| IVOD_ID |
16725 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16725 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-15,36-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-02T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-02T11:20:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:50:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea7dcd1dfdf6b0e5229b5fa2f296a93534fdab1a38f0d348c0e6c42a371620bf535ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：一、繼續審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。二、繼續審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。三、繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「地方制度法第八十三條之三條文修正草案」案。四、繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「地方制度法第五十二條及第六十一條條文修正草案」案。五、繼續審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法第五十六條條文修正草案」案。六、繼續審查委員李坤城等20人擬具「地方制度法第七十八條條文修正草案」案。七、繼續審查委員李彥秀等16人擬具「地方制度法第五十五條及第五十六條條文修正草案」案。八、繼續審查委員高金素梅等18人擬具「地方制度法第八十三條之三條文修正草案」案。九、繼續審查委員魯明哲等16人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。十、繼續審查委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「地方制度法第五十五條條文修正草案」案。十一、繼續審查委員盧縣一等18人擬具「地方制度法部分條文修正草案」案。十二、繼續審查委員邱鎮軍等16人擬具「地方制度法第五十五條及第五十六條條文修正草案」案。十三、繼續審查委員蘇清泉等19人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。十四、繼續審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。十五、繼續審查委員范雲等24人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。十六、繼續審查委員徐富癸等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。十七、繼續審查委員許智傑等26人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 11:20:00 |
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| transcript.pyannote[1529].start |
9820.03221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[1529].end |
9820.38659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[1530].speaker |
SPEAKER_14 |
| transcript.pyannote[1530].start |
9820.38659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[1530].end |
9820.53846875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
2156.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
2166.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
大家早安,請主任秘書報告出席人數報告聯席會出席委員12人,已足法定人數謝謝,現在開會,進行報告事項,請宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2169.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2195.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期內政司法及法治委員會第一次聯席會議議事錄時間一百十四年五月十九日星期一上午九十七分至十一時五十一分地點紅樓二零二會議室出席委員蔓越貞委員等二十六人列席委員鄭振淺委員等十人列席官員內政部部長劉世芳其相關人員原住民組委員會副主任委員鍾新華其相關人員財政部政務次長阮清華其相關人員法務部參事廖江憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2196.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2221.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
中央選舉委員會 權需部 國家發展委員會 行政院性別平等處行政院人事行政總處 行政院主計總處等機關代表及相關人員主席 劉昭基委員許庭討論事項一 繼續審查地方制度法修正草案 暨11案二 審查地方制度法修正草案 暨6案委員范雲 黃婕說明提案要旨決議地方制度法修正草案等17案一 第33條已有共識條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2222.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2246.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
第55條第56條第78條第83條之7含修正動議及增訂第83條之12均暫行保留請行政機關暫行研議提出修正意見預計二周後再次排案處理而討論事項所列議案均另定期繼續審查宣讀完畢謝謝請問各位委員上次會議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2248.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2251.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
梅娃豪意思如確定我們繼續進行討論事項請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2254.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2280.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
继续审查委员赖世宝等20人拟据地方制度法第7条之1条文修正草案继续审查委员陈玉珍等18人拟据地方制度法增订第7条之4条文草案继续审查委员吴丽华等17人拟据地方制度法第83条之3条文修正草案继续审查委员吴丽华等16人拟据地方制度法第52条及第61条条文修正草案继续审查委员陈玉珍等18人拟据地方制度法第56条条文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2281.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2307.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
继续审查委员李坤诚等20人拟据地方制度法第78条条文修正查案继续审查委员李燕秀等16人拟据地方制度法第55条及第56条条文修正查案继续审查委员高金素美等18人拟据地方制度法第83条至3条文修正查案继续审查委员鲁明哲等16人拟据地方制度法第7条至1条文修正查案继续审查委员徐晓欣等21人拟据地方制度法第55条条文修正查案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2307.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2331.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
继续审查委员卢宪一等18人拟据地方制度法部分条文修正草案案继续审查委员邱振军等16人拟据地方制度法第55条及第56条条文修正草案继续审查委员苏清泉等19人委员黄杰等18人委员范云等24人委员徐富贵等17人委员许志杰等26人分辨拟据地方制度法第33条条文修正草案案宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2335.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2357.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好 謝謝本日審查這法案 業經本會於114年5月19日第11屆第三會期第一次內政及司法委員會聯席會議決議令定期繼續審查 延遲本次會議繼續進行審查現在介紹在場委員及列席官員委員的部分 我們張宏祿召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2359.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2385.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
王美惠委員蘇強惠委員黃婕委員李柏毅委員還有我們高金素美委員還有我們李坤成委員盧憲毅委員以及李燕秀委員官員的部分我們內政部劉思芳部長原住民族委員會我們鍾欣華副主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2386.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2394.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
還有我們財政部阮清華政務次長補充介紹我們徐益臻委員也到現場這個委員都有了嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2403.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2425.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我跟聯席委員會報告一下因為今天我們有收到新的這個有關於第55條及56條的修正動議那現在議事人員正在進行印發我們在這樣他在印製的過程中我們先請這個我們先請這個議事人員針對新增的修正動議進行宣讀第56條 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2432.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2452.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第二項前段修正為縣市政府置秘書長一人並得置副秘書長一人其餘同委員陳玉珍等版本其餘同委員陳玉珍等版本等提案版本修正動議第61條 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2456.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2476.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
增訂第三項直轄市長、縣市長、鄉鎮市長依第七十八條第一項獲公職人員選舉罷免法第117條第一項規定停職期間不得發給新籍依其依第七十八條第三項第五項獲公職人員選舉罷免法第117條第二項規定復職後予以補發 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2481.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2498.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
原第三項一列第四項其餘同現行條文提案人委員王美惠黃婕蘇巧惠李坤成修正動議第五十五條增訂第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2500.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2527.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第一項修正為直轄市政府至市長院對外代表該市縱理市政由市民依法選舉之每屆任期四年連選得連任一屆至副市長三人商助市長處理市政職務均比照檢認第十四職等由市長任命並報請行政院被查增訂第五項中華民國春年春月春日修正之第一項規定自一百十五年一月一日施行其餘同現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2528.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2552.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第五十六條第一項中斷增訂致富縣市長二人增訂第五項中華民國圈年圈月圈日修正之第一項規定自一百十五年一月一日施行其其與同現行條文提案人委員牛許廷等十一人宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2564.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2573.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 報告聯席會我們現在延續上次會議的決議我們進行暫時保留的條文協商現在進行註聊協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2644.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2659.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 大家手上資料都拿到了嗎那我們一條一條來 好不好七之一 連續兩次沒來 我們就不許修正 可以嗎有沒有問題 好 謝謝七之四 一樣 其他人沒有來嘛三次了嘛 那我們就不許採納 可以嗎三三條 上次基本上達成共識嘛 對不對我們照委員會審查版本通過 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2677.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2699.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
有簽字的嘛有婦人保障這個嘛 來 這裡應該大家都有啦我們不確定啦 好不好委員會審查完了版本因為今天天天禮拜有的沒來的時候 如果需要補充的 要印一下嗎印就給他印一下好不好請他再印一下印一下 桌上應該有吧對 桌上有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2731.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2738.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
好 應該沒有問題好不好我們這邊就速判速決好不好好52條一樣提案委員不在場 我們就不予處理喔 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2741.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2767.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好 五十五條 五十六條有修正動議那個我跟大家先簡報一下就是說上次我們討論五十五跟五十六基本上就是副市長跟副縣長的配套嘛那上次大家在那邊討論說是不是有藝人設施或量身打造的問題那我們那邊講其實講得也蠻清楚其實是因為財政收支劃分法明年要上路之後地方的市權增加所以其實在人員上應該要增加讓地方政府好做事啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2767.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2791.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那這一次提出來的陳超平委員有提修正動議他談的是副秘書長的部分那我們先請他發言那待會李彥秀委員應該說我這邊提出的修正動議的部分我會來做補充發言好不好我們先請陳超平委員首先啦我謝謝主席關於支持我們都是一個副市長副縣長我們原則都是全力的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2792.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2801.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那今天我特別在修正同意裡面提出得志婦女死長藝人那可能我的經歷比較特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2802.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2826.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我不是依老賣老我從省議員選到立法院都是選全線的那給我感觸非常的深都市在選舉的時候都很平的路但是回六都的時候山上哪個地方要跑譬如苗栗我由北跑到南大概要50分鐘到一個小時的車程當時是全線線的選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2830.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2856.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那現在百姓對於政府的要求越來越多大家都曉得不管市長、縣長或是兩個副市長在跑行程的時候要面面機到但是祕師長是佔了一個很重要的地位那普通啊如果只有一個縣長一個市長一個副縣長那實在跑不來祕師長有時候都要出去但是祕師長是一個跟縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2859.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2876.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
市政府是一種非常決策單位的一個單位在那我想在這個地方如果能多生一個副秘書長尤其在財政收支化分來以後我相信對於市政府或是縣政府的幫忙很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2876.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2897.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我希望這一點不要以人事的多寡,面積才是最重要我實際講,選舉期間,南北噴波,現在分成兩個選區大概三個月我就要換一次輪胎,你沒照過在城坡,沒在照過你都不知道跑來跑去的時候,那個是實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2899.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2912.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
要費很大的心力那今天我還請內政委員會能增設一個負面市場但是用德無限政府去決定這樣看大家各位能不能考慮一下好我們還有人要補充一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2921.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2939.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們556一起討論好了因為我覺得這樣其實比較快啦我跟大家說明一下55條56條我們這邊的修正動議齁因為上次我們討論的時候就是到底狀況是怎麼樣嘛那我們講說既然是因應財政收支劃分法那其實就是概念很單純基本上六都就是固定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2940.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2959.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
副市長三人但是有所謂的日出條款也就是從因為現在財化法你預算要編要等等基本上其實就是明年才上路那我們這個副市長三人的這個機制的上路的時間我們就一樣壓在明年的1月1號這樣讓他完全齊平因為你執行新的預算增加新的試卷都是在明年初開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2960.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2980.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那我們就不要一人設置就是在那個時候才開始做制度的調整這是55條三個副市長然後加日出條款56條的部分因為財政收支劃分法的修正之後也不只是直轄市的任務變多縣市政府的工作一樣變多所以就每一個縣市也就不要分了就是兩個都是兩個副縣長 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2983.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2998.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那加上剛剛陳昌明委員提是不是可以得志副秘書長一人那我們一樣統一由明年年初一二一號配合財政措施劃分法新的預算一起上路好這是我們這邊國民黨黨團這邊提出修正東西的內容那我們聽聽各位委員的意見跟看法 以上我們請徐執政委員先然後我們請那個李柏毅委員好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3006.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3030.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
