| IVOD_ID |
167236 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167236 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-28 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
28 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-26T10:29:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-26T10:43:58+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:38 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/eb9c45f2fd6188109a6ba5d7d6c34375784d0199fe87f28a53e5fca86ad1f1ab332e030545e112f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:29:20 - 10:43:58 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「我國武器採購策略暨國防預算(公務、基金暨特別預算)編列結構之適切性」，併請經濟部、國家發展委員會、國家科學及技術委員會列席，並備質詢。） |
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主席麻煩部長請顧部長另外我們國軍負責對中國解放軍好情報延期各方面的應該是我們請示事吧謝總將請請示事 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
22.537 |
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好兩位好我第一個想請教目前中國解放軍發生了外媒甚至於某些中國自己的智庫都形容叫做史達林式的PurgePurge就是大清洗這個在史達林時代曾經發生過那在目前看起來已知的訊息從2022年中國二十大 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.717 |
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以後已經有30個上將他們有40個現役上將組成的一個決策體系但從2022年中共二十大以後有18名下台12個到現在行蹤不明所以有30位那還沒有算到中將少將的人數聽說那個下台或失蹤人數加起來可以組一個連然後另外呢在最近這一個張又俠跟劉振利 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.211 |
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87.854 |
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其實張又俠的角色有點像解放軍的國防部長他們體制跟我們不太一樣軍委會主席是習近平但是真正負責軍政的是張又俠軍令系統的他們的聯參長也就是參謀總長劉正麗兩個也下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.056 |
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109.177 |
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所以這一個狀況我第一個先請教我們部裡面或者我們情事室這裡事情有沒有這樣的狀況那目前你們對解放軍發生這樣的事情你們有什麼樣的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.84 |
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137.129 |
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委員好跟委員報告我們一直都非常關注有關於中共特別是解放軍高層的人事異動那這個是我們持續在做掌握的但是我們也同時間要跟委員報告我們長時間的觀察解放軍對特別是中共對我們的軍事威脅並沒有因為這些高級官員的高級將領的異動而有所鬆懈所以我們也不應該趁這個機會跟委員報告說我們也不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
141.371 |
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因為這些情況這不僅不應該鬆懈風險有沒有增加的確存在有一定的風險在這是要跟委員特別做報告我今天為什麼第一題先談這個其實我們所有的軍購我相信我們在這個會議室裡面不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.151 |
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186.436 |
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是政黨的立法委員或者是國家的國軍我們大家都理解一個國家為什麼需要國防我們要保護自己的國家有外敵嘛台灣的國防為什麼困難因為我們在國際的現實上不是買方市場我們不是可以去德國萊茵金屬問一問拿來跟美國的這個哪個公司比一比這個我喜歡拿來殺價不是台灣要取得軍事裝備何其困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
188.482 |
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213.168 |
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什麼時候我們現在對外採購第一流的現代化裝備困難已經降到很低了反而是在我們國內自己不給你買當然嘴巴不會這樣講用了很多程序上很多的藉口把連討論的機會都不給你不管是年度的預算或者是特別預算的條例那回到我們的威脅也就是中國是我們台灣唯一的武力威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
214.741 |
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241.789 |
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我們現在看起來我看到一個形容詞尤其華爾街日報今天揭露說張又俠他們這幾個下來呢有涉及泄密不管他講的是真的假的他涉及核泄密啦相關被拉下來那這會產生什麼情形呢第一個我們不質疑習近平對解放軍的控制力他等於達到史無前例的強大控制力整個解放軍他一個人控制 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
242.409 |
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256.828 |
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因為40個上將組成的決策體系現在只剩下他自己跟他剛剛拉上來的張聲明兩個那這很危險喔也就是在解放軍的決策體系裡面沒有人敢說NO了因為說NO的人都不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.089 |
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277.977 |
