| IVOD_ID |
167448 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167448 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第2次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第2次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-10T10:02:47+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-10T10:33:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:36 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aecce60a96b323af3e827ecf5654a3af88ce5eb88255d6676090d0cfd0d9ef3645d84521957c0fb45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱慧洳 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:02:47 - 10:33:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第2次會議（事由：一、本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「115年度總預算案中，具有急迫性及攸關重大民生之新興資本支出及新增計畫（如附件），本院同意先行予以動支。」俾以補救行政院怠於推動政務，消極不作為之行徑，影響國計民生。是否有當？請公決案等3案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、3月6日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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麻煩請衛福部長備詢 |
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邱委員好 院長好委員早 部長好我今天站在質詢台上是肩負著互理同仁的期盼 |
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45.287 |
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然後希望在質詢台上能夠向我們有為有首的官員來請命希望我們有為有首的政府能夠儘早趕快的終結我們護理人員血汗的勞動困境好 那我這邊想請教部長 請問一下部長有掌握我國取得護理人員證書的人數有多少嗎 |
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70.931 |
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到目前為止是超過19萬19萬多許得證書是30萬不是 現在直登中的直登中的19萬多那是我第二個問題母數是30萬 直登是19萬謝謝部長已經把我的第二個問題回答出來那我現在想請教部長一個簡單的數學問題就是直登率是多少直登率大概我們從過去看起來average大概在6成到6成5之間 |
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我們的直燈率就如同部長所言就大概是在六成上下那這個直燈率部長你覺得高嗎當然我們還有很多的空間就是很多的場域還是需要護理人員的加入那當然我們也在擴大這個可以直燈的這個場域所以這個直燈客觀上來說其實是不高的是低的 |
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122.971 |
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137.74 |
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羅馬不是一天造成的值登率低也不是一天造成的是從過去今年累月累積到今天我們看到這個63的數字其實是非常的低其實是非常的低那我想值登率會低是因為離職率高 |
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職登率會低是因為護理系學生的註冊率也低所以我們的立法院預算中心其實他就有指出說即使衛福部通過了12項護理人力的整備計畫但是護理人力還是沒有有效的提升讓我們來看圖說故事這副圖的意境是在一條充滿毒物的河流當中 |
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於而自身其中受不了毒物的侵襲所以逃離了這條河那我覺得我們護理職場的困境跟這一個圖的意境也非常的接近就是我們護理人員自身在充滿毒物的護理環境因為受不了被這些毒物所侵襲所以離開了職場紛紛的離開職場那我這邊想請教部長 |
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194.019 |
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221.985 |
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你覺得護理職場的毒物是什麼為什麼會讓護理人員紛紛的想逃離好跟委員說明一下齁那這個過去在從2020開始的這一個全球的這個疫情啊那麼帶來很大的衝擊那我們護理人員確實是非常的辛苦那也因為呢護理人員的投入才能夠讓全球的疫情走出不過呢從全球的報告也看得出來這個長期這個 |
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250.502 |
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長達二到三年的這種疫情也造成了臨床上非常的burn out所以在這個疫情過後全球都發生人力短缺特別是護理人力的短缺部長我知道我想歸咎於COVID-19的問題我想這是一個毋庸置疑的原因這個是其中一個原因但是還有其他的原因當然也會牽涉到我列舉三大毒物 |
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251.262 |
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在護理職場這條河流當中第一個就是護病比高第二個就是低薪第三個就是勞動條件差那請問一下部長您怎麼看當然從這個我們疫情之後也提出了這個改善這個 |
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267.217 |
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290.628 |
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護理人力的12項策略就是從這三個方向來著手第一個就是人才培育第二個就是正向的職場第三個就是薪資的改善所以我們就從這三個方向提出了12項策略那慢慢慢慢的我們也看到了12項策略我滾瓜爛熟非常了如指掌那12項策略其實裡頭並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
292.869 |
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317.075 |
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低薪的提升當然有提到夜班津貼但那不是一個整體薪資的提升有有薪資的提升有在裡頭跟委員說明我們投入了除了剛剛您提到的夜班津貼還有這個三班戶比比獎勵之外我們在這個健保的部分也在做調整像我們去年就調整了這個護理費的部分 |
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319.056 |
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330.685 |
