| IVOD_ID |
16714 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16714 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-28T08:30:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-28T12:19:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:48:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dddabd91bd523f6fd08bd03a951da4504ba12e9ca99aa835c06d46779da8adba945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管預算凍結案計15案。
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會預算凍結案計2案。
三、繼續審查(一)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第八條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第五條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第九條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第九條及第四十條條文修正草案」案及(五)委員陳俊宇等19人擬具「電信管理法第七十五條條文修正草案」案。
【本日會議僅針對開會事由二進行詢答，詢答後進行審查】
【5月28日及29日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:14 - 12:19:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1791.394 |
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1798.187 |
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好 各位請就座好 出席委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄請 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1805.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1831.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期交通委員會第十二次全體委員會議議事錄時間一百一四年五月二十一日星期三上午九十三分至下午一時五十四分五月二十二日星期四上午九十六分至下午一時七分地點本院紅樓二零一會議室出席委員李坤哲等十五人列席委員林德福等二十五人列席官員五月二十一日交通部部長陳士凱 數位發展部部長黃燕南 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1832.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1857.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
及行政面工工程委員會主任委員陳金德等5月22日數位發展部部長黃燕南等主席許昭吉委員致解5月21日報告思想一宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定二處理114年度交通部主管預算凍結案計34案三處理114年度數位發展部主管預算凍結案計13案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1859.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1870.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
是處理一百一四年度行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計期案決定報告事項二至四個案書面報告已送達均予以被查提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1873.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1899.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
討論事項一審查及處理一百一四年度交通部主管預算凍結案計十四案二審查及處理一百一四年度數位發展部主管預算凍結案計七案三處理一百一四年度行政院公安工程委員會預算凍結案計一案本人會議由交通部部長陳士凱等報告後藉由委員洪孟凱等二十七人提出質詢軍警部長陳士凱及相關人員分別予以答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1900.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1928.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
決議一報告及詢問完畢二委員李坤澤等二人所提書面諮詢均列入紀錄並刊登公報三委員諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部、數位發展部、行政院公務工程委員會及相關機關盡數以書面答覆四討論四項一至三個案均同意動資提報委員會通過臨時提案二項五月二十二日討論四項一至二十審查資通安全管理法修正草案決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1930.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1942.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
1.並按審查完略,例如審查結果,明據審查報告,提報院會討論,院會討論前須交由黨團協商,院會討論時有許召集委員致詰,補充說明。2. |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1942.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1950.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
本日通過資調次引述條文部分文字及法制用字,授權主席及議事員整理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1952.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1971.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
審查結果 第一張章名 第一條 第二張章名 第十二條 第十三條 第十五條第十九條 第三張章名 第二十二條 第二十三條 第二十六條第二十七條 第四張章名 第二十八條 第三十一條 第五張章名第三十三條字 第三十五條 均照行政委員體案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1972.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1990.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
二 第二條除第二項修正外餘照行政院提案通過三 第三條含修正動議兩案第十條 第十一條 第二十五條及第三十二條均保留送院會處理四 第四條除徵訂第一項第五款外餘照行政院提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1991.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2016.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
五 第五條除第二項後段修正外餘照行政面提案通過六 第六條照委員黃建豪葛如君等所提修正動議通過七 第七條除第一項修正第三項修正外餘照行政面提案通過八 第八條除第一項及第二項均修正六項前段修正外餘照行政面提案通過九 第九條除第一項修正外餘照行政面提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2018.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2047.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
10.委員葛如君等提案第11條委員賴樂榮等提案及委員林俊憲等提案第3張章明委員羅美玲等提案第25條及委員林俊憲等提案第5張章明均不予採納11.第14條除第1項第1款及第2款均修正外餘照行字面提案通過12.第16條除第1項默劇修正第2項修正外餘照行字面提案通過13.第17條除第2項修正外餘照行字面提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2048.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2067.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
十四 第十八條除第二項修正 第三項修正外 余教行自明提案通過十五 第二十條除第一項制 第五項中特定均予以刪除 第六項修正外 余教行自明提案通過十六 第二十一條除第一項特定 予以刪除 第四項修正外 余教行自明提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2068.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2096.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
十七 第二四條除第二項修正除第三項修正第五項修正外 依照委員黃建豪 葛如君等所提修正動議通過十八 第二十九條造台灣民眾黨黨團提案第二十九條通過十九 第三十條除第五款修正外 依照台灣民眾黨黨團提案第三十條通過二十 委員邱若驊等十七人提案之 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2096.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2123.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
第19條及第21條均予以刪除通過附帶決議一項散會宣讀完畢好請問各位委員對議事錄有沒有意見有沒有好沒有謝謝現在我們來介紹在場的委員首先介紹洪孟楷委員邱若驊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2125.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2126.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
今天我們列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2153.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2156.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
行政院主計處公務預算處專門委員王全凱先生基金預算處科長楊進儒 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2179.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2197.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好接下來現在我們來先處理報告素項2有關113年度國家通信傳播委員會主管附屬單位既有15案的解凍案請議事委員員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2205.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2228.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
報告事項二處理一百一三年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管預算凍結案計15案國家通訊傳播委員會函檢送通訊傳播監督管理基金一至十二一決議第一項專業服務費預算凍結十分之一案二決議第二項通訊傳播監理政策企劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2229.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2241.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
計劃預算凍結十分之一案三決議第三項基礎設施監理計劃預算凍結五百萬元案四決議第四項平台事業監理計劃預算凍結十分之一案五決議第五項傳播事務監理計劃預算凍結兩百萬元案六決議第六項網際網路傳播計劃預算凍結十分之一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2254.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2260.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
7.新增決議第一項旅運費預算凍結50萬元案8.新增決議第二項國外旅費預算凍結50萬元案9.新增決議第三項國外旅費預算凍結50萬元案10.新增決議第四項網際網路傳播計畫預算凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2272.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2294.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
一百萬元案十一新增決議第五項通訊傳播監理案件訴訟費及法律諮詢費預算凍結十分之一案十二新增決議第一項基金用途預算凍結四百萬元案國家通訊傳播委員會函檢訊有限廣播電視事業發展基金十三至十五十三決議第一項有限電視偏鄉級數位化 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2295.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2317.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
普及發展與災害復建補助計畫預算凍結十分之一案十四決議第二項有限電有限廣播電四現況調查及服務品質提升計畫預算凍結十分之一案十五新增決議第一項有限電有限廣播電四現況調查及服務品質提升計畫預算凍結一百一十萬元案宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2319.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2343.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好各位委員針對這些凍結案有沒有意見好沒有意見做以下的決定報告事項預算解凍案113年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算案結議各案書面報告已送達經已被查提報宴會 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2345.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2357.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好沒有意見嗎好謝謝各位來接下來進入本月會議的討論事項先說明相關程序討論事項依據為審查114年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2362.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2378.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
國家通信傳播委員會預算的解凍案兩案及繼續審查電信管理法修正草案解凍案將於詢答結束後處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2379.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2399.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
電信管理法修正草案因為本會議4月2日第5次會議已完成詢答因此本日不再進行詢答並以解凍案處理完畢後直接進行逐條審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2403.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2406.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
現在進行預算解凍案機關報告現在請國家通訊傳播委員會陳代主委報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2427.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2445.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主席 各位委員 女士 先生首先向在座各位委員對本會各項政策推動上的支持與策略表示誠摯謝誠有關本會113年度附屬單位預算及114年度單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2446.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2472.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
凍結決議十七案 本會以分別擬具書面專案報告函送大院在案 敬請參議院議案文書本次會議列有關報告事項十五案及討論事項二案現僅就討論事項二案 簡要說明如下一 凍結一一四年度一般行政中人事費徵務人員待遇預算七分之四部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2473.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2478.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
在委員不足額的情況下本會業務調整之各項因應措施重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2479.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2506.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
一修正相關規定維持基本運作分別在113年7月31日8月2日修正委員會議審議事項及授權內部單位辦理事項作業要點分成負責明細表委員會議一事要點二修正重點及現況當委員人數未達委員法定總額過半數時除一本會組織法第九條第二項規定不得授權之事項外 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2508.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2535.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
相关委员会议审议事项均授权由主任委员或代理主任委员召开既有委员组成的委员之一会议讨论后决定以维持基本会务运作目前本会处本会组织法第九条第二项规定不得授权之事项外均依规定授权由代理主任委员召开既有委员组成的委员之一会议讨论后决定相关委员会议审议事项以维持基本业务运作 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2536.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2540.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
二一四年度一般行政中基本行政工作維持費業務費刪減50%後並凍結10% |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2546.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2574.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
本會對於廣播電視法與衛廣法利害關係人權益的維護部分當今媒體資訊傳播迅速且多元可能發生錯誤報導而侵害個人權益的情況基於武器隊等原則廣電法規定定的利害關係人權益維護相關規定用於解決心靈自由與個人人格權的衝突問題而本項權力的發動者為權益受媒體內容侵害之利害關係人 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2576.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2601.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
本會為廣電媒體之行政監理機關無司法調查權故未介入調查私人紛爭現行廣電法賦予利害關係人要求更正答辯的權利並科與廣電業者執行義務若廣電業者未一線執行更正答辯或書面答覆本會使得依法何處廣電事業未落實利害關係人權益維護的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2603.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2623.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
有關民眾意見反映涉及利害關係人權益維護的案件本會皆禁述在法定請求期限內告知利害關係人相關規定必立即向廣電業者主張更正答辯權利令衡量實務可行性及利害關係人權益保障衛廣法第44條 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2627.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2653.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
原衛廣事業需在20天內執行更正及提出書面答覆在大院110年修法已縮短為10天力求減少錯誤資訊對利害關係人造成之衝擊及傷害本會也定期舉辦相關研討會及座談會向業者宣導相關法令違規案件的分析以及更正達並規定的注意事項促請業者落實法尊 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2654.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2667.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
以上大院關切議題 本會以詳語說明 相關預算 懇請各位委員會議支持並同意動之 必須各項業務順利推動 謝謝好 謝謝我們陳主委的報告 來 接下來進行巡檔先宣告以下事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2678.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2697.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
巡打時間出席委員6分鐘 列席委員5分鐘 委員花園登記在10點30分截止各委員如果有臨時提案 請於10點以前提出 以便議事人員會診 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2700.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2713.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
暫時定為10點30分休息10分鐘中午原則上不休息現在請登記第一位的洪孟楷委員執行來 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳代理主委好 那個陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2733.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2743.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
本席對於預算也好或是各機關單位都是只有一致要求預算當用則用當審則審把錢花在刀口上比什麼都加重要這你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2744.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2772.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
認同好那可是很遺憾我覺得今天交通委員會我們審查NCC的這個解凍案報告在一開始的時候我們執政黨的委員居然也沒有在現場還剛剛還有不足三個人的一個情況還需要拜託我們在野黨委員回來坐在會場上才能夠來繼續下去我想不知道是說是連執政黨委員對NCC的預算都沒有那麼的重視嗎來代理主委你代理多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2774.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2800.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
從去年12月1號到現在12月1號到現在是那本席過去也一直在關心我們NCC的委員名單到底什麼時候會出來你有沒有看到行政院院長怎麼說先前有說會在4月底左右會提出是那今天是5月28號5月底又一個月過去了名單在哪邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2805.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2819.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
有沒有找過你討論也沒有都沒有就一直讓你代理然後預算執政黨的委員也沒有那麼的重視來我們看一下報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2822.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2847.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
4月29號那個時候告訴我們全國國人NCC的人事最快明天提出也就是4月30號提出結果卓龍泰說本週沒問題啦4月29號那一週本週沒問題結果咧過了一個月了不要說本週沒問題本月都提不出來來 再來重提NCC委員名單本週提出人選再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2850.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2877.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
四月底NCC名單跳票左榮泰致歉 我不知道跟誰致歉因為這媒體引述的是你的照片人選說下週會公佈那到現在咧主委你的心情展現我們對於一個行政機關超然自主獨立的NCC的期待還是現在的行政院對於NCC不期不待沒有傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2879.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2896.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
要怎麼國人相信你們可以超然獨立自主一個名單告訴我們從去年的7月31號主委任內已經到齊了12月2號我們修法再一次通過其實我們那時候修法也不是也不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2898.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2922.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那個時候修法才應該要這樣遵守照理講其實我們已經講了當時的修法就是NCC委員不得再延任但是行政部門刻意鑽橋門鑽漏洞好 12月2號把你漏洞給補齊我們當時也講只要你提出專業合格的人選可受公眾公平送進來馬上交通委員會審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2924.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2944.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
有排案嗎 沒有排案 因為連送進來都沒有送進來 我們怎麼審查那現在4月底跳票 下週確定到現在5月底了 也沒看到所以我想你今天過來 除了這個解凍案以外應該也清楚明白 我們委員也會關心這件事情吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2945.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2970.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
結果過去這一個多月行政院長也沒有找你討論也沒有問說NCC現在運作到底良不良善你現在只有三位委員了你說不足法定人數很多重大的決策沒有辦法做包括你今天的解凍報告裡面決議不得授權事項很多的部分這一些都是需要有法定夠足額的委員才能夠執行才能夠推動是吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2973.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3002.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
通訊傳播監理政策制定定義審議這麼重要重要結果現在因為行政院長沒有提人選不能做通訊傳播重要計畫方案審議考核這麼重要重要但因為現在行政院長沒提人選所以不能做網際網路傳播政策制定及審議這麼重要重要行政院長沒提人選所以不能做總共十大項都那麼重要的議題你們自己今天的解凍報告列出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3003.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3006.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
都不能做 為什麼就是因為四月跳票啊主委 代理主委國人要無奈還是你要無奈還是我們兩個都要無奈因為行政院長擺爛我相信大家都期待NCC能夠正常運作是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3027.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3056.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
本席比您更期待為什麼因為還有很多事情需要NCC需要我們所謂超然獨立自主的機關來協助台灣社會不能空轉不能讓詐騙集團橫行不能讓相關的應該被管理被管制或者是協助輔導的機制停擺但現在NCC停擺是誰的問題是人選沒有出來的問題人選沒有出來的問題是因為名單跳票名單跳票是因為行政院長沒有送 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3060.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3087.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
來我請教NCC要空轉多久大家不知道但是之前有講說6月底以前會有37家的不管是有限無限未廣事業執照陸續到期那現在5月底了有幾家到期了上半年是37家會到期下半年是50家我知道啊但我是說像現在因為有一些是陸續到期嘛那現在有幾家到期了 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3088.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3116.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
應該接近應該30左右30家到齊了對 左右之前有講說如果是有線電視的話還有臨時執照的制度可以來使用但無線電視或者是未廣頻道的話是沒有辦法用臨時執照的所以有可能要跳頻因應或者是因為無法換照而無法正常播出那現在這30家裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3119.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3140.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
消費者的權利視聽大眾的權益怎麼保障有線電視部分我們先前有處理過就是因為剛好法律上的會有一個剛好有協助的機制像有線電視的基本頻道要下架必須要經過委員會審議那現在委員會沒辦法組成所以他也沒辦法進行下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3142.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3165.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
所以要換帳沒有辦法換要下架也沒有辦法下你這樣等於是宣告跟所有的頻道業者也宣告說現在NCC就是無人看管時代大空窗時代大航海時代大擺爛時代大家要做任何事情反正現在因為人數不夠因為行政院長沒有提人選所以連下架也沒辦法下架大家來吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3166.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3171.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
擺爛吧我們是請業者繼續保障聽眾的權益來共度難關代理書委 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3177.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3197.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
