| IVOD_ID |
16705 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16705 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-35-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-26T08:31:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-26T11:27:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:55:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2dd64e5377f4e25464b6918ac9a8133975a12e9ca99aa835c0e7fc8f90e3a4906c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國防部主管預算凍結案等120案。（詳如附件1,2）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:01 - 11:27:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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報告委員會初期委員7人已足法定人數好我們現在開始開會請議事委員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1873.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1895.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期外交及國防委員會第十六次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年五月二十一日星期三上午九十至十一時十九分地點黃樓三零一會議室出席委員盧美琳等十人列席委員鍾嘉斌等七人請假委員黃仁列席人員國家安全局局長蔡明彥及所屬人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1896.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1916.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
行政院主席總署、公務預算處專門委員廖玉琳、主席黃昭吉委員人、瓜湖馬委員文君代理報告四、想於宣讀上市會議議事錄決定確定二、處理院會交付一百一十四年度中央政府總預算決議、國家安全局預算提出書面報告後,使得動之等八案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1917.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1935.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
決定以上八案報告完略均同意動資並提報院會國家安全局局長蔡敏彥報告委員盧敏玲等10人質詢均由國家安全局局長蔡敏彥即席答覆決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢討結束二委員陳永康黃人所提書面質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1935.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1962.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
列入記錄刊登公報三委員書面及口頭質詢為其答覆或要求提供資資訊請國家安全局於兩週內書面答覆本會全體委員並赴資本會委員令指定期限者從其鎖定討論事項處理院會交付一百一十四年度中央政府總預算決議國家安全局預算解凍案凍結案決議以上十六案處理完均均同意動之並提報院會圈圖完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1964.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1986.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有無遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處好 那議事錄確定那我們現在介紹在場委員 陳永康委員林楚瑩委員好 那我們介紹列席官員部長 吳立雄先生副參謀總長 執行官 黃志偉 上將常務市長 楊基榮 中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1993.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2016.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
全民防衛動員署署長李定忠中將總督察市總督察長張元勛中將參事石文榮中將政務辦公室主任孫立芳中將政治作戰局局長陳玉玲中將軍備局局長林文祥中將主計局局長謝啟賢中將軍醫局局長蔡建松中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2022.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2048.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
戰略規劃司司長黃文啟中將資源規劃司司長藍靜婷女士法律事務司副司長陳子怡先生整合評估司司長苗慧芬女士國防採購司主任趙雅萍中將人事參謀次長是次長劉沛志中將情報參謀次長是次長謝日生中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2049.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2060.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
作戰機計劃參謀次長是次長連志偉中將後勤參謀次長是次長李鳳祥中將同勤電子資訊參謀次長是次長鄧恩蓮中將訓練參謀次長是次長郭俊德中將陸軍司令部參謀長陳建義中將海軍司令部參謀長邱俊榮中將空軍司令部參謀長李慶然中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2080.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2107.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
後備指揮部參謀長薛淵泉少將憲兵指揮部參謀長呂正芳少將陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長梁永坤少將自動電軍指揮部參謀長周文祥少將軍事情報局執行長鄧敦仁少將電訓發展室執行長林正偉少校國防大學教育長李承莊少將 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2109.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2116.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
國家中山科學研究院副院長羅益中先生行政院主紀總署專門委員張正輝先生謝謝好那我們請議事人員宣讀報告及討論事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2121.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2145.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
報告事項二處理院會交付一百一十四年度中央政府總預算決議國防部主管預算提出書面報告後使得動資等七十一案第一案海軍司令部第一幕向下業務費預算凍結二十七萬元案第二案本部第二幕向下對國內團體資捐助預算凍結一百萬元案第三案本部第二幕向下督查作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2146.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2162.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
預算凍結100萬元案第四案本部第二幕向下資訊服務費預算凍結50萬元案第五案陸軍司令部第五幕向下國軍重要防護營區智慧型監控系統建設案第二階段預算凍結200萬元案第六案陸軍司令部第五幕向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2163.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2177.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
新型步槍預算凍結兩百萬元案 第七案陸軍司令部第四幕向下醫務費預算凍結兩百萬元案 第八案陸軍司令部第五幕向下國軍重要防護營區智慧型警監系統建設案第二階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2178.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2196.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
預算凍結五百萬元案 第九案入軍司令部 第五目向下 國軍重要防護營區智慧型警監系統監製案 第二階段預算凍結五百萬元案 第十案入軍司令部 第五目向下 高效能反專甲飛彈預算凍結兩百萬元案第十一案入軍司令部 第五目向下 高效能反專甲飛彈預算凍結五百萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2198.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2207.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第十二案 陸軍司令部 第五目向下 搬用機槍預算凍結100萬元案第十三案 陸軍司令部 第五目向下 搬用機槍預算凍結100萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2210.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2229.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第十四案陸軍司令部第五幕向下戰術型進程無人飛行載具二階段預算凍結五百萬元案第十五案陸軍司令部第五幕向下新型步槍預算凍結一百萬元案第十六案陸軍司令部第八幕向下裝訓部坑子口訓練場整建工程案預算凍結五百萬元案第十七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2230.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2254.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
海軍司令部第五目向下艦載型艦增無人機預算凍結300萬元案第十八案海軍司令部第五目向下新型布拉克EV方陣快報預算凍結300萬元案第十九案海軍司令部第五目向下新式港型拖船購置預算凍結36萬3000元案第20案海軍司令部第八目 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2256.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2270.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第8目向下 左營二港口擴建工程預算凍結200萬元案第21案 空軍司令部第4目向下 軍事單位裝備零附件購置及保修預算凍結1000萬元案第22案 空軍司令部第4目向下 軍事單位裝備零附件購置及保修預算凍結1000萬元案第23案 空軍司令部第5目向下 F16VVB70型 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2282.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2309.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
行击敌我辨识器寻答密码机预算冻结10%案第24案 自动电军指挥部第4幕向下设施及机械设备养护费预算冻结500万元案第25案 政治作战局第1幕向下 业务费预算冻结200万元案第26案 政治作战局第1幕向下 尾班费预算冻结50万元案第27案 政治作战局第1幕向下一班事务费预算冻结50万元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2309.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2316.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第28案軍備局第1目軍事行政預算凍結50萬元案第29案軍備局第8目向下軍品生產修護建設及其他設備預算凍結100萬元案第30案軍醫局第1目向下委搬費預算凍結100萬元案第31案軍醫局第4目向下房屋建築養護費預算凍結500萬元案第32案政治作戰局第1目向下業務費預算凍結50萬元案第33案 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2338.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2347.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
空軍司令部資訊服務費預算凍結600萬元案第34案本部第二幕向下一般事務費預算凍結30萬元案第35案本部第二幕向下獎補助費預算凍結100萬元案第36案本部第二幕向下獎補助費預算凍結100萬元案第37案本部第二幕向下獎補助費對國內團體支捐助預算凍結100萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2363.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2382.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第38案 陸軍司令部 第一幕向下 義務費預算凍結300萬元案第39案 陸軍司令部 第一幕向下 物品預算凍結20萬元案第40案 陸軍司令部 第一幕向下 一般事務費預算凍結50萬元案第41案 陸軍司令部 第四幕向下 軍事裝備之設施預算凍結300萬元案第42案 陸軍司令部 第四幕向下 軍事裝備設施養護費預算凍結100萬元案第43案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2392.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2418.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
陸軍司令部第五目向下國軍重要防護營區智慧型緊接系統建置案第二階段預算凍結五百萬元案第四十四案陸軍司令部第五目向下戰術型進程無人飛行載具二階段預算凍結五百萬元案第四十五案陸軍司令部第五目向下戰術型進程無人飛行載具二階段預算凍結五百萬元案第四十六案陸軍司令部第五目向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2419.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2442.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
戰術型進程五無人飛行載具二階段預算凍結五百萬元案第四十七案陸軍司令部第八目向下載人公務車輛籌補預算凍結六百五十萬元案第四十八案海軍司令部第五目向下通訊費預算凍結五十萬元案第四十九案海軍司令部第四目向下房屋建築養物費預算凍結五百萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2443.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2459.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第五十案 海軍司令部第四幕向下軍事裝備設施養護費預算凍結300萬元案第五十一案 空軍司令部第五幕向下新式高級教訓機預算凍結1000萬元案第五十二案 空軍司令部第五幕向下I2性能體升級採購I3預算凍結5000萬元案第五十三案 空軍司令部第五幕向下F16AV型 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2469.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2486.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
戰機性能提升預算凍結兩百萬元案第五十四案先兵指揮部第五幕向下國軍新型手槍第二階段預算凍結十萬元案第五十五案先兵指揮部第五幕向下新型步槍預算凍結一百萬元案第五十六案政治作戰局第一幕向下一班術費預算凍結一百萬元案第五十七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2487.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2499.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主計局第一幕向下業務費預算凍結100萬元案第58案全民防衛動員署第一幕向下人事行政預算凍結50萬元案第59案全民防衛動員署第一幕向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2500.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2507.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
人事行政預算凍結50萬元案第60案全民防衛動員署第三幕向下資訊軟硬體設備費預算凍結200萬元案第61案全民防衛動員署第三幕向下動員整備預算凍結200萬元案第62案全民防衛動員署第三幕向下動員整備預算凍結100萬元案第63案國防大學第三幕向下一般事務費預算凍結500萬元案第64案車門本部第一幕向下業務費預算凍結50萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2528.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2536.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第65案 參謀本部第一目向下人事行政預算凍結50萬元案第66案 參謀本部第一目向下一般事務費預算凍結50萬元案第67案 參謀本部第三目向下一般事務費預算凍結50萬元案第68案 參謀本部第四目向下一般事務費預算凍結100萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2546.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2554.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第69案 參謀本部第4目向下通訊電子與資訊管理預算凍結1000萬元案第70案 參謀本部第4目向下軍事裝備設施養物費預算凍結100萬元案第71案 軍事情報局第4目向下資訊服務費預算凍結200萬元案 討論事項處理院會交付 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2567.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2592.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
114年度中央政府總預算決議國防部主管預算凍結案依參謀本部第四幕向下軍事單位裝備臨附建構置及保修預算凍結10%專案報告案二軍備局第七幕第一節向下國軍營設及設施改建基金預算凍結30%專案報告案三國防部主管預算凍結案等47案想付表第三案至第49案第三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2594.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2615.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
本部業務費預算凍結30%案第四案陸軍司令部第五幕向下仁溪市短程防空飛彈預算凍結1000萬元案第五案本部第一幕向下資訊軟硬體設備費預算凍結20%案第六案陸軍司令部第五幕向下業務費預算凍結1000萬元案第七案陸軍司令部第五幕向下仁溪市短程防空飛彈預算凍結5000萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2618.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2637.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第八案 陸軍司令部 第五幕向下國軍重要防護營區智慧型警監系統建設案 第二階段預算凍結 四千萬元案第九案 陸軍司令部 第五幕向下國軍重要防護營區智慧型警監系統建設案 第二階段預算凍結 四千萬元案第十案 陸軍司令部 第五幕向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2638.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2664.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
新型战车预算冻结五千万元案第十一案陆军司令部第五幕向下远程精准火力打击系统预算冻结八千万元案第十二案海军司令部第五幕向下创龙级潜舰战斗系统提升案预算冻结五千万元案第十三案海军司令部第五幕向下新一代轻型巡防舰第二阶段原型舰筹建预算冻结一千亿一亿元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2665.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2687.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
第十四案 海軍司令部 第五幕向下 康電極艦戰鬥系統性能提升預算凍結7000萬元案第十五案 海軍司令部 第五幕向下 魚叉飛彈海岸防衛系統預算凍結2000萬元案第十六案 海軍司令部 第五幕向下 快速布雷艇後續停預算凍結1億元案第十七案 海軍司令部 第五幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2688.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2708.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
監偵型無人機預算凍結五千萬元案第十八案海軍司令部第五幕向下海洋監偵能量整體提升案預算凍結一億元案第十九案海軍司令部第八幕向下魚叉飛彈防岸海岸防衛系統預算凍結五千萬元案第二十案空軍司令部第四幕向下車輛及辦公器具養護費預算凍結六千萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2713.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2733.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第21案 空軍司令部第5目向下 TPSEPS-117 美達性能提升案預算凍結2000萬元案第22案 空軍司令部第8目向下台東基地設施興建工程預算凍結1億元案第23案 空軍司令部第8目向下一般設施整建工程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2734.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2744.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
跑滑道戰備工程預算凍結1億元案第24案 空軍司令部第8目向下載人公務車輛籌補預算凍結10%案第25案 憲兵指揮部第2目向下業務費預算凍結12萬元案第26案 軍醫局國軍前進外科小組裝備整備預算凍結1000萬元案第27案 軍醫局國軍醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2759.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2766.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
國軍醫院軍政醫學網路設備系統提升案預算凍結1000萬元案第28案國防大學第4幕向下設施及機械設備養護費預算凍結200萬元案第29案軍醫局第8幕向下國軍前進外科小組裝備整備預算凍結1000萬元案第30案陸軍司令部第4幕向下軍事裝備及設施預算凍結500萬元案第31案 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2785.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2799.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
陸軍司令部第八目向下軍事裝備及設施預算凍結一千萬元案第三十二案陸軍司令部第四目向下物品預算凍結一千萬元案第三十三案陸軍司令部第五目向下仁西市短程防空飛彈預算凍結一億三千萬元案第三十四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2802.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2830.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
陸軍司令部第五目向下高效能仿專甲飛彈預算凍結六千萬元案第三十五案陸軍司令部第六目向下一般數費預算凍結五百萬元案第三十六案陸軍司令部第八目向下南湖彈庫興建工程預算凍結五百萬元案第三十七案空軍司令部第五目向下I2性能提升及採購I3預算凍結四億五千萬元案第三十八案空軍司令部第五目向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2832.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2859.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
