| IVOD_ID |
16715 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16715 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-28T08:31:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-28T12:07:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:35:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3eadabd91bd523f6fd0838da8792fb05a3da12e9ca99aa835c042a473da92e2855a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算解凍案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:30 - 12:07:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1853.922 |
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1861.557 |
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好 請主任秘書報告出席人數出席委員12人 已足法定人數好 我們現在開會進行報告事項 請宣讀上市會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1864.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1892.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11届第三會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議事錄時間114年5月22日星期四上午9時4分至12時46分地點紅龍202會議室出席委員蘇巧慧委員等13人列席委員鄭天才委員等7人請假委員黃建斌委員1人列席官員原住民族委員會主任委員曾志勇暨相關人員財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長馬拉歐斯財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長麻藥古木 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1893.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1913.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
内政部海洋委员会财政部法务部经济部劳动部农业部卫生福利部环境部文化部国家发展委员会行政员主席总处等机关代表级相关人员主席牛昭纪委员许婷报告事项一宣读上次会议实录决定确定二邀请原住民族委员会主任委员率统所属及财团法人原住民族文化事业基金会董事长 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1914.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1938.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
与财团法人原住民组委员研究发展基金会董事长列席报告业务概况并被质询报告事项及讨论事项和并询答委员卢宪一说明提案要旨原住民组委员会主任委员曾志勇报告委员张志伦等17人质询由原住民组委员会主任委员曾志勇及相关人员财团法人原住民组文化事业基金会董事长马拉欧斯财团法人原住民组委员研究发展基金会董事长马耀古木答复说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1938.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1947.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
决定一登记发言委员初步在场者外其余均已发言完毕询答结束而委员林一锦丁雪忠等二人所提书面指寻列入记录看登公报 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1948.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1975.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
三 书面质询及未及答复部分请相关机关与一周内另以书面答复并复制本会讨论事项一 处理114年度中央政府总预算案有关原住民组委员会及所属预算解冻案及二案决议以上个案处讨论事项一 关乎二所列第二款第八项决议关乎一 关乎二 关乎五及关乎十预算继续冻结外其余均同意动之拟据报告提报愿会二 审查原住民族基本法修正草案等十二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1976.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1989.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
決議以上個案均另定期繼續審查條文均語宣讀完畢宣讀完畢好請問各位委員上次會議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏好沒有那議事錄確定那繼續進行報告事項和討論事項請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1994.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2010.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄二 處理114年度中央政府總預算有關行政院預算凍結案書面報告案即二案討論事項 處理114年度中央政府總預算有關行政院預算凍結案專案報告書面報告案即六案 宣讀完畢好 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2013.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2025.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
報告事項第二案處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案及兩案,均細提送書面報告後,使得凍滯的案子各位有沒有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2031.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2056.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們現在本日議程所列討論事項我們合併詢答那我們現在介紹在場委員及列席官員麥玉珍委員王美惠委員黃婕委員李柏毅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2061.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2068.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
張之隆委員我們行政院是我們祕書長,拱明星祕書長我們請行政院拱明星祕書長報告請剪短 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2084.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2098.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席各位委員女士先生首先要非常感謝各位委員先進可以本院過去的支持跟協助那在這邊請代表主任長向各位委員致上最高的敬意那有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2099.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2124.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本院在114年度被凍結的預算那請就凍結本院114年預算的五億元還有凍結業務費70%等六案來向各位委員說明進行指教那首先第一案是有關於行政院114年度預算凍結五億是行政院向貴委員會提出原住民保留地淨法補償條例追加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2126.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2142.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
以及原住民補充人力規劃騎乘等等方案 使得動之有關於進法補償的部分事實上在113年6月24號修訂公佈以後補償的標準由每公頃3萬塊調升到6萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2145.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2149.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那經這個原民會盡力的檢討編列原住民百合地進法補償的預算28億已經比113年度增加了7億 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2158.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2179.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那另外原住民綜合發展基金在投資社會住宅上符合該基金的收支保管及運用辦法第4條第5條有關於基金來源及用途的相關規定所以截至到114年4月底為止基金的餘額還有45億那一估114年底不會有基金運作上的一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2185.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2206.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
另外本院未來將依進法補償經費上的需求還有社會住宅投資的情形還有基金的財務狀況業務上的實際需要適時由公務的預算撥補協處以改善情況達到我們市政的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2207.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2223.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那另外有關於協助原住民推動原住民族政策那該會自從103年組織調整到今已經因應業務上的需要合爭的原額大概有59人比103年組織調整前已經成長了35.9% |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2229.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2242.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那原民會他也會依相關的這個原油管理辦法的規定務實來評估未來所需要的這個人力的列行也好或是人數或是人事費以後呢那循程序來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2245.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2263.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
另外有關於原民會在113年8月7號公布的評普原住民族群身份法的草案那已經提到那也經過本院的3952次的院會通過了也喊請這個貴院來做審議了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2265.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2292.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那最後是本院將審訊面對各種法案跟預算的審查那對於委員所關心的議題事實上本院相關的部會也予為準備妥適的回應那本院將謹慎遵守行政官員列席會議的相關規範並且確實依議事的規則來辦理尊重立法權對於行政權所必要的監督機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2294.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2310.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那有關於第二案行政院業務費凍結70%是執行30%以後使得凍結並經院會以後同意使得凍結那向各位報告本院的院本部的業務費的預算截至到114年5月15號為止已經支用了4078萬元那現在的執行率大概是22% |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2319.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2325.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那如果連同現在已經簽准的五月份那資金率已經達到26.7%那預計到這個月底呢這個動勢率就會達到30% |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2333.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2350.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那第三案是有關於一般行政科目凍結一千萬是行政院向官委會提出全面檢討內部管理系統專案報告以後使得凍失那這個是有關於職場霸凌的部分那人事總署近期為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2351.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2366.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
因應這個職場霸凌的事件以及強化食物的防治作為在113年11月20號的時候已經通函要求各機關針對現行各機關的這個霸凌防治的作業規定持續強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2369.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2396.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
員工的保護以及縮短調查的時程以及落實執行的相關的機制並且要重新檢討修正相關的建議作為以及標準作業流程本院也在113年度12月13號建置了院層級的職場霸凌案件的通報平台除了提供機關內的內部的申訴管道之外有另外一個申訴的途徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2397.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2414.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
並且由人事總署進行案件的最終列管另外針對法治主管機關也就是保訓費為了強化現行的各機關職場霸凌防治也已經擬定了相關法規的修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2416.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2440.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那未來人事總署將依這個法制化的作業進程持續的利用多元管道分眾辦理這個宣導跟練習以協助各機關落實資產霸凌防治的相關作業有關於第四案一般行政檔案管理典藏掃描以及維護的科目凍結三百萬是行政院向貴委員會提出檔案管理專案報告以後使得凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2442.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2445.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那本院金管的這個檔案總共高達322萬餘件 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2448.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2458.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那在112年度我們也訂立了行政院本部的檔案管理中長程的計劃從112年到114年那所需要的經費是693萬5000元但是經過貴院的審議刪減了大概508億1000元那現在改列的是185萬4000元那經過檢討以後我們將來會辦理的項目包括了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2475.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2500.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第一個是歷年來資本檔案的數位掃描第二個是國家檔案的這個移轉作業經費那有關於第五案就是性別平等業務科目凍結150萬是行政院向國有委會提出校園性騷擾等精進方案以後使得動之那為了防範所謂的狼師或狼教練進入校園 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2501.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2517.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
除了落實校園性騷擾性侵害以及性霸凌等校園性別事件的通報以及防堵學校不適任人員的機制之外並且透過相關的測試減少相關事件的一些發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2519.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2535.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
另外為了持續的完善整個防治機制相關的精進做法包括了要加強學生通報以及處理的資能第二個就是建立友善的安全校園環境第三個劃定師生的倫理界線 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2537.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2556.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那再來就是說精進通報的系統跟間接還有資料的查詢機制另外還包括了深化司法跟警察人員的專業資能還有就是說強化加害人的處遇措施最後是嚴禮延長性侵害案件的追逐期的時效 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2557.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2571.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
本院教期是整合政府的行政量能結合跨部會的作為有點到面架構全面性的防事安全的網絡共同來守護安全無虞的學習環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2572.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2601.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那有關於第六案資訊管理科目的凍結150萬是行政院向貴委員會提出114年度政策研討以及成果上架的這個網路制度性的做法以後那使得眾知那本院呢事實上已經訂定的行政院院本部邀請專家學者辦理專題演講或研討會成果分析作業的規定並且含之本院各單位查照辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2603.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2612.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那以上是有關於各案被凍結的預算那懇請各位委員同意解除凍結避本院能夠順利地推展各項業務以上報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2617.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2636.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好我們現在進行詢問答好委員諮詢前原例作為以下幾點宣告本會委員發言時間5加2分鐘非本會委員發言時間5分鐘上午10時30分子接著發言登記因為今天處理預算解凍案本次會議就不處理臨時提案請問各位有沒有意見什麼意見蛤喔那其他委員勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2665.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2675.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他有意見我知道啊但我現在還是要尊重其他委員啊我要問一下其他委員啊對啊不是你有意見的就有意見啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2677.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2679.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好 我問其他 請問其他委員好 那個高軍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2697.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2709.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
是不是也尊重一下麥玉珍委員把他的臨時提案念一下好不好我們要了解一下他的臨時提案到底是什麼可以嗎 謝謝好來還有蘇巧慧委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2720.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2735.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
如果認為我們這個委員會審查的時候真的是按照慣例啦我們好不容易現在漸漸的委員會又恢復秩序大家比較知道說什麼時候該做什麼事情比如說有法案提案的時候就不會有臨時提案預算審查的時候就不會有臨時提案大家早起剛來這樣比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2737.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2755.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好做事啦 那好不容易是這樣那我想今天每個委員也都有質詢的時間所以意見表達都有適當的時間可以被表達嘛那臨時提案也不是說以後就都不能提對不對 那我是不是覺得還是是照好不容易恢復的秩序來進行這樣我是比較建議這樣好 謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2758.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2781.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
如果照議事規則可以臨時提案的話我就臨時提案了不是慣例就不能嘛對不對議事規則是可以臨時提案我就臨時提案議事規則我當主席的人主席可以是要照我排定的這樣子啦這是互相尊重啦但我覺得好我再講話你先等一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2782.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2799.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那我覺得這樣我們互相尊重,我們今天不處理,但蔓越真委員你的臨時提案你先唸一下給大家聽聽看嘛,好不好就照高薪委員的,對啊對啊,你唸一下嘛好,臨時提案案由 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2806.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2810.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
行政部門政府有籌編預算治權 立法部門有預算審議治權 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2816.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2838.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
兩二部門就是互相制衡 立法院部門減預算收入及支出符合憲法或法律之規定立法部門審議預算時減少行政部門所提預算的按編列自收入或支出金額可分為 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2840.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2855.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
可分為個別刪減儀通案刪減兩種方式一是年度中央政府總預算案經立法院依法審議後共刪減2075億元其中含經濟部不當的撥補台電至1000億即通案刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2872.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2892.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
939億的議員就通案刪除之對象提案內容已清楚載明中央各機關及所屬且在通案刪減項目中根據沒有對地方政府補助之通案刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2895.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2912.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
然行政院不僅未依零預算的原則督促中央及其所屬各行政機關遵截預算依立法院決議內容自行 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2913.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2916.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
刪減中央各機關及所屬制開支更違法發文、尼蕭內、延運、撥付地方政府制一般性補助款達27.3%此舉不僅違法法律的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2935.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2952.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
與嚴重傷害地方自治與人民權益影響如身心障礙者的生活補助弱勢兒童及少年生活補助學校水電費學生午餐經費國中 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2955.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2968.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
國中小冷氣電費與維護費、水利工程、清衣書籍、文化與體育發展等地方建設及社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2970.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2995.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
福利補助經費一財政收支劃分法第30條明文規定中央政府給予地方政府至一般性補助款金額不得少於修正實行前一年預算編列數中央有法定撥付義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2996.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3009.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
不能任意刪除扣除刪減扣除而提案要求行政院應尊重財政收支花分法明定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3011.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3026.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
財政保障機制立即停止違法短發行為依法足而撥付給地方政府一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3027.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3041.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
確保中央與地方財政公平合理維護國家正常治理順序與民眾基本權利提案人 麥一貞謝謝這個我請求各位委員我剛聽了這個雖然沒有書面但我聽了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3056.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3065.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這個不是我們內政委員會可以處理的這應該是去院會去提案的我覺得應該是這樣這我們內政委員會無法處理院會其實已經提案了,也通過了,也表決過了對啊,所以就在院會處理啊對啊,就在院會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3080.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3100.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
上禮拜五不是有表決嗎對啊對啊內容差不多嘛我不好意思直接講上禮拜有表決沒有啦 蔓茵珍委員表達她立場嘛因為今天來的是行政院的代表對啊 對啦好不好 謝謝我們就念過了啦 好不好好不好 我們就念過我們現在開始進行詢答好那我們現在請登記第一位的高金素美委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3110.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3121.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
