| IVOD_ID |
16706 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16706 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-26T08:30:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-26T12:15:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:44:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcd64e5377f4e25464445fc32f41448fc0a12e9ca99aa835c0b145d90652166d605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部次長、內政部次長、教育部、衛生福利部、勞動部、內政部警政署就「跟蹤騷擾防制法施行三週年後，其制度成效、實務偵查、審判困境與未來修法展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於司法院預算凍結項目共10案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:16 - 12:15:00 |
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938.104 |
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944.928 |
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到底對什麼啦你在...你在...你在耍我是不是 |
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1549.002 |
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1549.596 |
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by bwd6 |
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1786.693 |
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1797.227 |
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報告委員會初期委員8人已讀法定人數請主席宣布開會我們現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議的意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1798.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1821.082 |
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立法院第十一屆第三會期司法及法制委員會第十七次式全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百日四年五月十九日星期一上午九十二分至十二時四十九分五月二十一日星期三上午九十二分至九時三十四分下午二十三十三分至五十一分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員黃國昌委員等十三人 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1821.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1833.614 |
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列席委員張祺凱委員等13人列席官員5月19日司法院副秘書長王梅英等人5月21日總統府副秘書長何志偉等人主席吳釗祺委員鐘獻5月19日報告事項依宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1837.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1851.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
二、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、內政部警政署署長、中央刑局委員會、數位發展部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1853.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1875.778 |
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率所屬相關單位列席就民眾反映受到罷免聯署簡訊顯非商業廣告目的利用質疑個資洩漏而侵害人民權益進行專題報告並被質詢本日會議有委員黃國昌等13人提出質詢委員林倩琦提出書面質詢決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1876.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1895.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
請相關機關經輸送交個別委員基本會5月21日報告事項國家安全會議函為114年度中央政府總預算決議檢送稅出第一款第二項決議依徵務人員待遇預算凍結15萬元書面報告請查照案決定準與被查提報院會討論事項第一案至第五案為總統府函為114年度中央政府總預算決議 |
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1898.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1924.646 |
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檢送預算凍結專案報告及報告請查抄案等五案第六案至第八案為國家安全會議函為一百一十年度中央政府總預算決議檢送預算凍結專案報告及書面報告請查抄案等三案本日會議有委員吳宗憲等九人提出質詢委員審發會提出書面質詢決議一 報告及詢答完畢二 第一案至第五案均與眾動之提報願會三 第六案至第八案 |
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1925.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1938.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
均令定期繼續處理四 委員執行時要求提供相關資料或以順便答覆者請相關機關競輸送交個別委員基本會宣讀完畢請問加成委員上次會議的意思都有錯誤跟遺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1941.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1952.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
沒有錯誤跟疑慮的話我們醫事錄就確定我們接著介紹到場的委員跟應邀列席的關於我們在場有王逸川委員還有黃國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1955.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1975.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
接著我來介紹我們今天列席的官員 我就沒有全部介紹了我們司法院就講代表 我們副秘書長 王美英副秘書長還有我們法務部政務次長 黃士傑次長內政部政務次長 馬世元次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1979.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1996.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那我們其餘沒有介紹的列席代表就請參閱名單我們不再逐一來做介紹並列入公報記錄那本次會議我們就分別排定上午來進行專報跟處理司法院主管之預算的一個解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1997.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2000.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
下午我們繼續來處理國家安全會議的預算解凍案那我們現在先來進行上午的議程我們邀請司法院副秘書長法務部次長還有內政部次長率所屬相關單位來列席就 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2014.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2017.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
跟蹤騷擾防治法實行三週年以後這個制度的一個成效實務偵查審判困境跟未來修法的一個展望來進行報告並被質詢還有處理司法院主管的預算的一個解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2032.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2049.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
會議程序我們本會網曆我們先請機關代表來針對專題的內容跟預算解凍來一併報告那尋答的時候我們才綜合尋答那尋答完畢以後我們再按照議程報告事項跟討論事項依序來進行處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2054.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2067.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那我們現在來進行機關報告這個發言時間也不用太多啦因為今天要處理的事情也很多啦不要超過三分鐘啦那我們現在來請司法院我們副秘書長王梅英副秘書長來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2075.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2089.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 那個主席各位委員各位先敬禮大家早安那今天逢要列席貴委員會呢就今天的那個專題做那個報告代表本院做報告那以下那個說明敬請那個指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2091.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2103.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
跟騷法從111年6月1號施行到114年3月為止各地方法院受理的申請案件有471件 終結458件其中核發了318件 約有7成平均一件的受理天數是34.72天 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2116.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2134.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
根稍法第12條的第一項,保護令有12款,其中核發最多的禁止監視等行為有328件另外禁止以盯梢等方式接近特定人住所等場所的有301件 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2137.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2149.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那實施迄今法院面臨的那個困境呢法院雖然可以依根梢法第十二條第一項第三款核發命相對人完成治療性的處遇計畫那這個治療性的那個處遇計畫呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2152.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2180.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他項目有包括精神治療戒癮治療其他治療三種但是內容並不具體那在不清楚相對人的病情跟目前可以提供儲育內容的情況底下法院比較難去以該款來裁定並相對人完成治療性的儲育計畫也因此目前法院全部核發的就只有三件 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2181.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2208.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
接下來法院依這個規定在審理終結前它是可以命相對人接受有沒有必要施以治療性處遇計畫的鑑定可是鑑定費用金額不低而且申請人通常也不願意相對人都不願意繳納所以目前相對人去鑑定的比例並不高 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2210.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2231.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
本院持續收集在辦理耕燒事件的時候所面臨的相關困難在參與內政部所訂的諮詢小組會議的時候都會提供參考另外在後續耕燒法修法過程中本院也會適時反映實務運作所遇到的情形跟法院的意見 其實耕燒法 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2233.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2248.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
制度可以妥適的那個修法並落實立法目的以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝各位好謝謝王副秘書長我們接下來請法務部政務次長黃士傑次長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2257.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2273.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士先生今日奉邀致貴委員會就跟蹤騷擾防治法實施三週年後其制度成效實務偵查審判混進及未來修法展望代表法務部進行列席報告並被質詢 致報告如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2275.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2291.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為行政院在107年就提出了這個草案歷經三年審議之後於110年11月19日大院以《耕種騷擾防治法》三讀通過於同年12月1日經總統公佈制定全文23條並於111年6月1日施行至今即將屆滿三周年 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2296.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2322.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那更法實施後本部所屬各地方檢察署與各地的司法警察機關共同合作強力執法提升打擊性暴力犯罪之力道以來維護社會大眾的人身安全保障人民的生活安寧那麼更稍法實施後呢我們首先舉辦了相關的教育訓練提升檢察官對於更收法的這個熟悉程度所以在當年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2323.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2348.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
是111年的2月14日、16日、22日、23日就在北中南東舉辦的新法說明會那麼也在台高檢署在2月18日這個婦幼保護督導小組的會議中對與會的全國的婦幼專組的主任警察官還有司法警察為新法來檢戒那麼分別於111年的2月25日111年3月8日也在司法官學院 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2348.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2365.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
辦理課程對於學習司法官及參加在職訓練之檢察官來進行檢介又於同年的8月17日在本部舉行這個婦幼保護及性別平等研習會中來向參訓的檢察官來檢介那麼另外呢也在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2367.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2387.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
以110年的12月27日跟111年4月15日派員來列席化步會的檢討會跟意見交流座談會各地檢署亦多與各地司法檢查機關合作辦理多場次的教育訓練跟座談會以提升大家執法的意識跟共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2388.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2407.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
另外台高檢署每半年就會召開一次婦幼保護督導小組的會議藉此來督導各地檢署積極偵辦跟騷法的案件並透過此等會議作為各地檢署司法警察機關及衛生福利部及各地地方政府等機關間相互交換意見的平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2408.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2418.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那麼每年我們也是持續在辦理相關的教育訓練來提升甲官偵辦相關案件的專業的智能那麼從111年6月到114年的3月目前最新的統計的數據如書面報告所載總計有增結了3692件其中起訴了848件是佔了22.9% |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2435.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2457.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
但是因為根燒法的特性,它觸犯根燒行為的時候經常都會跟其他罪名共同共犯,差罪名的情形蠻多的所以如果我們把其他罪名共同來甄解的件數加進去的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2458.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2481.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
請參與書面資料總計的起訴率應該是31.5%所以這個跟其他相關的案件數其他新犯件的起訴率其實並沒有顯著的較低那未來在偵查事務上因為包括更少在內的性別暴力犯罪案件多具隱密性跟主觀翻譯不易證明的特性所以本部持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2483.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2504.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
辦理相關的教育訓練跟各機關的聯繫以提升甲官辦案的專業資能如前所述因為這個更少法主要是內政部的主管法規所以在執行層面本部將積極配合提供相關執行和法制意見作為未來可能的修法或是執行的參考以上報告 請請指教 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2506.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2513.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好 謝謝我們華國王 黃士傑次長接下來我們請內政部政務次長 馬思源次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2522.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2547.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
主席 我們大院各位委員先生 女士先生 還有我們媒體界的朋友 大家早安今天應邀到我們貴委員會來列席報告跟跟燒議題有關以及警政工作的關注感謝委員的重視我想首先針對這個跟燒法的調查跟即時保護機制本部的警政署在跟燒法三讀通過之後目前積極的推動負荷專責警力的增補跟員警的培訓工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2548.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2565.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
希望能夠從各方面來落實《耕燒法》的一個執行以目前來講的話,我們目前從制度、實務跟修法三個方面提出我們這次的專題報告在制度的部分,因為我們目前《耕燒法》是以防制性別暴力為立法的意旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2566.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2585.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以是以性與性別相關明定行為過程要件至於有無跟蹤騷擾行為那一並衡量被害人的主觀感受以合理被害人為檢視的標準我們在執行成效的部分一直到今年的4月30日為止我們目前總共有8488件 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2586.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2609.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
的這個案件那總共核發了5555件的告誡書那其中有522件的告誡書呢事實上是有被違反的那這裡面還有並同家暴相關的議題在裡面那在雙方當事人的關係目前還是以家庭成員關係為最多那陌生人關係次之那不過這個樣的關係本身的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2610.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2635.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
比例目前也在改變那有陌生人跟同事關係的案件的比例目前也在增加當中所以在樣態的部分警方目前在根據我們目前所蒐集到的樣態在做分析那可以看得出在樣態部分有一些變化那實務困境的部分有幾第一個就是說在治療性處遇的省錢淨淨費用支應的方式那目前是以被愛人支應為主那我們現在在跟衛福部召開 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2636.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2660.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
跨部會的會議在延伸我們暫行指引並且能夠希望改革這個部分的一個內容那第二個就是處理計畫的執行範圍那目前因為處理計畫它的效果跟其他的這些法律之間的處理計畫事實上有一些競合關係所以這部分需要進一部分的研討那修法的部分包含各機關的權責分工那機關合作以及我們修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2662.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2691.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
跟燒行為的太陽依據我們實務所收集到的案例那以及完善的書面告誡救濟制度跟延長救濟的時間跟決定時間以及我們充實跟跟燒保護令相關的款項那以及加重現行的跟燒罪的刑度那在其他的有關於被害人保護措施的部分那我們也研議增訂凶器跟燒的嫌疑人或者是沒有被羈押或羈押期滿通知以後要通知被害人的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2691.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2720.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那以及嚴議增訂廣播電視宣傳出版網路以及其他媒體不得報導記載被害人之姓名或其他組織識別被害人身份的資訊來訂定罰則那這是我們的修法那未來希望持續跨部會的合作來更周延我們的防範措施希望大院跟社會各界持續支持 謝謝好 那其餘提出書面報告的機關有沒有口頭的補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2722.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2741.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
沒 機關代表沒有的話我們就報告完畢了那相關書面的報告內容請各位委員來參閱並列入公報記錄現在我們開始來進行詢答由於詢答以後呢皆需要處理預算的一個解凍案 按照前例呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2742.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2764.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
本會委員的尋答時間6分鐘然後必要的時候可以延長2分鐘就6加2了非本會委員的尋答時間細文件就不再延長了那我們上午10點30分截止發言登記那我看因為議程我們只安排上午半天而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2764.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2772.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以請各位委員盡量來掌握時間我們現在請登記第一位的委員黃國昌委員來巡檔謝謝主席 麻煩有請司法院的副秘書長還有法務部的次長請王副秘還有黃次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2797.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2809.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
委員早安兩位好上個會期針對有關於法院在處理強制處分的事情我提議做了兩個凍結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2811.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2825.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
今天司法院所提出來的報告讓我覺得非常的困惑司法院本院所提出來的報告針對有關於科技監控的部分你們在報告裡面寫說112年10月4號跟112年10月24號召開了經濟防逃措施聯繫會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2834.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2856.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我們之所以提凍結案是希望司法院針對現在有關於科技監控所出現的重大問題到底要怎麼改善來提出你們的報告結果2025年提出來的報告講你們2023年做了什麼事情副秘書長你覺得這樣子的報告及格嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2860.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2871.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
不是啊你們送來立法院的報告你要針對問題回答解決問題你2025年送來的報告說你2023年做了什麼你會不會覺得太離譜啊這樣的報告及格嗎來請副秘書長你覺得你對這樣的報告滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2888.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2914.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
其實在今年以來那個司法院還有做那個非常多的那個措施那這個報告確實沒有很周延的呈現沒有沒有先停一下你如果說今年以來司法院做了很多措施的話那我就會期待反映在這個報告裡你覺得有反映在這個報告裡嗎這個報告送來之前你有看過嗎你真的有看過嗎可以讓刑事廳長那個回答來請刑事廳長 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2919.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2938.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
委員好 那跟委員報告一下我們是把之前我們所做過的相關的一些措施一併如列在我們的書面報告裡面那事實上在114年我們開了四次的四次的所謂的參訪活動讓北部各地 北部各地方法院你覺得這四次的參訪活動有解決問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2939.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2967.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那我們還有繼續在做那我們希望說讓法官能對科技監控的相關的措施好我接下來帶你們看啊人民關心的是什麼問題啊為什麼我當初會用這個案由來凍結預算就希望你們司法院能夠正式問題解決問題啊而不是提這種報告出來你們司法院本院的報告啊講2023年做了什麼事情我看了覺得很扯 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2969.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2992.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
結果高等法院的報告給一頁這個報告副秘書長有看過嗎你覺得滿意嗎還是你覺得反正司法院送來的報告這些立法委員也都不會看隨便寫一寫有文字在上面交差了事就可以了是這樣嗎是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2997.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3006.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這個高等法院的報告您看過嗎?有看過你滿意嗎?您覺得滿意嗎?有回答問題嗎?您覺得勒?不是啊,我們現在這樣大家在看直播好像現在在定格 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3021.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3049.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我只是請你給我一個答案你也可以代表司法院的立場說我們看過了沒有問題很滿意或者是我們看過了我們也覺得不滿意因為高院是不是請那個高院長來回覆因為高院這一部分他們那個預算是他們那個那個組織機關是那個高院我先帶下帶你們看為什麼我覺得你們的解凍報告沒有回答問題沒有解答人民心中的疑惑來 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3051.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3077.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
第一個問題從之前我追鍾文智追到徐少東大家有一個共通的問題是說這一個人這兩個人之前都逃亡過被通緝過結果呢沒有羈押就算了那個是最嚴重限制人身自由的強制處分結果連電子監控都不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3078.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3107.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我問法務部的官員法務部說這個審判中啊是法官要處理的那當然檢察官在審判程序當中有沒有依職權促請法官為助役這我會要求法務部但問題是當發生這樣子的事情了以後連續執行了兩個案子你們完全沒有辦法回答在這個報告裡面一個字都沒有提 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3108.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3133.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