國軍重量防務營區智慧型警戒系統建置案第二階段預算凍結10%案第39案空軍司令部第8幕向下充實航空技術學院技職基礎及專業精進教育設備師預算凍結10%案第40案憲兵指揮部向下第5幕向下遙控無人機防禦系統預算凍結1000萬元案第41案直通電軍指揮部第5幕向下遙控無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2861.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2868.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
防禦系統預算凍結10%案第42案支通電軍指揮部第5幕向下兼增型無人機預算凍結1000萬元案第43案支通電軍指揮部第5幕向下第三代陸區系統預算凍結1億元案第44案支通電軍指揮部第5幕向下環島第二路由及支通系統微波建設案預算凍結1000萬元案第45案全民防衛動員署第5幕向下微型無人機預算凍結1000萬元案第46案 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2890.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2911.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
參謀本部第四目向下資訊服務費預算凍結3800萬元案第四十七案參謀本部第四目向下軍事裝備設施養物費預算凍結10%案第四十八案軍事情報局第一目向下業務費預算凍結10%案第四十九案軍事情報局第四目向下後勤補給資源預算凍結50萬元案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2914.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2932.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
好 那報告事項二 這個處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議那國防部主管的預算凍結案是提出書面報告後 使得動之 這樣總共71案 報告事項的那現在書面報告已經送交本會 請問各位委員對於預算解凍有無異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2932.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2953.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
沒有那沒有異議的話呢均同意動之提報院會那接下來呢我們會有這個專案報告兩案然後還有另外47案的是書面報告要同意時的動之的討論事項那我們現在先請國防部就主管預算解凍案包含專案報告兩案進行報告請國防部顧部長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2964.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2971.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
主席,各位委員先進,今日大院安排節中議程,本部在此表達誠摯謝意,感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2974.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2996.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
各位委員長期關心國防事務並給予各項指導本次辦理解凍期一百二十案,其中討論四項四十九案專案報告兩案,書面報告四十七案,新台幣八百四十五億兩千九百三十三萬五千元針對委員所關切個案執行現況檢討與進行作為等項,均依決議辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3002.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3019.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
有關業務費凍結30%需向大約報告經統一後凍資議案考量四項預算主要運用在維持主戰裝備妥善、各式訓練彈藥與機艦油料採購、重要武器裝備籌貨及部隊基本運作維持等需求預算凍結對各項戰備整備工作影響甚為重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3031.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3036.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
近三年111年至113年本部業務會執行率均達95%以上預算執行狀況良好114年度各項施政計畫均於預定進度編配預算上半年業務會分配數佔全年36%截至上週五執行率22%後續將配合軍購案結會 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3060.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3068.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
需求及購安交貨啟程等,何時辦理經費之用?預判6月中旬執行率可達30% |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3071.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3097.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
因應中國持續加大對我軍事脅迫及灰色地帶洗澡國航預算獲得為各界關注焦點預算解凍有助於國航施政整體規劃及戰備任務持續推動亦可展現自我防衛的決心為各項重要計畫執行請各位委員鼎力支持預算解凍Base各項施政及建軍規劃案 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3100.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3113.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
計劃啟程推動持續由軍備局局長林文祥中將針對新一代抗彈板發展案與國軍軍事工程執行情形及撤軍作為等兩案實施專案報告,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3125.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3139.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
主席 各位委員 先進 大家好軍備局局長報告新一代抗彈板發展案專案報告依前言軍備局第205場於民國104年依軍種作戰需求研發三級抗彈板自106年起開始生產成品軍機 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3142.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3170.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
檢測合格後交軍使用並於112年7月19日甲規格建設中心大無冰測試場召開媒體邀航說明會現場由媒體隨機抽樣三級抗彈板公開測試結果均符合規範另因應共軍5.8公里鋼性彈威脅於112年9月參照美軍ISAPI檢驗規範具以開發新一代抗彈板二、研發歷程遵112年大院第十屆第七期外交及國防委員會的指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3170.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3182.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
因應中共武器敵情威脅以共軍5.8公里鋼心彈動能數據訂定新一代抗彈板測試的標準以維護國軍官兵戰場生命安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3184.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3210.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
二112年9月27日邀集陸軍海空軍司令部等單位以敵情威脅作戰環境官兵戰鬥力負荷及機動性等需求擬定新一代抗彈板規格軍備局第205場以現有成熟的抗彈纖維部壓制的技術為基礎收整原料商情整合國內學術單位研發能量及技術建立新一代抗彈板所需的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3212.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3235.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
抗彈纖維部結合陶瓷片的複合材料及防水聚尿噴塗等技術112年10月以高雄藝術大學材料科學與工程研究所成立陶瓷抗彈板分析檢測及規範建立研究團隊獲得國內自主產製之陶瓷片厚度重量及硬度等性能參據確認所需陶瓷片材質規格參考美軍聚尿噴塗 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3238.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3247.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
材料的規範112年11月與桃園農華科技大學機械工程研究所成立聚尿塗層分析檢測及規範建立研究團隊開發聚尿 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3251.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3270.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
塗料規格及噴土的技術去強化新一代抗氮板的硬度防水及耐磨等特性以提升防護及存管效能為驗證研發成果112年12月19日由前軍備副部長徐上將率各軍總副軍備局第205場試導實彈測試以5.56公里鋼芯彈提升出速模擬共均5.8公里鋼芯彈射擊動能測試結果符合標準全案於12月28日通過測評 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3281.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3303.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
三 量產規劃一 關鍵陶瓷片籌購秉持國防自主原則兼顧國內軍工產業發展並引進國外優質商園採多元管道籌補全案禁用大陸地區原物料杜絕紅色供應鏈並先期完成國內產業界產能評估以最有利標方式拒以辦理陶瓷片16萬組的採購案 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3305.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3312.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
納編專家學者共同評選最適廠商承攬開標結果是由國內廠商全販60%及國外廠商全販40%共同產製供應與於114年1月15日完成簽約履約中為落實國防自主及促進國防產業發展新一代抗彈板所需的關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3325.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3340.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
料件陶瓷片自113年起納入國防部軍品認識制品項並於113年6月19日完成世商軍品公開展示後續規劃以選擇性招標方式辦理物料儲補作業以加強國內國防產業供應鏈韌性才能規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3343.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3350.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
為滿足軍種戰備任務需求軍備局第205場已完成生產機具及廠房佈線規劃配合滔市變或料期程執行產製作業連產能6萬組本部將持續管制第205場產製進度並滿足國軍官兵戰備任務需求四 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3362.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3376.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
量產交軍建設作為軍備局規格接熱中心大無冰測試場於114年2月8日以依美軍ISAP規範完成TUF認證新一代抗彈板完成產作後遵113年大院第11屆第二期 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3379.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3399.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
拜交及國防委員會指導軍由軍備局規格建設中心大和兵測試場依美軍ISAPI測試程序實施建設合口後交軍使用以維護官兵國軍官兵生命安全補給與軍備局生產製造中心第205場秉持國防自主及提升國軍部隊官兵裝備防護力 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3400.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3421.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
整合國內學術單位研發能量及國內民間軍工廠商的技術建立新一代抗彈板國內自主生產能力將持續收整先進國家發展趨勢及精進抗彈板防護效能懇請大院繼續支持各項國防政策及施政作為同意凍結預算凍資必利任務推動順遂報告完畢敬請指導接續報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3429.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3432.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
國軍軍事工程執行情形及設定作為中央報告一前言 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3434.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3458.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
為提升國軍軍事工程執行效能本部享使檢視及強化工程計劃編審局預算編類作業程序作業流程並於工程契約修訂罰則性的罰則約束及規範產商另藉由強化工程專責單位職者及專業職能訓練起使各軍事工程如期如質如預算完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3458.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3484.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
二 國軍軍事工程執行情形為提升官兵生活品質營造優質服務環境依蔡前總統106年指導推動新安裝案及興建植物宿舍利應應新式武器裝備接裝相關庫儲與訓練場地需求積極建案辦理訓場整建及裝備庫儲等相關工程各項軍事工程執行情形紛紓如火依新安裝案 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3485.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3507.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
自106年運用銀改基金1145億餘元執行103案銀色整建工程 其113年底已完工83案餘20案依契約管制114至118年完工令尊代總統持續照顧官兵政策 以匡列102億餘元執行嶄新專案13案其成115至120年 持續提升官兵住用品質二 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3514.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3520.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
新建植物宿舍自106年運用引改基金144億餘元執行11案1590戶去113年底以完工商案380戶餘8案1210戶依契約管制114至 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3532.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3550.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
一十七年完工令尊賴總統持續照顧官兵眷屬政策以匡列八十七億元在執行興建九案六百八十戶其成一百一十五至一百二十年至一百二十年國軍植物宿舍的總數可達一百零三處九千七百七十二戶三 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3551.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3556.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
陣地、訓場、庫儲及裝備附屬工程因應新式裝備接裝及戰備訓練的需求自104年起運用公務預算及特別預算1336億元執行130案軍事工程如彈藥庫、車庫、戰甲車掩體、機堡、機場跑滑道等以完工37案與93案工程進度及規劃設計作業均正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3576.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3593.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
後續依新式武器裝備獲得其層建案執行相關工程以提升整體戰力四 專案工程依行政院資安政策推動資安園區興建工程配合地方發展辦理雲區簽建如砲校簽建205場搬遷籌建國家軍事博物館等即編列476億元執行33案以完工14案與19案工程進度及規劃設計作業均正常持續依計劃其層 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3606.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3623.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
都管執行三工程務施樣態檢討針對近期委員關切國軍軍事工程執行造生計劃延宕預算增加非法外籍移工旅約爭議及廠商失闖委員辦公室等請說明如下一工程延宕及最佳預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3624.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3647.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
本部工程經奉准核納五聯兵力整建計劃相關的經費編列基於行政院組織總署共同性費用編列基準及工程會公共工程計劃以經費審議作業要點辦理為部分建案單位位於計劃執行前一年可行性評估階段即使依最新的營建物價指數及市場行情合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3648.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3673.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
調修經費、自計劃預算不符市場行情產生流標或減向減量方式招標造成工程延宕及追加預算二、廠商非法引用外籍移工為解決國內營造市場缺工問題依行政院工程會及勞動部110年規定工程企業金額一億元以上或同一個廠商承攬兩件五千億元以上的工程可申請合法外籍移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3674.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3700.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
為部分廠商違法 挺而走險施制非法引用外籍移工衍生營區安全疑慮三、履約爭議處理工程執行期間因專管、建造及施工廠商對契約、履約及設計內容存有爭議且無解決共識自衍生履約爭議工程主辦機關亦未及時裁決造成工程延宕及廠商之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3701.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3719.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
互告等情令未能察覺城南廠商財務問題導致工程進度大幅落後所以契約解約及提告球場並刊登不良廠商公告為以造成廠商之間禮約爭議並訴諸媒體連帶軍意受損是廠商私廠委員辦公室立法委員均以問證所需所需索取工程相關資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3724.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3736.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
本部經依規定天空前空長官核定後由專人親送委員辦公室為營造廠商私自前往委員辦公室拜會說明以造成委員人身安全顧慮是 設定作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3738.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3755.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
為精進上述工程缺失勿施本部檢討策進作為如下一本部已策頒國防部軍事工程策進作為及作業指引自115年起由軍備局公營中心專責執行兩億元以上之一般軍事工程您涉及軍種專業特性及 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3758.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3782.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
10層急迫之工程由各軍種辦理並納編各司令部及指揮部工程專責單位成立專案編組執行建案文件編審預算編類及工程督導執行2.依國軍軍事投資建案作為規定於測定軍事工程需求文件及可行性評估報告等兩階段時機管制各建案單位確實依最新營建 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3782.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3795.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
物價指數及市場行情調修合理經費編列使工程預算一次到位必使工程招標作業順遂三為評選優質廠商工程均採最有利標辦理另於評選階段將參標廠商禮約時機及職安績效納入評分要項另修正參標廠商行公司負責人執行內岸工程禮約優良及輸者試機紀錄由工作小組提供評選委員會納入評分參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3814.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3840.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
4.為強化技術服務及施工廠商約束力本部已修頒工程及技術服務契約範本除就禁止使用陸自機具及產品技術廠商輸折等徵定懲罰性的罰則另針對禁止非法引用外籍移工依工程契約金額及具訂定10至30萬不等罰款如廠商累犯再加乘1.5倍累進計法 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3842.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3846.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
並納入禮約書者事蹟記錄以杜絕違法情勢再生五 為精進禮約爭議處理效率工程禮約爭議直接報請行政院工程會採購申訴審議委員會辦理調解 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3857.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3885.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
廠商若乃對調解結果不符再循仲裁及民事訴訟程序辦理六為提升各單位工程專業職能運用陸軍工兵訓練中心工程正規班及工程管理專業班等班隊年度兼供食物及施工品勤查核講習辦理新進工程人員教育訓練及在職人員互訓以精進工程實務管理能力七針對廠商失智 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3887.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3902.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
进闯委员办公室办会说明之行为如今委员反应不妥本部将该厂商之违私行为纳入履约书者试剂记录于办理工程最有利标评选阶段由工程小组提供评选委员评文参考 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3903.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3927.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