是我想今天我抱著一個每一次質詢的時候我都用專業審查認真監督的立場準備很多資料你的解凍報告我也一無一失的看我還是強調預算花在刀口上我們沒有不解凍的理由但是你今天列出來這十大點 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3198.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3226.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
都是清楚明白告訴國人當NCC的名單不足當人員不足的時候是沒有辦法正常運行的而人員不足或者是說現在連名單都提不出來如果是因為所謂的陰謀論就是現在所謂的民進黨政府從上到下就是要等七月底罷免的投票罷免投票投完之後再來講所以人選就是不願意出來所以一片再一片三片四片 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3227.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3242.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
4月說提不出來 說本週提不出來 說本月底提不出來到現在有可能5月也不會再提那然後就讓你代理主委反正來這邊幾個委員輪番砲轟然後就這樣傳過水無痕那整個NCC停擺 整個我們有限無限未廣停擺 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3252.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3280.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們要的是這樣的社會嗎我們要的是這樣子的一個獨立自主超然的機關嗎所有NCC的同仁會不會覺得這樣抬不起頭啊行政院長這樣子對待你們連四位人選都不願意提出來立法院該監督該協助要審查的我們一定善盡審查的責任但是如果說連名單都提不出來然後主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3281.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3296.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
有沒有勇氣想要跟行政院長也講一聲停擺了同仁很辛苦名單呢能不能拜託幫我們社會大眾 閱聽大眾來跟行政院長講一聲有沒有這個勇氣實際適當有必要時我會跟院長報告但是相信資訊非常的透明流通已經晚了半年了還不算有必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3310.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3335.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
不是 先前他們你自己提出來報告這十大項都不能做還不算有必要那部分是上委員會沒辦法上委員會但上委員會前的程序我們都如實一起來進行就像跑100公尺 我們都跑到90公尺然後不充現然後看著別人一直充現充現就違法了充現就違法 你也知道誰讓你違法 行政院長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3340.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3368.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
來 最後啦 再回來上一頁主委 代理主委 是我鄭重的要求你應該要有風骨 也要有責任約行政院長 直接跟行政院長報告你的名單在哪裡你講的人選下週公佈 到現在呢過了幾個下週一週 兩週 三週 四週 過了四個下週沒有公佈就沒有公佈要政治算計 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3370.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3390.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
要搞什麼大罷免不要拿NCC來開玩笑NCC有限無限未廣等相關的視聽大眾的權益不是讓你行政部門開玩笑的不是讓你民進黨政府拿來當罷免的籌碼的不是讓你們胡作非為的可以嗎謝謝委員謝謝洪孟愷委員執行現在請 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3399.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3424.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
黃國昌總召執行謝謝主席 麻煩有請代理主委陳代主委主委好 今天NCC所提出來的解凍報告 書面報告第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3425.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3453.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
就是說有關於政務人員待遇被我們凍結七分之四的部分希望解凍要解凍的理由是什麼現在ACG應該有七個委員現在只有三個有四個現在人不知道在哪裡我們要促請行政院趕快把名單提出來所以凍結了七分之四因為沒有人可以領薪水 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3454.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3479.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
沒有人可以領薪水 凍結不是剛剛好嗎那現在你們要求解凍那我的問題就來了現在NCC有幾個委員根文報告當初的案由是說處警行政院是是是 現在NCC有幾個委員三位所以現在每個月就發三個NCC委員的薪水嘛 是吧是那你要解凍其他七分之四要幹嘛你錢要發給誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3483.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3509.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
因為當初預期隨時人 其他市民委員會補齊對啊 什麼時候會補齊這部分權責不在NCC這邊對啊 現在問題就來了啊我們的行政部門可以不負責任到人什麼時候補齊 不知道但是錢要先給我有這個道理嗎那個沒有資用也會回歸國庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3511.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3537.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以咧所以錢還是先給你沒有關係主要原因是因為那個案有觸景我們有做出觸景的一些作為做出了什麼觸景的作為我們發函給人事總署人事總署後來有轉給行政院然後呢然後就有4月份院長對外的一些意見好來我們來看一下我們的走動態當初是怎麼講的去年去年齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3540.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3567.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
11月19號卓榮泰說我們正緊鑼密鼓要有一份新的人選希望國會盡速通過這去年11月19號講的結果卓榮泰口中一份新的名單到現在完全沒看到主委剛剛說4月的時候因為你們有促請行政院院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3569.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3593.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以行政院院長在你們NCC的促請之下對台灣社會說了什麼說四月底要出來四月底過了還是沒有看到名單五月二號 卓榮派在說人選都已經確定啦要有多一點時間完成工作安排可能在下週公布名單今天幾月幾號五月十八 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3597.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3614.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
名單什麼時候會出來不知道在全責單位全責單位是誰行政院對啊現在問題就來了現在問題就來了誰在台灣NCC啊我們堂堂的行政院院長卓榮泰我也不曉得要怎麼去形容他講話他講話跟放空氣一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3626.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3629.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
講話不算話到現在名單也沒送來我不知道NCC交通委員會的委員今天會不會同意解凍但我是充滿了困惑充滿了困惑誰在癱瘓NCC行政部名單都不送出來來我問下一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3653.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3678.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
現在原來提名的那四個人有一個因為NCC組織法的修正已經完全不符合資格嘛那本來的那份名單還有三個人本來提名的名單行政院要撤回嗎這部分應該是大院跟行政院互動的議題我這邊沒有角色立場來評論好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3681.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3705.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這不是我們單純的跟行政院互動的問題因為行政院把名單送來立法院我有跟議事處的人確認確認這份名單到目前為止沒有撤回到目前為止沒有撤回但我們覺得很困惑總統他又說他要提一份新的名單然後新的名單也不送來 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3706.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3735.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
所以原來的名單主委你認為剩下來的三個人本院到底應該就這剩下的三個人現在啟動審查程序還是要等靜靜的等等我們行政院院長卓榮泰的通知看他有沒有要重新送名單這一部分NCC會我個人沒有立場來評議這件事情沒關係按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3736.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3763.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
你現在作為NCC代理主委本來那三個在名單上面還具有資格的那三個人他們有沒有向行政院表達執意說我不想接受行政院提名了你有沒有掌握這個資訊不得而知不得而知喔 奇怪連我都聽說了代理主委不得而知你的情報網路比我還差 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3764.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3787.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
因為那是非正式的所以不再自己表述OK 張偉啊我不是交通委員會的委員啦那但我覺得交通委員會的委員我虛心誠懇的建議啊可能要考慮一下因為現在卓龍泰擺爛嘛卓龍泰擺爛全台灣人民拿他沒皮條啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3788.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3811.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
他愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞他愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞卓榮泰擺爛 癱瘓NCC主委 代理主委站在那邊也很無奈沒有人知道該怎麼辦那因為擺爛的是卓榮泰所以我看NCC代理主委面對行政院院長恐怕也不敢多說什麼啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3812.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3834.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
但是立法院這件事情要怎麼處理啊恐怕主責的交通委員會啊要有一個基本的態度出來要有一個基本的態度出來甚至喔 甚至原來在名單上面的那三個人是不是有表達慈意是不是有要求行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3835.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3859.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
說你要把名單撤回來我不願意接受你提名這個資訊是不是有被行政院隱匿這些事情恐怕國會要扮演監督的角色這些事情都要進一步加以追究這個是給召委一個誠懇虛心的建議提供給貴委員會能夠參考最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3864.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3892.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
最後我只講一件事情我還是期待可能要主委 代理主委去跟卓榮泰講從你的角色來講覺得非常的尷尬但是我們在國會裡面公開的質詢我相信卓榮泰聽得到啦我相信卓榮泰聽得到但反正卓榮泰現在就耍皮嘛 擺爛嘛總質詢過了嘛你們這些立委也拿我沒皮條嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3893.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3900.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我整天就躲在行政院裡面嘛該做的事情也不做自己癱瘓自己的行政部門讓人大開眼界好 謝謝好 謝謝黃國昌總召執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3911.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3928.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這個特別跟陳主委要做一個說明剛才黃國昌總召他執行的這個其實要下情上打所以今天我想一想也是對因為我們那個解凍是七個委員現在只有三個委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3929.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3943.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那有沒有這種必要今天會解凍那你今天解凍以後上了宴會還是會被拉下來所以這個等一下要稍微商討一下因為一向就像剛才在解凍113年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3945.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3972.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
執政黨沒有在這裡反對黨也是讓你過啊謝謝委員反而是我去協調反對黨來這裡法定程序所以我還是希望這些事情NCC是大家等大家等所以主委可能要透過下情善打的問題還應給卓院長這樣可能會比較妥當一點謝謝蔡委我會努力謝謝那接下來我們李昆哲委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3981.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3990.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
謝謝召委 請一下陳代理主委陳代理主委你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3992.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4019.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
主委你好我記得2011年NCC有發布一個兒少通訊傳播權益的政策白皮書那當時也提出幾個口號像寓教於樂啦健康安全啦平等禁用等等目標他也希望能夠提出內容的一個分級制度以及要建立兒少 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4020.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4022.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
友善的媒體環境等等這些目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4026.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4053.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
這份兒少白皮書其實已經經過14年了那它其實早已經沒有辦法面對現在的這種數位的環境那當初這個通訊傳播的權益主要是比較面對相關的廣播電視有線無線電視以及剛起步的這個數位環境但現在已經不一樣了我們看到現在兒少所接觸的媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4055.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4081.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
已經是像這個短眼音社群平台還有這種串流的平台等等這樣的一個最主要的接收的一個來源那這些平台我們看它有一些演算法商業化的核心場域或者是收集兒少的個資甚至有一些不當內容這些不當內容的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4083.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4092.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
推波啊 潛在的不當內容的推波其實也屢見不鮮啊那NCC我知道在去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4093.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4118.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
2024年7月有公布一個初稿這個初稿就是網際網路傳播政策的白皮書還是一個初稿當然初稿裡面我看有提出說維護使用者權益或建立安全可靠的這種信賴環境等等但是對於兒少的這樣的一個結構的脆弱性內容是明顯的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4119.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4144.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那我請問一下主委我們這個NCC今年要提出NCC現在所要提出的這個網際網路傳播政策白皮書目前的架構是怎樣來說明一下是否有針對兒少的結構它的脆弱性有提出更多的防護以及應對的措施來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4145.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4164.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
好那跟我們報告就那這一部分我們其實在2011年版本以後在每個個案的一些落實上在我們既有的作用法的範圍內都有處理那剛剛委員提到說在網際網路這一塊的話那我們是因為目前國內沒有相應的作用法但是根據行政院的分工原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4166.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4196.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
相關的事務跟實體世界是對接的那這一部分我們都會跟相關部會來協力那像NC這一塊的部分IWIN的設立保障兒少的一些身心健康福利這一塊我們都會持續辦理那政策白皮書的部分我們現在已經有參酌各界的意見那未來會在委員會議可以組成的時候來進一步來挑定他的確定的版本這段期間我們還是持續請平台業者來相關要有一定的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4197.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4212.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
持續落實自立然後也在民眾端來做一些教育宣導跟素養的培力部分主委我們來看看啦我們在過去都希望平台自立啊是一個他們重要的責任那我們看看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4214.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4240.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
在去年7月所公布的這個初稿就是網際網路傳播政策白皮書的初稿平台自立也是這個初稿裡面一個重要的願景但是平台自立還是有它的侷限性它缺乏平台的內容審查的透明性跟審查邏輯的一個說明另外也沒有申訴的制度或者是救濟的程序那言論自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4241.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4260.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
恐怕也會受到隱形的一個壓抑我們也清楚有這樣的一個問題那這樣排序 等隱性的這種懲罰沒有資訊揭露的一個追溯的可能那像這種平台自立的問題啊那NCC的想法是怎樣 政策對應是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4262.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4284.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
師傅跟我們回報大概分幾點第一點我們就是剛剛就這一頁的簡報提到關於申訴救濟這一塊我們會在沒有作用法之前我們會訂一個軟法就是訂定一個指引然後也會訂定多方利害關係人來運作一些指引那至於其他部分細節部分我們師傅容我請我們主任來說明一下主委我來趕快簡短說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4286.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4306.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
是那個委員剛才催詢的部分那我們就是說收集了各方的意見包括五個公民團體很重要的意見那其中有那個兒少的單位團體也給我們很多的指教包括希望說納入西亞系一些條款那我們就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4308.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4335.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
未來會參佐相關的意見然後做一些調修那提到到時候委員會能夠合法組成的時候主委這種網路是公共論壇的一個重要的場域啦那其實我們看到民主先進國家歐美啊除了平台的自律之外有一個重要的國際趨勢就是將問責也逐步的納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4335.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4360.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那我們要比照是不是會考慮比照歐盟或者是比照歐盟他們針對高風險的這種內容的推波還有演算法的一個歧視或者是帳號濫用的情形他們會進行風險評估跟定期的揭露報告我們會不會採取這樣的一個趨勢來說明一下是的 那早期 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4361.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4385.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
歐盟的DSA這些機制我們當時也有跟國際來對接來處理那前幾年訂定的訴訟法是有這方面的一些借鏡的處理那因為當時社會各界沒有共識所以這邊暫時還沒有往前推進但是我們在這個沒有作用法的情況之下自律是也是舉世 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4386.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4412.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
各國主要的一些處理的一些方向我們這邊就強化治癒強化平台的自立跟透明透明包括剛剛委員提到的申訴救濟還有它演算法如果把你下架那些東西它的必須要機制透明所以我們才會剛剛跟委員報告說我們會先起來促進自立之外還要訂定一些指引來讓他們來遵循當然他們如果內容有違法有違反的話會有對應的一時的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4415.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4437.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
機關來處理像兒少部門很多都是衛福主管機關來會有一些處理主委我們來看跨國平台其實我們看到我們監管的職責其實是不清的啦那NCC是否是主責其實這個也沒有說明的很清楚另外也沒有這一種跨國平台他有具體的落地 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4438.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4460.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
或者是他有沒有稅責的問題或者是有沒有審查的義務其實都造成了執法的一個真空那另外政府也缺乏這種對於兒少演算法這種風險他的一個具體的政策空間那其實我認為我們面對跨國平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4461.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4470.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們的政策因應不能只停留在國內的對話如果政府無從問責那無從規範這種數位主權跟資訊的自治就會形成空談 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4477.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4495.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那NCC是不是會規劃我們應該跟蘇發部還有法務部衛福部等相關單位來研議是否成立這種跨部會的選擇機制來明確的界定這種跨國平台的監管的職長來 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4497.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4516.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
說明一下是的這一塊我們都持續收集國際的發展趨勢在國內部分也跟像數位部等等來同時來一併來協商處理討論特別是數位經濟跟廣告投放那一塊目前是比較明確是由數位部來處理那其他部分那會延續先前 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4519.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4544.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
最後因為時間的關係我簡單說明一下我們對數位治理責任我們的一個未來的展望那其實我們必須要重新檢視網際網路傳播政策白皮書這樣的一個粗搞的內容我有三點建議NCC必須由平台共識邁向制度的一個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4545.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4556.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這是要做的另外也儘速要對接國際法律的規範跟趨勢就是建立duty of care就是注意義務的這樣的一個規範另外我認為應該要優先處理兒少的隱私 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4563.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4581.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
風險的揭露以及資訊自主啊這三大核心的一個保障來主委讓你最後簡單的說明是那謝謝委員的提點這方面我們會持續來精進那像二哨隱私部分目前相關的IRIN的處理的量能部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4582.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4601.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
還搭配著兒少法相關的法尊一些執法跟業者的法尊部分我們都會持續來跟平台業者來持續溝通我們也有辦一些不管是找業者來做專業的培育跟跟民眾培育培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培養培 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4612.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4618.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝李崑澤委員的執行現在請蔡其昌副院長執行謝謝主席請主委好 陳代主委委員早 主委早 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4645.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4669.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我們今天還是就那個打詐的部分這個之前我們之前我們在這個倡導簡訊的這個111過去我們一度認為告訴民眾只要收到簡訊的title是111大概就確定這個不是詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4671.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4696.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
曾經好幾個月我們都在宣導這個事情那看起來最近又有一個案例用移動式2G的移動式基地台他只要移動到某一個區域進行蓋台他就可以發111的簡訊現在還有多少人可以收到移動式2G的基地台 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4697.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4725.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
的這種111的簡訊比如說我的手機是5G嘛那我收得到嗎新出品的手機收不到除非有去改動它的人機介面把2G default的啟動把它開為啟動把它打開嘛好 那主委那現在如果以不打開的情況底下我們國人還有多少人會受到這種移動基地台 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4726.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4745.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
造假111簡訊的影響大概都是112年9月1號刑事證證手機以前的產品以前的手機比較舊的比較會有可能那就針對這個偽2G基站的發送部分我們大概跟業者跟電證隊跟刑事檢查局都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4746.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4772.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