大家不懂之前已經跑過了被通緝了現在抓回來抓回來接受審判在審判程序進行當中連電子監控都不用然後人都跑了會讓人民開始懷疑啊這些有權有勢的人是怎麼亂搞都沒有關係嗎?司法院覺得這件事情需要檢討嗎?來 請司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3138.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3166.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那個跟那個委員報告因為這個部分所有的那個處分因為都是屬於那個法官的個案他們的那個審酌那司法行政真的不變那個智慧那那個司法行政能夠做的就是我們一直在不斷的在各種的那個或者是透過通行或者透過那個行政那個會議就是跟那個法官就是宣達那提高他們對這個部分的敏感度我這樣說好了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3168.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3195.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
在法治國家當中我們當然尊重司法獨立但司法不是置外於社會司法的公眾監督非常的重要一而再再而三發生這樣子的案子人民覺得很困惑結果最近來又多一個新的這個議員又跑了他前面也是一樣他前面也是一樣他曾經跑過 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3197.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3222.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
結果連電子監控都不用後來出現大家的批評啊是什麼這個我之前我全部都有掉了法官在做強制處分的時候前案紀錄表應該都在卷宗內吧前案發生了什麼事情法官應該都會知道吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3223.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3248.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那為什麼是沒有看嗎還是看了覺得沒有關係之前雖然跑過這次不會跑來看一下地方人士說所有的人都知道要跑只有司法單位不知道你看連莊瑞雄都笑出來了所有的人都知道要跑了只有法官不知道我看召委應該也知道他要跑了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3250.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3279.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
沒有 你笑成這個樣子啊你也是屏東出來的啊在地是怎麼做 你莊瑞雄應該很壞啦全世界的人都知道他要跑啊 只有法官不知道這種有權有勢的人 一而再再而三發生這種事情這個是人民對於司法的信任為什麼會低落嘛這也是為什麼我會提出這個預算凍結案希望你們回去檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3281.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3309.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
在作業程序上面是不是出了什麼問題我們的法官需要什麼樣的協助為什麼他們所做的強制處分跟最後的結果會落差這麼大跟人民的認知會落差這麼大這是為什麼我們當初要提出預算凍結案的理由讓你們有機會去重新的審視 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3311.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3340.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
希望你們好好的看一看到底發生了什麼樣的狀況但從我提預算凍結案到現在一個又一個一個又一個還是全部都跑了我本來期待在今天你們的書面報告裡面我可以看到有意義的檢討但我必須要負責任的跟我們司法院的長官報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3343.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3369.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這個是虛硬故事交差了事完全沒有回應問題完全沒有回應問題在一個又一個的案子當中如果遭到 如果遭到這樣子的狀況所有的人民都會問到底發生了什麼事情當然人民沒有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3370.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3388.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
問司法院但我們有機會問司法院所以我們才會提這樣子的案子希望司法院能夠強化這件事情的作為解答人民的疑惑最後一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3399.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3421.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
最高法院有沒有通知評檢啟動防逃因為媒體上面上面是寫說評檢是看到媒體相關報導才知情我看了有一點嚇一大跳所以這個事情要先釐清這個媒體的報導司法院有沒有掌握有嘛那你們了解的狀況是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3423.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3437.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
因為最高法院通常判決的結果依照我知道他們實務上面的操作是星期五的時候會先公布主文星期五公布主文代表的就是這個案子已經做決定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3439.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3457.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
最高法院有通知評檢啟動防逃什麼時候通知的有掌握嗎跟委員報告這一件是在5月14號的時候評決的那當時確實沒有通知那個防逃那這一件就是就是依這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3459.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3487.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
相關內規的那個防逃那個辦法這一件他因為犯罪所得是一千多萬那判刑四年多他是不屬於那個重大矚目案件但是我們也必須說那個被告他的身份是現役員那是符合那個防逃的規定那這一件就是據那個最高他們的那個報告他們說因為這一件在那個判決的那個犯罪事實中呢他沒有那個很明顯的呈現就是被告他的那個身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3488.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3517.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那所以說這個部分他們對不起我聽不懂耶最高法院處理上訴最高法院的法官卷不是都要看過嗎我有理解錯誤嗎沒有錯那整個卷看完了不知道被告的身份那我只有一個結論啊就根本沒有看卷啊我無法理解啊整個卷看完了不知道被告的身份那他看什麼卷 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3520.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3539.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
她不知道她現議員的身份看完了整個券不知道被告是現議員的身份這個部分就是說那個最高法院他們掌握這個多少這個部分我沒辦法帶他們回答那但是就是說最高法院不是啊 我無法理解啦所有的文書 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3541.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3569.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
從起訴一審二審中間所有強制處分的裁定應該都在最高法院的卷裡吧那個報告委員這一件因為從那個偵查開始就沒有那個申請羈押就是那個都沒有那個羈押也沒有那個羈押的替代處分連限制出境出海都沒有就他們給我的那個資料是沒有的你確定嗎有啊有限制是這一件嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3571.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3600.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
他有限制出境出海啊不是啊因為我聽副秘書長這樣講我真的會有一點害怕最高法院的法官看完全不知道他是縣議員那個委員我剛剛沒有這樣子的意思我只是說他們那個的他們那個的報告回覆那個意見是說沒有在那個犯罪事實中很明顯的呈現他的那個身份但是就是這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3602.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3626.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
最高法院他的認知是怎麼樣我想這個要由他們這個我沒有辦法代替他們回答但是我可以跟那個委員報告就是說最高審理的那個就是的那個依訴訟法那個結構呢他所審理的是上訴意旨所旨在的那個違法因此他會去卷裡頭所那個審查那個標的就只有在審查那個標的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3626.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3652.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
他們只在違法這個部分才會詳細的進入到那個卷裡頭去審閱這些卷中的我希望副秘書長或許回去再想一想今天你在這邊說的應循的內容第二個部分司法院或許管不到最高法院但可以善意的提醒最高法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3653.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3680.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這是怎麼回事有必要發一個新聞稿讓社會大眾可以了解這樣子的人不屬於防逃要趕快通知的對象做了決定屏東地檢署說他不知道那顯然屏東地檢署沒有說謊因為最高法院真的沒有通知他從這個案子以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3681.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3707.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
防逃的機制你們前面開了很多會嘛顯然前面開的所有的會沒有把我們現在的這個洞補起來屏東地檢署不知道他要怎麼啟動最高法院的法官說他不知道他是屏東縣議員然後也不知道他曾經逃亡過嗎這些客觀的事實不是一定會在券裡面嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3709.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3723.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
現在事情發生了就說一句不知道您覺得社會大眾有辦法理解嗎那個最高他們近日也有那個開啟這些那個就是再繼續開會再繼續開會沒有關係啊我們靜待這一次新的開會最後的會議結論是什麼會執行到什麼程度是 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3739.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3745.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
好 謝謝黃國昌委員接下來請王逸川委員詢答好 謝謝趙偉 我們請教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3769.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3785.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這個法務部跟內政部的兩位次長你問教育部你就厲害了,教育部我也沒有說有人來,你也叫一下副司長,許家倩副司長還有內政部馬次長,還有我們法務部黃次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3792.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3805.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
好我先請教這個教育部的代表這跟燒法通過以後啊對於這個男女同學之間的追求教育部怎麼宣導這個跟燒法 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3808.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3827.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
跟委員報告有關跟騷法的部分其實在我們校園平等教育法裡面的相關的性別事件我們的宣導防制一直都有在做那這三年有學生因為跟騷法被告發舉報或者是去告的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3829.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3843.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
跟委員報告這三年其實都有相關的事件那跟稍法我們這三年的統計比如說像去年大概有八十幾件的通報那結果呢結果屬實的部分其實跟委員報告屬實的部分其實在去年的統計大概只有十二件 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3853.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3881.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
只有十二件?對好我先問教育部的原因是這個跟騷法跟這個追求有一條線存在啊譬如說這個A同學喜歡B同學他下課就跑去他教室外面看他放學他就說他要保護他回家他也沒有對他做什麼他什麼都沒做他就是默默的跟著他來 法務部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3884.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3905.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
按照你的理解這算跟燒嗎這個還是要看構成要件那有可能構成但是還是要由這個教育單位先行輔導然後有假設被害人或是他的家長有這個提出這個告訴的話我們就會接手來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3906.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3932.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
好就是完全是看所謂的這個所謂的被害人他覺得因為這個照角色照剛才委員所描述的情形的話應該是告訴乃論之罪OK好那接下來我請這個內政部這個次長在這一個警方如果受理報案我舉一個例子就是在路上走 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3934.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3957.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那每次要回家呢 後面就跟著一個人那也不知道那個人是誰也不知道那個人是誰那也沒有制止他但是就心生恐懼心生恐懼 他也沒有對你怎樣但是他就一直跟著你喔那你也沒有回去找他喔你就趕快跑回家然後今天這樣 明天也這樣這可不可以報案 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3959.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3986.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
報委員 這個應該要報案因為違反意願 心生恐懼 影響生活就應該報案好 那報案的時候這個可以報什麼報委員 這個根據我們目前的法規有色違法跟跟騷法都可以報案好 那跟騷法要不要回頭跟他講你不要再跟不需要 我們只要有重複 反覆實施的話我們就可以來報案那如果沒有重複呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3987.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4002.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
沒有重複如果是一次性的話,這個可能會比較適合社委法的狀態比較符合社委法?比較符合,因為我們只要看個案好,那報案你們就會查嗎?報案如果我們認定說有跟沙法的構成要見的話,我們就會核發告結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4003.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4030.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那就你們認定我們會認定 行政上認定就是說我們偵查的過程如果認為他有跟騷行為的話那同性之間算不算都算同性之間也算也算 跟性別有關都算不是 就是就是我覺得他在跟我那我覺得他對我有跟騷我就去報案了喔可以的我就去報案了喔我個人覺得喔可是對方呢 沒有 他就他對我也沒有什麼在性上面的這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4032.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4055.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這個事情,那這可以符合跟騷法嗎?各位網友,這個還是要約詢我們的相關當事人來了解案情因為如果說他所比如說跟蹤的目的或者是說他有拍攝的行為那拍攝行為如果涉及到對方的隱私或是一些特定部位的話這個我們是可以根據跟騷法來做認定那跟騷法要反覆對不對?如果沒有反覆就沒辦法? |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4056.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4082.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
一次性的話基本上我們會比較傾向於那這一個恐嚇為安要不要反覆恐嚇為安的話它是另外一個法律恐嚇的話是刑法對它不是跟騷法我知道那要不要反覆來那個恐嚇部副市長那個跟騷行為除了反覆之外還有持續也就是說雖然說一次性但是如果持續很久也算跟騷 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4085.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4109.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
會講清楚一點就是它構成要件裡面除了反覆或持續以性或跟性有關的這個目的來做這個跟蹤或是騷擾行為的話就可能會構成這個跟騷好 我為什麼要這樣問就是當有人被跟蹤 被偷拍他的第一時間他當然就是跑嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4111.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4123.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
就是說趕快離開現場那他很緊張啊他就跑去派出所報案啊派出所如果回答他說請問你要告什麼這樣處理這樣是對的嗎應該要跟這個我想應該請警政署這邊來回答派出所的比較正確這樣是對的嗎當事人喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4134.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4162.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
任何案子基本上我們都要先受理再來瞭解他整個案情的狀況他是誰該當何人那警察可不可以跟當事人分析說你這齁不確定對方是什麼人所以你這根梢法應該告不刑你這恐嚇維安也告不刑你再想想看要告什麼這樣的對話是對的嗎這樣是不對的這樣是不可以這樣是不對的齁因為這個當事人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4165.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4180.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個 反應 他去派出所 案情就起碼 他說有人跟他對嘛後來警方跟他說 你要回頭制止他你沒有制止他 你怎麼知道他在對你做這些事情這不對喔這樣是不對的最後我再請教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4191.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4203.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我很擔心我們現在的學校尤其是高中這種跟騷的狀況同學之間被騷擾的狀況如果一開始都無所謂後來家長倆說這個小朋友回去會講我們學校我叫他不要跟我他就一直跟我但是他也都沒講話然後呢這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4220.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4235.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
這個所謂的被害人的家屬就跑去警察局告了他就第一時間跑去警察局然後就報案了可是呢這個到底有沒有跨過那條線啊我覺得教育部應該因為我跟你講學校老師可能也不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4236.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4257.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
對吧 副市長你覺不覺得學校老師應該不同我們在學校老師的部分我們應該要加強相關的性別平等的職能的一個教育對 所以我建議這個教育部跟看法務部還是內政部針對學校的老師啊尤其學校的輔導的老師這方面的這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4258.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4285.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這個認知啊要加強然後順便跟學生做教育否則很多學生搞不清楚他也不知道他跨過了那一條線他就覺得他就是喜歡他他就是迷戀他但是他也什麼事他也沒做什麼動作他就想說我要保護他回家他回完家他自己也回家是 謝謝委員指導學生部分我們應該也要加強有關情感教育的一個方面的一個宣導 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4291.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4299.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
謝謝王一川委員來 換你代理主席一下接下來請吳宗憲委員詢問來 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4318.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4337.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
好 謝謝主席 那我們麻煩法務部次長還有憲法法庭書記廳廳長還有複密好 請次長 廳長跟司法院的複密署長好 請好 謝謝主席三位早安 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4339.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4361.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我先請教一下副秘還有廳長我想請教一下這個憲法憲法第二條就是經過立法程序公佈的就是法定預算那我們看到4至520號他有提到一個所謂的法定預算就是有一定的效力然後行政機關必須依法執行預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4363.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4377.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那並沒有拒絕執行的這個法律依據嘛否則就不符合依法行政的這個條件那我也再補充一下我們這一次呢一般性補助款2501億這個中央已經公佈了而且立法院三讀通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4378.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4402.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
也都沒有一毛錢被刪我在強調也都沒有一毛錢被刪也就是這地方的一般性補助款這個是法定預算而且一毛沒有刪那我想請教一下司法院這邊司法院認不認同行政機關他要受到法定預算的基數應該要依法執行預算預算案請問一下司法院我剛提到了四制以及預算法第二條 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4407.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4435.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這個依那個這個釋字那個解釋意思是這樣子的對那釋字解釋這樣他們的協同意見書也非常清楚所以釋字520號然後再去看裡面的大法官的協同意見書說明的非常的清楚這個行政機關他必須要依法執行不能他並沒有說可以拒絕執行的這個法律上的依據我剛所說的就是我國法治好那我再請教一下如果說中央不跟地方溝通啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4437.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4459.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
然後他就動不動就不給你一般性的補助款那這個時候地方可不可以申請暫時性的權力保護因為這是屬於一個一般性的給付之數嘛那我想請教一下當這個狀況發生的時候我們可不可以提起這個暫時性的權力保護請求中央依法撥給這個地方補助款是不是可以就是我們就不方便回答了 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4464.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4488.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
委員我可以回答嗎請說我想如果中央跟地方機關有爭議的話這個部分在憲法訴訟法它是有解決的機制這個我想說我們這個標的上面應該都沒有問題但是剛剛提到的如果涉及到暫時處分的話那依照憲法第43條那前提是要先有申請和細數是 好 謝謝那我再請教司法院一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4489.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4504.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
一個經過立法院三讀通過而且總統公佈的案子不管是什麼案那在提釋憲被大法官宣告違憲之前請問一下法律效力會不會受到影響請教司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4506.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4525.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我想在司法院沒有做出判決或者是為暫時處分之前他就是依法產生他應有的效力所以這段時間我跟非常多的行政機關的人在面對的時候他常常跟我嗆一句說這個將來可能會被宣告違憲或這個會那個行政院會提起那個憲法判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4527.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4550.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
我們都應該知道一件事情請公務員能夠理解一件事情一個法律如果經過三讀通過而且總統公佈這個法律就是生效了除非他日遭到大法官以宣告違憲在被宣告違憲之前他都是一個生效的法律我們都必須依法行政必須遵守請問一下司法院是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4552.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4576.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
是好謝謝那我們再過頭來我想請教一下法務部的次長次長請教次長我國刑法有一個129條一流客扣罪堂屋罪條例第6條第一項第一款也有所以呢公務員對於明知道依法依職務上面應該發給的款項而一流不發或者是客扣這個會處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4580.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4599.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
請教次長我國有沒有這樣的法律規定我先不含涉到目前國家發生的事實我只請教次長有無這個法律規定就如同委員的資料上面所記載的就是有這些法律規定所以我下一邊再跟國人以及各公務員報告如果你有依法應該發給的款項而不發給的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4603.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4623.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
你如果明知這個狀況這個在我國會有刑法以及貪污自罪條例的規範所以我們公務員依法應該發給的款項就要依法去處理不能夠不處理好那我在這邊再跟各位報告一下齁就是其實啊主計長啊其實主計長人很好啦非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4624.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4637.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
NICE溫和的一個人他所組長的主計總署他明明知道今年的中央總預算拿到是史上最高的預算最高那本來編列的支出是高達3.13兆這個錢比 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4640.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4662.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
蔡英文執政時代編出來的預算是高了16%所以呢我們政府這次拿到的錢比蔡英文執政的時候多了一千多億比馬英九執政的時候多了一兆並不是沒有錢啦那我必須這個東西我要講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4664.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4675.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我再講一個就是我們看一下一個圓餅圖來這個是民進黨所自己這是民進黨做出來的圓餅圖所以他說什麼二三預算我請各位看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4677.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4701.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