五 給予為達成軍事工程資源戰備任務之目標本部將落實工程專責單位組織管理能力強化工程專業職能訓練審慎評選優質廠商等作為有效提升工程執行效能建請大院持續給予指導與支持同時同意凍結預算動資必利國軍軍事工程推動順遂報告完畢 敬請指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3934.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3950.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
好那我們現在開始詢答本會委員4加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘10點半這個發言登記截止那如果有臨時提案請於10點半以前提出11點左右來處理那我們現在請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請顧部長有請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3972.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3988.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
最近中國的社群有流傳一段疑似以空拍機、遠程鏡頭或衛星圖圖資合成的影片而且還很鉅細靡遺的揭露了華聯空軍基地內部的部署包含了中隊的配置 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3988.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4011.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
還有加固機堡的尺寸、緊急升空戰機的機位等等那甚至還標示了士官兵的影射跟各單位機堡的數量那引發了嚴重的國安疑慮想請教部長因為還有人提到就是說這可能是用無人機地空拍攝的那到底這個影片的真實性如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4012.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4039.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
今天我們研析結果這應該是以不同時期的一個衛星的這個影像的拍攝然後以3D合成的方式然後用軟體來後製的所以完全沒有說它真的就是中共它就是用這一個無人機去做實地的拍攝沒有這件事情我們判斷的結果不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4039.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4063.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以這個中共它是不是又是另外一種認知作戰,就是說台灣的這個軍方說實在的是非常的鬆散,連到這個基地裡面去拍攝,然後是不是要製造這樣子的這個假象,連去拍攝都無法察覺,它是要製造這種認知作戰的錯誤的這個做法嗎?是,我們認為有相當的可能是在從事一種認知作戰, |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4065.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4084.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那如果是說真的有發生這件事情的話,其實我們國軍用這個目視察覺是有辦法的是不是?我想我們對於這個無人機的這個部分,我們現在已經在陸續在不同的這個空軍基地都在歸那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4085.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4111.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
設置這個反制無人機到目前為止還沒有設置完成嗎我所知道就是說如果是用目視的話我們有辦法嗎不會就是說真的如果哪天真的有這個敵方的無人機就是到了這個基地做拍攝如果是說我們這個反制無人機還沒有建置的話這有辦法用目視察覺嗎我想空軍做個說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4115.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4124.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
確實用目視來檢查用目視來找這個無人機尤其現在都是小型無人機非常困難非常困難就算是到基地去的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4126.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4148.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
拍攝我們如果用目視是非常困難的是不是如果它高度高一點的話再加上那些你用眼睛去看它背景非常複雜的情況下這個我們以前在基地在演練的時候都實際的去測試過你用目視去看非常困難那有沒有其他的察覺方式如果沒有反制無人機的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4149.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4170.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我們現在已經在111年開始建置那這個用主動式跟被動式的這個防禦系統它是可以接收到你遙控的這個頻率也可以主動用雷達波的方式去主動搜索那大概在5公里範圍內這個我們已經有部分的基地建置完成效果都非常的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4170.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4179.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
所以說像中國它現在發布的這個影片其實以我們目前的防疫系統防衛系統的話是不可能發生的是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4181.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4204.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
如果建制完成的話這個目前看的情況是一定會被發現所以連花蓮基地其實我們也有一些防疫系統的建制已經有了所以這事情根本就不會發生就全部其實都是一個合成的一片我們的系統目前在陸續的建制中那建制完成的基地目前運作的情況都非常的良好 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4205.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4211.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
OK 那剛剛部長有提到所謂的這個反制無人機那針對這個三軍重要的軍事基地的無人機的這個反制方案目前主要有兩個專案在執行一個是由這個空軍統籌的這個建案就是跨軍種來做部署 那中原院來做研發那另外 這個叫做遙控無人機防疫系統案嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4230.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4245.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那另外還有一個呢就是由陸軍單獨建案採購的這個總共26套的無人機反制系統案那這兩個專案目前進度如何之前好像有一些延宕喔那目前呢年底 據說年底就要建制完成那現在呢請問進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4247.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4272.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那個應該是區分一個是陸軍跟空軍陸軍的部分先請陸軍回答陸軍的部分主要是以外島地區的為主那目前整個進度是正常那整個的這個產製協議書我們也在4月份核定第一梯的13套我們會在今年10月上旬交裝經過驗收合格之後就可以部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4272.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4282.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那另外第二梯的部分是管制在115年交裝目前整個執行進度正常那我們也會落實相關的履約房廠的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4283.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4299.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
所以這一切進度其實都有按照正常的步驟在走所以大部分的話其實在年底就會建制完成10月是第一批然後還有第二批的另外13套在明年到明年去了115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4303.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4311.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
對 OK說實在的面對這個中共的這個情收我在想說不單單會對花蓮其他的地方可能也可能會發生類似這種狀況所以我想說反制無人機的這個建制真的是非常的這個重要那再來還有一點就是說像這個我們還有一個軍事營區安全維護條例在去年九月份的時候就公告了而且有七項的這個執法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4332.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4344.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
預定呢今年的七月就上路那當然在預告期的時候我們會做一些意見的這個會診那目前的進度如何這部分我們本期也想了解一下我們還是會預計在七月以後正式實行 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4346.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4370.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
7月1號正式會施行,那我們這個意見的彙整都已經完全,已經完成了嗎?有這些調整是不是?我們有相關大概十幾個執法嘛七個執法吧,我們有七個執法對不對?法律事務司,有多少?七個執法嘛來,要不要說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4376.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4402.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
目前這些執法都已經完成相關的預告程序目前大概會依照程序在7月1號之前來完成大部作業那當然有一些居民也疑慮就說像我們這個安全維護條例第六條第一項的這個許可事項他們也很擔心說那以後去拍攝這個跑道啦會不會有所影響那我有看到的國防部的這個曾經說起降畫面問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4404.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4420.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
可是我們現在看到就是說花蓮基地這個影片的這事件我們會否會想要考慮再做這個調整會嗎?還是目前還是以這個目前我們所通過的這個執法為主有沒有要做任何的這個調整嗎?會想要更嚴謹更嚴密嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4423.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4433.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我們這個軍生營區安全恢復條例還是會按照我們現在相關的這個預定期程就會來上路7月就是會來上路對對對因為這個營區這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4437.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4460.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
安全的維護條例它已經有將相關的這些包括我們固定的這些軍事安全營區或者是我們正在施行一些戰備演訓的部分都已經也納入了所以我想這個整個來看應該是有周全 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4460.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4469.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
所以我們會如期來施行那當然再看看後續我們執行的狀況OK 好 謝謝 以上謝謝好 謝謝謝謝羅委員接下來有請陳俊武委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4490.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4492.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們有請顧部長有請部長 謝謝好 部長早 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4500.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4522.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
部長,接續剛剛的羅委員質詢的部分不管是我們空軍花蓮基地的問題,不管是影片是AI所形成的或是說有可能是他們透過什麼方式去取得部分的相片或影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4524.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4542.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
可能也涉及到相關的一個比較機敏的一個市政我希望說我們國防部針對這個部分應該要能夠這個積極的掌握相關的情勢避免相關的這個情勢繼續的發生那我想就叫是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4543.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4557.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
對於空拍我們軍事營區的事件從2022年以來我們也看到中國的民用無人機多次侵擾我們金門單靠目視的察覺和干擾槍的反制 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4563.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4579.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
恐怕是這個量能會不足那我們在各個重要的軍事單位尤其是機場周邊是否都有規劃建置無人機的預警以及反制的系統或裝備以避免機民處 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4582.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4608.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
還有這個營區還有其他這個相關的部署會外洩的情形那我想就叫部長就目前我們對這個部分的進度是否都符合這個預期已經進行當中跟委員報告我想第一個還是要說明這一個在流傳的影片應該不是以無人機的方式來進行拍攝的這是第一點第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4609.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4624.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那剛剛陸軍已經有說明了,我們採購無人機的反制系統26套那麼我們會在今年交付13套,那其餘的會在明年交付,這個是屬於部署在金馬東營等地區的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4626.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4643.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那至於另外由這個空軍統建的這個部分,也就是屬於中科院的這個包括固定式跟機動式的這個部分那我們也陸續正在這個結腳這個當中,那我想等這個整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4647.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4672.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
完畢之後呢,我想我們這個無人機的防制系統在各個基地我想就能夠充分的掌握有關無人機來實施空拍的這些作為這樣好,那部長我們針對這個無人機的部分我們目前就是用這個目視察覺還有這個干擾槍的一個反制那還有沒有其他比較先進的方式可以來反制? |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4674.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4691.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
剛剛提到有關中科院所做的UDS防禦系統,我想驗證的結果應該是可以來反制這些小型的無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4694.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4723.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我想除了這個中科院的這個反制作業的相關設施以外我們也看到漢翔公司目前也積極的投入發展這個無人機的反制系統建立自有的這個防疫產品並且目前已經進入系統測試的階段那近期內我們陸軍也以國防創新發展名義公開徵求可吸式的這個無人機反制系統規格上要求能夠干擾其接管 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4723.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4735.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
一二級的這個無人機並且能夠偵測到操作者的一個位置等等那國防部是否還有針對不同單位的這個需求對於無人機反制系統有擴大這個研發採購的一個相關計畫我先請陸軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4743.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4765.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
報告委員 委員剛才所提詢的除了兩個部分第一個機場的UDS的固定室還有機動室之外那另外剛才部長所答詢的包含到外離島地區那我們陸軍現在也正在評估各層級部隊對無人機的反制上的需求那所以我們目前在依照一個公開商情的做一個了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4766.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4774.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
國內外目前反制系統的成熟程度那未來納入我們的各層級無人機反制系統的一個配置的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4776.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4805.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
也就是說我們會有新型式的無人機的反制系統會有更新型式的新型式另外我想就我們國防產業的一個發展合作來救救我們國防部台灣一直希望能夠打入美國的國防供應鏈日前我們行政院龔明欣秘書長在訪美的過程當中曾經公開表示美國在無人機的研究上有 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4806.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4829.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這個最先進的一個技術那台灣則在這個生產的方面我們有對於這個部分蠻精進的一個生產線那具體指出台美軍工產業合作的一個可能性過去這個AIT處長古立遠也在近期的一個專訪當中指出雙方在這個無人機領域的一個合作聚焦 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4831.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4853.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
會在AI應用還有供應鏈整合以及投資等三個重大的領域近期內對於台美共同生產的武器的討論似乎已經逐漸的明朗具體化我想請教部長雙方在推動共同生產的議題上就目前能夠公開揭露的部分是否已經有更進一步的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4855.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4877.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
美國在跟我們從事相關的軍事交流的部分呢特別針對這個以俄烏戰爭的一個經驗那特別我們以一個海島的國家對於無人機要從事相關的這個後續的這個生產跟這個供應的是也就是說我們並 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4879.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4903.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
並不那麼的簡單說從外國來運不過來所以我們要建立自主的生產能量是相當的重要所以在這個部分呢不管是透過授權生產或共同研發或者是在地來生產然後來排除這個非紅的供應鏈這個部分我想我們現在都在進行當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4906.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4922.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我想請教部長,目前我們跟美方的合作,他們比較關切的會是什麼?哪一方面的事情?應該比較關切的應該就是說,我們的自主的產能,是不是足夠因應? |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4924.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4952.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
自主的產能對現在就是說我們需要有一些關鍵的一些技術嘛這是一點那這些關鍵的技術我們可能可以透過授權的方式可以透過共同研發的方式那或者是透過這個我們自己本身跟民間的能量來進行研發這些現在無人機的產業我想已經快速的相當已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4954.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4962.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
已經有快速的在形成一定的這個能量但要因應這一個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4964.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4981.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
足夠的產能,這個部分我們還需要努力就在產能方面對,產能的一個擴張那這個部分跟委員報告也就是說我們必須要打入國際供應鏈就是說國際的非紅供應鏈,這個部分我們必須要打入才會有一定的經濟規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4988.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5012.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
