| IVOD_ID |
167327 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167327 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-29T10:34:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-29T10:47:36+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a886c843c8269d02a736bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b75a5986f83a3d5885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡其昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:34:27 - 10:47:36 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。
二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】） |
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謝謝主席請交通部陳部長 觀光署陳署長陳部長 陳署長委員部長早 署長早 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
16.895 |
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36.365 |
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今天這個主席安排了發展觀光條例的修法針對發展觀光條例本席有幾條條文要來進行這些修正那因為這個條文我本席今天就不講但是我講的跟這個條文多多少少有一點關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.869 |
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51.726 |
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我們都知道這個觀光對台灣的觀光而言這個不管是觀光的數字這個觀光產業的榮枯其實跟兩條軸線很大的關係一條就是英鎊 一條就是歐鎊 |
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53.308 |
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73.16 |
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那看起來澳邦的部分就是在服務澳邦的這些旅行社等等看起來應該是狀況不差因為我們可以看得到包括從韓國的統計數據從日本的統計數字來看台灣人都變成人家的這個財神爺了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
74.776 |
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98.184 |
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所以對我們的出國的旅客而言其實我們的狀態其實是相當不錯的但是反過來來台灣的旅客看起來狀況還有很大的努力空間那當然在台灣的旅行而言除了外國人來之外國旅也是很重要的一個部分 |
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99.502 |
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126.296 |
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那其實這個是老生常談這個在交通委員會這麼長的時間我想每一個階段我們的國旅都面臨不同的挑戰那也曾經好過但現在此刻的狀態看起來是不好那這個不好呢其實我沒有辦法給你標準答案但我覺得觀光研訓院要成立之後我認為觀光研訓院應該給大家答案 |
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127.096 |
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147.575 |
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什麼意思呢 譬如說現在我認為很不利的你在所有的社群平台上你都可以去發現這個有錢人出國有錢人留在台灣 窮人出國那這個意思就是要告訴大家說國旅是比出國更貴的旅行 |
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148.683 |
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173.246 |
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那這個已經是既定印象你只要看在社群平台上你只要PO這種文的下面大概都留言量那一則的PO文流量都特別的大那下面的PO文都可以看出來大家看起來多數是同意這種說法所以這個其實是一個既定的刻板印象而且這個刻板印象對國旅是非常不利的所以 |
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174.414 |
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203.883 |
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交通部或觀光署要怎麼去扭轉這個刻板印象我認為這個其實是很關鍵的那這個刻板印象源自於哪裡源自於大家會覺得譬如說國旅的飯店國旅的這個旅宿很貴那更源頭可能從墾丁開始更源頭可能從墾丁開始那這個就是過去本席一直在提到對於觀光飯店有貴有中價位也有便宜 |
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204.741 |
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223.343 |
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可是大家會普遍沒有特別在數據上做管理的印象也就是只要網路有人PO一張很個案型的照片 個案的案例說你看 食物這個一點點什麼東西 夜市買來的什麼東西就要多少錢 |
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224.801 |
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250.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
拍了一張房間的照片然後就告訴大家你看我花了多少錢然後下面就一大堆留言說你這個錢我已經可以去Okinawa我已經可以去日本了其實就這樣 那個案我不是說PO的人不對啦我的意思只是告訴你們說或許那一個PO的人是對的他也無心要打擊誰只是作為一個消費者他覺得這樣很貴可是這個一個個案就會變成久而久之就會變成普遍的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
251.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
275.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那觀光署的重點在哪裡當然啦 有人賣得很貴然後貴跟便宜又有個人感受的問題又有他其他周邊服務到底含不含瓜在這個價格裡面可是久而久之大家就會普遍覺得都是這麼貴所以什麼叫數字管理就是資料的收集對觀光署而言到底每一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
287.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
國旅重點時刻到來每一個地區它的訂房狀況中價位 價位到哪裡高價位 價位到哪裡低價位 平均房價到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
288.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
310.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
其實這個對消費者而言就是最好去對抗個案因為統計數據我們不會有啊而且對觀光署而言或許你也不夠及時啊你或許自己也對這個資訊的掌握也不足啊所以我只是提供一個就以科學的數據統計數據來面對我們國旅很多的消費者的個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
312.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
332.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這樣才有辦法跟大家跟社會說明你不說明長期一個個案一個個案累積最後就約定署程最後就形成刻板印象最後就是告訴大家有錢的人才能留在台灣國旅窮人最好出國因為出國比較便宜但事實上出國真的比較便宜嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
333.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
359.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個也要看地區 看時間要看他要求的服務品質來論斷所以我想全世界都是如此台灣有台灣的好 國外有國外的好這個沒有辦法 蘋果跟橘子是沒有辦法放在同一個天平來比較但為什麼會被台灣的國旅會變成被污名化這麼嚴重我覺得這個是觀光署真的要認真去思考那接下來你又有光源訓練院的成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