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全部變Yes Man 變馬屁派不管什麼派現在變馬屁派上面講什麼都要照做所以謹慎理性分析的基礎不在了而只剩下習近平的意志第二個風險是什麼美方判斷本來想要跟共軍建立相關的所謂的軍事談話的機制現在誰敢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
280.518 |
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296.616 |
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你跟美國日本軍事對話建立什麼熱線電話有可能就拿來當成為所謂的成為外國間諜的藉口兩天就不見全家都不見還不自己不見所以這一個緩衝機制目前要建立極其困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
297.817 |
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317.884 |
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那他們另外一部分呢因為指揮鏈坦白講參謀總長啦或者是軍政體系這幾十個上將指揮鏈確實有暫時斷鏈然後下面的人要面對說你到底是張又俠派的還是誰哪一派的擔心被清洗所以解放軍大概會有一段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
319.324 |
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340.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
不敢妄動我講的不是對台灣喔是對他們自己內部不敢做動作怕引起猜忌甚至於可能我現在對這個長官效忠明天他被抓了下台了我可能連租租連一起倒楣這是另外一個氛圍所以不敢建立緩衝機制內部決策單一化習近平一個人說了算大概是現在狀況所以我看到一個形容詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
341.485 |
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365.573 |
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中國解放軍現在是一個大腦神經受損但是肌肉仍然強大的巨人而這個巨人可能因為錯誤的判斷隨時揮舞棒子那周邊國家不是只有我們周邊國家可能都要小心也就是過去也許擦槍走火的機會比較低現在因為是一個肌肉強大的巨人但指揮鏈呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.753 |
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392.447 |
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剩下效忠 剩下馬屁派所以有可能擦槍走火的機會會升高所以我請教部長 面對這個局勢部裡面對於新狀況的應處有沒有什麼樣的研析或者新的一個做法我想第一點還是要重申中共是不放棄武力犯台那習近平對這個的意志 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
394.025 |
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422.078 |
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也始終似乎沒有顯示他有動搖所以對於中共可能武力犯台這件事情國軍不敢絲毫鬆懈這是第一點第二點對中共的高層的這些這種大規模的一個清洗的作為所影響的他們在這個指揮鏈的體系上面之後如何持續就是說如何來這樣運作因為過去就是委員所講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
423.098 |
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449.638 |
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其實都是以軍委負責嘛軍委 軍委會會負責 他們是以黨領軍 對那這一次裡面他有特別提到說 踐踏這個軍委的這個責任制 軍委主席的責任制這句話 我們也要持續的密註來觀察這句話背後所有陰暗 這句話看起來是軍委會副主席侵犯了主席的權利那簡單講就是指控張又俠對習近平叛變嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
450.489 |
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464.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那我們要持續的關注以中央軍委來負責整個整個中國這個有關這個軍事所有相關的這個決策跟指揮的這個部分的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
465.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
493.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第二個要持續來關注第三個當然就是說對我們的威脅我們的要關注的是他的預警徵口這樣的預警徵口不只是只有軍事面所有非軍事面我們都要持續那這個不只是我們根據我們自己的這個相關的系統那也要跟友盟情誌來加以進行交換我們會持續的密註我這邊有四個建議啦我四個建議給部裡面做參考第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
494.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
509.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
當然這是一個危險但也是一個機會也就是他這一個指揮鏈的清洗過程會讓他的目前整個指揮體系會有一個兩到三年的盤整期這個是一個非常珍貴的資源就是我們最需要的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
524.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
投資和平 投資國防的珍貴時間所以這個時間很稀有 要珍惜第二個 情報跟心理層面我不知道我們部裡面現在反情報作戰 反認知作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
526.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
546.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
中共內部我們對那邊相關的心理作戰這個要提升情報的收集跟有盟的情報的交換第三個是我們該做的行政跟立法我覺得應該合作要在這個時候穩定的不管是國防預算或者是國安相關的法律應該在這個機會穩健的把它執行出來有什麼意見溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
549.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
569.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
認為該修該三該怎麼處理該怎麼處理但是絕對不是停滯不前因為時間很稀有最後一個是第一島鏈的協同尤其川普新公佈的美國戰略其實是希望尤其在印太地區第一島鏈的國家要承擔自己該做partner的parts你的自己的部分所以跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
570.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
