| IVOD_ID |
16728 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16728 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-04T08:30:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-04T14:31:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
06:00:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e49a83869710b50b79e2506b9d78cd73cfdab1a38f0d348c00c3d61714df2b3025ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、本院台灣民眾黨黨團，有鑑於行政院主計總處行文各縣市政府，將中央編列給地方政府的一般性補助款自114年度5至12月份分配及撥付數全數改為未分配數，已嚴重違反立法院通案刪減、促進政府資源有效配置之決議精神。中央政府預算編列浮濫，原編列三兆一千億元，立法院通案刪減後仍有二兆九千億餘元之數，為中華民國史上最高之中央政府總預算，本院本於職責審議預算，以督促中央政府增進財務效能、減少不當經濟支出甚至浪費之目的，中央政府不思檢討如何有效節用分配資源，卻意圖慷地方政府之慨，緊縮一般性補助款補助事項，將直轄市、準用直轄市規定之縣及縣（市）基本財政收支差短與定額設算之教育、社會福利及基本設施等改為未分配數，此舉不僅違反原預算刪減提案之意旨，更將嚴重影響地方財政及運作，對地方長期建設造成劇烈衝擊。爰建請院會作成決議：「行政院主計總處應依立法院審議中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案通案刪減之決議意旨，由中央各機關及所屬編列之預算刪減調整，並立即將一般性補助款足額撥付予地方政府。」請公決案。【本案如經院會復議，則不予審查】
二、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲、內政部劉部長世芳及法務部就「近十年中央政府依財政收支劃分法、地方制度法等地方政府之補助情形及對均衡地方經濟發展之成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:31 - 14:31:00 |
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好 請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員與出法定人數現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2034.656 |
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2061.593 |
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立法院第十一屆第三會期財政委員會第十四次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年五月二十八日星期三九十一分至十二時四十分地點群雄樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福委員等十四人列席委員政政前委員等九人列席官員金管會主委彭金榮暨所屬相關人員財政部中央銀行司法院法務部等單位代表主席賴昭吉委員會員報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2063.034 |
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2089.447 |
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決定議事錄確定討論事項1審查國際金融業務條例8案1本院委員沈芳惠等18人委員鍾嘉斌等17人分別擬據國際金融業務條例第13條第22條之7級第22條之16條文修正草案等二案2行政院行情審議本院委員李坤成等20人委員陳金輝等16人委員郭國文等19人委員羅廷偉等17人委員陳玉珍等16人 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2090.387 |
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2118.654 |
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分別擬聚國際金融業務條例第22條之16條文修正草案等6案2審查證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法9案1行政案函請審議本院委員鍾嘉斌等20人委員李坤成等19人委員沈發慧等18人分別擬聚證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法部分條文修正草案等4案2本院委員林楚英等17人委員王洪維等19人委員郭國文等18人委員賴世保等32人 |
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2119.594 |
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2140.29 |
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分別擬具證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第十條之一條文修正草案等四案三本院委員民失明等十八人擬具證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第十條之一及第二十條條文修正草案案討論事項個案合併詢答經委員審發會林楚英說明提案要旨監管會主委彭金龍就行政院提案 |
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2141.25 |
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2157.759 |
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報告及回應委員、提案後紀委員、林德福等14人提出質詢均經經管會彭主委、財團法案證券投資人及其後交易保護人保護中心張董事長及財政部副稅屬宋署長及相關人員予以答覆決議依說明及詢討完畢 |
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2159.724 |
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2180.244 |
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二 委員質詢局答覆請補充資訊 請鄉安部會議週內已書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定三 委員 林楚怡 廖先祥 邱志偉所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請鄉安部會議書面答覆四 討論事項 個案均另則其繼續審查 宣讀完畢好 報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2182.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2189.603 |
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我們要確定議事錄前各位有沒有無疑沒有疑我們確定請議事委員宣讀今日的議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2191.499 |
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2217.692 |
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包四項二 邀請行政院主席總書陳主席長熟知財政部莊部長翠雲內政部劉部長釋芳及法務部就近十年中央政府依《財政收支劃分法》《地方制度法》等地方政府之補助情形及對均衡地方經濟發展之成效進行專庭報告並被質詢討論事項審查本院台灣民眾黨黨團拟據立即將一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2218.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2235.06 |
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主流波幅與地方政府之提案如復建請供決案宣讀完畢好 我們介紹在場的委員跟與會政府的觀念請各位媒體的帥哥美女可以不可以讓我們開會好不好你們拍的時間也夠長了請好不好 讓我們開會請議事人員來幫忙一下維持會長秩序 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2250.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2255.018 |
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後面有幾個帥哥你們拿你們的相機是不是能夠往後推一下謝謝我們介紹在場委員與會的政府長官首先李坤祥委員吳秉瑞委員賴慧媛委員鍾嘉斌委員黃珊珊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2280.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2302.81 |
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林伯虎委員 楊世堅委員 郭國偉委員 徐巧興委員政府的官員這部分 我們今天因為力氣的官員比較多 我們就介紹部委首長主計總署陳主計長 財政部莊部長 |
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2307.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2335.049 |
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其他各單位的主管就請各位自行參與內政部的吳次長法務部的洪司長立法院預算中心的陳主任立法院法治局第四組的助理研究員楊研究員台北市政府的李華副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2337.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2359.366 |
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新北市政府副市長 劉鶴蘭副市長桃聯市政府溫立署長以及是台中市政府的鄭副市長台南市政府的葉副市長新竹縣政府主席處黃處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2364.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2389.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
牟利縣政府邱副縣長彰化縣政府的周副縣長南北縣主計署的陳副處長雲林縣政府的曾秘書長嘉義縣政府的呂副處長屏東縣政府的郭副處長財稅局的莊副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2394.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2418.906 |
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宜蘭縣的吳秘書長花蓮縣的曾副處長以及台東縣政府的岳副處長金門縣佐科長 佐紀處佐科長連江縣秘書張秘書新一農市政府財政處的謝處長新竹市的張秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2425.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2432.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
嘉義市政府的阮處長高雄市財政局的陳局長好現在呢 |
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2442.174 |
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2459.721 |
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經理審安排第一個審查審查本院台灣民眾黨米據立即將一般性補助款逐額撥付給地方政府的提案如復建這個很長我就不念了第二個邀請行政院主計總書陳主計長淑芝 |
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2463.983 |
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2487.912 |
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財政部中央部長翠雲 內政部劉部長施芳及法務部就10年中央政府依財政修飾法文法地方制度法等地方政府補助進行及對均衡地方經濟發展的成效進行專題報告現在好來請 請程旭萬就登記吧要登記要登記要程旭萬登記來 |
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2523.459 |
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2525.141 |
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主席各位同仁今天這個會議違法違憲一開始 |
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2541.82 |
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2567.686 |
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就是預算已經審查通過本院已經刪除了900多億的預算裡面304億是明擺的指出要在哪裡刪除另外636億美其名叫做統三啦新發明的名詞說叫行政院自喜調整那行政院也已經依法調整了調整完了之後 |
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2569.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2593.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
現在本院有一些黨團就已經經過總統公告之後的預算在拿會來說現在馬上要播這根本就違反了憲法權力分立的原則有一個莫名其妙的會議他有一句俗稱的事情都已經到了末端了之後你還要回到源頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2595.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2608.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這樣子的會議 主席今天召開這樣的會議我們非常的不能了解那請問今天這個會議 關於那個討論事項要如何進行呢所以我建議今天這個會議不要開啦 違法違憲的會議嘛預算要求行政院統申636億是誰要求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2619.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2636.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
是藍白多數的立法院黨團要求的預算已經升了升了是很爽快對外面講說你看我們比賽誰升多少結果現在要求行政院自行調整636億行政院依照這個決議調整了也經過公告了你現在講說你們這個調整不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2643.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2671.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那是這樣子 中了芭蕉又怨芭蕉啊國民黨跟民眾黨刪了預算之後現在擔心各界反彈地方的責任因為面對大罷免所以又趕快拿出這個方法想要掩飾今天開這個會議純粹就是為了要掩飾你們亂搞的結果嘛所以 這種違法人性的會議我是讓他不能夠再繼續開下去好了 這兩分鐘到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2675.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2697.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
請繼續講我再跟你問個這個問題我現在回答你回答我們對話這個是院會交下來的案子院會表決後他的決議舉手表決說這個案子交互財政委員會審查這是院會交下來的案子前面那些話 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2698.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2714.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我都尊重你啦但是願位交下來會議起到了我就有權利所以你就是利用藍白多數的立法用浩港維新的事情嘛你們自己刪了預算現在在利用這種方法想要來掩飾因為你們無法面對大罵臉所以想要掩飾你們刪除了責任這個扯淡人喔因為畢竟有人擁有言論為是主計主注 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2727.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2746.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
租金行政院違法刪除地方政府的一份補助款是違法刪除 它並沒有公告 總統沒有公告這個636億的刪除地方補助款總統沒有公告這個預算已經公告預算過 有人沒636億 叫人家自行調整自行調整 那人家自行調整不行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2748.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2766.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我不是管你不要擔心大爆點在那邊想要掩飾什麼亂打大爆點沒有關係啦這個就是事後想要那邊好好留神道 尊重道義氣好啦 謝謝 尊重道義氣我們下一位請這個吳平下一位請 宗教評委員 請 抱怨 請就繼續講吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2781.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2792.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
陳旭發也沒有什麼截止登記的後面的人要講登記啊你今天排這個案子就是要來吵架的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2793.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2818.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
沒有人跟你吵架 誰跟你吵架啊你如果拍一個違法違憲的案子 怎麼弄這個是立法院交辦給我的 什麼叫吵架呢立法院拿百多數就可以違法違憲嗎啊 運匯交辦來給我運匯交辦來 百多數就可以違憲嗎不是 運匯交下來給我 我就拍你找我呢 你怎麼找我呢你要找院長啊 院長交辦下來的啊那這是違憲的事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2823.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2826.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主席 程序之前先一個權益問題 先停一下因為我們現在拿到的出席人員名單我覺得對於今天來列席的包括地方邀請到的政府官員這樣不太禮貌因為剛剛主席在介紹的時候很難得他們能來 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2849.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2869.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那沒有名字沒有列在我們的這個列席名單當中是不是可以議事人員補一下因為我們立法院根據憲法的規定邀請政府人員到這裡應我們討論事情要詢問你是指其他單位嗎對啊就沒有啊我都念了 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2870.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2889.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
有唸了但是我們手上沒有名單我剛剛聽了來不及知道有哪些地方政府的人員來我可以補一個完整的啦這樣對人家邀請來的地方政府人員比較禮貌啊好不好 可以啦 這權益問題因為我剛剛對了一下 譬如說新北市的政府上面沒有列明啊好不好 那麼請醫事人員補一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2896.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2913.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
針對今天的議事日程我們有報告事項是要請財政部主計總署內政部來就近十年中央政府依財政收支劃分法地方制度法等地方政府之補助情形對均衡地方經濟發展的成效的專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2914.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2941.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
並被質詢本席對於這樣的議程安排竟表同意因為呢我們很關心新版的裁判法明年之後會對於中央地方造什麼樣衝擊所以願意來聽聽相關政府官員的說明那麼地方政府的官員如果被邀請來委員詢問的時候呢我們也歡迎您來表示意見但是今天的討論事項成如剛剛我們吳平樂委員所說的其實這個討論事項呢根本就是違法違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2943.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2968.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這個討論事項我們來看一下當時我們明明白白的看到這一個提案藍白立委的提案在朝野先生提出來而且也多數做成決議了他說如總三減數未達939億7500萬元定於補足就是要行政院自己想辦法三到足夠939億 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2970.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2975.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
行政院也按照立法院的決議做了我們一是不在意 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2976.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3002.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
如果可以復議 也投付復議解決復議也搞啦 行政院也提復議了告訴立法院的決議呢 行政院做不到立法院還是堅持維持原決議那立法院都做完了 那我們有什麼立場今天立法院還要說要求行政院再進行調整我們預算法第11條 政府預算每一塊金額都辦理一次預算法第25條 不得於預算所定之外動用公款 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3003.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3019.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
預算法第52條立法院就預算所為之附帶決議應由各該機關單位參照法令辦理現在行政院參照法令辦理而且當時這個草原上的決議呢它是決議喔總預算決議喔所以我說今天啊我們今天這個會議呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3020.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3048.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
三減中央政府總預算致使中央跟地方施政失靈的是藍白的立委那今天又藍白多數在院會做成決議做成一個決議要求財委會來處理財委會沒有立場處理所以我是建請我們主席今天我們的程序問題第一報告事項我覺得我們可以來聽聽到底這十年來中央跟地方在財政上我們怎麼樣來因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3050.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3075.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
但是討論事項接受本院院會的交付決議來進行處理這個與法無懼敬請主席這個議程討論事項不宜進行不然的話我們會希望按照議事規則來就今天的議事程序進行處理 以上好 謝謝第二位的中交批委員的執行發言第三位李坤城委員執行發言請 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3085.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3109.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
謝謝主席今天的議程分兩個一個是專案報告財政部主席出來做的專案報告第二個是討論事項那我們認為說這個討論事項是違法跟違憲為什麼因為我們在今年的1月21號立法院已經通過啦已經通過總預算啦通過總預算也被刪掉了也被在野黨刪掉了2076億 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3112.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3125.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
其中還要求行政院要自行刪除940億這都是立法院的決議耶那其實行政院已經跟立法院講了啊那統刪940億 其中636億你要跟我講刪哪裡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3130.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3152.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
立法院講不出來要刪哪裡啊 立法院講不出來要刪哪裡 那行政院沒有辦法啦那行政院好 那我們就說好 那要有136億那我們就來一般性的補助款來做處理一切都是按照立法院的決議啊 一切都按照立法院的決議結果立法院說不行 你這違法沒有啊 今天開了這個會議 才是違法或違憲啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3155.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3182.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
其實行政院已經有想出解方了但是立法院就沒有遵守嘛第一個已經有提出復議了這個行政院呢是在這個三月初的時候二月二十七號的時候提出復議但是我們自己立法院呢在三月十二號的時候這個復議呢遭到否決這是第一個如果那時候提出復議立法院在野黨也覺得說哎呀 三年預算升得太多了636億也不知道在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3184.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3205.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
如果在那時候 副議員如果讓他通過的話 今天又不會有這場會議了那第二個呢 就是說我們民進黨團在5月15號然後行政院在5月21號 已經提出釋憲了那我們就看釋憲的結果是怎麼樣 再來討論說接下來要怎麼處理嘛所以有兩個機會啦 一個是提副議 一個是提釋憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3207.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3220.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那何不等待說事情的結果出來之後再來做處理咧只不過現在就要做處理而且現在所有行政院都是按照立法院的決議啊有因有果啊 不要倒果為因啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3229.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3249.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這個我再強調一遍這個是立法院的院會交辦下來的一個案子交辦下來的案子我是依據立法院的院會的結果他交辦他的結果就是交給財政委員會審查然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3250.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3251.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
謝謝 謝謝主席我想喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3277.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3300.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這個我們都知道很多地方的縣市今天首長院都在忙副首長來甚至於裡面這個直接跟財政相關的各處長各局長都來共襄盛舉因為我們都知道地方這個財政不足需要仰賴中央的補助那以我們過去的慣例 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3302.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3322.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
幾乎啦只要統三就是要行政院自行調整那主計長過去從來沒有像你這個樣子自行調整他是把一般補助款是排除結果你現在把他一般補助款把他列在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3324.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3352.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
過去都是讓你自行來彈性調整這個是讓你們方便結果你方便你把這個可以方便的部分拿來做文章我認為喔過去從來沒有主計長像你這個樣子講實在話我在財委會也相當久我跟羅明財是最資深的從來沒有像你這個樣子因為喔這是過去的慣例啊讓你方便你現在變成把方便拿來做操作 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3354.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3379.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這是非常要不得啊那不然以後我們刪減的話每項都把你刪對不對讓你方便你自己感覺不希望方便從來沒有像你這個樣子所以說你要是未來想說我們竹筆把你做處理那可以啊沒有問題啊對不對從來沒有像你這樣的主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3381.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3403.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
對不對 那你很多地方像他們的教育啦地方的教育 社會福利啦 一些基本設施你就故意拿這個來砍我認為這樣好嗎對不對 全國人民都在看欸過去從來沒有發生這樣的問題只有你來 才這個問題一直在發生真的 你自己齁 好好的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3406.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3433.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
謝謝 等一下喔關於談到違法的問題 我要講一下剛才執政黨的委員一直在講到說已經涉到 還沒涉到因為砍地方政府的一般補助款就是違法因為總預算已經通過了總預算通過的時候一般補助款一毛錢都沒有砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3434.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3449.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
一毛錢都沒有砍 總預算的時候一般補助款一毛錢都沒有砍第二個 財劃法到現在為止也已經總統府公佈了財劃法30條第三項也講得很清楚補助款不能夠比去年少 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3450.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3459.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
雙重違法這很清楚看得到所以是有討論的空間不是沒有那我是本質大家說參會會我們一向的氣溫都非常的和諧大家來這裡我不是來吵架的因為今天院會沒有交給我這個案子我不會拍這個案子因為交下來這個案子我拍這個案子所以既然各位這麼有爭議的話我們休息五分鐘好不好討論 輪到我發言了休息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3480.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3481.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
休息吧 休息 再來 再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3509.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3531.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好 繼續講 這兩分鐘 阿寶來 請主席不要 你叫我兩聲道啦去年的預算編列的時候 你現在講的這個法律都還沒有通過所以去年的預算不是用今年通過的這個法律而且這個法律有違憲的嫌疑 現在還在申請釋憲當中所以你叫我兩聲道 今天他剛才林德福說 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3532.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3539.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
剛剛這個組織長說的這個事情以前的組織長都說不會就是因為以前的多數黨沒有在這個地方違法違憲嘛今天就是藍白立委在立法院多數違法違憲才會遇到這個問題嘛董事長我們都在財政委員會這麼久啦你說喔 預算你要一個一個刪除我告訴你 現在你如果報36億要統刪的部分你要刪哪裡嘛 你講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3560.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3568.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
立法院沒有能力去刪除金券的預算丟一個決議說900多億反正你給我刪到夠是你自己不負責任我跟你講今天台灣政治的僵局非要用大罷免大成功才能夠解決啦因為你南北利用你立法院的多數要欺壓行政權要篡奪要破壞中華民國的憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3590.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3596.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這種的喔 追證有夠罵的啦要來做聯邦議員以前有一個先去了解 先去討論啦對憲法的制度都不了解然後來立法院亂搞利用多數決議侵害行政權 殺害整個昭和民國憲法這是什麼樣子的狀況所以 你去登記啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3616.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3632.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
主席 我在這邊提出喔 今天這個黑暗法案先不開也罷 三位動議 請你立刻處理我剛才宣布休息 你要叫我來休息還休息還沒開始玩 三位動議啊三位動議啊 先來處理啊三位動議啊 三位動議就要先啦三位動議就要先啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3644.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3648.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
法定人數不可以刪減啊你們自己不懂法定人數可以刪減嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3652.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3670.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我們的預算通過 法定預算是不能刪減的耶檢疫裡面寫說法定預算那些刪的都是你們亂刪的啦我們真的沒有給地方政府的補助啦民眾政府你們亂刪的啦國民黨刪了預算 國民黨刪了預算法定預算是不能刪減的是法定預算不然請找國民黨我們日本人不算賬 請找國民黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3686.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3691.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
國民黨 國民黨 國民黨砍了兩千零七十六億六百三十六億 都是 都是國民黨生的原有的政府組 去找國民黨算賬 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3701.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3718.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
民進黨 居然找國民黨算帳 也找民眾黨算帳民進黨 這麼怕他們違法任期的事實被刪走嗎你們沒有種預算了 預算在1月21號就被你們在野黨刪掉了一切現在的行政就是毀掉立法院的決議來做鼓勵我會議請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3726.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3750.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
你們民進黨那麼怕面對你們委員法亂記的事實上今天你看各個縣市都派了代表來了今天重臥嘛 請勿那個聲音嘛現在是什麼程序現在是我們財政委員會在發言啊現在是我們財政委員會在發言啊現在是我們財政委員會在發言啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3754.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3760.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我們沒有要求砍地方政府的預算喔地方政府預算是法定預算依法不得檢驗喔請遵守法律喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3772.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3792.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
主計單位行政院不遵守法律那是法定預算是不能刪減的喔法定預算現在是休息時間嘛你們要講我們就來講啊你們說別人違法違憲裡面我們通過預算明明就規定我們刪除的就是沒有地方證補助的部分我們裡面就是沒有砍地方證的部分我們砍的就是各所破壞我們只有各位認被的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3800.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3805.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這個才是違法的你們面對民眾為甚麼不開會面對民眾那如果大家意見不一樣就是開會討論啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3817.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3831.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
大家意見不一樣就開會討論啊大家意見不一樣就看他的選票是不分區的啊哪有全國不分區啊全國不分區啊這樣你看不起不分區立委喔宗家編你看不起不分區喔民主你讓大家講話你們散什麼會你看不起不分區立委宗家編你看不起不分區立委喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3846.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3866.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
中加兵看不起不分區的立法委員喔中加兵看不看大家意見不一樣 那大家就討論啊在這邊公開的理性辯論啊你又要站起來 你又不要摔麥克風喔不要再摔麥克風喔 那個要賠喔你上次有沒有賠 上次有沒有賠吳秉銳你麥克風上次賠了沒有吳秉銳 上次你麥克風賠了沒有要不要再摔一次麥克風吳氏又沒有在這裡 將來給你弄一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3874.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3895.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
你那個麥克風不要再摔了 我很害怕民進黨砍了各個縣市政府 特別是跟人民有關的社福預算砍了教育預算砍了基礎建設的這個預算 對不起人民今天還要讓話不能開今天各個縣市政府的代表都來了他們怎麼辦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3900.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3925.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
立法院是一個鎖法的地方民進黨違法亂紀我們在審預算的時候清清楚楚講中央級所屬機關結果他們竟然去砍地方裁判法說不能夠比去年來少行政院違法亂紀還不在這開會對不起縣市政府對不起人民民進黨對不起人民全國不分歧啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3927.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3931.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
妳看不起部分區的立委啊部分區在哪裡?這裡的部分區都有開會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3933.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3941.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
吳征的臉書 明明白白在七年...吳征的臉書在一月...我來講一下吳征的臉書 一月二十一號有寫喔 總會算三點裡頭他把地方政府沒有刪掉也列在他的臉書裡頭民進黨的臉書 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3958.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3978.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
吳徵寫的喔 你們在1月21號預算通過的時候1月21號 對 我們1月20通過嘛1月21號的臉書 地方性補助款是沒有刪除的喔民進黨的臉書 大家回去看一下他說藍白刪除的是這個橘色的藍白刪除的就是沒有地方性補助的 這是民進黨的臉書啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3980.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4006.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
整體越變越嚴 今天為什麼要上會你們不敢討論是不是來開一下你們自己的臉書你們黨的臉書啊對不對我們沒有刪除地方政府的預算是今天行政單位違法的去執行的這件事情如果你們意見跟我們不一樣如果你們意見跟我們不一樣的話那我們大家就來辯論啊來一場辯論啊 幹嘛要上會是害怕是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4008.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4033.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這是民進黨 也是行政院講的為了要遵守憲法不能讓違憲的後裔開下去不能殺 不能砍我們要守護憲法 守護憲法要遵守法律吧 遵守法律吧你要不要算一下麥克風你上次賠了沒有你上次麥克風賠了沒有你上次你上次麥克風賠了沒有你打人賠了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4038.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4040.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
沒了沒了你死外公你沒了沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4043.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4053.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
民進黨砍長輩砍幼兒的社福的這個預算砍大家教育預算低收入的這個預算砍地方的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4074.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4091.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
你對得起誰啊?你的核能生產的那個工程要你對得起誰啊?屏東人都還要找你算帳?你懂什麼瓜哥啦?如果大家意見都不一致就來辯論啦來開會來討論啦,可以賠償的嘛這產業可以發展啊,人民的電價不要漲啊,很好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4108.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4117.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
你們就不敢辯論喔!不敢辯論喔!只敢講這些話而已!你們除了喜歡選舉,喜歡大選,你考到一執政啊!執政黨! |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4122.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4141.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
所有的地方政府的官員看一下山林門預算的人站在這邊山林門預算的人站在這邊山林門預算的人都在這邊所有刪除預算的人都站在這邊所有的地方政府的官員看一下兩千多萬一十億元都跑出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4147.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4161.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這是民進黨引起的聲音啊還是在民進黨的臉書上面臉書多樣的一般性的補助款是不可以刪除的我們黨任何的政黨都要等候3.1一般性的補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