謝謝昭緯我想其實為什麼說要再增加一位副市長因為大家可以知道其實我們現在的這個地方制度法過去修法的過程我們是在99年增加人口250萬以上的直轄市可以再增設副市長一人但是15年過去了期間都沒有再檢討過副市長的人數跟條件但是隨著地方事務的這個多元跟繁雜不管是長照環保公務還有城市發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3032.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3059.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
事物的值跟量都大幅的在增加更不要說是在財化法通過之後地方政府要承接起更多來自中央的業務所以這都是需要增加副市長的一個原因再來就是說因為現在受到全國少子女化的趨勢的一個影響其實很多居住在都會區的他推動的不管是基礎建設或規劃的城市願景維持的都市運行不會因為人口的浮動而縮減 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3060.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3077.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
其實都持續需要副市長的相助政務來督導市政第二個因為生活圈的一個生活形態的改變有許多的通勤族雖然居住在外縣市但是每日往返到不管是台北或新北雙北之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3078.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3092.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
工作人口都需要有市政建設對其提供服務所以在才化法修正過後相關的預算會配合會計年度做出調整所以我們也是希望統一從明年的1月1號起施行謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3098.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3122.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
其實我們在討論這個地方制度法的時候我們就有一直提到跟財化法應該是一起討論那今天很遺憾國民黨委員提出來的這一些第55條的這個版本反而是倒果為因就是說財化法我已經給你多多少錢了所以市長我要增加 副市長我要增加而且喔 而且我是要從 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3125.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3142.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
115年1月1號開始請不要忘了一開始我們在質疑這一點的時候就是在說這個就是為了蔣萬安嘛這個就是為了蔣萬安如果他的副市長請辭去選舉他不能再補一個副市長會讓他更不會做事嗎這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3144.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3163.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以我們還是要提出來我們針對這個條款我認為地方制度法跟財化法這個需要整盤的討論而不是說你先把先把果拿走了先把財化法先把台北市增加預算了然後就說我們不行喔我們不能少一個副市長喔我們要增加一個副市長而且你看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3164.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3192.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
今天提出來這個修正動議是115年1月1號開始實施就是什麼就是他副市長辭掉之後他可以趕快再補一個讓蔣萬安保包條款可以落實在這個地方制度法裡面讓他可以再補一個副市長我覺得應該是整體來討論而不是用一個因人設施的方式來做這個修法啦這是我在提出來的這個看法跟我們之前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3192.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3211.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
跟我之前提出來的論點是一模一樣的 謝謝好我再補充說明一下齁我覺得這種倒果為因講是有點奇怪啦就難道是為了李四川跟蔣萬歲修才化法嗎不是嘛才化法修正通過已經是一個事實了嘛那既然是一個事實就要處理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3212.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3235.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
對不對你如果要這樣講那是其中一部分你先不要打斷我嘛我一樣發言的決定好不好我等一下給你發言的時間等我一下好不好這第一個那第二個上次我們上次我們在委員會討論是不是就有人講說只要修正完之後就馬上就有李士川辭職的問題然後怎樣怎樣怎樣那我們講嘛我們始終的立場都是因為是財政收支劃分法所以要處理人事緣和的一個調整嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3236.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3264.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以為了讓這件事情更確定也更完整所以我們做了修正東西加日出條款其實邏輯上並沒有改變嘛就一樣的意思嘛就是明年才上路啊你如果說不管各個縣市你要搞選舉佈局或什麼那也要等到明年明年才來做處理嘛對不對你今年馬上辭職那也就是那也就是欲缺不補嘛對不對日出條款的原因就是要對齊裁判法的真正的上路的日期啦好不好我再次補充做說明好各位委員委員會委員要先嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3267.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3275.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
就是在這裏我覺得我的意見是有這個想法說實在因為明年營業以後大致這台的管理廠保安在裡面所以大家會這樣想我說我們要不要用這台 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3289.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3302.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
過,會心靈的,再來有這個想法啦因為我覺得每一個想法,我們都是說,要去尊重以我自己來講,我今天去看的說,跟你們怎麼討論,怎麼討論跟我自己吃都不一樣,跟我自己吃的面子很大吃得著要吃,負吃得著要吃說實在也很辛苦,是怎麼自己吃,不然比白人還小啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3317.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3325.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
沒有,是因為那個是另外再修的才有,古代的都沒看到啊是現在有,所以我覺得大家做參考說,我們也不能浪費 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3333.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3343.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我們國庫的錢,我們這個財務法不是說本本的要來站這裡,或是要來站副市長,或是站什麼,我認為會被佩姓想這樣也不好,跟剛才柏毅說的時候,是大家有自己的想法,如果有自己的想法,我們要怎麼去解釋,就很清楚了啦,跟我的主張是覺得說,我們如果這個過,來處理,可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3363.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3364.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這個 想說有可能因為誰落在這個法庭上是不是會有這個情形啊 醫生 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3376.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3399.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
徐醫生委員 然後蘇蔣會委員好 謝謝好 黃建委員好 謝謝 謝謝昭偉我想在這邊也謝謝民進黨的委員什麼都講到 想到蔣萬安為蔣萬安設想我想這件事我們今天做這樣祭祀法的修正絕對不是因人設事而是針對整體的考量包括我剛剛提到的就是說台北市 好 剛剛講到台北市台北市的人口多的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3400.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3420.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
推動的基礎建設規劃的城市願景維持著都市運行不會因為人口的浮動而縮減所以他當然持續需要有一個副市長來相助政務督導市政這是我們今天特別提出來的希望還是能夠我們的這個都而且不是走台北市是六都我們都希望有這個三位副市長來相助 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3422.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3447.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
而且再來就是說我們都知道雙北很多都是不管是從這個桃園來的新竹來的甚至基隆來的都是通勤人口在台北市工作所以說它整個的規模呢其實呢還是需要市政建設對其提供服務所以我覺得這個部分我們就是很就事論事的來針對這個地質法的一個修正來去做一個討論希望不要再去扯什麼個案啊因人甚事 謝謝來 黃教委 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3454.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3473.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
喂喂喂好那我的想法是如果真的是因为才化法要一起讨论的话其实在去年年去年下半年的时候就应该要跟才化法来一起讨论了毕竟我们当时也不断的呼吁说地方制度法里面的是权的事项跟才化法的这个钱应该是要一致来讨论的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3474.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3496.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
但非常可惜的是去年下半年我們看到的就是國民黨不斷的過水市的這樣子的通過然後不斷的加速的在把這個財化法通過然後甚至也不聽各縣市的意見包括我們南部縣市導致於我們南部縣市其實像高雄市在財化法裡面受傷最重的因為增加的這個預算最少那 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3497.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3514.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
現在你跟我說因為才化法修了所以我們才要來修地方制度法那是不是太慢了呢那包括這個地方事務的一些事項其實早在去年就應該討論那我們現在要討論可以那是不是把所有哪一些事權要重新分配地方都拿出來討論啊怎麼會現在只討論為了一個副市長然後就說是因應才化法聽起來其實是有一點牽強的 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3521.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3542.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那我認為要討論市權分配可以那我們重新把這個財化法裡面的到底哪一些錢重新撥給地方了哪一些市權應該要在地方制度法裡面一項一項的拿出來討論我覺得都可以但不可以單單的討論這個要增加三個副市長這件事情因為這樣很明顯是為了要包裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3544.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3546.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
剛剛說的只是為了要讓蔣萬安有第三個副市長可以可以保護那我會覺得這很明顯很明顯是在保護蔣萬安啦所以我們說他是一個蔣萬安條款其實也也非常的對恰如其分這個就是大家質疑的嘛那我覺得如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3564.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3581.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
要讓大家覺得說這是一個公平而且非常合理而且不是因人設事的一個考量那我覺得日出條款不應該從明年開始最少最少也是從下一屆開始嘛你要讓大家說服大家說沒有我不是為了要保護蔣安安那你至少說明年2026年下半年的這個縣市長選舉的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3586.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3601.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
新的一屆開始再生效這樣是不是比較合情合理呢那再來我還是講一下其實啊這個我們過去地質法裡面要不要設幾個副的副手都是有一個非常公平性的考量就是我們會看 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3603.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3621.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個直轄市裡面然後縣市裡面的人口數所以人口數是一個非常明確的指標也非常的公平那現在如果我們修法直接把人口數這個指標拿掉了那至少要拿出一個可以說服全國人民的一個參考的指標吧我們到底是依據什麼樣的指標來訂定要幾位副市長呢而不是一概而論不論你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3627.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3652.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
縣市人口是180萬還是400萬通通都有三個副市長那這樣子對於市權的分配真的有幫助嗎我給大家舉一個例子其實在韓國裡面他們有六個廣域市他們的廣域市大概就是我們的直轄市韓國的法律裡面規定是如果你是廣域市那你就有兩個副市長那如果你的人口超過800萬你才可以有第三個副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3653.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3671.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這個也是其實很多國家也都是這樣定定的就是你一個像我們直轄市等級這樣的一個城市裡面都會設一個人數的門檻沒有說什麼一律都是三個人這麼的死板這樣子對於城市的治理有幫助嗎我反而是打一個問號 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3673.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3689.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以我希望大家可以參考包括國際的經驗也好包括我們過去地方制度法訂定的這樣的過程也好我都認為人口數是一個非常公平而且行之有年的指標希望大家可以把人口數這個指標留著謝謝謝謝55 56大家還有什麼想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3695.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3716.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
蘇曉慧委員請好 謝謝主席我想今天這個在修法的部分雖然我們看起來很認真在討論這個地方制度法的修正但我還是覺得很遺憾這一屆立法的修法品質在去年度的時候其實我們看得到的就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3717.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3731.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
炒成一片的狀態這種國會擴權的法案但現在這一屆我們好不容易可以安安靜靜做下來了可是其實你認真來看我們的修法我們並沒有把它是整套 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3732.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3759.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
縱向橫向所有方方面面一起考慮乍看之下這個條文看起來好像不錯可是實際上你回去看對應其他的事物其實並沒有達到配套完整的說法為什麼會這樣說呢大家可以看嘛以現在中央地方在處理權責這樣的事物來說的話我們之前的才化法是地方從中央拿走了錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3761.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3768.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
現在地方制度法是要人可是從頭到尾現在一年多的時間我們有討論事務事權怎麼分配嗎其實完全沒有啊事情沒有分配好卻拿走了錢增加了人那這到底是要處理什麼未來國家的事務從中央到地方到底要怎麼分 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3782.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3800.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這件事情其實沒有被討論過這就是今天最可怕的地方所以我們的立場當然外界會說你們民進黨如果有意見為什麼不提出版本各位我們的版本其實從頭到尾從去年到現在至始至終都是這一些所有相關的法條都應該一起討論討論好了之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3803.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3828.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所有的法案才下去一併做修正所以我們的立場就是不應該一段一段巨艦式的沒有中心思想的沒有配套的討論這是我們的版本這是我們的想法一以貫之那你如果是說其他的性別等等對啊那我們大家就可以來討論這無色中央地方是全是入的劃分所以我覺得這裡我們要再一次的提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3829.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3836.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這個再一次的對大眾說明我們本黨的立場是什麼這是第一件事情那第二件事情的話其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3838.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3863.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
剛剛也有委員說這個國民黨提出的版本絕對不是因人設事各位大家都知道嘛這有因才有果啊你為什麼要修這個一定是有起心動念起心動念大家很明白的是現在的實務上面是什麼就是台北市的狀況可能要發生變動所以台北市的委員率先提出了這樣的修法版本那也難怪大家會認為這就是台北市的特定條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3866.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3886.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
就是這麼清楚那所以台北市的特定條款對其他的縣市有沒有保護會不會像財化法修完了以後又是獨厚台北這些本來就已經不錯的縣市像我在在的說啊如果你要一起考量的話那新北市你加上原口指標那250萬就可以有3席那我們新北400萬是不是有4席 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3888.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3907.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
當然是可以考慮啊國民黨在新北也有六席委員那他們怎麼沒有提出這種版本在國民黨內就已經進行討論成為國民黨的共識這是反而是國民黨的新北市委員應該要負責任的啊本黨的立場在這裡我再次的聲明我們是所有的法案要配套一起討論的這是我們的立場嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3909.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3936.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以如果你單單在這裡要加上這個這個第幾席 第幾席這個是國民黨新北市委員也應該要率先提出的啊所以在這裡的話我們還是認為說這樣子的修法絕對會是一個因人設事這是無庸置疾今天如果也是用表決通過的話那這個條款就是確實是為台北市量身打造好 先讓我說明一下好不好我們再接著發言可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3938.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3963.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