日本、澳洲甚至於南方的菲律賓怎麼樣協同從情報交換從區域的單一戰區甚至於更進一步的單一執管這個部分我覺得應該是一個重點而對於異常現象特別是以往還有這些煞車皮現在煞車皮不在了對於這種可能擦槍走火的樣態的應處 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
592.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
可能我建議部裡面跟參謀本部要去思考我先因應方式可能要跟著這個中國的政經局勢變化來做判斷這是我給部裡面跟參謀本部的建議那我最後請教兩個問題我們現在國防預算坦白講已經五個多月了年度預算國防預算也沒辦法審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
614.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
638.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
部長這個組黨連副委都沒有辦法對於我們台灣安全的傷害你們簡單說一下或者舉幾個明確的例子比方說我所謂的傷害是戰力提升延遲戰力維持不足甚至於戰力維持不足可能有些新增預算不足的時候他沒辦法支應我們新型態的需求油料啦彈藥啦然後還有不可逆的傷害這個最重要會不會這個時間錯過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
640.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
647.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們原來要籌措的 原來要做的錯過以後就很難第一個就年度預算的部分部長這邊有沒有什麼說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
648.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
674.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我想我們之前已經有說過了最主要就是說他除了新增計畫之外他還有一個就是說今年的金額要是比去年多的這個部分也都不行來致用那所以我想我們海馬士標槍次增還有戰術數據鏈路及連戰指管系統維護還有這些保護戰鬥人員的這些各裝等等還有包括F-16的後續訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
676.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
699.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
然後還有這些官兵的這些基層部隊的運作跟提升官兵的照顧只要比去年多的這個金額的項目都不能夠來執行所以對於這個我們提升一個我們的嚇阻戰力還有我們的不對稱戰力還有保護戰鬥人員跟照顧官兵都會有相當大的影響那油料跟彈藥呢 有沒有影響油料跟彈藥的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
703.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
730.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
油料影響是多少 這個足跡局啊對 因為有 這是新增預算的部分嘛是 油料115年比114年度增加4億元的部分我們也會被管制所以那個地方沒辦法供資啊 是的沒辦法供資 所以變成我們的我們的官兵弟兄姊妹他的油料 他相關的需求該練那些受影響那年度預算的話 我們現在一併問啦包含我們特別預算 特別條例當然後面還有編列預算詳細的細節啦 各項目啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
733.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
755.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
有沒有那個錯過了可能未來就很難而對國家的安全戰力影響非常大的當然屬於機密系項目的你不用明說啦但是有沒有不可逆的傷害剛剛剛剛有提到那個這請范國威先生來講那委員軍購案那個部分我剛剛已經做過說明了就是因為我們幾個已經撕毀國會了發達書即將到達他是有期限的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
756.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
780.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那第二個部分衝擊最大的就是川普之前公布 最近公布在那八項裡面五項軍購案他的發下書應該在近期之內就會拿到他的效期是45天那過期會怎麼樣過期就要看跟美方談判之後他們願不願意再延長如果美方基於他的後續生產或是其他國家的訂單不願意延長那個項目可能就得重新再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
781.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
797.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這是第一個第二個我們其中二十餘萬架的小型無人機的部分是希望能夠帶動國內的廠商進行初步的投資所以軍備局前面已經做了兩年期四萬五千多架的一個招商說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
798.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
820.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那如果說我們現在在這個時候把這個案子往後delay的話恐怕廠商他就會觀望因為畢竟他得做大量的投資才有辦法建一個幾萬架無人機的產線那如果說他不投資的話後續就算我們預算過了那一樣會耽誤到那個時間這個是影響到我們的戰備眾生嘛我們的軍需戰備需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
822.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
841.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
另外一個項目軍需彈背的需求就是我們希望籌購的急缺彈藥的項目以及軍備產線的擴張的這個部分一個是我們現在沒有產線要買一個是建立我們以後自給自足的產線第一個是做不夠的第二個是做不出來的所以這個也會因為這些預算延宕可能錯過了可能就很難了 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
844.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
872.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 所以我們今天看中國對台威脅的狀況現在新的狀況那我們希望國軍大家辛苦了那相關的預算 條例我還是那句話國防安全其實沒有黨派的分別我們都住在這裡2300萬人都面對一樣的生活 一樣的情況是不是能復偽 儘快復偽有什麼意見占多數的總是可以表決可以刪除 可以檢列但是一直擋在程序委員會外面 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
874.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
876.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
其實最後受害的是我們整體國人跟國家好 謝謝 |