| IVOD_ID |
16754 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16754 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2025060996 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-12T12:30:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-12T13:44:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:13:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528ed714ad69ae6c791446b5daf2e25d97488b19dddded0b194ffffa978c1a86db8f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-12T13:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：本院台灣民眾黨黨團建請院會作成決議：「行政院主計總處應依立法院審議中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案通案刪減之決議意旨，由中央各機關及所屬編列之預算刪減調整，並立即將一般性補助款足額撥付予地方政府。」請公決案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:30:17 - 13:44:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 非常感謝我們各位黨團的代表還有我們行政機關的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1814.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1837.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那我先跟大家介紹一下目前各個黨團出席的代表從我左手邊開始中國國民黨的羅志強委員王玉民委員台灣民眾黨的張其凱委員黃珊珊委員不好意思後面還有個鄭天才委員不好意思那右手邊的是民主金服黨的黨團代表鍾嘉斌委員我們今天列席的官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1838.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1862.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
有行政院的秘書長龔明新那龔秘書長說他另有要務所以這場協商他大概就參加15到20分鐘嘛我如果理解沒有錯誤的話那我們時間計算方便起見就到1點20分好不好我們1點20分以後因為龔秘書長另有要工讓他先離席由常務副秘書長李國新到時候再來代表行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1863.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1876.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那行政院主計總處主計廠陳淑芝財政部政務次長阮清華內政部常務次長吳唐安那以及法務部政務次長黃士傑那個黃士傑次長人還沒到是不是是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1883.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1901.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
什麼在路上馬上到好沒有關係那我們反正會議就繼續進行那今天協商的主旨是我們要處理有院會有院會抽出禁夫惡毒以後由台灣民眾黨黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1903.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1926.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
來召集協商也就是台灣民眾黨黨團所提出來的建請行政院主計總署因依立法院審議中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案通案刪減之決議一直由中央各機關及所屬編列之預算刪減調整並立即將一般性的補助款足而撥付給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1927.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1945.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那這一個組決議本來是在6月3號的時候由院會交付財政委員會審查那不過在6月4號財政委員會雖然有排審但並沒有實質的審議這個議案所以在6月6號的時候我們就從委員會抽出 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1946.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1958.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
禁負二讀,那在二讀的時候,有院會交付黨團協商,那由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商我先把今天協商的主旨以及原由啊,跟大家報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1959.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1981.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因為點下秘書長有要功我相信這件事情全國人民也好地方政府也好很多委員也好大家都很關心有很多議事上面各自的論述跟表達都做過了我就想為了效率起見我們是不是就以黨團為代表交互輪流的發言每位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1983.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2004.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
發言的時間第一輪我們就以三分鐘為限讓行政院秘書長也有機會可以來回應各位委員他們的案子那我們首先先請提案的黨團也就是台灣民眾黨黨團來負責說明那是有哪一位負責說明有珊珊嗎好那我們請黃珊珊不好意思那個黃珊珊委員不 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2005.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2027.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
開始以前補充介紹一下那個法務部的政務次長黃士傑現在已經趕到了現場我們現在請黃珊珊委員先做代表台灣民眾黨團做說明那時間三分鐘請好的謝謝主席還有各位那個珊珊請稍微等一下我讓議事人忙一下他們今天比較手忙腳亂一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2038.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2065.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
還是那個要我操作嗎可以喔不好意思辛苦你了好 時間三分鐘現在開始謝謝主席還有各位立院的同仁我想這個案子的提案非常的簡單也就是立法院在通過114年的總預算的法定預算要求中央政府遵截支出才進行統刪並授權行政機關試探業務需求自行去刪減非必要的636億 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2066.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2093.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
