| IVOD_ID |
167052 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167052 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
26 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-12T11:38:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-12T11:48:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ab52049cf0a1ce024f449a647f2fcc7b4bfe832d32782da7fca8e6801c49bdd7e067b1efe2647ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:38:15 - 11:48:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍如何強化戰場持續戰力，對於戰時高消耗情境下，彈藥籌獲之應變作為與規劃」，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
6.161 |
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好 顧部長 顧部長本席過去到現在一直認為說保密相對重要國家其實有所謂的這個國家檔案機密法 保密法所以說我想請教一下像今天我們又送進來的這個報告其實每一次給立法院外交國防委員會我想已經在第11屆的立法院每一次都有這樣的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
52.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那現在突然說傳出來現在這個報告上面又寫一個五本憲署公開資訊我想請教一下這跟我們現在的這個國家機密保密法有什麼樣的一個出路有什麼樣的差別國家機密保護法他也有一個要 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
79.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
合定機密的一個精神嗎是啊那我們我們過去到現在不都這樣做嗎如果說公文書裡面有機密有分普通件機密件這個高機密件跟絕對機密件嗎那我想先請教因為其實這就是國人現在看到就是說這一段時間尤其這兩個禮拜讓大家覺得說非常訝異或說覺得是說好像多此一舉就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
95.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
給外交國防委員會的資料我想這邊也有媒體也有相關的委員同仁等等的那你這些資料不是都屬於公開資訊嗎多增加這一句話的意思是什麼對核定這份資料的人來講他要確定這一份都是公開資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
123.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那過去沒有嗎過去沒有核定我們現在要求就是說希望他們在核定的時候因為過去如果沒有辦法能夠逐頁或者逐段的來核定的時候就會導致兩種情況一個就是說本來應該要列密的沒有列密那或者是本來不應該列密的把它列明過去有發生過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
124.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
139.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我想請教一下 因為外交國防委員會跟其他委員會比較不一樣是有些時候可能會開秘密會議也因此在開秘密會議的時候 即便是我們委員也要簽到也要屬於是說你要參加秘密會議還是要是公開質詢那秘密會議的時候會把記者媒體朋友被請出去那我現在請教一下如果在開機密專報的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
144.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那這些機密的文件確實會有包含它會標示機密或標示無那麼委員在即使就拿到這個機密專報切決要保密的情況之下如果那一段是屬於無的話委員就會很清楚理解那一段是可以公開的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
是 那我現在就說90%的情況不是整份文件都變成密現在在討論的是我現在跟你在討論那今天的資料上禮拜記者會已經讓大家覺得嘩然就說連國防部的記者會都要每一句每一句連報告完畢都要有一個無那結果你那個時候我想 顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
182.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
193.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我尊重我們國軍弟兄大家的一個專業但是也不要讓變成是說長官一句話國軍弟兄大家叫苦連天或說大家變成是要做很多的紙上作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
216.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
來消耗大家的行政量能所以本席想要請教的是你現在又再改變了說不用每一段都後面加5但我想請教的是說像今天這個報告本來它就是一個公開的回覆的資訊的一個報告上面又加一個5本件屬公開資訊那過去有公開資訊裡面放密件嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
222.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
234.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
如果一份文件他有一些部分是並不是屬於密的那他過去的話他就會可能是一份上百頁報告的內容他其中有一個段落涉及機密結果整份報告都列為密 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
235.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
245.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以我們現在才會有一個不管是從美軍的做法或相關友盟國家的做法我們來一個做精準和密我再講一下因為現在在數位化的這個時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
251.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
280.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們對於相關的這些文書的這些檔案我們到時候都要有一個儲存然後我們有一個傳遞我們一個運用那麼我們如果做這樣的機密核試大家才會讓人家理解說我們在不同的這個機密的網域裡面他可以有儲存相關的哪些資料然後哪一些被核密的人員他可以接觸到哪一些的密機密即機密跟絕對機密都是不一樣的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
280.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
297.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以這個精準和密的做法 精準和密的做法是美方行之有年我們要跟他做共同的對接這是一定要做的一個精準的動作重點 中華民國我們自己就有我們自己的機密保護嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