好,那這部分我們也期待國防部透過這次跟美方的合作能夠順利的打入供應鏈的提供那也讓雙方在軍工產業的合作上能夠進一步的合作對於我們國防產業的發展還有國家安全都能夠向上提升這是我們期待的是好,謝謝部長謝謝,謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5016.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5033.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好 謝謝俊宇委員接下來有請黃仁委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請顧部長有請部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5043.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5051.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
是,黃委員好部長好,那個有關於我們現在的這個海馬斯實彈的這個試射的一個訊號的異常那這個海馬斯是經過這個二五實戰的一個戰爭裡面它的針對這個效果不錯那是美國提供的 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5071.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5085.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
但是現在就是在過程中有兩度在國軍採購的海馬斯多管火箭5月12日首次在九鵬基地進行的實彈射擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5087.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5111.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
在過程中兩度發生訊號異常導致射擊被迫暫停之後靠美方人員現場的協助才完成了33發的射擊那請問部長這所謂的信號異常是什麼發生的原因是什麼那你回答一下好不好是請陸軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5113.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5129.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我也好 向您報告首先我說明一下我們所採購的海馬斯系統是目前美方最新的海馬斯的火箭飛彈系統那有關於在九龐射擊當天的訊號異常那是在射擊命令傳輸到這個射控電腦之後射控電腦它自行檢測計算出的一個故障的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5137.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5155.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那經過我們的操作手按照美方寄令的一個程序故障排除之後也順利射擊了那這個狀況我們當在會射擊結束之後也立刻反映給美方的寄袋還有反映回美國那他目前給我們的一個回覆是 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5157.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5182.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個系統上面它主要功能都是完整的那最主要是它的電腦檢測上面應該是軟體上面它的一個偶發那目前在美軍或是其他的供售國在這個軟體程式也發現類似的狀況那會盡快的做一個軟體的修訂所以基本上不是全車系統上的問題是一個軟體程式上面需要再做修正的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5183.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5189.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
故障排除當然是一個信念的一環但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5190.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5211.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
第一個 故障排除是特殊的狀況確保武器妥善才是根本那第二 海馬斯是新的裝備那理論上首次試射不應該出這個問題第三 排除故障是靠美方人員協助第四 信號異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5213.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5241.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
不只是發生一次所以不要拿這個信念當作是一個藉口所以本席認為故障的原因大致上有幾個可能性所以你剛剛信號資訊這個問題就已經在裡面第一個系統內部連線或裝備設定的異常第二美軍原廠安全控管的機制第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5243.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5260.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
電池環境複雜過強第四GPS的干擾或欺敵所以如果故障的原因是出於技術的問題當然本席第一項和第二項相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5261.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5288.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
國軍有絕對的能力排除但本席最擔心的是第三第四項而且是擔心共軍的干擾所以剛剛我講的就是GPS有沒有可能性是這樣的一個問題你坦白講因為這個現在共軍在任何在磁波上在電信上都非常的強所以你可以老實講說這是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5290.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5314.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
GPS的干擾就是共機的干擾在九棚整個的涉及基本上對電池環境包含到第一可能的這個訊號的接收都是在我們整個的管控和防制作為內現在擔心本身擔心的不是沒有原因2023到2025的二五的戰爭的期間海馬斯系統就發生過因為GPS的干擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5320.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5337.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
而遭摧毀而且共青擁有強大的電子戰的能力根據過往的經驗共青殘害系的部署R9電機戰海上電子干擾的等見及紀律 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5339.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5365.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
九鵬東側外海的一百到兩百公里的範圍活動甚至共青的陸基電戰雷達戰都有能力以電磁波壓制範圍包含福建沿海至台灣東部的一百五十公里到兩百五十公里的範圍所以這就是今天我要講的是電子干擾確實有沒有這個回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5368.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5394.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
當天在整個射擊除了海空域還有包含到整個電池環境都是我們在射擊會考慮的安全事項當天沒有異常的情況那為什麼出過兩次的異常所以你們沒有真正的回答這個問題嗎出過兩次的回答而且這個是美方協助的喔是在現場協助怎麼會有兩次的異常那你們有沒有找出問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5395.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5422.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
報告委員我剛剛跟您報告這個是操作手依照美紀令他自行實施故障排除的那但是是在會後向現場的紀帶我們也回覆到美方那證實是攝控軟體的一個需要更新的問題軟體更新它是新的武器所以你們自己要去考慮面對事情的時候我們趕快去解決今天的共青的電子播報電子戰都非常的強大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5423.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5440.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
所以這個是要如何防範將來以後GPS的干擾干擾到我們新的武器好不好這是你們要去研究的以上好 謝謝黃仁委員 部長請回接下來進行巡達的委員 沈伯陽委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5451.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5452.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
謝謝主席 有請部長 謝謝來 部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5465.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5486.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
今天因為蠻多人在問無人機拍攝在小紅書上面的影片我不針對這個內容因為剛剛前面大概都已經回答過了但我這邊比較有疑慮的事情是說因為這件事情大概幾天前發生的發生的時候當然這個國人對此有疑慮所以記者其實很快就拿來問 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5489.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5504.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
其實那個時候我有先問國防部就是針對這件事情的回應但是並沒有很快得到解答所以就變成說我們在晚間新聞的時候我們就只好自己先來看畫面然後確認到底有沒有無人機的拍攝還是衛星中間有沒有AI |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5505.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5524.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
然後甚至呢裡面那個圖裡面有沒有錯誤就針對這一個人來針對媒體回答但我覺得這樣並不是一個很正常的事情就在於說照理說這件事情回答的第一時間在不管是晚間那一定是那個傍晚嘛就是晚間新聞的時候應該是由國防部來說明而不是由我來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5524.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5552.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
所以就是說針對這件事情不知道未來因為這一件認知作戰或者相關的威脅又或者說合成的影片又或者真的可能會有拍攝就是說針對這一些訊息我們不需要國防部具姓名義的告訴國人因為這裡面可能牽涉很多互相的攻防但有時候會有一個比較general的回應就是在於說這件事情我們目前掌握到什麼樣的程度然後未來我們可能會在哪裡需要加強是不是針對這一點請部長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5554.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5570.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我想委員的指教是正確的啦我想我們會以後碰到這個狀況我們會盡速的來做出回應因為我怕說這個以後可能會越來越多像最近不只只有這些像最近可能在網路上也有很多就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5572.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5592.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
說跟中國統一沒有什麼不好啊什麼等等之類的這跟國防部沒有直接的關係但很明顯就是有可能對方在做類似的這種網軍的操作那這種操作呢有時候第一時間假設未來開始跟國防有關的時候有可能需要國防部越來越經常性的出來回應那有些可能是國安就可能需要國安局那這個部分我覺得是蠻重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5593.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5615.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那另外也有一點就是剛剛前面也有人問過就是中科院針對這一個無人機的侵擾之前大概20在之前質詢的時候就有提到2023年可能會有一定的這些預警的雷達或什麼等等之類的一個方案那個其成因為剛剛羅委員問過了所以我就不多問但我想問另外一個也是跟這個比較有關係的跟剛剛那個議題其實有關就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5616.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5637.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個把機的上面這個接收器的晶片疑似有中國製那我現在先不管說它內容到底這個如何或者說到底有沒有中國製這個問題現在有一個狀況跟剛剛有點類似就是在於說其實有好幾次上次我們在問的時候也是就是國防部有主動清查因為場上真的非常多那主動清查之後呢發現有中國製 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5639.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5665.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
然後中國製之後請他要改善等等之類的常常會有這樣的一些狀況但常常都會是媒體報導之後然後國防部才出來說的確這個是我們已經有清查過的清查過的時候當時有發現所以有請他改善所以會不會針對類似像這樣的事情是不是也有一個改進的空間就是在於說如果今天是有國防部主動他本來就已經發現的他已經清查的他其實可以主動直接跟國人說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5665.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5684.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
他不用等到媒體都特別出來報導說哦疑似有中資疑似有中國零件然後就變成說在這個場合國防部再來回應但是這件我不在講這件事情但我說這個衍生相關的事項是不是有可能以後會有一個比較提早的跟國人來說明那這樣的話呢你就不用一直被動的挨打這個我們可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5691.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5712.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
討論一下就是說委員的意思應該是說即使在這個事情還沒有被報導之前我們就主動的來說明這件事情這樣就對了對因為我覺得其實有時候有發生錯誤廠商有問題等等之類的或者內控的控管沒有嚴格這些其實有錯誤都沒有關係像今天軍備局的這個報告我有看到他就講說我們現在發現我們有哪幾項錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5715.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5742.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
所以我們這些錯誤來做相關的改正其實我覺得這是一個很健康的態度就是說本來我們就是要滾動式的針對這些事情來做修正那如果說因為是標準不明結果發生了問題又或者說今天是標準明確結果是廠商的問題不同的種類如果國防部先出來說明的話就不用一直來應對媒體這樣的一個又有人出來爆料又有可能是廠商可能沒有得標的以後結果跑出來又要爆料一些事物那這個會沒完沒了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5742.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5745.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這個有關於黃國一把機這個事情向您做個報告第一個我們在這個微博報導之後我們有針對他報導的這個RF接收機和相關的晶片第一個我們詢問的廠商我首先報告我們這個的採購的契約裡面就強調禁止使用中國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5767.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5796.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
製造的相關內部的元件或是錄製品那第二個我們詢問了廠商之後他是說他不是使用那但是我們也把相關的電子元件目前全部拆解送到專案的實驗室去進行檢查那在檢查出來之後我會向委員做個報告OK好那這個我們再來說明那這個就不一樣因為這個就是他是報導了之後呢就會去問但是他可能不是那不是之後還要再送進一步的檢驗那就不是我剛剛講的這個情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5798.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5821.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
接下來因為這個最近有些駭客活動越來越多但是因為這個是比較長期性的問題那今天跟解凍有關所以我問下一個跟這個跟預算比較有關的就是說因為4月1號的時候就已經有說這一個加薪等一下可能請部長講一下就是4月1號這個公佈之後對於這個國軍他的士氣等等的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5822.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5837.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
但另外我只想追問一個小問題就是說我在去年11月13號的時候有在問就是這個休假補助費因為現在就會有假都休不完的問題那假都休不完呢用加班費不太合適尤其是國軍現在的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5839.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5862.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
所以我記得之前嘉賓委員其實也有問過就是休假補助費那因為2024年的時候這個人事總署應該2023、2023就有說要從寬來做一個認定那因為我前陣子問國防部的回應是說就有可能這個休不完的假可能要累積到明年但是如果這樣子的話因為我們都知道如果今年休不完的假累積到明年明年也一定也休不完 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5862.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5890.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
但是這會牽扯到預算因為如果用休假補助金的方式一人就算一天用一千來算那這個如果說用自願一五萬人來算這個金額也不小一億以內大概也是一定的金額所以就這個問題因為之前有說三個月之內希望有一個方案那是不是之後可以來這一個辦公室我們再來討論一下就是休假補助金這件事情我們應該要怎麼處理那這邊先請部長想要跟國人說明一下就是四月一號這個加薪之後目前來講這個狀況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5893.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5910.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
四月要加薪之後,我到基層去做一些訪視的時候,可以感覺到他們對這個加薪都非常有感覺因為這個加薪的幅度,自願意加上戰鬥部隊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5911.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5935.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
這個加薪的程度來講,我覺得現在都有一定相當程度的成長像我手上現在的資料,如果你以戰鬥部隊來講,以一個二兵來講如果他現在以志願役的勤務加給,加上戰鬥部隊的加給來看的話二兵大概都有到五萬四千一百五十塊錢所以我想應該是有感的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5937.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5962.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
至於那個加班的那個委員好 一些數據先跟委員做個說明就是我們在10月1號加薪之後到目前為止就是報退伍有600多個人抽回來那不適服的部分也有87個他已經報不適服但是在加薪之後他又把它抽回來也就是說在留營跟不適服的這個部分都已經有成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5963.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5989.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那在招募的部分,在第三批色情的招募也比去年同期增加600多人,這是首先跟委員報告那有關那個休假的部分,我們現在已經在研擬,就是不休假,剛剛委員講的我們已經研擬完了,那後續找時間再去跟委員辦公室做說明好,謝謝,那謝謝局部長,謝謝主席好,謝謝昭偉,這個不釋服了加了薪就釋服了,這個其實要研究一下看他不釋服到底什麼原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6001.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6002.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
主席麻煩顧部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6025.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6049.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
市長,我盡量問一個日期的問題,當然日期會有左右更動但是我們在設定計畫目標的時候,有的時候叫D-Day,有的時候叫Zero Day就是以事情那一天往回推算,我該做好什麼樣的準備小朋友七月份要聯考,他就會往前推算,他要幾次模擬考哪一科考不好,三角函數哪裡不好,我哪裡來修正,大概所有的計畫都跟這差不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6050.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6076.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那我們最近常常聽到一個時間叫做2027年2027年事實上在2015年提出到現在已經10年了當時習近平提出了幾個時間點2021中國共產黨建軍百年他們要脫貧然後他們時間到了不管有沒有脫貧一定宣布脫貧叫做2021脫貧小康那事實上中國現在還有4億人口每月所得低於1000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6077.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6102.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那另外一個2025中國製造也就中國要設定全球製造業的標準就像USB的標準一樣他們認為他們是世界工廠一個COVID-19這個也結束了沒有了所以2021的計畫事實上對中國來講包含李克強這個死掉以後呢中國的脫貧其實是算失敗2025中國製造被川普 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6103.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6119.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這個拜登呢他們兩個其實在過去這幾年讓2025中國製造大概也結束了不管是晶片戰爭等等現在剩下一個日期叫20272027是中國解放軍建軍百年習近平講了很多話他其中講的就是2027要實現百年奮鬥目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6123.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6141.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