然後主計處最近接受委員質詢回答的是說因為各部會照山洞比例較以往高所以提出了三個方案最終行政院長卓榮泰拍板刪的是一般性補助款他的方案有只對地方政府刪一般補助款還有只刪債務複習或者是以上兩者各刪一半但是看起來卓榮泰院長選擇了只刪地方政府的一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2093.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2109.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這是院長做的這次決定但是他這個決定違反了立法院在刪除預算的所有的相關的意旨還有我們當時統刪的原則統刪預算不是今年才獨創過去都有統刪預算行政機關、立法機關長期都有這樣的狀況那行政機關在統刪的部分從來沒有直接刪過所謂的一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2119.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2144.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那這一次的一般型補助款的刪除顯然是總統台院長針對他認為地方的補助款不是最優先最必要而且是可以隨時拋棄的東西這個我們認為說在這次的預算刪減裡面並沒有真正去落實所謂原來保障地方財政尤其是在財務法通過之後不得低於前一年度的地方補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2145.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2154.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
光這幾個原則都有違反亂集的狀況另外113年的中央政府總決算就去年的總決算全年2.85兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2156.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2178.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
執行的結果省下了672億也就是說中央政府的預算過2.85兆他一年光沒用完的錢就達到670億他絕對不是沒有錢可以刪而需要去刪掉一般補助款所以今天我們希望這個提案能夠盡速的通過要求行政院立即將地方補助款一次撥足謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2180.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2193.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 那個謝謝黃珊珊委員那接下來我們是是國民黨要先還是那個民進黨要先好 那看起來要先那個請國民黨的委員那我們請王育民委員來計時三分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2195.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2220.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好謝謝主席還有我們政府官員我想這一次這個行政院去刪除地方政府一般性補助款這個比例高達27%這樣子的一個高比例其實過去是史無前例從來沒有發生過的事情那大家知道這些地方的一般性補助款在去年的地方議會都已經是通過的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2222.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2247.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
現在正在執行中結果現在行政院告訴他說你的27%被砍了沒有了那這一般性補助款事實上它關乎的是什麼很多在地方用的就是在社福在教育方面的預算特別是社福預算它其實涉及到有一些是幼兒的補助有一些是這個老人的生活今天的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2247.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2265.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
弱勢佔很多的比例所以中央執政應該要苦民所苦這筆預算你砍掉的其實就是這些照顧弱勢人民的這些生活的經費我想這件事情有很多縣市首長是強烈的反彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2268.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2293.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有的是走这个行政夙愿我想有多个县市已经提出行政夙愿那我想连这个绿影执政的县市首长今天也在喊苦就是觉得没有这笔钱地方政府真的是很难运作今天我们可以看到包括陈其迈市长他们也觉得这个一般性补助款应该要尽快的恢复所以在这件事情上面呢我觉得行政院不应该是 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2294.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2309.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
任意的去刪除地方的一般性補助款這個我再次強調這是史無前例那這個也違反我們整個在總預算編列立法院通過這樣的精神立法院通過的預算沒有一筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2309.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2326.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
是去刪除這個中央對地方的補助款所以行政院必須依法行政不應該是用這樣子的一個比較粗暴的方式來對待地方政府我想這個中央跟地方政府應該是通力合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2327.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2345.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
通力合作所以這個中央政府給地方政府的責任應該是支持就支持地方政府去施政然後跟他共同合作但是我們很遺憾的看到這一次行政院所採取的方式是去懲罰地方政府然後去苛扣應該要給他們的這些法定的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2349.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2364.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
而造成施政上的困擾坦白講地方政府他其實也是在幫中央政府執行各項的施政那今天用這樣子的一個高強度沒有法律依據去刪除地方高達27%的這樣的一個預算我覺得這個在中華民國這個整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2372.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2394.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
政府治理史上是前所未見而且是個錯誤應該要修正回來所以應該要立刻補足地方政府被刪除掉的這一些一般性補助款讓地方政府可以順利的施政以上 謝謝好 謝謝王玉明委員那那個民進黨有哪位委員代表來 請鐘嘉斌委員主席 首先在程序上 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2399.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2420.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