6395.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
6395.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
這個其實蠻 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
6417.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
6419.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
有點陌 有點深啦我們現在就錄啊我們錄啊就剪好 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
6432.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
6454.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
今天這個會議是違法違憲要立法院預算已經審查不定了而且送到 已經給總統都已經公告過了所以這是確定下來的事情那確定下來的事情就是說因為它除了明文規定的303億多之外304億之外它還有一個決議說必須要總共要3909億那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
6459.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
6469.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
剩下的939億多所以剩下大概636億他就要求行政院要進行參選就是在藍白立法院多數 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
6732.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
6745.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
現在一個問題依照憲法規定地方政府的首長來立法院他是備許不是來主動報告我們沒有這個程序真的不適合他改革他說他人叫來不讓人家說他不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
6763.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
6792.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
或是覺得你的領域在質詢你就請他去來詢答就好啊備詢你可以等你的立委發言的時候請他上來回答嘛給他備詢可以所以我舉個例子假設你們的委員你們的李燕秀等一下他發言的時候他要請林立法上台這OK我們同意這備詢但是不是他主動沒有人 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
6793.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
6805.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
對 沒有人問的時候他自己跑上來不是這樣子這是第一個第二個如果是這樣的話你們的人來多把這個因為已經提出了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
6807.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
6828.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
戰略同意不可能撤回,你把它表決掉我們也沒有意見好好,我現在意思說,要告訴各位,我們要照憲法的規定你們備詢的時候,你們可以安排你們的立委請你們要問的首長上來問啊我們要問誰,是我們的事情嘛所以不是主動報告,是備詢上來發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
6843.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
6859.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我們發言的時候,我們要問哪個地方首長,那是我們的權利那你們的委員要問誰也是你們的權利那你問的時候,他當然可以上來備詢,但他不是主動來報告因為如果可以這樣的話,不是,市長我跟你講,這次為什麼要守住呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
6860.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
6882.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
如果這樣假設這個開了這個例我以後當召委的時候我要求你新竹縣政府所有的官員都來然後你一個一個來給我報告這整個政府的體制都亂掉了OK 好不好有來一個用質詢的方式他喜歡叫誰上來誰上來我沒意見嘛你如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
6889.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
6909.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們會叫他們不要拔掉啦,稍微動議會被表決掉表決掉之後,他要進入這個程序,他們有同意列席的地方政府的首長是被尋,不是上來報告但是他們要被尋誰,我們沒有意見他本來是他的權利,我們滿好的同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
6929.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
6938.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我是這樣子建議你啦你聽聽看啦因為依照憲法67條你非我們中央政府的行政手段來使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
6941.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
6956.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
可以列席備詢可以列席備詢所以等一下應該是你們國民黨的委員或是我們委員會的委員要質詢的時候他要邀請自己上台都可以這是權利我們不會阻擋但是不是主動請他報告主動請他報告會亂掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
6961.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
6964.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
所以這OK啦 這樣子我們就照程序來我OK |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
6985.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
7010.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
對啊 就是你們質詢的時候你請他上來講我沒有意見啊你本來就十分鐘你都可以講啊就是這樣委員就是今天能夠上台報告的就是還是這些人而已但是十八個 二十三個縣市的話只能在詢答的時候比方像上一次羅委員他直接點哪一個縣市的財政委員來但是不可以直接讓他們來報告因為今天我們的那個所有的專題 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
7023.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
7035.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那程序發言還...欸 那個...欸 那個...那三位...那三位都沒有表決啊三位都沒有表決啊啊 表決都沒有表決啊你還是要照顧你們啊那三位都沒有表決啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
7041.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
7044.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳的名稱是大廈餐廳。餐廳的名稱是大廈餐廳。 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
7078.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
7079.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
還沒有 還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
7110.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
7115.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這間餐廳的名稱是大廈大廈餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
7138.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
7138.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
好 好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
7169.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
7174.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
回到我們家 因為整個禮物總共有七百塊錢所以它和我們家組織起來 總共有三百塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
7188.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
7195.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
所以說,沒什麼時間了他現在是不是不用補救了?因為那個人來了來了,有人來了哪一個先吃的?新北市新北市新北市新北市 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
7215.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
7216.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
7237.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
7239.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
你看啊,豆腐在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
7264.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
7284.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
好 報告我們繼續開會啦我們按照程序因為有吳秉瑞 郭光文 賴慧妍 李坤城 鍾嘉斌等委員提出三位同意我們現在請問是否同意三位不同意我們舉手表決好不好同意三位的請舉手不同意同意同意同意同意同意同意同意不同意三位的請舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
7295.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
7297.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
今天我們的進行是這樣子因為按照過去的慣例 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
7319.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
7341.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
所有的縣市的政府的長官是列席並備詢所以原則上就不請你們先發言先做因為那是我們官員做施政報告但是其他委員如果點到你的話那就麻煩你們就到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
7343.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
7348.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這個備訓台來說明好不好我們會議將進行來我們現在請行政院主計總書陳主計長就公決案及專題報告進行報告請 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
7365.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
7382.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
主席、各位委員、女士、先生今天應邀貴委員會就近十年中央對地方政府的補助情形和對均衡地方經濟發展的成效進行報告自感榮幸提出檢要報告如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
7382.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
7398.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
一中對於財政協助的原則一地方制度法87條的規定縣市單獨或合併改制為直轄市時其他直轄市他所受統籌分配稅款和補助款的總額不得已少於 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
7399.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
7413.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
該職強是改制前所以近年來中央對地方的財政協助均保障各縣市獲配的統籌分配稅款項一般性補助款和技術不低於103年桃園市改制基準年水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
7414.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
7428.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那第二個為創意地方財政的能量近年來中央均確保在自身財政穩健的前提下優於匡列一般性補助款那所以這個各縣市的一個貨配財源都逐年成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
7429.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
7453.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那第三個是普通統籌分配稅次按固定比例分配直轄市六個直轄市獲得分配61.76但是各16縣市只獲得24%所以為了均衡城鄉的一個差距我們透過一般性補助款來依助縣市那成長率能夠高於直轄市所以以拉近直轄市和縣市之間的一個差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
7453.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
7465.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那第二個是中央對財政協助的一個情形那以113年度決算為例中央對統籌分配稅案一般性補助款總共6804億元比103年的決算數增加2561億元或60.4顯示中央也非常重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
7475.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
7489.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那個和地方間的夥伴關係並透過一個裁員來盡力協助地方政府那相關的一個協助的情形請看下列的一個表格所以各縣市的情況近年來都已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
7490.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
7501.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
選住的改善整體縣市的一個決算101年稅入稅出的短處是629億到了104年是剩餘64然後113年剩餘708那像台北市他就剩餘269億台南市剩餘72高雄市剩餘59億南投縣剩餘41億台中市剩餘38億新竹市剩餘33億等 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
7516.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
7542.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那所以稅入稅出有短處的部分呢到113年度降為一個整體的一個縣市的自有財源比率由101的61.6成長到成長到67.8成長6個百分點那所以這個部分呢近年來中央透過統籌分配稅和一般性補助款抑制地方讓地方的一個貨幣財源能夠大幅增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
7543.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
7569.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那現在因為財劃法的一個修正讓地方的一個財源大幅增加但是並沒有把相關的一個地方的應該辦理的事項來做移轉所以這個部分呢我們經財政部試算城鄉的差距有擴大所以我們在5月20日已經申請釋憲那中方對我們對地方的一個補助機制我們也會配合調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
7570.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
7584.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那再來就是針對就是說請我們第二點就是我們通案就是說中央政府通案刪減一般性補助款要立即要足以撥付給地方政府然後要做調整這個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
7585.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
7603.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那這個主要因為是因為大院他刪減總預算將近2076億元那通案刪減的部分以940億元扣除以核實計算的通案通刪數是304那行政院還必須自行刪減636 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
7605.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
7628.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那必須自行刪減這個金額龐大我們自愛難行所以造成政策成敗無法歸屬責任政治難以建立違反權利分立和制衡原則預算法第49條的一個規定所以我們在2月27移情大院來赴議但是大院仍維持原結運所以我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
7629.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
7638.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
行政院在5月21提請釋憲但是我們還是必須要公布刪減的數額所以因為中央已經大幅刪減1439億也針對特定的項目巨幅刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
7644.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
7652.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
如大陸地區刪減80%國外旅會和出國教育訓練機會刪減60%媒體政策宣導會刪減60%特別會刪減60%幾乎部分機關甚至全部刪除所以衝擊業務甚至行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
7663.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
7683.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
將這些的移情大院來赴議但是在3月12還是維持原決議中央已窮盡救濟的程序未免對國防、安全、外交和教育政策等造成嚴重影響所以我們只能免於調減一般性補助款所以這個部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
7683.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
7700.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
依照財務法30條案地方制度法的規定中央對於財力交叉的地方卓予補助而且行政院在113年8月30合定的縣市一般補助款時以續名上開的補助款如經大院審議有所刪減我們將依其審議結果配合調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
7703.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
7722.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
所以114年一般性補助款條件630億元尚無違反相關的法令規定那目前各界已經對110年一般性補助款三節的提出解決方案我們後續將聽取各方的意見來研議相關的一個方案以上報告敬請各位委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝這個主計長的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
7732.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
7749.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
報告委員會我們10點40分截止登記現在請財政部的總部長請盡量盡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
7760.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
7778.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
主席 各位委員先進 大家好接下來由本部緊究今天的專題來進行涉及本部業務的部分做簡要的說明由於我國各地自然環境和工商發展條件不一稅源分布也不均的情形非常顯著為了調劑地方財政的營需促進地方經濟的均衡發展本部歷年都根據財化法的規定提撥所得稅 營業稅 貨物稅以及縣市土增稅收入的一定比例納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
7790.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
7815.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
統籌稅款按照一定的公式分配給直轄市縣市以及鄉鎮市並且在會計年度開始的四個月前通知各地方政府納入預算那中央統籌稅款是根據是屬於地方政府的稅客收入應該按照實際的收入數來撥付如果實際的收入數超過通知的分配數那麼我們會在預算整理期間結束以後也就 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
7815.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
7834.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
第二年的1月15日那辦理第三次的稅款的一個分配撥付但如果實際收入數比通知分配數如果短少的話那我們會辦理短撥並且會提前通知地方政府預為因應今年由於受到美國關稅政策的影響近期出口大增 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
7835.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
7859.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
以至於營業稅的退稅金額比去年同期來的增加再加上所得稅延後申報以及繳納使整體的一個稅款收入的入庫時程不如預期所以就按稅收的實際入庫的情形調整當月的撥付金額並且也事先通知地方政府預為因應那麼在7月以後就可以按照月平均數來撥付 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
7860.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
7863.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
並且依序撥補之前個月份實際撥付金額未達月平均撥付數的差額 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
7867.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
7893.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
近十個年度普通統籌稅款的波幅情形來看的話一百零四年度普通統籌稅款的實際收入數是新台幣兩千三百二十億元逐年成長到一百一十三年度四千一百三十一億元增幅增加達到百分之七十八點一那麼期間除了一百零九年度受到疫情影響稅客收入的時增數低於預算數而是統籌稅款的短波以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
7894.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
7910.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
其他年度的實際收入數的超過預算通知分配數的累計達到2727億元都已經依法全數撥付給地方政府此外本部的國庫署歷年都按照營業稅法的規定在金融業的營業稅稅款撥入金融業特別準備金的期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
7915.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
7943.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
編列專案補助補足地方政府因為統籌稅款所減少的收入近10年度也合計達到1089億對於彌補地方政府統籌稅款收入都有所注意綜合上述近10年度普通統籌稅款加計金融業營業稅統籌稅款短少的專案補助累計撥付地方政府高達3兆1001億元對於地方政府的裁員挹注非常顯著而各該地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
7943.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
7970.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
能妥善規劃運用對於各項的業務推動以及地方經濟的發展都有所助益以上說明敬請各位委員指教謝謝好 謝謝財政部的總部長的報告那麼其他各部外的報告請各位自行參閱我們現在就開始對不起喔這個剛剛漏掉一個很重要的今天請那個民眾黨的代表黃珍珍委員做體驗說明請 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
7980.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
7999.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
主席還有各位貴賓我想今天非常重要的是台灣民眾黨黨團在這一次行政院主席總署他行文給各縣市政府將中央編列給地方政府的一般性補助款從114年度的5月到12月分配的撥補數全數改為未分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
7999.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
8017.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
这个行为已经严重违反立法院通案删减促进政府资源有效配置的决议精神中央政府预算编列腐烂原编列的是3兆1000亿元立法院通案删减后仍然有高达2兆9000亿元之数 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
8018.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
8036.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
也是中華民國史上最高的中央政府總預算本院本欲職責審議預算也督促中央政府增進財務的效能減少不當的經濟支出甚至浪費但是中央政府不去檢討如何有效節用分配資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
8037 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
8048.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
反而意圖抗地方支凱緊縮一般性補助款的相關補助事項把準用直轄市規定的縣市基本的財政收支差短還有定額涉算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
8049.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
8068.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
的教育社會福利還有基本設施等改為未分配數這個行為不但違反原預算刪減提案的意旨更嚴重侵害影響地方財政運作所以台灣民眾黨提出本個提案主要要先還原過去八年特別預算常態化公務預算腐爛編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
8069.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
8096.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我們的國債已經高達5.9兆元國人平均負債高達26.5萬元所以立法院在財政日益沉重的情況下我們決議通案刪減部分預算以免放任政府支出無限制的擴張並開啟未來年度預算包針的惡例所以這一次我們所刪減的預算在歷年以來立法院每年都會對中央政府總預算進行通案的刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
8097.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
8116.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
今年並不是特例112年刪減了300億111年通刪了270億幾乎維持在1%左右這是年度固定刪減但是行政院並沒有按照必要性跟優先性的條件去做一些審查而是 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
8117.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
8140.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
最不負責任最懶惰的方式直接將636億的砍在地方政府的一般補助款上刪付額度高達25%所以今天的提案希望能夠在委員會通過也給中央政府一個重要的提示就是立法院通刪預算是刪除行政院及所屬中央機關並不是地方的一般補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
8141.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
8161.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這一次阻擊走錯的做法嚴重違反 嚴重違反立法院重視財政紀律的目的而自行做這樣的處置不但打擊地方自治 更是製造憲政上的惡力謝謝大家好 謝謝黃委員的說明我們現在開始詢問 做一下宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
8162.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
8180.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
每位出席委員發言時間8分鐘 畢老師延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言4分鐘因為今天登記的委員很多所以我跟各位報告就不給各位再拖時間到我就站起來了就拜託各位配合 來 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
8187.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
8204.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
第一位委員 林德偉 質詢請謝謝 我是不是來邀請就是我們新北市的副市長劉河蘭 劉副市長還有這個到我這裡來另外還有這個台中在他那裡啦台南車北新台 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
8205.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
8211.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我意思是說他在這裡他不可以 他不可以這樣可以嗎?他不可以 他不可以這樣喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
8211.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
8222.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
不可以你執行 你不可以好 來好 那個還有政府市長 來我們台中市那個兩位在這邊在這邊對 對 對你們在你們在不可以你們在不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
8228.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
8234.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我本來是想要他們我站在旁邊然後請主計長上來然後你們的問題好 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
8244.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
8250.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那開始的時候我就請那個林副市長其實齁 主席長主要就是讓你了解地方的問題你要上來啊請主席長一起來這樣就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
8261.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
8284.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我們就請那個劉副市長表達我們現在地方這次三的那個補助館你們的困難所在你們的問題所在來我們總召還有我們德福委員還有立法院財委會的委員跟所有委員以及我們憲政院的所有這個團隊以及媒體朋友大家早安我是新北市副市長劉和然 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
8285.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
8303.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那今天是代表我們新北市尤其是我們新北市的弱勢族群來在立法院跟各位委員跟所有媒體朋友跟各位夥伴做個報告我想一般性的補助款對地方來講是非常重要的一筆預算它主要的方向在三個部分以新北市來談第一個是我們的社福 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
8304.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
8326.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
第二個是教育第三個是一些基礎設施跟建設所以這三塊的預算其實在地方裡面是屬於我們最接近第一線的民眾的感受所以這三筆預算我們合成起來在這次的一般性補助款三除的30.44億裡面我們的社福預算包括一些弱勢族群包括身心障礙朋友的一些津貼就高達16.1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
8329.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
8344.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
在我們的教育預算裡面包括一些校舍的這個設施的補助或是我們孩子的營養午餐一些相關弱勢孩子的一些照顧就高達7.6億另外一個部分就是我們的第一線的一些設施道路的養護農路等 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
8344.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
8364.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們包括高灘地相關的一些設施設備的處理上就高達6.7億這30.4億其實對我們一個縣市政府來講是非常重要的而且它主要的關係人就是我們的身心障礙的朋友我們弱勢的族群我們的孩子所以在這三個面向裡面這一次的一般性補助款這樣的刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
8366.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
8381.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
剛剛有媒體在問說是不是違法這個就尊重立法院跟院裡面來做協調可是以地方市政府的角色來看其實這是一種非常惡意的刪除我為什麼用這樣的字眼叫惡意其實都是行政部門我們都是行家 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
8382.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
8409.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我們都在議會待過我自己也當了局長我很清楚統三的意義是什麼統三就是在這個議會或是所謂的立法院的刪除以後讓行政部門依照自己的施政優先數據來做一些輕重緩急的調整所以這筆統三理論上是應該把相對衝擊小影響少的來做刪除所以剛剛我在院裡面這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
8412.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
8426.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
裡面我聽到這筆預算是636億是由行政院自行調整如果這筆錢是在地方縣市政府絕對不會把這筆錢刪在我們的弱勢族群我們的孩子 我們相關的預算我相信這個大概是 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
8427.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
8442.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
所有的民意代表也好從政者也好需要把人民放在心上把民眾放在心上非常重要的一塊所以我從來沒有聽過統三竟然是把一般性補助款的636億全部刪在一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
8443.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
8467.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
其他的部門完全不用調整這是非常不可思議的做法我們在自己的市府裡面如果議會給我們統三我們這樣子是刪除我們沒辦法面對我們的市民朋友所以還是拜託我們立法院拜託我們所有的委員所有的好朋友我們沒有要選擇來抗議什麼我們也可以辦很多的說明跟民眾講說是怎麼刪除因為我們也懂大家都是行家說行話 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
8468.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
8486.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
統三的精神是什麼其實大家都很清楚所以在這邊或許講得比較直接一點可是因為衝擊到的就是我們身心障礙的好朋友我們的弱勢族群 我們的中低收入戶我們的學童 我們的孩子所以我要很直接的表達既然是行政院自行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
8487.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
8510.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
為什麼不能調整在其他不一樣的優先順序輕重環節的項目所以這是我們新北市特別在這邊跟總召跟我們所有委員跟所有的媒體拜託這是第一線民眾非常需要的經費請趕快調整回來讓我們好好的照顧我們的市民朋友照顧我們的國人以上是新北市政府的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
8511.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
8514.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
好 謝謝劉副市長來 接下來我們請鄭副市長表達以後我再來請那個竹記長來講話來好 謝謝 謝謝我們林樂福委員謝謝我們趙吉仁也謝謝我們立法院各位同仁 行政院各位同仁就像剛剛這個劉輝然副市長所提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
8533.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
8554.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
一般性補助款所涉及的內容是人民最需要的內容是市民最需要的內容就是設服教育跟基礎建設我們常常聽到一句話再怎麼窮不能窮教育再怎麼苦不能苦孩子可是行政院這樣的統三就是告訴我說再怎麼不窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
8554.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
8569.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
也要窮教育再怎麼不苦也要苦孩子怎麼會把這兩個這樣子最重要的會涉及到一般性補助一般小朋友或者說中低收入戶或者是高齡者他最需要的補助這個項目來進行刪減那剛剛這個劉慧蘭副市長講的很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
8574.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
8592.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那麼立法院呢交給行政院來進行統三其實是對行政院的一種信任信任什麼信任行政院有能力判斷什麼樣的預算的優先順序是應該要來做這個排序的那結果排序的結果是告訴我們說小朋友的 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
8593.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
8620.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這個津貼不重要那中低收入戶的津貼不重要那這個老人健保的補助不重要其他的預算比較重要那我們就很好奇什麼樣的預算比孩子的未來比教育的這些津貼更重要台中市政府從2019年開始每年上繳中央代表市民上繳中央的稅收就1400億到今年更是超過2000億交過 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
8622.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
8647.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那台中市民撇手之足努力打拼繳上來的稅的結果是我們的青年的父母連自己的小朋友的津貼都頂不到中央都不給老人家要健保的補助也頂不到因為中央也不給我想這不會是我們台中市民跟鄉親或者是所有地方政府想要看到的結果我想今天在場的所有縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
8647.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
8674.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
不分黨派立場基本上都一致不斷手段是什麼中央或給地方的一般性補助款這麼重要的金錢這麼重要的建設是一毛都不應該刪除一毛都不應該刪除更不用講說立法院這邊有討論說是不是有法律的增益跟保障這方面我們尊重立法院但是這筆錢重不重要這筆錢很重要這筆錢就是人民最重要的需要再怎麼刪 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
8675.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
8680.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
也不應該刪給地方政府的一般性補助這是最重要的預算 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
8695.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
8714.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
你們自行調整有輕重緩急結果你們就刻意的來將社會福利啦將教育啦將這些弱勢來做砍殺講實在話人在做天在看大家心知肚明你們這是刻意的那個主席長你要表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
8716.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
8724.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
是我也跟英國人報告因為大院刪除我們2076億那通案刪減940億那940億裡面指定刪減的部分就304億那我們必須要自行調整636億但是面對這麼大一個額度的一個刪減我們是有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
8735.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
8758.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
有輕重反擊但是你為什麼一定要把教育 把這些社會無力低落弱勢的來砍殺但是立法院仍然維持決議所以我們現在還是循行政程序在釋憲那釋憲的一個結果在看這個情況講實在話你們提釋憲對立法院是非常非常的不尊重因為預算已經綜藝處理了你們還提釋憲大法官那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
8763.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
8772.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
對不對大家心知肚明啦從我到立法院來從來沒有這種狀況啦給你們自行調整結果你不但自行不調整又來故意砍殺這些地方的縣市政府來砍殺這些弱勢這是特別你們故意的我認為人民會自己去判斷啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