其中後面還有就是建構一個在這個區域可以排除干預區域性的強權那很多美方的智庫美方的將領大概就用2027作為解放軍動作的一個設定的D-Day |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6141.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6167.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
或者是Zero Day那0日就從那邊計算來的所以我要請教就是說我們看到一些說法2021年3月當時的Philip Davidson提出6年內中國會對台灣軍事行動6年就是指2027再來2024年的3月我們前一任的Archilino他最近有來台灣他在美國正式的作證 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6168.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6187.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
也指出解放軍這種種的準備措施大概在2027年前會具備對台採取軍事行動的能力4月24號這個他在接受訪問的時候呢他提出一個情報說習近平指示軍隊2027年前要做好準備再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6189.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6213.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
2024年10月這個帕帕羅上將呢他說2027年解放軍攻台提前發生他對於美軍會擊敗解放軍的能力有信心這時候講到因應了我這待會要請教部長2025年最新的3月18號這個卡頓卡頓是戰略司令部的他在年度的國防大會警告美國的所有將領中國將加速軍事擴張 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6216.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6230.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
已經回到大國競爭的時代就冷戰時期那他又提出一次習近平只是在2027年前做好奪取台灣的軍事準備那5月15最近這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6233.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6255.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這位好朋友他是美國在眾議院的重量級的共和黨級議員他是美國與中國共產黨戰略競爭特別委員會的主席另外一個是川普的好朋友是參議員叫做Blackburn他們除了提出各個飯店不應該用中國台灣來貶抑台灣主權以外他裡面提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6257.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6276.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
2027年不是美國的時間表是中國的是習近平的時間表習近平已經下令解放軍在2027年前準備對台動武的能力好我揭露這些東西裡面看到了美國在軍事委員會在相關的委員會作證的情報的指出我第一個要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6278.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6293.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
部長就我們國防部所掌握的情資解放軍建構的戰爭系統也就是他建構的體系是否已經朝2027年準備完成對台動武的準備你們的判斷是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6294.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6318.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我們認為我們應該要讓我們一方面是料敵從寬一方面是我們要讓他2027年的這樣子的一個所謂的攻台的計畫不斷的往後遞延這是我們的目的讓他每天早上起來覺得今天打台灣好像不是好日子我們再想一下吧這是在區域地緣政治討論很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6321.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6330.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
所以我們要強化我們的自我的防衛能力所以有做一些準備那你有看到中方也在做準備嗎當然中方每天都以他這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6332.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6352.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
每年大概成長百分之七,每年吧,都七點多趴的這樣的一個軍事預算不斷地在成長,那當然我們對這個東西要加以警惕,這是當然的。所以我請教部長,就是說中國解放軍對台的威脅到二零二七年是不是來到一個高峰,可以這樣講嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6353.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6375.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
他的威脅的性質,我沒有問說我們有沒有準備好,就他的準備,他的對我們的威脅,到2027年前後是不是來到一個高峰期?我認為他應該是不斷地會從事這個,他的軍事力量的一個擴張,而且他的野心應該不是只有在於這個亞太的區域, |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6375.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6401.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
的一個霸權 而且他會向這個還會往外擴張整個的往外擴張因為他騷擾的不是只有台灣 菲律賓那邊都有那我該問的是他 就我們看中國解放軍對台灣的威脅準備到達2027年 至少他們的節點要做個盤整那我現在看我軍 我們台灣 我們國軍我們準備最不足的時候是不是已經過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6403.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6423.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
最危險的我們最敵我的判別就是人家對我們的威脅他一直堆疊他的能力是一件事情我們自己有沒有準備我們能力夠不夠是另外一個界面兩個界面交叉分析那個點就是最危險的點嘛我現在說那就我方我們國軍我直接坦白問最不足最危險的時刻過了沒我想我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6427.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6442.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
要不斷地求進步不斷地要同時進行國安改革所以我們提出來就是說2027要有達成這個高戰備的能力意思就是說我們要能夠在2027年 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6444.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6457.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
的時候呢要可以達到在極短的時間之內部署跟執行戰那個高戰備的意思其實就是讓我們台灣國軍我坦白講特別是陸軍要成為stand in force |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6460.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6474.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
戰區內準備好的而這個力量其實指的是我們的主戰部隊第一時間的主戰部隊要有類似美國他們兵海戰鬥團那一句Standing in force在區內立即快速的擋住 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6475.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6495.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我們現在建構目標是這樣子嗎我想應該不只是我們的陸軍我們所有的三軍都要三軍的我剛才問說我們準備最不足或最危險的時候是不是已經過了我看你微笑你應該知道我在問什麼了我時間點我不點出來那個moment要過去那未來威脅我們才要來因應那另外我再進一步問 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6496.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6509.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們高戰備所指的就是在那個當下我們的人跟人的狀態跟部隊的心態都要達到能夠立即因應各種變化敵情指的是這個嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6510.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6524.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
對 也就是說我們要藉由立即備戰的操演 漢光演習等等各式的聯合作戰的訓練來獲知真實的戰場體驗跟作戰的參數 確保我最後一分鐘問幾個重要題目所以在2027年前 我們對美軍事採購的項目有沒有根據這個思維 要拿到什麼項目 我們有所調整 有還是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6536.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6552.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們不斷的在跟美方從這樣子的一個思維出發從我在國安會擔任秘書長的時候就開始討論我們從2021年就不斷的在做這樣子的一個共識的行程 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6552.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6567.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
美方認為當下最急於提供的裝備也是根據這個思維應該有一些裝備也有所調整我這樣詮釋沒有錯嘛這是一個長期的溝通過程我方認為這個是我需要的他們認為2027年你們應該需要這個兩方討論後之後項目會做一些調整沒有錯吧對關鍵戰力的行程 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6574.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6583.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那我最後問一個人的問題我只舉個例子我們今年三軍官校招生女生好像超過了但是男生的學官不足這怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6587.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6611.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
應該講的是指國防管理學院跟政戰學院的部分我們今年的正規的軍事院校所招收的名額都比我們預期要來得多來得好來得好這個要比去年要來得好很多也就是說我們預期本來是招收一千五百多今年是四千零八 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6612.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6630.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
預計照說一千五百多然後報名的四千多這其實比以前好很多不是比較好而已是好很多好非常多男女學官有沒有失衡跟委員報告我覺得就是說現在拿我覺得第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6632.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6658.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們招收希望能夠滿足我們的這個需求那我們確實現在招收的名額已經遠高於我們的預期這是第一點第二點我們在招收的時候我們並不認為要區分男女這樣子的一個比例那第三個我認為女性從事志願役之後她們的表現也不輸於男性 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6659.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6687.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那再來就是說我們我們還要修法我們第四點我簡單講就是說我們之後志願役的這個軍事官兵等退伍之後我們還是納入後備的這個動員邊關的範圍之內我剛才講說我們在招收官校的學官的時候這些學生的時候我們並沒有設定男女生的比例差異沒有嘛我們不可能我們設定是個總員合我要收一千五這一千五不分男女達標我就用嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6688.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6708.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
對所以所謂的男生不足女生偏多這句論述本身是錯誤的對我們都以成績的優勢我們沒有設定性別的差別是OK好謝謝好謝謝謝謝丁宇委員部長請回接下來有請許巧欣委員上台質詢謝謝主席我們有請顧部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6725.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6751.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
是徐恩好部長好我也是接續下來要問這個我們在招收國軍的普遍狀況那呢剛才這個王定宇委員也講到了在國防大學的管理學院裡面呢預計收140人那現在有158人出現了難得的超額那一年級裡面呢男生是68人女生是90人那等於說呢女生是比男生多了四成那這也是創下了空前的紀錄所以您說的沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6752.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6781.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
就是說呢我們招生的狀況整體來說是比較多的但是呢女性的部分呢也多了百分之四十那呢這個很大的很多人都會問說那請問我接著問說那請問男生招生就我們不講女生女性來從軍很好女生的表現一定也很好但是我想要問一下為什麼男性那現在在報名軍上那會相對於女性少這麼多呢你們所了解的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6782.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6798.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們了解原因就是說我們採成績的一個排序所以男生成績比較不好折優來錄取那為什麼來參加報考的男生成績會比較不好所以折優之後是女性比較多呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6799.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6825.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
是說成績比較好的男生不想要來報考這個報告委員你們要不要去了解一下為什麼他會有失衡的這個情形報告委員我台大法律系畢業就我了解現在台大法律系B那個遭受的名額結果那個如果你去看的話女生的數也比男生多對啊我知道嘛那你要我說怎樣呢你要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6827.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6843.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我覺得男女現在是平等的我們現在對男女的從軍我們也都鼓勵的我們也不認為女性的表現會在畢業之後會比男性來得差而且表現有時候甚至比男性來得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6844.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6869.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好我們看下一張您剛說軍哨招收成績都是超額的三軍官預計是786人現有440人招募率56%然後沒有男女之分可是你可以看到我們現在畫的這個圖上面跟當初簡章規劃的這個數字規劃的數字在軍費身上面是有男性跟女性的我們陸軍官校海軍官校空軍官校理工學院管理學院跟戰戰學院 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6870.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6894.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
其實都是在招收的時候有男女生的差別啊那我們在法律系你剛剛講的他考台大法律系裡面他上面會告訴你說我們預計招收男性多少女性多少他沒有啊所以這兩者之間是不能做比較的呀我們軍費生的招收元額軸表上面有沒有寫女性跟男性的分別有嗎跟委員報告我們沒有去區分男生跟女生 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6900.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6929.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
你們沒有去區分男生跟女生那招生元額總表為什麼要分我們只是在區隔男性多少女性多少對就是說現在的現在的所有大一到大四的所有男生跟女生有多少人對啊那你們不是說都不需要區分嗎那為什麼我們在招生元額總表我講的不是現在是你們招生元額總表上面就針對一般生飛行生上面你們就有分男性跟女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6929.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6948.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
委員報告就是說我們三軍官校目前就是說還是女生報名比較少但是罹管證的部分因為他們畢業大部分在後勤或者是心腹或者是醫院的這個部分那這樣子男女生我們就不會有任何區別我沒有說要有區別 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6949.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6974.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我從頭到尾您不要誤解我的意思我沒有說要有區別我也鼓勵女性從軍報考軍校那能夠有好的成績我也覺得很棒我只是說剛剛講的這個比喻是不倫不類因為我們在招生緣額總表上面就有分成是男性跟女性那現在大家問的問題是說為什麼女性呢看起來現在是好您說因為成績排序比較前面所以超額招收的時候它會被列在比較前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6975.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7004.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
但實際上面我們看到的狀況就是在畢業以後那他們可能比較多的人他像您說的去了新府單位或者後勤單位那請問我們戰鬥部隊或者是我們憲兵比方說先前的2110的邊縣比等到他們從這個學校畢業之後如果他從事志願役那在這個男性的他們可能在前線部隊人數是比較多那這個時候會不會造成軍方我們整體的失衡的情況這是你們要去再多加討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7005.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7022.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我想兩點第一點招生緣和總表區分男女比例只是一個現況的呈現不代表任何其他的任何意涵這是第一點第二點我到基層部隊裡面去看的時候我看到很多女性服役的表現 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7023.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7042.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
都不會比男生來的差我完全認同所以我只是要強調這一點我剛剛也講過跟你一模一樣的話對我來講我看不出有任何其他除了呈現一個說男生跟女生是多少之外有其他的任何意義存在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7042.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7059.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
OK 好 那你們就覺得這樣子的發展對於接下來繼續有這樣子的一個情況的話你們也是樂於看待的樂觀其成我們對於女性的軍事觀以後納入後備的一個叫招這樣我理解了你們認為現在這個狀況可以繼續往這個方向發展嗎那我只是要了解一下你們想法是什麼那另外我們想要問一下這個海昆號的這個進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7068.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7074.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那因為我們可以看一下在2024年的時候11月25號的新聞這還刊載在青年日報上面呢那就有媒體曾經報導過這個我們往下一張看圖片媒體當時報導說海昆號的測試HAT不如預期那4月還是有困難海軍司令部還回應說呢現在已經這個以嚴謹的態度控管預計案節點你們的計畫節點是4月1期程進行海上測試SAT |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7097.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7101.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
在5月6號的時候呢說海軍已經進到最後的準備階段了兩週前呢說是大概520的時候那現在呢5月23號的時候呢說這個要等到海昆號達到安全條件以後才會進行海上測試沒有時間表那請問這個不斷延期的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7118.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7132.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
就我們從青年日報上面我們真的發新聞稿2025年的2月5號一路到這個4月5月6月這個6月還沒到5月到現在已經多次的針對海昆號的部分那有討論到時間點 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7134.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7150.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
然後節點你們都說在節點上可是你看喔先前在2月25號的時候的按計劃節點是在4月1期程執行海上測試但到現在突然都沒有時間表了我想要問一下不斷延期的原因到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7151.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7167.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我想在最近這個海軍有關於海上測試說要在4月設定一個實際出來的時程這件事情我的理解並沒有這樣講過我們還是以我的了解是海軍是說我們已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7176.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7181.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