要待會請主席或議事人員做說明因為剛剛主席在一開始就有說本案本來是排定在6月4號由6月3號的院會交付財政委員會進行審查6月4號財政委員會的召委賴世保也排定了進行審查但是剛剛主席說並沒有進行實質審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2422.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2436.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那我就很疑惑了在場的黃珊珊委員本席還有我們的李昆城委員都是財政委員的委員我們當天都參與了審查甚至剛剛黃珊珊委員也說了當天審查的時候多次您剛講多次 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2437.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2465.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們主記長多次答詢其他委員詢問的時候說了您說的那一段話就是地方性補助款統三的時候如何如何顯見在6月4號財政委員會是有進行審查的不然我也相信張旗開委員坐在這裡他那天也參與了當天的審查至於他認不認為他的所發言是進行審查那就由張委員自己決定好那麼既然有進行審查但是呢接下來在院會的時候抽出淨富二讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2466.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2492.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那麼依法我們就根據我們的立法院職權行使法第12章第70條議案交由黨團協商時由該議案之院會說明人也就是目前坐在主席上的人來所屬的黨團負責召集這也就是說今天黃委員之所以可以坐在這裡召集這個黨團協商的主要原因但是我們看到第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2493.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2512.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第二項他說各黨團指派一支代表其中一人因為審查會委員除非黨團所屬委員均非審查會委員時不再此現現在國民黨黨團跟民眾黨黨團黃珊珊委員是財政委員會是我們審查該案的所屬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2514.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2535.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
但是我們在場的國民黨委員鄭天才委員當天有到財政委員參加審查但他不是財政委員的委員王一鳴委員也不是財政委員的委員所以請主席就這個部分說明一下議事人員根據我們立法院職員行使法第70條第二項那麼目前國民黨在場的審查委員是否有符合第70條第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2536.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2561.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
他們應該其中一人為審查會委員那麼事實上我要強調的是說在程序上本案是由院會交付財政委員會進行審查但是在院會後來被抽出禁錮二讀但這不影響本案原來是在財政會進行審查的所以依我們的立法院職權行使法應該第七十條第二項來參與黨團協商的各黨團代表至少應有一人為財政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2565.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2570.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好 那個謝謝鄭大兵委員的高見 簡單說明一下 第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2571.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2595.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那一天財政委員會是不是有審查還是沒有審查從早上九點一開始誰在鬧場搞到後面下午人不夠有審查還是沒有審查我想立法院的IVOD全程轉播全國國民大家看得清清楚楚的我比較遺憾的事情是說當天 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2597.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2615.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
當天在那邊強力背個不讓委員會進行審查然後現在又主張委員會有審查我老實講啦事情的狀況是什麼每一個台灣公民都有眼睛自己去看全程的轉播就好了第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2616.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2638.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
至於說今天中國國民黨黨團所派來的代表能不能夠代表中國國民黨黨團我們有預設立場我都尊重我都尊重那其他的委員就好好的代表自己的黨團就好了有的時候也沒有必要月主代保就管到其他黨團去派哪一位委員來這邊參與協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2641.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2653.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那因為第一輪的發言已經結束因為我知道張祺凱伟似乎想要再發言那祺凱你是想先發言還是因為那個等一下秘書長他等一下1點20分就要離開了是不是先讓秘書長講個話還是你希望能夠先講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2657.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2671.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
主席程序問題沒有處理啊我現在說目前的黨團協商是不好意思喔我現在我現在正在舉行會議請你不要按著喇叭吼請你把你的喇叭給消掉請你尊重我的會議主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2672.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2700.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
請你尊重我的會議主持那一天民進黨就是透過尊重手段在杯葛財政委員會在杯葛財政委員會的審查請你尊重主席請你尊重主席沒有關係啊你們有什麼意見等一下自己回去開記者會去說明現在是我在主席黨團協商宗嘉斌委員請你不要拍桌子 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2701.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2715.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
請你不要拍桌子 鍾嘉斌委員請你不要拍桌子 李崑崇委員請你按掉喇叭你現在就要拍桌子今天民進黨的委員 聖丹沒有要好好的協商這件事情請你把你的喇叭按掉我是黨團的代表我是副書記長黨團的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2732.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2733.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2751.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2779.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
按照程序問題先來做處理啊請尊重主席的會議主席你不會因為你在這邊撬銷拍桌子就隨著你起舞那一天財政委員會就是這樣被你們民進黨委員搞爛的那天程序委員會從頭到尾空調完我老實跟你講你不是會議主持人你不是會議主持人 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2780.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2797.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
是 沒有錯 我現在就是按照程序在進行請中嘉賓委員不要再咆哮 不要再拍桌子尊重主席的會議主持 可以嗎好 來 請行政院秘書長龔明星針對三個黨團的立場 請回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2802.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2830.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