8787.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
8801.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
因為立法院已經大幅刪減我們的一個預算1439還大幅刪減這裡面有大陸地區的一個百分之八十拜託 鋪國旅會百分之六十 歷屆這一次預算最多還有一個巡討會也是百分之九十 還大幅刪減所以其他的大部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
8802.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
8814.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我們已經沒有辦法刪減了 只剩下國防 外交和教育所以這個部分我們反映了就是不得不得的做法那個主計長我從來沒有看過像這樣的主計長啦 講實在話歷任我在立法院第七屆了 我沒有看過這樣的主計長啦讓你調整 讓你方便 你把方便當隨便 而且又這麼刻意 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
8828.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
8836.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
講實在話今天為什麼那麼多縣市首長來這裡講實在話你自己要深刻檢討啦對不對聽從上議你要有你自己的堅持對不對主席長你一來整個過去從來沒有發生的這次都發生了講實在話你自己要深刻的檢討你再來你還要多久對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
8853.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
8872.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
講實在話 過去從來沒有 讓你們方便 結果你把方便當隨便然後這樣來惡搞 講實在話 人民真的是看不下去啦因為行政院他一個刪減的部分 他就是那個是法律義務應該要支出的 要給這些地方的剛剛我還特別拿法令給你看 對不對好 謝謝林德鴻委員的執行 現在請吳秉樂委員執行請 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
8887.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
8902.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
主席麻煩請陳主席長這一次立法院的預算三減總共三多少金額2076億然後這一次這個有指定可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
8910.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
8935.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
指定名目刪除了有多少1439還有一個636億沒有指定要我們自行調整對 已經刪了1400多億然後還有636億要自行調整請問主席 你知不知道雖然名義上是立法院刪的但是主張刪除的表決你有沒有看是不是國民黨跟民眾黨的立委贊成這樣刪除的是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
8937.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
8959.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
所以預算刪除是藍白兩黨刪除了嘛對不對對方的首長聽清楚啊今天刪這麼多就是藍白的立法委員憑藉立法會的多數收含了眼想要貪汗中央政府所以砍這麼多預算啊沒有這些刪除大家今天不用來坐在這個地方啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
8966.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
8992.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
然後講那個似是而非的說歷年來預算最多哪一個縣市政府不是歷年來預算最多今年哪一個縣市政府不是歷年來預算最多所以用這個邏輯來講是不通的啦因為這是一個話術啊時代進步我們所要做的業務越來越多當然經費要增加然後講的好像我們去少了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
8995.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
9018.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
對於這一般的這個補助款刪減就是刻意要刪社福刻意要刪教育刻意要刪一些什麼兒童跟老人的福利我跟你說剛剛主席長有報告地方政府過去這幾年財政都有盈餘啊都plus啦當然長年來講負債還沒有還完但是連續幾年都是正數嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
9020.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
9045.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那所以今年因為立法院這樣刪減大家共體時間來去做財政的手段做一些舉借如果真的不夠也可以啊也還在舉借的範圍內嘛以我新北市來講少了30億但是總數還是比去年多了60幾億啊今年的總體的補助是不是比去年多了60幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
9048.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
9068.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
然後來這個地方好像是我們刻意要凌虐你刻意要虧空你的沒有人有這樣的心啊今天如果不是藍白的立法委員沙紅的眼這樣亂刪除預算人家行政院原來編好送到立法院的預算喔是足夠的那誰是始作俑者現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
9075.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
9097.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
亂三預算之後外界在用大罷免在反彈刻意製造這個場景想要來推卸責任想要來挽回民眾對你們的制裁這一種說法不能接受啦主席長我請問你你的636億為什麼要刪一般性的補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
9100.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
9118.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
是因為我們636億第一個他要叫我們自行調整那這個部分如果自行調整金額龐大是有自愛難行而且造成政策成敗無法歸屬所以我們有複議但是複議的結果又被維持原決議所以我們現在在5月21申請釋憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
9120.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
9141.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
但是我們已窮盡所有的救濟程序然後我們也嘗試去刪減各項譬如說國防、外交還有教育這些大部分都沒有辦法刪減所以我們在不得不的一個情況下才來刪減一般性的一個補助款那目前我們也希望說各界能夠提供給我們一些各方的一個解決的辦法我們聽取各方的一個意見來研擬解決的一個辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
9146.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
9171.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
剛剛還在這邊有委員講說是給你方便耶636讓你統山叫做給你方便是有困難的自行刪減是有困難的那你覺得如果不自行刪減舉一個例子國民黨的民主黨人就多啊我好指3636還有人要說我要刪更多咧那請他們提出要刪減的金額跟確切的項目你覺得這樣建議好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
9173.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
9196.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
至少不要在這邊推卸責任說我是給你方便如果說我們自行刪減責任是真的歸屬困難是這樣子那到底是要刪哪裡就是有困難啊所以預算是誰刪除的誰是始作俑者我要再強調一遍不要亂刪預算後面沒有這些困難啦那刪的預算人民要究責 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
9198.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
9217.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
安排這種場景想要推卸責任叫地方來副市長來這邊搞政治說中央就是要克扣你們是這樣嗎你等一下也可以講啊台中市今年總共補助比去年相比多多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
9221.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
9234.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
多多少 他比去年增加46億今年的補助比去年增加46億是 三減三 靠一句市長說的錢更多不會執政那就換人嘛都用你們邏輯講就好了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
9237.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
9262.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
對不對 他不是講說錢更多不會執政就換人為什麼地方政府的財政每一年往前增加中央政府就說人家是最多因為民進黨會執政啊財政做得比以前好啊 稅收多啊所以我當然變用預算來用啊那你地方政府不是這樣嗎你今天財政做過變好就代表你地方政府的執政也有成效啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
9264.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
9284.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那為什麼不用相同的標準對待中央跟地方我在跟藍白的立委講636億有本事你來講這邊講你要刪哪裡要刪哪一個科目要刪多少錢不要在那邊賴說什麼事給人家請證據方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
9286.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
9308.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
已經刪到沒有辦法再刪了 已經出過頭髮刀了 你還念著讀 念著讀就是這樣啊我在立法院也將近20年了 從來沒有預算刪除2000多億的啦以前了不起就頂多刪一個百分點 一點多個百分點照比例來講 刪照1000億 以前最多就是刪300億今年給你刪2000多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
9313.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
9340.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那我中央沒有錢我中央的錢被拿走了那我要怎麼辦請台灣全體大家共體時間嘛因為大家都還有財政手段可以用你地方政府跟議會的關係不像在台立法院都在搞政治立法院都在搞政治啊要癱瘓你啊地方議會沒有這樣的狀況地方議會經過議會的同意地方還可以用財政手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
9341.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
9361.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
以前Mainas的時候也舉借嘛那何況連續這麼多年都是class真正有愛心就用財政手段去解決這個問題行政院也是不得已講的好像是我們都是壞人我們是天生沒良心都是故意要怎麼樣沒有這樣的人啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
9365.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
9392.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
喔 大家都是應該要將心比心啦今天不要亂算預算 後面沒有這些問題啊我有嘴說到無辜 說到瘦死啊因為這些人都在扭曲啊就是在扭曲 預算是他們砍的跟不跟輸贏啊砍的預算 然後還要不承擔責任還想要推卸責任你們當初在砍多少預算在比賽的時候 不是很爽嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
9396.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
9411.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我跟林大夫回答 二十年來我在立法院沒有見過這樣的在野黨了現在只是因為習勢多 什麼時候要握把配合中華民國憲政 中華民國憲法 權力分立 全部來亂搞一氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
9417.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
9445.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那再問一個問題,刪減114年的一般性補助款有沒有違法?他們在強調你違法,你有沒有違法?是,因為依照那個補助辦法裡面它規定就是說中央要橫著自己的一個財力來對地方佐予補助那所以這個部分我們在113年8月30在核定各縣市的一個一般性補助款的時候也是述明說如果補助這個部分我們有立法院被刪減的部分我們就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
9445.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
9452.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
做一個相關的一個調整和刪減所以這個部分114年一般性補助調減636億也沒有違反相關的一個法令規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
9455.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
9470.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
另外一點是預算去年編的你剛剛他現在改了這個財政收支法裡面再去規定說以後他們的那個金額一般性補助款不能減那是要向後生效的所以他要用後面修的法來說你前面違法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
9480.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
9501.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
他現在邏輯就是這樣你們一講再講台灣現在有些地方不講道理藍郡的媒體多 都講他們的話好像他們講的都對一樣你要加強發言的力道多講一些讓社會大眾知道怎麼一回事 好不好加油 堅持到底大罷免大成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
9506.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
9510.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
好 謝謝接下來請我們召委賴思寶委員質詢謝謝主席有請台北市的林麗華副市長以及我們的主計長台北市林副市長還有我們的主計長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
9539.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
9566.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
首先請教護士長現在砍了地方的補助款到底砍掉哪些東西特別是好 要非常感謝昭偉這有機會讓我們能夠來到財政委員會來表達我們這次行政院突然刪減地方政府一般性補助款對我們的衝擊以及要表達反對之意在這邊要先報告一下我們所影響的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
9567.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
9577.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
這個是我有做一個表格這有關於我們所有被刪減部分社會福利支出被刪掉27.6%教育被刪掉38.9%基本設施被刪掉27.4%還有補助地方政府統籌運用財源刪掉59.5%那裡面社福大概是大家最關注的就我們都知道這裡面都是跟兒少跟老人跟弱勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
9597.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
9624.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
相關的很多或是婦女相關的預算所以像大家看到的這個由地方政府配置優先辦理項目第一個其他兒少婦女老人及身障福利支出就跟委員報告像包括說我們的老人的收容安置長照的服務還有像我們社會局委託民間單位辦理老人服務的相關方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
9625.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
9643.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
像說老人日照啦老人的服務中心以及我們打唱一下三代的長照是不是對還有我們老人健保的自負額的補助以及重陽記老金還有我們像鼓勵大家生育的我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
9644.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
9661.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
孕婦的好運to you乘車的補助那另外呢還有包括五歲以下兒童育兒津貼兒童托育補助等等還有像包括委託收容及維基家庭兒童的托育補助等等那另外呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
9662.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
9679.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
還有就是有關於也要跟我們報告還有我們有些是屬於硬體的設施那這個硬體的設施事實上都是有關於我們的像包括兒少婦幼受抱者的收容安置長者的關懷據點 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
9680.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
9704.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
日照中心等等那這就在我們其他社會局主管支出的部分也一樣都會受到相關的衝擊那另外要跟委員報告就是說在基本設施的部分大家都知道台北市這幾年致力於這也是中央要求就是要洗刷人行地獄這樣的一個不好的一個名譽所以我們也花了大量的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
9705.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
9725.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
希望能夠做人行道的改善工程道路改善跟維護工程那在這次裡面的基本設施也看到了受到相關的衝擊你這裡提到有個北市科啊是對會影響到北市科像北市科的部分舉例來說我們現在大家知道我們單 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
9726.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
9739.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
目前大家知道像NVIDIA它可能都會進到北市科來對 就是黃雲勳的部分那所以我們相關的一些交通用地這些都是在我們這次的基本設施內因為現在大家也很在 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
9742.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
9762.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
擔憂未來會不會有內湖科學園區一樣的問題就是交通上的一個影響所以像這些都是我們現在在這次有關一般補助款裡面納入的一個內容但是另外我也想跟委員報告一下因為我們大家覺得在地方上很不解的是說像這我手上的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
9763.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
9780.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我看到是總統令在今年的3月21號公布中華民國114年度中央政府總預算裡面我們看到第26款直轄市及縣市政府第一項直轄市及縣市一般性補助款2501億元照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
9783.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
9800.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
也就是呢 今天從地方政府上看起來就是 立法院是分文未刪啊 完全照列所以我們當然覺得說請問你那個 這裡的 我們的一般補助款在台北市議會通過沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
9801.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
9813.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
通過了 一毛錢沒有刪去年八月三十一號是不是一毛錢沒有刪一毛都沒刪 而且我們現在都已經拒以執行中來來來 請教署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
9817.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
9840.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
其實主席長你是好人不過好人有時候不一定做得對的事像你這個事實到底雙重違法第一個我們經過立法院通過的預算它就是法律叫措施性法律然後你說你還釋憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
9842.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
9861.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那你錢怎麼用呢 如果你說實現了 所以我就不理他那這樣子你錢都不能用 你現在錢都在用啊你錢都在用 第一個你這個全數通過 而且地方議會每一個議會也都通過了你到底的是侵犯了立法權 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
9862.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
9889.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我們通過了,這是我們的職權我們通過了預算一般補助款一毛錢都沒有刪結果你大大一括要刪636億第二個,財務法30條第三項也是講到了不能比去年少你也是這樣刪所以到底的你是筷子手你違兩個法一個就是我們立法院通過的措施性法律一個就是財務法 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
9891.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
9913.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
主席長 你要不要解釋一下你現在來 我要講一下喔這個剛才副市長講的你刪了哪些他講的長照所以我們看到這個過去的謠言都說我們刪長照對不起我們問了衛福部的市長一毛錢都沒刪結果他們沒有刪 你刪了 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
9915.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
9939.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
你刪了 我會明明刪了 是你刪地方的長照所以你刪了是什麼 老的 小的 身障的 社會無力還有交通設施 無障礙的設施 比如說啟尼學校 啟中學校這些都是非常弱勢的 你專門殺弱勢的難怪啊 主席長 你有內法的 你要去解釋一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
9940.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
9967.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
報告委員我們這個3的部分就是說雖然你這個一般性補助你沒有寫說要3但是你有在那個3減的裡面要我們自行3減636我通過了嗎對通過要3減636要我們自行3減636但是636我們3減的部分我們是表示是有困難因為我們前面已經3減了你不要混淆大家了我們原來就有統3 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
9969.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
9993.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我們就刪了300多億但是有一個636是沒有指定刪減的但是基本上就是原來統算的那幾項就統中央的單位那幾項縱使再刪我們是沒辦法承受業務根本沒辦法進行所以這個部分再刪的部分只能刪到國防外交和教育那這三項我們都不能刪所以只能不得不要刪減一般性補助我們都鼓勵你了 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
9995.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
10005.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
而且台北市我在跟您報告台北市它經過刪減以後它還比去年增加82億所以台北市本身的財源就是非常的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
10010.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
10028.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
跟我們報告 事實上大家都這麼認為但事實上以今年來講我們如果是用統籌分配稅款加上補助的部分台北市市六都裡面排名第五名這個大家都希望來我講一下給大家也不是科普 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
10029.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
10044.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
中央給地方就三筆錢第一個統籌運費稅款第二個一般性補助款第三個計畫型補助款一定要這三個家鄉一起看六都裡面台北市永遠都是第四名第五名 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
10046.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
10066.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
很簡單 因為她是台北市因為她台北市這就是這樣啊 大小眼啊 人家都知道啊所以這個主席長 你不能夠直接挑一項來講啊還不是說她是排第二 並不是排第五喔我們把三項合起來 她是排第二喔那是你講的 來來來 我們副市長都是你第二 你講第五呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
10067.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
10094.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
是 報告一下我們一百四年的部分是總共八百六十億元 六都排名第五去年是八百四十二億是六都排名第五所以今年是第五 去年是第四對啦 直接我跟我的統計這樣 你們不要亂講因為我們這邊數字是顯示第二喔 不是第五喔好啦 你們這樣要坐也沒辦法啦我就是想說第四名 第五名這個解決辦法喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
10095.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
10112.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們現在這個左院長實在很厲害啦要給他刪636你就等於哪個人來勒索反正地方政府的補助款大家一定心痛好不好 再追加預算啊這結果是什麼結果就是沒有刪到就636啊 636跑掉了Let's go |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
10116.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
10135.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
昨天那個636有夠厲害啊這個叫滿天過海啊刪掉它補掉所以你沒有刪636啊因為縱使要辦追加你也必須要符合追加的條件才有辦法追加你現在用這個來恐慌我們這是沒辦法做的一個地步這個主席長這樣字字不厚道啦把636吃掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
10144.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
10147.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
謝謝賴委員我們接下來請莊教兵委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
10178.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
10188.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
好 主席 在場的委員先進列席的政務機關上的官員 會長 公眾夥伴媒體 記者女士先生有請行政院主計總署陳主計長財政部莊部長和主席署的宋署長宋署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
10200.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
10227.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
委員好主席長好 部長好 署長好來 先請教主席長是主席長去年 省今年的中央政府總預算被刪了多少錢兩千零七十六億兩千零七十六億是你刪的嗎不是是立法院刪的嗎是是立法院刪的你有沒有刪中央政府總預算沒有沒有 好今天我的體重是七十三公斤那今天如果有人要求我減重十公斤那你覺得我怎麼減最快 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
10229.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
10257.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我的頭剛好10公斤頭剁掉就減了10公斤可以這樣嗎應該不會嘛你會從哪裡減脂肪多的地方減嘛對不對好假如我73公斤要我減10公斤那請問一下目前地方政府的財政有沒有餘裕目前情況都已經好轉好轉了我看到的說有剩餘那是這幾個地方政府剩餘都一樣多嗎還是有的剩的多有的剩的少還是有的甚至還不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
10258.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
10273.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
一般是直轄市是剩比較多直轄市剩的多因為它本身分配的一個統籌分配稅也比較多那屏東縣呢 屏東縣剩很多嗎屏東縣沒有屏東縣沒有剩很多啦 剩的還不夠啦所以今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
10274.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
10289.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
如果說來我們看一下今天三減預算的提案是台灣民眾黨黨團中國國民黨黨團他的提案文寫得很清楚三減總數如果未達939億7500萬利於補足叫行政院自己調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
10290.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
10303.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
因為我叫你減10公斤3公斤從屁股的肥肉減其他7公斤你自己看著辦那你是不是要從你會剁頭剁腳剁手嗎不會嘛你會從脂肪剁來減嘛那地方政府也有剩餘但是我今天要問的是說這636億你們同樣的都減25% |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
10309.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
10335.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
這對於財政 地方財政剩餘比較少的 甚至不足的 不公平你覺得有沒有這樣的感覺是 這個我們會檢討很好 那我們要看那現在呢 剛剛有人在一直問 下一頁今天什麼時候 藍白統三了 今年1月21嘛 是不是然後呢 行政院有沒有覺得不可行 有沒有 有有沒有提出呼籲有 我們熱愛南行3月12提出呼籲嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
10336.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
10357.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好 那麼 副議有沒有通過沒有通過副議沒有通過那剛剛有人一直在提到地方財政收支劃分法你知道現在新版的財劃法什麼時候公告通過的嗎3月263月26中午公布實施嘛3月21嘛是不是在副議遭否決之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
10359.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
10380.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
所以這些情況 裁判法在我們中央政府的預算要求你們自行調整636億之後才通過的裁判法並沒有適用今年度的中央政府總預算 是不是這樣好 那解放 民進黨在5月15號提出申請釋憲然後呢 院長在5月26號提出說 欸 或許可以再加預算那麼憲法法庭也受理了這個釋憲案 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
10382.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
10402.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
如果行政院沒有提追加預算或立法院多數黨團不願意提追加預算那你覺得釋憲是不是有一個機會是,我們也是希望能夠經過釋憲來做一個修正所以我要簡單講,就幾分鐘而已啦這個就是,如果說藍白的國會多數不願意來提追加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
10403.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
10430.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
不願意來接受提最佳預算我要強調一次喔 憲法規定啊立法院是不能為增加支出制決議的立法院不能提出要行政院提最佳預算但是如果最佳預算行政院沒有提我們就看視線了嘛 對不對好 往下看來 我問了一個問題 來謝謝陳主席長 我們現在問部長部長 我就要關心重大的事情啊美國的繡改新制偉大美利法案 他說什麼從美國匯款到境外的資金要匯款稅 有沒有聽過 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
10433.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
10447.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
最近有注意到這個問題但是這個法案目前沒有說明非美國公民或他美國人在美的合法投資後的資金會出會不會被剋有沒有這個部分我覺得詳細的細節還是要有在觀察但是要注意往下看現在台積電 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
10448.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
10464.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
台積電是在台灣上市的公司國際資金來這邊買他的股票他把資金當中1650億他去美國投資設了美國廠美國廠賣了晶片在美國的市場賣了晶片賺了錢現在他的這個錢資本利得到匯回台灣來按照這樣的美利偉大的法案會不會被課5%的匯款稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
10467.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
10474.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
有沒有可能這個部分我還是跟委員報告要看他們這個稅的詳細內容來講現在還有個899更可怕他說什麼他說這個當中還有報復性的稅要報復誰報復這些這些這些好對象是什麼各國的政府央行對不對外匯存底美元官方機構主權基金還有呢銀行授權業 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
10495.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
10513.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
他怎麼說 課稅的範圍 外資在美國的營業利得他的鼓勵或公司債的債息 會出的都含含在內還有稅率會達到20% 從5%開始他這邊提到一個對美國實施不公平租稅的歧視性外國什麼是歧視性外國 他說全球企業最低稅負 好往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
10515.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
10532.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
目前台灣有考慮基本稅額的條例的第八條有沒有考慮我們的實施全球企業最低稅負有沒有這個部分當然是在我們裡面有一個提案我們會從12條9到18一旦台灣做了這個事情台灣是不是就是實施這個899當中歧視性的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
10541.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
10564.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
沒有,應該也沒有,對是不是?如果我們實施了,就是他的嘛他說的歧視性外國嘛,899嘛,沒有宋組長為什麼不是?往上跳並沒有,對再往上跳,有沒有?還沒有如果他說對美國實施不公平的租稅的實境外國包括什麼?實施全球企業最低稅務,就寫在這裡啊台灣一旦實施了全球最低稅務制就是美國嚴重的歧視性外國,就要用899啊宋組長,你怎麼說? |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
10567.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
10587.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
報告委員,在他899裡面所稱的歧視性的待遇,所謂的包括DST我們叫社會服務稅,另外一個叫全球最低稅負制,並不是全部的全球最低稅負制所以說還要看觀察他的基本的內容,但是有可能會被美國視為是歧視性的外國,有可能你希望他不要? |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
10588.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
10609.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
但是你不知道他會不會據我們了解基本上是問美國的一些專家你問過川普我再來聽你的建議啦好來我們看一下如果按照這個莊部長如果中央銀行把我們的外匯存底在美國去持有美債還有我們授權公司到美國的投資收益根據899他要把這個錢匯回來台灣會不會遇到899的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
10614.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
10641.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我覺得這個部分還是要看最後他的界定如何以及我們實際的資金的一個情形好 你說他要看來 我再往上跳真的 還要再往上好 來 再看一次899說什麼課稅對象 外國政府 包括央行官方機構 包括主權基金日本農林中央金庫退休基金 包括什麼瑞典 挪威退休基金 勞退基金金融單位 銀行 保險公司公司企業 台積電寫得清清楚楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
10642.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
10666.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
到底有沒有細節怎麼樣我們很擔心啊部長你了解我們的擔心嗎台灣有沒有實施他所認定的全國最低全球企業最低稅務資也不知道台灣現在目前來說我們在實施的AMT還沒有到GMT的那個階段你認為還沒到GMT我們事實上還沒有到那個階段你可以跟我們全國現在關心那個課題的企業說明一下我們還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
10667.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
10694.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我們再逐步的再來看全球實施的一個情形台灣現在是多少 12到15嘛如果到達15了就是了嘛對不對15的還是AMT的這個部分未來的GMT我們會看其他國家實施的情形來推動剛剛有講到主權基金嘛最近我們政府有一個政策要再推動要構思 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
10696.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
10699.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
主權基金嘛是主權基金在不在899的韓社範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
10700.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
10722.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
第一個主權基金目前政策的方向是這樣但詳細的一個規劃目前來說還有國發會在邀請相關的部會在討論當中妳是不是相關部會之一財政部是妳是不是管稅務的主管機關財政部目前來說先就主權基金設立的話妳是管稅務的主管機關嗎他的裁員我們先討論裁員操作我說妳是中華民國政府負責主管財稅的機關嗎那當然你當然了解美國政府的財稅機關的思考嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
10727.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
10746.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
所以財政部的意見非常重要如果說未來我們國家建立主權基金根據這個899我們的主權基金的操作不是說一定要到美國不可啦但是主權基金如果是在投資的對象在美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
10747.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
10766.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那麼899的條款我們主權基金在美國投資賺了錢怎麼拿回來對 也就是說未來主權基金的操作我們當然要去觀察899條款的一個適用的情形那要去評估在那裡做這樣的主權基金的投資以及它的一個財務的操作適不適當以及在賦稅上的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
10767.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
10781.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
所以你要告訴軍管會我們的壽險業大部分的部位在海外很多都買美債是不是是有買美債的是有對 買美國公司債萬一這些壽險的海外部位受到899影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
10782.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
10799.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
財政部要不要提早預警當然我們要去了解899實質的一個內容以及影響在哪個方向所以我剛剛開玩笑我說宋署長我說你是沒有跟川普通過電話如果你跟他通過電話你今天也不會在這裡財政部長請評估美國稅改新案 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
10800.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
10813.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
偉大美麗法案對我國的影響、幅度以及嚴厲降低衝擊的方案一個月來本委員會提出一個書面報告,可以嗎?好,我們盡快先提供好,謝謝謝謝部長,謝謝署長,謝謝主席謝謝蔣委員的諮詢,現在請賴慧芸諮詢主席謝謝主席,有請主計長還有台南市護士長主計長,台南市的護士長 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
10833.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
10853.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
主席長 副市長早安我想行政院從去年8月將總預算送到立法院來審查現在已經超過9個月了主席長那距離立法院今天就是我們今年在1月21號三讀總預算到現在也有將近4個月其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
