| IVOD_ID |
167086 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167086 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-4-26,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-12T13:23:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-12T13:38:56+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:06 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ab52049cf0a1ce00100072977618d54307671192a7c66aa7971867d125216ca7778f5872ee59a395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:23:50 - 13:38:56 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、財政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「臺灣未來帳戶特別條例草案」案。） |
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好 謝謝主席我們請史部長請部長好 李委員好部長好 辛苦了今天在討論這個台灣未來帳戶特別條例那我看他的這個說明裡面說要解決少子化的問題那也要投資下一代但是實際上兩個問題都沒辦法去處理所以他是問對了問題但是拿錯了藥方 |
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那我看了一下他這個是長達18年長達18年的一個資產的累積18歲之後才可以用那所以他沒有辦法減輕家長目前的負擔那也沒有辦法去提升這個生育的一個意願第二個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
67.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
它的條例呢 它沒有排富的設計那所以呢 會使得這個高所得的家庭呢可以自己提款 或是說雇主的一個補助進一步的累積資產 然後形成了逆向的補貼的效果會讓這一個富者越富 貧者越貧所以也沒有達到說 這一個要投資下一代的一個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
68.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
93.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那當然啦我們這個衛福部目前有所謂的一個兒少教育發展專一個帳戶那這個帳戶呢用意也是良好但是效果不好效果不好從這個2017年到現在的這段時間以來我們的這個開戶率是多少百分之大概65左右然後呢我們的開戶的人數大概才36000多39000多 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
119 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
整個數量還是很少啊就是說我們希望達到這一個協助孩子脫貧那所以呢我們希望說他未來長大之後呢不要形成這個貧窮的代監的一個循環那可是呢你說這個18歲18年的時間一年最多才3萬嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
140.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
一年最多三萬 政府最多一萬五然後呢 家長最多也是一萬五一年最多三萬 18年就五十四萬五十四萬啊 18年之後你被通膨就不知道吃掉多少了所以它其實是 好像是幫你儲蓄但是它是存了一個死錢它沒有投資的一個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
167.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
就我們有些委員提到就是說有希望有說像什麼轉大人ETF那個就具有投資的概念當然有一些條款還要再去做考論就是說我們的這個兒少的這個教育發展帳戶他只是幫你存錢但是存了54萬你說要幫他脫貧其實效果也是有限那你說這個要投資下一代要投資他54萬其實老實講 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
169.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
196.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他沒有什麼投資的一個作用啦因為他就是沒有 因為他就是存 他不是投資他就是存一個死錢 那利率就是這麼低那所以到目前為止 大家也談了這麼多了那如果我們先用 現在衛福部現在正在推動這個兒少教育發展帳戶來講的話有什麼需要檢討的 可以改進的現在按照這個條例來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
215.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
跟委員幫我們現在也在檢討從三個方面去思考第一個就是說你怎麼去擴大適用的對象因為我們目前鎖定的低收入跟中低收入整個含納進來對象不過6萬人左右所以如何讓能夠照顧的人更多所以你們照顧的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
247.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
社會對象會增加到什麼樣的範圍往邊緣戶就是擴大那個這個就是在邊緣的這個弱勢家庭增加多少人人數上的話大概會可以擴大到24萬大的話總人數可以到現在是6萬嘛可以有4倍就是差不多24萬這個是人數的擴大第二個是說能不能挹注多一點對啊最多政府一年就 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
271.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
1.5萬嘛對對對能不能多一點比如說我們去提高對波的相對的比例還是怎麼樣這個是第二個考量那第三個當然就是程序上怎麼讓他簡化然後更多的輔助讓他可以延續這個這個儲蓄這樣開戶因為我們現在開戶沒有那麼高那我怎麼來協助他讓我們的行政的程序更簡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
272.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
289.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你們自己有委託這個學術單位做一個研究報告你有沒有看過那個研究報告有有有那個研究報告我看過我問一下現在是一戶只有一個小孩可以開戶嗎就是說符合資格的沒有只要符合資格有幾個每個都可以每個都可以就自己一個獨立的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
314.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
不是自動開戶不是說符合資格就自動開戶沒有你自己要去申請那這個也是研究報告裡面提到就是說這個為什麼開戶率這麼低不高六成五的原因就是說他不是這個自動幫你開戶你符合資格了我就幫你開戶然後我錢就存進去沒有我自己還要去我自己還要去申請嘛對不對那如果改成用這個自動開戶的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
317.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