來 請拱明星秘書長發言來 請拱明星秘書長發言請我們議事領先做說明嘛把這個問題把它說明好就可以了把這個問題說明好就可以了啊來 請那個李坤城委員把你喇叭按掉我再說一次會議的主席是我會議的主席是我對 是我消音的 沒有錯來 請行政院秘書長拱明星說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2832.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2836.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
主席要處理程序啊來 請國民心秘書長來 請來 請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2849.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2858.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
藝術規則藝術裡面講一下自己看一下我弄錯了你告訴我哪一條來請秘書長說明來請秘書長說明來請秘書長說明謝謝我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2878.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2884.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好 我剛剛聽了說是重要的是你們自己先 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2886.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2911.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
來 請秘書長發言現在是秘書長的發言時間請你尊重會議主席的主持我剛剛已經請秘書長發言了請秘書長發言好 謝謝我想行政院絕對不是任意的事實上已經窮盡了任何的方式那所以才會決定佐檢一般性的補助是不得不的一個結果跟做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2912.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2938.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那考量地方政府近年來事實上也大幅改善了這個財政能力那希望可以共體時間那如果真的地方政府有具體的需求的時候我想中央政府也一定會給予協助那另外我想如果立法院、統一行政院可以辦理追加預算我想這個也是一個解決之道以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2948.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2959.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
在接下來發言以前針對剛剛有委員所提出有關立法院職權行使法適用的問題我現在請我們的議事同仁說明報告各位委員70條立法院職權行使法第70條第二項所指的各黨團指派之代表其中一人應為審查會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2977.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2987.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
這個前段的規定因為這個案子已經綽綽近乎二讀所以在審查會沒有結論所以他並不適用說一定要派其中一位要是審查會的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2989.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3015.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好 那非常明顯剛剛在這邊大聲咆哮拍桌指責別人不懂立法院職權刑事法的鍾嘉斌委員原來搞不清楚立法院職權刑事法在這邊恣意的叫囂 謾罵 拍桌 指責別人的人依照意識人員的說明恐怕才是不懂立法院職權刑事法我們接下來請台灣民眾黨黨團的代表張祺凱委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3017.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3021.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
今天這個會議有兩個非常重要的重點第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3022.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3048.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
就是要扭回矯正民進黨政府特別是行政院的違法亂紀跟無法補填第二更重要喔扭正完之後趕快把地方政府嗷嗷待哺攸關到一般民眾的社會福利預算教育預算跟基礎建設的預算趕快撥下去台灣民眾黨的提案非常清楚做兩件事情第一個行政院不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3049.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3071.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
不只是法盲耶 不要連變成是文盲我們立法院的刪讀條文預算案清清楚楚它的決議的意思是什麼由中央各機關及所屬邊內之預算刪減調整請問行政院哪一個人 行政院長卓榮泰你哪隻眼睛看到有要刪地方的補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3072.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3099.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
你是文盲還是不只是法盲是文盲嗎所以第一個把這個矯正回來不能夠砍不能夠砍地方的補助款你要從中央政府機關跟所屬的這個單位這是第一個點第二個立即補助將一般補助款足而撥給地方那剛剛秘書長說窮監方法至少違反了兩個很嚴重的第一個我看到國倉去問了主計長租給店 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3102.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3108.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
你說你本來送給行政院總統在總縣長有三個解決方案嘛對不對第一個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3110.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3132.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
前述三類國債戶籍 這個就是我一直在提醒你的啊2002年行政院長張進雄 總統是陳水扁啊那時候經過朝野協商 撿了什麼 就是這個嘛 對不對所以那時候陳水扁行 為什麼現在賴清德不行張進雄行 為什麼左翁派不行你要用人家是第一個案子啊 什麼叫窮盡方法 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3135.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3162.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
2002年的中央政府總預算才一兆五千億欸 是現在的一半欸那時候調了多少 諸葛定385億 對不對欸 685億 比你的636還多欸有潛力可循 你明明可以用第一個案啊所以就用這個第一個案就解決問題了啊周榮泰弄錯方法嘛他沒有把人民放在心上嘛 他就砍了人民最重要的社福 教育 跟地方的補助好 第二個更嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3164.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3184.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
