可以這個家庭照顧假 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16500.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16525.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
因為我們政策上都不是只規範政黨我們要觸及的範圍是所有的職場甚至我們也不是只是說公務員的職場是所有的職場這個職場裡面有很多是中小企業所以確實現在會有一些委員的主張是有新的家庭照顧假他是要政府出這是一種那如果按照委員這樣講民眾黨的是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16526.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16549.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
企業出這當然也是一個做法那的確這個部分就要來跟企業跟產業來溝通這部分的支出對我們就希望不是只有民眾黨的黨工啦我們就希望全台灣就可以拓展到每個人都享受這個福利所以我們才要提的這個修法嘛然後每個黨都有他的優點啦國民黨民進黨台灣民眾黨各個黨都有他的優點那好的我們就盡量去推動好不好那保定你剛才說的我剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16550.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16570.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
講說這個我們這個法是一個好消息你剛提到你說你的目前想的這個方法比14天還多啊他一樣有津貼啊你要準備怎麼做當然就是從運營留庭的角度來從運營留庭的方向來去可以讓大家來做清零那其實天數應該是可以比14天還更多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16571.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16600.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
這個做好事我們就共同來努力好不好我們共同來推這個修法盡快看到這個部長做的這個對我們的爸爸媽媽跟小朋友照顧謝謝謝謝張七角委員 謝謝部長鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在林德甫 林德甫 林德甫委員改成書面執行何新淳 何新淳 何新淳委員不在陳培宇 陳培宇 陳培宇委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16601.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16603.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
接下來我們請陳穎委員質詢謝主席麻煩請我們那個勞動部紅部長陳委員好部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16659.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16671.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
抱歉 想請教部長我們看一下第一個簡報110年台灣外勞勤領勞保生育給付的3632人111年4900人前年112年是5687人到了去年的113年應該有突破6000人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16690.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16711.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
應該我不知道部長你們那邊有沒有這個統計人數有我們其實113年目前的數字應該是6000人你們也抓6000是不是對差不多那這邊這個數字當中我是有注意到就是說112年比111年多了1268人 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16717.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16742.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
那其實這個增加是比這個111年到112年要等一下就是等一下100有他112年那一年他就是增加的特別多比之前還要多很多你們有注意到是什麼原因嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16748.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16762.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
因為其實移工的人數也一直在增加其實這幾年其實移工的人數增加的也很快可是他後面是減少的啊地檢我只是說那一年就特別多可能是因為疫情 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16764.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16782.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
因為疫情所以大家都跑去生小孩有關邊境管制的時候所以人數有略低那後來的人數比較高應該是回到之前比較高的水準對 但後面又下降啊112年111年到112年又我們112跟113是逐年上升現在從110年之後應該都是逐年上升的 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16792.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16794.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
但我這邊沒有看到下降我是說110年到 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16798.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16825.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
114年到113年就是委員你的數據其實看起來都是上升的都有上升沒錯啦但我是說上升有一年就是多了突然多了1000多人啦那部長說因為疫情的關係也包括可能有移工的人數跟邊境的管制沒關係我想這個只是我在看這個數據的時候發現的一個有趣的一個數字那想知道原因所以你們可能後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16826.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16849.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
整理一下看是研究一下看是怎麼樣明確的原因我想這個是值得研究那也請你們在關心一下就其中未婚的有多少人然後已婚的又有多少這樣子你們現在應該沒有這個數據吧我們可能沒有好可以了解一下他會告訴你很多事的數字會說話好 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16851.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16872.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
那因為這個社福外勞不能參加勞保所以光是這個產業女性外勞14萬人呢每年新生兒人數就超過6000人了那部長我國今年5月份的年初出生率為4.25那請問這個外籍勞工的這個初出生率是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16874.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16889.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
我想我們可能沒有去統計外籍勞工的這個出生率的部分你們沒有統計喔我們目前有的就是關於他的清零生育給付好沒關係我們有幫你們試算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16890.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16906.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
