| IVOD_ID |
167487 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167487 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-20-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-16T10:06:06+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-16T10:17:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f689ecd1baeef128cb9845512775efda379ba3647d0b3df3c8f0c8cd608c1fd9b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:06:06 - 10:17:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。） |
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主席麻煩請陳主席長委員好依照我們財政紀律法中央政府的總預算能夠 |
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23.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
43.004 |
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中央政府能夠舉借的是要佔這個前三年度平均GDP有多少個百分之十五四十點六如果是總那個是四十點六四十點六嘛那現在你知道我們中央政府就算這個普通的預算跟這個 |
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45.266 |
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56.451 |
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這個特別預算加總在一起我們現在的舉借數是多少比例是多少26點多26.426.4是你知不知道在馬英九執政的時候曾經高達38點多是剩下只有2點多個百分點36點多啦 |
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36.3決算的時候你說馬英九的時代36.3所以那個差距只剩下4個百分點那個時候是非常危急啊那時候我有在財政委員會嘛 |
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79.008 |
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103.089 |
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那當然你也可以說原因是因為我們這幾年台灣經濟成長率明顯提升所以連續三年的GDP就是往去年前年大前年三年加總在一起的平均數那個金額是比當年是高出很多的我舉個例子馬英九在當總統的時候我在當立法委員2012年那時候國家政府的總預算 |
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134.519 |
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提預算到立法院來才一兆五千億左右詳細數據記不得了大概一兆四千多億或是一兆五千多億大概就是一兆五千億左右那去年度的國家政府總預算是三兆零三百五十億那前年呢前年是三一百一十四年是三兆零六萬九 |
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136.328 |
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162.053 |
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六十九萬三兆零六十九億吧三兆零六十九億那前年你知道是多少嗎兩兆七兩兆七嗎我怎麼記得有一年是三兆一千多億啊它是有兩兆七啊總預算是兩兆七那特別預算加起來才有三兆那一百一十四年是三兆零六十九億 |
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163.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.546 |
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那也就是說預算規模從2012年到2024年2025年幾乎增加了一倍嘛所以體量不同啦這個有時候是邏輯跟數字的問題我們公司如果我們的資本額 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
180.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
201.727 |
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是10億元我們可能我們舉借個3億4億我這個舉借的比例蠻高的30% 40%可是我的公司的體量如果已經變成20億我的資本已經20億我舉借的數目是3億4億的時候絕對數字沒有增加但是那個比例是下降很多那國家的預算喔 |
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202.967 |
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224.217 |
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不是跟個人的財務跟公司的財務不一樣不是債務越少越好因為我們要做一些資本門的投資資本門的投資它是會產出的就舉例我這個公司如果到銀行去舉竊我舉竊來的目的是增加生產增加生產之後是能夠再為公司賺進更多的錢這個是大家都 |
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225.277 |
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247.435 |
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贊成這樣子的做法所有的總體經濟學 總體財政學大家都贊成這樣的講法所以台灣的負債比例到現在是27 25 26這個在全世界是少見難得的財政超級非常激烈我認為全世界排前三名 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
248.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
273.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
美國的超過他GDP的百分之百嘛日本最高嘛那中國隱藏的數字不算也高過百分之百以上啦那台灣百分之二十幾啊我覺得這是很健康也很好我們這些年的財政控管很好那至於沈記長常常在講的這些其實我在這邊十三四年了你每一年講的都一樣這個內容剛剛那五點 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
303.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這十幾年來你把報告拿出來看都一樣因為你是在顧慮憂慮有這樣的風險而不是指證說現在就是這個樣子那你站在審計的角度一定是要把可能會發生的最不好的狀況就是醫生會把最不好的狀況說你如果在這個吃東西的時候不節制啊這個澱粉吃這麼多啊小心你有糖尿病啊什麼這個講並不是跟你講說你現在有糖尿病 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
305.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