10854.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
10855.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
今天排這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
10874.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
10895.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
內容的一個委員會的那我們委員會今天排這一個預算其實我想我應該為台南講一些話那我在這裡請先請教主席長這個美國罕見警告就是藍白兩黨勿不要那個二億三減國防預算那到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
10896.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
10908.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
其實國民黨已經刪了在野黨已經刪了國防預算從國防部的武器設備及零件等等的一個軍事的裝備跟設施跟國軍的戰備工程他就刪了68.8億 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
10914.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
10935.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那我想在這裡我要特別請教主席長就是說為什麼為什麼就是說在美國他們會這麼強調就是說他們嚴厲的警告那當然這個就是關係到我們台灣深層的一個問題不知道你對這個案子有什麼樣的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
10935.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
10948.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
所以我們盡量要來確保我們的國防預算也希望逐漸達到GDP的3%以上然後往上逐漸來增加但是今年刪減的預算所以我們就沒有辦法刪減國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
10950.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
10973.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
立法院要求我們自行刪減636那636的話我們如果不刪一般性補助我們就必須要刪國防外交還有一個教育所以兩相權衡之下我們不得不才刪一般性補助款636這個部分那我們也是強調各縣市如果有問題我們行政院會全力來協助解決這個問題以上要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
10974.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
11001.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
當然主席長我們知道你在平衡就是我們台灣的每一個地方每一個地方政府的一個經濟面所以你做了揮就是說不得已的一些就是資源上的一個分配那我們從地方自治那個制度法跟財政收支劃分法裡頭我們去看到了這一些法源那當然這個有沒有違憲我們已經提出了這樣的一個違憲了違憲的一個視線的 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
11004.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
11009.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
一個那個動作了那我們知道就是說在上個月上個月那個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
11012.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
11040.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
在上個月就葉澤山護士長在我們的行政院會議裡頭有特別建議行政院就是用追加預算的一個方式來處理解決地方面臨到的一個困難因為在這一次的統三預算還有收支劃分法裡頭其實台南是一個最困境的又被刪了最多也被凍了最多那是不是護士長你可以說明一下就是說在我們財政這麼困難的狀況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
11042.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
11060.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那你們建議用什麼樣的一個方式來追加這個預算謝謝賴委員對地方政府一般性補助款被刪除的這樣子的困境的一個關心那因為這一次立法院刪除了中央的總預算2076億那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
11064.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
11092.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
行政院也是做出了非常困難的決定才會刪除地方的所謂的一般性的一個補助款我想這個可以理解不過這的確造成了地方上在今年度預算執行各項計畫執行上非常大的一個困境所以台南市政府跟其他縣市都是一樣面臨這樣子的一個困難所以各縣市也都提出了因應的一些策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
11092.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
11109.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那有些縣市是提出了所謂的訴願但是依照訴願法的話那提到行政院行政院在三個月之內要做出決定但是可以再展延兩個月我相信各地方政府沒有辦法等五個月因為現在已經是六月份了 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
11109.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
11126.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
如果再等到5月份到12月了那其實都沒有意義了所以過去因為台南市政府也曾在100年的時候被議會刪除了38億所以當時候就是用追加預算的方式來解決了當時候的一個困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
11127.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
11155.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
所以我們在上個禮拜在黃偉哲市長特別的指示之下我們在行政院會特別提出了請行政院考量用追加預算的方式來解決目前地方政府所遭遇到的一些困境那也謝謝行政院很快的來同意用追加預算的方式但是如果沒有立法院立委們大家的一個支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
11156.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
11170.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我想這等於是空談所以我想在這裡也要特別拜託我們各位立委能夠考量到地方政府今年度各項計畫已經都在執行或是它是延續性的一個計畫不能夠停 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
11172.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
11200.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
所以要拜託各位立委們大家來共同支持行政院的追加預算那我想這是干擾體制最低最低而且最及時有效的方式啦好 干擾體制最低也是最快的一個方式啦我們知道就是說台南在六都的統籌分配款裡頭其實我們不僅是分配的最少也是增加的最少的啦那在這裡我要請教主計長如果一 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
11201.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
11222.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
那個台南市政府就是說他提出的一個追加預算的一個方式那如果是可行啦如果是可行那那個主席長這個需要多少的時間你可以去匯集地方政府的需求跟意見然後向行政院提出這個追加預算呢各位委員報告其實我們剛剛講的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
11225.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
11241.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
一般性補助的部分他主要是在調節縣市的不均衡那所以一般直轄市他分配61%的統籌分配稅那其他縣市是24%那這有基本上的不公平的現象所以我們就會透過一般性補助來把它彌平來 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
11243.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
11264.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
讓各縣市之間能夠達到一些的均衡所以一般縣市補助它的功用是在這裡跟統總分配稅款是按照營業稅那些的不一樣所以這個台南市的部分它在一般性的補助款的刪減部分它就會刪得比較多那主計長你一般性的補助的數額你怎麼去決定它呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
11265.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
11291.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
對我們就是按他一個基本的一個三項基本財政的一個項目然後再加一個增育財源就是說我補助你讓你比去年更多的一個部分這個除了定額補助以外還有一個增育財源這主要是這些項目但是現在就是說我們刪減了台南市有提出要追加預算但是追加預算也必須要符合追加預算的一個要件那第二個還要看你說時間要多少那必須要看 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
11292.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
11317.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
提出追加預算的一個項目第三個還要是說我們提出追加預算的部分要貴委員會貴院要能夠來支持那這才有用所以本身我們自己在追加預算的一個籌編的部分時間必須要看我們提追加預算項目的多寡這樣那一般總預算它項目很多就大概需要三個月那如果項目不是那麼多我們可能盡量縮短時間以上一個補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
11320.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
11348.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
所以最少三個月啦好 主席長我再請教你就是說那個行政院今天統三一般性的補助款這個合不合法它的法律依據在哪裡因為行政院已經決定在今年統三一般性的補助款25%囉那我們相對的我們台南也會減少52億那到底這個統三一般性的補助款到底是不是那個合法那你的法律依據在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
11349.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
11369.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
是 其實我們依照地方制度法第69條的一個規定我們對於 中央對於財力較差的一個縣市著予補助而且還要橫著我們自己中央的一個力量來做一個補助所以我們現在三一般性補助款我們也沒有違反相關的一個法令的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
11370.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
11394.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
所以是在沒有違法那如果在沒有違法的前提之下我們都知道在1月21號就是立法院已經三讀通過2025年的中央政府的總預算案可是審查這個審查的這一個預算案是由多數席次的在野黨他們專制去主導那其實在這種非常混亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
11395.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
11412.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那非常草率的就是通過了刪讀甚至沒有宣讀沒有宣讀就是刪減後的稅出的總額那如果因為這樣子這麼混亂的一個狀況之下那你來刪除這個一般性的一個補助款我可不可以這樣講呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
11413.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
11441.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
是因為立法院刪除的一個要我們進行刪減636那金額盤納實在是自愛難行那另外也會造成政策成敗無所歸屬然後責任政治難以建立所以這個部分呢我們也提出復議但是復議又被維持原決議所以這個部分我們現在仍然在申請釋憲當中所以我們是盡所有的一個救濟程序的一個能力來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
11443.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
11450.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
好 謝謝我想主席加油好 謝謝賴昭偉的執行謝謝 下一位請李昆哲委員執行請謝謝昭偉 我們請主席長主席長請來 主席長好是 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
11472.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
11483.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
請問一下齁 這個在野黨啊 有議員說這個三種預算呢 是砍一些吃吃喝喝的錢請問一下 這砍預算是砍掉吃吃喝喝的錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
11485.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
11514.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
主席長是 它主要是砍的部分因為它是1439億那裡面有1000億就是台電嘛然後其他的項目就是大陸地區的一個旅會砍了80%國外旅費和出國教育訓練砍了60%還有媒體和政策業務宣導會砍60%還有一個特別會刪減60%那部分機關它有的是全部刪除像行政院像法務部它特別會全部刪除那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
11514.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
11532.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
政業黨的立委有講說這次砍掉總預算是砍掉吃吃喝的錢這公平嗎不是這是都是一般行政作業的一個費用那砍除以後他對於一個行政事務的一個推動是有他的一個困難在那有一些現在連電費都付不出來所以他現在都是用舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
11533.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
11550.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
借的或者欠債的一個方式來執行那台東甚至於他拿那個執行長還拿他自己的房子去租借去借錢然後來做執行的一個費用所以這個部分我們還是希望能夠透過最佳的一個方式來把它一個彌品 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
11551.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
11568.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
好那因為這次這個在野黨砍了預算那其中有636億這個是屬於說要我們行政機關自己去刪減的部分那有台北市長講完他就講了啊他說要溯源然後連本代曆討回來我聽不懂這什麼意思我也不清楚什麼叫做連本代曆討回來他可能說遲延要加濟利息啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
11581.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
11595.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
什麼?食鹽撥款要加低利息我看了一下你們所提供的資料這包含我自己新北市在內的這個今年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
11597.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
11617.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
中央政府對於新北市的統籌分配款跟一般性的補助款今年度是983億然後呢去年度113年度呢是914億那換言之呢我們今年對於新北市的這個補助呢比去年多了69億這個數字有沒有錯是 是正確的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
11620.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
11649.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
就是說我們中央政府對於新北市的補助含統籌分配款、一般性補助款加起來比去年多了69億成長7.5%這有沒有問題對 這是三減後的仍然要增加68.5億約百分之七點多就是說有刪掉了大概30億左右但是中央政府對於新北市的補助人比去年還多是 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
11650.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
11658.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那我看了一下你們所提供的資料就六都來講新北成長7.5%台北成長8.9%桃園8.2%台中5.8%台南3.8%高雄14.1%對於六都的補助都比去年還要多那這是在扣掉這個一般性的補助款之後這個數字有錯嗎沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
11676.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
11693.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
所以換言之就算是有按照立法院在野黨的決議扣掉了這個一般性的補助館之後我們中央政府對於至少直轄市我新北市的補助都比去年都還要多是 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
11694.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
11712.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
都比去年都還要多那現在有地方政府還在講啊就是說如果你扣掉他們的一般性補助款他們可能有一些基本的教育啦社會福利啦這些政策這些設施都沒辦法做那請問一下會有這些影響嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
11714.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
11743.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
事實上我們要刪減之前我們都會盤算各縣市政府他大概他的一個稅計剩餘或者是說他舉債的一個空間那事實上我們刪減會影響的是稅入啦所以稅入的部分呢你如果說可以遵檢一些相關的一個支出然後到年底的時候也可以由自己的累積剩餘來去做填補或者是說由舉債來做舉債那換言之我再問一下主席長就是說我們刪減部分是屬於他對他們的稅務的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
11744.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
11768.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
是那他們如果講那些不管是教育啦社福啦這些支出是屬於稅出的部分對 照案執行的部分他如果是照案執行會有一些調度上的一個問題那所以他們也可以不要去刪這一些項目嗎是 沒有刪 稅出沒有刪啦對啊 那所以今天如果按照他們的邏輯是他們要去刪那些項目時不是我們叫他們去刪那些項目的啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
11769.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
11788.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
所以我聽到很多的直轄市或是縣市的代表有上來講他說一般性補助款刪掉之後那他們一些社福啊教育啊都會受到影響那不是中央政府叫他們去刪的是他們這些科目裡面他們要去做調整他們去刪了這些科目是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
11789.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
11808.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
所以這個部分 稅出的部分我們是沒有動它影響的是稅入那稅出的部分呢就是可能它可能要用以前年度的稅計剩餘來做一個調整或者是說它要刪減一些它不必要的支出來做調整對 就是說他們稅出有很多的項目他們也可以去 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
11810.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
11826.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
刪除一些我們認為是非必要性的支出就不用去動到比如說他們講的教育啊社會福利的支出嘛對不對所以如果他們今天這樣子做的話那我覺得這些地方政府對不起這些縣市民啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
11827.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
11847.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
為什麼要去刪掉這些教育、社會的支出?更何況中央對於地方的補助,我剛才講了,至少就我新北市來講是增加的這沒有問題吧?那我也看到有一份公文,這其實我自己去年也收到類似的公文就是說我們有爭取一些地方性的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
11849.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
11866.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
但是呢我都看到那個公文公文它上面有寫說上開的補助呢如今立法院審議結果有所刪減的時候將一起審議結果配合調整那這個是除了是我們自己所爭取的這些地方性的預算之外你們在去年的8月30號 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
11868.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
11885.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
也發了一個文應該是給全國的縣市政府就是說一般性的補助款呢這個編列還有執行的應注意事項也特別的提到就是說如果立法院審議結果有所刪減按照其審議結果配合調整嘛這是去年8月30號就給地方政府的文對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
11887.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
11903.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
所以理論上他們都知道有可能因為中央政府總運算受到影響的時候比如說今年中央政府總運算被砍了2076億所以我們對於地方的這個一般性的補助款就會有影響是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
11904.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
11922.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
因為如果說是可能有影響或者是說某部分的縣市他執行有困難那這個部分我們都會全力來一個協助他把他這個困難來解決是這樣那所以你有先提醒這個縣市政府是有可能8月30都有提醒了對因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
11923.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
11948.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
預算今年的預算是1月21通過的所以你們在去年8月底那這個是例行性的發文還是說特別去年有發這個文例行性都有發文那就表示說這個因為一般性的補助款有可能因為總預算的結果會受到調整就對了是因為中央政府必須要衡佐自己的財力去做佐與補助而不是全部要補助是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
11949.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
11972.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
好 那請教一下 那所以今天在野黨的這個決議 它說我們違法 請問一下有違法嗎是 依照規定我們這個部分調解沒有違法相關的一個法令啊他們說要按照新的財化法啊 新的財化法已經通過啦對於這個一般性的補助款啊 這個不能低於去年的這個補助啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
11973.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
11989.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
所以因為我們是114年度的時候他已經公布了3月21然後後來新財化法有通過那新財化法通過的部分他是上年度所以我們是以115年度籌編的來算他的上年度是114年度的一個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
11991.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
12004.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
所以說這個財化法通過在後總預算通過在前那如果說要適用的話也是明年115年度的事情那所以現在這一般性的補助款刪減了636億是合於法律規定就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
12008.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
12023.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
好 那請問一下那當然啦 大家還是不希望說預算有刪掉這麼多我們也不希望說中央政府總預算被刪掉這麼多那有任何的補救方法嗎我聽這個院長還有事講說可以利用追加預算的方式來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
12024.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
12044.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
是,如果要最佳,第一個必須符合最佳的一個相關的法令的規定第二個也必須要立法院這邊能夠支持所以我們也懇請立法院能夠支持那我們就可以把這個部分來做一個調整那可是就時間上來講,現在已經是六月份了我們會盡量來趕 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
12046.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
12073.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
如果說因為這個主動權是在行政院也不是在立法院那如果因為這樣子的話那會在這個會期提出來嗎我們這個如果說各單位各縣市的建議那我們會把它拿回去然後跟院長來一個做一個討論然後也跟院長來做建議希望要這樣做調整然後讓各縣市都能夠得到一個反檢那所以這個會期有機會提出來就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
12075.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
12081.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
好 謝謝主席長 謝謝主席謝謝李委員的諮詢 現在邀請公共委員諮詢 請感謝主席 邀請陳主席長跟財政部長部長陳主席現在已經11點50 所以可以發片到等到公共委員結束以後 我們休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
12101.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
12122.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
先請主計長剛剛有提到說有關於這個特別預算的這個部分最佳預算的部分最佳預算的部分你說這個會期會提出來嘛對不對就你個人的理解最佳預算基本上的合法性怎麼樣就是要符合規定啦那你認為現在有符合規定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
12123.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
12143.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
你是說一般性補助款因為我們這個部分就是說要朝向說這個部分是屬於法律或者是屬於重大的一個建設那有嗎我看不太出來有符合其實基本上我們希望解決問題但是核補法 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
12143.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
12161.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
合不合法才是一個關鍵嘛對不對那剛剛你又提到說你這個會期要提出來我聽起來是有矛盾啦這是第一點第二點的部分呢我想要就教於您的部分呢這次桶或山都超過過去的紀錄但山已經山了沒有辦法這洞的部分呢的部分有可能解 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
12162.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
12187.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
動的部分有兩個,一個是委員會解,另外一個是院會解就你所知道的部分動在這次的金融戰中,佔總預算大概多少那委員會解動的比例大概多少,還剩下多少沒有在院會裡頭做解動現在我們動解的有1381億那解的怎麼樣那目前解的部分大概是有幾個還沒解 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
12189.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
12215.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
數字沒關係你待會再給本席啦我們事後再來做一個回覆沒關係就整體來說我們說要解決這個目前刪了過度嚴重的問題嘛就是說你本來統刪的部分有高達939億然後現在補足的部分又透過363億來刪除這個一般補助款刪了之後呢現在呢有人說提出溯源你認為溯源可能嗎 可行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
12217.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
12231.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
對 這個要看溯源委員會對 那要看溯源委員會就是法律上我們就站在主管機關來說你要去考慮說這溯源有沒有可行你要去面對因為你是被溯源的對象嘛然後溯源到行政院當中能不能溯源 要溯源到何時有沒有可能這個都是一個大問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
12232.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
12247.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以我這樣聽一聽追加預算的可能性不大可能不合法然後溯源也不可行所以已經造成一個一般補充款被刪除的事實這要跟所有的各縣市政府講清楚啦不要讓大家有充滿錯誤的期待我覺得第一點要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
12250.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
12269.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
第二點呢你在三個過程當中以一般性補助款來說它有基本的原則它應該均贏區域的平均發展嘛對不對所以說你要依照這個財務能力自有財源來看嘛你看看以六都來說自有財源最高的是台北市93%最低的是台南市55%可是你為什麼大刀一挥全部都砍27% |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
12272.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
12295.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
沒道理嘛 這只是好到你而已每一個人來講說 我很公平 我都刪27%可是你這種刪除的方式 跟你補助的方式原則就不一樣刪除的方式跟補助的方式原則不一樣你應該是有財源比較好 你應該刪多一點啊你是有財源比較差 你刪一樣多 這不公平嘛老實說 已經不得不刪 當然我們要面對你也是不得不 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
12296.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
12315.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
誰叫黃國昌要提這個案誰叫藍白他們要聯合舉手通過這個案子對不對可是他們又不敢面對這個問題又弄一個假的一個方式想要透過訴願的方式來推卸責任那是不可能的事情嘛這打假球嘛推卸責任嘛實在推卸責任嘛所以這種問題上你問你不能解釋清楚為什麼當初你要一刀砍沒道理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
12319.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
12326.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我們是參照立法院通山的一個原則通山金額啦通山金額你怎麼可以通山所有的縣市這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
12328.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
12349.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
你們要檢討一下嘛怎麼可以一般性的補助款的原則就是要調劑各區的營需不同然後平衡區域發展原則是這樣子你一般去給的時候就這樣子三怎麼可以不顧這個原則呢這我是最大的質疑在這邊啦主席長你稍微休息一下你回去檢討一下第二個部分我想請教一下莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
12350.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
12370.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
部長你有沒有確定發現喔這個宮古銀行喔那到多少一間一間都發現事情啊從台灣銀行這個詐騙集團土地銀行這個行員挪用租金第一銀行又有協助詐騙集團開戶合作銀行合作金庫又變成是台大醫院來進行收款之後招欠部長問題出在哪裡啊28號不是有開過會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
12378.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
12404.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
軟刺不是開會嗎開完之後有什麼決定有什麼好的解決方法說一下好不好我覺得這個第一個就是我們的公股行庫應該對於內控的機制還要做加強因為事實上有法規的相關的規範要做規定的話那落實執行非常重要如果徒有規定沒有落實執行其實是等於是枉然的所以因此應該要在內控的部分要加強去做集合 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
12405.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
12415.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那有什麼方法 你這是道德宣示嘛不是 那我們當然對於一個公股負責人的部分在考評的時候這部分都會納入的一個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
12416.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
12433.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我覺得老實講這種事情一直一而再再而三出現部長跟那個署長都要加油啦這種事情老是在發生這很漏氣耶公股銀行是應該最有公信力的地方耶那天5月28號好像還討論到一個問題嘛還討論到不動產融資的問題管控的問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
12437.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
12460.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那問一下現階段來說我看到青青安的這個核對的這個項目3月比去年少了22% 4月比同期少了40%嘛那一說是皇室降溫啦 那一說呢是公股審查變嚴格啦那我只問一個問題啦 部長到底現在還有多少水位可以給首個族給這一個青青安帶的人啊 依照你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
12461.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
12482.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
各個銀行的那個水位其實他們在網路上都有一些公告也就是說第一個銀行法有30%的一個天條的限制那他們也有內部的一個預警的比例那目前的預警比都在預警比例的範圍內所以目前來說所以你沒有掌握真正的數字就是了嗎台灣銀行有你後面是你會後數字在給本席啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
12484.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
12504.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這個應該對外講清楚 基本上水位沒有問題水位沒有問題 對水位沒有問題 讓大家能夠安心然後這個供苦分壇要怎麼解決 你要講清楚不是道德喊話而已啦或事後處罰我覺得這個效果都非常有限啦好不好 部長加油啦然後後面一個部分我想要問一下那個國有財產署 國有財產署部長你注意一下 你在旁邊聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
12513.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
12530.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那個陳組長你有一個那個政策我本席是蠻肯定的就是要提供公園、綠地、兒童這三個地目給地方政府來建立這個共榮的公園這很好那我想問一下這個到底有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
12531.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
12555.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
沒有去統計過嗎目前還沒有因為會發這個新聞稿是之前有地方政府要來申請但是跟都市計畫的這個容許使用有問題所以我們會跟內政部國土署這邊開過計畫那就是同意像公園市場還有兒童遊戲場這些地方政府本來要開闢的或要 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
12556.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
12572.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
要來佈用的還沒有完成這些手續但是要建立這個設施的時候我們先用委託管理的方式來提供不用因為我們國有土地的提供而耽誤了這些設施的設計你們現在只是強調不要一案一案申請就同胞來申請嘛看起來是這樣子嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
12573.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
12590.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
如果可以的話我是建議署長你把這些地目全部做一個統籌的了解概括性的了解但是這些土地的取得需要經費的部分怎麼處理才是一個很現實的問題他們大部分都是有經費之後才會來跟我要土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
12591.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
12606.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
對 都是有這個現實的問題但是地方的需求卻很高啦我們如何把公跟徐之類的問題來同時面對來做一個解決啦那另外一個問題我也跟您說一下還有一個是停車場的部分有這樣的需求啦麻煩你把公園跟停車場的部分一併納入啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
12607.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
12625.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
報告 其實各縣市政府都知道台南市政府我們也都有跟市長這邊都談過了我是希望說一個通盤的檢討那問題你點在哪裡我們來想一下到底是公方的問題還是區方的問題可以嗎是好 麻煩署長另外因為我再請一下主計長上來一下好不好 主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
12633.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
12656.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
主長現階段我說實在的地方的公園大家都很需要因為現在預算都三三三砍砍砍但是地方的需求還是不斷是不是在這個部分有可能跟相關單位的時候去告知說將來在整個預算配置的上面特別公園的部分或停車場的部分有的是屬於交通部有的是屬於內政部這個地方需求很強 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
12657.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
12672.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
那個主席長他們在這個整個預算在編列的時候提醒他們一下考量一下地方的需求啦我要跟委員報告啦我要跟委員報告就是財化法它本身分配的非常的不平均那所以以中央來講它要3.3753億 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
12675.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
12702.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那他要刪減其實要優先刪減的就會是對地方補助的一個計畫型的一個補助就會受到更大的排擠對不對一定會受到排擠所以這部分是不得不也沒辦法很困擾但是明年呢我們要面對這個問題了嘛裁判接下來我們要面對這個問題是一個大問題嘛比今天我們要處理一般性的補助款更大嘛可是這個地方的需求還是一段的增加譬如講我再跟你問一個問題就是交通部也提一個公路建設的改善計畫中間有60億的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
12705.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
12726.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
聽說行政院到現在還沒有辭職還沒有核准嘛還在卡關嘛因為沒辦法核也就是因為裁判法的問題因為這個問題一直卡在這邊這不是辦法啊這就是一切都是亂三預算的結果造成地方建設的停滯嘛在野黨亂搞胡搞瞎搞所造成的結果我今天對每個人都一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
12743.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
12760.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
休息了休息 睡不著睡不著打不定你啊 給他們治療一下給我喝一點我要喝了 我不喝 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
12771.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
12772.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
10分钟以后就开了 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
12804.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
12804.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
12854.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
12854.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
蝦仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
12889.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
12890.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