要盡力的努力完成最後備件的階段應該是這樣子吧2月25號不對2025年2月25號的青年日報上面寫的是青年日報我可不是引用一般的新聞媒體報導寫說海軍說海昆號一騎乘於4月執行海上測試第二點叫做呢現在呢這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7202.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7221.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
現在沒有電壓不穩的問題續按計劃節點於4月1期程執行海上測試這個是你們公開的在這個地方我可以給大家看所以部長您剛剛說的是不對的或許你沒有看過當時2月25號所發的新聞稿所以按照節點的部分已經有所拖延我想委員需要給我們一點時間回答來 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7226.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7235.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
在去年的整個階段來講,整個海昆軍艦的海上測試從今年的四月份到九月份是海上測試的期程四月份到九月份都是海上測試的期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7246.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7254.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
要達到所有的裝備還有一些安全條件的設置我們都不需要都在符合安全的當然這個我也非常認同海上測試所以特別要跟委員講說其實我們並沒有如這個媒體上面講我們有預定要一個特定的一個時間來做一個我的意思是說你們的計劃節點有延遲 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7268.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7292.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
因為上一次我來問的時候你們告訴我說都沒有延遲都是按照計劃節點如期進行可是我現在拿的是2025年2月25號你們在第二點上面寫的你們講說你們的計劃節點是在今年的4月份做海上測試那所以我想問我們的海上測試按照計劃節點原定的計劃節點是否有延後的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7295.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7307.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我想跟委員報告就我光部的立場我們來要求海軍就是一切以安全這我都知道剛才他也講過了我問的是我們的計畫因為我們要做一個船我們總是有分計畫節點你們每次我問的時候你們都講說我現在目前按照計畫節點要怎麼做怎麼做怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7316.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7333.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那如果這個計劃節點沒有按照時程的話那它就是延後了所以我想要問說有沒有計劃節點原定的狀況之下因為安全的考量因為希望更完善的考量而延後按照原本的規劃而延後的情形發生就這麼簡單的一個問題而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7336.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7354.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
剛剛參謀長已經講過了4月到9月是我們的一個海上測試的一個整個的一個期程但是要在安全的測試情況之下才能夠進行海測那這個就是我們的一個最高的一個原則那我希望海軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7354.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7361.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
能夠盡快的讓這個HAT的相關的這些所需要的調教等等技術能夠完成那以便能夠進行海測那我最後一個問題問因為呢在二月的時候我們的節點在海上測試的部分是到四月嘛對不對那現在目前呢都還沒有辦法完成博港測試那等於說按照原本的計畫的節點其實我這邊我自己講啦就是往後延了 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7382.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7383.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我們現在還是會進行所必須要的海上測試的一些期程跟項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7407.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7421.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
當然那我想要問的是說你們有沒有預期好心理準備原定的11月交界會再往後延期了我們海上的測試的相關的期程我們會根據我們進入了海上測試階段會來做這個調整那麼這個項目的部分我們也不會打折 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7427.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7453.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那最後一個問題就是說你們節點既然已經被打亂了那這幾個節點就是海上測試博港測試的節點海上測試的節點跟交建的這個整個幾個節點那要重新調整嗎如果要重新調整的話會告訴我們國防外交委員會或是社會大眾嗎我們進入海上測試之後如果委員有能夠要了解的話我想我們會以機密的方式來跟委員說說明好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7457.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7462.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
好 謝謝徐委員 部長請回接下來有請林屬英委員上台質詢謝謝主席 主席有請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7478.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7499.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我要問的題目其實跟網路相關如果我們的資通電軍的指揮參謀長可以的話你可以一起回應部長其實過去在質詢的時候我蠻關注的就是有關於社群媒體包括過去我講到的這個在社群的平台有粉絲團啊或者是一些廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7500.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7527.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
引誘我們的軍中弟兄以所謂的軍人證就可以來貸款或者是低利貸款然後迫使他們進入一個金錢誘惑那麼可能造成我們的所謂軍中的資料或資訊外露的部分那麼在我的這個跟部長我們這個整個國安團隊以及我們國防部的努力之下其實本席現在去看那些粉專或者是相關的這種廣告其實已經減少非常多甚至於已經都找不到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7527.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7533.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
那麼但是我們都知道中國的灰色滲透方方面面我相信今天剛剛您來的時候媒體也都在問有關於這個花蓮的空軍基地在中國的社群平台當中被曝光那麼其實本席在許多的社群平台當中也都不斷的有網友在提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7547.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7555.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
就是中國的社群平台看到台灣的軍機或者是我們這些軍民合作的這些空軍包括像這一張圖片是中國的抖音然後轉到了現在的包括其他的網路上面是我們的松山機場那麼我們知道那邊有一個松止步 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7566.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7583.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
其實這樣的資料或者是這樣的圖片跟影像在小紅書或者是抖音上面非常多甚至於是在抖音上有專門的這樣的帳號比如說我有看到的叫做什麼台灣小妮啊等等它其實就是不斷的在做一種台灣的軍事上面的曝光那麼其實這個它也可能是真的也可能是假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7593.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7614.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
但是無法避免的是在我們許多的基地比如說像松山的基地或者是像清泉崗基地它本身是軍民合用的同時一定就會有人會去進入攝影跟拍攝那是真是假不知如果部長所說的像今天花蓮的基地那個是假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7615.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7629.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
虛造的那它造成的是一種民心的擔憂因為包括像現在我們看到很多在報導當中都有提到就是會有人來拍攝台灣的街景拍攝台灣的學校那麼會認為是第五縱隊的滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7634.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7658.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那麼我想回到一個比較是管理面的部分來請問一下部長就是在我們幾個軍民合用的這些軍事基地當中我們到底能不能確保我們的空軍的這些包括軍機或者是粗缺勤的等等不會曝光在這個中國派人來進行操作或拍攝的過程部長參謀長要不要先說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7663.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7690.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就空軍基地的部份軍民的養殖海豹委員在民航的部分是比較難去限制但是在登機之後一般我們都會要求民航機的機組員要在機內做一個廣播那我們在機場也會同時做一個廣播但是如果說他用像現在的手機在機場裡面在座艙裡面做一個拍攝的話這個是比較難去做一個防範 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7691.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7705.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
是那比如說像當然因為我現在沒有特別的想要去播中國抖音的影片啦那麼你們如何來判斷或判別這個到底是真的還是假的那如果是假的讓他放在網路上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7706.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7725.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
他會造成的是一種台灣民心的擾動覺得哇這個所謂第五縱隊或是中國的這個大軍已經壓境那如果是真的又如何來避免說他繼續的在網路上面流傳或流竄其實這個是本席其實想要追的問題之一喔那我不知道是部長還是這個參謀長可以來回復 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7731.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7756.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我想就這個部分認知作戰的這個成分高那我們因此確實如委員所講的我們應該對這樣的一個認知作戰我們要進行反制是所以我想我們確實這個征戰部門也好我們相關的這些發言的系統也好我們應該要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7759.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7778.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
快速然後極力的澄清這樣部長我會提到這個部分是比如像這些影片除了我自己搜尋到之外也會有非常多的熱心的台灣的網友他會提供給我們到我的社群平台來那麼是真是假其實我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7778.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7781.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我也必須透過質詢或者是私下來做詢問那為什麼本席會特別的想說我們其實是希望能夠解決問題我提出來的建議就是過去我剛剛為什麼開場的時候提到的是有關於軍人借貸的這種金融陷阱 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7794.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7803.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那麼有沒有可能國防部可以跟數位部或者是跟NCC建立一個相關的就是涉軍事影像流通的這個平台然後去確認或者是說可以有一個通報的一個系統那麼讓民眾如果真的也看到了可以來做提醒跟提示那麼有沒有可能建立這樣因為他們丟給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7819.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7832.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
丟給委員希望能夠好像爆料的方式然後不論是真是假他們也不知道但是他們看到了這樣的隱憂那麼有沒有可能是建組這樣的一個平台提供民眾就像信箱一樣email一樣然後可以讓他們至少可以把這個訊息提供出來而這個訊息的判辯的過程當中可能不只是國防部包括數位部數位發展部NCC等等可以至少是我們可以來掌握的像 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7847.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7861.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
Meta啦或者是Google我們可以請他下架可是如果說是在像抖音或小紅書那麼我們沒有辦法但至少有沒有什麼樣的方式可以來進行一個有效的管理或者是處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7866.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7881.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我們本來就是行政院治安團隊的一員事實上這些東西我們每天都在進行24小時監控以外有任何的違規或滲透行為我們都互相通報及時應處這是我們既有的機制事實上一直每天都在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7882.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7885.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好,本席的意思是說,既然你們有一個機制在這裡,那麼是一個行政院底下的資安團隊,那麼如果當民眾發現了,因為你知道,往海無邊啊,其實就靠你們來搜尋是不夠的,那麼如果有像這種民眾熱心的網友,他們搜尋到了或看到了,他們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7905.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7924.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
提供資訊給我們那與其提供給立委的辦公室不如提供給行政院或相關的主責單位是不是更好那麼有沒有可能去研議就是可以適時的公佈這樣的一個可以算是接受訊息的E-mail信箱或者是一個網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7925.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7948.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那麼這個其實是有助於其實更厲害的這個民間高手啊高手在民間可以提供更大量的相關的資訊跟情資那麼有沒有可能去建立這樣的一個所謂的當然算是個什麼爆料專線或信箱就是收羅這些訊息或資訊那麼可以讓民眾可以提供給我們相關的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7950.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7958.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們每週三都有固定的這樣的會議我們針對委員的意見我們把這個在本週三我們把它提出來看我們是不是有一個研討一個方式這樣執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7960.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7985.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
好因為時間到了當然我也希望就是這個灰色作戰的滲透其實方法是方方面面啦那包括這個國安的部分當然是國安局來做主責但是國防部警政系統包括警政署或是數位部等等我也建議其實要透過一個灰色作戰的跨部會的機制但是現在因為已經有一個國安相關的會議的話那麼至少我希望能夠設立一個這樣的一個機制跟平台讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7988.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7996.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
民間的朋友們他們發現相關的這樣的資訊的時候可以更快速的處理 好嗎好 謝謝委員好 謝謝謝謝楚英委員 部長請回接下來有請鄭天才委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8019.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8048.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
主席有請部長有請部長部長好這裡是台東的治航機場治航機場當年要開闢的時候把原住民的部落遷走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8050.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8074.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
原住民的部落 格格瓦善本來在這個自航機場裡面 自航機場裡面第一個被遷走 移到靠海的這邊叫 巴沙瓦里部落 富岡部落另外一個 格魯魯岸 加魯蘭部落遷到這個 比較上方這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8078.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8093.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
另外就是高高山本部落的名稱移到這邊來,這個十三部落。這麼多年來,我們的部落,我們的鄉親,配合國家的國防來遷移。 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8100.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8126.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
但是完全沒有受到照顧連基本的噪音基本的噪音的防治很難防治,很難防治所以只有靠補償結果連補償措施都沒有原因就是出在這個法例這個我們如果按照這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8128.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8145.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
因為都是用防治然後什麼用什麼補助這個基本上就是補助買那個啦買冷氣機啦基本上是這樣冷氣機其實沒有辦法防治啦那都是假的但是呢冷氣機呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8147.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8173.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
要十年,十一年啊,從八十九年開始才有八十九年開始才有八十九年到九十九年是十一年,一輪次要跟別的里要跟別的里要跟別的里要去輪,這麼多里,台東市這麼多的里要去輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8176.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8203.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以11年第一次是11年第二次也是非常長的一個時間所以這樣在一個情形之下民燕非常非常的不服而且完全無法達到防治其實是真的很難防治的那只好用應該要用補償民航啊民航機場全部都是用補償啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8204.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8227.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
民航機場所以本席啊來修法修噪音管制法第17條在110年1月20號公布施行增加了補償措施補償然後授權國防部要訂定補償的辦法好 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8233.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8253.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
經過了一年為了定這個110年1月20號公佈實行經過了一年國防部才訂出這個軍用機場噪音防治補償經費分配使用辦法很遺憾的在第12條 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8254.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8282.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
竟然規定第一計劃第十二條的第一計劃軍用機場管理單位以本辦法施行後下一個輪次制定一個不合理的規定下一個輪次就是在十年以後啊十年以後才採噪音補償措施啊部長你是學法的這樣的有合法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8284.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8312.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
有沒有違反這個噪音管制法何況它是受害最重的民航機場都是用補償啊 補償就是金額啊 金費啊因為你很難防治嘛根本無法防治嘛你說變成沒有聲音不可能嘛你要符合那個噪音管制法的相關的噪音 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8314.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8339.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