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25億這個會出現在我等一下那它就要轉換到然後我們各項的調整我等一下會呈現護理界的第二個度性物質新資要搭配著提升我們等一下在那邊提到那當然謝謝部長您的補充 |
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332.406 |
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346.302 |
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那我這邊提一下就是您提到十二項整備計劃其實在我一個護理法律學者來看我覺得十二項整備計劃完全沒有提到勞動條件的改善那這一點我們也等一下在第三個進步有啊我們在裡面 |
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347.583 |
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366.795 |
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也有所謂的友善職場的典範推動這個也有在裡面沒關係我們等到第三部分再來慢慢的細說這些我們很關切的主題那也因為我們護理職場這條河充滿毒性物質所以護理的缺口就是始終補不起來 |
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367.976 |
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387.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
去年衛福部提出關於護理人力的高推估是21萬那低推估是20萬8千可是真正投入職場卻只有19萬那這個缺口我想是持續的存在甚至到了2030年也就是民國119年這個缺口就變更大因為當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
388.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
401.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
衛福部所提出來的一個評估的結果護理人力需要的人數是24到26萬那看起來人力的缺口會有5到7萬那請問一下這麼大的一個人力缺口請問衛福部要怎麼因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
403.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
425.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
跟委員說明確實在人力上我們有缺口不過現在也慢慢看到已經在回流當中那麼以現在今年跟去年同期比已經增加4700多人慢慢在回流那另一方面我們要從另外兩個部分一個就是負荷的減輕剛剛提到的我們也導入了所謂的住院整合性照護把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
441.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
護理的助手 照護員把他引入我知道 你在講12項整備計畫的內容那我當然覺得那些是重要但不是最重要的導入智慧照護我們透過科技的協助那麼也來簡化 優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
442.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
462.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
非常急於想要跟我分享你如何改善護理的困境那我們先從第一個毒性物質開始來說題好不好就是高護病比那我想請教一下部長你應該知道現行的法律秩序就是以全日平均護病比來規範護理人員的人力那這裡有三個數字分別是92跟15請問一下部長對這組數字滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
468.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
493.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個是在設置標準裡頭但是我們在113年有開始設定了三班互併比的目標那才會導入這個三班互併比的獎勵計畫就講到我們護理人員胸口永遠的痛因為三班互併比從你剛剛有講三個數字那三個數字 抱歉三班互併比有九個數字這九個數字部長你還記得是什麼時候公告的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
494.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
507.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個是在113年大家討論出來啦作為一個目標作為我們這個叫做三班互併比獎勵達標的這個標準啦三班互併比有九個數字這九個數字是在2025年 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
509.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
531.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
2024年1月26號公告的對就是如同你說的113年但是這個三班戶病比公告至今已經超過兩年了但是都還沒有入法所以我才剛說這是我們護理人員胸口永遠的痛因為一直在期待我們大有為的政府有為有守的衛福部能夠趕快加緊的幫我們推出三班戶病比入法結果沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
532.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
548.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
有為的政府幫我們推動反而是我們台灣民眾黨完全已經等不及了在去年12月12號的時候就把三百五病病護法的條文跟委員說明他的這個達標率已經在提升了在113年起始的時候那麼醫學中心能夠達標的大概只有26% |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
550.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
576.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那現在已經到70%可以達標所以其實在醫學中心如果達標的數字是由醫院自填的請問你覺得會不會失真而欠缺公信力好那我現在請問一下部長顯然你對這組數字九十二十六是不滿意的所以你才提到三班戶病比的九個數字那我們先解決現行的法律秩序我們再展望未來我們護理人員最引頸期班的三班戶病比 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
577.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
598.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那請問一下部長有掌握醫院違反全日平均護病比的開罰資料嗎我們過去這個三班護病比是這樣一方面是設置標準的要求那個是全日護病比那三班護病比呢我們是按照這個目標來做獎勵那但是事實上部長我是在講全日平均護病比 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
598.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
616.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
的開罰資料你有掌握嗎如果你沒有掌握沒有關係我們本辦我2月3號就職2月11號我就去韓問衛福部請衛福部給我們醫院違反全日平均護病比的開罰資料但是衛福部說3月25號才能給我們那我這邊就想請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