都有一個聯防措施喔那剛剛委員提到說近期破壞南北各一個偽基地台部分發送就是南部在使用的情況就是在系統端也是事後部分我們我跟業者跟電信偵查大隊會有一些協助處理那手機端剛剛跟委員報告部分我們在其實在112年9月1號的我們有要求業者9月1號112年9月1號 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4774.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4795.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
新認證的手機必須要那個系統軟體端就設定說國內發的二級簡訊是不予接收的那後來這部分有一些局限性被詐團知悉了他就用一些特殊的方式來處理那但是我們持續精進我們今年今年5月1號以後的安卓手機跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4796.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4798.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那主委那我請教你明天如果一個人收到111的話那他可信或可不信 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4821.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4829.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
就是說我們過去一直在告訴大家111沒有問題你只要看到111100%就是政府發的那現在這樣的宣導可以持續嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4831.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4857.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
可以持續 但是這段期間在這個手機端完全這個正確D4OFF的覆蓋率百分之百之前會有灰色地帶會有少部分人會收到那應該就是說現在還不可盡信啦可能maybe還有幾因為我剛剛在問你數字嘛就還有多少人基本上在NC掌握的資訊裡面還有多少人還可以收到這種移動式詐騙基地台的這種一一一一簡訊還有多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4858.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4883.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
詳細數據我這邊是沒有 但是根據我們國人手機汰換的一些週期評語的話應該是 因為應該還有 應該可能會有五分之一左右的人那算起來數量很大 是有可能 還很大喔所以我建議說 如果你們 因為過去我們一直在宣導這件事情那我覺得這時候你應該 還有如果 不要說五分之一啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4884.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4896.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
不要說五分之一 十分之一的就很大了十分之一的量 他收到111是詐騙簡訊的機會就很高囉十個裡面就有一個 你想十個號碼裡面就有一個號碼收得到這個很可怕嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4896.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4915.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以我們也會持續懷疑對簡訊面容的時候要打165來確認對所以你還是不可以宣導111是可以就你直接就相信這一定是政府的簡訊嘛所以直到你剛剛想過你怎麼去補破網補好之後再來宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4917.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4926.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
主委可不可以 就這件事 跟蘇發普溝通一下可以 沒問題因為這個看起來就不是嘛 過去宣導111是絕對沒有問題 絕對安全我認為這個資訊都是錯誤的因為你剛剛講數量 我認為五分之一還很大啦 還很大也就是十個電話號碼當中 有五個可能還會收到 111是詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4940.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4965.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
但是隨著時間往後推就會快速下降所以你等到快速下降譬如說你認為全台灣可能百分之一或千分之一的時候你再來講這件事情或許比較合理這個階段你告訴大家這111我是建議應該我們在這裡要澄清111在這個階段並不是不需要查證一定是政府發給你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4966.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4990.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
委員說得對,這邊我會跟數位部來協力處理好,那另外我們一般講外籍人士的卡現在的我們外籍人士的預付卡用預付詐騙集團買外籍人士要離境之後的預付卡來進行詐騙犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4992.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4997.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
主委這個狀況現在的比例上數量有沒有下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4999.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5025.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這部分我們有在進行清查從去年11月還有223萬我們現在已經清查完100多萬清查完只要他依據打造條例只要他已經出境或者他的預期距離我們都會給你斷話目前已經斷了14萬那不符這個資格他來新申辦的我們也拒絕了11.4萬這個比例我們會期待在8我們要求電信業者在 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5026.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5046.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
八月以前全部清查完畢這塊的話清查完畢之後它比例會逐漸下降所以清查完畢之後等於如果外籍人士離境就應該給他斷訊是應該這麼說嘛對好那這個速度可能要能夠盡量請電信業者加快因為這一塊的犯罪還是持續的還是數字還是在嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5046.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5067.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
對 像中華電信它就有在我們要求下 它六月份就會全部清查完成好 這個我覺得緊盯啦 那狀況怎麼樣再給我一個報告好 沒問題這個我覺得是我們要想辦法把詐騙的根源都一一把它切斷好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝蔡錫昌副院長現在請魯明哲委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5079.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5093.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
好謝謝主席有請NCC陳主委陳代主委好各位主委事實上上次問過了啦剛剛有很多委員也問過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5095.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5110.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那我再請教一下最主要是說我們從去年四位委員卸任算一算7月31號然後就剩三位嘛你是其中一位嗎四位到11月30都還有四位好 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5111.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5126.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那就請教一下你是那三位之一嗎現在的是那現在到現在將近兩三百天這個部分因為剛剛委員也認過名單卡關當然在第一階段是原始的第一波的一個名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5127.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5142.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
事實上在立院大家有新舊不同的院長提名的一個爭議問題這個跟不光是哪一個黨派的問題後面發覺委員會不管是藍綠都沒有去排進入去審議這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5144.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5164.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那卡關之後我也覺得很奇怪啦當然你說這是社市行政院的一個權利啦那從去年的這個11月12月說新的名單會出來到就是這個月5月要出來看樣子你們有聽說這個馬上會停嗎還要到6月呢有沒有消息啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5166.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5176.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
公文報告沒有因為是在NCC組織法規定是行政院的職權我們這邊相對沒有角色就完全不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5177.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5195.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們有適當的反應那我相信行政院方面應該也知道NCC的情況這困難在哪裡還沒找到中心的是不是還是有沒有聽說還沒找到效忠的還是不夠專業的不在我個人的了解範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5197.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5219.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
好 那在你的業務方面 那NCC的業務這個現在這是你們回報了 回報說目前帶委員會來審議的一些的這個案子嘛包括重要的計畫 包括了這個通訊傳播業務包括公告許可相關的一個處分的案件那總共將近200多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5221.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5248.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
其中好像請教這麼多個案件等委員會正式成立才可以處理其中目前看到其他項的前面涉及內容違規代開罰的案件開罰的案件剛剛有問了經過你們外部的諮詢外部的諮詢廣告諮詢審議已經送到委員會代審的部分據說有14件你了解嗎是不是差不多是這件數 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5250.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5275.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
好 三案十四件因為事實上這個大概也累積了將近差不多將近三百天那累積成十四件我就請教一下因為在過去我們透過了衛星廣播電視法第27條主要是沒有查證的義務違反公共的一個利益等等其實罰了不少的一個媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5276.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5301.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
但是大家都想這一陣子因為委員不夠所以感覺都沒有人被罰是因為委員會沒辦法開會那這個部分如果有違法違規那按照本法五十三條大概可以罰二十到兩百萬所以你們外部自行委員包括你們都會去討論每個情節不同大概要罰多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5302.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5316.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那我就覺得有點奇怪你覺得十四案十四案會不會消化得太好了因為在去年的下半年去年的第三劑跟第四劑 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5318.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5345.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
總共784件的檢舉案當然每個檢舉案有些是不見得是針對這個檢舉案我理解啦然後再加上今年上半年啦我覺得一年啊 估一千案我也包括委員也有去跟你們去正式公文去檢舉都有來源不同有沒有有直接在你的網頁有打電話的各種的一個情況啊但我覺得你們現在消化在我看起來消化的能量是不錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5346.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5364.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
能吃能喝1000件消化成14件大概是什麼原因你能不能說一下因為很多是重複同樣案有對同個電台的節目重複很多人去檢舉所以多案其實要處理的電視台其實就會移案類似這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5365.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5393.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
好 那這個部分我們也不希望有什麼樣的誤解我們希望在下次的這個部分針對於所以檢舉案件你怎麼去消化的讓我們知道一下譬如同樣一個案子有可能有50個人檢舉100個人打同樣的有可能 這我接受但是到底怎麼樣去消化的一個過程我想這對我們交通委員會的一個委員我們希望去了解一下因為很多民眾在問他的檢舉是不是不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5395.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5409.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
這個部分但我們知道說假設一千多件現在最終目前待審院剩下14件那我們希望能夠進一步了解相關的資料可以給我們的委員來了解參考嗎在可以介入的部分我們會給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5412.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5429.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
接下來這個今年度上半年跟下半年整個的一個執照要換照大概總共加起來有87家了包括了無線電視包括了這個衛廣事業還有這個有線電視無線電視大概都有那這個的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5433.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5450.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
現在確實有一些擔心的你們這邊大家業者擔心的問題你講了很多次嘛就是說系統經營者他的法規是不得傳送未經中央主管機關許可頻道供應事業的節目或廣告啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5451.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5470.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
如果有的話是有罰則那你們現在解答是如果播送雖然你還沒有換照那這個部分以你們答的就很斯文我們會以收聽者這個權益跟整整整體公共利益為優先考量那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5471.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5489.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
是到底如果換照沒有成功按照有相關的違法疑慮的話你們都會不處理還是你會突然覺得我感覺有一個比較沒有符合公共利益所以我們還是按照這個來罰到底大概一般的原則到底怎麼樣請你再說一次剛剛委員提到關鍵字 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5491.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5512.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
他不是換照沒有成功是因為我們這換照程序還在程序進行中還沒有上委員會所以他是類似處於效率未定狀態所以他跟換照不成功是不相等的這第一點補充第二點補充武廣的部分他如果說他要把它取消的話那也要 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5513.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5541.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
取消他的大照也要經過委員會那基本是目前沒有委員會所以剛好沒辦法處理有線電視上頭的頻道部分上下降與否那基本頻道要經過委員會審議那現在也沒有委員會所以剛好會有兩個法規這個法規跟基本頻道要送NCC委員會審議這兩個法規剛好是在這個特殊情境之下剛好是協力可以讓收視聽眾的權益可以維持下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5541.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5560.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
好的因為你這個就是有很多擔心的要聽你整個做一個這樣的一個說明啊再來我們有看到你通訊傳播這個監督管理基金啊每一年啊去補助我們看到了很多那個機關啊團體啊那這個的部分那績效如何啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5561.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5589.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
您每天的每一年的一個補助啊你預期的效益是如何有沒有達到各位媒體包括就了解內容處這邊透過有限電視補助有限電視業者製作地方特色的一些成績起碼有29部我印象中是有29部那這邊沒有啦我先問你左邊這個啦通訊傳播監督管理基金啊每一年大概50萬到90萬嘛那個的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5590.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5611.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
效果如何?通傳基金這邊的補助是也是讓活絡社會上各個跟傳播相關的團體繼續國內的一些這個傳播的一些量能也讓國內的一些產業傳播產業不管是製波那方面會有個互動也會有所以不必有什麼KPI啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5612.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5628.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
就是非帶營養 社會不理補助完 大家開心 happy 拜拜明年再來不過您有什麼KPI嗎這邊細節我請副組長補充時間到了啦有沒有什麼KPI你們自己去事後能夠補充資料給我啦再來一個有線電視廣播這個基金的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5631.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5658.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
你過去三年我們看了也補助了兩千萬我們看到有些有線電視它製作的節目確實有進步但是我們覺得滿可惜的很多精彩的節目都在很冷門的頻道默默的 默默的放那我覺得因為當然這個沒有要怪誰你知道嗎因為有些熱門頻道新聞媒體的頻道那本身有線電視它的廣播的業者自有的頻道 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5659.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5680.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
本身就沒有這麼熱門但是我是覺得應該你們要建議他輔導他他們這麼認真去採訪的這麼深入的一個節目要透過了除了他的頻道之外能夠深入用網路用推播的一些技巧讓更多人可以去接觸到這個有沒有辦法去這個有沒有辦法做 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5681.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5692.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們現在已經有做透過連結到社群網站的YT或者其他的播送平台他們都有在做而且有些部分也有得獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5693.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5713.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我知道你要注意一下點播率最後一個這是你們自己做的113年去年度通訊傳播市場的一個整體報告各類的其中就維持原來水準的就是受眾覺得跟平常水準差不多的大概7成覺得更糟的10.3%我們就覺得更糟的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5717.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5743.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
到底發生什麼事情這是因為你們的報告我就詢問一下因為這中間幾個理由啊重播率太高八成然後這個政論節目太多政治偏頗缺乏多樣性播出集數過多脫戲那這個部分裡面有什麼一個報告之後有什麼具體的一個措施讓相關的可以處理的一些業者有什麼改善的空間嗎最後一個問題請您來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5745.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5774.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
是的那在我們的傳播法規上會有一些對於相關頻道的一些本國自治力的會有一些基本要求他們必須要在這個這條基本要求線上以上否則就是違法就會有罰則那其他部分我們尊重這個媒體他們的編輯自主這部分那當然觀眾反映的意見也是我們也會讓事實也會促也會不斷的在評鑑換照裡頭要求業者來往更 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5775.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5804.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
向上提升好啦因為你花了這麼多經費做了一個整個市場報告真的好的你們要去鼓勵啦好不好不好的要改善好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝魯明哲委員的執行現在請林俊憲委員執行好感謝主席本席邀請我們NCC代主委好陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5808.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5825.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
委員好 主委好 主委我們5月19號發生在新北三峽的那個重大車禍你還記得嗎 記得 甚至有不只肇事 有人不幸死亡 甚至有學生也罹難 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5826.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5842.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
這是5月19號發生的那發生這個當然是重大新聞幾乎所有全國的媒體都做了非常量很大而且很仔細的一個報導那NCC5月21號有發布臉書來要求廣電媒體自播新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5849.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5876.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
要有一定的原則自律為什麼NCC在5月21號要發布這樣的一個聲明因為在這個事件發生以後各媒體的報導包括有現場有血跡的還有肇事者臉部很清楚滿臉是血的那這個畫面其實適合來由媒體來播送嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5878.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5906.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
所以NCC有訂出一個原則啦對不對有你有提出一個規律啦 應該這麼講啦是 這是剛剛委員講到這邊的四點齁那另外其實 通案上如果新聞報導它應該是屬於普遍級的如果它過於血腥這部分其實會違反節目分級那我要跟請教戴主委齁 陳主委齁你5月19號發生錯誤喔5月19號開始啦 一天兩天整天新聞都是在報導這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5908.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5928.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
NCC5月21號才發出這個聲明你這聲明有四點我覺得你這四點沒有問題那你為什麼拖了兩天新聞報導已經快要已經引起很多人的議論了有很多爭議性的畫面不應該出現了 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5929.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5951.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
你ACC才出來講話ACC有提四點第一個避免過度呈現令人驚懼的畫面對於意外災難現場拍到的影像必須嚴格審慎篩選後才得以播出這第一點ACC的聲明第二個對意外災難事件的慘狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5953.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5975.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
不做特寫拍攝 若你沒有辦法避免 那麼應該要做後製的剪輯予以處理第三 不要使用過度悲傷者痛苦的影像若有必要 那應該要審慎過濾 而且絕不濫用並且不要重複播放 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5976.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5986.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
第四點 災難悲劇發生一段時間以後那麼你應該要考量這種受難者 災民的心理傷害避免引起負面效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5987.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6009.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
你要補充什麼是 各位補充報告其實這些只是我們在個案上的提醒其實通案上他們 我們在108年就把那沒有用啊 有用嗎我們所以才在重大事件的時候要提醒他們你19號發生 看當天的新聞報導你應該就要提醒所有的相關播出畫面的媒體啦對不對你為什麼21號再提這個聲明因為你發現啦哇 這個報導已經有一點超過 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6018.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6044.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
就是說你的那個原則了所以你才21要補這個聲明嘛來我再給你看下一個新聞這個你的聲明裡面也有提到像這個一個受難學生的同學吧還是學姊他受訪的時候這個學生很明顯的情緒已經失控他們痛哭啊那這個畫面也全程的拍攝播放這個就是在你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6050.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6059.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
又在你的 這個是第二天的新聞 5月20號在你的原則裡面有提到的 恩賢心呼籲的不要過度使用悲傷者痛苦的形象 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6061.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6088.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
對跟我們報告平常時期其實我們就108年給他們一個自律規範108年公協會所以他們都會我們都要求他們持續要落實他們的自律108年你去年啦去年再發一次啦108年108年發什麼現場有誰記得你去年2024年12月不到半年前NCG就發布一個網路新聞自律原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6089.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6104.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
對 就是網路的部分那你還扯到108年你去年10月發的都不好啊因為108年發的有什麼用去年的是網路新聞剛剛講的是其實最最容易最容易觸犯的其實相關的網媒 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6106.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6121.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以你才特別針對網路新聞因為目前針對網媒你沒有無法可管嘛所以你特別在公布這樣的一個自律原則啦那其實不管什麼樣的媒體啦我認為媒體的對於類似這種重大事件的報導在國外怎麼做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6126.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6155.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
自律是其中一個啦 就自律他律嘛就法律的規範還有媒體的自律嘛其實NCC只能做的就是呼籲啊要自律 所以你提的都是一些自律原則包括建立內控先速管道回應 保護兒少權益 維護新聞自由 尊重隱私貫徹事實查爾 錯誤報導 你就寫這些原則啦我們來看一下國外的做法啦像英國啦英國是impressed德國是 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6156.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6185.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