在灰色的部分都是當時民進黨跟國人說這個是不能刪 不能動 不會改變的預算那在這次的地方計畫型補助以及中央的一般性補助款 中央的法令支出這都是民進黨自己告訴國人不能動的喔民進黨告訴國人說被刪除的範圍是粉紅色的那個部分所以他說藍白提案刪除 也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4702.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4728.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
說民進黨都告訴你們了一般性補助款是不能夠變動的他是不能夠變動的這個圖到網路上現在都還找得到其實一般性補助款到現在一毛都沒有刪啊刪讀通過一毛都沒有刪這邊跟各位先補充有這個問題啦好所以呢我想喔被刪除的11個項目就剛剛粉紅色那個被刪除11個項目是 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4730.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4753.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
立法委員覺得就是中央政府他的國外旅費電費媒體宣傳費這個等等非必要非優先的費用有一些腐爛或消費性的支出他其實刪的是這個並不是刪到地方的一般性補助款一般性補助款一毛都沒有刪這個我先跟各位報告我覺得最近國家已經一團亂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4755.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4775.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
行政機關帶頭說謊說得越來越誇張所以我在這邊必須要依法依據事實的跟各位報告狀況是怎麼樣我不是找中央政府麻煩我說的這些東西全部都是依據法律上面規定所講的所以我覺得主計總署我剛剛所說的這些東西還是要依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4776.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4803.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
依法來執行 依法來行政不能說自己想怎麼樣就怎麼樣更何況我們的主席長其實在台南當過主席處的在主席處服務過嘛他應該知道中央跟地方之間在預算上面的關係以及我國廢審之後預算上面的配比的問題他應該要很清楚這些事情啊就是因為廢審之後配比發生的狀況所以民進黨在 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4805.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4821.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
在野的時候他提出要修改才化法就是這些問題嘛當年我也陪著民進黨很多人上過街頭啊所以我覺得大家要很清楚這整個脈絡是怎麼樣而不是把法定的東西亂開始去調整所以在過往的總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4822.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4848.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
幾任總統沒有人敢去動這一塊但我不知道為什麼今年的政府敢去動了這一塊那再來我再跟各位報告一件事情一般性的補助款其實這個是救命錢這個是地方的教育以及那些低收入這些弱勢團體的一些補助的款項主席不好意思再給我一點點時間這一般補助的款項所以這個並不是一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4849.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4871.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
並不是說富人需要用的錢這個是社會上很多人需要用到像身心障礙、老人津貼、營養午餐、育兒等等的錢所以你去砍這個東西這個不好吧好那我再舉就是國內的兩個縣市負債比最高的苗栗跟宜蘭它負債很高像宜蘭一個人要負擔3.85億的公共債務那我們再回過頭去想一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4878.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4888.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
因為行政院的發言人是說地方可以去舉債啊可是我們身為一個我們現在當個立委我們捨得我們縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4890.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4907.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
他們讓子孫負債越來越高嗎比如說苗栗已經6.5萬了我希望他越來越高苗栗的子子孫孫宜蘭的子子孫孫他們負債的比例越來越高嗎我覺得我們都捨不得吧所以中央一句話說你可以去借錢你可以負債我覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4908.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4930.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
話不是這樣講啦 更何況借錢不是不用還 還要負擔利息喔這個不是很多縣市負擔的了那像也有負債還OK的 像屏東他是沒有負債嘛那但是呢 大家都統一山25到27%我覺得這個不對啦 不能搞這種齊頭式的玩法齁這個其實對地方上是很不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4932.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4955.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以我跟各位說我自己的感覺是這樣立法院在監督中央政府今天不管誰執政誰在野反正立法院的天職就是監督中央政府當立法院覺得中央政府沒有做好他刪你的預算的時候結果你竟然是轉去刪地方的錢這好像一個感覺是什麼 就好像說 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4957.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4985.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
你去一個地方上班老闆跟你講好一個月五萬塊那依照勞基法他也必須要一個月給你五萬塊就他跟他老婆吵架他老婆把他喝酒錢砍掉他跑來跟你說我每個月給你的五萬塊我只能給你四萬變成這樣啊他被砍的是別一個項目的錢就他來告訴你你依法該給的錢他不給我覺得狀況變成這樣嘛請大家能夠理解這個是不對的啦那我要再一次重申齁這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4988.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5014.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
在野黨立委並沒有砍到一般性的補助款地方的一般性補助款這段時間我覺得我們遇到很多人你看這段時間其實一開始很多人講說藍白濫酸預算什麼租屋補貼什麼育兒津貼都被刪光了我其實走在路上遇到那個霸團拿個麥克風在那邊講都在講這一套但最近比較少人講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5015.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5036.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那我覺得這跟資訊越來越透明也有一點關係啦因為越透明大家都知道這很多都是在騙人的嘛所以我上一次在這裡也是依法告發了幾個部會首長因為他們講說什麼租屋補貼被刪光等等後來發現根本沒有刪那這個就是不對的那另外就是說你為了要大罷免你去講這個那是違反 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5038.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5044.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
選罷法104條第一項就現在罷團沒有再講了開始沒有再講這個東西了結果我們發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5045.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5073.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
哇 原來中央這些人民的救命錢沒有被刪真正刪了人民救命錢的是誰 竟然是行政院行政院不給地方一般性補助款這些錢就是用在地方給弱勢團體的小孩子給年輕人的救命錢就真正刪這個救命錢的不是中央的立法委員反而是行政院去刪地方的這些錢真正刪的是這些錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5075.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5090.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
當初一堆造謠的那些說藍白爛三預算導致地方上的年輕人的錢都沒有了弱勢團體錢都沒有就這些現在都不是真的真正白紙黑字出來的事實是什麼就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5091.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5107.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
行政院要刪掉地方的一般性補助款那一般性補助款主要就是針對這些弱勢以及社會福利教育等等的錢所以我們看到原來爛三預算的是行政院好 那我在這邊最後最後30秒我提一個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5109.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5126.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
既然這樣子的話我在這邊就一樣秉持法律人的天性依法告發一流客扣罪我不知道但是我不知道是誰決定的中央政府裡面不知道誰決定的是不是主義董事處決定的我不知道我們就告發依法 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5127.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5153.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
一流客扣罪啊那請法務部你能夠請檢察官請調查局能夠趕快下去處理既然調查局他可以因為幽靈聯署這種中選會可以依法剔除的東西他都覺得哇這個傷害國家很重破壞民主制度他都可以這樣子全國大搜索大羈押OK沒關係違法你去查但是呢今天這個更嚴重因為這個一流客扣達到636億 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5156.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5167.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
而且是全台灣受害而且受害的人是窮人是低收入戶不是富人喔因為這些錢不是富人用到的錢是這些教育低收入戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5169.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5196.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
殘障的人需要用的錢 那既然這麼嚴重那是不是我們應該要我不敢說比什麼柴油林連署更用力啦你就跟他一樣用力 或八成 五成都好啦麻煩檢察官 調查官下去查逆流客扣罪麻煩一下 我今天在這邊依法提出告發請去查明是誰在 哪一個公務員在幹這個事情是誰不給我們這些辛苦的人 年輕人一條活路 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5197.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5215.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我剛剛講的東西全部我剛剛法律一整套推理的邏輯我想次長、廳長、副秘都是法律人都非常清楚我這套邏輯是什麼清清楚楚從憲法到地方法規的論述我清清楚楚我認為這個就是違法不發給而這是屬於刑法利益的課題請問次長有要補充嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5217.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5245.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我們尊重委員的意見不過也補充說明說因為相關關於這個刪除 刪減預算相關程序以及他的實質憲法上的爭議現在已經隸屬於這個憲法法庭審理中那我們都尊重一切判斷的結果謝謝 那我也希望我也希望最終是一場誤會真的要發給因為我在這邊跟各位報告以及現場所有人報告我個性真的不是追究誰的責任我是希望說因為這636億真的是地方需要用到的錢而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5246.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5271.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
刪讀的時候在立法院一毛都沒有刪就是核實的發給各個地方各個縣市不管是哪一個政黨執政縣市因為我們這些弱勢的人民需要這些錢好 謝謝各位 謝謝主席謝謝吳宗憲委員 接下來請莊瑞雄委員謝謝主席 有請我們法務部黃次長來 黃次長一人而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5274.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5279.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
市長,一個就好,剛才我走下去吳宗憲委員給我搜一頁,搜一頁就是他講了有一點心虛其實你剛剛都沒有回應,吳宗憲委員剛剛就胡說八道,開玩笑跟你講就是說其實國民黨自己本身內部沒有對好,吳宗憲委員我趁你,因為我不喜歡 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5296.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5318.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那這個 別人不在場 批評別人 剛好你在場 我給你 不要說糾正啦 給你提醒啦2024年的12月23號啊 你們的賴斯巴委員講現在喔 中央給地方的部分啊 除了統籌稅款啊還有一般補助款跟計畫補助款 這比例佔了蠻多的中央政府根本不需要從變種一算 只需要減少補助款就可以啦換言之啦 行政院只需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5319.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5326.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
只需在補助款的部分減少三千多億一切就可以迎刃而解這個是你們賴司法委員講的啦 抱歉啦 你要照喔 我說不知道那你就知道啦 所以說這個齁你這個 我們在在一檔在砍這個總預算的時候啊他 總預算砍了然後在整個 到最後是在不知道要抬什麼的時候齁通山哥給你抬一根對不對齁抬到跟你說 欸 是要抬什麼 數十年了 你自己去抬啦 我不會啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5349.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5370.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
一般性補助裡面就是在整個總預算裡面你把總預算給砍了你什麼你其他的東西叫行政院 中央政府再自己去找錢出來這個是有點強人所難這個我做這樣的一個補充請回來 請我們司法院副秘書長來 副秘書長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5380.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5403.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我想整個耕燒法上路這三年從零到有確實踏出了關鍵一步但是我們這三週年我們在討論的也不是說只有好就好了因為耕燒其實它不只是一個個人的問題更是一個公共安全的延伸制度的一個空隙裡面我們很擔心的就是下一個悲劇的溫床 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5405.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5432.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那我們看這部條文裡面現在看大家好像是認為只是在定義條文其實真正的目的才不是我們當初是希望說這部法令是變成人民的一個安全守護的一個盾牌那我來做一些回顧啦現在我們也一起來檢視這樣制度的一個缺口我看今天的報告裡面最主要是檢視這個法制的實施還有成效還有可能有一些不足的一個地方那 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5433.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5463.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我看到就是說這三年你看這一個成果下來更是要把你設計的這三道防線裡面其實大家去看到當初那麼多人在呼籲三道防線書面告誡保護令接下來是刑事處罰那你從受理案件這8488件到你開立書面的告誡5000多件違反告誡就522件那家暴法保護令的申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5465.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5482.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
1979件跟燒法保護令的申請412件提告5000多件移送4531件那從這些來看的話請看下一頁就是說這些數字裡面你可以看得出來就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5485.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5494.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
你這個告誡跟保護令之間它有一個空窗的問題對整個被害人來講的話會形成一個保護的斷點 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5497.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5513.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我想問的就是說 這個保護空窗期食物的問題跟我們如何去應對那是不是從書面告誡到保護令合法 經過一段時間又怕又會亮成一個新案 我不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5516.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5539.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我們司法院這個地方啊對於這個書面告誡發布到保護令核發前如何再去做更有效的一個保護的一個作為我認為 副理事長你的看法是怎樣好 謝謝委員我請我們林市廳長回覆這個比較專業的這個部分好 那我請警政署警政署來嘛 也請到這位起來這個來先請 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5543.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5559.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
是主席委員那個代表司法院在這邊做一個說明沒關係你說明那個有關那個書面告誡這個部分其實當初在制度設計的時候這個內政部當時就是因為考慮到像剛才王逸川委員所提到的狀況因為有些狀況不明 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5561.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5579.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那不明的時候你立刻就讓他申請保護令這個其實對於某一些模糊地帶的不管是青少年也會有問題書面告誡當時內政部可以理解啦也不是警察不是警方不是檢察官這邊申請法院就一定照他們的申請來 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5580.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5601.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
來做一個核准這個可以理解可是問題就是說我從剛剛那個比例來看的話似乎我們司法院這個地方跟警政組這個地方你們對那個整個法律間接你們要去做一個統一再跟委員報告說明一下委員做的這一張表這個保護令刑事處罰實際上是違反保護令罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5602.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5624.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們在根梢法保護法當初就已經犯罪化了也就是一開始符合構成要件的就有可能構成刑事犯罪那刑事犯罪跟這個書面告誡它是一個行政跟刑事的雙軌進行所以不會因為你發不發書面告誡或中間有空窗就導致說刑事的報復不足這個要先跟委員說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5625.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5649.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
對 那我要請教的就是說像以現在來看的話你執行到現在 我看這個六十七件的一個職權申請裡面很多可以按照職權來做一個申請啦那可是呢 看起來駁回的部分也不小那當社會大眾會去質疑說這樣對被害人的一個保護到底是不是充足 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5650.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5679.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
甚至於說你們跟警政署這個地方是不是應該有一個做一個我們當初在修法的時候希望有一個定期的一個會商的一個機制這部分你們有做嗎?還是你們認為你們比較權威?警政署我們那個事變告誡我們在認定上是刑事訴訟法裡面的任意處分他也沒有什麼強制力 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5680.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5707.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
所以我們在受理發現這個被害者如果真的有危險的話我們可以申請預防性的指引劑啊是啦 這都不是這個問題啊你們這樣子變成說你們現在在委員會裡面的詢答跟你們這個發出來在哀哀叫的又不太一樣你們動不動就把人家推給說啊我們就有行情啊 法官不愛人尊啊你們講的你們就講到這裡去了你們現在在這裡講的又不一樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5710.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5734.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
是不是這樣說?我的意思是說在這個期間,你這樣按照職權申請的部分,駁回這麼高啦,很多也未必會按照你們的意思,法院本來就不一定是你們申請以後,法院一定要去做一個核准,你們就出了這些,你們比較挫折,你們的講法本來是如此啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5738.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5751.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
對 這個因為保護令的核准還是法院在核准所以他們認定有時候他會去比較嚴格當然我們基於保護被害人的立場我們希望是能夠盡快而且能夠比較寬鬆一點的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5754.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5779.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
當然啦 審查的標準這個部分是不是該有更一致的一個看法司法院這個地方確實是可以更精進啦因為不同的法官本來就常常會出現不同的一個看法這部分我希望司法院這個地方也可以對民眾有一個適度的一個回應啦好不好然後司法院請回那我繼續要來請教的警政署的部分就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5780.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5792.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
在科技偵查我們常常碰到一些障礙你像譬如說有一些電話 你說王一川 看他就很討厭不然你打電話給他 打電話給他 打電話給他還是我用那個假帳號 叫你王一川 一直叫叫叫叫你去找臉書 臉書設定那十四種狀況那你真的要去追蹤的話像這種狀況 譬如說我來騷擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5806.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5826.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
王一川,像這種情形,不要說社會大眾,你偵查上就有很多的一個障礙那像這一些,你們有什麼因應的策略跟技術的一個資源來提升整個執法的一個效率聽到王一川他就哭哭哭,緊緊的在看你有沒有看,就代表他這種困擾很多啦現在其實這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5828.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5844.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
網際網路的部分社群媒體這個部分在我們國內設定的時候像MetaMeta的部分它就是比較大部分現在都可以配合Line也是一樣但是如果說它是公司是設定在境外的 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5845.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5863.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
像這個WeChat或是像這個WhatsApp這些像新加坡他們在用的這些我們可能在調味上會有比較麻煩必須要聰明溝通但是目前他還是盡量會依個案會來同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5864.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5881.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
回來同意 這已經在進步了 已經越來越會配合了您這有回答 聽不回答 王一川不滿意啦好啦 時間的問題啦 請回答 這個偵查都還必須要進進主席 抱歉 再給我一點時間 因為今天是預算的一個解凍所以我必須要再請司法院副秘書長上來一下來 副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5884.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5888.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
副院長我再請問就是說我們從2024年8月15號新制的一個上路這個我們法院跟地檢委託衛護部醫審會的鑑定的機制這個全面暫停這個部分其實很多的一個塞車的狀況非常嚴重那司法院你去因應的措施跟成效來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5909.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5935.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
你們現在在去年跟今年,尤其是今年三月份,你們也召開了多次的一個諮詢的會議,你們現在推出了兩項措施,就是說鑑定人具名跟拒絕可以彌封,不提供閱覽,然後鑑定人出庭、客才遠距或者隔離、筆錄、免記載的個資,我要請教副秘書長就是說,這兩項的一個措施,是否真的可以提升鑑定的一個參與的意願跟實際的成效? |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5939.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5955.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
跟委員報告就是說有關於這個議題其實大部分塞車是在那個偵查中那所以說那個相關的那個部會現在也有達成的一個共識就是說在偵查中的時候呢就那個因為他還不需要到嚴格的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5956.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5982.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
證明的這個部分所以說就還不要需要就是要有那個鑑定人具名跟那個具節啊這是現在目前因為大部分七百多件都是在那個偵查中就是現在這樣子那個處理那到法院這一端來的時候那個件數就不會有這麼多了那法院除了採取就是以上這個措施之外呢我們也有就是在廣闢其他的就是除了醫審會之外現在目前有有很多的那個醫療機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5984.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5999.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
還有就是協會跟協會的那個單位那甚至像那個台大法醫研究所也都願意就是加入這個鑑定我剛才跟你們問喔 是兩項啦一項你們就是說鑑定費用比較多第二項就是說那出庭的部分喔 也是跟我講五百啦有的人根本就沒有那個意願上次你們是講說喔 事實上你們是表示說會提高專家的一個費用那這個部分我想 這個部分我們也已經做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6014.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6018.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
阿所以你們會具體 已經具體落實了已經有 已經有 現在多少這個我讓那個廳長來回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6022.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6048.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那有關於那個鑑定費用的部分我們把它改成雙階段的兩階段的鑑定費用知己方法就是原先的書面報告的部分那是一個鑑定費用如果有鑑定人要出席的話有出席的鑑定費用那個這部分的說明費用我們3000到10000那或者是有4000塊根據那衛福部的那個精神鑑定的部分的收費標準出席出庭說明鑑定報告費用的部分在一次是4000塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6049.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6054.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
五八變四千甚至我們用專家證人的自己標準可以三千到一萬根據那個詢問的內容時間反應程度來做一個調整我有一個比較最後一個問題就好了其他問題我不好意思沒有時間不敢站人家太久就是我們醫審會的決議跟你初見定的醫師意見不一致這個問題這個比較麻煩的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6076.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6099.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