不可能嘛,所以要補償嘛好,部長無法回答,沒有關係事實上確實是不用問他們了我來給他們,我給部長看部長是想要說明一下不用,上次說明過了他有來說明了,好我們來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8341.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8368.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
本席所提的國防部的預算解凍案本席凍結國防部114年編列國防政策規劃及督導稅出預算共總共你的稅出預算是四億三千兩百四億三千兩百多萬本席只有凍結一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8373.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8384.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
100萬,講錯了,100萬本席只有凍結100萬因為我是公務員出身,我不會凍結很多就是希望國防部能夠積極的做 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8388.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8414.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
結果呢你們的意見是什麼本案凍結之經費就為辦理機場噪音防治補助手攜作業費涉及民眾潛意又要造謠了4億多的我只有凍100萬也沒有指定項目啊只針對國防政策規劃及督導啊這個項目很多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8415.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8443.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
哎呀 光法律事務就三千多萬啊對不對凍結那個法律事務三千多萬有什麼關係一百萬而已啊何況我沒有指定啊非得要說涉及民眾潛力這個就是造謠啊而且還說本部持續檢討修訂沒有要訂 沒有要修啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8445.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8464.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那麼簡單,要修這個很簡單啊把那個第一計畫拿掉就好了啊這麼容易的事情啊就是第一項修正而已啊讓它符合讓它符合噪音管制法第17條110年1月20號的 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8468.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8496.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
修正條文委員是不是可以讓我們有個說明我聽過他們說了我只要請部長你要敢騰順受一個部落要開自航機場我們願意你要知道當時的當時的年代說簽就簽啦也沒什麼完全沒有補償啦土地還是變成國有土地後來是我們去爭取才變成私有土地的 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8498.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8524.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
現在只是為了噪音補償你要有設身處事如果你是住在這裡竟然不如民航機場的噪音補償對不對 國防預算這麼多要輪也要輪十年啊光輪那個設施的部分啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8526.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8552.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這什麼民權國家民主國家對不對我是要讓部長第一個你是寫法律這個法就不對了修的你們修的這個辦法就是不對所以不是你我為什麼不請他們說明呢他們就是沒有錢的沒有錢所以只好這樣修啊然後呢居然聽地方政府的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8554.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8571.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
因為地方政府說要怎麼樣這是不對的聽地方政府聽地方政府的意見你要依法行政部長當然我不會堅持要凍結公務員出生也沒辦法但是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8582.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8608.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
你寫法的要指導這些國防部的同仁都不是寫法的以上 謝謝很遺憾我也沒有給我們說明的機會好不好我希望你說明啊 因為你都不說明啊不是 因為你的意思我要說明你就不讓我說明好 請說因為你一直要你們的同仁說我就不 我聽過他們說了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8610.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8613.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
接下來有請王宏威委員上台質詢好謝謝主席我請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8646.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8647.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
針對軍事審判的部分,你說要重新開機。過去大家也都提過,當年你是作為太陽花的律師的時候,你說絕對要不允許軍法來做復辟。 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8667.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8669.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
當然你現在又講說時空環境不一樣了等等之類我想請問一下有關於不管是通敵或泄密或者是有共諜案現在都是在司法院法庭上去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8688.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8712.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那請問一下在您認為說必須要重新開機第一個你是認為現在司法院審理這些相關的案件他們不夠專業還是不夠到位第二個您認為如果成立了這個軍法的法庭是真的可以去保障司法的人權嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8714.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8730.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我想這個問題我之前已經回答多次了就是說現在軍審法並沒有完全廢除這個軍事審判包括在戰時的時候呢要馬上恢復軍事審判那因為從那現在是戰時呢還是準戰爭狀態嗎還是即將進入戰爭狀態呢但是委員跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8737.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8758.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我們要做任何的一個完整的一個準備如果說今天按照現在這個狀況我們從102年廢除了軍事審判制度之後現在所有軍事審判的量能是完全喪失了 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8759.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8780.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那不管我們以後會面對什麼樣子的一個挑戰我們的軍事審判在喪失功能的情況之下要一夕之間要能夠恢復這是一件不可能的事情所以我們認為應該要在平時維持一定的量能所以我們將它限縮在陸海公軍所以你會不會認為當年你說絕對不允許復必因為當年也有可能任何的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8786.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8795.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
也有可能進入戰時啊對不對也有可能能量不足啊而當時你的立場是絕對不允許軍法復辟那我現在要請教部長的是你說現在要做一個準備這個準備是準備進入戰時的一個狀態嗎因為你剛剛講得非常清楚軍法復辟 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8808.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8833.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
法庭從來沒有審判並沒有被廢除但是非常明確的在暫時的時候要恢復軍閥審判所以這個準備是為了作戰而準備的嗎跟委員報告能不能讓我報告兩點就好了第一點任何國軍在做備戰的部分都是要來因應未來可能在台海地區發生的衝突我想這是國防部的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8834.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8850.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這是也是光不存在的價值這是第一點我們第二個我們要恢復的軍事審判當然不是回到過去被人詬病的軍事審判我們要符合這一個政黨法律程序原則跟公平法院設計的 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8852.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8858.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
一個新的軍事審判制度這樣的一個軍事審判制度是一個獨立的因為即便在102年的時候你去問當時的國防部長難道他不做作戰的準備嗎當時102年你去問當時的國防部長難道他說他完全不做作戰的準備嗎第二個你認為現在的軍事法庭一定不像以前的詬病的軍事法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8876.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8901.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
但是大家也知道 恢復軍事法庭之後 包含你還有檢察署吧 對不對所以我們現在 對不對 也就檢察署 還有檢院都在你國防部底下也有很多人會質疑 那這樣能不能夠完全的去保障司法人權所以我要講的就是說 時空環境變了 也許你換了位子 也換了腦袋 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8903.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8905.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
但是我覺得從一個反走過必留下痕跡如果你現在的你的理由是正確的並不代表102年這些理由通通不存在我剛剛就講過嘛就是你在講說你要做作戰準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8919.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8923.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
你五年前十年前所有的國防部長所有的一線的我們的這個關閉弟兄也都在做作戰的準備難道他們當時都是在睡覺嗎不可能所以我覺得現在要恢復軍事審判你們還是要跟社會大眾要有一定的溝通和對話而不是只是說我們現在就是變成是好像反正處處是共諜 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8945.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8949.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
然後我們現役軍人 每個人可能都會泄密 每個人都會通敵我們要講的是在軍中的文化 其實我們最擔心的就是莫名其妙的入人於罪而採取了軍事法庭之後 而使得在他的司法人權沒有受到一定的尊重 最後造成冤獄 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8970.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8975.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
所以我覺得這點是非常非常重要的所以當你講說所謂的重新開機的時候也請你要拜託你們要跟社會要有一定的對話那另外我時間到了但是我還是要特別提到就說在我可以先回答這個問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8989.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9009.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
你可以用書面我不浪費大家時間我簡單回答我們要設軍事懷孕組織法我們要設軍事檢查組織法我們要設獨立的人事審議委員會這是在過去都沒有的那我們所要重新開機的一定會是跟過去所被人所詬病的軍事審判制度是不一樣那我們一定會重視這一個真實的發現跟這個軍機的維護的這個雙重的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9015.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9021.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我希望我們在草案提出來以後我們也會跟社會做一個充分的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9022.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9048.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
這是必須的那另外我花一點點時間就是我們的這個在我們的軍品裡面紅色供應鏈事實上是一直層出不窮不能一方面你在抗中然後動不動就丟人家是中共同路人但是在我們的軍事的相關的軍品裡面一而再 二而三的 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9049.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9057.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
發現紅色供應鏈的滲透這裡面像火箭推進劑的原料這個我也曾經質疑那是在部長擔任部長之前我也曾經質疑現在連戰鬥背心也有然後我們馬文君委員也提到了我們的無人機長期也去使用中國的這些零件這些部分請國防部應該提出相關的辦法而不是三不五時就會報 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9078.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9082.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
出來就報出來有這些相關的這些事件而我們會看到相關單位也沒有什麼懲處啊所以我們的委員才會一直會接到不同的懲請所以這個部分是不是請國防就是請國防部也給我們一個就是書面的一個資料書面的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9101.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9102.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
針對要怎麼樣切斷紅色供應鏈避免紅色供應鏈滲透我們的軍品你們必須要有一個確切的一個做法包含怎麼樣去懲處 怎麼樣會去杜絕 可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9120.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9140.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
簡單兩點 第一點 確定 確確的要防止這個飛鴻的供應鏈一定要在台灣的本土產生出自我的產能而且要將所有的關鍵零組件都在台灣製造我想這個才是根本之道第二個 我們很多事情都是在我們驗收的階段就發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9141.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9166.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
而這些驗收階段發現之後我們就來排除所以呢結論就是說建立一個非紅的供應鏈的根本之道就是以無人機來講我們一定要在建立我們自主的產能這個在平時跟在暫時都是有需要的好我請那個因為我們不要浪費大家時間如果可以的話就書面來提供我們資料好不好謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9169.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9184.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
好 謝謝王委員 部長請回接下來有請馬文君委員上台質詢接下來主席麻煩請部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9193.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9194.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
今天我們大概有非常多的委員在討論不過面相不太一樣我們現在還是針對我們國防部的解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9208.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9212.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
在討論可是我想要特別提出一個案例我想部長可以考量看看為什麼我們常常在指責委員在煽動預算的時候是黨國防預算可是我們卻讓一樣的事情不斷不斷每年在預算執行的過程當中不斷的發生而且耗費浪費我們非常多的一個國防資源我們看軍博館 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9236.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9249.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
軍博館這個部分從原來他本來是要蓋軍事博物館還有國軍英雄館兩個那時候編列預算大概有17億餘元這個預計在110年到112年就要完成的後來國軍英雄館因為他訴訟的關係後來沒有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9262 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9269.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
增加就是要增建這個部分就只有軍博館軍博館從17億餘元變成32億餘元後來又增加到46億2現在又變成54億 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9277.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9294.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
到現在本來一百一十二年要完成的到現在已經一百一十四年了他還沒有辦法完成而且他的過程非常離譜今天這樣的一個建築物老實說他跟很多的博物館或者包括像喜美博物館民間的還包括像台中的這個台中這個叫 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9298.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9308.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
是歌劇院 其實他們都是非常特殊的甚至他的建築體本身其實也不太一樣可是他們的造價 而且他們的騎乘都非常的順暢可是我們的軍博館 剛剛我提到的從17億多到現在變成54億54億多已經增加了三倍 到現在還做不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9322.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9329.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
部長,您知道這是什麼原因嗎?而且更離譜的是在111年的時候,這個機裝承載能力不足,要補強然後在第二次113年,也就是去年1月的時候,它的結構設計強度不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9342.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9362.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
然後在去年8月又發生維木牆、抗風樑柱要補牆這三個變更是國防部甲方要求的嗎部長有掌握這個嗎我想我現在手上沒有相關的這個詳細的資料那我想我會後再跟委員做個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9363.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9372.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
部長我想在這裡談因為這個部分我們從好幾年前我們就已經提出來了這個部分比較離譜的像它第一次變更的時候機裝承載力不足它是什麼狀況廠商蓋到二樓的時候才發現它的樓地板如果放上去因為它下面的柱子太少它沒有辦法承載所以二樓樓地板如果蓋了以後它沒有辦法放東西我們這個叫軍博館 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9391.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9414.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
它二樓如果按照這樣的一個設計還沒有辦法放東西所以我們追加了大概一千三百多萬然後讓它展延三十天然後第二次在去年它的又變更設計一次它是怎麼樣牆面太大它的支撐力不足所以要補牆剛構 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9417.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9424.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
同時在去年第三次的變更維木牆抗風樑柱補牆就是頂樓的玻璃維木它的抗風能力不足又做了樑柱補牆部長您剛剛有聽到我說明的這三次補牆的原因這是什麼專管公司這是什麼設計單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9440.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9444.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
他們現在總共追加了大概又8000多萬我們從剛剛我念的17億還有32億46億到後來54億現在又8000萬而且他展延天數大概300多天幾乎又要一年部長您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9459.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9478.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我的了解是有一部分是行政院認為我們原來的這個因為軍火管的設置不易所以要求我們這個整個量體要增加因此教育不好,你要不要說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9480.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9499.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
委員好 我是志願司司長那之前因為我是在政務辦公室副主任所以對這個案子稍微有點了解一開始17億的那個部分是因為那時候我們設計的大概是兩層樓高這樣一個建築量體那後來在行政院開會的時候行政院覺得在這個地段做這樣子的設計效益不足所以請我們再重新考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9500.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9515.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