PrestradPrestradPrestrad這個也是德國的一個這兩個in place是英國的一個自立組織啦德國的他們都有相關的新聞準則就是呢我們媒體在做相關報導的時候啊那大家有一些彼此的一個自己的一個約束那台灣啊NCG就像你講的108年開始NCG很想做這個方面的事情啊也很想成立這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6186.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6199.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
的一個組織啦就是由各媒體大家這是自願加入的喔在國際上這些都是自願加入的但是他鼓勵媒體自願加入因為你只要加入啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6200.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6214.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那這個獲得這個組織的認證那對於你這個媒體本身就是說你的新聞內容報導還表示有一定品質還有你這個新聞媒體的定位也可以得到就是說這個組織的認證社會上的一個肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6218.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6242.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
對 那根本回報我們國內其實也朝這方向來做那之聲簡報提到這兩個都是也是第三方也不是政府當然但我們今年度大概也會推一個網際網路上的新聞媒體的一些防護的機制我們去年12月發布了網路新聞的自立原則草案那進一步我們會推動它有個組織化來處理你是去年7月就開會要討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6245.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6260.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
討論以後搞了半年去年12月發布你剛講的原則草案嘛然後到現在6月了還沒看到草案我們知道你的時間單位是是一年為單位 半年為單位那你草案什麼時候出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6262.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6282.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我討論部分因為涉及到因為剛剛提到說我們為了要推組織加入這個組織所以他這個制裂原則部分我們必須要取得比較多數的共識目前會有一些部分還在西部的處理但是今年的防護機制我們會有一個案子在處理那今年會有相關單位來投標相信今年也會在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6282.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6289.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我們希望NCC在這方面尤其在這次的重大車禍事件上我們可以看出這樣的一個必要性好不好 我們會繼續努力請加油 請努力 謝謝主席 謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6310.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6331.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
謝謝林進憲委員的執行現在請陳樹業委員執行謝謝主席 請主席邀請陳代理主委好 陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6337.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6351.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
主委早安北溪今天跟主委討論有關這個兒少就是使用網路的一個狀況那我們知道就是因為這個網際網路的一個便利性跟方便性所以現在根據統計我們國人這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6354.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6371.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
使用手機的這個年齡真的是就是平均10歲就開始有自己的手機了那當然使用我想有時候可能更小因為我看發現現在很多父母那個可能兩三歲幼稚園開始在就是會透過這個平板讓他們看一些節目那根據這個兒福聯盟的一個統計就是台灣兒少社群媒體影響的概況有一個調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6382.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6403.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
就是平均10歲就擁有自己的專用手機然後11歲就自己創社群媒體的一個帳號那高達9成5的兒少有在使用社群媒體所以這樣子的一個狀況事實上因為我們也知道這個網路上的一個訊息非常的複雜那也有很多負面的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6405.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6415.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
訊息所以這樣子對整個兒童的一個成長事實上身心的成長都有很大的影響那我們也看到就是說根據統計有過半數的兒少大概有56.6%在網路上有過負面的經驗那超過兩成的兒少曾經就是收到這個假訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6423.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6443.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那也有超過兩成的兒少曾經看到不符合聯名的廣告那也有超過兩成的兒少收到這個社群的影音或訊息所以這樣的比例是蠻高的那本席也曾經有受理過一個陳情就是他才高中 國一而已 他國一或國二 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6445.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6463.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這樣子的一個學生他就已經在做這個網拍網路的一個拍賣所以我覺得說這樣子讓我們就是發覺到這也真的是讓人家非常的震驚就是說現在小孩子使用網路在年齡層真的透露出他們真的很早熟 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6465.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6484.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那這個個案因為我受理的這個陳情它是類似疑似被設局詐騙所以我覺得就是說對這樣子的一個狀況真的是對整個兒少的一個身心成長真的有很大的影響那我想請教一下就是說我們NCC如何處理網路上有害兒少身心的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6485.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6508.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
好 那幾點跟委員回報第一個就是我們ECG兒少法是六條的召集相關機關設立成立一個INRIN這個組織機構來處理這個保護兒少的身心健康那另外在剛剛委員提到這個使用過早使用部分我們也依據衛福部相關的一些法令來在我們攝影器材3C產品裡頭會貼一些標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6510.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6536.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
提醒他們一天使用上網的時間這邊要有一個提醒跟注意不要過多暴露在這個上網時間避免網路成癮那第三個網路上的一些訊息很多種如果是有害的部分對應這個會有世紀事件會有相關主管機關來做一些法律上的處理在還沒有構成違法之前的那會有一些相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6537.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6563.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
平台上的也好會有一些自律社群守則跟使用規範我們這邊會要求平台業者來做持續的一些自律那當然在民眾端兒少端家長端親師端我們都會有做一些素養培力方面每年都會進行一些宣導像我們最近今年也會在某一縣市的國眾的聯絡部裡頭會有放一些宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6564.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6572.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
宣導一些使用上網安全的一些相關宣導剛剛主委有提到IWIN這個民間團體我們也看到就是說這個是我查到了這112年跟113年的統計數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6583.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6607.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那就是說在網路上而上會接觸到的類型大概有色情、暴力、血腥、恐怖或者是網路霸凌等等這些類型的一個申訴案那我們有發覺到就是112年跟113年那個受理的案件數真的是非常大幅度的一個成長那其中又以色情的這個申訴案件是最多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6607.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6633.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那當然我們受理之後我們看到就是說有分成說有違反法令跟有涉及兒少的那我們單看這個涉及兒少的這個色情的部分件數就成長了將近快三倍兩倍多所以這個數字是蠻驚人的所以在這個部分因為我不曉得說我們目前這樣子的一個民間委外 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6635.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6662.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
來處理這些案件那我不曉得說對於要去處理這麼多的一個案件在人力上足夠嗎在專業度上足夠嗎好 先回答委員最後的提問所以我們NCC有規劃說要把安慰法治化變成一個法人這時候我們會繼續努力那剛剛委員提到為什麼1213這個申訴案落差那麼大主要原因是因為113年有幾個重大個案特別是日本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6663.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6680.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
動畫一些被檢舉的那是海量檢舉到愛護那邊另外一個是有個幼稚園狼屍的案件那個是檢舉很多所以在前13年的檢舉量是遠遠高於年平均在過往一年大概3000多件去年大概6000多件是 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6682.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6703.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那我們也看到就是說我們IWIN在受理這些申訴案之後的一個處理狀況我們有分成就是處理跟不受理的這樣子兩個類別那有處理的話就是通知有我們可能就是ACC通知業者改善那或者是轉選擇機關或者是轉黑名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6706.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6733.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那在不受理的部分可能就是有一些理由來不受理可是我們也發現就是說這個不受理的一個比例也是非常的高所以我們也是希望了解說在判定不受理的這個件數上是不是會有漏網之魚這就是牽涉到專業度的一個部分那我們要怎樣讓這個部分能夠做到更完善當然剛剛主友提到說要法治化嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6734.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6757.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這個法治化有沒有一個期程大概什麼時候會來法治化我們大概去年就有提到院裡頭院裡頭現在有些意見我們還持續要跟相關部會溝通這第一點回報那第二點回報這個關於說的案件類型很多在處理上的量能除了法治化之外我們在先前也依據一個俄薩法四六條 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6759.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6781.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
這個處理機構IOWN的權責部分有些涉及不確定法律概念部分我們會有我們已經弄一個歷史框架在判定上在處理上會有一個準則所以有歷史框架出來之後那目前處理速度大概都還可以在預期的期間來處理那重大案件的話大概都會當天是一天兩天都可以處理掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6781.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6794.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那當然這個現在網路越來越發達使用人口一直往下降這方面的量勢必是會往上成長所以我們也期待這個法人化部分能夠盡快未來能夠圓滿能夠達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6797.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6814.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
是好 我再最後一個問題就是說同樣的就是因為這個兒少上網使用這個網路啊那當然就是說會留下這個數位的足跡嘛因為或許他是不經意的去分享或按讚或者是打卡等這個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6815.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6834.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那這個可能就是會涉及到他的個資的一個外洩包括他的年齡或者是相關的一些個資居住地也好或者是他的生日等等那在這部分我們有沒有去關注到因為我們看到就是說以這個網路受害的這個年齡 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6836.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6853.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
以0到17歲這個就是屬於兒少的這個年齡層他的這個受害的比例也是增加了33.2%所以這個狀況真的也是值得我們要去關注跟去思考要怎麼去解決這樣子一個問題那這部分我們NCC有沒有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6854.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6877.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這塊我們的提問就是像幾個國際BITTECH他們的平台其實各國先進國家歐盟也都有嚴重關注他們各自保護必須要做到他會有一些相關的法則那如果他們處理得不當的話會有一些團送那賠償都非常的巨量那國內的 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6878.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6898.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
這一部分我們也會持續跟平台業者相關的業者我們會有定期會有不定期的一些溝通告訴他們法尊事項兒少個資保護等等那民眾端我們也在做宣導希望使用者不管是家長也好要注意到說個資風險的一些處理要提醒注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6899.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6918.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
是好 因為我們就是說有金魚現在使用網路這個寧寧城真的是從很小就開始用這是一個目前我們真的是要去正視的一個問題那我們也希望就是說針對我們目前有顯現出來的問題我們要去好好思考相關的一個對策好 我們會繼續努力謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6922.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6938.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
謝謝陳樹業委員的執行特別跟委員會報告廖先祥委員執行完畢我們休息十分鐘廖先祥委員執行完畢休息十分鐘現在請何新淳委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6944.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6961.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
首先先謝謝昭緯的體貼剛剛在未還委員會這個針對兒童托育專法的一個提案說明有點delay到了總而言之謝謝昭緯那我趕到了那我們先請我們的主委陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6966.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6969.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
那本席有提案因為我長期來非常關注兒少那在NCC裡面就如同剛剛也有其他委員關注到兒少呢現在呢跟網路的連結 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6985.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7000.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
這個已經深入到生活的每一個層面那兒少的詐騙性剝削等等那網路呢現在看起來就是主要的管道那也嚴重的影響到兒少的身心健康我想我提幾個數字啦這個在5月2號就有媒體報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7003.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7031.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
內政部跟警政署還有衛福部就曾經統計過2024年3555名的遭性剝削的兒少這七成的案件都是透過網路媒介家福中心也告訴我們他們的調查報告兒少的數位足跡被掌握存在的安全的風險有半數的兒少就五成大概他們都認為可以在社群媒體上公開個資這是他們的認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7034.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7059.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
半數五成以上的兒少不知道如何設定社群平台的隱私權限這個我上次在質詢也曾經跟您說過那有些媒體的數位媒體平台有些可以呢讓這個兒少來設定這個隱私但是呢大多數的平台好像兒少都不知道那四成的兒少呢家長從未跟他們討論過網路安全的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7063.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7080.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
這些數字我跟你講看起來好像沒什麼但是如果細細思想你會讓人家很擔憂台灣對於這個兒少的網路的數位治理政策在我們的NCC裡面到底有沒有納入兒少保護的這樣子的一個考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7081.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7098.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
另外一個媒體說的 優活健康的一個媒體說的兒童的身心科門診近三年成長56%那性私密影像外流是智商最嚴重的危險因子智商的風險 自己傷害自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7099.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7117.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
增加了5.16倍的風險這些數字讓我們更擔憂我身為兩個孩子的媽媽家長我們都擔憂那所以面對這樣個資外洩性勒索風險我們NCC有沒有協助的角色又該如何協助主委你認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7118.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7145.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
好那關於這個志強的這一塊的話那因為我們今年3月14已經跟衛福部合作有個自殺防治的一些專線目前也受理80多件這塊我們會持續來努力那另外剛剛提到說兒少的足跡在社群媒體上會被掌握這個我們也在宣導上素養培育上要不斷提醒你講到這個來我現在接下來就要跟主委你討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7146.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7163.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
根據的兒少法第46條你NCC召集各機關委託民間團體成立一個內容防護機構就是防止兒童及少年接觸有害其身心發展之網際網路內容這個就是所謂的iWIN我們透過網路google了一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7164.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7185.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我們現在的兒少在他的生活層面就是上網他什麼事不懂也許不敢跟老師講也許不敢跟家長講他會問誰他會跟誰講他會跟網路問他會跟網路講那我們Google了一下目前我們在網路上如果有人上網去搜尋 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7187.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7212.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
兒少遇到網路上的事件的時候他要求助AI給他三個方式一個實體的113專線第二個線上的關懷一起來平台第三個就是iWINiWIN有沒有他的使命 有iWIN誰管 NCC管所以呢 主委如果兒少碰到網路的詐騙勒索不當內容可以向iWIN尋求協助嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7214.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7227.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
打165是最快165是詐騙嘛對不對可是問題是兒少他分得清楚有時候詐騙就衍生到性剝削那他到底是要去打哪一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7228.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7249.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
如果他透過iWIN來申訴的話iWIN那邊也會轉接到這個相關的機關165來來來我接下來就來跟你討論這個來來下一頁我剛剛講兒少法46條對不對46條裡面你主管的除了成立iWIN這iWIN裡面我們想當然而在法令上要求第一個兒童及少年使用網際網路的行為觀察 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7251.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7268.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
申訴機制就是IWIN裡面的其中一個內容的分級的推動跟檢討過濾軟體跟建立的推動兒童及少年上網安全教育宣導還有其他的防護機制的建立網路平台的不用說下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7270.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7295.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們既然主管iWIN平台我認為以現在只有申訴的表單而已不夠還可以做更多因為這是一個跨部會一起來參加由NCC組長的一個iWIN平台既然有跨部會那它的功能性應該要再加強我們看到有專家表示三成的青少年他被網路照片之後不敢說 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7297.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7316.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
不敢說 他不敢 我剛剛講的嘛 他不敢跟老師講 不敢跟家長講他只有找網路講嘛 所以當他Google的時候你知道嗎 我們可以理解 青少年擔心被責罵不被諒解那建議呢 青少年如果真的不敢跟家長說 至少可以跟信任的第三方訴說 尋求協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7319.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7337.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們認為孩子現在生活中就是網路是他生活中裡面接觸最長也最多的一個面向叫做網路這個管道那我們的iWIN這個申訴平台這個管道可以成為兒少的新任的第三方的申訴管道嗎 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7338.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7361.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
可以信任嗎安慰的時機跟credit其實是相當不錯的那剛剛委員提到的這一塊安慰做的不僅僅是申訴包括剛剛四六條議項所提到的一些職長事項他也有跟我們NC協力做很多的一些宣導主委我有進去看啊你裡面雖然有宣導啦但是宣導就是密密麻麻 虛書性的宣導啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7363.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7380.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
沒有還有去現場到走出去去現場對到現場到可能有一些學校啦或者是有一些社團啦或者是有一些青少年會到的一個場所你們去宣導啦但是那個都叫做不定期的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7381.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7408.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
而且沒有規律的那只是用抽查式的找到一個地方就去做宣導一年可能幾場我現在要講的是在你們iWIN平台裡面事實上可以做更多你看到申訴平台裡面我點進去就是這樣子的一個表單在這個表單裡面其實如果就一個兒童或是少年就是來看這個表單第一個我不知道怎麼填 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7410.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7425.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
第二個第二個除了不知道怎麼填之外第二個我要尋求協助我也許不是要提供一個內容那我可以怎麼樣來尋求協助在這個表單裡面我也看不到我可以跟誰尋求協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7428.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7455.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
跟我們報告iWIN的申訴管道至少有兩種一個是網路介面剛剛就是用簡報所提示另外是電話它透過電話裡頭就可以電話是哪一支電話好像2577多少我查一下我跟你講我點進去你那個iWIN的那個網站裡面我從頭到尾也沒有看清楚是哪一支申訴電話這個我們會提前iWIN來改進你是現在才告訴我有申訴電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7458.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7476.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
不然從頭到尾在那個網路裡面包括你說的宣導的那個按鈕按下去那個介面啪啪啪啪都述書性的說可以鎮定宣導那也沒有重點第二個我說我要申訴我要尋求協助我點進去就只有這個申訴表單嗎你上面沒有告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7477.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7479.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
有哪一個申訴專線啊那在這個申訴表單裡面說我建議可不可以再優化優化的更接近 接近兒少的實用的生活習慣跟他們的語言讓他們更容易能夠的尋求協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7499.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7522.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
好不好可以嗎好沒問題我們請他持續的優化改進不是這樣子硬梆梆的只有要求你提供然後通報啦有些青少年青少女他們呢就已經不敢跟老師說也不敢跟家長說我想要尋求協助但是我碰到一個冷冰冰的一個申訴表單我跟你講連我都不知道該怎麼寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7523.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7550.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
對不對所以我認為這個可以更優化啦這是一定做得到的啦好不好最後啦保障兒少的權益隱私網路的隱私我一直在提我在4月2號也是在本委員會在質詢你我要求你的政策白皮書應該納入兒少保護的相關的一個內容跟宣示你們的決心跟未來的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7552.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7572.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我講完不久就有其他媒體在4月25號說了NCC的白皮書兒少的網路隱私未入列那其實在你們之前白皮書的一些公聽會上跟相關的一個跟社會團體的溝通的場域裡面兒少及人權團體的代表就曾經提過意見啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7574.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7576.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