謝謝有請藐視內政委員會的拱民署長拱民署長您如果沒有跟內政委員會的委員道歉藐視這兩個字會永遠跟隨你喔好五月的時候你出席朱梅代表處的歡迎酒會你知道你說了什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3133.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3145.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我說了很多事情我不曉得你指的哪一個你說台美合作可以促成美國再次的偉大這句話我認為不僅僅是失言更是嚴重的國格矮化 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3147.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3175.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
讓美國再次偉大這是川普他的選戰口號您是中華民國的官員你不是美國競選團隊的發言人請問你講這句話的時候是代表你個人還是代表國家的利益因為台美合作不僅會美國再次偉大也會幫助台灣壯大這是互相互利的你知道美國再次偉大是剝削全世界剝削台灣人民嗎台美的合作不會這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3176.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3192.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我告訴你啦我們是從來不會反對跟美國合作但是呢我們合作的前提之下是必須要平等互利有底線而不是一昧的讓利貴之配合我們回顧一下這幾年美國是怎麼對待我們的我們開放萊豬 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3195.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3215.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
放寬農藥標準簽署了台美貿易倡議卻沒有任何一個保障條款我們接受了台灣學人法案允許美國的人進入到我們的政府體系你們最清楚然後我們將超過九成的外匯存底全部投入了美債 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3217.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3238.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
結果呢美國升息我們也吞下了賄損美國加徵關稅我們沒有得到減免也沒有任何一個經濟的保障或軍事的承諾現在我們行政院還想要不經過立法院就要成立主權基金請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3239.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3243.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個沒有骨氣的秘書長也藐視內政委員會的秘書長這些單方面的讓步讓美國再次偉大我們換到了什麼請您說清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3251.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3273.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
鮑威我們所有的施政方向一定是以台灣的國家利益為重我們換到了什麼 講清楚你不要用這些不明不白的語調在這邊欺騙我們所有的國百姓事實數據證明從2016年開始台美之間的合作非常的好台灣的經濟也創了歷史上非常高的很好的成績出來閉嘴 看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3275.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3282.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我剛剛所說的這些東西都是最近這幾年發生的事情所有的人民百姓都記得非常的清楚我要再講的是台灣如果真的要成為全球的所謂的供應鏈的關鍵就應該要有什麼要有骨氣要有原則要有自己的主張而不是成為任何一個人予取予求的第51週 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3303.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3312.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我們看看新加坡看看日本他們對美國也有壓力啊但是呢人家是怎麼樣捍衛他們的國家立場而你們呢我們的國家官員呢既然高喊要讓別人再次偉大台灣要強大不是靠討好美國啦是要靠守住我們人民的利益跟尊嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3330.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3340.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我真的毫不客氣的說你們對外卑躬居欺但是你們對內對自己的人卻是非常的囂張跋扈請問秘書長你知道49天是什麼意思嗎49天對你知道嗎不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3347.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3365.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
這是行政院違法掃編進法補償預算然後在我們在野黨團強力的監督之下被迫就承認了他的錯誤白紙黑字承諾要追加預算的天數 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3367.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3395.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
剛好49天所以呢你們寧可拖延總預算審查也不願再次面對原住民最基本的補償正義對吧1月10號的時候你們再次書面承諾看一下你們承諾會追加預算而人民會呢也在3月10號依法提出了23.9億元的申請請問秘書長目前追加預算的進度怎麼樣我今天就要解凍你的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3397.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3416.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我們是盡量當然就是說我剛剛已經說明就是說進化補償從每公頃3萬塊變成6萬塊那我們事實上原民會也盡力的編定了28億什麼叫盡力了依法要編多少你們只編一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3417.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3437.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
你們只編3萬塊 另外的3萬塊不見了所以才會有今天49天 然後今天才會再凍結你的預算所以今天才會有所需的經費 要採追加預算方式辦理請問一下 你們追加預算簽了嗎 園民會已經送到行政院了 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3438.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3449.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我想最重要還是說讓原民可以得到一公頃六萬塊這個市值我們會盡量做好這件事情請再看所需經費彩追加預算方式辦理追加預算方式辦理黑紙白白紙黑字在這裡你們現在不敢講了是不是為什麼因為你們曾經對其他的立法委員說這位立法委員就是張志倫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3467.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3473.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
你們說因為憲法訴訟進行所以不可以追加請問一下行政院有提證實處分嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3475.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3504.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
有嗎我們已經提出釋憲你們有提暫時處分嗎提出釋憲釋憲跟暫時處分是兩回事情根據憲法訴訟法的第43條只有大法官核定暫時處分才能夠暫停預算的執行你們也根本沒有申請啊然後你們卻對張志倫委員說要凍結預算所以沒有辦法追加你們這個不是依法行政你們是欺騙啊你們是霸凌啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3505.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3523.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
按照你們的說法是不是現在立法院所有的九州案都毫無意義了呢因為沒有任何的法律效率更離譜的是你們是違法在先現在卻還敢裝自己是受害人二人限告狀請問一下你們有跟大法官承認你們少編進法補償的預算嗎有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3528.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3551.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我們提的事件有很多很多的理由啦你們沒有依法編足啊在立法院經法補償一公頃六萬塊是法律先通過的啊根本你們沒有依法編足啊你們眼裡面還有法律嗎再來你們報告說基金還有45億就在上週我在這裡所有的內政委員都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3552.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3571.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
原民會主委就說基金的現金只剩下14.6億他也說基金不夠 恐怕會影響所有的業務然後他更擔心的是基金破產好在本席提了一個拯救基金的法案 他也非常的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3572.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3586.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我相信國人都看得非常的清楚你們行政院對外是逢迎對內是傲慢對原住民是毫無重視連原民會的困境你們都視而不見 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3588.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3594.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
進訪補償到現在已經拖延了201天了行政院你們不僅僅是失職你們還企圖賴賬23點就9億元從哪裡領從哪裡領追加預算方式追加預算方式還有什麼方式你說你說一個 再說一個嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3613.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3634.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
您剛才提到的基金先撥補然後我們再撥補基金是一種方式基金只剩下多少啦你要讓基金破產嗎你要讓基金的錢都沒有用到別的地方去嗎不會破產不會你們行政院怎麼可以這麼二把這麼說謊明明的白紙黑字要用追加預算方式辦理你們卻不要你們這是違法亂紀我今天決定要再繼續凍結你們的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3647.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3663.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
好 請張志榮委員好 謝謝主席各位長官 各位委員 大家早有請龔明欣秘書長好 秦秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3667.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3696.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
張委員早秘書長早首先還是要請教秘書長其實現在不管朝野的委員非常重視地方首長非常重視現在行政院把地方的一般性補助款給刪減這是地方的救命錢首先還是要跟秘書長報告立法院在114年度的通商決議案裡面他有寫說各項的項目要刪除特別民事要排除法律的義務支出所以一般性補助款不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3697.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3716.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
在這次行政院刪除的對象裡面而且這次行政院把直轄市跟各縣市一般補助款的科目扣減了百分之將近27.3%用來彌補差額這個本席非常的遺憾因為這是要苦地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3717.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3744.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那這是刪減了一些的衝擊包含一些教育補助、社會福利補助以及基本建設補助包含了兒少、婦女、長者、身心障礙者的福利都會受到影響尤其大家也非常關心行人安全、行道道路改善以及維護可能未來都會受到影響那我必須要跟秘書長講新北市有400多萬人全台灣最多人的地方行政跟建設的支出負擔沉重 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3745.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3774.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
中央這次減少27.3%的一般性補助款新北市少了30億今年的預算比去年還要少會影響到教育、社福跟景蕭的建設預算讓地方政府沒有辦法落實到照顧民眾的責任所以想要先請教秘書長請問這個我們當時的通山明明就已經有特別明示要排除法律義務支出了那請教秘書長一般補助款在您認為是不是法律義務支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3775.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3798.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
報告委員我的想法跟你一樣也覺得這件事情非常遺憾但是當這個中央總預算三讀通過的時候事實上行政院就第一時間就表達了你有來協商啊你有來協商要我們自己刪636億當時有人請你趕快回去啊不是就是要我們自行刪減636億這麼額度大的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3801.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3818.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這是過去從沒有的是不是請秘書長回應我們要就法律面來自立法院你認為一般性補助款是不是法律義務支出據我了解它不是法律義務支出那我是不是請今天有來主計處的人嗎來請主計處因為我之前在那個主計長當時在 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3827.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3846.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這個113年12月30號的時候那時候主計長有說這個114年的中央政府總預算稅出編列3兆1325億元而立依法其中依法法律預務項目包含各式人士各項機關人士費社會保險跟退府支出1兆8000多億元占58%均無法刪減這當時是這個主計長所提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3853.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3858.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那就您而言你認為一般性補助款是不是法律法定義務支出來請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3860.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3883.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
跟委員報告這個我們當初講的依法律支出其實是在我們在審預算的時候的過程當中先回應你覺得是不是在這個法律裡面是地制法跟財化法裡面是有規定說中央對財力較差的地方政府要給予卓於補助那所以他的法律確然有規定要補支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3884.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3911.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
可是它的補助的沒有補助的標準跟數額對 它已經預算書上寫要補助多少錢地方政府也在花了請問這是不是法定一物之出來 請你回答法律的規定要多於補助可是就是說沒有規定說它編列的數額是要多少所以在大院那份法已經預算書上都有寫了現在是刪除了已經有刪除這些的預算了我只是請教你一般補助款是不是法定一物之出可不可以回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3912.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3927.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
他是我們在審預算過程當中我們在分類分四大類裡面我們為了審查預算我們有揮了一個叫依法律義務支出的一個所以你有回答是法律義務支出嗎是不是對是在審查預算過程當中好謝謝謝謝好所以秘書長好請秘書長所以秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3931.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3951.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這個可能還是要跟你報告一下這就是法律義務之初依法不能來刪減所以請這個行政院好好去想一想是不是應該要來做這樣子的事那最後這個有關於這個議題我來請教一下卓榮派院長說地方政府可以用稅計剩餘來去補這個刪除的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3952.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3979.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
可是地方首長也說很多縣市像新北市為例他現在沒有設計剩餘是還背負著非常多的累積虧損所以這個方法不可用那所以我要再請教一下現在很多地方首長非常不能建議我們全台灣的地方首長都非常不能接受這樣的做法有些首長提出將以提出溯源變跟中央追償這樣子的費用請問秘書長你有什麼看法是不是你有想說應該要懸崖勒馬來請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3981.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4009.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
法委員我剛才提到的就是說當這個三讀通過的時候我們覺得自愛難行我們提出複議然後也被否決然後現在提出否決你也照當時你來政黨寫上的時候是誰否決你啊好請繼續那就是說我們按照立法院的決議就是自行調整這個636億那我們在這個自愛難行的情況下現在的方法那自愛難行你有沒有考慮說當時你內心有想法有沒有考慮要追加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4011.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4034.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
還是你就是想說要刪地方補助款我們已經提出付益跟市縣相關問題你有沒有想說要追加預算過 民主黨有嗎你當時來不是想要你當時來政黨協商的時候不是想要討論說追加預算嗎那為什麼現在決定要刪地方補助款你的心境是什麼轉變就算追加預算也要行政院跟立法院有相互的溝通好所以行政院當時是想要追加預算 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4036.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4040.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
這個我已經沒有忘記了還是害怕想起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4042.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4071.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
好謝謝秘書長那我知道就希望說行政院還是要好好來有一些更好的解決方式啦好那第二個我要想問一下行政院過去的霸凌案去年不管勞動部跟行政院都有霸凌案那當時有三行政院我記得有三大霸凌案包含這個消保處公關處以及當時秘書處都有霸凌案那秘書處當時因為有來跟我解釋所以我相信現在沒有在調查中那我想然後公關處的部分因為處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4072.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4097.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
現在因為身體不適也調離職位那我想要請教有關於消保處跟公關處的部分現在調查情況如何因為當時我相信已經從年初到現在已經五個月了我們現在沒有看到任何的結果我需要說霸凌是要零容忍的是不是可以簡單講一下說為什麼關於這些霸凌案現在都沒有相關的調查結果來 請回答總共有四件 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4098.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4116.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那其中一件成立,其他三件沒有成立啊?沒錯,就三件霸凌案嘛三件抓過來,我請那個...好,謝謝跟委員報告齁,剛剛你講到消保處跟公關處的部分,我們從去年到今年一共只有四件霸凌案那霸凌案其實我們全部都已經處理完畢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4119.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4126.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
然後呢,有三件案子他們都沒有提出申訴,只有一件,霸凌不成立案子,現在在提到保訊會的再申訴您是說沒有調查的反而提出申訴,三件有成立的不是,我們全部調查完畢,也提到我們的審議委員會裡面的,已經確定了已經確定了,那資料? |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4143.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4158.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
好 我們事後再提供給服務員好 謝謝最後還有一件有關於地方建設請秘書長回答我們中和有一個國道3號中和交流道的改善工程你知道這件事嗎14.9億的計畫這個計畫在去年的113年4月3號可行性評估就已經出爐了也核准了 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4164.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4192.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
然後高空局在7月31號的時候建設計畫也送交到交通部那交通部在9月25號將本計畫交給行政院審查那國發會在113年的1月5號也送給行政院來審查意見結果本席在12月10號發函請行政院看說什麼時候可以核定因為當時我有質詢的時候有拜託不管是陳建仁院長或是左榮泰院長他們都回應我尤其是左榮泰院長回應我說在12月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4192.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4217.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
可以合定 計數合定可是本席在12月10號發文只有得到一張公文說計數審查完成結果在今年的5月19再次發文回了我一模一樣內容一模一樣一字未改的文也說將計數完成那我要跟秘書講講說這個說的話 說到的話要算數我希望行政院可以加速整個期程那本席這邊 我不知道今天有沒有這個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4218.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4241.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
當時有個表也提出來說這工程規劃當時預計到達要完成的時間是在今年的上半年大概四月份左右現在已經五月份了已經延期了所以我希望說行政院秘書長這邊不要發給我永遠都是同樣的公文沒有任何的內容然後企圖說對地方的建設好像有所阻擋我覺得這是非常不好的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4241.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4264.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那要跟秘書長再快速報告一下其實工程規劃跟設計作業是可以加速進行的尤其現在已經拖到設計作業的時間了會讓整個尤其建築師設計過的時間會縮短這對地方的建設非常的不利這也跟行政院院長當時說要積極來處理是違背的是不是請秘書長回答是不是現在行政院這是什麼樣的原因我想先聽聽看你的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4265.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4290.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我想我們會按照那個回覆的文裡面兩次回覆都一模一樣的內容這都是你的章欸 你的章 關印欸你有看到這個內容嗎可以半年四個月回一樣的內容 一個字都沒有改我們盡速來辦所以要拜託藝術長你要盡速來辦因為我這邊是有收到舉報啊說有人在故意在擋這樣子的地方建設的東西啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4291.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4307.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我今天不先把人民給透露出來我希望秘書長回去現在都已經承諾了事情而且這個設計款大概才兩千多萬是一個不要去擋地方的建設就是說我們當然是需要說這個地方建設不分政黨大家一起來努力好不好好謝謝好我們請蔓越江委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4323.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4327.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
主席好 有請公民署長好 請民主署長麥委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4334.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4352.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我們今天執行就是為替全台22個縣市廣大基層的民眾討回公道你們把立法院刪除的636億元全數轉嫁到地方政府的一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4353.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4358.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
全台灣22個縣市補助款一例被砍了25%以上一個都沒有放過立法院刪除的是中央政府及所屬機關的預算沒動地方補助款半毛錢是你們行政院一花接木把中央部會的該砍的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4381.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4386.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
因塞給地方請問秘書長這是執政黨實施的方針嗎用我們總召的話來說這是什麼無法無天的土匪行徑濫用職權行政院到處放話說都是應該是執政黨害的才對 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4406.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4412.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
搞得朝野對立 南北分裂苗栗縣被砍了28.1億 財政已經快喘不過氣來雲林縣又砍了37.6億 刪除讓我們的農水路還有交通全部卡關 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4432.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4436.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
基隆市被砍了24.3億只能停辦煙火活動請教一下你們是想讓地方建設就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4446.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4449.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
這樣子斷吹嗎讓基層民眾吞苦水就無法活下去行政院不是沒錢是不願意負責最會招搖的吳士堯委員說是立法院刪除了939億行政院才沒辦法請問立法院刪除的是你們中央自己的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4473.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4477.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
誰叫你們把這個責任丟給地方呢這不是你們第一次這樣操作過去在立法院刪除中央的預算時我們內政部長也是這樣子威脅我們的人民說什麼豬補助發不出來現在又一樣就是故知重施拿我們長期長照就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4499.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4523.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
