| IVOD_ID |
167186 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167186 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-19T12:45:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-19T13:04:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f851c9d23c07ff8cc95175d69df13e4e8eda37d2db32b336acc6b22339bbe58c964b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅廷瑋 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:45:01 - 13:04:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。） |
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有請國土署署長還有部長 謝謝請留部長還有國土署代理署長還有部長 謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.209 |
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部長還有署長我想土方之亂大家網路不斷的在報導我會關心最主要是因為我們在地方爭取了自來水管線的工程汰換前陣子停工到後面現在已經有知名的企業出來喊話土方之亂有可能造成美瓶再貴5萬元最後受害的是所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.369 |
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我們這些年輕家庭也好買房的人也好這讓我們非常擔憂啊如果這樣子的一個狀況不加以改善而且是超緊急改善不是中長期這些所謂的成本都會轉嫁到消費者 |
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75.267 |
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我們剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關心我們現在不管是最終處置也就是西以及我們現在看到台中所提出的替代方案也就是台中的這個台中港那這個部分的大概有提出了部分來做站置那剛剛部長你有提到如果要運到台北台北港那邊來做處理是可以接受的是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
104.053 |
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海運的部分喔那可是這些人就問一句話當他運到台北的時候海運的部分這中間的運費一定會有一些多的成本出來請問中央會補助嗎如果是公共工程的話不是公共工程那很抱歉我跟委員報告我們要一個概念我們現在在處理這個部分是為了以前不合法的 |
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處置方向那我們現在要把它拉正回來要怎麼樣合法的處置方向所以有業者提到說要增加那以前如果他們亂堆亂置的時候後續的環境保護所花費的恐怕是十倍百倍不止所以我覺得他們應該了解這個狀況 |
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148.274 |
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162.982 |
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署長我在跟你在江副院長開會的時候當時你有提到台中其實早在110年就有做GPS而且在當時這樣的政策之下台中的處理狀況是相對比較好的對吧 |
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164.136 |
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是 對吧 報告委員我們目前的話就是台中跟我們就是雙軌並行我們現在是講GPS我知道 雙軌並行你先回應我嘛台中是不是早在110年就已經有做GPS相對應的做追蹤所以台中的這個部分是不是做得比較好嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
181.428 |
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報告委員 但是台中只處理到BC的部分他沒有處理你剛剛就說是了然後現在又轉口那C的部分也是因為你處理的量能不夠你增加C我沒有問題我跟你講今天我們都支持你的方案不管你雙軌制或者是你要怎麼處理都沒有關係但今天我也不是在幫這些運到台北的業者講話我是怕他所有的成本轉嫁到最後消費者啊那這個部分難道 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.909 |
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238.511 |
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你不承擔業者也不承擔最後是誰承擔我們全民都知道嘛全民承擔嘛所以今天我不是要你硬著頭皮掏錢給他們啦而是台中的配套超短期的一個救濟是不是應該先出來所以他們有說是不是暫緩三個月暫緩六個月有的人覺得兩個月都不可能等 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.281 |
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266.534 |
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因為你自己也知道現在已經開挖到一半這些地下室如果經過一場大雨造成整個內部崩落旁邊林房的損失我再問一句可以申請國賠嗎他因為你的政策停工所以大雨來了眼巴巴的看著他就是內部剝落那請問林房倒塌算 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
268.295 |
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296.744 |
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這個企業的還是算你的報告委員這個我知道我們公安的意外的部分我們也非常非常的重視所以在我們今天下午跟各地方政府開會我希望你們好好討論因為你一直在講今年能夠提供對不起不是今年年底我們只要從現在開始一場大雨就好就會造成挖到一半的地下室導致公安危機請問一下這可以用年來算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
298.618 |
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318.689 |
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所以我們還是呼籲今天你們下午的會議超短期的配套不管是要做一個暫緩也好不管是要做一個臨時的暫制也好你們都應該要提出來而且當天會議我們有一直在追如果他自己還有其他的土地自己還有其他土地他做暫制可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
319.916 |
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333.003 |
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我們現在就希望透過地方的自治條例或是定地相關規定來處理現在不只是地方自治條例地方自治條例也是說嘛兩個月三個月的時間嘛有沒有其他的配套方式他自己有自己的土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.976 |
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349.878 |
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有多的他拿來佔置這個部分你們來做一個控管是這個只要能夠管理的好我們都可以所以你配套出來啊是是是好不好所以下午我們一起討論是所以部長剛剛我所提到的我知道你有意願要改善可是絕對不是半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.699 |
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368.958 |
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絕對不是好幾個月我們也了解就是會有這種臨時要處理的狀況那我也跟委員報告就是說在臨近我們那個在上次開會的時候已經解決跨區運送像譬如說台中的北部是北邊是苗栗或者是南部有一個其他的地區好像是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.618 |
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397.434 |