兒少應該是公聽會的重點但是沒有聽到更多的國際趨勢跟國際的最新的見解第二個美國兒童網路隱私保護法上路20多年了2.0版也在他們美國國會審議當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7589.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7606.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這台灣可以參考可是到目前沒有看到而且兒少跟人權團體也說過建議可以先從軟法的形式來要求平台進行兒少影響評估落實兒童權利公約可是問題是我們到現在在NCC的政策白皮書裡面我們都沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7608.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7617.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
根本包括在公聽會之後修正調整了嗎我們已經在整理已經整理了我們也會跟衛福部相關機關來討論說要如何適切的呈現 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7628.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7642.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
要多久的時間那我什麼時候可以看見在文組織法的部分屬於是重大的政策當然是重大政策啊所以要在委員會成立之後來處理但是目前的幕僚這個階段我們都持續在處理在整理 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7643.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7665.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那好吧 委員會還沒有成立之前你總可以告訴我你的幕僚作業需要多久的時間吧你不會一直拖到說要委員會成立之後你才要做我們儘快 公立會的意見整理現在已經整理得差不多了我們可以提供資料給委員好 我希望最快的時間內可以看到你們整理出來的草案好 謝謝好 謝謝何新淳委員的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7671.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7686.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
現在請廖先祥委員執行廖先祥委員執行完畢休息十分鐘謝謝主席喔那麼邀請我們陳代理主委好 陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7691.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7716.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
委員好請教一下今天還滿多的委員在關心NCC委員哪時候要提名要補的問題那之前其實在這邊也討論過啦您有說過這相關的權責不在你們身上嘛對不對那請教一下主委就是在我們NCC委員沒有補足的情況下我們NCC或是說您在推動業務的時候那目前有遇到哪一些實質上的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7718.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7741.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
就是我們在組織法9條2項6款相關的處分案跟公告案許可案特別是處分案裡頭涉及業者經營權的得上邊跟部分我們沒辦法處理沒辦法處理但是沒辦法處理不代表說我們完全沒有處理我們只是說處理到上委員會以前的幕僚作業階段就是跑100公尺跑到90公尺剩下最後10公尺沒辦法跑大概是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7742.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7768.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
所以就是會有一些業務確實委員沒有補齊的情況下造成我們NCC的一些業務他沒有辦法完全的去把它執行完那是不是也對主委造成一些困擾我們都是跟同仁大家一起努力盡可能在法律許可範圍內來維護廣大的收視聽眾的權益那主委你會不會期待行政院趕快把NCC的缺額把它補齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7769.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7785.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我相信應該 業者跟大眾應該都蠻期待的都蠻期待的 您也很期待所以大家都在等行政院 您也在等行政院我們看法大概都一樣好 謝謝主委 那我就不為難你了那接下來我們看一個影片有沒有聲音而且也有字幕 你再播一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7802.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7831.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
主委您知道這個片段嗎?這是大概在前一兩天的一個政論節目知道因為王委員昨天有來函NCC是 那主委先不論你是不是NCC的主委啦或者是說可能你對於你在NCC待這麼久啦你對一些新聞節目或者是政論節目你可能都會自己有一些期待那你看到這一個節目的內容主持人有這樣子的發言你自己有怎樣的一個感想? |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7833.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7854.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
先不用扯到法令啦 你自己的感想我的感想是 政令節目本身它就是它的自由度空間比較大但是只要在不虛格 只要在沒有違反法令的前提之下其實主管機關我相信全世界都一樣都會尊重媒體的編輯自主跟言論自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7854.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7870.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那你會樂見我們的台灣的新聞節目政論節目可能就針對特定的個案就預設立場性的未來要報表什麼然後來提出什麼批評我們對新聞的期待應該就是說我們的時事有什麼事情那我們的新聞媒體當然有它的權責 它有它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7873.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7883.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
權力在就是說他想要抱著哪一則新聞他要做怎樣的一個評論這是新聞媒體的自由但是在還沒有任何的事情發生的時候我的新聞就已經先告訴你我未來要針對某一個人去 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7889.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7909.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
多加的關注那關注完之後我不只是關注我要評論嘛我也不是客觀的評論我是要批評我要修理修理的意思應該是負面了吧我已經先預設立場了未來在針對這個人的新聞的時候出現我就是會報導我就是會批評不管他出現什麼樣的內容主委您期待我們台灣的媒體生態是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7911.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7917.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我相信大家的共識都行之在法令裡頭吳廣法的施行細則13條說新聞報導或評論要注重客觀公正確實然後衛廣法22條說新聞評論要注重正確平衡品味 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7930.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7954.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那如果他這邊有業者這邊做到有違反的話會經過民眾檢舉的話我們就會受理就會有一定的SOP來處理就比方說跟這一塊的話我們會促請他會提醒他違反事實查證會請他們業者的輪委會來先來表達意見然後來檢討我們再提供給我們我們內部受理完之後有進一步要往下走的話會到 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7955.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7976.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
對於修理這兩個字 主委聽起來您認同還是不認同在這個新聞評論的節目裡頭 我個人覺得常常聽到 我覺得這應該在事情還沒發生喔 還沒有說要報導什麼我就決定來修理你 這樣子是一個健康的媒體生態嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7978.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7993.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
如果是純粹新聞報導我相信一般是不會出現 但是這是新聞評論節目他的自由度會比新聞報導要稍微大一點所以那這樣子主委您是贊同所有的政論節目都可以有預設立場來評論社會的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7995.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8017.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們希望說他不要違法 不要違法 如果違法會有民眾檢舉我們就會來處理 好不好 拿出你的風骨啦拿出我們公務人員 拿出一個這個新聞媒體監理機關的一個主管機關的一個風骨啦那下一頁 其實類似的事情也不是沒出現過啦在108年的時候我們實際就針對中天新聞嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8018.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8035.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那時候我們就是對中天新聞對於某特定人物有違反公平的原則可能就是過度集中報導然後相關的報導都是你們認為評論沒有做好可能都是負面的一個批評所以你們發函給該家電視台 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8037.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8064.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那希望他們維護觀眾視聽的權益那也對電視台祭出多項的一個裁罰這件事情那時候您在NCC嗎是是嘛那如果說未來有相關的類似的情形不只是他現在只是宣示啦他會不會做我不知道如果他真的做了那節目那過度的集中報導那在報導之前已經先跟你講我都已經是預設立場了那你認為有沒有違反這第43條第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8066.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8070.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
類似的一個情況幾點意見跟委員報告第一點這個剛剛講的關鍵字是他宣誓的宣誓跟後來會不會做跟當年的個案其實還是有落差的當年個案是在宣誓不違法啦假設真的做的情況下 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8083.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8105.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
假設是做了情況之下我們當然我們MCC自我拘束的錢一定會根據過往的慣例來處理那另外跟委員特別報告這個108年這個個案他還有個特別之處是他當年在103年換照案的時候有個付款付款裡頭是要請他好好處理他們的新聞內控的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8106.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8130.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
他要設立一個獨立審查人他們那時候始終都沒有設立然後後來這個某些報導過於偏頗的情況之下那我們認定說你就是內控機制失靈因為我們我認為很多新聞台目前內控都是失靈但是這個機制當年這個案是他連付款的部分都沒有履行 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8130.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8151.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
好沒關係那就主委好不好就拿出我們主管機關的一個風骨那期待我們有一個公平公正的一個新聞環境我們尊重尊重這個評論的自由報導的自由但是如果是惡意性的一個報復或者是已經預設立場的一些相關評論的話我覺得這不是我們國人所樂見的以上謝謝委員指導好謝謝廖先祥委員的執行現在休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8178.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8183.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
韓國獨立公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8196.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8197.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8224.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8226.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這裏有個大廈,有個大廈,有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8247.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8247.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
蜂蜜 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8266.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8278.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8279.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8297.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
謝謝觀賞 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8301.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8302.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
在中午 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8334.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8339.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
這個花椒湯絕對不太適合你吃花椒湯的味道 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8360.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8361.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
鸡蛋糕 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8375.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8398.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
就是我們人做的一種工作是動態的我們現在不用做動態你們人員不起來就好 會有爭鬥的動態那樣的生意才能做到能夠把你生意做好那樣的生意才能做到能夠把你生意做好 會有爭鬥的動態那樣的生意才能做到能夠把你生意做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8402.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8405.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
你不想不动吗?你不想不动吗? |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8427.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8427.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8473.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8475.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8476.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8476.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
嗯嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8501.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8501.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8531.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8531.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8541.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8541.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8570.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8570.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
鞭筍 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8615.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8616.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
鸡蛋糕 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8628.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8645.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的食物 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8647.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8652.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的食物 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8668.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8669.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8696.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8697.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8725.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8740.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳的名字叫做雲林餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8754.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8778.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
好各位請就座現在請黃建豪委員執行好謝謝主席主席我們請NCC主委陳主委好陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8783.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8790.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
主委好主委好主委我想今天大家也真的跟北溪一樣關切一下你們這NCC委員名單的部分我想這個換屆以來這2024年去年4月30號 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8794.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8815.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
第一次呈現人前提名的翁柏宗等四位政務組委員人選因為那個時候他之前行政院院長我們那時候立法院認為說應該要尊重新的院長提出新的名單所以在上一批的名單裡面大概11月30號整個上一次提名的這幾位都卸任了11月10號到期 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8816.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8837.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我們看到卓榮泰院長上來之後在去年的11月28號我們這次全部都是搜尋中央社的新聞陸陸續報了幾次因為中央社畢竟是代表官方媒體的立場那從11月28號到現在第一次卓榮泰院長說緊鑼密鼓的偵詢中陸陸續講了幾次話那最近一次是 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8838.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8854.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這個月的5月2號卓榮泰院長說人選已經確定可能下週公布我想5月2號的下週應該是5月9號前那今天已經5月28了距離11月28第一個距離11月28已經過了半年距離5月2號也過了26天左右已經快要4週了 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8858.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8875.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我不知道這個主委對這個NCC名單委員名單有沒有什麼樣的消息有沒有什麼聽到什麼樣的可能性什麼時候才會提出來這個名單報告委員這邊無所知悉然後圈子範圍也不在NCC這邊所以這邊沒有特別評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8876.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8904.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
好 沒關係主委我不會特別為難你啦因為我以為你有消息了所以為什麼可以講出來呢因為你們今天送來的解凍報告裡面也包含了一項嘛就是這個一般行政中的政務人員待遇的預算的七分之四之前被凍結那你們今天提出要解凍那所以我比較好奇說你提解凍的同時是不是表示說這個不足的人選即將要提出來了所以你現在預先做了準備那如果毫無所惜那你這個解凍解凍完要放哪裡去 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8904.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8932.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
跟我們報告這個節奏條件是促請行政院趕快提名那我們已經做到促請這個動作我們有發函給人事總署人事總署也有轉函給行政院那邊所以我們就檢據資料在文書份報告裡頭來陳述說這個這個作為這個促請這個作為NCC已經已經到位了所以我們來來促請這個叫大會大委員會這邊好沒關係主委這是你的立場沒關係這個我想這樣啦因為待會可能也會來針對這部分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8934.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8954.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
解凍案來討論其他部分我沒有特別意見但針對這個我的建議是說我這邊表達一下我的意見就是真的如果這個七分之四的部分應該等你們先送至少先送名單嘛名單先送來了的同時可以解凍如果連名單都沒有然後我就解凍這我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8955.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8978.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
立場讓我們立場會很尷尬啦我現在解凍了那結果還是沒有名單那當初凍結理由其實還是存在啊好吧這是我的立場我跟主委先說明一下好沒關係我們先回到業務面喔主委這個人事部分就這樣子了反正這個我看主委你也沒辦法就是決定沒關係讓我們回到業務面啦我想大家還是很關心這個詐騙打詐的議題喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8981.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9000.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
之前我們諮詢的時候也提過很多次就是說包含說我們今天提出本期提出的修法裡面電信法第五條也針對也是這一類的這個二類電信的這個使用者那當然其中因為有最大宗就是所謂俗稱的外勞卡那他當然就是這個移工電話卡的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9001.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9027.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
還有黑莓卡的部分那去年就講了說要依據這個新的打炸釋法來審查這些東西因為我們我國這個依據統計目前移工人數合法的照這個數 上面上的數據有83.3萬人那失聯移工估計有8萬人所以合計起來大概90萬人左右但是我們這個售出的所謂的移工電話卡裡面大概有221萬支門號 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9029.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9058.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
它的售出門號有兩百多萬那實際上在台灣的移工不管失聯還是登地在岸的也九十萬人而已所以表示說我們售出的電話卡二點多倍甚至高達快要三倍左右的這個數字通常它是單獨過來的嘛因為按照我現行法律來講他們是移工來台灣理論上都是單身或一個人過來那他理論上也不會有這麼多卡片所以去年頒布了所謂打詐釋法之後就講說要來清查所謂的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9059.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9069.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這些外 這個所謂移工使用預付卡的部分 那我想知道到底從去年到現在清查了多少 還有多少的這些移工卡在外面流通 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9070.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9090.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
好那跟我們報告我們剛剛講到重點就是因為在台灣境內的外籍人士跟持有的預付卡人數是有落差所以我們分階段來清查3月份以前我們清查一陣多號的那已經清查完畢那剛剛去年11月總共外籍的預付卡有223萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9091.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9117.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那到4月底我們已經清查完103萬那委員會提到說已經停用多少我們已經停用了14萬然後只要他依據打造條例22條只要他已經促進或者預期拘留的部分我們會給他停止都停段的話然後其他的部分會請他重新來合資所以如果他資格不符我們也拒絕申請那拒絕申請的部分也有達到11.4萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9118.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9141.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那持續會進行清查大概我們預計到八月以前會全部三大電信業都清查完畢那中華電信走比較快到六月份就清查完畢所以你剛剛提到目前為止清查了一百多萬那停用了這十幾萬大概占一成左右那剩下那八十幾萬是都合法的嗎還是說還在清查中我想了解這個事情還在清查當中所以這八十幾萬也未必他在境內對 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9144.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9169.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
這個實務上他有沒有在境內不是是一個一言可之的事實嗎這個問題在哪裡為什麼這八十幾萬對我們來講比如說我人現在在台灣還是我在國外是不是比如查我的護照很清楚可以很清楚知道說我人在哪裡嗎但是移工他們入境也是使用護照出入境那這八十幾萬還沒找到的原因還不能定案他是在國內繼續工作還是已經出境了的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9170.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9190.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
根本回報主要原因是因為有的技術上的量能的問題因為我們查他原來在境內是只連到移民署的資料庫移民署資料庫本身他的作業系統白天比較忙怕會差許多影響他的怕他系統當掉所以會用比較深夜時段來查深夜時段來查也會有他的能量問題所以三大大概都會分開分時的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9193.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9218.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