344.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個申請率會再提高嗎因為你就算你範圍有擴大了比如說從6萬變成24萬那搞不好開戶率還是那麼低啊能照顧的還是有限啊這個行政程序上我們會來檢討他們到底是要簡化程序還是說要改成變成是我們自動幫他開戶這也是簡化程序的一種啊這個也可以討論現在還沒有定案就對了還沒有定案但是如果自動開戶是不是會比較好一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
345.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
366.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有利有弊啦 因為這後續他還是要去存的那就是說政府先幫你存了嘛也不是說政府幫你存了那你不存你們現在的條例是說政府幫你存你不存你也是沒辦法領出來的啊就是開戶金我們也許可以思考怎麼讓他簡化一點或者是自動的幫他開了讓他知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
368.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
394.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我覺得那個比例你們自己要去算一下啦當然你提高政府的這個補助那對於這個相對貧窮的家庭來講他也不一定有這些錢能夠相對投入啦我覺得這個當然你們要去提到這個要去思考一下那不過就是說不論是我看這個他們提出來這個條例裡面他們講到韓國的例子香港的例子其實都是排富的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
395.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
418.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他們其實都是針對弱勢需要照顧的人來提出來的那香港他的這個兒童發展基金他還特別把商界把它加進來說政府家庭把商界把它加進來就是說這個等於是除了政府家庭相對提撥之外他們民間可能都很有愛心台灣也是一樣那他們把這個商界的錢也把它加進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
419.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
445.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以他們這個餅就會做大了那未來有沒有機會朝向這個方式來做處理那鼓勵的這些企業當然我們就稅這方面我們給予看怎麼樣去做解免或是怎麼樣的如果是只針對這一群比較弱勢者然後讓這個民間也可以去藝術它然後得到一些賦稅的優勉我們現在有這樣子鼓勵民間投入嗎因為我看就是只有政府跟家庭沒有把民間的力量拉進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
447.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
463.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
沒有跟這個帳戶結合啦確實是這樣我認為是可以結合啦因為其實民間都有這個愛心你看每次遇到什麼樣社會上的一些這個臨時有什麼樣的一些變化天災地變等等台灣人都很有愛心要捐錢你如果今天跟這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
464.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
480.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
企業獎就是說這個你我們現在有一些這些孩子要照顧那是不是你企業可以也一樣我們也相對提撥一些錢進來那我們在賦稅上面可以做一些減免把這個base把它做大把它這個餅做大我覺得你們也就討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
481.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
510.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那再來我們研究好之後再來提出那個修法這個就必須要涉及到修法就是說我現在先用你們這一個發展條例來做這一個以這個來做一個討論的基礎還有就是說講到投資其實你們的這個條例裡面其實都沒有投資的這個概念完全沒有就是說像這個香港或是韓國他們其實都還有理財不管是理財還是理債就是說你讓小孩子從小 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
511.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
530.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
就是有這個概念就是說我怎麼樣把我這個錢未來有這個機會讓它能夠增加這個教導小孩子理財或是理債的概念其實要從小就要開始啦不是當然你說玩不玩股票那是另外一回事但是你要知道說這個股票或是說基金或是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
530.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
559.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是他們未來是可以投資的一個標的你要先去理解再決定你要不要嘛但是我們的這個條例裡面其實沒有因為我們是儲蓄我們不是投資因為我看到我們這個條例裡面其實就是沒有因為你五四萬也不可以做什麼投資啊我覺得這方面要做處理好不好好 那這個我再提到就是說現在我們已經正式邁入了這一個高齡社會嘛對不對 超高齡社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
561.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
570.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個數據去年底就出來我們在2025年正式成為超高齡社會但同時呢這個台灣的人口年時降 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
571.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
595.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
連時降台灣的這個總人口數也連續兩年負成長所以現在大家講說生不如死那這個也 我知道政府也花了很多的錢想要提升我們的這個出生率然後呢我們對這個進入超高齡社會我看我們政府長照3.0什麼也有在做但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
596.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
600.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
出生率就這麼低我們如果看結果來講的話出生率就是這麼低 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
602.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那請教一下部長我看這個馬斯克他不是只有關心台灣他也有關心韓國他講說我們台灣人口數持續加速崩跌然後他講到韓國他就說未來成人的尿布的數量如果超過嬰兒尿布的數量表示這個國家就是走錯路了我也很擔心說我們台灣是未來成人尿布的數量會超過嬰兒尿布的數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