617.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
632.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
卓院長在這邊嘛卓院長不是號稱說他手下都是行動內閣嗎那怎麼我們會要一個資料感覺需要曠日廢時的等待等待五個禮拜有一點被拖拖拉拉的感覺那如果你這樣的一個拖拖拉拉的動作其實是有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
633.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
651.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
小達臉你的長官他是行動內閣你展現出來的是烏龜內閣 螞蟻內閣 蝸牛內閣我覺得這樣可能會對卓院長很難交代吧好 那全日平均負病比沒關係因為你們要提供資料五個禮拜3月25號眼見的趕快跟委員說明因為這個全日負病比 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
652.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
668.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他是設在設置標準那麼他的處分單位是在地方政府所以可能我們是需要跟衛生局要去收集其實如果今天身為一個有監督角色的衛福部你早就應該採用這些資料了我請同仁來加速 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
670.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
698.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那麼請這個衛生局趕快提供因為不是立法委員問你你才掌握這些資料應該這些資料你早就應該掌握然後掌握了之後你要思考如何加以改善好那說起這個全日平均護病比的數字呢我想衛福部每個月都有定期公告那這些公告的數字哪裡來的就如同我剛剛說的是醫院自填的請問一下醫院自填會不會有失真欠缺公信力的問題所以這邊我們想要請部長可不可以建立一個查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
698.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
724.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
醫院所填報過來的護病筆的資料我們現在已經有這個機制啦一個就是在那個護理那個爭議平台他可以來提我們也會處理這個就是第一個這個是屬於比較被動式的第二個呢我們有主動式的因為我們有三班護病筆的獎勵所以我們就會去查核他是不是真的有這樣的達標的情形所以那個我們有查核的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
725.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
742.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你們的查核機制其實都是來自於醫院的自填我現在是希望能夠有一個客觀不施政具有公信力的我們來講毒核的第二個毒性物質高護病比請問一下三班護病比什麼時候要入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
742.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
765.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們會朝這個方向努力我們不期待現在立刻馬上我們台灣民眾黨的版本已經進入進步二讀在去年12月12號我們不期待現在立刻馬上但我們期待的是給壓一個日期讓我們護理人員能夠望梅止渴有一個繼續往前動的一個動力也不要讓職場人力越流失越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
767.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
795.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我記得那個賴清德總統在總統大選之前曾經說三班互併比兩年入法當時的時間點是2023年9月現在兩年已經過去顯然這張支票已經跳票了當時時任的衛福部部長也就是薛瑞元部長他也在總統大選前說互併比兩年會入法但選後再去問他他就說沒有規劃那這感覺就很像在欺騙護理人員的感情選前山盟海誓選後誤會一場 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
797.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
808.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
委員 容許我一小段跟你回應很感謝也很尊敬委員對護理人員這樣的一個在專業上給他們很多的建議給我們很多的指導從2008年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
811.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
830.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
藍丁格爾獎的舉辦就是我參與那個慈悅基金會的藍丁格爾獎所以我跟你們是一樣的我現在跟大家講的是說我們這個三班互聘比我們現在做的先把護理人員他的職登率把它提高提高其中還有一個方法我們希望考用的時候能夠比較合於實際 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
831.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
850.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
讓考試之後的人能夠增加我需要一個具體時間不用現在立刻馬上望梅止渴壓一個日期喔那部長不好意思因為你們都文質彬彬語速太慢我只剩下17分鐘後面還有一個豐富的一個困境的展現要呈現在大家眼裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
852.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
868.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我想推動的過程就是先把職登人員再往大提高衛福部或者是行政院對三班戶並比的態度就是延逸延逸再延逸我們護理人員就是等待等待再等待確實有獎勵的方式出來了真的是橫批是不是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
869.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
887.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
寫個衛福部無能四個字這才能反映出我們護理人員的心聲已經獎勵的方式出來了現在把人稅提高一定的程度再來處理好了獎勵是一個方式但不是最好的方式最好的方式是要開罰又或者是說要雙管齊下那我們台灣民眾黨剛剛已經提出來三班戶並比我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
888.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
888.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這個我剛剛提過啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
909.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
920.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