你如果說非醫師背景的委員會做成結論這個很明顯就不太符合我們行入訴說法鑑定人專業資格的一個要求那你初見的醫師你不參與最後的決議也不具名也不拒絕然後他的意見其實常常都對於整個決議他有實質的一個影響力這個部分我不曉得副秘書長你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6101.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6126.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那個其實那個醫審會這個部分呢他們那個成員三分之二以上也都是那個醫師那其他是社會公正人士譬如說有一些法學的刑法法學背景的這一些那個的人那所以說他們其實過去以來他們那個運作呢就是說最後在醫審會的時候其實都會經過一個很充分的一個討論對我們剛好可憐說你像譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6128.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6151.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
因為憲法法庭大法官會議解釋也常常會有不同意見書啊你像比如說你去註記不同意見的一個機制出審的意見跟決議不同的時候然後附上不同意見書給檢察官或者法院去做一個參酌我就覺得這個方式也還不錯這個可能要依審會他們來討論決定對我覺得這個建議我在想什麼第一個想到就是想到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6152.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6163.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我覺得可以參考一下是好方法,我是覺得好方法,不一定會被採取但至少是一個方向之一好不好,謝謝謝謝謝謝莊瑞雄委員,接下來請省發會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6187.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6214.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
主席我們請這個司法院副秘書長副秘書長請副秘書長早我們今天是針對這個我們司法院的一些這個凍結的預算來進行這個解凍案那事實上在去年的這個總預算的審查的時候我們有幾項的主決議,我看今天書面報告已經送來了那我特別關心這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6216.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6221.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
去年在總預算審查的時候,有關於第21項、26項、28項的這個組決議有關這個國民參與審判制度的這個成效大概都是,這個決議都是有關這個國民參與審判制度的這個成效的評估那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6236.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6250.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這個我看你們在5月10號有送了有把這三個案子的三個組決議的書面報告都送到本委員會來那我仔細的看那大致上的內容大概跟我們113年10月所做出來的這個112年國慾參與審判制度的成效評估報告大概就是這個內容大概一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6261.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6287.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以我大概就以這個112年的這個國民參審制的這個成效評估報告裡面的一些問題那在現在又經過了這個一年,我大概有些問題來跟副秘書長請教一下我看我們這個評估報告裡面第55頁他大概提出現在目前兩個這個國民法官的這個參審制度的這個最大的兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6290.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6318.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
第一個是第一個問題是我們目前所選出來這些國民法官的候選人他的組成他的這些年齡學歷跟職業分佈跟全國人口的這個落差這是我們我們自己評估報告指出來第一個大問題尤其是在50歲以上的人口高中職學歷以下還有退休的無業的家管的公教人員學生這些比例在整個人口結構的比例上面都有極大的落差這些部分都比例偏低 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6319.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6339.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那這個第二個問題就是說,也是同樣這份報告就是說國民法官的到場率偏低到場率現在只有,按照那個時候113年10月所做出來的評估報告國民法官的到場率只有45.9%,不到一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6345.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6369.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
這個到場率只有45.9%那所以我是大概針對這兩個問題就請要請我們這個司法院做一下說明我們是不是有什麼樣的措施來這個促使這個司法院進一步提升這個國民法官第一個促成國民法官這個組成他的多元性跟人口結構的這樣子的落差能夠把它彌平第二個就是說有關他的這個到場率的問題有什麼方式可以改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6370.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6374.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
有關於那個國民法官那個組成這個部分其實剛開始的時候他是經過兩次那個隨機的那個篩選的所以說是就那個人口裡面事實上沒有特定就是說任何人只要符合資格事實上他都會被那個篩那只是就是說被抽中之後到法院的人呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6393.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6416.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
他這個時候我想就會有他們主觀意願的問題就是什麼人他願意就是進到那個法院來那有些人他就不願意那後來所呈現的就是說到法庭來的實際上擔任國民法官那個人呢就是如同委員所垂詢的就是說他們那個分佈會跟就是整個人口數會有落差我想那個是中間這一層就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6417.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6435.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這個gap就是說認識什麼人有什麼樣具體的改善措施嗎提升他的多元化跟他的這個是那我們現在那個司法院所做的就是說還是一直在做那個推廣就是我們多元的那個宣導就是利用這個跟到場率大概有就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6436.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6465.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我希望說能夠聽到具體的措施啦具體的措施怎麼樣到底現在這個到場率這麼低它的這個具體的原因大概是什麼主要障礙是什麼啦那你們的改善方案是什麼就是描述這個現象這個你們在113年的報告裡面就已經描述了這個現象了但是我經過這一年多的時間我還是沒有看到你們的這個具體的改善措施啦尤其是再過半年115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6467.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6491.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
1月1號我們開始我們這個整個這個國民法官的審判的範圍大幅的擴大大幅擴大我們這個有關這個未來所犯本刑最新最新本刑為10年以上有期徒刑之罪全部通通要納入從明年1月1號開始對不對是所以現在這樣子的狀況我們沒有改善的話我是很擔心半年後這樣子的這個國民法官審判範圍擴大我們這個量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6494.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6512.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這個量能變這麼大是不是能夠負擔這部分我請你們要評估具體的措施時間的關係第二個就是有關這個量行就是你們同樣這份報告的第215頁你們提出有關量行鑑定量能不足的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6520.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6543.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那這個我們現在各地的這些醫療院所專業團隊他們對於這個參與量刑鑑定的這個認識跟參與意願還是非常的低啦,還是很有限那這個我也是同樣就是說希望我們這個是不是我們跟教育部跟衛福部這邊有沒有辦法來增加改善現在實務上對於量能鑑定團隊的這些需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6544.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6557.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那個跟委員報告就是司法院目前已經有就是把那個全國劃分成北中南還有東四個那個區那我們有主動的去邀請這一些那個法院目前有二十 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6563.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6578.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那我再補充一下有關於量能鑑定不足的部分我們行事已經持續在跟相關的醫療機構還有精神鑑定的相關機構來做研細目前我們把全國分成北中南東四個區塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6581.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6601.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這個設施是一個解決的部分,但是這部分我們過去確實一直在努力,因為實際上實務上就碰到量能不足的問題但是我們一直,這個學界也一直在提,社會也一直在提,除了這些量刑鑑定以外,有關於科刑資料的這些調查工具,這些部分我們有在做嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6602.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6623.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那我在這邊再做補充,有關於量刑前調查的部分不是鑑定,就是量刑前調查,就是科型資料的調查這部分我們已經委託台北大學專案研究,那這個大概在八月份整個研究案就會出來會包括如何做量刑的調查,這部分它有個操作手冊,我們稱為通用版的操作2.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6624.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6644.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這個部分我們有持續在處理因為確實即將在半年就要上路這個我們這個國民法官參審室整個這個他的案件就要擴大了所以這個部分擴大之後下去我自己事實上統計你十年以上的本行我這樣統計就有90多了90 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6648.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6676.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
二條的相關的這些案件都必須採取國民法官的審判所以這樣的量我希望你們能夠提早因應那接下來這個剩下一半分鐘的時間有關上個禮拜五我們本院的這個院會這個就通過了有關於法庭直播的這個法院組織法的修改近乎二讀了近乎二讀就是未來這個有關這個法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6677.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6693.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
要採取在事實省的部分也要採行原則上不直播在例外直播的狀況這部分把這樣子的法院組織法又禁覆二讀個人認為是非常不妥 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6700.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6726.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這個有關司法審判公開雖然是司改國事會議的結論但是他的公開的這個方法裡面是不是一定要採用直播這種方式事實上在社會上面是有蠻大的疑慮這樣子的一個社會上大家還有各方不同意見的案子你不把他讓他到委員會來進行專業的審查直接進負二讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6727.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6751.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我們現在這個立法院的這個立法品質的這禁負惡毒大家也知道那個品質禁負惡毒不要說有沒有討論常常在表決前半個小時我們都還不曉得他最後的這個修正案內容是什麼這個是很大的問題尤其是現在整個朝野協商的這個機制整個被掏空所以在這個幾乎是行事朝野協商都走形式而已所以變成這樣子這個案子禁負惡毒 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6752.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6768.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
馬上這個消息出來,就引起各方的真的很大的意見,我想司法院應該清楚,有關法官協會、女法官協會各個基層的這些司法官,對於未來的法庭直播看起來是非常非常的有疑慮這部分是不是請我們副院長這邊說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6772.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6788.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那個跟委員報告齁其實我們法官並不怕檢驗齁那我們的目前的法庭也非常的公開透明了齁只要是就是呃可以公開的那個審理的那個案件呢都歡迎大家就是那個進來那個旁聽就是監督我想這個這個司法這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6791.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6810.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
司法公開審理主要就是要增加司法的透明度還有就是要確保司法的可監督性但是絕對不等於直播不是說只有直播才是司法公開那直播是不是司法公開最好的方式他對司法有什麼樣的好處對公開審判有什麼好處他對公開審判造成什麼樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6813.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6833.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
的影響什麼樣的負面影響這個東西當然是事關重大事關重大現在這樣子的你如果說所有的法院法庭都必須直播當然這個法院組織法我知道它裡面有一些有一些例外的例外的不直播有一些規定但是事實上這樣直播的方式它最大的問題它 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6834.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6857.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
有一些疑慮是在我們立法之前一定要解決的一個報告委員就是因為他的疑慮非常大那所以說其實外國他們也都做了非常多的研究我知道我們這邊也都列出了外國立法例這個最怕的就是發生輿論的公審網路霸凌造成案件的這些包括連證人鑑定人他們的出席意願整個都降低甚至我們剛剛所討論國民法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6859.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6875.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
大家可能國民法官 要擔任國民法官 因為我要被直播 所以我擔任國民法官的意願就更加的低落啦 更加低落 這些都是問題啦 都是問題那更 這些只是技術問題而已 最怕的就是他衝擊這個這個不利於事實調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6876.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6905.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這才是我們最怕的不利於事實調查他沒有影響公平審判他侵害訴訟當事人的訴訟權這個東西會不會這方面的影響要如何的來避免一定要把這些問題都排除之後這個法庭的直播他才應該上路你剛提到外國立法例我事實上我這邊也列出了很多日本都是禁止的日本美國聯邦法院他一律禁止媒體轉播部分的州法院有可以轉播 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6906.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6927.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
英國、加拿大、法國、德國這些我們都有列那台灣我們就是最進步啦這些網紅直播主這個在台灣也是特別的發達啦這個我想我們把這樣的法院組織法把它淨附二讀這部分我希望我們司法院這邊能夠確實的去了解我們現在目前不管是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6929.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6947.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
盤點我們整個開放法庭直播它造成的衝擊啦這個可能很快因為進負惡毒可能很快就就要面對了很快就要面對了它造成的重大衝擊喔你們要適時的對外說明好不好是是好不好好謝謝委員委員一律也是我們司法院的立場謝謝好謝謝審發會委員很專業的質詢好來接下來呢我們請王宏威委員宣達 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6966.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6993.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
謝謝主席慢慢來,不要緊張好,謝謝主席其實主席,剛才審判會委員講的我也有仔細在聽那或許我們也可以開一個公聽會,來在座討論好,那先請司法院的副秘書長請王副秘書長還有保部,今天是政治嘛 王次長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6998.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7020.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我想請問一下5月14號最高法院刑事大法庭做了一個裁定的宣告主要是針對我們的詐欺犯罪危害防治條例的第47條有關於這個減輕期刑的適用範圍那我們司法院就是最高法院刑事大法庭宣告裁定 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7020.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7041.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
但是看起來呢引起了兩方的大戰我們法務部顯然不以為然那我想先請問一下就說這個媒體也都有報導因為我們非常關心有關於詐欺其實我們很多的民眾非常不爽的就是第一個我們詐欺這個詐騙沒有好好抓 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7045.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7066.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
第二個好像抓到了之後呢也沒有好好的罰他們也沒有重罰所以今天我們的這樣的一個宣告這樣的一個減刑的一個適用範圍的宣告連法務部都很不爽那我想請問一下這是5月14號到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7068.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7083.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
包含這個法務部跟司法院針對這件事情有沒有補救或者是法務部提出說要做修法這個部分我想請問一下是不是先請司法院先來說然後再請法務部來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7086.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7103.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那個報告委員吼因為有關於那個大法庭的這個裁定就是因為就是這個法律通過之後呢有關於這個所謂的就是繳交犯罪所得這個檢刑要件到底是怎麼解釋是這個現在抓到了這個特定的這個被告他自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7104.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7132.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我了解對 就是有關因為法務部現在不爽這個宣告就是認為這個對於他的範圍太過的限縮只是以他他自己自白我有多少犯罪所得然後他就可以獲得減刑我想這個也是我剛才講民眾非常關心的不爽的 不滿的就是第一個詐欺犯沒有好好抓抓了以後也沒有重罰然後民眾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7134.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7153.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
這個被詐欺所得也都拿不回來我們這一陣子不管母親節或端午節我每一次的活動每一天都有人跟我反應這個事情大家其實民怨非常非常深所以我想請問一下這個宣告合理嗎還是說你們會再採取法務部的意見來做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7155.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7183.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那個跟委員報告因為最高法院大法庭所做的裁定這完全是一個審判職權的一個形式所以我們司法行政是尊重的那就是如果法務部他們要修法就是把這個法律那個文藝就是定得更清楚那這個部分司法院會尊重的好所以這唯一的現在唯一的救濟的方式只有像法務部所說的唯一只能用修法的方式嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7184.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7210.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
跟委員報告這一個部分我們先說明在大法庭延遲辯論的時候事實上我們的最高檢在延遲辯論的時候堅定的表達說應該要關於這個條文在法案條例47條應該要參照立法理由所述是主要的目的是為了要填補犯罪被害人所受損害來做解釋那很無奈這個最高法院大法庭並沒有採取這樣的一個見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7211.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7227.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
所以現在目前會有最快的速度來提出相關的法條的文字的修法讓文藝更明確來反映在立法旅遊的目的上面所以現在看起來唯有修法意圖囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7228.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7249.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
因為這個法律解釋的權責還是在這個中省的法院也是最高法院在大法庭的裁定事實上確實會發生解釋上的拘束力那麼既然大法庭已經做除非大法庭另外再重新做出不同意見的解釋我覺得這件事情是不是也反映出我們的法院是不是跟人民離得太遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7250.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7266.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
如果之前不管是立法院的通過的這個條例或者法務部所認定的那麼跟我們司法院大法庭這個最高法院的大法庭所做出來宣告離得這麼遠最後我們又要用修法的方式來加以彌補 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7268.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7298.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這是不是就是我們真的覺得在司法上我們有些人是覺得政治干預司法好這個我倒是覺得這跟政治無關但是這也是讓人民對於司法沒有任何信心的主要的原因嘛好大家都認為說這個詐欺就是詐騙我們要嚴打嚴罰結果我們做出來的這個判就是做出來的判決還是有利於加害人而不是有利於被害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7299.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7307.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
是不是我們都是 我們司法上是不是都是有這樣的問題啊我們 鳳斌署長可以回答我嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7308.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7335.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那個報告委員我想那個大法庭他們會有這樣子的一個那個做出一個這樣子的那個解釋他們是有他們那個法理的那個根據的那在那個大法庭的裁定理由裡面也都有那個交代我要講的就是說在詐騙這件事情已經到了人神共憤了民怨沸騰的狀況之下然後我們還是可以關在冷氣房裡面做出我們自己的判決同樣的我也請教我們的這個次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7338.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7352.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我們最近大家認為說司法到底能不能信任最近你們有一位檢察官升官就是林俊炎這當然這位林俊炎檢察官之前我也不認識他 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7353.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7367.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那主要是 他是偵辦柯文哲的案件所以呢 突然聲名大噪果不其然呢 他也就升官了我想請問一下 在最近這一兩年我們檢察官系統裡面升官怎麼都是辦這些政治案件 辦到政治正確 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7377.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7384.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
然後通通可以升官之前前有我們的法務部長鄭明謙因為他辦了林兹廟然後立刻官運亨通然後接下來辦高雄安的幾個檢察官辦完之後通通升官 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7396.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7420.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
好那現在又有林俊炎也是辦了柯文哲的案子也立刻升官接下來朱家榮一樣的他辦吳思瑤吳沛毅立委罷免聯署的檢察官也立刻被推薦然後在升官的名單上啦好同樣的郭劍玉也是來辦柯文哲的案子通通升官所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7422.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7448.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
政治正確是不是檢察官升官的?這樣講是非常不公平的這個表 檢察官他是申請轉任法官這也不能說是升官那其他的不是升官嗎?其他的事實上升主任檢察官目前本部有相當完整的程序不但要經過檢察官的票選而且還要有檢審會的機制來把關並不是單純由行政官員來占讀怎麼都那麼巧呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7449.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7455.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
只要辦到政治正確的案件然後就那麼容易升官呢所以我要特別講喔在在司法裡面不管是政治案件或詐欺案件司法都應該成為維護人民正義的最後一道防線我剛才講的案例就是這個當然是你們法務部跟這個我們這個司法院之間這個宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7478.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7481.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
的之間有漢格當然這個部分我是支持法務部的也許你們在第一線辦案然後一個一個宣告就讓你們真的就沒有辦法好好的研辦那同樣的法務部現在的檢察官我們也好多次的來做質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7496.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7517.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
如果說今天林俊仁法官當然他辦的是柯文哲金華城的案件但是他現在所透露出的過程裡面包含他跑到醫院裡面然後要求關掉錄音錄影然後做詢問這個根本是不被容許的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7517.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7522.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