謝謝大家。 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
12924.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
12932.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
12950.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
12977.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
12985.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
13003.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳是一間餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
13014.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
13035.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
13047.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
13061.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
這裏是北京大廈的廟宇 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
13077.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
13106.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
大家好,歡迎來到我的頻道 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
13122.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
13126.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這位你吃好了嗎要幫你收拾你先收拾好了好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
13160.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
13160.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
13179.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
13196.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
13202.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
13205.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
蕃茄酱 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
13299.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
13301.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
13333.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
13333.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
太好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
13360.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
13362.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
向委員會報告我們繼續開會請李燕秀委員質詢請 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
13380.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
13402.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
好 謝謝主席我可不可以請主席長還有我們台北市政府的林華副市長林華副市長 主席長苗栗縣的邱麗麗副縣長苗栗縣邱副縣長我們桃園市的桃園市的秘書長對 還有我們連江縣連江縣的王縣長是王縣長 不是秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
13410.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
13433.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
好 主席長你先往前一下齁我先確認一下去年113年12月30號這個簡報這一張是不是你的畫紅線這是你做給我們立法院的報告一般性的補助款不能減少依法律意義之初皆屬相關法律規定無法因財政困難而予刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
13441.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
13468.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這是你寫的嘛好 謝謝主席長所以我要提醒你不要著是驚飛不要今天的主席長打臉去年的主席長謝謝主席長主席長你可以回位子請坐好 我先請麗華副市長副市長 我剛才聽到你的報告跟說明我也看到我們一般性補助款做長照 做教育 做基礎設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
13470.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
13483.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
這些種種種種的費用我請問副市長這哪一項這次刪掉39億對不對台北市一般性的補助款37.9億37.9億2500億對台北市的影響37.9億我要請問副市長你要刪掉哪一塊哪一塊是你能撿的哪一項都沒辦法撿 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
13496.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
13521.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
每一項都很重要齁當然都沒辦法減因為都是照顧到弱勢還有兒少跟老人跟教育所以一個都不能少我看到是照顧學校照顧長輩做學校做基礎建設更重要的是預算已經編列送到台北市議會所有的讀論做基礎工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
13522.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
13535.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
做坡路 鋪馬路 照顧臥室 照顧長輩 沒有一樣可以省所以 主計長也在這邊 你也做過台南市政府的主計長就請主計長來指導我們 要怎麼刪 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
13540.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
13555.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
不然的話 到時候變成蔣萬安市長 李英王副市長再三長輩的費用 再三育兒津貼我覺得這個要請中央指導我們 好不好所以這時候要拜託立法院能夠協助我們地方把相關的一般性補助款可以順利的撥給我們來執行 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
13558.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
13570.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
謝謝 您也要附上我接下來是不是請苗栗縣苗栗縣是我知道全國唯二兩個縣市不能舉在一個是宜蘭 一個是苗栗縣我請邱麗麗副縣長您來回應這個地方補助款25%對你們的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
13576.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
13588.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
謝謝委員首先我要跟委員報告就是苗栗縣政府是唯一全國被財政異常控管而且是完全無法舉債的一個縣市那我們從105年的舉債389.76億已經到現在我們已經降低到346.69億一共清償了43億所以其實我們的財政基本上有 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
13602.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
13618.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
困難的時候我們還是努力的調整自己的一個財政情形同時也要兼顧相關的一個民生建設以及社福以及教育那因此苗栗在如此高依賴中央政府補助來支援我們施政需求的同時呢我可以舉一個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
13619.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
13623.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我們114年的總稅率為279.61億元那其中地方政府要自籌的是56.11億元佔20%而中央補助是223.5億 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
13638.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
13643.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
高達百分之八十佔比是百分之八十而且這些預算已經都按照原額編列完成也經過我們議會的審議尤其我們現在經過這個中央政府行政院已經合併我們是要來主辦桃竹娘 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
13655.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
13658.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
大矽谷的一個計畫之一的一個縣市所以我們地方的一個基礎的建設以及相關的社福都一再的影響我們大矽谷未來的一個執行潛力因此我們現在從對不起委員因為我們現在從113年本來 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
13671.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
13673.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我們中央主計處合併給我們的是102億9582萬元現在修正之後高達把我們整個刪除掉的有28億1233萬也就減幅達到了27% |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
13687.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
13691.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
然後我們合併之後只剩74億8480億萬元這樣子如此高的一個三減額對我們後續的執行相關的社福跟甚至張羅未來的地方創生的這個大細股都會影響非常非常的巨大 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
13706.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
13718.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這個一般性補助款 邱鎮軍委員在線他都非常關心造成苗栗短掃66.9億我們現在苗栗每一年的總預算才279億這個短掃的差額其實佔將近十分之一的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
13726.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
13730.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
所以主席長您在這邊您也指導一下既不能取債的縣市然後又要負擔辦大活動也好而且預算已經編列完成而且已經審議完畢實在不知道怎麼對議會交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
13742.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
13743.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
跟委員補充報告我們明年還要協助中央政府來籌辦這個2026年的台日觀光高峰論壇2027年我們還要協助中央政府來辦理台灣燈會 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
13759.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
13780.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那這些都是非常重大的支出報告主計長我們沒有要跟你吵架啦他在講什麼你很聽得懂都是協助中央政府這都是中央的很多工作對方來執行所以請主計長告訴我們我們要刪減要哪一樣他既不能借錢你要叫他怎麼辦好來我最後邀請我們縣長桃園對不對桃園這邊來 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
13788.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
13808.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我想桃園的弱勢的民眾孩子其實他不知道發生什麼事他只知道他原來114年應該有的身心障礙的弱勢的日照社會保險的補助還有低收入弱勢兒童的醫療補助現在可能都沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
13809.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
13837.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那我了解主計處的邏輯看到今天主計處的報告第三頁特別提到113年很多的縣市都有很多的剩餘只有一個沒有那個短處57億是誰是桃園市那桃園市正在發展正在成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
13838.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
13846.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我們也默默的承受了全世界最大的天然氣的一個等於是發電站所以我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
13848.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
13867.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
卻沒有辦法拿到我們一般性補助款這個對桃園市來講影響非常的大那我們希望能夠這個主計長能夠像剛才回應有幾位委員提到對於縣市財政比較不好的包括我們有短處的希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
13868.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
13885.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
額外於考慮,這是我們今天來的最主要目的好,依法一般性不住,是不能刪的所以一開始我已經講了,他們這些報告也說不能刪好,我最後請那個我們的連江縣縣長縣長您辛苦了,來自社員的地方,來我是,縣長今天沒空,我是秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
13887.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
13905.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
是 谢谢委员连江县是全国最小的县市那我们虽然这三个总额并不多三亿六千五百万可是以比例来说还是到27.3亿我应该这样讲我们这个自筹款才三亿八千万这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
13906.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
13924.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
可是這次的刪掉就三億六千五百萬所以對我們來講我們是五級的財政狀況所以自籌款就已經三億八千萬三億六千萬對我們地方來講是非常非常大的負擔我簡單因為時間到我就不多講是希望中央能夠把這個部分還是給補給我們謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
13926.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
13948.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
好 那我想大家的心聲應該主席長都有聽到請主席長再指導我們到底要三哪些每一塊都是社福 每一塊都是教育都是各縣市政府第一線要做基礎建設而且預算都已經編列審訊完畢那就請主席長還有一些是承擔中央的很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
13950.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
13968.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
活動 或者是已經答應要辦的活動 錢從哪裡來你們不想做壞人 你們在指責說是 立法院刪減預算但是一般性補助款你們自己也講說不能刪那所以 指導我們 後續要怎麼做處理好 謝謝 以上好 謝謝李委員的質詢 下一位請嚴寬和委員質詢請 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
13981.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
13988.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
主席各位列席 官員大家早 主席有請台中市政府市長政府市長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
13996.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
14013.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
14013.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
14031.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
政府卻大砍我們地方政府的一般性補助款那台中市以台中市為例每年上繳的1400億以上去年是2000億那總共6年加起來是超過9000億啦上繳中央嘛那這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
14032.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
14052.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
大大會砍掉我們地方性補助款27%對於這些刪減的內容包括低收入家庭兒童及學生生活輔導社會救助社福經費等等那我想先請教副市長你可不可以告訴我們台中市被刪減這個一般性補助款之後對台中市有造成多大的危害 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
14052.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
14069.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
好 謝謝委員 首先我想做一個澄清早上吳秉慧委員他可能因為不是台中的委員所以他可能聽到別人任意議員的說法說台中市這邊的這個一般性補助款還比去年的多 為什麼不能做事這個可能是錯誤的資訊那麼我們在這個中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
14072.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
14097.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
幫我們就是說把我們的這個一般性補助款做的統三之後減少27.3%之後呢我們剩下的一般性補助款是86.1億那我們去年的預算呢這是在一般性補助款的部分是109.8億換言之今年如果被統三的話呢我們的一般性補助款是比去年要少了20多億所以今年會比去年少如果三的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
14097.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
14114.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
所以吳秉偉所言他只有講的說這個今年比去年的多基本上是沒有這個事情我在這邊第一個要特別的澄清那麼第二點呢剛剛有很多的縣市都討論了說有些我們的委員說很多縣市政府都有所謂的暫餘或者說財政的這個狀況是良好很不好意思台中並不是這樣台中在去年已經111 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
14120.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
14129.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
四年度我們的預算是短處94億短處94億換言之是入不敷出的入不敷出的部分就已經需要靠舉債來擬貧所以呢剛剛包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
14133.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
14139.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那幾個縣市也有特別的請命希望主計處這邊能夠針對財政有短處的縣市應該要特別的重視我們的財政狀況那麼剛剛委員有提到我們統三是減少了27.3%多那麼事實上如果我們把它拆開來的話跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
14157.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
14167.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那在總共大概有社福 社會福利的經費那麼還有教育的經費可是社會福利對台中的影響是特別大的它超過了27%它的顯幅是高達34.02%因為它修正後是大概37億5000多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
14174.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
14177.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
原來是56億9千多萬 接近57億那麼減少了19億3620萬那它影響的會有哪些呢 跟委員報告包括低收入戶的家庭兒童就學生活補助他們影響的有4億多 影響有8萬人次以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
14193.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
14219.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那麼中低收入戶的老人生活津貼在老人這個部分影響是3億5千多萬影響了有4萬8千多人次喔那麼身心障礙者的部分呢在生活補助上會影響9億6千多萬影響有15萬人次的身心障礙者的生活補助另外還有國民年金的保費補助影響有2億多那麼一估的影響是有35萬多人次那麼在教育的部分呢跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
14220.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
14235.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
原來核定數是30多億修正後少了5億剩下25億多減少18.56%這會影響教育的部分是哪邊呢包括幼生的就學補助跟育兒的津貼補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
14237.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
14262.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
育兒津貼跟就學補助我也很了解在現在這個少子化的趨勢年輕夫妻生活特別辛苦時期的這個趨勢這個就學補助跟育兒津貼其實是特別需要的一個部分所以在這邊我們其實想要欲請中央一定要重視一般性補助款在這個預算額度上面以及在它的應用項目上面是非常的重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
14262.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
14285.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那麼不要讓大家覺得說最近常常在討論的什麼中正路中山路經國路的改名那中央說只要願意改我經費就給那結果呢真正大家需要的育兒津貼就學津貼我要的時候說錢不夠那為什麼會這樣大家都很好奇很疑惑是的是的我想今年通過的是最高的總預算現在政府有最多的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
14286.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
14308.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
但是他沒有辦法做事情拿了兩兆九千億但是他說他不能做事情那我們看看台中市政府每一年上繳給中央的這六年超過九千億每一年分配回來給市府的不到一千億啦所以這個部分地方政府努力的在創稅在收稅上繳給中央但是你中央現在大刀一砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
14310.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
14313.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
這個政治報復你的理由是說什麼你的理由是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
14317.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
14342.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
立法院刪除預算所以行政院就拿弱勢群體該有的補助款來威脅那全民其實現在都看得很清楚不是統刪不是刪減的問題結果變成是執政黨的政治報復那犧牲掉的是誰剛剛我們在那個主席長也有提到說這個國防外交教育都不能刪那我請教一下國防今年增加多少較去年國防增加400億 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
14344.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
14357.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
教育呢?300億貴府呢?306億交通呢?389億內政超過400億每一個部會的預算都增加錢都增加但是我們的政府沒辦法做事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
14358.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
14385.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
找理由要來砍我們地方政府的一般性補助款再來一般性補助款是什麼法定義務支出行政機關不該任意的偵檢如果地方政府拒絕提供預算或決算資料的時候中央可以停播但是地方政府有拒絕嗎有嗎 沒有啊那行政院濫權刪除一般性補助款這是不是開民主倒車現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
14388.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
14415.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
砍了25%所以這個部分我想大家都很清楚啦不是沒有錢是不想給不想給誰我們這些弱勢的民眾政府認為說弱勢的民眾不應該擁有這些錢所以他不給這心態可異啦所以我想在這邊我要跟主席長講主席長你剛剛提到的說合法合規為什麼我們所了解的法定義務支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
14416.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
14438.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
法律規定這是法律的紅線喔你不可以刪減一般性的補助款而且就算你這個法律規定就是要比上個年度的更高不能更低除非啊剛剛有提到說拒絕提供預算或預算資料並沒有發生這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
14439.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
14457.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
所以我想今天很清楚的我們各縣市的這個副市長或者是我們的這個都到現場來的那我們希望的大家來到這邊就是表示表達我們的心聲不要為了一個政治的報復來去刪減到我們需要在 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
14459.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
14478.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
地方上最需要補助最需要幫助的我們所有的這些弱勢族群包括我們長者長者的費用還有我們這些兒童需要照顧的費用所以今天我們在這邊強烈的要求希望主計總處我們主計長好好的回去反映一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
14481.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
14503.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
趕快這個懸崖勒馬不要再做這樣的事情讓我們地方政府好做事讓我們地方政府可以好好對待我們地方的鄉親努力的創稅讓我們的稅收可以增加好不好好謝謝我們謝謝顏坤仁委員接著我們請黃珊珊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
14512.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
14516.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
主席 請主席長跟財政部長陳主席長 莊部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
14523.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
14545.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
好,部長跟主席,我想財政委員會在這個議場裡面已經講過非常多次有關財政收支劃分法就是要解決中央集權、集錢、地方政府養中央鼻息的這個問題今天這個會議更可以證明財政收支劃分法的修正是最重要的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
14546.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
14573.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
因為修正了所以地方將來會有穩定的裁員而不會像今天一樣中央想砍就砍今天的問題在於總預算的審查是立法院的職權給行政單位相當的彈性但是今天看到的是主席長我想問你一個問題看一般補助款是你的意思還是行政院長的意思還是總統的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
14575.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
14600.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我們是提了很多的方案但是有一些方案是真的最後定案的是誰拍板要刪地方政府的一般補助款行政院我們這邊是提上去給上面做決定上面是行政院院長嗎還是總統府院長拍板所以是卓榮泰院長決定大砍地方政府的預算請大家把這個事情搞清楚第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
14602.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
14629.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
立法院在審議相關總預算的時候做的所謂的統刪今年是第一次嗎以前統刪大部分都是超1%啦以前就有統刪不超過1%所以都沒有這個問題以前的統刪有刪到一般補助款嗎不是因為以前刪的少嘛刪的少所以就刪不到對但是以前有刪到我只問你以前有刪到一般補助款嗎沒有但是以前有刪到過依法律義務的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
14630.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
14642.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
有刪到過但是有刪到一般補助款嗎你有沒有回答我沒有你要不要回答我要用麥克風是沒有沒有以前立法院刪的統三預算從來沒有刪到地方補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
14644.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
14661.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
說清楚講明白第三個部分今年就像剛剛很多委員都講了這一次總預算裡面稅出預算只有監察院外交部財政部經濟部環境部跟數發部的預算比上一年度少其他的單位都比上一年度多 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
14662.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
14680.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
所以我們在統山的金融裡面給了行政院非常大的彈性就是你可以去做自行的調節請問主席長你有去調節嗎你有去詢問各部會你哪些東西可以審嗎審到最後以後還是636億直接砸到地方政府的頭上 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
14682.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
14705.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
通案刪減的部分它是不可以調解的 它不可以調解然後本身裡面呢 它當然都是一般人的業務機會所以你就相信了所以你就直接去砍地方政府了 是嗎不是 這個部分是因為我們本來它金額那麼大大概也沒有那麼大的一個計畫可以刪減所以只好去刪地方政府來 財政部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
14706.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
14726.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
我在裁划法的時候你一直說要跟地方政府溝通好他們意見不同所以一直在溝通溝通了十幾年都沒有用第二個我想問一下這一次主計處在刪地方補助款的時候我們財政部或主計長有跟地方政府溝通嗎這個部分因為我不清楚你沒有來主計長你有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
14727.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
14743.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
有沒有跟大家說我要砍你的錢砍多少錢有跟他們溝通過嗎沒有直接發文對嗎所以就是說這件事情對你們來說就是權利是我的我愛幹嘛幹嘛今天才會站在這邊還會在這個提案預算都審查過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
14747.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
14771.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
第三個問題我現在的問題是現在的補助款刪到最後剩下目前是到110年的水平也就是說現在是個僵局請問行政院主席處你們打算如何解決這個僵局還是地方政府接下來要跟他們各地方議會的人說我們要跟議會報追檢預算你們是要他們直接報追檢預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
14774.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
14799.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
其實我們在刪減之前我們都有一些去做涉算所以現在這個結論下去他們要去追檢預算還有他累計剩餘的一個情形那如果說他本身因為這個部分他們會在影響是在稅入面不會影響到稅數所以他們要去追檢預算也就是說沒有其他的方法了是嗎他可以遵檢相關現在這些縣市省長坐在這邊就是要聽你處理處長他要怎麼辦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
14801.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
14821.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
是 但是這個部分呢他要怎麼辦啊他也可以用累計剩餘來做他可以用他自己的錢來做所以你不會再給他錢答案就是你沒有要解決這個問題嘛利用你的資房錢你去把它花一花他也有建議說要辦追加但是這個追加的部分他現在勢必要追檢了啦立法院來支持啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
14822.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
14851.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
他現在勢必要追檢了啦 被你弄到要追檢了啦好 重點是 行政院在去年阻擋了財化法告訴我們現在版本就是最好的版本而且所有的內容都說 啊 我補助款給好多好多現在的問題就是 今天所有的問題財化法才是最終解決的方法所以財化法 我想問一下主席長你現在要編新的預算是用新的財化法還是舊的財化法我上次問過你嘛 你說依法行政嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
14854.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
14866.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
明年的預算是新的財化法對吧因為我們現在目前送四線還是要依照那個憲法法庭他四線的結果所以你預算地方政府現在是用新法邊還是舊法邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
14867.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
14895.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
地方政府的部分這個部分我還沒有調查你們你不知道所以也不知道所以你也沒有要依法行政好最後的問題我今天要說的是地方政府的意見對你們來說重不重要還是要立法院請他們在這邊才能聽得到第二個地方集權地方被中央集權又集權財化法現在立法院已經修正了你們也不執行第二個他們接下去要編明年的預算也不知道怎麼編現在今年度的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
14896.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
14919.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
如果是適用舊的財化法它就是一個中央政府對他們一般補助款的承諾你們也不遵守這三件事情行政院是要這個國家大亂就對了主計處是完全不守財政紀律讓這個國家沒有辦法持續往前走這才是我今天的問題財化法的修正更可以證明立法院是對的行政院不願提版本到今天為止還沒有立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
14922.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
14932.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
如果兩位首長真的負責任的話要清楚的告訴院長我們不可以這樣子做現在請新竹市秘書長請新竹市秘書長新竹市張秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
14942.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
14966.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
是主席好 委員好是 民主黨我想新竹市台灣民眾黨唯一執政的縣市喔那我們在修財化法的時候也發現了就是新竹市對稅收的貢獻非常的大但是真的分到地方的統籌分配稅款非常跟其他縣市顯不公平所以我們做了很多的調整第二個就是這一次的刪減到一般補助款對於地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
14967.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
14975.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
本來就已經缺乏的經費可能受到更大的影響我想知道新竹在這次的被刪了多少那你們對你們影響有哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
14976.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
14984.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
好 謝謝有人關心新竹市這一次也是被通刪27.3%不是25%是27.3% 金額是9.8億因為我們規模比較小所以實際上刪了9.8億但刪完了結果我們今年所獲得的統籌分配稅款只有剩下34.5億 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
14999.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
15017.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
25.9億比去年33.5億還要來得少了所以3的其實是影響非常大那剛剛大家都提到為什麼是3我們會受到影響的是教育、社福以及基層建設因為這些項目不是我們所有的地方政府自己挑的這些項目就是統籌 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
15018.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
15042.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
一般補助款所指定的施政項目所以我們被刪就是這些項目會被刪所以剛剛所講到所有的弱勢孩子的補助收入的補助營養午餐的補助或者是社會福利以及我們的基礎建設我們的公園我們的道路我們的水溝這些通通受到影響那所以真的是影響非常的重大所以今天謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
15044.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
15063.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
召集人讓我們有機會來表達這個意見我們也非常希望說今天的這個審議的議案能夠照案通過把這個補助款能夠還給我們就像我們代理市長所說的以蒼生為念 以上好的 謝謝民俗長我想部長跟主席長大家都聽到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
15063.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
15084.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
今天大家都說如果你刪的是一些特殊的業務費或者是不重要的錢就算了現在刪到的是社福是基層建設是教育教育社福這是政府的責任這不是我們在財政上面可以優先刪除的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
15085.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
15102.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
優先性必要性主席長我想請問一下你認為你現在刪除的是具有所謂財政上的優先性跟必要性嗎優先性跟必要性就大聲的告訴所有的國人地方政府的一般補助款是我不認為它有優先性也不認為它有必要性的講出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
15103.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
15115.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
報告委員我刪新竹市的部分只有刪爭域裁員的部分所以他三項補助我是沒有刪的所以這個部分我必須要釐清所以他說的不對那你們給他的錢不會影響到我們以三項合計起來譬如說一般性補助你大聲的說我不影響社福不影響教育不影響基層建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
15124.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
15145.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
以新竹市來講的話它是比去年還增加三項合起來比去年還增加如果比去年還增加就不會有秘書長在這邊講話這裡講話不能說謊的所以他們受到影響你又說沒有受到影響所以誰說了算它是有受到影響但是你要不要對著麥克風說呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
15146.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
15157.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
她是比去年增加7億啦三項合起來 一個是計劃補助 一個一般性補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個是計劃補助 一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
15165.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