所以這個量能的部分會有一個限制所以我們大概會沒辦法一次都可以查多少量雖然我們有拜託過移民署那邊去擴容那他們也做了適度擴容所以現在的進度是達到說目前還可以繼續來走下去那未來部分如果他們有年度那邊會有擴容進一步完成的話那以後查詢的量能會更好 查的會更快 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9219.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9245.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
主委這個是這樣 因為這樣聽起來是跨部會啦所以我是希望說你們在行政院會的時候應該也要讓院長知道這個事實就是說你很認真的清查一百多萬那是因為量能關係你現在只能找到十幾萬那表示至少八十幾萬不對 應該是一百加八十幾的部分還在外面流通那我們當然希望量能夠提升 速度能夠加快嘛是不是移民署不管是網站的狀況也好還是人力也好 能夠配合這個案子來辦理因為這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9245.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9265.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
不是針對移工啊這件事情其實是針對打炸它的層級應該是相對比較高的應該在打炸條例之下我們去做這個事情要不然就不用訂打炸條例了嘛我們在行政院打炸的工作小組那邊在那邊有討論多時的那相關部會大概都有討論過有共識的情況下採取目前可行的措施來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9266.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9278.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我們希望還是要加速 這剛好也配合了電信法第五條的修正二電信列管的部分 我想這是同樣的精神那我們希望這部分還是要加速啦 好不好好 我們要繼續努力 謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員的執行現在請喜智傑召委執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9293.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9317.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請主委好 陳代主委主委好 這個詐騙一向都是大家非常關心的議題那NCC對於詐騙的成果你覺得有沒有什麼成果或滿不滿意可以跟國人講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9317.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9319.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這個其實我在諮詢這邊也 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9343.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9358.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
講過了很多次那也希望說NCC可以更主動積極就是說從國外打來的詐騙電話要怎麼樣去把它攔阻下來那事實上我跟NCC要你們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9360.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9380.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那個資料就是說從112年5月份陸續實施啦那已經降低了從五千萬通降到五百萬通這個數據是你們給我們的你們自己清楚嗎清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9383.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9407.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這個坦白講啦 要給你們鼓勵一下啦這個已經攔掉了近九成嘛 對不對但是民眾好像不是那麼清楚我們會來持續宣傳 因為詐騙集團他從國際來話那邊 只要被我們擋住之後他都流到其他的領域 比方說網路啊 或者社群媒體那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9408.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9436.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
所以其實我要講的就是說今天我們有要求你們有做事然後也有一點成果那這個部分如果你沒有跟國人講國人不知道你們NCC有做這些事就像那個那個現在還有585萬通嘛那到目前為止不知道還有沒有在攔下更多啦那就這個部分是人工在 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9437.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9437.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
處理還是電腦在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9440.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9468.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
有些是大部分是電腦自動處理比方說當初它是偽冒國內的行動電話那我們透過三家來查說這個客戶根本沒有出國不可能海外賣魚回來那邊自動就把它攔住掉那另外一些偽冒國內的事化國內的事化台北的電話怎麼可能從海外打回來這些是自然判斷邏輯不對的異常部分就直接在電腦端就設定好就把它攔住掉OK |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9469.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9480.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
所以你們藍調的通數我就說先給你們鼓勵這個你們要宣傳啦這個那個你在從那個出國回來在機場可以買一條菸 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9482.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9503.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
啊可以買那個一瓶酒其他的不行對不對那國人大概都知道了嘛那你們其實有成功的攬下因為現在大部分的人民就覺得說反正我受到詐騙的話就很討厭然後就是政府沒做事這個就是一般就會人家人民就會這麼想嘛那當然就是說585萬通 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9506.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9521.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
坦白講還是很多很多很多啦那也是還是很多人民受騙啦所以就是說我們應該是分兩個部分來講就是說你今天有做事你必須要宣傳讓人民知道我們NCC幫忙做了多少事擋掉了多少的詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9523.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9534.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那當然就針對這585萬通我們還有什麼機會可以再去改進再去減得更低我想這個就是一個態度嘛所以我是希望說你們剛剛說用電腦去阻攔的話那 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9538.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9564.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
因為你背後就是V2V2C嘛那C如果是說詐騙的民眾V如果是我們中華電信的這個hub然後原來的V是詐騙的集團那你今天這樣子一個處理的方式是不是有機會你把那個電腦的程式或者是在引進AI的學習模式可以把這個詐騙的 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9566.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9595.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
分類然後學習然後攔阻可以更有效率好這個部分我是建議NCC可以考量一下是那其實在簡訊的部分業者也要引入AI三大都有語音的部分他們也有適度的一些用AI的一些能力來處理OK那包括你們的語音的接聽警示啦接聽警示這個其實我是覺得還不錯啦那有沒有什麼你們覺得成果可以跟人民報告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9596.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9612.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
好 那其實在這個我們會適當的在適當的不管是FB還有相關部分我們會適當的就微音的指示部分就我們目前辦的一些努力部分來適當的對外揭露今天重點就是要跟NCC |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9613.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9631.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
討論就是說你要盡量去把你的成果跟需要精進的技巧然後可以在攔阻的問題這些做一個整理然後跟人民報告或者是做一個宣傳讓人民知道事實上真的有做的事情其實五千幾萬通費實在是很嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9634.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9663.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我都等到五百多萬通 也算有水準了啦當然五百多萬通對民眾來說 還很困擾啦要怎麼讓他錄影啦我是覺得這個部分 希望NCC也讓人民知道我們政府有在做事然後需要在精進的作為是什麼希望說這個可以思考一下好 精進作為部分我們主要是在網路電話這塊來處理我們目前也有做一些攔阻那未來也會做語音警示的來處理好 那再來就是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9664.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9677.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
你們電信業務管理費就是上次的那個那部分我們現在322位目前已經有有80%已經完成退費了 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9677.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9704.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
好 因為時間差不多了 所以我再跟你們強調一次就是說你今天是公司的不收費嘛 對不對 公司的要收費嘛個人帶三個以上的要收費兩部以下的不用收費那你現在未來還有可能再增加的部分那你們這個機制我想你們也要把它訂一個合理的收費標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9705.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9716.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
是 我們現在同仁已經在嚴謹在進行所以我講的就是說你今天慢慢的有那個態度就是說你今天有做的今天有322個人退款已經退了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9717.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9742.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
已經退了80% 80%已經退了有些是聯絡不到或是他的退款的帳號會有一些問題沒關係 這個我是要提醒你就是說這個算是NCC有改善的部分我們有要求有改善的部分那也確實有成果還沒有做完的趕快把它做完做完以後就是說可以跟民眾知道一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9743.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9768.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
然後再來就是說未來有可能再增加的部分你們要怎麼樣去防範怎麼樣去定一個更合理的標準我希望說這個部分也希望NCC可以考量今天質詢的兩個重點一個就是你們有做的讓人民知道要再改善的部分也讓人民知道你用什麼方法這兩個概念希望說NCC可以多講啦不要人家說你都沒做事情了了解我的意思嗎有做的就是要說啦好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9773.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9797.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
謝謝喜智傑召委的執行現在請習護魁委員執行謝謝主席有請陳代理主委好陳代主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9799.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9825.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
主委長辛苦主委我想這個我們的這個國家通訊傳播委員會的委員空轉已經五個月了那當然我們知道行政院長主委院長最近有明確提出要這個確定人選的一個提案但是到目前為止還在等候名單那我想剛剛我們有許多的委員也都有特別關切這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9826.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9842.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那所以我想我們還是期待行政院趕快提出名單但是也請我們藍白委員不要惡意杯葛啦這個沒有人就沒得做事啦我們也是盡快希望這個名單能夠確定之後然後整個讓我們整個監理制度整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9843.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9859.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
NCC的運作能夠正常順利但是到目前為止主委我們目前貴會剩下3席委員那這段時間面臨的一個實質決策跟一個推動的一個困難的問題我們怎麼去克服這些的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9860.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9888.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
就是我們在去年7月31號以前有修改了一些相關的授權規定就是在組織法9條2項6款的法律保留的事項之外我們有授權說在代理組委或委員會議無法組成情況之下一樣可以處理所以目前大概是我們就可以處理部分都持續來處理那不能處理委員會議保留事項部分我們也會請同仁一定要做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9889.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9916.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
上委員會前的幕僚階段的作業都要完成就像我一直跟外界舉的例子假設到委員會的是要跑100公尺我們都希望能跑到90公尺就是我們還是照這個該走的程序在進行然後到最後再來做處理啦是主委我想這個問題當然就是我們也是希望能夠盡快解決不過在於這個整個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9919.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9938.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
櫃會確實在不管是交通部就是在這個整個內閣來講這個好像看起來是我們在野黨很有興趣的一個單位我想這個當然有一些的時空背景不過真的不能再拖延下去畢竟我們的背景很重要那另外我想針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9939.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9965.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
新聞更正跟答辯權的制度再請教一下主委主委我想我自己本身也是媒體出身那我認為新聞自由是民主的根本價值那所以說話的自由應該是雙向的不是只有單向的一個回應那目前我們的這個新聞更正跟答辯的一個制度多數仰賴於媒體的自律或是NCC的行政指導跟德國法國還是不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9966.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9972.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那主委認為我們這個部分是不是應該參考歐陸的一個制度建立一個更明確的一個程序跟實現 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9974.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9998.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
跟人報告確實就是我們這部分其實在我們報告有提到這個權力就地部分其實有往前優化了那目前因為發動方都必須要是被報導人物這一塊在我們衛廣法44條有答辯的一些規範44條有更正的規範那如果覺得他的權力有受到損害在民事上其實也可以用衛廣法45條來做一些賠償損害的一些訴求處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10002.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10023.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
主委這點也是我覺得過去NCC一直會被攻擊、被質疑的點所以我覺得這個東西真的很重要要不然未來你們在執法上面人家總是找麻煩川某求是你們不管怎麼判、怎麼處理都會有問題所以應該是不是趕快把它制度化做一個比較明確的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10024.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10045.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
有都是現在剛剛就是衛廣法有相關的規範倒是武廣那邊是相對應的比較沒有那麼明確那未來我們管理三法修法也就是會拉齊這兩部法的部分但是目前主要新聞頻道大概都是拿衛廣執照所以這邊大致上是比較沒有問題這規範都已經到位了 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10046.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10061.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
主委所以我還是建議一定要建立制度化公開化程序明確的一個更正跟答辯的機制這不斷是對媒體的一個保障也是對民眾的一個信賴對社會一個進步的一個象徵這點我想我們繼續來努力啦好 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10062.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10090.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那另外最近媒體有報導中國的平台小紅書主委知道嗎?嗯 知道最近陸陸續續出現了我們空軍花蓮基地的一個部署的影片甚至有民眾在平台上也發現了大量的一個血統的一個正面的影像甚至有疑似的中國直播組在校門口拍攝的一個狀況我想這個不是單一事件這是很明顯一個數位徵收跟一個認知作戰的一個具體證據 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10092.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10115.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
主委我們目前有掌握相關的一個狀況嗎有 民營相關部會大概都有協力那這一塊因為主要涉及到國安體系的單位那也會也跟兩岸關係有關那我們都有跟這個相應的有相關主管機關都有保持一些聯繫那在通案上我們希望說這個平台那邊還有民進黨這邊必須要有這個正確的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10117.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10125.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
素養的一些賠率然後素養上必須要不斷的提升才能避免這個思想想法裡頭被影響而不自知 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10127.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10155.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
因為這些平台已經不是單純的這個下載娛樂媒體的一個平台而是一些認知作戰甚至是惡意置入的一些處理的一個機制我想這就是很嚴重一個資訊戰的屠城木馬這點我想未來還是我們也會要求行政院必須跨部會來整合針對這樣的一個敵對平台的即時通報跟徹查的一個機制應該把一些軍事校園甚至交通的一些因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10156.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10181.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
要整個來調整來做一個因應主委認同嗎認同我們都有協定相關部會來做相關法定規範的一些自修訂的時候我們都有來參與處理主委另外我還是要再建議說我們NCC應該跟教育部要建立一個血統影像的一個保護方案然後甚至這個孩童的影像不得上傳到這個敵對的一個平台這部分有沒有做這樣的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10183.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10206.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
兒少的保護在我們NC族主管的在安慰部分有持續來進行民眾端的素養的賠率或侵蝕部分我們也有在處理那如果說是在間接轉入在廣播媒體部分那這部分我們也有相關一些法定規範既有的衛工業者來做一些處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10208.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10237.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
最後我想主委這個賴總統有在國安實習冊裡面的第七項有提到防範中共利用AI跟應用程式危害治安的一個嚴重的情形那我想我們還是要積極推動數位中介服務法尤其是針對有敵意來源的平台應該要有揭露義務這個來源標示跟一些退波的一些限制那我想這個尤其是我們的孩子絕對不是中國AI的練習樣板那台灣的社群生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10237.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10264.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
也不是一個統戰的練習場這點我想我們應該要正視這個國安的一個嚴重的問題好 最後一部分訴訟法我們先前外界比較缺乏共識但是我們在119年之後我們還是持續收集相關資料那未來我們會持續往這方面來不管是國際上的趨勢走向的一些研析跟對外的一些第三方或是公民團體一些溝通我們都有持續在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10265.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10288.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
主委當然你如果又做了這些事情可能又會招致這個我們在野黨的委員會覺得你們又在做敵對的一個行為這點當然是很辛苦不過我們還是要堅持做對的事情這個該做還是要做所以109年之後比較急迫性目前都採分散私立法在兒少保護或相關的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10289.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10313.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
放諸四海皆准的一些破戒的議題其實都已經在衛福部相關的法令有性剝削條例也好大概都已經完成立法對所以有做的事情也應該要積極宣傳這樣你們才知道NCC的定位在哪裡好這部分我們會來繼續加強好謝謝謝謝委員下一位登記質詢的委員林國成委員請林國成召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10321.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10346.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
好 謝謝主席 請陳代主委那個黃祖密也上來黃祖密黃祖密好 那個主委從早上到現在 除了因為我們有解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10347.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10354.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
跟我們的審法條那當然因為解凍案跟法條是一併來做巡打 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10355.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10378.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那我在這裡所有看不管任何黨派都擔心的就是我們NCC的人事案的問題那這個人事案說實在的卓院長不管在院會不管他的執政我說實在基本上我對他人格是有所尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10379.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10401.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
可是針對NCC人事案已經跳票兩次到現在已經三次我是對他這些貴為中華民國的行政院長他是有一點打折扣所以當然為什麼我把祖密邀請上來有時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10402.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10423.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
理事幕僚長在這個部分要提供給行政院讓卓院長知道這些非常重要人事案非常重要這裡面比較質疑的就是原來在陳院長提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10425.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10451.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
這翁伯忠等三位這個公文還沒有撤我有一段時間想一想要把這些人事案來排這個排下去啊是給行政院打臉給賴政府打臉這個問題這麼簡單的是應該撤的就要撤可是據我了解這除了翁伯忠代主委之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10452.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10477.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那其他有三位委員只剩下一個沒有辭職師兩個都已經辭職了那這個事態這麼嚴重那為什麼行政院到現在為止他都不提那一天到晚就在指責在野黨不支持NCC其實我們將心比心 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10479.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10494.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
今天的問題是行政院的問題為什麼沒有人怪你因為提名權不是你但是你也是啞巴吃翻臉啊不敢講可是我今天透過執行我要呼籲行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10495.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10522.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
NCC現在準備功能雖然可以執行但是決策功能無法發揮這是非常重要的所以早上我們同仁也問你了也就是說我們該決策的這些會議無法做決策這個是我們NCC現在最頭痛的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10524.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10545.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那在這裡我特別還是要呼籲行政院人事案原來的你認為不妥或者新的委員那當然要盡快去提所以不要一天到晚就罵在野黨在杯葛NCC其實NCC這些解凍案或者這些法條 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10546.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10568.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
拜託我們都很支持是我們主動是我們主動來做所以我還是希望行政院要把這個問題當成正式的一個非常急迫刻不容緩的人事案要盡快那當然這個沒有在指責主委跟主秘的意思因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10569.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10593.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
你也是聽命以行事但是最起碼的話下情上打讓上面知道很迫切的需要所以今天你的報告有10點是沒有這個不足法定程序的這些委員會你無法去開那另外一個我是覺得啦齁這個當然戴主委你就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10594.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10622.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
表示意見了 第一個 你認為你在代理這段時間你認為 你有沒有政治性 有沒有我們都依法行政 依法行政我說實在啦 你在代理這段時間 你確確實實是有在依法做事啦但是跟過去的主委政治性太強 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10624.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10630.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
這種東西是有天然之北那我就搞不清楚啦那行政院為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10631.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10658.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
解決這個問題很簡單啊再補一個送進來立法院不會去反對這些然後主委就把它爭取這個問題就解決嘛這個問題解決我就覺得行政院難道都不曉得嗎我跟你講NCC本來就是國家國家通信的一個主要的獨立單位所以我還是要請主秘 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10659.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10687.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