要有兩種身份切換嘛對啊,那不然怎麼辦呢?是這樣,不過我現在很有效率啦你可以說,沒關係我現在撇除主席,我回覆我個人的我說明一下,然後我們就...到底為了什麼而修這個法,就是很清楚嘛裁判法的修正通過,它本來就是個事實嘛那剛剛喬惠委員講,事權會怎麼變換不管怎麼變換,這我相信大家都有概念就一定是地方的事變多嘛一定是地方的事變多 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3965.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3980.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
不管是哪些事情變多地方的事都會變多嘛對不對對不對所以這個一定會討論而且一定會移轉這我想是 我想是這樣啦所以我是覺得不管怎麼樣該可以這是可以被處理的嘛對不對我覺得大家講不同的意見沒有關係啦那 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3980.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4003.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
第二個是我其實是蠻希望看到大家不同委員如果有想法就有不同的版本比如說包含新北市要不要有新北市條款我覺得很好啊只要大家願意提提到這個地方我希望我主持會議本來就是大家都可以充分表達然後把各自的意見留在紀錄裡面嘛這其實是大家期待希望看到立法院的樣子那我們都盡量成就這件事情所以今天也許這個條文不會有共識那不會有共識那就照 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4004.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4025.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
本來就照議事規則就交黨團協商來做處理其實也就可以了但沒關係我今天就趁這個機會大家針對55 56這兩個條文充分的發言留下我們內政委員會的審查紀錄OK嗎好那剛剛是這應該是紅路召委先啊紅路召委先沒關係嗎好那吳清明委員好召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4026.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4034.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
針對55條,56條,55條的副市長,增設一個其實增設一個我是不反對,但是什麼時候要實施呢?因為說過去,我們想說議員三分之一就要一個女性那我們適用的時間是在119年就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4051.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4074.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
2030年你這樣才能因為不要說你了選舉為人而設你這樣來我們可以來討論也可以來通過但是時間上我本市我的建議是在119年跟議員同步因為縣市長跟議員都是同步的選舉是不是這樣這是我看法我希望說召委來做才是謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4081.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4100.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
好 謝謝吳清明委員 現在我們請李坤成委員謝謝主席 我先講56條好了 56條現在是修正動議是說可以設置這個副縣市長兩人就對了然後如果是在125萬以上再增設一人嗎 是這個意思嗎沒有 就是兩個人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4104.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4121.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
不管人口數多少沒有原則上是兩人啦我想我剛剛問了一下提案委員因為我有注意到這件事情因為他沒有把那個條文拿掉啦他沒有把125萬那個其實如果有固定兩人有沒有其實後面那個條文就不用了你這樣子整個法律的結構才會對稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4122.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4143.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
阿對阿所以我是覺得說因為我這樣看好像是說一百二十五萬以上阿還要得偵緝對那個沒有拿掉會混亂所以那個要把它拿掉這樣是對的阿所以是對你講的是對的所以是兩個還是三個兩個兩個嘛對阿所以這個應該要修吧修要修嘛對我們就先討論嘛因為大家不同然後我們就再形成版本好那五十六條這個比較單純我們先講一下啦謝謝坤城委員的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4145.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4158.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
55條其實我另一件也是就是說如果你不要讓人覺得說你是因人設事那其實就是我們在明年的12月25號的時候在設我覺得大家又不會覺得說你看就是蔣萬安或是李四川 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4159.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4188.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那如果說怕外界有這個疑慮的話我就覺得說好那如果要設三個那就設三個那等到這一個明年的12月15號跟新的那個縣市跟新的直轄市市長一起上任啦我覺得這樣子大家的意見可能會比較少一點謝謝好謝謝昆城委員的提醒這個我做一下說明56條的部分如果做修正動議的話文字會再做調整啦因為現在就是也不是說只是增加直轄市的副市長嘛縣市我們也同意大家兩個人這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4192.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4220.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
會 可以 沒關係剛剛這個 美惠委員有講嘉義的部分對不對所以我們講縣市的部分也都會變成兩人那既然變成兩人其實就沒有所謂的人口條款啦所以這個到時候文字會再做調整跟修正這我跟大家做一下報告那麼日出條款的部分容我再次說明啦就總要有理由嘛比如說我們上次討論33條這個性別保障名額它之所以要拉到2030年的上路是因為你的三席三席等等的一個選區它其實牽涉政黨的布局嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4220.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4235.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那麼政黨的布局本來就有人才拔佐那是需要時間培養的嘛所以你馬上上路他必然會造成衝擊所以那個原因跟結果是很清楚的那同樣我們今天去講副市長的部分也是一樣嘛是因為財政收支劃分法嘛所以你如果延到比如說2026 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4236.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4263.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
甚至更久之後那當然你這兩年來講其實就會有問題嘛不好意思打斷一下下就好沒關係沒關係在整個提案說明裡面完全沒有提到那個才化法啊整個說明裡面都是講人口欸根本沒有提到才化法啊才化法是後來你自己講的啊我看提案說明裡面根本就根本沒有提到沒有提到才化法這件事情啊好還有誰要講 誰要補充嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4267.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4269.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
你一直把時間讓出去好 請張宏祿委員我覺得我們在修這個法知識體大剛剛大家講過的我都不再重複了 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4281.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4305.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
不過你用一個直轄市或是縣市你要增加一個副市長或副縣長我認為總要有一個理由啦我們以前的縣型條文還有說人口在250萬以上得增設那你現在不管如何你直轄市就是三個也不管如何你縣市就是兩個我覺得這裡面完全沒有標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4307.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4316.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
你也沒有依人口也沒有依面積我覺得這個齁我們在訂法律齁我覺得要對得起全台灣的人我 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4319.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4336.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
不要只明縣市啦 有的縣市連十萬人都沒超過你就設兩個副縣長他事情有那麼多嗎你去看我們很多大企業他有設一堆副董事長嗎他們人家企業的營運也是都很好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4337.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4366.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
對不對 我覺得我們在這個不能夠齊頭式的一個平等一個去做你很多縣市你人口沒有超過蔣俊藍你才幾萬人你也兩個我覺得這個 我坦白講 我在立這個法我會覺得愧對我們立法委員的職責啦你全部都是兩個這個我覺得沒有一套標準在這個大家要思考一下那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4370.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4388.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那再來你說日出條款或什麼我個人真的覺得啦也都不用吵了啦你就下一屆或下下屆這一屆齁這一屆齁大家都會覺得為了誰為了誰阿如果我們是立一個法不是為了誰我們為了長治久安那你下屆或下下屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4389.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4418.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那也有一個讓全台灣人知道以後就是這樣他之後他在投票的時候他就會知道說我這次投了你的哪個人你有可能會選誰當副市長或副縣長這也是給人民的一個選舉的一個權利我覺得從這兩方面來思考會比較好不然完全都沒有一個標準就說這樣子就三個然後縣市有兩個我真的覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4419.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4436.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
不應該啦那像剛剛巧惠也有講的啊你說人口400萬的啊跟人口200多啊反正只要是直轄市啊就是這樣我覺得啦大家要再思考一下啦這一點我先這樣子發言謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4438.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4464.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
來 請續政委我想我再次的說明為什麼我們主張要明年1月1號就要提出這樣的一個施行的日期因為大家都知道財化法已經25年沒有修正過了這次剛好財化法修法過後其實有很多的事權需要重新的調整跟分配還有相關的預算會配合會計年度做出調整當然也給縣市政府就是檢討現在的副市長或是副縣長 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4466.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4475.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
業務督導分工的時間所以說為什麼我們主張會從明年的1月1號開始施行就是因為剛好茵茵才化髮的修正以上 謝謝好 謝謝我們還有個人要補充嗎來 請黃介委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4483.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4506.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
好那我希望等一下可不可以让部长说明一下就是针对所有委员的发言因为毕竟他们在行政单位还是要对于这个做出一个说明那我还是再补充一下就是第一个到底才化法跟我们今天修的地方制度法有没有明确的关系这个大家可以看一下今天这个提案说明其实在说明栏里面完全没有提到才化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4508.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4524.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
完全沒有提到才化法所以才化法修完之後才來跟我們說要修地方制度法這本身就非常的牽強再者如果是因為要修才化法才來修地方制度法我們要修的內容應該是事權的分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4525.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4529.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
應該要是業務的需求應該是要讓大家知道說當初因為修了才化法我們就應該一併的拿出來討論到底哪一些業務分配接下來地方要自己執行但是都沒有啊當初的討論沒有現在的討論也沒有現在的討論是什麼我們在討論到底要不要所有的直轄市都有三個副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4548.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4574.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
可不可以如果真的是因為財化法我們就先討論錢跟事情到底怎麼分配解決了之後再來討論這個人第三個副市長要不要有好不好這是第一個再來我剛剛其實我剛剛已經講得很明確這個希望我們等一下部長再多說明就是到底我們的縣市裡面的要有幾個副手是不是需要一個公平客觀的依據像我剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4575.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4602.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
国际上所有的城市很诸多都是利用这个人口数来作为依据或者是说它的土地面积这是一个非常务实的考量嘛你总要有一个客观的依据告诉人民说对你们给我们的纳税钱我们会拿来用来增一个副市长是因为我们这里人口很多所以我们需要有更多的一个多一个副手来处理这一块或者是说因为我们这边土地特别大 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4602.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4625.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
跑不完然後需要有更多的一個主管機關來照顧這個土地面積遼闊的問題所以才有這樣的依據去新增一個副市長但是在這個提案說明裡面都沒有看到相關的理由啊所以我至今仍然不知道為什麼在台灣的所有的直轄市都必須要有三個副市長理由是什麼看不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4627.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4642.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以在我們 我們才會合理的懷疑是因人涉事嘛如果你們覺得不是因人涉事要給我們一個理由啊到底為什麼要拿人民的納稅權去多養一個副市長然後沒有告訴我為什麼我要放這個位子我要多徵涉這個官位 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4644.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4659.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
難道不是為了蔣萬安嗎我們看起來就是啊如果不是的話要講清楚嘛那如果真的不是最後我就是講日出條款嘛怎麼會是明年1月1號開始實施呢要也是明年底12月25號新的一屆才開始啊這就是最公平不會有涉及事務的問題嘛所以以上是不是可以先請我們部長來跟我們說明一下就是這個依據到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4669.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4689.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
人口數好不好如果不用人口數用什麼當作標準比較好再來多養一個副市長要多少錢這個要不要也跟大家說明一下可以嗎 謝謝好 謝謝在那個部會說明之前我一定要再補充說明一下我一定要再補充一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4692.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4711.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
反正我看到底什麼時候要日出確定是沒有共識嘛當然雙方各執己見再講下去也沒有結果啦反正各自有留下紀錄嘛我們就是認為要配合事權來做調整嘛對不對好不好然後我說明一下業務的部分啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4712.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4733.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
其實在各個地方政治的實踐上面副縣長或副市長不管是直轄市或縣市他的業務基本上就是督導各局處那第二個是做跨局處的政策協調那我講嘛才會把修正通過各局處的業務會增加所以我們希望多一點人手處理這件事剛剛有很多委員有講比如說人口的部分大家可能略有不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4734.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4760.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
可是我稍微查了一下不管是因為人口或是面積其實在局處的數量大家都是盡量基本上都是滿編的狀態啦就是即便像也許是苗園也許是金門也都是接近20個局處市啦我如果沒有了解錯我剛查了一下都是超過20個局處市嘛你現在變直轄市大概是30個局處市嘛30幾個局處市嘛那30幾個局處市如果是三個副市長對不對就一個人督導大概10個左右嘛然後並且進行橫向協調嘛那你縣市大概也就20個左右其實就是兩個副縣長 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4761.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4787.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我覺得大家去查一下是從這樣子的一個角度來做切入一樣我們就留下記錄好 大家說明那我們請行政機關做一下補充除了剛剛委員那些疑問之外另外一個我想特別請那個那部分說明一下或者人事總署說明一下有關於副秘書長的部分因為我剛剛看一下現在的條文好像沒有特別去講副秘書長那可是實際上各個縣市政府也好 直轄市政府好像也有副秘書長所以說這個東西的實踐是實踐是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4790.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4813.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
好 是不是說明一下 好不好好 好 全序部 反正就可以相關說明我們就一併處理好不好 謝謝好 謝謝召委 謝謝各位委員的關心我想根據剛剛幾位委員的發言我做一下總結的部分就是有關直轄市縣市副首長要增設一名副縣長或副市長的部分大概是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4813.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4834.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這個提案委員大概有許巧欣委員、李燕秀委員、陳玉珍委員跟邱振軍委員那現在加了臨時提案的修正條文是陳超明委員那我先跟大家報告一下目前我們現行的這個法律裡面所提到地方制度法是按照人口的比例來設縣市的副縣市長那如果按照這個現在提案的影響的話就是在直轄市裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4842.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4857.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