学校的农路的这些基层最有感的项目来威胁这不是预算的调整这是政治的啰嗦去年中央部会文宣创新高参与参参参理费还有业务费更是年年就是一直在提升人少了但是呢服务也少了但是业务费都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4525.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4527.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
創新高為什麼不從這些地方來去刪除偏偏就是要砍掉我們地方的救命錢所以這個部分我們請我們的秘書長回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4544.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4561.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
其實所有的施政已經是依法行政所以當大院通過了三讀預算的時候我們這第一時間就表達說會有自愛難行之處尤其這個636億因為過去沒有這麼大額的要自行刪減這是沒有辦法處理的事情所以我們也提出複議 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4563.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4585.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
但是我們明確的講,明確我們是刪除中央的我們地方一毛都不刪,但是我們中央部會呢自己的吃喝玩樂的,就是沒有去刪就是偏偏要去刪人民需要的地方行政院的業務費被你們刪減的非常非常之多 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4588.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4614.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
今年是創新高人也沒有服務那麼多我們人民人越來越少但是你們的經費越來越高總預算提案表白就是提案就是白紙黑字三的是中央及機關及所屬才化法第30條修法後也明定中央政府給予地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4615.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4634.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
政府的一般性補助款金額不得少於修正實前前的一年的預算變略數中央補助地方法規第十二十三條跟規定中央政府也不得任意 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4634.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4650.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
三减地方的补助款秘书长你们统三的补助款让苗栗云林基隆还有各县市地方已经陷入财政危机你觉得是否有违法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4653.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4660.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
沒有 我們一定會幫忙 地方如果有任何需要 中央一定會幫忙但是我剛才提到的這個636億 我們要依三讀大院的這個三讀預算 我們來辦理你說三讀預算來辦理 但是剛才你又說什麼我們三讀通過 你自愛難行對 自愛難行黑白都是你說的 這一款 這一些補租款 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4679.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4694.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
就是大喊你們不是你們大喊地方喔但是你們呢不是先協商也不是先溝通而是就是在四月底匆匆忙忙發一個喊一通 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4695.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4700.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
一直就是通知地方說5月起就直接扣款這是哪一個國家的行政程序啊這是動作根本就是先砍再說這樣子在正常治理國家嗎而且你們就是程序正當性嗎完全是就是全砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4716.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4721.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
就是這樣子的各縣市經費不夠行政院你知道嗎所以說還有根本都不在乎我們地方的苦還有你們就是有進行的這樣子的影響評估嗎為什麼這樣子胡來是認為說不用對我們的人民交代嗎還有說我們民進黨全面執政時呢在2024年指三地方補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4744.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4745.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
款只有4%現在呢在野黨監督就卻大砍了27.3%這什麼標準啊雙標嘛這是你們地方政府這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4759.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4778.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這就是讓我們地方政府要有心理準備 這個是某什麼傲慢的邏輯啊 方向通知 方向通知沒有達到共識啊這樣的結果就顯示出當初大筆一揮 刪掉了939億 那個是不適當的 才會造成今天的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4779.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4782.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這個是你拿人民的血汗錢來去砍我們砍的是中央吃喝玩樂對不對但是我們最反感的是說你們高高招商就像現在那種態度所以呢我們行政院三讀通過你也說通過了三讀通過依法行政但是你們要無視立法院的決議還繼續違法扣款 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4805.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4822.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這樣何時補足 何時補助當然我們要追查嘛 追問嘛為什麼要提出臨時動議就是因為我們已經三讀通過也要依法行政你也講依法行政 但是還是沒有依法行政所以今天才要提出這樣的預算我們覺得啦 我們就是政府這樣子的一個一個間接的規劃 從規劃預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4832.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4835.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
從規劃預算到審查預算到現在為止我們看到的是你挖一個陷阱挖一個就是擺明就是把民眾地方的民眾來開刀寥寥幾章就會想說預算過去但是地方呢申請呢都要花很多時間這不是預算上的問題而是制度以態度的錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4860.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4862.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
行政院不僅是選擇最讓基層的人民遭殃還一再的錯誤的代價丟給地方甩鍋再也打這種政治操作真的讓人民讓基層要做事的人真的是很難過民眾要的不是政治口水不是你們在這樣子的時間一直在講這些事情但是你們這個變成一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4888.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4908.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
陰謀的一個設計讓我們地方政府受苦就是你們一開始就要這樣子了我們不介紹行政機關讓人民為你們的籌碼更不容忍中央對地方的財政霸凌這個是我們嚴重的抗議對我們行政院還有秘書長希望我們今天的預算我們也不同意通過謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4918.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4921.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
好 我們請王美惠委員主席主席 我們現在閉嘴好 請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4937.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4943.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
王委員好 秘書長早 今天我們要凍結行政院裡面 你有說到幾項重要性第一項是國藥 裡面有很多補貼 希望國境做得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4956.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4962.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這是對於原住民的照顧 我覺得每一個人都可以看出你們的年金要怎麼去完成這是最重要的 第二是在你們的政府裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4975.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4980.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
它當時的70%剛才你說的說中間到差不多五月底的時候你們就支出差不多中間要30%因為你剛才說的說五月十五到26%多嘛到五月底可能就都很沒錢了在這裡面我要請問秘書長在這個過程我覺得說當時的今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5006.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5009.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
想要當一個可以說冠軍在30%以後,可以有錢當傭但是在這個過程,不知道是你們故意還是想不夠因為你看前一星期,大家完結為了地方一般的步驟看,跟今天說要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5030.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5034.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
解凍你們行政院的時候,我認為對你們認真抱怨的人有一點不知道是你們故意還是什麼,也說把這裡凍了之後,還來宣佈說要怎麼來處理,跟大家坐著來參詳 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5050.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5054.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
像這樣今天如果沒辦法做的時候,剛才你所說的說一定沒錢,這樣這個30%以後要怎麼處理來,秘書長你講一下報告委員,就是說剛剛特別提到的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5068.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5087.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
百分之三十,我們大概到五月底就會達到百分之三十對,我知道,未來要怎樣如果沒有過,要怎樣處理,這是重要的,快樂的至少是不是給我們部分的解凍,如果大院還有疑慮的話至少多少讓你們可以有資助,如果沒有的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5091.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5109.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
他們都不愛你,你要怎麼做,就不要做了,把你囂張,你很漂亮,坐在那裡喝茶,這樣而已,不喝就沒錢了這個業務的推展一定會受到阻礙,阻礙秘書長為什麼我還要說這樣,你可不可以知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5110.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5121.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
因為我們鄉長會在南部的北省,他們家人行政服務中心在這個規定33的時候,他們的業務費399%啦對一個家人來說,要給什麼啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5135.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5154.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
現在對著南部人的時候,要辦事情非常不方便中央的政府才想到說,我們是不是來用一個印加人的服務中心來服務南部人結果你看山的人,有良心嗎?他想要山想要山,在大議會的時候,山他不知道山什麼不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5166.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5168.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
山南不夠井湯那靠啦這實在有夠陷的啦陷多多啦所以說在這裡彼此中本是要自己探討說這是有贏還是有沒有不對但是在你形容說我們高雄不可以選要補助農民的不可以選 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5193.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5201.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
因為我們國防院要保護國家嘛 所以不能刪在這個過程當中 你也很堅固的去刪掉一般補助的結果在地方來說 像我的家裡我家裡是一個夢幻森 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5214.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5221.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
在武漢省裡面,你雄雄來說,最緊要省十八億對一個家庭來講,它也有困難所以我們再說回來,有困難的當中當時在那裡省,比說什麼人省那麼多的時候,才有夢到良心中央要怎麼做?中央要如何配合他們的建設? |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5243.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5254.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
社會公來公去,什麼人受惡劣在代言會,在那扇來扇去不知道要扇對一條的人,扇到火的一角謝委員,事實上我們就是照 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5263.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5270.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
至少中央政府對於地方上的協助是不遺餘力的所以為什麼我們會編...因為你也有說到說苗栗的時候如果有困難的時候跟你來協助你跟在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5279.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5285.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
不像你那天苗栗說的苗栗他出來宣佈說我們現在的薪水沒辦法賺沒辦法賺還是這樣說的不像中央那天他再來昏暗說出什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5298.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5304.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
真的聽到很脾氣,當時是他們在議會選的時候,他們都沒想到中央需要補助的地方要這麼多人,像大家說的說,我們搞不好社會行為也要補助,照顧也要補助,教育也要補助,是怎樣的事,當時在選的時候沒想到, |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5324.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5331.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
又來釣人自省山,六八三十六年的時候,只有省這群人,還在那邊寬氣寬鬥,夠自由行的,實在我今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5340.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5358.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
真的對於地方來說 你說苗栗可以補助 家庭是一個模範學生你可有想到他那年生 那年生幾歲 我們的中央 你要如何去協助我們身為家庭的一份主 我也需要地方的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5366.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5374.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
十八月的時候,又應用多少所以當時是要三月二月,兩心無齋好,請裡面議員謝謝,有請拱主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5397.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5423.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
請祕書長喔 對不起 請孔祕書長因為很早謝謝喔 孔書會以前在負責國家的經濟項目那這一...這一...我從去年來這裡以後齁覺得所有的部會齁祕書長最無辜啦我怎麼說你無辜呢我們內政委員會上一個預算會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5425.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5453.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
一直要排審行政院的預算的時候一直遇到中國國民黨一直安排選罷法甚至在行政院預算要審的前一天我們這裡戒嚴啊整個內政委員會這一邊的門被封起來走道被封起來包含張昭偉包含黃婕委員、汪美惠委員、蘇角惠委員還有我李柏毅我們都進不來 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5454.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5481.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
內政委員會審選罷法用九十幾秒通過這個選罷法加嚴的選罷法隔天要確認議事錄隔天也就是要審議行政院的預算主委你是不是呆坐了一整天沒有辦法上台從早上我大概將近九點八點多就來了一直到下午所以當天後來沒有辦法開會為什麼今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5483.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5501.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
為什麼今天我們還有解凍案啊所以跟所有的其他的部會預算都一樣其實這一個行政院的目前這個民主黨你這個預算裡面根本內政委員會沒有審過直接在院會裡面做刪跟凍對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5503.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5515.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
所以秘書長我說你無辜冤枉就是你根本就沒有機會在這邊捍衛過在內政委員會捍衛過行政院的任何一毛預算但是就被刪了這麼多就被凍了這麼多秘書長給你一分鐘趕快來對刪跟凍做一個解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5522.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5542.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
所以說非常可惜就是那時候在審預算的時候後來因為種種的原因沒有辦法針對預算來做討論然後後來是全案的保留然後送到院會去院會我想各位各黨團他們有他們的考量然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5543.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5571.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
也沒有溝通的機會沒有溝通完全沒有溝通的機會三天院會只有處理三天的政黨協商而且完全沒有涉及到任何的內容就刪了那麼多的預算也動了那麼多的預算所以今天我們很希望可以在這邊來解凍相關的預算讓行政院可以繼續運作我唯一比較有印象的就是在委員個別提案裡面今天處理兩個啦第一個就是統三 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5572.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5584.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
通山的這個939億裡面他有列的裡面他列的他只列到300多億嘛其他還有636億叫行政院自行處理嘛行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5589.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5604.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
請行政院另予補足到939億嘛第二個其實還有什麼還有它裡面有列案要刪除包含行政院的各個服務中心包含南部服務中心南部服務中心的業務費被刪除99% |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5608.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5633.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
山竹99%去到南福恰公的人都有感第一個 冷氣調高兩度先等第二個 電梯關掉一台先等第三個 沒有錢買衛生紙你來南福恰公的時候你千萬不要跑廁所你跑廁所你千萬記得一定要帶衛生紙這個是有感的部分傷害到的是誰 傷害到還是我們恰公的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5634.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5648.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那目前這一個636億裡面影響到各縣市政府的我來講一下行政院為什麼沒有辦法刪國防經費能不能刪撥補勞保基金能不能刪撥補住宅基金能不能刪租金補貼住宅基金能不能刪 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5661.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5669.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
農發農損333億能不能刪公共建設計畫2509億能不能刪刪了我翻臉刪了影響到高雄的地方建設刪了影響到捷運直線刪了影響到鐵路立體化能不能刪 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5679.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5700.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
台灣最重要的科技發展計畫目前包含人工智慧1396億能不能刪政府的基本維持運作7000多億能不能刪好全部都不能刪之後現在這636億也刪到高雄的一般補助款所以其實冤有頭債有主誰刪的誰負責藍白負責謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5710.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5711.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我們請黃婕蕙委員好 謝謝主席 我們請秘書長請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5730.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5736.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
好秘書長早喔這幾天大家都在討論這個一般性補助跟行政院的關係說要來杯葛你們說你們亂砍了他們的預算我還是再次請教喔請問秘書長這個預算到底是誰砍的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5745.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5772.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
立法院的決議啊當然在立法院院會裡面通過的當然主要應該贊成的都是藍白的立法委員是嘛秘書長也知道嘛你們很努力的想要挽回這一筆預算跟我們立法院說不要亂砍這個砍下去傷害到的是全台的人民當時你們還苦口婆心苦口婆心的一個一個勸就算了你們也提出復議了該表達的都表達了結果立法院最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5774.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5778.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
亂刪了一個900多億最後說636億要我們行政院自行去補足然後自行調科目那我看了這個要怎麼調科目啊因為他們現在就是問你拿著一把刀問你說你要砍左手還是要砍右手啊砍下去都是他們的錯啊砍下去人民都痛啊我剛剛看了一下這個其實你們這個政院的這筆預算喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5802.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5818.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
有勞保啦 有住宅基金啦 農發基金啦 農損基金啦打架的 防災的經費啦 還有最重要的國防預算啦也就是說如果現在我們要挑一個項目 請問這些項目可以挑嗎那個都沒有辦法挑 所以我們才在自然難行之下提出這個我們也不願意的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5830.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5851.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這是真的很無奈啦 怎麼說很無奈 我知道行政院很為難我剛剛講的這幾個項目 沒有一個人敢做這個決定說你敢去砍國防預算啊萬一如果我們砍了國防預算 是不是藍白又要來說你看我們的政府不支持國防 沒有要捍衛自身的決心了所以國防預算絕對不能砍嘛 勞保可以砍嗎 不能砍嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5854.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5857.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
農損可以砍嗎也不能砍嗎對農民的照顧這些都很重要打架更不用說了也都是大家都認為非常重要的一筆經費所以這樣看來看去沒有一筆是可以砍的那等於是怎麼樣都是要逼你們做壞人嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5869.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5893.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
所以我認為這個對鎮員來說真的很為難但其實最老實說啦最無奈最委屈的莫過於我們南部縣市因為其實我們南部縣市過去也本來就是因為財政體質不好所以其實中央也都是利用一般性補助的方式讓我們南部的縣市可以透過一般性的補助可以拿到一些至少不要財政上這麼困難結果這樣子一般性補助一刀劃下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5895.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5905.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
砍的最重的就是我們南高坪尤其是我們高雄市八個委員在立法院全力捍衛預算這麼努力的幫行政院捍衛但結果最後因為這個藍白的二手砍下去的結果受傷最重的卻是我們高雄市那我在這邊也覺得很委屈啦還是希望說希望明年如果藍白願意回頭了 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5919.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5946.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