還有主委要把這個問題要把它但是我還是要勉勵我們代主委行政中立非常重要該做的也要做這個我想特別要勉勵我們代主委這個部分要繼續下去不管待多久啦我是覺得那個要解決這個問題我剛才也解了你就可以爭除各可以解決補一個人我相信我們立法院不會說連一個都不會過嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10689.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10712.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
但是這些東西我還是要正式跟卓院長呼籲這個問題可以解決的不要一直啊 沾一個管啦 我說實在這樣怎麼執政另外一個我還是要呼籲啊我們拜主委啊就是就是因為NCC是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10714.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10735.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
非常重要的單位尤其媒體啊廣播啊等等這些你們那個第二張了跳過來了好這個NCC的監督媒體不要只有靠臉書來花文主委你認為不管是5月19號或5月21號你們這些在臉書花文 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10740.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10768.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
像這個三峽這個案子寫零零的這些圖片啊或等等這些東西你們有沒有考慮以後臉書一種公文書一種你們不要只有花臉書你們事後有沒有補公文書啊跟我們回報其實我們跟他的工協會跟衛星公關那些其實都一直密切聯繫這些大概事前的非正式的通知提醒大概都有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10769.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10780.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
你們現在有沒有公文書我要呼籲你臉書是一種公文書是一種不管你臉書或者媒體你怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10781.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10800.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
行政單位尤其我們獨立單位監督單位行政公文書才有憑有據這個部分我要勉勵主委不管怎麼樣來不及做最迅速是用臉書用其他的媒體的的公告但最起碼公文書都要 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10802.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10826.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
都要補來 這樣的話我們的立場 我們的行政立場才會認為較為完善的東西 也比較正式啦主委 你知道嗎我知道 但是他的自立規範其實我們都有檢視過那也有一些在那裡特殊的報導的一些自立規範我們都認為說他人平常都是必須要落實那我們看到重大事件之後 我們會再次提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10827.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10852.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
好 這個我還是希望啦 不能只靠臉書好不好所以我認為啊 我認為這個新聞的智力就像你在答覆我們這些委員在答覆的時候其實當機立斷依照你們的職權 該處分的就該處分該就證的就就證 該讓他說明的就說明不要在那邊模擬兩可 不要遇到綠色電視台你們都不敢作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10853.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10869.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
你不管什麼台只要違反你的規定只要碰觸你們的紅線該做的 要做這個才是NCC的立場對 我們目前就是 不分顏色啦都是該依法行政 該怎麼處理就怎麼處理好 這個我還是要勉勵啦 好不好 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10884.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10899.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
好 現在接下來我們邱若驊委員執行謝謝主席 主席有請陳代主委好 陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10904.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10918.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
主委好主委想先請教您幾個簡單的問題嘛您目前使用的是5G還是4G使用5G是吃不到飽的費率嗎目前是用吃到飽的費率那每個月的費率多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10919.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10935.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
這部分因為是公務手機好像是一千多塊吧一千多塊那有遇到限速的情形嗎在使用中使用的時候它的方案有好幾種我的部分好像是沒有限速的完全沒有限速那您自己在實際使用上您覺得5G跟4G它的差別大嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10936.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10951.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
在速度上在大寬頻這一塊它是比4G要好沒錯是 因為本席今天先問主委這幾個問題是要跟您討論就是我國5G的推動它實際的進展還有使用者的感受嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10952.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10977.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那5G通訊在2020年7月1號正式開通那到現在將近5年了那根據SCC2024年第4季的行動通訊市場統計全國5G的用戶數有1000多萬1016.5萬戶那主委請問您這1000多萬戶有多少是不限數真正吃到飽的使用者您知道嗎這邊我不是很清楚我要請我們副處長看看他手上有沒有資料OK 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10982.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11008.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
報告委員因為這個是依據使用者習慣那我們大概知道現在目前在大部分人還是用吃到飽部分還是選擇4G為主那5G吃到飽就是一些比較比如說商用或者是他個人所以這樣子看下來不限速真正吃到飽的使用者我們是沒有辦法去做統計嗎那這個用戶中那您知道就是有包含5G限速的方案用戶有多少嗎是不是有包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11009.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11039.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
就是統計我們這個統計整體的5G那當然就是這個包含包含限數或不限數都含在這5G裡面那至於要不要再區分那個細節的部分這我們可能在另外再跟業者在做討論好我是聶本信也看到另外一份報告我們目前台灣4G的用戶有1952.9萬戶那比5G多出了936.4萬戶那我們可以看到這落差非常大嘛那5G都已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11040.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11068.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
推動快五年了那到底說應該會逐漸取代4G那事實上我們沒有看到我們沒有看到它有明顯的成長那主委您認為造成5G用戶它的用戶數始終沒有辦法突破是因為什麼原因最主要原因是因為5G的Killer application目前還沒有還沒有很明顯的這個這個這個殺手的應用沒有出現所以4G它的供應器一般上網供應器對它而言落差沒有很大所以一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11069.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11080.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
提到是這個application那你有沒有想過是因為資費太高還是限數太多或者是用戶他實際體驗他覺得這個體驗感受不是很好還是基礎我們基礎的建設未來還有預期您是怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11082.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11106.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
支費是一個原因但是因為當初他們競標也是花了天價來競標那也會對應到他們網路建設的成本的一些反應那這邊主要還是5G因為很多都是購機專案您剛才提到就是因為您目前使用的是公務手機您不知道實際的支費是多少那目前赤道堡是1399那您知道4G的赤道堡費率大概是多少錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11108.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11133.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
早期也是差不多但是相對比較低都是1000塊以下現在5G的費率幾乎是4G的兩倍那通常就是600多塊的區間那我們可以看到5G它的評估它競標是在2020年2月21號完成那主委您知道第一階段的競標總金額是多少嗎我印象中好像競標金額好像是1000多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11136.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11148.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
差多了是1380億當時的競標金額是口誤那第二階段的競標金額您大概知道是多少錢嗎我是一階段二階段加起來好像是都是有所的天價 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11149.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11155.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
是那第二階段那當時是41.1億所以說這個總金額是1400多億那當時在109年的時候中央政府總預算NCC當時編列僅編列了440億作為市照的稅錄那實際上他收了超過三倍是1400 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11172.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11194.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
21億.91億1421.91億這代表政府從這場四兆的競標中超收了980多億那本席要提醒主委喔那在2020年的時候立法院就委員提出說要求NCC延億是否可以將這筆巨額回饋給全民包含降低費率喔那我們可以看到當時提案的委員那我們看到距今超過五年了那NCC有沒有再做後續的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11195.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11211.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
其實有後來就是有用另類轉換的方式來處理比方說請業者來加強這個偏鄉或中大建設的一些經濟台建設那這一塊後來移到數位部那邊去就是後來有分三級的前瞻建設那邊主要就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11212.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11229.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
主要是這個標準的一些回饋使用者的一些落實處理偏鄉基地台還有重要交通設施的基地台所以您是說目前都是速發部在做的嗎對 今年應該是前瞻第三極的最後一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11230.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11255.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
那當時蔡政府所通過的前瞻他的基礎建設特別預算是八千八百億嘛那這八千八百億當中有多少是用來補助電信業者建置5G基地台您知道嗎想去說不說我現在忘了大概我印象中印象中這個偏向基站是相對少一點其他應該接近可以看到總共是一百五十五億啊這些都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11256.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11283.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
納稅人的錢那有沒有那NCC後來有沒有去監督有沒有去落實就是協助電信業者加速部件5G的基地台在數位部成立以前是NCC的職權那一塊我們大概有做的第一期的部分第二期之後就數位部成立之後就移到數位部來處理了所以現在完全都不在NCC這邊嗎都是蘇巴部嗎對 數位部任訓師OK好那也那本席知道了那本席也會再持續追蹤這個議題OK好謝謝主 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11288.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11308.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
謝謝邱若驊委員的執行鄭振前 鄭振前 鄭振前委員不在楊瓊英 楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員不在羅明才 羅明才 羅明才委員不在蘇清前 蘇清前 蘇清前委員不在現在請林業勤委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11320.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11347.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
請麻煩我們的陳代理好 陳代主委主委好 午安好我知道今天事實上是審法案啦但我有一個很重要的問題想要來就教於主委所以我今天要問的是NCC的網傳辦公室具體的政策目標跟計畫成果在哪裡還安慰法人化的進度呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11349.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11374.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
好 那跟委員回答這個我們在113年4月14日網準辦公室成立那我們訂定了五個目標第一個是促進多方利害關係人共識治理模式第二個是促進平台業者之力第三個是協助政府機關來共同維護好 等一下我也會讓你有機會再細講我會這樣子問是因為今年1月底就媒體的報導說 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11376.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11391.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
前任的陳耀祥主委有提到確定要做要將iWIN法人化因為原本兒少全法第46條本來就是為了防止兒少接觸有害身心健康的網路內容的有要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11392.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11402.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
要有一個內容防護機構所以目前委託台北市電腦工會去做這個iWIN就是現在的iWIN那陳謙主委表示說現行委託的經費雖然有1520萬元但這樣的經費抓緊見軸 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11409.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11433.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
雖然iWIN目前是由台北市電腦工會來承辦效果不錯可是長期下來不利於整個的傳承所以為了形成一個網路共同治理的長期長遠的架構NCC在2023年4月成立了網際網路網傳辦公室也預計要將iWIN財團法律化所以主委我想問你說你同不同意這個政策的延續 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11435.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11459.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我們同意因為目前網路那你同意的話那這個同意的話那艾問的財團法人立法目前有沒有進度啊我們在院裡頭報給行政院知道院裡頭有一些要我們收集相關部會的回饋意見來做一些處理那目前還在跟這方面的意見的一些釐清跟協調處理當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11461.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11480.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
不過網傳辦公室從2023年成立到現在兩年多成立之後到底要做什麼呢所以前面我們大家就提到2023年4月去成立網傳辦公室根據你們NCC你們自己給我的報告網傳辦公室依據這些口號性的三大願景四大 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11480.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11508.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
理念跟五大目標在運作那想問兩年了因為你們的同仁也來我們辦公室我請他去說明結果他說你們主要內容只有網路政策研究可是列了又這麼多的項目最後跟我講說只有網路政策研究所以那我就回來先單純問網路政策研究現在有沒有什麼具體的研究成果還有有什麼重大方面的規劃跟進展要 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11508.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11531.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
有提報到行政院這個成果到底是什麼其實我們突然反映的只是一部分我們目前比較具體的有很多比方說我們跟衛福部合作自殺防制專線今年3月14日上線那今年也會再增加一個網路新聞的申訴的部分的處理那未來相關部會的其他申訴我們也會慢慢納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11532.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11558.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
那另外在國際參與部分我們也加入這個Gossip就是然後第三個部分我們也在跟韓國跟數位部一起來簽訂這個打擊數位性犯罪的共同聲明那其他部分宣導對業者端對民眾端我們都有持續在辦主委你剛剛有提到你們現在已經有跟韓國簽訂了嗎就我知道我們目前一直從警政或者衛福部那邊都還知道說韓國這一塊還沒有簽訂所以你現在確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11560.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11584.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
是共同聲明 是有 已經發生過為什麼我會問說具體的研究成果 延續上一頁你們網傳辦公室究竟跟iWIN的分工到底是什麼因為目前你們還是委託因為我在上任前就有問說你們當初成立網傳辦公室是一個搭iWIN的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11585.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11600.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
獲得40人的編制喔還說未來是要規劃要取代iWIN的功能喔就不會有各部會要出資委託iWIN的情況像iWIN事實上是有經濟部衛福部教育部你們通傳會跟內政部都委託他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11601.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11622.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
可是他編制只有13個人可是相對的這些他的有些工作內容你現在要提這個網傳辦公室甚至以後要大IWIN的概念上的話那這一工作內容是不是跟IWIN還有速發部是高度重疊可是IWIN現在用13個人來接受了五部會的一個委託他經費只有1500萬可是做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11624.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11645.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
iWIN做的是這樣包山包海跟你們比你網傳辦公室還要多很多你們又一直說跟跟我們辦公室報告說你們不能成為兒少網路管理的主管機關主則單位要分散到各部會區所以想問你們這個定位你們到底對你們的網傳辦公室定位甚至iWIN的定位到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11645.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11673.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
好 簡單跟委員回報幾點 第一點IWINT它主要的權責是兒少的保護是那個兒少法46條那我們這邊網傳辦公室的範圍是更廣是在我們組織法裡頭規定說我們要做對網際網路政策相關的網際網路傳播政策的相關的一些研修所以主委我這一篇列的六項都是你們的工作內容嗎因為上次你們工作同仁來我們辦公室講說你們只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11674.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11688.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
只在做網路研究網路政策研究那現在我再度的跟你確認這六項都是你的工作內容嗎有去促進網路平台業者自律嗎有那我覺得會後 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11689.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11715.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
拜託請你們這邊提供我資料所以我要求就是NCC在一週內提出網際辦公室編制內40人的具體工作內容跟分工是什麼還提出我們的網傳辦公室已經做了哪些計畫跟成果因為兩年了嘛還未來你們具體政策目標跟預計成效然後一個月內提出IWIN法人化的進度有沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11717.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11720.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我們會提出順利報告好 謝謝主委謝謝委員好 謝謝林業勤執行鄭天才 鄭天才 鄭天才委員 委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11735.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11750.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
林楚英 林楚英 林楚英委員不在王宏威 王宏威 王宏威 王宏威委員不在游皓 游皓 游皓委員不在蔡依儀 蔡依儀 蔡依儀委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11755.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11774.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
現在登記執行委員經已發言完畢 作以下決定報告及尋答委員完畢委員游浩 王宏威 所提書面執行列入紀錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11775.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11792.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
委員對執行中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請國家通信傳播委員會儘速以書面答覆休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11980.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11992.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
好 各位請就座好 現在處理討論事項 預算解凍案 既有兩案 請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11995.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12020.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
討論事項一審查一百一四年度中央政府總預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會預算凍結案計二案國家通訊傳播委員會函減送該會一二一新增決議十八政務人員待遇預算凍結七分之四案二新增決議二十五業務費預算凍結百分之十案宣讀完畢好現在有一個提案請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12023.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12051.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
提案有關國家通訊傳播委員會政務人員待遇預算凍結七分之四案因行政院尚未將提名委員名單重新送至立法院審查原本案是國家通訊傳播委員會人事同意案送達立法院並經立法院院會完成審查程序後及同意動之提案人委員林國成等宣讀完畢好各位委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12052.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12073.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
好沒有意見本案做下列的決議通過提案並提報宴會國家通信傳播委員會人事同意權送達立法院並經立法院會完成審查程序後及 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12074.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12102.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
即同意動之即同意動之那對第一案有沒有意見好沒有意見我們先讀第二案第二案宣讀過第二案宣讀過好那第二案有沒有意見好沒有意見的話本案作以下結議同意動之提報宴會好以上這兩案有沒有意見好沒有意見我們就這兩案 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12104.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12111.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
好現在進行電信管理法修正草案的逐條審查現在請宣讀條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12117.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12146.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
定性管理法修正草案共五案條文對照表台灣民眾黨團體案第五條第一項序文將中斷前有下列行為之一者等文字予以刪除第一款字第四款並予以刪除然後徵定第二項文件內容違反前線規定為向主管機關辦理定性事業之登記者由中央主管機關處新台幣一百萬元以上一千萬元以下罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12147.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12164.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
並通知限期改正 藉其人未改正者的安次處罰並勒令中斷服務主委三修正外其餘文字同性情條文委員黃健豪等提案第五條第一項的序文墨據徵定未辦理電信事業登記者視為電信 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12167.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12176.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
視為電信事業等文字並徵訂第五款至第七款文字內容為5經營虛擬行動網路服務6轉售使用智慧虛擬碼及物聯網 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12183.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12210.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
號碼以外之用戶號碼其使用他電信事業提供之無線電頻率政令第二項原依電信法許可之第二類電信事業或利用行動寬頻專用電信網路連接公眾電信網路者主管機關得指定其為電信事業之登記並准用前項之規定處以三修正外其文字同性情條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12211.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12235.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
委員中加兵等提案第五條增訂第五項字第七項以及增訂第二項及第三項文字內容為五經營虛擬行動網路服務六轉售使用智慧虛擬碼及物聯網號碼以外之用戶號碼及銷售境外事業所提供之語音及數據等公眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12237.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12265.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
等公眾通訊之服務利用公眾電信網路經營網際網路接取服務者或其他提供電信服務之事業主管機關得指定其為電信事業之登記並準用前項規定應辦理電信事業登記者非經登記不得提供電信服務或銷售竟為事業所提供自語言及數據等公眾通訊之服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12267.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12275.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