桃園市台南市可以增加一位副市長這就是那個李燕秀委員的這個版本那台北市是維持三位副市長但是呢副市長大部分應該啦目前為止全部都是政治任命也就是都是政務副市長那有關全國的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4860.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4872.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
也就是如果按照陳玉珍委員的版本的話全國是增加了16位副縣長那李燕秀版本的話呢全國是增加7位副縣長那這些包括彰化縣、屏東縣、新竹縣、苗栗縣、嘉義縣、南投縣或者是邱振軍委員版本的話是10位副縣長因為他有加入這個土地面積 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4883.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4906.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
宜蘭縣、新竹縣、苗栗縣、彰化縣、南投縣、雲林縣、嘉義縣、屏東縣、台東縣跟花蓮縣那這個部分呢提供給各位參考那目前這個包括日本或者是韓國的案例的話他們還是以人口為準那也沒有錯到目前為止我們現在的現行條文裡面呢是以人口來做這個主要的一個判刑的這個標準決刑的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4909.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4927.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那最主要還是因為各縣市的不管市長或是縣長他們都是民選我們在民選的時候的選票還是要以當地的社級的戶籍為主而不是流動人口所以這也是另外一個在判刑標準上面比較可以相對性的提供一個客觀的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4928.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4949.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那再來就是剛剛苗栗縣的陳超明委員所提的社副秘書長的部分那有關於社秘書長是幾個執政的部分呢我就請這個不管是人事行政總署或是權序部來做說明那陳超明委員所提到的社這個副秘書長一人看起來應該是政務任命 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4954.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4974.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我們現在的地方制度上面有關人口的部分在每個縣市政府大家都知道會有一個叫參議參議他設在那個地方通常都是縣市長在調節人事所需也就是說如果他的高階文官不管他是事務或者是政務官有出現狀況的話都會移到參議職 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4977.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4988.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那如果說現在就加設一個副秘書長的話呢參議職可能就會被取消那同時呢在一般就非直轄市的這些縣市的部分呢所提到的副秘書長的職等呢通常都是11職等而不是12職等那所以以上幾個縣型的這各位委員在討論的部分呢提供給大家參考那同時剛剛黃姐委員提到說增設一個副市長要多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5003.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5030.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
只有副市長一人一個人沒有其他的秘書我們的涉算大概是700萬元那如果是非直轄市的話涉算大概是500萬元以上其他各個單位有沒有要做補充的來全序部有在嗎來那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5032.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5050.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
部長有請你補充說明嗎對啊我的意思是說你找他原因是什麼副秘書長現在寫在法條裡面看起來就是變成是事務任用嘛所以就變成跟權序有關係是這個意思嗎我再釐清一下不好意思根據委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5053.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5075.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
現在有關直轄市副秘書長的規定是在地方行政機關準則裡面規定不是在地方行政機關準則是在準則裡面規定那目前的規定是直轄市原則上是兩位副秘書長如果250萬以上三位副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5076.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5095.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
但是縣市的部分因為牽涉到現在秘書長是十二指等然後這個政府任用的處長是十二等常務是十一等中間好像並沒有位置了這個部分是不是請全局部來做說明好 局部專委有請前面麥克風 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5114.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5127.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
目前依照內政部訂定的那個地方行政機關組織準則那第十條規定之下是秘書長一人那副秘書長是兩人那依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5131.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5158.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
第十四條的規定縣市政府是自秘書長一人沒有這部分沒有自秘副秘書長那列等的部分那列等的部分直轄市政府目前的秘書長是列十三到十四等那副秘書長是列十二到十三等那至於縣市政府目前秘書長部分是列十一到十二值等以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5160.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5174.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
對 沒有副秘書長 目前沒有副秘書長來 我們再請蘇小慧委 沒關係我們再討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5176.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5201.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
主席我想跟您確認一下因為畢竟您也是國民黨的委員我想確認的是今天國民黨的也就是徐宇珍委員領銜其實也有主席嘛領銜提出的修正動議這個版本因為剛剛你在回答李昆城委員的時候你好像是說56裡面的人口在125萬那邊會拿掉是不是那整段拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5202.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5213.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以我想確認一下所以國民黨委員今天提出修正條文的版本如果通過的話也就是說你們提案的真正的意旨你們的本意就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5214.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5238.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
直轄市就是三個副市長其他縣市就是兩個副縣長不分任何大小不分人口不分面積沒有任何指標就是反正直轄市就是三個縣市就是兩個也沒有說如果我超過哪一個指標之後我就可以得增什麼之類的確定嗎對 目前的方向是這樣來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5240.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5254.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
不曉得你們的理由是什麼,也可以讓我們參考一下嗎?就是台灣現實都變大,是這個意思嗎?還是怎麼樣?我們也可以參考一下嘛我們先請徐議貞委員,然後李坤貞委員,然後陳少平委員,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5254.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5273.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我想剛剛巧惠委員提到的這個部分就是說縣市沒有依人口數來去決定他的縣市長副市長或副縣長其實這個我覺得也很好來說明就是我們的縣市長有因為他的大小這個人口數薪水有所不同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5274.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5302.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
薪水應該都一樣吧對啊 代表說他們其實要負責的事權跟他們做的責任跟他們需要負擔的所有的業務其實是一樣的所以縣市長的薪水才會是一樣嘛所以為什麼到這個地方的時候又這樣不行了所以我覺得針對這個部分呢我們應該來去把全國統一的方式那我們就希望是直轄市的部分就是三個這個副市長那當然大家現在一直在講說台北市因為為了台北市休台北市本來就三個副市長啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5304.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5328.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
不是嗎所以再來就是說因為縣市的部分希望剛剛美惠委員也特別提到我們嘉義市比較小難道就沒有嗎有就嘉義市也會多一個副市長我們覺得應該是全國一致這樣比較公平謝謝好 謝謝主席委員之間當然沒有什麼辯論不過因為剛剛宇甄委員在說徐委員說的是說人口不是重點所有縣市應該齊平可是今天修正動議的說明欄全部都在講人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5330.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5349.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
全部都在講人口啊所以我們才會有這個問題跟人口有關的容我補充說明你知道嗎不好意思喔我等我一下好不好人口的部分是這樣啦就大家其實共同要面對一件事情嘛就是說台灣現在少子女化的狀況是不可逆嘛你如果說過去用人口會準則那接下來幾年的時候你可能會遇到 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5350.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5379.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
是地方在財化法修正之後市權增加業務增加但是因為人口減少然後反而副市長要減少的一個狀況是不是會有這樣子的一個問題呢那雖然說人口減少確實是一個事實如果堅持要以人口為比照標準那也是一套標準沒有錯但是當人口超高齡化然後今年勞動力不足的時候它難道不是另外一種治理的困難嗎對不對所以我覺得我覺得這就大家意見不一樣了但我們就各自發表留下紀錄就好我也想做一個補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5379.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5394.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我的意見要把它表出來因為我們是經過這樣對話我的意見是說如果你今天國民黨真的要提出這種版本我還不如覺得你原來的就是有加上那個但說後面有再加上人口指標可以增減的還比較有道理一點你增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5396.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5416.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
增加副縣長副市長是一件事情但得條挪這是另外一件事情那我是覺得原來之前的版本有條挪的還反而比較好一點謝謝我們還是讓它順序好不好坤城委員 超平委員然後剛剛鴻路委員嘛 好不好好 然後柏毅委員我再提一下這個第55條55條的提案的說明裡面根本沒有提到這個財化法然後講到財化法我真的是很鬼八道會因為我是財政委員會的人當初財化法是怎麼出去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5425.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5454.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
一分鐘就出去耶我們就說你程旭智你不要送出去我們是不是先討論一下說財務法如果送出去之前各個縣市政府的這個事權要怎麼去做處理嘛完全沒有討論啊所以你就是一分鐘之後就把財務法送出去了沒有討論說各縣市政府的事權如何因為你財務法做調整那你現在丟出來這個版本就說因為我們這個財務法通過了所以我們要增加副市長這沒有道理嘛說不通嘛因為剛開始在我們財政委員會討論的時候根本就沒有提到說財務法通過之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5455.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5480.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
然後各個地方政府那他們的這個市權要怎麼做調整完全沒有嘛更換說雲南裡面也沒有嘛所以我是覺得說不要用這個採訪法來包裝就是說這個台北市不管是蔣灣或是李四川的這個問題那如果說要渡這個幼幼之口我覺得啦那就是把這個時間調到這個明年12月25號之後跟著新的這個市長一起商量我覺得爭議就會比較小一點啦好 謝謝坤城委員我們請陳昭明委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5482.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5500.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
剛剛一聽,我覺得很意外,我們城鄉差距太大,六都邊緣的警察分級長,那官選比我們非六都最主要的警察級官選還要大,難怪大家都往那邊在升。 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5501.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5518.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
這第一點不公平現在部長也在這邊仔細聽啦我以前提這個問題警政使說你不要提我們人要升官那為了警政和解的關係好像聽你的但是始終非常不公平我先點出這一點第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5521.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5544.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
剛剛我又聽到六都都有兩個副秘書長但是我聽部長又跟我講了一句話如果我們會六都多了一個副秘書長參議就會被取消到我不知道這對你會帶來你也了解參議的作用那多一個副秘書長其實人才最重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5545.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5565.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
薪水不是最重要薪水是給大家不是他講的那個薪資的出息的時候我們是要選做能力的人啊你自己說六都就有兩個副秘書長那我們會六都的宣誓更可憐喔我們角色大家都一樣所以多一個副秘書長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5567.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5579.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
應該要予以同意啦,不是人口選舉多就全部往那邊跑啦我希望大家要體諒這點,各位也希望了解這點城鄉的差距不然會越來越大 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5584.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5587.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
國民黨今天的修正動議我要講難聽一點真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5606.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5610.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
遮遮掩掩最後一段就要115年11月1號實施啦你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5617.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5640.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
台北市現在人口低於250萬內政部也不會要求說台北市你今天三個副市長要改成兩個副市長啊到明年的1月1號台北市人口還是少於250萬的話請問內政部會要求台北市三個副市長改成兩個副市長嗎也是不會啊除非有人辭職嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5641.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5662.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
除非有人辭職你才不能補嘛所以你又把這個補進來又把這個條文要寫上來的意思是要說什麼是要說就是為了蔣萬安我們還是表達我們不要因人設事來討論當然後面還有這個縣市的不分人口要增加成兩個副縣長這個我覺得這個更要討論啦謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5673.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5691.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我還是要提醒各位委員一下我們再修一個法現在剛剛大家講的理由什麼的其實一個法要長久去運作我們不是說現在的事情怎麼樣怎麼樣這個法一修可能你要有20年30年50年去試用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5693.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5720.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那你不可能今年修了然後說隔了一兩年又來改所以我還是覺得就是說還是要有一個標準啦一個面積或是一個人口啦以前的舊有的條文它就是以人口而且人口其實是全世界大部分設置副首長的一個最基本的一個標準我覺得這個標準要在啦還要提醒大家不然 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5721.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5737.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我必須在這邊講身為新北市的立法委員這個如果照你們的條文通過哇 你是欺負我們新北市啊必須要 你會要承擔這個後果喔你會欺負我們新北市喔因為你們有一個標準在 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5739.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5756.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
你說有像以前舊法250萬以上會可以偵測或什麼的其實全世界你去看全世界的這個復首的這個條文大概都有這些規定大概都有你去看東京都1000多萬人口那他就沒個標準嗎如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5758.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5784.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