360.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以公園心願對於這樣的問題到底要怎麼解方是什麼我提的只有一個你這數字的公佈就客觀數字的統計公佈讓大家的預期可以怎麼去處理他接下來的旅行到底要出國還是要留在台灣這個可控部長跟署長你們覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
407.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
報告員您剛剛的那個建議我剛剛也跟署長講您上一頁的那個建議應該要把它拿下來好好來討論一下真的是應該各種數據都讓民眾能夠接觸的到能夠理解的到這個是比較持平的方式才不會大家用刻板的印象去對國旅有不好的一些想法所以部長你是支持所以我們應該集結不只是我建議這一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
409.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
436.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
在署裡面有那麼多的優秀的文官你們應該要認真去思考面對到底國旅是什麼因為不能只在知緯末節啦這個補助一下那個辦個活動 放個煙火其實這個在結構上我覺得現在國旅是很不利的那個刻板印象是非常深刻強烈的那第二個啊像我都覺得像署長你曉得齁我看了一個東西我就覺得很有趣啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
437.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
455.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們的環境部在推綠色旅遊網頁你有看到這個環境部的這個活動嗎你曉得這個活動嗎 觀光署曉得嗎署長或者其他同仁曉得嗎環境部有在推綠色旅遊網頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
457.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
474.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們跟環境部一直有保持跟綠色旅遊的這塊的一些合作跟聯繫一直都有好 那其實如果這分兩個層次現在看起來觀光署是知道的那我的意思就是說觀光署竟然知道觀光署對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
476.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
495.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
環保標章的環境部認證環保標章旅行社有26家嘛其實占比很低啦連1%都不到只有0.6而已那它裡面去區分嘛它列了一些條件然後列了一些旅行該具備什麼什麼然後給你什麼叫做金級銀級銅級這樣加起來總共只有26家 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
523.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那如果大家因為我看到了新的修法也提到行政院也提到叫永續觀光環境部現在在做的透過環保標章的旅行社推這個綠色旅遊觀光署你們覺得這件事情讓環境部在推綠色旅遊你覺得這個合理嗎或者說這個認證你們要不要跟環境部好好討論一下這個認證是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
525.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
跟委員報告委員觀察的確實是事實但是現在其實不是只有環境部在推綠色旅遊各部會都在推綠色旅遊因為就是現在的顯學那署長那我作為一個旅行社或者觀光飯店那我到底要申跟你中華民國政府申請多少的認證標章因為你說各部會都在推嘛所以我環境部要申請一次我觀光署要申請一次我不知道還有其他哪一個部也在推啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
554.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
560.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那我到底我要怎麼證明我是國家認證我是永續旅遊綠色旅遊或者什麼旅遊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
562.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
588.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這件事情現在也是我們跟環境部正在溝通的地方我們能推的是綠色旅遊但是呢 標章這件事情我們建議還是由環境部來處理大家才有一致的標準那現在 觀光署因為推的還是郵程嘛所以我們會再去集合一下各部會再推有關綠色旅遊的這個項目再集中起來好啦 我的意思就是說你們 觀光署 我講在交通委員會二十年來 太多的認證 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
591.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
615.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
太多的認證每一次認證一大堆的認證鼓勵業者來申請申請完之後他在市場上到底能不能創造現金流其實我都高度懷疑就像搞這個律師認證你看只有26家26家認證佔比0.6%在旅行社的佔比0.6%那好就算 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
617.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
636.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我第一個問題是政府要不要統合不要讓大家到處在申請認證第二個 好 我申請認證完之後認證跟不認證到底有什麼差異業者很辛苦 經營很辛苦了國旅都已經這麼差了我還要花錢去認證認證完之後還接不到生意 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
637.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
661.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以當我們要辦一個認證第一個先整合你們先談好誰要來做這個認證第二個誰要來做這個行銷就是你要讓大家區隔說我很認真在推永續推綠色然後過了之後只要拿到認證於是乎我會吸引一大票的人讓大家知道我就是全台灣最綠色或者最永續的旅行社 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
662.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
687.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你如果不做這個他只是又多一個認證標章又擾民 又讓業者要申請申請太少 公安署又沒有面子所以要趕快去督促大家趕快來申請不然我再編一個預算認證什麼補助什麼補助然後認證完之後其實也找不到生意署長 你懂我的意思啦部長 懂我的意思所以第一個 先做好整合第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
688.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
710.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
把認證後面的整個行銷的規劃一併做好這樣不就不讓大家說你講故事大家又推什麼認證我就覺得很煩了啦業者都覺得很煩好不好最後一個啊部長那個我們持續在委員會裡面爭取台中機場的這個新的航線那我們很謝謝這個我們很謝謝這個星宇嘛在 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
715.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
735.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個夏季的航班裡面又多了這個東京跟熊本東京跟熊本那今年本期要推動建議的那麼多的新的航點還有沒有可能有其他的點因為時間很有限來簡單回答我就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
735.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
750.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
今年因為夏季班表冬季夏季班表3月剛剛委員講到這個那當然之前我們也再持續看看日本的部分還有沒有再新增的可能機會 現在機會很大你知道嗎中國因為不飛了 那個機場啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
752.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
779.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
運量就會下來下來就剛好台灣補進去這個時候不搶 機會很難東京每一個點都那麼熱那其實不只東京像東南亞也是像台中很多希望飛曼谷或者是像比較遠一點像雜黃 北海道這些其實都可以考慮 好不好那另外那個華信不要忘記你們答應我了 華信新的飛機華航撥過來之後要有一台來飛台中的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
780.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
784.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
到時候要飛哪裡我們再商量一下再一看市場的需求 |