如果藍白願意妥協願意道歉了那我們趕快重新把這個預算補足不要讓我們南部的縣市成為最大的這個冤大頭喔我認為是真的非常的委屈啦在這邊也讓政院知道說我已經從上禮拜到這禮拜我已經接到非常多我們高雄市的鄉親跟我哭訴說哇怎麼這個砍下去我們高雄市這麼支持我們行政院的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5947.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5958.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這麼支持我們國家政府的財政的結構也支持財政健全都不支持這樣子他們亂砍預算的結果最後受害的是我們南部我這個還是要在這邊幫我們南部的鄉親來表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5962.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5977.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
好最後一點時間我要來跟這個秘書長請教一下我們職場霸凌匿名通報的事情因為我知道說從去年這個勞動部的事情發生之後我們行政院其實動作也很快馬上處理了一個霸凌通報的申訴平台可以上線了 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5978.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5995.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那到现在看起来也是有一些案件都有列管追踪但是我想要讲的是其实有很多民众跟我反映他们希望还是有一个匿名通报的选项因为他们当然会担心被报复或者是说在这个职场的环境里面有一些压力所以如果能匿名通报是最好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5996.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6025.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那當然有民眾也有發現說其實在網頁裡面如果你用一個這個公務人員人事服務網的帳號的方式可以技術性的匿名通報所以我在這邊是想要建議說是不是就有一個方式是讓他們可以直接匿名通報如果已經在這個職場上面有遭受到霸凌的情況或者是他們有一些壓力想要藉此來讓自己受到保護的情況下可以反映這個霸凌的案件是不是可以有這樣的管道呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6027.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6054.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們並不是說如果匿名的話我們就完全丟掉不管不是他如果描述的內容非常明確的話比如說某一個人他怎麼樣怎麼樣的話也會去了解跟調查如果真的有這樣的形式的話也是會處理的除非說他又匿名然後又沒有指明什麼樣的情況就是不夠明確的話不好調查我們沒有辦法調查最重要的是能不能調查如果可以調查我們就會啟動調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6055.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6071.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
好那這就是我想要拜託啦那當然我認為這個霸凌通報的申訴平台要持續運作然後也希望你們可以實質的列管追蹤讓這個如果真的有受到任何不平的民眾都可以受到你們的保障好嗎是好那張嵐 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6072.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6095.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
在這邊最後我也講一點啦其實剛剛最後秘書長也有提到你們性平業務的部分我在這邊是希望可以督促你們性平業務的督導因為大家也知道說最近其實台灣各地都還是有發生一些性平的事件最近最著名的就是這個金門京城國中的一個老師他命題的內容真的不堪入目我一個字都不想再看 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6095.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6122.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那這個案件當然是屬於教育部的業館那當然我希望性平竟然是我們政府非常重要的一個政策我也知道性平處很努力那這樣方面的業務督導我們是不是也可以把我們這些正確的性平觀念可以佈局到所有的政府機關裡面會會我們會透過性平處跟各部會在讓他們理解跟了解這個必須要的這個性平的注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6124.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6133.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那因為我是認為說這一次他們學校的懲處其實是非常不夠的包括說這個老師的嚴刑已經這麼嚴重了結果他只有停聘六個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6134.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6159.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
他的懲處就是挺聘六個月而已我相信大家看了都會覺得這個對於一個在提升性平意識的做法都是不足夠的所以我是希望說政院這邊也要拿出我們政府的態度我們對於性平的重視那是包括說剛剛其實祕書長也有提到我們現在的一些重點的性平業務嘛是不是可以再跟大家報告一下我們接下來重點的做法好,我是不是請那個,是不是處長好,請處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6162.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6182.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
谢谢委员那性平处这边就是我们有性别评点真的是纲领那每四年呢我们都有重要的性别推动的计划重点那今年呢114年已经上一期的最后一年那所以我们会研发下一个年度的四年的一个重点的计划那包括在角色参与 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6182.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6208.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
提升女性经济力还有性别歧视的这个部分的一个消除那还有就是在这个人身安全的这个性别平等的一个我们有个国家的行动计划那这个都是我们未来一个很重要的一个推动的方向那歧视的这一块确实是一个很需要在全面性的一个性别平等意识提升的这个部分所以也是我们未来很重要的一个推动方向好这个要拜托然后也希望你们定一些政策的时候可以更细致 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6209.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6213.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這個是一定要的好嗎好這個拜託處長好謝謝秘書長好謝謝那再來我們請張宏祿召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6249.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6258.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我先請拱秘書長還有我們的主計處處長好 請秘書長跟主計處處長我想先請問一下我們主計處的呂處長我們在編預算的裡面有法定支出是不是有法定支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6279.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6297.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這個名詞有有嘛那有法定預算嗎有法定預算都有嘛對不對所以剛剛大家一直在講什麼法定預算什麼什麼都不能動不能砍是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6301.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6325.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
法律支出跟法定預算是不一樣的法定預算是我們整個預算在行政院送到立法院叫預算案預算案審查通過就是我們院通過以後總統公佈以後叫法定預算法律支出就是我們在預算的編列的時候有一些編列的項目是有法律明定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6326.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6334.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那個叫法律支出比如說像人事費我們公務人員的那個人事費那所以法律支出呢我們行政組織總署也有一些定義但是呢就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6338.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6368.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
就是法律義務支出人事費法律上明定以外又編入預算所以是在規範它有一定的編制的標準跟編入預算是這個意思對啦所以我就請教啦應該有一個你的法定預算既然是法定預算了是已經公布了吧對不對是已經公布了那叫法定預算啊早上有很多人在講法定預算不能砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6370.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6393.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
公佈了啊他還有機會砍嗎法定預算就是措施性的法律就是總統公佈的法律我的意思是法定預算就是這個預算案已經定案了嘛就是多少了嘛已經核定了嘛總統也公佈了嘛在縣市可能縣市首長也都公佈我今年要花多少嘛對不對這個是不是才叫做法定預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6394.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6421.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
法定預算這個名詞是法律名詞預算法上的法律名詞對啦對是總統公佈以後的叫法定預算總統公佈以後那個法律名詞就叫做法定預算是不是是嘛對不對那我們在審預算的時候我們在審預算的時候應該有一些叫做法定的支出吧法定的義務支出法定的義務支出法律義務支出對嘛這個兩個是不同的概念吧不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6422.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6435.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
不同嘛對啊所以我剛剛一直在想一直在聽我一直覺得每個人都這樣講讓我搞混了所以我要請教請教你啊所以我的觀念才是對的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6437.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6461.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那是委員 是的 是的是啦齁 所以在那講整部報 講整齋有的很多人 甚至還有說要怎麼樣說什麼法定預算不能砍或什麼的我一直覺得很奇怪啦就我的認知 法定預算就已經公佈了當然你要砍你也沒得砍了啊 除了追加減可不可以請我們行政院主計總處他主管這邊齁 有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6463.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6480.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
不是啦就很清楚就是這樣了嘛對不對你除了追加減你才可能去動它了嘛不然你怎麼可能還會去動它我的意思就是說啊齁其實要來處理一個這個追加減或是我們今天要解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6481.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6504.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
其實不用有那麼多理由啦要合理的預算我們就支持嘛啊不合理的當然要被凍結要被那個我覺得這個就是一個最基本的原則我覺得是這樣吧祕書長是不是這樣蛤沒有你說啦是啦齁啊所以啊其實原則就是在這裡而已啊對不對齁我認為啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6508.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6534.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
行政院今天我們來處理這個解凍案你們業務費什麼撐不下去的或什麼的你們要勇敢大聲的說出來啊你們如果不說誰知道啊對不對連剛剛大家在講那些都講的我跟你講全國人民齁沒有多少人聽得懂你們法定預算法定義務支出什麼什麼沒有什麼啦但你們現在就撐不下去了吧水電費繳不繳得出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6538.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6567.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
不是 我叫你要大聲講 你們還都不講過去一直準決啦 但是還是有他的時間性還是撐不久吧對啦 我覺得啦該說的就說啦 該爭取的就爭取嘛我們今天應該聚焦在這裡啦其他的也不用去說太多啦我覺得啦 等一下我們在那個時候你們就大聲講嘛 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6571.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6573.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
好 謝謝張宏祿教委的資訊再來我們請丁薛忠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6587.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6603.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
好 感謝主席 我剛才在等你久違才開始講好 這樣讓我們的秘書長休息一下我請我們的主計處旅處長跟我們行政院主計總處公務預算處的專門委員好 請兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6615.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6634.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
處長,地方公所的特殊單位是管政府,所以他們的分配款是由管政府分配給我們地方公所,對嗎?他們是在替我們地方公所做委員、服務的第一線,也替我們管政府來做到軍鄉鎮的一個發展的一個規劃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6639.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6641.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們婦女館政府 國管局政府 指數單位就是中央立法院 行政院 他們指數單位先行所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6655.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6671.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
他們都替我們行政院 當了解到地方的需求 了解地方需要建設 了解地方要如何專業 增加生意來向中央來照顧到地方的需求來向中央來建設經費 來替我們地方來建設還有 當我們這個統籌分配款 這也是過去一直以來就是都由中央來支付給我們縣市政府的 這也是正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6688.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6698.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
但這次的綜藝省裡面,我會記得當我們這個工作給我們地方的同儲分配款是一甲都沒有刪掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6702.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6725.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
報告委員主委總書這邊跟您說明一下就是在我國的這個政府的體系裡面來講的話中央政府跟地方政府都是獨立的公法人都是獨立有民選去運作的所以地方政府雲林縣政府他本來就要依照地方制度法去實施他的地方自治事項那地方自治事項該負擔的經費也要由雲林縣政府來負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6726.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6750.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那只是說有時候可能在地方政府在裁員上面有所困難的時候所以他需要中央來做協助所以中央在預算裡面會編列補助款所以補助款只是說是地方政府的事情那我中央在財政上給予資源那這個資源必須要看我中央的財政能力的狀況我可以支援到什麼狀況那理論上地方政府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6751.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6774.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
你這樣說我們政府收的稅金我們就可以自己留下來就好了是沒錯我們可以自己留下來我們不用上繳中央國庫吧如果再依照這個採訪法規定的地方稅當然是地方收地方去用沒錯只是裡面有一個同...貴等名的管理政府需要的我們的中央的分配款統籌分配款生意都當前陣子就都設定好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6776.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6791.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這跟委員報告這個統籌分配稅款它的設計上來講就是說在地方稅以外有一些稅務我們可能就是說必須要由這個這些稅務來統籌出來然後由財政部統籌分配給地方例如有個卓德稅今年給我們婚姻館政府的統籌分配款是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6799.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6826.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我跟委員報告這個統籌分配稅款是可能就是從所得稅提撥出來或會務稅跟這個土地政治稅提撥出來你建議區議會讓我們分明管政府是多少個統籌分配稅款是財政部負責它不編入我們中央政府的總預算不是我們主計處加不是 是財政部負責的我們主計處這邊是代行政院在處理這個一般性補助款的部分一般性補助款的部分好 這樣我就請我們基礎長 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6833.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6854.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
因為中央政府的預算裡面是不包含統籌分配因為統籌分配他是按照公式所以公式訂了以後該給多少財政部就直接撥給了地方政府那一定是有預計說明年要多少要給地方多少今年就要預計好還是今年就要規劃好的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6854.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6869.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
因為投資分配款基本上它有一個公式它等到相關的一些稅的結果出來按照那個公式就知道說每一個縣市可以分配多少不是這樣啦我們那一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6871.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6876.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我們中央政府要構造我們地方的這個同儲分配款喔其實那當今一年就都計算好了是啊是啊當今一年計算好了是啊我們今年,我們中央要給我們份量的同儲分配款,總共是一百三十七億是 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6887.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6894.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
一共三十七億啦對啊結果我們黨我們的這個中央政府我們整個的綜藝省我們將對這個統籌分配款將對在國際的綜藝省的股份我們一戶人都有去刪除到就是代表說可以順利讓我們中央教醫院一樣繼續構造我們地方的統籌分配款可以讓他們順利來執行到 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6916.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6921.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我們之前的一些學務甚至學歷也好結果今年我們婦人館政府,不要說婦人館政府而已啦全國的國管制,我們行政院主動申請27.3億元婦人館的薪金37億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6938.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6942.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
因為我知道這不是你決定的,我也是要讓你知道,我們分明是五級的相關,我們要基礎建設,我們要照顧到我們這裡福利的,我們要跟法官有聯盟的情緒,我們一個相關有辦法一個省37億人, |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6959.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6963.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這對我們婦人館長今年後半年來要來執行到我們公屋要來執行到社會福利這樣是要怎麼下去執行這樣可以這樣把我們關起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6971.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6977.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
包括委員說老實話我們也覺得非常無奈大體通常的939億你說那些3兆元以上通商不是每年才發生的通商是每一年都發生但是那個額度都很小很小我們有辦法自己去調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6990.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6995.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
但是今天16百多億這個是沒辦法調圓的我主席對到我們今天的行政院我們這個總議席的結帳案真的我們都很樂觀你看國國會都在結帳 國國會都在結帳我們有對到什麼困難有疑問大家再研究討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7009.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7018.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
對,我也是希望說,因為這經費對於行政單位來說是非常重要的,醫生對於行政單位來說真的是非常要緊的,所以我們知道醫生的重要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7026.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7049.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
還有我們會替中央政府想要預算的重要性還有我們地方管理政府的預算的重要性這個道理在哪裡?這個工程在哪裡?報告委員 事實上我們中央政府對於地方政府事實上是大力支持所以如果加上您剛才提到的統籌分配本一般補助還有計劃型補助事實上我們編列的預算是總共加起來是超過一兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7050.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7065.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那個都是要來支持地方的那但是因為我們中央政府的預算被砍那麼多的情況之下而且有這麼一大筆的六百多億必須要自行參選的情況之下這個說老實話是不如奈 這是統三的過分啊統三的過分啊 是啊 是啊我們秘書長在講統三的過分統三的就是939億啊 統三是有我們國國肥 全地國企業的基礎或是全地福建 或是從福建我們可以下去去參選 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7079.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7087.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
不是說統三,就是叫你們來統三管治政府的這個方法的樣子這樣我們管治政府再來後面的年度是要怎麼再繼續經營下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7093.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7103.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
因為我知道這件事不是秘書長你可以有辦法做決定,我還要推動政府歡迎給你們聽,不好意思又花了一兩分鐘的時間來,鄧委員剛才有把我們秘書長提起的高中的產業研修 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7113.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7118.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
一半十年的時候,我們秘書長在做政務委員兼國會主任,那時候是高中產業園區合併的時候我剛才在那裡,有一個院長跟我們的經濟局長有討論說盡快來推動高中產業園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7136.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7144.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
除了炸高中就要發電了炸高中就要發電在這30年你們合作管政府已經去招商都做好了都做好了產業也要進駐管政府也一直要開始在發表到我們這個產業園區的這個工程啊希望遇到一個選舉天災地變來一切天災天災平平全都不一樣的這個高中產業園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7165.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7172.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
現在變成那時候是九十幾個九十幾個做第一期當我們婦人館政府環境就可以馬上進行現在說要一兩百七十個開始進行推動我也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7182.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7190.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
支持啦 我也是支持啦 既然社會已經煮成功了 我也是支持我們現在一二七十個月下去推動 但是風勢風勢要怎麼加快 要怎麼讓我們電影的發展可以越快這就是要靠我們中央 我們行政院 我們經濟國 我們農業國來專利來幫我們協助啦 真正的 現在年輕人有機會越來越少 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7210.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7220.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
出外越多 當我們故鄉的靈考所越來越老年化 年輕人的感覺在故鄉沒有機會這也不是你們所看的 也不是我們所期待的我們要把地方發生的事情 要順便讓你們知道我們要替我們地方 跟我們中央做一個溝通的橋樑希望我們過這個橋 過到那邊 到那個時候 給你們的訊息希望你們可以給我們一個外遇的一個協助和答案 這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7240.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7242.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
謝謝主席,我們請民宿長 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7269.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7282.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
蘇仁好 秘書長好 秘書長我今天好像是第九個質詢嘛那前面您已經回答了八個人秘書長您上一次來這裡就行政院的預算就進行備詢的時候還記得是什麼時候嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7286.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7308.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
應該兩三個月嘛大概兩個多月之前我也忘記了好像很久了對但上一次的結果是什麼就行政院預算被大幅凍結甚至是刪除很多不然的話我們今天不用在這裡要來討論行政院預算解凍案吧對委員會全案保留到院會裡面被大幅的你知道行政院的預算被凍了多少刪了多少我們原來總共的預算是15億10億是人事費5億是業務費5億裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7313.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7327.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