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彰化還是哪裡都會有土資廠的餘裕這是一個那另外一個就是說我們會想要解決就是您剛所提到如果他現在有公安問題要處理的話在毗鄰土地上面要在同一區這區位怎麼做確認不會影響到環保跟公安的問題的話我們會透過譬如說台中市政府他的自治規定或者他的自治管理規則把它明定進去的話就可以暫時解決您剛所提到這個困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
398.24 |
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427.114 |
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好 部長我們還是要定調土方的問題不是營造業單獨的問題因為它有可能衍生到公安還有所謂的民眾轉嫁成本最後導致我們現在的住屋又漲價這就是錯誤的政策這個到住屋蓋完之前還有一段距離不過我跟委員報告一定是還有一段時間但我們都知道業者很聰明一定會轉嫁到消費者報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
427.634 |
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445.321 |
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我們不容許不合法的土資去向這個是大家共識性非常高的所以我們要怎麼樣解決除了中長城計畫大家不反對以外短期的部分我們已經解決跨區要能夠清運這一個然後再來就是毗鄰的土地怎麼做定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
460.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
還有一個就是說我們可不可以擴大就是說它在榮受這個土石方的時候所謂叫公益性譬如說它是市地重劃或者是區段徵收那這個可不可以變成是公益性的收容 收容土石方這個可以討論沒關係 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
461.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那所以我剛剛跟委員報告的部分就是說如果大家願意一起解決尤其我們在開會的時候啊這個大部分的縣市政府尤其是很多這個直轄市政府都有表達同樣的意見跟建議那他們也跟我們站在同樣的立場我們不希望業者採取觀望或是緩衝這樣的手段因為這樣子只是把問題往後越堆積越嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
485.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
508.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
另外我要跟部長在討論的是今天我們先把話說重一點年輕人就是被民進黨給騙了因為選前講的一套選後做的就是另外一套我想我手機這個影片大家都看過多年前一個大學生在詢問賴清德總統你的社會住宅的政策很難執行他說13萬戶沒有問題甚至還說 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
541.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
他的政策比蔡英文總統的更有力我想賴清德總統在選舉時對年輕人對社會說得很清楚該要蓋社會住宅今天我們不要再講說住宅法裡面把包租貸款也放在裡面了就很清楚賴清德總統說的今天我們到底是要看賴清德總統說的還是要看住宅法的一個圓融的一個界定那你告訴我要看法 法比較大那立法院所訂定的法你們又不執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
542.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
556.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以賴清德總統當時一直不斷的講讓年輕人有地方住敢成家敢生孩子現在這不是模糊的承諾這個是很明確的政治承諾但是現在政府現在對外說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
557.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
574.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
不再蓋這麼多的社會住宅要改以包租代管我待會來就教大家你們心中自有一把尺租金補貼作為主力並聲稱這也是社會住宅我承認這是社會住宅的一環但這是社會住宅嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
575.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
讲白一点就是要把原本承诺盖的房子改成用补贴嘛所以你们现在一直强调包租贷款也是社会住宅对不起我不能够接受那我就问一个最基本的问题请部长回应我 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
592.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
616.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
拜託你你說包租代管你說租金補貼就是社會住宅那請問一下我們如果實際蓋了社會住宅他會留下來公共資產政府對於房源有長期的掌握但是包租代管但是租金補貼房子是私人的房東說不租就不租 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
617.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那請問一下這兩者的制度上就有本質的差異不能混為一談今天我也遇到我們一直在修法租金補貼一定要給所謂的房東房客更多的機會來作為溝通的橋樑最後所謂的公益出租者能夠租金來做補貼以後部分的稅金能夠減免 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
670.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
讓房客更容易申請那我想請問一下部長今天如果房客正要租房您是房東啊你直接明確的表達對不起如果你要申請租金補貼我不會我連跟你簽約都還沒簽約只是詢問我可不可以就說那你可能可以找別人那請問這樣子我們可不可以申訴對方 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
672.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
689.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
都完全沒有任何契約產生那對嘛講得這麼簡單房子沒有這麼好找一點就這些地方不是所有人的人都可以領得到租金補貼要有一定的身份他是屬於經濟弱勢或是社會弱勢有錢人不一定要去申請租金補貼這個我們可以來協助我們來協助第一層遇到的民眾就跟我們反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
701.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
725.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
說要申請租金補貼房東直接說掰掰不用聯絡報告委員台中市申請租金補貼的人數是全台灣最多的我們遇到更多的狀況喔不要說沒有遇到我講給大家聽啦房東直接跟他說喔你要申請租金補貼喔讚支持加油阿記得我會漲一些你要給我喔那請問你要怎麼處理檢舉他 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
731.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
748.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我當然知道檢舉他檢舉他有罰款我們修法檢舉他有罰款但是問題馬上下一次合約一到他就請他搬家這些問題要不要考量到這些租屋者的困境有沒有被我們給接觸到 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
749.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
765.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們有修法我當然知道我們有修法但是這些租屋者的困境並沒有完全被解決所以今天我們為什麼在討論社會住宅的一個重要性因為政府就是房東能夠給予的一些幫助是更實際的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
767.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
786.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
而你告訴我們租金補貼包租貸款也是社會住宅但是本質上所謂的私人財產我們就沒辦法全面的解除啊報告委員您弄錯了我剛所提到的社會住宅就是直接興辦跟包租貸款才是社會住宅租金補貼只是租金補貼反正你們今天就是不斷一直在整個社會住宅政策裡面幫助賴清德在包裝啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