以我們現在這樣子來講五萬的五萬以下的也是兩個兩百五十萬三百萬也是兩個我記得彰化也是快一百多萬嘛他也是兩個未來也是兩個不是啦彰化你要通過他也是兩個啊那你人很少的也是兩個啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5785.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5810.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我覺得這點要思考喔 對不對那個一個和尚挑水喝 三個和尚沒水喝那你一直設更多 當然也是啊照這樣來講好像是可以做得很好啊可是真的是這樣嗎我再強調一次 很多的不是人多就一定可以辦得好事情但我覺得那個標準我們一定要在啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5810.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5833.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
不要以後人家來看我們修法來罵我們這一屆的內政委員說你一點標準都沒有然後就這樣我擔心的只有這個我常說我們的立法要讓人家可以檢視所以我覺得大家再思考一下我覺得還有時間可以討論大家再思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5834.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5860.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
好 謝謝我看大家發言都差不多然後顯然你要在今天達成共識我感覺是蠻困難的啦那我們還有委員要發言嗎還是我們往下走往下走好了好不好我是建議55 56啦我們就是保留啦就送政黨協商來處理啦好不好這樣子我們也今天也早一點可以把其他的條件因為其他的條件其實進度是比較好比較有機會在委員會討論的時候可以達成共識我爭取一下大家意見可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5861.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5883.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
好那我們這兩條我們就保留修正東西的部分可以嗎我們也要版本做精簡嘛那剛剛我覺得很多委員提議都非常好那其實我還是蠻希望如果它可以變成具體版譬如說你們如果很堅持要用人口為標準那怎麼樣算出有一套好的標準也可以在協商的過程中變成版本提進來大家來做討論我想這也都是可以解決事情的方法好不好那我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5885.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5897.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
55條的部分就把本席的修正動議 56條的部分就是本席跟陳昌明委員的修正動議 我們就送政黨協商那61條的部分61條 好 現在有修正動議 沒關係 本來我們應該是不處理但我講嘛 我說盡量都保持開放那今天有 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5911.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5919.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這個張宏祿委員提修正動議這邊請宏祿委員先做一下說明好不好好 可以 李昆城委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5922.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5950.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
謝謝主席謝謝這個紅樓召委這個我因為我本來的我提案是在第78條那第78條就是說那後來我有跟這個內政部討論過因為我的這個是涉及到說風景的問題就是說你這個陰暗停止的話要不要給薪水然後這個內政部是建議說然後再修正61條那61條是有關於這個風景這部分如果是放在這邊的話這個體力上會更好那所以我就接受這個內政部的這個建議所以我把我的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5951.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5964.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
本來78條的這一個條文修正的條文我把它改成第61條的這個修正動議放在這邊那一樣內容是一樣就是說你如果是違反這個公職人員選報法 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5968.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5991.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
117條第一項的規定停職的期間呢不得發給新級然後呢如果按照這個相關規定的復職之後呢予以補發然後跟我在這個78條的這個修正內容其實是大致是相同的只是說按照這個體力上我把它放在61條我關於這個鳳級的部分那這個一樣就是說如果陰暗這個一審這個陰暗停職的話我們就不發給鳳級然後復職之後再補發那以上說明好謝謝李崑禎委員的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5997.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5999.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我們各位有想法嗎?我先問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6002.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6028.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我有一個小問題啦我基本上方向我是贊成的但因為我們現在講的是說他如果按規定復職之後予以補發那很多時候因為是官司嘛打官司嘛打官司因為有狀況所以停職然後會不會啦就是說這個官司打完之後他的任期其實已經認滿了那如果是這樣子的一個情況之下的話要怎麼辦所以我們是不是請部會做一下說明我剛剛的問題有聽懂嗎有討論過好那請做一下說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6033.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6062.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
跟各位人報告如果是在官司是在他任期之後的話就沒有付值的問題因為他無職可復所以就沒有所謂這個不發的問題就說依照這條文是付值但是他沒有付值要要付值的情況他如果已經過了就無職可復了所以依照依照對依照這條文就是不發了 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6063.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6076.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
對 可是如果他最後 他是在任期中被我的意思就是說 他在任期中捲入了官司嘛但如果官司 因為有官司所以他停職嘛或是什麼 可是如果官司最後證明他是清白的話那這樣不是很奇怪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6078.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6105.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
因為他已經過了他的任期已經無職可復如果依照這條文是說他任期之內副職的話當然可以補發但是已經過他任期的時候他依照這他就沒有副職的問題我大概了解你的意思也就是說因為他停職嘛所以他沒有工作當然就沒有薪水的問題好那如果是停職副職的部分比如在任期內任期內對任期內的話依規定是可以這個補發的對啊可是問題是這樣他如果比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6106.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6122.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
在第一年然後他捲入了官司然後被停職停職了兩年好了然後在第四年的時候他復職對不對那前兩年呢是給他還是不給他是是是要給對要補跑可是如果你照這樣的邏輯的話他如果前三年後來都被停職但是到第五年也就是他卸任之後才復職 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6123.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6149.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
你的邏輯不就不一致了嗎?卸任之後他就沒有...我的意思是說他沒有職可以...因為你如果講說他沒有職可以付所以他因為他停職所以沒有工作沒有工作不給他薪水所以不允許補發嘛對不對你的意思是這樣可是你如果任期中他就停職了這兩年他也是沒有在工作嘛因為是停職嘛可是因為他剛好是在任期結束前法律就還他清白你就付職然後你前兩年還可以補發那不會變成說有些人可以補有些人不能補這樣不一致的狀況嗎?我今天想問的是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6151.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6171.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
是不是我們討論一下依照這個條文基本上是有復職的情況之下如果他已經卸任了其實他那個已經無職可復了啦依照這條文可是對於如果無罪被判定無罪的話那他又不能復他當然已經過那個復職的期限然後又不能補發這樣對他來說也不公平啊我們指的是無罪的一個狀況啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6175.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6203.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
沒關係我們討論一下好不好請吳世偉我想問一下因為這也是一個值得討論的問題就是說他還他清白以後即便他已經不在那個位置上但是那我想一下就過去有沒有因為這是地方制度法處理的是首長地方首長過去有沒有對於譬如說縣市立委有沒有因為也是類似什麼樣涉案的狀況然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6205.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6216.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
沒有領薪水然後最後官司平反了然後他已經卸了立委的身份有沒有其他的類別的公職人員可以參照 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6219.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6245.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
有沒有任何可以參照的如果沒有的話有可以參照當然要看一下過去的法律的參照的狀況那如果沒有的話這個問題我們是可以好好來想一下最後恢復他的清白了對啊 因為最後恢復清白我覺得就是標準要一致不能跟任期有交錯的問題因為有的官司有時候拖得比較久所以這個可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6248.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6255.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
剛剛吳委員有提到的部分民意代表的部分大概就沒有所謂的副職的問題他就是沒有就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6262.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6283.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
剛剛我們民政司長的解釋的部分是按照人事行政總署的函式來辦理的所以是不是請人事行政總署來解釋一下有關於這個地方首長如果有這個副職之後還在任期內一定補發但是過了任期的時候就不補發這個部分是不是可以請他來做一下說明好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6286.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6289.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
好 魯夫先生總副 麻煩謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6303.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6325.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
委員會各位先生大家好有關那個地方民選首長的部分他那個停職期間他目前的一規定是參照那個公務人員的規定他目前是發給半奉的那公務員規定是因為說他有復職之後他可以補發半奉那目前民選地方首長部分如同剛剛內政部的說法就是說目前是無職可復的目前在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6326.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6350.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
在現行的規範中我們一般就參照全區部跟內政部的一個處理方式去做說明那目前行政院目前針對停職期間是有停發半奉的不過你剛講的半奉我記得高雄安市長被停職我們內政部長是說連半奉都沒有喔對啊就是所以嘛是內政部有裁量的嘛對吧不是就是給半奉吧是沒有錯跟我們報告一下就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6357.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6357.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這是包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6365.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6387.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
所以說現在的狀況按照剛剛的說明其實是政務選出來就民選首長啦其實按照有個規定是可以比照事務政務人員嘛就是說停職的時候領半封但有財長權我覺得這個彈性也未免太大了一點所以我還蠻認同這一條要法制化處理但是我覺得我們還是回到剛剛那個問題嘛就是說官司的長短不是一般人可以控制的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6388.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6415.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
但是我覺得最後的結果不管他是復職或者是任期過了標準要一致我們怎麼樣在立法基礎上去完成這件事情啊我請教一下大家的意見啊往這個方向去做再調整會不會完善一點這樣應該是如果最後是無罪我覺得應該都要補罰當然如果他有罪當然把他收到這個懲罰是應該但是如果是無罪的話卻因為有沒有在任期內復職而決定補不補罰其實這樣好像不符合這個相關的公平的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6426.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6441.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
來 請張宏祿委員我覺得啦 其實這一條大家的方向都一樣啦我覺得請內政部你們看法條要怎麼修 如何補足這一塊我們再來就處理好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6446.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6473.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
其實趙偉提出的這個問題按照邏輯來看的話其實應該就是說你只要是無罪薪水就是要給因為今天是說因為無職可賦所以不補方我覺得這邊可能看市民面身部這邊再做個修正如果方向我們方向都一致就是說因為你今天只有一審有罪被停職我們就是因為之前是有裁量的我們現在說不要裁量我們就法治的話我們就是都停薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6474.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6495.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
然後呢那如果說你這一個一旦司法還你清白的話那是不是薪水要補發那就是如果是在任的時候大家好像覺得比較沒什麼問題那現在就是說你已經卸任有時候官司如果拖了比較久你卸任了那要不要補發啦這個我是持開放啦那就看那個各委員的意見是怎麼樣然後內政部要怎麼做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6496.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6520.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
好 謝謝昆城委員這樣子 我請教一下行政機關今天有沒有辦法有明確的條文如果有困難 那可能我們就要保留處理嘛好 我們請行政機關說明一下如果委員有共識說如果改判我覺得確定要補發的話是不是在李昆城委員的修正動力裡面的最後第二行 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6521.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6523.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
你這樣子寫我總覺得好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6548.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6561.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我知道啦,所以我才是說你們不要臨時問,我覺得這樣感覺怪怪的你們應該要想一下,然後看怎樣再處理這個法令我覺得不能我們這樣隨便講兩句 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6566.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6583.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為我覺得這個問題很大 我覺得在這個時間共享這樣五六年 我們是不是沒理由因為我們要延長一下風溫我們一定要讓人穿白 但是真的我一個已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6585.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6609.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
聽...聽這啦 你還在那有的沒的想什麼啦不是 我覺得這一條好不容易大家都有共識了只是文字的修正 但你文字修正 我剛他這樣念我覺得怪怪的咧你們要學好對啊 我們先下面 下面一條然後他們先去有時間啊好 我們這一條暫時保留 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6612.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6631.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
欸...78條剛剛我們理論者有意思應該是我改修61條嘛78我們就不處理了好不好好78條不如處理好83條之3上次我們講83條跟原住民有關的部分就是處理83條之7嘛對不對這個應該沒有錯吧那我們就直接進到83條之7我們其他就不處理可以嗎好那我們現在先進行83條之7的討論我們請高清委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6636.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6662.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
好 今天有再修正動議的部分大家參考一下手上的資料好 我們請委員做相關說明 以上好 高清素梅在這邊說明一下財政部按照上一次也就是5月12號的討論之後他們有提供非常正確的一個財政收據讓我知道然後我們來看一下83條之七直轄市設算補助給三地原住民區的財源 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6664.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6674.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
感謝財政部提供的補充資料但是呢我們看一下根據最新的更新新北市的烏來區的預算減少金額從6784萬更正為7268萬桃園復興區有減少將近3億縮小到1.38億台中的和平區減少的金額從2.59億修正為1.80億 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6695.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6702.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這三個區大概都沒有什麼大的落差但是我們看一下高雄市的茂林區它的預算減少的金額從2456萬擴大為2.01億 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6712.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6728.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