要這個入法之前應該先把怎麼入法要把它先理清楚那麼我們的回珠全世界很難有一個固定的固定的數字來做處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
928.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
953.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
因為所有醫院的屬性照護的強度是不一樣的所以人物法要處分它必須要一個明確的法律所以我們進入護理職場這條獨核的第二個獨性護職號D型請問一下 部長你知道我們的總統有曾經說過護理人員的心境護士的薪水有五萬請問你覺得心境護士的薪水有五萬嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
956.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
978.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
應該要看各個層級跟場域不同我想這個薪水大概只有夢里才有夢里才有五萬這個林靜儀部長次長林靜儀次長又說你們醫事人員不能做夢現在可能連夢里五萬也沒有了這個五萬的說法完全是被審計部的一個決算報告所打臉 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
978.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1005.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
因為審計部的決算報告提出來說護理人員新進的他們的月頭保薪資只有3.8萬所以打臉了你的學長邱太元部長說護理人員的薪水有7萬請問一下部長護理人員的薪水有7萬嗎你的版本是什麼我們看到5萬7萬數字眼花繚亂數字看起來很嚮往很羨慕總統還說很羨慕醫護人員那知道我們局內人其實是苦不堪言 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1007.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1012.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
跟委員說明您的這個檢報裡面出現的這個數字主要是來自於在醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1013.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1037.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我們這個部裡面有一個平台讓這個醫院他要求職的時候他要招募這個護理人員的時候他會把他的薪資條件拖在上面這些數字失真因為來自於自填所以他道歉了我們不要一個會道歉的衛福部我們要一個會做事的衛福部好那我們來討論低薪的問題如何解決剛剛部長您有提到護理費護理費有兩個問題第一個問題就是太低 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1040.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1060.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
第二個問題呢就是健保署給付護理費給醫院醫院有沒有把護理費的點值回饋到護理人員的身上這個無從得知所以我們在這邊想要請部長能夠建立一個監督醫院有把護理費回饋到護理人員薪水上的一個制度部長請問可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1060.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1087.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
有 去年就開始做了去年呢我們在調升這個護理費的時候就有個條件他的這個護理人員的薪資的薪籍頭髮薪資要提升所以這個我們已經建立這個機制公開透明因為我們護理界19萬大軍完全都覺得薪水的發放是一個黑箱所以可能要公開透明要揭示要公告要做好這個教育的宣導從去年開始調的這個護理費的部分包含在 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1087.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1109.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
你現在在講數字過低數字過低當然我有看到衛福部這幾年的努力數字確實有微幅的調整但是再講護理費回饋到護理人員的身上有沒有公開透明的機制再來當然我也有看到這裡要肯定一下衛福部就是說有看到對於低薪這個問題今年有發一些獎勵金 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1110.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1129.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
大致有三個一個就是三標護病比達標的獎勵金一個就是夜班津貼一個就是春節獎勵金但是其實這些獎勵金有幾個缺點第一個缺點杯水車薪第二個缺點延遲發放第三個缺點呢一樣如同我剛剛對護理費所提出來的一個批評指教就是說發放的方式不公開透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1130.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1150.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那當然我知道三班戶病比編列預算去年是16億那第一年發出是5.2億那事實上後來的資料慢慢的揭曉其實有些醫院拿到三班戶病比的一個達標的金額有些只拿到這個有5000多塊1000多塊800多塊還有195塊請問你發給醫院三班戶病比達標的獎勵金只有195塊可能連買一個便當都買不起請問這如何能夠達到一個獎勵的效果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1159.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1187.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
跟委員說明這個是一個奇怪的這個outlier啦應該這麼講因為我們有兩筆錢一筆呢是夜班津貼一班津貼是按據上班就有所以他不會出現這個數字我當然我講的是三班戶病比的獎勵金他的獎勵是根據你的收治病人的人數天數去乘以一個百分比出來所以這幾家醫院我都看過特別去查過他可能就一床 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1187.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1208.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
你們這些資料都是來自於病人所以他加成之後的百分比只能這樣所以我們現在已經重新檢討所以現在我們進入第二個題目第二個題目就是關於獎勵僅有延遲發放的問題去年十一十二月應該發的到現在還沒有發放已經進入三月進入四月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1209.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1234.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
所以請衛福部在獎勵金的發放上能夠快一點那至於你說的夜班津貼是在次次月的時候發放你發給醫院醫院再發給護理人員護理人員會經過一個還蠻漫長的等待所以衛福部這邊能不能夠監督把這個夜班獎勵金能夠加強一點發放的速度不會因為跟委員說明他現在已經變成是一個常規都是在次月的20號呢連同在健保申報的時候他會一起申報上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1235.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1261.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