被刪除了兩億五億裡面刪除了兩億然後凍結了五億就是今天要解凍的五億然後還有這個業務費他還要求剩下的這個百分之七十要先凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7329.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7353.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那你那時候有跟大家說跟這個國民黨和民眾黨的委員說這個會刪除的預算額度這麼高凍結的預算比例這麼高行政院會有至愛難行的部分下半年要怎麼做這些話你有講嗎沒有機會說明因為全案沒有討論實質討論啊你在外界有講嗎你在各個媒體上面啊或者有任何空間的時候你有講嗎有人聽嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7355.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7379.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我們有一再的說明那你剛剛啊這個今天時隔三個月之後又來站在這裡了剛剛聽到這個又是同樣當時凍結你預算刪除你預算的委員站在這裡講說行政院凍結刪除了地方縣市款的一般補助款這樣導致地方事務自愛難行你叫我們耳破耳默要怎麼做你的心情怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7383.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7404.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我心情我們的這個這個好像比這個還要更高這個兩邊好像這個如果把這個臉遮住換一下這個好像就是兩三個月前雙方的立場完全交換嘛這講的話一模一樣啊所以就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7405.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7434.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
沒有一個政府沒有一個公務員會扶編預算爛編預算到一個需要被砍掉百分之三十四十甚至超過一半以上的嘛沒有公務員會編這種預算啊如果一個公務員編出了這種會被立法部門抓到辮子抓到有問題而有正當理由刪除百分之五十六十七十以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7435.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7462.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
的行政部門的話那不管他是中央還是地方不管是哪一個政黨質詢那確實啊你如果被正當的刪有理由要被刪這麼多的話那你確實這個行政部門是有問題但你反過來講如果這是不正當不應該這樣刪除的話那這一個監督機關這樣子的腐爛刪除凍結超過一半以上的預算啊這不知道在做什麼啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7463.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7480.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
這例子這樣的監督有道理嗎這是站在立法監督機關應該要有的表現嗎這個今天到底這個到底不正字明嘛你就把今天站在這個質詢台上同一批委員三個月前的談話和今天的談話拿來對照一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7482.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7504.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
這不就是很清楚一個立法機關監督機關該做什麼表現該講什麼話他有沒有依以貫之完全一樣的道理啊不是這樣嗎這個民主黨你這個很想點頭啊但是又不好意思點頭因為怕頭點下去等一下不曉得行政院的預算可不可以被解凍是這樣嗎是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7507.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7524.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
因為照理來講就是說我們行政院編列的預算每一個每一個項目每一分錢基本上都有他要做的事情那當然大院立法院可以針對說他的必要性給你適當的刪除但是他不能說很大的一筆要我們自己去刪除這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7527.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7542.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
市長我覺得你應該試著用最白話的語言跟全國人民解釋我們今年你們編了明年的預算總數是多少3.1兆對不對那被這個在野黨委員藍白聯手煽動了多少2000億多一點2075億現在全國都知道這個2075的數字那在這個裡面他又要求你統三多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7556.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7582.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
統三九三九億統三九三九但是這個統三九三九他也找不出來要刪你的什麼項目他就說你把重複編列的符案編列的你自己去找啦你再刪一個六三六來啦這就是現在偉大的六三六這個數字嘛對不對好這個六三六你不知道要刪哪一塊啦請問你今天如果不是動一般的地方一般型的補助地方一般型補助那請問你要動哪一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7584.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7589.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
所以我們為什麼覺得很無奈就是在這裡這不然你就要動計劃型補助嗎這不然你要不要動法定義務支出要不要動公務員的薪水你就是買一塊餅就是這樣它就是一塊餅它就是一個人的身體要不你就砍左手要不你就砍右手要不你就砍右腳要不你就砍左腳反正總是要割一塊肉下來因為636實在太大塊了不知道要砍哪裡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7609.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7627.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
這不是指甲剪一剪這不是頭髮修一修這樣的問題而已這是要割下你一塊肉剁下你一隻手剁下你一隻腳所以你說如果當行政院當國家的整體預算被砍掉了這麼高額的話你整個人會失去的功能無法運作不是就是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7629.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7656.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那今天你說按照你這裡寫的其實很清楚啊我們在看到你這個在對媒體上面講的時候其實你講的很清楚啊你說你實在是負荷不了這個你實在是沒有辦法完成立法院的決議再去自行調整6361所以你找出了這樣子的一塊預算來然後呢你就按照立法院統三國家預算的態度把它統三27%嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7659.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7677.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
是不是老實說我作為地方的民意代表我們也很痛啊我們真的很痛啊因為當藍白委員在砍國家預算的時候那只是一個數字大家沒有感覺但是當這個數字少了總預算編列回到地方縣市政府的預算當然就少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7682.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7708.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
到地方政府的預算少了的時候你家旁邊的造橋 鋪路 水溝 電燈 教育 社會福利每一項都少了這就是跟人民切身相關的啊當藍白砍你的預算書數字的時候你沒有感覺當你家旁邊的水溝不通 路燈不亮當你的租金補貼沒有當你的育兒今天沒有的時候你就知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7709.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7722.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
對你的生活是非常有影響的而冤有頭債有主到底是誰砍的國家預算就是藍白委員啊今天怎麼還好意思在這裡跟大家講說行政院要砍這個預算當時我們抗爭了多久抗議了多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7725.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7739.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這到底是怎麼回事嘛所以行政院我真的覺得你今天就算就算這個今天等一下預算節都不順利你也還是應該要把整個邏輯講清楚國家的預算就是這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7740.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7756.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
國家的整體預算就是這麼多今天沒有動到一般型的補助也會動到其他的預算每一塊都是人民的痛每一塊都會痛所以今天的源頭就是藍白亂砍預算我們非常非常期待今天藍白委員可以盼然悔悟 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7763.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7779.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
正式反而他們不是行政院要對大家道歉啊是這些委員應該要到底為什麼之前會提這種案即便他現在來解凍坦白講很多也來不及了啦你知道很多在教育藝術文化的這些補助案 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7780.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7791.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
因為當時沒有成立沒有預算來開這些案所以後面的計畫也都開不了了啊所以這些影視從業工作人員藝人從業工作人員整年的工作都大亂了啊收入也銳減啊這難道不是影響嗎這個今天這樣解凍案解了以後說欸我把立行預算案解了 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7800.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7820.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
就OK了嗎工程的展延也已經展延了不要說別人那台電的補貼沒有下來我們電感地下化爭取了好久的所有的電感地下化每一頁都停住了那這個工期損失了三個月四個月算誰的這個是一句預算現在給你解凍了這樣就可以了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7821.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7832.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以今天本席真的是不吐不快那我覺得秘書長一向是比較溫和偏偏君子所以 抱歉今天沒有讓你多講話但是我講的話你應該都同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7833.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7850.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我是覺得秘書長我講的比較大家聽得懂今天就是看你要砍右手還是要砍左手還是要砍左腳還是砍右腳好啊不砍右手那接下來那你說嘛不然你就把六百六十三億吞回去就是這麼簡單好謝謝秘書長謝謝謝謝我們剛才蘇教會委員加徐宇臻委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7866.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7870.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
今天我聽到很多民進黨的委員都在講說藍白亂三預算這個就是一個謠言可以在我們的委員會造謠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7888.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7917.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
當秘書長你還說表示贊同我來幫你回復一下記憶在去年的12月18的時候我們在內政委員會要審查中央我們行政院的預算當時是徐欣委員擔任召委那當天早上因為民進黨委員不斷的杯葛議事導致委員會空轉一整天所以大概到了下午4點才議事恢復正常那召委也宣布恢復開會當時秘書長您也還在我們的委員會可是不曉得為什麼您接了一通神秘電話之後你就離開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7918.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7935.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那當時呢 我們覺得你這樣的一個行為其實是藐視國會 藐視我們委員會所以也有要求您要道歉 而且也要請您提出一個報告那當時您也有承諾說要提出報告不過到現在我們還沒有看到這個報告請民主黨說明這個報告現在在哪裡是提出的時候 我有提出來這個虛偽人在當召委的時候 我有提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7944.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7952.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
許委員在的時候當召委你有提出來你可以看一下我的這個凍結案你就可以知道我的凍結案就是要求你要提出報告那你有提出來嗎從那個時候到現在從來沒有一個行政院的任何一位不要說你貴為秘書長啦連下面隨便一位聯絡人也沒有找過我針對這個解凍案要說明或是提出報告都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7972.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7989.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
然後另外喔 因為我們就提出報告了有 我上面的 你看一下解凍案裡面有說你要提出報告喔所以您到現在還不曉得這個解凍案 您今天就要來解凍完全都沒有做準備啊 上面有說 而且您也承諾說要提出報告另外喔 再請教您就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7991.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8002.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我們在去年8月31號的時候我們通過了中華民國史上最高的2兆9248億的法定預算比113年還增加730億而行政院最近以落實財政紀律大砍地方性的補助27.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8013.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8027.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那也引發各縣市強烈的反彈那也很多縣市可能也會提告那請問行政院對外宣稱這些所謂的一般性補助款屬於得補助的性質並非強制性的支出可是我們根據中華民國憲法第147條的規定中央政府應該謀求地方經濟的均衡發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8033.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8046.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
也就是說行政院無故刪減地方補助不僅違反法律也是觸犯憲法我們看到立法院通過的這個統三的決議你請您看一下有一般性補助款嗎有一般性補助款嗎民主黨請您回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8054.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8078.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
在螢幕上這邊嗎對這個就是我們你們當時列出來的希望你們刪減的比例跟項目有一般性補助款嗎沒有沒有好不好你應該再來備詢之前就要了解清楚了結果你還要看半天才告訴我沒有第三項說要另於補足就是自行調整好他說如刪減數未達939億元那以這個比例是不是303億 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8082.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8100.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
好我們講的是總三減數喔那總三減數其實台電就1000億啦加上台電1000億不就1300多億了嗎其實就已經夠啦所以我不懂你們在糾結些什麼然後非要把它弄到一般性的補助款那個已經刪掉以後還要再我們刪額外補足636億 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8102.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8126.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那636億如果有困難的話你是不是可以也是追加預算為什麼可以用一般性補助款來我們可以看一下報告委員我們第一時間就說自愛男性您看一下所以為什麼提出不是好秘書長您說這個一般性補助款的話具有裁量權是得補助不是應補助對不對您這樣講嘛地質法還有這個財政發問法荒謬的來了請秘書長看一下主計總處的網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8128.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8156.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
您看一下喔114年度一般性補助款的編列情形表好我給您看一下內容您看一下這是主計總署所列出來的上頁主計總署所列出來的一般性補助編列情形表你們現在在網站上面還是寫著一般性的補助款是2501億元都沒有下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8158.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8182.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這是你們現在在主計總署的網站喔沒有下架所以我覺得你在玩兩面手法啊刪了還不敢跟證下架因為這是法律義務之初所以如果你刪了就是違法這是法律義務之初 再給你看好 是誰說是法律義務之初的你知道嗎是你們卓榮泰院長 請看下一頁我們看一下立法院第十一屆第二會期第一次會議議案的關係文書的第五項 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8184.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8200.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
依貴院審查111年度的中央政府總預算所決議案另附具114年度的中央政府總預算案編列依法義務支出明細表一份好下一頁您可以看到一般性補助款是不是義務支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8201.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8218.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
這是卓榮泰院長所發的這個公文所以這份公文是假的嗎這在我們立法院的關係文書上面一般性補助中央政府一定會補助地方政府但是法律義務支出沒有說一定要補多少法律義務支出可以刪減嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8221.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8248.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這個公然說謊嘛秘書長我覺得知錯能改我們一定會同意解凍但是你在那邊一直硬拗的話我覺得我們沒有辦法接受因為他明明就是法律一支出這也是你們卓榮泰院長卓榮泰院長發的這個立法院的關係文書所以這份公文是假的嗎我先問你這份關係文書是假的嗎有卓榮泰院長發出的我沒有叫你回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8249.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8261.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
民主黨 請問這份關係文書是假的嗎 總統太院長這個公文是假的嗎我不知道 我要再check一下什麼你不知道因為 因為要查證啊查證 好 那你要多久時間查證 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8263.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8284.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
難道我會拿一個假的文書來去告訴你嗎你好好查證這表示國會到這種地步我覺得秘書長你真的非常非常的失職這當然是你們這個行政院長卓榮泰所寫的關係文書而且下面的明細表還寫著一般性補助款是屬於法律義務支出所以請 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8285.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8312.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
秘書長不要再公然的說謊了因為其實我們地方上的這些政府他們真的很需要這個一般性的補助他們才能夠去做一些不管是社福還有一些教育類甚至一些基礎建設你現在無關的這個就減掉27.3%有些這個像不管是雲林還有一些比較窮的縣市苗栗甚至到了年底連員工的薪水都發不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8313.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8336.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那雲林來說的話他砍掉了27.3%他的社福他的這個各項的建設根本沒有辦法進行那你用這樣的一個方式捅散27.3%讓地方成為政治的犧牲品這樣子是非常非常說實在不僅違法而且是沒有人道的方式所以請秘書長要跟院長報告三思而後行趕快懸崖勒馬謝謝好我們請吳清明委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8353.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8356.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好 主席我們與會同仁 請我們行政院秘書長好 請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8364.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8378.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們從2024年就是去年12月20號在我們在野黨的三讀的裁劃法通過其實裁劃法通過我們中央就要提撥3753億異住於地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8384.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8405.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
那大量的增加我們中央的財政負擔其實我們在在預算案的我們在黨要求我們行政院自三六百三十六億那今天行政院除了迫於我們刪減的各部會的經費甚至還是一般的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8406.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8429.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
地方也要減少為25%那中央實際在我們地方的預租那是大幅有縮水但是以實際上我本席調出的資料中央在補助我們新北市我就以新北市114年新北市還補助了983億 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8432.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8456.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
扣除一般性的補助25%的30億仍然還比去年還多了69億這一點喔 民主黨你要對外說明啊六都都增加六都就是即便是扣掉這個25%以後事實上一般性補助還是比前一年還要增加對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8457.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8472.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這要對外說明啊不然大家都會誤解說中央這樣一下來的話對地方的補助款都大幅的縮水那我在這邊也要感謝我們行政院其實在新北市一些重大建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8474.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8487.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
比如在我的縣區 萬大縣萬大縣在本席這邊的資料我們就補助了172億那山陰縣也補助了185億那你看我的縣區還有一個市法園區也補助了170幾億那還有京城交流道 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8499.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8523.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
五十幾億其實總總齡齡加起來就超過在新北市並沒有壓縮但是我身為新北市的市民也是新北市的民意代表當然新北市還是需要很多經費還是要我們中央來挹注那希望說我們行政院還是秉持著說地方的發展地方的需要地方的百姓的訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8524.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8551.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們也是要站在北省的隔壁中央來預算原來我們原編的預算如果本來地方政府就有統籌分配稅款那另外如果加上一般型補助跟計劃型補助的話事實上總共這樣的金額加起來是超過一兆那這個也是就是說中央政府對地方政府是完全支持那現在是因為我們的636是額外增加出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8552.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8564.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
不曉得要怎麼去處理我們當初就是說自愛難行提出復議也沒有被接受所以我們現在提出了釋憲那在這種情況下我們還是因為三讀的決議就是要砍掉這個636 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8566.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8584.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我們就要想辦法去怎麼樣去滿足這個刪讀的決議那也跟地方政府說非常抱歉所以如果這樣的情況個別的這個地方政府有任何困難我們都會個別的協助那個別的協助你會不會覺得說我為什麼先刪掉以後再補助你不一樣因為我們要符合立法院的刪讀的決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8587.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8609.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以我在這邊的呼籲我們在野黨其實你又要馬耳好又要馬耳不吃草那不可能你行政單位你一些行政會你都刪除那受害的還是民眾所以我們未來還是要共同的來溝通因為我需要說大家共同接納共同研究重大事來處理這是全民的福氣來變形因為時間上的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8614.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8627.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
秘書長我上次跟你所提出的就是那個重機械的問題那重機械在五月份在我們內政部與交通部因為當初我也拜託秘書長來處理這件事來從頭來研究那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8631.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8645.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
整個現在的進度是怎樣它是可以分成短期跟中長期的處理方式短期就是交通部他已經這個交通設施的這個認定大概就是可以馬上來處理那另外我們當然是希望長期來講的話整個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8649.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8677.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