令人非常震驚的是高雄市原住民的三個區這三個區也就是茂林區、桃園區、南下區這三個區他們現在的差額大概相近增加將近11億 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6730.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6757.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我們可以看到這些數據的差異反映出高雄市政府對原住民的三個區公所明顯非常的忽視還有忽略令人難以接受的是高雄市政府竟然還公開的宣稱他們對這三個區的原住民區提供1.6億元的預算支持但是他們卻完全迴避了從原鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6760.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6771.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
剝奪了將近11億元的事實我覺得這樣的行為不僅僅是對法律精神的踐踏更是對原住民族基本權益的漠視另外我們從稅入和稅出來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6774.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6793.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
新北市、桃園市、台中市的預算跟改制前相比已經差不多接近了,甚至有超越之勢可是高雄市的三個原住民區,不論是他的稅入還是稅出,遠遠低於改制前的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6794.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6796.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我認為這樣子的財政分配顯示高雄市政府在原住民三個區的資源分配上是非常嚴重的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6806.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6825.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我們設計這些制度的目的就是希望直轄市和山地區能夠進行充分的協調和合作來確保原住民地區能夠享有跟其他地域平等的發展機會原住民的基礎建設也好 教育也好 醫療也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6826.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6846.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
都大幅的削減這直接影響到了我們族人的基本生活權益我認為這樣的不公平的預算分配必須要立刻修正而對這些不公正的財政安排我們必須要在今天徹查還有修正來確保原住民區能夠獲得應該要有的資源跟發展的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6850.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6865.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我想這不僅僅是保護原住民的基本權益更是捍衛法律跟正義的責任我特別要講一下高雄市政府我們來看一下我們今天不管是不是修正動議的條文在原條文他就講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6869.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6881.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
三地原住民區在實施自治所需的財源由直轄市依照下列因素予以設算補助並且應該要維持改制前各該三地商統籌分配財源的水準我們可以看到開張民意的第一項就要求直轄市的政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6895.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6922.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
應該要維持改制前各個三地區的統籌分配財源的分配但是非常的遺憾高雄市政府完全無視於法律高雄市的議員也沒有非常的用功認真的來了解法條我們看到高雄市政府真的從99年到現在104年相比將近少了11億 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6924.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6931.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這十一億恰恰反映在茂林區桃園區南下區的基礎建設我覺得這是非常不公平的所以我希望今天的在場委員們能夠依照我們今天的 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6942.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6963.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
本席今天的再修正动议这个部分也是跟财政部讨论好了财政部也跟新北市政府、台湾市政府、高雄市政府、台中市政府还有我们整个原乡的五个区这个资料都在这里都已经讨论过了所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6964.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6972.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我今天再提的再修正動議版本是大家經過大家討論以後大家同意通過的以上謝謝好謝謝這內83條是7各位委員還有意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6980.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7004.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
來 請盧憲宜委員然後待會吳立豪委員好 就是針對我們這六個區就是十一年來他們的額額預算大幅降低又不能舉債然後稅捐的營運又不能參與分配然後又沒有依照他的薪請的物價來調整所以他遠遠落後於當初改制前的水準所以我們按照他的修正原條五的修正就是說希望能夠改制 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7006.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7027.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
改之前各3D箱前三年的總預算說出平均數那後來看到這個修正動議我看到明天的版本是說要扣除現行中央或直轄市額外補助的平均數所以我想知道說你扣除了以後跟之前的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7030.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7044.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
會增加多少還是只有增加一點點這樣的話修改這個法條有什麼具體的建議嗎因為這樣子的話看不出來它到底會不會真正的幫助我們現在六個直轄市的3D區所以以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7048.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7066.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
謝謝 請吳立浩委員好 謝謝主席關於地治法第83條之7那大家都很關心特別是原住民委員而且是關心很久了為什麼因為我們原住民鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7068.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7095.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
跟著改制為直轄市之後變園區那他一度失去公法人地位引起嘩然終於謝謝之前的立委們在2014年把園區恢復了跟一般的園鄉一樣恢復他的公法人地位但是當時有一個嚴重的疏漏就是忘了修回財政自治 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7097.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7105.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
所以使得這11年就是所有的園區非常的辛苦那因為他們的稅客驟降為零就變成要依賴市政府的補助所以這個部分很高興今天我們終於能夠共同的來修正這一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7116.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7130.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那第二個我要特別強調因為我去年在財政委員會有特別的請財政部要邀請各直轄市政府跟原住民區要來開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7131.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7150.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那就是討論說我們要來怎麼修那所以呢我特別把這項意見就是把改字前各3D箱統籌分配的裁員水準喔把它寫進到我們第83條之7的第一項就是主文裡面那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7152.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7172.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這個會變成是固定不會變動的金額那也是我們做財政分配要遵守的前提所以我特別把它放在主文就是增加說並不得低於直轄市改制前各該山地鄉前三年度總預算稅出平均數 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7173.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7200.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
扣除中央或直轄市額外補助之平均數因為必須要把補助款要把它分別要拿掉要這樣子算那它的這個水準才不會喪失那所以特別做這樣的一個說明那至於後面就是確立這個原則放在主文那就是第一條就是自治事項然後呢中央統 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7201.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7225.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
投分配稅款然后再放其他因素所以在中央统筹分配税款就是写说直辖市的中央统筹分配税款实际分配金额高于通知分配数直辖市应于次一年度按其增加比例增加对该山地原住民区之补助做以上的说明谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7231.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7253.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好這個文字看了大家頭腦都冒煙了這個我的了解沒有錯的話其實不管是高金委員的再修正動議或民進黨吳立華委員這邊修正動議其實大概概念其實還蠻其實是一樣的對不對概念是差不多啦但是呢招我要補充的是我的再修正動議是財政部已經是都討論過的了 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7254.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7259.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
就是按照我的這個再修正動議版本而且呢他也跟這個各縣市政府、直轄市政府還有我們區公所的代表這個資料就在我這裡都已經談好了所以呢其實吳立華委員的版本也差不多了而且他是今天提出來的嘛那我的再修正動議是在這個12號的時候已經提了跟他修正動議版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7277.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7284.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
所以我覺得大家對原住民的關心都是一樣的大家就是希望能夠來解決整個直轄市五個原住民區另外我要談的就是說其實我一直在強調的83條之七在103年的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7294.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7314.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我就是因為看到這樣子的狀況所以我們在第83條之一的第一項我們就要求地方政府必須要維持改制前各該三地統籌分配財源的水準加了這一句 可是待會財政單位順便解釋一下我們今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7318.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7346.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
不守法的是高雄市政府欺負三個人鄉的是高雄市政府我今天提了這個在修正動議版本我原本是在第四項裡面我希望我希望中央財政部財主單位你們能夠有所依據要求地方政府必須依法辦理那你們說這個文字不能夠放在裡面請問你有什麼方法兩件事情請您回答一下謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7348.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7349.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
主席 各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7367.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7378.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我想今天在座的原住原民區的委員對這個原民區的財源都相當的關注那相當關注這個我們可以理解那 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7380.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7401.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
上一次會議主席有做一個決議要我們財政部邀集相關的機關再來研商我們邀集內政部 原民會 還有處級總署還有四個直轄市 還有六個原民區的公所來開會討論之後 大家獲置共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7409.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7422.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那基本上就是大概跟高金委員剛才所提到的在修正動議的文字是一樣的那當然這是第一點報告那第二點就是關於這個吳委員提的這個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7433.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7450.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
他會涉及到因為他把那個考量的因素把他直接放到序文裡面去就會涉及到這個各地方地方政府的裁員的分配的問題可能還要再協商還要再協商因為因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7452.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7476.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
就是因為他是放在序文裡面就表示說他一定要增加那我們是放在後面是當作考量的因素我知道那個市長你沒有回答我的問題我是說一百零三年的時候第八十三條之七你看到沒有第一項三地原住民區實施自治所需的財源由直轄市依照下列因素予以設算補助並 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7478.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7493.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
應該維持改制前各該三地鄉統籌分配財源水準就已經講得很清楚了可是呢我們看一下為什麼今天我們還要在這裡跟你談這件事情就是高雄市政府短編了11億 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7495.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7500.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
他跟99年度跟104年我告訴你一下茂林區從2億9千6百73萬2千元減少到2億1千189萬他減少了9千多萬高雄市桃園區從原本的5億9千然後直到1億減少了4億耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7516.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7517.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
然後那麽下呢 他本來是5億7千多的然後呢 104年只給他1億147萬 減少了4億所以整個高雄市政府已經減少了將近11億呀 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7532.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7550.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
市長我現在要問的是我們今天提的這個再修正動議如果高雄市政府依然不離產我們能有什麼辦法跟委員報告我先在這邊跟各位委員報告兩個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7551.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7555.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
民國98年 我為什麼講98年 因為99年剛好有八八風災所以我們如果是從99年跟114年跟今年來比較的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7570.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7596.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那當然今年當然就是相對來講就是相對來講可能就比99年要低因為那一點有特殊的因素都是因素但是如果我們跟98年來看的話幾乎幾乎每一個直轄市都是增加的都是增加這是第一點報告那第二點第二點就是有關這個100就是剛才提到就是說為什麼那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7600.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7628.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
剛才提到等一下我請署長來說明這個數字來請署長來說明這個數字來市長我們節省時間麻煩你回答我的問題精簡的告訴我說如果高雄市政府不要忘了現在財化法也通過了高雄市政府也增加了預算如果他們未來還是不依法來把我們的錢補足的話你有什麼方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7628.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7652.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
如果你可以講出有什麼方法的話這個83條之7的第4項我就可以按照你們的這個要求然後由直轄市然後不需要你們中央財政部來介入請你告訴我有什麼方法其實這個還是要經過因為這個是地方自治的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7652.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7678.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我了解我們立法委員對他沒辦法啊那我們高雄市議員又沒有那麼強啊所以你的意思是說我要把這些告訴我們所有的南麻夏的鄉親嗎讓我們南麻夏這個高雄三區的鄉親來跟高雄市政府要嗎其實那一天我那個三個原民區高雄三個原民區來他們對這個修正條文他們是贊同的你迴避了我的問題沒關係啦謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7682.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7687.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