15191.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
今天在做的所有的東西都受到影響了才會在這裡636億你告訴我沒有影響但是我們被通案刪減的部分就是說我們刪減了930億我們必須要通案刪減所以沒有辦法財政收支化分法才是真正保障地方財源穩定而不是每天被中央隨時隨地都可以所謂的予取予求我覺得這才是今天的問題所以主席長我要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
15192.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
15210.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
妳的備案是什麼?妳什麼時候會有備案?或者是今天為止之後就是妳們隨人顧性命?妳是指財化法的部分嗎?是,不是只有這個今天這個錢妳有什麼備案?沒有備案,來這邊只是虛晃一招妳要怎麼解決這個僵局啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
15211.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
15235.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那個一般性補助的部分嗎我們因為有一些部分縣市也有建議說要追加我們也希望立法院能夠支持那如果支持這個部分那你們什麼時候要做什麼事要做什麼補救要做什麼事啊我們會盡量在這個會期裡面來把它這個會期提出追加預算是嗎如果說立法院願意支持的話我們就你們不是應該先把補助款撥給他們然後再去算算我們各機關該怎麼節省錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
15237.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
15250.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我們沒辦法因為現在就是自愛難省的部分就是在這裡是這樣子主席長我覺得一樣啦還是一樣以蒼生為念啦拜託謝謝黃珊珊委員接著我們請王世堅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
15263.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
15267.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我們台灣今年正式邁入超高齡社會那麼相較於日本他們是花了11年的時間從高齡社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
15293.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
15316.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
進入到超高齡社會而我們台灣只有七年就七年馬上就直接跨入到超高齡社會在這個為什麼這麼快速因為我們的生育率二十多年來我們二十多年來生育率急劇下滑 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
15317.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
15341.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
我就以我們現在統計數字而言目前我們每一位女性的國人同胞只生0.8位小孩相較於生育率已經很低的日本而言日本每位平均1.3位所以我們以上個月四月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
15342.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
15359.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我們的生育率而言我們四月份生育率僅出生了全國只出生8684位嬰兒那相較於去年同期四月我們少了2069位 少了20%所以生育率急速 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
15367.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
15388.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
而且嚴重的下滑現在是我們國家 我們的國安問題啦那麼我跟妳提這些事情就是說 提到說上個月有一則新聞有一位女法官那麼她在我們台北市的某個診所做了人工生殖手術 要求職 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
15390.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
15406.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
結果這一筆花費花了37萬元,理所當然這應該列入他所得稅申報列舉扣除額但是竟然被國稅局把它否定掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
15408.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
15436.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
國稅局說不行 說為什麼不行說啊 這一家診所必須是會計記錄完備正確的醫院啦會計記錄完備正確的醫院天啊 國稅局到最重要的關頭的時候欸 國稅局跑出來啦意思就是說 這樣子你花費 這個就不能列入 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
15437.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
15447.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
扣除額那我認為我認為這個是很荒唐的部長生意率下滑我們鼓勵全民 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
15449.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
15472.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
鼓勵女性同胞們大家來生產報國這是國家政策耶我們國家應該要鼓勵才對耶結果竟然這個時候那財政部用個根本跟財政部截然無關的事情在阻撓 你不覺得這莫名其妙嗎你知不知道有這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
15473.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
15493.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
報告委員這個事情我知道那我想當然對於面對我們少子女化的一個情況政府有各項的對策我想在稅的部分也有相關的對策相關的租稅的優惠來做鼓勵那至於要報所得稅的時候你所要列舉的生育或者是醫藥的這個費用要做列舉的話我們國稅局在審核的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
15495.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
15512.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
必須要有一些相關的單據那這些單據必須具有它的一定的可信度跟信賴度那也是避免大家民眾拿到一些不可信的資料要求此生小孩這會假的嗎這那麼多醫療的紀錄這個會是假的嗎這是衛福部去查嘛如果質疑的話不是這樣嗎那對於有關相關的一些證明文件你們要求的那如果是作假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
15523.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
15536.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那只要這個醫院他就是照你說的他的報稅紀錄很完備很正確那他就可以來作假那你也不會發現不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
15537.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
15564.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
不是嗎跟委員報告要生子求子是多嚴肅的事情這個會作假這個有太多醫學科學的記錄證明這怎麼會作假呢不是嗎跟委員報告所以這個部分我們財政部也進行了相關的檢討然後也修正了審核的一些要點那這裡面的規定我們也做了適度的放寬那未來這個叫適度放寬喔你現在就 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
15567.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
15588.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
你現在就把它否決掉了不是嗎你不是就否決掉了嗎我舉例啦我們要鼓勵我們鼓勵我們政策鼓勵居住正義我們就說啊這個如果這個租金你繳納租金租金有支出特別扣除額可以申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
15590.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
15618.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
租金支出的特別扣除額這一個部分我們只要求說那我們房客租屋有沒有這個契約是不是真的有付款這樣就好啊我們會去管道說你租的這個房子這個房東房屋稅有沒有繳低價稅有沒有繳他所得稅有沒有繳你要查房東有沒有繳稅完備的報稅紀錄那另外一位是那應當去查 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
15619.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
15643.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
可是這跟房客 我們要鼓勵他我們說你這個租金可以特別扣除條例 做無關嘛不是這樣嗎 同樣啊 我們現在要鼓勵生產不是嗎那你如果每件事情 我今天跟你問這件事情看起來是小事 自我認為大事這個凸顯了我們財政部的本位主義啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
15645.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
15651.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
你們這本位主義這麼做如果照這樣部長如果照這樣那以後消防隊去救火打火那就先問一下這個火災戶你稅金繳了沒你房屋稅地價稅你的所得稅繳了沒你家有沒有欠稅可以這樣嗎那如果民眾受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
15675.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
15686.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
被搶被偷去警察局報案 警察局也可以這樣要求囉你要帶稅單來三年份的稅單 通通完備才可以報案 是這樣嗎在民眾有所求的時候 欸 財政部出來臨門一腳財政部可以這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
15696.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
15722.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
你認為呢 可以嗎委員說得很適合那剛剛舉的例子當然也不會成立啦也不會說要求他要付稅單你還沒有做而已啦不會啦 不會這樣子做部長 我跟你相處這一年來我知道你確實是奉公守法啦我相信 但是我認為你就是過度保守跟我講的嘛 你就扛著這個十字架橫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
15724.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
15727.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
就是我們國家的稅收值得 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
15728.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
15753.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
就是我們國有財產誰都休想搶走你的十字架你的意思是這樣這個是沒錯但是其實我們的相關規定也在因為這一次在五月的時候我們也做修正了相關的規定同時我們會去有修正了嗎有修正啦五月二十八號已經做修正啦已經做修正嗎對五月二十八號五個月五月二十八號已經修正相關的規定五月二十八號喔那就上個 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
15754.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
15781.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
前幾天就對了前幾天你們有修正那很好很好你們這樣做很好部長我既然這樣你已經修正上個禮拜修正就對了那要記得通知這些先前有受到危害的這幾位民眾包括這位女法官好不好這個部分的回溯適用的部分我們還比較了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
15784.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
15808.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
5月18日以後才算 不算 我強烈質疑我在想你連睡覺休息的時候 你做夢都夢到要怎麼樣來加強增稅 趕快質疑看我剛剛講的這警察局 消防局 你可以考慮看看不會我在想你可能是這樣子 你就是太過本位主義 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
15809.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
15823.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
太過本位主義好不好那剛剛我講的這個醫院這個齁我跟你講你們說要會計記錄完備正確的醫院結果這一項其實多數醫院是不曉得他們不曉得說你所謂的會計記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
15825.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
15848.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
完備正確這一項他還以為說你們去查查稅那他們是這個醫院都很正常醫院診所正常有報稅繳稅以為說這樣就OK不是欸你們這一項標準是要這些醫院主動來跟你們申報結果啊我去查了一下我們現在1601家有座 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
15851.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
15866.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
有那個自費診所的這些自費診所醫院有做收費的1601家只有6家 只有6家申請也就是說只有6家通過你所謂的報稅完備記錄 記錄完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
15873.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
15899.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
只有六家那所有民眾如果未來我剛講的我們國家正在要提高生育率鼓勵生產的時候那民眾女性同胞們碰到這樣子的事情最後要把這一筆費用列為扣除額的時候又要被你們阻撓了因為那家醫院會計紀錄不夠完備不是這樣嗎啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
15905.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
15921.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
你連站著都在想怎麼收稅怎麼徵稅不是跟委員報告其實我們的相關規定會去調整跟修正也已經放寬了在委員所關心的事情我們也在努力在做我們就把這個規定提供給委員你把這個影片給我看好不好五六天前而已謝謝委員謝謝因為這個上個禮拜那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
15929.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
15935.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
李燕秀委員有執行過了嘛所以後來就修正了好謝謝謝謝黃委員接著我們請黃國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
15945.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
15959.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
謝謝主席 開始詢問以前先請教主席一個問題我剛聽委員會裡面的助理跟我回報說談好了今天這個案子在委員會不處理是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
15962.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
15988.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
這個是今天早上的時候就是具體有沒有談好等一下要請問一下賴委員因為我也是帶他當主席我剛剛到主席台等一下我會詢問一下再跟你回答是是是沒有啦那個主席不要介意啦因為你現在是代主席我知道也不是你答應這件事情的那不過因為你現在在主席的位置上真的會議進行詢問這件事情那我只能夠請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
15989.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
16009.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
因為我剛在前面跟我們的代主席詢問這件事情的時候旁邊的議事人員說似乎是財委會兩個召委這件事情已經談好了今天這個案子不處理確定有這件事嗎對 是黨團那個大概有協商就是所有的委員誰跟誰協商應該是黨團應該不會只有召委協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
16014.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
16037.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
沒有啊 我是台灣民眾黨黨團的章偉啊我從頭到尾不知道這件事啊今天要處理的是台灣民眾黨提出來的案子沒有問過台灣民眾黨兩個人私底下才好不處理喔這樣子好嗎 您可以先質詢我現在來打電話請教一下我們那個相關的人員可以啊 我先表明一個基本的立場如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
16038.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
16056.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
今天民進黨的立委藉由著霸佔主席台就可以為所欲為就聽他們的意思不處理這還像什麼國會啊這麼多地方政府的代表來大家為了卓榮泰的違法濫權都炸鍋了 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
16059.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
16080.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我們聽到大家的心聲急著趕快提出這個決議來也同意附委審查幾個民進黨的立委來鬧就不處理喔現在台灣是什麼立法院耍流氓的最大嗎耍流氓最大嗎可以這樣搞喔我清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
16082.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
16089.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
我清楚的表達台灣民眾黨黨團的立場我絕對不贊成民進黨委員站著主席台就可以用威脅的方式喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
16115.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
16143.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
委員好來主席長好我問有關於這一次違法濫三地方地方補助款的事情啊狗明星說這是你的主意是不是我們有提供好幾個方案然後給行政院來做參考你們提供幾個方案給行政院三個方案三個方案三地方補助款是其中之一是不是是那其他兩個方案呢三債息什麼債息 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
16145.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
16174.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
然後第二個方案呢各三一半那那個其他兩個方案可以提供給立法院嗎因為本身在席我們當初跟財政部協調不是啦你就針對我的問題回答就好了其他兩個方案可以提供給立法院嗎因為接下來啦我們又打算要在今天質詢的時候去跟你爭執合法不合法的問題啦非常多的學者專家都已經站出來講了啦就明顯的違法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
16175.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
16201.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
結果你們今天財政部也好主計總署的報告也好臉皮有夠厚的說合法合規你敢寫我還不敢看愛怎麼寫就怎麼寫說服不了一般的學者專家從政大財政系的陳國良教授黃耀輝教授每一個都出來罵 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
16203.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
16232.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
但我們現在的行政院左龍泰死豬不怕滾水燙我就是要這樣惡搞要不然你們要怎麼樣現在在台灣是耍流氓最大啦不要臉最大我講的就是左龍泰接下來政治責任的追究談清楚就好了你說你提供三個方案最後挑全部三地方補助款做這個決策的人是不是左龍泰 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
16233.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
16261.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
所以行政院來做決定行政院他沒有辦法做決定一定是人做決定其他兩個方案可不可以送來給立法院可以啊今天下班以前送來可以嗎就讓全體國人看看嘛我主計長提了什麼方案給卓榮泰最後是卓榮泰選的嘛不是你的鍋 我不會要你背不是你的鍋 我不會要你背 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
16262.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
16282.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
我是要把這個責任給釐清清楚來不好意思今天有那個新北市的代表來嗎是不是可以請新北市的代表副市長新北市 劉河南 劉副市長秘書長秘書長好我想秘書長今天來立法院列席應該對於地方的財政 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
16289.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
16310.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
非常的清楚啦一般補助款基本上在處理的是財政收支差額的部分嘛我說的沒有錯吧這次行政院違法科扣百分之二十五27點多我們總共刪除的平均是27點多新北市被刪了多少30.4億被刪除了30.4億對新北市造成什麼影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
16317.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
16333.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
跟委員報告這一次的一般性補助款的30.4億的部分主要有三項一個是社會福利一個是教育補助的經費還有一個是基本設施其中在社會福利的部分三減的16.12億占全部占整個補助的35.86% |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
16336.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
16362.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
教育的補助的部分7.6億減幅是21.83%基本設施的補助的經費的部分3.6.72億佔24.86%跟委員這邊補充報告單單這裡面在社會福利的部分我們最主要的是包括身心障礙者的生活的補助中低收入老人津貼等等還有弱勢兒童等等相關的補助單單弱勢族群的部分影響的人數就將高達10萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
16365.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
16390.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
不包括還不包括基礎建設等等教育的這些相關的這些這些我們的那個市民的這些那個影響所以這一次的那個一般性補助館的刪減的部分確實對我們影響非常的大那市長非常的重視這個問題所以昨天呢要我跟邀集各局處開了這個會跟委員報告這是我開過最沉重的一次的會因為在這個會議當中同仁提出了一個問題他們告訴我說秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
16393.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
16421.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我們國家編列預算國家建設不就是為了保障人民的生活生命安全等等這些基本需求刪除了這些項目我們已經不知道面對市民該如何去做說明這件事情那他們也想知道當時在刪除的時候那是不是有一個優先數據中央可不可以告訴我們這怎麼處理因為我們實在不知道如何去處理這件事情也希望中央能夠盡快把一般性補助款的部分撥補給地方政府 謝謝好 謝謝西北市的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
16422.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
16449.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
幾個基本的立場一定要講清楚啊現在我在PPT上面秀的是什麼113年中央政府總預算通案的決議跟114年中央政府總預算通案的決議你把前後兩個年度啊通案的決議拿出來比一比啊只要看得懂中文的人啊有基本識字能力的人啊就會知道在114年中央政府總預算裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
16450.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
16473.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我們有刪一塊錢的地方補助款嗎我跟大家報告一塊都沒有刪啦一塊都沒有刪啦113年的時候還刪了4%我為什麼114年在提這個案子的時候我地方補助款我一塊都不刪因為我知道地方需要嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
16474.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
16501.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
目前中央地方的財政劃分收支制度套用我20年前在民進黨的台灣智庫所參加的會議就說要改啦只是民進黨拿到權力了以後不管是錢還是權全部一把抓結果什麼我們要求要刪的中央各機關及所屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
16503.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
16530.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
結果把600多億刪到地方的補助管去違法妄為啊今天早上還有民進黨的立委在那邊說那誰叫你們要通刪啊你們通刪就是不曉得要刪什麼東西所以才用通刪拜託民進黨的立委睜大眼睛看啊你們113年中央政府所預算有沒有通刪是不是通刪113年的時候你地方補助管有被苛扣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
16532.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
16560.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
來 請新北市那個113年的時候我們當時的一般性的補助款是101億那那個原則上在當時其實是沒有因為到今年是很特別產生這種錢所以嘛 你就看113年中央政府總預算最後一項是什麼如果經過總算沒有到達299億就要3到299億嘛完全按照以前的方式做我還特別把地方補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
16561.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
16587.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
把他拿掉就清楚的告訴我們的行政院一塊都不准刪現在卓榮泰在裝著什麼裝文盲嗎看不識字嗎目無法紀啊提案單寫得這麼清楚了然後最後我只講一件事我們那個時候就擔心就擔心民進黨政府會動手腳財政收支劃分法30條我們還加了第三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
16588.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
16617.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
一般補助款不可以少於修正施行前預算編列數去年夏天今年要給地方補助款不就合訂了嗎去年就合訂了耶今年修法生效以後膽子好大修法生效以後還找地方政府現在左翁他要威脅立法院什麼給我追加預算現在他搞擄人兒署喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
16618.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
16630.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
把地方政府當落票我希望那個新北市的代表回去轉告侯友宜市長這件事情硬起來絕對要硬起來不可以讓卓榮泰這樣違法亂搞 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
16648.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
16650.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
請莊部長喔莊部長你好委員好我們最近這十年啊 稅收年年超增啊去年超增多少部分齁 中央的部分是三千全部加起來全國喔全國 我找一下齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
16679.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
16706.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
前年大概多少前年的稅收 最近這五年啊5283去年 5283 5000多億再來前年 中央是3757億好 再來再來什麼我們這幾年來稅收年年超增都是幾千億幾百億中央不是沒錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
16708.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
16738.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
那我請問一下部長你這些錢都是來自哪裡是不是來自22縣市各縣市的努力工商企業所有的稅收的來源集中在中央所以中央才變成這樣很有錢嘛不然你的錢是哪裡來的我想我們的稅收基本上是政府和人民大家共同努力然後經濟成長的一個成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
16738.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
16759.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
好 謝謝接著主席請主席長陳主席長以及我們新北市政府的邱秘書長邱敬斌秘書長因為我們常常立委都會在聊天麻煩也請新竹縣新竹縣新竹縣所有委員平常都很用心黃處長希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
16768.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
16796.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
可以為地方特別是弱勢團體社福團體未來國家的希望小朋友的照顧兒少的部分大家盡心盡力希望為地方來多爭取一點所以之前我跟我們新竹的林思敏林委員還有曾振全政委員他們一直覺得像新竹因為有竹科啊其實對台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
16799.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
16814.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
財政的貢獻非常非常大 新北的貢獻也非常非常多都是來自地方 大家片手之足 錢拿到中央結果今天居然要三地方的一般性的補助 有良心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
16816.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
16844.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
本席長期以來最關心的就是地方社福的問題老人的照顧長照的問題小朋友未來的教育的問題結果今天你們正式不做搞一些亂七八糟的事我請問一下主席長錢要花在刀口嘛你要改 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
16845.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
16864.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
全國改成中正路要改名要花多少錢這是內政部的內政部請問一下吳次長全國如果中正路要改名要花多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
16865.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
16884.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
跟委員報告目前無法估算因為要修改入名的部分還是有地方權責那這個要有共識會不會超過一億會不會超過十億可能還是要另外估算統計一下那我請問一下搞一個大罷免要花多少錢這個可能中選會會比較清楚12億要花12億 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
16895.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
16923.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
所以我們發現很多事情中央事實上該花的花不該花的就不該花嘛你去搞一個請竹記長太陽能發電這幾年來花了多少錢這個不是我的業務所以我也不是清楚那你覺得中央的部分有什麼地方是不該花而花的 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
16926.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
16935.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
我們現在大部分都被刪減了所以現在輕微被刪減了很厲害所以很多都是連水電會都出不來你摸著良心啊摸著良心喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
16937.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
16964.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
對這些地方的最基礎 最弱勢的照顧妳怎麼忍心要刪這些錢呢我們也不想刪啊 但是不得不啊妳有自愛難行的地方嗎刪了2076億 所以我們負益啊因為我們執行有困難妳有自愛難行的地方嗎對 所以我們自愛難行妳有錢準備花心思去改中正路妳有錢要去補貼台電一次就一千億 一千億 一千億二話不說就給 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
16966.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
16983.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
那你居然 我想像不到 你看起來也是慈眉善目的你居然要砍地方社福的預算砍對年輕人的照顧 砍對婦女的關懷主席 我們現在請新北市那個新北市 邱秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
16990.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
17007.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
我們看得匪夷所思啊因為中央錢很多我剛剛都講了去年光是稅收就超徵五千多億你跟所有的這個弱勢團體跟婦女團體在那邊資助畢竟居然還要刪這些人的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
17008.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
17018.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
請問如果他這樣刪的話對地方對這些弱勢團體影響的人士大概有多少對小朋友未來的營養午餐影響會不會很嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
17021.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
17034.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
好 那非常謝謝駱委員我想委員一直非常關心弱勢在新北的弱勢跟孩子的教育在這一次我剛剛有特別說明這一次單單在社福預算的部分補助的經費的部分刪除了16.121減福的部分佔了35.86% |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
17040.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
17057.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那當然在那個海東的教育補助的經費7.6億減幅的部分是21.83那單單弱勢族群的補助的部分影響人數就將近10萬人10萬人還不包括基礎建設還不包括其他教育的一些相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
17058.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
17076.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
設施的改善等等基礎建設裡面包括道路的整平以及包括橋樑的維護等等尤其台灣又是在低震帶這些安全設施其實都是人民基本生活安全上面所必須要保障的所以在昨天開會的時候所有同仁非常沉重的才告訴我說秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
17077.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
17102.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
這不是要調整來向的問題重點是我們不知道怎麼去面對這些的民眾怎麼去告訴他們這些事情要如何去做調整那這一點在新北市影響非常的大我們希望中央的部分對於一般性補助款的部分能夠盡快的撥補給我們尤其是新北市我們在過去的部分到目前為止我們還累積虧損了887億一年期的公共債務的部分還有940億 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
17104.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
17129.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
所以這個部分我們一直都在遵節開支希望能夠能夠在醫院上面能夠節省但是面對這樣子的一個預算的刪減其實我們其實沒有辦法負擔在這裡跟委員這邊報告那你會不會覺得很難過因為我們地方片手之足所有收的稅源這個財政的這個收支來源收了以後都給中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
17130.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
17151.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
結果中央變成來克扣地方的一般性的補助這樣合理嗎我剛剛有特別說明這個是我當公務員到現在為止開過最沉重的一次會然後我真的不知道答案為何我也不知道怎麼去回答我們同仁是那大家也可以感覺到今天早上 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
17151.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
17162.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
吳秉瑞其他委員說有做七屆有做六屆那我這邊做八屆了我從來也沒有看過中央是這樣蠻橫不講理的這樣亂搞而且影響的人是那麼多這些弱勢的社福團體這些小朋友這些媽媽這些老人怎麼辦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
17175.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
17201.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
接著主席可不可以請新竹縣黃局長你能不能說明一下新竹縣因為附近有科學園區的關係事實上你們對中央的貢獻度也非常高那你面對現在來砍你們一般性的預算對你們的影響大不大因為我常常聽到林世民林委員他很積極在爭取啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
17203.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
17228.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
你可不可以說明一下好的 謝謝委員事實上就誠如委員講的我們新竹縣是全國出生率跟遷入率最高的一個縣市那現在全國都是少子化剛剛王世堅委員也有提到可是我們新竹縣是為台灣的少子化做了很大的一個貢獻那在整個招商引資的部分我們新竹縣也連續六年是招商評比的第一名 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
17229.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
17235.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
也就是說在貢獻中央稅收的部分我們新竹縣跟新竹市事實上貢獻是非常大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
17235.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
17262.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
那這一次呢就是接到這個主計總署的通知啊去刪減我們的一般性補助款我們真的是不敢置信為什麼不敢置信因為我們今年二十幾年沒有修的財務法好不容易通過我們都來不及高興從今年二月到五月事實上財政部就因為稅收收入的關係就減薄我們的統籌分配稅款分別減薄一成五到四成五那現在一般性補助款呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
17265.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
17278.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
從五月份開始 主席總署又通知又緩撥 基本上 甚至可能是刪除這樣的話對我們地方政府造成很大的一個傷害那在一般性補助款的部分我們大概就減撥20.681那20.681這裡面的經費呢我們有校舍的興建 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
17284.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
17304.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
有新生兒還有包含那個免費的營養午餐然後還有一些弱勢的照顧我們為了讓我們新竹縣的年輕人怨聲能啞所以我們在整個教育經費社福經費的部分我們投入很多那一般性補助款我們就把它用在刀口上可是我們沒有想到我們竹地總署居然 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
17306.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
17320.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
過去都沒有刪減的一般性補助款在這次做這麼大幅的一個刪減那另外我針對主席總處他剛剛主席長對中央對直轄市及縣市政府補助辦法的解釋我有很大的一個疑問因為第三條的規定中央為謀全國經濟平衡的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
17322.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
17337.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
得市直轄市及縣市政府財政收支狀況來作以補助而不是市中央的財政狀況還有你預算變資的情形而且這個經費當時不管是統籌分配稅款或一般性補助款在去年都是由中央核定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
17337.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
17356.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
那你核定了以後你現在片面的又把它刪減如果這樣可以做的話那請問一下我縣市政府的預算如果經過議會刪減我可不可以去刪對鄉鎮市公所的補助經費呢所以這部分的話我們有很大一個質疑我們希望主席總署能夠懸崖勒馬趕快把應該撥給地方政府的經費趕快撥給我們謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