630.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
650.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
如果我們現在已經有這個呈現生不如屬的一個現象了那請教一下部長你可以預測一下或是說你有什麼樣的一個信心基礎之下我們也花了這麼多經費來從我們小孩子從出生到他長大這段期間我們的出生率何時可以一直跌回升呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
651.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
672.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
跟委員說明確實我們現在這個挑戰很嚴峻雖然我們過去8年間投入這麼多對一個孩子我們平均算起來一個0到6歲的孩子投入大概120到180萬也不算少如果換回去的話一年也是在20萬左右再挹注這個家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
673.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
694.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那但是仍然是不見起色那我們再回頭再分析這個數字就發現那問題出在25歲到44歲的這一段女性她的這個未婚率不斷的在上升如果有走路有結婚過的那麼她的生育率的還是維持在83到90%所以是不婚 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
695.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
717.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
是不婚現在是在不婚的問題因為不婚率呢從1990年的21%到去年來到新高點52%所以等於然後不婚的當然這一群他的生育率就很低只是低於1%所以我們現在整個生育率下降最大的問題是在這個走入婚姻不婚這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
719.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
734.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那所以我們除了要催生之外我們連這個結婚這部分我們也要去加強那我們有什麼樣的計畫嗎因為現在問題已經不是到不生了現在是到不婚了難怪人家說不婚不生快樂一生 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
736.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
751.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那怎麼辦所以這個問題真的是很大我們現在對於這個部分這個還沒有提出對策就對了還要再努力所以我們剛才所講的都是講說我出生之後我們在孩子在肚子裡面的時候我們給你的照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
752.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
772.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
到長大成年 有沒有 至少到這一個六歲這個階段 那我們現在是連前面那個階段不婚都有問題了 對 沒有錯所以在我們的今年開始2.0另外一個就是要去營造一個友善的職場企業這邊也要去鼓勵等等這些都要去努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
773.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
794.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
不然大家都忙到都根本沒有時間交朋友也沒有辦法談論到這些問題好 那我最後再問一個問題好了我們這個 欸我們複稅署宋署長在嘛 來來來不過我這個要問一下我們部長我們現在關於這一個學齡前的兒童我們有一筆特別扣除額不過這個就是只有到6歲之前嘛 對不對 宋署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
796.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
804.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
對不對對 幼兒學前特別扣除我們現在有把它增加啦我們本來是這個15萬我們現在就是說第一個小孩多少 兩個小孩多少 三個小孩最多是到60萬嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
806.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
824.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
本來一個小孩12萬現在提高到15萬第二個小孩以後可以到22.5萬這是六歲之前嘛等於扣七次一個小孩可以扣七次零歲零歲開始嘛對不對那現在這個我要問一下我們石部長好了因為我們這個特別扣除只到這個學齡前 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
826.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
845.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
六歲之前那如果我們有這個機會把這個讓父母他這個養育小孩的這個壓力再降低再減輕我們再用特別扣除這部分給予他們一些減輕的壓力如果能夠到18歲之前我看我看我宋署長嘴巴馬上張大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
846.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
861.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
但是部長你覺得這個對於減輕壓力應該也會有幫忙因為在這個這個小學的階段我們當然在六歲以前的話我們是給一些托育津貼或者是托育補助嘛然後到 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
862.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
888.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
六歲開始入學之後那麼國民教育我們的費用還算低可是往後又可能這個失效所以這個怎麼延伸到支持到18歲這個是可以研究的方式可以 你也支持也贊同嘛因為我不用問那個受署長他已經反對的但是我們0到6歲每個月平均是花費是1.1萬6到12歲平均是到1.3萬以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
889.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
908.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
是越來越增加這個我們到財政再說我現在先問石部長就是說所以你也支持如果再提高把這個特別扣除了延伸到18歲以上照顧到18歲的這個支持這樣這個我們算是有共識啦好 謝謝好 謝謝主席好 謝謝部長好 謝謝李坤城委員發言 |