對不對 這樣子的一個辦案手法這樣一個 我現在還不講他把所有這些辦案的訊息通通透露給淨檢這個淨檢是你們部長所認證的你們的另外一個單位淨檢然後在他的辦案過程裡面可以到了醫院裡面把錄音錄影全部關掉然後來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7543.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7571.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這樣可以嗎這樣應該被懲罰吧怎麼還會被升官這是你要告訴所有的檢察官都可以這樣辦案嗎剛才所以講說法庭上要不要直播剛才省法會委員講到的一些可能有直播的一些的負面的作用其實我認為應該被檢討但是問題是大家非常擔心而且非常痛恨的司法辦案不能夠黑箱同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7572.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7588.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
就是不能黑箱嘛我想司法方案沒有黑箱的問題那請問我就講一件事你詢問你詢問一個被告然後關掉錄音錄影請問一下是不是黑箱這樣的辦案手法可以被鼓勵嗎你所說的事情被告辯護人都有全程在場的 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7590.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7604.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
你可以關掉錄音錄影嗎?可不可以關掉錄音錄影?你講了以後這個都做記錄就說你今天詢問檢察官詢問被告然後說要讓他咬出另外一個被告但是我把錄音錄影全部關掉你覺得可以嗎?來 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7606.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7621.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
市長說那一個事件北檢已經有新聞稿說明過了他並不是一個詢問而是依照羈押法去做的視察那最後呢也在他發文有沒有講是去詢問啊最後也有說明他發文有沒有去做詢問啊他跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7621.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7648.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
跟他跟醫院的發文就是去詢問啊所以也就是說法務部可以包庇可以縱容可以容忍檢察官這樣的黑箱辦案然後還可以讓他升官這是要做什麼樣的不是指案事這是民事所以我要講就是說如果我們今天辦案不管是詐欺辦案不管是這個政治性的辦案我覺得最不能容忍的就是黑箱辦案 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7649.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7660.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
同不同意所以我要講說為什麼大家通通都希望你們能夠公開啊尤其你們不能夠去鼓勵甚至讓這樣的檢察官去升官 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7661.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7677.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
全民沒有辦法信任今天如果柯文哲可以這樣明天如果對待你黃士傑你可以接受嗎對待我王宏偉我也不能接受啊檢察官怎麼可以就關掉錄音錄影然後只為了要說抓住黃士傑你只要咬住黃士傑我把你錄音錄影全部關掉可以這樣嗎這叫個案喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7684.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7705.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
蛤 你給他三關不就要通案了嗎你不是告訴全部的檢察官說你們都可以這樣幹嗎所以我要講的是我們一直支持檢察官在第一線辦案但是如果檢察官用不正當的黑箱辦案絕對不能容許 更是 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7706.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7718.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
更可離譜的是 竟然還可以讓他升官你們法部看這麼多的案例真的政治正確你們真的要讓檢察官都這樣幹法嗎如果檢察官如此的東廠化對我們的司法絕對只是傷害 好不好好 謝謝王偉委員這位黃次長的聲音剛好高一點點就旗鼓相當 很精彩接下來請吳思瑤委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7746.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7758.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
好 謝謝主席我請我們的司法院副秘請王副秘書長然後法務部政次黃次長我特別請法服的莊董事長好 我原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7770.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7774.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
大家辛苦了今天題目有點多我們把握時間了下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7775.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7801.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
最近有立法委員公然的批判了法服只幫加害人他批判了法服幫加害人是司法的嚴重傾斜其實不光是張其凱委員在上週的這個言論早在今年的一二月我觀察到整個媒體的報導輿論嚴重的操作對於法服的污名化 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7802.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7819.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
譬如說我看到這個一月份吧這媒體也特別的在扭曲說法服幫助的都是詐欺犯然後幫助的案類的前五名都是加害者就是搭配 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7820.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7843.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我不曉得張其凱委員是不是剛好就是看到一二月的那個錯誤的報導所以呢讓他做出了這種嚴重的打擊法服而且完全不符合事實的陳述任何一個立法委員發言真的要慎重否則對於成立了21年的法服從三個分會開始現在22個分會我們幫助了無數的 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7848.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7869.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
為了捍衛憲法的這個訴訟權跟平等權為了捍衛了司法的公平性成立了法服多少個律師群專業人士來投入所以我想就教於董事長喔到底啊我們就先講服務對象好了法服都指幫忙加害人嗎當然不是首先呢感謝委員對於法服的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7877.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7894.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那我想呢,這個您剛剛的所提問的,其實民眾呢,是一般民眾都會這樣想的。但是多年來呢,法湖一直在宣導,我們法湖糊塗的對象,絕對不叫做幫助加害人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7895.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7913.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我們都是在技弱來救平我們是針對法治國家裡面我們認為有這個必要對一些在天平上我們在審判庭的時候那檢察官就代表了被害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7914.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7932.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
他對於被告直接的控訴呢他需要有一個均衡的力量在審判上各自聽到我這裡有個資訊就我所調查的資料我想立委站上質詢台都要做功課而不是像張祺凱這樣無地放矢還涉及抹黑造假 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7933.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7954.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
法服的服務對象48%是經濟弱勢的家庭然後34%是由法院轉介的強制辯護的案件所以並沒有選擇你是加害人你是受害人因為法服在接案受理的時候你不能為審先判嘛所以我的資訊是正確的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7955.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7970.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
是的所以法服不是指幫加害人嘛就服務對象絕對不是不是就是不是請張綺凱委員收回她的話甚至要向服務法服的這些專業人士法律界的人士來道歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7971.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7980.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
第二個呢 就案件類啊我也去做了這個調查法服的協助的案件類最大宗有10142件 18%其實是幫助人民做還債也就是信用卡的卡債 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7990.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8014.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
所以以案件來講也不是什麼詐欺類最多刑事案件最多所以除了對象不是只幫加害人他是一視同仁的 技弱救貧的然後在案件類也不是服務詐欺犯服務那些刑事案件的罪犯而是來幫助民眾最需要的而且因為他就是弱勢所以很多人是因為弱勢他可能去借錢可能去卡債 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8015.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8033.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
所以你們最高的案類18%都是在協助民眾還債的這一類我的資訊正確嗎是的那現在法服受到這樣我給您一點點時間好不好給您30秒好好對社會正向的訴求不要汙名化法服 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8034.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8056.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
當然對法輔的誤解我們已經多年來一直在澄清我也希望呼籲各界能夠支持法輔這是我們施法裡面在輔助人民很安定的一股力量有22個分會4000多名法輔律師在幫全民做各種的法律服務絕對不是指因為特定 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8057.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8071.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
限定說是加害人或是被害人而是只要他是生活弱勢或者是說經濟上的弱勢或是其他有需要法律適當輔助的我們都一起包含在內 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8072.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8095.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
很重要的一個觀念我覺得我們的法治教育立委最需要受法治教育了這一年來其實法服是在程序正義上來幫忙所以程序正義上是一視同仁的法服不會成為法院之上的法院法服不會先去判定你這個來懲請協助的人是加害人是被害因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8096.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8117.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
不論法律上的加害被害都是要透過司法的偵查跟審判才能夠斷定嘛無罪推定嘛是所以辛苦你們了我們持續做對的事今天也有一個案子解凍是跟法輔被凍結了翁小玲委員凍結了一千萬我希望能夠替你們伸張正義謝謝謝謝好您請回好下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8118.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8137.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那跟騷法的三週年回到今天的這個專報的主題其實我當初也是一路催生的立委之一三年了我們需要好好的檢視我們先用數字2022年上路到現在我們各警察機關受理的案件有8488件家暴類38%一般跟騷62%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8143.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8170.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
而以2024去年一整年呢 跟騷處理有2806件當中對我們最有意義的是說警方呢 警政部門核發了書面告誡的比率其實很高 67%而法院核發跟騷保護令的比例也很高 67%而我認為很有意義的是經由檢方核發書面告誡他再犯跟騷的比例是低於10% |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8172.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8191.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
而且經由法院核發了跟騷的保護令之後呢在持續加害持續跟騷的低於5%換言之就達到我們當初的立法以及制度的一個有效的一個陰影兩位是不是都看到正面的結果哪一位要代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8193.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8208.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那個同一位人所說的齁那其實我們那個法院那個統計裡面可能是那個基準不一樣我們的甚至還到達七成是是是到七成法院合法到達七成好我整理的是百分之六十七點三好下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8209.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8236.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
但是呢當初我們在倡議的時候在立法的時候都一直認為他的對象啊都要限縮於與性及性別有關當初我們在倡議立法的委員有很多的意見當然我們理解警政部門認為資源有限警政部門認為說先優先從這種高風險的案件因為在立法那個時候是很多情殺啦跟騷之後被殺害 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8239.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8268.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以優先從這種對象來下手但是上路了三年以後是不是可以更妥協的去我們可不可能嚴議來增訂成案的排除條款更進一步刪除只侷限於性與性別的案類為什麼這麼說呢可能是傑次長要回應我發現很多跟騷的人是被黑道討債的啦對不對那像這種案類很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8269.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8286.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
是不是就可以納入一個跟騷的範圍各位很棒因為這個是內政部主管的法令那你認為呢我想這個要經過通盤的研議因為上次討論的時候其實就已經有那時候你還是立委你也參與這個法律討論那我們內政部的代表好嗎那個馬次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8289.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8304.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
如果繼續侷限於性與性別有關其實你真的沒有辦法幫助我說黑道討債就是很明顯的一個案例啊他派黑道來跟騷你造成你身心靈的壓力甚至有進一步的暴力事件來次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8306.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8329.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
其實我們除了黑道到暴力討債之後我們還有聚眾滋擾跟鄰里糾紛還有記者追蹤那總共有四個樣態是跟目前的更少法的構成要件這是不一樣那有一個比較重要的考量就是說因為如果把性與性別的定義排除掉的話會影響到我們很多正常的社會互動這樣的一個過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8330.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8334.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那對一般人來講但我在聚焦嘛我說那黑道討債是不是就是相對明確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8336.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8362.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
因為目前的話黑照討債主要是依照刑法跟警方的條文我覺得這個大哉問啦當初我們在立法的時候我講過的話我今天還是希望能夠好好在三週年因為原本三週年上路你們就要檢視法律好下面的意見下一頁我再講下一頁請你們一併納入檢視了也就是相對人的治療性的處遇計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8364.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8386.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
比照家暴案例我發現一個我講重點家暴案例對於這些處遇計畫其實它是有警政跟涉政跟衛政的協力才能夠提出具體的處遇性計畫也能夠有效來幫助但是對於跟遭只是著重在警政方面的作為對於處遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8388.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8398.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
就真的沒有辦法做到是不是有這樣子的問題還有包括那個申請人的那個要預繳預繳這個可以用啊整個不友善的處遇性計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8400.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8419.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
跟委包這個被害人要預繳這個部分我們跟衛福部在協調因為他的確是一個不合理的設計而且不低耶對這個不合理這個我們都從被害人的角度我們都知道這個有問題什麼時候會有答案我們會盡快因為我們在上個月我們已經跟衛福部的代表我們有見過面好加速好嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8422.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8435.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那其他的儲蓄計畫那委員剛有提到就是說儲蓄性計畫的話如果我們法院根據更少法第12條第一項第三款有合法保護令的話它的治療性儲蓄計畫它是有強制力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8436.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8455.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
可是那要這相對困難嘛對那如果說是那個其他的法條他有這個所謂的認知輔導或教育的話他就不是具有強制力的部分市長你可能不是這方面的專業啦你是防災的專家啦我建議喔三周年就是要好好檢視跟騷法我提出來的幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8456.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8475.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
譬如說範圍的界定以及這個處遇性的計畫內容不夠具體不夠明確以至於它過偏於在警政如何讓衛政跟社政的系統能夠融入然後還有剛剛你說的那個申請人預繳的那個處遇性費用我當然支持要馬上能做的馬上做我希望我們未來還有機會來討論好好去把三週年上路以後的檢視計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8481.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8490.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
檢討計畫再提出來否則我還是正面的肯定我剛剛第一頁秀出來的相當高的警察員警當初都很怕案類很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8491.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8511.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
看起來我覺得還是一個很好的執行成績嘛我們很努力啊因為這個部分的確一定要保護這個部分的好我們希望保護能夠不漏接不漏接任何一個身處被跟騷的人的心理壓力好嗎那我們今天就希望等一下司法院還有稍後國安會的解凍都能夠順利好謝謝我們完整檢討謝謝謝謝吳斯堯委員接下來請林淑芬委員選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8528.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8534.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
好 謝謝主席 是不是請我們司法院的副秘書長請王副秘書長副秘書長 我今天不是要跟你討論根騷而是要跟你討論三峽重大的死亡車禍案件三死十二傷那如果這樣子的話 你知道他們的民事訴訟的審理是怎麼 是拿一種審理模式嗎一般審理 還是簡易審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8559.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8576.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我請那個廳長來回覆廳長你不知道這個我去年就問過了廳長知道啦你 副秘書長你現在是司法院的最高行政這個管理的首長這個目前那個民事訴訟法這是屬於那個檢疫案件跟交通相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8577.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8602.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我是要告訴你如果是民事訴訟的官司啊從110年還是哪一年修法以後全部一律改成簡易訴訟程序民事訴訟法第433之1條這是很重大的變革但是如果是刑事附帶民事一樣是什麼審理你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8604.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8633.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
你也不知道 那我再跟你講刑事部對民事 向刑事庭提出的民事訴訟的審理理論上刑事庭 刑事庭還是會移到民事庭去處理民事庭還是一樣交給檢疫庭審理那請問你13傷亡3個人死亡 13個人輕重傷如果是這樣的民事訴訟官司啊是檢疫審理 你可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8636.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8640.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
報告委員我想當時修的時候在立法院修的時候他是有他的那個考量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8642.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8666.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以我要藉著今天這個三峽的重大的死亡車禍和13個輕重傷這麼重大的車禍來告訴你當初修法的時候只想到要趕快結案可是訴訟的最核心是要實現當事人的權利是要實踐審判的公平要得到一個公平的審判可是你們為了趕快趕快趕快然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8668.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8678.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
把所有的交通事故的民事訴訟全部改成檢疫審理而檢疫審理的特色是什麼它的特性是什麼你不知道喔檢疫審理來委員不好意思可以容我來應以一次其日辯論終結為原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8691.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8698.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
應以一次其日辯論終結為原則但是我知道民視庭有檢附資料給我過我有看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8700.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8712.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
在111年5520個省捷的交通這個民事訴訟裡面有1690次不是省一次我知道然後在112年9350件裡面有3789件不是省一次在113年的前10個月8576件有3347件不是省一次但是但是來了現在啊我在講 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8730.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8734.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
副秘書長為什麼要再跟你講 因為前一個副秘書長大家都亂講 立委的質詢都亂講事實上呢 我現在要講 你看起來好像法官審人仔細不止一次你知道簡義廷的法官 我在這裡講過 簡義廷的法官每個月包括銀行債權等等 每個月超過100件以上要審結 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8758.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8786.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
100件以上所以他說基本上啊 基本上他們都不會做出這個事實的這個證據的調查你知道這個交通事故的審理啊不只是遭受責任的比例醫療的費用 看護的費用撫養費用需要調查 失能的失能的比例要鑑定所以當然不可能是一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8787.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8814.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
你們當時的黃凌倫的副秘書長就說很難一次但是大多數都一次然後還說當事人可以請求改為一般審理可是當事人請求改成一般審理有一個要件要法院和法官同意法院和法官同意你們最喜歡講當事人程序自主權 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8816.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8843.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
在這個時候就沒有當事人程序自主權了沒有只能法院或法官同意而不是當事人說我請求要改為一般審理 通常程序審理就可以沒有在這種狀況裡面在這種狀況裡面我又講 去年我就講了通常檢議庭的法官不會幫你改成一般程序審理為什麼你知道嗎 副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8846.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8867.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
來 廳長 你經過了 你知道 你再講一次跟委員報告啦 因為我以前也擔任過檢疫庭的法官其實以檢疫庭法官的立場你什麼時候當過檢疫庭的法官 幾年十幾年前 這個法律才剛改啦所以你的時代沒有這種制度啦沒有 我是要跟委員報告是說以檢疫庭法官的立場 他改成通常程序反而是他會歡迎的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8870.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8889.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這跟委員說明一下簡義廷的法官改成通常程序他會歡迎因為我們的那個要件裡面綁兩個嘛一個是五百萬以上一個是案情複雜請委員讓我說明完畢您再做您的高見批評因為簡義廷法官來講他改成通常程序要辦案期限是延長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8890.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8905.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
也就是說他不用在比較短的時間去做我們一般認為還有沒有另外一個理由是什麼還有沒有其他的說法那另外就是說當事人本身他如果對這個案件真的是要求通通的去與剛才委員垂詢的那個三峽的不幸往生案例為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8907.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8916.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這種案例來講 正常狀況就是案情複雜而且他一定是超過五百萬你現在是不死人間煙火他這一個個案 你聽我說他可以改為一般通常程序審理前提是檢疫庭的法官要繼續審理然後呢 調查程序可能會很久然後呢 不要忘了他的案件每個月交付來的他案件永遠累積在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8936.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8960.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