330.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個兩件事情要弄清楚那我現在一個最大的問題是喔去年度應該要審結今年度的國家政府總預算就沒有審嘛那看起來也不會審啦你記不記得去年我就跟你講過你不要傻了 國民黨不會給你審的啦我現在看法也是一樣啦國民黨跟民眾黨加強還是不會審你去年的總預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那現在可以通過一個700多億說你你只可以動用請問那個有沒有經過預算審查啊到底你用了之後會不會追究責任啊我舉個例子你裡面說700多億可以給你用那怎麼用也沒講啊序幕也沒有啊啊你敢用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
352.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
368.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
萬一妳用了之後他不認帳那妳怎麼辦呢是 就是怕這樣怕將來如果說用了不認帳那又做刪減那對行政人員來講這是違法然後也沒有 也是屬於自愛那妳知道他為什麼會通過說這個七星的718醫藥給妳用妳知道什麼原因嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
398.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
因為政治的壓力 選民的壓力啊事情出來了之後 趕快拿個急救章要解決這個事情啊T-pass所有人都在用嘛 大家都在罵啊為什麼你們不審查預算啊 所以趕快用這個東西來搪塞來塞這個騙這些選民啦騙這些需要使用的人我跟你說喔 預算是全國人民共用的他不是哪一個黨派的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
428.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我在這個地方苦口婆心一再講喔如果你的第一預備金、第二預備金跟障礙準備金都不能用270億那個是救命的錢啊你將來台灣萬一發生地震發生颱風、發生淹水這些天災啊中央政府如果救災沒有任何一毛錢可以用欸那要怎麼辦?處理長跟我講要怎麼辦?到時候要怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
430.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
452.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
對 因為現在五月汛期就來那有一些必須要事先做準備的免得將來颱風來的時候要沒有辦法因應所以像災害準備金和第二預備金 第一預備金這總共170億部分那這個部分是很重要的所以我們是希望能夠我如果沒有記錯的話三個加起來是270不是170喔170億 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
456.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
474.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
174我記錯嗎對 因為第二預備金80 災害準備金50其他的第一預備金40是這樣所以170好 那如果沒有這170現在萬一發生天災舉個例子嘛他們副總召花蓮上次不是地震嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
474.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
阿他不是要求我們要去救災嗎那你到時候 媒體上大家又互相推責 又吵得不可開交阿中央政府 無非無罪啊 等於我先知道我們紀元沒辦法給我們錢 沒辦法來救災 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
491.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
503.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他不知道是因為被立法院把你綁死啊錢都不讓你用然後將來還要再歸咎給你那如果吵得不可開竅的時候趕快在立法院他們多數立刻通過一個決議說讓你們用也不講細節啊怎麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
507.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以我是覺得 另外一個角度來講他那個718億我給你用 既然有那個決定的既然他們說任何那個可以用 我個人建議 你就給他用是 我們有簽報院裡面要動之對 那你動之的時候 他至於將來如果有審計書的時候不管 因為你是授權 立法院授權給我用你又不跟我講細節 所以我怎麼用我就怎麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
531.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
543.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為你已經通過這個預算的這個叫他們的說法已經通過預算的這718已經通過預算的這個審議了很奇怪用一個決議然後就說你可以用那以後我會不會用一個決議你的總預算全部都通過了不用審今年度的預算沒有審喔因為我跟你報告我預估喔明年的他也不會給你審 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
557.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他這個會跟你對抗到2028年了他沒有拖垮台灣喔他們不會甘願啦所有的錢都不會讓你用啦阿不然你是要怎樣 我就算多了啦我們國民黨跟民眾黨的票就是比較多 不然你是要怎麼樣到時候就是這樣子的狀況嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
575.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
586.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
預算沒有審議影響到我們整個一個全國一個扶民的一個大計所以我們希望貴院還是能夠盡速來審議那你這個苦口婆心說了很久然後我也跟你預測過了我預測有哪一點不準嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
613.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我跟你說 我準準準啊 沒過啦 也不會審啦要審什麼 立法院365天都開會依照憲法規定兩個會期 中間要休會他也不休我佈建在一個司法防護網 365天都是會期裡面結果預算都不準立法院憲法給你規定最重要的預算審議 他不給你進行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
614.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
638.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們希望還是盡快進入審議我們大家都希望啊 問題是我們的希望要去向誰哭訴啊是 謝謝我們你們趕快大聲講是預備 災害準備金沒有過第一備金第二金沒有過萬一台灣發生天災中央沒有任何一毛錢可以用先講啦不要等到發生了之後才在那邊講說沒有錢可以用現在就要講 馬上就要講開記者會天天講 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
641.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
654.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們也一再呼籲因為170億有災準金、第二預備金還有第一預備金這個已經進入汛期所以這部分都是需要來先行動之的一個部分好 加油了謝謝 |