但是你發給醫院醫院什麼時候發給護理人員這一段再請衛福部能夠來監督那好接下來蔣麗菁有一些黑歷史以前的蔣麗菁創造了黑歷史讓人家現在聽到蔣麗菁三個字就這個敬而未知怎麼說敬而未知呢蔣麗菁沒有專款專用拿去什麼買便當啊做護士服聚餐啊買辦公室的設備所以如果衛福部要發放蔣麗菁的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1263.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1287.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
請要有一個公開透明的機制機制建立出來讓我們知道獎勵金的流向可能護理人員才能夠安心也能夠取信於護理人員用途的部分我們是絕配都是用在護理人員身上所以請委員放心你們就是發問卷嘛問醫院你們用到哪邊去那答案也是來自於醫院那我們就是質疑說醫院會不會有失真欠缺控信利的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1288.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1309.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那請問一下這個請問一下部長怎麼看待因為去年健保署有發出一個風向就是醫事人員的月頭保薪資在醫院不能夠低於兩倍然後在診所不能夠低於1.5倍低於最低工資這樣的數字那如果低於就不能夠作為健保特約醫院的續約的要件這樣子那請問您是時任的 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1311.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1336.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
當時的這個署長所以這個就是您當初署放出來的風向那當然引起基層很大的喝采那我給你一個讚那我知道你可能也有承受來自醫院的壓力所以這個就無疾而終了那現在您從署長提升到這個部長的位置請問有換了位置換了腦袋嗎現在還是有想要主張這樣的一個想法嗎我們還是希望朝這個方向來努力保障這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1337.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1348.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我們這個護理人員的最基本的信息我知道但是具體的方案要出來否則再多的承諾聽起來都是空話護理人員聽起來完全都是到最後發現夢醒時分完全就是一場遊戲一場夢的感覺我們會持續來溝通啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1352.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1379.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
當然高薪需要經費的來源財源很重要那財源當然有來自於健保來自於公務預算來自於基金就這樣那我曾經寫過那衛福部下面有很多投書那我曾經寫過一個這個投書衛福部下面很多基金很多基金我也曾經寫過一個投書就是衛護理這個設基金來籌措人力的這個完整性那長照的這個人力也是用基金的方式來支應 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1380.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1391.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那所以我們有沒有可能來設置一個這個護理人力的基金待會去思考不用現在回答我我們現在進入了獨核的第三項毒性物質有請勞動部長洪森翰請勞動部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1396.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1422.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
好那我們呢護理人員勞動條件非常的差那勞動條件差的太陽部長請慢走沒關係我先鋪陳一下劇情因為時間真的非常有限那勞動條件差呢總共我自己羅列八大罪狀但是不只這八大因為時間有限我只羅列八大罪狀所以我想請問勞動那個勞動部長你對於護理人員勞動困境的情形有掌握嗎我先給你一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1424.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1439.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
這個提示啦先給你一個提示就是護理人員有超時工作的現象你應該比比皆是你應該了解嘛那超時工作又沒有拿到加班費你應該有掌握嘛那請問一下那個部長有掌握護理界所謂隱形工時的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1443.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1449.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
請問一下可不可以把隱形公食列為公食以行政函式的方式把隱形公食列為公食 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1460.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1477.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這部分我們可能要 可以來找這個醫療界來討論一下好 謝謝部長願意討論好 那除此之外呢就是我這邊肯定勞動部跟衛福部去年的時候有把護理人員參加繼續教育積分的課程上課的時間列為公式有用韓式的方式來處理 那護理人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1478.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1496.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
非常的非常的肯定那但是呢就是有些醫院並沒有按照這個韓式的方式去處理就是當護理人員他們想要把這段時間列為這個工時或者想請工假的時候醫院並沒有並沒有主動的來協助或接受所以勞動部是不是針對這一點能夠納入勞檢的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1500.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1509.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
跟委員說明其實我們在去年那其實也針對這個醫院有一些違反勞基法的狀況那其實我們有修了這個勞基法的這個通用那個我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1516.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1545.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
的有些加重處分的部分其實有把醫療中心跟區醫院其實都放進去所以我想該處罰的該檢查的我想我們都願意來處理好OK好謝謝那那個部長知道我們護理人員啊整天工作下來勞動條件差中午想吃飯休息時間30分鐘想享受都享受不到那想吃飯都吃不到只能夠喝珍珠奶茶那官員呢喝的是有為有守的珍珠奶茶我們護理界喝的是呢有苦有酸的珍珠奶茶 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1546.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1562.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