你們當初為什麼改成啊不把檢疫庭他如果改成一般審理就移交給一般庭去審理因為你們就是怕檢疫庭的法官偷懶你們自己當初就講怕他把所有案件都移到一般庭那把這種東西再留下來他不是搬石頭砸自己的腳我每個月用一百多元為了你一件又要拖後來又有這種改成一般審理我就繼續拖 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8966.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8980.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
永無寧日啦現在這次簡怡婷的法官又不是笨蛋事實上簡怡婷的法官也想要這樣子我的辦公室接到幾個簡怡婷法官的家屬來陳情她在我質詢完以後 妳說妳說出了我們的心聲欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8981.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9002.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
你十幾年前是檢議庭的法官你現在不是你如果檢議庭怎麼審理的你都不知道如果改成一般通常程序審理還是你這個檢議庭的法官在審理他會做事他不可能我現在跟你說改成通常程序審理的比例有多高嗎通常程序審理的比例有多高你知道嗎多高你知道嗎好我有資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9008.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9019.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
他從檢疫程序改成一般審理通常程序審理110年5,520件裡面有42件112年9,350件裡面有52件113年的前10個月8,576件裡面有48件比例是千分之7.6千分之5.6千分之5.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9037.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9054.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我現在要跟你說 當然我不是講三峽這個個案但我從三峽這個個案裡面要告訴你 把修法改成所有交通事故包括三峽這個案子 全部一律交給警議庭去審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9057.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9076.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這是多麼荒謬的事情而你到現在你民視聽聽長你還說簡義廷的法官很歡迎你這個是與事實不符你這個叫不食人間煙火你這個叫做吃飯卡中的你不知道你簡義廷的法官現在是做到要死 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9078.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9079.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
然後呢這個是忽略了當事人要實現當事人要實現自己的權利啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9089.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9106.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
委員我稍微回應兩點第一點當初為什麼要把道路交通案件改為檢驗案件就檢驗案件的本質它這是一個原則它會快速讓被害者加速獲償加速獲得交通案件樣態霸霸俏交通事件的樣態好幾種你 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9109.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9120.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
小小的擦傷 沒有什麼大的傷害 也是交通案件三死十二輕重傷 也是交通案件你們現在是疑慮欸 疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9123.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9145.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
委員我們現在是原則例外的問題原則為了讓被害者快收場原則原則是這樣子但你的例外啊事實上是很難啊例外可以依法官來獨立一當事人的要求另外跟委員報告當事人的程序自主權我現在要求當事人的程序自主權如果你限縮在五百萬以上那一百萬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9150.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9168.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我損失一百萬的人 我的命 我的胸 我的命比五百萬的人 比較不值錢我的胸 我比一百萬的人 比較不值錢你們就可以去申請 我就不可以申請我現在人命有貴賤嗎 第一個第二個 當事人權利 自主 程序自主我們要求當事人程序自主 你的門檻要效降因為 人的命 是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9179.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9196.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
你五百萬是很大的門檻耶 很高的門檻委員 我們還有一個門檻叫案情複雜案情複雜所以實際上 五十一萬案情複雜也可以轉那案情簡單 但是損失四百九十萬的這不就不值得改成一般審理了嗎那要由個案來判決那我問你 那我問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9196.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9200.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
妳在整個生理程序裡面 我講過喔 我講過文化資本高的 經濟資本高的我要幾年 我已經準備得好 我要去跟他們說我的失能程度 我的傷重程度 然後我的看護費用我的撫養費用 我的肇事責任 我的醫療費用我通通準備好了 我看護費用 我整理好了文化資本高的 經濟資本高的沒問題 我都準備好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9222.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9230.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
可是呢 文化資本低的 經濟資本低的你以為到法院就是請求正義的開始你去那裡什麼都不知道 都沒準備然後跟你說 你這個一百萬的傷亡 你請求一百萬而已好啦 回去啦 沒啦 沒再開啦 算啦 沒啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9239.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9254.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
跟委員報告因為交通案件如果致人死傷一般都有刑事案件我剛才前面就講了 你就忘了嗎我現在剛才說的 刑事附帶民事 刑事聽來 刑事聽不來 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9255.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9270.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
他會刑事庭自己審理嗎通常法院的運作都是移出到民事庭對不對來 刑事庭 廳長實務上是這個樣子實務上是嘛 那移到民事庭以後民事庭以後是不是交給檢疫審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9272.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9296.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
對 但是因為證據資料都有啊 相關的證據資料在刑事案件都有 它會依照民調你每一件都說得很簡單的 我剛才甚至可以說六十十個甚至我剛剛都沒有把卷宗看完啦 不要再這麼騙啦所以我是要跟你講 我現在跟你講 至少你要給當事人給當事人一個 你們最喜歡講的程序自主權 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9298.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9323.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
而我們提出了要從檢疫審理改成一般審理的時候至少要不是你們決定我們也要有決定權你們想法大小通知我們都給改成這樣這已經很亂來啊然後我現在就說你們完全都不覺得自己有問題完全不覺得這個制度運作下來損害了多少當事人的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9325.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9348.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
這個才是最令人覺得可悲的啦司法 副秘書長 副秘書長 跟麥哥說你們黃凌倫當初在講胡說八道的還說簡易庭改成一般庭審理不用寫書面裁定這也亂說的然後我們還要求什麼 還說非上訴你說簡易庭的法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9349.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9375.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
民事訴訟的時候 把肇事責任的50看成20能不能飛上訴到第三審 還說會死的根本就不可能 都不會贏的委員不好意思 我再補充一下 剛才委員提到說一定要下正式書面裁定 沒有我們在113年12月26號也發一個通函有囉 我叫你發 你發了齁不是 它在法律上本來就是一個程序性裁定啊程序上裁定喔 它本來就是記名百例 口頭預知 你在什麼時候發的 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9377.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9398.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
113年12月26號對阿 我質詢了 叫你們發來 黃玲倫我叫她發來嘛那張公文沒給我看 我叫你們給我看 你們也沒有好 來 我剛才說非上訴 第三審因為你的民事訴訟有別 簡義廷的訴訟有別於一般訴訟其實是不准 不准上訴到第三審的 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9399.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9413.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
剝奪掉了 除非有特殊要件啊除非是引用的法律錯誤啊那我剛才講了如果法官把被害者的私能比例是50 看成20他的判決就給他寫成20他能不能再上訴到第三審 不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9415.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9435.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這制度面就有問題我是從三峽三個人死亡 十二個輕重傷一律都有這個問題來告訴你你們的修法問題很大傅秘書長如果說像您剛才提到那個比例原則比例的問題明顯說是它可以構成再整治室友 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9436.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9462.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
在審的事由法條上面是怎麼寫法條上面是怎麼寫這在我們民事訴訟法裡面法條上面寫的是四百六十六條不是來四百六十六條當事人僅得以其適用法規顯有錯誤為理由適用法規顯有錯誤才可以飛越上訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9465.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9485.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
請問,把失能的比例從50看成20,叫做適用法規,顯有錯誤嗎?我們在檢疫案件裡面是擴大的,它不只是這個而已好啦,現在還可以,因為朱先生站起來很久了啦副秘書長,我的罪惡問你啦,剛才講的一律,一律都以檢疫審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9487.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9497.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
這樣才對三峽的死亡三死 十二輕重傷的事故一律也是檢疫審理 這樣才好政策評估的結論是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9517.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9535.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
你也不知道,不要再說了,再說你也是再說那套啦沒有變啦,你們沒有變你們也不所謂的程序自主權也不還給當事人啦你們的門檻也沒有下調啦你們所謂的可以這個上訴再審的條件啦一樣是不行的啦好啦,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9537.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9565.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
好 謝謝林淑芬委員接下來我們請翁曉琳委員其實列席的官員可以多一點你們的委員的詢問的時候可以把自己的專業不用怕不好意思啦這樣才會比較精彩一點尤其是碰到翁曉琳委員 好不好好的 謝謝主席那我們首先先請王副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9567.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9595.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
請王副秘書長王副秘書長是非常非常專業的這個王副秘早安委員早安我今天的這個質詢我想有幾個重點我首先我想請教就是針對大法官在113年憲判之八號判決做成之後那麼不知道現在司法院是不是已經有提出相關的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9596.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9611.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
就針對像是法官要以自決等等的這些大法官在憲判自8號當中所預知的就是要啟動修法現在司法院有動作了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9614.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9630.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
司法院在那個宪判八之後呢有關於刑事還有那個法院組織法那個部分現在都有就是進入那個研修的那個程序那現在目前有組成一個委員會已經進行了那個好幾次的那個會議了那主要就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9631.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9632.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
你們預計什麼時候會提出? |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9654.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9667.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我們那個六月就是因為討論討論得非常的那個充分那些已經進行了好幾次那六月的時候還有那個下一次下一次的那個會議是在六月 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9668.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9697.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
也就是說是你們大概在接下來大概六七月七八月的時候可能就可以提出你們的司法院的法案修法的法案是嗎今年一定會提出來的因為在上個禮拜其實中選會他沒收了立法院所提出來的公投這個當然我認為中選會是違法濫權他根本無權去審查立法院所提出的公投案更何況我們針對大法官所提出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9700.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9726.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這個判處死刑是否需要經過法官一致決的這樣的議題然後請人民表示意見是否贊成大法官所提示的所做成的這樣的一個判決理由那這個當然會涉及到我們這個之後立法院就相關的案子的這個重大政策立法政策但是很遺憾的這個中選會已經不是獨立機關了就是一個政治機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9727.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9743.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那麼竟然還敢沒收立法院的公投案更何況在我們現在的公投法裡面施立法院通過公投案時候交由中選會辦理所以中選會不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9748.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9767.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
拒絕這個不辦的權利不過這個部分當然跟司法院無關所以我在這裡只是提醒就是詢問有關於司法院現在修法的進度那接下來我要請教就是說在114年度司法院的總預算案有沒有比113年還有增加還是減少114年整個是增加的整個是增加 增加多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9775.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9778.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那個數字我得看一下那個數字增加16億多吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9786.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9808.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
大概是這個數字所以整體來說是司法院的預算是有比去年增加因為我們現在知道民進黨黨團行政院他們都有針對114年的政府總預算案提起釋憲請問這次的提起釋憲的範圍針對總預算案提起釋憲的範圍有包含司法院的預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9815.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9820.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
因為我們的世華運的預算是併在中央政府總預算裡面所以說他整個事先案應該是包含我們是屬於裡面的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9836.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9850.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
所以他們之前申請釋憲這個114年總預算釋憲案都沒有來徵詢過司法院的意見要不要把你們司法院的預算也納在申請釋憲的範圍裡面都沒有徵詢過司法院的意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9851.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9879.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
沒有都沒有所以你們就莫名其妙的就被這個申請釋憲你們是有針對今年的今年度通過的這個預算案有任何不滿的地方嗎不是他釋憲是整個中央政府總預算但是我們是包含在這裡面那麼請問一下監察院之前他們申請的預算案的釋憲他也是針對整個一包嗎114年的總預算案嗎還是針對他們的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9883.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9901.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
公務員說明監察院的部分是就他們監察院的預算部分所以就代表是可以分開的嘛那你如果司法院你們沒有認為說我的預算案的部分有申請釋憲的必要那的話為什麼行政院這麼不尊重司法院喔直接把你們的預算案一起併在114年的總預算裡面然後一起申請釋憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9904.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9926.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我覺得司法院要出來抗議啊 如果說你們沒有認為這一次我們立法院審查司法院的預算有顯不合理或是這個影響到你們司法院權益的地方的話 你們可以拒絕啊所以我認為說行政院 卓榮泰是很不尊重司法院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9928.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9954.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
他應該要徵詢你們的意見你們的部分要不要提出放在14年的預算案裡面去申請釋憲我接下來要講的就是說從法律的角度來看假設我們現在假設憲法法庭認為14年總預算案可能全部或部分的違憲退回給立法院重審 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9957.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9968.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
請問 副女士長 你們有沒有信心你們的預算經費會和現在一樣嗎或是至少比現在更增加嗎你們有沒有想過這個問題因為現在是申請釋憲嘛所以代表這個預算案的效率是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9983.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10007.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
可能是屬於一個這個實質上效率未定的問題雖然我們知道說預算經過立法院三讀通過之後的法定預算在大法官的解釋把它定位為措施性法律對不對既然定位為措施性法律它就生效了所以已經在執行了那麼如果說憲法法庭之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10008.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10034.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
很白目的真的宣告了這個2014年的政府總預算案全部或是部分違憲那麼後續的呢後續的效率為何這部分其實我蠻想聽聽看司法院的高見你們會認為說現在的這個預算執行到某個程度之後全部都無效所以你們執行也全無效然後全部回到這個原點然後發回給立法院重新審 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10036.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10063.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
一個報委員因為這個部分涉及那個大法官他們那個解釋那個權責所以我們司法行政我們真的那個沒有我覺得是一個法律的問題因為這涉及到其他的所有的機關啊是對如果說當時司法院你們的預算案沒有在朱鎔泰申請預算的這個範圍裡面那或許這個部分比較不會受到影響但是現在申請了釋憲而且是整包 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10064.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10083.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
也會影響到司法院的權益啊所以坦白說我也在思考就是我們今天審查這些解凍案有意義嗎我們都解凍了解凍了之後呢最好是大法官他如果說真的這個把所有的預算案宣告違憲重審退回來重審那我告訴你我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10085.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10094.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
這個有了上一次的經驗我們這一次在審查一定會更嚴格把關每一項預算都給你指的清清楚楚的哪裡要刪要砍狀況會比現在更好嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10103.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10132.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
同樣的邏輯現在這個申請釋憲預算的申請釋憲的還不只是針對一四年總預算案那麼還有就是才化法才化法那我現在這邊當然不針對才化法那我現在要強的就是說在這個行政院他針對一四年預算提出釋憲可是呢他現在呢竟然說把我們要求行政院自己要這個統刪自己要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10134.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10134.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
進行這個經費安排的636億 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10138.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10166.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
他把這個部分轉嫁出去讓中央政府讓地方政府吸收所以就是說刪不是刪行政院跟他的部會機關而是行政院把該刪的這筆636億就是由地方縣市政府去刪他們的一般性的補助款那麼我想請問在這一次的統三的636億裡面司法院自己本身有沒有吸收部分的經費還是都沒有並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10167.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10180.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
並沒有嘛那在過去如果說我們想到這個政府立法院通過有些統刪的經費的時候司法院過去有沒有曾經有吸收過部分的這個經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10182.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10204.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
統三經費統三經費就是依照統三的比例我們還是會刪統三的比例還是會刪是是是所以就是113年以前的預算你們仍然是會部分的統三會被吸收嗎每年都不是吸收就依照你們的決議的比例去刪每年都這樣但是今年沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10204.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10228.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
不是 今年還是有依照通商的比例但是沒有去吸收那600多 剩下的那個部分是 但是在過去的話其實也有部分嘛譬如說可能剩下大概幾十億或是100億可能就是由行政院自己去吸收還是說司法院也會吸收沒有 我們通通是依照那個比例下去刪的依照通商的比例下去刪的好 那就所以今年的636億就沒有讓你們去承擔嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10231.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10257.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
承擔部分的經費我們只是依照通商的比例至於那個三減不足的部分是沒有的三減不足在過去三減不足的部分的話你們司法院也會被沒有沒有下來都沒有所以就是說過去這個三減不足的地方大概就是由行政院中央政府他們自己就去吸收了所以這一次卓榮泰他們這樣的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10258.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10285.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
也是違反過去的做法因為在過去他們沒有這麼做但是他現在因為要為了大罷免為了要反制國會的在野黨所以故意的把這636億本來自己應該要所謂自己要去吸收的這個部分然後轉嫁給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10288.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10315.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
這從剛剛司法院的口中裡面就知道所以其實在過去是沒有這樣的做法由此可見這個卓榮泰他們這樣的作為基本上是是非常糟糕很可惡的好OK那麼我想就是有關於這個新天樂另外一部分是要針對司法院的預算審查好審查那我們待會呢真的再進入到預算審查的時候我再來提出我的意見好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10316.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10325.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
好 謝謝翁曉琳委員那由於早上詢問到現在都沒有休息了我們先休息五分鐘等一下我們繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10731.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10754.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
好 我們繼續開會 接下來請鄭天才委員詢答好 主席 各位委員 有請內政部次長 還有保務部次長請黃次長 還有馬次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10762.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10790.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
委員好兩位好這個跟蹤騷擾防治法從立法院第九屆這個討論了在內政委會討論了非常多次然後到第十屆上一屆在立法院也是一樣討論了很多次這個行政部門一直不是那麼積極所以是立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10791.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10820.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