5月15號剛開完會就是有關於中長期的這個結果目前就是經過因為內政部要修正非都的管制規則那他需要有一個程序的東西那有一個要跨部會協調的部分5月15號已經完成那經過協調交換部這邊也願意配合所以這部分後續就是要確認交換程序發布事宜所以算是非常順利 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8679.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8698.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這樣喔好謝謝謝謝秘書長還是要請秘書長出面才能整合我們各部會啦那我再次的感謝那也拜託秘書長我們的相關單位時間上我們把它訂出來多久給我回報好不好好謝謝好我們請劉許廷召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8710.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8733.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
謝謝主席 共秘書長有請好 請秘書長秘書長早安先跟你討論一下預算的事情因為地方制度法69條1項怎麼寫的我可能要查一下法條的條文趕快 趕快 活力支援一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8742.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8762.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
地制法第六條的規定是各上級政府為謀地方均衡發展對於財力較差的地方政府應佐予補助所以這就是為什麼大家都會講所謂的一般性補助款是屬於法定義務支出的原因因為法定義務支出你怎麼去算就是有明確的法源講你應該要做什麼對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8764.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8774.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那你現在因為立法院的決議你要統三對不對然後你就說現在我們要拿一般性補助款來開檔這個是你們花了多長時間整理出來的最佳結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8775.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8796.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
授權統三就是你們要自己自行尊潔的概念嘛以往不管是國會的結構長什麼樣子誰執政誰在野都一樣所謂的授權統三不管金額大小其實就是以尊潔總開支作為核心戰略目標但是不希望傷筋動骨所以讓行政機關有一個調整的空間對不對這是我認知統三的意義嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8796.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8816.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
這個金額實在太大了這次金額很大所以我今天要問你嘛金額很大是一個客觀的問題這我們不反對但問題是你金額很大的時候你也有很多種方式可以來處理嘛請問你們整個行政院院本部針對這個統三這個燙手山芋你們提出了幾種方案你們跟大家說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8816.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8836.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
包委員我們當初第一個時間就提出說事實上他是真的是自愛難行所以為什麼提出復議我們就希望說立法院可以重新再思考這樣的問題如果在復議這個部分可以做處理的話我今天不是在問你提出了什麼救濟手段你一定想最差嘛就是說如果復議被立法院否決你還是要面對這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8837.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8852.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
但六百多億的那種三法你可以把所有各式各樣的統統統一遵截3%這是不是一種方法你可以盤點政府的各項計畫有哪些大型的專案晚兩年實施這兩年預算就遵截掉你是不是就可以遵截掉一大筆大筆的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8853.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8877.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
你是不是也可以思考也許部分的計劃型補助款重新思考分配的額度我的意思是講統三這件事情你其實你從行政機關的角度你本來就有很多的調度空間你說今天所有東西齊頭是是不是只要減3%不到大家結一說是不是也是一種方法那我就問嘛你行政院到底想出了幾種方法然後最後為什麼決定是砍一般型補助款請你給大家一個清楚的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8878.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8900.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
報告委員我想因為我們中央總預算送到立法院後來的提案是好幾千個案子那每一個案子都是有針對性的這個來做刪或動那這麼幾千個案子處理下情況之下就是要刪掉三百多億對啊我今天沒有在問你這個三百億我問你六百多億嘛我覺得就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8904.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8913.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
這麼嚴格的審查完以後表示說其他的部分都有必要而且應該要去做包括國防什麼我們沒有辦法去處理這樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8915.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8944.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
所以說老實話以我們來講也是非常的無奈你的意思是說各方面都是其他一毛都不能尊潔你行政院想做的是一毛都不能尊潔但地方都可以尊潔你意思是這樣嗎如果這個金額事實上是我們可以調控的話那當然沒有問題但是這個金額實在是太大了六百多億所以我才問嘛你們在內部討論的時候有幾種方案嘛你有沒有討論過幾種方案還是根本從頭到尾就沒有方案你第一時間就直接想到一般性補助管你把他幹掉就算了我們今天想釐清的是這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8945.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8969.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
當然是就是說最後我們還是要依照這個三讀的決議嘛你不要跟我跳針啊你到底有沒有別的方案嘛你有沒有討論過別的方案主席總署會說原理我不曉得他們有沒有想了很多案子但是跟行政院來討論的覺得這個還是不是最好的方法但是總是一個方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8972.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8984.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
報告委員就是說依照立法院審議刪減的數字就是總共要刪減2075億那這部分來講的話中央各機關其實已經大幅刪減了1439億那剩下636億這部分我們要再去立法院請我們自行刪減那我們在考慮的過程當中就考慮到說這裡面有 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8996.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9012.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
一些公共建設科技發展還有法律支出這些東西可能都必須要國防這些東西都必須要我講的是人事費那些東西啦那都必須要比較沒有再三減的空間所以就剩下機關專項的計畫跟基本運作的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9015.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9040.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那這一部分如果在扣掉國防以外其實剛剛提過各機關要刪那個1439億裡面在這裡面他們其實已經被大幅刪減了18.5億如果這636億再分攤到這個科目來講各機關的基本運作經費可能就必須要大幅刪減到29%左右所以說考量到這一些因素以外所以說因為一般性補助款也是我們總預算的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9041.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9059.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那補助款的概念就是中央在財政上有多少的餘裕然後我們看主要補助地方多少所以當初考量的部分就是說這一部分是只剩下這一部分有調印的一個空間所以說就去調整這個刪減這個一般性補助款以上說明我跟你講你現在做這樣子的一個政治決定對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9060.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9083.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
破壞的基本上是中央政府跟地方政府之間的互信關係嘛那是飲鴆止渴的一個概念嘛如果今天你真的講說很困難所以中央的部分做出了若干的尊潔實在暈不出來地方尊潔但受傷程度小一點你也經過了比較完整的權衡比如說相對財政弱勢的縣市政府我的補助三的比例比較少而不是一刀齊都是能砍那今天正義不會這麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9085.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9111.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
但今天你整個呈現出來端出來的菜就是非常粗糙嘛我今天就挑一個項目為了湊足六百多億我就一刀切也不管各個地方的發展需要也不管縣市政府的一個狀況跟努力你就這樣一刀切這真的是一個好的通商的模式嗎這當然人民自有公平啦大家後面這個題目還有的草大家就看著辦吧另外待會我們要討論預算解凍案你這公民署長你上次我們凍結最大的理由就是因為你上次不來備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9112.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9132.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那剛剛你回答徐宇甄委員的時候你講說你都有說明嘛在這個地方我把他調出來看但你這個說明裡面你沒有講實話啊因為那個說明裡面第一個你有承認你明明就知道兩點過後延長開會時間嘛所以他會議恢復正常進行你自己也有回到現場對不對但你回到現場的時候因為趙委員不在你就跑了 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9133.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9151.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
然後你說大家都走了大家沒有走啊你好幾個處長當初還坐在下面本席那時候還一個一個點名稱讚表示他們很尊重立法院可是後來為什麼他們也走了這段你要不要交代一下當初的確是會議的狀態其實不是那麼明確那沒有明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9154.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9179.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
會議狀態明不明確應該不是由你們來認定吧應該是立法院的委員會做決議來確定的對不對延長開會動議的時間延長開會時間動議通過他就延長開會時間到討論事項處理完畢為止所以這個會議是非常清楚的議事人員都可以作證不是由你們來認定的吧因為兩點的時候螢幕上打出來是說會議上會開始突然改過來因為當初在確認延長開會動議有沒有通過嘛結論是有通過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9182.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9198.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
真的到後來要請你回來的時候已經是傍晚了你這三四個小時都可以因為兩點那個三分鐘沒有及時更新你就可以擺爛這樣不太對吧更重要你還沒回答我問題啊就是說為什麼那些你下面本來處長都回來都準備要備詢準備要詢答了結果現在他們突然走了呢是你的指示嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9199.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9214.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
沒有我沒有指示他們那他們為什麼突然離開還是他們也跟著你一樣看你不在大家就不在因為會議的狀況不明我就先離開了那後面其實有很多人講因為你收到奇怪的LINE有人傳訊息叫你可以回家你就回家了是吧沒有啦沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9214.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9229.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
沒有啦那你為什麼不來備詢呢你如果要來備詢搞不好五一根都不會凍結嘛可是你今天回答的時候報告也寫得不清楚對不對你也沒有好好的針對這個問題來進行回答那怎麼解凍呢對不對你自己思考一下我們待會還有時間討論好不好好謝謝辛苦了謝謝好 請徐先生留言 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9250.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9252.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
好 謝謝主席 本席有請龔秘書長好 請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9261.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9281.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
前面有兩位委員有提到去年內政委員會的會議本席想要在這裡特別說明 祕書長你覺得會議狀態不明或怎麼樣我想那一天是誰杯葛 執政黨的委員杯葛整個的議事程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9282.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9300.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
然後搞不清楚的也是執政黨的行政院秘書長所以我們在這裡很遺憾執政黨又要背個會議然後又不來備詢但是今天本席的質詢內容沒有這個我只是在一開始我先針對這個來講首先今天我們想跟秘書長來就教 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9307.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9328.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
現在當然大家都對於我們這個一般性補助款2501億呢對各直轄市政府或縣市政府的這個補助款首先本席請教你這2501億在去年審查114年總預算的時候它有被立法院刪減嗎有沒有任何一個立委提議刪減這個 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9337.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9354.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
並沒有沒有 對原因是什麼本席跟大家說因為我們行政院應該這應該是主計總署提出來的114年度中央政府總預算編列一法律義務支出明細表 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9355.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9375.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
所以呢 各位 這個2,501億對地方政府的一般性補助款他是不能刪減的立法院都不能刪減行政院也不能任意刪減那什麼情況下可以刪減這個有辦法 有規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9378.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9388.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那個秘書長我想您應該知道中央政府給予地方政府的一般性補助款金額不得少於修正實施前一年度的預算編列數 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9389.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9416.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那得三減補助款的情形是採正面表列也就是第四條違反限制規定第五條執行效能執行情形開源節流的績效以及第六條拒絕提供補助經費之用還有第十二條有依法得徵收之裁員而不徵收等都是具體明確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9417.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9443.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
地方政府有為師的情形行政院才可以來不予補助或是刪減補助款所以這個目前我們看到立法院依法行政立法院不能刪減的我們沒有一個委員刪減但是行政院卻把應該要通案刪減的636億 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9447.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9470.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
只用在全部就應該要在各部會分攤這636億通案刪減是要在行政院各部會去分攤的但是行政院的決定就是只針對地方政府報復民眾懲罰民眾本席在這邊要請教秘書長這個決策是誰決定的誰決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9478.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9506.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
奧委員中央政府對於地方政府的支持是一定的否則我們不會不用編了兩千五百億請不要浪費我時間我時間已經沒了請問這個把這個法定的支出不得刪減除了它有違規的情況但是現在行政院卻把這六百三十六億要在各部會分攤的全部用在這 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9507.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9536.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
只分攤在地方政府的這個一般性補助款本席想請教這到底是誰的決策其他的中央政府已經被刪減了一千四百多億而且是在大院的這個我想請教我請教您的就是是誰決定把這六百三十六億就用在這個兩千五百零一億的一般性補助款是誰決定是卓榮泰院長還是賴清德總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9538.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9554.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
是誰決定的他會提出可能的一些救濟的方法所以是主計總署之前對立法院在去年告訴我們這個是法定義務之初絕對不能刪減所以你說是主計總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9560.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9565.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
主計總署也是提議吧 主計總署跟我們講不能刪 結果跟行政院來提議要刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9579.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9586.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
哇我們的政府可以這樣子違法亂紀違規沒有如果沒有那個236億的這個空白刪除的話就不會發生這樣的情況636億這一塊他本來過去也都有通案刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9596.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9613.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
就是要行政院來立法院大家一起協調或是行政院你應該各部會刪減你不做你全部加諸在民眾然後呢影響我們人民的通案刪減這個939億我們行政院也沒有發表所以現在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9621.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9645.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
主計總署跟行政院提案那誰最後決策嘛誰最後拍板定案的嘛卓院長嗎不敢講卓院長所以主計總署這個主計長很有問題對立法院不能刪的行政院來刪而且違反自己訂出來的規定那所以現在這個一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9648.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9674.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
兩千五百零一億呢就要轉嫁到地方影響了我們學童的交通老人家的生活我們托育的照顧我們長照的照顧公共的醫療消防建設文化活動等等等所以全部都加租到地方那本席最後要再詢問我們秘書長今年通過的總預算是不是歷史新高 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9677.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9701.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
歷史由始以來最高的嘛對結果通過預算歷史新高再告訴我們自愛難行ok自愛難行的部分你當初的因為這個各部會他的這個溝通我們沒辦法管到那麼細但是我們希望未來很多東西你要加強溝通很多沒有溝通啊好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9704.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9706.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
接著最後本席要說我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9711.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9736.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
整個的通案刪減636億如果在中央各部會來分攤的話大概佔我們中央政府總預算2%左右就2%那就像一個大水庫你大水庫理論你這樣子分攤可是結果我們的行政院竟然就是轉嫁到地方轉嫁到地方結果造成地方20幾%的一個衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9738.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9762.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以我們不希望我們的政府治理 中央執政不要情緒失控人有情緒失控所以會有錯誤的言行但是不要因為這個我們合理的刪減希望不要浮邊爛邊還有很多績效不好的我們稍微遵截經費結果不高興結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9763.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9775.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
這個中央政府整個情緒失控拿民眾開刀拿民眾當肉票這種報復行為不行最後最後本席請教這個有沒有可能收回陳敏的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9777.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9794.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
因為現在按照刪除的決議這個636億就是一定要刪除我們提出的故意也沒有通過636億你們各部會去分攤嘛各部會有很多的經費去分攤各部會已經被刪除掉了1400多億了你參考一下去年的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9803.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9823.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
對不對今天你比去年還多出兩千億所以你參考一下去年的預算好不好如果其他的部分可以刪減的部分在大院在審議的過程幾千個提案就會被刪掉所以反正現在整個社會要了解這個是行政院一意孤行的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9824.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9835.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
一意孤行然後專門拿民眾開刀拿民眾當肉票這一塊其實我想這個社會自由公論好 謝謝好 請正天朝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9858.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9880.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
主席 請祕書長好 請祕書長這位好祕書長好 辛苦了謝謝這個這一次啊114年度的預算的通案三檢當初的提案在這裡民眾黨所提的提案通案三檢從這個每一個列舉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9884.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9912.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這個項目來看通案刪減的其實都是什麼都是一般維持費這些不影響人民錢益的部分是要讓所有的中央機關要能夠不要亂用人民的納稅錢最主要的用意在這裡而民主黨你很清楚你最清楚你過去也在國安會待過 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9914.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9943.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這次為什麼會產生這種問題就是因為立法院韓國瑜院長主持朝野這個協商要針對整個總預算案要如何審查你本來可以在韓院長主持的協商的時候可以做說明的你本來有機會說明是誰沒說了這個說明就是柯建民總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9944.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9963.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
在那個場合不斷不斷地說大罷免就造成了你沒有機會在那個場合說明所以也就這樣這個原因最主要在這裡好我們看當初立法院通案刪減的決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9964.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9992.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
其中因刪減另已補足的科目是指一般維持費不包括法律義務支出也不包括獎補助費也不包括義備金而且因刪減另已補足這四個字是針對中央機關是針對中央機關所要資用的經費你怎麼可以去刪減地方政府的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9993.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10014.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
所以這個部分是一個非常嚴重的一個錯誤然後我們看這個行政院114年5月16號函給各地方政府修正114年度中央對地方政府一般性補助款結果一砍百分之二十幾總共砍了663億我們看 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10020.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10046.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
中央對地方政府的一般性補助款他的法源依據就這個辦法然後法源是財政收支方法第三十條第二項以及地方制度法第69條第三項這是法律所明定這裡面包含警政消防人員尤其是第二條第二條的第三項的第三目 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10047.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10070.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