行政院長跟組計長你們要做什麼事情預算那麼多你就是要有輕重緩急嘛就你砍的當然是要砍那個比較不是那麼急的預算嘛砍比較不重要的嘛或者是浪費的嘛結果你現在砍的地方這個每一筆都是人民最需要的輕重緩急這不是最重最急的事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3185.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3195.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
應該怎麼對得起人民所以第一個有潛力可行2002年的例子事實上主計長也提了這三案子的第一案這是第一個所有解決方案第二更重要不要違反輕重反擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3197.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3220.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
對不對 所以盡快 你現在回過頭去你可以用第一個案子的方式 用利息的方式第二個 你看他有去檢討你立法 這個行政部裡面有多少浪費多少不當甚至有弊案的 他有去處理啊包括我再提醒你 審計部的結算報告要你去檢討外面住辦公室的社會發展部現在每一年還花了五千多萬在那邊住辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3221.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3248.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
審計部不叫你查嗎把該省的錢省下來把636億找出來不是困難的所以有兩條路第一個趕快用你的地案全數刪除這個國債的付息是一個方法第二個去把輕重緩急裡面那些被審計部認為是浪費的不當的立法院提出很多弊案了該減的趕快減一減把636億拿出來所以要刪減的是中央各機關跟所屬單位的第二個更重要的馬上 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3249.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3258.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
撥給地方趕快補足 地方該給的錢都是救命錢 都是跟人民有關的社福 藉著這些錢趕快撥下去好 謝謝張祺台委員那接下來是民進黨黨團的代表要發言嗎我剛有舉手 現在來請陳培武委員發言我先跟您確認 計時幾分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3267.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3289.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
3分鐘好 現在主席剛剛主席先談到程序問題剛剛我們跟議事人員對過了您手上翻的資料是舊的請大家看74字1條裡面就有寫照依照第8條鎖定進赴二讀之議案應交付黨團協商並由提案委員或所屬黨團負責召集這個部分我不知道然後再適用到70到74條 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3291.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3316.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
也就是如果我再把74之1推回到70條第二款裡面就會提到要有相關委員會的委員所以中嘉賓委員剛剛提出的程序沒有問題還是要拜託主席秉公處理至於剛剛你要我現在回答嗎還是我最後再綜合回答主席這是我的發言時間好那你為了問題不要求我現在再回答我等你發完以後再回答來時間繼續主席要暫停計時你時間要不要還給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3319.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3323.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我們從2分20秒開始我剛剛講了8秒鐘的話來從2分20秒開始來請繼續針對張祺凱委員剛剛莫名其妙的發言我想這一切所有預算的亂象要不要回去問一下你們的黃國昌主席民眾黨現在想要改名叫台灣直播黨的黨主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3337.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3353.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
當時你們提出那個是亂刪減預算的事情你們到現在還是沒有回應人民這個疑問而所有當時你們自己還說算不出來要叫組織總署幫你們算過去組織總署幫忙計算的案例是每一個預算提案都可以好好協商好好討論請問你們針對每一個預算可以好好協商好好討論了嗎我已經舉過非常多例子了可能各位委員不但愛讀書包含國民黨委員魯明哲 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3362.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3367.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
提出要刪減文化幣的預算陳玉珍要刪除公共電視的預算這些都是因為人民要看相關電視要讀相關的書籍有相關的補助你們見不得人民在言論跟思想上有所進步你們做出這樣荒謬提案而這只是四千多個荒謬提案裡面其中一兩個拿出來讓人家笑而已所以張其凱請你不要再造謠 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3384.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3399.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
還有我要最後要說你口口聲聲要在嘉義人民爭取福利你甚至提出荒謬的提案但我要說你在行政院多做事你不用給他多給錢嗎如果今天所有多做出來的事情多了大學補助 多了所有育兒津貼所有房租補貼所有說出來要多做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3401.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3430.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
他不用給錢你不用給他錢嗎你口口聲聲喊著多少預算是史上新高那我就問蔣萬安台北市他增加了多少預算如果蔣萬安也不會做那他是不是應該要下台我想你們就是雙標雙標黨就不用再說了而這一切一切請你們回歸到所有混亂的源頭請不要再造謠每次在協商就是聽到你在造謠我想直播大家都看得非常清楚我也知道等一下我們講完之後我們所有的發言都會被跪黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3432.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3441.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
在野黨做成荒謬的影片繼續磨黑我們我只要說所有的文書都留在立法院公報系統裡面大家都看得一清二楚人民眼睛不是瞎的以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3444.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3463.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
好 謝謝陳柏宇委員針對剛剛陳柏宇委員所提出來的槌尋說明如下依照74條之一由所屬的黨團召集協商我今天之所以會坐在這邊就是因為收到院會的來文由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3464.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3491.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那第二點在法條的適用上面可能再回去看清楚並不是像剛剛陳委員所這樣解釋的也正是因為如此我剛剛才會沒有打斷陳委員的發言因為據我所知陳培宇委員似乎也不是財政委員會的委員你是司法署委員會的委員是是是 那個請你先把麥克風按掉是是是那剛剛我只有回答你們的問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3493.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3511.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