所以後來我們到加到了七層樓所以有一個會有一個這樣經費的一個增加而且後來因為是疫情的關係那所以我們幾次的一個招標都沒有很順利那後來也是行政院工程會把當初那時候所有行政院的重大工程沒關係你不要再說免這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9515.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9521.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那個金額的調整那個已經有討論過我現在說的是你三次的變更不會太離譜嗎我們在過去沒有專管公司的時候甚至你怎麼會設計到你的樑柱的支撐力不足你明明蓋到七樓然後它的那個二樓的樓地板蓋下去整個會塌下來這是什麼設計結果你的罰則是多少我們在第一次它的那個集裝承載能力不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9545.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9553.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
要補強的時候我們追加一千三百萬可是他計罰的金額是七十七萬七千元第二次優做結構補強的時候他總共追加一千六百萬展延了天數一百一十六天他罰了兩百二十七萬第三次優做了變更設計因為他的玻璃帷幕太重他沒有辦法承載 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9572.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9575.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
所以我們又追加了5,446萬,展延天數172天,可是它只罰了專管6萬塊在我們又追加了8千萬的情況之下,而且展延了300多天我們對這個相關的,不管設計單位、專管單位,總共罰了300多萬,可是我們又追加了8千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9594.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9619.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
國防部完全任人宰割從我們剛開始說的你設計到七層樓的時候你即時面臨到疫情民間沒有蓋房子嗎我們所有的公共工廠沒有在做嗎可是你可以不斷不斷的增加你是增加倍數耶我們的原物料增加的或者人工的增加其實它都是有一些相關的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9621.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9637.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
都是幾成幾成在增加 可是你是倍數在增加你現在 部長您是法律的專家像這樣子的計法 我們是可以的嗎而且這麼剛好 他計法的金額就剛好是我們的務酬款八千萬你就剛好把務酬款八千萬 也剛好把它用光了 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9642.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9656.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這就是它增加的部分這個到底是營造商跟我們的專管公司設計單位他們協調的結果還是合作的結果他們只被罰了三百多萬可是它增加八千多萬這個問題出在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9662.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9690.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
報告委員其實每次的變更設計在設計建造的部分還有專管的部分我們的確都有計法那因為計法收限於20%的上限所以它那個金額的確可能很難達到一個達到一個預期那這個部分其實我們每個月或是每兩週每週我們都有人在現場跟他們開會也希望能夠補強這個部分那如果將來對國防部的確造成了很多實質上的損失其實我們也不排除最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9690.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9718.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
工程完成以後還有一個求償的一個措施這不是笑話嗎部長今天他已經連續三次的變更設計我說他不斷不斷的加價以外他現在要把我們的務求款剛好八千萬他就剛好設計也是增加八千萬這個部分請調查清楚而且不要任意解凍今天如果可以從十七億多一直增加到五十四億現在又要再增加八千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9719.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9726.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
你的那個 承載力不足 柱子不夠我們本來設計呢 那時候到我們去看的時候說 哇 這是挑高的然後我們上面要像那個 有一些大家看過那個自然博物館上面掛恐龍骨骼的那個部分他要把我們本來現在放在外面的飛機要掛到那個上面 現在能掛嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9740.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9763.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
光是二樓樓地板放上去都會垮下來你還敢掛這樣這麼重的飛機嗎那時候跟我們說你為什麼要挑高因為看起來會比較可能比較宏偉而且它可以四面都沒有那麼多的柱子它的空間很大結果你現在因為承載力不足你增加了很多的柱子那現在它變成什麼樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9764.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9769.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個部分我們要求國防部一定要徹查尤其這個部分我們對廠商完全沒有沒有辦法去計法以外總共罰300萬可是我們讓他不斷不斷的增加這麼高的預算而且我們用的很多的一大部分的錢是基金基金是用了就沒了結果你讓他這樣子把錢花掉部長這個部分你們會有什麼樣的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9792.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9814.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我想我會下去之後我會進行一個徹底的了解好不好好這個部分我們要求要有一個做法然後不要再把那個解凍案送出來你如果沒有一個解決的方案之前浪費民脂民膏然後還可以一直叫我們解凍這樣完全沒有辦法對國人交代那今天也有委員在 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9816.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9831.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
詢問我們國防部所屬院校今年招生的狀況女生的錄取率增高非常多那本席請國防部提供近八年國軍各基礎院校各年度招生數錄取數以及醫生二後他的留營數 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9833.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9855.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
就是你除了這些錄取人數以外一年級升二年級以後他留下來繼續念的到底有多少人數包括三軍我們的三軍的一個三軍院校國防大學各學院還有空軍航院技術學院陸軍專科學校等等請提供相關的數據資料給委員會好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9863.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9867.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
好 謝謝馬委員 部長請回接下來有請陳冠廷委員上台質詢我們請部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9890.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9905.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
部長好,部長我最近常看到在各個媒體裡面有提到說,如果是在衝突的時候,那會陷入一個沒有秩序的狀況,那他們就要拿著他們被配發的武器,要去做什麼事或做什麼事。 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9906.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9920.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我想藉由這個質詢的平台要跟大家說如果有發生武力衝突的時候我們的司法制度照樣運行我們的社會制度一樣在運行我們要盡所有的可能性確保說在衝突的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9922.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9949.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
非軍事的地方能夠照往常一樣有秩序在衝突期間的所有的罪行會被追訴在衝突期間的所有罪行會被起訴也會受到懲治那在軍人的部分因為我們已經有新的這個軍法的制度引進所以包含軍禁還有所有的這些秩序都能夠被有效的維持部長我這樣子的理解對不對呃我想呃我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9952.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9978.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這是一個韌性這是一個韌性我們希望能夠保有這樣的一個韌性這是我們的目標我相信我們也一定會做到就像烏克蘭一樣儘管面臨俄羅斯的這樣子大他們數倍的攻擊襲擊但他們國內的社會秩序一樣穩定所有的刑事責任不會因為在戰爭之中就會被忘記那一樣會被追溯 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9978.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9995.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那我相信我們台灣未來也有這樣的韌性所以如果有國人同胞有這樣的擔憂的話那我可以在這邊跟大家說包含國防部包含內政部包含我們的所有司法單位只要在衝突的期間的所有事情都一樣會被追究那是第一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9995.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10021.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那第二部分我想要針對G-SOMIA或者是情報相關的部分來請教一下部長部長您知道現在行政院在5月29號大概會把擴大特殊查核的部分應該會有出爐我認為這是我們從去年開始不斷在強調安全核可的這一個擴大範圍也好或者是針對這個安全的部分的討論的一個很好的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10023.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10038.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
應該說一個回饋就是說這一年半來那我們希望說至少是在安全背景查核上面那行政院總算也是第一個把這樣子的擴大那我想請教一下為什麼講G-SOMIA的部分是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10039.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10057.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
日非兩國在今年大家看到在這個抗中的部分有啟動這個軍事情報分享的協商我想請教部長我們有沒有可能跟日本或者是跟菲律賓來有類似這樣子的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10061.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10086.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我只能夠說我們有這樣的期待那至於詳細的情況我想不適宜在公開的場合做一個說明那怎麼樣才可以滿足這樣子的期待我想首先反求諸己就是說我們國家內部的安全的這個自己的保密或者是防諜的狀況也沒有辦法符合情報交換的基準 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10087.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10104.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
不然的話我們得到最新的資訊假如也被洩露出去的話那我們就不但沒有資格進入G15秒甚至可能會傷害到我們的盟邦所以為什麼我們說我們的安全核可的這個機制它必須是要盡快來做一個有一個統一的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10105.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10128.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那之前我有請教過部長說因為我們現在在各個不同的政府部門因為如果要統一的規範的話那至少要有一個基準的單位那法務部廉政署的政風室在各個的部門不管的哪一個行政機關基本上都是他們的存在是不是由這個廉政署下轄的這些政風室來去跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10129.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10153.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
每一個單位因為每一個單位他有自己知道說他會接觸什麼樣的密等哪些東西是敏感的來去做一個完整的匡列也就是說有法務部做匡列會不會是一個未來做一個統一標準的一個好的開始因為部長你是有法律專精所以想請教你覺得這是不是一個好的辦法但國安局他沒有辦法像這個法務部一樣有這麼綿密的這個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10156.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10182.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我想有關於跟其他國家從事任何的這樣子的一些交流都涉及到三個層面,一個就是人員的安全查核第二個是治安的等級的要求第三個呢,就是雙方的通聯機制要有一個機密的保持這個三個部分,我想我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10185.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10197.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
都會努力來達成這樣子的一個水平然後來從事這樣子的一個跟其他國家從事相關的一些交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10200.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10216.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
部長我剛剛問說保護部、廉政署、陣容室在各個行政機關的這個部分是不是由他們做匡列這個部分您覺得怎麼樣因為畢竟部長有法律的專才那以及當過國安會的秘書長對整體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10218.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10234.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我們現在講的一個是一個機構institution我們希望創造一個有機構性的一個方式來去匡列到底哪些人需要被委員那意思是說由他們做一個有關安全查核的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10235.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10256.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
框架嗎 還是 框裂就是哪些人因為他會接觸到密等他必須要被框裂那這方面是跟那一個所屬機關因為你說用人機關嘛是有在平行的聯繫因為他們就在那一個局處啊所以是不是由他們跟用人的機關來去做框裂這樣是不是就符合兩方面所需 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10257.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10281.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我想就行政院的部分有誰來做這樣子的一個哪些人應該要列入或哪些應該要從事怎麼樣的一個查核包括特殊查核或者是一般的查核等等這些我想我們會依照行政院的要求來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10283.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10307.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
OK 好 部長沒有回答我的問題不過沒有關係我想這也 我下次再問所屬機關好了 我去問法務部可能會比較有因為我的了解就是說現在在做這個部分在行政部門是這個法務部的調查局在做那我的了解是我之所以會問這個問題是因為我們有跟行政院討論那他們說或許是可以從法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10309.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10329.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
就是廉政署下面的政公司去做一個初步的開始那我今天問部長不是說要問到誰我只想說因為你過去有法律的經驗還有國安會秘書長你可能可以重覽全部的不同的單位所以我才說你覺得這個建議是好還是不好法務部的廉政署也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10331.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10346.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
或者甚至到法務部政府,我覺得法務部廉政署應該就可以,他可以做一個框架性的要求但實際執行的層面,如果要到法務部的調查局的話,那法務部調查局的能量必須要做大幅的擴充 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10348.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10377.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
匡列跟執行是兩個不一樣的事情所以我現在講的是要執行當然部長你說要可能要做大幅度的擴充沒辦法就是我們現在面臨的困境嘛所以說很多人都會說你看哪邊又有供點可是不是啊就是表示說我們現在有機制可以抓到這些人那我們現在要做的就是說除了有機制抓到這些人之後我們制度化的讓我們能夠把這些人這個神之以法的可能性再增到最高嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10377.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10397.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
因為我們現在面臨的威脅跟十年前又不一樣了所以我們才講到這件事情不過沒關係我的時間已經用完了那我還是希望說部長你那邊如果有建議的話我們這邊也想要做一個統整就是說這樣的方式是好的嗎還是你們有不同的意見那我們把它匡列進來我們來想一個更好的方式好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10397.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10410.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
因為我們國防部本身已經有制定就是說有關涉密的一個程度有不同的查核班而不是以階級所以我想我們的意見可以提供給行政院做一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10411.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10428.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
好因為我現在看到的是它是擴大啦擴大可是它那個擴大的理由只是為了擴大而擴大的話那有點可惜那包含它所知道的資訊跟它要用的資訊跟用人單位的資訊做一個整合嘛就是除了鎖鑰匙跟你需不需要在那個地點這個我 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10430.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10448.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
沒關係我們之後再來討論本來我還是想要做我們是依照美方相關的做法來律定這個我們現在相關的辦法那我們一定會提供給行政院做參考很好那就直接我認為我們不需要重新發明輪值對方怎麼做我們可以直接採信不然的話我們怎麼加入這些其他的情報的存入 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10449.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10465.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
用一樣的方式就好了我們就不用重新再搭配也是可以的就直接使用這樣的方式那這樣的話我們就不用在各種不同的狀況然後在各個不同的人員上面又同時試行不同的狀況我覺得這樣不一定好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10468.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10489.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
好 謝謝冠廷委員 部長請回接下來有請蘇清泉委員上台質詢蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在那已登記質詢的委員出不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束那本日會議有林益君委員跟蘇清泉委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10491.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10516.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
委員書面及口頭諮詢為其答覆的部分要求補充資料者再請國防部提供有約定期限者就從其鎖定我們接下來要進行討論事項今天有49案討論事項第一項及第二項處理國防部主管的預算凍結提出專案報告並經同意後 使得動之有兩案就是剛剛那兩案 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10516.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10542.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
國防部剛才已作出專案報告請問各位委員是否同意解凍同意齁好那同意動之那我們就提報院會那接下來有剩下的有47案齁就是這個國防部主管的預算凍結案中提出書面報告並經同意後使得動之共47案國防部也將書面報告送交本會請問各位委員是否同意解凍同意齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10545.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10549.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
好 均同意動之那我們就提報院會本日會議到此結束散會 |