就是法例民定地方政府要配合的部分法例民定是國民年金法農民健康保險條例老年農民福利暫行條例中低收入戶老人生活津貼發起辦法這個是法例民定地方政府也要去資用的經費要發要資用然後透過怎麼來源經費來源從哪裡來就是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10078.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10106.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
中央對地方政府的一般性補助款這是這樣來的這是法律所明定的這裡面寫的很清楚第三條第一項一般性補助款補助事項社交研這個教育社會福利等等就是剛才的這些條文啊就是這些法律所明定的所以他是法律義務支出啊這法律義務支出怎麼可以刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10107.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10136.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
你怎麼可以去刪減你應該去刪減你的一般維持費是中央所要支用的這些經費好我們看行政院主計總署在去年8月行政院主計總署去年8月送到立法院的中114年度中央政府總預算案編列依法例義務支出明細表 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10138.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10165.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
這不是我們立法院自己做的是行政院送來的依法律義務支出的明細表裡面就包含了一般性補助款兩千五百零一一千多寫得非常清楚所以從剛才的法規法例來看包括自己行政院自己也認為這是法律義務支出這是符合的應該的 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10167.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10197.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我們再看民主進步黨在1月21號的臉書2501億一般性補助款都是行政和立法部門不能變動的中央法定支出連民進黨的中央黨部都認為這個當然是你們提供給他們的當天啊然後呢這裡面還寫到中央政府可用的預算還有一兆元啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10199.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10227.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
扣除那些刪減了之後扣除統商的刪減了之後還有可用的一兆元一兆元你不用不是不刪結果你去刪對地方政府的一般性補助款而且涉及到教育社福的經費怎麼那麼狠啊好好回去啊秘書長這不是你做的決定回去跟卓榮泰院長做說明好接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10230.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10257.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
基本設施維持費啊你們也把它凍結3億2千萬3億2千萬的理由是什麼也是這個636億636億地方一般性補助款你扣了刪了還要再刪原住民的基本設施維持費這是對原鄉的這些基本財政的這個一個協助啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10258.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10286.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那不是超過636億嗎對不對變成600超過啊超過636億啊你們的理由也是這個所以這個部分民主黨趕快趕快要求行政院主席總署基本設施維持會趕快撥款另外建法補償你剛講的是什麼這是第一個行政院院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10288.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10317.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
同意要辦追加預算 禁法補償不足的23億9千多萬立法院也做了決議要辦追加預算 研民會依立法院的提案在今年的3月已經把這個追加預算已經送到立法院所以行政院 趕快秘書長 這個你可以做決定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10318.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10334.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
趕快把進法補償23億9千多萬這個跟什麼 跟總預算無關啦 跟你事先無關啦這追加預算跟總預算無關啦不要再用這個理由啊可以嗎 秘書長從3萬塊變成6萬塊 這個我們一定會補足他 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10344.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10371.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
一定會讓原民有這樣的需要的人一定領得到這是法律義務民主黨如果齁如果我們沒有研會齁根本來不及啊你要辦追加預算要到11月才那個審議啊9月10月都是總質詢啊所以你趕快送來送來還來得及在7月底以前啊完成追加預算好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10372.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10379.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我來表達好 謝謝好 請黃國昌委員謝謝主席 麻煩有請秘書長好 請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10400.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10427.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
黃委員好民進黨好,我今天早上在隔壁的交通委員會問問希希的代理主有一個問題,他沒辦法回答他說他不是他的全責範圍因為去年周鴻泰說11月19號,你看一下他說我們希望在12月以後通傳會能夠有新的名單出來那去年年底是沒有提出來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10428.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10446.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
今年四月說希望月底以前能夠提出來還是沒有提出來五月二號說人選已經確定可能下週公佈名單今天已經五月幾號了所以現在行政院新的主委名單什麼時候要送來班委我想我可以跟院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10456.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10475.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
所以除了他以外也沒有人可以回答這個問題嗎?卓榮泰剛好總諮詢的時候答應大家4月底要送來總諮詢結束以後人不用來立法院講話不算話 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10477.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10494.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
一個行政院院長可以講話不算話到這種程度喔立法委員也問不到他ACC代理主委很無奈秘書長也很無奈大家都很無奈整個國家沒有人拿卓榮泰有辦法所以你今天的立場就是回去轉達給卓榮泰 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10503.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10513.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
好 希望今天左榮泰看是不是責成行政院發一個新聞稿講話不算話一而再再而三跳票跳票成這個樣子也問不到他本人大家都拿他沒辦法現在左榮泰是覺得自己是太上皇是不是愛怎麼幹就怎麼幹第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10531.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10546.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
之前行政院送來立法院審議的NCC主委加委員總共四個人嘛主委因為NCC組織法的修正已經不合格了剩下的三個人行政院也要撤回名單嗎我問過議事處了 到目前為止沒有撤回但是我現在有點看不懂總統他說他要提出一個新的名單出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10557.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10582.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
聽起來好像不是只有主委但舊的名單也還沒有撤回去所以現在行政院送到本院來請求本院審議的那份名單除了主委已經喪失法定資格以外另外三位行政院現在的立場是什麼希望立法院處理希望的話我就請交通委員會排案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10583.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10595.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
不希望的話什麼時候會名單要撤回去還是你也不知道對我實際狀況我是不知道但是據我了解應該會更替 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10596.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10619.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那如果要更替的話行政院負責任一點好不好先把這個名單撤回去嘛我會轉到該撤不撤放在立法院裡面如果連行政院秘書長都搞不清楚狀況的話那全中華民國沒有幾個人搞得清楚狀況只有一個人搞得清楚狀況就是一而再再而三跳票的卓榮泰 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10623.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10652.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
今天委員啊大家關心的另外一個事情啊喔對我再插一句話行政院委員要撤回動作要快意思表示要清楚否則的話我要請交通委員會開始排案了直接公聽會排下去三位沒有撤回名單的請來立法院這三位有沒有跟行政院院長表達詞意還是你也不知道這個我不知道你也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10656.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10681.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
好來 下一個事情就看你知不知道了今天非常多委員關心的事情我們在通刪對象是中央各機關及其所屬地方補助款一毛都沒有刪地方補助款一毛都沒有刪地方補助款按照你們行政院自己發函給立法院的這是法定義務支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10683.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10707.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
卓恩泰是什麼時候決定他要去刪地方補助款的這個你知不知道他什麼時候決定的這個是主計總署他們想了各種各種的方法以後所以是主計總署的主計長建議的是嗎什麼時候提出這個建議主計總署送上來的沒有錯什麼時候送上來的我具體的講啦今天這麼多委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10709.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10726.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
提出質詢卓榮泰違法濫權之處已經非常清楚了接下來要進行責任追究的部分那既然是要進行責任追究的部分誰做這個決策誰要負責嘛主席總署什麼時候提這個主意給行政院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10728.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10738.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這個你也不知道嗎那我要回去查一下你要回去查一下書面回覆可以嗎可以好第一個主席總署什麼時候上文給行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10740.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10768.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
建議這樣子做請行政院書面回覆而且連主計總署上的文一定提供可以嗎我來瞭解一下可以提供嗎要問一下主計總署我再瞭解一下這應該不是什麼國家機密吧第二個主計總署上來了以後卓榮泰什麼時候決定要對地方的一般補助款這個法定義務支出動手的什麼時候做的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10772.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10794.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我剛剛提到這個我沒有了解 我要回去了解OK 沒關係啦 今天行政院秘書長來我問了幾個都是行政院執掌相關的事項啦那顯然連秘書長對於行政院院長做了很多決策相關的時間點也沒有辦法充分的了解 這沒關係會後提供就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10795.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10820.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
最後一個問題本院如果通過決議要求你們更正這個違法的狀況把該給地方政府的一般補助款補足行政院會不會遵守立法院的決議還是行政院打算我就是要硬幹到底你立法院做什麼決議我行政院也沒有要鳥你們如果立法院做這個決議行政院會不會遵守 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10823.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10844.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我們現在的做法就是遵照立法院總預算的三讀的決議在辦理錯你現在的做法完全不是按照立法院總預算三讀的決議來辦理你去對一下啦113年中央政府總預算案通過的通案的決議跟114年通案的決議你就會清楚看得出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10846.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10859.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
113年通案的決議還有刪給地方政府的補助114年的決議一個字都沒提到而且明確的就講中央各機關及其所屬行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10860.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10878.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
行政院要繼續凹 那個是行政院的事情我現在只問一個簡單的問題本院如果做出了決議要求你們把違法 苛扣還給地方政府的一般補助款補足行政院會不會遵守還是你也不知道 要回去請示著龍派我沒有辦法表示說這個還沒有發生的事情還沒有辦法表示 我只講一個基本的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10888.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10891.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
如果台灣還是憲政民主的國家如果台灣還是憲政民主的國家當國會做了這樣的決議的時候請行政院請行政院尊重國會的決議改正你們過去的錯誤也拜託秘書長把今天在這邊聽到各個委員質詢強烈的意見帶回去給卓榮泰可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10919.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10926.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
好 謝謝好 請翁小林而言有請秘書長好 請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10944.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10960.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
欧文好是秘书长好我想今天刚刚很多委员都已经问了您有关于就是这个行政院在去年在送114年度中央政府总预算案的时候那个时候有附带一个114年度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10961.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10988.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
中央政府总预算案编列依法律15支出明细表一份也就是这一份那这一份呢因为先前已经有些委员有问了那我只想要问您请教您就是说这一份明细表它的法律意义是什么依照这份明细表里面所列的这些预算这些项目对不起我刚拿错了就是依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10991.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10998.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
这个明细表里面所列的这些预算项目它的意义是什么是可以任意删减的吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10999.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11026.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
可以任意不執行嗎我是不是請主席總書的同仁說明一下好 可以 請跟委員報告一下委員公文上面的依法利益物支出其實是我們在審查預算的過程當中的分類那為什麼要這樣分類的原因就是因為說如果被歸為依法利益物支出的話代表說我們在審查預算的過程當中必須要去注意說這些支出在法律上是有規定需要去支出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11026.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11045.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
可是不是所有的法律都有規定明確的這個標準跟數額那以這個一般性補助款來講的話在地制法跟財務法只有規定說中央要著於補助沒有規定說數額是多少所以說這個預算裡面是估計的數字是有彈性的空間我想這是你們自己列出來的支出明細表裡面每一項都有先聽我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11053.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11082.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
这个部分是你每一项都有清楚的列出那个数额数字那么不仅仅是针对一般的补助款然后甚至包含像是这个这个征补什么基金拨补基金然后对于社会福利津贴补助等等都在这份明细表里面那么现在本席质疑的就是我们已经立法院经过三读通过各项 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11083.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11106.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
這個依照法律義務支出的這個經費那麼通過了這些經費它的意義是什麼這個經過我們立法院三讀通過的法定預算它的意義是什麼報告委員現在就是說這個自行3.636也是在這個法定預算之前的這個法定預算我現在問你經過立法院三讀通過的法定預算的意義是什麼請問秘書長意義是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11110.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11133.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
報告委員因為在三讀通過以後要我們自行刪減636那我們就是按照這個決議現在的問題很清楚經過立法院三讀通過的法定預算法定預算我不是指那6361所有的法定預算的項目它是不是概念上在法律的解釋上它叫措施性法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11134.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11151.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
竟然是措施性法律通过它就具有什么法律的拘束力它就不需要去执行换句话说行政院没有权利不执行也没有这个权利不按照通过的预算表去核发这些经费 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11153.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11180 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
今天因為對於6361的解釋我們剛已經講很清楚在我們中央我們這次通過只是拘束了中央政府以及他的所屬機關不涵蓋到地方政府剛剛黃國昌委員這個部分已經講很清楚了我也不勞煩這個秘書長您再重複一次因為你們的法律借鑒是錯誤的我們刪的是中央政府的預算那接下來我想要提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11182.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11205.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
中央政府及所屬機關中央政府就是說好我接下來要問的是另外一個問題在這次行政院有提出針對中央政府總預算申請釋憲那麼請問你們在申請釋憲之前你們有徵詢過司法院考試院的意見嗎他們有同意你們要提出申請釋憲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11210.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11229.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
據我了解應該是會有溝通但是實際狀況不是我去溝通我就沒有辦法聊是不是有這樣的情況我在這裡跟秘書長報告我昨天有問了對不起禮拜一的這個質詢質詢司法院司法院的王副秘書長說他們沒有接受到任何的徵詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11230.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11247.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
沒有接受到行政院的意見徵詢所以行政司法院跟考試院我認為他們可能也不見得有接受到行政院有徵詢他們意見要不要針對他們的預算一起去申請釋憲既然你們現在已經申請釋憲了我接下來想要問的問題就是說如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11253.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11267.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
因為柯建民總召說假設這個大法官宣判114年的總預算是違憲的那麼總預算將案源編列使用請問主計處還有運輸長是如柯總召這麼說嗎假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11275.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11302.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
這個我們的這次的總預算可能被大法官宣告一部或是全部的違憲那接下來是要怎麼樣的處理就要按照 已經執行執行完畢的預算我們就要依照這個大法官的解釋來辦理所謂大法官解釋就是有可能退回重審啊假設他退回給立法院重審請問主席我們這時候要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11304.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11307.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我們是要重新審過嘛我們每一項預算重新審過對不對這個還是要看大法官到時候好我要講就是說你們必須要去講清楚這個預算退回立法院重審那代表說我們有可能就現行的預算刪減的更多或是凍結的更多你們現在已經正在已經執行完畢的這些預算之後要怎麼追回 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11333.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11351.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我不知道行政院有沒有想清楚他後續的一些法律的問題還是法官會可以回答嗎道法官會做怎麼樣的裁處我們也實在不知道所以這些都是假設性的我也沒有辦法在這裡等到道法官有正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11352.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11382.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
现在大法官的做法非常有可能那就站在你们民进党政府这一边所以我要讲就是说因为过去从来没有针对过这个总预算案来申请事先甚至我认为大法官都不应该受理都不应该受理总预算案的事先案但他们现在还没有处理可是我觉得这个问题很严重主计总书还有甚至审计部都应该要先讲清楚如果说是这个预算退回立法院重审我们要怎么样审法 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11383.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11403.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
还有就是审当然退回我们立法院重审我们一定会全部重新审不会这个按照你们行政院的意然后这都不审或是按照全部你们立法院行政院所提出来的预算原编列项目然后就完全的放水同意这是不可能的中间如果说有任何的预算经费有变化行政院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11405.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11429.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
你們有想出來要怎麼解決嗎主計處還有審計部要怎麼解決嗎我希望這個秘書長這裡可以給我一份報告好嗎你們既然提出了釋憲案就應該要對後續的這個可能會產生的問題要有所因應這個提出因應策略可以一個禮拜之內給我這份報告好不好下禮拜下禮拜三之前那就麻煩你們好請張棋幹委 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11461.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11463.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
請 秘書長秘書長張維豪這邊你們刪了 砍了這個地方的補助款不只是違法亂七根本就是不顧人民的死活秘書長你應該知道嘛你現在砍掉是什麼預算這地方補助款是什麼事社會福利預算欸照顧最弱勢的長輩跟小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11492.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11515.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
教育地方的基礎建設有些甚至是救命錢你們怎麼砍得下手呢636的空白就不會發生這樣的事636為什麼是空白你剛才說636沒辦法砍沒辦法捅山這裡面有兩個很重要的原則我覺得你們一直在扭曲一直在造謠我先給你一個個案636 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11518.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11541.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
自行調整這個在第一年來通商的預算要行政院自己調整每年都有嘛對不對第一個每年都有這是第一個原則第二個你們在喊636你沒辦法處理我給你一個可以處理的案子同樣是民進黨執政2002年總統什麼人陳水北嘛行政議長 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11543.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11556.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
張慶雄 同樣是民進黨執政那一年要行政院去自行調整要三月多少錢?658億比例的636更加多耶那一年有沒有調整好?那一年解決啦為什麼陳水扁可以賴清德不行為什麼張慶雄可以處理總統他不行你們根本就是違法亂計啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11571.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11576.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
第一個每一年都有通商要你自行調整第二個你的金額也不是最大的現在更可惡的你們還去砍那個跟人民最有關係的上次我已經罵你們罵一頓了你們在砍勞工的退休金 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11593.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11620.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