你說要財政委員 是你們民進黨說要財政委員會的委員才可以啊那現在從你陳培余的發言不就證明了不用財政委員會的委員也可以代表黨在這邊發言嗎不好意思喔 是 但是你不是 但是你不是對 但是你不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3515.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3538.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
剛剛你在發言的時候,我尊重你發言的時間請你官層委員把你的麥克風按掉現在是在主席回應的時間現在主席在回應請你官層委員把你的麥克風...對,你是財政委員會,但你不是主席啊但你現在不是會議主席啊對啊,當會議主席沒有請你發言啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3540.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3567.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
雖然是台瘦委員會的要來這邊怎麼樣發言都可以嗎請李光誠委員不要恣意地按麥克風請尊重主席的會議主席請尊重主席的會議主席這個問題是你們陳培余委員提出來的我依照你們陳培余委員提出來的問題所以呢你陳培余不是台瘦委員會的委員所以我剛剛也讓你發言了啊請你們尊重主席的會議主席很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3567.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3589.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
當你發言我也停止下來讓你完整的陳述我完全按照你所提的問題來回應你們這樣也有問題嗎尊重一下主席的會議主持好不好不要恣意的按麥克風你們每一個人發言的機會我都非常的公平各個黨團然後輪流的發言不好意思我是會議主席在回答你的問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3591.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3606.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
奇怪你問我問題然後又不讓我回答天底下有這個道理嗎第二個部分剛剛陳培宇委員說什麼台灣民眾黨是直播黨我想要跟你糾正一下台灣民眾黨就是台灣民眾黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3607.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3631.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
台灣民眾黨的黨主席從來沒有下令所屬的每一個立委都要趕快開直播就我記憶所及去年有下這個命令的似乎是民主進步黨的賴清德主席說所屬的立委要開直播那台灣民眾黨從過去柯文哲主席到我為止我從來沒有下令說所屬的立委都要開直播所以如果有人要扣什麼直播黨的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3632.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3657.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這個似乎是要還給那個有下令的民主進步黨會比較妥適一點那第三個剛剛陳委員所講的說那這個預算齁當初就是沒有好好協商沒有好好討論那我相信全國的公民啦把去年在預算在協商的時候到底誰坐在現在陳培餘坐的位置然後在盤古開天然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3658.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3682.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
癱瘓了兩次總預算協商的機會我相信全國人民也都看得非常的清楚那以上針對陳培宇委員剛剛的垂詢回覆如上接下來我們請中國國民黨的代表鄭天才委員發言第一個這一次之所以會產生這個問題就是在今年1月 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3684.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3702.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這個韓國瑜院長主持朝野協商的時候甚至韓國瑜院長在朝野協商本來是安排兩天在開始的時候還特別提如果協商時間不足禮拜六跟禮拜天還可以再加開 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3704.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3727.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
但是大家都很清楚回顧一下當時是我們的柯總召一直一直在說大罷免的事情所以就沒有去沒有沒有機會協商這是第一個第二個預算審查完了之後韓國瑜院長去了總統府之後在今年的2月18號韓國瑜院長又召開了協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3734.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3741.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
針對行政院到底有什麼自愛男性的可以再討論必要的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3743.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3766.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
可以追加預算當時的一個方向是這樣但是很可惜的那一次2月18號依然沒有辦法協商這是補充另外就是說這一次的整個行政院刪減中央地方中央補助地方政府的一般性補助款從這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3769.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3785.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
財政收支劃分法所授權行政院訂定的中央對地方政府的補助辦法裡面第二條第二條就很明確的這些一般性補助款是要作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3787.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3805.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
法例相關的法例譬如說國民年金法條文裡面都有寫國民年金法農民健保條例老年農民福利津貼暫停條例中低收入戶老人這些辦法所規定的地方政府需要配合的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3806.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3825.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
就要從這個地方一般性補助款裡面來自用另外在第三條裡面也寫得很清楚一般性補助款就是要作為社福跟這些教育基礎設施之用所以這個倒是一個法律義務的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3826.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3850.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
從行政院113年8月30號送到立法院的中114年度中央政府總預算案編列依法律醫務支出的明細表第九之一也特別提到一般性補助款是法律醫務支出所以既然是法律醫務支出就不應該來刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3853.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3877.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