17360.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
17379.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
好 謝謝黃局長我們也共同希望足跡總署這裡可以懸崖勒馬不要恣意妄為更不要欺負這些弱勢族群這些父女朋友老人以及兒童未來的國家的希望謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
17383.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
17401.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
謝謝羅委員 新竹的財政局的房屋局長房屋局長也講得很清楚接著我們請鄭天才委主席 各位委員 請主計長主計長主計長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
17410.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
17438.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
這個你是公務員出身包括我們財政部的部長都是公務員出身很清楚立法院審查預算的運作立法院審查預算委員會完之後黨團會有協商由立法院院長主持朝野協商而這一次114年度的預算審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
17440.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
17468.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
韓國瑜院長主持朝野協商但是柯建民總召就不協商一直在談大罷免大罷免大罷免所以你都在場你都很清楚這個就是政治的考量預算三讀通過之後行政院呱呱叫韓國瑜院長主動 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
17470.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
17497.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
在114年2月14號再召開了一次草野協商公文是2月14號發的公文2月18號下午召開草野協商針對中央不是針對地方政府的因為我們很清楚立法委員不可能去刪中央的補助地方的補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
17498.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
17525.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
不可能嘛 何況又是法律義務支出行政院也說這是法律義務支出我們也不會刪也沒刪但是因為行政院認為很難處理所以韓國瑜院長主動在2月18號下午召開朝野協商但是柯總召繼續的bigger |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
17526.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
17552.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
韓國瑜院長請行政院秘書長來說明預算到底有什麼困難柯建民總召不讓他說明才造成這個韓國瑜院長還受罵呢 還被挨罵呢這媒體都有報導啊 你也在現場啊 對不對所以在這樣一個情形之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
17553.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
17579.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
我們作為事務官出身的主計長或是部長就應該怎麼去說服行政院院長因為他們很政治我過去也是當公務員我常常我當副主委常務副主委的時候我常常說服說服主任委員所以這個部分是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
17582.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
17610.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
當然包括我們的主計總署的其他的同仁事務官也要欠主計長啊也要讓他知道一下所以這個部分啊要建議主計長回去跟行政院院長報告不是中央不是要去砍你絕對要趕快撥給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
17611.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
17624.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
如果真的有困難提追加預算不是針對一般性補助款提追加預算立法院不會接受用一般性補助款去追加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
17625.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
17647.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
你要用中央機關所要支應的經費有困難的部分提追加預算這才是一個正辦所以這個部分做一個這樣的一個建議另外就是基本設施維持費這個部分你的理由是什麼就是因為這個636億 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
17652.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
17678.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
636億你去撿的地方一般性補助款現在又去撿這個原鄉的基本設施維持費不是超越了嗎那你不是多賺了嗎所以這個部分要趕快撥給地方原鄉的基本設施維持費這個是原鄉的一個最需要的一個經費所以這個部分是一個最後一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
17680.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
17707.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
最後一點 禁法補償左院長同意的禁法補償要追加預算立法院也做了決議禁法補償要追加預算延民會在今年的3月10號就送到行政院了到現在還在你主席總署的身上趕快趕快送來 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
17709.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
17735.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
主席長什麼時候可以送來因為總預算必須要看我們要追加哪些這個跟總預算沒有關係最佳預算要看要追加哪些項目然後要做一個會診會診之後然後再確認說追加預算的時程因為項目的多寡會影響到一個作業的時間所以等於是說如果說將來最佳預算你可以分兩次 兩回事這個第一個113年11月7號 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
17739.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
17757.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
左院長承諾 進法補償要追加預算你不要跟別的扯在一起 好不好趕快送來好 謝謝謝謝政委員齁 主席齁趕快按照立法院的決議做吧那個 接著我們請徐政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
17763.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
17790.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
謝謝主席 我們請主席長跟雲林縣政府鄭秘書長還有宜蘭縣政府吳志宏秘書長好 雲林的鄭秘書長跟宜蘭的吳秘書長好 主席長好主席長 我想請教你地方制度法從88年修法通過之後行政院編列給地方政府的一般性補助款請問有沒有在執行時被刪減過 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
17793.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
17795.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
有沒有在執行時被刪減過,從地質法通過以來? |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
17808.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
17837.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
沒有嘛 主席長也就是說地方的縣市政府的一般性補助款從來沒有在執行時被刪減過剛剛主席長回答是這樣嗎那另外再請教主席長地方政府依據主計總署提供的補助款金額完成整體預算編列並經各地方的議會審議通過但是現在中央政府又突襲式的刪減中央政府對地方性的一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
17838.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
17857.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
那是不是已經違反了預算信賴原則這樣的行為是不是算依法行政呢有沒有違法我們是依法來刪減以什麼法不是 我們是一般性的一個補助辦法裡面它是說你可以卓越補助那現在中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
17858.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
17874.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
立法院要求我們刪減636我們是有困難所以這個部分我們才不得不來刪減一般性的補助款我想請你看一個文就是行政院在113年8月30號發函給這個立法院的附件有一個114年度的法律義務支出的明細表 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
17875.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
17894.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
其中也清楚地列出一般性補助款是屬於法定義務支出依法是不得刪減的那請問一下剛剛組長您說過的我們行政院刪減對地方政府的一般性補助款27.3%請問是依照哪一條法律可以授權你們刪減所謂的法律義務支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
17895.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
17919.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
第一個我們對於一般縣市的一個補助是著於補助那所以第二個你說刪減依法律義務的部分以往也都有刪減像國債付息的部分法律義務支出可以刪減嗎以前都有刪減過立法院也有刪減過就是說在那個那就是一般性的地方性補助款你們以前有刪減過嗎我剛剛問說沒有嘛那一般性補助款既然是 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
17919.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
17930.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
法律的義務支出那為什麼又可以刪減我現在有點不懂這個邏輯剛剛你告訴我一般性的這個以前從來沒有刪減過那它是屬於法律義務支出吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
17932.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
17937.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
因為時間的關係我必須先讓你聽一下地方的聲音因為像依據我們地方制度法第69條第一項規定各上級政府為謀求地方的均衡發展對於財力較差的地方政府應予以補助所以我們現在先聽一下雲林縣政府先說明一下這個我們刪減了27.3%的經費之後對地方有什麼影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
17960.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
17985.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
雲林的曾秘書長謝謝主席也謝謝委員我想我分三點來說明雲林縣政府是一個高度依賴中央補助的縣市我們一般的稅收跟中央的補助回收大概每年都有6億的缺口即使現在逐年的補助裡面大概每年也增加到最多增加到5億所以這個缺口都是存在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
17985.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
17999.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
第二個部分就是說這一次砍的37億的部分一般補助款的37億的部分再加上我們一一式的運動會也到了那計劃性補助款也沒有下來所以對雲林縣來講是一個選上加雙的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
18001.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
18021.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
這一次在補助款的減免裡面教育我想社府各個縣市大家都表示意見那基礎設施的部分我想要更強調一點就是因為縣市一個很重要的農業生產基地那汛期也到了颱風期也到了那這些基礎的設施都靠著這些補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
18021.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
18049.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
所以對農民的生命財產確實有很大的影響以上說明所以對雲林縣這樣的一個農業縣也是弱勢財政相對弱勢的縣市事實上的這個補助款3減37.61之後再加上剛剛您提到的這個我們的全國的運動會所以會造成的財務的這種缺口可以說我覺得是雪上加霜啦所以說我想這影響非常的大那我們再來聽一下我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
18050.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
18079.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
這個宜蘭縣政府也是屬於財政相對弱勢的縣市請問一下這個我們刪減的一般性補助款27.3%對我們宜蘭縣政府有什麼影響好 謝謝主席 謝謝委員也給我們宜蘭這個機會在這邊發表一下那大概在去年我們收到行政院的含原核定的一般性補助款是93.6億那結果在今年我們收到了刪除的 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
18080.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
18109.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
一般性補助款刪除了25.56億總共只剩下68.03億那大概衝擊到我們因優先之應的農民健保跟國民年金還有老農津貼的法定義務支出而且要彌補中低收入老人津貼還有身心障礙者的補助的必要的社會福利支出那其他的對於六大社福津貼還有教育經費等等相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
18111.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
18119.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
經費經由斷炊之餘這是第一點那當初我們也跟行政院主計總署反映刪減了25.56億我們縣市政府該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
18123.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
18138.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
主計總書跟我們的回應是說我們叫我們減少支出或者增加舉債增加舉債我跟各位報告宜蘭縣到目前為止契金上游累積短處67億那長短債務173億最近這幾年我們林志廟縣長上任之後總共 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
18147.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
18163.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
對債務還款的38.57億在112年好不容易從重度的在線裡面調整到中度要往輕度發展那主計總數竟然叫我們再增加舉債那這樣子我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
18164.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
18182.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
勢必要走回頭路我想剛才也有委員提到說苗栗跟宜蘭大概財政都是相當的困難那這邊我們也是再度懇請我們行政院這邊能夠緊速恢復原有宜蘭縣的一般性補助款的額度以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
18183.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
18196.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
好 謝謝主席長你剛剛聽到我想不然是雲林縣或宜蘭縣他們都相對是財政弱勢的縣市那你也聽到對他們的影響很大不管是指生長的這個托育的縮減還有老人工餐還有營養午餐的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
18199.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
18215.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
還有一些基礎建設的部分事實上都會受到很大的影響所以要請主計長要回去要跟我們的行政院長報告一下真的要懸崖勒馬不要苛刻我們地方的一般性補助款讓他們能夠好好的為地方做事謝謝我們不得不不檢是這樣子謝謝徐宇甄委員接著我們請張啟凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
18235.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
18241.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
剪輯 李宗盛 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
18264.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
18268.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
謝謝主席請主席長給我轉進部長陳主席長 莊部長委員好主規定你2002年應該已經進入這個主計體系了嘛你知道2002年一樣有謝謝 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
18288.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
18308.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
時間調回來調回來 我叫你時間調回來調回來啦 時間不過喔 不用擔心局長2002年一樣要通山 要行政院自行調整多少錢 你曉得嗎300多億 800多億吧658億比你現在的636還多對不對那時候有沒有調整好 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
18318.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
18346.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
有三大地方補助款嗎對啊那時候中央政府的規模只有現在的大概一半耶那時候大概只有一兆五千億同樣是民進黨執政中度你沉水點啊平靜一點張靜雄要你自行調整要通商的幅度比你經濟還大為什麼沉水點行現在經濟不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
18348.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
18373.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
張建雄行 你中央派就不行以前主席黨行 現在為什麼你這不行咧有潛力可循啊 怎麼會自然來行咧民進黨政府是什麼 一代不如一代嗎現在還這樣對不起人民 還砍人民的錢砍的是社福 砍的是教育砍的是基礎建設 你們到底有沒有良心啊你們把人民放在心上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
18375.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
18392.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
一個是能力問題以前能夠做現在為什麼不能做第二更重要你有沒有心啊你不就是要幫人民服務的嗎怎麼去砍人民最直接的預算呢那很多是中低收入戶是長輩是小孩窮也去幫窮在教育啊你當主計長你不就是要負責把優先順序定好對不對就去砍那個最不該砍的你心裡有人民嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
18407.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
18408.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
當初立法院為什麼做這個決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
18435.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
18457.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
因為你的預算膨脹得太快今年都是創歷史新高而且一下子本來增加將近四千億耶你們本來編的是三兆一千多耶而且裡面一堆浪費浪費跟補償浪費跟補償甚至B&I租業訂來輕重緩急我問你是你們在編預算之前你在主計單位這麼久你們在看審計部的決算嗎你有沒有在看審計部的決算書有有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
18463.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
18489.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
每一年審計部的結算書有指出多少浪費跟不當的你不會拿來參考唷你要調636當然這個裡面不當跟浪費的一定比你現在講的地方的補助款更要砍嘛你不是輕重罰金哪個輕哪個重哪個急哪個緩你怎麼去砍地方的基礎建設社福跟教育呢來我來跟你討論你去翻一翻那個審計部的結算書 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
18493.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
18513.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
國發基金不只是唬爛一堆批案光是投資聯合再生民進黨的大金屬140億元一個投資案虧損140億元怎麼對得起人民投資一個如心牛仔褲不然能贏嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
18516.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
18540.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
撇了人民納稅錢 撇了一褲子 你們要看結算書你要先砍這一種啊 你怎麼會砍人民的錢呢報告委員 國發基金它是附屬單位預算 它不是總預算我們這邊進去嘛 也是民脂民膏嘛 對不對不是 國發基金是腳褲的一個部分 然後我再給你看 你都翻結算書嘛裡面看到哪些是不當的錢嘛 浪費的錢嘛就剛剛講國發基金的投資浪費 人民民脂民膏之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
18545.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
18553.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
真的太讓人家生氣了我前面跟你講的前瞻運算一個前陣漁港要五毛給一千塊韓國瑜當高雄市長說要前陣漁港補助三千個一毛錢都不給陳吉茂上來可以給八十一億你中央怎麼會沒錢你中央錢多得有些些喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
18574.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
18579.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
都是圖利你們民進黨的利誘有圖利民進黨政府嘛為什麼不給一般的民眾呢最近說沒錢內政部要搞什麼改路改什麼中正路還說沒錢中央給你錢內政部不要改不就錢就省下來了嗎是不是你告訴我他憑什麼現在吃飽多餓是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
18601.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
18613.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
那麼多重要的事情不做,你還講說地方沒錢,你改入名,中央給你錢,去把那個錢扣回來啊搞什麼大罷免,至少發十二億,這不是名子名高嗎?結算書裡面還檢討過一個很重要的,是嗎?整個中央政府的基金跟財團法人,腐爛! |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
18628.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
18654.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
領了一堆人民的納稅錢又不好好做事情我正在跟你講啊中央稀產會納稅我們人民的納稅錢至少納稅五億多超市雞蛋買了雞蛋進來還沒進倉庫就壞掉了後來又銷毀發我們人民納稅錢五億多這個中央稀產會董事長本來是無幾值欸您從前他下台以後他可以一年領三百萬請去看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
18658.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
18684.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
審計部的結算書或者超時雞蛋的這個弊案中央續產會中央政府有多少的財團法人多少基金那天我就在說他們憑什麼領了薪水比你多因為中央續產會當署訂了三百萬來配車身體檢討嘛你六百三十六億我都已經說過了幾百億了國發基金的投資浪費前瞻預算裡面的這個浪費 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
18686.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
18708.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
剛剛講的改入名這個浪費整個中央的這個基金財團法人的改革你改革這個有掌聲啊人家不只不罵你還要感謝你你做改革然後去砍人家最重要的事情他都是附屬單位預算不是總預算對啊他的錢就從你這邊進來嘛你為什麼不會去省不會去改革因為一般附屬單位預算你剛才說內政部聽到後面的來 署長你專家你聽我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
18712.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
18733.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
第一個 剛講的內政部那個是不是這個錢等一下我還要跟你講還有咧事務發布拿了人民納稅錢去租那個台北市最貴的星光大樓 地厚這已經減少多久了我以前當記者的時候印象還很深刻啊政府花了多少錢浪費去租了很好的辦公室那時候的省記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
18735.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
18760.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
蘇振平站在這位王建憲坐在外面問他他說這個問題這麼嚴重 讓我們人民納稅警去蘇辦公室蘇振平說你給我一年時間我去處理 不行我切腹自殺以前的政務官是這樣幹的啦你看以前的省紀長 處紀長是這樣幫人民看著你每一分荷包 每一分錢 做改革嘛現在你們擔當到哪裡去了我剛剛講的這是不是都是該改的 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
18761.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
18780.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
不管是本來從中央政府的錢要出去 或者是你從副主的這個機構你錢還是從人民的錢進去啊你要找636億 很容易找 回去翻審計部的結算書好不好好 更重要的 更重要的 我現在幫你找到錢了喔我今天已經跟你講了 從以前2002年有心理 陳水扁可以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
18786.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
18810.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
張進雄可以處理 現在的賴清德跟中瀾跟新任的主席長 陳主席長 你們就要有辦法處理有利可行 不要講自然來行第二個 我今天連錢都跟你講了 我連朋友都跟你講了都在閒 審計部的結算書還有很多立法委員找出來的 浪費的 不當的還有一些弊案的 你砍了哲平才會感謝你嘛結果現在不是 現在嚴重在什麼地方你現在砍了你怎麼 你默著良心講 自規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
18812.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
18833.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
你本來應該去做改革 沒有結果你在砍的都是人民最重要的事情第一個你怎麼會想到砍社福預算你如果還在台南你怎麼去面對你去跟你的台南市的市民講說我的社福預算中低收入戶你的錢不要我要把你砍掉了老人家的錢小孩的錢教育的錢你要砍掉你怎麼去面對民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
18835.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
18857.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
而且更重要的當初立法院在審這個預算來 我給你看一下來 主席你給你看一下你對著你眼睛看到可能可以砍地方的補助款上一頁上一頁我們當初立法院刪減的是什麼中央政府及所屬啊你對著你眼睛看到有地方補助款明明砍的都是中央政府機關跟所屬啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
18865.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
18892.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
你是不要理喔 還是丟在了這不是嚴重違法嗎現在還把責任甩鍋給立法院大家都知道你們行政院砍的嘛而且你們砍的跟立法院要求又不一樣而且我們在審的過程裡面地方補助款一毛錢都沒有砍耶好 接下來看裁判法剛剛國常有特別跟你講我們在修這個法的時候就是怕你們衝坑嘛所以我們法律裡面明明定的清清楚楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
18893.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
18914.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
去年就已經三讀通過了餒你現在還在砍另外我問你一個專業的問題現在那麼多縣市的代表都在這邊你們什麼時候給他們地方補助款的一般補助款你什麼時候跟他講的你什麼時候合訂的七年八月對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
18916.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
18944.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
去年8月你把補助款核定給人家包括嘉義市 新北市 台北市 彰化每個地方把它當成稅入對不對稅入還送到各個議會去審議員都通過了你現在可以砍喔所以你三大違法第一跟立法院的規定審三讀的時候也不一樣第二個違反財務法第三個你違反你當初跟整個地方政府約定的是不是這樣三大違法你砍的又是三大最不能砍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
18946.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
18974.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
社福 基礎建設 教育好啦 最後說個結論台灣民眾黨今天態度非常堅決喔因為人民的反應很熱烈各個縣市政府也要求馬上要把地方這個額度要補足今天我們已經提出提案了要求行政院你要遵守我們當初我們要求要通山的 自行調整的是在中央各機關及所屬所編的預算裡面去調整不能夠去動到地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
18975.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
18997.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
那你現在砍了 請立即補足而還給地方你太客氣了 台積一年的預算才203億 砍了17.3億 他要做什麼啊而且都跟這邊有關的 都要補足好不好主席拜託我要要求一下喔 今天一定要處理我們民眾黨 絕對要求今天要處理喔今天不要以為民進黨來耍流氓喔 背個碗以後就沒有處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
18999.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
19013.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
行政已經無法無天 違法亂紀了 更不允許民進黨立委在這邊亂今天一定要處理民眾黨的提案 趕快把組合的地方補助款拖補給各個縣市政府 謝謝好 謝謝張委員好 下一位質詢請陳玉珍 陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
19031.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
19054.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
主席我要請這個主計長 陳主計長還有法務部法治司的洪司長還有這個立法院預算中心的陳主任法治司有來嗎 陳主任還有我們金門縣的這個代表我們卓科長金門縣代表卓科長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
19061.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
19088.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
這個我們一位一位問那問到哪一位的時候我們請上來直接回答好這個因為今天大家在討論的都是說這個刪減636億是不是可以刪減的有沒有違法刪減這是法律問題就是說在野黨團認為我們當初沒有刪而且是法定的預算那民進黨說因為刪了這些預算所以就是往地方政府刪是可以的是你們可以決定的空間就你們可以決定要刪哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
19089.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
19093.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
是你們的處分空間所以真諜點是在這裡我們先來看一下什麼叫法定預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
19096.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
19119.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
法務部的法務部的等一下我要請教您這個法律司長有來嘛然後我們看這個法定預算是什麼意思依照預算法的規定我國會計年度於每年1月1日開始到同年12月30日終了那當年度中華民國紀元當這個名稱然後會計年度開始四個月前行政要會將會編的中央政府總預算及附屬單位預算及重計表提送立法院審議預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
19121.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
19126.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
預算案經完成立法程序後由總統公佈之即位法定預算你看114份審預算流程我們來回顧一下我們是1月21號三讀通過總預算對不對那是不是3月12號你們復議嘛否決嘛被立法院否決3月21號請問這個總統有沒有公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
19151.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
19162.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
有沒有公告 中央政府總要經過總統府公告嘛好 我們來看總統府到底公告了什麼總統府公告的東西你可以改嗎總統府到底公告了什麼我下面這個內容是總統府的這個公告內容這是 您看看對不對這是總統府的這個華總醫 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
19167.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
19175.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
這個總統府公告的內容喔他針對直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款內容兩千五百零一億一千兩百七十九萬元造劣這個是錯誤的嗎你看我講的這個是對不對這是總統府公告的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
19192.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
19218.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
是不是總統府公告的內容是 但是他也是公告要來 你先聽我講 我先問一下所以總統府公告的內容你可以改就對了總統通過的公告你可以改等一下 我先問你一下你說如果總統府公告就是法定預算所以行政院可不可以改總統府這個是一個依法 就包括法律啊預算通過就是一個法律這個可以改嗎來 那個法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
19220.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
19224.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
法律師 法治師這個總統府如果公告一個法律舉例不管正式預算當然還有法律比如說我們說詐騙這個最重要判五年那這個行政院 五年太少了我們立法院通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
19243.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
19261.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
也公佈了 總統府也公佈了復譽 他們又復譽總統府 行政說五年太少要十年要復譽我們都不同意 我們說就是五年那後來後 行政機關就法務部執行的時候 檢察官求行的時候司法院的法官判的時候就說不行 就是按照十年開始判假設最低刑啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
19262.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
19288.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
您了解我在說什麼嗎就是總統府公佈的這個預算行政機關有權利去改更動內容嗎這個字是總統府公佈的喔這個剛我已經跟那個這個主計長確認過這是總統府公佈的這個內容有照列喔因為我們有我們審預算並不是呼嚨的審一堆喔我們是每一款包括什麼條本軍公交待遇99億啦齁災害準備金50億照列啦第二準備金多少照列啦齁對不對這個都是審過的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
19293.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
19310.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
主計是 你這樣是在 主計處你是在打臉戴總統嗎我再跟委員報告一下 因為這裡面他其餘還有一個就是說通案刪減的那個不低於939那是通案刪減嘛 沒錯 但是通案刪減這個一刪減其他一定都會變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
19313.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
19333.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
來 通安生意前面有一句話如法定預算外 然後接著還有中央剛剛很多委員都講過 不用重複就是還說是刪的要刪的是中央政府及機關及其所屬地方政府不算你們的這個所屬因為地方政府你們要給地方的錢是法定預算我只是想了解我的意思說以後立法院審預算有沒有效力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
19334.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
19354.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
我們每一條都說要給你們多少有沒有照列啊有沒有這個預算是多少啊是25億啊是多少億啊像這一條明細表啊都有嘛那你們回去你們可以自己改喔連總統公布都可以改喔我想問那個我先問你我剛給你的資料是錯誤的嗎不是我們這個也是一個院會的一個審議結果我們也是照這個法制司法制司司長 紅司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
19363.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
19391.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
所以總統府公布的東西照列的預算書也可以任意調整或是所有預算書都可以任意調整會長請教一下按照法律謝謝委員法務部法制司這邊的回應是這樣就是說針對這個預算案如果經過審議的話它當然具有拘束的效力但是我剛才聽那個主計長的說法是說除了剛剛講的那個部分之外它有一個並同的決議就是有關於統三的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
19392.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
19419.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
那當然他是依照那個相應的辦法來做一個所謂著語刪減的部分那當然這個法務部必須要講他們不論是依照地制法或者是財化法這都不是法務部主管的法令那是屬於內政部跟財政部主管內政部還不好 內政部上來不好意思來我再請教內政部吳次長內政部來我再請教一下那個主計處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
19423.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
19448.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
陳處長,這個一般性補助金額研究,剛剛張委員講過,這個我不再講,這個是行政院國家配額精神我想問你們行政院在送給立法院114年中央政府總預算的相關書表時有沒有附具114年中央政府總預算案依法律義務支出的這個依法律義務支出的臨時表,主計總署你們在送出這個總預算的時候,這些書表有沒有附給我們這些東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
19449.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
19463.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我們有送啦有沒有送有你看我這張紙也有幫你查出來有送嘛對不對好 你看一下你的送的表裡頭你的明細表裡頭就下一頁有沒有寫你要給地方政府補助多少特別列出114年度預算中共需2501.13億有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
19467.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
19480.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
這個表是不是正確的是就是你們送來給你們送來給我們立法院審的時候有送這個表有告訴我們說你們要給地方政府補助兩千五百按照地方制度法地方制度法就內政部剛剛我們法制法 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
19482.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
19499.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
法治司法治司說的這個就聽到預算法的規定編了一般性補助款是2,501億這是也是行政院送來給立法院的這個要審的這個表格支出明細然後我們審完以後我們說這個部分我們照列我們不刪我們照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
19502.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
19524.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
我們不刪我們不刪以後我們送回去給行政院行政院再送去給總統這個部分公告公告完總統會公告說照列地方這個補助款不刪那所以以後總統公布的東西他說照列那如果這一項可以每一項都可以都可以隨行政院的自己覺得這個夠那個不夠那以後還要審預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
19525.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
19541.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
以後就讓你們自己自己這個我一公告完了因為我們說要通案刪減的是其他的部分是中央政府繼續所屬機關啊你們要在那個部分來我們針對要刪減636是表示有困難嘛來我先講所以有困難的部落我們是表示真的有困難所以這個部落最後沒有辦法部的部才刪減一般一樣的部來法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
19552.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