靠從罕見疾病健保的這個錢我說你們從政久了什麼 心變硬變黑了是不是你那天我就跟你們講人民相關的錢一碼錢都不能砍你要砍那時候從你們特別費開始嘛先砍自己的啊特別費是零了對啊特別費我那時候就講你們人民的事情不重視你們砍人民的錢從你們開始嘛所以我那天我就主張特別費從總統一直到行政院長到部委首長先砍嘛後來很客氣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11624.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11647.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
有些砍了全部,有些砍了六成而已你們做不完,憑什麼頂頭沒配拿這個錢,去請客啊,送禮啊當然要砍啊,這一天更加生氣了現在砍,那時候砍什麼健保,勞退的這個錢現在弄到砍的是社福的預算,你們怎麼砍得下去啊你們有沒有天良,有沒有良心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11649.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11655.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
好啦,我今天已經很清楚跟你講了回去跟總統跟行政院長講以前的陳水扁可以做張靜雄可以處理,憑什麼中泰跟賴清德處理不來那你說找不到錢,我幫你找錢你當過國發會主委國發基金農會要落鹹中,那你怎麼沒錢國發基金去投資聯合再生虧損多少八四了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11680.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11698.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
投資了 如心牛仔褲 虧損了多少12.38千載交通亦來亦去啦現金依然沒錢更何況你今年還是歷年來卻薪高的將近三兆的預算欸 你們很窮你們砍那個最弱勢的地方政府接下來我要跟你談 違法亂紀在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11707.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11716.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
這是明明先過我剛剛已經跟你開宗明義講了以前有例子你們本來就要解決問題你們不解決結果現在砍了人民救命錢我們在審查預算的時候看下一張要你去通刪歷年來都這樣嘛不只今年你去翻以前要通刪的通案刪減的按鈕刪的是誰中央各機關及所屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11736.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11758.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
你到底有沒有看到有地方補助這是第一個第二個地方補助款我們省的時候一毛錢也沒有刪啊第三個才化法三十條不能比上一年度減少你三個都違反了耶第四個也是很離譜的 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11760.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11776.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
地方補助款你在前一年的八月份你就要通知他對不對你做國會主席要顧這必須定 背後對不對前一年八月你跟人家講各個縣市已經編好了經過各個地方議會通過了因為立法院刪掉了我們也沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11777.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11784.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
你為什麼一直在扣這個立法院刪掉立法院從法內傳一層面要刪的是中央政府跟首屬各機關更明確的補助款一毛錢沒有砍對不對第三個財務法還有那條線在那邊你怎麼會講是立法院砍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11795.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11806.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
所以你們行政院砍的 大家看什麼是你行政院砍的而且就不能砍這一筆嘛你要砍的我剛剛跟你講啦上次我跟你講砍特別費 砍了嘛 對不對今天我就更明確跟你講 國發基金浪費的錢這是為什麼要砍這636第一個膨脹太多嘛歷史有史以來最高的你比去年一下子膨脹了8.2%地市突破3兆耶當然要砍啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11822.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11836.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
而且浪費那麼多 批量那麼多你應該是從你的國發基金浪費的地方去砍嘛你怎麼砍人民咧砍地方政府咧國發基金的預算很少沒有636億沒有636 你現在最少也一年八月能走對不對浪費我剛剛已經練了一百多億給你聽了吧我們現在要稅出預算那636為什麼2002年張建雄可以找得到你們找不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11852.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11875.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我們也很無奈要回去找不是要無奈你回答我從政的初衷是什麼你一個年輕的學生買了一百萬的行政業我們為什麼會給2500億給地方政府原先的預算就是要支持地方政府但是有了636這樣的空白預算我們其他的已經已經砍掉了1400多億所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11880.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11896.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
所以這個也是為什麼我講無奈的立法院很清楚當初為什麼要這個通案的刪減我告訴你有史以來都有2002年還比你多那為什麼要這樣刪第一個你膨脹太快第二個你有浪費跟弊案嘛我今天都很明確跟你講國發基金是其中一部分嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11897.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11915.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
2002年他也去找到錢嘛你有潛力可行你怎麼反而回過頭去砍一個罪不應該砍的不只是違法你現在摸著良心講你摸著良心講你現在砍的那個地方補助社福的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11916.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11932.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
你這樣怎麼對得起那些長輩 對得起那些小孩教育的費用耶 地方建設的基礎建設耶二十幾年來只有2002年跟今年發生而已表示這種狀況 它是不尋常的不尋常 那為什麼2002年可以解決為什麼你沒辦法解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11934.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11956.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
你給主計長來報告你們提出了某些解決方案啊不是完全不行欸最重要是你浪費了你的弊案你要處理嘛現在這兩個大問題你自己沒有反省去解決真的要砍掉浪費跟弊案的錢第二個你去砍的最不應該砍的錢嘛不知道你摸著良心你砍的是人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11957.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11964.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
攸關他們說長輩跟年輕人 社福的預算欸 教育的預算欸基礎建設的預算欸 你怎麼可以砍這筆預算咧我們也很無奈你無奈 你要去解決問題嘛 對不對回到初期 如果各地方政府有需要的時候 我們會協助各地方政府如果有需要 我們會協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11981.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12003.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
協助 這個是在法定上應該給的錢嘛你們不應該砍 就還給人家啊什麼叫協助人家現在就告你們了嘛現在連蔣萬安都說提行政訴訟嘛 對不對立委都當場都檢舉了嘛我們刻後罪 刻後罪嘛 我們就追究你們責任好啦 秘書長 我做一個結論啦人在公門好休閒 今天包括主席總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12005.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12011.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
你說租界主計長是新來的 為台南起來你們主計總署都這麼資深 那麼悠揚的官員對不對你們去看看以前的個案怎麼處理的每一年的通商都可以處理 2002年可以處理你們主計長如果是新來的 你們有資深的 你們要幫他解決問題啊我做一個結論啦 回到初心 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12031.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12037.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
回到初心人在公門好修行不要違法亂紀更不要對不起人民謝謝好請張雅琳委員我剛真的在後面等很久呢好請秘書長還有人權處但呃我想先請秘書長好了人權處等一下齁好秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12064.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12078.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
因為我剛剛聽在下面我覺得有蠻多可能要闢謠一下啦那個秘書長要不要先簡單說一下特別費你還剩多少啦他一直說你要去他一直說你們拿去請客啊吃飯送禮啊來你們特別費平常是做什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12079.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12094.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
特別費大部分是同仁假如有額外的就是幫我們做一些事情我們是獎勵他還有逢年過節的時候我們也會給同仁一些額外的獎勵有一點犒賞同仁絕大部分都是這樣子還有就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12098.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12111.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
如果有婚喪喜慶我們必須要送花花籃就像是立法委員韓國瑜院長在我們可能生日的時候啊母親節的時候也會送我們一些禮物嘛就是特別費的費用啦所以你們現在還剩多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12113.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12129.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
他就是零了你就是零了嘛所以是沒有嘛已經刪掉了嘛對不對那剛剛還有講說就是我們這個我們怎麼刪救命錢我想我這邊我理解的啦但是秘書長可以幫我核對一下據我所知內政部裡面我們的空勤總隊的國內女廢是被刪了20% |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12134.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12148.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
還有他的國外旅費以及出國訓練費三減了15%其實都會消減影響了我們的飛行員的訓練還有一些維護的支援也會影響他的專業能力以及他可能沒有辦法有一些例行的會議嘛對不對這是救難 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12150.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12165.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
還有消防署的災後復原與消防訓練也都會受到限制這是我的理解啦是不只是內政部其他的部會也都一樣包括數位發展部他的業務費被砍掉了大概40%我們行政院總共5億的業務費被砍掉了2億 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12168.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12194.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
還有像是我之前一直非常在乎這個新南向新南向的預算嘛讓我們很多的小朋友的一些團體啊他們有機會可以不要只去中國可以去我們新南向的一些國家去做一些體育的交流據我所知這個經費也被刪減了是為誰刪的咧就是國民黨跟民眾黨聯手刪掉所以冤有頭債有主啦好不好當初你不要刪現在也不會發生這件事情所以這還是要回去就責攬擺啦好那接下來回到我自己原本的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12208.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12222.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
我今天呢其實最主要是想要先問完文秘書長就是我一直都非常關心我們促轉基金的創新運用因為我認為他應該要更多的公司協力來支持我們民間關心這個議題的一些相關的行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12224.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12242.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
而不是去補貼我們一些公務部門的一些公務預算支出那其實我從去年開始進到立法院到現在我基本上在每次的總質詢或者是在上次的經濟委員會我也有去質詢過劉主委但我也有發現就是說11月21號院長主持的這個行政院推動轉型正義匯報也曾經做出決議要求國發會應該要去規劃我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12245.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12266.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
促轉基金要來達成所謂公司協力而且要更友善民間的綜合性補助計畫可是我到目前都沒有看到具體的方案所以到底規劃進度是什麼行政院真的認同促轉基金應該要有更多的公司協力跟創新運用嗎我想問一下這個態度上 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12269.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12286.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我們已經請國發會在研擬當中了實際的狀況沒關係我先請教一下秘書長就是說我們到底認不認同這件事情行政院是認同的好那接下來我就想要請問一下因為其實今年我們也頒了這個轉型正義階段性的一個政策重點的一個策定方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12286.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12301.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
對於促進轉型正義說要強化民主任性以及要做民間扎根社會有感那到底我們現在做了什麼我們有沒有開始做一些社會討論可不可以請人權處處長簡短的說明一下目前的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12302.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12322.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
好謝謝委員關心這個事情那的確今年二月行政院發布了這個策進方案當中很重要的就是要扎根民間社會強化民主任性所以針對委員關心的促轉基金這個部分我們其實在去年底開始到今年三月大概就進行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12324.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12350.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
有限的預算規模底下我們也進行了一些社會溝通跟討論那在這個討論的過程其實一個部分是包含我們預計在接下來的匯報會提出有關促轉基金6月應該就要匯報了吧對不對半年嘛6月應該就要匯報了所以我們在6月的時候會提出你剛講聽起來已經做了一些社會溝通了嘛是所以在6月匯報我們會提出一個比較完整的計畫嗎是我們會提出一個促轉基金的策略計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12351.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12374.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
那回扣到我們現在出版條例第七條五個法定用途那比較重要的是剛剛委員所關心的後面的機制那這個機制其實在去年的卓院長十一月的匯報有責成國發會在做研議那在目前我們所掌握到也就是在匯報的網站上面公開的今年一一四年的轉移增印的相關的業務規劃裡面國發會的確也把 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12377.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12398.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
目前第一季第三季相關的進度有把公司協力的這個活化的機制納入他們的工作而且但是因為其實我自己去問啦不管是我覺得國發會也好或是檔案局也好我會覺得資金的進度還是相當有限因為我不太確定這些社會討論的部分到底檔案局或是國發會有沒有去加入他們有沒有真的去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12399.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12425.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
這個民間到底的一些期待或者是說他們到底希望的一個什麼樣建立一個什麼樣的友善機制我是不是那麼確定但我的感覺是似乎看起來都還是比較消極所以如果今天我們已經做了社會討論那接下來就是國發會跟我們這邊人權處要如何來把因為六月之後是不是這個接下來就是回到國發會了對不對那接下來這一段是要如何的去進行呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12427.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12448.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我們因為這個策略計畫其實他搭配現在院作為基金的主管機關執行機關是國發會那比較主要是責成在檔案局所以的確在整個策略計畫發布的之前跟之後我們也需要再跟國發會做比較密切的溝通那委員關心社會討論的部分先前在跟國發會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12449.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12460.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
幾次的內部溝通當中他們也承諾說會把社會討論的一些相關的一些討論的過程會在他們整個公私協力的機制裡面納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12462.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12488.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
請問秘書長,這樣聽起來,我覺得還是希望秘書長行政院這邊應該要來更積極的去要求國發會要來落實這件事情那我也認為就是說,因為這個是不是可以請秘書長來要求我們的國發會跟人權處在兩週內提供一個你們現在做的一些規劃的報告跟進度到我的辦公室我們來了解一下這個事情好嗎?因為我們才能夠去確保說 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12491.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12517.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
是不是真的可以讓民間覺得他的可敬用性是高的然後這個部分的話就是是不是可以請秘書長這樣子去要求呢可以可以好那接下來就是在匯報的話也希望可以積極的在這個會議裡面去要求我們要這個相關國發會呢要積極的來去接下來因為下次匯報就是11月就是要積極的來去監督他們好嗎可以嗎謝謝可以可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12523.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12550.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
好 何欣雄 何欣雄 何欣雄委員不在王宏宏 王宏宏委員不在羅明財 羅明財 羅明財委員不在蘇靜泉 蘇靜泉 蘇靜泉委員不在林楚瑩 林楚瑩 林楚瑩委員不在鄭振淺 鄭振淺 鄭振淺委員不在楊瓊 楊瓊 楊瓊瑩委員不在蔡玉宇 蔡玉宇 蔡玉宇委員不在好 那個各位委員登記發言委員處不在場者外區域均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員王宏威所提書面質詢列入紀錄� |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12554.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12579.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
書面質詢和為及答覆部分請相關單位一週內書面答覆並複製本會那我們現在進行討論事項一處理114年度中央政府總預算有關行政院預算凍結作案報告書面報告案紀律案請問各位委員是否均同意動之好 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12581.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12608.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
有意義有意義來不是啦我先請問一下喔各位委員我們總計有六案嘛大家對哪幾案有意義第一案不是不是總共我們先一起處理好不好六案我說我的第一案好第一案那再來咧還有咧我的也是第一案好那徵求各位委員23456是否均同意動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12610.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12629.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
好那我們現在我們來處理第一案好不好23456均同意動之那我們處理第一案那我們休息協商處理趕快趕快講好清楚民事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12654.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12667.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
秘書長 因為我喉嚨很痛 抱歉秘書長 我知道你不能夠決定這個事情但是我一定要把證據攤出來給大家看11月7號行政院 我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12669.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12678.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
所有的在野黨全部在行政院開會議然後呢院長親自簽名辦理追加預算予以致應這是原住民競發補償再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12685.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12699.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
11月10號 這個是行政院給我的公文禁法補償經費貴院朝野黨團跟本院會商決議採追加預算方式辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12700.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12722.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
貴院朝野黨團於本院於113年11月7號會上決議所需的經費財追加預算方式辦理第二個配合禁法補償金發放的期程本院規劃在貴院下會期你這是1月份是上會期下會期就是現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12724.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12741.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
下會期配合發放作業期程本月規劃在貴月下會期也就是第十一屆第三會期辦理追加預算籌編事宜從頭到尾通通都告訴我們你們要用追加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12743.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12763.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
現在你們卻答不出來要追加預算然後霸凌園民會要讓園民會自己去處理或者是你們在偷偷地塞錢給他幹嘛 我們原住民是小偷喔立法院三讀通過的法案我們叫正大光明地拿啊我們為什麼要這樣偷偷摸摸地拿那不是偷偷摸摸 你就追加預算啊我要請問你 追加預算有什麼困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12771.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12786.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
追加預算有什麼困難?追加 不對不起 跟市縣無關你不要在這邊欺騙大家我們是老立法委員 不是新的立法委員啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12787.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12811.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
你們不要再繼續這樣欺負原住民 我告訴你我們會找你們算帳的 我們不是小偷不是 這個六萬塊我們一定會做到會做到 本來就應該對不起 秘書長會做到 本來就是應該的你要用追加預算 你有那麼多的承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12813.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12839.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
你有那麼多的承諾有那麼多的公文為什麼不用追加預算呢不要原住民要依法依法領六萬塊而且卓榮泰院長是怎樣自己簽名不認的自己簽名不認的行政院給我的公文你們也不認的啊現在是怎麼樣行政院是可以這樣依法亂記嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12843.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12867.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我絕對堅持秘書長 原住民要一個說法你們為什麼不用追加減預算為什麼 我們想聽這個為什麼給我們一個說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12881.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12896.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
好各位委員好各位委員第二案到第六案同意動之第一案我們繼續凍結另定其處理本次會議到此結束現在上會 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12899.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12902.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
可是我們沒有記錄原住民啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12919.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12921.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
這間餐廳有很多不同的餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12957.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12981.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
這裡鋪了一堆的,喔,他們收了喔答目的理由啊,不是那個零碎零零雖然你第一雙零零雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷雷 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12991.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12993.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
中文字幕 沛隊字幕小組 |