他們還是去協商啦好不好好 謝謝我們還是回到條文本身來討論好不好好 吳立豪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7689.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7715.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
對 因為我剛剛聽了這樣的回應之後我其實是還是要堅持一下因為上次在才化法的時候其實我們也是要修啦但是就被丟包那沒有關係這一次在帝制法我是覺得說我們要再謹慎堅持一點因為其實當年修法的時候就是不夠謹慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7716.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7743.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
才會修出說什麼要用前三年改制前三年的平均那我覺得財化法那邊也有疏漏讓稅客突然驟降為零然後什麼前三年的平均又弄得我們整個每一年的經費增加結果永遠停留在改制前三年所以這個地方我還是要再強調一次剛才您自己也有說就是把這個不會變動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7745.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7767.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
把它放在主文那我們要堅持的就是這個我們不要放在下面所以這個部分我還是要堅持就是說希望把剛才我提到的不得低於直轄市改制前各該三地鄉前三年總預算稅出平均數要扣除中央或直轄市額外補助的平均數 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7768.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7779.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我是希望說因為這是會固定不變而且是前提才會有後面的這個部分所以我是堅持說您剛剛也承認了我們就是要爭取這個謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7785.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7797.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
其實剛吳立懷委員講的第二項大家看一下我的再修正動議版本其實有寫啦就是直轄市改制前各該三地向前三年度所以是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7799.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7818.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
總預算稅出平均數 靠除上級政府額外補助的平均數及改制後原個該三地鄉市權 宜由直轄市辦理之經費所以其實文字是一樣的所以我覺得沒有什麼好爭執的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7819.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7820.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
主席不好意思因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7843.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7863.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
對 一樣 但是剛才我們聽得很清楚效果不一樣而且重點是體力 體力也不一樣這樣子血放在哪裡效果不一樣 體力也不一樣我們既然要修了不要再像過去一樣就是沒有把它修好 修完整然後讓大家痛苦十幾年謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7864.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7873.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好 這樣子好了我們開會開到現在也一段時間我們休息五分鐘好 大家上個廁所 緩一緩然後大家協商一下看怎麼處理這件事好不好現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7881.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7907.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
財政來啦 財政來啦你去說明啦趕快啊 要找機會啊不是都講好了嗎財政市長啊市長 你是在那說明一下對啊對啊對啊 為什麼不趕快溝通好還是可以的 還是可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7914.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7914.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7920.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7937.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
他這樣...最近...我再給他講一下啦好啦,我聽一下,他如果...我來...但是我覺得希望不要...定性規定的話,他們就...就不能有...就沒辦法有一個共識可是...但你們先是政府就不願意啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7954.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7954.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
稍微 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7975.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7993.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
你不能地方政府的意見我們就苦了十幾年你用地方政府有意見對 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8005.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8025.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
他開了三次會喔我知道你先用說要給地方政府一個談判好啦,那剛剛你們兩個我們都做一期完結大家的完結完結都沒開,都說完沒開但是剛才林姓林口都已經沒有要改就一直改跑沒有這樣的對,沒怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8028.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8040.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
財政部在幹嘛呢財政部在幹嘛呢財政部在幹嘛呢財政部在幹嘛呢財政部在幹嘛呢財政部在幹嘛呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8059.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8061.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我跟您商量一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8068.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8078.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這個也是財政部去年給我的意見啊我們聽說他應該要讓財政部成立他如果沒有幫財政部成立他會變成實習家學者 因為不安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8089.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8103.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那個差異是在這邊剛剛正式也講了啊放在這邊是固定的放在這邊只想是還有韓系的你不能這樣你不能這樣他說好不容易卸掉出來這樣就沒辦法啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8117.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8128.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
你們原住民已經簽了這樣有沒有60分有啦50分啦就是有這些原民居民才會簽但是我不理解為什麼大家要將就50分的為什麼要這樣大家已經擋過了為什麼這個就這樣誒他們保護住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8145.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8155.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
阿如果我們原民立委都同意阿每次都是 阿都是修的一半一半 哪有這樣的阿你 大家 看新歌 看文件的 社長立委 原住民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8169.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8195.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
你可能沒有看到數據,我給你看一下數據沒有,我在城鎮委員會已經算過很多遍了沒有沒有,他們最新給我的攤看一下以前三個區其實都差不多啦我只是雙雄啦他們現在說服我是希望退而求其次但是我不懂,我不是啦,我們沒有沒有啊,我們見鬼啊沒有啊,沒有啊,沒有差別啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8197.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8208.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
但是這樣沒有解決問題啦你再想起來了不是不是啦對啊我的意思是說不是高經緯不是啦這個差別是在你放在這邊它是固定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8226.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8227.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以你放在這邊? |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8247.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8275.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
她還是有彈性 她不見得要照顧你沒有 你看沒有沒有沒有 你看第一項 妳看第一項那沒有關係那我就在那邊宣布如果大家希望50分 那我就50分沒有50分我們沒有50分我們掌聲都自己我們尊重我們尊重好啦好啦 效果不一樣好 我們不要做50分的我們要做60分的不要 我要120 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8276.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8305.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
喔!對,要做一百歲你那麼多條保留又不差這一條叫他再去你就叫他再去就保留啦沒關西啦,沒關西啦保留啦保留啦就保留沒關西啦要修就一次到位啊那就保留好不好好啦,這樣就保留啦OK吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8306.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8307.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
拜托了 拜保留了 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8308.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8336.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
現在最大的問題就是只有高雄啊三個區都沒有問題啊為什麼要按...因為為了高雄市來保留呢?不要啦,你會...沒有,我不是為了高雄市保留我是說說不合適大家保留跟協商好因為修法,不要...不管是帶一個族群都一樣啦我們要修好 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8338.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8364.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
本來政府已經跟縣市政府已經跟縣市政府說好了已經跟我們區公所的代表都說好了不要這樣啦今天好不容易都已經這樣子了不要這樣啦,我們很鐵定的啦我們一天台灣人一天都被弱勢了好啦好啦,早晚你去跟他講一下啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8366.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8379.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
對啊 大家都知道 你們都很照顧我們人民後來我們要照顧台灣的時候 一定要照顧我們地方政府都投避了 地方政府都投避了 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8388.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8391.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我們還有別條保留嗎沒有 有啦 有這條啦因為這個效果只有50分 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8414.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8427.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我跟你說 區政府我講實在 我很認真你不要說五十萬 五十萬這樣我心肝很緊張區公所都同意縣市區長 城下市政府都派員了怎麼可能會說一半呢沒有五十分的問題沒有啦 沒有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8444.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8444.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8463.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8466.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我們是同事 我們是委員 我們一直尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8487.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8487.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
蝦仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8499.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8503.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
這間餐廳是一間餐廳的中間餐廳。 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8526.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8531.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
有啊,剛剛有一個是都簽名的,所以不是公司簽名的這是陸續學校的 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8558.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8571.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
所以我們才說,如果現在有問題,我們就通告高天堡,我們就通告高天堡,我們就通告高天堡,我們就通告高天堡,我們就通告高天堡,我們就通告 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8591.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8592.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
因為你的狀況你也要 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8607.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8628.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
如果在這邊講這件事,我們是不可能的,我們應該想做一件很大的事,所以你現在亂了很多事情,你亂了很多寶石,很多貨品,那就是你等一下拿來做貨品,你要說出來說,好啦,他們在裡面都接受啦,這個東西你要做貨品,所以你自己在那邊做貨品,你自己要做貨品 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8629.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8630.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
好啦當然啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8662.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8662.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
好好 沒關係好 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8675.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8676.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
他就還沒講好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8700.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8704.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我們都尊重喔,精華補貼我們也尊重喔我以前不怕,以前也... |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8728.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8729.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
好啦好啦謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8762.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8782.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好 報告聯席委員會我們繼續開會進行協商的這個流程這個有關83條之7我們剛剛這個各處協調之後我還是先說明一下就是說其實上一次在我們內政委員會開會的時候我們高經委員就很清楚嘛他來這邊還有我們盧憲宜委員都在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8783.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8798.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那其實那天我們各位內政委員很多司法委員其實也都在現場其實當天就有做出明確的結論就是希望財政部跟相關的主管機關跟我們的原住民及委員做一下清楚的溝通跟說明那這件事基本上也做到了所以有今天的再修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8799.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8823.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
那五六號委員今天來那有些人動議我們是非常希望非常希望因為這個案如果法條上行政機關已經同意那基本上在執行上其實是比較沒有問題的那是不是委員願意成全一下那我們就以委員會審議通過版本再用我們就以委員會通過審議版本大家一起簽字這樣是不是大家都大家的都有照顧到法條也可以處理好我們是不是請五六號委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8823.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8843.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