喝的是辛酸吃的是苦楚那請問一下這個休息時間看得到吃不到這個問題部長有打算怎麼處理嗎委員妳在講的是因為勞基法有規定那工作4小時要休息30分鐘妳講的是這個部分嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1564.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1592.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那護理人員會覺得說在這休息30分鐘他們其實還是一個stand by的狀況所以沒有辦法真的全心放鬆的休息那的確這個部分是在母法裡面是老心母法裡面訂的所以就是加強取締加強取締可以答應我加強取締有人可以聽我說明就是說可以 但是我只剩4分鐘的確針對工作4小時要休息30分鐘的規定在不同的業別會有不太一樣的情境的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1592.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1607.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
比方說在護理業大家會覺得說這休息30分鐘會覺得說其實無法真的全新的休息可是在某一些其他的業別沒有問題法律既然已經有規定了就加強取締那我們護理界還有所謂花花班的問題換班的間隔少於11個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1610.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1630.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
除此之外護理人員醫院僱主為了彈性運用人力所以想了一些光怪陸離的方式分別是待命、戒休跟跨科調動那我這邊想請問一下可不可以出一個函式把在家待命的時間在醫院待命的時間列為公時因為沒有列為公時護理人員就是在那邊苦等 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1630.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1650.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
再來另外一個關懷錄理的手段就是戒休所謂的戒休就是護理人員從早8點上班到4點可能中午12點就會被請回家說你先回家休息了因為我們沒病人了這個叫做戒休這個時間不是護理人員平白享受日後護理人員要把戒休這4小時還給醫院請問一下這個有沒有違反勞基法 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1652.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1666.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我跟委員說明其實委員你現在提到的不管是一些工時的問題跟休息的問題我認為我們其實都願意那包括在今天質詢之後來跟我們護理界來做一點討論就是說目前遇到哪些樣態那也跟醫院起來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1670.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1697.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我們的護理界有一個這個陋習叫做跨科調動因為護理人力缺乏所以A單位缺人就調B單位去我們護理界曾經發生一個悲劇就是在2011年的時候有個護理師在他任職的八天以內新到任八天以內被A單位調到B單位B單位調到C單位最後不堪壓力燒炭自殺這是我們護理界的悲劇也是我們胸口的痛那請問一下跨科調動這件事衛福部勞動部有沒有掌握開罰的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1700.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1704.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
數據我可能還要再調一下數據但是那我跟部長講你永遠調不到數據因為跨科調動是一個違法的事那沒有罰則所以請部長這邊能夠來協助推動違法跨科調動的罰則 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1716.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1732.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那最後呢我覺得我們會需要跟衛福部這邊討論一下因為關於這個護理業內有一些專業的型態的樣態這的確會需要跟衛福部討論剛剛部長一直提到一個通報平台這個通報平台呢上去申訴的人有四千違反勞基法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1733.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1760.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
兩天最後開罰的是五百件裁罰率是16%當然勞動部這邊有一些裁罰的統計那目前查到有過去五年有六百多件那我想這是冰山一角可能也只是黑數那也有望也期待部長這邊能夠再盡量的在勞檢的時候能夠再雷力風行然後能夠加強取定那所以我們這邊請問除了說專案勞檢之外能不能再擴大醫院的專案勞檢這是我們的訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
1762.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
1777.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那我最後總結一下就是說請衛福部這個林靜儀市長就說你們這些醫事人員小腦袋我們按了按鈕問題就能夠全部解決了嗎那我覺得衛福部沒有按按鈕 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
1778.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
1800.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
而是按兵不動對於護理勞動權益的改善按兵不動我這邊有四顆按鈕大膽按下去我想問題是可以獲得某個程度的緩解第一個是提供資料第二個是建立機制第三個是給行政函式第四個是擴大勞檢那提供資料部分就是勞動部跟衛福部勞動衛福部的部分請給我們全日平均戶併比的開發資料還有呢可不可以給我們一 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
1801.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
1830.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
月頭保薪資作為依據的護理人員的平均薪資因為我們想知道護理的薪水到底多少是五萬嗎七萬嗎還是其他的數字建立機制就是護病比查核的機制不要讓醫院水口說了算護理費獎勵金的公開透明機制請建立起來行政函式請針對隱形工時還有在家待命在醫院待命的工時都把它列為真正可以拿到薪水的工時那最後就是我剛剛跟部長所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
1831.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
1831.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
擴大專案勞檢以上 質詢謝謝 |