這個看一下簡報的部分因為我國男女比例大概就是1比1所以標準化之後呢這個外籍勞工換算起來他們的出生率為每千人21.43那是我們台灣4.25的5倍看來部長應該沒有掌握這樣的一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16914.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16937.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
這個可能換算不一定能夠這樣直接換算沒有直接換算是因為這個還要這個是有公式的我們是套公式下去換算的好這個是因為這個計算公式這個出生率是年出生人數要除以這個年平均人口數碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16939.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16952.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
所以這個部分你們可以自己去試算一下那我們算出來是大概是這樣那如果你們覺得有什麼問題你們可以找人再算一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16954.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16972.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
那是這樣子在部長接任之初外界有曾經質疑過部長就是說在過去力挺這個外籍勞工的態度當時部長的回答是說身為勞動部挺移工那還有就是說勞工是理所當然的 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16973.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16996.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
那么今天的题目要营造职场友善育儿环境就应该不分彼此也要支持社福外籍劳工能够因为育儿不离职才对所以呢在下一个简报就是说部长支持社福外籍劳工在台湾也能够自由生养小孩吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17000.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17014.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
呃應該是說這個我想想想跟委員說外籍勞工因為其實有很多時候我們這個外籍勞工其實進來台灣以後他其實有些真的是還在就是說二十幾歲二十幾歲三十幾歲是那 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17018.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17042.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
所以他可能真的會有他會生小孩的狀況這可能是他的人權所以我們的角度不是說支持或鼓勵他生小孩而是他如果生小孩的話我們要怎麼來整個整個社會怎麼來去協助這件事情所以鼓勵他生小孩我們我們的態度並不是要去鼓勵他生小孩或這個到底不是這樣可是當 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17044.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17064.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
這個年齡的勞工他如果遇到生小孩的狀況的時候怎麼樣子我們從人道的角度從各種人權的角度我們怎麼樣來去協助不要變成是人道上面的困境我們的角度是這個部長是這樣我想我今天的質詢我並沒有就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17065.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17079.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
沒有什麼惡意是好那我們因為在必須要指出台灣目前我們面臨的一個狀況那就是說其實部長剛剛回的很好就是說你剛剛講說病 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17082.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17101.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
應該我這樣聽起來我應該沒有希望沒有理解錯誤部長應該沒有鼓勵他們我們的政策並不是鼓勵但是部長是講政策沒有鼓勵但我們後續會去檢視實際上我們政策是不是真的確實指鼓勵了 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17102.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17126.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
大家都去生孩子你可能不理解我等一下繼續講你就會知道所以我們基本上不鼓勵但是因為這個剛好是在健康適合生育的年齡所以會遇到這樣的狀況所以我們政府就必須來面臨這些外籍勞工在台灣生產的這個狀況生育的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17128.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17158.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
好那但是我要指出的是說但是他們沒有勞保那不能請領這個生育給付那所以這個部分部長要如何去處理這個攝服外籍勞工的生育問題但是有人講到比方說是講到家庭的看護工現在比較他沒有強制性的勞保那當然我們其實也希望我們也跟部長說如果要幫他保勞這並不是他不可以有勞保 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17163.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17186.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
我們其實現在有相關的安置的中心在處理我聽起來聽沒有很明白你們要協助回答一下嗎有關外籍義工在台生子的部分因為他們有這樣的需求所以我們目前在桃園、彰化跟高雄設有三處義工的婦幼中心等一下那個不是我問的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17188.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17213.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
我只是說對 因為他們不能不能申請這個生育給付因為沒有勞保嘛那產業的可以申請我現在只是點出這個落差啦那所以當然這個落差之後我們接下來他們在這個生育給付的請領就會有不同啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17215.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17239.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
我現在要點出是這樣啦那沒關係我們先繼續就是說那本勞的這個出生率這麼低部長要怎麼看待確實本勞的應該是說整體台灣的出生率都降低那這降低我想從勞動部角度我們當然很願意我們也在研擬相關的政策怎麼樣職場能夠對於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17243.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17270.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