794.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
798.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以從今天你們改題目不尊重我們現在所訂定的題目到現在整個社會住宅轉為包租、代管跟補貼是一個正確負責任的一個轉彎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
809.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
830.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我覺得政府應該要跟年輕人講清楚說明白賴清德總統應該要親自跟所有的年輕人跟租屋者來做道歉更關鍵的是這個轉彎並不是因為政府做不到內政部自己在百萬戶租屋家庭支持計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
831.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
850.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
草案當中早在2025年1月就已經盤點全國260處社會住宅用地面積約265公頃可以興建9.4萬戶的社會住宅並且明確說明持續滾動修正擴大供給但現在同一個政府面對社會大眾卻說土地不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
851.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
872.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
社宅蓋在偏遠地區沒有人住我要問一下請問部長這些如果地方沒有人住當初為什麼要盤點這260處的盤點是各縣市各機關然後送給國土署的但是我們必須要做評估所以你是說因為地方政府的評估因為地方政府的盤點導致你們的政策錯誤囉導致當時正在競選總統的賴清德被這些錯誤的資訊給搞混了囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
880.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
884.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
從他的嘴巴說出來我認為他應該要有責任這是他的一個政治承諾而且剛剛你有說盤點完以後你們會評估你們評估完了才會對外公佈嘛那當時他的政策小組難道沒有負責任嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
899.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
904.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
還是先喊了再說所以我想請問內政部你可不可以有責任的公布這260處社會住宅用地我沒有說你今天沒有一副責任部長今天你們面對的問題你們跟民眾清楚的表達 蓋不出來一副責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
928.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
944.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
你負責任但是賴清德總統當時的承諾卻沒有告訴全民他錯了當時還這樣子回應那個大學生他做得到還回應那個大學生他的政策比蔡英文更有力所以我今天我不是譴責內政部啊我是譴責賴清德怎麼會透過內政部來幫你包裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
956.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
968.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
政治的語言政治的承諾賴清德應該要出來道歉啊所以我剛剛在問內政部請問一下剛剛我們說的這200多處社會住宅可以公告嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
971.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
991.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我們本來就有盤點閒置的房地啊可不可以公布這些所有的用地在哪裡會後可不可以讓我知道一下這份資料沒有問題 但是也要跟委員報告這個必須要跟地方一起來協助才有可能共同推動我們的立場還是一樣 中央跟地方要一起合作而不是互相推諉 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
992.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1019.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我想具體的位置跟取得方式讓社會來檢視其中究竟有多少屬於市區可及的範圍又有多少原本是透過都市更新甚至是捷運聯合開發等方式取得住宅用地包括委員您的方向非常正確就是我們多元取得社會住宅的用地但我希望讓社會來檢視一下這相關的資料嘛如果政府真的擔心需求不足我會給你時間為什麼不敢公開基地讓需求本身來說話為什麼寧可用推測 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1021.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1038.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
用假設作為整個政策退縮的理由所以我們會持續不同的滾動檢討推出穩健的社會住宅政策委員這已經不是能力的問題了也不是條件不足的問題而是執政黨的選擇我們民進黨政府選擇不做而這樣的選擇最終承擔這些代價承擔後果的就是全台灣納稅人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1049.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1070.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我們既然賴清德做出的政治承諾已經無法兌現他也沒辦法出來向社會道歉那麼主管機關內政部部長 劉部長 國土署署長你們就應該為賴清德13萬戶社會住宅政策實際跳票 負起政治的責任 下台吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1072.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1084.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
報告委員 很多直轄市長到目前為止也是一樣8年的直接興辦社宅數也是沒有達到他應該到達的數量那您是在說林佳龍嗎林佳龍真的沒有做到喔是不是公開譴責林佳龍了我要講的是現階段你要是接 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1096.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1104.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
現階段你要直接管這個文字有事哎呀 我沒有做到啊 別人也沒有做到啊這就是現在內政部長的一個態度啊我們的態度是中央跟地方要一起合作 報告委員我們作為在野黨 我們作為執政 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1114.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1128.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
應該要監督的一個角色對於所有政治的跳票我們都譴責但是竟然從內政部長嘴巴裡面說出來我們做不到 別人也做不到啊我沒有說這樣的話希望委員會倒帶中央跟地方要一起合作中央跟地方要一起合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1134.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1146.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
中央跟地方本來就應該一起合作但是你剛剛的態度只是想要推卸責任讓全民看到我們現在的執政黨的態度就是這樣作為一個監督的角色我還是公開的再說一次我們都是同一套標準我們都一樣譴責但是現在我看到你就是說我沒有做到 別人也沒有做到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1158.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1170.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
抱歉委員從你的嘴巴說出來我只有遺憾啦謝謝羅督委員 也謝謝部長 您誤解了OK好 我們接下來 您誤解了謝謝羅督委員的發言接下來我們中午不休息繼續開會 |