如果真的是確實如行政院長所說的希望追加預算就不是要針對一般協助款追加預算要針對中央所要支用的不足的部分去追加預算是中央要支用的部分好 謝謝那個各黨團的代表目前我們都按照公平的原則進行了兩輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3879.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3895.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那梁榮文的發言以後針對這次我們要討論的議案本身因為來協商嘛我們最重要的就是要針對議案本身有沒有辦法達成共識因為我們在黨團協商的現場誰也沒有辦法逼誰一定要採取什麼立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3899.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3919.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
各自的立場說清楚講明白全國人民能夠了解這樣就好了那目前我們現在是要求建請院會做成決議行政院主計總署因依立法院審議中華民國114年度中央政府總預算通案三檢之決議一旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3921.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3940.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
由中央各機關及所屬編列之預算三減調整並立即將一般性的補助款足而撥付於地方政府那針對這個議案本身那個主席歸納一下台灣民眾黨黨團的立場是表示贊成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3941.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3955.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
中國國民黨黨團的立場也是表示贊成的那民主進步黨黨團的立場是不是表示反對因為剛剛兩輪發言以後我還聽不出來民主進步黨黨團的立場是贊成還是反對是贊成還是反對可以啊來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3965.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3982.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
謝謝主席那我本身是財政委員會那在場大概是只有33委員跟我是屬於這個財政委員會那我要先提一下就是說6月4號的那個會議其實是有開程的當天的主席是賴世保委員是有開程的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3983.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4003.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那當天的所有的發言的委員也都有完成的發言的程序到最後會議的結束那所以那一天的整個會議的過程並不是像主席所講的沒有審議它是有審議那或許不如主席的意那所以呢你們就是到了這一個院會的時候抽出來然後今天坐朝也寫上 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4004.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4024.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那我還是再重複一下就是說我們的立場我們立場就是說這個行政院主席出的做法沒有違法它完全是按照法律的程序來做導致當時候在野黨通過總預算的時候留下了這一個統三數不低於940億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4026.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4039.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那這一個需要行政院再去來做一個統刪那行政院也問過了問過了在野黨那你如果扣掉了可以刪掉的304億還有636億該怎麼刪要從哪些項目刪哪些部會來刪在野黨說不出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4047.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4074.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那所以說整個總運算 送出來的時間就延後了為什麼 因為其實在立法院一直算不出來說那到底統刪 到底要刪哪些項目那所以後來行政院才有這個 做了這個決定這個636億的部分 用所謂的一般性的補助款來做這個調節那政業黨的委員也提到說 好啦 那這個一般性補助款這個都好像是跟這個民生啊 社會福利有相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4076.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4104.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
但是這個一般性的補助款是屬於縣市的收入也就是稅入 稅入的部分那各位委員所提到的部分都是屬於這一個支出 稅出的部分所以說稅出的部分要怎麼去做調整是屬於各個縣市政府可以去做處理的部分那除了這個之外其實行政院也有提出來提出來就是說我們是不是可以用追加預算的方式來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4105.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4124.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那其實像張善政 桃園市的市長 他當過行政院院長他就知道說行政院的做法 他是可以接受的所以當行政院提出來說 是不是這636億可以用追加預算來做處理的時候張善政他是同意的 他是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4124.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4146.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以我也希望說在場的這個在野黨的委員也能夠支持這636億用追加預算的方式來做處理那我想這不論是中央或是地方有了這個追加預算之後大家也不會說那接下來這些不過的預算要怎麼做處理那以上就是我的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4148.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4171.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
謝謝李昆城委員跟所有黨團的代表報告我們今天討論的是要求中央行政院將一般性的補助款足額撥付給地方政府追加預算所謂的追加預算的案子第一個既不在本次協商的範圍之內第二個到目前為止除了媒體放話我也沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4172.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4200.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我們的行政院有提任何追加的案子送到本院來那無論如何這個追加預算就不在今天協商的範圍內而且這個空中樓格到目前為止也沒有到立法院來所以沒有辦法來加以處理但我只想要最後因為這個會牽涉到我們協商結論要怎麼寫啦所以針對將一般性的補助款足而撥付給地方政府民進黨立法院黨團的立場是反對的嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4201.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4225.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
是嗎 對民進黨立法院黨團反對把一般性的補助款足而撥付給地方政府那我們今天的黨團結商沒有辦法獲至共識那我們接下來就會就邀這個郊遊院會處理主席 上會等一下 主席我可以補充一下嗎對不起我已經喊上會了那沒關係的我還是要說一下從預算通過當時呢民眾 |