育嬰育兒的勞工能夠更加的友善沒錯好那我們來看一下外籍勞工在台灣懷孕的話可以去北中南區的婦幼關懷中心待產剛剛說的每個月有一萬五千元的安置費用生產後每個月一萬八千元但是我們本國的勞工就沒有這樣子是不是不到底有沒有公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17273.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17283.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
根本說明其實就這個本國的勞工的部分其實我們當然也是有一些社福的資源但這個社福社政的資源可能主要會是來自衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17284.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17298.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
所以並不是說本國的勞工就沒有相關的資源來去因為畢竟那個也是我們的勞工了本國的勞工也是更是我們應該要照顧的對象好沒有關係我們再繼續談就是說不知道你知道台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17303.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17317.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
還有很多的黑戶寶寶有六個關愛之家在照顧那因為是黑戶那他們的父母親是不是也可以享受勞動部營造的友善職場育兒環境來落實照顧不離職的政策規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17322.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17332.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
我想我們整個照顧不理的政策其實當然比較是針對現在主要的規劃但是現在是從本勞的狀況來去做做做做規劃的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17338.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17365.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
那个回答我没有很满意但没关系我们再继续往下那部长知道就是说在某些外籍劳工在台湾非法生子在他们的来源国如果是这样的状况是触犯刑法的那面对这样的问题部长是如何看待外籍劳工在台湾生小孩的问题然后又如何来保障他们的友善职场育儿环境呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17368.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17390.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
跟文說我們基本上現在相關的措施一樣還是剛剛在講的原則我們其實並不是要鼓勵外籍勞工生小孩我們是當如果真的遇到這個狀況的話我們怎麼從人道上面從人權上面可以協助我們的原則還是這個態度那我再請教就是說外籍勞工生養小孩是不是雇主的責任應該不是啦除非這個孩子是雇主的 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17398.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17419.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
那僱主能不能要求禁止外籍勞工生養小孩應該也不行啦那我們可以在勞動契約規範嗎也不可以好那假設因為生養小孩無法提供勞務的時候那僱主能不能要求解雇 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17424.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17444.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
包委員這個移工在國內同樣是用性平法規定那在性平法裡面規定他必須要不能隨意支錢好那那個假設這個他們因為要生養小孩那可以要求可以要求離職是不是就是說他們可以要求離職嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17448.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17475.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
包圍雇主不能單方面去要求離職那如果移工他因為生育無法去履行他的勞動契約還有雇主他沒有辦法這個這個他已經有要求應該要移工要依約來履約但是後來雙方有協議這個履約在上面有困難的話那這個部分經雙方合意可以去終止聘僱關係但是勞動部這邊還是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17477.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17498.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
我的問題是我現在不是說要終止我現在只是說暫停因為中間就是說他可能要待產或育兒他可能就要求要就是需要這個離開一段時間暫停的話是可以的但是暫停跟解雇不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17499.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17523.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
她如果中間一離職因為要立刻離開台灣但是一回國可能又要觸犯法律好算那這個這個要怎麼辦如果她是就法規上面來說她是不能夠因為懷孕而要求她離職或解雇的 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17525.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17533.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
但是如果是 就是說我們回來如果是待產他就沒辦法繼續工作 待產或有一些特殊狀況他要養育一段時間 這段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17537.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17559.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
但因為會有這個人力缺乏的問題因為那是一對一啊 僱主跟這個社福 跟這個我們的家事外勞是一對一這不像那個工廠有很多的勞工一起這個人力資源上會出現問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17560.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17587.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
委員這個可能是透過勞資雙方協議如果說資方願意讓這個勞方在國內待產或者是產後因為我現在點出這些問題假如你們沒有很確定也都沒有關係你就說我們可能這個狀況過去沒有遇到還是我們常遇到我們沒有好好討論那就是說因為他可能面臨就是說好他一離職他就要立刻離開台灣可是一回國又可能又觸犯法律嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17587.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17596.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
所以我們就他可能也不曉得該怎麼辦那會不會就是立刻又逃逸了或者把小孩送到這個關愛之家這樣到底合不合適 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17599.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17626.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