謝謝主席我很高興今天能夠修到這一條原本我也是在其他的法案跟其他的條文裡面我也有去做處理今天能夠在這邊處理獲得大家一致的意見我也尊重財政部的意見只是說因為我還是有一些些 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8844.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8867.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
第一個就是看到有一些條文也是有被保留那第二個因為我還是想要跟財政部做一些些的確認就是關於體力跟效果的部分那大致上我是沒有意見我會尊重財政部但是既然今天也有其他的條文保留是不是再給我一些空間那請財政部可以跟我來做說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8870.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8876.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
好 不會因為我們這個保留與否就跟大家報告一下嘛我們先請高興委員發言既然剛剛吳委員這樣子說其實呢我還是要再講一遍啦就是我手上現在財政部給我的資料我們可以看到直轄市升格了之後呢我們原鄉有五個鄉變成五個區 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8890.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8911.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
新北市政府桃園市政府台中市政府對於烏來區復興區和平區他們的預算沒有減少多少甚至於還有增加的那麼如果我們今天呢按照現行的條文其實這三個直轄市都沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8913.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8939.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那我們現在真正拿到的這個數據是茂林區跟桃園區跟喇嘛下區是減少了11億所以我們今天如果這個法條出去的話高雄市政府可以依照維持改制前各干三地相同從分配財源的水準這幾個區馬上就可以回到它以前的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8940.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8942.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那為什麼我們大家不再這樣子趕快來討論這三個區讓他把這個11億趕快找回來而至於吳麗華所想要的那個要增加的部分您可以在財政委員會裡面去提 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8956.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8980.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那地治法裡面其實講得很清楚所以如果吳麗華您可以幫個忙的話我們幫三個桃園高雄市的三個區趕快先找回這十一億來然後讓大家可以先行上路這一次的地治法我們已經討論了那麼久了我希望呢 第八十 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8981.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9008.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
三條之七今天可以在內政委員會跟司法委員會的委員支持之下讓他順利的通過當然啦要保留我也沒有多大的意見啦但是我只是覺得保留下去很可惜好嗎 以上謝謝好我還是先問一下我們內政委員的意見啦因為總之民進黨內政委員會委員有想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9010.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9029.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
好啦 保留好啦 那就一分鐘我跟那個盧秀英委員還有幾個原住民立法委員我們是希望今天通過嘛我們留下紀錄好不好而且 而且各縣市政府的代表直轄市政府的代表還有區公所的代表也都同意的好 謝謝謝謝主席我講一分鐘就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9032.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9046.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
叔叔我還是要講一最主要的原因是因為今天也有別的條文保留所以希望留一個空間第二我一定要講我就是高雄市茂林區的區民那是我的娘家所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9048.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9068.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我想要為這一次好不容易11年後可以來處理這個法條爭取最大利益空間所以再給我一點點時間請財政部來跟我報告但是我對於大家今天能夠來修訂83條之七我作為一個原住民茂林區的居民我感謝大家 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9069.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9092.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
好 謝謝那我們這條我們就保留送這兩協商好不好好 那個回頭處理一下61條剛剛在協商原住民法案的同時文字的版本出現大家看一下這條有機會啦就是我覺得邏輯上大家要統一啦就是說如果法院還他清白不管在什麼時候就都可以補發那在文字上面我念一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9093.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9114.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
因為前面照這個李昆城委員的修正動議嘛然後補一段於其任期屆滿後經法院判決無罪確定或因犯罪嫌疑不足經檢查官不起訴處分確定者一同這樣子就不管是在任期前或者是任期後法院還這個人清白都有普發的一個機制大家標準是一致的請問這樣的文字委員會有沒有意見來 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9122.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9144.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
謝謝主席 那其實就是說我們的出發點都是一樣的就是說你如果是這個一生有罪的話停職 停職期間就不給薪水嘛那現在就是說你如果還他清白之後要怎麼去做這個補救措施我想說內政部這一個修正動議的這一個後來再做補充的說明我認為這樣子算完整了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9145.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9153.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
就是等於是你借滿之後如果這個官司已經還他清滿或是檢察官不起訴那我們就一樣給他薪水啦好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9154.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9180.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
張律委我覺得啦大家參考一下齁在他修正文字前予以補發那個啊齁我們先不用寫齁就規定付值後或其任其屆滿後經法院的來來來來來處分確定者予以補發你就不用寫一個予以補發然後後面再寫一個已同順一下文字嘛對不對那個key一下看一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9185.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9186.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
好像是 因為其實剛剛都講好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9224.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9226.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
來 我們的好朋友廖參事 麻煩做一下補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9237.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9238.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
主席各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9240.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9266.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
新增的這個紅色的部分剛剛是以只有判決無罪確定那後來我們跟主管機關這邊做討論因為停止的第三款試油積壓或通緝也有可能是在偵查期間發生那這樣的案件最後也有可能因為犯罪嫌疑不足而不起訴處分確定所以是增列上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9268.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9283.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
不過加上去這個我想這個組織就是對標那個法院判決無罪確定我想這兩個大概沒有什麼問題不過因為剛剛發現就是那個獲得上半部獲得上半部這一些是78條 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9303.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9319.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
抱歉啦 因為這是剛剛很臨時的又調整我們前面 或我前面加個分號對啦 加個逗號比較 段距比較清楚如果是這樣咧 634我移一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9348.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9356.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我們先問一下目前是沒有看到什麼問題了好啦 那就這樣子好不好各位好 印出來畫押那我們就修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9361.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9375.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我剛剛有請教過就是說如果他在當屆的任期的時候呢因為沒有影響到他可以再擔任那個候選人所以逾期任期的任期是指什麼時候的任期 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9376.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9399.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
因為他可以再補選 再選你懂我意思嗎所以他的任期是指什麼是四年一次的任期還是這個補足未來的任期要講清楚所以期的這個部分定義要再清楚一點我不曉得各位了解 了不了解我的意思譬如說某一個對 譬如說某一個人到明年年底他任期結束那沒有影響到他的被選舉權不是 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9405.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9424.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
如果我沒記錯的話依我們現在選舉罷免訪問的相關規定他如果再重新當選等於是民意給他一個一個清白的機會了所以他等於是重新接受民意的行李那是一個新的了所以他的薪水應該就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9426.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9431.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
就新的那一屆重新當選應該就可以領了吧應該就是可以領新的沒有問題我現在講的逾期任期屆滿是指什麼意思就是他上一屆吧一定要四年嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9441.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9458.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
對啊就當屆應該說當屆任期屆嘛是這個意思吧就他缺的那一塊吧他如果重新再當選他那屆新的一屆我知道講清楚就好了我的意思平常狀況之下都是四年一起四年一起對不對齁那在補選過後的算一起對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9460.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9484.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以我們的期的任期是指四年一起被停職的那一屆對啦當屆任期啦然後如果不滿四年就用不滿四年為主來算我不曉得各位了不了解要講清楚啦因為我本來是想說期任期把它改成該屆任期啦所以應該不影響結果嘛對不對好啦那我們還是照 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9485.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9503.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
委員會宣傳版本通過 好嗎主席 但是我覺得部長這樣講是比較清楚啦對 那文字上 因為文字上不影響效果啦該借 該借的任期要加該借嗎也可以啊 或與其該借任期借滿我覺得這樣會比較清楚一點耶來 廖三世 又麻煩你了一分是大家的好朋友廖三世 閃亮登場我們的好朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9513.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9533.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
主管機關這邊對民意代表的描述是用當屆還是可以加當屆任期也可以那如果說怕說條文太複雜也可以第二個方案是把它敘述在立法說明欄裡面就是說剛剛疑惑的地方寫在立法說明欄裡面大概就這兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9535.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9558.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
來 洪律委員我都沒有意見看要寫在立法說明或這邊如果這法部認為沒有問題也是可以啦齁這個沒有特別啦但你要再去寫規定詳細的話我跟你講鄉鎮市長是一種沒完沒了啦阿你那個縣市議員又一種還是立法說明的就補充好了好不好我們條文就這樣一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9562.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9585.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
因為我們從法條的對稱性上來講78條有寫啦這個基因撤銷、通訊、通訊報紙與其任期借滿錢一樣也是用這個文字啦要不然我們在立法說明來做一個補充好不好就是以當屆為這樣的概念那我們就還是照這個文字通過大家可以嗎好 謝謝那待會發下去大家簽字畫樣好 我們現在宣讀後面83條就不處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9592.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9601.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好,83條之9之10之11之12我們就不處理嘛,因為我們上次講處理之7嘛好不好,好,那我們宣讀協商結論,大家辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9626.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9627.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
好報告聯席委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9628.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9650.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我們現在宣讀協商結論,請宣讀地方制度法部分條文修正草案協商結論第七條之一不予修正,第七條之四不予採納第33條修正通過,第52條不予修正第55條委員劉許廷等修正動議保留第56條委員劉許廷等委員陳超明等修正動議保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9657.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9679.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
第六十一條修正通過第七十八條不予修正第八十三條之三不予修正第八十三條之七委員高清素美等在修正在修正動議委員黃捷等修正動議保留第八十三條之九八十三條之十八十三條之十一八十三條之十二不予採納沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9685.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9704.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
好 請問各位委員照剛剛的協商結論通過 請問有異議沒有好 我們就這樣通過那我們做以下的決議這個討論事項所列議案地方制度法第七條之一條文修正長等十七案以併案審查完據拟據審查報告提報願會討論請問在場委員是否需經黨團協商保留條文的部分請張宏祿委員這旁邊還有一隻 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9719.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9739.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
第一個 剛剛我們之前的33條跟61條修正通過 那個就不用再協商了就不用協商了反正我還是尊重我們主席如果今天要出去協商也沒有意見但是我覺得如果剛剛那幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9741.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9748.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我個人會建議是說反正時間也沒有急要不要再開一次會我這個是我個人的我覺得這樣子你參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9753.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9774.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
好 謝謝因為基本上這個法案已經經過詢答而且其實第二會期就已經有開始討論了嘛這等於是第三次委員會的會議了所以我們還是照本來的結論我們就是55條 56條83支7條的這個修正動議及再修正動議我們這三條的部分進黨團協商這樣我們也兼具了效率好不好那我們就經過屈經黨團協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9776.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9798.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那本案的約會討論時由本席牛召集委員許廷做補充說明審查通過的條文、條次引述條文部分文字及相關法治用語我們授權主席及議事人員整理另外本次修正之條文行政機關如有補充立法說明的部分請會後盡速送至內政委員會我們一併納入審查報告那麼我們本次會議到此結束現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9802.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9807.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
有啦 他的意思就是33跟60不協商對啊其他不協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9867.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9868.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
by bwd6 |