19581.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
我那個昨天我看那個搶超商跟我講他生活上有困難這樣有沒有犯法有困難啊昨天有人在路上搶超商說我家裡就沒有辦法家裡有兩個小孩子完全沒有飯吃我一定要去搶超商要搶兩個飯糰有沒有違法違法的行為不可以因為動機的關係而有免責對嘛有沒有困難是一回事嘛你要不要依法做嘛那法律有沒有存在的意義嘛對不對我們立法院通過是中央各機關機所屬啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
19582.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
19591.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
那如果你有困難你就按照一般的程序來追加我想再請問一下法務部這公務人員是不是要依法行政公務人員要依法行政如果沒有依法行政在刑事上的效果是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
19598.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
19612.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
他當然就看違反的情況是不是有任何的行政法或是相當刑事上有什麼效果?賭職嗎?是不是構成犯罪的話必須要有犯罪過程條件那沒有違反是不是有這樣的風險啊?法律風險有吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
19614.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
19628.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
公務員如果沒有依法行政那我舉一個例子好了最近那個沸沸揚揚的那個台北市什麼都更案我看到那些公務員被教訓問教訓問以後我想請問啦我想一般百姓也想了解被教訓問以後他說這個開會的時候都是這個長官的意思如果長官違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
19632.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
19651.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
只是這個意思沒有依法指示如果最後事實認定是這樣子的話我不是指這個案子如果在這個情況下長官違法不按照法律做我們講誇張一點長官叫你去偷錢好了這當然沒那麼誇張但是意思長官違法很明確的說違法不按照這個做工人有沒有責任啊聽話的工人有沒有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
19653.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
19662.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
應該這樣講在刑罰21條的時候依法令之行為不罰但是在但書裡頭如果說長官的命令違法者不在此限意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
19664.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
19685.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
常任文官的是一個相對服從義務也就是說針對長官的違法命令的話他沒有辦法主張免責他沒有主張免責嘛所以今天我是要請各位這邊在座的都是公務人員這個總統公布的這個法令法令應該是有效益的吧這個法務部總統公布的東西有沒有效啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
19687.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
19711.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
只要經過三讀審議 總統公佈後 施行的法律會有法律拘束的效力對嘛 也可以不遵守 也可以自己改是不是應該不是 我剛才聽這個主計處這邊的說法是說主計總署的說法是按照地方制度法所以地方制度法有說如果不夠錢地方制度法 來 內政部對不起 主席我給你一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
19713.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
19719.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
所以地方支柱還有說如果總統公布說這個要給2500億但是那個主計數覺得不夠他可以改成1000億可以嗎有這一條是吧跟委員報告其實地方支柱69條只有說針對地方的財政不一要均衡發展所以我們會對財力較差的部分是應酌於補助啦對嘛這是你們可以補助這個是財洋這個跟那個主力總村那個不一樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
19738.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
19763.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
跟主席總署那沒關係嘛不是不是 主席總署那個是他公告的部分就是說立法院沒有決議說要還要再自行扣折是是是 但不管立法院怎麼決議最後以後總統最後一關是總統嘛總統公告了嘛所以剛剛說他是按照地方制度不是按照地方制度法因為跟這個不相干嘛跟地方制度法不相干嘛地方制度法只是說針對地方的一個餘補助而已跟通過的法律通過的預算多少這個是不相干嘛不是地方制度法適用嘛 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
19764.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
19779.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
改總統府的總統府公告總統公告預算跟地方治法有沒有關係應該沒有改總統府的公告的內容沒有改嗎你再確認一下你問有沒有改主席長你再上來一下看我寫的這是我隨便汙名的還是說真的有這張是真的嗎總統府華總一金字第1140026191號這個公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
19785.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
19796.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
第26款 第一項直轄市及縣政府一般性補助款2501億1279萬元照列有沒有這句話 總統有沒有公布這句話有公告 但是有公告說我們要減636所以其他的都會檢討然後我們是檢討第一項才會動到所以總統公告是給你們參考用 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
19806.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
19833.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
總統公告還要我們減636億這也是在公告裡面的範圍哪一句那你把那句話找出來總統公告說總統公告我要總統公告的好那我來再你先找那我先問一下你提供給我來那我先問一下主計長您剛剛說因為很辛苦其實我理解你們很辛苦就是說在這個整個預算裡頭因為被刪了很多很多所以你們做不下去只好往地方下手因為很困難這是你剛說的說法沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
19835.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
19865.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
我們就是三減了兩千零七十六億嘛對 兩千零七十六億來我們來看 兩千零七十六億其中一千億是給台電的這跟這個沒關係 你知道吧然後所以你們就是減了地方的補儲款六百三十六億對不對然後你們的中央公會最後其他的一千多億就一零七六 你們去減地方然後你們自己減了四百四十億對不對如果以現在的結果四百四十億他是指定項目三減所以對業務的推動有極大的困難是是來 所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
19865.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
19879.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
沒關係啦 我知道 你有困擾我知道我一說我講的這個數字是正確的吧沒有錯吧 台電1000億 中央部會減了440個縣市減了 全部的部份減了636那你們一年的預算是3兆你們減440我算過是1.5%你們說這個3很多 沒有空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
19883.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
19888.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
那地方政府是2500補助的是250億你們刪減636億是27%你減1.5%你就哭到不行了還要往下去砍你給地方減27%你就要叫地方去跳樓吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
19897.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
19915.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
你 你知道我的意思嗎 你知道我的意思嗎你減1.5%就已經挨被靠物了啊地方你給他減27% 你叫地方政府全部去切腹自殺啊636億佔稅出 地方稅出只有3 佔多少幾%3.9而已3.9 對 好啦 就他 只有佔3%對 OK 你們佔1點 你們點 你們是1.3你們1.5你們就受不了 啊他3.9是兩倍他受得了喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
19926.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
19952.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
你聽我的意思嗎所以你撿的比地方還少沒關係啦 我現在只是想跟你講如果你沒有困難 我們其實也是支持你就是照那個程序去補追加 已經執行到五月六月了知道哪些地方做得好 哪些地方做得不好你就追加過來做得好的繼續 可能要多一點做不好就不要再做 還要節省不是去把地方政府當作漏票 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
19953.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
19973.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
你了解我意思嗎?擄人勒索真的是給人家這種感覺啦所以這個部分你還是要回去好好思考而且請你不要打臉賴清德總統啊你畢竟是他派的組織長啊你也跟他共事這麼久嘛一路跟你提拔上來你竟然修改他公告過的這個預算表這個是很不應該啦而且是違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
19974.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
19988.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
我想這個可能還有法律問題啊好嗎 也不要害下面在執行的這些常任公務官違法嘛對不對 長官到時候違法下面如果跟著違法下面是有罪的不是沒有 沒有罪的沒有罪 有責任的好嗎好嗎理解嗎不是 我們這個是沒有違法的啦你沒有違法 好好 沒關係啊這個很多學者都說有違法 只是你說沒有法反正今天也要疏遠了好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
20003.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
20016.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
謝謝陳委員也請竹記長那個從善如流回去好好思考一下謝謝消費質詢請葉元之葉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
20031.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
20057.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
我先來問一下那個新北市政府先了解一下地方狀況好 請問新北市秘書長秘書長現在換人換誰主計處長吳建國我換主計處長主委長請問一下現在新北市被砍30.4新北市被中央砍了30.4億的一般性補助款這對新北市影響大不大 應該很大吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
20058.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
20078.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
我們現在目前估算的一般性補助款現在被刪減了30.4億元包括我們的什麼會影響到哪一些包括社會福利還有我們一些低收的比如營養午餐老人津貼包括身心障礙的 低收入戶還有一些弱勢兒童因為中央不給這個減少了30.4億這些都拿不到對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
20083.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
20098.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
會有影響會有影響喔那主席想問一個問題喔因為中央那個新北市主席也可以上來啦等一下要問因為那個中央我先問那個新北市中央現在是這樣子他想做的他就補助嘛他不想做就砍你嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
20099.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
20122.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
譬如說他希望中正路改名所以他就要補助新北市的中正路改名這個錢他就有了但是要補助你們因為一般性補助款是中央指定補助項目透過新北市然後去協助這些中低收入或教育社福或警察廳社這些他覺得這個錢可以砍但中正路改名一定要做我請教一下新北市政府的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
20123.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
20139.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
就新北市政府而言大張旗鼓地去改中正路、介受路不管是改路名也好或改這些機關名稱對新北市來說比較重要你們會放在優先順序會放在前面還是你覺得社福教育跟警察聽社你會放在前面是哪一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
20140.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
20157.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
我想這個改名這部分不是我這邊的業務啦因為你現在是新北市政府代表嘛對 但是就一些弱勢族群的一些經費的部分的話如果是你們來講的話 如果中央給你一筆錢你會把它給教育社福優先 還是你會拿去改名 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
20159.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
20186.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
那個弱勢族群是很重要的好謝謝新北市政府我請教一下主席長主席長那個我們現在行政院一直推給說地方一般性補助款被砍是因為藍白山預算嘛你們都是這樣講我請教一下你們當初總預算編了2501億一般性補助款這一檔有三億毛錢嗎 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
20188.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
20215.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
這個部分是在審查的時候是沒有但是花了3.636億我等一下跟你討論我只是問有沒有刪這個項目沒有嘛沒有刪這個項目所以在野黨沒有要求刪這個項目我覺得這件事情大家先講清楚啦第二至於說為什麼行政院現在要去砍一般性補助款這600多億你也講很多次了啦你的理由是說因為你們被要求在九個項目裡面要通刪到900多億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
20216.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
20237.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
然後這11個項目但是裡面有指定的有300多億剩下有600多億你實在是找不到地方刪了所以你才去刪這一般性補助款嘛你的理由是這樣嘛對不對因為我們是刪減有困難好 刪減有困難嘛我想請教一下當初立法院通刪這11個項目裡面有沒有一般性補助款有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
20240.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
20268.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
不是他是刪項目然後他說他是說在這11個項目裡面通刪嘛可是那11個項目裡面有沒有一般性補助款有沒有嘛他是說不夠要另外補足所以那11個項目裡面你一毛都刪不掉然後你另外從那11個項目裡面外面去找一個一般性補助款他說不夠要補助那我請教一下剛剛地方政府也表達啦你們現在中央其實很多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
20270.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
20298.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
優先順序你們可以做調整嘛譬如說這600多億你可以去找輕重緩急去找啊有一些去年度執行率沒有那麼好的啊有一些沒有很急著做的啊有一些是可能刪掉對人民影響不大的你先去刪啊結果你不是你去刪了一個地方非常重要的項目社福教育所以在中央的角度裡面社福教育還不如中正路改名重要啊我覺得真的很離譜耶對你們而言搞意識形態 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
20299.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
20305.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
比地方的社福教育、警察、消防、聽社還要重要耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
20306.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
20333.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
績字也可以順序調整啦所以我覺得這個就是這樣政治就是做資源分配啦行政院你要刪六百多億你可以從全國這麼多的事務裡面去刪其他的中正入改名你覺得一定要做意識形態你覺得一定要搞還有什麼特別費什麼的出國旅費那些你都動不了但是地方的教育社福砍了沒關係這就是你民進黨政府現在施政底下的優先順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
20336.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
20351.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
我覺得基層的民眾看到這樣子會覺得很寒心然後再來啊卓恩泰院長講說沒關係啊反正地方政府也可以把稅計剩餘拿出來編來做這個事啊你知道以新北市來講他去年稅計剩餘多少你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
20353.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
20371.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
不知道齁 21億啦 我直接告訴你啦那 稅季剩餘是去年吧 對吧通常如果去年有稅季剩餘但是之前有累虧的話是不是也要把這個稅季剩餘拿去還債 是不是那你知不知道新北市政府從蘇貞昌當縣長以來舉債到現在累虧是多少 你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
20374.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
20389.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
累虧887億所以他在有累虧887億的情況之下去年有剩餘你叫人家把剩餘拿出來補你亂砍的一般性補助款這樣合理嗎主計長在你們的會計做法可以這樣做嗎可以這樣做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
20390.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
20419.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
原則上是盡量盡量沒有盡量這種東西我問你可不可以這樣做啦人家有累虧800多億然後去年稅率剩餘21億可不可以直接拿來不還債直接拿來花可不可以原則上是我們是希望說能夠盡量來調整那如果不行我們行政院會來協助所以你們卓榮泰就亂講嘛因為去年有稅率剩餘所以就那他都沒有他都不知道人家有累虧喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
20421.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
20443.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
所以整個政府都是在劃數全部都在劃數我雖然我們政府正在本於人民的需求在施政好不好你去看一下各地方政府有沒有很需要這筆一般性補助款嘛如果有需要就要補助給人家嘛中央裡面優先順序嘛像中正路改名像這種每一個都在罵的你去做民意調查啦你去問中正路的上面的居民啦有沒有人想要改啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
20444.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
20461.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
一去改中正路 身份證要換 戶籍等本要換 地籍等本要換然後所有在外面登的所有機構地址全部都要換你去問一下台灣人民有多少人想要改中正路然後這筆錢你硬要留著然後呢 有些很需要的 比如說基層的社福教育這些砍了沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
20462.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
20486.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
所以政府怎麼會這樣施政啊政府是做資源分配把錢用在最需要的上面你們砍了最需要的錢結果把那些大家覺得不需要錢硬要保留著只要滿足政府的意識形態可以這樣子喔然後行政院長一跳出來在那邊胡說八道說什麼剩餘的就可以拿來那之前的那個累虧咧不用管喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
20487.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
20495.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
所以今天這個案子啦我希望可以懸崖勒馬啦趕快該給人家的一般性補助款確定就趕快補啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
20496.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
20524.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
所以我們也希望說提出解決的辦法將來立法院能夠提出來但是你一碼歸一碼嘛人家地方錢你要先給人家然後你如果中央你覺得我真的好想改中正路好想改喔那缺多少你提那個追加預算來嘛但是你該給人家錢要先還嘛好不好我覺得要先順序要先定好啦謝謝謝謝葉忍之委員謝謝接著我們請王宏威委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
20535.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
20544.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
好謝謝主席我請我們台北市代表現在是財政局局長嗎那另外就是主計長局長好主計長陳主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
20551.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
20576.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
我先請教我們台北市財政局局長在刪除了台北市的一般補助款之後請問一下台北市的教育經費例如學校的水電費例如親韓學生的營養午餐費有沒有受到影響跟委員報告因為就教育的部分我們被刪了12 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
20579.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
20597.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
那在這個包括我們親韓學生的午餐費都可能會受到影響那另外老人的福利也受到很多的影響所以我們在內部討論的時候我們的社會局長教育局長都愁眉苦臉不知道要從何下手 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
20599.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
20627.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
我想請問一下清涵學生大概是多少人呢大概有1.6萬戶就是1.6萬戶清涵學生的營養午餐受到影響然後老人的福利也會受到影響那老人福利主要是在哪一個部分包括老人的乘車補助收容安置長照以及包括我們健保自負額的補助等等都受到影響所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
20630.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
20654.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
按照現在中央這樣一刀砍下去雖然台北市是財政比較好一點因為我所知道像包含宜蘭跟苗栗恐怕都要舉債度日那即便是台北市的話我們其實倒楣的又是我們的孩子跟我們的長者我們過去一直在講就說窮不能窮教育 苦不能苦孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
20654.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
20680.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
所以這次這樣砍下去對台北市確實包含我們的長者跟我們的孩子學校會受到影響所以我在這邊也應該呼叫一下我們台北市另外兩位立委吳思瑤委員和吳佩奕委員他們支不支持行政院這樣胡砍亂砍的一個方式然後直接影響到我們台北市的孩子們苦了我們尤其是親韓學生的營養午餐讓他們吃不飽 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
20683.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
20701.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
好 我們這些 如果今天這些大人們吃得飽飽的然後呢 那我們的孩子吃不飽這是不是我們民進黨台北市立委兩位立委 他們認為這是應該的好 那我想 我再請教一下我們主計長主計長那個Paul Pong 準備一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
20709.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
20728.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
這個法定義務法律義務支出明細表這是不是主計處提供的是是主計處提供的對不對那請問在一百一四年度的法律義務支出明細表裡面有沒有對地方的一般補助款有沒有有有金額多少兩件五百零一 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
20732.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
20746.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
兩千五百零一億 對不對那所以這個項目也是你們這次砍的項目嘛 對不對啊 那奇怪了既然是法律義務支出這個是你提供給立法院的嘛 對不對為什麼提供給立法院為什麼要把這個明信表提供給立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
20754.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
20778.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
因為告訴我們立法院說這些不能刪嘛對不對就是你送到立法院來審預算的時候我們不能砍這些預算對吧是不是原則上是希望盡量不要刪啦就是不能砍嘛不然什麼叫做法律義務支出呢就是告訴你立法院這些你不要砍你不能砍因為他都有相關的法律依據嘛你會有法律依據嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
20780.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
20797.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
為什麼立法院不能砍你們行政院可以砍呢因為以往立法院審查還是有刪減的一個案例譬如說國債複洗譬如說拆團法兩維權統治所以你們可以砍你自己說是法律義務之初然後你自己砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
20799.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
20814.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
不是因為我們盡量不要砍但是你不得不的時候你怎麼叫不得不為什麼不得不要去砍到法律因為你要砍636我們的確有問題是這樣子所以有什麼問題呢我們剛才也講請問一下我們刪除了636億裡面有11項這11項裡面有沒有對地方補助有沒有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
20826.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
20831.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
我們砍掉的636億裡面的桶山一共有11項這11項裡面哪一個是對地方補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
20834.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
20863.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
她是沒有但是她是做到另外刪減補足那不是就是在你那個所有統刪的項目裡面去統刪嗎統刪項目沒辦法這樣刪統刪項目沒辦法刪特別費你沒辦法刪對不對請問一下統刪項目裡面有沒有特別費特別費刪了已經上百分之六十了有沒有主管的特別費所以主管特別費沒有刪沒有辦法刪已經上百分之六十了行政院的這些長官的特別費不能刪然後孩子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
20864.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
20877.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
營養這個清涵學生的這個午餐 營養午餐可以刪你就告訴我這個意思嘛蛤 是不是掌酸的特別費不能刪好 那我請問一下我請問一下在這個統山項目裡面有沒有包含公務車的有沒有公務車沒有沒有公務車沒有嗎它是設備及投資啊對啊 相關的設備啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
20895.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
20918.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
相關的支出啊 有沒有他有刪設備及偷支 但是沒有指定說要刪車輛對 但是 包不包含公務車嘛 包不包含嘛應該是包含 好 所以你又告訴我這些行政院高官的公務車不能刪但是呢 親韓學生的營養午餐可以刪因為你告訴我們這些都不能刪嘛合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
20922.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
20950.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
我們已經講過這個統山的項目裡面就是在那十一項啊那十一項裡面沒有對地方的補助款那十一項裡面含有我剛講的包含高官的特資費包含公務車特資費公務車你不能砍你可以砍對地方補助款你可以砍掉對長者不管是敬老老人年金農保的補助或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
20952.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
20959.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
親韓學生的這些營養午餐你告訴我就是這些啊 合理嗎還不要講什麼中正路咧該刪不刪我問你嘛我問你 主席長主席長我問你當你這樣亂刪的時候刪到親韓學生的營養午餐你覺得你於心何忍 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
20980.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
20996.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
妳覺得應該嗎如果是我們在處理我們不衛生青函學生的那個午餐啦可是這就是包含他的項目就在這裡面啊對 但是我們可以准結其他不必要的開支啊那請問為什麼你們都不准結其他你們必要的開支呢你們 請問一下我們統生項目裡面有沒有包含媒體宣傳會有沒有媒體宣傳會 百分之六十了還可不可以刪呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
21008.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
21013.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
不能刪 又已經刪了百分之六十了特別會也刪百分之六十了出國會也刪百分之六十了大陸也刪百分之八十了 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
21027.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
21044.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
高官坐商務艙不能刪高官的坐車不能刪高官的特製費不能刪但是親韓學生的營養午餐可以刪這就是你們今天亂砍地方補助款最後的結果可惡了真的很可惡 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
21045.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
21074.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
你說要用一些補救措施請你補救措施最應該要做的就是你們先把你們自己先好好重新檢視一下六百多億我不相信在中央將近三兆元裡面你說你六百多億你沒有辦法遵截一定要去看一定要去摳住這些教育費或者社會福利的這些相關費用這個實在是太超過以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
21075.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
21076.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
謝謝主席 本席請主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
21107.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
21125.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
主席長 您剛剛一直說630.61不能刪了本席想請問您 你有召開相關部會整個過來大家一起協調嗎 有沒有有沒有 不要浪費我時間好 OK 你就詢問幾個 程序完全錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
21135.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
21154.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
你玩 你應該 這636億叫做通案刪減你就應該把各部會找來大家討論到底誰哪裡可以挪 哪裡可以挪你沒有 你沒有你這個就是程序不正義 程序錯誤再來你剛剛說你有問幾個 請問你問了幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
21157.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
21187.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
我有問財政部啦所以你只問財政部所以大家要知道我們真的要請在座的我們各地政府還有我們其他各部會的包含媒體還有我們這個網路的民眾你這個通案刪減應該要召集各部會的你問都沒問就問個財政部好啊那你問都不問表示其實可以刪你沒有刪嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
21188.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
21214.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
對不對對然後你剛剛你沒有問你就回答所有的立委說喔真的不能再刪了怎麼有這種做事的主席長因為我對您不熟啊我還特別看了一下你是我學姊你在成大兩年我在成大四年所以你這樣做事我真的我覺得很訝異這第一個所以很明顯我們行政單位就是有瑕疵再來第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
21215.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
21231.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
你地方政府你不該刪的你這樣給他刪減這個剛剛很多委員講了那本席還要追究您的責任因為立法院每年審查運算通案刪減他是常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
21232.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
21249.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
也就是說不管馬英九總統陳水扁總統馬英九總統到蔡英文總統都是如此為什麼過去通案刪減沒有像今年這麼荒謬的情況原因在於通案刪減提出來之後我們要三讀之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
21250.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
21268.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
其實立法院都會通知行政院還有我們特別你們財主單位還有各部會要一起來協調請問去年或者是今年1月就總之就是在我們預算三讀之前你有沒有接到通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
21271.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
21291.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
你有接到通知 你有參加不是喔 我是指各部會來你們所有有各部會有來嗎本席知道的是要協調的時候你們沒有各部會來協調這就是最大的程序瑕疵 程序問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
21292.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
21319.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
因為事實上我要跟委員報告我們秘書長也有召開就是針對計劃型補助能不能刪減但是還是大家都沒有辦法刪減所以計劃型補助不是叫做計劃型補助你這個顧卓悠而言她你們你現在要給我跳開了我現在講的是我們在三讀整個通案三檢三讀之前大家都會找來然後好好的協調每一個案怎麼樣三檢怎麼樣三檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
21321.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
21346.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
今年最特別就是你們很多單位沒有參與而且沒有進行這個必要的程序才出現這個問題出現了這個問題之後應該是各部會刪減你們也沒刪減所以才產生現在你們竟然你們是刻意其實是惡意的給地方政府然後然後執政黨一直說是藍白亂刪預算藍白沒有亂刪預算是你們該通案 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
21351.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
21359.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
協調討論的時候完全沒有協調討論我是問組長我是請我們處長來答覆什麼公務預算處的處長是有看協商會議但是沒有共識協商會議大家有來嗎有但是沒有共識所以問題就出在怎麼樣沒有共識你說嗎那一天的實際的情況你們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
21379.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
21394.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
當時在討論的時候因為三黨的說明當然最後就是沒有結果嘛過去所有的行政單位都會來說明你們那一天所有行政單位有來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
21395.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
21424.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
沒有啊因為是第一 前面前面不會請所有的部會都來前面應該是由我們主席總署還有各黨團的那個總召還有幹部先討論到最後怎麼進行後面的協商程序對 應該要進行後面的協商程序但是前面這一步他就已經沒有共識了就後面就沒有召開了那為什麼沒有共識要刪這個為什麼沒有共識你們 那就是你們等於 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
21425.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
21448.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
不買這個帳嘛不應該啊你們就應該要協調啊所以從頭到尾行政單位該每個部會來協調即便三讀通過以後你們該做的也是這件事沒有做所以千萬不要說藍白亂三一算藍白沒有亂三一算藍白的行為都是合法合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
21449.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
21477.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
因為沒有經過協商最後就是進到院會去表決然後刪減這樣的數額好 表決 所以我剛剛講嘛表決通過以後你們各部會應該找來協商 沒有協商欸 這個主計長你剛剛回答很多委員你都說沒有辦法你沒有召開大家過來協商你就說沒有辦法你這個在國會這樣隨意亂答我跟你講 你會有責任 我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
21480.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
21482.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
你們根本就是用立場在講話不是協商沒有被採納而是你們沒有接納因為我們就是636億啊所以主席長我真的很遺憾你可能會有責任就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
21501.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
21522.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
謝謝許卿委員我補充說明啦因為每一年省總預算我都有參加第二輪的我都有參加今天比較特別是因為在審查的時候柯建民就開始講古他永遠就是這樣以前都不會啊 以前都是照審嘛這是講古 所以後來就變成不了了之了還是要找柯總招了接著我們請許曉欣委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
21524.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
21544.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
許曉欣 許曉欣不在 王美和 王美和用書面蘇清泉委員也是用書面 蘇清衛用書面廖仙祥 廖仙祥 廖仙祥不在 林思明委員用書面陳培瑜 陳培瑜陳培瑜不在 陳冠廷 陳冠廷陳冠廷有書面嗎 陳冠廷用書面 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
21546.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
21574.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
今日登基發言委員今已詢答完畢本日會議作如下決定說明報告及詢答完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一週以內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定委員邱政軍 林思明 蘇清泉 王美惠 陳冠平所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
21575.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
21604.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
本院台灣民眾黨黨團米聚立即將一般性補助款逐額撥付與地方政府之提案如復見因在場委員不足法定人數我們另外則其審查本次會議程已進行完畢堂友不在場委員補題書面質詢已並列入記錄並刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理好各位縣市政府還有各位各部會的長官辛苦了好我們今天散會謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
21606.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
21606.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
今天在... |