298.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
308.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你的法源依據是不是也是依照中華民國的機密保護跟委員報告根據國軍的保密教則本來就規定要逐段逐頁要審任機密我們只是沒有去落實所以過去都沒有落實部長講一個大實話過去都沒有落實我們現在是要求要這樣的落實那所以新頒的這些相關的規定這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
324.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
348.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以今天本席要跟你探討就是兩個部分過去部長講一個大實話過去都沒有落實那該檢討該究責但現在不要矯枉過正啊我想請教一下給外交國防委員會所有媒體朋友大家都可以上網甚至一般的民眾上立法院議事網站你也可以有相關的資料可以看到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
349.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
373.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那我想請教像這樣子在上面再多一個5本件屬公開資訊這個意義在哪邊就是告訴這個是一個公開資訊而且過去的就沒有寫5就不是公開資訊核定的人就會在每一段上面他都足頁都能夠認知到這是一個公開資訊我想請教外交國防的資料過來的時候有沒有被核定過我們可以來保持一個開放討論的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
380.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
403.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
給外交國防委員會資料是給誰核定 最高成績給到誰核定過去到現在外交國防委員會的資料最高成績到誰核定 市長還是部長 甲章乙章我想如果到國防部來進行報告 最後當然都會到我這邊來大家進行討論所以過去到現在也都是你核定啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
403.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
410.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
不是說核定的概念的權限的問題是說要進到這個外交官委員會來你剛剛才講是說要給核定人確認然後是看這到底是機密還是無機密現在又講說不是權限的問題你可以說好那如果要這樣講的話關於到外交官委員會的報告都是會經過我這邊是所以你過去沒有落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
430.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
450.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們過去要怎麼樣進行標示這件事情並不清楚副長本席很語重心長因為我希望是我們國軍做實事如果說真如同說現在民進黨政府想要兵兇戰為不要讓我們國軍弟兄大家變成是都在做紙上工夫然後大家都在做行政作業流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
451.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
471.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
上個禮拜已經每一段落後面一個五已經讓大家覺得是一笑大方但現在你要搞另外一個部分其實國家機密檔案法本來也就有相關的規定如果說是普通件上面在一開始公文傳說的時候就會寫普通件如果說有機密件就會寫說機密幾年解密它有相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
473.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
491.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
但國防部現在變成是自己在搞另外一個版本或是另外一個系統你說要跟美方還是跟我們國家接軌如果說是跟國家接軌的話那其他部會要不要比賽辦理那如果說是跟美方接軌的話很抱歉我們中華民國有我們自己的法令規定也不是美國人說什麼我們都要聽什麼我覺得這兩個要分得非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
496.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
524.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
在軍事上面我們可以跟美國有比較多的一個合作但是對我們自己的一個保密的部分我覺得我們自己要依照我們自己相關的法令中華民國法令本來就有規定不是嗎國防部就是在推動這樣子的一個精準的資料治理啊所以你們過去就沒有精準嗎然後現在又有點是矯枉過正嘛所以說才會變成是說之後每一個報告上面都要有一個5然後本件署公開資訊嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
526.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
545.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這就矯枉過正然後上禮拜我還是強調上禮拜我們委員在跟你質詢的時候其實大家也都是把民眾看到的部分甚至你說記者會公開的資訊我們都請教記者會都已經是國防部邀請來記者朋友來報導了你們會把機密秀出來給記者看嗎那結果還要這邊標示這種部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
551.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
558.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那今天給我們所有外交國防委員會的委員就已經是公開的資訊了還要再多編列 多標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
562.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
580.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們做一點實事啦我們是在做實事就是在做實事所以我才跟你再一次的提醒這件事是實事不要再只上作業讓官兵弟兄造成行政上的一個浪費會整個會帶動我們的一個數位化資料治理的一個進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
581.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
606.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
跟委員報告這是事實部長您之後慢慢的我想我們現在在磨合期還會有很多可以討論的空間我們會徵詢各界的意見然後來隨時檢討改進但是這是一件應該要做的一個基本功所以本席就是聽你這句話之後才會覺得說您上禮拜推動的真的是太過倉促沒有討論就直接推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
616.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好好的做事希望我們國軍弟兄加油好不好我們是討論了有相當長的時間但是當然還是有一些值得檢討的地方啦謝謝部長 |