市立法院的委員非常的積極的所以在上一屆能夠完成經過了三年所以非常謝謝召委能夠安排今天針對三年三週年後制度的成效實務偵查審判困境以未來修法的展望做專題報告那看了今天的報告我們先看內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10822 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10843.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
內政部的報告裡面這個從施行之後受理到今年的4月30號各警察機關受理跟蹤騷擾案件共8488件家庭暴力的跟騷案件約38.25% |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10846.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10854.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
非家暴跟騷案件佔比約61.75%所以這個非家暴的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10856.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10881.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
竟然比例很高,61.75%當然這個家暴、家庭的關係會比較有一些因素但是既然是非家暴以外的這些比例真的是相當的高這個就是怎麼樣去因應相關的修法或是執行在這個行為太陽裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10883.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10908.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
各警察機關受理跟騷案件共有兩萬一千六百零八次跟騷行為其中以通訊騷擾百分之二十四點三最多這個也是必須要去正視的但是盯騷尾隨的那更危險了二十一點六也是相當高所以這個部分都是怎麼樣去因應去這個相關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10912.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10939.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
當然最辛苦的是警察單位警察人員他們一天到晚要受理不論是通訊的或是盯梢的都是警察第一線的同仁所以這個部分都是當然你們的人力都沒有增加啦所以這個部分是需要去檢討的我們先看保護部保護部的報告裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10940.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10944.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
111年6月到12月總收件729總增結405起訴83,不起訴236比例非常高然後112年1751件 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10962.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10973.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
這個總增結1418件起訴315不起訴831比例也很高113年也是一樣都是不起訴875比例都很高當然我們沒有去質疑這個檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10986.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11005.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
這個檢察官這些單位沒有去質疑他們而是說這個本來就是要去蒐集要去提證有它的難度跟騷嘛所以難度所以怎麼樣去在制度面法律面法律面去檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11009.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11027.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
為什麼一定要請法務部部長因為現在這案件就算要檢討修法也是你內政部的警察單位還是內政部的警察單位他們就有限就各方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11029.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11049.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
第一線是他們沒有錯 但是送出去之後就變成法務部了 對不對那法務部送出去之後檢察官起訴之後就變成司法院了所以法務部要特別特別的去協助啊協助內政部內政部 次長 是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11050.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11063.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
謝謝委員 我們一起努力好 這個你過去一起完成我們請這一體互相協助你們要用的更多啦 用力要更多 好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11067.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11080.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
謝謝鄭天才委員那我現在先處理會議時間如果我們上午的議程到12點還沒有結束的話我們中午就不休息了上午會議的時間我們就繼續進行接著我們請陳培餘委員質詢好謝謝主席有請司法院謝謝請王副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11097.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11101.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們就快速進入今天的主題首先我想要跟您討論的是有關於跟騷法第三條有關於跟騷行為的定義還有構成要件其實剛剛司要委員也已經說了我們認為這個條件其實太過嚴苛那目前你們是用條列式的方法那我認為他沒有蓋過條款那我就舉一些我們很容易在網路上找到的例子跟您討論為什麼我認為他過於嚴苛 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11125.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11137.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
在投影片的左手邊彩色這個內容這個內容我今天分享的內容都是來自於一個粉絲專頁它叫做直男行為研究所如果我們要認真研究所謂跟騷行為有什麼樣不同的樣態是不在你們的條列當中這個粉絲專頁絕對是研究的寶庫但是這個寶庫絕對是負面教材所以我才要跟你討論為什麼我認為相關條件過於嚴苛 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11152.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11167.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
左邊這一張他是行為人他一直在他自己的臉書上一直發只有被害人看得到的貼文他也沒有直接貼給某一個人他就是一直貼但是呢我們在臉書發文的時候可以設定只有誰看得到這個樣態你應該是清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11170.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11199.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那他也沒有強迫對方要看可是確實造成被害人很大的心理壓力這是第一種樣態第二種在右上方這一張行為人他不斷的傳訊息給對方不斷的單方面的傳遞訊息但他很厲害他的訊息不見得只有跟性有關他可能是各式各樣的訊息那偶爾穿插一些跟性跟性別議題有關的一樣造成對方很大的壓力但是他在你們條列當中可能就不符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11200.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11228.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
第三個右下方這一張是有一些行為人他沒有持續或者是反覆的去騷擾特定人但是他卻持續或反覆的騷擾不同的人那一樣造成這些不同的人都有很大的心理壓力因為假設我收到了像這樣一個簡訊或者是發文的訊息來找到我結果我去網路上一撈發現這個行為人他可能做出像這樣的行為所以我今天舉的只是三種樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11229.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11239.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
都其實跟你們的相關我剛說條列式的其實有很大的落差所以我們往下來看所以我想要跟副秘書長討論是這邊第一個關於可以對當事人騷擾的行為方法有很多但是因為跟騷行為構成要件很侷限而且沒有概括條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11248.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11272.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
導致於漏接很多當事人的個案這是你剛剛看到了嘛我舉的這些例子第二個目前的條文我們只處理了性跟性別有關的跟蹤騷擾但是跟性跟性別無關的騷擾對於當事人可能造成的傷害未必比較輕對嗎我剛剛舉的這些例子你大概可以想像第三個目前法規中也沒有針對反覆或者是持續對 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11273.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11279.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
不特定的人做出了跟騷就是我剛舉例這三種樣態我想知道副秘書長還是內政部這邊要上來回答你們怎麼看還是我們讓內政部回答好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11288.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11315.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
我剛舉例的這些樣態我相信你沒有研究但也請相信我沒有研究我完全是因為今天的題目到網路上去找發現非常容易找到我剛說這些樣態我想要聽聽看你的說法我也好想如果說以內政部的立場的話因為像剛剛委員所舉的樣態我們基本上從寬認定在告借數的部分我們警方都可以來處理也可以處理但是不在今天可以討論後續修法的範圍嗎我們有沒有機會回去看所謂概括條款的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11316.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11344.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
因為跟性別有關這樣的一個定義事實上它也是相對比較模糊一點但是如果說對被害人造成壓力或是剛剛我們在之前報告的時候有提到就是說他無論是有所違反對方的意願或者是影響他的生活基本上我們都可以寬列我們對告解書發放的這樣的一個行動那用這個方式來嚇阻就是所謂的加害人他在這個方面的一個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11345.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11363.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
但是我想就修法角度我認為我們應該有機會如同你剛剛講現在其他的法規範可能有相關可以適用的可以協助所謂的被害人去處理這個樣態但是如果有機會放進跟掃法我認為對於一般民眾的理解可能會更加直接當然我覺得這可以留待後續假設我們有修法機會再來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11365.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11392.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
这边先谢谢那接下来我们来看一下根杀法第十二条还有提到所谓根杀保护令的核发内容其中第三款有提到可以命相对人完成所谓的治疗性处育计划那刚刚市要委员也有问到这一题目前是让被害人垫付相关鉴定费用对不对我们来看一下那我们找到你们的统计结果这个是司法院的自己做的统计资料从根杀法实行到现在为止 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11392.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11416.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
地方法院做出所謂治療性處遇的裁定數量極其稀少1 1 1 2 2 2這個數字這麼少我想知道是因為當事人他因為就是所謂的被害人他需要先墊付費用所以他沒有提出申請還是他們提出申請之後司法院這邊法官裁定不需要做出治療性處遇計畫我不知道背後數字代表的意義是什麼這個我請廳長來回覆好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11421.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11442.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
市委員好 跟委員報告那個關於目前我們剛有提到儲育計畫是目前現行保護令執行面的問題因為在那個這一個加害人是否需要儲育計畫的裁定他可能需要鑑定是那有一些案例曾經有發生過案例沒有鑑定是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11443.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11464.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
當事人他本身有精神疾病方面的就醫資料所以法院就可以直接裁定那除此之外他必須鑑定那鑑定因為我們是准用民事訴訟法他必須當事人負擔對嘛 所以我的猜測是對的有可能是因為當事人必須要先墊付這個費用對 那個當事人墊付的部分因為這個部分在目前現行法制就沒有辦法去突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11465.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11484.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那這個之前在跟內政部和衛福部在協商的時候其實我們三個機關都有討論過這個問題好那內政部也承諾說這部分他們會來改善好我們希望有積極的進度好不好好謝謝來從跟三我們來看到性別教育這邊要有請教育部但是司法院這邊請稍等一下教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11489.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11508.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
很多非常荒謬的發言可能是來自於他對性平的觀念不熟悉所以才會出現我剛舉例這麼多荒謬的發言但最近發生關於金門縣京城國中這個命題的爭議我相信教育部是非常清楚的我不確定教育部你們現在知不知道他們調查委員會現在的結果是什麼對於這個老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11509.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11528.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
嗯 就我們了解目前他們的性評調查小組是還在調查中但是對他們的教評會已經針對他們這一次的那個命題還有審題的疏失已經對教師有進行記過的處分那命題的教師目前是先暫時挺評六個月盡待他們性評調查小組的調查結果好 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11530.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11549.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我不知道你手上有沒有看過這個老師他從109年開始這是我們跟你們調的資料我們調近3到5年這個老師他不管在哪一個學年教的書他所出的期中考也好還是期末考的考題也好我完全沒有辦法念裡面的文字太過噁心 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11550.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11571.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我要告訴你們的是從109年開始這個老師就在學校的考題裡面出現這樣的題目甚至更可怕的是這個人還得過十年優良教師如同你剛剛說的教評會目前我認為對他是輕輕放下只有停聘六個月而標榜得過十年優秀教師的老師一直出現這樣的考題我認為這絕對不是個案這絕對是累犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11576.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11591.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那所以你們可以接受目前這樣的說法嗎我當然知道你們要尊重學校教評會你們也會尊重地方政府但我要說這個事情如果不是有家長爆料出來我們沒有人會知道原來在金門的京城國中竟然有這麼一個十年優良教師他出這樣的考題 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11594.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11610.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
是跟委員報告剛所謂的暫時停聘六個月只是因為在調查期間有必要讓他先暫時停聘那至於這個老師的不適任處分會最後在性評調查的結果之後會再進行一次的一個教評會的一個審議教育部有追蹤進度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11611.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11622.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我們持續在追蹤當中那因為地方主管機關針對學校的一些性評調查的一個結果他們都應該提供相關的一些諮詢輔導還有監督的這樣的一個機制那另外我們教育部在我們的性評會的課程組目前也有針對這個案件預計提供我們的課程組做一個討論那未來會針對各個 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11633.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11659.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
學校他們在進行一些考題的一些命題的部分要怎麼樣做一個精進的改進我們會在課程處做一個進一步的討論當然從個案看通案絕對是教育部該做的事情沒有錯所以你剛才回應我也看到了你說從個案看通案但是我也要說這個個案我認為他的問題會很嚴重要拜託教育部持續的關切那其實也有很多第一線現場老師在這個事情發生之後他們紛紛在自己的社群媒體上說 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11660.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11681.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
今年暑假想必研習重點就會是性平教育但我要提的是其實教育部推性平教育已經很多年了很多有心的老師也好或者是家長啊 志工其實他們真的會主動學習確實我們看到第一線教育現場的性平教育狀況越來越好但是就是有像這樣子的駭群之馬讓很多原本很用心 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11681.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11700.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
很用力在教導學生正確性平觀念的老師的權益或者是他們的樣態沒有被看見所以我認為除了對像這樣不良的個案我們要積極進行輔導跟協助並且做出正確的裁處之外我們也要對於現場第一線非常認真工作而且貫徹性平理念在不同課程裡面老師給予獎勵好嗎是 謝謝委員的指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11703.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11725.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
好 謝謝我們接下來看一下 教育部請回 謝謝好 接下來來看一下司法院這邊關於司法院過勞環境等一下我們要討論到預算的部分我知道這個過勞的環境絕對不是一朝一夕可以改變的但是我們來看一下針對士林地方法院的部分我們今天不討論個案但是從他們的個案看見目前整個司法體系的過勞那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11729.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11750.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
許院長卸任前他的一個公開信他就呼籲希望從制度面人力面給予司法院更多的協助期待新任的院長可以持續投注更多的心力積極改善司法院同仁的工作負擔以及環境讓司法同仁有合理工作負荷的司改院警 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11750.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11770.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我想知道在新任院長上任之前目前我們是不是已經開始收集很多第一線的聲音然後也開始研擬相關的方案甚至我們有沒有機會開始跟人總去討論關於原額的部分或是跟行政院討論關於資源分配的部分關於改善這個司法環境的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11770.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11792.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
非常感謝那個委員垂詢這個問題那個確實現在在那個司法院就是各法院所面臨的那個人力非常的那個短缺所以說現在的那個法院法官呢第一線的那個法官那個工作那個過勞的情形很嚴重那那個我們的總緣合法一萬五千呢已經馬上就已經要用盡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11793.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11812.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
所以我剛才會說有沒有跟人總進一步討論就是先前的時候有和那個人總去那個接洽齁那但是那個人總他希望我們就是能夠做那個原額評鑑啊那這是一個很大的工程所以說那個司法院先前的時候就委託了那個學術機構幫我們做那個組織診斷那這個組織診斷做出來呢事實上需要調高的這個數額非常高齁所以說我們還要繼續的因為目前是有相關數字要調高很多對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11823.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11840.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那就需要好好討論相關資源或者是人力的部分那跟您分享我相信你應該有在看這個臉書專頁叫做台灣書記官工會他們的臉書專頁其實他們都有反映第一線基層員工的辛苦那我就不再贅述了那不過我想你剛剛的回應非常的正向最後結論我們就簡單的來說下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11843.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11868.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
就是新任司法院院長到任之前我認為很多過勞的環境透過你們盤點第一線的困境我覺得後續真的有機會提供給新任的司法院院長作為改善過勞環境的依據接下來就是要拜託你們持續參考第一線工作人員的建言正是這些人員流動所隱含背後的困境包含他們剛分享那個逃難指數看起來很諷刺看起來有點 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11870.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11880.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
黑色笑話的感覺但我想這確實是所有司法人員他們很需要透過中央的政府這邊給予協助的好不好我們就一起努力好謝謝謝謝謝謝主席謝謝謝謝陳培宇委員接下來請葉元之委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11896.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11902.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
主席好 麻煩請學特使 教育部請教育部教育部想來 我也不知道 看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11904.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11927.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
下一步是副市長徐副市長副市長因為我們今天在討論說根燒法在學校實施的狀況那我不知道你有沒有掌握到一個情形其實在大學裡面學生根燒學生相對來說是比較好處理因為行為人本身他可以在家裡可以要求在家裡上課應該這樣吧現場教學有一部分是現場教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11928.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11945.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
但是現在比較難處理的是學生跟著老師因為學生跟著老師有的時候也造成老師很緊張老師他的上課時間固定而且他的那個研究室大家也都知道位置所以很多老師壓力很大那我知道有一些大學有發生類似的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11946.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11966.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
他的程序一開始要先去警察局備案嘛申請告誡書嘛然後再來就是如果沒有辦法停止這樣行為的話要申請保護令這中間都需要時間那保護令下來如果行為人還是繼續犯的話呢可能就違法再透過相關的法令來處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11967.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11983.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
但問題是這個中間老師就造成很大的心理的壓力一方面還要考慮到學生的授教權老師並不是說像學生跟上學生一樣這麼容易處理那教育部在這邊有什麼提出什麼因應的方案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11984.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12011.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
是 該委員報告只要那個校園的性別平等案件只要是它是有一方是學生的那都會進入我們的性平教育法的相關規定去處理那至於跟有關跟騷的部分其實我們在112年的時候就有頒布大專校園校園跟蹤騷擾事件的處理執意那在113那個不好意思不要念你們那個辦法我先講這個具體的具體的案例就是說不是案例啦就是具體實際狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12012.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12019.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
因為他的那些程序他需要時間啊老師在這段時間受到壓力就比較難處理你們有提出什麼因應的方案出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12021.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12043.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
其實依照我們的規定的話這個部分我們會依照老師如果有這樣的一個狀況他其實都是可以跟我們的學校的學務處做一個同案剛剛都已經把他講了之後的流程都告訴你了對但是並沒有解決我剛剛講的問題這樣子啦因為可能你也沒有掌握狀況啦我這邊有三個具體建議好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12044.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12051.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
你回去研究一下第一個 可不可以給那個老師一個設立一個心理的支持系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12052.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12074.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
然後第二個是有沒有換課機制然後第三有沒有可能彈性授課大概這幾個幾個方案你回去研究一下好不好然後對因為因為可能學生對學生比較容易處理啦學生對老師因為兼顧到學生的受教權那老師其實你要叫老師去告學生老師壓力很大啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12076.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12096.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
所以這部分可能你們沒有掌握到教學現場的狀況是不是可以回去研究一下可以好不好那是不是研究一個月給我們一個這個討論的研究報告好不好就是針對剛剛我講的狀況好就是針對剛剛委員指教的三點我們再進一步研議OK好謝謝然後接下來請警察局好不好警察 警政署請警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12106.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12129.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
委員好副主長好這個我跟警政署請教一下因為最近我常常看到一些案例都是那個交通違規但是很明顯它可能是科技執法或者是有人檢舉但是很明顯的就是有不可抗力的因素但這樣被罰我們來看一下一個照片比如說像這一張這一張你看這個小轎車它後來被檢舉跨越雙黃線 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12134.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12156.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
但副長應該很清楚他跨越的原因是因為右邊有人圍停所以他才跨越結果他被處罰被處罰後來申訴申訴當然警察局就說這是不可抗力會撤銷但是他的過程當中已經老民了因為這本來在科技執法的時候他就可以判讀就可以剔除我再給你看第二張照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12157.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12176.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