有合適嗎委員其實移工在台灣生產他是可以依照我們相關的規定在國內他是可以生養他的孩子但是很多移工因為考慮到他養育的成本所以他會讓孩子返國或是攜子返國那生產完畢之後再返好沒關係你現在講都是一個很理想的狀態但是我們我們的社會裡存在著很多的迫不得已那所以就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17628.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17645.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
基於我剛點出的這些 這個我們外籍勞工生養小孩的立場所以勞動部秉持著不鼓勵 不支持 不鼓勵 不鼓勵但是我們支持他必須能夠繼續生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17652.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17658.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
因為你們對於生養小孩的立場不然我問你們對於生養小孩立場到底是支持還是不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17659.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17687.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
應該是說其實他有他相關的權利這不是我支持或鼓勵的問題而是他會有他相關的權利這其實涉及到他的人權的狀況所以我們會要讓他的人權跟他的權利會要留有一些空間好謝謝部長因為我們畢竟所有的政策看起來確實都有做到這些而且是非常支持因為畢竟在你們的文宣跟實際行動上其實都是支持的那我想今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17690.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17716.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
結論 部長今天像你們詢問勞動部對於外籍勞工生養小孩的立場其實我是要釐清一個嚴肅的問題就是如果勞動部是支持的話那麼勞動部就要有一個支持的政策那也就是要保障他們在職場的友善工作環境但是友善的環境營造的主體還是要靠雇主來落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17718.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17746.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
那但是呢雇主不見得是能夠支持的我這樣講你們應該很清楚啦那特別是這個社福外籍勞工的雇主因為會影響到影響這個勞務的提供所以這個部分可能就產生衝突需要你們的勞動部明確的態度跟解決還有的方法跟做法所以在未來呢社福的部分社福的這些外籍勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17748.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17777.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
因应这个就是说我们接下来80岁以上的长者可以申请外籍看护那劳动部你们就是推估将近20万的这个外籍看护进来那所以生育率10万也是很多所以生育率也会跟着增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17779.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17784.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
我趕快點出這個問題你們要正視到因此勞動部面對這個問題應該要很嚴肅來看待第一步就是要統計各個外籍勞工族群的實際生育人數並且讓勞保局公開統計這個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17799.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17812.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
那這樣你才能夠估計未來成長的幅度提出一個正確友善的職場的這個政策規劃這一點部長你同意嗎你同意公開這些數據嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17814.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17841.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
我想現在一些數據當然其實在大家外界是都有的就像剛剛這個聲音幾乎的數據你確定都有很容易查尋到嗎我是想跟委員說明我覺得我們怎麼樣在這過程裡面其實多不管是外籍勞工或者是雇主其實在這上面會有一些權益上面的這個要怎麼其實能夠去維護到彼此的一些權益我想我們是可以在這邊我們再多做一些研討 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17843.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17857.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
我想我在这边要强调的就是这个就业服务法的条文到今天都没有一共两个字那只有外国人那另外在52条第三项 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17858.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17873.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
還是有這個外籍勞工警戒指標的用詞那基於本席尊重法令所以剛才呢從一開始有很多的時候我使用了外勞這樣的一個名詞來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17875.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17900.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
那並沒有任何歧視的意思如果你們認為外勞有歧視的意思的話那我們就也請你們就趕快來提案修訂好不好不然我每次在台上我到底要講什麼我講移工可是我們的這個法律用詞又不是這樣那我們又立法委員我們有時候用詞又要精準那我到底要講什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17901.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
17925.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
講了等一下不用移工又被批評用了移工又不專業那到底是什麼東西你們趕快把這個這個名詞做一個法律上的修訂嘛這樣大家就統一比較有個依據啊好我們對我們來其實我們都看到會有人使用啊對外籍勞工或移工都會有人但也都會有人批評啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
17927.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
17949.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
對啊 那個罵就有一點就是到底我們就遵守法規啊就這樣好 謝謝好 謝謝陳以為請教部長如果這個外籍移工生小孩那爸爸也是外籍移工那這個小孩子還可以留在台灣嗎如果是合法的他們兩個公司都有這樣的區域的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
17961.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
17980.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
那如果爸爸是台灣人那就用就領養 領養啦齁好 他們這六千個生下來也算我們的總生產數現在我們台灣吃得還慘真的很慘齁這不算 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
17988.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18012.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