委員黃健豪等提案第8條第1項至第4項均會修正統新型條文增訂第5項電信事業銷售用戶號碼應核對及登錄用戶資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12283.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12307.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
台民眾黨黨團提案 政定第八條 此一 定性失業應進行確認客戶身份程序並留存其確認客戶身份程序所得資料定性失業應針對高風險用戶加強集合 抽測及強化風險管理 必要時經相關機關通知後依契約停止中斷服務 定性確認客戶身份程序所得資料應至業務關係終止時起 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12310.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12325.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
至少保存五年但法律令有較長保存期間規定者從其規定並向確認客戶身份範圍留存確認資料之範圍程序方式及家長客戶審查之範圍程序方式的辦法由中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12326.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12344.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
主管機關定職違反第一項第三項規定第三項規定及第四項所定辦法者由中央主管機關處電線事業新台幣一百萬元以上六百萬元以下罰款並通知現期改正借其人為改正者得按次處罰台灣民眾黨黨團提案第九條 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12347.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12364.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
第四項後段增訂網路流量記錄以及增訂第五項第六項文字內容為前線所稱之網路流量記錄指電信失業或設置公眾電信網路者提供電信服務後所產生之發送 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12365.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12376.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
方語接收方知網際網路位置通訊且其時間通訊付協定封包大小及數量參選與回應之網域名稱系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12380.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12404.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
及其域名稱解析器與域名式服務器協力查詢資料等未涉及通訊內容資紀錄並以公眾電信網路性能可與提供者為限傾向網路流量紀錄之保存期間方式保存資料範圍收費方式及其他相關事項的辦法由主管機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12407.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12425.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
委員中嘉賓等提案第九條第一項字第四項均為修正同線型條文 增訂第五項電信事業或銷售境外所提供之語音及數據等供公眾、通信服務之經營者、銷售用戶、號碼、銀河對及登錄用戶資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12430.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12449.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第40條第4項的第7款後段增訂網路流量記錄等文字以及第2項的第6款後段也是增訂網路流量記錄等文字除以上修正外均同新型條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12450.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12475.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
委員陳俊儀等提案第75條除第一項的序文前段罰款修正為100萬元以上1000萬元以下外其餘文字均同進行條文委員黃建豪等提案第79條第一項徵訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12480.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12498.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
第25款違反第5條第1項規定為向主管機關辦理電信室登記第26 增訂26違反第8條第5項規定為核對集登錄用戶資料其文字同新型條文 委員中介兵等提案第79條第1項也是增訂第 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12505.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12519.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
第25款違反第5條規定為向主管機關辦理電信事業登記中間第26款違反第9條第5項規定為何對及登錄用戶資料其文字同信型條文宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12523.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12548.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
現在進行協商除了各版本及修正動議國家通信傳播委員會也有送建議的條文審查時也請大家一併參考並列公報記錄那現在開始處理條文的部分第五條有修正動議現在請先讀修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12558.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12584.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
修正動議一提案人委員何新泉等第五條對照委員鍾嘉斌等提案在第一項的第七款修正為銷售境外電信事業所提供之國際漫遊貨行動通信服務整項第八款文字內容為八提供境外電信事業用戶國際漫遊服務第三項修正為應辦理電信事業登記者 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12586.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12596.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
被禁登記不得提供或銷售電信服務修正動議二委員黃敬豪等 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12598.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12615.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
提案以及修正動議四提案人委員許智傑等第五條對照現行條文徵令第二項至第四項文字內容為提供下列電信服務者應向主管機關辦理電信事業之登記一向獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12616.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12634.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
合配用戶號碼自電信事業以批發方式成豬或成狗搭配用戶號碼自電信服務並以自己名義向用戶販售服務而提供用戶接取網際網路服務請向第二款應登記為電信事業者主管機關考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12635.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12653.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
电信服务营业额用户数及其他因素得为分级管理本法中华民国某年某月某日修正之条文施行前已提供第二项各款服务则应于施行之日起一年内向主管机关办理电信事业登记宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12654.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12681.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
好現在在場黃建豪委員提案跟修正說明好謝謝主席本席提了這個修正東西第五條第一個大家原則上已經跟NCC後來有在說明跟公開過因為本來提的條文內容比較複雜但是他的阻止目的就是希望說要去阻去阻絕本來在原定法律裡面那些轉售或使用用戶號碼的這些行為他沒有明確的法源依據跟規範所以我 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12683.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12709.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
本来修正第五条的目的在这边所以后来ATC有来公众他们提出的版本那我提出修正东西目的也是一样就说针对这种批发式的就是二类电信在把门号再转售出去之后我总是要能够找到自然人好这个精神在这边所以把这个东西把它放进去那另外就是提供所谓的网际网路服务的这个业者也应该纳入管理所以整个的条文的修正的精神跟他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12710.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12733.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
文字就是往針對說不管是打電話的也好還是網際網路服務也好那只要使用到這種通訊服務的自然人我在未來在追在追蹤上在管理上都能夠找到這個最終的自然人以這個東西方向為目的來提出這個修正通營那這份條呢我想這個跟ECC也溝通過應該問題不大以上說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12734.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12754.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
好另外這個喜智傑委員也提修正了應該兩個都一樣啦來也請表示一點主要是這樣啦就是管理是必要的嘛但是不要無限上綱嘛所以拿捏到什麼程度希望說NCC把這個地方等一下也跟我們說明一下謝謝好來陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12758.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12786.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
是的跟趙偉跟各位報告這個ISP的管理我們這邊新增了都是剛剛委員提案的部分我們是同意委員的提案分級管理那一塊因為ISP的業者的規模動態範圍非常大有三大電信重等級的也有這個幾百用戶的那依據現行的電管法他必須要提出一些網路設施計劃或者營運計劃等那他們的人力上或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12788.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12795.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
比例原則上我們不需要做一個分級管理來符合民眾的需求也比較務實一點這是我們初步的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12799.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12818.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
那原則性就是因為我們原來的行政院沒有版本但是這兩個都跟你們溝通過了對不對那修正不管習志杰 昭緯 或者建豪提案的這個內容都大概一致那你原則性是同意用用這個修正動議的版本嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12819.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12845.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
對我們沒有意見沒有意見好那我們第五條的部分就是黃建豪 趙黃建豪委員等五位提出修正動議以及喜智傑委員等三人修正動議的通過好不好好接下來好現在是第八條請各位翻開第八條 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12848.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12852.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
第八條是建豪委員等19位提案來請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12876.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12889.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
好謝謝主席其實第八條是針對最後一項其實也是一樣跟第五條的精神是一樣主要針對說電信事業銷售的用戶號碼應該要核度及登錄用戶資料那因為前面那條是規範誰是電信事業嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12891.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12913.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那第八条就讲说因为过去对电信事业的这个规定的这个范围比较比较小那我现在把它扩大那是把电信事业的哪些哪些属电信事业在第五条规范清楚之后那这个电信事业在把号码卖出去之后那个过程里面应该要核对及登录用户资料那以利后续的管理跟查对以上说明谢谢好那个那个陈代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12922.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12930.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
針對這部分的修正我們是由於在打造條例頭已經有規範要做QIC的一些措施那我們是建議這邊就可以不用重複再訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12933.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12956.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
說那個要維持延維持限制 打詐條例已經有了這不用修正建議不用修正那建豪勒建豪欸那個主委你們修正這個對你們執行商會有什麼困難嗎因為打詐條例他這個未接跟我們是直接定在法律裡面我想這不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12958.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12971.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
打炸條例的罰則比較重一般應該是那邊有規範感覺上這邊就可以不用了打炸條例那裡面有把這個放進去嗎?有有有有放進去啦那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12974.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12996.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
如果說假設兩邊都有規定的話到時候突發起來然後原因哪邊的條會引起會引起會引起爭議了好因為打在條裡面法律比較重好準備我確認一下那個打在條裡面放你們講打在條裡面是放在哪一條提供提供給給那個然後他的那個是母法他是放在母法裡面嗎他是放在直接定在法條裡面還是定在執法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13003.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13028.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
15條達到條例15條達到條例本身都是法律的定性上都是法律那個可以吧好那就第8條不予修正維持現行條文好不好來接下來我們第8條之一主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13034.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13058.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
主委第八條之一的這一塊那其實因為也有相關的一些其他的規定已經有我們是建議說不用修正這個打炸條例也有沒有嘛你看一下如果沒有就用如果打炸條例裡面都已經有制定確定是有有沒有打炸條例有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13063.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13080.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
高風險就是打造條例第20條有打造條例的第20條不是變管法是打造條例第20條有規範高風險境外高風險電信事業的就HEMECA條款已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13084.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13111.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
也是定在二十條裡面嗎我沒有跟黨團溝通過有是吧好那現在就是還是不以就不以增定好不好不以增定還是為此不以增定好不好那就第八條之一就不以增定來第九條有修正動議來請先讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13114.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13129.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
修正動力一提案人委員何新泉等第九條對照委員鍾嘉斌等提案在第五項的部分修正為電信事業提供或銷售電信服務應何對及登錄用戶資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13130.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13151.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
然後增訂第六項為電信事業提供非屬境外高風險電信業者用戶國際漫遊服務不受前項限制但詐欺犯罪犯罪危害防治條例另有規定者適用之宣讀完畢好來那個新竹沒有來齁來那個主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13153.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13162.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
跟趙偉跟委員報告這情況跟剛剛情況是類似就是QIC的部分在達在條例15條以後在境外高峰源黑莓卡條款部分在20、21條都已經有規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13166.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13186.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
這個打炸條例也有就對了就不需要重複就對好那就第九條不以修正維持線條穩這樣好不好各位委員好那就第九條第九條維持沿條穩第四十條 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13194.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13196.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
第十三頁來 第十三頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13198.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13224.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
好 這個也是台灣民眾黨所提的案子來 主委請說明是 那這一塊在通貿法的修正條文已經納入了上次詹惟主持的會議頭法務部代表也有肯定這一塊那應該說是我們委員是高章原則在通貿法修正前就提出這個概念但是現在通貿法已經進行修正它也是法律未接我們建議就是不用再修正好 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13225.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13227.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那現在第40條 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13229.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13254.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
第四支條就不以修正維持現行條文這個要拜託主委這裡如果有通報法或者其他的打詐條例有要提供給原提案的單位讓他知道他提案的東西已經其他法例未接的法條已經放進去就不需要去重疊所以我建議這樣主秘你可能要做這個事 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13256.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13284.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我們照辦好不好用這樣的話就人家提案出來他已經華其他的華麗未接有的麗華也是華麗未接嘛但是其他華已經涵蓋了就不需要再去增訂不然的話他說到時候提案你也不講清楚說為什麼不採納這樣就不好好不好好沒問題好那第40條第40條就不那個嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13285.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13312.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
好第40條還是不以修正 為此原條文那接下來第75條陳俊宇等提案來 主委請說明這份就是俊宇委員他要提議說把那個發放額度拉高我們有跟他溝通過因為這邊我們這邊變管法本身也有連續法的處理那當時俊宇委員也同意說他同意可以不用修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13315.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13316.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
好 那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13318.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13341.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那就不以修正維持原條文那還是一樣就是他提案以後哪一個華已經有把它納進去不要重複去立法這個還是要說明好不好好那就75條就是不以修正維持現行條文來現在接下來第79條有修正動議請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13347.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13373.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
修正動議三提案人委員黃健豪等以及修正動議四提案人委員徐志傑等第七十九條對照新型條文在第一項的部分徵令第一款文字內容為依違反第五條第二項規定未向主管機關辦理電信事業之登記以下款次順移至第二十五款 確讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13377.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13389.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那個79條提案的建豪委員來請說明好謝謝主席基本上79條主要是調適更動之外那個是在25條75條25項的部分針對是違反所謂第5條第1項規定為向主管機關辦理電信事業登記的部分要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13396.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13416.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那但是有一個這個第26個部分是違反第8條第5項規定為何對其登錄用戶資料那如果我本來的修正老闆的修法裡面有第8條第5項規定嗎阿羅這項規定拿掉了那這個是不是就不存在還是說適用到那個打砸條例裡面就看要怎麼修對你這這這主要2526啦哎 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13420.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13425.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
現在也是提修正案人喜智傑召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13431.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13457.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
讓NCC表達一下意見來 那個請陳主委是 那跟趙偉跟委員報告因為現在前面第五條那邊已經有大家有公司的版本那現在我們是建議說這邊的罰則其實對應前面的第五條跟第八條 第九條那既然第八其他條都不修正的話我們會建議說這邊的罰則部分就回歸剛剛那個修正動議 許智傑 趙偉提的修正動議跟黃俊豪委員提的修正動議裡頭都對應的 79條那一部分就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13461.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13476.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
就是兩個修正動議的79條用他的版本就一致了用他們兩個提的 他們兩個提的都一樣嘛就是同意用他們兩個修正動議的版本是不是這樣好那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13477.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13504.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
那兩位沒有意見嘛 用你們的版本來第79條照黃建豪委員等五位修正動議以及喜智傑召委等三位修正動議版本來通過沒有意見嘛好那就79條應用那個用黃建豪喜智傑委員的修正動議版本好不好來通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13507.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13511.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
好接下來處理附帶結議部分 請先讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13516.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13544.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
附帶決議一電信管理法修正條文第五條施行後主管機關應考量業者既有之權利義務與法定負擔橫著比例原則、橫評原則參採業者意見與實際管理需要後訂定分級管理制度以落實對電信業者之管理提升打造效能並兼顧產業發展之所需提案人委員林國成等宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13546.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13565.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好 各位委員有沒有意見 來 那個陳主委遵照辦理 因為配合這五條的好 遵照辦理 那我們的互代結議就通過如有委員對於互代結議補簽列入紀錄並刊登公報好 那我們回主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13592.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13592.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
針對本日會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13614.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13632.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
協商完成做以下的宣告今日協商結論免予先讀授權議事人員整理作為結議列入紀錄針對本月會議法案部分做以下的結議一 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13634.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13644.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
病案審查完畢 拟據審查報告提報宴會討論 宴會討論前不需交由黨團協商 宴會討論時由您召集委員國層做補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13652.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13679.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
第二 請國家通信傳播委員會就審查結果通過條文如有補充立法說明請送交通委員會以便列入審查報告一併呈送立法院宴會第三 條次引述條文部分文字及法字用字 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13679.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13708.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
授權主席及議事人員整理現在休息明天上午9點繼續開會謝謝大家感謝我們陳主委所有的團隊謝謝感謝我們那個數位部各級長官以及列席所有的長官謝謝各位委員謝謝謝謝媒體朋友謝謝辛苦了我們休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13713.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13721.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
可以幫我幫忙嗎?可以啊可以啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13741.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13742.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
哎呦 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13753.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13764.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
謝謝你們辛苦了謝謝啊 兄弟 下午三點吧好 你往往挺佳的 確定 我也挺佳的今天真好玩 感染了 把一身心救了你們也太棒了 謝謝光臨就好玩謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13782.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13806.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
響鐘 |