右到這邊這也是一樣這也是一張因為新聞報導的圈起來那個小轎車因為本來應該要往右走啦但是他往左走他就被罰了但是右邊我們可以看到很明顯右邊有三角錐而且還有那個怪手在那邊他不可能從怪手上面壓過去嘛所以他往左邊走後來就被罰了那後來也撤銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12177.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12195.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那我是不曉得說即便是結果是撤銷可是過程第一個這些車主收到罰單一定會很不高興一定會很不高興覺得莫名其妙被罰這個每一個人都會很憤怒然後第二他去申訴需要時間 需要精力然後也要承受那種情緒上的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12196.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12214.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
所以為什麼就是警察單位在判定這個即便是有人檢舉或科技執法一定需要人工判定啊判定的時候為什麼不能事先排除呢一定要把罰單寄出去讓人家來申訴那原因到底是什麼是 這個可能是因為這個科技執法有些 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12216.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12238.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
就是剛開始的那個審判是有委外的有委外的那如果第二級的審判那單位主管副主管這個審判因為也許是案件多他沒辦法那麼詳細美暗的看那麼清楚我覺得你看一下上一張剛秀的這個應該肉眼一看就知道了吧他應該不是故意違規吧他應該是因為右邊有人違停吧不然他要怎麼過 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12240.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12255.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
這很明顯啊 因為這前後也裡面看得到也才三台車而已啊四台車那這個部分我覺得是不是可以整合人員的教育對 是不是可以再加強一下因為這真的有點老民啊所以這個就是透過加強教育的方式來解決嘛好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12257.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12270.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
好 謝謝葉言之委員 接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在好 那我們請壓軸最帥的羅志強委員我沒理他 討論給你們一個檔案拍過你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12278.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12289.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
謝謝主席的誇獎來有請那個司法院王副秘書長還有我們法務部的黃次長請王副秘書長還有我們黃次長委員早安好 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12291.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12307.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
想請教一下我們的副秘書長 最高法院刑事大法庭那今年5月14號做了113年度台上大致第4096號的裁定你知道這個裁定的大致內容嗎是 是 知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12308.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12325.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
他是說 詐欺犯罪危害防治條例第47條的前段規定詐欺犯罪在偵查及歷次審判中均自白如有犯罪所得自動繳交其犯罪所得者 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12326.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12355.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
減輕其刑 那其所稱的犯罪所得是指行為人因犯罪的實際取得的個人所得而言倘行為人並未實際取得個人所得僅需偵查及議次審判中均自白及合於該條前段減輕其刑規定之要件我不知道副秘書長跟我們的次長怎麼看待這一次的大法庭 刑事大法庭的裁定呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12357.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12377.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
跟委員報告就是那個大法庭呢他所做的那個裁定這也是屬於最高法院他們有關於審判職權行使的那個一部分那所以說他們做的這個部分的那個裁定內容呢他們在那個理由中有說明他們所依據的那個法例那這個部分我們司法行政是尊重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12377.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12405.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
好 我要跟那個當然你要尊重這個大法庭的裁定可是我也要請教一下次長甚至包括我們警政署的那個機關 要不要上來一下是委員好 這個剛才王委員也有詮詢那我們也表達就是說事實上在最高法院大法庭的延遲辯論的過程中本部所屬最高警察署代表出席的時候已經堅定的表達 因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12406.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12434.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例第47條的立法理由很明確的表明他的立法目的是為了要填補被害人所受的損害所以我們並不認同後來大法庭最後這個裁定的見解但是因為這個依照制度這個大法庭的裁定由他解釋上的拘束力所以我們也會盡速的來研議相關的修法讓法條的文字更加的明確讓這個所謂的犯罪所得定義能夠依照立法目的來認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12436.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12453.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
謝謝次長 我們現在請副秘書長我要為甚麼請次長跟警政署上來你現在台灣真的詐欺已經成為國恥我們包括說檢查系統 包括我們的警政系統 警察單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12454.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12470.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
很努力的在去在前線打詐把詐騙犯把他繩之以法可是當繩之以法交到司法系統去來去判決的時候如果這邊一直把洞打開 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12471.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12484.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
你就會造成前端的很多的我們打詐的前線同仁他們作業上非常大的困擾那我先講這個裁定其實在我看來是非常嚴重的為什麼呢我們先講實際現在判決狀況檢刑好像變成是某種贖罪券的這個狀況他沒有辦法達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12492.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12518.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我們剛剛次長講的這個填補受害者的所謂損失的情況之下他還是可以獲得減刑那說真的我不知道當時立這個法本來的立法目的就是希望協助受害者填補他的損失來作為所謂減刑的一個條件結果他不需要受害者的那個損失受到填補一樣可以獲得減刑的時候那就會造成說今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12519.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12534.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
另外一種程度是鼓勵詐欺犯罪那我們舉個例子詐欺犯跟車手的刑責現在目前多半是落在一年到一年兩個月之間很多可以獲得緩刑或一顆罰金法務部統計的資料顯示2017年到2021年全國總共起訴11萬的詐欺犯看起來數字是非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12546.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12574.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
但是有80.7% 8.9萬人他是涉及電信詐欺的案件43%的被告被判6年以下的有期徒刑或是拘役那如果是單純提供人頭賬戶被定罪輕判的比例大概是98%那所以因此在這種已經先天上事實上就已經是坦白講在我們這邊詐欺要付出的代價是蠻輕的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12576.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12603.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那還能夠透過所謂的我們大法庭解釋放寬這種所謂的認知減刑的這樣一個規定的話那我說真的難怪有人說台灣是詐騙天堂那麼另外剛剛其實市長也已經講到了我們詐欺犯罪危害防治條例47條的前段的立法目的是非常明確的它其實有一個核心重心就是要填補被害人的損害 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12605.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12612.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
副部長是不是市長是嘛 沒錯嘛可是今天大法庭的解釋就 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12613.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12641.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
裁定就推翻了這個原則啊他變成是說今天所稱的犯罪所得只是限於行為人實際取得的報酬那如果沒有取得報酬他只要自白就可以獲得減刑那問題來了請問這種情況之下犯罪人的損害被補償了嗎被填補了嗎請問副秘書長如果這兩個條件照我們刑事大法庭的裁定的話有被補償嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12644.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12662.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
從被害人這個角度來看的話是沒有全部被獲得補償幾乎沒有啦依照過去的例子我請次長來回答這個做下去能夠填補多少百分之五 百分之一還是百分之零點二啊有些人跟我講我犯罪所得兩千啊他被詐騙了一千萬我說我犯罪所得兩千啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12662.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12689.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
是 所以我們不認同這樣子的認定因為我們在這邊所謂的犯罪所得我們是傾向於採取假設是共犯的話是要共同承擔不是只有他個人的部分而且這個部分也相當難以查證所以我們是不同意這樣的見解其實剛剛次長講一個重點很難查證他今天就跟人講我犯罪所得只有兩千那其實你怎麼去釐清他犯罪所得到底多少如果他錢藏得夠好 洗得夠好的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12689.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12714.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
所以因此你也看到基層法院也有很多法官有表示高度疑慮他們認為這個減刑條件實在太容易達成了容易達成到你乾脆直接在本刑當中去檢他就好不用用這種方式來檢那另外就實際上很多的詐欺共犯他們幾乎都會認罪但真正犯罪所得他常常就低報啊他也不會老實跟你講犯罪所得多少甚至直接跟你講我就是沒拿到錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12716.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12720.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
看你們檢方跟警方的本事啊我說我沒拿到錢 你要證明我拿到錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12722.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12747.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那跟今天立法的目的就是要填補被害人的損害我覺得相去十萬八千里啦所以我也要這樣講說今天這個說真的這個裁定我覺得是有點不食人間煙火啦那最後還有犯罪人你看到的是有時候被詐騙上百萬甚至上千萬那法院只要說今天看到片面他跟你否認他拿到犯罪所得或是他拿到犯罪所得非常低的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12748.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12757.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
那你要不要去看看就因此減刑要不要看那些被騙了幾百萬上千萬的受害者你覺得他的心情會是什麼他怎麼看待說今天這樣就可以減刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12758.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12785.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
所以因此我要說是說今天這一個其實已經變成我們今天反詐的一個破口反詐的破口那我也希望剛剛次長有提到拜託我們司法院還有我們的法務部能夠好好看怎麼把這破口補起來否則我覺得真的是很對不起今天很多被詐騙的民眾他們真的被詐騙以後受的損害如此龐大甚至造成很大身心的陰影甚至造成家庭的很大的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12786.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12816.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
不合乃至於甚至未來生活上產生很大的困難我自己在選區跑就是遇到很多民眾被詐騙基本上錢都追不回來真的基本上錢都追不回來很難追回來結果還看到這樣子還可以減刑有時候甚至他可能也不期待錢被追回來但也看到說我今天因為我沒拿到錢被減刑說沒拿到錢被減刑我坦白講真是情何以堪啦所以拜託這個漏洞在法律上怎麼去做把它補起來好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12816.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12842.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
好 是 我們會照我們剛剛所說的話會儘速啟動這個修繁的文字發布起來好 謝謝 以上好 謝謝好 謝謝羅志強委員那我們所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢了 詢答結束那委員質詢的時候要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關儘速送交個別委員跟本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12843.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12869.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那委員張雅玲、邱振鈞、林倩琦、徐欣盈所提書面質詢均列入記錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面來答覆現在進行我們議程所列的司法院主管的預算的解凍案處理前我們請議事人員一併宣讀報告事項及討論事項的預算解凍案請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12871.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12897.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
報告事項第三案及第四案分別為三司法院函為一百一十四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第四款第一項決議二預算凍結書面報告請查照案及四減送稅出第四款第一項決議五預算凍結書面報告請查照案討論事項第一案至第八案分別為一司法院函為一百一十四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12899.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12916.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
第四款第一項決議一預算凍結書面報告請查照案二檢送稅出第四款第一項決議三預算凍結書面報告請查照案三檢送稅出第四款第一項決議四預算凍結書面報告請查照案四檢送稅出 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12917.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12938.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
第四款第一項新增決議137預算凍結專案報告請查照案5.減送稅出第四款第一項新增決議148預算凍結專案報告請查照案6.減送稅出第四款第一項新增決議175預算凍結專案報告請查照案7.減送稅出第四款第一項新增決議183預算凍結專案報告請查照案8.減送稅出第四款第十項決議1及新 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12947.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12951.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
及新增決議193預算凍結專案報告請查照案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12953.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12978.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
好 我們議程所列司法院主管的預算解凍案都已宣讀完畢了現在進行處理那我們依例照議程所列的順序我們先處理報告事項議程報告事項第三跟第四案有關司法院主管114年度預算解凍書面報告案這個預算解凍書面報告案該案都已經列入議程提出書面報告並經宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12980.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12987.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我們就做如下的決定 就都准予被查提報院會如果沒有其他意見的話 我們就通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12992.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13008.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
另外報告事項我們報告事項處理完畢我們繼續進行討論事項有關司法院主管114年度的預算解凍案部分討論事項第一到第八案 業經報告及詢答完畢並與宣讀 請問各位有異來 翁 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13016.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13031.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
來 我們現在就是討論四項第一到第八案都已經報告跟審討完畢了那並且已經宣讀有 哪一案好來 第七案請翁小玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13037.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13062.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
第七案主要是針對當時凍結法服基金會的一千萬喔那麼因為我有看了法服的報告那這裡面有些問題我還是想請這個法服之後可能可以再進行檢討的第一個首先我想了解就是法服這裡說你們的本金到現在都還沒有到位嗎一百億所以實際上是有多少錢三十八億到目前為止也只有三十八億 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13067.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13093.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
司法院因為我們大辦原先的本意是希望我們能夠對外募款然後能夠讓這個基金到位但是呢我們司法院還是得靠司法院來部分的捐助但是司法院現在面臨就是說因為我們法府的業務一直擴大然後現在的這個每年要正常的運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13093.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13120.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
就一定要達到十幾億那麼十幾億呢就算一百億的基金交給我們說讓我們自己去生知喜然後用這些錢產生的利息啦或者收益呢去運作還是沒辦法做到現在知喜那麼低那我們現在石華營只能夠選擇說那我先讓你們正常運作那基金呢如果說我要給你們補足的話那會佔我們政府的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13123.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13123.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
過於龐大 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13124.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13153.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那所以這個部分他只能擇其一的說先讓我們正常運作那基金呢這個部分還是司法院呢他之前的這個捐助之下我們現在目前只達到38億多但是有很多部分是我們努力要去募款但是事實上法輔要募款也有很多的限制譬如說法輔他是處理訴訟的為人民服務的但是你如果像企業大企業我們平時說 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13153.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13174.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
今天去跟一些台積電 或者是鴻海 我們去要求募款那我們要輔助的對象如果要是都是勞工階級那這些勞工就是很多的弱勢生活弱勢 經濟弱勢那到時候 這個公司有事情的時候那變成他是我們主要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13175.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13188.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
捐助人金主那我們要怎麼去面對這樣的一個一個這樣的處理訴訟的問題所以我家其實在這個募款方面我們也沒有專人募款因為募款還是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13190.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13214.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
比較專業的那我們在職的所有的工作人員你說他四處去募款本身也是很困難那只能說是靠著民間我們的宣導各個慈善團體政府機關陸陸續續的給我們捐助一些那有一些小額募款所以他的募款我們已經盡可能每個年都達標了但是還是沒有辦法有大量的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13215.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13236.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
如果委員能夠謝謝你關心到這個問題那也希望說我們的基金能夠到位但是真的我們的募款能力是有所不足的我們現在雖然很努力的也只能每年持續的增長但是還是沒有辦法做到把這個拉到100億 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13239.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13266.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
好 謝謝董事長的說明因為我本期也是有感受到如果說法服在根本本期沒有到位的情況之下然後你們每年有這麼多的支出當然主要就還是靠司法院的捐助那麼我希望司法院也能夠幫法服一個忙就是看看對外企業或是有沒有什麼樣團體可以去募到比較充裕的款不然到現在連一半都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13268.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13294.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
對 這個司法院如果說還有保護部未來都能夠幫忙的話對外企業能夠募到足夠的款那至少可以減少就是國家公帑的這個支出那當然另外一個部分就是在現在本金沒有到位之前然後法服的每年的經費不斷的成長我認為也應該要去檢討有關於法服的法規啦就是有一些部分是不是不需要真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13294.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13317.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
給予法律輔助的他本身他就有經濟能力那麼這個部分我覺得其實可以提出來做檢討那甚至在整個刑事辯護人訴訟中心因為你們現在還要再成立一個專職律師刑事辯護中心那麼這個在目前經費不足的情況之下有沒有需要這麼急的去成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13318.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13338.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我希望董事長執行長這邊都可以再去思考這個問題因為你們現在已經也有公職的法輔本身有律師然後又公設辯護人其實對於這個相關的行事案件的法律輔助的部分我看起來並不是說那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13340.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13355.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那麼有 並不是有不足的地方可能有多種的 我想跟委員再解釋一下因為現在這個對於有資歷的刑事被告尤其是要強制辯護的重罪人 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13356.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13369.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我們法府本來是不應該接收遮封面的對象的但是現在就是我們法院的公設辯護人他本來原則上我們就是應該優先給法院的公設辯護人還有義務辯護律師去辯護我們也希望這樣但是法院現在公設辯護人呢已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13376.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13386.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
逐漸消失,現在都用約聘的律師他們能夠承受的案件量非常有限義務辯護律師也是編列在各法院的經會裡面也非常少每年能夠通過這個義辯的經會 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13395.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13414.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
大概只能夠接幾個案子,錢就用完了這個部分他們是不得不借重法乎我們現在也是說盡可能司法院也有函令給各法院說希望每個法院盡可能把這些案子派公辯或異辯 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13417.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13445.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
現實的情形就是公辯吃不下這些案子因為尤其是有些重案子是國民法官的那國民法官審的這些案子耗費非常多的經歷跟時間那這個公辯一個區區一個法院都一個公辯兩個公辯做不了那你說其他給異辯的律師那異辯的律師真的很少就是幾位能夠做而已所以我也希望說有一天法庫不要去辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13447.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13471.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
這個強制辯護有資歷的被告但是現在因為國民法官的案子需要大律師民間的律師非常視如未土就不想接涉這方面的個案那也只有靠著法庫的一些專職律師才有辦法去接因為他花在法庭上的時間太多了一般的律師根本不願意接受的 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13472.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13490.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
了解了好謝謝那我們之後可能還要再通盤介紹相關的法治謝謝王小林委員其他委員在場委員有沒有其他的意見如果沒有的話我們討論事項第一到第八案我們就做以下的決議都准予動之提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13493.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13505.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
來 上午的會議我們就進行到此了下午我們一點開會繼續進行下午的議程處理國安會預算的解凍案 先來休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13515.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13516.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
在水高維縣這幾個同學 |