這是黑戶喔?沒有在戶政系統裡面所以他們也沒有勞保沒有生產補助什麼都沒有所以是老闆做回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18017.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18023.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
好,最後一個,楊耀文好,謝謝主席,主席請一下紅部長好,現在請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18047.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18067.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
確實是這樣子,剛剛蘇信全委員在講,因為我家也有外籍的家庭看護工就是說最給來這件事情還真的是外籍看護工,假如在雇主的家裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18069.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18095.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
生育生產生病其實都是雇主的照顧責任都會落在雇主這邊那這個當然這個方向我們是支持的可是對於對於受看護的家庭其實大家都不像蘇英前召委的安泰醫院人力很夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18096.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18118.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
那家庭看護工是這樣子,原本我家裡就需要一個人來照顧,照顧一個老人或者是必須要受照護者。等到家庭看護工也生病,或者是生產的時候,我同時要有兩個人力來補充這個缺口。 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18121.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18147.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
這個很多制度的設計總是沒有辦法應付所有的變化所以我就剛剛聽到很高興趙偉率先講了在醫院裡面他臉醉了來躲一躲這會算是很基於人道精神確實因為他理想背景部長我來 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18149.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18158.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
問一下根據行政院主席總署2021年的調查勞工因為照顧65歲以上的家屬離職的人數大概2010年大概有將近1500人已經超過要照顧未滿12歲子女的離職人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18177.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18199.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
也就是說高齡化社會可能高齡化加上少子化所以這個數據可能沒有錯那勞工為了要長期照顧然後離職返家不僅讓家庭少了一份經濟來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18200.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18209.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
對於理直的勞工來講他的退休保障也會減少,年資會中斷嘛那雇主也會減少一個熟練 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18215.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18237.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
就是在公司的運作上比較選手的員工就是等於各方面來看都是一件不利的事情對公司員工跟國家來看都是不利的根據勞動部2024年雇用管理局 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18238.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18261.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
工作場所就業平均概況的調查報告指出勞工最近一年有照顧家人需求的比例是28%而最近一年曾經申請家庭照顧假的女性的受僱者只有5.8%男性只有2.4% |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18264.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18271.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
有照顧需求跟申請家庭照顧價兩者的落差部長覺得原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18274.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18299.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
家庭照顧價確實有幾個原因第一個當然有些資產文化的原因那第二個也有一個原因的確是因為家庭照顧價目前是沒有薪資的所以對於員工來說勞工來說他其實對於去申請比較沒有薪資的這個家庭照顧價他的誘因會比較低沒有薪資啊而且他併入市價來計算 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18300.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18327.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
所以可能反而有的時候就是直接用市價來請了啦我的看法是這樣子有可能那家庭照顧假併入就是無薪嘛然後併入市價來看那剛剛講的那一份報告呢也講說假如說未來法令有新增 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18329.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18346.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
沒有不擠薪也沒有津貼補助的長期照顧安排假這個跟剛才的照顧假不一樣照顧假大概就是家裡的人發生重大的疾病啦或是接種疫苗 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18348.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18368.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
預防接種等等因素這個是假是單日的我現在講的是長時間的就是說也是你們的調查報告裡面假如說有長照安排假或是長照留職停薪勞工會申請的比例高於75% |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18371.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18382.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
這個是你們的報告的書子顯示說縱使我國長照制度設計把長照安排價 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18383.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18399.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
等等設計為無薪或者沒有補助勞工還是有申請長照假的意願代表有需求那我們邁入超高齡社會以後啊對於長者 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18402.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18424.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
長者照顧的需求會一直增加我們勞動部這邊有沒有要參考日本建立的介護休業制度就是可以請93天假或者是國內民團倡議的長照安排假勞動部的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18426.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18442.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
跟我們說明喔其實針對因為我們今天討論比較多是顧小那我們現在在講的是顧老的部分那顧老部分確實現在會有一個整體的是這個衛福部現在也在研擬所謂的長照3.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18443.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18461.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
希望能夠針對僱老的部分跟我們的整體的照顧制度尤其是長照照顧的僱老的部分再做一個整體的規劃所以我們目前會先針對僱小的部分先來做處理那當然僱老的部分我們會來看衛福部這邊的長照3.0的規劃他們整個這個政策的規劃的架構來需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18468.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18485.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
我們當然願意跟衛福部一起來做這個事情的討論但是這部分會來自因為顧老要不要有假要不要有留庭要不要有什麼等等的這個概念或者他的概念要限縮還是擴大這裡面會來自於我們整個照顧政策的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18486.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18499.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
對 所以我們其實跟衛福部針對這部分我們有交換意見過可是現在會先看衛福部整體的照顧政策除了長照制度的配合以外其實勞動部這邊要思考的還有勞資雙方怎麼去達到一個平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
18507.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
18533.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
跟委員說明其實這個政策邏輯應該是會是從兩位服務這邊的長照政策他的需求他必須開始他整體的需求是如何這個需求上面有沒有需要職場上面的這些架或者是留庭的制度去協助銜接這裡面可能我們其實從勞動部角度我們是在是配合需求端再去做相關的研理就像顧曉 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
18534.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
18537.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
我們是先看到有需求我們才來做規劃配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
18539.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
18564.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
因為部長這樣子講我大概知道啦不過我覺得勞動部的政策擬定除了衛福部的長照政策以外你們還是必須要達到勞資雙方到底怎樣取得一個平衡點部長我問最後一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
18568.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
18573.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
就是說日本為了減輕在職的育兒壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
18577.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
18600.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
並且用彈性制度強制義務化為核心避免因為育兒導致離職強化制度和職場友善提升實際使用透過修法大概從今年10月起他們會要求所有的企業含中小企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
18604.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
18625.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
從底下五項 就是在家工作 調整上下班時間 縮短工時每年至少十天的一日有三假以及企業提供托育措施他們就是從十月起會要求所有的企業從這五項裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
18628.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
18649.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
最少要實施兩項那我們我們勞動部覺得這個這樣子的政策值不值得我們會不會會不會參考然後推行像我們我們其實都願意來參考各國的制度甚至也不只是日本但是他就就 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
18650.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
18668.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
這五項裡面它其實也包括了育嬰留庭 家庭照顧 其實我們也有大家是說強制的五選二啦就是強制性的我們的育嬰留庭跟家庭照顧現在在法律上的概念其實也是強制的就是說怎麼減輕在職者的育兒壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
18674.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
18701.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
其實算是國家一個很重要的政策因為育兒的環境越不友善少子化的趨勢就會越嚴重還有一些問題今天因為時間的關係我下一次再跟部長做探討謝謝部長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
18706.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
18733.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝楊耀仁 謝謝部長本日會議詢答全部結束委員林德甫楊瓊所提書面執行列入紀錄刊登公報現在作以下決定 報告及詢答完畢委員執行未及答覆或補充資料者請相關機關以兩週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其所定 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
18735.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
18736.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
本次會議到此結束 現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
18771.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
18771.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
谢谢大家 |